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a case in which it is clear that Gillian Gibbons did not intend to malign the Prophet Muhammad and that the children in her class had chosen the name Muhammad for their class teddy-bear, some might still question why she was not more culturally sensitive to a potential backlash

What breath-taking (and weasely) apologists.

Couldn't agree more!! Can we envisiion the cultural icons of the world/s religions - name them - lighting the fire at the inquisition - lashing the teracher in the Sudan - not comforting and supporting that poor girl in Saudi Arabia? Why is there alwasy such a lack of humanity among religious extremists? Why are thes folks - something like our own evangelists in the USA determined to relive the Middle Ages?

Ender, Ender, Ender,

You noted: "Neither xtianity nor judaism are as "flawless" as you seem to think."

I noted they were being "deflawed". Neither is close to being "flawless".

With respect to Israel, your "beef" is with the UN who established the State of Israel in 1948.

With respect to who were the original owners of the lands of Palestine, we must go back 40,000 years to find the original settlers. Tough to say but the Hittites and Canaanites are probably as close as we can get. Got any of their genes in your DNA?

Again with respect to original settlements, you are currently living on American Indian land. When are you moving???

) atrocities such as the trans-atlantic slave trade, the colonial raping and pillaging of an entire continent - Africa (not to mention other Southern hemisphere nations);

It is sad so many people do not know history. It was the arab and african muslims that sold and murdered over 120,000,000 million africans. It was the west and the white west at that that had to war against the arabs and africans to stop slavery. Slavery is still alive in arab africa as I type. Islam was and is the problem. Read the koran and find the truth. As for the number of muslims. Over 50% of muslims can not read. 25% of the 50 that can do not read arabic. They do not know what the koran says. It is a manifesto of war and hatred.

) atrocities such as the trans-atlantic slave trade, the colonial raping and pillaging of an entire continent - Africa (not to mention other Southern hemisphere nations);

It is sad so many people do not know history. It was the arab and african muslims that sold and murdered over 120,000,000 million africans. It was the west and the white west at that that had to war against the arabs and africans to stop slavery. Slavery is still alive in arab africa as I type. Islam was and is the problem. Read the koran and find the truth. As for the number of muslims. Over 50% of muslims can not read. 25% of the 50 that can do not read arabic. They do not know what the koran says. It is a manifesto of war and hatred.

I see both writers are from the Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, a think tank that is essentially Saudi funded and to promote Islam.

Ah, but where is the equivalent "think tank" in Saudi Arabia?

Indeed, when a million Catholics in Saudi Arabia are denied churches and risk deportation for privately worshipping in their own homes, it seems to me that their statement "there can never be an acceptable excuse for injustice and intolerance in the name of our religions" is a bit absurd.

Denial of Muslim moral backwardness used to struck me as odd and ignorant. But since 9/11, it is only laughable and ridiculous! That was my reaction to Espositio and Voll’s column (Nov, 30, 2007)

In his many books on religion, the late Princeton philosopher Walter Kaufmann, often used Islamic doctrine to illustrate the fact that not all religions say the same thing – such as the Koranic penalty for apostasy: death – a fact brighter people than Esposito and Voll keep in mind when Ayatollah Khomeini’s fatwa against Salman Rushdie is mentioned.

Another smart man is retired philosophy professor Antony Flew, who, after the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, predicted another more devastating attack on that morally offensive edifice.

How did he divine this accurate prediction, so many years before 9/11? By reading what British Muslims were writing and advocating. Clearly, Esposito and Voll need to get out more if mere philosophers are so easily and often wiser than "learned" Mid-East scholars like them.

I just don't understand all the hand wringing and moaning that takes place on the left [amongst whom I count myself]. Why should the West be sensitive to the outrageous religions sensibilities of Islam. I simply don't understand how validating or excusing the behavior encourages discourse. We need to think of a way to empower and encourage the moderates within Islam rather than either try to bomb them into submission or bend over backward in our guilt over Imperialism. The person who posted above about how accepting of other religions Islam is needs a reality check. Both Christianity and Islam are, at base, Imperialistic and have a driving need to convert or destroy the infidels. Fortunately, at least for now, the Christians have been defanged by secularism - until there is a parallel movement within Islam, I believe that we are in for some rough times.

