All Comments (113)

Hi,
My name is Hamza J. and I'm a muslim from Nigeria. My comment is to Westerners, I wish they would offer a better listening ear to Scholars like Hamza Yusuf who are caught in the middle but still are able to bridge the gap by expressing their vision and wisdom for a better world. Hamza Yusuf's article articulates the pain of muslims around the world as well as their wrongs which the west must understand by looking at themselves as not being very different. Only through dialogue and genuine sincereity for a better world can we overcome our mutual differences. Labels, self-righteousness and authoritarianism only leads to dissent and more violence as it does not speak the language of peace, humility and resolve.
Thank You.

is myanmar Where of

is myanmar Where of

Once again Hamza Useless is acting like a moderate coward that is trying to appease his western masters

Who said you cannot name a toy or Mohammed? Mr. Hamza Yusuf makes me laugh when I see such an American Crhistian convert to Islam, or whatever his previous religion is, preaches us on our own religion, as I saw him a few times on a popular Arabic channel. Not only that, but he's fallen prey to the stupid defensive rhetoric of Arab/Islamic politics in modern history which is nothing but pointing fingers at others and belaming them for our own faults, a discourse that lacks the ability to self-criticise.

Mr. Yusuf:

A few short comments:

1. Ms. Gibbons' statement was made in Sudan upon her release. Do you really think it reflects her true feelings?

2.The fact that Muslims share with Jews a prohibition against making images of living things is irrelevant (as well as inaccurate). Jews don't kill, or threaten to kill in the name of this putative prohibition.

3. By the "Sudanese government's failure to address Darfur's problems," are you referring to that government's active complicity in the killing and rape of hundreds of thousands of its own citizens?

4. It is a sad reflection on the state of Muslim thought to concede that many "Muslim brothers and sisters" would react by referring to the "atrocities" committed by "the West" in places like Kashmir and Palestine. To have you simply parrot these absurd comments as if they were an undiluted truth shows your own limited capacity for clear analysis (or, worse, your cynicism).

I would like to ask Hamza Yusuf why he thinks that the atrocities in "Palestine" are against the Muslims. Does he not know that in 1948 after the declaration of independence of Israel according to the UN declaration of Nov 27, 1947, five Muslim Arab countries (TransJordan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon) invaded the Jewish state and were finally repelled by the Israelis from their territory and that instead of creating the Palestinian state in conformance with the UN declaration TransJordan annexed what became known as the West Bank and East Jerusalem (thus becoming Jordan) and Egypt took control of the Gaza Strip? Does he not know that while, during the course of the hostilities, 711,000 Arabs, according to UN estimates, fled from Israel? At the same time some 850,000 Jews fled their homes in Arab countries, arriving as refugees with no possessions but that unlike the Arab countries which kept the Arab refugees in camps to this day, the Jewish refugees were integrated into Israel? Does he not know that during the 1950's Israel was attacked again and again by "fedayeen" mainly from the Egyptian occupied Gaza Strip, which led to the 1956 war? Does he not recall that in 1967 Egypt, Jordan, and Syria massed troops close to Israeli borders, expelled UN peacekeepers and blocked Israel's access to the Red Sea, a causus belli which forced Israel into the pre-emptive strike that launched the Six-Day War, during which it captured the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights? Does he not know that Israel warned Jordan not to enter into the fight and that because Jordan did enter the fight it lost the West Bank? And does he not know of the three "Noes" issued by eight Arab leaders at the Khartoum Conference in 1967: "No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel"? Is he unaware of the launching of the 1973 war by Egypt on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar? And is he also unaware of the terrorism at the 1972 Summer Olympics suicide bombers and the cult of death which the two intifada created? And does he really think that it is the Muslim Arab states that keep seeking peace with Israel, or is it the other way around, with Israel even offering to give up the most important Jewish symbol of over 3000 years, the Temple Mount, as was offered at Camp David?
I could mention a lot more, but the real question is who is creating more violence? Please don't give me the "even-handed" answer. As Judea Pearl has pointed out, the inability to understand that Israel's military operations in Gaza are not equivalent to the firing of Qassam rockets into Sderot because the former will cease if the latter does but not the other way around. This causal asymmetry is so glaring, that only the mindless can ignore them.

