No matter what someone claims...Many claim that they are the true church.They all thrive on number and how many can we get.And try to lcaim it as evidence.But I rarely see.amongst all these denimanitons.Being a church in the midst of darkness.And being a strength of the weak.They all claim They believe .In the Lord Jesus as thier savior.and that he died and rose again.and that Jesu preached the gospel.Amny denominations.Read the scriptures,Live a moral life,according to thier standards.They quote their scriptures and live and boast in everyone elses exsperince.Hardly anyone listens or sees.Or seeks God.They recruit people to get baptized in thier churhces to claim some large number.They dress nice ,they show up at church on Sun.But one thing everyone seems to be missing.as they tell the stories of all these other people.Sanctification.They are not able to understand or sanctify humanity.They are dry.They have no food for the soul.They can't understnad the broken hearted,Theres no truth to touch the soul,They can't guide into Gods spiritual divine truth.They can't battle dark principalites, and can't see unjustness to use the sword.
God is Word
Word = Wisdom ,Word and Wisdom is the same and is Spirit. Jesus guided people to God. People are guiding people to thier denomination.
Joseph Smith said He saw God and Jesus.John 4:24 God is Spirit. Jesus is organic matter .and we are to pray to the God of Jesus.John 20:17 I ascend to my Father and your Father.To my God and your God.
In 2 Nephi 10:3,4 Claims that the Jews crucified thier God.
Jesus was never intended to be God.Niether did the Jews crucify Jesus.
The Jews were waiting for a Messiah. As told of the prophets.Messiah(Meshiach) doesn't mean God.
Messaih means one who is anointed(by God).
There are traces of the lase heresies of the 1800s in the book of Mormons.That Joseph smith claimed to of denied.
Yet it is said it is written between 559-545 BC.
You can see The prejudices of the times of slavery of the 1800s.Claiming that white is delightful and darkness is because they were cursed by God.In 2 Nephi 5:20-23.This is a lie and completely blasphemous.He writes back in time to thing he only knew from his own time and enviroment.Yes amny things in here are copied from the KJV translation.The "art",thous" is from 1600s Old English KJV .Not the language of 1800s NY. And this was claimed to be translated from Egyptian writings.
The word Chirst is Greek.coming from the error of the word Messaih frm the language of the Romans.At the time of Jesus.and ot from 600s BC.
These people and Josephs 8 accomplaces as noted as eight witness.Had a fever for gold and power.And seemed to be highyl intelelgent and imaginative .But they weren't that intelligent.
Jospeh Smith = fasle prophet..not only mistaken or opinionated or a false belief,but a complete willful knowing liar.
Truth ,who is willing to want truth .Who is willing to spread truth.Or stand in vain claiming you are the only kingdom of God.and continue to mislead many.Yes many prophets died in the name of God .But so did many flase prophets and pagans die in the name of thier belief.People just need to seek God and forsake thier own kingdom.Water baptsim doesn't save you.Thats an initaition right .People try to say we all have one commonality. and likenesses .But what is the commonality in Truth? How long will people lie?

I would like to share my conversion to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. My family attended a Baptist Church in Arkansas when I was young. I also attended various other Christian churches with my uncle from time to time, including revivals.

I was always confused about how God and Jesus Christ were the same person. I was also left lacking in spirit and substance whenever I left the various revivals and meetings. They were uplifting for a few days, but there was no life changing force in them.

When I was 15, I was introduced to the Mormon Missionaries and they shared the story of the first vision of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. This immediately made sense to me and cleared up some of the questions I had of earlier teachings that were confusing and did not make sense. I can honestly say that I felt the spirit witness to me that day that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that Jesus Christ lives today and is waiting to bless us and forgive us of our sins. He is the same in purpose with God the Eternal Father, but not the same person. I still have the same feelings today about those teachings as I did over 35 years ago. I now have a much greater appreciation for my Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, and the sacrifice that was made for us that we might be forgiven of our sins and have an opportunity to live in His presence again.

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Lynn I,
I wonder why it is so important for you to define whether Mormons are Christians or not. Going to or gradulating from some bible school/college does not make you the authority on interpreting the Bible. In fact, I believe Peter said it best: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Peter 1: 21-22).

I will not even begin to humor you in a battle of biblical interpretation since there are well over a thousand different "Christian" religions (all using the same bible) yet differing on many different points of biblical interpretation. However, I am sure you would readily stand up and validate their "Christian" status since you (and many like you) have deemed yourselves the authority on this matter.

I think we can all agree that God is perfect. If you and I ask Him (God) the same question about the bible, He will undoubtedly give us the same perfect answer. There are SO MANY "Christian religions" (by your definition) that disagree on basic points of the Bible...such a baptism (is it relevant to salvation as Jesus clearly instructs in John 3:5, or not). This would insinuate that "works" may be necessary for salvation, and that does not fall in line with the "believe only...and be saved" doctrine many of your collegues pontificate.

Obviously many of the "Christian authorities" (who qualify as Christians by your omnipotent validation) are preaching false doctrine because they are not speaking by the "Holy Ghost" or they would not be disagreeing on points of doctrine, right?

A "Christian" (by your definition) accepts the interpretations of man (blindly)as "scripture" (remember, even if there is a slight discripency of scripture interpretation, only one can be from GOD...the other is by man or FALSE DOCTRINE). The same preacher that indoctrinated you may infact be relying too much on his/her scholastic knowledge of scriptures and not fully understanding what Peter was saying.

In reality, I find that most "Christians" of your ideology are the ones that "cherry pick" scriptures, most feel that the only scripture of true relevance is John 3:3. Is Baptism neccesary or not...lets read together..."Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." I don't know how you can believe that baptism is not a necessary "work" or ordinance for eternal salvation after reading that scripture.

The bottom line is that when there are SOOO many differing protestant religions, how do you have the time to define "Mormons" or members of "The Church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints." You should be spending time trying to sort out which of the several thousands of bible worshiping religions is actually consulting God on what is the correct interpretation of His word and not relying on a Bible College Diploma to give them authority to add whatever sounds best for the sermon on Sunday.

Last Friday I attended a funeral of a beautiful eight year old girl who had received a heart transplant when she was a few months old. She has now gone to meet loved ones on the other side and to thank the little baby boy who died that she might live longer. The words to the song we sang there for her bear witness that we are Christian.

I Feel My Savior's Love

I feel my Savior's love
In all the world around me.
His Spirit warms my sou,
Through everything I see.

Lynne I

You know not of what you speak.

Natalie

I understand the need to allow those of different faiths to have religious freedom to worship.Nothing addressed the fact that the Mormans not only follow the Jesus of the Bible and do not believe in the Holy Trinity, but they follow the text they created, "The Book of Morman" rather than the Bible. What happened to the first commandment. I consider the "addition" of another so called holy book that they follow to be ample proof enough that they are a cult.
I also think that because John F. Kennedy chose to address them in Salt Lake City does not validate them either. John Smith finding tablets on his farm and later publishing this information into a new book, The Book of Morman,does not make them devine. It explains the basis of their belief system, it does not make the story true. Any true Christain knows that we are commanded to follow the teachings of the Bible and only the Bible as the word of God. The Bible teaches that God ceated Heaven and Earth. He sent His his only Son, Jesus to die for our sins so we could again have a relationship with Him and never to be parted. Jesus told his Apostles that even though he would be crucified, that he would rise from the dead to sit at the right hand of the Father. Jesus said he would send us one to 'comfort us' and guide us, the Holy Spirt. The Bible teaches the Holy Trinity. Any Christian who does not believe in the the entirety of the Holy Bible but "cherry picks" what suits them and then creates their own "Book" to follow is sacriligious and definitly not a Christain. No matter how they try to cloak themselves, they are a cult. (Please excuse my poor spelling and writing skills.)

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What has happened to all the comments from December through March?

Excellent Article. I believe Mormons are Christians, possibly the most dedicated to being followers of Jesus of Nazareth than most other faiths, since they believe in following the Biblical Christ, not some edited version to make Him politically correct in modern times.

Paul, to under stand LDS doctrine on this you have to read some of the Scripture given to the Prophet Joseph Smith. The Devil or Lucifer was not always Satan the father of Lies. This quote is from the Book of Moses which was revealed directly to the Prophet.

AND I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
5 And now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which I, the Lord God, had made.
6 And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 4:1 - 6)

The bible does teach us of the third of the Host of heaven (Father in heaven's spirit children) were cast out because of rebellion and not given their first estate (to come here and receive physical bodies (temples) to house their spirit. The great blessing Satan will never have.

Jesus and lucifer being brothers, is against the scriptures. for Jesus claims to be God. Lucifer or satan is a created being that wanted to be like or above the most high - Isaiah 14
this contradicts scriptures-

I thought some of those replying to Michael Otterson's article in the vein of the Mormons being racist would like to know that the Book of Mormon fell into the hands of a few Black Africans in the 1950's and 1960's and liked it so much they shared it with thousands of others. None of these people appear to have thought the Church racist and waited patiently for the time when the Church was set up properly in their countries. Their experience is depicted in a documentary film called Pioneers in Africa. Likewise there have been quite a few black members in other countries who likewise waited patiently for their opportunity to be given all the blessings of membership. Mormons believe it is the Lord who dictates when and how things should be done in the Church which bears his name. No-one really know why the Lord did not extend full membership to all from the outset but one can guess that it had something perhaps to do with their freedoms and the eliminating to some extent the bigotry which existed back then. Like many, as a member of the Mormon faith I prayed furvently for all the blessings of membership to be given, and thankfully they were.

Thank you for clarifying our stance on being Christians. I have had several discussions with friends and strangers about how our beliefs are based completely upon the teachings of the Savior, Jesus Christ, and how now today we have the privilege of hearing from modern-day prophets who receive instruction for us in the present day. Thank you for writing this piece.

D Perry

Thanks for the link to the paper written by non Mormon "mainstream christians". It was a very fascinating and educational read. I had to use my widget dictionary over and over again to understand it but it was well worth it.

Nat

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Jesus is the Christ!

After reading so many Born again Christian/evangelist posts I am reminded of the Pharisees and religious leaders and scholars of the jews at the time of the saviors ministry while in the flesh. They spoke with the master,... beheld him and his miracles,...they had the scriptures of the old testament and had legitimate claim to his priesthood authority. Yet they labeled him as mad or of as one being possessed with a devil. Eventually falsely accusing him and having him crucified.

Your un-christlike and intolorant comments with regards to the Latter-day saints: their claims, and doctrines are very much like the way the jews reacted to the master as he tried to teach his gospel. The only gospel there is! You so called christians have a Bible but you do not fully understand it or you would be able to live your christian lifestyles fully confident of your salvation and understanding of the masters doctrines. He did not teach contention and ill will but taught they should be done away with. I disagree with many of your born again /evangelical doctrines and interpretations of the Bible yet I commend you on you desire to follow the master and pray you continue in the faith and gain more knowledge and understanding as to how to live your life more fully in harmony with his teachings. Latter-day saints do not ask that you believe our faith to be true because we believe it. We only ask that you follow the admonition of the savior: Love God with all your heart mind and strength and love your neighbor as your self...- The two great commandments. However we do always offer and are willing to share our beliefs with any and all who desire further light and knowledge. Do some homework if you want to be a critic of the Latter-day saint faith understand the doctrines as we believe them instead of mis quoting and having the facts distorted in you explanations of what we believe. Did you know many latter-day saint scholars contribute to the the advancement and understanding of the bible even among evangelical and "mainstream" christian theologists. check this paper written and researched by non Mormon "mainstream christians" http://www.cometozarahemla.org/others/mosser-owen.html

For more information on what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1

Another good starting point on LDS (Mormon) beliefs:

http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/the-restoration-of-truth/god-is-your-loving-heavenly-father

As a Latter Day Saint, I am happy and content to know that my personal Savior is Jesus Christ. My doctrinal beliefs may differ from yours be it Catholic, Evangelical, or any other traditional Protestant religion. Instead of fighting about our differences, let's try to celebrate our religious similarities. I try to do this with my friends, neighbors and colleagues. I worship God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. I know that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ love me as well as I know they love you. We are all God's children. If the "Christian" world does not want to recognize me as a christian, sobeit, I simply recognize myself as a "follower of Christ". I take no offense. I know that I can not in any way be saved by my own "good deeds", only through the atonement that Jesus Christ made for me. I am forever in His debt. For me, I try to follow the admonition of Jesus Christ and "Love one another" as stated in the Bible. That isn't always easy when others label or insult me. But I will continue to try to follow His example.

If you want to learn about the Momon faith, pick up a Book of Mormon and read it. Get your religion from God not form somebody or something. God will tell you.

Daniel
How do you know that the god of mormonism is not the God of the Bible? What proof do you have of that??? Again, it's your own interpretation of whatever you are reading. And what you are reading is likely the interpretation of someone else's interpretation of the bible.
Nat

Above article majors on the mental gymnastics to explain the ant-Christian position of the mormon church.
mormonism is not only not Christian , but anti-Christian. Very simple stated, the god of mormonism is not the God of the Bible period
and if a different god it follows another jesus, another spirit and certainly another gospel.
I can document any statement above
Dan

I am ok with some Christians saying that Mormons are not Christians. I believe I am a Christian and hear is why:

1.) I believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in his son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2.) I believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of all mankind. I have accepted him into my heart.
3.) I believe Jesus did the atonement for everyone’s sins even mine.
4.) I believe That Jesus was crucified, and he did rise on the 3rd day.
5.) I believe that Jesus Christ will one day come to earth again to rule and rain as king.
6.) I believe Jesus Christ is the only way we can get to heaven.
7.) I believe that it is only by the grace of God that mankind can be saved. We can not be saved by are works. We are not able to save ourselves because we are imperfect and all have sinned. We are all indebted to Jesus Christ and he set the price one must pay to know him and return to our father in heaven.

Read the bible and you can judge for yourself if I am a Christian or not. I want everyone to know that I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day Saints. I know there are difference between my church and other Christian churches.
I write this not to convince anyone else that I am a Christian but to let them know that Jesus Christ is as important to me as any Christian. He is my savior and I love Him. He died for my sins and I can not thank him enough. It is enough for me to believe I am a Christian.

"...Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

So sad, we have traveled so far.....

While the statements you make regarding Mormon beliefs are true, I feel an important issue which causes problems between Mormons and people of other faiths has not been addressed.

If you attend one of the Mormon's first Sunday "testimony" meetings, you will hear them declare that they are "the only true Church." They believe their church's doctrine is the only one that will lead to life with God after death and that other faith's doctrines fall short. Although Mormons say they believe in letting others "worship how, where, or what they may," their missionary recruiting efforts stem from their belief that all people need to become Mormon and adhere to their doctrine in order to achieve exaltation.

I know this because I was a devout Mormon having served in many leadership positions within the church for over 25 years.

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Thank you washingtonpost.com for going to the source - a spokesperson for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for clarification on LDS beliefs. So many inaccuracies are being published daily because many media outlets will not take the time to search out someone who knows the facts.

We hope that others will follow your lead and return a healthy dose of integrity back into journalism.

Lisa West
Sacramento, CA

Thank you washingtonpost.com for going to the source - a spokesperson for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for clarification on LDS beliefs. So many inaccuracies are being published daily because many media outlets will not take the time to search out someone who knows the facts.

We hope that others will follow your lead and return a healthy dose of integrity back into journalism.

Lisa West
Sacramento, CA

I find it particularly sad that all these responses go to such extremes to criticize, denounce, or other wise discredit people for something they believe in.
How many articles, blogs, or other mediums of directing; in it's very nature, a hostile emotion against any of the other faiths are hosted by members of this church. If you look you will probably be surprised to find little if not any in relative relation to amount in the contrary. Please keep in mind that we all have the right to believe in what we want to. And that a persons religious affiliations or absence thereof are not reasons to criticize.

I find it particularly sad that all these responses go to such extremes to criticize, denounce, or other wise discredit people for something they believe in.
How many articles, blogs, or other mediums of directing; in it's very nature, a hostile emotion against any of the other faiths are hosted by members of this church. If you look you will probably be surprised to find little if not any in relative relation to amount in the contrary. Please keep in mind that we all have the right to believe in what we want to. And that a persons religious affiliations or absence thereof are not reasons to criticize.

Some of these hateful posts just amaze me. Why do these people feel that they have the authority to judge whether Mormons are Christians or not?
How can they make that judgemnt? Ultimately it will be the Lord Jesus Christ that makes that determination, not these Mormon Haters. "Judge not lest ye be judged." Many evangelicals like to use the phrase "What would Jesus do?" If Jesus were here now, would He be hateful of other religions? Would He be saying the terrible things about Mormons that I have seen printed in many of these posts? Would he be proud of all the "anti" books in your "Christian" bookstores?

We are supposed to be judged by our works. A good tree does not bring forth evil fruit. Based upon the good works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Mormon Bashing by many of the Evangelicals, I think many Evangelicals would be ashamed to be in the Lord's presence when the "sheep are separated from the goats."

Mormons respect everyone no matter what religion they belong to. Cannot the Evangelicals show us the same respect? As the Lord said, let us "Love one another" As to the hateful comments I say: "God forgive them, for they know not what they do."

God bless us all to respect and to love one another.

Jesus Christ would be ashamed of the vitroil expressed by some people who call themselves Christians -- as a long-time observer of the social scene, I think that many "Christians" who most loudly insist that Mormons aren't Christians aren't very good Christians themselves -- and many Mormons who quietly follow their Redeemer's teachings truly are Christians.

Most statements that Mormons aren't Christians aren't made for theological reasons or in a spirit of honest intellectual inquiry -- they are made for hateful reasons. And Jesus Christ would be ashamed at the hatefulness of many of those who call themselves Christians will denying the title to others. Matthew 23:13 comes to mind, and Matthew 23:27-32, substituting "modern-day Mormon haters" for "scribes and pharisees".

Let us love our neighbor, and try to live as Jesus would want us to.

Some food for thought, Does the Bible say there will be Prophets and Angels come to the earth in our day? Try using the KJV .

(Old Testament | Malachi 4:1 - 6)

FOR, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 ¶ But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
4 ¶ Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 ¶ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Can we agree that Malachi was referring the second coming of Christ? Has there yet been a time all the proud and wicked have been made as stubble, he also states an ancient prophet will be sent to the earth to perform an important task of turning the “heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers”

Read the account of an angelic ministry:
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1: Verses 27-
54.) http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/27-54#27

(New Testament | Revelation 11:

In the last days two prophets will preach but shall be slain in Jerusalem. How can so many Christian churches of the day not believe in their bibles? There will be false prophets but also true ones.

(New Testament | Revelation 14:

Doesn’t this speak to the last days when the gospel shall preached by angelic ministry

I read quite a few posts that say that even Muslims believe in Jesus but that doesn't make them Christians... too true but Mormons don't just believe that Jesus lived and was a prophet... They believe that He is their Savior and Redeemer and that He died for their sins. BIG difference.

Thank you for this article. I have also enjoyed reading many of the comments. I only read a few but there is on that I would particularly like to comment on. To thoroughly do so I believe I must give a brief background of my life. I was born into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is all that I have truly known. I do have an understanding for the other faiths that are out there and I respect what they stand for and believe that many of those people are truly good and kind. I am now twenty years old and am attending a university-no, it is not BYU.

This particular comment is a reply to someone who claimed that the Book of Mormon was fabricated. I am here to say, although that is your opinion I disagree. I can completely accept that you feel the way you do but I hope that this comment may help you think about it more. (And just to let you know I am not writing this trying to convert you, I just want to give my side.)

I could write this from a factual stand point saying something like, "Joseph Smith could not have made up the Book of Mormon because he had very little formal education," but I will not write it that way. What I want to say is how I know that it is true. It is the only way that someone can learn it is true. I read it with an open heart, mind and most importantly I prayed. Just because I was raise LDS does not mean that I never had doubts or questions. There came a time in my teens that I had to find this out for myself. I could no longer rely on what others had told me or what others believed. When that time came I had to pray and read to find out for myself. Through the Holy Spirit my believe and questions on whether the Book of Mormon and the Church were true was confirmed. I now know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true and that the Book of Mormon is true. That is what I believe.

Now, if I may make a suggestion, it is for you to read it. This is meant specifically for Jerry but if you too want to know what you think about it then please simply read it. Like I said I am not trying to convert you but I think to understand it you must first read it. Not just read it but be willing to read it with an open mind. If you go into it thinking to yourself that you are going to find every single thing wrong with it then you are not going to rationalize every little thing that you don't understand into being some falsehood. But, if you read it with the mind to be educated you might learn more about our faith and our beliefs. I hope this helps in the education of people.

I was baptized at age on 9, as I had a broken leg during the timeof my 8th birthday, in the Tabernacle on Temple Square, but my conversion came later in life as i read and studied the Book of Mormon and felt the spirit of the book and the messages. Through fasting and prayer and further study I was convinced. The Trinity concept had always confused me and I came to feel that the concept was the result of many ment making a compromise to try to make all the different participants happy with the final creed. Mormons believe that the Father and the Son have bodies, the boy Joseph Smith saw them during a marvelous visitation, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. I could comprhend that. Many times the bible says that the Son could only do what He had seen the Father do. Seems simple to me. Religion should not be uncomprehensible.

As a member of the LDS church please be advised that I am a Christian, and instead of looking at my religion as starting in the1800's you really need to go back a few years more.

The fact is that we consider Christianity to be as old as the Earth and not just a Jesus invention from the time of his death and resurrection. What we teach about Christianity is that it was taught to Adam all the way until Christ was crucified. It revolves around the idea of gifts in a symbolic manner. Adam's Gospel looked forward to the time when Christ himself would be the sacrafice for man's sins. When Adam offered sacrafice with the firstling of the flock in was animal sacrafice in similitude of the sacrafice of Jesus to come at a future date.

Christ came and did just that in his own words: "I come to fulfill the law". The trouble with man and the Jews of the time, was that they were not looking for spiritual solutions - they were looking for political/worldly solutions to their problems. From the time of Christ's resurrection to the present the sacrafice is still present that is required of God to hold Jesus in Memoriam only now instead of the animal sacrafice required anciently we have the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper which Mormons partake and drink of 48 times a year which Jesus himself commanded to be done and we also offer a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

So to my protestant and catholic friends please do not call me a cultist. When I was younger I was baptized as Jesus was, immersed by someone having authority to do so in a font or pool of water. Many of my other Christian friends who proclaim me a cultist have never been baptized. My baptism occurred in October many years ago in a building 70 miles from my home. On Monday of the following week, when my friends asked where I was on Saturday, I told them I was baptized. The older kids made fun of me and at our bus stop was a huge puddle of water left over from a rain storm. They proceeded to drag me through this before the bus came got me all wet all over and there was broken glass from soda pop bottles in the mud hole which cut my butt and back.

I have never complained about that because Jesus went through a whole bunch of suffering for me and died for my sins in a huge way. Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the Living God. I accept this even with all of my imperfections.

Please don't tell me what I am, I know what I am.

God loves us all as his children and I love you all too. God be praised.

Respectfully submitted,

Max Lawson
blawson626@msn.com

I'm a Latter-Day Saint and a descendant of the pioneers and the Latter-Day Saints of the late 1800's who were driven across the country by persecution and prophecy like the children of Israel in ancient times. My middle name happens to be 'Christian'. I work in an art gallery where a significant part of the art is religious. Catholics and Baptists and other Christians have ironically been known to use artwork by Latter-Day Saint artists in representing their Christianity artistically. Gustave Dore and Carl Bloch were not Latter-Day Saints but they were certainly Christians. I'm in accord with much of their depictions of Christ. I believe in the Old Testament (of Jesus Christ), the New Testament (of Jesus Christ), and The Book of Mormon (Another Testament of Jesus Christ). I find it extremely confusing when I hear others suggest that 'Mormons aren't Christians', because in fact I hold that Jesus Christ himself stands at the head of his church and nothing could be more twisted then to call Christ's church not 'Christian'. To do so is to deny that you're reading these words at this moment.

The majority of the Mormons that I know are fantastic human beings. Most people who know Mormons seem to agree. If "being Christian" is defined as something like "believing in or striving to follow Christ" then Mormons clearly are Christians.

So the more interesting question becomes: why are Evangelicals so hateful and critical of Mormons? The answer is MONEY. One of my insightful Evangelical friends summed it up best as "professional jealousy".

Evangelical pastors personally feel the hurt in their wallets when members of their congregations join the Mormon church. Like most competitive businessmen they will do anything they can to cast their "competitors" as villans. Unfortunately their interest in "self preservation" leads to the perpetuation of demeaning and misleading half truths.

Mormons, on the other hand, do not have a paid clergy and therefore do not have the same financial motivation to attack. That, in a nutshell is why you feel the different demeanors as you read through these threads.

The Evangelical's vicious assaults start to make sense only when their agenda (protection of cash flow) is understood.

To answer a question posted earlier, yes, Mormons do consider other Christian religions "Christian."

As an active member of the Church for over 50 years, I am sad to hear the misguided arguments trying to discredit the true Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. To a Mormon, any church that believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ is a Christian church. We believe that all churches have truth and teach some correct principles. What we tell the world is that we have more. Come and find out from us what the Lord has revealed in this day. The heavens are not closed. Isn't it wonderful?!

Jesus Christ himself was accused of being led by Satan by religious leaders of the day. If you really want to know the truth about God, you have to humble yourself and become totally submissive to his word. Keep his commandments the best that you can. Pray "with all the energy of your heart" to Heavenly Father to lead you to the truth. Then be patient, put aside all bias and religious dogma that may remain in your heart. Let God lead you to the truth.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints never puts down other churches, but shows them respect and admiration for the good that they do. We too wish for the salvation of mankind. But we don't believe we help others find God by denigrating their beliefs. We believe and teach each other to love one another. Hate is never a Christian teaching. "By their fruits ye shall know them." It's as simple as that. If your neighbor loves the Lord and shows it by being "honest, true, chaste, benevolent," etc. then your neighbor is truly a Christian.

It is true that Christian ministers might lose their congregations if members leave their churches to become members of my church. (Entire congregations gained testimonies of the gospel in the time of Joseph Smith. Their ministers and all joined the Church.) But if God leads you into his fold, he won't desert you. You will be blessed with whatever it is you need, even if that is a new job.

Each Sunday, as I keep the Sabbath and worship God by attending church, I come home with such joy and hope and love for my fellow man. I am so thankful to God (yes, Heavenly Father and his son, Jesus Christ--two separate individuals, but entirely one in purpose) for the purpose he gives to life through his wonderful plan of happiness. "Man is that he might have joy."

God bless.

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No one creed or denomination owns or defines the word Christian. Check you dictionary, folks. Christian: "professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following a religion based on his teachings." While we may have significant theological differences among various denominations, Mormons, Baptists, Lutherans, Catholics, Seventh-day Adventists, you name it, we all are appropriately defined as Christians. To ascribe a position to another person which he does not claim is more than rude, it is dishonest. I have studied the above denominations sufficiently to know each believes in the atonement of Christ and relies on the merits of Christ for salvation. If I were to say to a Baptist, "you do not believe in Christ because I find you do not understand Christ as I do" I would be acting in an unchrist-like manner. (By their fruits ye shall know them)

It would be a great idea for everyone to learn and practice the 11th Article of Faith.

It would be a great idea for everyone to learn and practice the 11th Artivle of Faith.

After all that has been said, The only thing I have to say is, Read the Book of Mormon, Pray and decide for yourself, you do not need to take anyones word for anything--you can find out on your own. Isn't that great!!! We live in a free land where we can read, study and pray.

After all that has been said, The only thing I have to say is, Read the Book of Mormon, Pray and decide for yourself, you do not need to take anyones word for anything--you can find out on your own. Isn't that great!!! We live in a free land where we can read, study and pray.

Jesse Neihart Your Question:
"What is the difference between the Orthodox Christian Trinity and the God Head? How do the differ, to me they seem almost the same"

Refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Christianity

It explains differences pretty good.

Good article! Why don't the professional anti-mormons get a real job? One wonders if they are anti-semetic as well.

What is the difference between the Orthodox Christian Trinity and the God Head? How do the differ, to me they seem almost the same.

I thought this was an informative article, I have read many of the articles responding to it and find it very difficult to understand why it would provoke such negative comments. I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day-Saints (The Mormon Church)for over 30 years. I am a Christian, I love the Bible, I read the King James version, and have done so from cover to cover several times. I am just a very ordinary person, I have raised a family on the teachings of the church I belong to and they have grown into good people, educated, responsible, and hard working, who are now raising fine families of their own. I have also read the Book of Morman many times, I find no contradictions in what I have read in the Bible. Only sound direction from both, they have been a great help in trying to raise a family in a world where there seems to be so much confusion. Why do we need a definition of what a Christian is, just do what Christ taught us to do.
Carol Mckee

Dear Reader,

In the last paragraph Michael Otterson makes two statements..."all {religions in the USA} encountered resisitance and oppression" and "Many a great nation has been torn by religious feuds and holy wars-but never the United States of America",these two statements exclude each other.

Thank you

How could someone think mormons are non-christians when the very name of their Church bears the Saviors`s name? Just going through our Articles of Faith should be enough to convince the most resilient.

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So, Mormons are not Christians? Then they should not only change the Name of their church, but also their Core Belief System.

As stated in their Articles of Faith (their Beliefs Summary)

* * *

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

* * *

For a Church that we castigate & label - NOT Christian, they sure believe in a lot of 'christian' stuff!!

Perhaps, by the way we attack those of their persuasion, we are the ones not 'christian-like'..... Oh, heaven forbid!

But OUR Brand of Christianity wouldn't DO THAT!

Shocking, isn't it!

This was good to read. It seems that I have read a lot of negativity lately with this church. I only know one guy here in Michigan who is a mormon, but he is a great guy. He looks and acts very christian to me. Makes you wonder why there is so much adversity towards this religion. I guess it has been like that with every "serious" religion since time began.

Although I worship and try to follow Jesus Christ, the criterion I have found most useful in choosing good friends and presidents is not Christianity, but Integrity. Not, “Does she believe everything that I believe?”, but “Does she consistently do what she says she will?”
The Saviour taught, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21) One writer in this blog suggests we answer the question, "Are the Mormons Christian?" with "Ask their neighbors."
Re-lig-ion means literally, re-connect-ion. Connection requires integrity. I’ve read anti-Catholic, anti-Masonic and much anti-Mormon literature over the years; every piece is riddled with carefully crafted half-truths and subtle deceptions. Deceit disconnects people not only from each other but from reality. By contrast, simple, true summaries of what the LDS people live and teach our children to live are found at www.Mormon.org. I recommend that one request a free Book of Mormon there and use it in prayerful daily scripture study together with the Holy Bible. Within a few uplifting hours one will discover the most elevating truths in existence and the most powerful testimonies of the Divine Son of God to be found anywhere.
I have also read the scriptures of Islam, Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism, and watched their people around me. I revere the great souls, even prophets, who stand at the heads of those inspired religions and the billions of people who faithfully follow their teachings. You do not see the truth about the world’s religions in the news, but at your children’s soccer games.
I personally believe that all of the great religions lead to Christ. If the Saviour’s Atonement actually makes it possible for men and women “that overcometh…to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne” following this life (and I testify that it does just that) then the only humane response to His supernal gift is, “Thank you. How can I serve You?” The next humane response is to turn to Muhammad, Lao Tsu, the Buddha, the Vedas and render humble thanks for their inspired teachings which lead one’s heart to love goodness and deny self for others.

Thank you for an excellent article. Your coverage was fair and well researched. Those of us who are members of the faith do so appreciate a positive and accurate story from the media. We are grateful to have such an articulate spokesperson for the Church.

I look forward to your continued service. Today's press conference was excellent. You obviously have the confidence and respect of the media--both local and national.

Sincerely,

Zuriel Knowles
Boise, ID

As a member of the LDS church, I appreciated the balanced presentation given in this article - it informs, without being insulting. Following the link Stendahl's "three rules" is also worthwhile - clearly written by someone who has thought carefully about others' religions, as well as his own - and good advice for anyone who would attack another person's beliefs.

My own experience has been that the Mormon "version" of Christianity (I wouldn't call it that, but others might) makes a lot more sense than many other "versions" of Christianity that I have encountered - the doctrines are understandable and sensible, and they work. Faith, repentance, baptism, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost are all active and fundamental aspects of the LDS beliefs.

A little extra information - members of the LDS church treasure all of what is considered scripture in their church - the Old and New Testaments, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants (modern day revelation) and the Pearl of Great Price. These scriptures all complement one another, and are used together to understand the gospel taught by Christ. It is by studying all of the scriptures, dilgently comparing them, and steadfastly living them, that members of the LDS church practice their religion.

A side comment that some of you might find interesting - I was listening to a program on CBC today, where they were explaining the views of one of the "new age" philosophers. His opinion was that most of the "traditional" regligions of the world were just pure dogma; that they lacked any direct experience of God. I could assure him that God is alive and well in some Chrisitian religions, and that direct experience, including feeling the influence of the Holy Ghost and personal revelation, is one of the most cherished parts of the LDS faith. Ask any member of the LDS church: "What is it that makes your faith so vital, and attracts so many people?", and the answer will almost invariably come back "Personal revelation, and through that, personal testimony of the gospel".

I am thankful for this article. I believe it will be helpful to people confused about our beliefs. We do love and worship our savior Jesus Christ and we love reading and studying the bible along with with the Book of Mormon.

Michael,
When are you going to finish the article. You close w/ Jack Kennedy's statement, but are you going to capitalize on that point? I realize that then Senator Kennedy was trying to build bridges, but at least he tried. The concern that's apparent is that everyone is likely to point fingers, side with the big bully, and repeat the mistakes of the past because they don't intend to learn from past mistakes.

Oh well. I did enjoy your article. Just wish it were longer.

Dan

To all professed Christians:

James 1: 26-27

26. If any man among you seem to be religous, and bridleth not his own tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27. Pure religion and udefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 4: 10

10. Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art NOT a doer of the law, but a judge.

Peter 1: 22

22. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

Peter 2: 1&9 (Speaking to converts)

1. Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocricies, and envies, and all evil speaking
9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priestood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.

It is unfortunate that any person of faith would choose to attack others with the rancor I have read in this thread. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and have never, in 50 years, felt the negative, hateful feelings about my church that others try to ascribe to it. On the contrary, it is a source of great goodness as I try to live up to its gospel teachings. Sadly, some believe that Constantine's description of God at the Council of Nicea, hundreds of years after the life of Christ, not only determines who can and who cannot call themselves "Christian" today, but further, allows persecution of those who disagree. Rather than divisive attacks on one another, why not look at the good accomplished by all religions? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seeks to serve and help others, after the pattern of our Savior Jesus Christ. We do this through humanitarian aid to many parts of the world, from measles immunizations for children in Africa, to assistance after Hurricane Katrina and the tsunami, and a host of other needs. Aid is given to the poor, needy, elderly, and hungry here in the United States and around the world. The gospel of love and forgiveness is taught in our meetings. We learn of our Savior and His atoning sacrifice for us. Hymns of worship are sung, and we strive to come unto Christ. Children are taught to pray to their Father in Heaven, in the name of Jesus Christ. Families are emphasized and strengthened. I would like to hear of good works from other religions, that we might inspire each other to do better. As people of faith, that would be a worthy goal. As Americans, it could bring back the spirit of optimism and generosity that can strengthen our great country.

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Thank you for this informative and open minded article.

Sincerely,

R. Luke

It is amazing that some who call themselves Christians can judge and teach against, write negative article and books about and offer classes simply to convert or be able to tell “the Morman” Neighbor... where they are supposedly wrong. Is this not judging? Is this having a Christian attitude toward our neighbor? As a religion were persecution has existed, why can’t others understand why we keep some things private. Why we put our families and God and his son Jesus Christ, first in our lives. We should all enjoy the rights of this country to worship how and where we want with out others saying, you are wrong to do so. They are wrong to judge. Are they not? I want to protect my children from the hurtful comments of other children who find it necessary to say hurtful things they have learned from there parents. Is it not our job to teach tolerance and love and respect of others. Otherwise to be a Christian Neighbor, someone who wants to be LIKE Christ and follow his example of true charity and humbleness in all our daily activities.
God is my father who art in heaven hallowed be his name, Jesus is my brother who was crucified for my sins so that I can live with him again. Joseph Smith is a True Modern day prophet of the Lord. He was a human with flaws just like the rest of us, he is judged by others because it is not understood by all it is something new. Just like Joseph Smith, we can get down on our knees and ask if what he did is really what he says he did. But you must go to the lord with an open heart, contrite spirit and a willingness to listen to how you feel or you will miss that little witness that is it true. Unless it is done with humbleness and no prejudging in your heart you will never know, will you?
I love what Kennedy said, what an incredible man, his heart was open to our love of God and to how we think.
Thank you for the article and the links in it to information about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints
The Name Morman is actually a prophet in the book of the same name (FYI) and it’s usage at the time of its Translation from the Gold Plates and still is used slanderly toward the faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am a Child of god and he has sent me here to be tried and judged for my works just like any other soul on this earth.
I love my Heavenly Father he is my redeemer I know this in the purity of my warm heart to the truthfulness of the teachings of the Bible and a side by side companion to it the Book of Morman.
It brings tears to my eyes to know that there are those out there that will rip my words apart and not give them a second glance, but I will pray for all those who do read it and forgive those who will laugh at me, for they do not know a true Christian. They are the ones that use the word Christian as a name for there religion, but fall short of living up to that name. I pray...

