Good site! It is very creative and includes a wealth of information.

Good site! It is very creative and includes a wealth of information.

Good site! It is very creative and includes a wealth of information.

Welcome to the club !

My head is spinning having read this post.

We want Sarfraz! We want Sarfraz!

He made some money writing a book about his experiences of NOT BEING MUSLIM (AND/OR PAKISTANI) ENOUGH....so no more Sarfraz actually!

>I am 32
-f**k!

>Not Muslim Enough
-you journos

>I get it that Anjem Choudar doesn’t view me as a true Muslim
-nor me and most others probably, but no one is begging for his approval - bad choice for example, Missy.

>I am not, and never have been, affiliated with a religious or political movement.
-lisen up Ian Blair, listen up

>socially promiscuous
-you journos are silly, shut up! you must have a thesaurus on your desk or something

>analogy is rocking up to a party sober when everyone else has been drunk for hours.
-then they get you to drive you home the so-and so's. next time I'm charging them £0.20 a mile - EACH!

>Being in the company of non-Muslims is easier and more fun.
-really? and you wonder why you think you're NME? depends on how you define fun...some fun with this lot and some other fun with the other lot know what i mean?! you've just alienated a whole community for being 'boring'. no amount of bigging up shisha can help you now

>It's is not a euphemism for drinking and partying.
-it bloody is...i'm surprised you stopped at those two activities actually

>I don’t want to talk about radicals or community cohesion all the time
-only once a month though, yeah?

I'm not sure who you've appealed to with this post but it seems you've appealed to non-Muslims and had a bash at Muslims...well done, now you're even less MUSLIM!! haha!

Bests,

enLondres- regular islamophobic, sorry Islamophonic, listener and happy QPR fan - the Sun has termed us the richest footy club in the world - yippee! Chelsea watch yer backs

And I guess that is what is important.
Gain notoriety and a hefty paycheck, and pander to both Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

She certainly plays to the Muslims on her site.
Every page has the islamic greeting.
There is definitely no mention of her disregard for Muslims on her site, rather the opposite.

She needs to pick a side to be on.
If this post were reproduced on her own site, alot of young Muslims would be quite disenchanted with her.

Nothing quite like religious apartheid!

When reading the article by Riazat Butt I was disturbed by the fact she doesnt seem like a muslim at all. Never mind the not muslim enough for "THEM" finger shes pointing at concerned muslims.
The statement, "i don't like being called sister by people who are not my brothers" says it all pretty much.
The muslim community is under attack 24/7 in western non muslim nation.
Her statement reminds me of those Blacks who cater to the whims of white supremacists and when held accountable for crooked alliances scream, "THE BLACKS SAY IM NOT BLACK ENOUGH."
Its cowardice and escapism.
I am suspicious of one sided stories and it would be interesting to hear the unrepresented OTHER SIDE from those that have experienced Riazat Butt and found her to be less than sincere.

When reading the article by Riazat Butt I was disturbed by the fact she doesnt seem like a muslim at all. Never mind the not muslim enough for "THEM" finger shes pointing at concerned muslims.
The statement, "i don't like being called sister by people who are not my brothers" says it all pretty much.
The muslim community is under attack 24/7 in western non muslim nation.
Her statement reminds me of those Blacks who cater to the whims of white supremacists and when held accountable for crooked alliances scream, "THE BLACKS SAY IM NOT BLACK ENOUGH."
Its cowardice and escapism.
I am suspicious of one sided stories and it would be interesting to hear the unrepresented OTHER SIDE from those that have experienced Riazat Butt and found her to be less than sincere.

When reading the article by Riazat Butt I was disturbed by the fact she doesnt seem like a muslim at all. Never mind the not muslim enough for "THEM" finger shes pointing at concerned muslims.
The statement, "i don't like being called sister by people who are not my brothers" says it all pretty much.
The muslim community is under attack 24/7 in western non muslim nation.
Her statement reminds me of those Blacks who cater to the whims of white supremacists and when held accountable for crooked alliances scream, "THE BLACKS SAY IM NOT BLACK ENOUGH."
Its cowardice and escapism.
I am suspicious of one sided stories and it would be interesting to hear the unrepresented OTHER SIDE from those that have experienced Riazat Butt and found her to be less than sincere.