Neither xtianity nor judaism are as "flawless" as you seem to think.

When an arbitrary decision to take away a peoples homeland and give it to another can be justified by a 2200 year old claim from a collection of tribal mythology, I must assume that everyone that participated in that decision is pretty "flawed".

Were Israel not there, the Islamic monarchies and dictatorships would either have to invent another enemy to justify the harsh treatment, isolation and denial of human rights the met out to their populations, or allow the exposure to Western Secularization that could have started the modernizaton of thought that is the beginning of freedom from superstition and religion.

But, we gave them the perfect mechanism for controlling a tribal people with ancient tribal hates and predjudices, an enemy that makes them all jealous of it's success. And by making sure that 'enemy' is the very picture of success, by supporting their land grabs that took control of most of the water in the area, while they refuse to recognize the chartered boundaries that would have created a separate state for the disputed 'holy' sight, as we keep them glutted with billions each year in support, we play into the hands of the dictartors and monarchs.

And we keep the string of lies going back 3000 yrs, a major player in modern geopolitics, when it should be three dead religions that have outlived their usefulness.

Ender,

You noted: "The world survived Communism and Fascism.

Will it survive the Cults of Abraham?"

Yes, indeed as it is simply a matter of "deflawing" the founders and foundations of said cults. The Jews and Christians are well on their way in doing this. The Muslims are way behind but they have been given the information and programs they need. Hopefully with the use of the Internet, complete "deflawing" of the three cults will not take too long.

1 Million Dead Iraqis. 2 million Dead Sudanese Christians and Animist.

Whether it's George Bush's Crusade Against Iraq or the Wahubbi Jihad in Sudan, the CULTS OF ABRAHAM have been the excuse for Murder for Money(0il in these cases) since their inception.

Any religion that even allows interpretaions that can support these atrocities should be recognized for the human created political control mechanizm that it is.

It really is time that humanity got these two thousand year old tribal monkeys off of it's back and acted in an rational and possibly even benevolent manner.

Or at least admit Murder for Money for what it is, and quit fooling the ingnoring masses with superstition and imaginary retributions.

The world survived Communism and Fascism.

Will it survive the Cults of Abraham?

No, what can never be excused is the lashing of women who dare to be gang raped, or killing of teachers who let the children in their classes name teddy bears.

Until this type shameless, gutter behavior is denounced and condemned by Muslims it will be left to people of other religions to do so.

"Whatever our differences, there can never be an acceptable excuse for injustice and intolerance in the name of our religions."

Uh...I think that someone disagrees with you.

"All our futures depend upon an ability to agree upon a global ethic, based upon mutual understanding and respect, that transcends our religious and cultural differences."

FALSI CRIMEN; FRAUS EST CELARE FRAUDEM; LUPUS IN FABULA.

Islamic law as a yardstick for justice. Can anyone really believe this? There is evidence of concern for "justice." The word has a completely different meaning in Islam than anything I could comprehend. I suppose I should get me to Gerogetown to learn about Islam and justice.

Islamic law as a yardstick for justice. Can anyone really believe this? There is evidence of concern for "justice." The word has a completely different meaning in Islam than anything I could comprehend. I suppose I should get me to Gerogetown to learn about Islam and justice.

Mr. Esposito and Mr. Voll are part of the lunatic left that are blaming the victims. They wrote a letter that appeared in Muslim newspapers that begged forgiveness for all the bad things Christians have done to muslims. Absolutely nothing was noted about beheadings, planes into buildings, the Olympics, throwing wheelchair ridden men off cruise ships, blowing up pizza parlors, etc. These religious apologists have given validation to the tactics of islamic extremists, and told them they are the victims, and go ahead keep up the beheadings. This insane logic should be exposed and stopped. Let us remember, these men receive money from the same group that supports the lashing of rape victims. They disgust me.

"In a case in which it is clear that Gillian Gibbons did not intend to malign the Prophet Muhammad..."

And what if she had? Are you implying that then it would be understandable that she's in jail and threats against her life were warranted. Pathetic.

"Whatever our differences, there can never be an acceptable excuse for injustice and intolerance in the name of our religions."