Assalamualaikum Bro. Yusuf,

This is a nice article and shows some very accurate viewpoints that are regularly sidelined in much of the media. I'd like to give a small correction toward the end of the article when the West was going through its dark medieval era Muslim nations were among, if not the, most advanced civilizations in the world. That was a golden era for Muslims so it would not be applicable to say Muslims are acting medieval, some of them do act ignorantly and that is an unfortunate quality both among Muslims and Westerners that is becoming more and more a part of modern times. I hope that we have learned something from the mistakes of past times so that we will not repeat history again as is being done in the unjust Iraq War.

"So when we see an irrational or misguided reaction of some Muslims, as we now see in Sudan, it behooves us to reflect on the deeper reality causing it."

Allow me to suggest that the "deeper reality" that you should have been reflecting on for YEARS is the absolutely intolerant and bloody example of Mohammad, as depicted in the Qu'ran, which inspires more than just the absolutely intolerant and bloody Islamic government of Sudan.

As you write, "our dark medieval past seems to be having an ironic renaissance in the West and the Muslim world." Can you prove that this is NOT how Mohammad would have it? After all, he's the model human being, a paragon of virtue, whose bloody and intolerant revelations are binding for all time on all Muslims everywhere, right?

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

الأخ الشيخ حمزة يوسف السلام عليكم يا حبيبى

Thursday, August 16, 2007
أغسطس 16/8/2007 / تاريخ / شعبان 3/8/1428

أنا انسه خلود بكي بكي وليس وليس وأنا أرجوك البريد الكتروني وأن شاء اللة وأنت واحد يا حبيبى
وأنا القلوب كثيرا والله يا حبيبى الشيخ حمزة يوسف وأنا أحبك كثيرا جدا بكي بكي بكي
يا حبيبى محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم أسأل الله شربة هنيئة من نهرك الكوثر لا أظمأ بعدها

وأنت واحد يا حبيبى السلام عليكم يا حبيبى

حج مبرور وكل عام وانت بخير

أنا القلوب كثيرا والله يا حبيبى الشيخ حمزة يوسف

أنا القلوب كثيرا والله يا حبيبى كثيرا واحد مرة فقط
l khalood l love you one shaykh hamza yusuf

l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf

l love you one shaykh Hamza Yusuf - USA
l miss khalood - KSA
الأنسة / خلود ناصر محمد الملحم - السعودية
khalood_2005@hotmail.com

From :
Sent : Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:49 AM
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Subject : Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

الأخ الشيخ حمزة يوسف السلام عليكم يا حبيبى

Thursday, August 16, 2007
أغسطس 16/8/2007 / تاريخ / شعبان 3/8/1428

أنا انسه خلود بكي بكي وليس وليس وأنا أرجوك البريد الكتروني وأن شاء اللة وأنت واحد يا حبيبى
وأنا القلوب كثيرا والله يا حبيبى الشيخ حمزة يوسف وأنا أحبك كثيرا جدا بكي بكي بكي
يا حبيبى محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم أسأل الله شربة هنيئة من نهرك الكوثر لا أظمأ بعدها

وأنت واحد يا حبيبى السلام عليكم يا حبيبى

حج مبرور وكل عام وانت بخير

أنا القلوب كثيرا والله يا حبيبى الشيخ حمزة يوسف

أنا القلوب كثيرا والله يا حبيبى كثيرا واحد مرة فقط
l khalood l love you one shaykh hamza yusuf

l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf
l love you hamza yusuf

l love you one shaykh Hamza Yusuf - USA
l miss khalood - KSA
الأنسة / خلود ناصر محمد الملحم - السعودية
khalood_2005@hotmail.com

Obviously she did not intend to insult Islam. Only those who intentionally insult Islam should be put to death. Right?

