AMEN

Very nice!!

Ms. Rice:

Thank you for the beautiful testimony. I appreciate your courage to be politically incorrect by being open about your new life in Christ.

Peace and grace to you.

Ms. Rice:

Thank you for the beautiful testimony. I appreciate your courage to be politically incorrect by being open about your new life in Christ.

Peace and grace to you.

I just read your statement. As a former fan of your vampire novels who has also returned to faith in the Trinity I want to thank you for the clarity of your writing and the bedrock solid expression of your faith.

Hello Anne,

As you and I have discussed.....you were chosen to tell a story. You have the third book to write.
I'm trusting in you....
Yes without trust in God we have nothing. I have heard those who condemn me for praying to a mystical "Sky Fairy". Im trusting God to believe in me as much as I believe in him. I cannot prove he exists to anyone. Yet I know with every fiber of my being that God is all. I will speak of you in my prayers. Love, Lisa

a wonderful testimony. to God be the Glory.

Memnoch the Devil was a great read and wonderful insight into the nature of Good and Evil and the Great Lie that is the Triumverant of the Cult of Abraham.

I shall miss your literary contributions because while I do read straight up fiction, I don't read religious propaganda.

You have had much pain in your life. I'm sorry you took the road of superstition and the warm blanket of comforting lies to ease that pain. May you find the road to Enlightenment lies ahead when you put down the Blanket!

Ms. Rice:

If you believe in Jesus Christ, that's fine and dandy but why would you want to advertise it? I believe in the strict separation of church and state. It's healthy in a secular society. Sometimes I think that there is more separation of "church" and state in India than it is here in the US where all the politicians are busy portraying themselves as more Christian than the other. Who cares? In a secular society, we the voters only care whether a politician can deliver the goods, make good on his/her promises. Religion should be strictly a private matter.

Hypocritical to say anti-God books are on the bestsellers list consiering you wrote the vampire chronicles. I hate that you're agaiinst fanfic. I love your books. I love your writing. I'm heartbroken that there will be no more Lestat. But...I am happy for you. I'm happy you found god simply because I love your writing and I wish you joy in everything you do.

Don’t ever succumb to the fear that evil is winning in this world, no matter how bad things may appear. Don’t ever succumb to the fear that He does not witness our struggles, that He is not with every single soul.

I love this seriously. But that doesn't change my opinion on your fanfic policies at all. I think you're a jerk to ban fanfic, but I still love your books.

Consciousness extends infinitely. Consciousness creates the 'material' world and the senses merely do the work of consciousness to help create the illusion of materiality. The Laws and theorems of science in general and physics in particular are created by consciousness - no wonder they work so well! Consciousness is the only intelligence to be found, and takes many forms - both large and small. Until consciousness knows itself, it will always assume that the illusion of an exterior world is true - made and controlled by exterior forces.

Self-knowledge is merely the discovery of the 'nothingness' and 'everythingness' of pure consciousness.

Don’t ever succumb to the fear that evil is winning in this world, no matter how bad things may appear. Don’t ever succumb to the fear that He does not witness our struggles, that He is not with every single soul.

note;
Dear Anne Rice,
Thant you for this master piece. I just want inform you that I have copied this information to my page in gospelity.
Dim

Is it scientifically possible that a thing can build something more intelligent than itself? The answer is a big NO.

The only reason why human DNA can transform into a more intelligent human BRAIN is because the transfomation is guided by someone more intelligent. Nothing can create something more intelligent than itself and that's a fact.

There MUST be a MAKER in between. That is science and most of all, that is COMMON SENSE.

Those who say there is no Creator are fools and devoid of common sense.

Is it scientifically possible that a thing can build something more intelligent than itself? The answer is a big NO.

Wonderful article Anne. Thanks for your courage in writing about your faith and the God we love. May His Church and the Body of Christ be lifted up.

To all on this post: blessings and peace to you.

One man's God is another man's Quantum Vacuum.

The idea of God is more comforting with just a touch of the human clinging to the concept.

The idea of the Quantum Vacuum (Nuether = Zero Point Field) as the source of all things is far more likely to be established as a scientific reality in the future.

Science cannot ground its own pressupositions. Its equation of truth with verification is not itself verifiable. Science says: all knowledge claims must be brought before the bar of reason (which, in this case means material verifiability). But if we were to bring this very demand before the bar of material verifiability we would find no such justification. The demand for verifiability is not verifiable. Thus, science is an act of faith: one chooses to believe in this "principle of all principles". Of course the problem is not with science itself, which certainly has its uses. The problem is in the attempt to totalize science's version of truth and knowledge by applying that version to all other regions of existence.

Scientific knowledge is a highly specialized and abstract form of knowledge that is derived from a more originary encounter with the with the concrete world in which we live. Verifiable knowledge is one (quite limited) type of knowledge based on a more fundamental type of truth, namely the truth that happens in our everyday existence when we are confronted with things that matter to us. We do not live scientifically. We live passionately or lethargically, joyfully or anxiously. This concrete life is not composed of neutral "facts" (although we can turn our attention to aspects of this life and view them with dispassionate neutrality--as scientific facts or data) but as a vibrant and meaningful context within which we live our lives.

This concrete context includes all those aspects of life that matter most to us: our relationships to family, friends, beauty, health (a flourishing existence), etc. And it is in this prior context, prior, that is, to the abstract constructs of the natural sciences, that truth first shows itself. Here truth is not verification or adequation (the view that truth is defined as the correct correspondence between a mental proposition and an external state of affairs), but rather the event in which the significance of life becomes manifest to a particular self--those moments, for example, when the weight of the profundity of existence manifests itself in one's life.

Truth then, is first significance, and only secondarilly scientific verification. Rice is fully within her rights as an existing person to articulate what was for her (apparently) a very real experience of truth, an experience moreover, that is (ontologically) prior to--and which forms the ground for--scientifically ascertained truth. To discredit her account because it doesn't "measure up" to a certain (derivative) standard of truth is dogmatic to the hightest degree.

The superstitious spiderman2 calls everything and everybody ignorant who does not follow his particular brand of superstition. It is the most blatant sign of incurable ignorance. Stupidity is the "faithful" conviction and promise to refuse to learn anything new.
Getting rid of this kind of superstitious "knowledge" is a brand of "ignorance" everybody can be proud of: Ignorance of ignorance is a noble cause.

Sp. shows so embarrassingly little knowledge of natural science, that one has the hunch all he reads are the emanations coming out of the particularly funny fundamentalists from Seattle.

We can imagine a state of affairs without the "god" proxy. "God" is a proxy concept for ignorance, adapting to change through history (Zeus does not throw a lightning anymore, the earth ceased to be flat.).

Now, in this "godless" state of affairs, anybody easily could come up with a religious construct: There is not a single thing or event in the universe that could not be attributed to "god", once the concept embraces everything. Everything is everything. God is everything (all-knowing, almighty). Everything is god. With this simple "religious" tautology mindset, you can start killing your neighbors, especially those who are intelligent enough to know a tautology when they see one, who honestly try to explain the incredible complexity of the real world.

Spiderman2 (the alias already shows his megalomania, Harry Potter illusionism, "faith", lol!) and his ilk are the real obstacle of the development (aka evolution) of humanity they deny. They will go extinct, though, even if it takes some time. Reality, no matter how mysterious and full of wonder it may be, cannot in the long run be subdued by "faith", aka as ignorance, opposition to knowledge ("credo quia absurdum", Tertullian).

aul H:
There should be little doubt that strong belief is comforting and that it can generate great happiness and contentment. It would be logical to find that the average child who believes in Santa Claus is happier about the experience of Christmas than one who doesn’t. This is not meant as a trivialization of religion, by the way. Religion is far from trivial, but belief in it or in Santa means little. There is nothing that occurs that can only be explained by religion.

The basic foundation of religion is that there is a god who creates the world – its matter, energy, and laws of physics and chemistry. This same god steps in at times to subvert these laws. Atoms fail to combine as they normally would or items are not subject to gravity for some period of time. If a god does not go outside these physical laws, there is no real purpose for this god. The world would be in the equivalent of cruise control mode. There is nothing, however, to show that it isn’t.

Anne Rice exhibits a level of desperation that is frightening. We all like to feel that someone is watching over us; most of us have such a person when we are infants. The need or desire remains as we grow older. Wanting it to be so doesn’t make it so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul H.
"Wanting it to be so doesn’t make it so."

Deosn't make it not so either.

There should be little doubt that strong belief is comforting and that it can generate great happiness and contentment. It would be logical to find that the average child who believes in Santa Claus is happier about the experience of Christmas than one who doesn’t. This is not meant as a trivialization of religion, by the way. Religion is far from trivial, but belief in it or in Santa means little. There is nothing that occurs that can only be explained by religion.

The basic foundation of religion is that there is a god who creates the world – its matter, energy, and laws of physics and chemistry. This same god steps in at times to subvert these laws. Atoms fail to combine as they normally would or items are not subject to gravity for some period of time. If a god does not go outside these physical laws, there is no real purpose for this god. The world would be in the equivalent of cruise control mode. There is nothing, however, to show that it isn’t.

Anne Rice exhibits a level of desperation that is frightening. We all like to feel that someone is watching over us; most of us have such a person when we are infants. The need or desire remains as we grow older. Wanting it to be so doesn’t make it so.

Luv2Bblonde:

Let's see...

Straw man...check.

Mis-representation....check.

Unwarranted assumption....check

Imaginary abuse...check

Answers to any pertinent questions...not so much

OK then.

Adios

Neal,
As I already explained to you & confirmed, it is my perogative to change my screen, end of story.

Secondly, I, as many others do, will choose what questions to respond too; of which I am sure you do the same.

Lastly, perhaps you do not see your demanding tone in your post that come off as being "demeaning, condeseding, self-righteous, & "my way or the highway" attitude."

As far as cursings you have no room to talk. Your derorgorty statements to me & others surpass any emotional distress that I have ever inflected, if any.

Let's get one thing straight you do not dictate to me when I should stop posting on any public forum.

I bet that you are the type that everytime your girlfriend makes you angry you "threw" her out by telling her to leave because that is your favorite line everytime I upset you.

Doesn't say much about your ability to effectively resolve personal conflicts. But hey I don't want argue with you. I will apoligize and hope that you accept my apology and move on from here.

Take care, friend

Luv2Bblonde:

Neal:--“Are you posting under different user names? It's your prerogative, but it makes things confusing."

Luv2Bblonde:--"If it is my prerogative then why mention it?"

I *asked* because I wasn't sure if you were or not. The reason I brought it up can be found in the second part of the sentence: because "it makes things confusing."

Luv2Bblonde:--"Not dishonest in any way and not trying to deceive anyone, I readily admitted when asked that yes I use different screen names."

Me: --"As if you do not post under other scene names, give me a break! Talk about self-righteous you are it."

As you can see, you did not readily admit to any such thing. When asked, you responded by falsely accusing me of the same thing.

-----

If anyone cares to review this thread (and I certainly couldn't blame them if they didn't) they would see a pattern of me and others asking questions about statements you've made regarding DNA, science in general and the Bible. They would also see you either, (a) completely ignoring the questions, or (b) making other statements which actually refute your own positions, without even realizing it, or (c) diverting the discussion entirely by accusing myself and others of being "mean", or "god haters", for even asking the questions, or (d) snapping in a blizzard of vulgarities.

In view of your demonstrated tactics, I would submit that any "belittling" and "demeaning" which may have been done has been completely self-inflicted.

If you cannot support your statements any better than you have, and cannot tolerate criticism of them, perhaps you should consider not exposing them to a public forum.

Be careful what you ask for.

I couldn't agree more Anne. What a great reminder to read this too. There are times when I get frustrated "with People"....and it's a good reminder to "let it go and let God."

Thank you. :)
Glenda

Neal, “Are you posting under different user names? It's your prerogative, but it makes things confusing. The comment I made to Tommy O had nothing to do with you in particular. This thread does not revolve around you.” March 28, 2008 12:26 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~

If it is my prerogative then why mention it? After all did you think that I would suddenly be a good person when all the while you have done nothing but demean and belittle me? Of course not, your goal like always has been to make me look bad.

There is an old saying when men engage in conversation with a woman will “read between the lines.” Well that should not be done because the woman might not be thinking or feeling at all what the man thinks she is.

Being kind, nice, and paying someone a compliment in no way says “I am interested in you intimately and want you.”

I ran into an acquaintance last night and it appears that he perceives that I was interested in him on an intimate level, that couldn’t be further from the truth. I thought that a friendship was developing based on some personal things that have we had shared but nothing more.

I believe that where this person’s impression came from was because he unknowingly helped me through a difficult time by acting kind and saying things with a positive approach, which helped me put things together in my mind. I complimented him on his approached with great thankfulness and was completely unaware that he would take it as a "I want you" type of indication.

Patrick, unless a person states, “I am interested in you intimately and want you,” don’t assume anything. The best way to know if what you are thinking is on target is to always ask the person, never assume what a person is thinking or feeling.

Asking for clarification is the best medicine; assumptions are like this in most cases “things are not always what they appear to be.”

Neal, things are not always what they appear, stop assuming what I mean or what I am thinking. My screen name sometimes changes because I am state my feelings about what I am commenting on, such as "My heart is so sad" was based on the little girls death.

Not dishonest in any way and not trying to deceive anyone, I readily admitted when asked that yes I use different screen names.

u r a horemonger

Gad:

Thanks for your comments. The funny thing is I was even trying to be nicer than you!

Ever notice that when the questions get tough everyone suddenly has "plans for the evening" or "important matters to attend to"?

Speaking of which, it's way past my nap time...

Aloha

To whoever you are now:

I've used the same user name for months, none other.

You are wise to leave the field.

Neal:

I admire your efforts, but I do believe you have now been cursed at more then me........

Also using different screen names is dishonest, I've never done it, but I especially love how when the righteous get caught doing it they claim it is justified because the bad guys do it........

Neal, ""KMA, m/f'r"

Are you posting under different user names? It's your prerogative, but it makes things confusing. The comment I made to Tommy O had nothing to do with you in particular. This thread does not revolve around you.

Since I began this discussion I've politely asked questions and had them ignored, misdirected, overwhelmed by strawmen or interpreted as "attacks". You've accused everyone who has disagreed with you of being, "rude", "mean", "hateful pagans", "god haters" or Satan's little helpers. Are you the only one allowed to hurl vulgarities and ad homs?

In all fairness, and purely out of a sense of compassion, I feel obligated to inform you that your invective, hand-waving, self-righteousness and simple-minded responses are quickly contributing to you replacing Spiderman2 as "the atheists' best friend". You really aren't doing your team any favors."
??????????????

As if you do not post under other scene names, give me a break! Talk about self-righteous you are it. All you want to do is argue, but know this if you continuall treat someone with disrespect it will come back on you. Consider my "slur" your just due; overdue just due!

Funny, you never seem to mention my kindness and consideration in any of my post and that is becuse you alway look for fault. Knock yourself out, I have plans tonight and I am not going to let you ruin them.

This conversation is over, period.

Have a good evening.

My heart is so sick and sad:

--"That is not trusting in the Lord nor is it Christianity."

If it isn't Christianity, why are you embarrassed "as a Christian"? It seems as though any particular Christian sect can always point fingers at any one of the other numerous sects and claim *they* aren't *real* Christians. These people could say the same about you. How do we know who is correct if you all claim to believe in Jesus and all use the same holy book to justify their beliefs?

--"God can and will use anything and anyone to bring about healing or meeting the need of those who trust in him."

How do you explain the fact that while this girl was suffering for her parents' beliefs there were lots of "god haters" being cured of worse?

--"The parents believed in a false doctrine which stems from taking scripture out of context."

"Amen, I say to you, if you have faith and do not waver, not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea', it will be done. Whatever you ask for in prayer and faith, you shall receive." (Matt. 21:22).

Was this passage taken out of context? Is it false? What does it really mean? Why should I trust your interpretation?

--"The parents were wrong, wrong, wrong and failed to protect their child entrusted to them by God."

If one believes that God created everything, including diabetes, it seems as though these parents are actually guilty of not protecting their child from God.

Luv2Bblonde, again :

--"YOU DO NOT DICTATE TO ME WHERE AND WHEN I SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT POST, GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!

KMA, m/f'r"

Are you posting under different user names? It's your prerogative, but it makes things confusing. The comment I made to Tommy O had nothing to do with you in particular. This thread does not revolve around you.

Since I began this discussion I've politely asked questions and had them ignored, misdirected, overwhelmed by strawmen or interpreted as "attacks". You've accused everyone who has disagreed with you of being, "rude", "mean", "hateful pagans", "god haters" or Satan's little helpers. Are you the only one allowed to hurl vulgarities and ad homs?

In all fairness, and purely out of a sense of compassion, I feel obligated to inform you that your invective, hand-waving, self-righteousness and simple-minded responses are quickly contributing to you replacing Spiderman2 as "the atheists' best friend". You really aren't doing your team any favors.

Notice the common theme here of the faithful, they are not to be criticized! But more then that, they are not to criticized by the likes of those who don't believe as they do. And those who do are mean and despicable. Which is to say that they know what they believe is right and righteous and anyone who thinks differently is lowly and beneath them.

So sick and sad:
I'll refer you to my original post for which I was lambasted by spiderman2.

I am willing to be honest enough to say I dont know if god exists or not. You should be honest enough to admit the same. Nobody knows, thats why we are here debating your biblical semantics. Anne Rice in a passing reference was starting to say the same. Your belief is faith. Faith = belief in something you do not know to be true. Its not a jab at religion, its just fact.

If we can start at this point, I am happy. It seems a reasonable place to start a discussion where both parties are willing to take a realistic stance and then use logic, reason and evidence beyond mere scripture to enter a dialogue.

My concern is people that can't relate to anything beyond the bible. Frankly, its scary and sad. Its just a book. Take what you need from it, but keep it in perspective.

"2008-03-27, WESTON, Wis. (AP) — Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor."

I'm sure they used their vast "medical and scientific knowledge" to determine that prayer was the best treatment option.......

In any case if god wouldn't keep people who have them selfs beat and nailed to a cross to show their love for him from getting an infection why would he help selfish people praying for their own needs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7305522.stm

With apologies to Tommy O whose poignant post deserved to be the final word in this long thread.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

YOU DO NOT DICTATE TO ME WHERE AND WHEN I SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT POST, GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!

KMA, m/f'r

My heart is so sick and sad: "You can't have it both ways, either he exists and intervenes or he doesn't. How stupid is that family. That is faith in it's most pathetic form, despite their child dying before their eyes, they still believed an as yet unproven deity could save it.That is a fair example that god doesn't exist and prayer is no more than a placebo. I'll take faith in medicine and science anyday."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bottom line is this, you do what you want and so will I. I do not need your direction to know what I believe in as truth.

It is apparent to me that you do not know scripture at all to know that people can take it out of context and misapply or misuse it. Hell, even Satan quotes and believes scripture, he knows his end. His goal is to lead as many people to hell as possible in the end and it seems that he has succeeded with misleading you.

God chooses when to intervene, not man chooses when God should intervene, get it right.

You have no compassion and are mean-spirited to the core. I want nothing to do with your kind. How anyone can find fault and criticize my post of compassion for the 11 year old child is beyond me.

I regret even posting again and trusting that you could or would be civil, but I see that I was wrong. Keep your forums to communicate at a distance because that is all you know.

All I did was give the opportunity to you to once again demean, belittle, and criticize my efforts to communicate in a civil, compassionate way. And all you have done is drive me away.

You do not know how to communicate effectively and you harbor such hatred that it extends and seeps over to anyone that says they care.

"I believe in Jesus Christ."

We know more about the physical appearance of Socrates, the ancient Greek philosopher (469-399bc), than that of Jesus Christ of which the Bible says nothing.

Jesus is "the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, the God Man who came to earth, born as a tiny baby and then lived over thirty years in our midst" and nobody can remember what he looked like.

Imagine Dragnet's Joe Friday questioning The Apostles: "Did you get a good look at the guy?"

How can u be spiderman2 if you dont believe in evolution?

My heart is so sick and sad:

You can't have it both ways, either he exists and intervenes or he doesn't.

How stupid is that family. That is faith in it's most pathetic form, despite their child dying before their eyes, they still believed an as yet unproven deity could save it.

That is a fair example that god doesn't exist and prayer is no more than a placebo.

I'll take faith in medicine and science anyday.

My heart is sick and so sad:

It seems like the epitome of "trust in the Lord" to me. You seem to be saying: Trust in the Lord, but not too much.

Trust in the Lord

2008-03-27, WESTON, Wis. (AP) — Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

~~~~~~~~~~

That is not trusting in the Lord nor is it Christianity. Nothing in the bible supports parents eluding their God given responsibility to ensure their child's safety.

Yes Christians pray for healing but if the healing doesn't come in the fashion that you expect then it is time to take another course of action.

God also gave us common sense and we as Christians are supposed to use it. Go to God first in prayer, if there is time, not in the case of an emergency, then look for God's remedy. God can and will use anything and anyone to bring about healing or meeting the need of those who trust in him.

The little girl must have been terrified and lost all faith and trust in a God she was told would be there for her. It is understandable that children who were raised in families like this have difficulty trusting God, and rightfully so.

Even God as our heavenly father set an example of "leaving" his children that were safe and secure to venture out and seek his children that were lost in order to save them.

This story embarrasses me as a Christian. The parents believed in a false doctrine which stems from taking scripture out of context. What weak-minded parents. The parents were wrong, wrong, wrong and failed to protect their child entrusted to them by God.

Luv2Bblonde:

--"Please note that definition 'a' states , 'The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena,' this does not mean that science is based on 'firm empirical evidence...'"

With all due respect...nonsense. Perhaps you're thinking of Creationism? Creationism isn't science. Creationism is pseudo-science. Feelings, personal revelation and the authority of holy books are not regarded as evidence in real science.

--"I find it amazing that God created things in nature to treat medical conditions and provide healing."

Have you ever wondered why an intentional god also created lots of other things that can kill humans at the drop of a hat? Have you ever wondered why an intentional god didn't just create humans to be immune from disease and without medical conditions in the first place?

(With apologies to Tommy O whose poignant post deserved to be the final word in this long thread.)

Trust in the Lord

2008-03-27, WESTON, Wis. (AP) — Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

Perspecttive, "However, science is based on firm empirical evidence as it must be....religion abides in a different realm altogether at present, so I expect we will all be having discussions and disagreements for some time to come!!"

~~~~~~~~~~

According to American Heritage dictionary the following is the definition of science,

a.The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

b.Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.

c.Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

(2)Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.

(3)An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.

(4)Knowledge, especially that gained through experience

Please note that definition “a” states , “The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena,” this does not mean that science is based on “firm empirical evidence” in fact science is often based on many observations and experiential investigations before it becomes item (2) 4, “Knowledge, especially gained through experience,” or as you called it “firm empirical evidence.”

Forgive me if I do not understand you correctly. It is not my intention to demean you or your reasoning or belief in any way. If fact, you are one of the most reasonable people that I have had any intellectual conversations with. I am a Christian that believes in God, Christ, and the Bible, but that does not mean that I do not give credence to the truth of science or the power of nature to develop into scientific use.

I find it amazing that God created things in nature to treat medical conditions and provide healing. In Brazil there is a plant with a milkish content in the stalk that willl treat the virus that causes warts. Many countries do not use medicine like the US does but I believe in the use of both. I completely understand that not all people believe as I do and am ok with it.
I believe that it is a personal choice that each individual must make.

I don’t like getting criticized when I state my beliefs or being “attacked” verbally for not believing in someone’s else’s way. I give you space to believe what you want to believe and I expect the same respect in return, fair enough?

nice talking to u, take care

LUV2BBLONDE -

Thanks for your comments. While I'm not religious, I'm not a materialist in the strict sense of the work either. I think we need to acquaint ourselves with as much science as possible, but of course this is pretty limited for non-scientists - which includes most of us. On the other hand, sometimes science doesn't see the forest for the trees either. Oftentimes their specialized areas of research are consuming to the point of excluding other points of view.

I've studied religion formally and informally since the 1960's and various mystical traditions in particular - mystics tend to know what they know, but find it difficult to share these 'spiritual' discoveries with others.

In the end (and in my opinion) mysticism and the meditative arts and the deep personal knowledge that can come with the territory is the true and 'essential' form of religion to pursue, if one wants real gnosis, or knowledge of the numinal or spiritual kind.

This is why I find certain schools of Buddhism a good fit with the discoveries of quantum physics as a method of unraveling the 'hidden' mysteries of our only apparently material world. I think religion can benefit from science, and occasionally, the reverse is also true.

However, science is based on firm empirical evidence as it must be....religion abides in a different realm altogether at present, so I expect we will all be having discussions and disagreements for some time to come!!

best to you -

Amen!

Gad, "Speaking of DNA, I am throughly convinced that if Luv2Bblonde were to mate with Spiderman2 their offspring would be the Anti-Christ, tail and all!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your comment was uncalled for and despicable to say the least. However, it just shows the low caliber of a person you are.

I wouldn't bother asking for an apology, which you owe me because "egocentric imbeciles" don't give them.

Luv2Bblonde:

"Wasn't wrapped up at all, all my belief and opinion based on medical and scientific knowledge which obviously you lack severely."

No, thank you for making my day! LOL! "medical and scientific knowledge" LOL!.....LOL!

Speaking of DNA, I am throughly convinced that if Luv2Bblonde were to mate with Spiderman2 their offspring would be the Anti-Christ, tail and all!

Anne,

This is wonderful. I think a couple of people missed your point. Which makes it all the more poignant: our trust is not in the cacophony of voices around us.

A commentary from Chuck Swindoll on Proverbs 1 says:
"In a loud, volatile world marked by surface issues and shallow thoughts, let's commit not to add to it. As we spend time alone with God, we will gain a new respect for His wisdom and a new resolve to live by it."

May the Lord bless you as you seek His wisdom and trust Him to "handle how and when he (will approach) every soul."

Gad, "To be fair to me, Luv2Bblonde was severing up a big steaming pile of BS and acts as if it is beyond reproach because it was wrapped in the love of god. "scientific studies" that prove DNA has never changed, LOL! God is magic, god doesn't need no stinking science, stop trying to use science to disprove science to prove god! Stop the madness and just say god is magic and be done with it all!"

~~~~~~~~~~~
My right to do so, don't like, too bad. But it made my day that my opinion "irritates" you! Thanks for the laugh!

Wasn't wrapped up at all, all my belief and opinion based on medical and scientific knowledge which obviously you lack severely.

FYI God created the science and he doesn't have to prove anything to you or anyone. I can assure you that he is quite capable of taking you out of the game and stopping your arrogance and madness at at time he chooses.

Not that is a man a woman can love, talk about magic......whew!!!!!!!

Neal, "It's not only unfortunate that you regard anyone who disagrees with your strange, unsubstantiated opinions on the physical world as "god haters", but also sadly demonstrates just how uninformed you really are."
~~~~~~~~~~~

I take it that you missed the point that this person was making in their post, "you have proven yourself to be a real as*hole."

Neal:

To be fair to Luv2Bblond, I am a god hater. To be fair to me, Luv2Bblonde was severing up a big steaming pile of BS and acts as if it is beyond reproach because it was wrapped in the love of god. "scientific studies" that prove DNA has never changed, LOL! God is magic, god doesn't need no stinking science, stop trying to use science to disprove science to prove god! Stop the madness and just say god is magic and be done with it all!

"FYI, there are many, many Christians who do not share your Biblically derived view of the nature of the universe"

Well they must be the ones with the best imaginations because there is noway to reconcile what's written in the bible with reality.

Luv2Bblonde:

"The biggest problem is that pagans, non-believers, haters of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit attack you when you post the same which of course is contrary to what they want to hear and believe. This is a very immature response and only drives people away. They do not know how to agree to disagree."

FYI, there are many, many Christians who do not share your Biblically derived view of the nature of the universe. It's not only unfortunate that you regard anyone who disagrees with your strange, unsubstantiated opinions on the physical world as "god haters", but also sadly demonstrates just how uninformed you really are.

PERSPECTIVE:
LUV2BBLONDE -"Don't know if you're still participating, but it's clear you have the swearing gene - which I admire in a spirited woman - making love not war is kind of hot too!! And congratulations, you've done enough research to know that every life form has its own DNA code - but the question remains .... what is so unique about being unique, when the common thread of life under discussion is DNA?? Every critter has it, from the lowest single cell ameoba to the highest - maybe Einsteins' brain??If it's religion we're discussing, then as far as we know that cognitive/cultural complex is unique to homo sapiens, although there is some small amount of evidence that perhaps even our now extinct first cousin, homo neanderthalis may have had religious inclinations - based on burial site artifacts, etc.
As to yet another human creation, physics and mathematics, in an article today regarding discovery of the Higgs boson (often called the God particle) nobel laureate Steven Weinberg, and admitted atheist, was asked in an interview whether or not the discovery of this elusive particle might forever disprove the existence of God. He admitted that even the development of a Grand Unified Theory of Everything would probably not disprove God in the minds of many, but he did say with confidence that religion continues to evolve along with science - humans don't change so much physically these days as they do cognitively - information builds on information until one day we have a whole new view of reality.
Religion tended to provide answers to the deepest mysteries of life in ancient times, and up until the time of Newton, Gallileo, Copernicus, et al, when science began to provide empirical answers to the deep mysteries.
This continues today...smart religionists seldom take on established scientific theorems, such as evolutionary theory, for example. Educated believers know this truth about life is so factually well established as to be beyond doubt. The origins of life in a material world appear without doubt to be materially based.
Granted, some fundamentalists rail on and on about 'all that evolutionary hocus pocus' but they're really the exception rather than the rule in these days of higher education, the internet, and The Discovery Channel.
Atheist/physicist/mathematician Steven Weinberg believes religion will continue to evolve along with science. He states that as far as he's concerned, it would be easier to prove the existence of God than to disprove it, but this would require incontrovertible evidence from God (he doesn't expect proof in his lifetime) - however, for all we know, seemingly divergant paths become parallel roads and then suddenly one day converge!! At that point, it's doubtful that religion will really look anything like it does today as regards, beliefs, rites, rituals, doctrines and theocratic hierarchy.
In the end, change is the only constant......."

~~~~~~~~~
Perspective, I take it that this comment is a compliment, “Don't know if you're still participating, but it's clear you have the swearing gene - which I admire in a spirited woman - making love not war is kind of hot too!!
And congratulations, you've done enough research to know that every life form has it's own DNA code,” if so thank you. In fact this is the first time that anyone has said anything worth noting on a personal level. Meaning that all most all of the post responses I get are demeaning, put-downs, belittling, hateful, and criticisms. So again thank you.

The question was “is there a difference in human dna and animal/plant dna, The original commenter that asked advocated that human dna evolved from animal/plant dna and as a Christian I do not believe that as you can tell by my post.
The biggest problem is that pagans, non-believers, haters of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit attack you when you post the same which of course is contrary to what they want to hear and believe. This is a very immature response and only drives people away. They do not know how to agree to disagree.

There was an acquaintance I met in a bar/pub setting where I frequent and discussions were non-intimate by my choice. Until politics came up in a discussion we seem to have amicable talks about generalities in life. This person immediately attacked me in the sense that his voice became loud as if he thought that I would him better, he was somewhat aggressive with his body language, and he would let me get a word in the discussion constantly overriding my voice as if what I had to say was of no significant. After I noticed that his demeanor had gotten the attention of others around us and I had to make an “excuse” for the way he acted to them because they thought that we were “arguing which was a total embarrassment to me. Needless to say I no longer talk to this individual, so thanks Tim you have proven yourself to be a real as*hole.

This is the some kind of responses I get from what I believe is the same group of commenter’s but using different screen names with their post. The premises is what they accuse Christians of “our way is the right way.” My point there is no discussions and opportunities for sharing ideas and personal experiences that may have an impact on someone else’s life. I am done here; there is no point in dragging this out any further.

I did not want to be rude and not acknowledge you efforts, which I might add are noteworthy as a gentleman that is careful with the feelings of others as not to offend. Even though I don’t agree with you I still like you and your method of appreciating my feelings and post.

I almost didn’t answer you because of Gad’s post that followed your post because he was so rude and obnoxious.

Spot on Gad. I think he might be worse.

For the Aussies, I think Spiderman2 is one of the people in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo8GQvgPbwk

Spiderman2:

Just answer the questions buddy. I know how to spell my own name and as shown before lets not get into correct useage of the english language.

Aussies are no danger to you, a fundamentalist like yourself talking of wars with access to a bomb is however. Isn't that what you are fighting against at the moment?

The world doen't revolve around the bible mate, it may be a great book sure, but it's just a book.

Answer the questions. Your such an easy target because beyond the bible you clearly have nothing other than crude insults and poor grammar from your poor schooling.

spiderman2:
"The good part is that there is no date so you can try to delay it. But I doubt it coz if my interpretations are correct, 3 years is way too long for it not to happen."

Care to place a bet then?

"Craig, satisfied?"

No.

It's beyond ironic that when some religious people attempt to discredit the reliability of science they frequently accuse it of being "just another religion."

perspective:

Nicely stated.

Don't hate the player, hate that you are to ignorant to play the game.

LUV2BBLONDE -

Don't know if you're still participating, but it's clear you have the swearing gene - which I admire in a spirited woman - making love not war is kind of hot too!!

And congratulations, you've done enough research to know that every life form has it's own DNA code - but the question remains .... what is so unique about being unique, when the common thread of life under discussion is DNA?? Every critter has it, from the lowest single cell ameoba to the highest - maybe Einsteins' brain??

If it's religion we're discussing, then as far as we know that cognitive/cultural complex is unique to homo sapiens, although there is some small amount of evidence that perhaps even our now extinct first cousin, homo neanderthalis may have had religious inclinations - based on burial site artifacts, etc.

As to yet another human creation, physics and mathematics, in an article today regarding discovery of the Higgs boson (often called the God particle) nobel laureate Steven Weinberg, and admitted atheist, was asked in an interview whether or not the discovery of this elusive particle might forever disprove the existence of God. He admitted that even the development of a Grand Unified Theory of Everything would probably not disprove God in the minds of many, but he did say with confidence that religion continues to evolve along with science - humans don't change so much physically these days as they do cognitively - information builds on information until one day we have a whole new view of reality.

Religion tended to provide answers to the deepest mysteries of life in ancient times, and up until the time of Newton, Gallileo, Copernicus, et al, when science began to provide empirical answers to the deep mysteries.

This continues today...smart religionists seldom take on established scientific theorems, such as evolutionary theory, for example. Educated believers know this truth about life is so factually well established as to be beyond doubt. The origins of life in a material world appear without doubt to be materially based.

Granted, some fundamentalists rail on and on about 'all that evolutionary hocus pocus' but they're really the exception rather than the rule in these days of higher education, the internet, and The Discovery Channel.

Atheist/physicist/mathematician Steven Weinberg believes religion will continue to evolve along with science. He states that as far as he's concerned, it would be easier to prove the existence of God than to disprove it, but this would require incontrovertible evidence from God (he doesn't expect proof in his lifetime) - however, for all we know, seemingly divergant paths become parallel roads and then suddenly one day converge!! At that point, it's doubtful that religion will really look anything like it does today as regards, beliefs, rites, rituals, doctrines and theocratic hierarchy.

In the end, change is the only constant.......

GAD:

These seemed soooooooo relevant to the DNA discussion........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080326/sc_livescience/fastestevolvingcreatureislivingdinosaur
http://www.geneticarchaeology.com/Research/First_study_hints_at_insights_to_come_from_genes_unique_to_humans.asp

March 26, 2008 12:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments

~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOT, WHO TO YOU, WHY OF COURSE, EGOCENTRIC A/H.~~

These seemed soooooooo relevant to the DNA discussion........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080326/sc_livescience/fastestevolvingcreatureislivingdinosaur
http://www.geneticarchaeology.com/Research/First_study_hints_at_insights_to_come_from_genes_unique_to_humans.asp

Luv2Bblonde:

What, you mean you didn't nearly fall out of your seat from laughing so hard over my "witty" post!

I know I fell out of my seat from laughing so hard over your "witless" post to Spiderman2.

"I admire your intelligence, candor, knowledge of history, and quick critical thinking attribute, I would like to see you portray meekness in the image of God for those that are not in need of a strong rebuke; educate them."

I'm still laughing!

Gad, "Well for all our sakes lets hope you don't believe that birth control is a, hypothesis, based on a hypothesis, utter foolishness and a heathen and pagan practice."

~~~~~

It never ceases to amaze me the "pure arrogance" from those that don't agree with your post or the way you think. God forbid that other think differently then you.

This is my last post. I haven't visited any other sites and I am planning not to. You and others do not know the meaning of having a healthy discussion w/o Criticisms and put downs. There is nothing kind about you.

I am fuc*ing sick of it. Sooooooo fuc* u and the rest of your gang!!!!~!!!!

Luv2Bblonde:

Well that was a convoluted mess............. I think these little gems say everything that needs to be said about you.

"first let me establish that the mere fact of evolution is nothing but a hypothesis, based on a hypothesis."
"The utter foolishness of the theory of evolution"
"Evolutionist accepts heathen and pagan philosophers in preference to God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and Christians"

State these things up front so people don't waste their time thinking your serious.

"I would rather make love then make war anyway, it is a lot more fun and beneficial."

Well for all our sakes lets hope you don't believe that birth control is a, hypothesis, based on a hypothesis, utter foolishness and a heathen and pagan practice.

Neal::

Luv2Bblonde:

Wow. I think you're in danger of approaching a critical mass of strawmen and red herrings with your last post. I can see why you don't want to continue arguing your position; even pseudo-science isn't all that easy.