This is a wonderful article and I am pleased to hear a well balanced perspective on the religion which means so much to me. I am glad to hear also that many stereotypes are starting to dissolve before the perspective of the world. I hope that others will see the depth and character of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as it rolls it's work into the new year. I am appreciative for the comments made in this forum and the respect for all religions treated herein. Thank you.

Brig Day

This is a wonderful article and I am pleased to hear a well balanced perspective on the religion which means so much to me. I am glad to hear also that many stereotypes are starting to dissolve before the perspective of the world. I hope that others will see the depth and character of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as it rolls it's work into the new year. I am appreciative for the comments made in this forum and the respect for all religions treated herein. Thank you.

Brig Day

This is a wonderful article and I am pleased to hear a well balanced perspective on the religion which means so much to me. I am glad to hear also that many stereotypes are starting to dissolve before the perspective of the world. I hope that others will see the depth and character of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as it rolls it's work into the new year. I am appreciative for the comments made in this forum and the respect for all religions treated herein. Thank you.

Brig Day

This is a wonderful article and I am pleased to hear a well balanced perspective on the religion which means so much to me. I am glad to hear also that many stereotypes are starting to dissolve before the perspective of the world. I hope that others will see the depth and character of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as it rolls it's work into the new year. I am appreciative for the comments made in this forum and the respect for all religions treated herein. Thank you.

Brig Day

This is a wonderful article and I am pleased to hear a well balanced perspective on the religion which means so much to me. I am glad to hear also that many stereotypes are starting to dissolve before the perspective of the world. I hope that others will see the depth and character of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as it rolls it's work into the new year. I am appreciative for the comments made in this forum and the respect for all religions treated herein. Thank you.

Brig Day

I wish to emphasazise here that God created us in his own image, then we fell into sin and God himself saved us by sending his son Jesus Christ to die for everyone. It seems that we are trying to say which Church is a Christian church and which one is not, the fact is that we all believe in God, only one God that created us, like what one of the previous comment was saying: if you say you are a Christian but the fruit of Christian doesn't come out in that person then she or he is lying, but if somebody claims to say that she or he is Mormon and we see the fruits of Christlike comes out in that person then I would say that, that person is a real Christian. No one in this whole wide world is perfect except for Jesus Christ. If we keep on criticising the Mormon belief then we are arguing with God's words and doctrines. With someone was saying that Mormons are encouraging breeding large families, what is the point of being against it???? If the families look after their own welfare plus the unconditional help of the church why do we need to criticise their own business. To wrap up the whole point, worship and do what we are told by the bible to do and then we don't have to look around to judge our fellow companions, we will just focus just on our personal relationship with God and God to us.

Thank you for that note, that was succeint and illuminating. I greatly enjoyed reading JFK's comments too, it increase my respect for him and makes me sorely wish we could have some clarity in todays political world, but perhaps that is pipe dream.

I keep reading about how sexist and racism Mormons are, but do any of you actually know any Mormons in good standing with the church? There are well over 100 temples around the world in which Mormons go to worship, from Africa to Asia, From Brazil to Canada. We are not only not racism, we are in no way sexist. Just because we as a people share a common belief of the family as the central unit and see and support the importance of a mother and a father does not make us sexist. And the fact that only men can receive the Priesthood is not any different in the Mormon religon than in any other Christian faith. Ask any Mormon woman if she would like to hold the Priesthood and I can bet her answer is "No way!" Before you all go on judging Mormons I suggest you get to know one, and not an inactive member or one who had apostatized the church.

Otterson's article was very accurate. I would suggest to those wondering why the vitriol spewed towards the LDS Church is so pervasive ,I suggest dear reader,Two simple reasons. First, "Follow the Money" The LDS Church has no paid clergy. Really, read Time Magazine's article on the subject. Second,The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints claims to be The restored Church of Jesus Christ, not simply another version of the "traditional" post-apostolic 4th century Christian churches. Consider then,the modern professionally trained minister, his very livelihood depends on two things, first,his flock must be satisfied with his performance or authority and secondly, believe that he is the conduit that tithes are given. How likely is it that he would be uncomfortable with the LDS Church's Biblically-based organization of a lay clergy? Very uncomfortable you might surmise, Since his income is derived from the good pleasure of his congregation, would he not logically direct his stewardship in ways that would ultimately be pleasing to that congregation,ie, telling them what they want to hear, showing them what they want to see? If The LDS Church is true then his ministry/business will likely suffer a serious decline. You might then understand why he he might try to combat his perceived business competitor any way he can. thus giving us whole libraries of books, DVDs and web sites filled with aggressive "sales pitches",so to speak,attacking the LDS Church in an effort to keep his congregation/business in the positive side of the ledger.Seems simple enough to me, how about you? But, you know what they say about publicity........

I only read through a few hundred of the comments on here, but I thought I would join in the discussion. Since the passing of President Gordon B. Hinckley people started the "Mormon" debate again, about it being, or not being, a Christian church.

The author has done a tremendous job of being non-bias and educating. Like he mentions, one way of finding out more about a faith is asking its followers. But he never mentions that people could read more about it at Mormon.org . Other commentators here left anon. messages saying to go find websites from ex-mormons to find out the "Truth". If I wanted to more about a Catholic church, I wouldn't find an ex-Catholic. They could be skewed on many of the beliefs that most likely made them want to leave the church.

I think people are looking at all sorts of religions now days, and linking them to the appropriate websites after they read an article about it is only the correct thing to do.

How Do Mormons feel about the Bible,
The truth is that the Church reveres the Bible as a sacred volume of scripture. Latter-day Saints cherish its teachings and engage in a lifelong study of its divine wisdom. Moreover, during worship and instruction services the Bible and its teachings are pondered and discussed. To increase biblical understanding, the Church provides extensive resources and tools: lesson manuals, cross-reference materials, Bible maps, a Bible dictionary, and articles in various magazines. Thus, the Bible is much more than simply a collection of antiquated writings and revelations that have only scant relevance to the modern world. On the contrary, it stands in the center of the Latter-day Saints’ spiritual liChurch apostle Elder M. Russell Ballard characterized the Bible as the “bedrock of all Christianity” and one of the “pillars” of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, he described the Bible as a miracle: “It is a miracle that the Bible’s 4,000 years of sacred and secular history were recorded and preserved by the prophets, apostles, and inspired churchmen. … It is a miracle that the Bible literally contains within its pages the converting, healing Spirit of Christ, which has turned men’s hearts for centuries, leading them to pray, to choose right paths, and to search to find their Savior.” It instills real, tangible power in the lives of Latter-day Saints and offers practical solutions and spiritual guidance that inspire them to overcome challenges and trials.
ves.

How Do Mormons feel about the Bible,
The truth is that the Church reveres the Bible as a sacred volume of scripture. Latter-day Saints cherish its teachings and engage in a lifelong study of its divine wisdom. Moreover, during worship and instruction services the Bible and its teachings are pondered and discussed. To increase biblical understanding, the Church provides extensive resources and tools: lesson manuals, cross-reference materials, Bible maps, a Bible dictionary, and articles in various magazines. Thus, the Bible is much more than simply a collection of antiquated writings and revelations that have only scant relevance to the modern world. On the contrary, it stands in the center of the Latter-day Saints’ spiritual liChurch apostle Elder M. Russell Ballard characterized the Bible as the “bedrock of all Christianity” and one of the “pillars” of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, he described the Bible as a miracle: “It is a miracle that the Bible’s 4,000 years of sacred and secular history were recorded and preserved by the prophets, apostles, and inspired churchmen. … It is a miracle that the Bible literally contains within its pages the converting, healing Spirit of Christ, which has turned men’s hearts for centuries, leading them to pray, to choose right paths, and to search to find their Savior.” It instills real, tangible power in the lives of Latter-day Saints and offers practical solutions and spiritual guidance that inspire them to overcome challenges and trials.
ves.

How Do Mormons feel about the Bible,
The truth is that the Church reveres the Bible as a sacred volume of scripture. Latter-day Saints cherish its teachings and engage in a lifelong study of its divine wisdom. Moreover, during worship and instruction services the Bible and its teachings are pondered and discussed. To increase biblical understanding, the Church provides extensive resources and tools: lesson manuals, cross-reference materials, Bible maps, a Bible dictionary, and articles in various magazines. Thus, the Bible is much more than simply a collection of antiquated writings and revelations that have only scant relevance to the modern world. On the contrary, it stands in the center of the Latter-day Saints’ spiritual liChurch apostle Elder M. Russell Ballard characterized the Bible as the “bedrock of all Christianity” and one of the “pillars” of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, he described the Bible as a miracle: “It is a miracle that the Bible’s 4,000 years of sacred and secular history were recorded and preserved by the prophets, apostles, and inspired churchmen. … It is a miracle that the Bible literally contains within its pages the converting, healing Spirit of Christ, which has turned men’s hearts for centuries, leading them to pray, to choose right paths, and to search to find their Savior.” It instills real, tangible power in the lives of Latter-day Saints and offers practical solutions and spiritual guidance that inspire them to overcome challenges and trials.
ves.

I would just like to make a comment regarding the statement made that Mormons reject the Trinity as non-biblical. The fact of the matter is, members of my church do not use the word Trinity. We refer to it as the God Head. When asked if I believe in the the Trinity, I say yes, but not as others believe. To clarify that, I believe that there are 3 personages, God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. I believe that they are each seperate individuals. They are one in purpose, not one in body. For those who disagree, I ask-When Christ was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane, suffering and bleeding from every pore, if they are of one body, who then was he praying too? He was praying to our Heavenly Father in Heaven. When he was baptised by John the Baptist, the "Holy Ghost descended on him like a dove".A separate spirit. As Latter-Day Saints, we start our prayer by addressing our Heavenly Father and close in the name of Jesus Christ. I hope this helps others understand some of what we believe-even if you don't agree.

It was interesting to read what President Bush said about President Hinckley ,the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, who passed away this week. It is another example that people of every religion admire someone who trys to live the principals Christ taught. I did not know he had received "The Medal of Freedom" our Nation's highest civil award, in recognition of his lifelong public service.

Press release from Whitehouse:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080128-4.html

It was interesting to read what President Bush said about President Hinckley ,the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, who passed away this week. It is another example that people of every religion admire someone who trys to live the principals Christ taught. I did not know he had received "The Medal of Freedom" our Nation's highest civil award, in recognition of his lifelong public service.

Press release from Whitehouse:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080128-4.html

It was interesting to read what President Bush said about President Hinckley ,the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, who passed away this week. It is another example that people of every religion admire someone who trys to live the principals Christ taught. I did not know he had received "The Medal of Freedom" our Nation's highest civil award, in recognition of his lifelong public service.

Press release from Whitehouse:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080128-4.html

It was interesting to read what President Bush said about President Hinckley ,the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, who passed away this week. It is another example that people of every religion admire someone who trys to live the principals Christ taught. I did not know he had received "The Medal of Freedom" our Nation's highest civil award, in recognition of his lifelong public service.

Press release from Whitehouse:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080128-4.html

"Christians" are not Christians!

With all the replies by other Christian faiths I do have a question (ok a few questions); Are Catholics the same as Protestants? or Lutherans the same as Baptists? Are they really all the same religion because they follow a creed that was dictated in 4th and 5th centuries about Jesus Christ and God (the Trinity) by the great church councils because of so many differing views of the time? Or because they acknowledge, reverie and worship Jesus Christ differently does that make it that they are not true "Christians" by others because they are different? By what authority does one have to say that the LDS faith is or is not Christian? Is it not Jesus Christ that will call his sheep and separate them from the goats? Will his followers not know his voice? What about those that profess to Him that they are His followers and He turns them away because "He does not know them"?

We all have a relationship to God and that is represented by our choice of religion. It is our freedom to choose how we show our relationship to God that makes this country as wonderful as it is. Even those that do not believe in God have that freedom of choice to not have a relationship with Him.

The uneducated comments that have filled this discussion has shown the intolerance towards another faith because it is "different then what we believe". Should we not allow all to have the freedom of choice to worship how, where or what they may in peace and free from hatred that has so readily been shown here? Are we not to love our brother no matter what religion they choose? Are we not told "judge not lest ye be judged"? Is not perpetuating false or misrepresented accusations as fact when one has not fully studied the truth of a situation in any religion, breaking the commandment of "thou shalt not bare false witness" or "thou shalt not lie"?

Is not God the same God as in the Old Testament and New Testament as today? If He is the same through out time, would He not do now what He did then in Bible times and talk to His chosen leaders/prophets to teach His people in their time of need?

Are we not told that we should know a man or religion by the fruits of their labor? Should we not then look at what a person or religion has done to see if the good outweighs the bad? By this, should we not use this formula to determine our political leader, Commander and Chief of the free world, by looking at what they have done and accomplished in the past to know how they will be in the future?

America is a blessed country because we have the freedom of choice to be different. And it is our differences that create the masterpiece that we are all part of. Should we not then work together to make this masterpiece as best as we can for all to have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

And most of all, why does it even matter?

I know the answers to these questions... do you?

I have a firm testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ, His atoning sacrifice, and the love He has for all. I am honored to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and to be able to study and learn how to be more like Jesus Christ in my daily life and live along side my neighbor in harmony. I know without a shadow of doubt that He lives and He inspires and leads those that He has chosen to be His prophet in our time to help all that will listen. There has been no other religion or organization that has lifted, edified and acknowledged women for over a hundred years as the Relief Society. The accomplishments of the members are touched by all around the world with humanitarian aid and selfless volunteering.

Love, sacrifice, faith, hope, charity... Is this not what being Christian is all about?

I'd like to share a a personal outgrowth of this discussion vis-a-vis the current presidential election in the U.S. I'm LDS and I have voted for Evangelical candidates in the past.
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I DON'T SEE THAT I'LL EVER VOTE FOR AN EVANGELICAL CANDIDATE AGAIN.
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I used to be happy joining common cause where possible with Evangelicals, like I do with anyone else, but I find myself unable to do so anymore because:
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(1) So many of them have been so insistent that they could never support an LDS candidate, regardless of his/her qualifications, simply because of theological differences that I can't support putting into office of a government under which I am to live anyone who acts like that when they need LDS votes to become elected. If they they're so hateful, prejudiced, and willing to disenfranchise LDS people when they want/need our support, how much worse would they treat us -- in office! -- after they're elected and do not need our votes? Even if all Evangelicals do not feel this way, the lack of an Evangelical backlash, to protect my rights, against those who do feel like this warns me off voting for any Evangelical. I'll support candidates who'll step up to support me, thank you.
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(2) They continue to insistence on misstating my beliefs and to extend false arguments against them, after I've corrected them about my beliefs and countered their arguments. This tells me that these are not fre-thinking people who I can trust to listen to me and to respond to what I say -- two characteristics that I want in office holders!
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(3) Such were the ministers who led the mobs that killed Joseph Smith and persecuted the early Saints, including my ancestors. It would be foolish and would dishonor my ancestors to turn vote for like-minded antagonists now.
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I thank Mr. Huckabee for opening my eyes to this. I was considering seriously supporting him -- until he turned on us. What was he thinking? That we'd decide to vote for him anyway? Either that or he thought he didn't need us and wouldn't bother to include us. Either way, I no longer will vote for him or any of his fellow travellers.

What a wonderful write-up about The Church oof Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I hope people all over the world especially those who are bias in their opinions will open their minds and not form their judgements based on heresay.If they really wants to know more about the church, we have a website where everybody can know for themselves.

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I suppose the big question is a definition terms. Being LDS, I understand that many would not call me Christian. If they mean mainstream or traditional Christian, I'd probably have to agree with them. However, my faith is in Christ.

I know that Christ is the Savior of the world, and that only through Him, I can be happy in this life, and have hopes for a glorious future after death.

Whether by Moses, Elisha, John the Revelator, Joseph Smith, or Gordon B. Hinckley, it makes little difference, so long as we learn about Christ and come to believe in Him. Without a personal relationship with God, having a prophet in any age does us little good.

I consider myself to be Christian because I believe in Christ and strive to live what I believe to be His teachings.

Perhaps it would be more Christ-like for me to give up all my possessions and live my life as Mother Teresa did, but I don't think I could do it. Instead, I just try to live a good life, be kind and honest with others, treat my wife and daughter with love and respect, and do the best I can with what I know.

This is an enlightening and inspiring report.
Bravo!

This is an enlightening and inspiring report.
Bravo!

Are Mormons Christians? How about how many self-proclaimed "Christians" are even Chrisitans? I know nonbelievers of God Almighty who behave and act more "CHRISTIAN" than some supposed Christians. I think the better, bigger question here is why do so many extremists feel the need to LABEL people either Chrisitian or NOT based on their slanted view of what that even means. I consider myself a Christian because I believe in the Savior, Jesus Christ. I believe He lived and Died for all mankind and was resurrected and lives again. I believe because of this knowledge within my heart I am obliged to act a certain way to my neighbors, be a better person,a better citizen, a better parent, a better employee, a more reflective, forgiving, unselfish, serving person or I am not walking the walk, I am just talking the talk! Many people whow live & follow their own faith & beliefs may feel similarly about their life's path and a "Christian" might look at THEM and think they ACT LIKE A CHRISTIAN too. I have known and been closely associated with many an evangelical, born again christian who claim to be SO Christian and yet demean and hate and belittle their mormon neighbor. Some churches go so far as to hold classes for their congregation supposedly "EDUCATING" them about the evils of mormons and mormonism. HOW, pray tell does one call thelmself a christian and do, feel, behave like THIS? It is just beyond belief to me! WHY don't we all consider the MOTE in our own eyes, the follies of our own lives and be grateful that whether Mormon, Baptist, Catholic or Muslum - we are hopefully surrounded by ANYONE who lives a good, honest, law abiding life, teaching their children to love their neighbor, to forgive their imperfect friends and family members, to help a neighbor, serve the less fortunate, give of their substance - better their city, their community, their homes, their marriages, their relatinships etc. IS NOT THIS the true essence of what "CHRISTIANITY" in any form should be about? Isn't this the characteristics we hope to find and nurture in our world. If all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain 'rights' then I'd say our country was formed & founded on people who were seeking religious freedom and somehow we have LOST SIGHT of that self evident truth. Should we not be our brothers keeper? I find that MOST MORMONS, like most other good people are as CHRISTIAN A PEOPLE as you can find and am lucky to have as a friend and neighbor. Whether you believe in every single aspect of their faith & beliefs should not matter at all! They, like all the rest of us, DO HAVE the right to believe and ascept and follow the TRUTHS that we believe are right and true and that obviously is DIFFERENT TO ALL MEN or we wouldn't have hundreds of different churches following hundreds of different DOGMA now would we?

I have just read the article by Michael Otterson and I was impressed with the insight about the doctrinal differences between Christian beliefs on the trinity and the Mormon doctrine concerning the "trinity" It cleared up some questions that I have had and now I can explain this more clearly to people who are not members of he church.

Thank you for this article

Sally

With all of the "history buffs" that have posted on this long stream I am surprised to see a true lack of consideration and discussion of the origins of "christianity" other than those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Historically speaking, all "christian" and protestant religions can find their oldest beginings in the doctrines of the Catholic church. If not from there, through some inspiration/vision from God in relatively recent times (similar perhaps to Joseph Smith's, although certainly less dramatic). The Catholic church would have you believe direct succesion of the Pope from the Apostle Peter. The reality is that even the Catholic church really only organized some 500 years after the death of Christ and the Apostles. The original Popes were actually more like war lords, some quite viscious and blood thirsty in their pursuit of power. One of which was only 12 years old. Does this make the Catholic Church evil? Through his writings, I have great respect for John Cardinal Ratzinger, now more widely known as Pope Benedict. All religions where "men" were involved have their dark history. That does not make the religion wrong or bad, only the men bad. Many religions have "true" or biblical based beliefs. It is up to our free agency to decide which is the real, true message, with the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chost the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things -- and the things that are not-- to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God-- that is, our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord."
1Cor 1:27-31

I can testify that I know Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, that I know He lives, and that He sacrificed Himself for us to pay a debt that was not His, that we could not pay ourselves. The Saviour of those that will accept Him as such. I also know that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ continue to give guidance to us through revelation to living prophets, and that Jesus Christ will return again. These words I leave with you humbly, in the name of our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Very interesting and important comment. Should be used largely in the public communication in Europe.

Pekka Roto

I do not understand why some people hate us (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) so much. We allow you to worship God according to the dictates of your own conscience. Please allow us to do the same. If you happen to go into a "Christian" book store, you will find row upon row of "Anti" books, be it Anti-Mormon or any other group or so called "cult" they happen to despise. If you go into a "Latter-day Saint" bookstore you willl not find any kind of book that is "anti" ANYTHING. Only books that serve to uplift and strengthen one another, and help you to become more Christlike. If you are "Christian", please try to show it by loving one another as Christ instructed us to do. If you are convinced that we are wrong you are entitled to that opinion. If "Mormonism" is wrong, then leave it alone, it will eventually come to naught. But....if it be of God you cannot overthrow it. Do you want to risk being found fighting against the very God you claim to worship?
You say that we cannot use the word "Christian" to define ourselves. Who gave you the authority to re-define what the word "Christian" means? The last time I checked the dictionary it defined "Christian" as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. Just because your definition differs does not allow you to redefine the word for everyone.
Christ said: "As I have loved you...love one another" If Christ were to come back tomorrow would he approve of the hatred and bigotry that is being shown to other beliefs and churches? Let us all strive to respect one another and allow each other to believe as we wish. Judge us by our fruits. Some of the posts here have been so bold as to call us "Satanic" and that we are all going to hell. Can an evil tree bring forth good fruit? Satan CANNOT and DOES NOT encourage anyone to DO GOOD.
Let us all be tolerant and repectful of each other, for that is what Jesus Christ expects us to do.

Protestant:

I have enjoyed the conversation as well. I'm sorry you feel we can not both be called Christian. I feel we have much more in common that defines us as Christian brothers than you feel separates us from what I have read of your posting. I hope your search for truth and enlightenment will continue as I know mine will.

Here is a site with important references for people interested in knowing the truth about the LDS church.

http://www.utlm.org/

TO JUST LISTENING
The real question does not lie in the title of being called or not called a Christian.
What we need to observe is a person striving to live the Principals that Christ taught. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Obedience to the commandments of God, Love of God and neighbor, Humility, Forgiveness, Charity, Repentance, Integrity, Serving our fellow man... I think we all agree these are the principals Christ taught & lived. A person may accomplish this in any religion or even with no formal religion if it is truly the desire of his heart. If an individual studies the Scriptures their chances of achieving this objective are increased. If they pray daily with true intent they are increased even more. If they spend time weekly in church focusing on these Principals their chances are increased more. In every endeavor there is always a Good, Better & Best way of succeeding. I have found that the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints has helped me to keep focused on this objective. I am inspired by the wonderful examples of many members who are continuously demonstrating genuine love and service. I have the opportunity to continuously readjust my course as I learn,repent & grow. If you want to see for yourself what Mormons believe you should take advantage of the rare opportunity to watch leaders share their feelings at the funeral of our much loved Church President Gordon B. Hinckley (97 years old) who died this week. It will be televised via satellite in 69 languages to over 6,000 Church buildings globally. Brigham Young University’s BYU Television will also broadcast the funeral internationally so it is acessable on your computer. Although this is primarily for the benefit of members anyone could attend or watch. I understand the life of President Hinckley will be broadcast between the funeral and the Grave side services. The funeral is at 1pm mountain time. This would allow you to see for yourself what Mormons believe and what they are striving to accomplish. Good luck, Muzzie

I was on the road to personal destruction with my drinking-and I did smoke a pack a a half of cigarettes a day. When I learned of the LDS(Mormon)Church I was taught basic principles of not only good health but also about God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Ghost being 3 different indentities. The Book of Mormon as a sacred work as a second witness of Christ adjoining the Bible as the first-Joseph Smith was a prophet-just as those that have followed his leadership have been -each for a specific purpose.
I am happy-Ihave raised my children to be happy to be members of the restored Church of Jesus Christ. The love and fellowship we share with members of this great Church is manifast by the Love of God for each of His children-I am thankful those two Elders Smith and Barney that came into my life at a time that was crucial in my life........a defining moment indeed.

Thank you Micheal for " Are Mormons Christians?".

You seem to have correctly stated the feelings and beliefs of the members of The Church of Jesus Chirst of Latter Day Saints.

Thank you Micheal for " Are Mormons Christians?".

You seem to have correctly stated the feelings and beliefs of the members of The Church of Jesus Chirst of Latter Day Saints.

Steve:

This has been a very interesting discussion and I've enjoyed it immensely. However, it has to come to a conclusion at some point or we just end up repeating ourselves, and I think I will end on the note that Mormons and Christians share many common theological points, but they also differ greatly in regard to other matters, such as the nature of mankind, salvation, the nature of God, etc. We can say that both have points in common, but diverge to the point that they cannot both be labeled as Christian and have the term retain meaning. I would liken doing so to holding an apple in your hand and deciding to rename it an orange just because both apples and oranges are fruit. I respect your right to believe what you will and appreciate your willingness to have this intelligent discussion with me and others here.

As a converted member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, it never ceases to amaze me that 'everyone else' thinks they know more about the Church than actual members of the Church. Please don't tell me what I am or am not! And, don't tell me what I believe. I (and my faithful member friends) know exactly what we believe! I AM a Christian. Mormons ARE Christians...(I didn't say we are perfect, that's not the issue). If you want to know the truth about the CHURCH, visit: www.mormons.org

Protestant, Your quote...

"It is wise for people to follow the rules set forth in the Bible; I believe that they were intended to help people live better, more productive, faith-filled lives. However, one must also acknowledge that the other major purpose the law served was to prove to people that they could not fulfill every requirement and thus not be perfect. It pleases God when we do our best to keep His commandments, since it usually means we are on a better and less sin-filled path in life, and He wants only the best for us and from us. However, I do not believe that following God's commandments will save me, but rather knowing that I cannot follow them perfectly, admitting my weakness, and inviting Christ into my life will provide me with grace that is more than sufficient for my salvation. The line between works and grace is a fine one to walk, and it is very easy to come down on one side or the other without even realizing you've slipped."

I agree with this except the part about following God commandments will not save you. I believe the salvation comes as a gift to every human being because of the death and resurrection of Jesus.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

I agree with this except the the part about following God commandments will not save you. I believe the salvation comes as a gift to every human being because of the death and resurrection of Jesus.

We look at salvation differently as well, immortality is the freely given gift, or the reuniting of the spirit with the body in immortal glory. But Eternal Life or Exaltation in the Lords presence (the kind of life he lives) must be because of your merits and because of the Saviors Atonement, this gives you the opportunity to repent and improve. How much we improve our imperfect lives here on earth is not nearly as important as our attitudes and characteristics we have developed.

As a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I am deeply troubled by one poster's insistence that Mormons do not worship Jesus Christ. I worship Christ. Furthermore, I believe that most Latter-day Saints do also; in complete accordance with our doctrine that recognizes the divinity of Jesus Christ, who is God. The Book of Mormon teaches "And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out." 2 Nephi 25:29
In a 1984 Christmas Devotional our beloved prophet, President Gordon B. Hinckley, said "A life of service is a gift to God and the only way to truly worship Jesus Christ." May we follow the prophet by learning to worship as truly as he did.

Simply put, There is only one Christ.
The term Christian is a specific and unique title, the origin of which was given specifically to the follower of Jesus of Nazareth.

Because the LDS church teaches of another Jesus (not the Biblical Jesus) the LDS church can not use the term Christian in regards to their teachings in sincerity.

I would point out that in the year 2000, late President of the LDS church Gordon Hinckley highlighted this very point of (another Jesus) in a new dispensation.

Bevan.

Steve:

"I believe this in a more all inclusive way, he has provided the way for us to become perfected beings. This is to his glory not mine. He wants all of his children to enjoy the kind of life he lives."

I believe that human beings were created unique so as to be in relationship with one another and with God, but I do not believe that we can become perfect. The only thing perfect about us is our salvation. Christians do not believe in a pre-existence or afterlife in the same way that Mormons do, such that this life is a sort of proving ground where we are expected to gain experience for our pre-mortal souls in mortal bodies. Heaven for us does not constitute a state of exalted humanity, but rather eternal communion with God, never to be separated from his presence and love.

Regarding the verses you quoted, people often look to the book of James when speaking of the relationship of works to faith. "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:26) and whatnot. Good works should be an outward expression of a healthy faith, just as good fruit is born of a healthy tree. Good works should serve to glorify God and demonstrate compassion for our neighbors and the world at large. In this regard, many holier-than-thou Christians could learn a lot from LDS church members, since they are active in a lot of nitty gritty service and humanitarian aid projects. For example, my town experienced record flooding this past December and many people suffered great losses as a result. The local LDS church was one of the first organizations to show up in our waterlogged neighborhood with cleaning supplies and offers of help (they even made it in before FEMA or the insurance adjustors did). Kudos and blessings to the folks who braved the weather and muck and demonstrated their faith in a tangible and meaningful way.

It is wise for people to follow the rules set forth in the Bible; I believe that they were intended to help people live better, more productive, faith-filled lives. However, one must also acknowledge that the other major purpose the law served was to prove to people that they could not fulfill every requirement and thus not be perfect. It pleases God when we do our best to keep His commandments, since it usually means we are on a better and less sin-filled path in life, and He wants only the best for us and from us. However, I do not believe that following God's commandments will save me, but rather knowing that I cannot follow them perfectly, admitting my weakness, and inviting Christ into my life will provide me with grace that is more than sufficient for my salvation. The line between works and grace is a fine one to walk, and it is very easy to come down on one side or the other without even realizing you've slipped.

As far as I know Mitt Romney is not the official spokesperson of ANY religious sect. Hopefully he won't become anything official on a national scale. Everyone is talking about his chosen faith. Who cares? The guy said he wants to "double Guantanamo." Double up the the torture. Who cares what religion he is, he obviously isn't following a Christian line of thought there.

This was a well-spoken article. It acknowledges the differences and similarities between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and Nicene Christianity.

BTW - Wasn't Nicene Christianity established by the hand of a king trying to gain political power? Weren't the books chosen for the Nicene Bible determined under those circumstances? Are we to believe that there is no further truth written by anyone on the planet in regard to Christ's ministry? Only the books selected by the Council of Nicaea could possibly hold any truth about God? They were ordered to do so by a king seeking to expand his rule. Could there possibly be ANY political influence on the selection of canonical scripture?

Wow! That was an extremely well written (and easy to understand) article - Congrats!

I was particularly touched by the JFK quote. I am embarrassed to admit I had not previously known that such an event or speech took place. However, it is a solemn and refreshing reminder of just how wonderful and blessed our Nation of Diversity and Religious Differences truly is. Thank you :-)

Wow! That was an extremely well written (and easy to understand) article - Congrats!

I was particularly touch by the JFK quote. I am embarrassed to admit I had not previously known that such an event or speech took place. However, it is a solemn and refreshing reminder of just how wonderful and blessed our Nation of Diversity and Religious Differences truly is. Thank you :-)

Wow weee! I never post but this has been fun, hearing people talk about there faith is pretty cool, it all ways seem like such a taboo to talk about in real life.

As for the post question...I don't know enough about Mormons to say they aren't and I don't know enough about Christains to say that they aren't either.

Coming from someone who is not really educated any religion... It really all sounds like your saying the same things.

Thanks to everybody who has put some time and thought into their posts. It has really got me interested in a topic I usually avoid. I have dusted off my old Bible, bought "The path to Tranquility" by the Dalai Lama, and ordered a Book of Mormon.

The other reason I decided to post now is that I heard the Mormon President died...Sorry to hear it Alex, LDS mom and all the other mormons who have posted.

Protestant, I quote you...

"I do my best to teach my children to be honest, kind, helpful, respectful, patient, loving people. Yes, we are taught to follow Christ, to walk with him through our lives, and apply the principles he taught to our dealings with others in all ways possible. The difference between us is that you believe by becoming Christlike, you become Christ, meaning a god, a divine and perfect being; I believe that in becoming Christlike, I am forced to acknowledge my faults and my complete need for the strength, comfort and salvation of Jesus. Believing that I could somehow become a god equal to Christ, who was the only begotten of God and whose death paid the price for the sum of humanity's sins, strikes me as incredibly arrogant and ungrateful."

This is not correct, yes, we do believe we have the ability to become Christlike and no, we do not become Christ. Christ is our Savior. I believe this in a more all inclusive way, he has provided the way for us to become perfected beings. This is to his glory not mine. He wants all of his children to enjoy the kind of life he lives. I say children from the since we are born again in Christ in a covenant to remember him and keep his commandments. I would consider it arrogant and ungrateful if he were to show me the possibilities I have and then I berate or be-little them as something I'm not capable of.

Again I quote you:

"Amazing grace is realizing that we are imperfect and must wholly rely on God and not on ourselves. I believe that it pleases God when we try to follow His Son to the best of our abilities, just as it pleases us when our own children follow directions and behave in an honorable way, but He does not love us less or take back our salvation if we fall short of the mark. In fact, He knows we will fall short of the mark of perfection; that's what it means to be human. Christians do not believe we can save ourselves through any merits or good works; we believe that God through his infinite mercy provided for our salvation through the sacrifice of His Son. Gifts cannot be bought by the recipient, only accepted, and it requires us to humble our opinions of ourselves to recognize that the gift is available and that we are in desperate need of it."

I believe most of what you say here is correct, but let me add; yes, we all fall short of the mark of perfection, that's why he told us to repent of our short commings and be perfected in him. Through his Atonement and our best efforts we can overcome our weakness. Repentance is an on going process and it is offered to us because of the Saviors Atonement. Let me ask what these two Scriptures mean to you?

(New Testament | Matthew 7:18 - 24)
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

(New Testament | James 1:22 - 25)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Alex:

"To us, we don't lose our salvation by falling short of the mark, but we do lose our salvation by not remaining in the covenant and continuing faithful. It is our faithfulness to our covenants that he requires of us, not perfection. Mercifully, part of staying in the covenant involves repentance when we have sinned. It is the staying and enduring that keeps us within His arms of mercy. As long as we keep safely within the covenant with childlike trust to our Father, we can eventually become perfected and become like Him."

This to me is an affirmation of the doctrine that works are necessary for salvation, that grace is sufficient only when we have done all that we can humanly do. This conflicts with both my scholarly and personal understanding of Biblical Christianity. Our imperfection makes it unavoidable that we will mess up and fail to please God by our thoughts, words and deeds. When we do good works, we should do it for the glory and pleasure of God, not to earn our salvation, since there really is nothing we can do to earn it. I should also clarify that I'm not advocating running around committing every conceivable sin just because you know you can be forgiven. Repentance and a sincere heart are essential to our understanding of the nature of God, ourselves, and our relationship to Him, but again, I think it is fallacious to insert works into the salvation equation.

To LDS Mom: It would seem that what you are really saying is that Mormons are the only "true Christians." And that the fact that there are so many differences between Mormons and other Christians would indicate that only one group can be real Christians. As a member of the LDS faith, I would refute that. We may have many different beliefs from mainstream Christianity, but just because other Christians do not believe in the same things the Mormons do, does not mean they are not Christian. It simply means that their understanding of Jesus Christ and his teachings are not the same as the Mormons. The mark of a true Christian is not his or her religion, but his or her soul. Does she follow Jesus Christ's example and teachings? Just believing in Jesus is not enough, you must seek to follow in His footsteps.