As a non muslim, how do you learn to seperate the culture from the religion,i.e. the emplied teachings directly from the Quran compared to the Arab, Persian , or even the American culture? By this I mean how do you distinguish what it is to be an Arab or a Persian, or even an American to what it is to be Muslim, and how do these effect you in " being and doing Muslim".

Assalamualakum,

Excellent post. Thanks so much. May Allah swt bless you.

Assalamualakum

I think this issue all comes down to the misunderstanding of Islam. If only people would learn Islam through its two sources: Quran and Sunnah (prophetic saying/actions) and NOT MEDIA then the mislabeling of Islam wouldn't happen. If the British teacher took the time to understand the beauty of Islam, she would not have agreed to name a teddy bear under the final, beloved prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace be upon him) a mercy to mankind. It is common sense, naming a teddy bear under a prophet's name, whose name is mentioned all around the world! Every single minute in adhan (call to prayer) is absolutely disrespect! Period.

well said shaykh hamza, jazzakAllah Khair for writing this article.

Hamza
All over the world especially now in Indonesia
Malaysia we hear reports of Christians killed
and their churches burned...Endless stories of muslims killing muslims. Yet from the "moderates like yourself there is always the veiled excuse that if not for the West these things would not be. The 800,000 killed in Iraq....How many of these are Sunni on Sheite..how many of these murders were caused by Al Queida on muslims that stand agains terrorism.
Do you blame the West for Saddam's reign of terror? Do you blame the West for the Sudanese government's anihilation of Darfur natives. Could you possibly think that this mayhem would end if muslims were left to themselves while the fanatics among you press for totalarian Taliban muslim regimes....What an awful world we would have if the entire world did not stand up against such behavior whether Muslim, Hindu, Christian etc.
I wouldn't name a teddy bear Jesus...that's true but there would not be people pouring out of churches with swords to kill me if I did ...and its not because Christians are less reverent but because muslims are focused on the man, Muhammad as if he were a god himself...In a way worshipping him ....Muhammad would approve of his "divinity" . He knew what he was...

We American's have much to learn and must stop the double standards. WE NEED TO HEAR MORE FROM MUSLIMS AND THE LIKE OF HAMZA YUSUF.

Dear Editor/Sir;
The Romans had a harsh response to the Christian Fath and their acknowledgement of GOD. Also to the Prophet Mehmed, and so do the American population. A recent survey desclosed that over half the population does not believe/accept organized religon, but instead have a spititual faith belief.
History has demonstrated the harshness of organized religon by the terror and bloodshed it has inflicted on people and populations. Look at the sexual scandels of Catholic clergy, of the moslims and their auto/personal bombs.
It was left to the Inda leader Mohat Ma Gande in modern times to show the world in winning by passive resistance.
The universe is a harsh place with most physical life and matter existing in the plasma state. The small amount of cold solid life and matter exists in an adversial environment (Eat or be eaten), and the only god force is organic life that is modifying a planets by occupying them, and the universe by viewing and measurment.

JazakAllah Khair Shaykh Hamza for the insights.

We would also like to share this article on the issue:
http://muslimmatters.org/2007/12/01/on-naming-teddy-bears

What a shame, the fiasco ended so soon - before the US could take 'freedom and democracy' and impress the Sudanese with "shock and awe" !!

Oh, the Israelis were mouth-watering too!! Another long time hit-list-country!

-Mike

Thank you NAZIM
Mohamed, Morocco
http://arabicwithlagouader.blogspot.com/

Thank you NAZIM

Welcome to my blog above where you can find more poems (and even novels).

Mohamed, Morocco

That was a beautiful poem above.

Mezaan,

It was not the parents who complained as was first reported. It was a former employee of the school, who apparently had a grudge and saw an opportunity to cause some trouble.