To paraphrase: "If only you hateful pagans would just abandon the stupid scientific method and accept what I claim, without proof, about the nature and intent of *my" god, the nature of the universe, the veracity of *my* holy book, and anything else I don't understand, then this world would not only be a lot simpler, but we'd save a ton on test tubes and petri dishes."

If you really don't trust science as much as you seem not to, I think it's only fair that you turn in your cell phone. After all, for all you know, Jesus placed them in our midst so that the Devil could text message us with false prophesies.

Aloha

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry you saw my post that way. But hey, I could use a text message from the devil then I could prove to you and others that he exist! LOL

I don't hate pagans, I just don't believe what they believe, nothing more. Don't over analyze my post.

Good-bye

spiderman2:

Cane wrote : "Glad I live in Australia.."

Stay there. It makes me feel safer here.

By the way, have you heard of the phrase "sensitive information"? The Bible wrote it's "sensitive information" in codes so fools like you won't be able to decipher it. What could be worse than to be treated as a fool by the most revered Book in history?

Cane? As in sugar cane? Isn't that supposed to be Cain? No wonder you really can't understand the Bible. You even can't spell correctly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know that I shouldn't say this but, I almost fell out of my seat from laughing so hard over your "witty" post.

Spiderman2, you are way too intelligent to succumb to such pettiness as name calling and casting insults. (even though you are good at that too)

Let’s stick to the topic or subject matter. Actually, a health debate is good but the mudslinging and arbitrariness is tasteless for a gentleman. God and Jesus are gentlemans but have taken the road of strong rebuke only with their enemies.

Many on this thread want to just know about our belief and you do get more bees with honey. Although I admire your intelligence, candor, knowledge of history, and quick critical thinking attribute, I would like to see you portray meekness in the image of God for those that are not in need of a strong rebuke; educate them.

In God’s eyes we all are one. It is God that judges the heart not us. I do agree that identifiable evil attributes need to be addressed but only at the times the traits are exhibited.

1 Timothy 6:3-5, 11, 20, {3} If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, {4} he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions {5} and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.…..{11} 1But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness….{20}Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge

Luv2Bblonde:

Wow. I think you're in danger of approaching a critical mass of strawmen and red herrings with your last post. I can see why you don't want to continue arguing your position; even pseudo-science isn't all that easy.

To paraphrase: "If only you hateful pagans would just abandon the stupid scientific method and accept what I claim, without proof, about the nature and intent of *my" god, the nature of the universe, the veracity of *my* holy book, and anything else I don't understand, then this world would not only be a lot simpler, but we'd save a ton on test tubes and petri dishes."

If you really don't trust science as much as you seem not to, I think it's only fair that you turn in your cell phone. After all, for all you know, Jesus placed them in our midst so that the Devil could text message us with false prophesies.

Aloha

Cane wrote : "Glad I live in Australia.."

Stay there. It makes me feel safer here.

By the way, have you heard of the phrase "sensitive information"? The Bible wrote it's "sensitive information" in codes so fools like you won't be able to decipher it. What could be worse than to be treated as a fool by the most revered Book in history?

Cane? As in sugar cane? Isn't that supposed to be Cain? No wonder you really can't understand the Bible. You even can't spell correctly.

Australia.." (censorship testing)

Cane wrote : "Glad I live in

(censorship testing)

Stay there. It makes me feel safer here. (censorship testing)

Cane wrote : "Spiderman 2, Mate, for starters if your going to call people unintelligent at least construct a gramatically correct sentence! "

Yup, and deal with your own errors too like "your" instead of "you're".

testing the word Cain (censorship testing)

testing the word fool or fools (censorship testing)

censor testing

GAD:
Luv2Bblonde:
All you did was beg the question i.e. people have DNA, frogs have DNA, people don't look like frogs, therefore human DNA is different..........
Still waiting for those "scientific Studies" that shows that DNA doesn't change over time. Better ask some creationist scientists for them, because any REAL scientist who believes in EVOLUTION is going to tell you and show you that it has to, or we'd still have tails, at least more us anyway...........

Gad, first let me establish that the mere fact of evolution is nothing but a hypothesis, based on a hypothesis. There is no scientific proof that substantiates that human DNA evolved from apes. Having said that, scientifically speaking the study of human DNA isn’t that old so how is it that you think “proof” exist that DNA changed over thousands of years from ape to man, the fact is you can’t.
However, what scientist do know, and I used the forensic lab as updated an example, human DNA is and has been unchanged since it was identified as a molecular structure. A creation specialist cannot prove their theory and never will, again it is a hypothesis. The fact that currently in the real world scientist that deal with human DNA daily such as the forensic lab differentiate human DNA from non-human DNA should elude that “there is a difference.”

It was my understanding that the question was that there was no difference between human DNA and other species such as animal/plants. Now if you creation specialist can prove that they are the same and DNA just up on its own “changed” into something else over the years our forensic lab for the sake of providing undisputable evidence is and has been wasting the judicial system’s time making a distinction between human and non-human DNA.
Besides how on earth any scientist believes that DNA came from nothing, evolved into an ape, then evolved again into human all from nothing is a hypothetical point that they have never been able to prove. I might add that their hypothesis all started on the premises to “denounce” human creation” by God.
The theory of evolution is that all forms of life derived by gradual modification from earlier simpler forms or from one rudimentary form. It teaches a process that something complex is developed by itself from a simple beginning. It accepts the existence of the causes of the first substance and the forces working successive transformations from a lower to a higher form of matter and life.

The theory of cosmic evolution claims that from lower units of matter (atoms and molecules) the vast material sun, moon, stars, plants, and universe were formed by themselves. The utter foolishness of the theory of evolution is that powers are “possessed by molecules.” However it cannot account how these molecules got their inherent power, came into existence, or how definite laws of governing them to produce, without failure, all the things as we know them now.

Evolutionist accepts heathen and pagan philosophers in preference to God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and Christians. Perhaps if those that believed in the theory of how everything came from nothingness would study the anatomy and physiology of the human body they would be more inclined to at least admit that the structure and functioning of human DNA derived from an intelligent being. First I think that they need to denounce their hatred of God and Christ before any “enlightenment” of the truth can occur.

As a note, true science rejects that nothing working on nothing, by nothing, for nothing, begat everything.

The frog DNA was just an interesting tidbit that I elected to include for an FYI only, not as part of my argument.

Besides, I do not want to argue. I think that it has already been established that we disagree on this point, God, Christ, and the bible.

I would rather make love then make war anyway, it is a lot more fun and beneficial.

Spiderman 2,
Mate, for starters if your going to call people unintelligent at least construct a gramatically correct sentence!

You wrote: "That is the big difference between an ignorant's point of view against a knowledgeable person's"

"an ignorant's"! It's "ignoramus" you fool, you do yourself no favors.

Secondly, no I'm not satisfied, Craig had it right. Its human nature to fight wars and your America centric view of the world that its gonna be Iran etc is insulting. You know it all, I asked you to tell me when the next one is and you wouldn't or couldn't. Because you dont know and no amount of scriptural bamboozlement is gonna get you out of that.

The bible doesn't have it all right mate, the world is millions of years old not thousands as has been scientifically proven so (one example). It's a document compiled by humans over many years at a time of relatively great ignorance of basic truths that we now know (germ theory, the earth revolves around the sun, earthquakes are not gods punishment, by the way please articulate the link between meteorology and morality).

Will you or will you not agree that no one knows if god exists or not? If not, prove it. No one else has.

Glad I live in Australia by the way and we don't have to deal with these types in our daily political discourse.

There is such an interesting set of responses on the board.

My personal thanks to the original author and all who have participated. Good souls in essence all.

I'm moved to give an alternative view of things for those that might be receptive. May each find his or her way in the great Quest.

Just as Plato said the gods and goddesses were to be found in heaven, and Aristotle that the gods and goddesses were to be found right here on earth in human form......reflection and most importantly profound inner serenity imparts the intuition that both were correct.

And I feel inclined to add that though both believed creation was administered thru a pantheon, they also believed there was only one ultimate, indefinable God or Power (the One) at the root of existence.

The Platonic "One" was not a personality, but a supreme principle upon whom all creation depended (or from which all was suspended); and this Principle was paradoxically closer and more immediately available to individual experience than any personal god could ever be. This experience was reserved however for those who adopted the philosophical (love of Sophia) life and through self-discipline, repose, daily refinement of character and behavior, and exercise of reason.....fitted themselves to merit at some point intuitive experiences confirming or justifying faith in the teachings.

It is interesting perhaps to ponder that most of the older religions (Hindu, Buddhist, Cabalism, Taoism, etc.) had actually arrived (at an even earlier date in history) at similar or largely compatible core spiritual underpinnings as the Greeks and Egyptians, though the mainstream versions of the two most recent members of the world fraternity broadly speaking have not.

Carrying the opening remarks a little further, a few readers of this column may sense in some authentic manner that everyone posting here is "right", regardless their view.

One cannot grow and evolve on this planet without understanding that nuance, contradiction and paradox are woven into the fabric of mortal life & physical creation.

We must let the scientist, the atheist and the believer each be right. The older religions in affect teach that by natural and spiritual laws all is as it must inevitably be at each moment, yet within each moment all that apparently is not right can in some measure be transmuted.

What is not always easy to digest is the fact that knowledge or truth is ultimately determined by what a person is, structured in a person's essence or consciousness.

"truth" is in fact relative (unless you're an enlightened being of some kind); it is almost a kind of fable, depending ultimately on what might be termed an alchemical synthesis of all the states of consciousness that exist awake within a person at a given moment.

These states change over time of course. New experiences bring new insights, wisdom and realizations. Truth for each individual is ever changing (at least until the never-changing has fully awakened within).

So with all of this said, we should perhaps each seek to change ourselves, transmute our non-purposeful judgments and opinions, habits and shortcomings first through the religion or program of unfoldment natural to our heart; then as a result and by extension our community or "world".

It seems we can do it if we sense we are ultimately of one spiritual family. To survive we must.

Luv2Bblonde:

All you did was beg the question i.e. people have DNA, frogs have DNA, people don't look like frogs, therefore human DNA is different..........

Still waiting for those "scientific Studies" that shows that DNA doesn't change over time. Better ask some creationist scientists for them, because any REAL scientist who believes in EVOLUTION is going to tell you and show you that it has to, or we'd still have tails, at least more us anyway...........

Spiderman2:
Why are you so distainful of the Roman Catholic Faith? How can you justify calling Catholicism "a devil's religion?" How is that in any way helpful in proving any point you are making? All it does is alienate others. You would be best served by effectively explaining your point of view rather than calling others names. Remember there are literally hundreds of millions of people that practice Catholicism in good faith. Bringing others down does not lift you up

Craig wrote : "There is *always* another war coming. Predicting another war is like predicting that tomorrow, water will continue to be wet."

WRONG. That is the big difference between an ignorant's point of view against a knowledgeable person's. Without exception, all atheists' views here are based on ignorance. The time will come when the so called "age of enlightenment" (read : age of ignorance) will rule this world and see what kind of trouble they will bring. Doomsday will be preceeded by that event and it's the primary reason why Doomsday will occur.

The reason why this election is so important to liberal democrats is that they want a president that would stop the war. But sadly for them (or maybe us also), it aint gonna happen. "Nobody is going to the beach yet. There's another war coming." The real question is, who do you want to be president if the U.S battles with Iran or North Korea? The Bible states that it's smaller than China so I'm not quite sure yet which of the two coz the two certainly fits the bill, although I'm inclined to believe that it's Iran.

But there is no question that it's gonna happen. The Bible is not engaged in lies coz it's the book of God. Whatever it says, it's going to happen just as how it describes Hell as real. So beware folks, coz there'll be a lot of burning soon if you're not careful. The burning is real and no doubt about that.

Sorry to dampen the thrill of this election guys. The fact that the event is written on the Bible means it doesn't matter anymore who you vote for coz whether we like it or not, war with Iran or Korea is coming and it is as sure or certain as what Craig has described that, "tomorrow, water will continue to be wet." BULL'S-EYE.

The good part is that there is no date so you can try to delay it. But I doubt it coz if my interpretations are correct, 3 years is way too long for it not to happen.

Craig, satisfied?

Arminius, the Liberal Christian, what does your doctrine say about the coming events? Or are you still as ignorant as the people you want to convert? Also , Im interested on what I said in my previous posts that you find offensive. Are you a Catholic? I don't hate Catholics coz I have many Catholic friends but I hate Catholicism. It's one of the devil's religion. I have read the King James version Bible and I don't find any passage in there that warrants its burning but thru-out history, burning they did. Only devils hate the Word of God.

Cane, satisfied?

perplexed:
LUV2BBLONDE - you see, this is what Wikipedia is for....go there and get a quick de-briefing on DNA and you'll know ever so much more!!
DNA coding programs the development of all life forms on this particular planet - arrangement is the key to results. Only humans have the human DNA program.....thus the arrangement of the human 'code'.
Surely you didn't think we were different in kind from our other sentient, furry and feathered brothers and sisters, did you?? That even includes the hermaphrodites among us - both sexes in one package... which does tend to cut down on dating behavior.
Mother Earth and ALL of her children in one big happy family!!! That includes us.........
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Perplexed,

Human Deoxyribonucleic Acid, AKA DNA has its own structure; no other species has the same composite make-up as the human DNA. Other humans have a different DNA make-up but other species have their own DNA components that are not like human DNA.

As I said before outside of human manipulation the DNA structure of the human being remains alone in its individuality. Things that change DNA structure or cause mutated DNA are radiation, chemicals, diseases, and errors caused by abnormalities in proteins that function in the nucleus and are involved in DNA repair. People that carry these abnormal proteins have a higher risk of getting certain diseases such as cancer.

No two DNA genetic make up are alike not even in identical twins where the amniotic sac and placenta are shared. Additionally, forensic science labs that process DNA collection samples note the difference between human DNA and non-human DNA.

Human DNA Quantitation, when biological evidence from a crime scene is processed to isolate the DNA present, all sources of DNA are extracted. Thus, non-human DNA such as bacterial, fungal, plant, or animal material may also be present in the total DNA recovered from the sample along with the relevant human DNA of interest.

For this reason, the DNA Advisory Board (DAB) Standards that govern forensic DNA testing of forensic casework require human-specific DNA quantitation (standard 9.3). This requirement ensures that appropriate levels of human DNA can be included in the subsequent polymerase chain reaction (PCR) amplification of short tandem repeats (STRs) evaluated in a DNA profile.

Equally important is the fact that multiplex STR typing works best with a fairly narrow range of human DNA. Typically 0.5 to 2.0 ng of input DNA works best with commercial STR kits. In recent years, research in human DNA quantitation has focused on new “real-time” quantitative PCR (qPCR) techniques.

Quantitative PCR methods enable automated, precise, and high-throughput measurements. Interlaboratory studies have demonstrated the importance of human DNA quantitation on achieving reliable interpretation of STR typing and obtaining consistent results across laboratories.

As far as “hermaphrodites” this doesn’t include humans. Even science with its progress does not allow what is described as an “ambiguous genitalia” to reproduce or satisfy itself sexually.

“Interestingly, recent scienctific evidence put forward by East Carolina University suggests that some species of frogs, like the Dendrobates captivus, often engage in homosexual activity, and as a result their reproduction rate per year has been slowly decreasing.” (Wikipedia)

Want to go to McDonalds?? No, I didn’t think so. LOL

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated-

There are many scholars that believe the eye witnesses' accounts to be true. You've come to the conclusions that you have based on faulty speculation by "scholars" that "think" they know what really happened but don't really know. This is why we base our belief in Christ and His resurrection on Faith-

It's interesting that you can't , or won't believe those that took the time to write this down and believed it to the point of death but will believe the speculation of liberal theologians that are not in lock step with the actual beliefs of the Catholic church or any real church that bases its beliefs in what Paul or the other Apostles have to say in the various epistles. I suspect that you just can't believe that man is sinful and needs Christ's redemption and conquering of this condition. It's too bad, as the crux of the message. You are not liberated, you are running from your liberation- Jesus the Messiah- who died and rose again.

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated-

There are many scholars that believe the eye witnesses' accounts to be true. You've come to the conclusions that you have based on faulty speculation by "scholars" that "think" they know what really happened but don't really know. This is why we base our belief in Christ and His resurrection on Faith-

It's interesting that you can't , or won't believe those that took the time to write this down and believed it to the point of death but will believe the speculation of liberal theologians that are not in lock step with the actual beliefs of the Catholic church or any real church that bases its beliefs in what Paul or the other Apostles have to say in the various epistles. I suspect that you just can't believe that man is sinful and needs Christ's redemption and conquering of this condition. It's too bad, as the crux of the message. You are not liberated, you are running from your liberation- Jesus the Messiah- who died and rose again.

Magda, living through horrific events does not necessarily make you loose faith in God. I went searching for God in the midst of a bloody civil war that I barely survived and in which many people that I loved were killed. I explored different religions and was agnostic for a brief period. The only thing that made sense to me was Jesus and the Bible.
We all follow different paths. Do not be so judgemental or dismissive of others who do not choose the same path as you. And do not assume that only those who have had an easy life and lots of money can believe in God. God only knows that my life has not been easy and still is not, but I still believe.

I thought Anne Rice wrote a very positive, uplifting essay. It told of her personal spiritual journey and explained why she believes as she does. In no way did it condemn anyone else for contrary beliefs. I wonder how such an essay can engender so much negativity. Why do people feel compelled to ridicule people who feel differently than they do? Does the belief in God really mean someone is naive? Or could it mean that they evaluate the data available to them in a different way. Frankly, I think Anne's story is far more compelling than the standard Atheistic argument that " if I can't prove there's a God, He must not exist."

spiderman 2,

You posted: "why am I able to know what's the next coming war and the other succeeding wars but you can't?"

Seriously, read this again and see how much of a loon you sound like. You know the next coming war and the other succeeding wars?

Well, let us know. What are they, where will they be and when? List them in order, time and place and we'll see if your right.

You undermine your own arguements with ridiculous comments like that. How can I respect you or your opinions with posts like that, seriously.

Godfree wrote : "Seems in order to save religion, Jesus has gotta go. God too. Sounds like my kind of religion. No supernatural nonsense"

WRONG. God doesn't go anywhere. It is Him who decides who's going and where that person is going. And for all those people who want God to go, God had already reserved a place where it it always better to shout just to ease the pain. And lucky for you guys, God is not there to hear your shout for mercy.

As the Bible had said, the next war will be with Iran or Korea, next is with C**, next is with *** (you may not like to hear it) and finally all unbelievers will roast alive. Please believe it coz now is the day of mercy. The Day will come when there is NO MERCY. Crying in absolute pain but NO MERCY. I don't understand it myself but that's the truth. When Jesus said that it would be better for you if you cut your hand if that hand would send you to hell, that is literal and He means it.

"Seek and ye shall find". He tells it to everybody. I did and after years of blindness and stupidity, I found it. The Day is fast approaching, and to tell you frankly, so little time is left.

Spiderman 2 wrote:
"The language of God is so smart that no atheist is capable of comprehending it. Their level of intelligence is so low that they can't distinguish a metaphor to a fantasy"

For starters its "distinguish a metaphor FROM a fantasy" not "to", Mr. super high intelligence and secondly you contradict yourself when you say "Their level (athiests) of intelligence is so low that they can't distinguish a metaphor to a fantasy", then you go on to say Jesus literally turned water into wine etc in another post. Is that a metaphor or a fantasy?

As I said in my original post, have the academic honesty to admit that we don't fully know these things, we don't know if Jesus was the son of god, he either was or he wasn't, he's either the real deal or a fraud, I dont know, and neither do you, that is an honest intelligent starting point for discourse and I can't respect someone like yourself that is so blinded by religious dogma that you can't see this.

LUV2BBLONDE - you see, this is what Wikipedia is for....go there and get a quick de-briefing on DNA and you'll know ever so much more!!

DNA coding programs the development of all life forms on this particular planet - arrangement is the key to results. Only humans have the human DNA program.....thus the arrangement of the human 'code'.

Surely you didn't think we were different in kind from our other sentient, furry and feathered brothers and sisters, did you?? That even includes the hermaphrodites among us - both sexes in one package... which does tend to cut down on dating behavior.

Mother Earth and ALL of her children in one big happy family!!! That includes us.........

Anne.

In your fortunate and successful life, you must be persuaded that somebody up there likes you. So it follows that there must be somebody up there.

If,instead of a wonderful life, you had experienced the agony of the holocaust, you might feel differently.

There is no semblance of justice in this world. Life for much of the world's population is hellish.
Tsunamis, earthquakes, floods,hurricanes,and starvation kill millions every year, and millions more are slaughtered in wars.

There is no intervention from the man upstairs ever. Prayer achieves nothing.(Tests and experiments show this). The good die along with the bad.

It was outrageous on 9/11 that certain survivors thought God had intervened to save them from certain death, while thousands of other people died. That's religion for you. It make people think really dumb things.

It is ridiculous to believe in god as it is to believe in fairy stories. But yes, if life is a great success with fame and everything, it would almost follow that there really is a god. But you shouldn't be so easily fooled. The holocaust would have made you think differently. There is no god.

anon, "LOL! and which "Scientific studies" would those be?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Great minds think a like!! Agree?? I am Laughing Out Loud, (LOL) because I anticipated your, this very response.

I have six doctors on staff in the clinic today and will get back to you after I have a round table meeting them.

Thanks for being patient.

"Scientific studies indicate that DNA remains stable and void of change outside human manipulation."

LOL! and which "Scientific studies" would those be?

thank you for this wonderful insightful message of hope. I will copy this and reread it on days that the world looks bleek and that I see so many turning their back on Jesus and my heart breaks for them. But God is in control and HE is a God of love, sovereignty and hope. Mercy and grace are even more attributes of HIS alone. thank you

Neal, "Do you think human DNA can change over time?

Please take your time responding--I'm feeling a little hungry. ;)"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scientific studies indicate that DNA remains stable and void of change outside human manipulation. Which to me is a very dangerous area to dabble in.

As far as you hunger, I suggest that you avoid McDonalds, very non-nutritious and unhealthy food for human consumption. Stick with the pig. :~}

Luv2Bblonde:

If you agree that humans and ham sandwiches can share some of the same genes, as you seem to, why do you not agree that humans and chimps can share 98% of theirs? No one is saying that humans are chimps, but there's pretty good evidence that they are very close genetically.

Do you think human DNA can change over time?

Please take your time responding--I'm feeling a little hungry. ;)

To Godfree

Interesting article.

I often wonder how religion of the supernatural kind continues (in the USA and the Moslem world anyway) while more enlightened countries in Europe and Canada show attendence dwindling and nonbelief rising (especially since 9'11).

Its the skygod thing that makes religion impossible to take seriously.

Without religious indoctrination nobody would fall for it. to remove superstition from religion will lose lots of fans, but maybe gain credibility as at least not being full of hocus pocus, like, say, astrology is.

Christianity may go, but we will still be stuck with Islam. Maybe they'll be next to dump Allah and the celestial virgins. Then the world will finally be at peace. An reality will finally come of age.

bodhi said:

"While you're correct in saying Einstein believed in an static universe at first, & even came up with his "fudge factor" to prove it after first postulating relativity...his "fudge factor" was proven to be incorrect within a few years (I've read in several places his error was dividing by zero)."

You said that Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" proved that the universe had a beginning, that was and is incorrect as it didn't and doesn't.

bodhi said:
"Next point, CMBR points toward a singularity. It points to the finite universe....a beginning. Many would think that it bolsters the idea of design, I know I do. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that CMBR makes the Bible story a myth?"

The BB is NOT compatible with the bible creation, if the BB is true then the bible is false. There is no way to make them compatible except by pure imagination.

bodhi said:
"On a final note, if you truly want a discussion of beliefs, do your best not to be condescending or dismissive of those you disagree with. Don't assign motives to someone just because you don't find their argument compelling...be civil."

Point taken.

If you want to discuss these issues in more detail contact me on my blog.

Neal,

That was my point, there is no proof of human DNA being arranged any where or in another form that matches human DNA.

As far as a ham sandwich, go figure, but still not human DNA.

Anne,

Wonderful testimony of your love for Christ and your new found faith. I stand with you in your belief as I love God and Christ too.

It seems that some would rather remember you in your “before Christ” status and not respect your new decision to follow Christ and his teachings.

Really, it is none of their business what religion you choose to practice. It is solely your decision regarding what faith you choose, no one can make that choice for you.

Let those that want to find fault, act childish, and criticize you, stay strong and don’t look back.

Your sister in Christ....

Luv2bblone:

Like it or not, if you arrange genes in a certain order you get a human; if you arrange some of these same genes in a different order you get a ham sandwich.

"Seems in order to save religion, Jesus has gotta go. God too. Sounds like my kind of religion.
No supernatural nonsense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good for you, remember it is only your opinion mot mine or others.

I respectfully do not agree with the article you posted at all.

No Jesus, No Peace
Know Jesus, Know Peace

have a good day and life

Godfree;

That's beautiful; a religion that dumps the supernatural seems like a brilliant idea. While I haven't been inside a church since 1981 when I got married, I don't see that changing anytime soon. But my main objection to religion has been the Mickey Mouse mentality which insists on the 'reality' of a supernatural sky god and the life everlasting pipe dream, which has always been religion's big drawing card.

Dump those silly ideas and religion will resemble Buddhism which draws on the inner person and the ability to transcend banal reality with a deep awareness of the wonder of actual existence.

There is no supernatural world. There is only this real world which superstition blinds us to.

Regards, Andrew

from The Globe and Mail, Canada.

MICHAEL VALPY

March 22, 2008

That triumphal barnburner of an Easter hymn, Jesus Christ Has Risen Today - Hallelujah, this morning will rock the walls of Toronto's West Hill United Church as it will in most Christian churches across the country.

But at West Hill on the faith's holiest day, it will be done with a huge difference. The words "Jesus Christ" will be excised from what the congregation sings and replaced with "Glorious hope."

Thus, it will be hope that is declared to be resurrected - an expression of renewal of optimism and the human spirit - but not Jesus, contrary to Christianity's central tenet about the return to life on Easter morning of the crucified divine son of God.

Generally speaking, no divine anybody makes an appearance in West Hill's Sunday service liturgy.
Print Edition - Section Front

Section A Front Enlarge Image
The Globe and Mail

There is no authoritative Big-Godism, as Rev. Gretta Vosper, West Hill's minister for the past 10 years, puts it. No petitionary prayers ("Dear God, step into the world and do good things about global warming and the poor"). No miracles-performing magic Jesus given birth by a virgin and coming back to life. No references to salvation, Christianity's teaching of the final victory over death through belief in Jesus's death as an atonement for sin and the omnipotent love of God. For that matter, no omnipotent God, or god.

Ms. Vosper has written a book, published this week - With or Without God: Why the Way We Live is More Important than What We Believe - in which she argues that the Christian church, in the form in which it exists today, has outlived its viability and either it sheds its no-longer credible myths, doctrines and dogmas, or it's toast.

She is considered one of the bright, if unconventional, minds within the United Church, Canada's largest Protestant Christian denomination. She holds a master of divinity degree from Queen's University and was ordained in 1992. She founded and chairs the Toronto-based Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity.

Other Christian clergy and theologians have talked about the need to dramatically reform the doctrines of a faith that, with the exception of its vibrancy in the United States, has lost huge numbers of adherents throughout the Western world it once dominated as Christendom. In Canada, where 75 per cent of the population self-identifies as Christian, only about 16 per cent attend weekly services.

Addressing those statistics, what Ms. Vosper proposes is not so much reform as a scorched-earth approach.

A number of leading theologians in Britain - where the decline in adherents is more dramatic than in Canada - are on the same path, people like Richard Holloway, former bishop of Edinburgh and primate of the Scottish Episcopal (Anglican) Church, who has likened the Christian church to a self-service cafeteria stacked with messy trays of leftover food urgently in need of being thrown out.

Like Bishop Holloway, Ms. Vosper does not want to dress up the theological detritus - her words - of the past two millennia with new language in the hope of making it more palatable. She wants to get rid of it, and build on its ashes a new spiritual movement that will have relevance in a tight-knit global world under threat of human destruction.

She says there's been virtually a consensus among scholars for the past 30 years that the Bible is not some divine emanation - or in Ms. Vosper acronym, TAWOGFAT, The Authoritative Word of God For All Time - but a human project filled with contradictions and the conflicting worldviews and political perspectives of its authors.

And yet, she says, the liberal Christian churches, including her own, won't acknowledge that it is a human project, that it's wrong in parts and that, in the 21st century, it's no more useful as a spiritual and religious guide than a number of other books.

She says now that the work of biblical scholars has become publicly accessible, the churches and their clergy are caught living a lie that few people will buy much longer. "I just don't think we can placate those in the pews long enough to transition into a kind of new community that doesn't keep people away."

She wants salvation redefined to mean new life through removing the causes of suffering in the world. She wants the church to define resurrection as "starting over," "new chances." She wants an end to the image of God as an intervening all-powerful authority who must be appeased to avoid divine wrath; rather she would have congregations work together as communities to define God - or god - according to their own worked-out definitions of what is holy and sacred. She wants the eucharist - the symbolic eating and drinking of Jesus's body and blood to make the congregation part of Jesus's body - to be instead a symbolic experience of community love.

Theologians asked to comment on her book said they wouldn't until they've read it.

But one of her colleagues who knows her well, Rev. Rob Oliphant, the progressive pastor of Toronto's Eglinton St. George's United Church, said, "While I'm somewhat sympathetic to the aims of it all - getting rid of the nonsense and keeping the core faith - I think that there is something lacking in it all. Gone is metaphor, poetry, symbol, image, beauty, paradox."

Ms. Vosper said she and her congregation have tried hard not to lose those elements in their search for the sacred and the transcendent in life.

She met with members of her congregation last Sunday to discuss what the impact might be of her book.

She said it would take only a single vote of a presbytery - a local governing body of the church - to bring her before the church courts if a complaint against her is made, and the courts could be interested in examining what it means to be in "essential agreement" with the church's statement of faith.

"I can find myself in there [the statements of faith] but there's whole parts of it where I go, 'Oh my goodness, this is terrible.' If someone says to me, 'Do you believe in God?' I can come up with an answer that would satisfy the courts of the United Church. But would it reflect what's stated in their statement of faith? I don't think so. But it wouldn't be very far from what my colleague down the street, and what his colleague down the street from him, would say. That's the problem."

Seems in order to save religion, Jesus has gotta go. God too. Sounds like my kind of religion.
No supernatural nonsense.

BODHI:

Thanks for responding.

I'm familiar with the extra-Biblical sources you referenced, among others, and do not regard them as any kind of "proof" for the supernatural events in the NT. Some of these do nothing more than refer to a Christian movement at some later time and others, such as Josephus, are regarded by many Biblical scholars as either partial or total interpolations. I find it curious that you would accept any of these as proofs, especially in view of the extremely high standards you seem to require for scientific hypotheses.

Please don't feel obligated to respond, but thanks for the discussion. Have a good one.

Preplexed, "And who ever said chimps were human? Only 98% of their DNA is the same. In fact, humans share the bulk of their DNA with all the various life forms found on earth (not in heaven) - just consider"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is wrong, human DNA biologically is just that, human. No other species shares human DNA, none.

Spiderman2 - like it or not, your ancestor too.

And who ever said chimps were human? Only 98% of their DNA is the same. In fact, humans share the bulk of their DNA with all the various life forms found on earth (not in heaven) - just consider yourself a wonderful 'accident' of nature!

I know you've got the 'wonderful' part down, and now for the next step....embrace Mother Nature in all her glory - amen.

Remember the 'facts are facts' rule - you may not like it, but it's true anyway....kind of like your rules, only based on science rather than religious hyper-mania.

Good luck with your personal crusade ....

Perplexed,

There's nothing in DNAs which tells that it can change from one specie to another. It's either you are human or not human. And since you've said that your ancestor is a prosimian primate, I would not contest that. It shows.

Spiderman you've got you're physical anthropology all wrong - but that's no surprise is it??

Humans are much closer to chimps than monkeys, genetically speaking. While primates be primates, including orangs, gorillas, chimps and humans, none are monkeys.

We did have a common ancestor several millions of years ago - a prosimian primate very similar to the present-day Lemur which is found in Madagascar and the Comoro Islands....but not to worry, as I'm sure you're nothing like a Lemur - are you?? No, more like a bad-tempered chimp I would think.....

Perplexed wrote : "Faith is faith, and facts is facts"

TRUE and I haven't seen any atheist/secularist having both of them. Ignorance is ignorance... that one, they've got hoards of it and overflowing. No wonder Doomsday is the immediate result of their rule. Yes, ignorance will soon rule this earth. Just wait and see.

I've heard Dawkins will visit the States and some people are eager to meet him. His message?

"I've got good news for you guys. My science tell me that you're a bunch of developed monkeys. Hmm, you don't agree? Ok then, we're a product of our common ancestor. And our common ancestor is a product of a man who spoused a monkey. I'm a busy person and I need to go now. Now where's my talent fee?"

I can see Perplexed falling in line and gleefully pay the bill and exclaims,

"Wow, what great science I just heard. I feel great coz I'm told that I'm smarter than monkeys."

ometimes the twain shall not meet. For all the bible-thumping, "scripture quoting, and declarations of faith on this thread, it's doubtful that a singular secular humanist, atheist or otherwise, has been converted."

Isn't it ironic how u speak as "we" & overlook all the demeaning, belittling, comments made by your sect in hopes to make christians feel embarassed & as deviants to steer us away from God.

I like spiderman2's post and others as well. Why can't we just accept each other w/o trying to change one another? Different beliefs can coexist. If that is to hard for u then by all means leave it alone. But the put downs & name calling & saying we have "imaginary" friends like we are "sick-minded" people is just wrong.

Let us reside peacefully together, please.

ometimes the twain shall not meet. For all the bible-thumping, "scripture quoting, and declarations of faith on this thread, it's doubtful that a singular secular humanist, atheist or otherwise, has been converted."

Isn't it ironic how u speak as "we" & overlook all the demeaning, belittling, comments made by your sect in hopes to make christians feel embarassed & as deviants to steer us away from God.

I like spiderman2's post and others as well. Why can't we just accept each other w/o trying to change one another? Different beliefs can coexist. If that is to hard for u then by all means leave it alone. But the put downs & name calling & saying we have "imaginary" friends like we are "sick-minded" people is just wrong.

Let us reside peacefully together, please.

R.S.NEWARK - the fact is, secularists find Christian fundamentalists fascistic, unbending,
authoritarian, and all the things you believe to be true about secularists. See Spiderman2 and his many (rabidly fundamentalist) posts as a perfect example.

BTW, you don't have to simplify your agruments to a more understandable format - they're very easy to understand. We just don't buy them.....

Faith is faith, and facts is facts - sometimes the twain shall not meet. For all the bible-thumping, scripture quoting, and declarations of faith on this thread, it's doubtful that a singular secular humanist, atheist or otherwise, has been converted.

The great divide is not only political in the USA these days - although it's safe to say most fundamentalists and born-again evangelicals are of the republican persuasion.... a perfect fit.

Sometimes it's hard to separate politics from religion these days, and that's unfortunate in the secularist view. It's exactly what the Founders hoped to prevent........

Cool.

So I assume you gave all the money back you made selling books about fornication and the undead - WITH the undead?

Naaaah, of course you didn't; it's not as easy to believe in fantasy worlds if you're flat broke.

For all those people who thought this was a argument for Christian faith are completely wrong. She wrote to encourage those of the faith and declare her own faith. As I was reading all these comments so many were so quick to pick apart her words. She encouraged those who believe in Christ to trust. She was sharing her life as to what that meant to her life.

By the way, I think she has problably done a little more research than the average Joe. I think she has written a few popular books in her time.

Very lovely, very beautiful, I'm one too. The dificulty is that Secularism is rather faschist and totalitarian - I'm right,your wrong,and you'd better believe it....cause it'll only get worse later, you know,like another"kristalnacht".
So, we're going to have to fend them off with arguments they are forced to understand.

For all those people who thought this was a argument for Christian faith are completely wrong. She wrote to encourage those of the faith and declare her own faith. As I was reading all these comments so many were so quick to pick apart her words. She encouraged those who believe in Christ to trust. She was sharing her life as to what that meant to her life.

By the way, I think she has problably done a little more research than the average Joe. I think she has written a few popular books in her time.

Anyone want to spend eternity with Spiderman2 ??

just wondering .......

The problem with your faith is that your faith is an idolatrous one. Worshiping a man who may not even have been historical is pure idolatory.

I would like you to explore the Hindu concept of Brahman instead which says that we are part of this Brahman, the Universal Soul and that this Brahman is inside us and that there is no external God, the type Jesus preached.

Since we together constitute God, it is up to this God to strive for perfection. Earthquakes, floods, will always be there. Bu we can reduce human misery by our actions.

Closer we get to perfection, the more perfect this God becomes. Jesus saw some of this but his message was flawed. His trip to India was not entirely productive. he should have studied Buddha a little longer, read the Bhagvada Gita a few more times.

Had Jesus' teaching been better, had he not claimed nonsense such as "salvation is thru me only", Christian would not have committed the massacres they did, such as the killing of the six million Jews.

nym, "I'll believe in Jesus when I see him on CNN. Until then I'd rather try to live a morally responsible life that does not depend on forgiveness of irresponsible acts by an imaginary friend to be able to do it."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Corinthians 7:10-15, {10} "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: {11} But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. {12} But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. {13} And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
{14} For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.{15}But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases……"

Dear Anne,

Just this note to say how blessed I am to read your words: "And when faith returned to me, it was total." What a brilliant testimony to the God who is a faithful 'hound of heaven' ever staying with us until He finds US faithful. Reminds me of the verse in 11Tim. that says; "Even if we believe not, He abideth faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

He was faithful to me also, even in my 'Dark Night' and 'caused me to walk in His ways.'