One other thing LDS mom, some of your explanations of Mormon beliefs are not quite correct. For instance, Jesus Christ was a God in the flesh. Although he is our older brother, he was also 50% an imortal being. He had no earthly Father; His Father was God. Thus, even as a 50% mortal, who was capable of dying, He was still a God. Everything we do in the Church is in His name and through His will. The Priesthood is His Priesthood. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is exactly that--His Church. It is Jesus' kingdom on the earth today. He organized it, he created it, he taught the principles that are taught in it. He formed it among the Jews during his earthly ministry. He taught it to Adam almost six thousand years ago. The God of the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Book of Mormon peoples, as well as the rest of the world and us, is Jesus Christ. He is our God, we are His Saints. That makes faithful members of the Mormon faith Christian. But it does not mean that others who are not of the Mormon faith are not Christian. Their Christianity depends upon whether they personally follow Jesus.

The article above is very well written

But

I distinctly recall one of the 15 Brethren of the First Presidency or The Twelve clearly making a distinction between two doctrines:

1. The Holy Trinity

and

2. The "mystery of the Trinity."

According to him, the Holy Trinity we believe in while "the mystery of the Trinity" we do not.

I believe it was Elder Ballard of whom I provide a substance quote.

Trinity means three in unity. We should be forgiven for misunderstanding this term for two reasons:

1. It is not a biblical term.

and

2. In Christian theology the term "Trinity" arose in the context of the non-bibilcal "mystery" of the Trinity.

However, if we should be forgiven our misunderstanding, our critics should likewise be forgiven their error in calling us non-Christians for when we mistakenly say we don't believe in the Holy Trinity, we are literally misinforming them that we don't believe Jesus is Holy and in unity with his Father.

Check this out with the First Presidency or The Twelve and this be verified.

As a Latter-day Saint Christian I know Jesus is part of a Holy Trinity - the Holy Trinity - and not part of some "mystery of the Trinity."

The article above is very well written

But

I distinctly recall one of the 15 Brethren of the First Presidency or The Twelve clearly making a distinction between two doctrines:

1. The Holy Trinity

and

2. The "mystery of the Trinity."

According to him, the Holy Trinity we believe in while "the mystery of the Trinity" we do not.

I believe it was Elder Ballard of whom I provide a substance quote.

Trinity means three in unity. We should be forgiven for misunderstanding this term for two reasons:

1. It is not a biblical term.

and

2. In Christian theology the term "Trinity" arose in the context of the non-bibilcal "mystery" of the Trinity.

However, if we should be forgiven our misunderstanding, our critics should likewise be forgiven their error in calling us non-Christians for when we mistakenly say we don't believe in the Holy Trinity, we are literally misinforming them that we don't believe Jesus is Holy and in unity with his Father.

Check this out with the First Presidency or The Twelve and this be verified.

As a Latter-day Saint Christian I know Jesus is part of a Holy Trinity - the Holy Trinity - and not part of some "mystery of the Trinity."

This is a very good article. As a member of the LDS church I have been offended by the exclusive character of some Christians who think they have a monopoly on biblical or Christian religious interpretation. There are some who will narrow the definition of what it means to be Christian that it only fits their particular beliefs. Do all so called orthodox Christians really believe in the trinitarian view? If you ask many of them they will say that the trinitarian view of their churches does not represent their own belief about god. Then why fault the LDS church for openly espousing biblically supported non trinitarian views when many orthodox Christians do not really accept these views. Joseph Smiths tolerant and inclusive attitude towards other faiths is the best way. We respect the beliefs of others and hope that others would reciprocate the privilege. The LDS Church does not have a monopoly on truth but only seeks to invite others to investigate those things that we believe were communicated to us by God in these days. This is indeed good news to all who have an open enough mind to investigate. Asking a mormon what mormons believe is really a sensible policy. Thank your for your excellent article.

Our religious freedom has been taken away from us, if you think of the inability to have prayer in schools and other public situations. What happen to the statement? Let them worship, how, where or what they may.

Our religious freedom has been taken away from us if you think of the inability to have prayer in schools and other public situations. What happen to the statement? Let them worship how, where or what they may.

Our religious freedom has been taken away from us if you think of the inability to have prayer in schools and other public situations. What happen to the statement? Let them worship how, where or what they may.

Protestant:

"Amazing grace is realizing that we are imperfect and must wholly rely on God and not on ourselves. I believe that it pleases God when we try to follow His Son to the best of our abilities, just as it pleases us when our own children follow directions and behave in an honorable way, but He does not love us less or take back our salvation if we fall short of the mark. "

Amen and so it is. Our Father in Heaven loves all of his children and always will. To us, we don't lose our salvation by falling short of the mark, but we do lose our salvation by not remaining in the covenant and continuing faithful. It is our faithfulness to our covenants that he requires of us, not perfection. Mercifully, part of staying in the covenant involves repentance when we have sinned. It is the staying and enduring that keeps us within His arms of mercy. As long as we keep safely within the covenant with childlike trust to our Father, we can eventually become perfected and become like Him. Nothing you have said in this statement conflicts with anything I have said.

Alex:

"We agree that we will have no other God besides Him. Our Father in Heaven will always be the one we worship."

Simply put, this says to me that you acknowledge the existence of other Gods in other places but chose to worship only the one we know as God the Father who presides over our world. Is this incorrect?

"Do you teach your children NOT to be like Jesus? Why would anyone try to be like Jesus if there were no way we could actually become like Him? I would submit that anything less than becoming like Jesus is to be damned. Through the grace and mercy of Christ, I, a fallen man, can become a new creature, or in other words, I can be like Jesus (who became a God on His own merits. We can't on our own merits.) If I am like Jesus and Jesus is a God, then I become a god too. That, my friend IS Christian doctrine it has been restored by revelation. That is the miracle of amazing grace."

And Steve:

"Why would Christ tell us to be perfect if perfection were not obtainable? Granted we all fall short of this but he will help us obtain it. This life is but a short but important moment in our development....I don't put myself or others in the same category as these perfect beings (God the Father and Jesus Christ)but what if they were to tell you you had the divine potential to become as they are...This is exactly what the Bible teaches us. Open you mind to more God has revealed or he will take away from you that which he has given you."

I do my best to teach my children to be honest, kind, helpful, respectful, patient, loving people. Yes, we are taught to follow Christ, to walk with him through our lives, and apply the principles he taught to our dealings with others in all ways possible. The difference between us is that you believe by becoming Christlike, you become Christ, meaning a god, a divine and perfect being; I believe that in becoming Christlike, I am forced to acknowledge my faults and my complete need for the strength, comfort and salvation of Jesus. Believing that I could somehow become a god equal to Christ, who was the only begotten of God and whose death paid the price for the sum of humanity's sins, strikes me as incredibly arrogant and ungrateful.

Amazing grace is realizing that we are imperfect and must wholly rely on God and not on ourselves. I believe that it pleases God when we try to follow His Son to the best of our abilities, just as it pleases us when our own children follow directions and behave in an honorable way, but He does not love us less or take back our salvation if we fall short of the mark. In fact, He knows we will fall short of the mark of perfection; that's what it means to be human. Christians do not believe we can save ourselves through any merits or good works; we believe that God through his infinite mercy provided for our salvation through the sacrifice of His Son. Gifts cannot be bought by the recipient, only accepted, and it requires us to humble our opinions of ourselves to recognize that the gift is available and that we are in desperate need of it.

This is the first article that I've ever read that enlightened me further about my Mormon faith. Indeed, the words of Pres. Kennedy ringed to every corner of the globe displaying its tremendous effect not only to all Americans but to all the people of the world.

Today, I can declare that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true! The Book of Mormon is a true word of God that contains the fullness of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. I can even shout on top of the mountain that I belong to this true living Church of God.

This article has inspired me a lot!

descansa en peace ya era el tienpo de ke este mejor ke no sostros ya iso muycho por aki ahora ke toka por aya a aya vemos ke ace pssssss?????????

Hi to all,
wow what a long thread! Amazing stuff. I've been a converted member since 1995. Joining the church in my teen years. I have never looked back! Yes perhaps we have differences in our faiths from others, you may not agree with our doctrines or beliefs, that's fine. I can live with that, i can also live with the fact that people may say i am not a christian just because i am lds. Infact i regard myself as a christian, i try as i might everyday, with my little family to live a christlike life as best as we can. It is through my faith, my heart and soul that i believe that God has a plan for us, it was Jesus who paid the way for me and you and provided for us a way to return to our father in heaven. It is jesus who i bow and pray to and it is him whom i and other LDS worshipers worship every sunday.
Our chapel doors are always open. This church will i guess always be ridiculed some way or the other, and who is to say that we are or not christian? You? what makes you a Christian? It is always easier to point the finger, to point out some wrong doing of another.
To close i would like to close with the 13th Article of Faith:
We believe in being hosenst, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul - We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anthing virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
It is with my hope that you may all seek for good things and find peace and happiness wherever you are. I also invite all those who ridicule our faith, to come to any of our sacrament meetings and atttend a class or two. Don't be scared, we don't bite!!

Great Article!

Finally someone who gets it.

I'm surprised by those who try to employ the "slippery slope" fallacy in their assertions that if Mormons are allowed to call themselves Christians soon everyone will be doing it (Jews, Muslims, and anyone who believes Jesus existed and was a good person).

Latter Day Saints believe Jesus Christ is their savior and the only means by which they can be saved from being eternally separated from God the Father. If the Jews believed that, they wouldn't be Jews, they'd be Christians. If the Muslims believed that, they'd be Christians as well.

Michael Otterson,

Thank you for your article. Thank you for your clarification. Thank you for taking the time to help us have a better understanding of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Wow! For those of you who have taken some time to read the article written by Michael Otterson as well as the comments listed so far, can you see a difference in the posts that have been written?

For those of you who are willing to take the time to learn about Mormons you will see something unique and special. Spend 15 minutes on www.mormon.org. You will be greatly blessed by doing so.

Thank you for this article, it is both accurate and fair. I am LDS (or Mormon) and I am deeply wounded when anyone insinuates that I am not Christian. I do realize, however, that we are different and that is what attracted me to this church when I was in my early twenties and caused me to join despite the persecution I recieved, even from my own family.

LDS Mom:

I need to apologize to you. In some previous posts, you posted some things that didn't quite settle with me. Perhaps it was that they were couched in a way that put a wedge between the Savior and His church, in my view. I think I may have misunderstood your points, but in your last post, you were much more clear. I am now satisfied that you are who you say you are, and I am sorry to have doubted you. I agree with your last post wholeheartedly. All the best to you.

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I know Jesus Christ is my personal Savior and the Savior of the world and all people. I try to live as He did. I am a Christian.

I am also a woman and have never felt subservient to any male in the Church. If any man tried to tell me to do something because he told me to and he is a man and I am a woman and must submit to his will, then I would know he is living in direct discord with the teachings of the Church. He would not have my respect. I am married and I love my husband. He and I are equals. I am intelligent and have been formally educated and will continue my formal education throughout my entire life. I will support and encourage my daughter and any other woman I know to build her mind and her spirit through education, experience, and example. I am proud to be a member of the Relief Society, a group that encourages and supports women in becoming the best they can. It brings relief to the poor, the wounded, the sick, the abused, the oppressed and the depressed.

Protestant

Just a few word for you and your friends to think about. Why would Christ tell us to be perfect if perfection were not obtainable? Granted we all fall short of this but he will help us obtain it. This life is but a short but important moment in our development. Do you believe that Christ is the God is this earth? I do! I believe he is also the God of the old testiment. I believe he created this earth and many others. I don't put myself or others in the same catagory as these perfect beings (God the Father and Jesus Christ)but what if they were to tell you you had the divine potential to become as they are...This is exactly what the Bible teaches us. Open you mind to more God has revealed or he will take away from you that which he has given you.

Just want to clarify one thing:
1. I am LDS and a mom of my beautiful children!
2. I continue to believe and I do believe that most LDS would conclude that the LDS church does not fit into the mainstream model of Christianity. We are not and can not fit into this model.... good grief, why did Joseph Smith have his glorious vision if just to be creating another christian church when there were so many out there already? I stand by my affirmation that Mormons are not "Christians" in the sense that the rest of the world views Christians.

The Mormon Church is a restored church - it's members and leaders proclaim that it is the *only* true church and that all other Christian churches are only apostate versions of the true church. No offense intended to non - mormons reading these comments. You are certainly welcome to join us in our persuit of truth! :)

Why it's ridiculous to even to consider that we can fit in with the Christian world for our doctrines are so radically different from Chrisitan doctrines!

This is going to be my last post , but I wanted to share the *core* differences between the LDS faith and the Christian faith:

**The Christian world believes in the trinity. Mormonism absolutely refutes that! God is a person, a God who was once a man and became the God of our world. The Christians have de-humanized God and made him to be a personage without passions and body. That is blasphemy! For God is as man is now, once a man with body parts and passions who thru time became the God we know worship! Mormons should not be ashamed or try to skirt around these key differences that truly do define our faith.

****Jesus Christ is not "God come down as man" as the Christian world believes..... Jesus Christ was chosen from the foundation of the world to become the Savior of the world. He is our brother, and not our God. We reverence Him and love him , but certainly do not worship Him, for he worships Elohim as we do. We want to become like him, but we do not worship him.

***The Holy Ghost is a person of spirit. We are given the companionship of the Holy Ghost when we are baptized into the only true church. The christians believe not in the Holy Ghost as we do , but believe in the Holy Spirit dwelling within the Christian after he accepts Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost is how we as LDS determine "truth"... thru the feelings, whisperings and impressions of the HOly Ghost we can determine truth. As mormons we rely heavily on our feelings, or the Holy Ghost to determine what course of actions we should take in our life on a day to day basis. Christians do not rely on their feelings but on the Bible as the ultimate source of truth. We as LDS refute that.

***Salvation for the mormon is not a one time event We are not saved by grace - but thru grace after all we can do. Salvation by grace only covers salvation of physical death. The christians do not embrace nor believe in exlatation and eternal progression. We believe that Salvation fro sin or spiritual death is achieved thru obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel and enduring to the end. It is false to assume that grace alone saves us for revealed teachings show us differently!

***Heaven for Mormons is so much more than what the Christians declare it to be -- for we know that we will become heirs of all God has for us, joint heirs with Christ and destined to become gods. As a mormon woman I have spent the last 19 yrs of my life striving dillegently to become all God wants me to become... and yes it is hard work! Mormon women all over the world take our duties very seriously, and we seek to become perfect even as Christ is perfect. We are required to work out our salvation. Much is required of us. We believe that when we are exalted, we will live in family relationships. Meaning I will be married to my husband & with him If I am valiant, become a god to rule and reign forever with my husband. That is uniquely different from the christian world view! For mormons believe in eternal progression -- we are not just going to sit in heaven and have a lovely time with Jesus! There is much more.....

****Modern Day Revelation -- as Mormons we believe God continues to reveal His will to us thru our leaders. We are to sustain them and obey them and trust their guidance for they speak for the Lord himself. Mormons are anxiously awaiting the appointing of a new prophet & pres. of the church with the passing of Pres. Hinckley. God continues to speak to his children. The words of the prophets take precedence over the words found in the standard works. General Conference talks are the inspired word of God and 'fresh off the press" sort of speak from God himself! The Christians believe that God has finished speaking and the Bible is it.

****Christians believe the Bible to be infalliable. Mormons do not agree. The bible is only correct when translated correctly. If this was not so, Joseph Smith would have not gone out of his way to write his inspired version. The Book of mormon is the most correct of all books. The bible is only correct *if* it is translated correctly. So different from the Christian belief that truth is found solely in the Bible

I am not ashamed of my beliefs. These are core beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. These I believe are the core differences in our doctrines and the doctrines of the Christian world.

I am going to let this go now. But as a member of the LDS church, I believe it does us no good to pretend we are something we simply are not! Our brand of Christianity is very unique and in no way are we like the rest of the Christian world. The christians are correct when they say we are not like them -- NO we are not, nor are the doctrines!

Christians are invited to join the cause of the kingdom by coming to know this for themselves thru prayer and the Holy Ghost's whispering to them that it is true. I am not ashamed to declare these things.

To all the haters out there. This is how I look at it, If the mormons are wrong,then you have nothing to loose,but if the mormons are right,then you have everything to loose. The bible teaches us that the mysteries of God is given to some,but to others it is not given. Why do you think that is so? could it be because the mysteries of God are only given to those who are ready to hear it and most of all understand it?. We believe that writings of the prophets contained in the bible are true,but how ever the critics forgot about somting that is also predicted in the bible called "The apostacy". During the apostacy many of the writings and teachings of the original prophets where changed and replaced by the teachings of men.Have you ever wondered why there are so many religions in the world today.And yet the bible teaches us in the book of james that their should only be one Lord,one faith and one baptism?.This is why the boy joseph inquired of the Lord.He did exactley what james said for him to do,if joseph would only knew that when he came out of that sacred grove,that his life would never be the same again.And the interesting thing about this whole experience that the boy joseph had was.All he had to do to make his life livable again was to deny that he ever saw God the Father and the son.The Prophet Joseph Smith new that he could never deny what he saw that day in the grove of trees.The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a "restored" gospel.The mormon faith is that gospel that the Savior organized when he walked the earth thousands of years ago.I so testify in the name of Jesus Christ Amen.

All of these nasty comments in regard to members of the LDS church remind me of something the Savior said in the Bible. "Why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?" I can't believe the hypocrisy of some people who profess to be christians while at the same time demeaning their fellow human beings simply because they have a different set of beliefs than they do. Personally, I would hate to have to stand before my Savior at the last day if I knew I had spent my time trying to hurt some of His children. Christ said, "By their fruits, ye shall know them." What are your fruits?

After reading the article, I decided to just glance at the comments - something I rarely do. I am always astounded at the absolute hypocrisy of those who profess to be christians while at the same time demeaning their fellow man because of apparent differences of religious opinion. I for one choose to believe that Jesus Christ loved all mankind and that he died for the sins of all men/women. My advice to those of you who haven't got anything better to do than to sit around and blog nasty remarks about other people, is to spend a little more time in your bible and find out exactly what the Savior was like and try to find a way to emulate Him. Personally, I'd be worried about standing in front of Him at the last day after spending all of my time trying to hurt other people. If you think you'll be justified for your actions - like I said - spend some time in your bible. "Why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?" Just saying....

Protestant:

"The Bible teaches that God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and end, the first and last, that there were no other gods besides him save false and unliving idols worshipped by foolish people. "

That's right. I agree. We agree that we will have no other God besides Him. Our Father in Heaven will always be the one we worship.

"Christians do not believe that anything compares with God; there is none like Him, never was, and never will be. "

Do you teach your children NOT to be like Jesus? Why would anyone try to be like Jesus if there were no way we could actually become like Him? I would submit that anything less than becoming like Jesus is to be damned. Through the grace and mercy of Christ, I, a fallen man, can become a new creature, or in other words, I can be like Jesus (who became a God on His own merits. We can't on our own merits.) If I am like Jesus and Jesus is a God, then I become a god too. That, my friend IS Christian doctrine it has been restored by revelation. That is the miracle of amazing grace. Those who are thus saved, will praise His holy name forever and ever, and they will have very good reason to.

At a time when the understanding of the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is so crucial to the unity in our nation and the world(though all may not realize it), I am grateful for men like Brother Otterson who can be articulate and forthright in defining for the world where they should start in their introduction to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are so blessed to be able to share with the world the eternal truths of the Savior's words and love. I know it is your job, Bro. Otterson, but thank you for doing it so eloquently and genuinely.

Do not forget that LDS members are also taught that God was once a man, a mortal being who was perfected and exalted in immortality and because of that, has the priviledge and honor or being OUR God. "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become." If God were originally an ordinary mortal being, it would stand to reason that there were numerous others like him who also traveled the path to perfection, exaltation and eternal life. The Bible teaches that God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and end, the first and last, that there were no other gods besides him save false and unliving idols worshipped by foolish people. Christians do not believe that anything compares with God; there is none like Him, never was, and never will be.

Again, if you profess to be Christian and take that to mean simply that you follow Christ, that would include all manner of people who botch the definition of the word. Some think that being Christian simply means you are a good person, that you go to church sometimes, or that you were once baptised. The mainstream Christian and LDS churches both declare themselves to be Christian, but the word has two separate and distinct meanings depending on the group to whom it is applied.

I just need to clear something up. I posted a response to LDS Mom timestamped as January 28, 2008 10:54 AM. I put who I was addressing in the post rather than what my name is. As it is, it looks like LDS Mom is posting and responding to herself. Sorry for the mixup.

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I do believe that I am a Christian, and we do belief in the trinity of the Father, the son and the Holy ghost. I belief the Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and he did restore the true church, and all others are by Gods words an abomination.

I am a member of the church in Chelsea Michigan, we are planning a missionary fireside meeting on this topic. Can I get permission to run this article as part of an advertisement in our local papers for this event?

To Nicole,
I believe most of what you wrote. Guess what, I am Mormon. It looks like we have a lot in common.
To Anonymous
It always comfortable to have an "X" of any faith come in with "anti-whatever-faith-I was" hate talk. It makes us feel better about what we believe. It's a cheap shot. Interestingly, all faith have this same situation. I suggest you listen or read the words of those who have left your faith.I am pretty sure you would be able to correct quite a bit of their misconceptions and false rhetoric. It would probably frustrate you that you can not correct the harm they have done in the wake of their ignorance. LDS members have been cautioned against trying to correct every misconception out there as it usually creates more contention (Satan's way, which is not very Christian in itself. The LDS church is open to scrutiny, both good and bad. All churches have history, both good and bad. Instead of listening to those who are making money on whatever faith is on the "list" of the week. Find out for yourself. Read and study about the faith you are interested in, then use the time honored scripture from James 1:5 ad take it to the Lord. Then listen to the Holy Spirit who makes the answers plain to all man, if they just seek. The spirit of peace that comes from such a revelation is a much different spirit than that of contention, the spirit that you feel when reading the rhetoric of whosoever "ant-whatever-faith" writings.

Thank you, Brother Hancock.

Thank you for making this report available to the world..

I read and I cried, and have decided that this could be shared with non member friends who would not normally read any church pamphlets or other material,but would read this.

Once Again
Thank You

Thank you for making this report available to the world..

I read and I cried, and have decided that this could be shared with non member friends who would not normally read any church pamphlets or other material,but would read this.

Once Again
Thank You

28 January 2008
RE: "Are Mormons Christians?"
To Michael Otterson,
Thank you for your thoughtful and fair article on this topic.

It has been interesting and gratifying to me through the years to learn how the LDS Church has consistently taught its members to be tolerant. It isn't always automatically a part of every member's behavior. After all, the membership of the church is been drawn from the population of the nations, and converts sometimes bring with them prejudices and intolerant attitudes, which must be refined out of their hearts and minds. The LDS church teaches tolerance and respect for others and their opinions.

As a youth -- and I am over 60 now -- I was very impressed that Joseph Smith taught Latter-Day Saints to not "contend" against other churches or religions, but just tell their own story and let people decide for themselves through study and personal prayer and reflection. And he taught the people to recognize the contributions to the general good that has been made by individuals and organizations, and give credit to them and thanks to God for their part in preserving and promoting truth. As examples: the ancient Jewish scribes preserved many invaluable writings of their prophets; the age-old Catholic church preserved a large body of the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, and others, from which the world has knowledge of many of the words, actions and circumstances of the life of Jesus Christ; the Protestant reformers broke down many barriers of narrow prejudices and promoted the printing of the scriptures in many languages. Modern Latter-Day Saint leaders and writers frequently quote C. S. Lewis, Norman Vincent Peale and other non-LDS Christians and even non-Christians.

One thing that has appealed to me about my accepted faith through the years is the precept taught by Joseph Smith's successor, Brigham Young, that Latter-Day Saints should seek, recognize, welcome, and accept truth wherever it comes from, trusting that all truth will work together to enlighten people and to promote harmony and prosperity of society.

Of course there are things that should not be tolerated, such as dishonesty, enslavement and oppression of people, child or spouse abuse, intoxication and -- well, a long list of destructive practices. However, even in the battle against these things, as I see it, the LDS church advocates clear thinking, wisdom, fairness and justice with due process of just laws and with appropriate preventive and corrective action and education, administered with compassion for both victims and perpetrators.

It seems quite a "Christian" approach to me. It is a reflection of the LDS Church's teaching its members to be like Christ, emulating his love of people, truth, and of God who is his and our Father. If all Christians can do this while we are learning more about the details of Christ's life and the nature of the Godhead, etc., then in due time we will not only see and understand him perfectly, but we will be like him for we will have followed his example.

-- A Latter-Day Saint

There is much discussion these days about Jesus and Satan being brothers. We Mormons may be clouding the issue with our explanation of pre-mortal relationships. The approach, it seems to me, should be given in a plain all agree up; that is are Satan and Jesus related. My answer is simply that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. He was a mortal man. Satan, on the other hand, never recieved a body. Jesus and Satan are not brothers. Why must we enter a discussion about the relationsip between Jehovah and Satan? Keep it simple. Just answer their question.

Reading these comments I am amazed at the amount of meaness that is generated over a topic such as belief in Jesus Christ. I am amazed at the number of people that want to spend their time trying to prove all LDS beliefs wrong. Do you go from this web site to others disproving Hindu beliefs, Lutheran beliefs, Jehovahs witness beliefs etc.? Is that how you spend your time? I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yes, I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and in living prophets. I think my home reflects that and I hope my actions do too. I am also grateful for other good people in this country who try to make this country a decent place to live whatever their religion may be. I don't spend my day blogging trying to disprove every belief they may have. Whether the president is a Mormon or not, is not as important as if he has integrity, honesty and the ability to lead others to do good. There are many great people in this country in every religion. I think the purpose of this article was to allow people to see how Mormon's view themselves and their beliefs not to generate an all out fist fight over the term Christian. I am always interested to see others and how their beliefs are part of their lives. Why can't you do this with Mormons and leave it at that. Let's spend our time trying to promote good causes and not to try in disprove each other's religious convictions.

Well said!

I am still not convinced you are who you say you are. No matter. I will respond to a few points that I believe you don't understand.

"The Christian's world view is biblically based, the Mormon world view is based on modern revelation, and especially focused on the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. "

The biblical world view IS modern revelation. That is why if you really want to be correct, you would say that orthodox "Christianity" isn't biblically based, because they reject the basic premise of continuing revelation under which the books of the Bible were written to begin with.

"Without Joseph Smith there would be no unique teachings between mormonism and Christianity. "

Look, if the Father and the Son (i.e. the Lord Jesus Christ, Jehovah, Yahweh, Christ Jesus, etc.) revealed themselves to Joseph Smith in a glorious heavenly vision and if in succession the fulness of the Gospel has been revealed by the Lord Jesus Himself, then Mormonism IS Christianity. It is really quite simple.

"I think Joseph and Brigham would be rolling over in their graves if they believed that the Church they worked so hard to establish was just another Christian church. "

It is a good thing that they don't have to worry about that. If, in being called non-Christian, we are so called on account of doctrines and practices that we truly and unabashedly hold, then being called Christian from an orthodox Christian tradition is concerned is really a moot point.

However, we do not throw out fundamental, indispensible and essential truths. We claim that Jesus of Nazareth, as the Messiah and Savior of the World, without whom there is no salvation for anyone. When our teachings decry what we claim to be false doctrines and practices in other Christian denominations, we do not and indeed cannot throw out our rock. We never have and never will. For without Christ, we have nothing: no revelation, resurrection, justification, sanctification, no efficacy to ordinances and teachings, no celestial kingdom, no eternal families, no perfection etc. Joseph, Brigham, and every other President of the Church were built on the rock and they knew this.

"I grow so tired of fellow saints trying to give the world "milk" and hiding the "meat" for fear of what others may think.... let the world think what they think..... I believe that is what Brigham would tell us today! "

You don't get the deep doctrines by discarding the fundamentals. You can't have the fruits without the roots. The fundamentals are foundation pieces upon which deeper doctrines build. They aren't temporary placeholder doctrines that we give in public but deny in private. Personally, I love the meat of the Gospel and in my experience I get an endless supply of it. I love to read Brigham and Joseph too. They got meat based upon the same principles.

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I do believe that I am a Christian, and we do belief in the trinity of the Father, the son and the Holy ghost. I belief the Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and he did restore the true church, and all others are by Gods words an abomination.

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I do believe that I am a Christian, and we do belief in the trinity of the Father, the son and the Holy ghost. I belief the Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and he did restore the true church, and all others are by Gods words an abomination.

It's interesting...and distressing...how galvinizing this question seems to be. It seems to bring out the lack of Christianity in many people (Mormons and non-Mormons alike) professing to have been saved and become committed to the kinder nature of Christian theology. I think paraphrasing the biblical remarks of the member of the sanhedrin about the Master are probably appropriate here too. If Mormonism is true...no one will be able to stop it though many might try. If it is false...it will fall under it own weight regardless of how many might try to prop it up. Time and experience will be the ultimate judge. In the meantime, it seems Mormons and other Christians would do well to follow their Savior and work together for a more civil and compassionate world.

Christ taught that "ye shall know them by their fruits."

What are some of the fruits of the Church of Jesus Christ in these latter days?

* Longer life. Studies show that practicing Mormons are healthier and therefore live longer than the national average. In 1833 the Lord revealed to Joseph Smith the Word of Wisdom, which is the way to live in order to enjoy a long and healthy life.

* Those who are married in and attend the temple regularly have a divorce rate far below the national and world average.

* We achieve an educational level that is higher than the national average.

* Over 70,000 members volunteer at their own expense to serve for 18 to 24 months in humanitarian efforts, Church service assignments, and full-time missionary service throughout the world.

* We place strong emphasis on self-reliance and a solid work ethic. We encourage active involvement in our communities and in providing service to others. The Church continues to donate substantial money, goods, and services to humanitarian causes around the globe, including untold hours of labor donated by members to assist in disaster cleanup and relief.

Christ taught that "ye shall know them by their fruits."

What are some of the fruits of the Church of Jesus Christ in these latter days?

* Longer life. Studies show that practicing Mormons are healthier and therefore live longer than the national average. In 1833 the Lord revealed to Joseph Smith the Word of Wisdom, which is the way to live in order to enjoy a long and healthy life.

* Those who are married in and attend the temple regularly have a divorce rate far below the national and world average.

* We achieve an educational level that is higher than the national average.

* Over 70,000 members volunteer at their own expense to serve for 18 to 24 months in humanitarian efforts, Church service assignments, and full-time missionary service throughout the world.

* We place strong emphasis on self-reliance and a solid work ethic. We encourage active involvement in our communities and in providing service to others. The Church continues to donate substantial money, goods, and services to humanitarian causes around the globe, including untold hours of labor donated by members to assist in disaster cleanup and relief.

If you really want to know if Mormons are Christians, and if their claims are true, you can simply ask the one person who knows. That is ask your Father in Heaven the questions, He knows the truth, and if you ask in sincere faith with real intent He will make the truth known to you.
So, simply ask Him, in the name of Jesus Christ.

The Lost of one of the most beloved Prpphets has now returned home to his beloved wife,to carry foreworrd there Eternal union for time & ALL Eternaty, I had the B;essing of meeting with them both, and when HE took my hand I knrw with out any form of doubt HE was the choosen one of this the latter day, I recall meeting him x3, plus DavidOMcKay, then prophet who blessed our marraige for Eternaty I felt there inner Spirit beyond works that could ever be spoken in the fullness of time, I am at complete loss over his leaving this life, tio Enter the next life, at the right hand of "GOD" even so him, self the master of life its self.
I am so so so very distressed over this loss there be not one among you, that could EVER take the key of which the prophet himself held for time & ALL Eternality I am cut to my very being over his departing this Earthly life,whem God has called so we "MUST" accept in its full-ness the Prophet of this world and the world to follow in the Saviours Eternal name.

Senior Francis Douglas Holland.

All that I would ask of those who read this is that before you make any judgments that you study it out. Mormons are Christians, they profess the name of Christ, they are saved through him just as all Christians are. Those are the basic fundamentals of Christianity. Why is it that they are prosectuted so for their beliefs? What have they done to deserve so much critizium?

Thanks for that great article. As LDS members we are greatful this explanation.

I was raised in a protestant (Lutheran) church for most of my life. I studied religion as a major in college, exploring different facets of many world religions including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Native American traditions, and so on. I have always had a personal interest in the LDS church's teachings, so I have read a great deal about it, both from official church doctrine and publications and from other outside sources.

The Mormon church is not Christian.

The Christian church, being the body that bears the name, should reserve the right to define itself and its core beliefs, however points of emphasis may vary between denominations. Christians define themselves as those who believe in the humanity and divinity of Jesus, the only begotten son of a creating, omnipotent, omniscient, timeless God. We believe that God has a triune nature including Father, Son, and Spirit, and that the Son lived upon this earth, died upon the cross as payment for humanity's transgressions, rose from the dead, and will return a second time "to judge the living and the dead" in the words of the Apostles' Creed. We believe that we as people are imperfect and doomed to remain so, and that nothing we can do will save our souls except confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord and by receiving the free gift of his grace. Our actions should reflect our faith in Him, but they do not change the course of our soul's path upon our death.

I think that beyond their denial of the Trinity, the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith is perhaps the biggest sticking point in this debate. In all of the LDS church literature and television programs, there is always an undercurrent of tension, of needing to work hard to prove that they are maturing as God intended them to. Grace kicks in after they have done everything they can on their own.

GRACE IS FREE. You do not have to earn it or prove that you deserve it. You don't have to perform baptisms by proxy for dead people. You don't have to jump through ritual hoops in temples to be worthy. Trying to earn one's way into heaven via good works negates Christ's gift of salvation and, in essence, constitutes the individual thumbing his or her nose at this great gift. All have fallen short of the glory of God; we know this! What good is Jesus' freely given sacrifice if we must work for it? No, works will not get you into heaven, not even your pinky toenail, and likewise, works will not lock you out of it. Truly will you answer for what you have done or not done in this life, and it is better to demonstrate your faith than hide it, but all that is necessary is the confession of a repentant heart aching to fill that God-shaped hole.

In closing, I want to emphasize that Christians do not hate Mormons. They do not despise them or wish them ill. We respect and admire much about them. However, we do feel that they have been mislead by the writings of a man who either intentionally or unintentionally (i.e., lead by some kind of demonic influence) deceived them, and we hope that they will have the courage to take a step back and examine the basis of their faith and see if it holds up under scrutiny. Simply having a burning in the bosom or some notion of a testimony about the Book of Mormon does not make it true. I could wish that the sky were green and that would not make it so. The God of the Bible is one of order, consistency, wisdom, power, love, and grace, and I personally cannot put my faith and trust in documents (Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, etc.) that do not withstand the same historical nitpicking as the Biblical texts. Why would God provide the miraculous gold plates to be translated and then take them away, when we have such an abundance of Biblical scripture from antiquity? Why would the LDS church claim to be the restored church when the New Testament states that the true church will never be removed from the face of the earth?

As an individual who joined the church over 30 years ago I would like to share with you what I have learned, during these years, about what Mormons believe. The focus of our life is to try & become more like Jesus. We TRY to learn to live the principals taught and lived by our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ; love, service, prayer, forgiveness, humility and obedience to the commandments of God. We believe that each individual has the right to choose for himself how he will live and that each choice has consequences. , Each week we go to church to learn about Jesus Christ & his atonement. We believe that all who are born on this earth are children of a loving God and therefore all mankind are brothers and sisters. We value families and consider it a privilege to be a parent. Thank you for your attempt to help people understand the Mormon religion.

Since that DNA has proven that the claim of the founder Mr. Smith Jr. is false, Indians of Native America do not come from Israel, the Base of Mormonism has been swept away under their feet. The BOM is proven to be 19th century's common beliefs and mixture of plageriasm from the Bible plus a stolen manuscript from a schoolteacher as well. If you believe a person who had a fantasy who could cheat his family by believing them he had a 'Golden Book', you can believe everything... like gnomes living in your garden. It is not all bad, some things are worth to keep on doing, like Baptism for the Dead, Family History, Priesthood although the latter is debatable. Conclusion: what is truth and what is fiction? Who can tell, only G-D.

Since that DNA has proven that the claim of the founder Mr. Smith Jr. is false, Indians of Native America do not come from Israel, the Base of Mormonism has been swept away under their feet. The BOM is proven to be 19th century's common beliefs and mixture of plageriasm from the Bible plus a stolen manuscript from a schoolteacher as well. If you believe a person who had a fantasy who could cheat his family by believing them he had a 'Golden Book', you can believe everything... like gnomes living in your garden. It is not all bad, some things are worth to keep on doing, like Baptism for the Dead, Family History, Priesthood although the latter is debatable. Conclusion: what is truth and what is fiction? Who can tell, only G-D.

Leanne Knudsen Stated:

By the way, your Book of Mormon states that He was born in Jerusalem, not Bethlehem. You run from all unbiblical teachings, change them when necessary and expect the world to look the other way. I was LDS for 35 years and I know exactly what was and is taught.