But the bible says ...

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

That sure sounds like intolerance to me.

It took two people to write this? I love the way you're more concerned that this might give fuel to "far right extremists in Europe and America" than about the actual injustice here. Or what it says about Islam when mobs on parade chant for the death of Mrs. Gibbons. Have another drink from the poisoned multiculti well, why don't you? Pathetic.

You're joking, right? You have to be.

You trot out some horrors from greater Derkaderkastan and then attach blame to "the Far Right in Europe and America". This is beyond parody.

Everywhere in the world, Muslims are parading around, waving machetes in the air, and demanding infidel blood. Lying back and spreading your buttocks is only going to encourage them. If Britain had a government worth its history, today's images from Khartoum would have ended with strafing and napalm, and the world would be a bit safer as a result.

Instead, we're going to have to endire poltroons like you, right up to the point where we nuke Mecca and Medina.

Bloody apologists. Bloody collaborators. You sicken me.

Again and again and again, it is all about the koran!!!! "Until the koran is "deflawed", no one is safe." (Even The Jihadist)

Hsnkhwj, the problem simply is, organized religion as a social/civil structure. It should serve solely as spiritual self growth.
The fact that subjective superstition, fiction, fantasy and heresay is being debated here as a intellectual forum blows me away.......

A couple more facts. Three Muslim countries, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia have all had women heads of states. The US, after its 230 year history, MAY catch up in 2009 to these three countries. A couple of years ago, an Iranian women's team climbed Mt. Everest. Women outnumber men in Iranian universities.

Western media love to present non-Western countries in an unfavourable light, and very often the criticism is deserved. But the West itself can be criticized, and arrogance is not the way to mutual understanding.

"All our futures depend upon an ability to agree upon a global ethic, based upon mutual understanding and respect, that transcends our religious and cultural differences." I fully agree with this, and I also agree that the decisions are ridiculous, for they bring shame on Islam. But the Western world which encourages adultery, abortion, and alcholism, is it any better? Is the West going to mend ITS ways? Will pigs fly?

Recently a German judge ruled that it was against the law for husbands to use DNA testing to find out if "their" chidren were actually theirs. The reason given was that such testing would violate the privacy of the children. But that decision also sends a message to adulterous wives, "sleep around and the law will be on your side."
The world needs a common ethic but that ethic cannot be merely the Western ethic - it must really be common to all cultures.

What I don't understand is why is it so blasphemous in Islamic culture to call a teddy bear "Muhammad" but so many people are called Muhammad ? Worth noting that in Latino culture, "Jesus" is a common name. But in the US/European culture, it is unheard of.

The "judiciaries" of Sudan and Saudi Arabia .... have not done anything different to what the would have done 50 years ago .... or for that matter 500 years ago .... I do not "understand" how any "scholar" .... can have such an self serving position .... "How could they (the muslim hierarchy) do not have understood that the actions of the muslim satraps .... savage in nature .... would alineate western observers?" .... what the "scholars" do not understand is that the only way in which cults maintain control over its members is through fear and reward (the brutality of the muslim atrocities just makes the rewards cheaper for the satraps ..... just being left alone - and alive - counts) .... this is what islam is .... just another savage cult .... albeit one that controls over a billion muslims (the correct translation from arabic would be "subjects") .... as for the "scholars" who wrote the report .... they are so incompetent I want to know when will they be fired ??????

Like it or not for millions (perhaps billions) of people, in spite of the protestations of the imams and moderates, the AP photos (Abd Raouf) of Sudanese protesters wielding swords calling for the death of a teacher ARE the face of islam. Angry, misogynistic, disaffected brown or black men between the ages of 15 and 50. Sadly it's only getting worse.

I should not have written, "possibly they do not approve" of the unwarranted sentencing of a rape victim to 200 lashes. "Instead of being appalled at the rape" makes their opposition clear. I erred. The professors erred elsewhere. As to error, whether mine, the professors’, or the sentencing authority’s in Saudi Arabia, well, to err is human. We indeed are fallible, fallen creatures. That's part of my religious ethic, which, in my view, stands on a firmer ground of human understanding than nonreligious ethics that have sprouted in the West in recent centuries.