If you have time you may want to take a look at my web-site, www.christasus.com and our sister site www.normangrubb.com.

I pray our paths cross at some point.

Lovingly in Jesus,

Linda Bunting

There's no reason to begrudge anyone a state of rapture such as yours. But there may be not all that much reason to envy it either.

Why so? The stuff of self-fulfilling prophesy seems a little odd, at least to those of us more swept up in innocent curiosity than in attaining states of bliss. Belated reconciliations such as yours always seem obliged to trace the source of an amino acid that eventually evolves into cell-structured beings such as ourselves (examples of which occasionally go haywire and form monsters) to an all-caring deity whose creations range from microbes to universes, and beyond. Why would such a miracle-worker bother?
Why stand on your head to make a claim that might more convincingly be made, feet squarely grounded.

Incidentally, you might also want to drop the idea that Christ lived in 'first century' Judea. Since the occidental calendar dates from his birth, it sort of 'begs the question', don't you think?

But, from the trust first (and last) perspective, I'm sure I'm missing the point, circular though it remains to be.

I'll believe in Jesus when I see him on CNN. Until then I'd rather try to live a morally responsible life that does not depend on forgiveness of irresponsible acts by an imaginary friend to be able to do it.

AMEN! We can see Almighty God's hand in every aspect of our lives as individuals and as a nation. In the coming election I keep reminding myself of one thing: God's put them in and God takes them out for His purpose and plan.

Craig wrote : "There is *always* another war coming. Predicting another war is like predicting that tomorrow, water will continue to be wet."

WRONG. That is the big difference between an ignorant's point of view against a knowledgeable person's. Without exception, all atheists' views here are based on ignorance. The time will come when the so called "age of enlightenment" (read : age of ignorance) will rule this world and see what kind of trouble they will bring.
Doomsday will be preceeded by that event and it's the primary reason why Doomsday will occur.

The reason why this election is so important to liberal democrats is that they want a president that would stop the war. But sadly for them (or maybe us also), it aint gonna happen. "Nobody is going to the beach yet. There's another war coming." The real question is, who do you want to be president if the U.S battles with Iran or North Korea? The Bible states that it's smaller than China so I'm not quite sure yet which of the two coz the two certainly fits the bill, although I'm inclined to believe that it's Iran.

But there is no question that it's gonna happen. The Bible is not engaged in lies coz it's the book of God. Whatever it says, it's going to happen just as how it describes Hell as real. So beware folks, coz there'll be a lot of burning soon if you're not careful. The burning is real and no doubt about that.

Sorry to dampen the thrill of this election guys. The fact that the event is written on the Bible means it doesn't matter anymore who you vote for coz whether we like it or not, war with Iran or Korea is coming and it is as sure or certain as what Craig has described that, "tomorrow, water will continue to be wet." BULL'S-EYE.

The good part is that there is no date so you can try to delay it. But I doubt it coz if my interpretations are correct, 3 years is way too long for it not to happen.

Craig, satisfied?

Arminius, the Liberal Christian, what does your doctrine say about the coming events? Or are you still as ignorant as the people you want to convert? Also , Im interested on what I said in my previous posts that you find offensive. Are you a Catholic? I don't hate Catholics coz I have many Catholic friends but I hate Catholicism. It's one of the devil's religion.
I have read the King James version Bible and I don't find any passage in there that warrants its burning but thru-out history, burning they did. Only devils hate the Word of God.

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster. Quit deluding yourself about "Jesus" and "God", "sin" and "salvation"; the flying spaghetti monster is real!

This is such a beautiful piece and you are such a beautiful writer!

Zuri For Life!
Lily Seymour

"A long life of historical study and biblical research led me to my belief"

You would have to elaborate for your argument to have any persuasive power at all. Keep in mind that many people have the same feelings as you about a plethora of different "God Men". Your suggestion that the world needs Jesus is, frankly, insulting to people of different faith traditions or none at all. I also find it scary that you are comforted by the idea of an all-powerful, all-knowing god capable of solving all of mankind's problems. I can't help but suspect that anyone with such a conviction would be hypocritical if they didn't focus on spreading their faith to the detriment of every other cause that might vie for their attention.

Your faith might be very powerful in making you feel better about yourself and this world. But it is questionable as to whether it actually makes you a better person, or makes the world a better place.

I never read an Ann Rice book and I expect I never will. I've never been big on McDonald's either and really don't consider it gormet food. Although, I do expect I may eat at McDonalds once every couple of years, I really doubt I'll read an Ann Rice book.

OK I have a few minutes before it's sleepy time....

First I want to express my thanks to those who are sincere in their desire to talk about this issue. I really enjoy the back & forth & I'm genuinely stoked about the discussion. I like the exchange of ideas, especially when it is respectful in nature....there's no need for name calling or derision on either side of this issue. To those that have posited sincere questions to me I will do my best to give an articulate response....but there are a ton of questions & my fingers can only type for so long.

Neal:

Here's my answer to some of your questions. With regards to extra-Biblical sources sure, I have a few example off the top of my head. Josephus is an excellent example, some of what he wrote coincides with what is in the New Testament, as well as Pliny the Elder also affirms the historical content of the New Testament. There are many others & I'm getting tired, a more complete listing has been compiled by the late Dr. Bruce Metzger of Princeton & is also in "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.

Concerning the Big Bang, it is essentially the acceptable theory for the formation of the universe since the Steady State Theory has been disregarded. So while it hasn't been proven to be undisputed fact, you won't find a cosmologist who doesn't believe in it...in fact the evidence is still mount for the Big Bang & since the discovery of Cosmic Background Radiation it is coming in at an exponential rate. There is no real competing theory at this time...the Big Bang stands alone, with more & more evidence point directly at it. So no, you're correct the expanding universe that is eternal isn't a proven fact....but the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics in conjunction with the Big Bang does preclude an infinite universe. The evidence points to that conclusion.

As far as what can & can't be proven.....all you have to do is test the claims the Bible makes with an open mind. Do the same for the Koran, The Book of Mormon....or any other religion. Be open minded & what you'll find is that the Bible is unique....a good resource on this is "I Don't have enough faith to be an atheist" by Dr. Norman Geisler & Frank Turek.

Craig:
The 20+ constants I referenced are called the "Anthropic Principles". I've summarized a few of the more popular ones here which I've gather from numerous authors. Hugh Ross claims he has 108 of them...I'll list 17 just to give you a flavor for what I'm referring to.

1. Oxygen Level – Earth’s atmosphere is comprised of 21% oxygen. The acceptable range oxygen for large mammals is 15%-25%, too low & we suffocate….too high and fires will spontaneously erupt.
2. Atmospheric Transparency – The atmosphere is precisely transparent enough to allow just the right amount of solar radiation to reach the Earth.
3. Moon-Earth Gravitational Interaction – If it were more the tidal effects on the world’s large bodies of water, atmosphere, plate tectonics & rotational period would adversely affect the Earth, as it would be very harsh. Too little orbital changes that would generate climatic instabilities. In either case life on Earth would be negatively affected……if not impossible.
4. Carbon Dioxide Level – Too much & a green house effect would occur….too little & plants wouldn’t be able to maintain photosynthesis & we would suffocate.
5. Gravity – If the gravitational force were just 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000001% different our sun wouldn’t exist…..which means neither would we.
6. Rate of the Universe’s Expansion – If the universe had expanded 1,000,000th more slowly than it did & it would have collapsed back in on itself. Any faster & galaxies wouldn’t have been able to form.
7. The Speed of Light - Numerous other constants rely on the speed of light (299,7942,458 meters/second) & any change in it would alter those constants as well…..adversely more than likely.
8. Water Vapor – The percentage of water vapor in the Earth’s atmosphere is perfect, any less & there’d be an insufficient amount of the greenhouse effect & the temperatures would be too cold to support most life…..any more this place would turn into an oven.
9. Jupiter – Jupiter is the right size, has the perfect circular orbit & in the right place to allow life on Earth. Otherwise some asteroids that constantly barrage Jupiter from the Kuiper belt would make it to Earth. Due to its immense gravitational field, size & orbit Jupiter takes the brunt of these collisions & protects Earth & yet doesn’t pull Earth out of it’s orbit.
10. Earth’s Crust – Any thicker & too much oxygen would be transferred to the atmosphere to support life (see #1). Any thinner & tectonic instability would cause massive earthquakes & volcanic activity that’d be very hostile to life.
11. Earth’s Rotation – The Earth rotates at just the right speed as any longer than 24 hours would generate huge temperature fluctuations from one side of the planet to the other. If it were faster then atmospheric wind velocities would be much greater.
12. Earth’s Tilt – Caused by the precise size & distance of our moon the 23.5 degree axil tilt is perfect as any change in conjunction with the current orbit would cause extreme temperature changes.
13. Earth’s Location – Earth’s circular orbit is in what some call the “planetary habitable zone”. This refers to the acceptable distance away from a star that allows enough heat to support life & liquid water but not too much to boil the water off & thereby roasting the surface of the planet. Earth, with it’s circular orbit, is in the exact right location for this habitable zone.
14. Lighting – Lighting discharging at its current rate produce just the right amount of nitrogen fixing in the soil without causing fires every time.
15. Seismic Activity – The current rate of occurrence produces tectonic uplift which cycles needed nutrients on the ocean’s floor back to the continents. Any more seismic activity would cause mass destruction on the ocean’s floor killing off life that produces those nutrients.
16. Planetary Orbits – Of the roughly 200 planets discovered in other solar systems, all exhibit wildly eccentric orbits around their own sun. The circular orbits of our planets seem to be rare & are not the norm.
17. Uniqueness Of Our Sun – Our rare type of sun emits just the right kind & amount of light/colors, is just the right size, & is highly stable.
a. Top 10% in size of all of the 100 billion known stars in our galaxy (Yellow Dwarf).
b. Most (80%) of the other stars in the Milky Way are Red Dwarfs, which aren’t likely to support any life. This is due several reasons such as a lack of emitting blue spectrum light. Both red & blue are needed for plants to efficiently use photosynthesis. Red Dwarfs are a lot smaller stars which produce far less luminosity & heat, causing a much smaller habitable zone for planets….meaning planets would have to be much closer to their star. Because of this closeness the immense solar flares that are common to Red Dwarfs become a huge problem for any planet in these habitable zones, as the radiation particles that would strip away the atmosphere & huge fluctuations in temperatures that would hinder life come into play. Also any planet in the habitable zone of a Red Dwarf would likely be tidally locked, which prevents the planet from rotating again causing temperature discrepancies between the day & the night side of the planet. Finally, Red Dwarfs don’t emit much UV light which is necessary for young planets to build up oxygen.

Now in regards to your assembling of data by the comparing of snowflakes to DNA. No scientist would begin to touch that analogy as snowflakes design is very simplistic & overly repetitive. There are affinities in play here to be sure but this argument for DNA is soundly dismissed by origin of lifer researchers as DNA is far to complex or show no traces of affinity...in fact I've read in a couple of different place where the exact opposite takes place within DNA? I'm not a molecular biologist (far from it) so I'm forced to acquiesce on this point to some degree. I am very close to a person who has a lot of knowledge on the topic (my wife) & she concurs, although she not yet finished with her degree. Nonetheless....I think it is a weak argument.

I've been to talkorigins before & their arguments seem unconvincing to me....they really stretch & go out of their way to avoid the whole idea of a creator.... My issue with them is the level of faith one must have to buy into some of their arguments is more than I can muster. To ignore & wave away the arguments of specified complexity in such a dismissive fashion doesn't do either side any justice.

This response is already very lengthy, so I'll conclude. Thanks again for the discussion. I may try to check back soon....I'm over worked so my time is scarce..... we'll see.

AtheistArchon, you said:

"And I know that I cannot convince anyone of it by reason, anymore than an atheist can convince me, by reason, that there is no God."

Well. At least you admit it. Most Christians deny that statement with ever fiber of their being.

What other things do you believe in that aren't reasonable? Pots of gold at the ends of rainbows?

My reply:

First, more Christians than you know agree with that statement. You are judging the majority by the noisy minority. I am a believer. Is it reasonable? Of course not. Do I care? Hell no. Do you object? Your problem, not mine. I'm not out to convert. I will gladly explain if asked - politely asked, if you please.

What else do I believe that is not reasonable? Well, for starters, that our world is a beautiful and wonderful place. Is that a reasoned statement? Good grief, no. It is totally subjective. I could go on and on.....

Most of what I see here is finger-pointing, mud slinging, verbal bullying, and self-justification. On both sides of the fence.

Note, before someone starts in on me: I am a liberal Christian, in no way a fundamentalist. I find Spiderman2 totally offensive. But I also find the rabid atheists who accuse my sort with being demented equally offensive. Where is the dialog? Where is the urge to learn from each other?

"And I know that I cannot convince anyone of it by reason, anymore than an atheist can convince me, by reason, that there is no God."

Well. At least you admit it. Most Christians deny that statement with ever fiber of their being.

What other things do you believe in that aren't reasonable? Pots of gold at the ends of rainbows?

That poem was my original. Now it is gone. Yesterday I spent the day at work, no reason to stay here after the escapade. There is no reasoning with you!

Posted on March 24, 2008 20:47

Mike: "Love story? Not quite. Bloody useless death of some ones son, so that so called sins going back to a non existent Adam and Eve "original sin" can be forgiven. Downright sick and paganistic. The only way to prove this nonsense is to die. Right. Not me, I woke up from this mismash of ancient religions recently. Try logic and reason, not fear of death."

~~~~~~~

Mike, are you all good? Do you do everything sweet, nice, politely, with courtesy, and 100% all knowingly right? No of course not.

There needs to be a balance, you do not live a balanced life so stop condemning God for not living what "you" consider a balanced life and start talking to him about it.

You will never know the answer to an issue unless you go to the source and ask.
Comprendo?

keesha, "To 'Stop the Hate': If I were in the business of laying a trap, judging by your response, you fell for it :) I'm not here to 'argue', I'm too busy for that (I still have to clean my bathroom, fold some laundry and buy food for my fish - i think he's obese).

If you take issue with something I wrote, then debunk it."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Debunk it, what school did you graduate from?? Oh, I get it, none.

If your fish is obese thelogical thing to do is to stop feeding it. But then again...........consider the source.

Love story? Not quite. Bloody useless death of some ones son, so that so called sins going back to a non existent Adam and Eve "original sin" can be forgiven. Downright sick and paganistic. The only way to prove this nonsense is to die. Right. Not me, I woke up from this mismash of ancient religions recently. Try logic and reason, not fear of death.

BODHI wrote:--"Now when you take that many of the supernatural events in the New Testament can be verified by some extra-Biblical sources.....I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the Bible."

If it isn't too much trouble, could you please reference some of these "extra-Biblical sources" you cite?

--"Also, the greatest supernatural event of all had no witnesses but we all know it occurred....the formation & apparent birth of the universe."

It would seem that no matter what was happening, or not happening, before TBB, once it started rolling nothing after that instant could be considered "supernatural".

--"It was born out of something.....as prior to it's existence no laws of physics could have existed outside the space-time continuum...."

Although I'm not scientist, you seem to making claims that have not been proven. For instance, when was it proven that the universe hasn't always existed?

--"...what would you call that other than supernatural?"

And therein lies the rub... Supernatural claims, because they are inherently untestable, non-predictive and uncorroborative, are pretty much whatever anyone wants to say they are. If someone wants to plug in the Christian god prior to the "Big Bang" then fine, but this same person cannot object if someone else wants to plug in some other, perhaps malevolent deity, or a pixie, or a brain in vat. In the supernatural realm it seems it's pretty much all good.

Aloha

Gentlemen I would sincerely love to continue this conversation but the day is over & it's time for me to pick up the kids...maybe another day.....

Dave wrote : "Which parts of the bible does he think are metaphorical, and which parts does Spidey think describes things that really happened? Or is all the bible metaphor to Spidey? "

Simple Dave, I always ask God. And gladly for me, He answers. But you have to be patient coz it took me years to get some of the answers. And honestly, I've gone thru "rough roads" before God answered.

Boasting aside, the metaphors in the Bible are so intelligently made that it makes me believe that God is it's true author and not man. It's very accurate and clear as it describes the current events we have now and the things to come and yet so cleverly disguised to avoid being interpreted easily.

By God's grace I know all the coming wars which are about to happen. Also the victors and all the slain. In terms of casualty, WW2 would be a piece of cake.

The God who made those awesome metaphors spoke also of eternal Hell. Most people don't understand it's concept but it's there.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". Read the Bible yourself and learn of Him directly as I did. There are a lot of false religions that will send you to Hell. Don't believe everything they say. Verify it yourself.

"And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

HEAR YEA, HEAR YEA !!

I've notice that a lot of atheists' posts here are based on PURE IGNORANCE. Im just awed of their PURE IGNORANCE. They don't know THE COMING DAYS OF THIS EARTH and what awaits them because of their PURE IGNORANCE.

This world is coming to it's almost near end due to the REIGN OF IGNORANCE.

"The pigs are slowly building their own fireplace to be roasted by the same fire they built."

"Oh what blindness, what lack of undersatnding!"

BODHI:

Regarding "In the beginning" (note you'll have to put http:// in front of the links below as this site rejects post with more then a couple. I have also post it on my blog at http://atheistgods.blogspot.com/2008/03/open-mic.html)

Did god create everything?

Not in the bible. One only need to read Genesis 1:1 - 1:10 to see that there was a water universe of chaos preexisting that god created the heaven and earth within.

The cosmogony written is Genesis (and else where) clearly has elements from the older Enuma elish mixed with other myths of the time..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enuma_elish
www.infidelguy.com/heaven_sky.htm

As is the "Firmament" which science has long since proven to be false, which is backed up by the Father religion (Jews) as well as it's bastard child Christianity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament
www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=807&letter=C
www.newadvent.org/cathen/06079b.htm

Here's something we don't want to miss. Dawkins is coming to town.

Dawkins to lecture in US Bible Belt
By Jonathan Brown

Richard Dawkins, the scourge of pseudo-science, Christianity and homeopathy, is to step up his campaign for rational thinking with a series of high-profile lectures deep in the heart of the American Bible Belt.

The Oxford University professor travels to the US next year as part of his battle to promote evolutionary theory in the face of a backlash against the concept in the world's most-advanced industrial nation.

He is to address a series of 2,000-seater venues in the American heartlands. The tour will coincide with the publication of his best-seller The God Delusion in paperback in the US in January and act as a prelude to a series of global events to mark the bicentenary of Charles Darwin in 2009.

Professor Dawkins has charities in his own name on both sides of the Atlantic to promote reason and science. He has said that it is in the US, where 50 per cent of the population believes the universe is less than 10,000 years old, that the Enlightenment is most threatened.

However, he said he did not expect audiences to be too tough on his atheist beliefs and that many thanked him for speaking out. "The Bible Belt is a lot less monolithic than it portrays itself. I have a feeling that there is rather a large groundswell of people who agree with me," he said.

Gad:
In regards to your thoughts to "In the beginning"...your incorrect, as many pantheistic religions believed in an eternal universe. So the Judeo-Christian thoughts on the universe having a starting point are unique in many respects.

While you're correct in saying Einstein believed in an static universe at first, & even came up with his "fudge factor" to prove it after first postulating relativity...his "fudge factor" was proven to be incorrect within a few years (I've read in several places his error was dividing by zero). After his initial postulating was proven correct & that the universe is expanding his belief in a static universe was discarded. Sir Eddington was so disgusted by the thought of an expanding universe he wrote on several occasions wishing out loud against it....but eventually was persuaded by both Einstein's original calculations & Edwin Hubble's discoveries in the "red shift" of distant galaxies...thereby proving these galaxies were moving away from us. Einstein's original calculations predicted expansion but he hated the implications of what that meant...so his bias for a static universe led him to incorrectly revise calculations...he died though believing in a dynamic expanding universe.

Next point, CMBR points toward a singularity. It points to the finite universe....a beginning. Many would think that it bolsters the idea of design, I know I do. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that CMBR makes the Bible story a myth?

Next in regards to supernatural history. To some extent I'll grant this point to you...but if the (66 different authors I think) writers & authors of the Bible who's authorship spans 2000+ years, took such great care in recording what you describe as natural history...then in the very least you have to give them some benefit for their apparent honesty. Now when you take that many of the supernatural events in the New Testament can be verified by some extra-Biblical sources.....I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the Bible. Also, the greatest supernatural event of all had no witnesses but we all know it occurred....the formation & apparent birth of the universe. It was born out of something.....as prior to it's existence no laws of physics could have existed outside the space-time continuum....what would you call that other than supernatural?

In regards to your definition of faith ("That's way it is call faith, belief in the absence of, or contrary to fact and reason.") I think your definition is wrong....faith isn't the belief in something that can't is contrary to facts....it's the exact opposite. Faith is the belief in that which all evidence leads yet can't be proven. All of the evidence to the origin of the universe points toward the Big Bang....we weren't there to see it happen but the facts gathered so far say that an incredibly dense singularity went boom....faith says, "I didn't see it but all signs point to the Bing Bang."

Your point on God & his desire to allow free will ("They why does the bible show him repeatedly killing or having killed millions upon millions of people for not doing or even knowing what wanted?") I guess we're not reading the same Bible because I'm not sure what you're talking about....the God of the Bible doesn't do these types of things. I can say that the Bible records a lot of things, even things that are against God's will & that can't be confused with what he wants. Many bad things have been recorded that were anti-God, yet they were recorded.

You seem to be genuinely troubled by the killings of innocents as am I (& most Christians). I wonder if you're just as troubled by the murder of millions of innocents that have occurred in the last 100 years alone by atheists? Maybe you've never thought about it in that sense but Pol Pot, Stalin, Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, & Ho-chi Mihn were all atheists....were there crimes just as bad as atheism is directly to blame for their murderous actions?

So you reject free will for the state of the world? Did your DNA dictate you say that? As you apparently have no choice in the actions you take...do you dance to the tune that fate has already sealed for you? So if free-will is a farce ,then all has been decided or could it be possible that those who don't agree with you just don't have it in their make-up to be able to discern your obvious intellect? Maybe you're right & free-will has no place in the state of our current affairs & this argument is for the weak minded?

On a final note, if you truly want a discussion of beliefs, do your best not to be condescending or dismissive of those you disagree with. Don't assign motives to someone just because you don't find their argument compelling...be civil. I'm not repeating free will as an option for pain & suffering because someone else said it, rather I find the argument to very compelling. I should like to ask you if free will can be dismissed so readily then why is it that pain & suffering matters at all? If a genetic pre-destination is all we have to hope for then where dod this idea of good or bad come from? And what's more.....why should it matter....

A preacher once went to proselytize under the bridge where a bunch of homeless, junkies, sick and disenfranchised members of society hung out. The preacher seeing the kind of hell on earth these individuals lived in every day decided to show them a picture of a mansion. He said to the group "Believe in Jesus your savior and repent of your sins and your next home will look even better than these in paradise". Many of them raised their hands in acceptance and the preacher left feeling accomplished. Before leaving he took a picture of the run down bridge and of his raggedy looking dwellers.
Next day the minister had an appointment with one of the richest men in town. He walks in and inmediately asks the rich man to repent of his sins and believe in Jesus or else, raising the photograph of the run down bridge, "this is how your next home will look like when you die and spend eternity in hell". Scared to death, the rich man accepts the good lord Jesus. Amen

A preacher once went to proselytize under the bridge where a bunch of homeless, junkies, sick and disenfranchised members of society hung out. The preacher seeing the kind of hell on earth these individuals lived in every day decided to show them a picture of a mansion. He said to the group "Believe in Jesus your savior and repent of your sins and your next home will look even better than these in paradise". Many of them raised their hands in acceptance and the preacher left feeling accomplished. Before leaving he took a picture of the run down bridge and of his raggedy looking dwellers.
Next day the minister had an appointment with one of the richest men in town. He walks in and inmediately asks the rich man to repent of his sins and believe in Jesus or else, raising the photograph of the run down bridge, "this is how your next home will look like when you die and spend eternity in hell". Scared to death, the rich man accepts the good lord Jesus. Amen

Let's get some terminology straight here, please. There is but one cosmological constant:
"In physical cosmology, the cosmological constant (usually denoted by the Greek capital letter lambda: Λ) was proposed by Albert Einstein as a modification of his original theory of general relativity to achieve a stationary universe. Einstein abandoned the concept after the observation of the Hubble redshift indicated that the universe might not be stationary. However, the discovery of cosmic acceleration in the 1990s has renewed interest in a cosmological constant."
- This from Wikipedia, and it is a well documented article, and therefore most probably safe.

Another Wikipedia article says that there are 18 basic physical laws in the universe. Perhaps that is what was meant.

Overall, this particular blog has exhibited more name-calling, general mud slinging, and even outright hatred than anything I have ever seen. Small wonder that the world is in such a sorry state if we can't even hold a civil conversation.

spiderman2:
"Nobody's going to the beach yet. There's another war coming."

There is *always* another war coming. Predicting another war is like predicting that tomorrow, water will continue to be wet.

Can you tell us the exact date the next war will start?

The clip contains a rebuttal to Cameron's "theory" of the eye. Watch it and learn.

bodhi wrote:
"1. What is the source of all Laws of Physics?"

We don't know... yet.

"2. Given the Big Bang appears to have definitely happened, what is the explanation for the source of the singularity?"

We don't know... yet.

"3. How can you explain the extreme set of fortuitous circumstances that the inhabitants of Earth find themselves in? The 20+ cosmological constants that exist at just the right amounts for life on this planet to thrive?"

You're proceeding from a false assumption. The 20+ constants (and where did you get that number) are only needed for life *as we know it*. If the constants were different, there might be some other form of life that we can't even imagine. And if you're going to argue that the universe is fine-tuned for life, then why is the vast majority of it cold, empty vacuum and most of the rest of it hot plasma?

You also have to consider the anthropic principle, which says: If we didn't exist, it would be very difficult for us to marvel at how the universe was made for us. Consider this: Is it a sign of God's intervention that fish are always surrounded by water?

"4. How do atheists explain the assembling of massive amounts of information within DNA without an an assembler of said information?"

The same way we explain the assembling of massive amounts of water molecules into a beautiful intricate snowflake: chemistry and physics.

"5. On the topic of design & DNA, what is your explanation for the specified complexity that is seen with various mechanisms such as blood clotting, the human eye (or any eye for that matter) the bacterial flagellum?"

Blood clotting:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB200_2.html

Eyes:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB301.html

Flagellum:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB200_1.html

bodhi:

"Genesis starts with "In the beginning"

Is and was used in the same sense and context as once upon a time. There was nothing scientific about it, just the intuitive idea that things/people etc. came from somewhere, i.e. had a beginning.

"Turns out Einstein proved them wrong with his Theory of Relativity."

LOL! Einstein did not believe in the Big Bang, he believed in a static universe model. Religion has rotted your mind (assuming you have one), read something besides superstition and educate your self.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_universe

"The existence of Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation has pretty much solidified the Big Bang,"

And that the bible story is myth!

"No other book has the credentials or the reputation for accuracy in the field of archeology that the Bible does"

For natural history, but no provable thing of supernatural history!

"There's nothing in my faith that precludes science...nothing."

That's way it is call faith, belief in the absence of, or contrary to fact and reason...........

" I would argue that God isn't interested in making anyone do something they don't want to do."

They why does the bible show him repeatedly killing or having killed millions upon millions of people for not doing or even knowing what wanted?

"Free will is explicitly taught by Jesus & is featured throughout the Bible"

Free will is an absurd argument to try and justify the state of things in reference to an all loving god. As soon as some one says free will I know they have no idea what they are saying and are just repeating what others have said because they think it sounds goods and required no effort on there part.

The essence of science and scientific thought today does nothing whatsoever to confirm religious convictions regarding the 'created' universe or the liklihood of a creator or intelligent designer. The fact that this particular universe may have had a beginning only means that other universes are either beginning or ending somewhere else - in the past, the present, or in the future.

There is no reason to imagine that the Meta-verse is not in fact infinite and self-existing, with no beginning or end. It's quite possible that an infinite number of universes are currently co-existing at this very moment....read 'the many universes' theory.

Quantum mechanics has established both the rule of Uncertainty and the Reality of Non-locality. Be sure and look into their meaning. What may lay beyond the apparent universe is quite unknown - as are the origins of everything you see before you.

Believe anything you want, because people always do that very thing. The fiery faith of the true believer is ever so convincing - to other true believers.

Passing this off as 'the truth' is another matter altogether, and this is what the religious faithful inevitably do - that of course is their first mistake.

J:, unfortunately I'm at work & can't watch the YouTube clip now, but even though I think Kirk Cameron is a swell fellow (even though our theology isn't the same) I wouldn't use him as a source. Rather, I'd be much more comfortable with Dr. Michael Behe talking about specified complexity, especially when discussing the alleged evolution of the eye.

The faithful like to point to the complexity of the human eye as evidence of a Creator force, but, of course, they haven't actually researched what is known about the evolution of the eye.

Here is a start -- and you get to see Kirk Cameron taken to task, too!

(about 2 mins. in)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5J0cSnYnFg&feature=related

L.Kurt Engelhart:
What I meant by "acceptable" is atheists will often demand proof of God but then give a weak or trite answer for their faith in atheism. So what I mean by "acceptable" is it has to be a legitimate explanation...not some far fetched theory that has no scientific backing or merit.

Either the universe is eternal & thereby without a creator....or the universe has a finite beginning & was created. There is no middle ground. The Big Bang argues for a beginning & all of the evidence of the Big Bang points toward a Creator.

It is possible to leave Jesus, to ignore Him and pretend He doesn't exist. But He never leaves you, never stops trying to bring His children back to Him. Anne, I am so glad you listened to His call. You testimony is such a shining example of how God can restore anyone from anything.

Keep the faith and continue to write the words God has given you.

Posted on March 24, 2008 13:50

bodhi:

"you must come up with an acceptable explanation"

Yes, bohdi, that is the problem. We have not yet discovered a mutually satisfying answer to the question of what is acceptable. Many people are dead set against allowing the answer to evolve. It will evolve, nevertheless, but many will suffer in the process.

E-Favorite:
The belief in Christ or as you call him "a Jewish carpenter, really the son of God, who is born of a virgin, crucified, died for our sins, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven and gives us eternal life if we believe in him" is a much different subject than scientific basis in a belief in a Creator....so I addressed it as such.

Your faith is inspiring, as much of what you have prescribed as "myth" is actually proven fact...Genesis starts with "In the beginning..." for a couple of hundred years scientists argued the universe was eternal....that there was no beginning. Turns out Einstein proved them wrong with his Theory of Relativity. The existence of Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation has pretty much solidified the Big Bang, so at least the first line of the Bible is true. Any unbiased look into other claims that Bible has would also find merit as well.

Next I'd say that archeologists within the the Middle East & the Mediterranean don't share your views on the accuracy of the Bible (Old or New Testaments) as it is the singular most complete documentation for life in that region as well as best map on where to find what has been lost to antiquity. No other book has the credentials or the reputation for accuracy in the field of archeology that the Bible does.

Your statement, "Whatever came before the big bang is likely science that we do not yet understand." is pure blind faith. If anyone else said such a thing you'd wonder if they were a religious zealot. For example if I started saying that eventually there'd be evidence that everyone would be able to see that would prove the existence in the Great Pumpkin...you'd laugh. Rightfully so I might add....well your statement is equivocal to that. The belief in a Designer of our universe has evidence, it has merit & I embrace science without hesitation in proclaiming my faith. There's nothing in my faith that precludes science...nothing. The Bible & it claims can be researched & you're free to follow where the evidence leads you, but a statement such as yours that everything will be explained someday....can't be justified by or sort of science...it is an opinion, not fact.

Finally, I would argue that God isn't interested in making anyone do something they don't want to do. Free will is explicitly taught by Jesus & is featured throughout the Bible...so if you really don't want to be around God he will allow you to be separated from him.....i.e. Hell. Hell is a state or place not for punishment, rather it is where people who do not want any part of God & as such God respect that decision & allows their choice to be exercised. Now Hell is not a good thing, but anything where God is not a part of can't be good, so yes, it will be a place/state of suffering. But if you're forced to go to Heaven & be in the presence of a God that you've spent a lifetime of rejecting...wouldn't that too be torture?

You're claims of myth are without evidence or backing. BTW, Christians are the founders of the scientific method & we welcome all open minded investigations.

ef, "it certainly isn’t that mean old testament God who waited millions of years after the big bang to send his son to earth - to be murdered - to save us. Science has provided much more imaginative and benign ways of taking care of ourselves."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God is not mean. I am very sorry that you see him that way. If I could help you in any way understand that he is not mean I would.

I am not in the market to deceive, lie, or have the majority of the vote here. What I am in the market for is in any way possible help to lessen the burden of pain on others by telling the truth.

I have been misled, lied to, and hurt very badly by a so called friend, which I did not appreciate. But people have negative traits that bring pain on others, sometimes on purpose and sometimes by mistake. Hurting is no fun and sometimes the pain seems like it never goes away completely. I am on my way to forgiving him and hope that we can mend our friendship. But, I do not want to hurt anyone purposely or by default if at all possible.

God through his son Jesus Christ has always been there for me, never leaving me alone. God never promised us that we would not be hurt or feel pain, but what he does promise is that he will help us through it, as you and I would want anyone to do as our friend.

Now you might say that I m not sure what I know as truth is really the truth and I would say that you are right. But we all are in that same boat and personal experiences do help people sometimes.

So if I can say this, with all due respect, God is real to my broken heart and has been there to comfort me in the lonely nights. Do I wish he was tangible, yes, and yes again, but I would rather go through my pain and hurt with him as he is then go through it alone, without him.

Jack Robinson, perhaps you've misunderstood the message of Christ, as it isn't about avoiding bad things for the eternal good thing (afterlife) as to why you should believe in Christianity. After all, this would take away from the idea of freedom of choice that God gives us, rather it is a relationship that is focused on love & service.

Christians never claimed to be immune from any bad thing, Christ himself predicted his undeserved gruesome death so how or why would we assume that we would escape pain when it affects the entire world equally?

Did you get married just to avoid paying higher taxes? Probably not. A person enters marriage because of a friendship with their spouse & that friendship transforms their outlook on life....for example it makes irresponsible young men more responsible.

In fact, Jesus promised those who followed him that suffering was guaranteed....so we accept it. Also, Christians don't denounce science.....we embrace it!!! I have a bachelors degree & would love to dig more into Astronomy & Physics if I had the opportunity. Science is Christianity best friend.....which is why so many atheists hate the inevitability of what the Big Bang infers....

To Bodhi: And what do any of your “reasonable explanations for our existence” have to do with an ancient story of a Jewish carpenter, really the son of God, who is born of a virgin, crucified, died for our sins, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven and gives us eternal life if we believe in him; If not, then eternal damnation?

Nothing – these are old stories, obviously myth, with no scientific evidence to back them up and totally unrelated to the Big Bang, the “fortuitous circumstances” for life on earth and DNA. Whatever came before the big bang is likely science that we do not yet understand.

It certainly isn’t that mean old testament God who waited millions of years after the big bang to send his son to earth - to be murdered - to save us. Science has provided much more imaginative and benign ways of taking care of ourselves.

Jack Robinson:

"Christianity, like all religions, promises huge rewards (eternal life) for it's members, and either eternal suffering or at best non-existence for members of rival religions, or no religion at all.

People are becoming more secular because they have seen with their own eyes the triumph of science, and the worthlessness of empty superstition. The Black Death killed proportionately as many priests as peasants - prayers did not stop it, where modern medicine would have.

Science and medicine will defeat disease - not fairy stories and prayer. Let the scientists have their hybrids, and we can consign genetic diseases to history. Along with superstition."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Robinson, you are only one opinion out of 100 of thousands. If you hang around people that agree with you, most likely you will get the same opinion as yours.

Try hanging around and surveying Christians to get a "well rounded" view of the world. It will broaden your horizons much.

Christianity, like all religions, promises huge rewards (eternal life) for it's members, and either eternal suffering or at best non-existence for members of rival religions, or no religion at all.

People are becoming more secular because they have seen with their own eyes the triumph of science, and the worthlessness of empty superstition. The Black Death killed proportionately as many priests as peasants - prayers did not stop it, where modern medicine would have.

Science and medicine will defeat disease - not fairy stories and prayer. Let the scientists have their hybrids, and we can consign genetic diseases to history. Along with superstition.

Jimbo.:

yoyo;

"Excellent posts. Its good to see that all posters are not simple minded superstitionists who believe in the patently ridiculous notions of their very ancient ancestors. Hopefully,this will be the century that will put the supernatural nonsense of religions finally into history's garbage can.

As a species we get smarter all the time. Religion cannot survive our increasingly greater access to knowledge.

God ideas are thousands of years out of date, and are foolish and dangerous, as September 11,2001 showed us quite clearly.

I'm encouraged bt the sheer number of intelligent responses from nonbelievers on this thread. We are definitely moving in the right direction."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are a fool if you think that Christianity is headed to or going to be a "religions finally into history's garbage can." Good luck with that hope; you are going to need it.

Isn't it ironic how the overwhelming post on this particular thread were from Christian believers but in the mind of a non-believer such as yours you see it through your eyes and not through the eyes of truth.

Check out the posts from yesterday, almost all the post were from believers in God and Christ, sorry that that bothers you so much, but get used to it, it is "life in the real world."

Your post is not even reasonable, in fact it is so immature I feel like I am reading a "teenagers" competitive edge such as "we won" type of premises. So sad, I pity you.

To the atheists who have belittled Anne's article or Christianity as a whole, I ask you to ponder & answer the following as you too have to have reasonable explanations for our existence:

1. What is the source of all Laws of Physics?
2. Given the Big Bang appears to have definitely happened, what is the explanation for the source of the singularity?
3. How can you explain the extreme set of fortuitous circumstances that the inhabitants of Earth find themselves in? The 20+ cosmological constants that exist at just the right amounts for life on this planet to thrive?
4. How do atheists explain the assembling of massive amounts of information within DNA without an an assembler of said information? Again you must come up with an acceptable explanation & since randomness & chance has been ruled out by nearly all origin of life scientists you can't use those.
5. On the topic of design & DNA, what is your explanation for the specified complexity that is seen with various mechanisms such as blood clotting, the human eye (or any eye for that matter) the bacterial flagellum?

Since true faith is the use of evidence to back up what is unable to be substantiated (i.e. since no one was around to witness the Big Bang we use the best available evidence to discern the truth) what are your explanation for chaos being ordered & for something coming from nothing?

I've always been in awe at the amount blind faith that atheists exhibit....especially in light of recent scientific evidence.

yoyo;

Excellent posts. Its good to see that all posters are not simple minded superstitionists who believe in the patently ridiculous notions of their very ancient ancestors. Hopefully,this will be the century that will put the supernatural nonsense of religions finally into history's garbage can.

As a species we get smarter all the time. Religion cannot survive our increasingly greater access to knowledge.

God ideas are thousands of years out of date, and are foolish and dangerous, as September 11,2001 showed us quite clearly.

I'm encouraged bt the sheer number of intelligent responses from nonbelievers on this thread. We are definitely moving in the right direction.

E.Ponsonby - Smallpiece, "In the 21st century I find it outrageous that people still don't get it.
There are no gods except in the imaginations of the gullible."

To you maybe, but not to many, many, others

But don't take it personal, I don't

.....cheers

Godfree Mann:

George Carlin, You Are All Diseased.

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you.

-- George Carlin Politically Incorrect, May 29, 1997

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Too bad, George Carlin will never see God and in his beauty and greatness.

yoyo:

to Not The Clinging Type..

I agree with you. Faith means never having to make sense.
Religion has all the veracity of Astrology and palm reading,
and is way past its 'best before' date.

Down with irrationality! Down with prehistoric mumbo jumbo.

Lets hear it for reason and common sense!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay, I'll give you the reason and common sense that makes sense. Maybe some of the other too, but I want to believe how I want and what works for me and give you the latitude to do the same, agreed?

You are not being a smart as* are you?

For the religious who say atheists hate god,
I have to respond by saying that atheists hate god like
they hate the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny.

I mean what's to hate? One can hardly hate what one believes is fiction.

As an atheist, it makes more sense to me that gods are all make believe,
like Thor was make believe and Apollo and Aphrodite were make believe.
Nobody today believes that those old gods ever existed.
But once upon a time, they were thought to actually exist.
Just like many think the current god actually exists.

In the 21st century I find it outrageous that people still don't get it.
There are no gods except in the imaginations of the gullible.

to Not The Clinging Type..

I agree with you. Faith means never having to make sense.
Religion has all the veracity of Astrology and palm reading,
and is way past its 'best before' date.

Down with irrationality! Down with prehistoric mumbo jumbo.

Lets hear it for reason and common sense!

Anne,

Do you realize that the condition you honestly describe may sound to others, like myself, as symptoms of an obsession bordering on serious mental problems? What if I made a similar confession to you but the object of my faith was Santa Claus? That might be acceptable in a child but not in an experienced adult. My explanation of why you or others would knowingly adopt such an obsession is that the world is otherwise too evil to survive in. I'm glad that my world isn't like that.

George Carlin, You Are All Diseased.

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you.

-- George Carlin Politically Incorrect, May 29, 1997

Religions are a human response to the fear of death and nothingness that awaits us all when our lives end.

If we never died...if death didn't exist...we wouldn't need religion.We wouldn't need to waste time
sucking up to God in order to get into Heaven. We wouldn't need Heaven.We would prefer to stay alive on earth.

But of course we DO die,and it's hard to get our heads around that grim idea. Death is scary. We would rather not think about it,or talk about it.And we'd prefer our kids not hear about it,either.

Enter Religion,offering eternal life, God, and fear management.
All you have to do is believe and your problems are over .You are not going to die."You have our word".
Be good,pray and read your Bible and heaven awaits. Just have Faith even though it's totally irrational.

Believe the BS and be saved from death.

Religion is for the fearful and deluded.

anon, "All of the above is probably overly simplistic but it's the way I see things, and so as not to have strayed way way off topic, it's also why I don't want to see politics where atheists attempt to field an atheist candidate simply because he/she is an atheist. That isn't progress. It's just the same old same old."
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree, it takes out the anticipation of the differences in one another. Hell, I don't want to predict my soon to be husband's actions every time we have sex, no fun there.

I want him to surprise me, even if it is just in the different way he kisses me this time round. He can't touch me differently though, his touch is and always will be new and exciting each time, not because it is different but because it is "his" touch. To me the feel of his touch will always be new and exciting.

Did I get your point?? A bit off topic, sorry. I need to go home now.........

Religious belief, of any kind, becomes by definition, closed, separative and ultimately violent. Once you take the first step into childish irrational belief systems, any subsequent violent behavior can be justified or, just as bad, tolerated.
The question is not whether there are "nice" Christians, Muslim or Jews, and "bad" versions.
The question is why do you think you need belief? Why do you want to follow? Why do you need a book or a priest to be generous and kind?
Believers believe out of fear or greed. They want to avoid something or get something.
All the money spent supporting preachers, priests, rabbis, imams, ayatollahs, churches, mosques and synagogues could be spent directly helping people. Believers give because they want to get, which is not giving. It’s a business transaction.
All the talk of tolerance and compassion is babble to make believers feel better.
It’s like prayer. It’s a placebo. It lets you think you’ve done something when you’ve done exactly nothing but talk to the air.
Terrorists at least do something, ugly, hateful and despicable as they are. The good news is, terrorists are revealing religious belief for what it is. The Christians tried terrorism during the Crusades. Now the Muslims are taking their turn at displaying the ignorance of religious belief.
You want to do something. Take the first step. Walk away from religious belief. Life is better on the sane side.

To Spiderman2,

Whether Id or do not believe in a god is not the point here. Nor do I blame a God.

But I do have a problem with people who claim that there is al knowing god who’s power is limitless.
If God is al knowing then he is aware of every massacre, al torture, al evil that happens and al the suffering that people experience.
If God is al powerful and can do everything, that means that he can prevent every single event that causes this suffering.
I don’t have to understand God reasons, but I don’t have to because it doesn’t matter if I understand or not. According to these people if something bad happens then clearly it is because God decided that it should, because he knew about it and since he’s al powerful could have stopped it, but he didn’t.

The nasty side of claiming that God is al knowing and al powerful is that you say to every victim of rape and torture and to every one who looses a loved one be it by murder or accident that it happened because it was the will of God.

So there they go telling parents who lost a child in an accident or some one who’s girlfriend was raped and killed that it was the will of God. God the supreme good that rules over everything has ruled that it was the right thing to happen.
If that’s not rubbing salt in the wounds I don’t know what is.

I don’t like people who say that there’s an al knowing al powerful God, because they ad to the suffering of people who have already suffered more than enough.

You mean not faith like this?

Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

The bible says Moses got 32,00 virgins to be divided as booty among those who fought. It is estimated that the Israelites would had to have killed over 100,000 women, pregnant women, male babies and little boys to yield such haul.

So this is a different kind of faith then the faith that flies planes into buildings?

yoyo, "I am prejudiced against religion because I know the history of religion, and it is the history of human misery and of black crimes".

"I have written on religion and science and have never made any secret of the fact that I am an atheist. My feeling is, quite simply, that if there is a God, he has done such a bad job that He isn't worth discussing"."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was going to respond but after seeing the "job" you did with writing your comment I decided that, you or your work is not worth discussing, end of story!

It seems to me that religious systems boil down to a few fairly simple common components. I use the term religious systems somewhat loosely, because this is just as true of groups as large as nations down to groups as small as mafia families.

You have a leadership who claims to have a direct line to the "higher authority," either literally (as with messianic leaders), figuratively (where the higher authority is a particular ideological, tribal, or racial/ethnic identity), or both.

Next you have a faux moral system where a few common sense truisms are intermingled with far more dubious claims that equate morality with group/ideological fealty.

Then you have a dehumanizing of members of competing tribes, ideologies, races, and so on which is cemented by an indoctrinated persecution complex intended to create fear of the "others," and equate them with the opposites of the faux moral system. Non-believers become heretics, liberal become commies, war opponents become traitors. All of which points to how easily led people become when their sense of self and their relationship to others is wrapped up in their tribal identity.

Then you have ritual and symbols designed to both reinforce the group identity and the link between the pseudo-moral system and group identity, like worship, ritual prayer, ceremonies, pledges of allegiance, rites of passage, flags, crosses, and so on.

Put those all together and apply them on a population and what you get are loyal drones ready to do the bidding of the tribe or nation without much critical thought and who'll feel good about doing it. They'll be able to do incredibly immoral things while feeling that doing them obediently makes them more moral.

I'm not sure I believe that people are smart enough to have designed religious systems (in which I include nationalism) with these things in mind, but I think it's inarguable that this is how they've come to be applied. It's also why I have no love of them and believe that humanity must work towards dismantling them, and must teach our children a morality and ethical system based on rationalism, critical thinking, and humanism, and individualism.

All of the above is probably overly simplistic but it's the way I see things, and so as not to have strayed way way off topic, it's also why I don't want to see politics where atheists attempt to field an atheist candidate simply because he/she is an atheist. That isn't progress. It's just the same old same old.

But I'm sure that if something came up to suggest
otherwise,atheists would be interested,and some might
change their minds if it was justified by evidence of some kind.
Atheism is not something one clings to for dear life,like one might cling to religion.
It's just an honest inability (or refusal) to
believe something that seems so highly unlikely.

Suggestions is what we have given time and time again to Atheist, but what you are looking for is impossible proof. Christianty and belief in God is by faith, you know that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Faith is not tangible. And what you call “cling to religion,” is loving the God we serve, there is a difference. I enjoy my walk with God and the things that we share in prayer.

I don’t care if someone else doesn’t want that, it is okay, it is not for everyone. People do believe and worship God differently, hence different types of churches.

Refusal to believe is your choice and it is between you and God, period.

It seems to me that religious systems boil down to a few fairly simple common components. I use the term religious systems somewhat loosely, because this is just as true of groups as large as nations down to groups as small as mafia families.

You have a leadership who claims to have a direct line to the "higher authority," either literally (as with messianic leaders), figuratively (where the higher authority is a particular ideological, tribal, or racial/ethnic identity), or both.

Next you have a faux moral system where a few common sense truisms are intermingled with far more dubious claims that equate morality with group/ideological fealty.

Then you have a dehumanizing of members of competing tribes, ideologies, races, and so on which is cemented by an indoctrinated persecution complex intended to create fear of the "others," and equate them with the opposites of the faux moral system. Non-believers become heretics, liberal become commies, war opponents become traitors. All of which points to how easily led people become when their sense of self and their relationship to others is wrapped up in their tribal identity.

Then you have ritual and symbols designed to both reinforce the group identity and the link between the pseudo-moral system and group identity, like worship, ritual prayer, ceremonies, pledges of allegiance, rites of passage, flags, crosses, and so on.

Put those all together and apply them on a population and what you get are loyal drones ready to do the bidding of the tribe or nation without much critical thought and who'll feel good about doing it. They'll be able to do incredibly immoral things while feeling that doing them obediently makes them more moral.

I'm not sure I believe that people are smart enough to have designed religious systems (in which I include nationalism) with these things in mind, but I think it's inarguable that this is how they've come to be applied. It's also why I have no love of them and believe that humanity must work towards dismantling them, and must teach our children a morality and ethical system based on rationalism, critical thinking, and humanism, and individualism.
Religious superstition may be the death of us all.

Matthew 5:
10 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

--

Ms. Rice, welcome home. May God give you the strength to face your insulters and persecuters with faith, hope, and charity.

Dear Anne

Thank you so much for the reflections on your personal Faith odessey.

How wonderful that it is front page of the Post!!
(at least the on-line Post)

THE LORD IS RISEN - - - HE IS RISEN INDEED!!!!!

MayorOfNW:

"congrats on finding Jesus lady, maybe us atheists would be less critical if you kept it to yourself. If I find Jesus will he help me make millions of dollars selling books to provincial american rubes which distract them from concrete ways of improving their lives? something about a rich man entering heaven, camel through a needle -- bah, forget it. you all started worshipping the golden calf a long time ago."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You have a lot of nerve. You Atheist/pagans hoard almost every forum on this site and post negative condemning, poisonous, comments about believers in God.

Atheists lie when they say that they do not hate God, in fact that is an understatement!

Many commenters say that atheism is also a faith;
that atheists need to have faith in atheism.
Not true.
I am an atheist,but I don't necessarily feel I need
to have faith in atheism.It is not a belief system.
Its a refusal to believe an idea that seems unlikely;
the idea of a supernatural god and a
supernatural world to go to when we die.
I could,of course,be wrong.Maybe there is a god.
No atheist claims to know there is no god.
i think we generally say only that we DON'T believe
there is a god. Or that we DO believe there is NO god.
Either way,we don't buy into it.
But I'm sure that if something came up to suggest
otherwise,atheists would be interested,and some might
change their minds if it was justified by evidence of some kind.
Atheism is not something one clings to for dear life,like one might cling to religion.
It's just an honest inability (or refusal) to
believe something that seems so highly unlikely.

Wow!! Are you all mad about what she said or are you just mad that Anne Rice said it???

Dave wrote : "Which parts of the bible does he think are metaphorical, and which parts does Spidey think describes things that really happened? Or is all the bible metaphor to Spidey? "

Simple Dave, I always ask God. And gladly for me, He answers. But you have to be patient coz it took me years to get some of the answers. And honestly, I've gone thru "rough roads" before God answered.

Boasting aside, the metaphors in the Bible are so intelligently made that it makes me believe that God is it's true author and not man. It's very accurate and clear as it describes the current events we have now and the things to come and yet so cleverly disguised to avoid being interpreted easily.

By God's grace I know all the coming wars which are about to happen. Also the victors and all the slain. In terms of casualty, WW2 would be a piece of cake.

The God who made those awesome metaphors spoke also of eternal Hell. Most people don't understand it's concept but it's there.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". Read the Bible yourself and learn of Him directly as I did. There are a lot of false religions that will send you to Hell. Don't believe everything they say. Verify it yourself.

"And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

meg:

"Faith is nothing to brag about."
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Correction, the God kind of faith by the Greek definition is the “cancellation of all natural laws.” To believe in what is impossible with man is possible with God. That is why in scripture it says that “all things are possible with God” because God is not subject to natural laws. What you describe is a cultish type of faith built on the premises of evil.

Not your kind of faith, perhaps you should research more about faith before comment so negatively about it.

congrats on finding Jesus lady, maybe us atheists would be less critical if you kept it to yourself. If I find Jesus will he help me make millions of dollars selling books to provincial american rubes which distract them from concrete ways of improving their lives? something about a rich man entering heaven, camel through a needle -- bah, forget it. you all started worshipping the golden calf a long time ago.

"Religions may have been actively involved in the easing of the human condition, but I am more aware of conversion by the sword (the first case being that of the Edomites by the Jews in Maccabean times) and of burning at the stake and of Inquisitorial suppression of dissent. The benefits are a matter of theory; the harm is clear and present".

"I am prejudiced against religion because I know the history of religion, and it is the history of human misery and of black crimes".

"I have written on religion and science and have never made any secret of the fact that I am an atheist. My feeling is, quite simply, that if there is a God, he has done such a bad job that He isn't worth discussing".

Isaac Asimov. from "The Letters of Isaac Azimov".pp319

To 'Stop the Hate': If I were in the business of laying a trap, judging by your response, you fell for it :) I'm not here to 'argue', I'm too busy for that (I still have to clean my bathroom, fold some laundry and buy food for my fish - i think he's obese).

If you take issue with something I wrote, then debunk it.

There are three types of people in this world:
those who believe in God, those who doubt there is a God or believe there must not be a God (though they have not been able to mount any real argument for such a belief) and then those who know there is a God. Knowing God means to have had an undisputable experience that points to God's existence. You walked on water, you flew through this sky without anything under you, seeing uncorrupted bodies hundreds of years old might even qualify as such an experience. Your amputated arm grew back etc.

Anyone who claims that their belief is knowledge sounds arrogant,foolish, or both. To ridicule those who don't share your belief is childish - whether your belief is correct or not.

Insanity is sad. Rice is sad.

Faith is nothing to brag about.

Faith it was that removed the World Trade Center on 9/11, the greatest act of pure faith I have ever seen...pure and unselfish faith of the highest order...to give up your life for Allah. To slaughter infidels by the thousands.

To be persuaded that that is what god wants you to do...kill infidels...and to then go ahead and do it in the most outrageous way takes faith. The faith that there is a god, and that this is what this god wants you to do.

What enables this is the respect that society gives to Faith. It's supposed to be correct, even virtuous to switch off your brain and just have blind, unquestioning faith. 9/11 screams out loud that faith is totally irrational, is way out of place in a 21st century civilization, and is quite possibly going to destroy the world in the not too distant future.

Anne Rice, thank you. This is a powerful essay ... a fresh, articulate, contemporary expression of the conversion experience and its implications. I appreciate it very much.

In such a disordered and hostile world, it takes courage to share one's sincere spirituality with others. I'm glad you took that risk.

Keesha:

The 'why can't we all just get along' and 'you have your religion/belief system, and i have mine, so leave me alone' - type comments, though often comical, are stupid. Asking to be left alone with your beliefs while you (Christians) 'spread the Word' or while Muslims threaten death for even accidental depictions of the Prophet or while Jews claim that god gave them a certain parcel of land and everyone else (*ahem* Palestinians) be damned or while Catholics push abstinence to populations dying of AIDS rather than preach abstinence AND provide them with condoms... well, you get my point (I hope). Your religions do not leave the rest of the world alone.

Furthermore, you all claim that your religions are true, and for the most part, necessary for the proper functioning of society. Don't be surprised when some of us ask for 1) PROOF and b) PROOF.

As an aside, I would like to thank religious zealots worldwide for inflicting torture, pain, genocide and murder on non-believers, both now and in the past, in the name of their religion. Whether rightfully or wrongfully so, acts are committed in the name of religion by believers who believe that they have a mandate from god to do so.

Encourage reason and rational thought, believers. It's silly to encourage people to believe or have faith, but not encourage them to question the foundation of that faith.

That is all.
~~~~~~~~