You were a Member for for that long and still got this quote wrong? The Book of Mormon says the Savior would be born "at Jerusalem" not "in Jerusalem" if you look up the definition of "at" it states: —used as a function word to indicate presence or occurrence in, on, or near...

its to bad you sound bitter because of lack of faith...

Hello. I posted last month on this article... I was on lds.org tonight trying to get info on Pres. Hinckley's passing and I clicked on this article on the LDS newsroom. I wanted to read the comments that the public have left about the LDS faith & church.

I noticed that some of the LDS readers here have posted remarks in response to my earlier post last month. First of all I would like to say I am who I am... a mother of my beautiful children and a wife of one dear & wonderful man and a member of the LDS church for almost 20 yrs. I served a full time mission for the LDS church and have been active in the Church since my conversion. I have served in the RS, Primary in Presidencies and as a teacher. I have been endowed and have been actively engaged in geneological work.

Just wanted to share a bit about me, so that my identity is not questioned. :) Just needed to clear that up!

I wanted to post again and once again unashamedely ( sp?) state that the Mormon Church is not and can not be paired up with mainstream Christianity. Pres. Hinckley himself stated that we do not worship the same Christ as the Christian world. We honor & love Christ, the Son of God who was chosen since the foundation of the world to be the savior of mankind..he is our spirit brother, and not our God as the Christian world views Him. He came to earth to work out His own salvation and ours. ( so very radically different from the christian view). We believe Christ is our brother, not our "God" as the Christian world teaches and believes so strongly. The God we worship, as Mormons is Elohim. I want to make that very clear. Elder Bruce R. McConkie gave a wonderful speach back in 1984 to the BYU students on Our personal relationship with Jesus Christ , and in this talk he clearly stated that we do not worship Christ, and it is perilous to do so. Mormons worship God, the eternal Father, known as Elohim. Jesus Christ was sent to earth to atone for us, but at the same time he was working out his own salvation and grew grace upon grace.

This is a very unique difference between us and the Christian world.

The Christian's world view is biblically based, the Mormon world view is based on modern revelation, and especially focused on the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Without Joseph Smith there would be no unique teachings between mormonism and Christianity.

I still continue to believe it is inherently false to call us "Christians" in the same sense as the Biblcal Christians call themselves.
Latter Day Saints is a better word, and more honest name to call us.

I would never tell my Christian friends that I am Christian -- because simply we are not. ( in their eyes and in mine) We are Latter Day Saints who worship in a very unique way.

I spent 18 mos of my life teaching Christians about mormonism.... if mormonism was another brand of Christianity there would be no need for Christians to convert to the one true Church.

Let's not be bashful or ashamed of what we know to be true -- Mormonism can not lump itself with the rest of the christian world! I think Joseph and Brigham would be rolling over in their graves if they believed that the Church they worked so hard to establish was just another Christian church.

I think it's very critical that mormons be transparent with the world and stop trying to fit into a box that simply will not fit us in!

Mormons are not like the rest of the Christians -- plain and simple. We recognize Jesus as the Savior of the World , but we do not worship him as our "God". There is but one God that we worship and that is Elohim!

I am not ashamed to state that is precisely what we are taught in the Temple. Why be ashamed?

I grow so tired of fellow saints trying to give the world "milk" and hiding the "meat" for fear of what others may think.... let the world think what they think..... I believe that is what Brigham would tell us today!

Also just a thought on the principle of grace... as a mormon woman, mother, and wife... I am sorry to disagree with the men here, but I and most LDS women I know feel very strongly the need to work out our salvation! Jesus did die for us, but his grace only covers as far as the resurection is concerned. Meaning, yes, all will be saved from physical death thru the atonement of Jesus Christ. But let's be clear here for mormons, we believe there is a difference between salvation and exhaltation!! Salvation is *not* enough for LDS who are faithful.... we want exaltation in the celestial kingdom! Salvation is a free gift thru Christ's grace... but to receive exaltation... to become a god as we believe in the literal sense of the word , we must work out our salvation , make & keep covenants, receive all the saving ordinances of the temple and endure to the end.... I am sorry to disagree with the LDS folks here -- but faithful LDS know very well that their exaltation is not secured by Jesus' grace! It is by our works friends, we must be obedient and faithful to the end! We can not rely solely on grace as a means to exaltation and eternal life..... which is to live with God the father and to rule and reign with Him forever! It is deceptive to our Christian friends and the world at large to tell them that we believe in grace as they do, for we do not. Our defination of grace is very unique and not like mainstream christians believe and teach and definately not like the grace mentioned in the bible.

Again I am not ashamed, and I believe LDS should stop trying to fit into the mainstream christian "box".... we simply can't!

Just my .02 ~~ for whatever it' worth!

If the venom, bigotry and hatred that has been displayed in this thread by many apparent "Christians", defines the modern use of the word, then perhaps members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are not "Christians" and that's looking more and more like a good thing. There, you won! Now live with it!

I have never posted a comment before yet my comment was denied for this reason. It took much time to write it and I am disappointed it it now lost.

Among my ancestors, I have Ana-Baptists (Zurich, Switerland)who protested the Catolic Church's baptism of infants. They were burned at the stake, and drowned in the depths of the sea.When they came to America they were known as the Amish. I have Quakers, Baptist ministers, and yes, Moromn Pioneers. My grandmother was born in Denmark. I have English, Welch, Scotch, Irish, and German blood. My Christian ancestors have paid a great price in helping establish this great land.
Now we want every one to understand that we are Christian. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God that while here on the earth he established his church, The Church of Jesus Christ. That church has been restored to the earth.
Today it is known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It has the very same organization as did Christ's Church. We believe in the Bible, probably more literally than other denominations.Anyone can know the truthfullness of this church if they will study it's doctrine and pray to know if it is true. I bear you my testimony that this is indeed the church of Jesus Christ. We invite everyone to find out for themselves the truth.
Our church has always encouraged and supprted other denominations. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, gave thousands of dollars to restore the Catholic Church's Church of the Madeline in Salt Lake City. Every year several tons of food and supplies are given to areas that are in need. One year we sent about thrty nine thousand quilts to Kosovo.
We believe we should live as the Savior would have us live. We believe that Christ was crucified for our sins, and that He atoned for our sins that we might return to our Heavenly Father. Our prophet Joseph and his brother were murdered in cold blood, our people (about 5,000 or more) were driven out of the state of Illinois, having been forced at gunpoint to leave their homes and property, by people who knew they would be forced to leave, so did not offer to buy their property. The Mississippi River froze solid that year, which was fortunate for my great, great, great, grandparents, because they were forced to leave on February 4th, 1846. This was in the dead of winter. Although Joseph Smith had appealed to the President Van Buren, they were denied the protection the constitution.

All that we would ask is that we be given the same understanding and consideration that they would like to be afforded.

A

Among my ancestors, I have Ana-Baptists (Zurich, Switerland)who protested the Catolic Church's baptism of infants. They were burned at the stake, and drowned in the depths of the sea.When they came to America they were known as the Amish. I have Quakers, Baptist ministers, and yes, Moromn Pioneers. My grandmother was born in Denmark. I have English, Welch, Scotch, Irish, and German blood. My Christian ancestors have paid a great price in helping establish this great land.
Now we want every one to understand that we are Christian. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God that while here on the earth he established his church, The Church of Jesus Christ. That church has been restored to the earth.
Today it is known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It has the very same organization as did Christ's Church. We believe in the Bible, probably more literally than other denominations.Anyone can know the truthfullness of this church if they will study it's doctrine and pray to know if it is true. I bear you my testimony that this is indeed the church of Jesus Christ. We invite everyone to find out for themselves the truth.
Our church has always encouraged and supprted other denominations. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, gave thousands of dollars to restore the Catholic Church's Church of the Madeline in Salt Lake City. Every year several tons of food and supplies are given to areas that are in need. One year we sent about thrty nine thousand quilts to Kosovo.
We believe we should live as the Savior would have us live. We believe that Christ was crucified for our sins, and that He atoned for our sins that we might return to our Heavenly Father. Our prophet Joseph and his brother were murdered in cold blood, our people (about 5,000 or more) were driven out of the state of Illinois, having been forced at gunpoint to leave their homes and property, by people who knew they would be forced to leave, so did not offer to buy their property. The Mississippi River froze solid that year, which was fortunate for my great, great, great, grandparents, because they were forced to leave on February 4th, 1846. This was in the dead of winter. Although Joseph Smith had appealed to the President Van Buren, they were denied the protection the constitution.

All that we would ask is that we be given the same understanding and consideration that they would like to be afforded.

A

I appreciated this article which I believe clearly delineates the two views when addressing the question of whether Mormons are Christians. Many of the comments above reflect statements that appear to be very biased, angry, and almost vengeful--in fact, very un-Christian. To those of you who seem to react so negatively, I suggest you re-read the article and recognize the matter was covered in a most objective way and deserves a Christian-like response.

I appreciated this article that clearly delineates the two views of addressing the issue as to whether Mormons are Christian. Many of the comments above, however, reflect a one-sided, biased, vengeful, and un-Christian approach by the commentors. Why are many of you so defensive you're really offensive? Just read the article again and realize what was written is very objective and very appropriate.

I appreciated this article that clearly delineates the two views of addressing the issue as to whether Mormons are Christian. Many of the comments above, however, reflect a one-sided, biased, vengeful, and un-Christian approach by the commentors. Why are many of you so defensive you're really offensive? Just read the article again and realize what was written is very objective and very appropriate.

I am also a Latter Day Saint, I have read the Book of Mormon prayerfully and have received a witness that the book is true. I agree that this is the most effective way to know if Mormons are Christians. One thing that really amazes me is that other Christians fail to understand the position the LDS Church takes by claiming a restoration of the Church that Christ established and that he is the one that has directed this restoration. Here is another good link to read for those interested in this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Christianity

I loved it. Finally,someone who understands that we all need to simmer down and behave ourselves. What makes us so different from the rest of the world can make us stronger if we will only let it. We do not need to dwell on our differences but use them to make each other stronger. I have many friends and many neighbors and I celebrate the fact that we all believe different things and have different goals. However, we are all very much the same. We all want our marriages to work our children to be successful and our nation to thrive. That is more than enough for me to call them all my friends.

I was born a Catholic, grew up a Catholic, educated in one of the best Catholic institution (University of San Carlos, cebu City, Philippines) ... but in my 42nd year living in this world, I decided to convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints in July 29,2000. After reading their religious literatures, Book of Mormon and other publications I realize this is the faith that has awakened my fervor in the Almighty Father,the living Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

I believe the Mormons are family-oriented and more religious with regard to their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is not much reverence on icons or religious objects ... but the thought that Jesus Christ was lived on this earth but died for our sins is enough to keep one's faith in Him burning with the flame of Holy Spirit.

As usual on any interesting topic found on any oportunity to comment there are a few people whose names constantly pop up. They allways appear to be sickly friendly and polite yet full of venom. If, and I assume they are, professed Christians one thing seems very aparent to me and its this, "You do not know what spirit you are of"

I was born a Catholic, grew up a Catholic, educated in one of the best Catholic institution (University of San Carlos, cebu City, Philippines) ... but in my 42nd year living in this world, I decided to convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints in July 29,2000. After reading their religious literatures, Book of Mormon and other publications I realize this is the faith that has awakened my fervor in the Almighty Father,the living Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

I believe the Mormons are family-oriented and more religious with regard to their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is not much reverence on icons or religious objects ... but the thought that Jesus Christ was lived on this earth but died for our sins is enough to keep one's faith in Him burning with the flame of Holy Spirit.

I have always found it so strange that there is such a strong backlash to the LDS religion. So much in fact, that other religions actually have classes devoted to debunking the Mormon faith. I appreciate the comments of "Brian." I too am LDS and have prayed for myself to find the answer. That's what it boils down to. What's sad is when the discussion generates into degrading another person's beliefs. To me, that is the opposite of being Christ like, which should be the goal of all people, regardless of religion.

To Kenneth,

I'm glad to hear you are searching. Can I add some thoughts as one who has done the same and feels he has found the truth?

I am a Latter-day Saint. It has been said that if the Book of Mormon is not a book that comes from God, then the entire work of the Church is a fraud; But if the Book IS of God, then this Church is the greatest message on the earth.

I think believers and non-believers alike can agree with that statement.

Do all of the searching you need but I feel your answer (one way or the other) lies in the Book of Mormon. If it's a true book, then the Prophet who brought it about is a true prophet. If he was a true prophet, then the Church he established is God's true Church on the earth.

I hope you will examine the Book of Mormon and prayerfully decide. I believe that those who do not believe in the book will be left to explain another way how it got here. I've read the book and it is compelling evidence. I can hardly find a verse that doesn’t teach of the Savior and his ways and bring me closer to the Spirit.

If you pursue a serious course to discover for yourself, Kenneth, be braced for opposition on all sides. You will hear more negative things than you could even imagine. That's the way it's always been when there has been a work from God to go forward. That's the way it always will be. Just do it for yourself and make it personal between you and the Lord.

Best wishes to you and your future,

Brian

Kenneth,
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I hope the best for you in your search. I also hope that you will follow Jesus's counsel in how you are to know when you have found His truth. Please consider these verses:
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John 14:
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
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John 16:13 Howbeit when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
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Moroni 10:5 And BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST YE MAY KNOW THE TRUTH OF ALL THINGS.
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We're to rely upon the Holy Ghost to know the truth. Paul warned us against using our own understanding, and said that we can *not* know God's truths without the Holy Ghost to teach us:
1 Cor 2:
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Peace.

I have read a number of the comments concerning the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I spent 4 years studing all of the Christian faiths (religion or churches). I found that there is very little diffenent in them when you consider they all use the same manual (Bible).
In fact there should only be one Church when you consider they all use the Bible. After many studies I find that there are only 2 possible correct Christian religion. The Catholic for they are the ones who had access to the greater knowledge of the Jews/Christian. And if they are right (Catholic) than all other denominations are wrong for they are part of the Protest... against the Catholic. This correctness of the Catholic would also make the Church of Jesus Christ/Latter Day Saints wrong also. Now if the Catholics are indeed in error and incorrect then all of the denominations are wrong also, since they formed from the Protest.. of the Catholic. This would leave the Church of Jesus Christ/Latter Day Saints as the true Christain religion.

We must study the Catholic and the Church of Jesus Christ/Latter Day Saints and find their diffenences for here is were we find God's true religion. Now here is were I begins my search for a true Christian religion. For I know that if I don't find it here, then it does not exist (true Christian religion).

I have read a number of the comments concerning the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I spent 4 years studing all of the Christian faiths (religion or churches). I found that there is very little diffenent in them when you consider they all use the same manual (Bible).
In fact there should only be one Church when you consider they all use the Bible. After many studies I find that there are only 2 possible correct Christian religion. The Catholic for they are the ones who had access to the greater knowledge of the Jews/Christian. And if they are right (Catholic) than all other denominations are wrong for they are part of the Protest... against the Catholic. This correctness of the Catholic would also make the Church of Jesus Christ/Latter Day Saints wrong also. Now if the Catholics are indeed in error and incorrect then all of the denominations are wrong also, since they formed from the Protest.. of the Catholic. This would leave the Church of Jesus Christ/Latter Day Saints as the true Christain religion.

We must study the Catholic and the Church of Jesus Christ/Latter Day Saints and find their diffenences for here is were we find God's true religion. Now here is were I begins my search for a true Christian religion. For I know that if I don't find it here, then it does not exist (true Christian religion).

I really enjoyed this article. I copied it and put it in my folder. Thanks you for explaining everything.

Two comments:

Matthew 7:1-2, "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

and

Matthew 7:20, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Thank you Michael,
The most recent speach by Mitt Romney was one that may eventually save our country's continued need for religious liberty. And the protection thereof. Though a fact is that the people of any generation can alter a government to fit their desires. This is scary and we need to not be complacent about believing that what the founders set up can never be changed. Ie.. the constitution. I hope we have enough citizens that desire to keep the original intent of the constitution in place to protect religious liberties. Mitt said something that is most profound... Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

I am a Latter-Day Saint and I appreciate this article as a clear and correct expression of the way I feel as a Christian/Mormon who is often confused and hurt by those who so easily reject our faith as non-Christian. Unfortunately it probably will not be read or accepted by those who insist that Mormons are not Christians. The fact that I believe in Jesus Christ and try to live the things he taught seem to have no validity in this argument. I have observed that those who don't know much about the Church, pretty much don't want to know much about the Church and prefer to believe what they have been told by non Mormons, though they will easily admit that we are nice, good people who love our families and our country.

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I am not Mormon but I have been close enough to Mormons over the past several decades to have observed what I consider to be admirable traits: high moral standards, exceptional family relationships within the immediate family and the community and, unlike so many members of the more "mainstream" religions they observe the teachings of their faith on a daily basis and not only on Sundays or traditional holidays. Not Christian? I hardly think so. Christ is ever present in their lives. Perhaps some of the rest of the "mainstream" folks could learn from them!

"Come follow Me," the Savior said. "Love thy neighbor even as thyself." These are words that I would expect a "Christian" to follow. I don't remember when Christ said, "and thou shalt believe that I, my Father, and the Holy Spirit are one and the same being." In fact, I don't believe the word "Trinity" appears anywhere in Biblical canon.
Christians are found in churches across America. Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, Evangelic, Apostolic, Mormon, Jehovah Witness... all claim to follow the teachings of the same Jesus Christ found in the New Testament. Some church goers do their following a bit more earnestly than others. I know many members of each of these denominations. There are shining examples of charity, love, and Christ-like attributes from each. There are also those who wear Christian on their sleeve like a title, but don't give a rip about anyone. The Lord must shutter at the way some "Christians" drag his holy name through the mud.
I hope we're giving the title of Christian to those that are worthy to have it, regardless of religious affiliation, culture, race, etc.. "Christian" would be more aptly used to describe a state of being or behavior; not something bestowed upon you because holy water was sprinkled on your forehead; or because one day, ten years ago, you decided, "Hey, I believe in God, I must be Christian!"
As for politics and Mitt Romney: the Mormon Church has repeatedly declared their "political neutrality." The Mormon church does not speak for Mitt Romney and he doesn't speak for them. If we're worried about religion affecting the oval office, should be more wary of Mike Huckabee. He wants to "amend the Constitution so it’s in God’s standards. (1/15/2008)"

Make love, not war!

@ Jon Penny,
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Thanks for your comment. I had little hope of attention or a response from Sid Walters. I posted my responses more to make them available to other LDS who may find them useful to answer similar questions. I find one value of blogs like this is that we can share our answers real time to real challenges and then save the ones that we like from other Saints: the critics lead us to learn the answers as a unified group.
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All this reminds me of an old movie I saw with Egdgar Bergen (Candice Bergen's father). He was a ventiloquist and had different dummies like Charley McCarthy and Knothead. In this particular movie, Edgar Bergen and Knothead were being chased through a circus by the bad guys and hid in the basket of the large balloon. Knothead was knocked out and the ballon became untied. Knothead awoke as they were drifting over the landscape and asked where they were and how they got there. He then asked how the balloon worked and Edgar Bergen tried to explain how helium was lighter than air, etc. Knothead listened for a while and then said, *while floating in the air*, "Nah -- I don't think it would work."
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I see the same thinking in critics of the restored gospel. We explain the healing power of the Christ's atonement as it works through His restored Church and every day we see people enjoy the same healing and peace all over the world. Yet the critics still say, "Nah -- I don't think it would would work!"
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My answer is, "Hey, the restored gospel saved my life and then it healed my soul. I know this and I'm not going to set it aside for things that I do not yet know." A recounting of my experience is available at:
http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2582#comment-97137
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Peace.

Manaen:

Good on you. Of course, you know Sid Walters long ago stopped watching: not interested in truth.

Anyway, thanks for keeping our end up: I've been absent, and you did a much better and more thorough (and more charitable) job of correcting the ravings than I would have.

Peace out.

Just a friendly response to Jerry Persall:

I respect your opinion that you think the Book of Mormon is a hoax but somewhere down the line wouldn't you have to explain where it came from? It was produced in approximately 80 days (many non-Mormon historians can agree with that). Is there an explanation (e.g. that Joseph Smith made it up, that a committee made it up, etc.) other than it came from God? The book brings me closer to my Savior, Jesus Christ and helps me feel of His love for me. It has even brought non-believers of Christ (Jews, atheists, agnostics, etc.) to now believe in Christ. The "fruits" of this book help me realize that this is God speaking to us again today--not to replace the Bible but as another witness that Jesus IS the Christ and to clarify points that have been ARGUED BETWEEN CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS for ages. I hope ANYONE with doubts about it's origins will obtain a copy and examine it--independent of any other person. Thank you for your time.

Great job, very well said! Thanks.

Great job, very well said! Thanks.

Are Mormons Christian?

To find out the answer, I did what any internet user might do: I decided to google the "definition of Christian."

The first thing that popped up is: "Web definitions for Christian" I clicked on it.

I liked the 3rd dot on the page: "following the teachings or manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus Christ" - If that is your definition of Christian, then YES, Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, anyone that tries following the teachings,or spirit of Christ is a Christian.

I propose that one of the best ways of following the teachings of Jesus Christ is following the two great commandments: Love God & love my neighbor.

Now, back to my google search. On the other side of the coin, the Fourth dot on my google search for the definition of Christian- "A Christian is normally very narrow-minded, judgmental followers of Jesus of Nazareth, referred to as the Christ"

LOL- Guess what? I think the answer to that definition is exactly the same as the previous answer: Are Mormons Christians? If that is your definition of Christian, then YES, some Mormons, some Baptists,some Catholics,and some Protestants could all be considered Christians.

So....depending on your definition of Christian, many people, of many religions are Christian, however open or narrow your definition may be.

I for one choose to try to follow the teachings of Christ and will let Him decide ultimately if I was a true Christian by the way I kept His commandments and loved Him and my fellow man.

Are Mormons Christians? Yes. Get to know one, you'll know what I mean.

Good article. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have many many friends of all religions and backgrounds. We fight for the right for ALL to worship how they will. We beleive in being literal followers of the Savior when we come to the knowledge of his power and existance. As has been stated in previous posts. If you truely want to know what we beleive. Ask Us. Don't ask so you may argue or fight. If you really want to know, ask with an open heart. We try to live good lives but are shunned for it in circles that think it's funny to live by the "old fashioned" way. Is it "old fashioned" to help our neighbiors in need? Did he not say come follow me? I submit that he wasn't asking us to skateboard around and check out what he was doing next. He was asking us to live the way he lived as much as possible. He knows we are not prefect. Thats why He died for us. Heavenly Father would not leave us to wander alone in these days. The Book of Mormon is a religious history and complilation of the wars and trials of the peole in Ainchent America. And another testiment that He does live, and loves all of his children. In the Bible its states that there are two sticks. One of Judah and one of Joseph. Sticks were refered to as writ. Judah is the Bible, Joseph is the Book of Mormon. Its says they will speak unto us from the dust. For those who have trouble believeing such a record existed. See all the evidence uncovered in lands where records have been found. They are in the form of thin plates of various metals. The same that the Book of Mormon were recorded on. But mostly. Ask in your heart. No one else can tell you by showing you things. But only by the spirit by which ALL men have access to. Are we as humans so arrogant that we think we know everything? Why couldn't there be continuing revelation, especially since the Savior said we would have that. Let's all get together and be good to each other. No matter what you belive or don't believe. We are all human and capable of great mistakes. The people will never be perfect in this life. But the Doctrines and ordinances are. I love all my friends of all walks of life and celebrate thier love of what they hold dear to them!
Sandy

This is one of the best statements I've heard describing my faith and how to best learn about it. Thank you Michael Otterson.

I thought the article was very well written and objective. It is rare to read a religious article, especially one about Mormons that is not obviously slanted one way or the other.

I am a Mormon, although I have not been an active member for years. After reading both the article and several of these blogs, I understand both perspectives better, namely that Mormons may or may not be Christians, depending on your perspective. Like many LDS members, I have often been perplexed why other Christian religions refused to allow Mormons in the Christian group. Mormons are very offended that they would not be called Christians because their broad definition would be; someone who accepts Christ as their Savior and lives a life indicative of their beliefs.

From the Evangelical perspective, I would imagine their definition for Christians would involve tradition as much as theological accuracy; meaning someone who professes their belief in Christ, being saved by grace, using the Christ defined in the Nicean Creed. The reason I mention tradition is once one alters the basic tenets of their belief, like Mormons do i.e. additional book of scripture, the different Trinity, modern revelation, men becoming Gods ect, that this new version is at least a diluted version and most heresy.

We could certainly agree to disagree. I think Mormons need to understand the Evangelical perspective and stop insisting that everyone accepts them as Christians. (For the same reason that Mormons do not want to include polygamous sects or conservatives want to alter their definition of Marriage by allowing homosexuals to marry)

On the other hand, Evangelicals need to practice what the preach and stop going out of their way to tell Mormons they are not Christian, knowing they are deeply hurt by the accusation.

The extreme blogs, calling the Mormon religion a cult or worse are based on either blatant ignorance or in some cases deliberate lies by angry ex-Mormons who will write anything to destroy the church, such as saying Romney is working with LDS leadership to take over the country.

Both sides could be more tolerant of each other, although I would give the Mormons more credit for reaching out and showing respect toward evangelicals. In a day and age when racial bigotry is not tolerated in this country, is amazes me how we still accept and often promote religious bigotry. (Many more people will not vote for Romney because of his religion that those who will not vote for Obama because of his race) I personally don't believe any Mormon could ever be elected president for this reason alone.

Many anti-Mormons are upset about being excommunicated from the church. The Mormon lifestyle is so consuming, that the sense of loss for some leaving the church is similar to a divorce or a death in the family. Many react be organizing and doing anything they can to destroy the church.

Still others are jealous of the success of the Mormon church, whether it is losing members from another faith or the great deal of wealth and power the church has attained. (Some speculate they have up to a 50 billion dollar network) Wealth and power is a big issue for the Evangelicals, who are often frustrated from their recent lack of political influence.

Speaking for all conservatives, what frustrates me is that Evangelicals refuse to work with the Mormons instead of against them in politics. Both groups do have very similar political beliefs. Evangelicals are so concerned that Romney winning will legitimize the Mormon faith that they must believe the Mormons are a greater threat than the liberals. With their combined influenced and less bickering, it would be much more likely that a real conservative like Thompson or Romney would have more success, rather than Social Liberals like McCain, Gulliani or Huckabee.

Curtis Simon
Arizona

@ MANAEN --

Thank you for those quotes --- I had not remembered the quote from Pres. Hinckley especially. Hopefully our lives will continue to be our best testomony. Sensationalism sells, and people who oppose Mormonism know that. But hopefully with all of us together living as we should and talking sincerely on public forums such as this one, folks will start seeing through the smokescreens that people toss up about the Church and just respect us for who we really are ----- instead of throwing ignorant & inflammatory punches.

Well done !!!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting this article. You are right when you say that the thought that mormons are not christians hurts us. Yes, I said us. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I say that Jesus Christ is the center of my faith. I pray to the same god everyone else does, I sometimes think that God and Christ are more real to me than to many other people. Whenever people ask me if I am a Christian I bear my testimony to them that Christ lives as you and I do. So why does this debate still rage. Do people not believe that myself and others feel this way? When I do tell them these things they act as though they don't believe me. Be that as it may, Jesus Christ knows who truely believes, loves and worships him and that is all that really matters any way.
Sincerely,

Dawn from North Carolina

Sick and Brig Graff, thank you for your comments! I like how you've shown that "sweet is the peace the gospel brings."
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Your comments reminded me a few quotations:
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"While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we must not be disagreeable. We must be friendly, soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding."
-- Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley, GenCon 10/2003
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23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
-- 2 Tim 2:23-26
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28 [...] And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.
29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.
-- 3 Nephi 11:28-30

Well, I guess I'll bite my tongue at all the spiteful comments being thrown in these posts at my religion (Mormonism) and the attempts to make it sound like a sham. No need to address each one individually. Growing up in Seattle I often was amazed when I would be at school and kids would track me down so they could "try out" the latest anti-Mormon jabs they learned from their pastor on Sunday. You could tell they were excited to take some belief I had, yank it out of context, and accuse me of belonging to a non-Christian cult. I can't tell you what it was like to have that happen to me week after week --- but soon I got pretty defensive and really quite upset that it seemed all the other religions talked about was how awful Mormonism was. One teacher even had a girl do a report in class about how Mormons were a messed-up non-Christian cult with a con-artist false prophet. My jaw about hit the floor. If that teacher had allowed a similar bit of religion-hate towards any other religion, it would have been considered highly inappropriate. But for some reason, it was okay to use students in a public school to bash Mormonism because "hey, they're just Mormons and they're a cult of wackos anyway."

Well, reading some of these comments makes me feel like I'm right back there at high school, but thankfully I'm a lot more "live & let live" about things now. I guess I don't have the time or energy anymore to try to counter every barb thrown at my religion. But in the end I'm not sure it matters. What matters is that I believe that Jesus Christ is my Savior. I attend the Church of Jesus Christ. Living his teachings leads to happiness & peace...really...no joke. And that is the core of all the other beliefs in Mormonism -- which are all there to lead us to that one overwhelming truth...Christ saves, and his teachings lead to real happiness. If that isn't Christian in your eyes, then I suppose your definition of Christian is something other than "someone who worships Christ as their savior."

And as James said in the New Testament, faith without works is dead. So we try to live it, and we'll also continue to do our missionary work because the Savior asked us to "feed his sheep." So we try to carry it to others too. But if they don't want it, and if they throw stabs at ours, well then we just keep moving forward & live life the best we can. We hope that someday you'll see by our actions that we are sincerely trying to follow Christ and to help our fellow man --- just take a look at the huge humanitarian effort of the Church that is provided to all people in the world in times of crisis, regardless of their faith or beliefs. But if you still think we're wackos, I guess it doesn't matter --- we'll just keep trying to live good lives, worship Christ, and do good in the world. Maybe someday people will get it...that that's what Mormonism is. Yep, we have some beliefs that many others find odd. But so do all religions, if you pull those beliefs out of context and wave them in front of people who are less informed about the religion. It just fans controversy. And in the end we don't deserve to have mud thrown at us just because we are Mormon.

After having read only a portion of the comments it sickens me along with many others who have already commented here the ignorance of many who have claimed "fact." There is no doubt as to major differences of belief between the Church of Jesus Christ and other Christian sects. There always will be and I respect the right of Christian's and non-Christian's alike to worship as they choose. Hence I am not here to debate doctrinal beliefs. What disturbs me is the slander and biggotry that has been posted about early church leaders. Those who truly knew them knew them to be men of integrity and high moral character. Having differing beliefs does not give someone the right to bash others. I do not agree with many doctrines set forth by early religious reformers such as Martin Luther, but that does not mean that I will resolve to purporting vicious and unsubstantiated rumors about the lives of good men who lived hundreds of years ago. Although I disagree with their teachings, I recognize them as men of faith and good works. Anyone who studies truthful and substantiated histories of men such as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young will find the same to be true of them even if they do not aggree about doctrines. And if you want fact, don't just search the web. Most web sites have about as much truth as a gossipy neighbor.
Finally, as much as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints respect and admire the prophet Joseph Smith, go to any meeting and you will see that the person that we talk of more than any other is our saviour Jesus Christ.

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18. When Elohim decided on a project from his planet to build planet Earth, his spirits who didn't agree with either Jesus or his brother Lucifer (the devil)and were neutral about it were cursed to be born with black skin, and that's how the Negro race came to be, right? It's in your books.
--- Nope, the Church consistently has refuted the speculation that there were neutrals in the war in heaven that resulted in Lucifer and his followers being cast out. Official doctrine is that everyone born on earth chose to follow God’s plan. Please share, if you have it, any reference from *official* Church teachings that tells of neutrals, much less that they were clustered into any particular race or other grouping.
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(FWIW, both the 1st and 2nd editions of "Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce R. McConkie, have this in the Preface, "For the work [book] itself, I assume full and sole responsibility." Please don't try to use as an authoritative description of the Church's doctrine a book that states it is *not* authoritative and never was endorsed as autnoritative by the Church)

Response to Sid Walters’ #17 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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17. “How can you claim that your cult is even remotely Christian?”
--- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neither a cult nor remotely Christian: it is *closely* Christian, because Christ restored it -- the other Christian organizations are more remote from Christ than the Church which He restored.
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Here are a few of the references from The Book of Mormon that show our Christianity:
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Ether 3: 14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.
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3 Nephi 9:15 Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.
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Moroni 7: 38 For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name
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Alma 38:9 […] there is no other way or means whereby man can be saved, only in and through Christ.
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2 Nephi 25:26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
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Helaman 5: 9 […] remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ,
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Omni 1: 26 […] come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption.
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Mosiah 3:17 […] there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent.
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Alma 34: 8 […] I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
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Mosiah 5: 8 […] There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ,
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Jacob 4: 11 […] be reconciled unto him through the atonement of Christ, his Only Begotten Son, and ye may obtain a resurrection, according to the power of the resurrection which is in Christ, and be presented as the first-fruits of Christ unto God,
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Alma 5: 48 […] I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.
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Jacob 1: 7 Wherefore we labored diligently among our people, that we might persuade them to come unto Christ, and partake of the goodness of God, that they might enter into his rest,
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Alma 39: 15 […] concerning the coming of Christ. Behold, I say unto you, that it is he that surely shall come to take away the sins of the world;
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Mosiah 15: 23 They are raised to dwell with God who has redeemed them; thus they have eternal life through Christ, who has broken the bands of death.
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Helaman 3: 28 Yea, thus we see that the gate of heaven is open unto all, even to those who will believe on the name of Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God.
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Mosiah 4: 2 […] O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.
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Alma 4: 14 […] thus retaining a remission of their sins; being filled with great joy because of the resurrection of the dead, according to the will and power and deliverance of Jesus Christ from the bands of death.
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Alma 22:13 […] the plan of redemption, which was prepared from the foundation of the world, through Christ, for all whosoever would believe on his name.
14 And since man had fallen he could not merit anything of himself; but the sufferings and death of Christ atone for their sins,

Response to Sid Walters’ #16 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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16. “A man can become a god and be the ruler of his own planet. Right? More Christianity?”
--- Right about becoming a god, son of God the Father (Gal 4:6-7). Not sure where you got the part about ruling own planet – those of us so exalted will live together here on glorified Earth. All this only is possible through Christ: He created the earth, gave His life to atone for our sins, and effected the resurrection – definitely more Christianity.