The article by Messrs. Esposito and Voll demonstrates the intellectual failures and ethical errors of America's college and university faculties. In their opening sentence, they claim "Islamophobes blur the distinction between the barbaric acts of Muslim extremists and terrorists and the religion of Islam." And they write, "At a time when Islam is under siege from Muslim extremists and extremists from the Far Right in Europe and America.”

Name the “Islamophobes.” Name the “Far Right” people in Europe and America. What are their organizations, if any. How many of them are there? How do they “blur distinctions”? In what way or ways have they placed Islam “under siege”? If they are identified, perhaps other bien-pensant liberals can seek to correct them of their mistaken ways.

This writer is American and many people would consider him to be on the "Far Right." I read a lot of allegedly "Far Right" stuff, in magazines and journals, and frequent like Websites. I don’t encounter anything that might pass for “Islamophobia.” I have read more criticism of Islam in the comments here than I have encountered on the “far right” mass media outlets.

This writer has yet to see a religious faith or any atheism or agnosticism burn anyone at a stake or slay all the inhabitants of a town or behead anybody or stone anyone to death or murder thousands upon thousands of "landlords" and rich peasants or send millions of innocents to gas chambers or torn down churches and murdered priests. Doesn't happen. People do all those things, whether they believe in God and a particular religious faith or have declared fierce opposition to the "superstitions" and “hallucinations”of religion. My conclusion: it's human nature to sin and sin grievously, regardless of religious belief or lack of it; people have to know that certain acts are objectively wrong and society has to have the means to prevent or punish the most transgressive of those acts. Ah, but what's a sin or a transgression and how does one prevent and punish? Interesting question, that.

Objecting most strenuously to people claiming to be Muslim sending suicide murderers to kill innocent children or to others wanting to behead a woman because children in her class named a teddy bear Muhammad, or protesting when Christians are jailed for daring to hold services in private homes, which must be what the "Islamophobes" do, are all things of which one should approve, not castigate. But the professors do report the bad things, e.g., the sentence of a 19-year-old rape victim to 200 lashes and possibly they do not approve of that. Are the “Islamophobes” any different? Until one learns otherwise, one has to consider the professors guilty of reckless name-calling.

Perhaps the problem lies with the nature of today’s colleges and universities, stuffed full of bigoted and ignorant people who add little to learning and teach little of value to students, people who live in a fairy land not that much different from the Laputa Gulliver encountered. Until such time as someone with the demonstrated ability of Mark Moyar joins a (formerly, in my view) reputable university faculty, I won’t think much of all university faculties.

In my city, Worcester, Mass., "Far Right" people likely are fewer in number than elsewhere, for whatever reasons. But there are enough. I often drive by the impressive, new mosque that lies on a well-traveled road here. I have yet to hear of a single incident involving the mosque, and I'm sure the propaganda-loving local newspaper would have publicized it, had it happened.

As with many people who float on that Laputa-like cloud, the professors want to float the world to a "global ethic" while bypassing the swamps and snares and traps of human action down below, where us humans live, and the real and tedious work that’s needed to let us all get along together. Regrettably, humans (this writer is one) being mostly stupid, the road to tolerance and peace often has to pass by pools of blood; I wish that were not so. The professors, to be fair, have a nice dream of a world where we all get along. Their slurs do not lead to that idyllic place.

Jihadist- Thank you. Remember this book being banned?

"Banned books in Malaysia include works of noted Islam scholars, such as John Esposito’s “What
Everyone Needs to Know about Islam”. The book is disruptive to the country's peace and harmony.."

Care to share why it was banned?

at first blush, i want to agree with your post. or at least with the universalist sentiment behind it. it is unfortunate that political opportunists on the campaign trail have resorted to extremist descriptions of "islamo-fascism," a term that makes no historical sense.

and yet and yet.

one has to wonder at the repeated displays of astonishing intolerance across the muslim world. there is simply no excuse for the sorts of things you allude to. none at all. if there is to be any sort of real conciliation between the west and the "dar al islam," then the latter needs to do real soul searching about what values it really seeks to promote.