When reading the article by Riazat Butt I was disturbed by the fact she doesnt seem like a muslim at all. Never mind the not muslim enough for "THEM" finger shes pointing at concerned muslims.
The statement, "i don't like being called sister by people who are not my brothers" says it all pretty much.
The muslim community is under attack 24/7 in western non muslim nation.
Her statement reminds me of those Blacks who cater to the whims of white supremacists and when held accountable for crooked alliances scream, "THE BLACKS SAY IM NOT BLACK ENOUGH."
Its cowardice and escapism.
I am suspicious of one sided stories and it would be interesting to hear the unrepresented OTHER SIDE from those that have experienced Riazat Butt and found her to be less than sincere.

When reading the article by Riazat Butt I was disturbed by the fact she doesnt seem like a muslim at all. Never mind the not muslim enough for "THEM" finger shes pointing at concerned muslims.
The statement, "i don't like being called sister by people who are not my brothers" says it all pretty much.
The muslim community is under attack 24/7 in western non muslim nation.
Her statement reminds me of those Blacks who cater to the whims of white supremacists and when held accountable for crooked alliances scream, "THE BLACKS SAY IM NOT BLACK ENOUGH."
Its cowardice and escapism.
I am suspicious of one sided stories and it would be interesting to hear the unrepresented OTHER SIDE from those that have experienced Riazat Butt and found her to be less than sincere.

When reading the article by Riazat Butt I was disturbed by the fact she doesnt seem like a muslim at all. Never mind the not muslim enough for "THEM" finger shes pointing at concerned muslims.
The statement, "i don't like being called sister by people who are not my brothers" says it all pretty much.
The muslim community is under attack 24/7 in western non muslim nation.
Her statement reminds me of those Blacks who cater to the whims of white supremacists and when held accountable for crooked alliances scream, "THE BLACKS SAY IM NOT BLACK ENOUGH."
Its cowardice and escapism.
I am suspicious of one sided stories and it would be interesting to hear the unrepresented OTHER SIDE from those that have experienced Riazat Butt and found her to be less than sincere.

Peace be upon you Riazat, being Muslim enough is ,

being your self, and respecting the right of others to do the same. Imam Mikal Hammad Shabazz

Dear Ms Butt

Thank you for sharing your personal experience with Islam and how your refusal to equate your practise of the religion with politics or in making other personal choices has been misunderstood. I'm sure there must be millions of other Muslims who would feel the same if they were subjected to the same stringent standards as you seem to have been.

The vast majority of ordinary Muslims in India (my opinion being 100% Indian in origin and being raised there) I'm certain do not politicise Islam, and they live in peace with people of other faiths and make their practise of religion their private business. It could be said for millions of other Muslims in other countries, including those living in Australia.

If it was not for 9/11 and other terrorist attacks in the name of Islam, the non-Islamic world would not even raise the question whether anything written in the Quran could possibly be used/misused to justify such actions.

The world needs to hear more and more from Muslims like you as millions of non-Muslims around the globe have been put on terror alert due to the actions of a few Muslims.

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

Your article was really interested I can tell that you are not racist you seem that you are a very friendly person.

On being a Muslim in the West:

Have unwavering faith in God (no matter whether you call Him Allah or al-Haqq or al-Rahman etc) and do good works.

Pray as many times (or not) as you want, facing in any direction of your choice.

Fast or feast as many days in the year, or not.

Respect the rights of other human beings to follow their own way to God. Be friends with anyone.

Respect the rights of Muslims to leave the faith if they choose without being punished for it.