You don't won't proof you want to argue. I have witnessed so many people answering your questions only to have you and others be rude, obnoxious, and argue their answer.

Why ask if your intention is to argue the point. If you cannot be mature about the commenter’s response then don't ask the question.

I do not mind a healthy sometimes heated debate but I’ll be damned if you or any other non-believer, Atheist, or anyone else is going to set me up to start an argument, period.

Anna wrote : "In other words, believers do believe with a force of will, but without any knowledge of why they believe as they do. "

How can Freud possibly know that when he's not a believer himself? How can he possibly know the taste of a certain exotic fruit like mangosteen if he had not tasted one? Try asking him what it taste like and you'd begin to think that he's a nutcase if he really tries to without tasting it first.

Sorry Anna, you have to ask for it first, to get it.

"Ask and it shall be given".

Spiderman2 wrote: >Why can't you atheists distinguish metaphors FROM fantasy? Please elevate your level of thinking a bit higher. It's hard to stoop too low

I've met people - and seen them and heard them and read their words - who say everything in the bible must be taken literally. To these people, who seem legion, metaphor does not exist in the bible.

Spidey sounds like a non-believer, one headed for hell for doubting the complete truthfulness of the bible. Are all these Christians right and Spidey is wrong? Which parts of the bible does he think are metaphorical, and which parts does Spidey think describes things that really happened? Or is all the bible metaphor to Spidey?

One Church-Roman Catholic. Two-Last four things-Heaven, Hell, Death, Judgment. Three-Three persons in one God, Blessed Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Five-Reject Vatican II, false council.

Anne, I believe in the flying spaghetti monster. It's that simple and complex.

Two words, Anne:

Thank you.

My esteemed and deeply revered father Sigmund was very clear in his analysis of religious fanaticism
and it's accompanying fantasy structure.

The pious follower of religion is caught between two fundamental psychic forces: Eros and Thanatos - the will to live and the very covert desire to die (and accompanied by a preoccupation with all things related to death). Thus, we must die in order to live, and so forth.

Unfortunately, the true believer projects these psychic confabulations on the world at large under the power of mysterious psychic figure, the Shadow - who rules the world of death, and is unknown to the pious follower, who nevertheless remains completely committed (often fanatically) to their religous beliefs but without any external or empirical basis in fact. And thus we witness the machinations and the unconscious actions and projections of the Shadow (a deep seated neurotic complex).

In other words, believers do believe with a force of will, but without any knowledge of why they believe as they do.

Our esteemed departed colleague, Carl Gustov Jung, had great insight into this deep psychic conundrum. Extensive therapy was the only 'cure' - the Shadow is expunged by bringing it up out of the depths of the Unconscious realm and purified by exposure to the light of consciousness and conscious knowledge.

The process of Individuation can then go forward as the natural 'spiritual' goal that was originally intended for each person, as their inalienable birthright. What those goals may be can only be identified for and by each individual - in the end, they are very likely to transcend a preoccupation with religion as we commonly know it.

The followers of any faith are typically stuck at a psychically proscribed developmental level that commonly remains the primary fixation and chief pursuit over a complete lifetime. In that case, we must believe that the Shadow remains as a powerful if hidden operational factor for those individuals.

Danl wrote : "worship him or die....or worse be tortured forever in hell."

It can be liken to a person on top of the building and somebody said , "don't jump" but he jumped anyway. The choice is really ours -- to be foolish or not. But sadly, many choose to be foolish.

That's nice, Anne. Now stop the preaching and get back to writing something scary.

Well goody goody for you. Your belief system is another way to try and overcome reality. By believing in superstition and primitivism you have suspended reality for a fairy tail of a supernatural resurrection. People who believe have been able to use religion to alter their minds much like drugs and alcohol can do. Religous belief suspends reality and replaces it with a mind altering feel good experience. However, reality is by definition real and faith is the exact opposite. Dream on Anne Rice.

I have read both "Out of Egypt" and now "Christ the Lord". "Christ the Lord" is one of the MOST beautiful books I have EVER read. I was hesitant to read anything you had written because of your previous subject matter. That has all changed and I so look forward to your next two books about Christ. I have recommended "Christ the Lord" to family and friends.

God does work in mysterious ways - your life is a testament. God bless.

This is moving testimony.

Man, has she turned in a nut case. Wonder how long THIS phase will last.

I was named after Ms. Rice's character in "Interview with a Vampire."

God, how I miss her vampire books.

well,
-if god knows everything then he obviously knows how it is all going to end.
how we are all going to end.
so if this is true, there is no real freedom of choice.
god has it all figured out.
therefore, the choice to accept him as our saviour is not real. nor was the choice to eat the apple or leave it on the tree.
god already knows whether we will or not.
in fact, nothing is in fact real...we are just god's puppets.
fine whatever...i will accpet his smothering omniscience.
but why make some poor child in a hospital or in iraq or elsewhere suffer so.
he knows how the suffering will end. he just sits there and lets it happen.
-as for jesus, i understand from decades of religious exposure that we have a choice...worship him or die....or worse be tortured forever in hell.
this sounds like a "choice" one would expect to given by the mafia.
you fall in line and worship the saviour or you will regret it.
-i find it impossible to reconcile myself with a religion whose god operates like the mob and literally threatens those who don't agree with eternal damnation and i cannot worship a god that tortures children and provides us with false choices knowing in advance how we will react.
danl

There is an old hymn that is entitled...Trust, Perfect Trust....and at the core of this realization is to stop relying on oneself for all the answers and to open up oneself for the possibility of something new and completely wonderful.

There is an old hymn that is entitled...Trust, Perfect Trust....and at the core of this realization is to stop relying on oneself for all the answers and to open up oneself for the possibility of something new and completely wonderful.

The 'why can't we all just get along' and 'you have your religion/belief system, and i have mine, so leave me alone' - type comments, though often comical, are stupid. Asking to be left alone with your beliefs while you (Christians) 'spread the Word' or while Muslims threaten death for even accidental depictions of the Prophet or while Jews claim that god gave them a certain parcel of land and everyone else (*ahem* Palestinians) be damned or while Catholics push abstinence to populations dying of AIDS rather than preach abstinence AND provide them with condoms... well, you get my point (I hope). Your religions do not leave the rest of the world alone.

Furthermore, you all claim that your religions are true, and for the most part, necessary for the proper functioning of society. Don't be surprised when some of us ask for 1) PROOF and b) PROOF.

As an aside, I would like to thank religious zealots worldwide for inflicting torture, pain, genocide and murder on non-believers, both now and in the past, in the name of their religion. Whether rightfully or wrongfully so, acts are committed in the name of religion by believers who believe that they have a mandate from god to do so.

Encourage reason and rational thought, believers. It's silly to encourage people to believe or have faith, but not encourage them to question the foundation of that faith.

That is all.

Lthree says, “I guess the God of the Universe could figure out what to do with the people who have never heard of him. Do you think? Or, is he limited?”

So why didn’t he tell us about these people? He told us about everything else of importance. Are you saying it’s not important to spread the Good News? I thought that was in the Bible too.

But still, God doesn’t mention the issue of people in different cultures that missionaries never get to.

Major oversight for God, I’d say, but understandable if the writers of the bible were just ancient people who didn’t know or care anything about the world beyond their own little piece of it.

To JD – so when all is said and done, you’re still afraid of going to hell, right?

To OmGosh – I wonder if your idea of spreading “hatred” about Christianity is any a statement about not believing in it.

Congratulations for such an inspired exhortation.
“Why do I talk so much about this trust now?” Perhaps because the one thing we know Jesus will be looking for when He returns is faith: Luke 18:8.

Giulio Varsi

Anne - You have a wonderful testimonial. Tell me, do you know what He looks like?

Truely He is all together lovely with a head as gold, eyes of love and the kisses of His lips are sweeter than wine.

"Love wins" is true but you must not expect it in this world. Christians live for the world to come where justice truely reigns. Too many Christians are striving mightily to somehow dress up this poor world because their real hope is here! Yes, we must be good stuarts of this world but know well it will all be burned up totaly, to establish the new world.

HOMESICK

I am a homesick stranger here
A poor pilgrim stumbling through
This waste howling wilderness
So sick of sin - self- satan
From out the depths I cling to the cross
Looking up to HIM
Who put death to death, with death
And HE rose triumpant
That "dirt" now sits on the Throne
To welcome more dirt
Infinite Wonder-Amazing Grace
O to see HIM: face-to-Face
Jesus Christ: Yesterday-Today-Forever
Come quickly Lord - Come quickly!

With Christian Love
Ron Van Beek

Anna wrote : "Of course his whole world revolves around this fantasy. "

Anna, it's metaphor, not fantasy. Why can't you atheists distinguish metaphors FROM fantasy? Please elevate your level of thinking a bit higher. It's hard to stoop too low.

Duff,

You wrote:

"It's always fascinating to come upon a person who seems so complex and intelligent and then find out they are nothing more than a garden variety simple person.

Ah, the power of religion."

Perhaps the person is not so simple. Perhaps, instead, faith is more complex and intelligent than you suppose.

Some very "complex" thinkers devoted their lives to the study of their faith. Viz. CS Lewis, GK Chesterton, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, etc.

Rice writes, "A long life of historical study and biblical research led me to my belief."

Sorry, but there can be no historical "proof" of the tenets of Christianity nor that the Bible is the universal or perfect basis for belief. The basic Christian creed consists of things beyond proof. To say they rest on faith, meanwhile, does not make them a particularly acute basis on which to make decisions. For instance, no religion advocates blanket killings, yet people of all faiths or no faith occasionally kill, sometimes in large numbers and for reasons (they claim) are consistent with faith.

To say, "Trust in Jesus," may furnish a sort of inner comfort, but what does it really mean? If it signifies, "He died that we may be redeemed of sin," exactly how does that alter one's propensity to sin further? How does one measure the attainments of any particular faith? Let's strip away the stained glass and mystical inner orgies. If the rate of homicide is any index, religious America is more damned than secular Denmark of Japan.

Faith is a very useful form of branding if one wants to share experiences with like-minded people. If one wants to run for office, sell books, stay out of trouble with relatives, or simply attain respectability in a community, there is great reward in joining. However, if one needs to operate in a world of multiple creeds, each of them affirming their own perfection, it is not particularly productive to go around proselytizing or boasting. There are positive beliefs that we can share and promote without meddling in other people's private tastes or traditions.

Rice writes, "A long life of historical study and biblical research led me to my belief."

Sorry, but there can be no historical "proof" of the tenets of Christianity nor that the Bible is the universal or perfect basis for belief. The basic Christian creed consists of things beyond proof. To say they rest on faith, meanwhile, does not make them a particularly acute basis on which to make decisions. For instance, no religion advocates blanket killings, yet people of all faiths or no faith occasionally kill, sometimes in large numbers and for reasons (they claim) are consistent with faith.

To say, "Trust in Jesus," may furnish a sort of inner comfort, but what does it really mean? If it signifies, "He died that we may be redeemed of sin," exactly how does that alter one's propensity to sin further? How does one measure the attainments of any particular faith? Let's strip away the stained glass and mystical inner orgies. If the rate of homicide is any index, religious America is more damned than secular Denmark of Japan.

Faith is a very useful form of branding if one wants to share experiences with like-minded people. If one wants to run for office, sell books, stay out of trouble with relatives, or simply attain respectability in a community, there is great reward in joining. However, if one needs to operate in a world of multiple creeds, each of them affirming their own perfection, it is not particularly productive to go around proselytizing or boasting. There are positive beliefs that we can share and promote without meddling in other people's private tastes or traditions.

Duff,

You wrote:

"It's always fascinating to come upon a person who seems so complex and intelligent and then find out they are nothing more than a garden variety simple person.

Ah, the power of religion."

Perhaps the person is not so simple. Perhaps, instead, faith is more complex and intelligent than you suppose.

I feel certain my late, esteemed father Sigmund would diagnose mr. spiderman2 with a powerful father fixation - and he very probably engaged in auto-erotic fantasies about his mother.

We have here all the ingredients of a devout believer in an all powerful God, such as we find in the Old Testament. This is a very deep-seated neurotic complex, and will not easily be pried out of mr. spiderman's psyche. Of course his whole world revolves around this fantasy.

Extensive therapy is recommended immediately, before he becomes a danger to himself and others.

To all those who believe that theirs is the one true religion:

God gave you a head that turns so that you might look in more than one direction.

Can't we all just get along?

well im not an atheist but i know one thing i respect, follow & love jesus (pbuh)more than you do it in u're way... the question is how?

Well i follow the commandments of which the 1st one says that "their is no god besides one true Lord"that is Allah (SWT) cuz the commandments were passed on to him by moses hence.... which lord moses is talking about ... ? Allah (swt) it is so neccessary for us to beleive n respect ... him that if we dont ... a muslim is not truely muslim untill he doesnt believe in jesus miraculous birth & that he was not crucified & will return back i can show you so many refrences regarding the topic that jesus never NEVER NEVER claimed divinity...neither did he claimed the he is the son of god by literal sense... its a provervic expression the God Almighty used for he's servants... & i have so many references where God call david as is begotten son, enos & ejil He's son.. but again its just a proverbic sense... if i say life is like an ice cream .. eat it before it melts... WOULD U BELIEVE THAT LIFE IS MADE UP OF VANILLA N CHOChOLATE... N IT MELTS... OR RATHER you would understand the meaning behind it ... similarly read the bible ... again ... as it has many differences & the meanings....

ONE MORE THING GOD IS ALMIGHTY HE IS WAY MORE ABOVE IN ATTRIBUTEs THAN TO BEGET OR TO TAKE A HUMAN FORM TO COME TO EARTH... HE CREATED ALL THIS HE KNOWs IT ... HE'S ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY LORD HE CAN CREAT MATTER FROM NOTHING & CAN TURN MATTER INTO NOTHIN...

for further help do not hesitate to contact

thanks

Don't reject the message because you don't like the messenger.

bman, your a crock. more believers have posted then anyone else. it just that during the night someone posted "hatred" against believers while others slept. take a look at yesyrdays posting if you want a tue picture of the writers supporters

after I woke this morning and saw what someone spent the night spreading hatrdd of christiansit made me sick!

I love God and Jesus and nothing a cruel mean-spirited arheist says will change my mind. Atheist are full of hatred for God's people and the two sects will neve get along. I know that now.

well im not an atheist but i know one thing i respect, follow & love jesus (pbuh)more than you do it in u're way... the question is how?

Well i follow the commandments of which the 1st one says that "their is no god besides one true Lord"that is Allah (SWT) cuz the commandments were passed on to him by moses hence.... which lord moses is talking about ... ? Allah (swt) it is so neccessary for us to beleive n respect ... him that if we dont ... a muslim is not truely muslim untill he doesnt believe in jesus miraculous birth & that he was not crucified & will return back i can show you so many refrences regarding the topic that jesus never NEVER NEVER claimed divinity...neither did he claimed the he is the son of god by literal sense... its a provervic expression the God Almighty used for he's servants... & i have so many references where God call david as is begotten son, enos & ejil He's son.. but again its just a proverbic sense... if i say life is like an ice cream .. eat it before it melts... WOULD U BELIEVE THAT LIFE IS MADE UP OF VANILLA N CHOChOLATE... N IT MELTS... OR RATHER you would understand the meaning behind it ... similarly read the bible ... again ... as it has many differences & the meanings....

thanks

bman, your a crock. more believers have posted then anyone else. it just that during the night someone posted "hatred" against believers while others slept. take a look at yesyrdays posting if you want a tue picture of the writers supporters

after I woke this morning and saw what someone spent the night spreading hatrdd of christiansit made me sick!

I love God and Jesus and nothing a cruel mean-spirited arheist says will change my mind. Atheist are full of hatred for God's people and the two sects will neve get along. I know that now.

David Crosby wrote: "And before you rebuke and condemn me, I'd like to see gods signature authorizing you and the rest of the flock to speak for him."

Jesus's mandate to his Disciples was, "Go and make believers of all nations." If you believe that the scriptures are the inspired word of God, that's about as close to a "signature" as you're going to get. They have God's proxy. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with any religion that excludes so many. I find it hard to believe that an inclusive god would condemn someone to eternal damnation simply because they didn't pick the correct flavor of religion.

It's easy to write anti-Christian books. Christ taught us to love our enimies. Write an anti-Muslim book and you die.

Have you seen your shrink latelly? Besides, how gives a hoot if you believe in a mythological idea? Why do you push it on others? I believe in the Toothfairy but don't go around selling it to everyone I meet.

Try growing uP!

It's obvious from these comments that many don't buy into Christianity. But "love your enemies" transcends religions. Anne and Christians believe what they believe, and it IS that simple. It often cannot be explained, nor should it have to be explained to the satisfaction of anyone. Stop wasting time arguing about who is right and tend to your own beliefs,whatever they may be.

I never would have guessed, with her earlier writings, that Anne had been or would become again a person of strong faith.

It just underscores Jesus' teaching about not judging other people. You never know what is in store in the future.

Kudos to Newsweek for posting this and not bowing to pressure some want to push so hard - that faith be completley removed from reasoned dialouge.

Art Paine

I never would have guessed, with her earlier writings, that Anne had been or would become again a person of strong faith.

It just underscores Jesus' teaching about not judging other people. You never know what is in store in the future.

Kudos to Newsweek for posting this and not bowing to pressure some want to push so hard - that faith be completley removed from reasoned dialouge.

Art Paine

Atheist know their grammer, then tell me where does "gosh darn" fit at in proper sentence structure?

Atheist cannot stand on their own, if you notice it not "I" or "me" it is always "we" and "us."

Spiderman2, you are the man!

Atheist know their grammer, then tell me where does "gosh darn" fit at in proper sentence structure?

Atheist cannot stand on their own, if you notice it not "I" or "me" it is always "we" and "us."

Spiderman2, you are the man!

An incredible, wonderful testimony! Thank you, Anne Rice, for sharing your faith. As Christians, our only obligation is to live as witnesses to Jesus' love and power. You have done that.

Spiderman2 - I think you mean (to pick only the most glaring of several grammatical errors in your post) "distinguish a metaphor FROM a fantasy." We atheists may be lacking in intelligence but by gosh we know our grammar.

But please tell us more about these wars that your faith and high level of intelligence allow you to predict.

Cane wrote: "It is reason that guides athiests to believe what they do, it is "faith" that guides those to believe a proposterous narrative based on fantasy."

If that is true then why am I able to know what's the next coming war and the other succeeding wars but you can't? The language of God is so smart that no atheist is capable of comprehending it. Their level of intelligence is so low that they can't distinguish a metaphor to a fantasy.

It is simply academically dishonest for anyone, religious or athiest to profess to know the truth of whether a god exists or not. If we did know, we would not use words like "faith" or "belief" when discussing religion or god.

In our discourse, this should be the starting point. No one has EVER proven the existance of god and its dissapointing that someone who is clearly an intelligent academic can come so close to saying so yet lose all credibility with statements like their belief is "total".

Please have the academic honesty to say that total belief is as misguided as total disbelief. It is reason that guides athiests to believe what they do, it is "faith" that guides those to believe a proposterous narrative based on fantasy.

It is simply academically dishonest for anyone, religious or athiest to profess to know the truth of whether a god exists or not. If we did know, we would not use words like "faith" or "belief" when discussing religion or god.

In our discourse, this should be the starting point. No one has EVER proven the existance of god and its dissapointing that someone who is clearly an intelligent academic can come so close to saying so yet lose all credibility with statements like their belief is "total".