I just watched CBS's "60 Minutes" in which one segment focused on the plight of the Christians of Iraq and how they have fled Iraq. The Christian priest attributed this madness of expelling the Christians of Iraq to the bloody history of Christianity.

When will this kind of madness --Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians stop?

WE are living in the 21st. century. One hopes that sane people of all religions will get together and stop Human Rights violations. All parties are to blame. Correct the mistakes of the past and accept the fact that human history is full of mistakes.

Hello Jon:)

You don't know what those books are really about do you? The books you quoted from the Malaysian Star newspaper are on:

(a) On Women

"Tajul Muluk; Fiqh Perempuan"

Wahhabi/Salafist take on women. Malaysian Muslims are Sunnis of the Shafie school of jurisprudence. Want to have further Talibanisation of Islam in Malaysia, especially on women?

(b) On Sufism

"Tasawuf Perenial Kearifan Kritis Kaum Sufi"; "Kumpulan Ilmu Ghaib"; "Penyembuhan Cara Sufi and Kitab Kaysf Al-Asrar".

Too much mysticism and into saint worship. Want to have too much mysticism and supernaturalism and ignoring temporal affairs by going too much into rejecting realities and confusing Sufism with spiritualism?

(c) On Jesus :

"The Muslim Jesus: Kisah dan Sabda Yesus dalam Literatur Islam"

Want to have Muslims mock Christians for believeing Jesus as God and offending Christians who believe in the dogma of Trinity?. The book is very offensive to Christians. This seem to be a beginning of Muslims mocking Christian beliefs which the government, at the behest of the Muslim religious authorities, are not keen on.

Personally, I don't mind these books written by Malaysian Muslims to be published and circulated and to let people decide. But the government is wary of Muslims promoting Salafism/Wahhabism, or giving a specific take of Sufism, or mocking Christianity and Christians and angering any segments of multicultural and multireligious Malaysia. The government just wimp out and don't want to deal with religious discords amongst Malaysians as those books will certainly be politicised.

Got to go and thank you.

"J"

No one speaks for Islam. Ignore these middle east yahoos. American Muslims need these ignoramuses as much as Christians need frustrated bigoted monks from the old country, like old Ratty. The Arabs have always had a penchant for the melodramatic and an urge to hide their inferior culture behind religion. No self respecting Asian Muslim would look to an Arab for anything intellectual. It's just a pity that the Prophet was an Arab. I think he would have made a great Viking.

Sorry but the cases in Sudan and Saudi Arabia are completely different. Sudan is making a judgement call as to what constitutes disrespect with total disregard to the clear evidence that it was unintentional.

Saudia Arabia has explicitly written laws regarding what women can and can't do. The woman in question was fully aware of the law and she admits that she violated the law. Does she get away with her violation because of her personal tragedy? What of any other woman who violates the same law? Should the law look at the circumtances and say - "you have been punished enough"? That is for the Saudi justice system to decide. We in the US and most other countries do not agree with such laws but that is none of our business - unless we want to go to war with Saudia Arabia to get them to change their laws.

I have trouble understanding the reasoning used by so many people in the US to decide when we should get involved in other countries' internal affairs and when we are merely being bullies.

"At a time when Islam is under siege from Muslim extremists and extremists from the Far Right in Europe and America…"

Gentleman, what evidence do you have that Islam is "under siege" in America. What I have observed by Americans is nearly full capitulation to any and all grievances — most false, by the way — of Islamic people in the US. I have seen the President of the United States host a Ramadan dinner at the White House where, incidentally, there will be no similarly celebrated Christmas dinner. I have seen Muslim foot baths installed in public universities where Christian prayer has been banned. I have seen Muslim holy days celebrated in public schools where "Santa Claus" can't even be uttered. I have seen people in full, face-covering burkas board airplanes based only upon their word that they are, in fact, the person on the driver's license presented. I have seen American businesses told by courts they can no longer sell pork products because a single Muslim employee complained.

Where is this "siege" you speak of? How have I noticed all of those things above, but missed an entire "siege"? I feel sure I would have noticed a siege." Really, where is the damn siege?

Mark Steyn just made a mockery of these two professors over at National Review's corner- it's a brutal takedown of this essay-

This is shows the logical endpoint of multiculturalism: no distinctions, no ability to judge between cultures. All are equaled, and so there is no difference between good and bad, right and wrong. The writers become caught in their own contradictions, and that's why it reads as mush.