For women: Follow the spirit of the hijab, which is modesty and chastity in thought, words and actions. The hijab was meant to protect women from the lust filled eyes of men; to protect women from being sexually assaulted. It is possible to dress modestly and behave with chaste intent without covering one's hair and face. It makes no sense to wear a hijab covering the hair and neck like a fashion statement and then wear seductive clothes and behave in seductive ways. When Muslim women in the West set an example of modesty and chastity without a hijab, their less free sisters in other countries can follow, persuading their men to allow for a change in the custom.

No one can judge how much faith you have or not.But maybe it's your character.If you were raised in a non-muslim envorinment,maybe you still show signs of a powerful western influence that is out of sync with Islam.Or is it maybe that you aren't being arab or native enough.Now that's a whole nother cup of tea.Muslim or Arab?Which are you?Seek refuge in Allah and strive to be a better Muslim not closer to the community of Muslims.But most of all,you are Muslim first.That's all you really own anybody.

Asalam Alaikam

Thank you Akhi for your post, as muslims we should have only honest and encouraging words for our muslim sister Riazat and you have proved that. Well, not feeling muslim enough could come from lack of sincerity in your practice or faith in your religion. Recognize that the heart of being a Muslim is within and not what you portray physically on the outside. Consider all of those you encounter who do not wear hijabs and beards, etc., but they live the life of a Muslim through their actions and encounters with people. If your intentions are good and you are striving every day then you are Muslim enough.

Thank you Akhi for your post, as muslims we should have only honest and encouraging words for our muslim sister Riazat and you have proved that. Well, not feeling muslim enough could come from lack of sincerity in your practice or faith in your religion. Recognize that the heart of being a Muslim is within and not what you portray physically on the outside. Consider all of those you encounter who do not wear hijabs and beards, etc., but they live the life of a Muslim through their actions and encounters with people. If your intentions are good and you are striving every day then you are Muslim enough.

"Tim:
Riazat, in the land of the free, America, you can be NME or you can be "not Christian enough," or you can be "not Jewish enough, or "not Italian enough" or "not black enough," or "not Indian enough," or "not Asian enough"... You can be an American. Congratulations and welcome to America the land of "not XYZ enough." Nobody, I mean nobody, has the right to impose their values or their restrictions on you. No one can force you to be "good enough." You are free and that is how God designed you and to live in a country where "not good enough" is the norm is a blessing. Tradition is just tradition in America and as in Fiddler on The Roof, if tradition makes no sense to you, then just ignore tradition. I am thankful for every day of my life because "not being good enough" is to be free.

November 3, 2007 8:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments"

Thank you Tim, I think that statement is worth repeating.

But through it all there is the realm of reality as noted in that famous quote:

"Gators vs. Muslims??? Gators definitely will kill. With Muslims, it depends but with the koran as their operating manual can we trust any of them??????"

I hope the sister reads this thread to see that the IDEA which is Islam is the difference. All these various competing ideas trying to guide Ms. Butt this way or that, to follow someone else's beliefs and ways.

And thus, only the Muslim sister can ascertain whether the concepts which she holds inside are consistent with Islam or not. More importantly, whethere her concepts are those which serve God, or not. And as may be indicated, Capitalist thought (which encompasses secular humanism, democracy, and secularized and modifed Christianity and Judaism to meet Capitalism's ideological parameters) is fundamentally opposed to Islam as an ideology, but is relatively tolerant of Islam as a modified and secularized Christianity type religion: ie. Chrislam.

Ms Butt, please realize that the fence or gray area which you presume you sit is being shone the light of day because this is how God has indicated He will do. And the real IDEA of Islam regarding the person is about the individual and her God. What is your relationship with God? That's what is important. Does God have a "right" to command and prohibit to mankind, to organize mankind's affairs, to present a comprehensive criteria by which mankind can determine his affairs? Is mankind even in need of God's revelation or his Legislation?

I hope the sister reads this thread to see that the IDEA which is Islam is the difference. All these various competing ideas trying to guide Ms. Butt this way or that, to follow someone else's beliefs and ways.