Muhammad

What can I say on your day
When every day is your day ?
O Muhammad! O Taha ! O shafi’na on the Last Day !
From the day you stood to say :
O Man ! I’m but a man
Sent to save you, sent to tell you
The way that’ll lead you away
From the one who led you astray
To the One Who made you ’n the best way
And gave you beauty and bounty in every way
And will yet give you joy where you’ll stay
For ever and ever, as you say !
From that day,
O Muhammad ! O Taha! O shafi’na on the Last Day !
Men came to you on foot and horseback ;
They said as you said
And prayed as you prayed
And when attacked, they fought back.
You lived in a shack
While your beauty was brighter than the moon ;
You ate with your hands
While one with your beauty would use a gold spoon ;
You sat on the sands
While one with your glory
Would build himself storey upon storey :
And that’s why your story
Has gone as far as Brunei and Zinjibar
And London and New York
Where people eat with a knife and fork,
They too say as you said
And pray as you prayed
And when wrongly questioned, they answer back.
O Muhammad ! O Taha! O shafi’na on the Last Day !
What can I say on your day
When every day is your day ?
From just a few those who came to you
Filled every hill, swamped every dale,
They made Time stand still till their tale
Made the mightiest kingdoms frail
And brought the Muslim flag as close as Prague !
The Arabian Nights tells of made-up knights
And of Harun al-Rasheed
Whose life the Truth of your Message
Made eed upon eed !
And yet someone came to draw
A pic of a man whose peer he never saw,
And papers and commentators
Seeking cheap money and fake glory
Made every story
Out of the Story of the man whose glory
Defies all Posts and all Tribunes and all Times !
O Muhammad ! O Taha! O shafi’na on the Last Day !
What can I say on your day
When every day is your day ?
When your name has brought fame
To a Dane who became insane ?
What can I say on your day
When night and day
Souls repeat your words
As if they were songs of jungle birds !
Peace be upon you and all those who followed your way !
O Muhammad! O Taha! O shafi’na on the Last Day !

Hamza Yusuf has done a remarkable job in putting things into prospective about the Teddy Bear incident.

It is the sane voice that is missing in our world of today.

I wish our world would listen more to these voices that would bring sanity back to our global villege.

A huge gap exist between the West and the Islamic world. We need to create and establish a bridge of understanding between the two worlds that seem to go far apart.

What is needed from both sides is a sense of understanding of the other.

Salam,

Great post, timely and effective.

To everyone posting here,
I have a question about the parents who represent the children in the case. I believe an article on BBC briefly mentions how a few parents "didn't" find the naming act inappropriate or unusual at the time when the children were given the assignment back in September. But then weeks later, when the project had gotten complete, a few of the same parents now found it offensive as sh hamza points out. So there are two distinct responses to the "naming act". Were the parents wrong to have felt offended later (if for some odd reason there was a change of heart)? or Were the parents wrong to have not felt offended at all ?

Though trivial in grand scheme of things, do you think the act of "naming the bear muhammad" itself warranted any response or concern ? if so, what would've been appropriate and fair ? If you don't think the act required any response, why do you think it that way and how would you address parents who were offended?

Hello Everyone,

How could any muslim even think about criticizing an article by Hamza Yusuf. Arrogant people talk to your own scholars with no respect, that is why you are in the state you are in right now. You need to organize and unite.

as salaam alaikum,shaykh hamza's reponse was good.This response indicates long term thinking and the integrity of Islam mjst be defended and maintained by multiple means the first is good chracter.

The parents of children involeved are to be blamed for this controversy and not the teacher. If these parents had provided to their childern correct and sufficient knowledge about their religion, the children would not have named a teddy bear "Muhammad".
Someone should have talked to the teacher about having the children rename the teddy, instead of throwing her in the Jail. What a waste!
The good people of Sudan have lost a good teacher for their children. That is a big loss.