Please have the academic honesty to say that total belief is as misguided as total disbelief. It is reason that guides athiests to believe what they do, it is "faith" that guides those to believe a proposterous narrative based on fantasy.

oh jezus maria anne you the great writer how can you possible go for this scam ??religion is a total fraud run mostly by homophobic men to get your hardearned dollars!! religion poisons everything and everyone it touches!! just look at what this preacher has done to mr obamas presidential run!!

Very well written piece...worth reading and following. I agree with Ms Rice.

Very well written piece...worth reading and following. I agree with Ms Rice.

I guess Anne believes God is a person and that Jesus wants to be her "lord". While I admire her belief in Jesus I am amazed by how many intelligent people are misinterpreting the New Testament.
God is not a person and Jesus plainly states that he wants us to be his fellow servants. He says do not call any man master or anyone father because we all have the same master and the same father, even the son.
Jesus was not God, he called himself "the son of man" meaning that he was the representation of what we could be, the archetypal person.
I know this is all meaningless but it bothers me that people who claim to believe in Jesus don't really know him.

Homosexual murderous vampire author loves Christ! News at 11.

believe all you want.
vampires aren't real either.

I do not trust the church.
spruce it all up with purdy words, it's still a giant load of carp.

It's always fascinating to come upon a person who seems so complex and intelligent and then find out they are nothing more than a garden variety simple person.

Ah, the power of religion.

It's barely worth responding to Spider2, since he can't bother to respond to my actual words and refutes what he already knows is true.

For example, "Nobody believes on Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, or Tooth Fairy"

Not true. Immature minds by the millions belive in these imaginary entities.

"I'm interested about your so called electro-chemical reactions. If you truly understand the workings of the brain then why can't you make yourself a smarter one?"

I never claimed I "truly" (whatever "truly" means) understand the workings of the brain. I merely said thoughts about the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and god are electro-chemical reactions in the brain.

"A lot of things in this world are still unknown and it may not be in your best interest if all things will finally be revealed in time."

If you were capable of understanding my last sentence, you'd see you've merely repeated, in your own words, what I'd already written.

"R-O-U-S's? I don't believe they exist."

I'm a believer but I've always struggled with the idea that God can justly send people to Hell because they were 'born sinners.' I lead a decent life--I'm working hard for my wife and daughter--I volunteer my time--I donate sacrificially to non-profits--I recycle everything--I even declare hobby income on my tax returns. I suppose I have as much or more reason than most people to consider myself 'a good person.' But, I would in no way consider myself 'pure.'

If there is no God--I'm in pretty good shape. I'm one of those people who says, 'I'm decent for decency's sake.' Even though a naturalistic philosophy is inherently deterministic (hence naturalists can't be decent for decency's sake and should only argue with theists if they are caused to by the determinitive forces of nature). On the other hand, if there is a God, I will have to deal with that one way or another. People who are trespassing in the fire swamp will have to fight rodents of unusual size whether or not they believe they exist.

I believe I really love God and I am thankful for my life and the many things I enjoy and have experienced and received. But the simple motivation for the time I knelt before God (a God or ontological or epistemological reality?--we'll have to see) and asked for forgiveness for my lack of purity is the same motivation for recycling, working for my family, or declaring hobby income on my taxes. RELATIONSHIP.

In order to be in a right relationship with my family I have to serve my wife and daughter. I recycle because I live on the earth, and I want to be in a right relationship with it. I do not own the earth and I know I cannot do as I please with it and expect to escape the consequences. Not believing in global warming doesn't keep my house from flooding. I pay taxes because I live in America and I am under authorities that I prefer to maintain a right relationship with. Not believing in the IRS will not prevent a audit.

I took the time to write this because I honestly understand how silly the Christian gospel can sound at times. Some of you will take that perspective to your graves. If you're right, you'd better get your gloating in here on earth because there's no 'I told you so' in the naturalist's grave. To me, it seems silly that the US government can tax me on hobby income just because I was born in the US and work and play here--but that doesn't absolve me of my responsibility to pay taxes. It also seems strange to me that I have to make peace with God just because I was born 'a sinner.' But, if God (Jesus) actually was willing to die in my place so I could have peace with Him, I know a good deal when I see it.

anne i thrilled that you believe.
just dont try to make me .
allow me the liberty of my own thoughts just as i have accorded
you.
my salavation is not your business

"R-O-U-S's? I don't believe they exist."

Dave wrote : "There is no god, though, just as there is no Easter Bunny, no Santa Claus, no Tooth Fairy, except as they exist in our minds as electro-chemical reactions.".

Nobody believes on Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, or Tooth Fairy but I'm interested about your so called electro-chemical reactions. If you truly understand the workings of the brain then why can't you make yourself a smarter one?

Remember, your brain started from just a series of AT & GT nucleotides which are very much simpler to what it has become. A lot of things in this world are still unknown and it may not be in your best interest if all things will finally be revealed in time.

Anne Rice,

What a great testimony...you bear witness to the greatness of the Lord...thanks for the awesome piece!!!

Albert Richie,

I don't think any kind of explanation would soothe you coz in the first place why won't you believe a person who can raise himself alive after being bled to death and buried in a tombstone for 3 days? He has turned water into wine, walked over water, calm a storm thru his words, and multiplied fishes and bread into thousands.

He can easily call an earthquake or lightning bolts to overcome his captors but he chose not to but let himself die instead. I don't know why He chose that path but the harder question is why you chose not to believe.

Why is it easy for you to blame God when we know in fact that our knowledge is so limited compared to Him. In the first place, your question alone might be faulty by itself. Didn't you thought of that? Coz if we stopped Bin Ladin earlier when he was starting to rule over Afghanistan or Hitler when he was starting to make hate speeches, all these things could not have happened.

I don't think any kind of explanation would soothe you coz in the first place why won't you believe a person who can raise himself alive after being bled to death and buried in a tombstone for 3 days? He has turned water into wine, walked over water, calm a storm thru his words, and multiplied fishes and bread into thousands.

He can easily call an earthquake or lightning bolts to overcome his captors but he chose not to but let himself die instead. I don't know why He chose that path but the harder question is why you chose not to believe.

Why is it easy for you to blame God when we know in fact that our knowledge is so limited compared to Him. In the first place, your question alone might be faulty by itself. Didn't you thought of that? Coz if we stopped Bin Ladin earlier when he was starting to rule over Afghanistan or Hitler when he was starting to make hate speeches, all these things could not have happened.

Anne Rice is a fiction writer, so she continues with it in this diatribe. I read every word in the bible, and if it is the word of God, and you don't find that troubling at all? Then someone goes on to say that those who disagree have not read the Bible, ooops, wrong, I have and it was what drove me away from it, read lots of other religious text and wow talk about ghosts, goblins and other fairytale stories. Those who are Religious, be it Christian or whatever may need a Divine Lie to be good and moral, I don't, I am moral and decent because I want to be, not that I will be damned or rewarded but because I have the common decency to do so because it is the right thing to do, not for any ulterior reason or for rewards, just because it is moral. And if you believe your fairytale God will damn me for being moral without believing in him, oh well I will continue to be helpful, kind, loving and all without the thought of reward or damnation. If your petty God wants to Damn me for having the moral fortitude to be good without belief oh well, so be it.

I`ve red this article and I`m glad that Jesus works! check out this, please: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Mercy_Sunday
Greetings from Poland!

How can intelligent people believe in a Roman Emperor's fabrication from 1700 years ago?
The bible is a textbook for slavery and ethnic cleansing. Plus a convenient place to hide for people that can't stand to accept our lot here on Earth. No god just Earth, men, animals, plants etc. We need to get out from under these terrible monotheists and save whats left of our planet and our future.And before you rebuke and condemn me, I'd like to see gods signature authorizing you and the rest of the flock to speak for him. No?! Well how about his phone number or e-mail? No again, Hmm! Lets see no god, just you pretending to represent god. I need to invent a scam as elegant.

How can intelligent people believe in a Roman Emperor's fabrication from 1700 years ago?
The bible is a textbook for slavery and ethnic cleansing. Plus a convenient place to hide for people that can't stand to accept our lot here on Earth. No god just Earth, men, animals, plants etc. We need to get out from under these terrible monotheists and save whats left of our planet and our future.And before you rebuke and condemn me, I'd like to see gods signature authorizing you and the rest of the flock to speak for him. No?! Well how about his phone number or e-mail? No again, Hmm! Lets see no god, just you pretending to represent god. I need to invent a scam as elegant.

When we're young, many of us believe in silly stories about the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and of course the Easter Bunny. As we learn the truth, we put our simple ideas aside and view reality.

One story many of us can't give up is the one about a god who cares about human life. It's perhaps the silliest story of them all. Why believe it? Because none of us has the capacity to fully understand the whole of reality; belief in a god is a sort of shorthand way to explain why we exist, just as Santa Claus is the simple explantion for presents under a Christmas tree, the tooth fairy is the explanation for money under pillow, and the Easter Bunny suffices for candy and Easter eggs hidden in the house.

Because none of us can understand the meaning of reality, some of us prefer to stick with the stories we grew up with, even though they are patently absurd. People like George Bush and Ann Rice and perhaps the person reading this comment.

There is no god, though, just as there is no Easter Bunny, no Santa Claus, no Tooth Fairy, except as they exist in our minds as electro-chemical reactions. There is an elaborate story about god, and for Christians, about Jesus, which, when closely examined, is obviously impossible, but it suffices for some because it's easier to accept, silly as the story about god is, than to accept that reality itself can never be truly revealed to human eyes. And thank goodness, or reality would be borning.

When we're young, many of us believe in silly stories about the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and of course the Easter Bunny. As we learn the truth, we put our simple ideas aside and view reality.

One story many of us can't give up is the one about a god who cares about human life. It's perhaps the silliest story of them all. Why believe it? Because none of us has the capacity to fully understand the whole of reality; belief in a god is a sort of shorthand way to explain why we exist, just as Santa Claus is the simple explantion for presents under a Christmas tree, the tooth fairy is the explanation for money under pillow, and the Easter Bunny suffices for candy and Easter eggs hidden in the house.

Because none of us can understand the meaning of reality, some of us prefer to stick with the stories we grew up with, even though they are patently absurd. People like George Bush and Ann Rice and perhaps the person reading this comment.

There is no god, though, just as there is no Easter Bunny, no Santa Claus, no Tooth Fairy, except as they exist in our minds as electro-chemical reactions. There is an elaborate story about god, and for Christians, about Jesus, which, when closely examined, is obviously impossible, but it suffices for some because it's easier to accept, silly as the story about god is, than to accept that reality itself can never be truly revealed to human eyes. And thank goodness, or reality would be borning.

Look..i don't believe in him...it's that simple....and not so complex......and it's highly annoying to have religion shoved down my throat wether by radio...TV or otherwise...and of course...this country was founded on christian principles...oh yes..what a lord....genocide of the natives...by christians...slavery by christians....meddling with political affairs of other countries strictly for our government's(the corporation)benefit....if this is the god whose principles you all follow....wow...what a god?!

Look..i don't believe in him...it's that simple....and not so complex......and it's highly annoying to have religion shoved down my throat wether by radio...TV or otherwise...and of course...this country was founded on christian principles...oh yes..what a lord....genocide of the natives...by christians...slavery by christians....meddling with political affairs of other countries strictly for our government's(the corporation)benefit....if this is the god whose principles you all follow....wow...what a god?!

Well then Anne Rice,
If on this afternoon, this al powerful God convinced you that he knew al the answers to your questions, that means he must have told you what they were. So please tell.
Why did he let al those people die on 9/11 when he could have intervened?
Why didn’t he shelter JFK from those bullets?
Why did he let Hitler get his way and Kill 6.000.000 innocent civilians?
Why did he do nothing but watch when the Titanic and the Estonia went down?
Why did he just watch and do nothing when every woman that was raped and killed, did so right before his eyes?
You are an intelligent person with a critical mind, so you must have wondered about this. Now please tell me what was God’s answer? I’d like to know.

Now why is it that I have a feeling that I will not get an answer to these questions that makes any sense? Maybe it is that whenever a person claims that God talked to them, al they can do is describe is a feeling of euphoria that they can’t explain.
Unless I get some real sensible answers to the kind of questions raised above, I’ll just have to assume that is al they are, unexplained moments of euphoria rightly or wrongly attributed to a higher being.

The problem is not that you can’t proof these things. The trouble is you can’t explain these things, and if this al knowing God did really speak to you should be able to.

Belief is mind based. It is based on the activity of mind. It is a beginning. A deeper crossing-over is Realization. The examples of Realization I have found are mostly from the East. Devotees of God swoon ecstatically in the Divine and are passed beyond themselves into Oneless with That One. They leave mind behind and are Absorbed in Him. Gone in the Lord, finally not separate from Him.

Very beautiful, Miss Rice, beautifully stated. Your words "the God who could make the Double Helix and the snow flake, the God who could make the Black holes in space, and the lilies of the field, could do absolutely anything and must know everything" remind me of the passages in Job 38 about God's greatness in creation compared to Job's or man's understanding. And the rest of the essay is equally full and inspired.

Thank you for writing this. I am passing it on to others.

Great article..Well said..I think I have the same disbelief you had in the beginning..

HighlyBlessedOne:

How typically Christian:

- Sheol is not Hell. There is no Hell or Satan in the OT, these beautiful things are brought to us in the NT.
- Therefore the Sheol of the OT and the Angel Hell of the new are two completely different things.
- As a side Numbers 16:30 is part of a story about some Israelites who questioned Moses as gods chosen one and wanted a bigger share in the priesthood, for which god kills then all without any chance of redemption to show that Moses is his messenger....... You should be asking yourself at this point, considering all the powerful things that Moses was claimed to have done, how could anyone who god had not granted those powers to question someone who could do them. Unless perhaps they were stories? Things that make you go hum......

Lest we forget, Sheol is not Hell. There is no Hell or Satan in the OT, these are the gifts of Jesus. Look it up and read it and weep.

HIGHLYBLESSEDONE wrote:--"It was never God's intention to create hell and send man to it."

If god is omnipotent and omniscient, then at some point *before* god created the first angel or the first atom of our universe, god *knew* that angels and men would fall short of his standards and that he'd also have to create a hell to which to send them. If he didn't know *beforehand* that it wouldn't turn out so bueno, then he isn't omniscient. If he couldn't prevent it, then he isn't omnipotent.

Thank you for the reminder that it is all about Him and not about us.

DR RUTH LOVE FREUD wrote: "I forgot "kindness"! Probably because you've been demonstrating SUCH kindness in all your words today. "

If a man shouts "FIRE" in front of your BURNING house, it means care and kindness. He's hoping you'd run away from your burning house.

You guys are still sleeping. Wake up.

To Keesha:

Okay, I'll give it a try.

1. I would not insult anyone who has suffered rape, or suffered in any other way, by offering an explanation that could only appear to be a justification of their suffering. I don't believe there is a satisfactory answer to this question, which is one thing about my faith that continues to trouble me. What I do believe is that God suffers with those who suffer, and that he offers comfort and healing.

2. No, I cannot offer proof of God's existence that does not require faith. But I must admit that I've always found this whole discussion to be kind of strange. I believe God to be a real being, not a proposition. To ask me to prove that God exists makes as much sense as asking me to prove that my wife exists. My response in either case would be to invite you to meet them.

3., 4., and 5. I find that the older I get, the less I worry about proving that Christianity is the only path to heaven, or to decide who is and is not saved (whether they've had a chance to hear the message of salvation or not). I'm much more concerned about where I am with God, and how God is judging me. Besides, I figure that God didn't give me the job of deciding who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, so it's probably not something he needs me to worry about. And the reason I need Jesus' atoning sacrifice is that even for a million dollars I could not live as he wishes me to.

Ben asked this question....

Should we believe in something as the result of a coercive threat that we will burn if we do not? I reject that and do not belive that the creator of the Universe is that small minded.

__________________________________________________

I am guessing that Ben is referring to hell.

Scriptures tell us that hell was created for the angels (now demons) that rebelled against God's authority. It was never God's intention to create hell and send man to it. That was wickedness that came into man's heart which caused hell's gates to open wide.

"But if the Lord causes a new thing [to happen], and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up, with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into Sheol (the place of the dead), then you shall understand that these men have provoked (spurned, despised) the Lord!"
Numbers 16:30 Amplified Translation

"...men provoked, spurned, despised the Lord..." It is wickedness, rebellion, hatred, perversion, malice and the like that cause men to go to hell. I hear the lament that if God is such a good God and a God of Love how can He let little children be raped? How can He let wars start? How can He let good people die? That is a question that God has already answered and already sent a remedy for. His name is Jesus.

He took the sins of the world upon Himself and died a horrible, unjust death so that anyone, who believes in Him and trusts in Him, would go free (be free from hell's punishment). It is the condition of a man's heart that sends him to hell. Good people and evil acting people alike will end up in hell if they do not trust in God and receive His key to heaven...Jesus.

It is so simple and so easy but so many people are so filled with hate, pain and evil that they cannot and will not receive the gift of salvation. They want the entrance to heaven to be accessible by their standards, their way of doing things...That is rebellion and it cannot stay in the presence of a Holy God.

Oops, SPIDERMAN2, I forgot "kindness"! Probably because you've been demonstrating SUCH kindness in all your words today.

SPIDERMAN2 wrote:

Dr. Ruth loves Freud wrote : "How big is that gun, anyway?

gad used that analogy of the gun but don't worry, you would know how big that "gun" is soon.
************************************

SPIDEY, did you really not understand that by "gun" I meant your penis? And by "explosion", I meant sex? And by "tense", I meant sexually? Hint: Dr. Ruth/Freud

Do you think you are pleasing god with all that vindictive rage spewing out all over the place? Where are your "fruits of the spirit"? Remember? Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control?

gad wrote: "A war in perfect Heaven "

I told you the Bible is not an easy to read Book. Even the prophets asked for interpretations to guide them.

Just accept it that you flunked the course. You guys need a tutor in order to pass the course.

Have you guys heard the word "failed" during your school days? How many times do you have to read the word before you understand it.

Neil wrote : "BTW, your stated 50/50 odds only work if (among many, many other considerations):"

I don't believe in that 50/50 myself. I'm 100% sure, all unbelievers and atheists are going to Hell. God is like pure gold. He doesn't deal with impurities. His words are pure. It's always 100% and not 99.9% let alone 50%.

LTHREE:
As a FORMER Christian, let's turn this around, shall we?

I remember when I was "saved".

I remember saying I would never NOT believe. So, to all who say, "I believe this", "I believe God will...(fill in the blank)," just know that it doesn't matter what you "believe".

Bigger minds than mind have tackled these questions, but, I hasten to add, the mind of an ordinary NON-Christian is capable of tremendous insight into man and his nature.
*********************************************************

To understand man's fear of death, his need for certainty, significance, contribution, comfort, and growth. His wish for connection and love. Human beings created deity and religion to "meet" these needs and to explain the natural world. Religion is as ancient as early mankind, and as primitive.

Dr. Ruth loves Freud wrote : "How big is that gun, anyway?

gad used that analogy of the gun but don't worry, you would know how big that "gun" is soon. Every Bible word is true and the last time I checked, the next coming war is with Iran. If it doesn't happen, then you're free to believe in anything.

Just wish that it won't happen and let's see what your will power can do.

Regular people suffer and die every minute of the day. 40 or 50 million people died violent deaths in World War II alone! Millions die each day due to starvation. I've never understood what the big deal is about "God's son" doing a long weekend's worth of suffering on our behalf ... Can't we just give him a medal of some sort be done with it?

I always hear unbelievers talk about "reason". Upto now, nobody from their ranks know exactly how the grasses formed into existence. It took milleniums for humans just to generate power from the sun with it's very crude system of silicon solar panels. The solar panel vs. the weed, it's like comparing the distance of the star to an arm's length. They are idiots, they are stupid and they are fools. Just like the Bible has said.

What's worse is they would burn. That's why I'm so adamant to share my thoughts and that's also the reason why Christ sacrificed His Life just for the opportunity to preach, and in the process, saved me and all the others that may not have believed if He hadn't done so.

The hand that kept the mystery of the grass is the same hand that holds the mystery of life, the promise of Heaven and the eternal curse of Hell.

Don't be too proud not to ponder coz nobody has ever defied death before except for One. What's more foolish is that those who can't, speak slightingly of the One who can. Very foolish.

VERY FOOLISH, INDEED.

A wonderful testimony to the hope that only Christ can bring.

I remember when I was "unsaved." I remember saying I would never believe. So to all who say "I don't believe this," "I don't believe God would .... (fill in the blank)," just know that it really doesn't matter what you "believe." Faith is what brings belief. Saying belief doesn't mean a thing without faith. I can say I don't believe in cement, but it doesn't mean a thing, cement, doesn't exit. God is that concrete. A pun. The beauty is it really doesn't matter what you "think" God would do, or is, or should be, or should allow, or whatever. What matters is who God actually is.

And another matter is, I guess the God of the Universe could figure out what to do with the people who have never heard of him. Do you think? Or, is he limited?

Anyway, I have enjoyed the items people have brought up, those who don't believe and those who obviously have a relationship with God, through Christ. Just to let you know, the atheists among us, all of your questions have been answered about ? 1700 years ago. There have been numerous books, treatises, and creeds, etc., and the big issues in Christianity have been settled for about ? 500 years. Since Martin Luther, anyway? So, maybe instead of saying "I don't think this" you could Google your main concerns, like "Christian theology" and "what about people who don't believe." In case you actually were interested in that issue. Bigger minds than mine have tackled these questions, but, I hasten to add, the mind of an ordinary Christian is capable of tremendous insight into God and his nature.

Karen W:
"And, by the way, God created man to be perfect but he gave him free will. Free will to sin, which man did immediately. We can't seem to help it."

Reason and logic are not you strong suits, are they. A perfect man would not chose to do an imperfect act therefore your argument is absurd.

spiderman2:

If there is a Heaven then let me lead the next war in Heaven! A war in perfect Heaven LOL! Damn it would seem every creation of God's would rather suffer in hell then worship him in Heaven! Put that in your Christian crack pipe and smoke it!

Betsy:
"I sincerely admire the courage it took for Anne to stand up for her newly discovered faith and risk the persecution of her devoted readers."

What courage? I mean America is reported as being 90% strongly superstitious. So, thank you Anne Rice for the courage to come out as part of the vast majority! If you want to admire someone, admire the gays or atheists who come out only to be told that the god of pure love is going to make them burn in HELL for all eternity!

Ok, believers, answer the following:

1) Why does god allow little children (or anyone for that matter) to be raped? He intervened in human life in various ways in the Old Testament, why not now?

2) Can you prove that god exists without using the word 'faith'? If yes, then please explain.

3) Can you prove that your religion (Christianity) is THE path to god and that other religions have it wrong? If yes, explain - please do not quote the Bible. That's like writing a book about the Spaghetti Monster and then quoting your book as proof that SM exists.

4) What happens to those who never hear the salvation message, do they go to hell? Why/why not?

5) How many of you believers are living as Christ intended? Do not use the 'I am not perfect' excuse either. If someone was offering you a million dollars to live as Christ intended for 30 days you would do it without any excuses.

Awaiting your kind replies :)

Ray and spiderman2:

If you guys insist on using a dodgy probability rationale for believing in the Christian god, then please have the common decency to credit the man who invented that dodgy rationale, Blaise Pascal!

BTW, your stated 50/50 odds only work if (among many, many other considerations):

--You've chosen the correct god.
--The correct god intervenes in our lives.
--There is a heaven and hell.
--The correct god doesn't deduct points for basing belief on dodgy probability rationale.
--The correct god doesn't deduct points for not crediting Monsieur Pascal. ;)
--etc etc etc

There is no greater feeling than having the Blessed Assurance of being a child of God and realizing that we are eternal beings in an infinitesimal blip in the spectrum of eternity. Blessed be the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of Almighty God. It is through God's Holy Spirit that His children experience the reality of the living eternal, almighty and merciful God. It is God's desire that none are lost. All are given endless opportunities to acknowledge God and accept Him as God. Worship Him and pray to receive the Blessed Assurance in your spirit that you are a child of God. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

Dr. Ruth loves Freud:
Bwahahahaha!

No, really. LOL!

Score!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good then I am done since we finanly agree on something and are at peace with one another.

Bwahahahaha!

No, really. LOL!

Score!

Meg, "Faith is nothing to brag about.

Faith it was that removed the World Trade Center on 9/11, the greatest act of pure faith I have ever seen...pure and unselfish faith of the highest order...to give up your life for Allah. To slaughter infidels by the thousands.

To be persuaded that that is what god wants you to do...kill infidels...and to then go ahead and do it in the most outrageous way takes faith. The faith that there is a god, and that this is what this god wants you to do.

What enables this is the respect that society gives to Faith. It's supposed to be correct, even virtuous to switch off your brain and just have blind, unquestioning faith. 9/11 screams out loud that faith is totally irrational, is way out of place in a 21st century civilization, and is quite possibly going to destroy the world in the not too distant future."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The faith you reference is not biblical faith. Faith is something to brag about in conjunction with God's word. Take Abraham he had a son as God promised well past his age to conceive children and his wife Sarah too had a child when she was past menopause.

Hebrews 11:6, Without faith it is immpossible to please God..........

Dr. Ruth loves Freud: "SPIDERMAN2,

"How big is that gun, anyway? How long has it been since you had a good...explosion?

You seem a little tense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you studied psychology you would know that Freud was a very sick man, he wore his mother’s underwear. Still i9nterested in using his advice?

Faith is nothing to brag about.

Faith it was that removed the World Trade Center on 9/11, the greatest act of pure faith I have ever seen...pure and unselfish faith of the highest order...to give up your life for Allah. To slaughter infidels by the thousands.

To be persuaded that that is what god wants you to do...kill infidels...and to then go ahead and do it in the most outrageous way takes faith. The faith that there is a god, and that this is what this god wants you to do.

What enables this is the respect that society gives to Faith. It's supposed to be correct, even virtuous to switch off your brain and just have blind, unquestioning faith. 9/11 screams out loud that faith is totally irrational, is way out of place in a 21st century civilization, and is quite possibly going to destroy the world in the not too distant future.

"I never knew the writer of those vampire stories could be so deep!But considering the whole contest of the stories and this meditation, I guess it shouldn't be surprising."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What meditation, who is meditaing on anything.

send any info for me please, i am a believer that Jesus Christ is our Savior

Ben Methany, "Should we believe in something as the result of a coercive threat that we will burn if we do not? I reject that and do not belive that the creator of the Universe is that small minded."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then what is it that you think God should do with non-believers. The basis of believing in God in faith, faith means having to trust God tom be who he say he is and that he will do what he says.

After all no Father will let children run rampant and amuck. Read John 8:44-47, it tells what God thinks about those who resist him through non-belief.

It is your choice; remember God gave all a choice.

I never knew the writer of those vampire stories could be so deep!But considering the whole contest of the stories and this meditation, I guess it shouldn't be surprising.

John 44-47, " (44)Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.(45) And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. (46)Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
(47)He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Thank you for your beautiful testimony to the truth of God, and His Son, Jesus Christ.

Should we believe in something as the result of a coercive threat that we will burn if we do not? I reject that and do not belive that the creator of the Universe is that small minded.

Karen W - regarding free will - what about people born in a place where they don't hear about Christianity?

They never have the opportunity to choose Christ freely, because they never hear about him.

Do they go to hell?

"When you die you are dead. No Gods will help you or me. Get over it.

What is so horrible about this fact?

Since when did you die and come back to life to tell us this presumed fact?"

If I told you, would you believe me?

Why must there be a hell if there is a God?

"When you die you are dead. No Gods will help you or me. Get over it.

What is so horrible about this fact?"

Since when did you die and come back to life to tell us this presumed fact?

SPIDERMAN2,

How big is that gun, anyway? How long has it been since you had a good...explosion?

You seem a little tense.

An atheist wrote : "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It only wastes your time and annoys the pig."

I'm willing to waste my time if my purpose is to annoy the pigs. Who knows, they would soon jump off out of their dirty pens and be set free from their stupidity. Not doing so would surely bring them to the "slaughter house" -- a place where they'd be roasted forever.

Unless they'd find the reason why DNAs can't exist without intelligent help, the prospect of Hell waiting for them would still be there. If there's a God, there is hell. That's the main reason why they really try hard to pretend there is no God to convince them that there is no Hell.

The DNA is there at your reach to examine, so start cracking them open. Break the mystery of DNA or break your head trying.

Crack it open... dream on. Change the history... delude yourself.

Just remember, if you are right and that there is no God then you won't burn. If not, you burn. You have a 50-50 chance. But as science continue to ponder what's behind all those mysteries like how weeds were formed, etc, the equation changes and it pictures a bad scenario for atheists.

But I don't believe in a 50-50 chance. I believe that 100 percent, you guys will burn in Hell. It's written in the Bible and I believe it 100 percent. Nothing in the Bible that has been said that didn't happen.

Without a bit of doubt , you guys would burn after this life. Those words are pure gold - 24k and no impurity.

"I believe in Jesus Christ. It’s that simple and that complex. I cannot convince anyone of it by reason, anymore than an atheist can convince me, by reason, that there is no God."

Good answer.

I find most Atheists hard to talk to about Christianity because they seem to know everything anyway. I'm wrong they are always right, it really gets old after a while.

If you don't believe then so be it, but personally speaking I have had many things happen to me in my for me to believe in Christ then not to. It's a personal relationship that I will always treasure.

Again, a personal relationship with Christ.

Ms. Rice is sharing her thoughts, not asking you to convert. Learn to open up your minds, sheesh.

You'll get farther in life(and after). :)

:P

PS - Sorry haters, there really is evidence that Jesus existed. Even scholars won't argue that.

As a fellow writer and a Christian, I sincerely admire the courage it took for Anne to stand up for her newly discovered faith and risk the persecution of her devoted readers. She's taking a huge step here, one of obedience that is honoring God and I applaud that faith. Its just another example of how the power of Christ can touch anyone's life - ANYONE'S - and use people's talents to bring glory to His name.

I don't think this is a ploy from Anne to get new readers or sell more books. I can't know for sure, only she and God can know for sure, but her words ring sincere and her faith true. I think God has truly done a work in her life and she's trying to share that with others and explain the change in her writing. A lot of authors have gone from writing secular fiction to what is considered "Christian fiction". Its a brave thing to do and risky when you're already known in the market for a particular type of non-Christian genre. But I really believe God will bless Ann's faith and obedience and take her writing to an entirely new level. Who knows the plans He has for His children! But we can trust they are good.

This is Easter Sunday and I can think of no better way to celebrate our risen Saviour than by reading the testimony of a life changed for Him. Congrats, Anne! Blessings!

And for those who posted negative comments about the Christian faith and about Jesus and the church, know I'm praying for you, that God will touch your life much like He did Ann's, and lead you to the cross and to an eternity with Him. Think of it this way - if you believe in Christ, die, and realize it was all a lie and there is nothing after death, isn't that better than rejecting Jesus, dying, and realizing that there is very much indeed a heaven, hell, and judgment seat? Choose wisely! Heaven can be your home, salvation is a free gift, all you have to do is accept it and invite Jesus to live in your heart and change you to His will. You don't have to clean up your act first, just go to Him as you are - He'll accept you. I promise. Just pick up a Bible and see for yourself the truths therein.

Happy Easter!

How good it was to read Ann Rice's testimony of her conversion. I read some of her books years ago. Thought she was a good writer but didn't appreciate where she was coming from at the time and some of the elements in her writing. I will take a second look at her newer books now. What a great definition of faith and trust that she expresses. She writes with such talent and I think will show a new depth in her writing.
Mary J.

Oh, thank you, KAREN W!

Thank you! I'm saved! Praise Jesus!
You earned a jewel in your crown today! I mean, I've heard this from the pulpit for years and thought it was a load of myth, but now that you've explained it so eloquently, I'm totally convinced. Praise the Lord!
It's a miracle! I've been so stupid and sinful and stiff-necked! Praise Jesus!
You did it! You're so smart and enlightened and spiritual and stuff! How could I have been so wrong! Praise Jesus!
I feel the Holy Spirit for sure! I believe! I feel smarter already! Hallelujah! Praise Jesus!
And when the judgment day comes, and it will, may My Avenging God smite all you unbelievers. God didn't WANT you to go to hell and He sent His Son and then He sent KAREN W to explain it and EVERYTHING. But did you listen? NO, you had to be rational and stuff. You had your chance! I will laugh as you burn forever!

I'm so happy, I think I may just talk in tongues! And I'm sure as Hell going to buy Anne's new Jesus book! Praise!

Anne;

I urge you to read the recently published paperback "The Portable Atheist"; containing exciting mind bending essays by great thinkers like Carl Sagan, Albert Einstein, Lucretius, Omar Khayham, Boswell, Shelley, Mark Twain, Orwell, Updike, Ian McEwan,and many others who offer profoundly interesting views and responses to the great questions that we all ponder, from the cradle to the grave.

For anyone with a curious mind who doesn't settle for simple tales of magic to explain what we know about existence and our origins; and is interested in what many 'great thinkers' have said regarding these big questions over the centuries, this is a must read.

"The Portable Atheist" (Essential Readings For The Unbeliever)published by Dacapo Press.2007.

Gad, you make a good analogy. Yes it's a big gun aimed over your head. But you have no idea that it's real and that is why you're behaving like a fool despite the fact that that big gun is ready to explode.

When you die you are dead. No Gods will help you or me. Get over it.

What is so horrible about this fact?

The Christian message is sadist and bizarre. If I stole your car would you say, "I forgive you, and to prove it I will allow you to beat my son to death?" That doesn't make any sense. I don't understand why so many people are tricked into believing that is an act of love.

"But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests." -Thomas Jefferson

Beautiful, Karen W, but let me fix that for ya!

"You DON'T have to go to hell. You make that choice on your own. Tony Soprano is good and right and holy businessman, and He wants what any businessman in the waste disposal business wants for His employees. He wants you to love Him, wants you to choose Him and choose what's right and holy for the family. He won't stop you from making the wrong choices. But in the end, yes, we'll all have to face the consequences of our actions. Just like a child who's gone astray and made wrong choices, or like when Adrianna sold out to the feds, they will face the consequences of their actions. We can intervene, but we can't make the choice for Adrianna or Big Pussy. Tony Soprano can intervene and try to save us from our action--and He did, when He sent Silvio, Paul and Christopher to have talk in our place--but He can't make the decision for us.

There is no gun to your head. Just a choice. And a consequence. And maybe a baseball bat and a lengthly hospital stay."

Much better!

Hello Anne Rice, No, I did not waste time reading your article. Ya see, I think religion is like sex; it is a private(no pun intended)thing. I am glad that you believe and trust God. But why exactly are you wasting time and ink telling us about it??????? Ken

Believe any crazy thing you want. I believe you are using this Jeebus to sell more books. Good for you!

Steve howze,

How can you say the Bible is untrue when you are not able to interpret just a single metaphor in it? Even the wisest man in their time asked for guidance to understand the vision given to him.

The truth is that even those prophets do not know what they wrote coz much of the prophecies shown to them refer to countries that don't even exist during their time.

They are written for the people of today so those who believe would never burn forever. The prophecies are now currently happening and just a few years from now a big portion of this world would be wiped out because of ignorance for the said prophecies. And that may just include you.

"AND THE VISIONS OF MY HEAD TROUBLED ME. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things."

How can anyone be so self delusional to believe in anything so obviously contrived and untrue as the God of abraham, the divinity of jesus, or christian dogma. its all so preposterous!!

Think of free will in this way:

We are our children's "makers", so to speak. We have created them for good--what parent would want a child to do evil? Okay, so in this horror-world we live in there are some who do. But my point is, we love our children, want to protect, want them to choose to love us and choose to do what's right. But we can't make those choices for them, much as we might want to. We have to give them free will...to choose what's wrong, what's evil, what will hurt them, what will give them no peace, what will destroy their lives. We can only intervene so much.

You DON'T have to go to hell. You make that choice on your own. God is good and right and holy, and He wants what any maker wants for His children. He wants you to love Him, wants you to choose Him and choose what's right and holy. He won't stop you from making the wrong choices. But in the end, yes, we'll all have to face the consequences of our actions. Just like a child who's gone astray and made wrong choices will face the consequences of their actions. We can intervene, but we can't make the choice for the child. God can intervene and try to save us from our action--and He did, when He sent Jesus to die in our place--but He can't make the decision for us.

There is no gun to your head. Just a choice. And a consequence.

I truly want to be with God. Even without the promise of heaven, I would follow Him. I love Him. I haven't always loved Him because I didn't know Him and didn't understand who He is and what He offered me for a long time. I know now what He's done for the whole world. For me. Because He loves everyone, including you, including me. He doesn't want anyone to go to hell.

And, by the way, God created man to be perfect but he gave him free will. Free will to sin, which man did immediately. We can't seem to help it. That's why we need a Savior. We can never be good enough on our on. And without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. That's why God gave us His own Son, man and God, to die once for all. All we have to do is accept this atonement. We can't save ourselves. Good or bad, we've all sinned. None of us can stand next to a holy God.

I'm flabbergasted at the *ugliness* of humanity as I read all these evil, horrid comments. Anne Rice simply told her story--not a fictional story (and her other stories are fiction--who doesn't know fiction from reality now?)--but the story of what led her to faith in Christ. Why is she being attacked like she was telling everyone here they're wrong, they must repent, must do this or that? I'm reminded of Stephen in the Bible, who started talking about the Scriptures and was stoned to death for it because a vicious mob didn't like what he had to say. So many of you speak of allowing others to have the freedom to believe what they want, yet you deny Christians the same freedom you ask for.

I started to say I don't understand what's happening here, but then John 8:44-47 popped into my head and it add made sense.