Wes,

It is not Islam that is offended. It is Muslims. By their culture, history and traditions, Muslims are different in countries and regions where they are and coloured by pre-Islamic traditions and cultural norms.

When Muslim ulema say Islam is a religion of peace, it is not to appease non-Muslims to make them feel better and unthreatened. It is addressed to Muslims to hold back from raging against those they regard as offending them and to remind that Islam is a about peace in oneself and with others.

This is real cultural-religious cluelessness going on and dangerously so in being fanned, as some posters noted, by the politicised extremists of both sides. Ignorant and self-serving bigots and chauvinists I should say, who in saying the other is vile and evil certainly don't make them any less vile or evil.

Fundamentally, Muslims leave the religious beliefs of others to their own believers and not question their core beliefs. Even the most rabid ones only vent against western foreign policies and culture, but not on religious dogmas and beliefs of the west. This has its basis in the fact that Suras in the Qur'an do state - to you your beliefs, to me my beliefs; that God will open the hearts of whom It wish to It; in the afterlife, non-believers will be shown the proof of God, and if they continue to disbelieve, hell for them.

There are many Suras, and not just the oft-quoted there is no compulsion in religion that makes Muslims more inward than Christians on matter of faith, and to focus on their community rather than on the beliefs of others nor to care to save th souls of others. Hence, it is precisely for these reasons that Muslims do get all riled up when non-Muslims do "step in" to talk on Islam and Muslims in what Muslims regard are internal matters. They don't "step into" Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism, and the adherents of other faiths are judged personally by actions and not their faith or belief.

Muslims look at the way the west denigrate Jesus, who has no say at all in how Christianity developed over the centuries, and see all the statues of Jesus, the images of Jesus in churches in commercial purposes, but never questioned it, even if Jesus is one of the most lauded Prophets in Islam. It is not for us to question how the west see their own beliefs and to denigrate it in arts such as Piss Christ, or the Last Temptation of Christ. If Christians and westerners are not offended, then it is their own particular state and stage of Judeo-Christian western heritage and civilisation.

Leslie Wolf,

Christians extremists? Think of the Vatican (who is under siege itself), the likes of Pat Robertson and other Armageddon proponents and evangelicals going around in Afghanistan, Iraq and other Muslim lands spreading the "good word" to save the souls of Muslims and for their salvation. Needless to say, to increase the number of Christians, they do resort to denigrating other beliefs, including Islam. Muslims, as I stated above, don't make it a mission to denigrate other people's beliefs.

Just look at the posts of Muslim posters and Muslim panelists in On Faith. Not a single one denigrate the beliefs of other religions, but other adherents, from Hindus to Buddhists to Christians do.

As I said, cultural and religious cluelessness lead to cultural/religious misunderstandings lead to cultural/religious gaffes lead to cultural/religious wars. This is real. It is not going to go away. Muslims in the academia, think tanks and media are getting increasingly assertive. God help us if and when such Muslims, in reaction, start to breach and hit at the core beliefs and dogmas of other faiths. Perhaps better for Muslims to rage in the streets than to do that, and leave the west further clueless on what is really going on and not understanding when Muslims say they are "hurt" and people should "respect" other people.

Two beliefs, two values rubbing against one another : the almost monolothic Judeo-Christian western civilisation and the pluralistic Islamic-Muslim heritage with diverse cultural traditions.

Thank you.

"J"

Up is down, right is wrong, the fascists of Islam are the victims... Who do you two work for again? Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Center? Ah.

The idea that someone must BE the thing he/she is studying is specious, absurd, and in fact a red herring. I don't need to be a star or planet to be an authoritative and informative astronomer. And the PR executive for a large corporation might not be the best person to get good, accurate information from regarding the company's controversial activities. In fact, NOT being part of the group could increase one's credibility by appearing more objective.

Imposing any set of rules based upon ancient beliefs that haven't changed in centuries by ANY organized religion on an individual or group in place of well reasoned law that has evolved since the Magna Carta is plain wrong.