Salam,

In the Name of Allah the most Beneficent the most Merciful
thank you for your brilliant explaination to what really happened.I think what you wrote ,is good beginning to connect by the correct way with others
JAZAK ALLAH

peace be upon you
May Allah bless you our borther Hamza Yusuf
thanks alot
best regards and peaces

ASALAMU ALAYKUM
I WANT TO THANHS IMAM HAMZA YUSUF ,FOR HIS WORK IN ISLAM AND,FOR GOD,INSAH ALLAH ,MAY ALLAH TO GIVE HIM ,LONG LIFE,AND GOOD HEALTH,SIR IMAM HAMZA I SEND TO YOU MY BEST GREETINGS.WITH MY PASSION IN ALLAH ,LEEN.

The people of Sudan are the loser for losing a dedicated teacher and a gentle person who still inspite of her treatment has nothing but respect for her students and the people.

The people of Sudan are the loser for losing a dedicated teacher and a gentle person who still inspite of her treatment has nothing but respect for her students and the people.

Athena, Athena, Athena,

If indeed the British negotiators were Muslims (you give no references), they should have noted that Islam as with Christianity, Judaism and Paganism, has significant flaws with said flaws giving rise to significantly stupid actions like threatening the life of a caring teacher.

And they should have concluded their negotiations with that famous quote,

"Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe!!!!"

Two points that people aren't mentioning:

1) The teacher's release was negotiated by two Members of the British Parliament who are MUSLIMS. Basically, they told the Sudanese government to cut it out because they were embarrassing Muslims everywhere.

2) Christians can be just as fanatical about crazy stuff. Look at the fuss about the "Harry Potter" books. Apparently J.K. Rowling has received death threats from Fundamentalists in America! Look at the current controversy over "The Golden Compass". Or the nonsense about saying "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays" in the stores. WHO CARES???

As much as I hate to complement Michael Gerson, he did have a great op ed in the Post the other day about Women For Women. It looks like they directly help women affected by war in places like Iraq, Colombia, Bosnia, and Sudan. Very cool charity. I'm definitely going to check them out further.

http://www.womenforwomen.org/index.htm

Hello,

I agree with MR. Hanson on this issue and denounce the atrocities committed by Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Shaykh Hamza, thank you and may Allah increase you in wisdom...

I too, as a Muslim, was dumbfounded by the reaction the naming of the teddy bear received. I love our Prophet, pbuh, and all Muslims should, however, we must remember his character. He, pbuh, smiled at his adversaries when they insulted him, injured him, and even tried to kill him. This reaction is definitely not with his wisdom.

Also, it has been published, search google, that non of the parents of the children reacted in such a way. Which shows that this is cooked up by a bunch of people who want to use this in order to send a message of some sorts. God knows what it is.

As-Salaam i think definitely a lack of understanding there is!
but i think sometimes cultural plays that role too and we misunderstood!
it's not our religion
it's our culture that comes from us and that's how we go on the wrong path and become ignorant!

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

All your "reasoning" will not deflect the words of this famous quote:

"Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe"!!!!

WAJ,

whatever prompted you to think I condone the murder of Sudanese men, women and children? And no, the west is no more good at it than anyone else. Of the 10 worst incumbent dictators, none is from the west. As far as Sudan goes, Omar Hasan Ahmad al-Bashir does a fine job of killing off the population.

Going down the list:
"...yet another example of some Muslims attempting to assert themselves and exercise a little authority in the face of the immense onslaught of Western hegemony in the region."

So threatening a woman with death for a stupid mistake, or with six months in an inhumane prison or lashes is standing up for themselves? I think not. Sounds more like a regressive punishment for a mistake.

"The danger here is that despite most Sudanese being beautiful and proudly hospitable people, too many Westerners will nonetheless see them as barbarians unworthy of respect. "

Excuse me? this is a slippery slope argument--it certainly doesn't help, but I doubt that this one instance would have done anything that Darfur hasn't already done, which I note you glossed over.