Kit,

"As I scientist, I meet so many colleagues who reject God based on superficial arguments. The arguments are often based on superficial secular treatments of Christianity or on unfortunate anecdotal stories that have been warped to lead themselves to the conclusion they personally desire. If they made these same type of arguments in their scientific work, I assure you, they would never get published."

How could you reject any type of argument, given the one you are proposing in your belief in the Christian god? Try publishing that evidence in a journal. There is none. There is tremendous evidence against the existence of the Christian god, which people choose to ignore by shielding themselves with "faith." Believe what you want, but don't suggest you're a scientist when you choose to believe the most un-scientific explanation for the world and what happens in it. Whatever field you're in - come up with an example. If you can argue there is a Christian god, I can use the same arguments to prove anything - Zeus exists, we can transmutate lead into gold, I can turn myself invisible ... whatever. Everything is game if you succumb to "faith" as an explanation. See, it's not just the facts against Christianity, it's the whole method of coming up with it that's flawed. So good luck with that.

As for Anne Rice, given the quality of her writing, I am unsurprised that someone with so little intelligence has given up thinking in favor of "surrendering" her life to a ghost, a zombie, and a vicious dictator-god and their hate-filled writings.

How about inviting Ms. Rice to write another piece in The Post: "I believe in Vampires."

Freewill? LOL! If a someone put a gun to your head and said they were going to slowly torture you to death in the most horrible way imaginable unless you satisfied their every desire, would that be OK? I mean whatever happens is based on your freewill, right. Well that is the same "freewill" choice god has given you, please his every desire or be tortured in hell forever! And let us not forget that god created everything and that includes HELL, the greatest Evil of all, the gun that he holds at our heads.

Read the bible god will send all manner of horror and torture upon you if you disobey his will while on the earth, that's coercion!

And what is the point of this great gift of freewill, to make a single choice of gods choosing at which point it is forfeited, for there can be no free will in heaven or hell, chose your robot state well robot.

Is that the truth of Christianity that everyone lines up for, cries over, and says is so beautiful. Torture me god until I am pure. If torture makes you pure, then the purest souls are the ones in Hell!

BTW, Adam was perfect, how did a perfect man make an imperfect choice?

Greg Thomas : "She has gone off the deep end...."

Why because shedoesn't believe like you...........how egocentric.

Your testimony truly demonstrates the awesome power of Jesus Christ. He truly is the ultimate Agent of change in the life of every believer. Thank you finding the courage to share your faith. You approached your examination of Christ as a sceptic and became a believer. A living miracle!

As I scientist, I meet so many colleagues who reject God based on superficial arguments. The arguments are often based on superficial secular treatments of Christianity or on unfortunate anecdotal stories that have been warped to lead themselves to the conclusion they personally desire. If they made these same type of arguments in their scientific work, I assure you, they would never get published.

>

Excuse me, but it was *man* who brought the hurting, wars and death. Why are you blaming God what for what man does (sometimes in God's name)?

He gives free will to all men. You're free to choose Him, or not. He wants you to choose Him, but He won't force you. He's made a way for all men to come to Him for salvation through Jesus Christ. Again, your choice whether or not to accept this gift.

If He takes away free will, then you will have no choice about what you do, what you believe. You're just a robot.

So which do you want? Free will and choice, or a existence of robot-obedience?

Admit it, you want free will. And that means a lot of evil men are going to make bad choices. You're assuming a great deal when you assume that God is in agreement with the evil in this world. You couldn't be more wrong.

By intervening now, even when we would most want Him to intervene, isn't God taking away someone somewhere's free will? He could do that, but He's chosen not to until His own appointed time. He's God. He made us and the whole world. Do you feel comfortable taking on the living God? Truly, I'd like to see that. And I'll be relieved that I'm on the side of God when the time comes.

God's silence is a myth. He speaks to people today, maybe not in the same ways that He did in the past, but He's real. Christians believe in God's word, yes, but we believe in God because His Holy Spirit is inside of us. I couldn't understand the Bible either, until God called me and made Himself known to me personally. I pray that all of you will someday have the same thing happen to you.

Some of these ridiculous comments posted here--based on a wonderful testimony of faith--must sound to God like tiny ants, shaking almost non-existence fists at Him. What has He done so wrong, especially in Anne Rice's case? He's given her faith, love, peace. And so many of you want to steal it from her? *Why?* Does this make sense even to you? Why do you wish evil on others if you consider yourselves the ones in the right? To me, that sounds truly evil.

I believe in hope that is grounded in realism.

I believe in the spirit of inquiry that drives man to explore that which is beyond his understanding.

I believe that there is no separability, that each is intimately bound together, that unity in fact is expressed through diversity of form.

I believe in renewal of the human heart; that suffering is an intrinsic part of life, but that love erupts when we confront suffering with sympathy, conviction and courage.

I believe that though the exoteric forms of religion are many and varied, that the religious impulse is common to all men, even those who call themselves atheist. It is not that religious form is adequate, or that it is true in itself, but that it is can guide, and open doors through which what is in itself can be experienced. Some do not require religion, and they are fortunate to have the freedom to perceive the wonder that lies behind the veil directly, to apprehend and reflect without qualification. The key as I see it is to be gentle with oneself and others, to learn through experience, to never condemn but always see intrinsic beauty, even in the horror.

While I am not a Christian, the message of the Sermon on the Mount still speaks to me, just as art, music, other sacred texts, and natural wonder speak to me. It is so unimportant for me to carry an exclusive and rigid belief-set. If what is labeled God is, then it is not separable from us anymore than an unfolding fractal is separable from the equation it expresses.

Let us learn to appreciate each other, to find value in places where in the past we found fear. Let us be grateful to exist this day, to be alive to see all the wonder that unfolds. That is the renewal I want to see, and my approach to life, is what determines whether I experience that, without regard to what labels I do or do not associate.

May each find within a peace and joy, an optimism for the future, and a commitment to sharing that in ways subtle and profound, material and not.

She has gone off the deep end....

It's hard to imagine that people can be so stupid in the 21st century. I'd rather see infants thrown in the fire so that the sun can rise again. Wait, this already happened, and for many years. Doesn't look like the human mind has evolved much further. Too depressed to even think more on the subject.

Jesus

Thank you for sharing your testimony, Ms. Rice-- and for your bravery and courage to stand for the Truth no matter what the consequence. May the Son of Man continue to bless you in the heavenlies and bring your faith and trust in Him to a completion. Grace and peace...

Dear Quentin,
You have chosen what you believe. We all have. Evidence, as such, must not be confused with scientific proof and even scientific proof must not be confused with actual fact.

I see evidence of the work of God. You do not. We cannot prove either conclusion as fact to each other. However, I do recognize that the extra leap to believe in God requires faith. Whereas, this extra leap you take not to believe in God, you have conveniently ignored. Regardless, you are also a man of faith.

With Kind Regards,
Brian

I've got a good book idea of Anne Rice: Jesus Christ: Vampire

Word.

I believe things because there is evidence to believe in them.
I do not when there is not.
Without those as tenets, it's prety much useless to use speech.

Thus,

I believe in the existence of Hank Azaria.
I believe in the existence of George W. Bush.
I believe in the existence of The Weekly Standard.

I do not believe in the existence of the monkey god Hanuman.
I do not believe in the existence of a three-sided square.
I do not believe in the existence of the Word Made Flesh, Jesus of Nazareth.
I do not believe in an Invisible Spaghetti Monster.

-Q

The U.S. election should not be about religions, but it may help to a better understanding of them. Countrary to some countries like Iran, in the U.S. there is, in principle, a separation of religion and potitics. Preachers are supposed to put God's issues before political issues. And one of God's commandement is that "one shall not murder". During the war in Iraq, the U.S. has murdered prisonners after torturing them. When Saddam Hussein was an ally against Iran, the U.S. closed its eyes on a genocide against the kurdes that killed thousands of children and women (secretary of states Rumfeld at that time was meeting with Saddam giving him his benediction to solidify the alliance against Iran). There are too many examples of this type. Many preachers from the right and from the left can often not close their eyes on these types of events without criticizing the system responsible for them. Those who do close their eyes are not men of God, they are politicians.

This is whacked. Delusional. Take responsibility for your own "salvation," Ms. Rice. You will do the world a service instead of promoting drivel designed to solve the 3rd century political problems of a "Christian" church dedicated to its own preservation.

I have always found the new and old testaments incomprehensible as texts, though perhaps understandable when viewed as the allegorical writings of numerous "informants" with numerous motives at numerous times; the result being that of the major organized and historically prevailing religions, Christianity is arguably one of the least close to its origins and least functional in conveying essential truths about our humanity. It has been most effective at institutionalizing abusive practices, including colonialization and resource exploitation and justifying inequities based on gender and race.

Ms. Rice's position serves to glorify these traits and tactics and deny the obvious artifacts of delusional god referencing self identification.

It's so stupid it makes me gag.

Love, Vampire Bob, friend to Carl Jung and the infinite universe of our own evolving self understanding.

Most of what people mean when they say they believe in Jesus Christ is a projection based upon fragmented and heavily doctored texts, and an old psychological need for a scapegoat for sin. My experience with born again evangelicals - people who put all their faith in their idea of who JC was - is that it is a substitute for the more authentic psychological work of understanding our own personal lives and taking responsibility for healing our selves. Tools for which we have had for a century. Giving responsibility to someone else always comes at a price; in this case, a huge one. The Christian Right wants to return us to a state of religious tyranny. Most of them are simply too uneducated even to begin to grasp such a concept in an objective manner, but Anne Rice should know better. Merely being a southerner isn't enough of an excuse.

donnolo, "How much longer are you going to keep printing this garbage? Wouldn't you rather have a feature on people who believe that the Earth is flat? The Post is supposed to be a NEWSpaper, not a bulletin board for the superstitious."

Go to another site if you do not like it.

Well I see all the "Christian haters" and "bashers" are out in full force.

Keep the faith brother and sisters and forge on.

And I mistakenly though that we could all get along dispite our differences with beliefs, the operative word is "mistakenly."

You cannot reason or speak logic to a closed mind, period!

BGone:

If you would like to read the history surrounding the origin of the notion of man's resurrection on earth its on the web at http://www.hoax-buster.org That used to be his second page. And, a demonstration of what we get when technical people get involved in democratic processes like history where what happened is determined by the vote of experts [with a vested interest].

" Steve:

Ann - I couldn't be more disappointed in you. I thought your Vampire books were brilliant. I thought you were more intelligent that this. Please come back to your old self, pre-1998."

Eh, still sounds like the same thing to me. :)

Despite a long history of having witnessed the grace of God in my life, I struggled these last several years with my faith in Christ and my own intellect until I realized that human rationality is a frail construct built upon pride. When I returned to the cross as a child in heart once again, then I began to see the wondrous beauty of my salvation and the actual work of God in my life in amazing ways.

Everyone must have faith in something because none of us have proven everything that we believe with scientific certainty. Science and scholarship are no substitutes for faith although they have a place in our dialogues. Even like evangelical atheists like Dawkins must live by faith. The work of the cross of Christ is the source of spiritual life, love, hope, joy, and peace. I am grateful that I was allowed to rediscover this amazing grace.

Jen Silver,

You are just plain rude, but you are acting just like someone would that is without God.

Good riddance to you.

Wow. There are a lot of misguided people here who stating a not of false information. Before you discount Christianity, please research:

- The Gospel's historical reliability as compared with other writings in the 1st century
- Biblical history
- Christian theology
- What 1st century historians say about Jesus

Then read "Case for Christ" by Lee Stroble... then you can make your own decision.

How much longer are you going to keep printing this garbage? Wouldn't you rather have a feature on people who believe that the Earth is flat? The Post is supposed to be a NEWSpaper, not a bulletin board for the superstitious.

What a beautiful and eloquent testimony of God at work in your life--and in the life of the whole planet. How we do need to be reminded of this in our current anti-Christian culture! Thanks for the timely message. I thank God for calling you to Himself.
Blessings,

Linore Rose Burkard
"Inspirational Romance for the Jane Austen Soul"

"I believe in Jesus Christ..."

Well, good for you. Now, shut up.

Found this so powerful I linked to it on my blog... COMMON CENTS. Happy Easter to everyone!

Hope you like today's COMMON CENTS blog. Godbless you
and your families!
http://netradionetwork.com/commoncents.html

Steve

This article = goobly goo

No proof + belief in something without proof = crazy squirrel people

Questioning + Asking for Proof + The proof can't simply be what you 'feel' + Using reason = I won't accept your goobly goo crazy squirrel people!!

You can believe in something simply because a book tells you it's true, but you won't convince anyone with brains unless you come to the table with some meat - naw mean? Well, actually you can, but you'll look dumb.

later Peeps

I just wanted to know how God and Christianity comfort the parents of children who are raped and sometimes murdered? Is it God's will that this happen? Because it sure is 'His will' if He blesses a believer with a new car, job, extra cash, etc.

Ooh, Ms. Rice tries out church-speak!

Why does religious zeal so often present itself with such overblown, pompous language?

"midst" (who says midst in real life?)
"blessed" (church-speak = two syllables)
"born as a tiny baby" (as opposed to a giant baby?)
"power and majesty" (my god is bigger than your god)
"all-knowing God" (feels good to know Big God is in control)
"release of all my doubts" (yep, pressure's off)
"questions...tormented me" (using reason is HARD, y'all!)
"my questions became petty" (I gave up rationality)
"beheld" (there's that church-speak again)
"the Maker" (Must.Capitalize.Certain.Words.)
"the Lord" (pronounced "lawrd" in the south)
"girds my faith" (for firmer control, try Spandex)
"complete certainty" (the heart of all invented religions)
"trust that He has won" (Supergod wears a cape, yo)

Every revealed religion seems to have its own "church-speak" to gloss over the troubling flaws in that faith, reassuring followers that their rituals and beliefs are NOT...irrational and ridiculous.

Dear Anne,
Thank You, I am grateful for your above writing and thoughts.
I still try to pray for bush and cheney but it is difficult and I mostly have little success.
Love your enemies, for me, does not mean making war upon them. Why are these hubris people unable to use what power they have to try something new and different. Take a hundred
average citizens and lock them in a room with food and water then do not allow them out until they have come up with 25 new ideas to deal kindly and effectively with those who we have helped to hate us.
Be Well and Peace be with you,
Here is to longing for the day when predator and prey shall lay down together
B

"AND THE VISIONS OF MY HEAD TROUBLED ME. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things."

I hope this article by Anne Rice continue for a week. There are a lot of good posts that needs answers. Here are just 2 among so many :

1. "I have yet to find anything written that has convinced the faithful to leave god or the faithless to become believers."

2. "As a practicing Jew, I cannot say Jesus was the Messiah, because we believe the Messiah is still yet to come;"

The Bible is a book of knowledge. It's not an easy to read book. Even the authors of the Bible ask for answers for the visions they see. I myself have to wait years just for me to understand some of the more difficult passages. It's not thru my own intellect that I understand them, it just flash to my mind when the time is ripe.

A big portion of my faith in Jesus Christ is thru the prophecies in the Bible. After a lot of waiting and searching for the meaning of these prophecies, they have become so clear and accurate. Thru these prophecies, I now know which wars are coming soon and in what succession.

The same Bible which told of very accurate prophecies speaks also of Jesus Christ and the coming "second Death" which is Hell. Any person of average intellect would surely pause and ponder and would strive to resolve what could be awaiting him/her after death when confronted with such a very accurate Book which not only speak of accurate prophecies but also the prospect of Hell.

"AND THE VISIONS OF MY HEAD TROUBLED ME. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things."

Please save this post for future reference. "I Run Next to ...."

DL, atheist countries also will in the future could eventually do away with all the hard-won rights that you're talking about.

How can one hope for peace on Earth while there is such a thing as an evil force called islam?

And though modern-day versions of Neville Chamberlain try as hard as they can to make us Westerners believe that islam is a religion of peace, its followers are brought up hearing that their inferior ideology and religious beliefs actually gives them a status of superiority over all the so-called 'infidels', those who haven't sumbitted to their violent and supremacist cult, and over all other religious beliefs.

There can be no peace with those who blindly believe that domination, subjugation and imposing their religion on others by force is their sole purpose in life, and that such 'obligations' are given to them by a God.

If islam is wiped off the face of the Earth, then I believe we'd be able to start talking about world peace. Otherwise, it can only be wishful thinking.

And I say this as a follower of NO religion whatsoever, but as someone who is concerned that the blind eye that many have turned to islamic extremism supposedly for the sake of 'promoting tolerance' could eventually do away with all the hard-won rights for people of ALL faiths (including atheists), homosexuals and women in developed countries (since it's to those countries, mainly in Europe, that the hordes of intolerant muslims have been flocking non-stop for the last few decades.)

This would be a whole lot more believable if:

A. Every book she ever wrote didn't deal with the most anti-religious messages possible.

B. She wasn't approaching the end of her life and starting to get scared about 'where she goes'.

More hurting, wars, and death in this world have been done in the name of one 'god' or another than any other cause. And if he exists, his silence makes him complicit in these actions.

I can not and will not worship a murderous uncaring god, no matter the consequences. Fortunately, since the Christian faith is wholly based on visions, dreams, and basically ripping off every other religion from Paganism to Ancient Greek (What, you thought Christmas and Easter were Christian holidays?), there is about as much chance of the Christian god existing as the Roman gods, or the Greek gods, or any other gods.

Ann - I couldn't be more disappointed in you. I thought your Vampire books were brilliant. I thought you were more intelligent that this. Please come back to your old self, pre-1998.

Ms. Rice,

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you have fallen in love with God.

I've always thought that, ultimately, that's what we mere mortals will feel when we come to know God: the deliriously delightful bliss of being in love with Someone so sublimely perfect in every way.

To know God is to fall in love with Him, and to lose Him is literally unbearable: it would be Hell. If people who love cannot bear the pain of losing their loved ones, and so seek to end their suffering by ending their lives, how much more painful would it be to lose One who is Love Itself.

That's why there really could be unending hymns of praise to God in heaven by the choirs of angels and saints. When we fall in love, isn't it true that we cannot stop singing paeans about the virtues of our beloved? That stops when reality sets in and we see the flaws and faults of our beloved. But with God, you are forever in love because God is flawless and perfect.

Sadly, I know not God myself.

Nevertheless, a Happy Easter to you and to everyone! God rules!

How can one hope for peace on Earth while there is such a thing as an evil force called islam?

And though modern-day versions of Neville Chamberlain try as hard as they can to make us Westerners believe that islam is a religion of peace, its followers are brought up hearing that their inferior ideology and religious beliefs actually gives them a status of superiority over all the so-called 'infidels', those who haven't sumbitted to their violent and supremacist cult, and over all other religious beliefs.

There can be no peace with those who blindly believe that domination, subjugation and imposing their religion on others by force is their sole purpose in life, and that such 'obligations' are given to them by a God.

If islam is wiped off the face of the Earth, then I believe we'd be able to start talking about world peace. Otherwise, it can only be wishful thinking.

george crupper wrote : "leave the rest of us alone".

If he's referring to false religion then he has a point. But clearly, he's not. In the parable of the ten virgins, the fools shouted in unison, "please open the door; give us of your oil ".

We tried to but you never listen.

"leave the rest of us alone". It may come to that whether we like it or not.

Anne Rice:--"Look: I believe in Him. It’s that simple and that complex. I believe in Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, the God Man who came to earth, born as a tiny baby and then lived over thirty years in our midst."

When I reflect on "the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity", I can't get around the inescapable facts that this same baby Jesus, at an earlier time and under a different guise, is said to have drowned 99.999% of all of Earth's living creatures in a great flood and commanded his military leaders to commit unspeakable atrocities against Canaanite babies.

and how would you believe if you were born a Muslim...forget all this nonsense...however this Garden of Eden got here is unknown...praying for thousands of years should reveal to common sense that the creator does not give a damn...but IT gave us this earth, Garden of Eden to enjoy...but we haven't done such a good job in taking care of it...so go right on praying, Muslims, Christians and Jews and whomever but for your sake, for my sake and for Christ sake,for Moses sake, for Mohamand sake leave the rest of us alone...get a life

Hi!
It's true that most of the christian believers are lacking the so called "TRUST" in our day to day lifestyle. Ya, it's indeed a disturbing facts about the rising uncommon but sad situation.
Thanks Anne for such a beautiful but touching article.

There wasn't enough blood in the vampire books, she's got to have the blood of religion. Drinks the symbolic blood in church no doubt, feels all squirmy righteous.
Ms. Rice dwells in a world of fantasy and fiction, her heroes, however, have apparently morphed from fictional murderers and child rapists to real ones.
So much for "faith."

Fred wrote : "I'm taking mine to the beach."

Nobody's going to the beach yet. There's another war coming. The Bible has spoken and it does not lie. Just wait coz it's coming.

The Bible doesn't want war. It just says the truth of things to come.

how very sweet.I would rather believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster than an imaginary Jew.

the good part of that is the fact that nobody has or will die in the Name of FSM.

So take your invisible friends of hate and intolerance and shove them really deep,Ms.Rice.

I'm taking mine to the beach.

My goodness...why not believe in the flying speghetti monster or a celestial teapot. Your faith is curious since it is based on nothing but superstition and primitivism. Nothing has happened on the religous side for about 2,000 years. Thanks to the ingenuity of the human mind, however, we have now a reasonable understanding of the natural world and we do not need religous hocus pocus to explain it anymore.

More words to ponder:

Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty, wingy, talking, flying, fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits (especially the Easter collection) analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

"AND THE VISIONS OF MY HEAD TROUBLED ME. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things."

I hope this article by Anne Rice continue for a week. There are a lot of good posts that needs answers. Here are just 2 among so many :

1. "I have yet to find anything written that has convinced the faithful to leave god or the faithless to become believers."

2. "As a practicing Jew, I cannot say Jesus was the Messiah, because we believe the Messiah is still yet to come;"

The Bible is a book of knowledge. It's not an easy to read book. Even the authors of the Bible ask for answers for the visions they see. I myself have to wait years just for me to understand some of the more difficult passages. It's not thru my own intellect that I understand them, it just flash to my mind when the time is ripe.

A big portion of my faith in Jesus Christ is thru the prophecies in the Bible. After a lot of waiting and searching for the meaning of these prophecies, they have become so clear and accurate. Thru these prophecies, I now know which wars are coming soon and in what succession.

The same Bible which told of very accurate prophecies speaks also of Jesus Christ and the coming "second Death" which is Hell. Any person of average intellect would surely pause and ponder and would strive to resolve what could be awaiting him/her after death when confronted with such a very accurate Book which not only speak of accurate prophecies but also the prospect of Hell.

"AND THE VISIONS OF MY HEAD TROUBLED ME. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things."

Please save this post for future reference. "I Run Next to ..."

Jesus is awesome and majestrial and Mrs. Rice has left her senses. This a article appears to be an effort to convince herself that the Angry, Son-Killing, Genocidal maniac in the old testament is anthing less than Santa for grown-ups.

God is irresponsibilty and fraud, like a drug, that kills millions.

THose who insits on this delusion are complicit in the murder.

Religion s murder by sacred decree, fraud with papyrus.

As to glory? Please, bunch a wusses.

And selfish, oh my fgod, all they care about is their salvation. My god, muy ,faith, my needy needy self. The opposite of what the carpenter Jeshua spoke of.

Why are you so weak?

Jesus is awesome and majestrial and Mrs. Rice has left her senses. This a article appears to be an effort to convince herself that the Angry, Son-Killing, Genocidal maniac in the old testament is anthing less than Santa for grown-ups.

God is irresponsibilty andf frad, like a drug, that kills millions.

THose who insits on this delusion are complicit in the murder.

Religion s murder by sacred decree, fraud with papyrus.

As to glory? Please, bunch a wusses.

If people only had as much faith in themselves and their fellow human beings as they have blindly devoted to an illogical assumption of a supreme creator that has granted us the free will to choose, yet offers us only one choice for redemption, this world would know far better days.

Anne Rice's comments are an inspiration. She reminds us that belief in Jesus the Messiah involves a vision or a "belief in a world in which, conceivably, human beings could lay down their arms, and stretch out their arms to one another, clasping hands, and bring about a total worldwide peace. This vision of a new world, the "new heaven and the new earth" as scripture calls it, that is the most underplayed part of the New Testament message. We need to be reminded of it. Thanks to Ann Rice for doing that so compellingly.

American Christians are the original spin doctors.

Neither Jesus nor God's commandments give any flexibility to kill people who are evil. They say we should accept suffering at the hands of the evil if such is inflicted upon us, and we will receive our rewards in the next life.

American "Christians" contort this. They duck it.

And thank God for that.

Now it is time that Christians own up to the fact that Christ has some interesting ideas, but not ones by which we'd choose to run a country. Hitler raises a nasty and killing army? Let's kill them. And so we did, thank God.

It's past time to stop the charade. Americans aren't Christian. And they shouldn't want to be. Christ chose to take his chances on letting bad guys kill him without resisting. The rest of say, all power to you fella, but no thanks. The bad guys come after me, I'm going to lay waste to 'em.

America is not Christian. Doesn't want to be. Shouldn't want to be.

America uses its god given human conscience to seek to enter only into just wars. Spin it as you may, there is no space in Christ's or the Biblical God's teaching for just war.

End the folly. Leave the church. Your god given human conscience, developed by a wise and loving society, is enough. You sully your integrity, honesty, and dignity by saying you are Christian, when you are not.

Trying to dress up Christ's words makes American Christians, many of who live criticizing Bill Clinton, be adept spinners like him.

Anonymous:

Michal: "I find it a nice article. Critical thinking is important to avoid fanaticism, however, I have a feeling that many readers commenting here fail to understand the concept of belief. Even the meaning of the word escapes them."

**************

Then by all means educate us, please.

**************
**************

You should by all means consult a dictionary, please.

PS: My last comment was directed to those talking about the burden of proof.

Philippians 2:10-11 declares “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” One day, everyone will bow before Jesus and recognize that He is the Lord and Savior. At that point, though, it is too late for salvation. After death, all that remains for the unbeliever is judgment (Revelation 20:14-15). That is why we must trust in Him in this life.

With the resurrection of my Lord jesus Christ, My woes have passed and I have been saved...

Not all of us had an instant conversion, though I believe it happens to many evey day. For other christians, like me, this has been a developing relationship. What maintains and strengthens me is that every time I go to Him, he's there for me. Keep walking the road.

Anonymous:
"He is risen indeed.

Halleluiah!

Was it a Morning Like This?"

I don't know, try PBS and watching an "untainted movie" and perhaps it will reveal the answer to your questions.

Some things and people never change and never will.

anon @ 8:10 am, beautiful post!

anon@ 8:01, yes, truly spoken.

Hallelujah!

"Did the grass sing?
Did the earth rejoice
To feel You again?
Over and over like a
Trumpet underground,
Did the earth seem to pound:
“He is risen”

over and over
in a never ending round
“He is risen, alleluia, alleluia!”
from Was it a Morning Like This by Sandi Patti

It is great to see and read an article about Christ. I never knew Ms. Rice and the books that she wrote before, but from reading some of the post I take it that she has written books about vampires.

What bothers me is how many non-believers are criticizing Rice for spreading the gospel of Christ. Apparently, Rice was in their "good standing" when she wrote what they wanted to hear but as soon as she changed her writings and the subject became Christ they no longer had anything thing positive to say. In fact many of their post try tried to persuade those who believe in Christ away from believing in Christ.

Some of these same people have posted on other On Faith sites how open-minded that they are and that they respect all religions no matter what someone’s faith is. But what I see from their post here is that they really do "hate God" and those that believe in "God."

Can't we all get along? Can those that don't believe in Christ accept us that do? I'm not asking you to change your belief system but what I am asking is that you accept me, others, for what we believe in without the hate, without the criticizing, without trying to lead us away from our belief to your belief system.

Happy Easter to all believers, he has Risen! To others, have a great day whatever it is that you do today!

Amen. Alleluia! We are all one.

It's interesting to see how Ms. Rice's simple confession of personal faith has touched so many nerves.

Ms. Rice, thank you for sharing your story. Jesus Christ is risen. He is risen, indeed.

Reasonable Not Hateful,

If it were just the studies of Professor Crossan that concluded there was no physical resurrection of Jesus, I would not consider it as being useful. However, when many other NT exegetes come to the same conclusion and when the same conclusions are being taught in Catholic graduate schools, then we must consider the physical resurrection as being wishful thinking and/or hallucinations wrapped in the superstitions of first century Palestine, superstitions that were not questioned until 200 years ago.

jesus was the son of joseph not the son of god . god does not exist and was invented by man.
genesis
god made man in his own image

MAN MADE GOD IN HIS OWN IMAGE
if you believe in such things as the talking snake, blowing the walls of jericho down with trumpets etc,then look at the begining if god was the creator of the world then who created god.

THE ONLY CANDIDATE IS MAN

How strange it is that if she said she believed in anyone (or thing) else she'd be considered nuts. She is nuts. I would say it's the waste of a good talent, but I was never able to finish her books anyway. As Ben Franklin said, "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

Ms. Rice's refreshing personal message on her transformation after returning to Christ is inspiring. On this Easter morning, this article is especially meaningful. Glad I read it before sorting through the secular, routine news.

I was born into a Hindu family and was partly educated in Christian schools where priests did their best to convert me to Christianity. But the message of Jesus, while some of it good, had nothing to offer to me that was not already in Indian scriptures or better than what Hinduism taught. In fact Jesus's assertion that his was the only way was very distasteful. The Hinduism I grew up in was very tolerant and accepted all paths to God as equally valid.

Just an attention-seeking headline, no more than that.

It's simple alright but in no way is it complex.

i also studied the religions of the world while in college. that's what led me to realize religion existed only to answer seemingly unponderable questions. in 2008, we have reached the point where we know what we don't know and no longer need religion of any sort.

based on what? what you want to believe? have you ever examined the words and phrases you use? you're not thinking for yourself, you are simply regurgitating.

Wow, I had to drop LSD to get hallucinations like that. Self-delusion, the coward's way out of the reality of life. You can see how desperate is this lady, one second of convincing otherwise and she dissolves into a puddle.

What are you going to do when that 100% faith is only 90%?

Wow! Thanks for your testimony!

Anne Rice's passion for her religion is undeniable, but she seems to conclude from her re-connection with Christ that all we need for a peaceful world is for all people to "believe and seek to trust" Christ as "billions" already do. The problem here as with all proselytizing religions is the absoluteness of the assumption that ours is the way not yours... not you billions who believe equally as fervently in your own paths to God.
My question to Ms Rice is how are we to be sure He has chosen your group over the rather larger group of Islam (who also happen to think everyone needs to be in their group) or the previously promised chosen group, the Jews (who already being 'chosen' don't feel the need to persuade more into their group)
Anyway, you get my point, belief/faith/trust it's ALL PERSONAL, and should be so... she's a great writer and I'm a fan, but she gushes here with the logic of a teenager's crush.

anne rice? is this a joke? i guess if it can happen to bob dylan..

If it makes you happy...but now you have made Zeus and Mithras and Thor and Odin sad because you don't believe in them.

To the person below who does not know if Jesus is the son of God. That is exactly the question I suffered with for years. I felt foolish to try to believe that. I actually asked that question of the person who was "leading me to Christ." That I was not quite sure I could believe that. She "thumped" the Bible, yes, thumped it. And said "The Bible is the Word of God and it is true." That's when I had the revelation from God, the immediate, sudden, revelation--God created the universe, Jesus is the son of God, and he was resurrected from the dead. To preface this, this was the stumbling block I had hold up on for ? 12 years after high school. But, I got tired of looking for God or ignoring God. I got tired of waiting for him to come to me. So, I came to him. I said to God, in a 4-month or 6-month period of actively seeking him, "If it's Jesus, I am ready to accept it." Because I was tired of looking for God or waiting for him, as I have said. Within 4 months I went to a little Baptist church and recommitted my thoughts to him, God, after so many years of not knowing. Anyway, just recently I heard a pastor say that if you are searching for God, it is Jesus you are searching for. This is the way it was, Jesus is our access to God. If you want to know God, you have to accept Jesus as just who the Gospel says he is. It is an elegant thing, almost. God created the salvation plan, but we participate in it by coming to God by faith. Fortunately I memorized Bible verses in my youth, and I remembered "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light, and no man comes to the Father but by him." So I decided I was going to have to believe. Shortly after that, God revealed himself to me. After 12 years of searching, and a really intense period of less than six months. Doesn't take long, you just have to want to know. Just ask. God is not against you asking. I love the paraphrase, "When John the Baptist said his worst about Jesus, are you the one?, Jesus said his best about John." I said my greatest fear to God, probably beyond my shame of being seen as not intelligent for believing in Jesus, my fear that I would never know who God was and if these things were true, and if Jesus was true. Anyway, it was. The confirmation, as Ms. Rule has suggested, the sudden confirmation of who God is [when we admit that we believe in Jesus], what God's nature is, and lastly, that millions of Christians have had the exact same experience from the exact same God and Jesus. This is how I know it is true. And a million other things that have happened. Blessed Easter.

Wow! All I have to say after reading that is God bless you and keep you.

It is not uncommon for people to come upon times in their lives when they wonder about these questions on their own.

Who am I?
Where did I come from?
What am I supposed to be doing here?
Is there a possibility I could go somewhere else when I leave here?
Is there a God?

No one tells us to wonder about these things, they sort of automatically cross our minds in one form or another.
The ones who take these questions with any degree of seriousness are like sheep looking for a shepherd to help them out. Then there are those who do not consider taking these questions to any depth. Like goats who are more interested in satisfying their own definition of of what their needs are.

The scriptures go back to the beginning and are a good tool to find out the answers. Organized religions are man's attempt to answer these things but all of them are tainted by the built in failure of asking a man (who is just as weak as you are) for all the answers.

We really need someone who doesn't fit the description of mankind to provide those answers.
That's where the Son of God comes in.

It's not so much that we see our sins as forgiven because of what He accomplished on the cross
(Yes that is a wonderful thing) but rather what having our sins forgiven sets us up to receive.(All the answers to those questions above)

We can now by faith receive a personal relationship with God in the Holy Spirit who will reveal the pictures that the scriptures really paint, and reveal the real intent of our being.

That's why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. It's the only way.

That's my religion from the Heart. and No it's not for everbody.....Just the lost sheep.

Jesus the same yesterday today and forever.

Google it.

Oh, dear... Her 'Vapmyre' worship was less offensive to Our Lord than this....

When I was a teenager, I considered myself "very Christian". I went to services, traveled long distances to attend large revivals, and my faith was enormous.

Then, I hit some hard times, followed by some very interesting philosophy courses in college. I was an athiest for a while, and then agnostic. Now, my faith is enormous again. However, I'm uncertain as to whether or not I consider Jesus as the son of God. I've come to the personal conclusion that this detail is actually trivial compared to his wonderful teachings, and the beautiful message he brought to the world. I don't like my faith being tied down to a specific religious descriptive word or classification. Rather, my faith is my own, and it's bigger to me than any category it could be placed into. I don't call myself a Christian, but I wouldn't say that I'm "not" a Christian, either.

I enjoyed the part of your essay most directly where you mentioned that the barriers between Christians is small, that they have a tendency to criticize each other over details that are trivial compared to the bigger message. I feel that way about all religions. Maybe the Hindus and the Buddhists may also be onto something as well, perhaps celebrate the same greater message of love and understanding in their own cultural way.

I'm not writing to criticize your faith. I believe that such faith is a wonderful thing. But, I am writing to say that I agree with this smaller message of yours, in a much larger scale.

Kudos to you, and happy Easter.

P.S. - I've really enjoyed your books - will probably pick up your more recent works once I have time to actually read again.

Tell us Concerned the Christian Now Liberated- what make Prof. Crossen someone to put their trust in over the Scriptures in the N.T.?

You are lost, my friend. Find the way back to Jesus and your life will be saved.

Tell us Concerned the Christian Now Liberated- what make Prof. Crossen someone to put their trust in over the Scriptures in the N.T.?

You are lost, my friend. Find the way back to Jesus and your life will be saved.

who cares why you are a born again wacko? you're still a born again wacko. you are a religious psychotic, who thinks the world should revolve around your twisted, and unfortunately enabled, beliefs. jesus hates you and those like you.

"What way is this way?"

The gospel of Christ is foolishness to the gentile.

"So surrender the hunger to say you must know
Have the courage to say I believe
For the power of paradox opens your eyes
And blinds those who say they can't see"

Michael Card - God's Own Fool

WOW!
can't believe all the people with the glib comments about God. To realizes the King of the Universe came down to earth as a man with out sin to die for my sins so I could spend eternity in heaven because he loved me that much, then you commentators poking fun at his act of love. You with the heart of stone shame on you and may God Bless you by softening that heart and opening your eyes. Indeed God does not send us to Hell but we chose to go there by our act of refusing salvation.
Thank you Anne
God Bless

"Christ said it would be this way."

What way is this way?

What is God getting out of this setup?

I really do feel like an ass anytime I try to believe and just have faith? Am I just ill?

I don't know because I can't see, I can't see because I don't know. Help me here people.

"We celebrate the Son of Man, who submitted His will voluntarily to the Father's will, became sin for us, in order that those who trust in Him might become righteous before God through Him.

And before He died He asked the Father that those who were given to Him might be with Him, and behold His glory.

For those who see this, it cannot get any better. For those who cannot see this, this is foolishness and greatly offensive.

Christ said it would be this way.

Blessed Easter to all."

What way is this way?

What is God getting out of this setup?

I really do feel like an ass anytime I try to believe and just have faith? Am I just ill?

I don't know because I can't see, I can't see because I don't know. Help me here people.

This is beautiful.

We celebrate the Son of Man, who submitted His will voluntarily to the Father's will, became sin for us, in order that those who trust in Him might become righteous before God through Him.