And thus, only the Muslim sister can ascertain whether the concepts which she holds inside are consistent with Islam or not. More importantly, whethere her concepts are those which serve God, or not. And as may be indicated, Capitalist thought (which encompasses secular humanism, democracy, and secularized and modifed Christianity and Judaism to meet Capitalism's ideological parameters) is fundamentally opposed to Islam as an ideology, but is relatively tolerant of Islam as a modified and secularized Christianity type religion: ie. Chrislam.

Ms Butt, please realize that the fence or gray area which you presume you sit is being shone the light of day because this is how God has indicated He will do. And the real IDEA of Islam regarding the person is about the individual and her God. What is your relationship with God? That's what is important. Does God have a "right" to command and prohibit to mankind, to organize mankind's affairs, to present a comprehensive criteria by which mankind can determine his affairs?

Riazat,

I think your problem derives from a fundamental misunderstanding of what "Islam" and "muslim" is. You are already muslim because you were created with that nature. Ignorance, like a thick dross, covers (kaffir) our true nature. A muslim is one who submits to the Creator and Islam is the peace established through that submission. "submission" to the Creator is to act in accordance with the nature in which you were created.

The Quran says of itself "This book...is a guide for those who keep their duty". The Quran is a book of inspiring facts and detailed instructions for establishing peace in your life and on earth.

If you are ever feeling not "not muslim enough", then you have to consider yourself in lieu of what the revealed word of Allah says about Islam and being Muslim and your current state of being.

One makes a grave error comparing his or herself to others because only the mind reveals the true orientation of a person.

beards, hijabs, jalabeyas, covering oneself in long dark sheets, perferring silver to gold, attending halaqahs and masjids, performing prayers publicly, hating "the west", etc... none of these is Islam or righteousness.

Revisit surah al-baqarah.

There is something psychotic about American muslims. But you guys will where that as a badge of honor.

Dear Riazatt:

There is no "perfect muslim", but you know this. For all we know, you are the ideal and the conservatives are wrong. Actually, the conservatives are wrong, so don't be pressured by them, it is your faith as well.

AL-
if any muslim told you who was going to hell or not- or that jews or chriatians are going to hell becuase of their religion-
they dont know islam-

people go to hell for these acts-
In islam, hell is not a place of destruction- but of purging -
people go to hell for these acts-
"The weak who lack power to (avoid evil)"
"The (carefree) who pursue (everything irrespective of the fact that it is good or evil) and who do not have any care for their family or for their wealth".
"Those dishonest whose greed cannot be concealed even in the case of minor things"
"[Those] who betray you. morning and evening, in regard to your family and your property"
"The miser and the liar and those who are in the habit of abusing people and using obscene and foul language"- Muslim 40: 68: 43

Prophet Muhamamd(swa)tells us that those who possess an atom faith shall not enter Jahanannam (Hell)

the qu'ran tells us that people of the book (jews and christians) and those who submit to the will of ALLAH, and are pious- go to heaven.

Only Allah Knows, if a person is genuinely good, becuase only He is present in all inter-relations. Without guidance, we are exposed to too many dangers, that can place a fine balance, between sanity and insanity. Being in a state of Islam, one is submits to the greater Unity, that balances eveything based on the natural laws and justice that create, support and guide the universe, has the chance to rise above their lower selves. Being in a state of Islam, submission, can be conscious and subconscious, but when it is conscious, one has greater control over ones development. The trickling of water in an open brook, trickles best becuase it is clear from fallen debris, and nothing along the route, is blocking the flow of water. - our lives are like that brook, which flows into streams (communities), rivers, (nations), the sea (humanity). All the brooks need to be cleared in order that the life force penetrates all avenues, and vibrates to the laws of nature that keeps us in balance, physically, psychologically, and spiritually.

peace

Riazat, brava on your courage!
Be your beautiful, God-created self.
I like what Bilal Mahmud said.
The only judgment important enough to think about it that of God.