Response to Sid Walters’ #15 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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15. “You believe that; As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become. Right? Christian?”
--- Right, definitely. But, as noted above, those who attain this will continue to worship God.
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Romans 8:
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
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1 John 3:
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
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Galations 4:
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
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Philippians 2:
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
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Matthew 5:
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Response to Sid Walters’ #14 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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14. “Will you please tell me how to become A god?”
--- Jesus and his apostles taught that. Some scriptural references are available here: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/m/29
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Also, here’s a summary of qualifications:
(D&C 76:)
50 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just—
51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—
52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;
53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.
54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—
56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60 And they shall overcome all things.
61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

Response to Sid Walters’ #13 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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13. “(a)Where does it say in the Holy Bible that we get to heaven through good works and sacrificial rituals in your HOLY temples? (b)Cut your throat from ear to ear and slice open your belly if you fall from faith? What is that about? Christian, right?”
--- (a) I don’t know anywhere in the scriptures where it says that we get to heaven through good works. Here’s a verse from The Book of Mormon, “Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that IT IS ONLY IN AND THROUGH THE GRACE OF GOD THAT YE ARE SAVED.” (2 Nephi 10:24)
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All salvation and exaltation is a gift of grace from God. Our works don’t do it -- just ponder what would be the effects of our works if God had withheld his grace in giving us creation, atonement for sin, resurrection, sealing by the priesthood, etc.
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A modern apostle talked about this a few years ago. He explained that our challenge is to become the kind of being who will qualify for God’s *gifts* of salvation and exaltation:
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“From such teachings we conclude that the Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts--what we have done. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts--what we have become. It is not enough for anyone just to go through the motions. The commandments, ordinances, and covenants of the gospel are not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan that shows us how to become what our Heavenly Father desires us to become.
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“A parable illustrates this understanding. A wealthy father knew that if he were to bestow his wealth upon a child who had not yet developed the needed wisdom and stature, the inheritance would probably be wasted. The father said to his child:
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"’All that I have I desire to give you--not only my wealth, but also my position and standing among men. That which I *have* I can easily give you, but that which I *am* you must obtain for yourself. You will qualify for your inheritance by learning what I have learned and by living as I have lived. I will give you the laws and principles by which I have acquired my wisdom and stature. Follow my example, mastering as I have mastered, and you will become as I am, and all that I have will be yours.’
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“This parable parallels the pattern of heaven. The gospel of Jesus Christ promises the incomparable inheritance of eternal life, the fulness of the Father, and reveals the laws and principles by which it can be obtained.
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“We qualify for eternal life through a process of *conversion*. As used here, this word of many meanings signifies not just a convincing but a profound change of nature.”
(Dallin Oaks, General Conference, 10/2000. Link: http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-138-15,00.html)
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Our works help us become such, but in no way do we merit anything because of them, we just qualify for God’s *gift*. Another example, for Stephen Robinson’s “Believing Christ,” is say a wealthy relative offered you a trip to Hawaii but you had to say which of two weeks you wanted to go. Choosing the time to go does bring you the gift from the relative but it in *no* way means that you’ve earned it, you only qualified by fulfilling the requirement.
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(b) The cutting and slicing you mention never has been part of anything we believe that God or the Church would do to apostates or to anyone else – and I say this having participated in the temple ceremonies 50-60 times before the changes in 1990. Here’s what the Church consistently has taught, “We believe that all religious societies have a right to deal with their members for disorderly conduct, according to the rules and regulations of such societies; provided that such dealings be for fellowship and good standing; but we do not believe that any religious society has authority to try men on the right of property or life, to take from them this world’s goods, or to put them in jeopardy of either life or limb, or to inflict any physical punishment upon them. They can only excommunicate them from their society, and withdraw from them their fellowship.” (D&C 134:10)

Response to Sid Walters’ #12 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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12. “Is Jesus Christ a product of incest as the book of Mormon suggests? What would Jesus Christ have to say about that?”
--- I’d rather that you maintain respect about our Savior. I don’t how you could suggest what you did about Christ’s parentage.
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Here are some of The Book of Mormon’s words about His birth and His mission:
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Alma 7:
9 But behold, the Spirit hath said this much unto me, saying: Cry unto this people, saying—Repent ye, and prepare the way of the Lord, and walk in his paths, which are straight; for behold, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and the Son of God cometh upon the face of the earth.
10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem [citing the nearest major city, Bethlehem is 6 miles from Jerusalem] which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.
12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.
13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance; and now behold, this is the testimony which is in me.

Response to Sid Walters’ #11 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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11. (a)“Did Elohim have many wives? How many? (b)Why do Mormons belive in Polygamy? Oh, but then they SUDDENLY changed their belief about that, right? Why?”
--- (a) Dunno
(b) We believe in polygamy, when so commanded by God, to obey God. Here’s God’s explanation of why he may command it, “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.” (Jacob 2:30) And so we have Jacob/Israel sire the 12 tribes of Israel with four different women, Leah, Rachel, and their handmaidens. It’s interesting (for me, at least) to note that the Bible has examples of sanctioned polygamy, like the four mothers of the 12 tribes of Israel, but The Book of Mormon has no example of approved polygamy. In fact, The Book of Mormon teaches that the darker Lamanites would not be destroyed but the lighter Nephites would be destroyed because the Lamanites did *not* practice un-commanded polygamy (see Jacob 3:5-9, link: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jacob/3/5-9#5)

Response to Sid Walters’ #10 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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10. “Your heavenly Father Elohim came from what planet? that is near what star?, Kolob you call it? What is that about?”
--- Dunno from where God comes.
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You mentioned Kolob. Here’s what the scriptures say, “Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God” (Abraham 3:9)

Response to Sid Walters’ #9 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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9. “Is the real Jesus Christ related in any way to Lucifer? Satan?”
--- Are you suggesting that Lucifer and Satan are not the same being?
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From the Church’s official website,
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“Like other Christians, we believe Jesus is the divine Son of God. Satan is a fallen angel.
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As the Apostle Paul wrote, God is the Father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are His spirit children. Christ, however, was the only begotten in the flesh, and we worship Him as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.
(http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/answering-media-questions-about-jesus-and-satan)
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Or, do you believe that Satan was not created by the Creator of all things?

Response to Sid Walters’ #8 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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8. “Did Joseph Smith really die a martyr or was he killed in a gunfight by Masons who he stole from while serving time in jail for crimes he commited?”
--- He died as a martyr, locked up again on specious charges. Please note that for most of his adult life, Joseph Smith had some false charge hanging over him but he *never* was found guilty of any of them – this was just a continuing form of harassment. The mob that killed Joseph Smith was led by Protestant ministers, not by Masons.

Response to Sid Walters’ #7 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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7. “How many gods are there? Over 3 million, right?”
--- The first of our Articles of Faith says, “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”
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D&C 76:92-95 reads,
“92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;
93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.
94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
95 And he makes them equal [to each other] in power, and in might, and in dominion”
This clearly shows that those who achieve exaltation will continue to worship the God, the Father.

Response to Sid Walters’ #6 @ 1/11, 3:12 am. I hope that it’s helpful.
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6. “Why did Mormons rewrite the Bible to their own liking and then have the audacity to call themselves Christian?”
--- We use the King James Version of the Bible. One of God’s prophets, Joseph Smith, was working on a more-correct translation but he was martyred before finishing it.

Further to Sid Walters' #5, here is an article in “Christianity Today” that discusses the problem of translating correctly:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/013/5.28.html (note that the subtitle reads, “As good as many modern versions are, they often do not allow us to hear what the Holy Spirit actually said”)

Response to Sid Walters’ comments @ 1/11, 3:12 am, question #5. I hope that it’s helpful.
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5. “Do Mormons realize that when a single word is changed in the Holy Bible that God says it is an abomination?”
--- Yes, that is why a modern prophet said that we believe the Bible as far as it translated correctly. With the multitudinous translations of the Bible available, it is easy to see why we are so counseled.

Response to Sid Walters’ comments @ 1/11, 3:12 am

Here is an answer to your fourth question. I hope that it’s helpful.
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4. “Of your millions of gods, who you believe were finite men, which one of those men created himself as a man and then to become A god?”
--- We worship one God only. God did not create Himself.

Response to Sid Walters’ comments @ 1/11, 3:12 am

Here is an answer to your third question. I hope that it’s helpful.
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3. “Why do Mormons drink water at communion rather than juice or wine like every single Christian church? Well, on this planet anyhow.”
--- In the early days of the restored Church, it became difficult to obtain unadulterated grape juice to use in the Sacrament (communion). In response to a prophet’s inquiry, Jesus instructed His Church that the liquid used does not matter, if we drink it with an eye single to His glory (D&C 27:2-4). We do not take offense, however, when the semi-Christians use wine.

2.” Why is there NO HOLY CROSS inside or outside of any Mormon building of any kind? Do Mormons have a problem with the blood of Christ?”
--- Many died on the cross but only One brought us the resurrection. We celebrate His victory. The usage of the cross was a later innovation. As followers of Christ – not of human traditions – we follow His instructions as to our symbology: the bread and cup we pass weekly in our Sacrament service. Christ said about those symbols, “THIS do in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:19). Please share a scriptural reference to where *Jesus*, whom LDS follow, said to use the symbol of the cross, if you have one.
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The following is from the Church’s official website (link: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=ea7d0bbce1d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____)
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“The cross is used in many Christian churches as a symbol of the Savior's death and Resurrection and as a sincere expression of faith. As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we also remember with reverence the suffering of the Savior. But because the Savior lives, we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith.
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“Our lives must be the expression of our faith. When we are baptized and confirmed, we covenant to take upon ourselves the name of Jesus Christ. The way we live our lives should demonstrate our love for the Savior and His work.”

Response to Sid Walters’ comments @ 1/11, 3:12 am

Here are some answers to your questions. I hope they’re helpful.
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1.
(a)”Who is Moroni, the angel of light, on top every Mormon church/temple?”
--- Moroni is the last of the prophet-authors of The Book of Mormon. Your comment was the first I’ve heard him called “the angel of light.” A statue of him is on most temples however, I’ve haven’t seen one on one of our churches.
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(b)”He is most definitely NOT Jesus, whom you claim to worship. Your own books say Moroni is Satan of hell. Do you deny this?”
--- Moroni most definitely is not Jesus, as explained above. Your comment was the first I’ve heard him called Satan and I deny that any LDS writings refer to him as such. Please provide a reference, if you have one.
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(c) “You worship the Devil?”
--- No, we don’t. We worship God. We do recognize the Devil seeks to destroy us, though.
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(d) “It's your basic Christianity, right?”
--- Yes, basic Christianity was restored in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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(e) “If you say now that Moroni is not the Devil, who has he become?”
--- Moroni is not the Devil and he remains Moroni: he has not become anyone else.

1. Who is Moroni, the angel of light, on top every Mormon church/temple? He is most definitely NOT Jesus, whom you claim to worship. Your own books say Moroni is Satan of hell. Do you deny this? You worship the Devil? It's your basic Christianity, right? If you say now that Moroni is not the Devil, who has he become?

2. Why is there NO HOLY CROSS inside or outside of any Mormon building of any kind? Do Mormons have a problem with the blood of Christ?

3. Why do Mormons drink water at communion rather than juice or wine like every single Christian church? Well, on this planet anyhow.

4. Of your millions of gods, who you believe were finite men, which one of those men created himself as a man and then to become A god?

5. Do Mormons realize that when a single word is changed in the Holy Bible that God says it is an abomination?

6. Why did Mormons rewrite the Bible to their own liking and then have the audacity to call themselves Christian?

7. How many gods are there? Over 3 million, right?

8. Did Joseph Smith really die a martyr or was he killed in a gunfight by Masons who he stole from while serving time in jail for crimes he commited?

9. Is the real Jesus Christ related in any way to Lucifer? Satan?

10. Your heavenly Father Elohim came from what planet? that is near what star?, Kolob you call it? What is that about?

11. Did Elohim have many wives? How many? Why do Mormons belive in Polygamy? Oh, but then they SUDDENLY changed their belief about that, right? Why?

12. Is Jesus Christ a product of incest as the book of Mormon suggests? What would Jesus Christ have to say about that?

13. Where does it say in the Holy Bible that we get to heaven through good works and sacrificial rituals in your HOLY temples? Cut your throat from ear to ear and slice open your belly if you fall from faith? What is that about? Christian, right?

14. Will you please tell me how to become A god?

15. You believe that; As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become. Right? Christian?

16. A man can become a god and be the ruler of his own planet. Right? More Christianity?

17. How can you claim that your cult is even remotely Christian?

18. When Elohim decided on a project from his planet to build planet Earth, his spirits who didn't agree with either Jesus or his brother Lucifer (the devil)and were neutral about it were cursed to be born with black skin, and that's how the Negro race came to be, right? It's in your books.

The answers to these few questions of who knows how many more, clearly go against the Holy Bible's teachings, yet it is clearly writen in your books.
How can you claim that your cult is even remotely Christian? I would like your response each one of these few questions, please. And I haven't even begun.

I came to this site to get information on the Mormon Church. With the primary elections in full swing, Mitt Romney being a candidate, I believe that what I just read as to Mormonism, are they Christians? Should be discussed or read by Mr Romney on one of his appearances with the Media. I believe that would clear-up his religious background. I am a Lutheran in doctrine and agree with the Mormons, it is only by a lack of understanding the Mormon Church suffers the inaccuracy of others. Please help Mr Romney, I believe him to be the best candidate for the Presdency of our great country.

summatheologica, re: your question, "Where in the Book of Mormon does it say Christ was born in Jerusalem?"
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"And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers [...]" -- Alma 7:10
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Note that it says *at* Jerusalem, not *in* Jerusalem. When I was an LDS missionary in Argentina some 30+ years ago, I would tell people that I was from Los Angeles, which was the nearest major city to my small home town, as a way to locate from where I came for those people a third of the way around the world. This is similar to Alma writing, a third/half way around the world, that Christ would be born *at* Jerusalem instead of the actual, small town of Bethlehem 6 miles away. Alma's audience would have heard of Jerusalem because Lehi, their progenitor, and his family lived there until they came to America 500 years before Alma's writing. Alma's audience, however, likely would not be familar with Bethlehem.
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So, I don't see any error here -- just Alma using familar terms to explain Christ's birth to his audience.

Anyone wishing to find out more about what Mormons teach and believe about Jesus Christ and their being Christians --and how those beliefs are similar or different from mainstream Christianity-- may be directed to a recent address from a leader of the LDS church given to the general church membership.

text:

http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-775-15,00.html

audio (takes a minute to load the .mp3):

http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2007/10/20/GC_2007_10_27_HollandJR__02381_eng_.mp3

Also, mormon.org and lds.org are two official websites of the lds church.

Thank you Mr. Otterson for a very informative article, written minus the bias against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints--I was baptised Lutheran many years ago, yet "Born Again" in 1975--and cautioned by other "Born Again" believers in Christ not to trust any Christian Church's teachings, since "all had been corrupted" by false doctrines--

--well, as a Christian, that left me not having any body of believers in Christ with which to belong, and with which to fellowship--I've tried to convert to Catholisim, since my husband is Catholic--I've tried returning to the Lutheran Church--yet, something was always missing from each one--something that I found about 8 years ago, when I began inquiring into the LDS--I had prayed, asking God just which denomination I should finally settle on, since I was becoming a bit desperate by then--and, my answer, that I fully trusted as being from Him, was simply, "Follow the Love"--

--when I attended an LDS Sunday worship service soon after that, I was stunned, because I genuinely did find that Love--after all, New Testament Scripture tells us that "God IS Love"--but, due to fears surrounding the Book of Mormon, among a few other things, that I'd picked up from other Christians, I balked, and never continued on with learning about the LDS, let alone joining it--

--however, I can see, by now, how God has been trying to get through to me, trying to cut through that terrible, ingrained fear of anything that seems to contradict what many of the mainstream Christian Church's teach--because, most Christians speak of God's Love for mankind--yet, they live on fear of God--most Christians can quote the Scripture in which it states, "God is Love"--yet, they demonstrate that they live in a state of constant fear that He is always angry at them, and at the world, in general--

--most Christians can quote the words from Scripture which tell us that we must trust God, the way a child trusts his own father--and come to God as trusting as little children of their father--yet, scratch the surface of most Christians, and what I've very sadly found is such fear of God, and fear of not adhering to every 'jot and tittle' of His Word, that they demonstrate the fact that trusting in God, as their loving heavenly Father, is about the last thing they are actually doing--

--and, it was genuine love, shown between fellow believers in Christ--the true 'Love of Christ', that is spoken of by other Christians, yet seemingly never demonstrated, or actually practiced, to a great enough degree--that was missing in whatever denomination I investigated, as I'd tried to find the one place that God wished me to be, within in His earthly family--

--and, because Mormon's believe in, and trust in, Jesus, to be the Son of God, and their Lord and Savior--and, believe the very basics taught by 'mainstream' Christianity, concerning His teachings, and even about our salvation through believing in, and trusting in, Jesus Christ, alone--to me that simply spells it out fairly plainly--Mormons ARE Christians--

--they DO follow Christ--plus--they believe in obeying His commandments to us, not merely leaving them to exist as words, alone, giving them merely "lip service"--they literally "put their money where their mouth is", so to speak, and actually practice following Christ Jesus by obeying His commandments to us, through this life--and, on into the rest of eternity--so, how is that not being a Christian?! And, how is that not "sound doctrine"?
Thanks, again, for a great article.

To say that Satan is not the Brother of Christ is to say that there is a power out there as great or greater than God (The Father) who could have created Satan. Are all the offspring of God: Christ, Us, Satan somehow related because we are the offspring of the Father? Yes, and because that is so, we are Brothers and Sisters.

To say that Satan is not the Brother of Christ is to say that there is a power out there as great or greater than God (The Father) who could have created Satan. Are all the offspring of God: Christ, Us, Satan somehow related because we are the offspring of the Father? Yes, and because that is so, we are Brothers and Sisters.

Where in the Book of Mormon does it say Christ was born in Jerusalem, or did you find that on an Anti-Mormon website?... Joseph I belive did not come up with the "More good" ring as well.

Also, as far as Jesus and Satan being spirit brothers: If God (father not son) created all that is contained in the earth and the heavens, both angel, deamon etc... Then he must have created Satan. Well, Jesus was the first born of the father right? So, subsequently all that was created after, you, me, satan, are we not all creations of God and could be labled Brother and Sister? To say that God (father not son) didn't create Satan is to say that Satan or another power as great as God is out there and capable of creating. So in the sense that God is the creater, omnipotent, and creater of all things is to say that Jesus, us, and Satan are all God's creations, or brothers and sisters.....

I can put you out of your misery and quandry as to why mainstream Protestant churches say you're not Christians: they should be defining it down to your not being "Biblical Christians". There- it's solved and we all agree with Joseph Smith that you have another gospel, another Jesus, and another salvation.
It has nothing to do with that tired excuse of persecution, which, yes we all experienced. It has only do to with your beliefs. Period. You cannot call Jesus the spirit brother of Satan and ever dream of being called Biblical. The Christ of the Bible created everything, including angels and demons. The book of Colossians devotess its entire message to the theme of Christ's superiority above angels and all other created things. You cannot be the sibling of the entity you created.
Unfortunately, instead of looking at the text to determine if your doctrines are Biblical, you simply put up an undefined statement that we're all God's children. No Biblical denomination believes that the demons are God's offspring in any stretch of the imagination,

I continue to pray that the truly sincere, who want the truth, will listen for Christ's voice, search His Words for truth, and come out of your organization.... Not because you aren't a wonderful group of industrious people... But because like wonderful, industrious, moral Muslims, Jews, Hindus, or pagans, you do not believe in the Jesus of the Bible.

By the way, your Book of Mormon states that He was born in Jerusalem, not Bethlehem. You run from all unbiblical teachings, change them when necessary and expect the world to look the other way. I was LDS for 35 years and I know exactly what was and is taught. I would have more respect for all Mormons if they would simply stick to the message of their founder: All of us are wrong, our Bible is untrustworthy, and ALL of our professors and pastors are wrong." How would he feel to discover that today his thousands of references to "the Mormon people" have been quelled by his followers and told not to refer to his followers as "Mormons">

Joseph's definition of the word Mormon: "more good". You certainly are a church of change and you are nothing close to the church he "restored" or organized. You even changed God's words in the Book of Mormon to read that the Lamanites will NOT become "white and delightsome", but "pure and delightsome" when they accept Christ. You poor, lost souls. I pray you open your hearts and eyes to the real Jesus and you will truly find peace.

As a member of the Church, I sincerely appreciate this article and how it is written. I was not born in the church and as for my background I attended many other churches before becoming a member. I'm just truly amazed just how closed minded others are about our christian beliefs.
Thank you.

I appreciate the article, and find it right on. Also, I'm glad I know enough Evangelical Christians that I know NOT to judge them ALL by some of the negative posts here. There is even to be found a link of the Romney web site to "EvangelicalsforMitt" .

fyi- some corrections of only a FEW of the MAJOR distortions of our faith. LDS women had the vote before any other state. Joseph Smith campaigned on a platform of freeing the slaves. The revelation that all worthy male members could receive the priesthood came NOT under the pressure of the civil rights movement, but well after it. The Bible says in several places, even with Jesus quoting it "ye are gods, unto whom the scriptures came" and in Job 1:6 you find Lucifer INCLUDED among the sons of God. The council in heaven had ALL of us there, not just those mentioned. The Mountain Meadows Massacre (a HUGE tragedy!) happened at a time that the US had sent an ARMY to eliminate LDS- without any warning, (this is a MUCH larger story than can be explained here), and was NOT done with the knowledge of the prophet but it seems that possibly by number of people killed, it might be considered at least less of a tragedy than the Crusades which the Popes TOTALLY approved!!

The bottom line is that --- it is by Romneys deeds, record, that he can be known-- and the other candidates too. Comparing records (in context!), their plans on the issues is RIGHT, name calling, distortions of records etc is NOT.

also- I saw it got acceptably printed by the press that Huckabee spoke to over 100 pastors (who were then to go speak to how many people??) pleading with them to "redeem (some take this to mean PAYINY)the vote" at the first of Dec. and gets paid $25,000 to give sermons **while** running for pres. (which is NOT counted against his candidacy $) but this is NOT apparently seen as a problem by the press, but when some Romney supporters went to see if through BYU alumni- they might check to find supporters- there was a cry of FOUL in the press, and watchers were staked outside of the church headquarters to see if any Romney people went in! Double standard???? Oh, YEA!

When you look at the # of declared voters for faith, and the number in the state it looks like there should have been MORE Evangelicals for Huckabee and for Mitt to get such a percentage at ALL is quite amazing! He actually did VERY WELL!

Well, I'm praying that the BEST CANDIDATE (notice I didn't say "Man"-- though I can't stand Hillary) is elected president, and I am working to support Romney! Go MITT!!!!

Hi. Sorry for my english. Happy New Year!!!!!
Good Luck!

I think think this article should run in every newspaper in the country. Very well written, and expresses the ultimate sentiment that a persons religion is a personal and private thing and should not be the basis of political discussion.

Hello everybody,
Is everything fine? What's going on?

I go to a conservative Christian University and I am also a Latter Day Saint (Mormon), I take religion courses and included is the History of Christianity. In this course we learn of the Councils in particular the first Nicean Council and it seems to me this is the largest difference between Mormons and mainstream Christianity. In the first Council of Nicea there was a dispute between Arius and Athanasius over the nature of the Son and his relationship to the father. Arius said they are separate and the Son is not divine, Athanasius won the debate and we all know what he belives because it is the Trinity.

Anyway, my point is this, in going to chapel three times a week on campus and going to the Christian courses I find that there is so much more in common with Mormons and Mainstream Christianity than there is not in common. I didn't get this off some scumball Anti-Mormon website, I know it first hand.

I thought Romney was running for President?

Why would he have to explain why he is a member of a particular church? No one else is having to explain what church they belong to? This is nothing but prejudice! A person that would say they won't vote for a proven leader because of his religion only proves that person is very narrow minded.

No one has expounded on what type of man he is.
Clean background, well educated, shows class, has dignity, has a very nice family, and has succeeded at everything he has done. But success breeds jealousy from other people.

Now- about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. No one has touched on the humanitarian efforts that goes forth from this very church. Members tithe "willing" . No plate is passed around during service, or during a funeral service. Members also donate to this very Humanitarian Fund . They are very well known to be the first "organized" group to show up on the scence of disasters. Sounds very Christian to me.

Young Men/Women that will donate 2 years/1.5 years of their young adult life to teach what they passionatly believe in, sounds like an act of Christ and his followers. No they are not paid, and their families support them on their own.

No secrets- earnestly seek and learn, and then you will find the truth. But if you have hate in your heart you will have your preconceived notions-
There is no arguing with the anti-mormons, and there is no use in even arguing with them or even acknowlding them... I think we have only scratched the surface of the anti-mormons, which is very sad. Seems to me the only ones that get offended are the anti-mormons.

Here is a question for those that claim so called LDS secrecy is offending (which is false, LDS religion has nothing to hide)... Then why do you not disclose your name on here, what is up with these made up screen names? Sounds very secretive to me!

Dear Friends:

Just a thought regarding the comment on the Bible, only the Bible, no other revelation aside from the Bible, etc.

I believe the Bible itself speaks of other books or writings in addition to the 39 books in the Old Testament and the 27 in the New Testament that we are familiar with . . Apparently these writings were lost over the years and didn't make it to our day . .

I don't believe it was ever our Father in Heaven's intention to place a big, final "period" at the end of the Bible, after inspiring John to write on the Island of Patmos/The Book of Revelation.

Why is it difficult to accept that God can inspire people from different lands to write and record their dealings with God? According to The Book of Mormon, when Christ visited the ancient inhabitants of America following his death and crucifiction in the Old World, he told them that there were "still others" who he had yet to visit and reveal himself to . . the islands of the sea, and other lands, etc.

In short, I guess if you have trouble with Christ visiting ancient America, you would find it pretty hard to believe that as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we also believe that Christ visited other lands . .

We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

Supermanos and others with questions/comments about the Book of Mormon and who read these 314 comments and make it all the way to this one; Please do, if you really are searching for truth, read the Bible and the Book of Mormon and then with an open heart pray to God while pondering the truths you've read. God has promised us if we ask we shall recieve. I want to ensure I'm clear in this, that my words are meant for those really searching for truth, if your desire is to bash, or slander this doesn't apply to you until your heart changes.

In my quest for truth and understanding it's very clear that the Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ! In our day when Christianity is disputed and when the principles of the gospel taught by the Savior himself are eroded; the Book of Mormon and the teachings of the prophets therein go hand in hand with the Bible and as mentioned stand as a witness of Jesus Christ and the teachings taught in the Bible! The gospel that I have learned through The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has helped me to improve and progress towards being a better Christian and I hope other sincere seekers of the truth can hear the truth about the gospel as much or more than the false things shared.

-BDC

Mormonism is it christianity, I think not. Even thouh they say that they go by scripture in actuality they do not. they add and they subtract stuff to the sciptures and place guidelines on them which causes the scriptures to contradict itself. In John 1:1 it states that in the begining was the word and the word was God. Also in the bible it basically states that anything that is added or subtracted to scripture, (meaning the Holy Bible which is the absoulte truth).or anyone who does it will be destroyed (Duteronomy 4:2-3). Also in (Revelation 22:18-19) it says the same account. The bible should be our only source of truth NOT THE BOOK OF MORMON WHICH COMPLETELY CONFUSES AND CONTRADICTS WHAT THE BIBLE SAY.
But the Holy Bible is the supreme source of knowlege.

I have read through many of the comments written about my faith and feel badly about the many misconceptions, especially towards women. I'm just a simple member, trying to live my religion, but I would like to comment. In fact, I'm a divorced member of the LDS church due to abuse. There are good and bad people among all religions, some choose to live their religion, some don't. However, contrary to many of your beliefs about Mormon women, I would like to explain what it's really like to be a woman in this religion.

I have been treated with the deepest kindness and tender respect by the leaders in my church, and by other gentlemen in my faith. I am loved and treated as an equal or lifted far up above their equal. I am supported and my needs are served well in fact beyond my needs with true Christian serve and care. When I went through my divorce, my church leaders were my kindest, and greatest support, full of love and compassion and willingness to help in any way they could. There are people in the world who do not follow the pattern I mentioned, including in our church, but that is not the norm, don't listen to them, listen to the members of the chruch who love their religion.

As far as being Christian, I am Christian to the fullest extent and meaning of that word. What others believe I am has little effect on my belief. I love Jesus Christ, I honor Him, and I servie Him, He is my religion, He is my way of life and worship, come what may.

As far a a cult, I can't even comprehend or understand how anyone could ever come up with such crazy idea. I am at all times free to act anyway I choose, go anywhere I choose, say anything I want, think anyway I want to think, do whatever I want, and I am not only allowed, but respected and encouraged to so do. My leaders encourage and counsel, then I am free to take that counsel and use it however I want to. No one forces me to do anything or is angry if I choose to do something different, hense, I am a divorced member of the church in good standing, and loved by my leaders.

There is so much that is beautiful and good about our religion, how sad it is that people want to make it look otherwise. I love being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints.
Sincerely,

Well scripted message to all those interested in understanding Mormon beliefs. It is interesting to me that most people want to ask their Catholic, Protestant, or Evangelical freinds and pastors about Mormons. Michael Otterson offers the most profound doctrine to all who really want to understand the LDS church: IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE MORMONS, IT IS PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO ASK A MORMON. Regardless of what is said about Mormons they will continue to flourish. Why? Because the time that you spend bickering about their non-christian views, they are preaching the good news of Christ. HMMMM no wonder it is the fastest growing christian denomination in the US.

Friends,

I hope this insight will shed a little more light on the issue of salvation by GRACE AND WORKS:

C.S. Lewis said something to the effect that arguing over GRACE AND WORKS, would be just as silly as arguing over which blade of the scissors was more important or essential . .

Each is important, they work together! Here's how I look at it:

Of course we are saved by GRACE . . The infinite or universal atonement wrought by the Savior in Gethsemane and culminated on the Cross, is something we could never do for ourselves . .

However, at the same time, of course we're also saved by our WORKS . . What manner of men ought ye to be? . . . To become even as I AM . . means we must walk in his footsteps . . not at an easy task . . and of course, none of us will reach perfection in this life . . but we should look at each day as an opportunity to get as far down that path as we can in this life!

I'm happy for the invitation to share with others what I believe. I'm an ordinary member of the LDS Church. We are a Christian denomination that believes wholeheartedly in Christ and some of the best exemplars I've seen where it comes on living by the precepts of Jesus. Before I became a member there, I was of a Protestant denomination. Since then I've come along way in my "Degrees of Christianity". Though I'm not perfect, I'm ten times better than I ever was. Here's to a better life, and a more Christ focused faith. I salute all you LDS folk out there. Best Wishes,

LAW

RE: Rick's comment of 12/31 @ 12:04am,
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"So, in other words, let's not get offended."
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AMEN!!!
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Here are a couple quotes in that light from Brigham Young and some others:
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"If your neighbors talk about you, and you think that they do wrong in speaking evil of you, do not let them know that you ever heard a word, and conduct yourselves as if they always did right, and it will mortify them, and they will say, 'We'll not try this game any longer.'"
-- Brigham Young
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"Who ever takes offense when offense is not intended is a fool -- and who ever takes offense when offense is intended is a damned fool."
-- Brigham Young
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"Never argue with a child... of any age!"
-- manaen
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"Bitterness is the poison someone drinks in the hope that someone else will die."
-- Dr. Laura Schlesinger, 5/2000
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19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
-- James, James 1:19-20
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"By the way, let us not -- as some do -- make the mistake of thinking the chips we place on our own shoulders are crosses."
- Neal A. Maxwell, GenCon 4/2001
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"If you do not forgive, you give away your future: tomorrow is held hostage to yesterday."
-- Stephen R. Covey, fireside at Los Angeles Stake, 25 May 2005
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"If you follow the prophet, you will arrive where he is going."
-- Spencer W. Kimball
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"We cannot have the companionship of the Holy Ghost -- the medium of individual revelation -- ir we are in transgression or *if we are angry*."
-- Dallin H. Oaks, "The Lord's Way"
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"Wise is the man who says all that needs to be said,but not all that could be said."
-- Marvin J. Ashton, GenCon 10/1976
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"No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse."
-- Jeffrey R. Holland, GenCon 3/2007
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"An appetite grows by what it feeds on."
-- Albert D. Richardson
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"The LORD is my light and mu salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
-- Psalms 27:1
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12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 BUT THE NATURAL MAN RECEIVETH NOT THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD: FOR THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM: NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.
-- Paul, 1 Cor 2:12-14
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"My grandfather used to say to his family, 'There is a line of demarcation, well defined, between the Lord's territory and the devil's. If you will stay on the Lord's isde of the line you will be under his influence and will have no desire to do wrong, but if you croww to the devil's side of the line one inch, you are in the temper's power and, if he is successful, you will not be able to think or even reason properly because you will have lost the spirit of the Lord.'"
-- George Albert Smith
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"Constant kindness can accomplish much. As the sun makes ice melt, kindness causes misunderstanding, mistrust, and hostility to evaporate."
-- Albert Schweitzer
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"We must keep the bridge of mercy in good repair. Each of us surely will need to cross it."
-- H. Wallace Goddard
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"One of the greatest indicators of our own spiritual maturity is revealed in how we respond to the weaknesses, the inexperience, and the potentially offensive actions of others."
-- David A. Bednar, GenCon 10/2006
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"Forgiveness of others for wrongs—imaginary or real—often does more for the forgiver than for the forgiven. That person who has not forgiven a wrong or an injury has not yet tasted of one of the sublime enjoyments of life. The human soul seldom reaches such heights of strength or nobility as when it removes all resentments and forgives error or malice. No one can be classed as a true follower of the Savior who is not in the process of removing from his heart and mind every feeling of ill will, bitterness, hatred, envy, or jealousy toward another."
-- H. Burke Peterson, GenCon 10/1983
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"When we fully extend the joy of forgiveness to others, then it fully will be ours."
-- Dieter F. Uchdorf, GenCon 4/2007
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"The life of a saint is not simply a personal perfecting, it is also a factor in the entire scheme of earth's redemption. No one can be saved alone, by himself or herself, unassisted or *unassisting others*. The weight of our influence must be either for good or harm, be an aid or an injury to the work of human regeneration, and as we assume responsibilities, form ties, enter into covenants, beget children, accumulate families, so does the weight of our influence, so does its extent broaden and deepen."
-- John Taylor
[So don't antagonize that antagonists or otherwise become a barrier to them finding the peace and healing of the restored gospel]
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"I've wept in the night
For the shortness of sight
That to somebody's need made blind.
But, I never have yet
Felt a tinge of regret
For being a little too kind."
-- Thomas S. Monson
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"Evil multiplies by the response it seeks to provoke, and when I return evil for evil, I engender corruption myself. The chain of evil is broken for good when a pure and loving heart absorbs a hurt and forbears to hurt in return. Deep within every child of God the Light of Christ resides, guiding, comforting, purifying the heart that turns to him."
-- Dennis Rasmussen, "The Lord's Question," pp. 63-64
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"Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. [...] Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
-- Paul, 2 Tim 2:24-26
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"A man filled with the love of God is not content with blessing his family alone, but ranges through the whole world, anxious to bless the whole human race."
-- Joseph Smith, Jr., TPJS, p. 174

I think it's a mistake that members of the Church be offended when told that they are not Christian. Being a member myself, when I am told that, I perfectly understand that under my non-mormon friend's definition of being a Christian includes believing in the Trinity doctrine, and the doctrine of being saved by grace alone without the need for ordinances to access that grace.

That is their definition of Christianity. Therefore, under that definition, we are not Christian.

We would feel strange if someone thought and believed thoroughly that they were Christian, and yet under OUR standards we would believe them not to be. But we would feel perfectly fine in our belief of them not being Christian, since WE know (for us) that we are in the right.

So, in other words, let's not get offended.
Christian or not in whatever definition, we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; and that is enough for me. I know for myself that I am definitely a Christian, so what else matters?

ANSWER: YES
Consider the name of the "Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints"
WOW! A chance to speak my mind freely.I'm amazed at the multitudes searching for truth in religion that turn a blind eye when it is presented. Sorta like the the scribes and pharasees of JESUS' time up to today who still deny who he is.
I was a gradeschool Catholic, highschool Prespitarian/Baptist,who married and divorced Lutheran,not to mention times of athiesm. After spending 34 years seeking the Truth, I was overwhelmed when it was presented to me.
Yes, we are Christians, to the fullest degree. Ask any member, better yet, get on your own knees and SINCERLY ask Jesus, the Holy ghost will testify to you the truth.

John Young Chicago

I pray our country can remain free, free for individuals to worship as they please. Free from persecution for religious beliefs. What John F. Kennedy said is admirable and is as true now as when he delivered his address. As a Latter-day Saint, I feel somewhat persecuted when the faith that I have loved and been blessed by is called unkind names and misrepresented. As this article said, to find out about the LDS faith, ask a member. It is a wonderful church, with uplifting beliefs. I believe it is from God. I have never seen anything as a member to make me feel otherwise. I am very happy, though, to allow others to worship as they please with respect for their beliefs and the good they do. I am very happy to share my beliefs with those interested in searching for truth.

Thank you for your insights and correct depictions of my faith. The points you made were very well said. Paragraph eight made all the difference to me. I hope that thos who are opposed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will find acceptance in their hearts once this point is understood. I also appreciated the piece of Senator John Kennedy's address you included. God Bless America!

Sorry about the 3 similar postings. I did not see them listed directly after I posted them, so I there was a snafu and tried again and again. I apologize, this was my first blog.

From reading the previous postings, it seems as minds are made up whether or not Mormons are a cult, whether or not they are Christian. Definitions are flying all over the place. The reason for this discussion seems to be the bid for President by Mitt Romney. I recently read a book about his take over of the Olympics and was duely impressed by his attention to detail, willing to make hard decisions, work with people, choosing the right people for the plan to turn it around. He did not want to take on the endeavor, but felt it was for the good of the country to have a great Olympics. After saying yes to the offer, much of the debt had been underestimated and revenue overestimated. There were legal problems, logistic problems, advertising problems, public relation problems, not to mention the added security to be solved on a timetable for the world to see. I've heard that some people won't vote for a woman, an African-American, or a Mormon. Let's get past all this nonsense. I'm glad I live in a country that has freedom of religion or if you choose, freedom to have no religion.