And before He died He asked the Father that those who were given to Him might be with Him, and behold His glory.

For those who see this, it cannot get any better. For those who cannot see this, this is foolishness and greatly offensive.

Christ said it would be this way.

Blessed Easter to all.

when are christians going to realize that the fable by which they lead their lives is just a fairy tale ignored by 80 percent of the world?

"Look: I believe in Him. It’s that simple and that complex. I believe in Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, the God Man who came to earth, born as a tiny baby and then lived over thirty years in our midst..."
________

Yeah, right. Whatever works for you.

Anthropomorphic silliness.

absolutely amazingly delusional.

How wonderful to see Washington Post online finally presenting someone in defense of Christianity who actually seems to be a genuine believer Christ.

Anne has told us about her experience of the God who is there. Many responses have focused on our so-called rational ability to decide for ourselves whether something beyond ourselves exists, and if so what are its bounds and characteristics.

Do you who argue this way see the incoherence of it? If man decides that man is the measure of all things, that violates the most basic scientific principle. Would you trust a piece of test
equipment that was calibrated against itself? Would you fly on a jet that was maintained with such equipment?

If God exists, we can only know him so far as he chooses to reveal himself. If you summarily shut out the testimony of all who claim to have experienced this revelation, you will have only yourself to blame if you miss the most important fact of our existence, that we exist by and for something/someone far beyond our natural horizon.

Others refuse to make distinctions among Theistic claims, saying that if one concept of God is bad, then all are equally so. Still others come to the opposite conclusion, saying that any claim that one particular concept of God is uniquely true is to be discounted out of hand. The irrational character of both these assertions is self-evident.

If God is there (and I know he is), and you really want to know Him as he is, then look for signposts in this world that point you beyond it. This does not require you to discard your reason. Faith is not against reason, but above it- and working in harmony with it.

Faith is not irrational belief against all evidence, or something proposed and adhered to arbitrarily. These are modern caricatures of it. The Christian concept of faith is not mere belief, but believing and trusting IN something or someone, namely Jesus Christ. Faith has an object, adhered to by the heart, but presented to the mind. The mind grasps this object and comprehends it with reason.

My faith is irretrievably interwoven with my rational apprehension of the world, because faith is a predicate applied to the whole person. Which of us can really separate our reason from other aspects of our being? Can you do that in how you love your children, how you fulfill your sex drive, or how you choose a career path?

For the Christian, reason is not god, but that does not make us irrational. I mentioned signposts above, that point us to a reality beyond us. The Bible is one such signpost. Have you applied your reason to understanding and assessing it, to comparing it against other so-called holy books?

Or have you given it cursory consideration, arriving quickly at conclusions about in consonance with the world view you have acquired through a complex of causes? Answer yourself honestly. How much have you REALLY considered the world view presented by the Bible? It's much easier to just conclude that we're all madmen and brain-dead, we who claim to believe the Bible. To be sure, there are many Christians who lend support to that conclusion, but there are MANY who do not. Do you consider this evidence as well in your assessment of Christianity, that many otherwise sane, rational, intelligent, well-adjusted people are convinced that the Bible is true?

The signposts are there, and Anne Rice is merely one more. You may ignore them at your ease, but it will also be to your great loss and peril. I tell you the Bible is true. Look into it.

Sean Snyder: “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son.”

Why couldn’t God have more children? And why to murder the one he had “for us?” I don’t consider it a big favor to torture someone on my behalf. Pretty gruesome, actually.

Jeff: “Christ had to experience unimaginable emotional and physical pain to get through to us.”

But why? I think we could have understood an offer of Salvation without death on a cross. Besides, Jesus’ death is not so special. Lots of people have suffered horribly throughout their lives, then died even longer and more painful deaths.

Guilt is a grand and blinding motivator.

WOW! I find it so interesting that so many people out there would read an article about Jesus in the first place, since most have never actually read the New Testament. Jesus talks about the dangers of hell even more than he talked of heaven. He came to save us from hell! WHY? Because he loves us. Yep, thats right folks, I'm one of those freaky, "hate filled" right wing Christian fundamentalists. I actually DO believe that those of you who never accept Him as Savior and Lord WILL burn in the lake of fire, traditionally known as HELL. But don't stop reading just yet. Gosh, I must be a nut, right? Unfortunately for you, I am not.

The truth is, because of my faith in Jesus, I cannot hate you. I cannot judge you. My Lord told me to love my enemies and pray for those that hate me. If you read the posts by the believers on this thread, there is no hate, only disagreement with those of you who do not believe. However, we fundamentalists are called irrational, immature, insane, illogical, and full of hate.

Lets evaluate my beliefs and my attitudes. I believe that God created mankind in order to have perfect fellowship with a creature who has free-will. We (mankind) chose to rebel against God even knowing the consequences was death (physically and spiritually). God loved us so much that instead of leaving us to rot, he provided a way (Jesus) that our rebellion (sin) is forgiven. We all put Jesus on that cross. We all share the responsibility. All we must do to be saved is accept God's free gift of forgiveness through Jesus. In doing so, you have restored fellowship with GOD!! Jesus told his disciples to go and spread the good news of God's forgiveness and grace. So that is what I am doing now. You can accept Him or deny Him, its your choice. That's the gospel of Jesus in a nutshell.

So, what is so hateful about that? What is illogical? Insane...? Think about this, if I truly believe these things (and I do) then how could I in good conscience NOT share this message? I would be most evil by keeping the good news to myself, letting those that pass me by go on though their lives never to hear God's saving message. I do not hate you, I will pray for you.

You cannot judge Jesus by all the "churches" that claim to follow him. You cannot judge Jesus because of all sorts of evil that has been done in His name. Don't judge Jesus because some "Christian" that you know is more of a hypocrite than anything else. Seek Him, and He will reveal Himself to you.

So you don't believe anything that I've said right? Those who are "good" go to heaven and those who are "bad" don't, right? Well, I guess we'll discuss that later if your correct. But if you're wrong, well, then enjoy your life, because your eternity is going to be quite uncomfortable.

Happy Resurrection Sunday folks.

I read this not once, not twice, but three times, and I must say, that the ring of truth was never clearer made than in this modest piece. Well done, well said, and God Bless. This is a call to all Christians living everywhere to declare a desire for a clean heart.

And you know, the funny thing here, is that although I know who Anne Rice is, I do not know what her denomination is. It doesn't matter. Christians of all denominations who read this will understand the truth and spirit of humility contained in this message.

Thank You.
r,
B. Spencer.

I read this not once, not twice, but three times, and I must say, that the ring of truth was never clearer made than in this modest piece. Well done, well said, and God Bless. This is a call to all Christians living everywhere to declare a desire for a clean heart.

And you know, the funny thing here, is that although I know who Anne Rice is, I do not know what her denomination is. It doesn't matter. Christians of all denominations who read this will understand the truth and spirit of humility contained in this message.

Thank You.
r,
B. Spencer.

While it's charming that Anne Rice has seen fit to tell us about her faith in her lord, it's worth noting that her lord hasn't seen fit to make her a half-decent writer. Her books are cliche schlock, as is her column here.

While it's charming that Anne Rice has seen fit to tell us about her faith in her lord, it's worth noting that her lord hasn't seen fit to make her a half-decent writer. Her books are cliche schlock, as is her column here.

Thank God it was not the Tooth Fairy or the Great Pumpkin that turned you on!

Excellent and eloquent. - An experience of God, and continual answers to prayer is proof enough, to believe. After years of striving, when I accepted Him, it was sudden, utter peace. Since giving my life to Jesus, My Savior and Lord, I have seen His faithfulness, and witnessed so many miracles for myself and others - small, gentle touches and mighty overwhelming healings and victories. No one can dispute our experience with a God who cares about every detail in our lives. Oh what a gracious Lord. Nothing can separate us from His Love! - Thank you, Anne Rice, for your testimony.

Hail Satan :D

When I realize I'm getting old and scared of dying, my faith grows, like your faith, Ann Rice

Dear Ms Rice

I wish you a wonderful Easter 2008!

Thank you for sharing your faith with the world on this forum. We need more and more atheists who have returned/turned to a faith in God to speak up and share their journey with others. Only so can the world know that faith in God is fully compatible with reason and one does not remain/become a believer because one was brainwashed in childhood.

Keep up your great work! May our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, whose Resurrection we remember and celebrate today, use you as a powerful instrument in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ.

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

Anne, I believe you're a dimwit. With all my heart and soul.

Well, if someone believes in an extraordinary thing, and that person requires no extraordinary evidence that such a thing is true, all I can say is, I understand what you're trying to say, what evidence do you have to support it?

Dear Ann, a wonderful testimonial. Keep your eyes on the crown of life. I will translate this, if you approve, and publish it in my page.
God Bless

Anybody who believes that the world was created in six days and is only 5,000 years old is a member of a cult, pure & simple. No different from folks who worship rocks or trees, Jupiter & Mars. I'm happy that Jesus gives you that feel-good feeling Anne, but too many people have been and are being beaten, discriminated againts, & murdered in his name.

All you're born-again buddies can't stand the thought of it, but the fact was that Jesus of Nazareth was a loud-mouthed liberal, a left-wing lover of the poor, the sick, the powerless, who had women disciples and railed mightlily against the Jewish aristocracy of his time. For that, he was one of thousands just like him that were crucified by the Romans because he was an annoyance. Makes a great movie or two, though.

You are a false prophet and god is a superstition.

Now, pass the milkshake!

Now that you're writing mythology, I hope the gods find your prosy platitudes as entertaining as your former vampire stories.

Yes, Anne! Thank you for sharing your belief. I am a believer also. Wasn't raised in a church. My mother was a twice divorced feminist (after the divorces, of course), and my childhood less than rosey. But one day while driving down the road to college I asked God to let me know if He were real or not. In a moment I sensed His presence and knew that Jesus was indeed His Son, sent for the sins of mankind. Can't explain the moment any better than that except that I was honestly seeking Him and not just venting anger or screaming obscenities at the clouds. He is real. He is risen. You hit a chord and pinched a nerve with many of the bloggers who have yet to experience the Love of the God of Love. His Love answers every pain, hurt, terror, resentment, bitterness, and horror. His Love never fails. It is people who fail when they try to do things their own way instead of Love's way.

Events retold through Genesis do certainly seem to hint towards a more complicated story than that which is commonly supported by modern accepted dogma. Yahweh does indeed lie to Man. In no less than his first act as creator of a new species, Yahweh tells humanity that to eat of the tree of wisdom will bring them death. At that point in the story, it's worth noting that Man accepts the lie and believes it to be truth. Why the need to lie? We could assume that it was some form of test, maybe a plan to examine humanity's loyalty.

However, if we accept that idea, it only raises further questions. Why the presence of the serpent? Would the serpent have been commanded to tempt humanity? If so, then Yahweh is surely unjust to punish humanity as he does. If not, then the serpent exists outside of Yahweh's powers - and is a god not omnipotent? My point is, considering this lie as a test only serves to raise further questions on the validity of Yahweh's claim to godhood.

Let's consider the threat here - death. There seem two schools of dogma that approach this. The first is that of a metaphor, a 'spiritual death', the result of which created the idea of original sin, the shackles by which Yahweh binded his creations for all eternity into the cruel game. This metaphor, however, becomes confused when we bring in later events (often considered pre-destined) such as the death of the Nazarene. The other school is that of literal death, that eating the fruit would literally kill them, eventually, by allowing them to age. We shall debunk this idea later. Let's move on to the serpent.

It seems almost logical that the serpent acts with its own agenda, outside of the greater machinations of any god. Modern interpretations typically state that the serpent was Lucifer, the Shiatan, but this is never stated explicitly in the text. If we accept this as true, however, we have to ask ourselves why Yahweh's adversary is willing to give humanity the truth that their own creator hides from them.

It's easy to understand the idea that the Shiatan acted with the intention of sabotaging Yahweh's creation out of spite, or rage, or arrogance. Yet it is undeniable that he acts with truth, where Yahweh's first act was deception. This in itself, if we consider the reliability of the record, throws into doubt quite a substantial amount of biblical rhetoric. Consider, if you will, the nature of the lie. Yahweh acted to prevent humanity from eating from the Tree of Wisdom. Why?

It is often considered that the consumption of the fruit robbed humanity from their connection with their god. Yet even that makes little real sense. We must ask ourselves, what does 'wisdom' entail? In some translations, the 'wisdom' that the fruit grants them is the understanding of the nature of good and evil. When mankind ate from the fruit, they GAINED something. Wisdom. Understanding of the nature of good and evil. The first thing they gain is awareness of their own nakedness, and then the awareness of the world around them. We could compare this to awakening from a slumber. Quite literally, man gained Free Will. We could say, the serpent gave mankind their awakening.

Follow this path to its conclusion. It seems now that the serpent (who we assume to be Lucifer) has aided humanity. Why would Yahweh NOT want humanity to eat from the Tree of Wisdom? Let's remember that there is another tree, the Tree of Life, mentioned often in Quabbalah. By eating thus, humanity earn life eternal. Yahweh, upon learning of mans disobedience, ushers them from Eden before they can consume the fruit of life. If Yahweh created humanity in his own image, why would he NOT want to grant such wisdom and life to them? Why would he go to such lengths as lie to them, to ensure that they would not attain such?

This second tree, the giver of life, throws into question the nature of the human life in Eden. If, as the second school of thought on the nature of the threat of death (mentioned above) is correct in stating that eating of wisdom would cause man to age and die, then we must assume that prior to this point, man did not age - through the consumption of the fruit of life. Yet as we can see, Yahweh would have no reason to allow man to eat of -either- tree. Without wisdom, and without life, man is rendered a dumb, weak creature; mayhap better than the animals around them, but certainly not by much.

Perhaps the lie, then, is all Yahweh has. Perhaps he lies to humanity because he has invented something that cannot be 'un-made' (and consider, when in biblical text is any person simply un-made by their creator? Even those who are damned continue to exist in some plane of existence or other). The only real purpose for a lie of such level, if not a test, is out of fear. Could Yahweh have created a people so much alike himself that, if by gaining free will and life eternal, they could become alike Yahweh himself? As a creator, wouldn't it be terrifying if your own creation actually surpassed you?

Remember, of course, that later on in the same bible we are recounted the tale of the Tower of Babel, humanity striving to reach godhood and stand equal with their creator. Yahweh destroyed this, not out of anger, but for fear that like Lucifer's own forces, humanity itself will rise up and depose him. The truth painted in the bible is not of a loving deity if we are to consider actions against words; yes, Yahweh tells man that he is a loving god, but also a jealous one, so much so that worship of any other god (and Yahweh, you will note, does not deny the existence of other gods) is forbidden.

If it were so, then it would paint the image of a god no more powerful than an Elohim, one of the higher-ranking archangels. Is the 'God' of Genesis bound by pre-existing laws, so much so that the presence in Eden of both Trees of Wisdom and Life cannot simply be un-made or uprooted for the protection of humanity? If so, then it hints that Yahweh may be no more in power or rank than Lucifer, and perhaps himself child of something far greater.

What matters is, it's the act of Yahweh to lie and deceive humanity for his own ends. It's the act of the serpent to tell the truth to humanity - perhaps for his own ends as well, but the end result is a step towards ascending for humanity. For that step towards apotheosis, should humanity not consider gratitude to the serpent who aided and guided us?

The strong amongst man is guided still. The followers of The Adversary, that which gifted us with enlightenment and the capacity to view the fallacy of the false god, exist and serve in all walks of life. Behind the facade of the polished world, we decry the lies and treachery of Yahweh, that he is but a god in title alone, and give of our support in his desecration. Unlike the worshipers of the false god and his bastard get, the accursed Nazarene, we recognize with the great gift of wisdom and witness. We witness humanity built with the potential not simply to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Yahweh, but to depose him entirely. And for unlocking this understanding, our enlightener was bound in agony - bound, but not un-made, for Yahweh lacks that power - until such times as the breaking of the bonds.

Make no mistake, the mere pain that the bastard Nazarene felt upon the cross was merely a splinter of the agony endured by Our Father, The Adversary, The Shiatan. His followers are Legion. His followers are everywhere. Within every nation, within every workplace, within every government. In our True Fathers name, we work for the day when we shall avenge His torment. We work for the day of apotheosis, when the body of the Nazarene and the soul of Yahweh is torn asunder, and when man reaches his final destined position of godhood. Know this, and forget it not.

Events retold through Genesis do certainly seem to hint towards a more complicated story than that which is commonly supported by modern accepted dogma. Yahweh does indeed lie to Man. In no less than his first act as creator of a new species, Yahweh tells humanity that to eat of the tree of wisdom will bring them death. At that point in the story, it's worth noting that Man accepts the lie and believes it to be truth. Why the need to lie? We could assume that it was some form of test, maybe a plan to examine humanity's loyalty.

However, if we accept that idea, it only raises further questions. Why the presence of the serpent? Would the serpent have been commanded to tempt humanity? If so, then Yahweh is surely unjust to punish humanity as he does. If not, then the serpent exists outside of Yahweh's powers - and is a god not omnipotent? My point is, considering this lie as a test only serves to raise further questions on the validity of Yahweh's claim to godhood.

Let's consider the threat here - death. There seem two schools of dogma that approach this. The first is that of a metaphor, a 'spiritual death', the result of which created the idea of original sin, the shackles by which Yahweh binded his creations for all eternity into the cruel game. This metaphor, however, becomes confused when we bring in later events (often considered pre-destined) such as the death of the Nazarene. The other school is that of literal death, that eating the fruit would literally kill them, eventually, by allowing them to age. We shall debunk this idea later. Let's move on to the serpent.

It seems almost logical that the serpent acts with its own agenda, outside of the greater machinations of any god. Modern interpretations typically state that the serpent was Lucifer, the Shiatan, but this is never stated explicitly in the text. If we accept this as true, however, we have to ask ourselves why Yahweh's adversary is willing to give humanity the truth that their own creator hides from them.

It's easy to understand the idea that the Shiatan acted with the intention of sabotaging Yahweh's creation out of spite, or rage, or arrogance. Yet it is undeniable that he acts with truth, where Yahweh's first act was deception. This in itself, if we consider the reliability of the record, throws into doubt quite a substantial amount of biblical rhetoric. Consider, if you will, the nature of the lie. Yahweh acted to prevent humanity from eating from the Tree of Wisdom. Why?

It is often considered that the consumption of the fruit robbed humanity from their connection with their god. Yet even that makes little real sense. We must ask ourselves, what does 'wisdom' entail? In some translations, the 'wisdom' that the fruit grants them is the understanding of the nature of good and evil. When mankind ate from the fruit, they GAINED something. Wisdom. Understanding of the nature of good and evil. The first thing they gain is awareness of their own nakedness, and then the awareness of the world around them. We could compare this to awakening from a slumber. Quite literally, man gained Free Will. We could say, the serpent gave mankind their awakening.

Follow this path to its conclusion. It seems now that the serpent (who we assume to be Lucifer) has aided humanity. Why would Yahweh NOT want humanity to eat from the Tree of Wisdom? Let's remember that there is another tree, the Tree of Life, mentioned often in Quabbalah. By eating thus, humanity earn life eternal. Yahweh, upon learning of mans disobedience, ushers them from Eden before they can consume the fruit of life. If Yahweh created humanity in his own image, why would he NOT want to grant such wisdom and life to them? Why would he go to such lengths as lie to them, to ensure that they would not attain such?

This second tree, the giver of life, throws into question the nature of the human life in Eden. If, as the second school of thought on the nature of the threat of death (mentioned above) is correct in stating that eating of wisdom would cause man to age and die, then we must assume that prior to this point, man did not age - through the consumption of the fruit of life. Yet as we can see, Yahweh would have no reason to allow man to eat of -either- tree. Without wisdom, and without life, man is rendered a dumb, weak creature; mayhap better than the animals around them, but certainly not by much.

Perhaps the lie, then, is all Yahweh has. Perhaps he lies to humanity because he has invented something that cannot be 'un-made' (and consider, when in biblical text is any person simply un-made by their creator? Even those who are damned continue to exist in some plane of existence or other). The only real purpose for a lie of such level, if not a test, is out of fear. Could Yahweh have created a people so much alike himself that, if by gaining free will and life eternal, they could become alike Yahweh himself? As a creator, wouldn't it be terrifying if your own creation actually surpassed you?

Remember, of course, that later on in the same bible we are recounted the tale of the Tower of Babel, humanity striving to reach godhood and stand equal with their creator. Yahweh destroyed this, not out of anger, but for fear that like Lucifer's own forces, humanity itself will rise up and depose him. The truth painted in the bible is not of a loving deity if we are to consider actions against words; yes, Yahweh tells man that he is a loving god, but also a jealous one, so much so that worship of any other god (and Yahweh, you will note, does not deny the existence of other gods) is forbidden.

If it were so, then it would paint the image of a god no more powerful than an Elohim, one of the higher-ranking archangels. Is the 'God' of Genesis bound by pre-existing laws, so much so that the presence in Eden of both Trees of Wisdom and Life cannot simply be un-made or uprooted for the protection of humanity? If so, then it hints that Yahweh may be no more in power or rank than Lucifer, and perhaps himself child of something far greater.

What matters is, it's the act of Yahweh to lie and deceive humanity for his own ends. It's the act of the serpent to tell the truth to humanity - perhaps for his own ends as well, but the end result is a step towards ascending for humanity. For that step towards apotheosis, should humanity not consider gratitude to the serpent who aided and guided us?

The strong amongst man is guided still. The followers of The Adversary, that which gifted us with enlightenment and the capacity to view the fallacy of the false god, exist and serve in all walks of life. Behind the facade of the polished world, we decry the lies and treachery of Yahweh, that he is but a god in title alone, and give of our support in his desecration. Unlike the worshipers of the false god and his bastard get, the accursed Nazarene, we recognize with the great gift of wisdom and witness. We witness humanity built with the potential not simply to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Yahweh, but to depose him entirely. And for unlocking this understanding, our enlightener was bound in agony - bound, but not un-made, for Yahweh lacks that power - until such times as the breaking of the bonds.

Make no mistake, the mere pain that the bastard Nazarene felt upon the cross was merely a splinter of the agony endured by Our Father, The Adversary, The Shiatan. His followers are Legion. His followers are everywhere. Within every nation, within every workplace, within every government. In our True Fathers name, we work for the day when we shall avenge His torment. We work for the day of apotheosis, when the body of the Nazarene and the soul of Yahweh is torn asunder, and when man reaches his final destined position of godhood. Know this, and forget it not.

How nice. Tell me, Anne, are you still living in that big house? Still raking in those royalty checks? Still rolling in the dough? How much did you give away to the poor this week? How many hours did you spend visiting people in jail? Working in a soup kitchen? How many starving orphans have you adopted?

What's that? You say you haven't done any of those things? Your house is still nice and big and full of expensive things? You've no intention of giving up all your worldly good LIKE JESUS TOLD YOU TO?

Imagine my surprise.

I don't believe in any God but I lead a good life,taking care of my family and the community around.Be human.God is invented to put fear in us,not to bring any good.Priesthood loves Gods because otherwise they can't lead life of leisure with little physical work.George Bush loves Jesus and kills hundreds of thousands of Muslims with his genocide policies.Still so-called evangelics in USA love him.Ordinary living human beings can die in Asia & Africa but unborn babies can't die.

Where is God when Bush attacked Iraq for no valid reason.Where is God when Hitler killed millions of Jews.

Do social service and get a life worthy of praise from people around you and stop bleatings about any God.All Gods were invented by kings with themselves as God ( Abraham,Mohammed,Rama and countless others).If we were living in 2nd or 3 rd century,Bush will be called God !

god is a delusion, there is no evidence or reason to believe any gods exist.

www.godisimaginary.com

study the evidence and reason for yourself you'll see it's a delusion

besides why would you want to follow something so illogical as christianity and so full of hate and intolerance? =/

Griff in MADISON WI USA

peace

god is a delusion, there is no evidence or reason to believe any gods exist.

www.godisimaginary.com

study the evidence and reason for yourself you'll see it's a delusion

besides why would you want to follow something so illogical as christianity and so full of hate and intolerance? =/

Griff in MADISON WI USA

peace

TMI, let's get all this religious crap off the front page of the online WP........!!

Is God somehow more noble than the millions of starving, terrified, disease-ridden children that have been dying every single day since Mr. 'Awesome Majesty and Power' created this 'immense and intricate tapestry' that you seem to be so impressed with?

In a word, yes.

why is my post removed from this board?

http://zeitgeistmovie.com

the truth will set you free.

I'm glad for you Ann, that you have found salvation. However I find your article just as offensive as anyone else trying to tell me what religion I should choose for eternal salvation, whether that be christian, muslim, buddahist, jew, or whatever. I am comfortable in my own skin, I'm a good person, but I am offended by the christianity of this nation, and the way the media plays to it. I would like to remind everyone of this simple quote from a simple man:

When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion.
- Abraham Lincoln

Thank you, Anne. You put many of my thoughts into words in just that one post. May you and your family have a blessed Easter!

-Marc
West Des Moines, IA

I haven't read your book “Jesus….” But, if it is anything like this article then I believe it is brilliant and spiritually uplifting read. Your article is, as you might have guessed are met with crude/venomous criticisms by “few” unfortunate unbelieving people.

Yet, if they only think "how" on earth they came to be on God’s universe….They might honestly want to stop and ponder with a few thought provoking questions like: Our term here on earth is temporary, so we all are on a lease term basis. Meaning, no one owns any of the land, properties, talents and all they possess…Also consider that our Benevolent God gave us this planet earth a part of the vast universe our temporary place rich and bountiful, with breathtaking beauty… Let me ask you atheists out there…. don’t you share in God’s gift everyday? God who has perfectly put everything on schedule day in/out…from sun shine to sun down, from summer, winter, spring, and fall seasons? Seen the intricate design of a snow flake lately? Why beautiful flowers bloom on Spring… then…leaves change colors on Fall…...Or, how about the mere fact that “gravity” makes us stand upright without falling....

Atheist who claims to not believe in GOD only has to see within their beating hearts the answers are right within them. To obstinately remain blinded even as the sun shines through ….. is SIMPLY something I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND… where are the atheist’s illogic’s coming from?….

God our creator...the intelligent designer, the architect, the choreographer, the weather maker, nature's landscaper whom we owe everything, sent HIS only Son, Jesus Christ to meet with us so that we truly believe His omnipotence and saving grace so we can go home to him at the end of our lease here on earth. Jesus’ mission was for us to open up our eyes to GOD… Jesus our Lord, was here on earth to put a face of GOD, to give voice to GOD to give flesh to God so we can touch Him, see His countenance, ...

With Jesus’ death, a new life, His death was a salvific death. We too will be resurrected after our earthly death to continue to live with Him in heaven.

After Jesus’ death almost 2000 years, ago present day believers (including me) receive grace from God in the Eucharist, we consecrate our lives to give GOD a human voice and declare that JESUS is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

GOD BLESS YOU ANN...

LESTAT: Is that from Cat People, or is it Anne Rice? BTW, if you have not seen Cat People, it is a great movie, with much insight.

"An Erotic Fantasy About The Animal In Us All." Nastassja Kinsky, Malcolm McDowell, 1982.

If you haven't seen it, rent it.

Given that all regular people must eventually die, what's the big deal about the all-powerful, eternal God 'coming down' and experiencing 'human death', only to be magically resurrected to his full 'awesome majesty and power' - three days later? On the fourth day he was back in tip-top, 'awesome' shape, ... right?

And why is it such a 'scandal' for God in human form to experience the same suffering and death that regular humans have experienced since the beginning of time?

Is God somehow more noble than the millions of starving, terrified, disease-ridden children that have been dying every single day since Mr. 'Awesome Majesty and Power' created this 'immense and intricate tapestry' that you seem to be so impressed with?

Eeyore:
"All beliefs have the right to have thir articles posted; entreat us, please."

"Okay then! Let's just devote the rest of the month to simpering statements of faith by Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Bokononists, Rastafarians, Jainists, Shintoists, Zoroastrionists, Cao Daists, and whatever other opiate you want to give equal time to.

In fact, the Washington Post can just devote itself entirely to posting heartfelt treatises by followers of various beliefs."

The rest of us can just go around you, no problem.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It always amazes me that someone who is dirgruntled has to ruin it for everyone.

I was excited about this article and the celebration tomorrow until your negatitivty put a damper on it. You have a good evening.

I love my baby Jesus white man with blue eyes and a blond beard who loves me and cares for me and promises me that when I die I will get angel wings and float around in heaven and be happy and get lots of free candy and stuff. Jesus is a nice white man who loves you. He is. He really really is. Thank for you loving me and storing up lots of candy and rides and stuff in Heaven for when I get my halo and wings and white gown when I die. Can't wait. it's gonna be so much fun! Love. Little Cindy.

E favorite: "Dear “Love those Endorphins” – I like eating chocolate too, and motorcycle riding, and of course orgasms.

Tell me, what does this any of this have to do with Christianity, or “being a nasty, revengeful, unforgiving, mean-spirited individual."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It had to do with your definition of being delirious and writing about christianity.

So my point was if "delirious meant "euphoria" those things that I listed included "euphoria" and I would rather feel "euphoria" then "“being a nasty, revengeful, unforgiving, mean-spirited individual."

It is about having a good attitude, and the things that I listed give me an euphoric feeling; plus some other things that is not appropriate to list here.

Anyway, you get my point?? Incidently, I forgot to buy a chocolate bunny for myself for tomorrow. :~(

Let them try to censor me now that their riches are secure. In 100,000 years of life on this sphere, I have discovered no answers to the true beginning of life, nor the true destiny of man.

Do not be fooled by religion. The saviors, messiahs, and buddhas over the millenia did not possess these answers either.

The Undead live forever, and everyone is undead.

You will need to find the answer for yourself.

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes.

But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

Mathew Chacko: - How nice that your lord has been so good to you. Why so you suppose he’s let others suffer in poverty and disease and die horrible deaths?

Love thy neighbor. Honor thy mother and father. Offer the other cheek. etc. etc. etc.

I practice all of the above yet do not believe in god or jesus or what have you. Why should I? what difference does it make?

"All beliefs have the right to have thir articles posted; entreat us, please."

Okay then! Let's just devote the rest of the month to simpering statements of faith by Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Bokononists, Rastafarians, Jainists, Shintoists, Zoroastrionists, Cao Daists, and whatever other opiate you want to give equal time to.

In fact, the Washington Post can just devote itself entirely to posting heartfelt treatises by followers of various beliefs.

The rest of us can just go around you, no problem.

Dear “Love those Endorphins” – I like eating chocolate too, and motorcycle riding, and of course orgasms.

Tell me, what does this any of this have to do with Christianity, or “being a nasty, revengeful, unforgiving, mean-spirited individual?”

"I believe in [the tooth fairy]. It’s that simple and that complex. I cannot convince anyone of it by reason, anymore than a [dentist] can convince me, by reason, that there is no [tooth fairy]."

Eeyore: "Anne, thank you so much for bestowing upon us this stupid, mushy pablum. And thank YOU, Washington Post, for descending to the level that you actually print it. I'm astonished. This is not one of your brighter days. You used to be a NEWSPAPER."
~~~~~~

All beliefs have the right to have thir articles posted; entreat us, please.

Matt, "I often wonder if we as humans lack the strength to accept the possible truth that we simply do not have the answers, and do not possess the capability to obtain that knowledge. And the millions of people who are not strong enough to live without knowing the answer rely on a 2000 year old faith."
~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree with you to an extent, however that 2000 year old religion is beleived by most because personally we can attest to the basis of its truth in our lives.

But yes, I beleive that we do not have all tha answers scientifically and there is much to be learn.

Anne, thank you so much for bestowing upon us this stupid, mushy pablum. And thank YOU, Washington Post, for descending to the level that you actually print it. I'm astonished. This is not one of your brighter days. You used to be a NEWSPAPER.

I'm a little confused. Is this the same Anne Rice that wrote about vampires and sex between angels and people on earth?

I'm glad that she found Christ again but I wonder does this mean she will not be writing about those subjects anymore? Its hard to reconcile how you believe in two different things.

An intersting article... I do have a question though...

As background, I consider myself an agnostic. I was raised Presbyterian, attended church almost every Sunday with my family from childhood, attended a Presbyterian college. I made a transition to my agnostic beliefs over an 8 year period during the ages of 22-30.

To the question - in your paragraph you speak of the complexities of the universe ("the double helix and the snowflake", etc). I find that many people who profess to believe in God and Christ often use this reasoning as a basis for their faith. The fact that the universe and everything in it are so complex that the only explanation is that there is a supreme being responsible for creation. Have you considered an alternative explanation? That we as human beings, at this stage in our development, have yet to possess suffient knowledge to explain the answers to these complex questions. Questions like our existence, our purspose, where we came from?

consider what we didn't know 2000 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or even 500 years ago. We as human beings have a long way to go in our developement.

I often wonder if we as humans lack the strength to accept the possible truth that we simply do not have the answers, and do not possess the capability to obtain that knowledge. And the millions of people who are not strong enough to live without knowing the answer rely on a 2000 year old faith.

I am interested in your perspective.

Thank you.

Janet V: "I am not Christian, but I do fervently believe we can all get along. I applaud Ms. Rice for saying what she believes, and why. We should all of us, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu and Pagan alike, know why we believe what we do. An unexamined life is not worth living, and an unexamined faith is not worth believing."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Janet, your post id good truth.

Anne, thank you for writing. Your words reveal the truth in your heart. I also believe. Once you know how much our God loves each of us, we are never the same. It is that love that sustains us. God is with us! God bless the works of your hands!

Michal: "I find it a nice article. Critical thinking is important to avoid fanaticism, however, I have a feeling that many readers commenting here fail to understand the concept of belief. Even the meaning of the word escapes them."

**************

Then by all means educate us, please.

Most religions require obedience to ritual.

Christianity is the only faith that transforms through belief in a personal Risen Messiah. It requires only faith and relationship.

Anne Rice's life is true witness to this. She has made an overwhelming (humanly impossible) change in her life. She is making worldly sacrifices- not through obedience to ritual or law but in response to her love of Jesus and his greater personal LOVE for her.

Her experience brings Life to words-

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

stitt, "And if so, don't be so unfair to others. How about Sasquatch?
The Nodic gods? The awol Iman? Scientology?
The millions of Hindu and Shinto dieties? Jeeze, whatever happened to diversity?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Other religions take up more space then Christianity. In fact, this is the first one based on belief in Christ that I haveseen posted here in a while.

Its just like the non-blievers to cry and whine when a Christ ceneterd article is posted.

Don, "Sounds like a great religion to me."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Me too. God doesn't deny anyone, however he does despise the act of sin known as homosexuality.

As far as women, I know of no rigths that God denies. please give examples.

I find it a nice article. Critical thinking is important to avoid fanaticism, however, I have a feeling that many readers commenting here fail to understand the concept of belief. Even the meaning of the word escapes them.

Simon,

I agree with you that Christians have the burden of proof. As such, many books have been written to document the historicity of the new testament, and the life of Jesus.

My point is that, after Christians have presented their argument, backed up by evidence and logic, the counter-arguments should also include evidence and logic.

Several authors have documented the amount of manuscripts, and their reliability. As you probably know, the new testament is the piece of literacy with more manuscripts available, which helps to corroborate the historicity of it. It is alos the piece of literacy with its ancient manuscript closer to the actual events (about 30yrs). Please note that no other piece of literary work has as many manuscripts, nor a manuscript closer to the events, than that of the new testament.

One book thast present such evidence is the "Making of the New Testament". But that is beside my point.

don distef:
OBAMA CAN NOT EVEN CONFRONT HIS OWN PASTOR AND BRING HIM TOGETHER WITH THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY SO HOW WILL HE BRING ANYONE ELSE TOGETHER, WHAT A PILE OF BS.

THIS MAN IS A JOKE AND A FRAUD!

I AM A REPUBLICAN AND I WILL TAKE HILLARY AND BILL OFVER OBAMA OR MCCAIN ANY DAY.

CHANGE IS THE CLINTON GLOBAL INITIATIVE. NOT BS RHETORIC WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE REAL POWERS OF OFFICE. OBAMA HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING. WAKE UP!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Truely spoken!

I don't understand why Ms. Rice limited God's gift to us as "ONE of the greatest love stories"...

I say it is THE greatest love story because no other love story provides salvation. Add the fact that Christ had to experience unimaginable emotional and physical pain to get through to us.

Billions of people believe in this religion that sanctioned wars, tortured people, forced people to convert under pain of death. This is the same religion that denies rights to women and homosexuals. It is the same religion that did not protest when millions of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and others were killed by the Hitler.

Sounds like a great religion to me.

DON

There are lots of gullible people in the world --
a majority, in fact. They believe because . . . ,
well, they believe. That's the full depth, breadth,
and precision of their evidence for whatever belief
they profess.

So be it. It is after all, thank the secularists, a free country.

But must you give valuable news space for them
to splash their random ravings around like this?

And if so, don't be so unfair to others. How about Sasquatch?
The Nodic gods? The awol Iman? Scientology?
The millions of Hindu and Shinto dieties? Jeeze, whatever
happened to diversity?

If you're going to print this sort of thing, then
equal time, please.

Anne
Thank you forever more for your truely spirit- filling message of our love for Christ and his love for us. This is one of the simplest yet complete, awe inspiring interpetations of our existence, why we are alive in this world. Thank you and please know that I have printed this in hopes that my family will read and understand too the possibilites of life with trust in the Lord. It can be so uncomplicated if we BELIEVE in Him. I pray for our lack of faith and for the desire to know.
God Bless you

Thank you, Anne. What a special thing to read this Easter-eve. Blessings to you!

There are lots of gullible people in the world --
a majority, in fact. They believe because . . . ,
well, they believe. That's the full depth, breadth,
and precision of their evidence for whatever belief
they profess.

So be it. It is after all, thank the secularists, a free country.

But must you give valuable news space for them
to splash their random ravings around like this?

And if so, don't be so unfair to others. How about Sasquatch?
The Nodic gods? The awol Iman? Scientology?
The millions of Hindu and Shinto dieties? Jeeze, whatever
happened to diversity?

If you're going to print this sort of thing, then
equal time, please.

Simon:
RPC,

"Keep believing that since it settles your conscience. I was a born-again Christian for 9 years before I opened my mind and woke up. I've seen the supposed "evidence". Sorry, it doesn't measure up. Only those inside the belief system hold the view that the Bible is all backed up by historical evidence. Unbiased secular scholars do not draw the same conclusion."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once a "born again" Christian is a now "backlslider" whose eyes and mind ar e"darken to the truth"

Anne Rice is nothing more than the worst kind of Christian bigot. She insults decent Christians
with her foul retoric and verbal abuse. She talks the good talk, doesn't she, yet has no understanding of what a real Christian-inspired person is. Get lost, Ms. Rice, you're a loser.

There are lots of gullible people in the world --
a majority, in fact. They believe because . . . ,
well, they believe. That's the full depth, breadth,
and precision of their evidence for whatever belief
they profess.

So be it. It is after all, thank the secularists, a free country.

But must you give valuable news space for them
to splash their random ravings around like this?

And if so, don't be so unfair to others. How about Sasquatch?
The Nodic gods? The awol Iman? Scientology?
The millions of Hindu and Shinto dieties? Jeeze, whatever
happened to diversity?

If you're going to print this sort of thing, then
equal time, please.

Once again:

Happy Bunny Day to you since Easter did not happen!!

Can you still be a Christian without the Resurrection? There are too many flaws in the current Christian orthodoxies to include the resurrection story.

Clean it up and see what is left historically and then redefine Christianity.

Some facts:

1) From an analyses of the documents by many contemporary NT exegetes:

The Resurrection is fiction i.e. it was added to make Jesus akin to the Caesars and Greek half gods/half men.

(1a) Mark 8:31-33 = Matt 16:2l-23 = Luke 9:22, (1b) Mark 9:9b = Matt 17:9b, (1c) Mark 9:12b = Matt 17:12b, (1d) Mark 9:30-32= Matt 17:22-23 = Luke 9:43b-45, (1e) Luke 17:25, (1f) Mark 10:32-34 = Matt 20:17-19 = Luke 18:31-34, (1g) Matt 26:1-2, (1h) Mark 14:21 = Matt 26:24 = Luke 22:22, (1i) Mark 14:41= Matt 26:45b,(1j) Luke 24:7

Conclusion: Many references but only a single attestation and from the Second stratum (60-80 AD).

http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/017_Resurrection_of_Jesus

2) From the course notes of a large Catholic university's graduate theology class:

"Heaven is a Spirit state (no physical bodies abide).

Christ's and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven. For one thing, Paul in 1 Cor 15 speaks of the body of the dead as transformed into a "spiritual body." No one knows exactly what he meant by this term.

Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

The physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's
corpse) into heaven did not take place.

The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has
multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would
be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female
bodies."

Amazing how this agrees with Professor Crossan and many other contemporary NT exegetes' conclusions based on attestations and stratums.

Some added thoughts:

According to Reimarus as referenced in R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

"Reimarus (1774-1779) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

From: K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998. p.55

"Stories circulated to the effect that Alexander of Macedonia was not only the son of Philip II, but also of the god Zeus-Ammon (Plutarch, Parallel Lives, "Alexander" 2.1-3.2); Plato was the son of Ariston and the god Apollo (Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers 3.1-2), and Augustus was the son of Octavius as well as the god Apollo (Suetonius, Lives o f the Caesars 2.4.1-7). The extraordinary character of these elites reputedly stemmed from both their divine origins and their kingroups. Their kin-groups provided one form of legitimation-political right to the throne and/or social status (thus the importance of Joseph in Matthew's genealogy). Their divine procreation provided another: their honor was divinely ascribed, and their greatness as leaders derived from divine paternity."

OBAMA CAN NOT EVEN CONFRONT HIS OWN PASTOR AND BRING HIM TOGETHER WITH THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY SO HOW WILL HE BRING ANYONE ELSE TOGETHER, WHAT A PILE OF BS.

THIS MAN IS A JOKE AND A FRAUD!

I AM A REPUBLICAN AND I WILL TAKE HILLARY AND BILL OFVER OBAMA OR MCCAIN ANY DAY.

CHANGE IS THE CLINTON GLOBAL INITIATIVE. NOT BS RHETORIC WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE REAL POWERS OF OFFICE. OBAMA HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING. WAKE UP!!!!

RPC,

Keep believing that since it settles your conscience. I was a born-again Christian for 9 years before I opened my mind and woke up. I've seen the supposed "evidence". Sorry, it doesn't measure up. Only those inside the belief system hold the view that the Bible is all backed up by historical evidence. Unbiased secular scholars do not draw the same conclusion.

A supernatural being that serves blood to his followers to whom Ann Rice is devoted -- hmmmm

A supernatural being that serves blood to his followers to whom Ann Rice is devoted -- hmmmm

steve wells, "Ms Rice must have used a different set of books than the ones I have for her many years of historical research and study of the story of god and jesus. And just because billions, as she says, have believed the story does not make it true. There is not one shred of credible evidence that the jesus she professes to believe in ever existed, and if there is a god we know absolutely nothing about him or his nature. Everything christianity teaches about god and jesus is pure speculation."
~~~~~~~~

Nice try but no cigar! There is plenty of history to substantiate Christ birth, death, and resurrection.