Not a very enlightening topic. Did the persecution of Thomas Scopes mean something profound about "Christianity" or only about the good people of Tennessee? These issues are at root local. Britain occupied Sudan for alonst seventy years, flogging, imprisoning and killing people with impunity, all in the name of "Western civilization." Do you think it's an accident that this teacher is English? Similarly, religious repression in Saudi Arabia is inextricable from political repression in Saudi Arabia--and the Saudi regime is of course propped up by rents and political assistance from the entire industrialized "Western" world.

How exactly is the Sudanese political climate a reflection on Kadiris in Azerbaijan? You might as well say that these two cases are a reflection on Euro-American imperialism, or Kapital, or whatever. It wouldn't be any more enlightening. Pity that an actual scholar like Esposito has descended to this kind of unhelpful and self-defeating hand-wringing.

Read "Teddy bear blasphemes the Prophet" at delmarvahumanists.org

It's the best write up I've seen on the subject. They really make those people look stupid!

Read "Teddy bear blasphemes the Prophet" at delmarvahumanists.org

It's the best write up I've seen on the subject. They really make those people look stupid!

What is this thing with islamic courts? When I see what is happening in saudi Arabia and the Sudan I realize that islam is just about oppression and sexism. An islamic appeals "judge" saying that he would have sentenced her to death for naming a stuffed animal Mo! What a crock. Another reason for the separation of church and state.

In saudi Arabia, it is nice to know that rape is legal but speaking with a man that is not a relative is a crime. Sick, that is what it is.

We don't need saudi Arabia, they need us. The Sudan is just another pos of an African country that was invaded by sword swinging arabs a few hundred years ago.

Let them kill each other and then go and pick up the pieces.

Jihadist sounds like she is ready to sharpen her machete and take to the streets of Sudan to defend the "name" Mohammed. And speaking of "mongrels"- looks like your lovely country is going to the dogs..

"The books could create confusion and anxiety among Muslims and harm public peace if their publications were allowed to continue, said the statement."

Meanwhile jihadi material from Saudi salafi publication houses permeate your streets and masjids (mosques).

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/11/13/nation/19450804&sec=nation

Need Better Leaders - All Around:
leave us out of it, pleeeease.

Hsnkhwj:

Your comments about the problems in "Hindu-land" reinforces the need to correct the flaws in the founders and foundations of the major religions as noted previously. e.g. "The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

Proceeding to your religious dialogue suggestion, one first needs to apply the Five Rule i.e. "First, Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". Only then can the dialogue can begin.

Who are these "extremists from the Far Right" who have Islam under siege? And just how are they besieging Islam? Where is this taking place? Is this a current event? Just curious. Thanks.

Ahh, The Jihadist continues to avoid the real problem i.e. the flaws in the founders and foundations of Islam with deflecting and unsupported statements like "How is the British teacher, the English, who are more affectionate with their horses and dogs than with their own children, to know that? " (Also a rather ironic statement about a teacher of children.)

We have provided The Jihadist with the facts but somehow her Three B Syndrome continues to blind her neurons. (Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam). We have even provided her with a free Five Step Program to correct her "cultish" brain cells but alas she continues to resist. We shall persist as good global, concerned citizens and neighbors do for their fellow hominids!!!

Umm, Jihadist,

Look at all the stuff named for Jesus. Do thousands of Christians take to the streets demanding death when someone names a dog, band, or offensive work of "art" "Jesus"? No. If Islam is offended, there are plenty of peaceful means of showing your displeasure. Riots, waiving machetes and swords, shooting guns in the air, etc do not help anyone understand the allegations that Islam = Peace. Nor, do such actions make anyone want a large Muslim community as neighbors.

As long as actions by Islamic courts and clerics continue to display a venemous and intolerant attitude toward any percieved or real violation of Islamic law: as long as the general Islamic populations of the world do not rise up and repudiate the behavior of these clerics and courts, there is no way that the rest of the world will or should percieve Islam as a "peaceful" religion. Indeed the continuing string of attrocities and blood thirsty actions of Islamic courts, cleric and "leaders" simply validate the claims that Islam is anything but a peaceful "religion." Is it impossible to see how it is "religion" that can or will peacefully exist in a world that does not bow to it's whims.