"Unfortunately, millions of Muslims all over the globe are humiliated and betrayed by the ignorance and lack of basic humanity that a small minority of Muslims too often exhibits"

An awfully persistent minority, with roots all over the globe. And hardly small. The persistent rage that this "small" minority displays over every little thing (and the damage they wreck) certainly suggests that there are more than a few of them. (Not all, of course, but I'd venture about 45% of Muslims are this way).

"Should I, however, bring this up with many of my Muslim brothers and sisters a common response is: "It's true, but look at what the West is doing to Muslims; 800,000 thousand dead in Iraq. And what about Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya and the rest? Why don't Western people denounce these atrocities against us and only harp about how backward we are?""

So you're excusing the atrocities committed by your fellow by pointing at the West? Sort of like, 'Mommy! He hit me first so I sucker punched him!" IT doesn't excuse the violence by any means.

"..a famous Iraqi poet once wrote, "If one person is harmed it is an unpardonable sin, but a whole people's destruction is something to debate.""

Stalin said that, more or less.

"Unfortunately, these Western horrors against the Muslims demand responses, but Muslims must also recognize and denounce these wrongs too often associated with our Prophet and our faith without always pointing fingers elsewhere."

You sir, amuse me. The verbal twistings you here commit does Bush Co. proud.

"So when we see an irrational or misguided reaction of some Muslims, as we now see in Sudan, it behooves us to reflect on the deeper reality causing it."

Of course. This is somehow the fault of the West. If only we'd stay out of it, we could live in peace. There'd be no honor killings, rape, murder, genocide nor misogyny. I do like how you direct attention away from the backward-ness of the that part of the world, focusing only on the convinent bits, and then blaming the West for everything. Fabulous job.

the outrage in the west against the policies of this administration is seen everywhere. Bush and his accomplices are reviled en mass everywhere they go.Gonzolez was greeted at his first speech after his resignation with students dressed in orange jump suits and hoods.In stark contrast where is the outrage over the policies in the middle east by muslim countries.We just started our inhumane torture policies yet this practice is common in the middle east.When a suicide bomber kills innocent people in isreal where is the outrage by muslims

the outrage in the west against the policies of this administration is seen everywhere. Bush and his accomplices are reviled en mass everywhere they go.Gonzolez was greeted at his first speech after his resignation with students dressed in orange jump suits and hoods.In stark contrast where is the outrage over the policies in the middle east by muslim countries.We just started our inhumane torture policies yet this practice is common in the middle east.When a suicide bomber kills innocent people in isreal where is the outrage by muslims

the outrage in the west against the policies of this administration is seen everywhere. Bush and his accomplices are reviled en mass everywhere they go.Gonzolez was greeted at his first speech after his resignation with students dressed in orange jump suits and hoods.In stark contrast where is the outrage over the policies in the middle east by muslim countries.We just started our inhumane torture policies yet this practice is common in the middle east.When a suicide bomber kills innocent people in isreal where is the outrage by muslims

paganplace- i addressed that issue several times-dec 6 4:07

i was talking about, as i stated, experiences with the WEST-

how is the genocide an experience with the west?

Khartoum - History

Khartoum is one of three sister cities, built at the convergence of the Blue and White Niles: Omdurman to the north-west across the White Nile, North Khartoum, and Khartoum itself on the southern bank of the Blue Nile.

Khartoum has a relatively short history. It was first established as a military outpost in 1821, and is said to derive its name from the thin spit of land at the convergence of the rivers, which resembles an elephant's trunk (khurtum). Khartoum grew rapidly in prosperity during the boom years of the slave trade, between 1825 and 1880. In 1834 it became the capital of the Sudan, and many explorers from EUROPE used it as a base for their African expeditions.

Khartoum was sacked twice during the latter half of the 19th century -- once by the Mahdi and once by KITCHENER when the Mahdi was ousted. In 1898, Kitchener began to rebuild the city, and designed the streets in the shape of the British flag, the Union Jack, which he hoped would make it easier to defend. On the opposite bank of the Nile, North Khartoum was developed as an industrial area at about the same time.