From reading the previous postings, I can see many minds are made up as to whether Mormons are Christians. The interest in this question is due to the bid for president of Mitt Romney. I can honestly say I am very impressed with Mitt after reading about how far in debt the Olympics were, how underestimated the debt was when he took over, how he organized a turn around and got members of his team committed to making the sacrifices necessary to get the money, logistics, and people on board for a successful Olympics. I am saddened to think that so many people are only looking at his religion as a basis for their voting. Just as I am sad to think that one would look at Hillary as someone not to vote for because she if female, or Obama because is his African-American. I have my set of beliefs and look for the good in all whether they believe likewise or not.

From reading the previous postings, I can see many minds are made up as to whether Mormons are Christians. The interest in this question is due to the bid for president of Mitt Romney. I can honestly say I am very impressed with Mitt after reading about how far in debt the Olympics were, how underestimated the debt was when he took over, how he organized a turn around and got members of his team committed to making the sacrifices necessary to get the money, logistics, and people on board for a successful Olympics. I am saddened to think that so many people are only looking at his religion as a basis for their voting. Just as I am sad to think that one would look at Hillary as someone not to vote for because she if female, or Obama because is his African-American. I have my set of beliefs and look for the good in all whether they believe likewise or not.

I think this was a great article. In the end, we all need to be tolerant of each other's beliefs and do what we feel is right, whatever that may be.

Religious intolerance will always exist, as we can easily see from the comments listed here. What I am glad for is countries that still allow us to speak about this freely and believe what we want to believe.

That is exactly what Article of Faith 11 is all about.

Matthew

The main difference in LDS theology and orthodox Christianity is between a procreated Jesus (of Heavenly Mother and Father) and a Jesus who is the Eternal God. Both cannot be true. One Jesus is false and the other is true. You may also find the chapter on the American Eden in the free downloadable book ENSIGN enlightening. There is much about the LDS Church that recent converts do not know about. See www.ldslearning.org/ensign.pdf for an indepth analysis.

Sincerely,

Vince

Thanks you for one of the most honest views I have read about my church through the news media. It is refreshing to read something by someone who has done an honest research of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Why should people show a disregard or condom ones religion and belief when they also believe in that same Jesus of Nazareth? There is no reason we supposedly live in a country that believes in the freedom of religion.
Bill E.

Another thought about the LDS view on GRACE: much of the confusion found in LDS Mom's comments was discussed and resolved in the article "Salvation: By Grace or by Works?", published in the Church's official magazine, "The Ensign," April, 1981, p. 17. It's available here:
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=9773fc3157a6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

Who cares if other people don't think Mormons are "Christian" enough for them? Any "real Christian" would acknowledge that only Christ can judge them anyway.

Are Mormons (ie members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) Christians? Ask Christ.

The Mormons I know are the most Christian of all Christians that I have met.

As the race question was clarified to me, the Mormon prophet had been praying on the question for months when he received a confirmation to allow all worthy men to receive the priesthood. They listen for God to reveal his wishes....seems pretty enlightened.

It seems many other churches just voted on racial change or created black congregations to keep them separate....these denominations seem more like social clubs with a religious twist for which they earn millions $$. If God spoke to them I doubt they would listen or want to hear what he had to say.

well written article! God and his son Jesus Christ will judge all of us, the opinion of others matters very little.

Thank you to the LDS for their many acts of service to my community...for their wonderful example as noted by President Kennedy in 1960, they continue strong today as I read of their 1 millionth Brazilian member just last month.

RMI, my apologies for putting your name on the heading of my message on December 27 at 11:26. I was addressing the message to you and posted before I realized that it looks like you wrote it. Sorry.

RMI:

You will notice that there have been two posters that have responded to LDS Mom, RMI. Frankly, I am not certain LDS Mom is who she purports to be. Just a hunch.

While I agree with Satan and Jesus being spirit brothers, it is nevertheless merely a derivative doctrine, if you will. However, to say that it is "taught" in the temple inaccurately implies that it is a central theme and teaching, which it is not. LDS Mom really should know these things, if she doesn't already.

When she says, "Satan is not a fallen angel, but a fallen son of God. ", she doesn't add to her credibility either. An angel IS a spirit son or daughter of God by definition. They are BOTH THE SAME. The only reason to try to distinguish the "fallen angel" definition from the "fallen son of God" definition in this context would be to imply parity of the Lord and Satan by the gentle spin of a phrase (i.e. Jesus is the Son of God in the flesh, and Satan is a [spirit] son of God, therefore Mormons believe they are equivalent.).

Another point: LDS Mom says: "The principal of Grace plays a minimal role in our doctrines. "

On the contrary, our doctrines are absolutely dependent on it. Without the atoning blood of Christ, we have nothing. See my comment above on this subject.

In the end, I would agree with LDS Mom that we are different from orthodox Christianity. I welcome and am unashamed of our true differences, but I won't defend straw men and caricatures.

You will notice that there have been two posters that have responded to LDS Mom, RMI. Frankly, I am not certain LDS Mom is who she purports to be. Just a hunch.

While I agree with Satan and Jesus being spirit brothers, it is nevertheless merely a derivative doctrine, if you will. However, to say that it is "taught" in the temple inaccurately implies that it is a central theme and teaching, which it is not. LDS Mom really should know these things, if she doesn't already.

When she says, "Satan is not a fallen angel, but a fallen son of God. ", she doesn't add to her credibility either. An angel IS a spirit son or daughter of God by definition. They are BOTH THE SAME. The only reason to try to distinguish the "fallen angel" definition from the "fallen son of God" definition in this context would be to imply parity of the Lord and Satan by the gentle spin of a phrase (i.e. Jesus is the Son of God in the flesh, and Satan is a [spirit] son of God, therefore Mormons believe they are equivalent.).

Another point: LDS Mom says: "The principal of Grace plays a minimal role in our doctrines. "

On the contrary, our doctrines are absolutely dependent on it. Without the atoning blood of Christ, we have nothing. See my comment above on this subject.

In the end, I would agree with LDS Mom that we are different from orthodox Christianity. I welcome and am unashamed of our true differences, but I won't defend straw men and caricatures.

RMI, LDS Mom, et al.

LDS Mom is correct that we do not pray to Christ. However, hers is a limited definition of worship, and that bears saying. Pres. Hinckley has recently and very earnestly proclaimed that he worships Christ, as do we all, as the Saviour and Redeemer of the world. There is no other way or means by which mankind can be saved. Indeed, in the exclusivity of our recognition of Christ as the Way, Truth, and Life, we are peculiar.

LDS Mom is also misguided about Grace, as Manaen and someone else have pointed out. LDS Mom, the passage you quote from 2 Nephi reads "for it is by Grace that we are saved, after all we can do." This is pretty darn clear. And the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and prophetic teaching are full of the doctrine of Grace.

The passage from 2 Nephi might be read as suggesting that our works somehow qualify us for Grace, or it might be read as meaning that ultimately, whatever our works might be, it is by Grace that we are saved. I think it means both: we are expected to do good works as testament to Christ's doctrine and message, and as a witness that we follow him. But none of these things can ever overcome our separation from Him--that comes, freely, through his Atonement (Expiation) and Grace.

Now I don't go on about this to mainstream us. I agree with LDS Mom, as I've said before, that the judgment of other groups is ultimately meaningless. Ours is a unique and sophisticated theology, and it is both because it is the doctrine of Christ revealed once again by divine authority and divinely called apostolic witness and prophetic revelation.

RMI, take your time.

To: RMI--

Yes, I disagree with your assessment.

The items presented by LDS Mom are true, but they are far from being accurate! As has been pointed out, there are many salient details missing.

LDS Mom:

Thank you for your post.
(December 25, 2007 2:36 AM - couldn't you sleep? just trying to catch a glimpse of SC - Oh, I know, you were up putting out the presents - good for you).

Anyway, I watch and read this post from time to time (in fact I owe Jon Penny a post - sorry Jon, yours requires a lot of effort from this old grey-beard at a very busy time of year for me. Please do not give up; I haven't).

My comment will be short (and sweet - sometimes I am not so sweet, as you may have read).

You have told the truth about being a(n) LDS and their beliefs as well as or better than anyone that I've read (a high complement - there being so many very good posts)on this blog. You are forthright, confident and make no effort to lull or sell you reader - very refreshing.

Anyone out there disagree with me? Let them speak up.

LDS Mom:

I wanted to take exception with one point you made. Just because our Father in Heaven requires us to keep his commandments does not mean that our acts of obedience and faithfulness are sufficient to earn our salvation. We are not trading items of equal value. Becoming a new creature, becoming like our Father in Heaven, becoming a god, is not an even trade for our best efforts at righteousness here, yet the Lord does all of those things as an act of love for our obedience.

It is true that the Lord REQUIRES us to exercise faith in Him, repent of our sins, be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost, continue faithful and receive all of our covenants. It is true that He REQUIRES our faithfulness in keeping his commandments. However, aside from all of that, there is nothing that anyone can do now or ever that could justly merit the gift of the atoning blood of the Savior.

It is His atonement that is the engine behind all of our covenants of baptism and in the temple. It is by His blood that I have hope of being enabled to be married to my wife for time and all eternity. Indeed, our faithfulness cut off from the source of our salvation is dead.

By faithfulness to our covenants, the Lord bestows gifts (grace) line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little, in such a way as to change our souls to become like Christ and enable us to greater obedience.

I understand that sometimes we talk about working out our salvation in fear and trembling or even earning our salvation. However, whenever we speak of these things, we are only speaking of doing what the Lord has asked of us and required of us. We are not speaking of the relative merits of our acts of obedience to save ourselves. Some who would twist our beliefs withhold this information from those they try to sway away from our faith.

When you say that we are different from most protestants and evangelicals though, you are absolutely correct. To them, salvation is a one-event salvation(i.e. the moment I first believed was when I was saved.) To us, salvation is a living breathing active process. Obedience is offered and grace is given in return all along the way. It begins with belief, through which we are impelled to action and repentance, which leads us to the point that we are willing to enter a covenant with the Father that we are willing to keep His commandments (through the Lord's authorized servants). By entering into and keeping those covenants, we prove ourselves worthy to receive the next endowment of grace. For instance, the next endowment of grace when we are baptized is the reception of the Holy Ghost, which gift begins the sanctification of our souls. This progresses through the ordinances of the temple, where greater endowments of grace are given. This process does not end until we are like the Father and Christ. In this manner, we end up being saved FROM our sins, which is different from being saved IN our sins.

This column is as clear and succinct as I have read on this subject. I am looking forward to the other two rules of discussion as Swedish theologian Krister Stendahl, Lutheran Bishop of Stockholm has formed them. I wish this column could be revealed to the general public by our various media who claim to keeping the public informed.

FO

LDSMOM wrote, 12/25 @ 2:36am,
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“We believe Jesus died for us, but we certainly don't worship Him.”
.
And
.
“We also do not believe we are saved by grace - another truly mainstream christian view..... Mormons believe you are saved "after all you can do" ... there is a huge push to become "perfected" and "work out one's salvation". The principal of Grace plays a minimal role in our doctrines.”
.
This appears to be a troll posing as an LDS, although it could be a real member who still is growing in understanding.
.
As for the first comment cited, our First Article of Faith says “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. Each of them is deity and we worship Jesus exactly because “We believe Jesus died for us” and was resurrected and paid the price of our sins for us. True, we pray to the Father in the Son’s name, but we recognize the Son’s deity as well.
.
This is evident in The Book of Mormon, Alma 34:8-16. Please note how synonymous “mercy” in these verses is with “grace” – what is “mercy” herein but God’s grace???
8 And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.
11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay.
12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.
13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.
14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.
15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.
16 And thus mercy [i.e. *GRACE*] can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.
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As for the extraordinary comment that LDS doctrine is that we are not saved by grace – I’m astounded by it. Let alone that those in the Telestial kingdom self-evidently are saved by grace alone -- they have no good works and yet receive a degree of glory (these people will be *saved* from what have befallen them) without them -- the creation, the atonement for our sins, the resurrection, the promptings of the Holy Ghost to guide us, our free agency to follow/disobey those promptings, priesthood blessings, we receive everything in God’s whole plan of exaltation by His GRACE – *none* of it was by justice, only by God’s grace.
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Here are some passages from LDS scriptures that teach this:
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2 Nephi 10:24
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that IT IS ONLY IN AND THROUGH THE GRACE OF GOD THAT YE ARE SAVED.
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Jacob 4:7
Nevertheless, the Lord God showeth us our weakness that we may know that it is BY HIS GRACE, AND HIS GREAT CONDESCENSIONS UNTO THE CHILDREN OF MEN, THAT WE HAVE POWER TO DO THESE THINGS.
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The Bible Dictionary bound into our standard works says this in the section on “Grace,”
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“A word that occurs frequently in the New Testament, especially in the writings of Paul. The main idea of the word is divine means of help or strength, given through the bounteous mercy and love of Jesus Christ.
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“It is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, made possible by his atoning sacrifice, that mankind will be raised in immortality, every person receiving his body from the grave in a condition of everlasting life. It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.
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“Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Ne. 25: 23). It is truly the grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible. This principle is expressed in Jesus’ parable of the vine and the branches (John 15: 1-11). See also John 1: 12-17; Eph. 2: 8-9; Philip. 4: 13; D&C 93: 11-14. “
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And this leads us to the LDS view of faith, grace, and works. We could not even do any works without God’s grace giving us these opportunities. But – we *never* earn any of God’s blessings. Rather, by following His plan of grace, we can become – as the Holy Ghost converts/heals our souls (another act of grace) – the kind of beings to whom God will *give*, as an act of grace, salvation and exaltation.
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One of our modern Apostles, Dallin H. Oaks, explained this recently in his General-Conference talk on “The Challenge to Become” (http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-138-15,00.html). In it, he said,
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“From such teachings we conclude that the Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts--what we have *done*. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts--what we have *become*. It is not enough for anyone just to go through the motions. The commandments, ordinances, and covenants of the gospel are not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan that shows us how to become what our Heavenly Father desires us to become.
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“A parable illustrates this understanding. A wealthy father knew that if he were to bestow his wealth upon a child who had not yet developed the needed wisdom and stature, the inheritance would probably be wasted. The father said to his child:
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“’All that I have I desire to give you--not only my wealth, but also my position and standing among men. That which I have I can easily give you, but that which I am you must obtain for yourself. You will qualify for your inheritance by learning what I have learned and by living as I have lived. I will give you the laws and principles by which I have acquired my wisdom and stature. Follow my example, mastering as I have mastered, and you will become as I am, and all that I have will be yours.’
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“This parable parallels the pattern of heaven. The gospel of Jesus Christ promises the incomparable inheritance of eternal life, the fulness of the Father, and reveals the laws and principles by which it can be obtained.
“We qualify for eternal life through a process of *conversion*. As used here, this word of many meanings signifies not just a convincing but a profound change of nature.”
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Through God’s grace, we can become someone who qualifies for God’s gifts. This is much different from salvation or exaltation by our own works, which would be impossible.
This is the LDS context for scriptures like LDSMOM cited about being saved by grace “after all we can do” (note that even a superficial reading of this verse shows that “all we can do” is insufficient: we still need grace to be saved) and
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Ether 12:27
And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and MY GRACE is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
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and
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Moroni 10:32
Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that BY HIS GRACE YE MAY BE PERFECT IN CHRIST; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
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In my own life, my experiences have shown me the absolute need for God’s grace to receive any joy. A summary of my experiences is available here: http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2582#comment-97137
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I hope this is helpful.

Merry Christmas!!!!!!

I am an active member of the Mormon Church... and I can honestly tell you that LDS do not worship Christ as the Christian world does. No indeed - we openly worship God the Father and not His son Jesus Christ. We pray to God in the name of His son, but Mormons are not taught to pray to Jesus, as the Christian world does. That is what seperates us from the Christian world - the doctrine that we believe God is *not* the same person as Jesus Christ. We believe Jesus died for us, but we certainly don't worship Him. We also believe God was once a man - just as Jesus was a man. He is not a personage of Spirit, but has a human body - glorified and perfect. He had to "work out" his salvation just as others are doing right now. I believe Mormons need to be transparent and stop trying to appear "mainstream".... we simply aren't. To try to fit into the mainstream Christian mold is simply impossible and it also leads to denying key doctrines.

There is also the belief that God speaks thru prophets. Mormons believe in continuing revelation. Joseph smith and his revelations is a huge part of our faith and doctrines. Most of the key doctrines of our church were set forth by Joseph Smith. We do use the bible, but we believe it can be in error. We believe the Book of Mormon to be the most correct of any book , including the Bible. We have a very unique view of heaven - believing in the doctrine of plurality of gods - thus Mormons today believe that we truly can become 'gods'..... and inherit all God has. Radically different then what the Christian world's view of "heaven" is. We also do not believe we are saved by grace - another truly mainstream christian view..... Mormons believe you are saved "after all you can do" ... there is a huge push to become "perfected" and "work out one's salvation". The principal of Grace plays a minimal role in our doctrines.

These are just a few key doctrines that seperate the LDS church from mainstream christianity. I believe it is simply a lie and absurd to try to fit the Mormon Church into mainstream christianity. It is impossible. Our doctrines are too radically different.

By the way, LDS are very proud of these differences and most LDS should defend them in the public arena.

Just thought it would be good to share a perspective from an active member of the LDS church.
Also on a further note on the Romney campaign, Mr. Huckabees question about whether Satan and Jesus were brothers -- LDS would emphatically say YES! They were spirit brothers in the pre-earth life, and Jesus was chosen by God to be the Savior, while satan was cast out of Heaven because he wanted all God's glory and wanted to take away the agency of man. Satan is not a fallen angel, but a fallen son of God. That is a doctrine that is taught in our temples today and is core belief regarding "who" satan is. Mormons who deny this would be in deep disharmony with the Church's doctrines. Just felt like it would be good for an active Mormon to set the "record strait" on that one. Mr. Romney shoud be open and transparent regarding his religious faith and doctrines. There is no doubt that Mormons truly practice a unique form of Christianity, radically different from Christianity today.

Setting the record strait,
LDS MOM

Merry Christmas- Dear Latter-Day Saints

I greet you wherever you may be
as members of a church family
Tonight we pay homage to our Lord.
Born in a stable. Loved and adored.

He who'd been the creator of this earth.
Condescended to a humble birth.
And, thus we have the gift of Christmas.
This the greatest of all enigmas.

His life and death mean so very much.
He calls out to all to heal with His touch.
How grateful we of this church should feel.
We've the fullness, we of Israel.

We've a Latter-Day witness, He lives.
We are blessed with the comfort this gives.
On this glad night we'll lift our voices.
Till the heavens hear and too rejoices.
Based on words from our prophet Gordon B. Hinckley

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

We believe other lands had visits from Christ.
They saw signs in the heavens, they knew His name.
He taught them, they felt His wounds, He dried their eyes.
The Book of Mormon testifies that He came.

We're Christians otherwise nicknamed “The Mormons”.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints-
And our missionaries can teach you lessons.
But, you can read on if you have time constraints...

Facts
Here are some facts to introduce us to you...
The Lord's Church was restored in 1830.
We've priesthood, apostles, and a prophet, too.
Our pioneers frontiered and proved we're sturdy.

We've members in 176 countries
With 13 millions members, we are rising.
We don't smoke, drink alcohol, coffee or teas.
We've unpaid clergy, we serve and pay tithing.

Faith in God
We believe that God is our Heavenly Father.
And we are literally His spirit offspring.
That's why our names start with brother and sister.
And why the gospel has a familiar ring.

We worship our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ .
We try to be like Him, we pray in His name.
Those with priesthood are authorized to baptize.
Through total immersion we're never the same.

Family
Every Monday night's reserved for the family.
Where we'll teach each other, sing, pray and have fun.
We're known for having practiced polygamy.
Biblically restored, then abandoned, now shunned.

As families, we attend Sunday services.
We instruct each other using the scriptures.
In temples we perform sacred ordinances.
That seals families committed to their futures.

Fruits of the Gospel
The Savior said, “By their fruits, ye shall know them.”
For our Lord, we want to be in His image.
To be healthier, we have the Word of Wisdom.
In love, we've a divorce rate below average.

We've shown our excellence in education
Missionaries surpass in the languages,
They're paying their own way, it's not a vacation
With compassion, we serve and share from wages.

This Was Simple and Short
These are a few thoughts, that come straight from the heart.
May these words build a bridge of understanding.
So together we'll rise up and make a new start.
Let's seek for the good, with friendships outstanding.

If you're still wanting to know a little more
Our doors stand wide open, as the Lord calls you.
You're what our missionaries hoped and trained for.
To witness that for man Christ died and lives too.

Poem based on words by Elder Ballard

Excellent article!

Why there are those who would spend time, money and preach rhetoric dedicated to bashing and destroying other's faith is something I will never understand. I encourage you to use your resources more wisely.

I am a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a Christian. I have a personal testimony of Jesus Christ as my Savior and Redeember.

Mormons are hard working people who try to live clean, self-reliant lives, uphold the law of the land, and serve others. I unequivocally state we are not racists nor sexist.

Our Sunday worship services are open to the public. Go in and see for yourselves what we believe and how we worship. The Book of Mormon is about Jesus Christ. Pick up a copy and read it to find out for yourself.

Thank you for this thoughtful article. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) and I am so appreciative of an article that fairly exerts our Christian beliefs. It is comforting to see media bring accurate information to light regarding our commonality of Christian beliefs, rather than a divisive discussion! I am regularly finding common ground with my Christian friends, and even my Jewish friends, as we often discuss our common efforts to live "Christian" standards of kindness, thoughtfulness and conviction to living the Ten Commandments. Thank you for positive approach to this topic!

Thank you for this thoughtful article. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) and I am so appreciative of an article that fairly exerts our Christian beliefs. It is comforting to see media bring accurate information to light regarding our commonality of Christian beliefs, rather than a divisive discussion! I am regularly finding common ground with my Christian friends, and even my Jewish friends, as we often discuss our common efforts to live "Christian" standards of kindness, thoughtfulness and conviction to living the Ten Commandments. Thank you for positive approach to this topic!

While it may be true, and I quote from the article, "I suspect the average American hasn’t been enlightened much about what Latter-day Saints believe and practice".

I think it's safe to say that while the average American may know very little about our beliefs and practices, a growing number of Americans have known, or rubbed shoulders with some member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in some capacity, either in business, school, sports, or in in their community.

I believe that many of them would say that the way LDS Church members live their lives says a great deal about their beliefs and practices.

Cordially,

David L. Drysdale
Las Vegas, Nevada

Great article!!!

Great article!!!

There is a Supreme Authority who is the Final Judge of all things. It is not for man to decide whether or not a church is Christian. We are given the gift of the Holy Ghost to inquire for ourselves, with a sincere and open heart and mind. When you have found your own answer, through unbiased searching, you don't need to defend it, because you will have an undeniable, sure knowledge, regardless of what the pseudo scholars and critics say. "If any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth liberally to all men." (This is in the Bible.) It works! You will not feel the need to criticize the beliefs of those who do not agree. Let others say what they will. Let them label you as they see fit - right or wrong. They have the right to do so. God's great gift to man was the gift of free agency.
You might ask: Does your belief system make you a better person. Does it make you a productive, honorable citizen of the world? To quote a great man: "By their fruits ye shall know them." (This is in the Bible too.)
Dedicated followers of Jesus Christ produce good fruits which will be evident to all who observe them. They will rely on the saving grace of a loving Heavenly Father and the atoning sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son to help them overcome challenges in life and forgive where true repentance has taken place. They will also fiercely protect the precious right of all men to choose for themselves - EVEN IF THEY DISAGREE.
No matter what label you put on them, look at their "fruits" with an open unbiased mind.
I know that Jesus is the Christ, that He lives and loves us and has restored His truths to the earth. He has invited us all to the great feast, the Bread of Life, the Living Waters. Partake!
Thanks.

Manaen,

I am sorry that I have used the CARTOON to ridicule your religion. However, I get the same information from all the resources. Result from the book (Kingdom of Cults), sermons, CARTOON, and other sites. And I realize that you are kept telling me that it’s all lie. Who ever is a liar should be punished.

I want to end this nonsense conversations, it’s just like talking to the Jehovah witness for hours to conclude the subject.

You and I are not in the same page and the conversation will NEVER end; therefore, we should stop. However, I will pray for you my friend that you can see, taste and feel what the Christians are experiencing the SAME God we experienced.

Merry Christmas and happy new year my friend.

Correction to my comment of 12/20 @ 7:42pm:

"which eventually will deflate the other groups and cause their disappearance" is an overstatment. We believe that even while Christ reigns in the Millenium, that the people on the earth will be able to choose to follow His true Church or some other way. In this sense, the other groups won't disappear until the final judgement.

Sang Kim,
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I hope you understand that I say (12/20 @12:15pm) that the cartoons are funny because they do NOT give an accurate picture of the doctrines or history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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I listened to the first couple minutes of Lon's talk. This also was humorous in the way he does NOT accurately picture our beliefs and history. For example, he says that the Church is trying to position itself "alongside" other Christian groups; that we are trying to say that we're just another "nuance" of Christianity. This, of course, is completely wrong: we are not trying to stand next to other Christian groups but to say that Christ's restored gospel, as found in the Church, is the correct center of Christianity.
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This appears to place us next to other Christian groups who also claim to be the correct center of Christianity but that is only because both Christ's restored Church and these other groups are claiming the same space. Our commission from Christ is to preach His gospel(i), to avoid contention(ii), and to allow each person to choose their beliefs(iii). Therefore, we don't try to push other groups from claiming the center of Christianity but we are successful in preaching and inviting their members to join the true center, which eventually will deflate the other groups and cause their disappearance.
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And we do this all in love, with respect for each person's right and ability to believe as they will, and by encouraging them to ask God what is His truth and following the answer that He gives through the Holy Ghost(iv).
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REFERENCES
(i)
Doctrine & Covenents 18:28
And if they desire to take upon them my name with full purpose of heart, they are called to go into all the world to preach my gospel unto every creature.
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Articles of Faith 1:5
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
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(ii)
3 Nephi 11:
28 And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.
29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things ashould be done away.
.
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(iii)
Articles of Faith 1:11
"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
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(iv)
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
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John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, he WILL GUIDE YOU UNTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
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Moroni 10:
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will MANIFEST THE TRUTH OF IT UNTO YOU, BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST.
5 And BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST YE MAY KNOW THE TRUTH OF ALL THINGS.
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Peace!

RMI,
Today I noticed your kind note after my response in the "Inexaustible Treasure" comment section. Thanks. I'll go ahead with a New Testament posting early this Sunday morning assuming all goes well the night before. (I won't have studied up; just like last time it will be from memory over many years of study.) Yes, I am LDS, and am very comfortable with loving and learning from the Bible--a great treasure miraculously preserved by divine Providence for us to enjoy and learn from today. It is for all of us.

http://www.chick.com/catalog/comics/0118.asp
Also, the Enchanter CARTOON.

Hello, Manaen: How are you my friend?

I am glad that you liked the CARTOON http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

Now, here is more for you my friend.
Please listen to Lon’s sermon. http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=15900
Look for Mormonism. It’s in number 3. World Religions or do Ctrl + F and type Mormonism.
Enjoy,

If the link in my posting of 12/20 @12:15pm doesn't work, try this:

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=970af549db852110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f5f411154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD

Sang Kim ended his/her comment at 12/20 @ 8:55am with, "Last, if Mormons didn't read this CARTOONS, then please do, you will like it."
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As an LDS, I did like it -- parodies can be very entertaining. Parody works by posing as straight-forward so that only someone familiar with the subject would get the humor of the parody's close-but-with-silly-differences take. Its humor comes from the "Ah-hah" moment of realization that it's actually a spoof.
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In the present instance, someone not well-versed with LDS doctrine could believe this is a serious exposition while your regular LDS member chuckles at the inventive oddball additions and misstatements.
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One danger of this kind of parody, however, is that it feeds the mormophobia among folks who don't get the joke. For example, this cartoon uses McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" as a reference for many of its spoofs. The Preface to that book clarifies that it is NOT an authoritative statement of Mormon doctrine, "For the work itself, I assume full and sole responsibility."
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I feel confident in the assertion that if a publication, even by an authority of the Church, not only does not claim to be authoritative but instead EXPLICITLY STATES THE *AUTHOR* IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CONTENT, then it represents the author's personal views and is not an authoritative statement of LDS doctrine.
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If you want authoritative statements of LDS doctrine, those are what the Church publishes as such. A page on the Church's official website addresses this. One paragraph there states,
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"Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted."
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Here's the link to the entire page: http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=970af 549db852110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f5f411154 963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD
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This would include statements found in the "Journal of Discourses," which also is used in the cartoon as a source for its spoofs. The "Journal of Discourses" is a collection of notes and handwritten transcriptions of talks given by Church leaders that was published by the European Mission in Liverpool, England as they received copies of these notes. The notes published in the "Journal" were not reviewed by the speakers before they were published nor by anyone at the Church's HQ. Some of the wilder assertions about LDS doctrine -- e.g. the Adam-God theory -- spring from the "Journal"
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So, thanks for pointing me to that cartoon. Its parody is complex, however, because it's actually a parody of how some people misuse personal statements of leaders to make false claims about what is official LDS doctrine. The people doing this do seem cartoonish to people like me in the Church, so the media of the cartoon adds another layer of complexity to this parody. Nicely structured -- wasn't it Rod McKuen who said some 40 years ago, "The media is the message"?

Oh, oh, oh,
To: RMI

You are absolutely right my friend. Mormons are very fine people (a clean living Americans) but what does the BIBLE say? Matthew 19:16 |The Rich Young Man |
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony,
19 honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"
20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[f] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

**So, you can try to be good, better, best as possible, but at the END my friend, Jesus Almighty GOD is the one will be the judge.

FYI, here are the chronological orders in the future, great tribulation \ rapture | millennium \ new kingdom with Christ | Armageddon \ the final battle| Judgment Day \segregation between goats and sheets | Eternal Life in heaven

Last, if Mormons didn't read this CARTOONS, then please do, you will like it.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

My, my, my,

Not enough time for a response, Jon; but, I will return to post one.

Quickly, to the rest of you. There are many good people out there - Christians, Mormons, Hindus, Buddists,.....

Most of the Mormons posting here seem like really fine folk. I would be the last to deny that.

Just because you are a cult follower of Jospeh Smith does not make you a bad person. It might even make you a better person. Yet, you will remain a cult follower.

Jon, I'll be back in a day or so.

Your friend,
RMI

Thanks for all the great insight this is awesome. It goes to show how many people hate the Mormon faith... and for what? Did you know that the Mormon faith gives $500,000 a year to the Baptist church? So you must hate the Baptist then. Also the Baptist has bought a lot of lds buildings when the Mormons are done with them. Did you know that the Mormons are the first in destruction areas even before Red Cross gets in and the gov't knows that?
Did you know that also John Wesley stated in a book that was done by him that he said"...Don't listen to me I don't even know all the truth..." Founder of the Methodist Church.
The Mormon faith is the closest I have seen to "Christ" church. When Christ was on the earth he was a prophet with Apostles. What church claims to have that...Mormons?
Christ Gave ordained his Apostles and bestowed the priesthood. All churches if you’re a minister you go to school and get a degree to teach. Guess which one doesn’t but the men get the priesthood....you guest right Mormons. Christ also taught that not everyone that says lord, lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but those who do the will of my father which is in heaven. Mormons don’t believe in being saved by grace but by working at it. Hmm… wow… They sound close to the original church. I think I might join. For all of you who have bashed, hated on, just know this (Matthew 12:35-37) "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, that ever idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment. FOR BY THE WORDS THOU SHALT SPEAK THOU SHALT BE CONDEMNED." I have love for all you guys out there and like Heidi said read the Book of Mormon pray about it. How many of you guys have prayed about the Bible to be True? Also just know that the Bible isn't in order and has over 30 missing books? So it’s not complete and also for those who say that the Book of Mormon is false. Just know that there were other people on the earth who loved and worshiped Christ other then Jerusalem. Sorry for the bad spelling. Merry Christmas. One last thing… Anyone know where the word Trinity is in the Bible I can’t find it in mine?

ARE MORMONS CHRISTIAN?
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I offer this official statement by the Presidency and by the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in answer,
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The Living Christ
http://www.lds.org/pa/library/0,17905,5022-1,00.html
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As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.
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He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He "went about doing good" (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.
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He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary's cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.
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We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.
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He rose from the grave to "become the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Cor. 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His "other sheep" (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised "dispensation of the fulness of times" (Eph. 1:10).
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Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: "His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
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"I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father" (D&C 110:34).
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Of Him the Prophet also declared: "And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
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"For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
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"That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God" (D&C 76:2224).
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We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—"built upon the foundation of ... apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Eph. 2:20).
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We testify that He will someday return to earth. "And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together" (Isa. 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.
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We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.

Yes Mormon's are Christian. To be Christian means to believe in Christ. Mormons believe in Christ and strive to be Christ like in their everyday lives. It also seems as though many whom have commented have only heard one little piece of information from the Mormon faith, many of which have been twisted and have no more truth to them at all, and based their opinion off of that. These pieces of information here and there can seem different and unbelievable but there is a big picture. If you'd like to see it and the truth go to:
www.mormon.org

Are Samaritans Jewish? This Savior didn't address this; he DID go out of his way to show that they were children of God deserving respect and kindness.

As a Mormon missionary in the South I received respect and kindness from most of those I spoke to who identified themselves as Christians--even when they had heard and accepted half-truths about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Mormons and Creedal Christians actually have much in common and can accomplish a great deal together. Arguing about labels will not achieve anything; showing the world the love of Christ will.

(Incidentally, I do not vote according to my gender, skin color, or religion. I will vote for the candidate who impresses me as the best leader and whose views on the issues best represent my own.)

So ,"Love thy Neighbor" only applies to people who have beliefs you approve of? This is the state of tolerance in America? A bunch of faceless people spewing virulence about some religion or another. Do you just set Google news to tell you anytime your hated religion of the day pops up and then you add your miserable comments. Get a life. If I want to know what Mormons believe, I'll ask them. I certainly won't look it up on one of your hateful links or the woefuly innacurate wikepedia. The Christian Right is neither, I guess Mormons are exempt from that by your own admission.

the only way for anyone to really know the truth regarding the Mormon Church, is to ASK GOD. and if you believe in a God who loves you and wants the absolute best for you, then you must believe that he would tell you what is truth and what is not.
And any Mormon would agree. In the closing chapter of the Book of Mormon, there is a verse that reads "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost; And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the btruth of all things."

Why not put it to the test, then? What do you have to lose? If the Mormons are wrong, then they are wrong...but what if they are right?

AMEN.

i wonder what people would think if a mormon told a catholic or protestant or other "christian" that THEY weren't actually Christian in the true sense of the word...because according to the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, other Christian faiths do not believe in the correct forms of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. But you don't hear Mormons telling anyone else they are not Christian because they don't believe in the Godhead as three seperate and distinct beings.

It seems preposterous to me that anyone would have the nerve to tell someone else that they really aren't who they say they are. it is not anyone's place but the believer themself to define what he believes and whether he is a Christian or not. that is why mormons don't attempt to tell everyone else they are wrong and not literal christians, and why anyone of any other faith or denomination should not attempt to do so, either...to me, it's like someone named "james" telling someone else named "james" that that can't really be their name because "my name is james, and you do not talk, look, or sound identical to me." ...ridiculous!!

AMEN.

i wonder what people would think if a mormon told a catholic or protestant or other "christian" that THEY weren't actually Christian in the true sense of the word...because according to the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, other Christian faiths do not believe in the correct forms of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. But you don't hear Mormons telling anyone else they are not Christian because they don't believe in the Godhead as three seperate and distinct beings.

It seems preposterous to me that anyone would have the nerve to tell someone else that they really aren't who they say they are. it is not anyone's place but the believer themself to define what he believes and whether he is a Christian or not. that is why mormons don't attempt to tell everyone else they are wrong and not literal christians, and why anyone of any other faith or denomination should not attempt to do so, either...to me, it's like someone named "james" telling someone else named "james" that that can't really be their name because "my name is james, and you do not talk, look, or sound identical to me." ...ridiculous!!

Wow, it is amazing for me to read all of the knowledgable insight given by the critics of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints of which I am a member. I am reminded of the fact that it is not religions that have caused so many problems througout time but rather religious intolerance. I am happy to belong to this church. My life has been blessed immensely by its impact on my life. We are Christians. Ever since I can remember, I have been taught to live and love as Christ Himself did on the earth. Is that a bad thing?
Why do we bother people so much? We are peaceful. We serve. We give of our time and our money to better the lives of those around us. We love our families. Is this evil? Is there a better way to live life? Sure we invite people to learn about the Church. Many accept the invitation and are moved. If they reject, we respect the freedom of choice that belongs to each individual. Despite rejection we will remain good friends and neighbors because it is what we believe and what we have been taught. I stand by my faith in Jesus Christ and our beliefs as a religion. The sooner we can get over this intolerance, the sooner we will be strengthened as a society and a nation.