Ah so. Just as expected for its predictability of posts in the culture wars, religious wars.

Cultural ignorance lead to cultural gaffes lead to cultural misunderstanding lead to cultural war. Same for religion.

Muhammad and its numerous variations of spelling -Mohamed, Mohammed, Muhamad etc and preceding another name such as Muhammad Yunus, Mohamed Heikal, Mohammad Abbas is one of the most common name for Muslim men and the one of the most common names in the world.

I don't think anyone appreciate their names being named for pets, toys or teddy bears and mistakenly responding when your call you mongrel or teddy bear.

I see that some are now deliberately calling their pets, toys Mo or Mohammed. Perhaps it is cool and the thing to do in the west to name pets and toys after human names as a way of humanising animals and toys. How is the British teacher, the English, who are more affectionate with their horses and dogs than with their own children, to know that?

"J"

Mary M.

I am soooo tired of this Judeo-Christian founding fathers nonsense that seems to appear in almost every thread. This country is the result of rationalist deists [and maybe a few outright Atheists]. The Treaty of Tripoli explicitly states this fact. I wish that the people who keep holding up the 10 Commandments as the foundation of Western Law would actually read them and think about the implications of actually implementing them. They, if put into practice with their original punishments, would at least be comparable with the barbarisms of Sharia Law. Death for Worshiping any other god, Death for Adultery, Death for dissing your parents, Death, Death, Death. Sound familiar? I can only thank the goddess [small g intended] that the 10 Commandments and their punishments are NOT the law of the land. Stop showing your ignorance of US History and to some extent even the Bible.

The photo of enraged Sudanese screaming for the English teacher's execution speaks volumes. These same people who pray to "Allah, the Most Merciful and Compassionate" are blind to their own hypocracy. And where is CAIR and the so-called moderates who insist that Islam is a religion of peace? Their silence is deafening. Is it unspoken concurrence or fear of Islamist wrath?

Fahmi Natour writes "The Muslims are not one nation that strictly interprets the Quran consistently, yet stupid acts committed by some Muslims are always attributed to Islam, in the West." Does he not see that this is because they justify their actions in terms of Islam.

Hitler did not say he did all the unspeakable things in the name of the Pope or Jesus Christ.

More recently, the PLO or even Hamas do not give Islam as a justification for their actions; they cite Palestinian grievances. Hence they are referred to as Palestinian militants not Islamic militants.
The IRA did not justify their terrorist activities as being in the name of the Pope or their religion, even though they are Catholics. So they were not called Catholic terrorists.

John and John:

You clearly seem to be writing from the viewpoint of a muslim believer or at least a strong sypathizer with Islam. Your statement that "Islam is under siege" reveals that you think there is some sort of true and good Islam that is worth defending. Could it be that these events merely reflect another strain of Islam that you reject.

I find it astonishing that you would suggest that Gillian Gibbons is in any way deserving of blame. By writing that "Gibbons did not intend to malign the Prophet Mohammad" it is as if she should be punished if she had done so intentionally.

Your article, and this is true for most of Espisito's academic work, would be better titled "Defending Islam". If you were being honest you would take a long hard look at Islam and ask yourselves if it's not just balderdash.

Concerned - shame on you. You have me agreeing with you more and more.

Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had father Abraham. Now let's give them guns and let them rid the world of each other.

And, let's not forget that when extremists Muslims commit acts of terror, we see pictures of Muslims celebrating in the streets. This week, we are treated to over 10,000 Sudanese Muslims demanding Gibbons' execution!! Boy, that looks like a religion I feel comfortable living next to.

If there is such a thing as "moderate Islam", it would be good for them to be far more vocal than they are now. These clerics that preach this violence must be publicly declared heretics and thrown out of the mosques. Those that accept these teaching of hate, if Islam believes them wrong, need to be publicly rebuked. "Moderate Islam" cannot continue to live in the shadow of it's Satanic brethren. Oops - guess I'm on a death list now.

I'm no "Islamofascist" screamer but unless moderates move to control the levers of power in the Muslim world then that world will become totally marginalized. If not for oil that would have already happened. I have come to belive that at just over 1300 years old Islam has not yet "matured" as a religion. Christianity at