Today's Khartoum is a quiet, unremarkable city. It has peaceful, tree-lined streets, and in some ways still bears the unmistakable mark of an outpost of the British Empire. Its expansion to accommodate a rapidly-growing population, however, has added very little in terms of charm or atmosphere.

History of SudanIn 1883 a major crisis arose in the Sudan, the territory south of Egypt under Egyptian control. A Muslim religious leader known as the Mahdi led a popular rebellion against Egyptian rule and foreign influence in the Sudan. The rebellion attracted the attention of the BRITISH government, which had become deeply involved in Egypt's affairs by 1880. From 1880 to 1885 the Liberal party under the leadership of Prime Minister William Gladstone was in power in Great Britain. In the mid-19th century Sudan became of interest to the British because of its strategic importance for trade routes to India via the newly-opened Suez Canal and the desire to limit French influence from the west. In the 1880s, the country fell under British and Egyptian control. Local resistance at this time was led by the Mahdi Mohammed Ahmed, a figure revered by his people as both a mystic and a holy warrior. The Mahdi defeated a British-led force of Egyptian troops in 1883 culminating in the death of the British commander, General Gordon, when, after a long siege, the Sudanese took Khartoum.

The Mahdists retained control of Sudan until the British RECONQUERED the territory in 1898. An Anglo-Egyptian condominium was established in 1899. In 1914, Egypt itself was made a British protectorate and Sudan was taken under British rule accordingly. When the protectorate was dissolved in 1922, the future of Sudan was left open, subject to further negotiations, but a condominium was restored in 1929. A further Anglo-Egyptian treaty in 1936 allowed Egyptian troops and civilian immigrants to enter Sudan without restriction. After the Second World War, Sudan became the subject of serious contention between Britain and Egypt. Efforts to co-opt Sudan under Egyptian control in 1951 were firmly resisted by the Sudanese.

so you see, the experiences with the west have been somewhat TUMULTUOUS (an understatement in an attempt to not simply blame andpoint fingers)
and the west has had only selfish and destructive purposes

make sense now?

again, i already discussed the humanitarian crisis- posted links to help people take their own action,(which you responded to, so you knew they were there)

why on earth would this upset you?

and for the record, i lived in greefield pa for a couple of years- there was a large hungarian enclave there- i learned alot about the roma (they were there too) and have consistently pointed out that the roma, mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals and jehovahs witnesses were also in equal numbers to the jewish peoples exterminated by the nazis-

again- go reread what i wrote about the darfur crisis- im the one who brought it up-

actually the poster who posted right before you made this statement-

decemberains-
""Muslims attempting to assert themselves and exercise a little authority in the face of the immense onslaught of Western hegemony in the region"- this is an interesting statement. Too often us 'Westerners' lack self-awareness and forget how people in the world perceive us."

i agree with this assesment-

which is why i posted a little background, and made reference to it before-

hope its clear now

no one here, so far, has suggested that the actions of the officials in sudan were either reasonable, islamic or civlized in amy way.

i think weve gotten past that point having established our consensual disgust with that decision.

and are trying(like the author) to address the deeper issues of what would motivate a people to act that way to begin with?

western hegemony and being overun by the brits in the past has made them sensitive to and disempowered by ..the brits

overeaction?, of course

now on the the "why?"

i used my own experiene of teaching native americans as a corollary-

i taught at the camps and was INVITED- but even after that invitation i realized not all would be receptive- and didnt push anything, and stayed very sensitive to the fact that some there would view it as further unwanted intervention from another blue eyed european-american

i gained their trust and earned their respect through giving respect myself, even being named an honorary pomo (member of the tribe)
but it was a tenuous position and one i was willing to abandon at any moment if i felt i was distressing any memebers of the tribe

we have to be sensitive to other people cultures
learn as much as we can so as not to insult them
(for instance, one middle easterner culture consider it an insult to bring food to a dinner- it implies that the host cannot feed you- in america we think nothing of bringing a pie to a dinner because we are all so comfortably fed, no one imagines such an implication)

through dialogue, they discovered my pie was a gift, not an insult, and they learned i like flowers when they come.

live and learn, thats what its all about

as long as there are people paganplace, like you, and i- who care about other people and their situations- there issome glimmer of hope
peace

Excellent write up by one of my favorite scholars.
Thank you for this persperctive.