Is it Christian to help others and DO what Jesus himself did to alieviate human suffering? If so then I would suggest the Mormon people are VERY Christian. I see their Church always helping others, even those not of their faith.

Is it Christian to help others and DO what Jesus himself did to alieviate human suffering? If so then I would suggest the Mormon people are VERY Christian. I see their Church always helping others, even those not of their faith.

Thank you to newsweek for allowing a true perspective about traditional and non-traditional Christianity.

I often see the Mormon Church at the forefront of humanitarian efforts worldwide and for other Christian religeons to mock them is very unfair to the Mormon people who practice their religeon. This is truest way that Jesus himself did to alieve human suffering.

Thank you to newsweek for allowing a true perspective about traditional and non-traditional Christianity.

I often see the Mormon Church at the forefront of humanitarian efforts worldwide and for other Christian religeons to mock them is very unfair to the Mormon people who practice their religeon. This is truest way that Jesus himself did to alieve human suffering.

That was a great article. It was a good point about going to the source to ask for information. If a person wants to know about "Mormon" beliefs, ask a "Mormon".

RMI,

Here's my original passage on Hell:

"And no, I don't think good people will be damned to any kind of hell for not joining, now or later."

Which isn't saying there's no such condition: as Marlowe's Mephistopheles puts it, "Where there is no God, here is Hell." And "Thinks't thou that I, who saw the face of God, am not in Hell?"

In terms of place, our theology teaches that the pre-resurrection spirits of the dead (the body and the spirit together being the unified soul of man) "reside" either in what we call paradise, which is not an eternal condition, or in what we call hell, which is likewise not an eternal condition. Those in paradise were those who embraced the Gospel and the necessary ordinances in life, or who have accepted these ordinances vicariously. Those in hell are those whose progress was truncated either by choice or circumstance. The spirits in paradise are organized to teach those in hell in hopes that when the saving ordinances are performed on their behalf (else why are they then baptized for the dead . . .?), they will accept and no longer be "damned" or "stopped."

Thankfully we little people don't get to decide who does or does not make the cut: that's Christ's responsibility as advocate and judge. So we just try to reach as many as we can here and, presumably, in the afterlife as well (I wouldn't know for certain: I've never been there.)

My point was that all God's children, save those guilty of denying God's spirit entirely, and very likely those guilty of cold-blooded murder, will experience a degree of joy in the eternities. They may not progress beyond a certain point because of their choices, but God will not leave them to suffer in eternity, if for no other reason than his Son has already suffered infinitely on their behalf. They may have a rough go of it for a while, of course.

See, that's a beautiful thing, and it lacks the childish fear-mongering of Creedal Christianity's rather simplistic and dualistic view of things. I don't mean to give offense saying that, but I'm aware it will probably be offensive. But there you have it.

Another clarification: I said all scripture together doesn't necessarily contain all truth: we are unique in this respect as well in that we believe in an Eternal and unchanging God, who continues to use revelation as a means of communicating with his children, whose works and words are without number, and who doubtless has a heckuva lot more to say to us all. So no, the Bible doesn't contain all truth, and neither do the Book of Mormon et al. But combining them in one (Ezekiel 37) gives us a lot more clarity. And yes, our belief in the Bible comes with the proviso "as far as it is translated correctly." The again, as non-Creedal Christians, we haven't the obligation to believe in the infallibility of our leaders or those whom they appointed to decide what was and was not scripture. As has been pointed out, 1600 years on, the jury is still out among creedals on that one.

But latter day scripture, if indeed it is that, comes directly through revelation from single-sources. The doctrines are pure even if the grammar isn't always.

That said, we honour those who worked so hard to gather and preserve the truths of Judeo-Christianity, from Luther and Tyndale and King James' team on back through the centuries. And we believe they have an eternal reward, and look forward to an association with them all. We certainly don't pray to them for intercession or expect them to be without flaw.

As for Mountain Meadows: of course it isn't part of our sabbath curriculum--although our manuals on Church History do refer to it. I've already explained that there is no evidence that it was an officially sanctioned act, and so is the act of a handful of saints, no of the Church. If an order of, oh, say Jesuits went a little paranoid and, I dunno, killed off some heathen pagans in say, South America, would you blame Catholicism? No, and nor do I. Are incidences of priestly sexual abuse of children and young adults and vulnerable adults, or of nuns inflicting physical abuse in Catholic schools part of the Catechism?

But here's a difference, if you must have one: far from covering up, our Church has always preserved the very records that are still used against it, however speculatively. And those records have been made available and are increasingly made available to scholars from within and without the Church, including Bagley, who has spouted the same lunacy for years about MM despite the evidence. The same can be said about polygamy, masonry, and any other number of oddities. Not sure Catholicism, or your friendly Lutheran brotherhood, can make the same claims. If we'd wanted to cover anything up, we'd have had an accidental fire decades ago.

FInally: cults. First of all, we don't ask converts to cut off all relations with their friends and family. Just the opposite. Second of all, when someone is disfellowshipped or excommunicated, we work very hard to support and help them come back. My own brother is in this circumstance, and we have not rejected him at all. If anything our prayers and efforts on his behalf are greater than ever. Third, our general leaders, if they are not financially independent when they are called, are supported only in a very basic way--they are to be comfortable enough to focus on their work, but none lives lavishly. Our prophet resides in a modest apartment in a high-rise, for example. Fourth, our tithe is 10% financially and whatever time and talent we can reasonably commit. As a lay clergy/leadership, we receive no temporal benefit, no kickbacks, no favours. We sign no contract, and can withdraw our membership at any time. Of course, our leaders and friends will discourage us from doing so, but that's love for you. Fifth, we are usually very active in our communities, and whatever else he may be, Mitt is an example of this. We are not paranoid, isolationist, anti-establishment freaks, and you know it.

My little discourse has, of course, made several assumptions about the definition of a cult, and these are based in popular, not academic assumptions. But you keep slinging that term around like it applies. And anyway, people who live in glass houses . . . physician, heal thyself . . . don't crap where you eat . . . and he who is without sin, let him . . . and so on. RMI, everything of which you have so casually accused our church, most of it rooted in rumour and half-truth, is at least 100-fold the case in so-called mainstream Christianity. So we're all in a cult, I guess. That's certainly what the dominant Jews vis-a-vis the Pharisees and Sadducees, considered Christ and his merry band of saints.

FInally, in an age when religion and religious freedom are increasingly at risk, does it really make sense to alienate your fellow believers? To say, it's okay to attack them, but not the rest of us?

Do we believe we belong to the only true and living Church on earth? Yes. But we also believe we have good brothers and sisters working and serving in other churches. We'd be tickled if they all joined up, and we'll keep working to that end because we love them and want them to share what we have. But we're realists, and we know this ain't gonna happen. So we love them anyway and try to work peacefully alongside them in our neighborhoods and schools and towns, etc. Sans the muckrakers, this generally works out.

Merry Christmas,

JP

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I enjoyed the article. I am not an official spokesperson of the church, but I'll still share my beliefs: Christ is my Savior. He lives. He loves me. And all of you. What could be more joyful than that?

If anyone would like to know more about the truths that I rejoice over, the best place to start would be to get a copy of the Book of Mormon. I know this book is true and is of God.

Just what have Mr. Robertson, Mr. Falwell, Mr. Dobson and Mr. McAteer and their like done? And all for the sake of power and money that differs from what your cult has done?

Just curious?

BTW, do not think you are special just because I ask hard questions that sometimes embarrass the LDS's.

I ask similar questions of Mr. Robertson, Mr. Falwell, Mr. Dobson and Mr. McAteer and their like (to use your words).

Do you consider entities out there that claim to be Christian to be or have been also cults, e.g. the followers of Jim Jones, Warren Jeffs, David Koresh?

Thank you.
Your bud,
RMI

Thanks Bro. Michael Otterson for your great article.

I am LDS and live on the border of Mexico, namely Laredo, TX.

I too am greatly amazed by the amount of hate those of the Evangelical right are thrusting our direction in this and other blogs. I served for 2 years in Chile and knew firsthand the Evangelicals of Chile. But I never saw or felt such hate exhibited.

Evangelicals, if you must, don't call us Christians as you define it; I prefer the label I and we give ourselves of 'Latter-day Saints', with 'Saint' implying that I am a believer and follower of Jesus Christ to the best of my ability. It is really scarry to read the hate written here.

Is it little wonder there is so much trouble today to discuss what is to be done to solve the challenges of our country. I am prone to think how much of this originates from the late 1970's and early 1980's with the advent of the religous right and their self righteous efforts to take back the country from the 'left', led by the likes of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson and Ed McAteer. Since their efforts to combine a self-imployed career with moral influence on their ignorant flocks, we have been going down a rapidly declining desencion into self-righteous political conformity. I originally am from Michigan where we once had a tradition of true separation of religion and politics. We voted conservative and Repulican for the most part (except around Detroit) with Gerarld R. Ford being our best example in the House of Representatives.

But look what Mr. Robertson, Mr. Falwell, Mr. Dobson and Mr. McAteer and their like have done? And all for the sake of power and money.

It is so funny to see all of the Anti-Mormon posts here and to think who is pulling your chain? I for one payed my own way on my mission and in my present calling or position in the church (that requires sometimes 20 plus hours a week) I receive no financial reimbursement. I only get to see how much happier those I serve are with my commitment of my precious time. No paycheck here is recieved here.

Good luck to Mr. Romney. I still have not decided who to vote for but I am so glad he is running for office. It sure is opening a lot of opportunites to answer questions about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

To all of those Anti-Mormons: keep up all of the great Anti-Church posts....you would not believe how many people came to church this last Sunday to find out for themselves what we believe! I remember on my mission that if we could just start a dialogue with people and they were honestly looking for answers, I felt as a missionary I had done my job. This past Sunday the local missionaries were quite literally overwhelmed. Again, thank-you, all you Anti-Mormon 'Christians'!

Again, as for me I am happy to call myself a Saint, trying to do my best to follow Jesus Christ.

To: Sang Kim

"Definition of Christian is having personal relationship with Christ.
Romans 10: 9-10 |this is key to salvation. "

Done.

To: ETD,
Definition of Christian is having personal relationship with Christ.
Romans 10: 9-10 |this is key to salvation.

Definition of a non-Christian: one who labels a person who claims to be a Christian as non-Christian is not a Christian themselves. For those in this situation, don’t be troubled; Christ will forgive you (if you ask in faith) and let you become a Christian again – hang in there.

Jon,
Thank you for your reply. I'll keep my responses short and in the order of your paragraphs.

Thank you for at least acknowledging Mtn. Meadow occured. Many Mormons are not even aware. It isn't part of the lessons, you know. Can you pronounce cover up? Well suspicious at least - after all inquiring minds.....

1978 - better late than never. I think Mitt Romney said that he also cried. I am happy to know that you are not a racist but the cult has a history which will always be front and center. Don't blame me. I'm sorry that you must always defend a defenseless position.

I sure you were a good missionary. I am happy to learn that you do not believe in "any kind" of hell. Tell us about the afterlife. Now Jon, are you being honest with all of us? Of course your cult believes in "any kind" of hell. Tell us where Satan hangs out. Tell us where the recalcitrant lovers of Satan hang out after death.

The Bible dosen't contain all the truth? Thank you for saying that. Futher, isn't the Bible translated incorrectly? Doesn't the KJV contain error? Seems mysterious to me. The temple seems mysterious. Revelations to the executive in SLC seem mysterious. The gold plates, the translation devices, baptisms for the dead: all seem mysterious (no need to explain and rationalize, Jon. I have heard it all - too many times).

Jon, it hurts the Catholics and Protestants alike to be told they are not up to par - same as you being told that you aren't up to par.

Thanks again, Jon

Sorry about running over.

You bud,
RMI

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

Here is the CARTOON about Mormonism.

Mormons are good people but they are headed to the wrong direction.

http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=15900

Listen to the sermon about Mormonism from Lon.

RMI,

If you're still listening: sort of touche'. Except that I wasn't suggesting I was being rational at all--I was calling out the battle of theologies for what it is, and then I offered my witness, as I encouraged others to do. No inconsistency there, if you look closely.

The nice list of abuses you offer are very poor examples of what you'd like to illustrate, as has been demonstrated time and again. Historical research on Mountain Meadows, for instance, cannot confirm any official church sanction of the massacre, but can confirm both attempts to avert the massacre and official legal and ecclesiastic responses in the aftermath. It is a terribly troubling event, yes, but not the official conspiracy that paranoid critics of the Church want it to be. That's wishful thinking as much as a denial it ever happened would be.

As for the Priesthood Ban--individual members and even a generation or two of members have believed all kinds of wonky things in an effort to justify the ban, the the truth is no official reason was ever offered except that it was in response to revelation. We do know that several generations of apostles and prophets hoped and prayed for it to be rescinded. I won't speculate about reasons beyond that, but will only say that at the age of 7, when the revelation lifting the ban was publicized, I wept like a baby for joy, and still do when I think about it long and hard. For anything else, go talk to one of the hundreds of thousands of members of African origin. I can make referrals.

As for the potential offense of missionaries and missionary-minded members: sure, I get it. I was a more sensitive missionary than that, I think, and I hope the majority are. I know that many are not--they are young, naive, simple, and sometimes over-zealous. My feeling was always that it was good for folks to join the Church if they were truly converted, but no otherwise. And no, I don't think good people will be damned to any kind of hell for not joining, now or later. What critics of the Church fail to understand is that the doctrines of salvation are much fuller, and more revelatory of God's compassion for his children, than anything else out there. The majority of Creedal Christianity has an appetite for mystery, and they manufacture it where they can't find it.

And guess what: the Bible doesn't contain all truth, and neither do all the books of scripture combined: an eternal God (and by the way, his eternity is considered permanent: that's the whole point) is an infinite God, and thus his truths are infinite. We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important truths pertaining to his kingdom. That says it. Latter-Day scripture, we claim, contains the fulness of the Gospel as it has so far been revealed, and that in the scriptures together we find the saving doctrines. Are there mysteries? Sure. But these are not to remain mysteries at all costs, but may remain veiled until God is willing to unveil them. We love revelation, not mystery.

And anyway, being told you are not a follower of Christ is not the same as being told you have a partial truth, and would you like to add to it. The first is an unequivocal rejection of the person's faith and witness, and the second is an implicit acknowledgement of the person's faith.

Gordon: sorry you feel that way. 36 years on, I sometimes think the social aspect is the most challenging in my experience of the Church. I stick it out because of my testimony and my continued experiences. But hang in there: maybe something will click again. I just hope you don't embrace hypocrisy for the sake of social interaction.

Peace out, everybody.

I consider myself a Mormon, but I do not believe that God is still speaking through modern day profits and I do not believe anything that Joseph Smith said about receiving a revelation from an angel. I like the social concern and emphasis of the church and the emphasis on family. I know I'm different, but I am a Mormon.

Gordon

It seems to me that Romney's campaign for President would be greatly enhanced if Kennedy's speech was used as part of a campain strategy. I appreciate your article.

The Bottom Line:

Mormonism (and Islam and to some degree Christianity) relies on the "revelations" of a "pretty, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingie". That fact alone relegates Mormonism (and Islam and Christianity) to the pile of human hallucinated superstitions with the codes of the ancients woven in to give hallucinations some credibility.

And if Mitt Romney does not recognize this in public statements and debates, he will have no chance to be President. Ditto for Huckabee.

After reading most of the posts, and having studied not only Mormonism, but also other forms of western religions, eastern religions and their historical bases, I would like to make two comments:

-To those who attack Mormons based on the teachings of their early leaders be sure to check your sources and find more than one reference. (any good undergraduate student should be familiar with that requirement). I find it interesting that because Mormons have documented their sermons from the beginning that they catch so much flak, when most sects of Christianity and other religions have made just as many rascist, biggotist and sexist comments.

-To Mormons who refuse to acknowlege their past or try to squeeze themselves into the Christian mold. Stop fooling yourself, read your scriptures and get familiar with your doctrine. You are told that you are different than the rest of the world. Aren't you paying attention in your sunday school classes?

I am a card-carrying mormon, I attend the meetings weekly and do all those mormon things that everyone criticizes us for. I also am fully prepared to admit that the "archeological evidence" for the Book of Mormon is inconclusive, and that the current academic world would indicate that the book cannot be backed by science. However, I have also read studies and papers published from many of the worlds most prestigeous universities that justify slavery because of the functions of the Negro's body. I have seen 500 years of world history summarized in a single sentence. Seriously, try to remember when reading the articles and examining the evidence that ideas, principles and "scientific evidence" change.

The reason I am a Mormon is because I believe in what the religion teaches, I try to practice the principles of good Christianity (not the mormon type, but the type that my Christian friends also work for), and find that my core principles are in line with my buddhist, muslim and hindu friends. I also believe in proper study. In my studies I am still willing to be Mormon - and yes I know about the blood atonement doctrine, the kinderhook plates and the mountain medows massacre. Lets be realistic here, the big issue isn't the "controvesies" or the bizarre mormon doctrines, the real issue is that some - and I put that emphasis on some very strongly- people are too blinded by their own cultural conditioning to find an objective ground to stand on. Yes there are some mormons who do things that are should not be done in a perfect utopian world, but most of the time it isn't because they are mormon, they would be that way regardless of religious orientation. There are way more factors to consider. I will be the first to admit I don't know everything about science, culture and religion. But, I do know this - we have a great opportunity to be educated and think critically about things, so do it, but try to see the big picture as well as the details. As long as there are religions who believe that there is one God, there will be disagreements on who's version of that God is right, or if that God even exists. If Americans could accept that fact, we would find alot more tolerance and respect, which is from what I have read an intrinsic part of the establishment of democracy world wide.

I am also not American, and so have no direct involvment with the presidency debate. However, as it is an important consideration I would urge every american to vote for the president who will do the best job for America, and remember that unfortunately the American President has influence on foreign issues as well as domestic.

Dear Michael Otterson,

I appreciate your comments on the topic of Mormons being Christians. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or known by most as a Mormon. Your words refreshing to me, because of your respect in addressing this topic.

As a missionary in Montreal, Quebec, I wore a badge with the name of the church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and shared the words of Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Redeemer daily. I continue to attend church, where the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are preached, and where freedom of religion is spoken.

I respect diverse faiths as a Mormon, and hope to strengthen Faith and Love in our communities, nations and world. I know that Mormons are Christians and that most Mormons are happy to talk and our faith and learn of yours.

Gloria, Which is it? December 25th? or April 6th?

Personally, I think it was closer to April 6th. Why don't Mormons celebrate the Saviour's birthday closer to the date they say it is? Just curious.

Christians have already elbowed their way into the Mid-Winter Yule Fest.

Steve R: Don't you love it when the "private writings" of an Apostle of the Church are disavowed?

Folks, don't you get it? We love you.

You are members of a cult.

We don't hate you for it!

Personally, I think your cult is insidious and to be avoided; but hate? Well.....maybe the cult; but, just a little bit.

I add my thanks to Newsweek for this blog.
To all who hate The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: you have the right to your opinion and feelings. However, if you would excercise humility, the humility of the Savior, the result would be respect for the beliefs of others. Humility is basic to happiness. I doubt very much that you are happy. There is not happiness in hatred. I am a very grateful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who loves everyone -including those of you who hate my church. You are just as precious to God -and to me, as anyone. May your heart be softened, and may you be blessed with peace, tolerance and love, specially now that it is Christmas and we are celebrating the birth of the Savior.

Steve Redinger,

I’m also a long-standing member of the LDS church (30+ years) and the only dualities are the misrepresentations of church doctrine and Gospel covenants that you posted in your comments on this site. Your page reference in Mormon Doctrine makes no mention of a "public" or a "private esoteric" gospel (nor does the rest of the book). A more important point to make is that Bruce R. McConkie’s 'Mormon Doctrine’ is not official church doctrine as the title might imply, but only McConkie’s privately written opinions and speculations *about* official church doctrine. Official church doctrines are published in the accepted church scriptures (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price) and declarations from the First Presidency quorum (or First Presidency and Quorum of Twelve Apostles).

As for what the LDS church does in public, the church is not shy about sharing its foundational doctrines (existence of God, divinity of Jesus Christ, restoration of Christ’s ancient church in our era, modern-day prophets and continuing revelation, Book of Mormon, etc.) which are also taught within the church. LDS missionaries cover these doctrines with the public and they’re available for public review on the church’s official web sites. The non-LDS public can even attend Sunday services in LDS chapels and hear these same doctrines (and others) taught firsthand. There’s no such thing as a "public" vs. "private" gospel. The LDS church is Christian simply by the ordinary definition of the term but some of these foundational doctrines have been labeled by church critics as 'non-Christian' because they disagree with post-apostolic creedal beliefs.

No "bait and switch" was done to me nor any of the many people I came into contact with in the church. The conditions of the baptismal covenant to gain membership to the church remain in force throughout a member’s life (taking upon one’s self the name of Christ, comforting those who stand in need of comfort, standing as a witness of God in all places and at all times, etc). This is why the baptismal covenant is renewed every Sunday by taking the sacrament. Surely you would have been reminded of this if you took the sacrament and attended your meetings every week. Violation of the baptismal covenant disqualifies one for eternal life even if later covenants have been made.

As far as “informed consent” goes, a person who wants to join the LDS church is first taught the basic teachings of the Gospel then asked to pray to God to confirm (1) what they were taught was true and (2) if they should join the church. The answers to honest, sincere prayers on both questions come directly from God through a witness of the Holy Ghost. Jesus taught that the Holy Ghost (or Spirit of truth) would guide us into all truth (see John 16:13). So if the question on whether or not to join the LDS church came from the source of all truth (God) through sincere prayer, this is definitely enough to be “informed” before joining the church. Such was my experience and the experience of many of the 12.8 million worldwide current members of the church.

Jon Penny (hereafter known as Jon the Rationalist):

Help me out Jon,
You ask:
"Is it hurtful to be told you are not a follower of Christ because you don't believe He is His own father?"
Your answer is: "Sure'...."

Is it not hurtful to be told that your beliefs are skewed and that your Bible does not contain the full truth by a stranger on your doorstep (clean cut, white shirt, tie notwithstanding)?

Anyway, nice try Jon. I'm glad you got it off your chest.

The problem in the minds of many of those who post here with Mormonism is that there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence - historical fact and physical fact - that it is a cult.

JFTR - I accept that one person's faith is as valid as any other person's faith:

However bizarre a faith might be -

e.g. believing that the Divine condones(ed):

Discriminating against blacks as unworthy of the priesthood,

Islamic female suicide bombers,

The Mountain Meadow Massacre,

Zionists murdering the Palestinians

- faith remains the belief in that which cannot be proven nor disproved.

Jon, Mike asked the question. What did he (you) expect the answers would be?

Lastly, to quote you, Jon:
"Offer your witness, by all means, but don't dress it up as rational argument."

Your friend,
RMI

Great Article! I especially enjoyed the quotes from President Kennedy and the invitation to look at the basic Mormon beliefs.

Great Article! I especially enjoyed the quotes from President Kennedy and the invitation to look at the basic Mormon beliefs.

The Bottom Line:

Mormonism (and Islam and to some degree Christianity) relies on the "revelations" of a "pretty, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingie". That fact alone relegates Mormonism (and Islam and Christianity) to the pile of human hallucinated superstitions with the codes of the ancients woven in to give hallucinations some credibility.

And if Mitt Romney does not recognize this in public statements and debates, he will have no chance to be President. Ditto for Huckabee.

Thankyou

As a Mormon and a believer of Christ I appreciated the article. However I don't mind if "Christians" don't think Mormons should be included in the Christianity club. I agree with many who have posted that following Christ is how we are all Christians. I wish we all didn't have to be so critical of each others beliefs but rather could seek to understand how religion helps us to find happiness and meaning in our lives. I was talking to my wife about how I have observed some atheist's acting more Christian than some of the most zealous Christians. I define Christians as people who remind me of Christ not those who claim to be belong to a Christian Faith.

Can't resist.

John Stephens: what the?

Dude, the three "languages" you quote are traditional literary genres, including the prophetic. And if it matters, which it really doesn't by any but the most artificial standard for scripture, you will find symbol, parable, prophecy, and even allegory in the Book of Mormon. In fact, the presence of chiasma--a Hebrew poetic conceit--is considered one of the literary evidences of its authenticity. But even if this were not so, recall that portions of the OT and most of the NT were not written, or at least not considered canonical and compiled, until 400 AD--centuries after the events and teachings they retain, whereas the Book of Mormon purports to have been written and assembled by an offshoot of the Hebrews over a period of 1,000 years within the context of a culture, language, and belief system in significant flux. It also claims to have a single editor working with physical records and a single translator. These would be better claims to authority than the mere coincidence of three literary modes.

Now that said, I read and love the Bible. I have no problem with its textual history, which, given the spiritual witness I experience when reading its most cogent and profound teachings, actually deepens my faith in God: that he can work with this whole dysfunctional human family at all is a miracle. That his Word gets airtime despite us is a wonder.

Also, you know darn well--or should--that Israel has no greater advocate in the spiritual sense than the Church: remains neutral politically, and reaches out to people of all faiths and persuasions, of course, but Israel has a pretty big soft spot in our hearts and our theology.

I guess I don't mind so much when rationalists, atheists, and skeptical agnostics knock the Church: have atter. But when people of other faiths, and especially those who have left the Church for another, start countering the claims of the Church with the claims of their own--well, it all sounds a little silly, doesn't it? "I don't believe Joseph Smith (about whom I have some rather silly ideas) was a prophet, but rather that an authoritative interpretation of scripture is the Nicene Creed. So you're wrong!"

Offer your witness, by all means, but don't dress it up as rational argument.

Alright, so here's my take: I'm tired of the whole thing. I couldn't care less anymore whether the fundies, the methodists, the catholics or the moon-people think I'm Christian. Frankly, if we're right, then such criticisms and disavowals are meaningless. Is it hurtful to be told you are not a follower of Christ because you don't believe He is His own father? Sure, especially since it is abundantly clear from the NT itself, with a little help from Isaiah and the other apocalyptic prophets, that He is not. Such teaching is heretical and post-Biblical. But whatever. I won't condemn anyone on the basis of their belief, and I haven't the personal authority to do it even if I wanted to.

Here's what's beautiful about our theology: everyone will have an opportunity to learn the Gospel, in this life or the next. God does not condemn His children in their ignorance, but rather wishes them to be saved and exalted beside Him. To that end, He sent His Only begotten Son to offer himself as a sacrifice and to teach a new law, one that asks us to love God and each other in patience, humility, and charity. He founded a new church in which He established His authority--an authority that was lost due to the persections and abuses within and without the Early Church. It has been restored, and is the nexus of His salvation: its restoration is a Grace. But guess what: turning away the missionaries or railing against the cultic practices you read about in the National Enquirer are not sufficient to "sepaate [you] from the love of Christ," as Paul teaches in Romans.

Nope. He works patiently and lovingly with each of us, as He has always done. He bides His time. And I think most of us are in for some surprises--good and bad, may be--one day regarding who did and didn't manage to get things together. But all of God's children, save a very, very few that only He can identify, will receive a reward of comfort and peace commensurate with their ability to receive. Will some become like God? So we're told. Is that heretical? Not at all. And if God is all Love, all Light, all Wisdom, and all Power, how could He not but want His children to share all of those things?

So anyway, I got it out of my system . . . again. Hope there's something of use.

Oh, and Creedal Christians who worry over the Trinity doctrine: get your hands on a Book of Mormon and find Abinadi's prophetic lecture on the unity of God, Christ, and Spirit. You'll get it, and it might clear a few things up along the way. Can't hurt, anyway.

Salem,

JP

Hmmm, we are doing a good job in taking "Christ out of Christmas". We should continue the project by taking Christ "Mythical" out of orthodox Christianity.

To wit:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus Christ, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

My deceased stepfather was an elder in the Mormon church, and most all of his family, whom I love, are Mormons in Utah. I attended the LDS church from my youth to early adulthood and I was baptized in the church, so I am well acquainted with Mormon doctrine. It would take a thesis or perhaps a dissertation to write a proper treatise on all the ways Mormonism contradicts the Word of God in general and Jesus Christ in particular, but I shall be succinct by adhering to basics.
If you define Christian as anyone who believes in any Jesus Christ, then yes, the Mormons are Christians. However, when someone says that he or she believes in Jesus Christ it begs the question: Which one? About two thousand years ago, Paul warned that more than one Jesus and more than one gospel was being preached. “For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted…” Again, “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.” The problem has become far worse as doctrines, dogmas and denominations have proliferated over the subsequent centuries, to say nothing of myriad cults.
Just as God is mysterious, the Bible is a book of mystery. Read Ezekiel, Daniel, and The Revelation of Jesus Christ, for instance. The Bible is written in three mystery languages – parabolic, symbolic, and prophetic. Parable: “Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow…” Symbolic: “These seven stars are the seven angels of the seven churches…” Prophetic: “When you see all these things come to pass, look up, for your redemption draws nigh.” The three mystery languages interlock like a cipher or decryption device; like wheels within wheels with eyes before and behind. They are the keys to the kingdom, which only the Holy Spirit can reveal to the carnal mind of man.
The Bible is the only holy writ in the world that accurately and unerringly foretells future events (as they relate to Israel). “For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning…” For example, from Adam until Abraham, who was the father of the Hebrew nation, was 1948 years (you can compute this through the genealogies in Genesis). From Jesus Christ, who is called the second Adam, until the founding of the modern nation-state of Israel, was 1948 years. That is no coincidence. Israel is the only nation in the world to cease to exist for 2,000 years, then resurrect like Phoenix rising from its own ashes, precisely in its ancient location, speaking its ancient tongue. It is the single-most critical key to end-time events. There are scores of such prophecies from Genesis to Revelation, most of which authenticate the true Jesus Christ. “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
The Book of Mormon, accepted by Mormons as holy writ and an adjunct to the Bible, does not contain the three mystery languages, and neither does it mesh or interlock with them to reveal the mysteries of God. It is fiction, fantasy and fraud.

I love the Father and the Son with all of my heart.
And when I finally drew near unto God I found a happiness that nothing compares to.
I know that Jesus Christ is my Savior, he atoned for all of my sins, and it is because of him that I can be saved.
And when I pray, I can feel God's love so strong and I always get an answer.
Oh yeah, & I'm a Mormon.
I doubt many will listen to me, I'm just a young Mormon girl, but when I found the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I found a peace and joy that I can't even measure.
I know the Book of Mormon is true, and every time I read it I learn something new and wonderful.
I find it upsetting that people will believe anything they hear about the Mormon faith & that they would accept a prejudiced "interpretation" of what we actually believe. Why would you try to defame and tear down something just because you don't agree with it? That's not fair or kind. Everyone has their own agency to believe in what they want to believe.

Mr Otterson,

I very much liked your article and would be very much inclined to direct friends or interested persons to read it for clarifications as to Moronism and Christianity.

Thanks, Tim

The fact that mormons are christian is self evident in the name of the The LDS Church. The official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And it is indeed The Church of Jesus Christ, and there is only one Jesus Christ.

The different religions that believe in Christ are to numerous to mention, but it is easy to differentuate between various christians. Catholic Christians do not go by the name of the Baptist, nor do the Baptist go by the name of Lutheran, yet all are christians because they belive in Jesus Christ. So whether a person be a Mennonite Christian, a baptist Christian, a Lutheran Christian, or a Mromon Christian, how can some say that all are not chrisitans?

Since God requires those who "claim" to be saved to keep his commanments, then only those who learn what those commandments are, and keep them, these will be the only ones who are saved. The Question then is not who is christian, but rather who knows the truth? Obvopusly, if there are 100 opinions on a subject, then 99 of that 100 are either in the wrong or they do not have the truth! Is God double minded? I think not. The scriptures are clear on the subject that God is not a respector of persons and Jesus Christ himself pointed out that many of his own generation erred, not knowing the scriptures. This irratated them and they put him on the cross and crucified him. Today we have those same type of people in all religions, thinking that "their"truths are the only correct way. Hos silly! All men and women are cildren of God and he will do everything in his power to help and enlighten any persons mind, but they must let him come to them. If they believe in Christ, they do well, but even the devils believe, so it is obcious that belief is not enough to save any soul.

The fact is that there are good men and women in all religions, and that is as it should be.

as always...the way it is...yakiti_yak@hotmail.com

Wow, George Jungle sure has a severe case of the Three B's i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed in "red neck" Christianity!!!!

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints I found this article to be very helpful, both for myself as I wonder how to relate with friends and neighbors of other faiths and for those who know little about the "Mormon" religion. Particularly I enjoyed the quote by Senator John Kennedy who I believe accurately portrayed the spirit of religious liberty as it applies to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We believe in freedom, we believe in goodness, we believe in respecting the beliefs of others whatever they may be and we appreciate seeing and feeling that same respect and goodness in return.
If as Christians we open our minds and our hearts, I'm sure that we would find more similarities in our beliefs than differences.

Steve R:

You are spot on.

Thank you.

I speak as a person who was LDS from age 19 to age 37 years old. Mormonism is a dual religion. It has a public gospel and a private esoteric gospel. (See Apostle Bruce McConkie, 'Mormon Doctrine' pg 333 ) The public gospel appears Biblical from a public analysis. The LDS declares itself 'Christian' in public from this stand point. The private gospel- contains what creedal/traditional Christians find 'non-Christian' When a person joins the Mormons they first are taught the public (preparatory gospel). It teaches of One God (BoM Alma 11:29) who is strictly Eternal ( BoM Moroni ch. 7&8) the convert makes what is claimed to be forever baptismal covenants to this One Eternal God-being (see Doctrine & Covenants 20:19). Later after membership , these conditions and covenants change with the teaching of the second gospel (fulness of the gospel or Eternal Progression). This fulness teaches that God is only one of many gods who are really not eternal afterall (King Follet Discourse). So a person becomes a Mormon under one set of conditions-- but after joining the conditions change. This represents a bait and switch practice in gaining religious converts-- or lack of informed consent when joining the LDS Church.

There you go George Jungle! Tell the truth my friend.
You are absolutely correct. Now, they need our prayers and we are responsible if we don't correct their path to Hell.
Also, here is the CARTOON about Mormon. http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp
I know most of them are truth.
Enjoy and have a wonderful weekend my friends.

MORMONISM and the LDS Church is a FALSE church. The Jesus that Mormons believe in is NOT the Jesus of the Bible. The JESUS of the Bible is GOD himself ! GOD and JESUS are ONE and the SAME ! JESUS is the creator of the universe !

WARNING TO ALL MORMONS:

The BIBLE teaches that anyone who ADDS anything to what the BIBLE teaches will have plagues and punishment added to them. What do you think the Book of Mormon and the D&C are ? They are adding to what the Bible teaches. Where is Joseph Smith ? Joseph Smith is in Hell ! Why ? Because Joseph Smith refused to believe the Bible and decided to instead mislead who knows how many people by creating the Mormon religion which is SATANICLY conceived !

The HOLY BIBLE is 100% true ! The BIBLE is GOD's inspired HOLY WORD and is NOT to be played with and trivialized which is exactly what the LDS church has done.

There will be NOT ONE true MORMON in heaven. Joseph Smith is not there. Joseph Smith is the same place as Hitler !

The LDS church is NOT God's chosen people. The JEWISH people are GOD's chosen people. ISRAEL, not UTAH, is the APPLE OF GOD's eye !

WAKE UP MORMONS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE AND YOU FIND YOURSELF IN HELL !!!

Your article was very well written. I appreciate knowing that you have taken the time to state the facts. Thank you for not spreading more false teachings. God bless you and your family.

Your article was very well written. I appreciate knowing that you have taken the time to state the facts. Thank you for not spreading more false teachings. God bless you and your family.

Thank-you Newsweek.
It was very tolerant of you, a mainstream media organization, to allow the Mormons some space to define themselves!

Thank-you Newsweek.
It was very tolerant of you to allow the Mormons to define themselves!

Palooza: Well... that's a start. Interpretations being subjective - uh huh. You do not like my style. It's arrogant.... blah, blah, blah.

It's ok.

PREACHING TO THE CHOIR:
Indeed, all humans are deserving of a (may I) baseline of respect. My attempt is to respect appropriately. I have on this very thread declared my respect for several people with whom I disagree and I think it immoral of you to insinuate that I do otherwise.

That you find my posting ridiculous is fine with me. We could (well I could) have so much fun if you would offer up some of those extraordinary rationalization skills.