"Don't kid yourself. You and everyone else (including me) have a fundamental desire for belonging and acceptance. Christianity happens to be the biggest and baddest club out there and when the little clubs come along, you like to feel better about yourselves by calling them names (cults) and throwing fits and tantrums (brimstone and fire)."
!~~~~~~~~~~~

What a crock, Christian did not write the bible. So anything regarding "fire and brimstone" needs to be taken up with the author of the same, God.

Stop fasley accusing Chrisitan because you have a underlying anger at God for his method of judging certain sins and non-believers.

Thank you for sharing this clear commentary on personal faith.

Althouth I haven't written any books since my personal awakening, I have been privileged to share my faith on many occasions.

How very kind of you to do so at this time.

Don't kid yourself. You and everyone else (including me) have a fundamental desire for belonging and acceptance. Christianity happens to be the biggest and baddest club out there and when the little clubs come along, you like to feel better about yourselves by calling them names (cults) and throwing fits and tantrums (brimstone and fire). Because you guys were the best at getting members here in America, you guys surely do feel better about yourselves. Not to say this doesn't apply to the contrapositive! There are many out there who like to join the "let's not believe in religion" group because it feels kewl to be part of that club because you feel as if you're "different" but still "same" because you're in a "different same" club! You see how it works?

Btw, to assume that "atheists" and their "reason" are nothing like you religious folks, if you REALLY think hard about it, you will find that religious people are the worst culprits of using "reason" but their version of reason is a bit less refined and a bit more susceptible to flaws.

Oh, and just because you say you have "triumphed" over this "reason", does it make you feel better about yourself? Are you so petty as to seek affirmation through a response to some weird editorial rather than seeking GODS AFFIRMATION by actually doing something like going after those bad people that you are afraid to really write about for fear of retribution?

Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading the erotica you wrote under the name A.N. Roquelaure. Talk about doing unto others and loving your enemies. Great stuff.

Simon:
RPC,

"No, you are mistaken, what awful logic. The burden of proof is on those who say Christianity is true, not those who say there is a lack of evidence for it.

If I claim Martians are about to attack the Earth, can I say the doubters have to prove that I am wrong, that the burden of proof is on them?? If I make such an outlandish claim, surely the burden of proof is on me, not them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no history to prove that there are Martins, however there is history that proves biblical happenings and occurences.

martins do not count. That is a fer-fetched example.

Ms Rice must have used a different set of books than the ones I have for her many years of historical research and study of the story of god and jesus. And just because billions, as she says, have believed the story does not make it true. There is not one shred of credible evidence that the jesus she professes to believe in ever existed, and if there is a god we know absolutely nothing about him or his nature. Everything christianity teaches about god and jesus is pure speculation.

Jesus is Human.

How can a Human be a God!

If human's fight on earth, why then, they would fight in the sky.

There is not evidence of God's fighting.

Therefore, there is either no God or

There is one God!

Why would God be 3, father, son and spirit!

This world has too many repetitive things at the same time each is different.

No way that happened by itself.

Therefore, there is a God.

God is only one.

Wake up and stop being lost.

Believe in one God, the one who really is a God.

The God who really can create and do things.

Jesus was just human. Humans don't fly.

Do you think that if there is a God,

And God is only one,

Do you think that God needs.

Having a Son is a need. That is only human.

If you have everything, why do you need a Son.

that he would creat us for play?

or that he created us to put us in a real test.

A test that if we pass, we would be rewarded.

If he would appear before us, the test would be broken.

The true test is for him to not appear, but give us all the signs.

The sign of his creations.

Remember, God is one, does not need a son.

However, he would like us to pass the test.

So he sends us

Mohammad,
Jesus, "Isa"
Moses, "Musa"
Joseph, "Yosof"
Jacob, "Yaaqoob"
Isaac, "Is-haq"
Ibrahim, "Ib-raheem"
.... many many many others thousands of profits
Noah, "Noooh"
Adam "Adam"

Why would he choose Jesus to be the favorite and make him

a SON ?????????????

He is just a man ....

wake up ... how lost can you be

And if you think that there is no heaven and no hell ..

well .. may be you are ok ..

there is no reason to live .. why don't you kill your self ..

because life is not that much fun anyways

but if there is a God .. well have you

done your homework ????

Have you done your Job ???

Can you get money without working ???

Can you learn without going to school or reading a book or watching the environment ???

were is your mind ???

Do you think this life is a Game? Who's game is it?

If so,

God or yours?

The message of the cross is foolishness...isn't that what the Bible says? It is interesting that some people reading your article see it as exactly that. I, along with many others posted here, agree with this "foolishness". It is a message that is spiritually discerned--which is what you seem to have described in your coming to know and understand that Jesus is the Christ.

I would say to those who are considering your confession to be foolish to stop repeating what they've been taught and to consider "what if".
What if all you say in your testimony is TRUE?
What if all the Bible declares about the Christ is for real?
Isn't it an amazing and outrageous claim?
Isn't it a stumbling block and foolish to consider such a claim?
But ...what if...

What if people would stop and consider that the message of Christ and relationship with Christ is to be received and understood on another level--in the heart--the place where all that matters, matters...
What if your testimony would bring just ONE more closer to faith?
Would these stripes you've borne in these posts be worth it?
I'd say you'd say: why YES!

By his stripes we are healed...
what if...
G..

Posted on March 22, 2008 20:00

Paul Kennedy: ""There's a sucker born every minute and two born to take him (or her)!""

~~~~~~~~~~~~
And you are the sucker, I presume.

How the belief in any specific god or religion can survive globalization, I'll never know. Even if you reject the athiest arguments, does it occur to you that there is someone in another country speaking another language, reading some other holy book who is as devout as you are about another god/prophet? Are you right and they're wrong (and therefore damned) or are you both fantasizing? How many more wars should we have to iron this ridiculous argument out?

Humanity will--of necessity to global peace and prosperity--inevitably outgrow this nonsense; everything else just perpetuate historical turmoil, suffering, and death.

RPC,

No, you are mistaken, what awful logic. The burden of proof is on those who say Christianity is true, not those who say there is a lack of evidence for it.

If I claim Martians are about to attack the Earth, can I say the doubters have to prove that I am wrong, that the burden of proof is on them?? If I make such an outlandish claim, surely the burden of proof is on me, not them.

How convenient for you to simply put the burden of proof on those who question that there is any evidence for this mythical religion. The burden of proof is on you, RPC, because you claim this belief system is true without any evidence. Sorry I didn't fall into your trap.

"There's a sucker born every minute and two born to take him (or her)!"

HOW REFRESHING TO LOG ON MY COMPUTER AND SEE THIS MESSAGE AT THE TOP OF THE BOARD , INSTEAD OF THE TRIVIAL THINGS THAT ARE USUALLY FIRST AND FORMOST ....

Most criticism I hear aimed at Christianity centers around "how dare you say yours is the only way". As a Christian, I admit it up front to be a fair and accurate statement. Christianity, based on the teachings of Christ, does indeed to claim to have the only way to God. What Anne says here, to me, is not that we need to go convince everyone else it is the only way, but rather that we need to live our own lives as if we believe it to be the only way. If we trust God and do that, then the world can judge for themselves. After all, God lets everyone make up their own mind; all we need to is live our lives as if we actually trust the God we claim to believe in.

Another courageous, hard-hitting, journalistic piece from the WaPo.

Paul, "When I read C. S. Lewis's *Mere Christianity* a few years ago, it became obvious to me that the call of God to us (or at least me) was to give my all for God"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am glad that you gave you life to God. I too have questions unanswered; however I don’t put much stock in C.L. Lewis as the be all and end all of the definition of Christianity.

What I do know is God is real to me. Most recently, certain people I know have been putting me down and criticized me regarding my belief. This and other life circumstances have caused me to question my faith and to question where my God is in all this?

I have prayed and asked God to put these people out of my life. I wish that he would "do away" with them because of they have caused me such great pain and continually humiliated and tormented me for the past several months. I literally "hate" them all. The more I attempt to love them, as my enemies the more they find fault with me and criticize my efforts.

All I can surmise is that "this too shall pass and one day I will see and remember them no more and as Joseph said in Genesis 41:51-52,

-"{51} And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: For God, said he, hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house. {52} And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.

From what I have gotten to know about God over the past years is quoted the best if the following scripture,

Psalm 91, 1-10, {1}He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. {2}I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. {3} Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. { 4} He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. {5} Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; {6} Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. {7} A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. {8} Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. {9} Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; {10} There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Keep the faith brother, for all those that live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

Praise the Lord! This article was an encouragement to me, and I am simply stunned to find it here. Jesus Christ is Lord and the Lord of my life. He has redeemed me and has always been faithful. God is so good! It is wonderful to read this article. Thank you, Ann, and God bless you.

Thank You

Anne, that was simply beautiful. As a Christian myself, I was deeply touched by your wonderful and ongoing experience with the greatness, wonder and majesty of the Lord. Your encouragement to trust Him is refreshing. Indeed, trusting the Lord Jesus Christ is everything. Bless you, sister!

Anne Rice's passion for her religion is undeniable, but she seems to conclude from her reconnection with Christ that all we need for a peaceful world is for all people to "believe and seek to trust" Christ as "billions" already do. The problem here as with all proselytizing religions is the absoluteness of the assumption that ours is the way not yours... not you billions who believe equally as fervently in your own paths to God.
My question to Ms Rice is how are we to be sure He has chosen your group over the rather larger group of Islam (who also happen to think everyone needs to be in their group) or the previously promised chosen group, the Jews (who already being 'chosen' don't feel the need to persuade more into their group)
Anyway, you get my point, belief/faith/trust it's ALL PERSONAL, and should be so... she's a great writer and I'm a fan, but she gushes here with the logic of a teenager's crush.

Thank you -

Simon:

You should apply the same standard, that you demand of the article, to yout post.

That is, what evidence, and rational argument do you have to back up your argument that Christianity is false? Without evidence, or logic argument, your post is just merely an opinion, and not a piece of truth.

Thank you for your thoughts. Reading through the posts I guess I found it interesting that so many people seem so concerned about what you believe and whether or not you should.

Thanks for presenting your perspective in a way that helps me understand where you are coming from.

Ms. Rice makes the point that she will not change her mind on the subject of Christ being a deity, and, by her own admission, does not expect by her article to change the mind of anyone holding an opposing viewpoint. I accept her views describing the nature of immutable, unsubstantiated belief and share them. But why then is she writing about her unwavering theory publicly? If no discussion is possible, and I heartily agree that is true, what possible value is there in her discussing it? To make herself feel better about being, in a word, closed-minded (I do sort of get it that Ann is made rapturously happy by the concept of a God-man)? Is she actually writing to exhort fellow Christians to yet more evangelical fervor as she claims??? I cannot believe this is actually possible, one of this fabulously creative Christian culture is the leader of the FREE WORLD for a little longer and has invaded other NATIONS killing hundreds of thousands (go ahead, question my numbers if it makes you feel better) of CIVILIANS based on his conversations with GOD for Christ’s sake (not blasphemy in this context, surely,) and I do not actually believe that this is Ms. Rice's actual mission in any event -though, perhaps, she is this callow? I know real estate agents who are likewise extraordinarily faithful.

I'm not the first one to question the unspoken precept that a divided culture coexisting with two totally divergent worldviews is even a remote possibility, for uncountable people throughout history have scratched their (heads) and yawned when foreign, "Christian" missionaries showed up with boxes of bras and bibles. What those now absent people fatally overlooked was that the missionaries were inevitably followed, accompanied by, or were themselves armed men who weren't content to simply agree to disagree as Ms. Rice apparently believes our happy divided culture should proceed. Those of us who think at all are well aware of the inevitable fate of the non-believers so you will forgive me if her cheerful tone does not stir paroxysms of joy in me. God may, as Ms. Rice suggests, be with every single soul, but CLEARLY he treats some of these souls FAR more cavalierly than others even to the point of vaporizing children (I missed that part in Matthew, but I’m confident it’s there somewhere. The Bible and the God-man myth has been written and rewritten many times by many people for nothing more divine than their own ends*. Many busy hands are scratching out, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and writing, "Thou Shalt Not Do Murder" even as I write this. A small thing, perhaps, but if ever there was an immutable precept, surely this is (was) the one.)

I personally won't ever blindly follow the same mistaken thinking that Ms. Rice enjoys, I hope you don't either, though I wouldn't deign to change anyone's mind on the subject it's just something I felt like writing at length about here... for no particular reason. I mean no harm by it, of course, so please don’t shoot or bomb me, God. Neighbor?

The end is, indeed, near, dear friends, but the *end I refer to is my hairy, Irish ass, (I refer explicitly here to, Shamus, a gray, long-haired, useless, but lovable beast I acquired from a true-believer in Tipperary, lest any innocent party feel I was abusing their modesty by misusing the language.)

I am not Christian, but I do fervently believe we can all get along. I applaud Ms. Rice for saying what she believes, and why. We should all of us, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu and Pagan alike, know why we believe what we do. An unexamined life is not worth living, and an unexamined faith is not worth believing.

Brethren-

Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and Truth.

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree", that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I don't get it.

Why are you picking on this one historical
personage, Anne??

Many humans over the ages have realized the divinity in their own brains/heads.

Why are you singling out this particular one of Jesus ??

Give the guy a break..........

Thank you, Anne! Your words are eloquent and honest. A true experience with Christ is life changing. You are right, He is beyond reason--yet so worth reaching out to in this life! I am forwarding your thoughts to my kids. How wonderful to find this in Google News today!

Puuuleeeze. Take 2 marshmallow easter eggs and call me in the morning.

And your personal reason for being a religious fanatic is?

God is certainly real, no argument there. Now if you can manage to put aside all that you've been told about what God is, and go back to that experience and see only what you really saw and not what you added in, then you'll understand. Right now you don't. You're still trying to make physical, concrete sense of the ineffable and that's like trying to spray a coat of house paint on a cloud.

stupid article. your faith is ridiculous. use your brain and suspend belief.

OK what Anne writes about has nothing to do with the church or Christ.

The bible is the only source to learn the last will and testament of Christ and there's nothing about this spontaneous "returning" to Christ to be found.

You must hear or read the word. Believe it. Repent, and be baptized. Then live faithfully unto death and you willl receive a crown of life.

There's no sinners prayer or interleading of the holy spirit. Read God's word instead of making up this emotional denominational mumbo jumbo.

The catholic church and it's history is no reflection of the church Christ purchased with His blood on the day of Pentacost.

His kingdom was and is alive today. It is the church (comprised of the churches) or Christ. Seek one out that is sound and learn the truth instead of ever learning yet never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Amen Sister! Meet you in heaven on faith with Jesus My Savior, My God, My Redeemer, My Friend, Three in One
Ryan

Nuke Afghanistan? Uh, no. Instead, let's send all our bible thumpers there to liven the place up.

Hallejuah! She just sold another copy of new book and the paperback of the old one!!

Just in time for Easyter, too.

Hallejuah!!

Anne, how do you know that your religion is more valid than the thousands of other religions in the world, and that it is not a myth? What evidence do you have? Let's take a look at what the "Lord" has done in your life, quoting your story:

"It transformed my existence completely; it changed the direction of the journey I was traveling through the world." -Yes, if you confine yourself to reading the Bible, praying, going to church, and trying to conform to biblical commands, I think it would tend to change the direction you are going. But do we need to believe in mythical stories to change our lives?

"On the afternoon in 1998 when faith returned, I experienced a sense of the limitless power and majesty of God that left me convinced that He knew all the answers to the theological and sociological questions that had tormented me for years." -I believe this is similar to what happens when a child is reading a story or watching a movie that takes their mind into a fantasy land. Another example is a dream. The mind produces all kinds of strong feelings when you're believing a fantasy. The feelings don't correspond to reality. You are basing your entire belief system on such feelings!!

Anne, how can you believe such things in an age when you have all the means at your disposal to think rationally and obtain all kinds of information? I'm sorry that you plunged back into the Christian myth. It was created long ago by religious leaders who exploited followers for their own gain. And now, 1900 years later, you are letting them bamboozle you again? You should know better.

Amen Sister! Meet you in heaven on faith with Jesus My Savior, My God, My Redeemer, My Friend, Three in One
Ryan

Why do you need, God, Christ, faith or any other form of control to 'be a good person?'

Are you suggesting that since I don't believe in Christ; I am less informed than you, or just plain wrong? Why am I the 'lost' one; when you have to give up rational thought to achieve faith? Why is your religion better than any other?

Why do you just say;
"Oh, it's too big, too hard, too complex for me to understand; it must be God."

And then feel now that you believe in God that;
"Everything makes sense when you trust in God"

Yeah, everything does get easier when you give up critical thinking for being laziness.

Humanity doesn't require religion; that should be enough proof.

what a wonderful message. thank you, and enjoy Easter; Christ has risen.

for those who doubt Christ. Explain how the human ear is formed and works as it does. a God does exist. and i think that Jesus is the son of that God.

i have sent your message to my son and daughter. Thank you again...

Thanks Anne: Trust is the most difficult human emotion, but one that will find us eternal life. Blessed Easter. Ed

Dear Anne Rice,
THANK YOU! Somehow, we come to the way, the truth and the light ~ despite all of our "intelligence." This Word meant so much to me.
God Bless,
Patricia Stenson Knutson

I have a question for all you Richard Dawking types who feel this should not be published in the WP or as 'news' should we then too, ban Dawkins, Sam Harris and his ilk? Or is it just any public religious expression that should be banned or 'done somewhere else" as poster "john galt" (talk about a fanatical 'religion' objectivists called for (literally) nuking afghanistan)

Jesus saves, as the mind withdraws.

Does the world need to come together in a common spirit of love and compassion? Yes. Does Ms. Rice's faith conversion hasten that moment? Who knows. Does she conveniently edit out the church's abysmal history of achieving the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth? Absolutely. Hard to trust what has achieved the opposite.

I'm not versed in all the geological locations mentioned in the Bible, I believe the Word and its Truth and mainly John 3:16 that God loves the world and all salvation is through Jesus Christ and I believe that along with my family.
Thank you.
Lucien Beauley,

For I know that my redeemer liveth and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: Job 19:25

Ms.Anne Rice,
Thank you for you inspirational words to me on this the greatest day in human history: The resurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Because HE lives I have Life. God is real and personal. HE created us for relationship, a relationship based on love and respect for HIM, ourselves, and each other.
He loved us so much He gave us free choice in all of our relationships. So the problems here are by the choices we have made individually and as a collective. But even now in our poor choices He is quick to forgive and turn things around if we will turn to Him for our strength and help. That is resurrection power. He Lives
Kevin

I thought this was a tasteful article. I have found a similarly tasteful blog recently, and I would encourage those who appreciate open-mindedness in the realm of religious discourse to check it out.
The link is as follows:
http://thinkersaccord.blogspot.com/2008/02/theism-agnosticism-and-atheism.html

If nothing else it is worth the read for the fairness it treats the subject.

Ms.Anne Rice,
Thank you for you inspirational words to me on this the greatest day in human history: The resurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Because HE lives I have Life. God is real and personal. HE created us for relationship, a relationship based on love and respect for HIM, ourselves, and each other.
He loved us so much He gave us free choice in all of our relationships. So the problems here are by the choices we have made individually and as a collective. But even now in our poor choices He is quick to forgive and turn things around if we will turn to Him for our strength and help. That is resurrection power. He Lives
Kevin

Okay fine. But can't you do this somewhere else?

Thank you Lord You have risen!!! I am here to say that YES my Lord is alive and well, He is living inside me! No matter what the struggles i may have each day i know that God will never leave me; but He is making me stronger and stronger. And as i carry my cross each day; i ask the Lord to never cut a piece off of it. I want to carry it no matter how heavy the load, because i know that when i come to a valley and need to walk over it my cross is there to help me along!!! God is good, and He has brought me out of bondage and sin. I am still a baby Christian but Praise the Lord i am alive with HIM!!! HAPPY EASTER!

This is what happens when you spend your entire life writing about imaginary fantasy characters...you eventually start to believe one is real. At least you're not worshipping vampires...

Haliluya - that is an arabic or aramayic word

that means - enchant on ..

means sing ..

You guys are so lost ..

Dear Anne Rice:

Reading through the posts -I notice so many are personally inspired by your words.

Please write a book of meditations. So many need a daily word or in times of trial seek comfort in uplifting meditations.

I often take little books of insight to our Children Hospital's Critical Care waiting room. They are always picked up and treasured.

Thanks for being brave enough to share your heart.

Anne has put into words, what I have been trying to say, but not skilled to put into words...It is a much needed gift given to me on this Easter weekend. A reflection of what he is to be in all of our lives and a reminder that I will trust in my Lord.

I wish I could "return to Christ" all of the awful Anne Rice books I've purchased over the years. Give me a break.

Jesus is Human.

How can a Human be a God!

If human's fight on earth, why then, they would fight in the sky.

There is not evidence of God's fighting.

Therefore, there is either no God or

There is one God!

Why would God be 3, father, son and spirit!

This world has too many repetitive things at the same time each is different.

No way that happened by itself.

Therefore, there is a God.

God is only one.

Wake up and stop being lost.

Believe in one God, the one who really is a God.

The God who really can create and do things.

Jesus was just human. Humans don't fly.

Do you think that if there is a God,

And God is only one,

Do you think that God needs.

Having a Son is a need. That is only human.

If you have everything, why do you need a Son.

that he would creat us for play?

or that he created us to put us in a real test.

A test that if we pass, we would be rewarded.

If he would appear before us, the test would be broken.

The true test is for him to not appear, but give us all the signs.

The sign of his creations.

Remember, God is one, does not need a son.

However, he would like us to pass the test.

So he sends us

Mohammad,
Jesus, "Isa"
Moses, "Musa"
Joseph, "Yosof"
Jacob, "Yaaqoob"
Isaac, "Is-haq"
Ibrahim, "Ib-raheem"
.... many many many others thousands of profits
Noah, "Noooh"
Adam "Adam"

Why would he choose Jesus to be the favorite and make him

a SON ?????????????

He is just a man ....

wake up ... how lost can you be

And if you think that there is no heaven and no hell ..

well .. may be you are ok ..

there is no reason to live .. why don't you kill your self ..

because life is not that much fun anyways

but if there is a God .. well have you

done your homework ????

Have you done your Job ???

Can you get money without working ???

Can you learn without going to school or reading a book or watching the environment ???

were is your mind ???

Do you think this life is a Game? Who's game is it?

If so,

God or yours?

This is simple and beautiful and exactly what the universe of intellectuals and literati need to hear. It is not the history of Christianity or the sectarian disputes or the theological quandararies but the words of the Gospels themselves and the Jesus to be found there in which we can find the Answer to all of the questions that life flings at us. It is not the stuff of Christianity we need but Christ himself. She is exactly right.

I, too, had a similar experience after almost 30 years of being a spiritual seeker and apostate. I realized in 2000 what I had been experiencing for so long was the Holy Spirt knocking on my door to return to the faith of my upbringing. The amount of joy which it brought into my life is immeasurable. I thank God every day for what he has done for me and my family. I know like yourself that I can never convince anyone that my experience is not a delusion or an abdication of reason, but that really doesn't matter. I know that the saying is true that before I loved God that He loved me first.

Are you a Zionist? Let me re-phrase that:

Do you believe every historical reference in the Bible, like the mythical Exodus. Or are you, like all other Christians selective of what you choose, and don't choose to believe in?

Oh and just to burst your bubble:
Jesus drank wine and was a married man. Also, to suggest that God committed adultery, and Mary being a married women was a virgin, is pure BS.

There seems to be a general spiritual awakening at work which is pulling all people to making individual decisions what or who to put their faith in. Some choose money, some choose the environment, some choose Budahism, Islam, New Age religion,or satanic magic. Each will choose which god he wishes to put his trust in to save him. I, personally have returned to Jesus, for many of the same reasons as Anne described.

Please stop making money out of religion it's a grotesque abuse of the poor vulnerable souls who feel the need to believe in this fantasist nonsense and shame on the Post for giving this nut job a platform to do so.

God So Loved The World

God so loved the world that he gave his only Son.
We so loved the world that we stood, as he was undone.
God so loves the world that he gives His grace so freely
We so love the world that we ignore His grace so easily
God so loved the world His promise is life without end
We so love the world that our hearts and minds ever bend
God so loved the world that He gave us all for pleasure.
We so love the world that our heart’s focus is earthly treasure.
God so loved the world that he died for you and me
We so love the world that our shame is hung on a “tree”.
God so loves the world that from His grace we cannot run
For His love and grace and mercy has been since all was begun.

Thought of a few things as I was reading through the responses--might be helpful to some folks here.

First off, religion is created by humans--it's important to remember this, especially for those of us who are religious, for "all fall short of the glory of God." Many religions (and people) are too arrogant to recognize this.

It may be true, however, that religions point to the same reality: a God that is too "large" to be comprehended by humans. The image of the blind men describing the elephant comes to mind: one thinks that it's like a tree because he feels its leg, one think's it's like a hose because he feels its trunk, and so on. All of them have a piece of the truth; none of them has the whole truth. Humility is always in order--and it's a key attribute, I think, of those who follow God.

I've heard it said that the opposite of faith isn't doubt, it's certainty. That makes sense to me: as soon as you're certain, especially for someone else, you set yourself up as God.

When I read C. S. Lewis's *Mere Christianity* a few years ago, it became obvious to me that the call of God to us (or at least me) was to give my all for God. That raised a couple of very interesting questions for me. First, does this God-thingy exist at all, or have we as humankind been fooling ourselves for thousands of years? Second, if this God-thingy exists, can it be trusted? I'd submit that these are among the most important theological questions, and they caused me quite a crisis.

I asked some people (including a minister who I regard highly), but I couldn't reason out an answer. Then, a couple of months later, I, like Ann Rice, realized that the questions weren't important to me anymore. That was the beginning of my faith. The questions weren't answered, but that didn't matter. I was able to believe, and, more importantly, to trust.

I'm not Eastern Orthodox (I'm a devout Episcopalian--such creatures DO exist), but I deeply appreciate some of the ways the Orthodox look at the world and God. For instance, their theology has a wonderful sense of mystery that's lacking in most Western theology. As an example, the question of what happens during the consecration of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ can't be answered, so there's no need for theories of transubstantiation, consubstantion, etc.--nor the schisms that result from those questions.

And they tend not to separate the Crucifixion and the Resurrection...through those acts, God redeemed ALL of creation--not just humankind, not just believers. While Orthodox believe that salvation exists in the Church, they leave the question of the salvation of those outside the Church to God. Would that Western Christians would do the same.

A priest I know who was a counter-intellegence officer during Vietnam defines evil as "causing someone pain or suffering in order to get them to do what you want them to do." He goes on to give a small example of evil: giving someone the silent treatment. Is there anyone over the age of 8 who hasn't done this to someone? This example shows that we're all capable of evil.

I don't know how to explain evil (nor suffereing from other causes), but I think that part of it has to do with free will. It seems to me that, for whatever reason, God prefers allowing us free will--to be independent beings, making our own decisions--to not allowing evil acts. I'm not sure I agree, but God didn't ask me ("Where you you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Speak, mortal!")

My experiences have convinced me that God is all-loving, and always forgiving. This should not be surprising: in the Christian story, we kill God, and God forgives us anyway. I don't know what to do with the images of God in Scripture that imply otherwise, except to remember that all Scripture, even if divinely inspired and profitable for study and instruction, was written by humans from a human perspective. The humans didn't always get it exactly right. For instance, neither Paul nor Jesus explicitly condemns slavery, even though we know that it's wrong nowadays. Why? They were human (especially Paul!) and probably couldn't conceive of a world without slavery--perhaps the thought never occurred to them. In the same way, perhaps the idea of a God who loves all of creation unconditionally never occurred to many of the folks who wrote Scripture. But we're not limited by Scripture: we can use the traditons of the Church and our own experience and reason to come to a better understand of who we are and who we shoudl be.

What about the reality of the Resurrection? Well, I sure don't know what happened. Look at the Resurrection narratives in the Gospels. They're plain old weird. Jesus appears to the disciples and walks and talks with them, but although they were his constant companions for years, they don't recognize him until they sit down to eat and break the bread. At that point, Jesus mysteriously disappears. In other narratives, he shows up mysteriously in locked rooms. On the other hand, he eats--and invites St. Thomas to touch his wounds so that he might believe. The only thing I can say is that the disciples and others clearly experienced it, whatever it was--so I believe in that mystery too.

Peace be with you all, regardless of your beliefs or path.

Paul

Jesus is Human.

How can a Human be a God!

If human's fight on earth, why then, they would fight in the sky.

There is not evidence of God's fighting.

Therefore, there is either no God or

There is one God!

Why would God be 3, father, son and spirit!

This world has too many repetitive things at the same time each is different.

No way that happened by itself.

Therefore, there is a God.

God is only one.

Wake up and stop being lost.

Believe in one God, the one who really is a God.

The God who really can create and do things.

Jesus was just human. Humans don't fly.

Do you think that if there is a God,

And God is only one,

Do you think that God needs.

Having a Son is a need. That is only human.

If you have everything, why do you need a Son.

that he would creat us for play?

or that he created us to put us in a real test.

A test that if we pass, we would be rewarded.

If he would appear before us, the test would be broken.

The true test is for him to not appear, but give us all the signs.

The sign of his creations.

Remember, God is one, does not need a son.

However, he would like us to pass the test.

So he sends us

Mohammad,
Jesus, "Isa"
Moses, "Musa"
Joseph, "Yosof"
Jacob, "Yaaqoob"
Isaac, "Is-haq"
Ibrahim, "Ib-raheem"
.... many many many others thousands of profits
Noah, "Noooh"
Adam "Adam"

Why would he choose Jesus to be the favorite and make him

a SON ?????????????

He is just a man ....

wake up ... how lost can you be

And if you think that there is no heaven and no hell ..

well .. may be you are ok ..

there is no reason to live .. why don't you kill your self ..

because life is not that much fun anyways

but if there is a God .. well have you

done your homework ????

Have you done your Job ???

Can you get money without working ???

Can you learn without going to school or reading a book or watching the environment ???

were is your mind ???

Do you think this life is a Game? Who's game is it?

If so,

God or yours?

You believe as i do christ is my hope of life here after and i will dwell in his house forever God bless you. Your brother in christ jesus Gene Hall

Hi Anne,

The LORD God our Father and our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ bless you and keep you strong in your faith. As you opened your heart and shared your faith in the LORD and His Christ, you will likely be reducled by scoffers. But as you stand up to such reducle your faith will be strengthened to new level.

Thank you for sharing your testimony to the Lord Jesus. I was very edified as I read it.

Ogbazghi Sium
obisium@comcast.net

While I was reading this article, I kept thinking how difficult it is at times to really keep trusting Jesus - Thank You Ms. Rice - I have found my lenten message from Jesus in your article - Your faith has brought a light into my world -

Thank you, Anne. Your writing came at just the right time for me. I've been grieving a terrible situation.... and you reminded me that God is bigger than any difficulty we may encounter. God bless you.

Anne

All I have to say is "Welcome to the Family of God". I'm so glad you found him. I know you have hurt deep in your heart seeking why but he was always patiently waiting for you to seek him.

He is a God of Love and will now be with you always. No one can take away His gift of eternal life that Hee has given you and you will never lose it.

Now seek his Spiritual Gift that the Holy Spirit has given you to use for Him

A Spiritual Gift is a God given assignment, capacity, and desire to perform a function within a body of Christ with supernatural joy, energy, and effectiveness.

I Peter 4:10
Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms.

Congratulations again on finding Him

S.W

This is scary, that people believe stories that were written thousands of years ago and base their life and belief system on them. There is a total lack of historical evidence to support the Gospel stories, and the Bible as a whole. Religion does not free you, it binds you and blinds you.

Ann,

Thank you for so beautifully demonstrating that the limitations of human knowledge necessarily proves the existence of an invisible man who lives in outer space, and who loves me ... who really, really loves me.

Now, can we please attack Iran?

Thank you for your words. It is reassuring to hear such views again and again. In this world where it sometimes seams that being a christian is without rewards, where everyone thinks more of the material things more than things of God, such words recandle our love for the lord. Thank you again and keep on the good work.