Sincerely,
Dian Alyan
MCA Outreach Director

It never ceases to amaze me when Muslims complain about the thousands dying in Iraq but fail to admit that 90% are being killed by other Mulsims.

Hypocrisy.

I agree with Sh Hamza on most of what he mentioned. I would think the lady wouldn't have accepted the name Mohamed has she known the culture. Any way , the precise description is "overreaction" by both the Sudanese crowds and the western media which ignored thousands of falling muslims every day and made this front page news.

I agree with Sh Hamza on most of what he mentioned. I would think the lady wouldn't have accepted the name Mohamed has she known the culture. Any way , the precise description is "overreaction" by both the Sudanese crowds and the western media which ignored thousands of falling muslims every day by their unjustified wars against muslim regions.

And another thing...

What misleading garbage is this:

"Indeed, our dark medieval past seems to be having an ironic renaissance in the West and the Muslim world.

So when we see an irrational or misguided reaction of some Muslims, as we now see in Sudan, it behooves us to reflect on the deeper reality causing it."

First off, was there ever a period when Sudan was not barbaric? Second, how is the violent fanaticism of Islam the fault of the West. Before the west was powerful, Islam had quite it's share of violent fanatics.

Finally. At it's very, very worst, the United States and dare I say it, Israel, is nothing - nothing at all like the actual genocide committing monsters in Sudan.

And another thing...

What misleading garbage is this:

"Indeed, our dark medieval past seems to be having an ironic renaissance in the West and the Muslim world.

So when we see an irrational or misguided reaction of some Muslims, as we now see in Sudan, it behooves us to reflect on the deeper reality causing it."

First off, was there ever a period when Sudan was not barbaric? Second, how is the violent fanaticism of Islam the fault of the West. Before the west was powerful, Islam had quite it's share of violent fanatics.

Finally. At it's very, very worst, the United States and dare I say it, Israel, is nothing - nothing at all like the actual genocide committing monsters in Sudan.

Muslims, please lighten up. Keep your religion at home. you can be good Muslims and also be tolerant. You know you shouldn't idolise the prophet, but you do in so many ways by killing anything that you consider an infraction! You think Allah needs your help in meteing out punishment when his "last prophet" is insulted? Get a grip!

The current body count caused by the significantly stupid 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4000 US troops and 77,573 – 84,502 Iraqi civilians http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

And the incidents in Saudi Arabia and Sudan reinforce the following famous quote:

"Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe!!!"

Three things.

First, Jews do not have any prohibition against teddy bears or making images of any living thing. I find it deeply ironic that so very many of the Muslim writer at this paper are always so very ready to trash Jews, and then turn around and try to use us a some vehicle for legitimacy.

Second, Jews don't pour out of houses of worship demanding the death of people involved with insulting Judaism - let someone involved in a dreaded teddy-bear incident. Not a single Jew has ever called for your head for instance.

Third, I am very, very tired of all of this blame the West for everything drivel. There are civilised ways to assert one's culture. Now if you look in the a English dictionary, you will find words to describe the behaviour of many people in places like Sudan.

The words are: Violent, Fanatical, Ignorant, Backwards, Barbaric.

That is their fault. Also, is the genocide that these butchers are perpetrating also something that is the fault of the West?

Three things.

First, Jews do not have any prohibition against teddy bears or making images of any living thing. I find it deeply ironic that so very many of the Musli