This is not the the first time I have offered to school you with respect to my ridiculous postings.
You seem to be a nice person , maybe. Of what are you afraid? Certainly not ridiculous me!

Go ahead, be brave, select one of my ridiculous facts. Let's examine it. Bet we can find agreement on whether I am correct or not about the fact.

Then, we can apply our interpretive skills and perhaps I will chuckle at my preposterous, laughable posting (and beg forgiveness) Or, perhaps you will acknowledge that understanding the truth of my posting just required your further study (you will be forgiven straightaway - we are friends; aren't we?).

One of us is going to become a better person for having learned from the other.

Or, you can stop bothering me and I will return the same courtesy.

"Once again into the breach":

Three Step Program for "Deflawing" Mormonism i.e.

1. Moroni was a "pretty wingie talking fictional thingie and all references to him in the Book of Mormon should be deleted.

2. Joe Smith suffered from signficant hallucinations/drinking binges. During these episodes in conjured up names like Moroni and the phantom Golden Tablets. As with Moroni, the Golden Tablets never existed.

3. Flaws in the basic foundations of the major Christian religions to include Mormonism are to be immediately memorized and used to remind yourself of the delusions of those who preceded you.

a. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

b. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

c. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Wikipedia lists Mormons at restorationist Christians, that's good enough for me.

In summary:

"Is it Christian for a Christian to narrowly define Christian such that a more broadly, self-defined Christian isn't a Christian?"

RMI, I happen to think that some of you assertions were ridiculous, but as with all things academic, interpretations are subjective. We will never agree so I don't see the point in wasting either of our time. But in the future, it would be *great* if you could refrain from assuming that if someone agrees with you, they are correct and enlightened. I did read through all your statements, and, incredibly, still found them ridiculous.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions on any religion, but just remember that all members of any religion or any other group are still human first, and worthy of some some respect instead of mockery and belittling for their personal beliefs.

I am a mormon and I won't be voting for Mitt Romney. I am not voting for him because I don't agree with his politics. I resent that news agencies are using my faith to stir up controversy and promote hate among this nation. Religious prejudice is still alive and well, and trust me if it is practiced you will pay for it for along time. Just ask us Mormons, no matter how much you try, we can never, never get away from polygamy, the black issue, and others. Just remember, all you Christians out there. What goes around, comes around.

I am a mormon and I won't be voting for Mitt Romney. I am not voting for him because I don't agree with his politics. I resent that news agencies are using my faith to stir up controversy and promote hate among this nation. Religious prejudice is still alive and well, and trust me if it is practiced you will pay for it for along time. Just ask us Mormons, no matter how much you try, we can never, never get away from polygamy, the black issue, and others. Just remember, all you Christians out there. What goes around, comes around.

WOW! Such a firm stand by everyone on their opinions. I didn't sense much humility, or forgiveness, or compassion. Just dogmatic opinions from one good christian to another I guess.

Why Mormons Are Not Christian.

First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a different Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.

The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":

"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."

The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man.

Read more...
http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm

Thanks Parker,

I will get back to you on this.

Palooza,

Let's have it. I'm a big boy. Which of the "things" that I asserted were asinine? Then, we can measure how well qualified I might be.

You don't comprehend what you read very well, do you? (and you make assumptions too readily - just an observation - would you like for me to demonstrate your rush to assume?)

Intolerant? Certainly I'm intolerant. In regard to this thread, I am intolerant of people being misled by conartists.

Using your reasoning, we would have ignored people like Jim Jones and Warren Jeffs.

I disagree with you with respect to your opinion that my opinions are bigoted. Nevertheless, lets have it. Why, exactly, do you have that opinion?

(Note - I am bigoted toward murderers, thieves, liars, paedophiles, rapists, etc. so, if that is your basis, well....... I proudly raise my hand)

Or, you can stop bothering me and I will return the same courtesy.

RMI, I merely asked about your intentions because, with all due respect, some of the things you asserted as asinine. You have your personal choices regarding your own spirituality to deal with, but I'm not sure that you are qualified to tell Mormons or any other member of any religion what they believe.

Don't want to believe in any religion or any god? Fine. Don't. But it is incredibly intolerant for anyone to tell someone else that they are brainwashed or evil or even sadly misguided because they have chosen to follow one particular faith. If you had made similar comments related to homosexuals or members of a minority group, you would be rightly labeled a bigot. Making those same comments about a religion you choose not believe still makes your opinions bigoted.

Are Mormons Christians?

http://www.allaboutmormons.com/ENG_Video46.php

RMI,
The link is: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/michael_otterson/2007/08/an_inexhaustibe_treasure.html

RMI,
I thought of a possible way to see "what we know of the Bible." I started with the Old Testament, and quoted the scriptures I especially like that I could bring to mind on a timed basis, typed them in Word, then pasted a comment as the last entry on the comments section of Michael Otterson's response from several weeks ago about favorite scriptures. I didn't do the New Testament yet. If you want to do the same, let me know. Have a nice day.

I only have one thing to say regarding these posts. Those of you claiming to be real Christians ought to be ashamed of youselves for being so judgemental. One and only One will judge, and that is Christ Himself. So with the time you put into tearing other religions and Americans apart, perhaps you "christians" should take a look inside yourselves and ask youselves if you are truly following Christ's example.

I think I've read every comment regarding this article. Here's what I've concluded.

There is a lot of Hate, Fear, Bigotry, Ignorance, Arrogance, Stupidty, and last, but not least, a total lack of manners/civility associated with 90% of the above posts.

It's really disheartning to know that we are going to be at each others throats until Jesus Christ comes and saves (salvages) what's left of humanity.

Or we could just drop all the macho finger pointing, and help this nation re-gain its post-war glory by serving (loving) one another.

Peter: Like the TV ads say, "they are all that, and MORE!"

BTW, "Game Over," thank you for reminding me why I could no longer stand being like you and instead became a Mormon.

The real question that everyone should be asking--are Evangelicals religious bigots, bumbling idiots, or both? Please enlighten me.

If Christians continue to criticize the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints then they should not be called Christians anymore. If today is the final judgement day, they shall be punished for not following Christ's commandments. Where is your Christ-like compassion? Make your own research and pray about it. You've wasted your time criticizing the Mormons and their own peculiar beliefs. Look at the mirror and say I am a child of God. How can you pray to our Father in Heaven to love you while you don't show love to others? The LDS have done more to help others than many of these self-righteous evangelists.

If Christians continue to criticize the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints then they should not be called Christians anymore. If today is the final judgement day, they shall be punished for not following Christ's commandments. Where is your Christ-like compassion? Make your own research and pray about it. You've wasted your time criticizing the Mormons and their own peculiar beliefs. Look at the mirror and say I am a child of God. How can you pray to our Father in Heaven to love you while you don't show love to others? The LDS have done more to help others than many of these self-righteous evangelists.

Fred:
I give up. What are you?

J Golden Rockwell:
Chill, Kieth is just demonstrating the flip flopping nature of your cult.

Palooza:
Had you read my posts for content, you would have seen that I stated clearly that I am NOT a Christian, i.e., NOT a bible thumper (maybe I am a Bible-thumper thumper :) ). Further, you would have learned that I included only one url to demonstrate how easy it is (there being millions of urls) to learn all sorts of facts and views on a topic (of course, buyer beware).

BTW, thank you for providing the choice of "freedom from religion". Central to this discussion is that, as Romney indicated in his speech, SLC has no intention of supporting freedom from religion.

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:
Hang there, Liberated. Enjoyed your post.

Kevin:
No, you are not a follower of Jesus. You are a follower of Joseph Smith who made up all sorts of fables.

Jose:
No, you are mistaken about yourself and your family. Please see my note to Kevin.

Brad:
Your cult teaches that it is the singular true representative of Jesus, the same Jesus whose life as a human was recorded in the gospels of the New Testament by the apostles: Mark, Luke, John and Matthew.

Your cult teaches that Christians who do not accept the fables of Joseph Smith to be gentiles - you even teach that the Hebrews are gentiles (is this very nice?). How nutty can one be? (This in addition to what I wrote above.)

erinannie:
You and I have exchanged thoughts before. I have stated before that I do respect your expression, if not your beliefs, and I have always thought that you write with a style that comes across as "heartfelt", i.e. I believe that you are among the "innocents" that are doing their very best to be a good person and pleasing to her Creator. I do not want take away your childlike, innocent belief in Mormonism. To do so would only leave you hurt, confused, and without spiritual support.

You leave me alone and I will provide you the same courtesy.

Parker: I do not know how a dialogue would be arranged. Suggestions? At the outset, I do not have the same feelings about the bible as you; I would likely not find a such a dialogue delightful. Nevertheless, a "closed book, no note, from memory" "dialogue" (to use your words) might be interesting. I'll be back to see what your suggestions might be.

micah:
Me too. Just to be clear. You seem to be making the argument that there are very good people - Christian-like people - that are also practicing Mormons. I know this to be absolutely true and I am happy that you had/have such a law-partner.

If you are making the argument that your partner is a Christian, you are attempting to defend a defenseless position. Thank you for your post.

manaen: Is there a body of evidence that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John actually existed? How about Peter and Paul? Might the New Testament have some credibility? Ok.

Is there any body of evidence as remotely credible to support the fables of Joseph Smith? Isn't the body of evidence that the foundations of Mormonism are, at best, the imaginings of a sad little boy? or worse, the work of confidence men/women?

You may call yourself Christian, you may behave in a Christian-like manner. This is all very nice; but you are a member of a cult (personally, I think that you may be a better person - more pleasing to your Creator than most Christians that belong to non-cult Christian bodies - or perhaps you are not).

A Happy Yuletide each and everyone

Attn: "Concerned"

My wife says that if you ever had a clue, you must have broken it and lost half the pieces.

I didn't want to tell you that, but she required me to do so (instead of saying what I originally planned to say).

. . .so much for "subservience" and "doing my bidding wherever and whenever" . . .

. . .but you already KNOW that you're lying. I just wanted everyone else to know it also.

Alex,

Apparently your wife is one lucky woman considering your Mormon "right" to subjugate her.

What a wonderful article. I wish we had more stories like this one going around. There are so many assumptions made still today and i am amazed at how many people see The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a cult, it is so 18th 19th century to me when will this world wakeup and smell the 20th century for what it really can be a place where all man, woman and children can worship whom how and wherever they please. I live in Sydney and my mother-in-law went to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Sydney Australian Temple last weet for a meeting and discovered that the nativity scene that has been used for many years now had graffiti on it. Black spray paint covered the whole face of the baby doll that represented Jesus and the eyes and parts of the faces of the manikins representing Mary, Joseph and the three wise man were sprayed black even the animals were sprayed on and the word ‘Satan’ was written on the sign out side the front of the grounds that told people that this was a house of the Lord. It brought tears to my eyes as I saw those photos and I pray that the people/person responsible will on day learn to be more open minded and learns to respect other peoples believes. For me the word 'Christian' should mean nothing more then someone who believes in Christ the babe born from Bethlehem no matter how they see him now.

Always a faithful Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

I love, believe, and follow Jesus Christ of Nazareth and I accept Him as my personal Savior.

What am I?

Concerned,

I'll have to inform my wife that we were both wrong. Apparently she is supposed to be subservient to me at doing my bidding, wherever and whenever. I guess I should have been following this strawman Mormonism rather than the real teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

J. Golden Rockwell,

Of course, I read the paragraph. In summary: Mormon women are still subservient to Mormon men doing their bidding wherever and whenever.

Well said, Brother Otterson. Might I double underline your quote:

"For Latter-day Saints who try to live their lives as they believe Jesus taught, assertions that they aren’t Christian are as bewildering as they are wounding."

I am a Latter-day Saint and have been taught from birth to not only hold fast to my own faith, but to respect the differing faith of others. When I see others attacking my religion I conclude that it must be out of fear. Why else would someone who is truly religious or deeply spiritual seek to tear down another...something that goes against the heart of any religion?

I pray for the day when we all can, as Paul said in Ephesians, "...come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God..."

Until then, these attacks will only divide, alienate and demean *all* people of faith.

From MSNBC:

"The bad news for Romney is that he is getting blown out in Iowa, where he spent too much time and money. He and Rudy have to hope that the ol’ prosecutor himself, Fred Thompson, is willing to step up and try to take down Huckabee. Romney’s hopes now rest not in Iowa, but in New Hampshire, where he would have to make his stand. Huckabee is the revenge of history on the GOP. PARTY STRATEGISTS BUILT THE BASE ON EVANGELICALS IN THE SOUTH. NOW THEY WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE RESULTS."

The good news is that bigotry is coming to light. The bad news is evangelicals will not learn to behave like christians until after the election.

I read many of these posts with an increasing degree of laughter. Those of you out there who profess to "know" about Mormons make me laugh at your very high degree of stupidity. Case in point: 'Yes But' posted that Joseph Smith got the Gold plates from an "Indian Mound" and that Mormons believe that.

It's funny that I have always been taught that what we call the "Hill Cumorah" is a Drumlin. A remnant of the ice sheet that covered much of North America during the last ice age. I've never heard of it being an Indian Mound.

For that comment and many others, Yes But strains credibility.

As Otterson said, if you want to know what a Mormon believes, ask a Mormon. Don't believe your preacher or your teacher or your anti/ex-Mormon. They all have an agenda.

The agenda of the LDS Church as stated time and time again by it's leaders is to, "Bring people to Christ." You don't like it? Go and soak your head.

"By their fruits ye shall know them..."

Words to apply towards politicians and religions.

Wow -- the mormophobia continues!

I'll just offer the Lord's words about The Book of Mormon:

Moroni 10:
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your chearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the btruth of all things.

Just ask God! Don't believe an LDS or an opponent of the restored gospel -- just ask God.

Attn: Keith Edwards

Why the fixation on polygamy?

To answer your questions:

"1) Isn't true Joseph said the God told him to lead people into polygamy [adultery]??"

Yes he did, but no, it was NOT adultery.

The Bible is full of examples of God-given polygamy, including the 700 wives of Solomon and Deuteronomy 21:15, which says "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."

"2) Do YOU really believe God told Joseph to lead your body into polygamy?"

Yes. Do YOU really believe that God told Solomon that he could have 700 wives?

"3) If you all are so proud of your prophet, then why is the Mormon church of today so ashamed of polygamy ?"

Where did you get the idea that we are ashamed of polygamy? We don't practice it any more, but neither do most Jews. Are Jews ashamed of polygamy?

"4) Why does your president prophet try to distance Mormons from their polygamy past in his speeches?"

Because there are other things to talk about which are more important than something which hasn't been practiced for over a century. We also don't spent a lot of time discussing the election of Woodrow Wilson to the presidency.

Now, let me ask you, why are you so worried about other people's marriages in the first place? Even if we were practicing polygamy today, what makes this such a problem in your mind?

To Keith David:
You haven't read the Old Testament, have you?

I love how all of these people who know little about the LDS church are telling us what we believe. Get a clue people! If you want to know whether the Mormons are Christian try living our beliefs for a year. I guarantee you will know!

I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments and their distinct views about mormonism and politics. I wanted to express my thoughts on some of the points that have been made. I understand that for many, the LDS faith is mysterious. I would like to clarify a few things. We believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a "new" church, but rather the same Church that Christ established while on the earth. Like Christ's original church, apostles and prophets have been called to preach of Christ to all the world. Thus there are nearly 60,000 missionaries "proclaiming the gospel" to the entire world as Christ commanded before his asention to heaven. We do not try to tear down others' beliefs, rather we strive to add the knowledge we have that has been restored. The accounts of angelic messengers may seem strange, but remember, angels proclaimed Christ's birth in the New Testament. The fact that we believe in 3 seperate beings affirms the account of Christ's baptism where the Father spoke from heaven, declaring Christ as his son. In addition, the holy ghost was manifested in the form of a dove. I would ask anyone who sincerely wants to know more about the LDS faith to obtain a copy of the Book of Mormon and study it for themselves. That is the promise the book gives, that you may know the truthfullness of all things. Find out for yourself what the Church teaches rather than believing every misconception. At this time of year, let us all remember who it was that was born into this world to redeem all who would follow him. For additional info. please visit mormon.org

I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments and their distinct views about mormonism and politics. I wanted to express my thoughts on some of the points that have been made. I understand that to many, the LDS faith is mysterious. I would like to clarify a few things. We believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a "new" church, but rather the same Church that Christ established while on the earth. Like Christ's original church, apostles and prophets have been called to preach of Christ to all the world. Thus there are nearly 60,000 missionaries "proclaiming the gospel" to the entire world as Christ commanded before his asention to heaven. We do not try to tear down others' beliefs, rather we strive to add the knowledge we have that has been restored. The accounts of angelic messengers may seem strange, but remember, angels proclaimed Christ's birth in the New Testament. The fact that we believe in 3 seperate beings affirms the account of Christ's baptism where the Father spoke from heaven, declaring Christ as his son. In addition, the holy ghost was manifested in the form of a dove. I would ask anyone who sincerely wants to know more about the LDS faith to obtain a copy of the Book of Mormon and study it for themselves. That is the promise the book gives, that you may know the truthfullness of all things. Find out for yourself what the Church teaches rather than believing every misconception. At this time of year, let us all remember who it was that was born into this world to redeem all who would follow him. For additional info. please visit mormon.org

Mormons? Romney? Insidious! Are you for real?

I've read through most of the posts and am rather shocked at that "good christians" will say to defend their idea of what will get them into heaven. I'm also surprised that you Bible thumpers are so anxious to attack instead of proffering Christ-like love to those you think are lost sheep.

I also agree that if you have any questions about a religion, the best place to find information is from the source. Reading websites built by ex-members or anti-religious groups is never a good idea. Take it from the source, and then decide if it's right for you.

I'm still floored that this nation founded on religious freedom (or freedom from religion, if you choose) would be having this type of discussion in the 21st century.

I find it interesting that others will go to extreme lengths to prove that LDS beliefs are wrong. Why? What are you scared about? Every religion has different theologies. The question that should be asked is does that religion make you a better person.

1. Mormons stress a healthy lifestyle including abstinence from alcohol, coffee, tea and tobacco. Is this a bad thing?
2. Mormons stress no sex before marriage? Think about all of the children born out of marriage. Is this a bad thing to wait until marriage?
3. Mormons stress the importance of families where children are taught to get an education, be good members of society. Is this a bad thing?
4. Mormons are one of the first groups to respond to disasters with food and supplies. After Katrina thousands of Mormons came from all over the country to assist in the clean up. My father drove from Florida to LA 3 or 4 times to help. Why? Because we are taught to take care of those in need and to serve others. Is this a bad thing?
5. Mormons are taught to be self sufficient? In a day when everyone is trying to get a free lunch Mormons stress the importance of getting out of debt and having a food supply in case of a catastrophe or loss of job so the government doesn't have to take care of you. Is this a bad thing?

I could go on an on but everyone wants to focus on a few things in LDS history that are negatives. Why?

Oh, BTW, "Concerned," you make comments about how women are treated in then Church, then cite a Wikipedia reference. Did you read it, especially this part?

"Women also have retained a certain degree of authority in some areas, including a number of leadership positions, which include authority over children or other women, although these women leaders are subject to supervision and guidance by priesthood-holding leaders. Women are "endowed" with priesthood power, but are not ordained as clergy. Though not considered clergy, women play a significant part in the operation of local congregations. Women teach classes to adults, teenagers, and children. Women also organise social, educational, and humanitarian activities. Women may also serve as missionaries, and a select few may perform certain ordinances such as washing and anointing on behalf of women in Latter-day Saint temples. Unofficially, wives of male clergy also often play an indirect leadership role by influencing and counseling their husbands."

The OT, NT, Koran and the Book are Mormon are all flawed because of the historical problems with the founders and foundations of the associated religions.

Once again the "Flaw" synopsis:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus. Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians (e.g. Code of Hammurabi), Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.
And who funds these acts of terror?

The warmongering, Islamic Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.

ATTN: Concerned

Let me tell you a couple of things about women and Mormonism.

First, we do not follow the fundamentalist doctrine that women are to "remain silent" and not teach in church.

If you visit to Temple Square in Salt Lake City (the headquarters of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) you will be guided and given a basic understanding of our doctrines by women -- "sister" missionaries who come here from all over the world.

Continuing your tour, you will see that the building closest to the front door of our most sacred the Temple was built for the Relief Society, our women's organization. Look as hard as you like, you won't find any building there which was built for a men's organization, not even for the highest "quorum" of our Priesthood.

The Temple itself is used for ordinances of an eternal nature, binding the family together for time and for all eternity. Our doctrines state that no man may reach the highest levels of Heaven without his eternal companion, nor she without him. In cases of divorce, the Temple sealing can only be canceled by request of the wife -- the husband can't do it.

Women in this church are called to serve missions, teach, give community service and the other things which the Lord calls men to do -- everything which doesn't require the Priesthood.

A Relief Society joke asks: "Why do men get the Priesthood and not women? To make things even!"

An Elders' Quorum joke: "The man is the head of the household, but the woman is the NECK! She holds him up and helps him face the right way."

We also don't segregate our Sacrament or adult Sunday School meetings in any way (including seating arrangements). When you come attend our services, sit where you like, as a member or visitor.

I suggest that you do that -- visit your local LDS services next Sunday. That will let you see what we are really like, and give you some idea of what we believe. Don't be surprised if the two missionaries assigned in that "ward" (a geographic area, like a Catholic parish) are sister missionaries from some other country, who are paying their own way to serve here. We don't pay our missionaries (or anyone else) to preach the Gospel.

Even President Hinckley, our Prophet, is not paid to preach -- he lives in a simple apartment near his office and the Temple -- so you won't have the embarrassment of everyone watching what you put in the plate (we don't pass one).

The best way to address concerns is head-on. When you see what we really do, you will laugh at what you have been told.

Once again, the usual kooks (and their audiences) come out of the woodwork to "prove" that Mormons aren't Christian, according to the Bible. They will quote you chapter and verse, word for word.

Mormons, you see, are considered a "cult" because we believe in the Bible "as far as it is translated correctly" rather than believing that it is word-for-word, 100% accurate, inerrant and complete.

The real amusing part is that the "perfect" Bible was compiled at the END of the FOURTH CENTURY, by a group of Catholic and Orthodox priests. Most of the anti-Mormons also use the Bible to "prove" that Catholics aren't Christians!

And which of the several versions of the Bible is the "perfect" one? Most of these people say that it is the King James Version (KJV). The problem is that there were six different versions of the KJV, and there are the modern translations, NONE OF WHICH AGREE WITH THE OTHERS.

I ran into one of these "KJV is perfect" oddballs a while back, preaching that all other versions of the Bible are wrong, including all non-English versions (which also don't agree with the KJV).

To add to the confusion, there are NO ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS of any of the books in the Bible. The priests in the 4th Century had to work from copies of copies of copies, trying to figure out which were the most accurate due to the errors that had cropped up over the years. They largely relied on inspiration and prayer to figure this out, then made their best guess.

How could such a book be 100% perfect? And if the root is not perfect, how can any translation, especially one done 1000 years later, become perfect?

The oddballs will tell you that "all true Christian doctrine" is found in the Bible. This begs the question -- where does the Bible say this?

For that matter, the reason that they say Mormons aren't Christian is because we don't believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are the same entity. This doctrine is not found anywhere in the Bible, and in fact came along in the 3rd and 4th centuries.

The Jesus of the Bible says the exact opposite, and even asks God to release Him from His mission, but says that that He will follow the commandments of our Father (". . .not as I will, but as thou wilt . . .").

I once had an anti-Mormon smugly tell me "I guess we just don't believe in the same Jesus." I guess not -- the Jesus that I believe in is found in the Bible, not in the Nicene Creed.

Given just these simple things, it becomes obvious that the critics of Mormonism are themselves not truly Christians, as proven by their own "perfect" Bible.

A few weeks ago, I attended the LDS Church temple. I had a marvelous experience there and I drove home with love for my Father in Heaven and my Savior, Jesus Christ in my heart. My desire to be obedient to the Lord grew in my heart. I know they live, for I have felt their presence near. I had communed with my Father in Heaven through the Spirit, and it happened exactly as Joseph Smith said it would. My joy was full.

But apparently the Lord and I are mistaken, because a little bit later that day, I sat down at the computer and read a blog commenting on how deceived I am. The commenter wrote as if he were defending Christ from the likes of me, while flamboyantly defending his Bible so as not to let it be defiled by a lunatic Mormon.

I have found that one of life's ironies is that direct experience with heaven brings with it simultaneously the finger of scorn. It creates a paradoxical pinch, wherein we are tested as to whether we can abide the comforting Spirit of heaven and the ridicule of the ignorant simultaneously. How we choose to react when the ridicule of the world belies our own experience with the divine is a great measure of our devotion to God.

Some say God is dead, that He is silent, that He does not speak to men today, that there could not be a prophet of God nor Apostles of Jesus Christ today. So what would those very people say to this very blog which is the fulfillment of modern prophecy. See http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/33#33
Don't just let your pastor, with his personal conflict-of-interest, do your research for you. Read The Book Of Mormon for yourself. It is the only way you will know who is feeding you a pile of doggy dew and who is for real. Study it out. Ask God if it is true yourself. See for yourself how The Book of Mormon testifies of the truthfulness and need of the Bible. Learn for yourself where the Bible testifies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. It might surprise you to learn that the so called "Mormons", who are actually members of The Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints may be the only group of people who actually believe the Bible wholeheartedly, without feeling that James petition to show your faith by your works and John's assertion that we will be judged and classified by our works is in any way contradictory with Paul's assertion that ye are saved by the grace and cleansing power of Jesus Christ's blood shed for you. Jesus died for me. I know that. He did so much for me that I wish to follow Him as best I can, come what may. Do I exhibit the love He offered me? Do I love my neighbor? Do I love God and His Son Jesus Christ? Do I forgive others their trespasses? Do I respect others who do not fully share my beliefs? Have I spiritually been born of God and taken upon myself His countenance? These are the best tests of who is a Christian, and who is not. It goes beyond words and can only be truly manifest in actions.

Parker, Parker, Parker,

The LDS Relief Society's members have been Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Mormonism's Joe Smith/Moroni mumbo jumbo. No doubt all Mormon women are expected to join the Society just as they are expected not to question the authority of the all male, past and current Mormon "profits". There is hope, however, for them via the easy Three Step Program for "Deflawing" Mormonism i.e.

1. Moroni was a "pretty wingie talking fictional thingie and all references to him in the Book of Mormon should be deleted.

2. Joe Smith suffered from signficant hallucinations/drinking binges. During these episodes in conjured up names like Moroni and the phantom Golden Tablets. As with Moroni, the Golden Tablets never existed.

3. Flaws in the basic foundations of the major Christian religions to include Mormonism are to be immediately memorized and used to remind yourself of the delusions of those who preceded you.

a. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

b. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

c. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

And Parker, I have had no religious struggles in my past, only a great desire to get at the truth as ingrained in me by the many male and female teachers in my life.

I'm glad Jesus (yes, the very Jesus all "Christians" say they worship/believe in--and yet disagree with each other and place themselves above other "Christians" because they believe they have a superior understanding of who Christ is)...

As I was saying, I'm glad Jesus will be the one to ultimately decide who is a Christian and who is not. ;)

I think he may be the only one truly cut out for this business of judging others...and yet, from all the self-righteous banter...we all seem so eager to do.

A Christian train is on the Christian track. It's conductor guides the train through myriads of connections. Then he dies. The train is left to others who may not know the route quite as well as the master conductor, but they do the very best they can to keep it on track. They steer the train through junction after junction after junction over centuries of time and millions of additional connections. Then one day those on the Christian train, which is now in South Timbuktu, see a shiny sleek train on a totally different track up north. Those on the traditional train are appalled that the newcomers on this northern train would say the traditionalist had taken a few wrong turns and are far off course. But the traditionalists argue that the northern train is laughably the one off course, in fact, should not even be considered a Christian train at all because it is so far away from them. The northern train is indeed on an entirely different track, but one must take a step back to realize which is truly following the master conductor. If a people worship Christ, talk of Christ, and attempt with all their souls to walk in His footsteps, they just might be able to be classified as His followers, no matter how far away they are from the traditional followers who have tried to remain on the train even though it may have missed a connection here or there.
Trains veer off course occasionally without the travelers ever realizing it. Look at the Jews at the time of Christ. Look at the pre-reformation Dark ages. Then look in the mirror today. Be careful who you consider to be laughably off course because you could be staring at him in that mirror.
Ever ask yourself why hundreds of thousands get their tickets punched and climb on the northern train each year? They see something there. Best check it out yourself. If you just point and laugh and degrade and huff and puff, you do yourself a major disservice. Go to Mormon.org to get your questions answered. This train is going somewhere.

Ok, I'm LDS and I'm not a "Christian".

There, does that make every happy?

Instead I'll describe myself as a "Follower of Jesus Christ".

Concerned,
Thanks for asking a legitimate question in an area that provokes a great deal of misinformation. The question might be worded, "How come more women join the LDS Church than men and always have, and how come many LDS best-seller books are written by women if they feel slighted in their role in the church?" The short answer is, most don't. A few do, and they struggle with not having women in every phase of leadership. Yet the LDS Church has the largest women's organization in the world (the Relief Society).

I don't get the feeling that most LDS women feel subservient to men in any way. Some may feel marginalized in how they are treated in their own home or in leadership roles, but not if the men in those situations are practicing what they are taught by LDS Church leaders and scriptures. Some men are still getting over the age-old, abhorrent cultural bias that still exists in some cultural backgrounds and family backgrounds.

Concerned, what is your cultural background and family background? Perhaps you are asking the question because you have detected a struggle in this area in your own ancestry or traditions? I hope the women you know from your past and present are as assertive and eloquent as leaders, "movers and shakers" in their community and world as are the women in the LDS Church.

Thirty years ago I was a Baptist. Because of the hipocracy and evil politics of that church I quit. About a week later a Mormon missionary knocked on my door. At that time I was open to listen to his message. He told a story about a young man who didn't understand the religions of the day and which one to join. I accepted what I was taught,read the Book of Mormon, and joined the LDS church about two weeks later. My sister, brother-in-law, and my father came to my house and screamed a lot about me being a member of a "Cult" and all sorts of other garbage.

I laughed at all of them while they, including my wife, were in tears. I know that what my wife and I did by joining the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was the right thing for us to do. What I didn't know was how evil and ignorant were the teachings of other "Christian" Churches. The idea of the Trinity with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost being ONE is truly incredible. Other beliefs such as the Bible being the only true words of God, and that we don't need a Prophet in such perilous times as these are equally absurd.

While saying all this I have no problem with anyone calling himself a Christian. This was originally a word of derision coined by people who hated the Saints who followed Jesus. Christ always called his followers "Saints". "Christian" means anyone who believes in Jesus Christ. That covers us. If you don't think so, go to your nearest LDS church any Sunday and find out for yourself. The preachers who wrote the derogatory remarks contained in these comments will be even angrier!

More questions about Mormonism and women:

Hmmm, strange that Mitt has not been castigated here to any degree about the Mormon views toward women.

From: www.exmormon.org/mormwomn.htm

"Many religions have recently begun changing in an attempt to equalize the roles and responsibilities of men and women. Mormonism is one of the exceptions. The Mormon position on women has changed little since the early 1800's, when the official view was that "woman's primary place is in the home, where she is to rear children and abide by the righteous counsel of her husband" (McConkie 844). This attitude, coupled with the doctrine of polygamy and the absolute power claimed by the men of the church, created a legacy of profound sexism which modern Mormonism has been unable to escape.

Mormonism has created an ingenious system of oppression, in which opposition towards men is tantamount to arguing with God. The Mormon religion makes no distinction between clergy and laity, at least with regard to men (Laake 9). All Mormon men are ordained as members of the "priesthood," with the absolute authority to preach the gospel, bestow blessings, prophecy, perform healings and baptisms, and generally speak for God. "Their priesthood gives them the right to advise and instruct the Saints (i.e., Mormons), and their jurisdiction extends over all things spiritual and temporal" (Snowden 134).

At age twelve, boys become members of the Aaronic, or lesser priesthood, and at nineteen become eligible for the Melchezedek, or higher priesthood. Members of either priesthood are higher authorities on everything than are non-members. Women are, of course, excluded from the priesthood. This practice in effect says that a woman's prepubescent son is more qualified to advise her than she is to advise him. The official explanation is that women are kept from having the priesthood because women are more spiritual than men, therefore, men need to have the priesthood to teach them how to be better people (Johnson 86). Women are also told that, because they have the all- important ability to bear children, men need the power of the priesthood merely to remain equal with them."

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_Mormonism

A more balanced view???

OK, you Mormons out there, what sayest thou? Please however do not invoke St. Paul's views on women. Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, Rabbi Paul, has already addressed that situation.

To wit:

Professor Chilton pulls no punches in criticizing one of the founders of Christianity. Basically Paul was a "prude". An excerpt for Chilton's book,

"He (Paul) feared the turn-on of women's voices as much as the sight of their hair and skin..... At one point he even suggests that the sight of female hair might distract any "pretty wingie talking fictional thingies" in church attendance (1 Cor. 11:10). Simply add Paul's thinking about women to the list of flaws in the foundations of Christianity.

Professor Chilton btw is a Professor of Religion at Bard College and a priest at the Free Church of St. John in Barrytown, NY.

Hmmm, do you think maybe that Mohammed's scribes simply enhanced Paul's thinking about women when they wrote the koran??? Absolutely!!!!

Iam mormon my family and I are CHRISTIAN.

Wow, talk about vitriol and misinformation. I never realized how much my faith is despised. I will say that I have taught Sunday School in the LDS church for the last several years. For the last two years I have taught exclusively from the Old and New Testament of the King James version of the Bible. Frankly, I was curious to see how "Mormon Doctrine" stood up to the Bible and made it a point to focus my teaching on the Bible itself and not refer to the Book of Mormon except on rare occasions. The vast majority of Mormon Doctrine is Biblical, like it or not. Teaching of Christ and of his resurrection and atonement was some of the most rewarding and spiritual opportunities I have ever had.

About Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. In the Book of Mormon, there is a Book titled Jacob. In Jacob chapter 5, is a discussion called "the allegory of the olive tree." For all of you critical of the Book of Mormon as a fraud, I suggest you find a copy and read this. In this allegory, there is detailed reference to the culture of olive trees, to include pruning, grafting, etc., used to describe a history of the House of Israel. How many olive trees were there in New York in 1820? Where was Joseph Smith supposed to have acquired knowledge of olive tree culture sufficient to spin it in to a detailed religious allegory? (He was a young man, with a limited education, when the Book of Mormon was produced). The more likely author was someone more familiar with olive culture. Check it out. It is pretty amazing.

What is sad to me is that Mitt Romney's religion is even an issue. The values he carries from being a Mormon should be attractive to many Americans. Yet many will not look past preconceived and misinformed notions about his faith. It may get in the way of our country making a proper choice for president.

To Romney? Mormons? Insidious

I see little purpose in attempting to debate or talk with you, when you seem hell bent on twisting words so as to serve your purposes.

You suggested-

1. Mormons are a cult similiar to the Branch Dividians or Jonestown.
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not live in compounds, do not fight against the government, and do not hide away from mainstream society. We are in no way similar to the cults you have mentioned.

2. You claim that Mormons are jailed for their immoralities, and yet only offer one example- Joseph Smith. The Prophet Joseph Smith was not charged with a crime, and yet was in jail. A mob came and began shooting at him and the others in his jail cell. His brother was killed. Joseph was killed by a mob as he jumped from a window fleeing the lawless mob trying to kill him(NOT by law enforcement officials).

3. You ask if we can imagine Jesus trying to flee the law. No, we cannot. Christ was not a criminal, but was crucified because non-believers did not like what he had to say. Can you not see the similarities to how Joseph Smith was killed? He had broken no laws, done nothing wrong. And yet he was killed because people didn't like what he said.

4. Again you suggest that Brigham Young took his cult and fled the law. Are you not familiar with the Extermination Order in Missouri? The Mormons were ordered out of Missouri, and if one was seen, they could be shot or "exterminated." After Joseph Smith was killed Brigham Young became the new head of the LDS Church. The departure for the west took several months and years to organize. It did not happen over night.

5. When did the US government ever take over a church? And tell them how to worship? This claim of yours is so preposterous and fabricated that I have no way of responding to it.

6. Polygamy- Yes, Mormons call Polygamy plural marriage. Is that not what polygamy is? And yes, the US government outlawed polygamy in another direct effort to hurt and punish Mormons. So much for freedom of religion.

7. As you yourself have said polygamy/plural marriage was ended over 100 years ago. Anyone practicing it now is expelled from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Why does this practice continue to be