What gall!
Riazat was born into your "town," so she is your neighbor. She didn't ask for citizenship. She's already there. But I wonder if you're a snob--the sort of citizen who puts high gates into your town so that seekers or doubters cannot get through. Only the die-hard fans like you, with megaphones, trying to shout down honest questioning with bigotry and a sense of self-righteousness. Every religion has room for doubters, for questioners, for dissent. Only Islam seeks to balk at this...which makes it seem more like mind control or a cult than a true theology.

What gall!
Riazat was born into your "town," so she is your neighbor. She didn't ask for citizenship. She's already there. But I wonder if you're a snob--the sort of citizen who puts high gates into your town so that seekers or doubters cannot get through. Only the die-hard fans like you, with megaphones, trying to shout down honest questioning with bigotry and a sense of self-righteousness. Every religion has room for doubters, for questioners, for dissent. Only Islam seeks to balk at this...which makes it seem more like mind control or a cult than a true theology.

NME works for me too. I too am a muslim but most muslims that I know consider me NME because I am a lawyer (American) and I am not supposed to be earning a living representing people in a law that is not Sharia. Well, I disagree.

But, I have a bigger problem than you do. I am staring to question whether any of the three biblical religions is actually from a creator (whatever you call him). Here is why. Ask a devote christian, a devote jew and devote muslim what will happen to the other two. The answer is inevitably "the other two will rot in hell" because their religions are not true. Well, that leaves me with at least one billion people (and possibly more than two billion people if it turns out that the jewish guy is the right one) in the world that are lied to. In my mind, each of the three guy is as likely as the other two to be correct. And, if all three are wrong, "Creator have mercy on them." As a lawyer, my tendency is to look for some form of evidence. But I am not having any luck. So, that leaves me confused and NME.

NME works for me too. I too am a muslim but most muslims that I know consider me NME because I am a lawyer (American) and I am not supposed to be earning a living representing people in a law that is not Sharia. Well, I disagree.

But, I have a bigger problem than you do. I am staring to question whether any of the three biblical religions is actually from a creator (whatever you call him). Here is why. Ask a devote christian, a devote jew and devote muslim what will happen to the other two. The answer is inevitably "the other two will rot in hell" because their religions are not true. Well, that leaves me with at least one billion people (and possibly more than two billion people if it turns out that the jewish guy is the right one) in the world that are lied to. In my mind, each of the three guy is as likely as the other two to be correct. And, if all three are wrong, "Creator have mercy on them." As a lawyer, my tendency is to look for some form of evidence. But I am not having any luck. So, that leaves me confused and NME.

Paul,

Note the condition of said "hallucinators" and when they supposedly heard/saw the "pretty wingie talking flying fictional thingie" or God or a "demon of the demented". Ole Mo was in a cave "fasting" for thirty day and thirty nights. Jesus was fasting for "forty days and nights". Abe was about to slit his son's throat after a very long journey. Joseph was sleeping. And the ghost of the crucified Jesus passing through walls? All a bit much and no eye witnesses to attest to any of it. Ever notice that visions ceased when photography and tape recordings were invented. Staring at the Sun besides burning your corneas is also another method of some quick hallucinations. And of course there are always the drug and alcohol benders!!!

And if you want to do some rather safe self-hallucination, simply don't sleep for a 24 hours. Done this a few times working double shifts or during escape and evasion courses in the US Army Hallucinated every time.

Some "pwtfft" history:

Joe Smith had his Moroni.

Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

Mohammed (and his scribes) had his Gabriel (this "tinker bell" got around).

Jesus and his family and "biographers" had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented.

The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

Some added references to "tinker bells".

"Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."
(Apparently hallucinations did not stop with Joe Smith.)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm
"This belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and Assyrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an Assyrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."

Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallucinating:

"TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."

And tinker bells go way, way back:

"In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel caled Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."

"The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hittites and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "

"The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "

For added information see the review at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel

Thank you, MuslimEnough-

Your post illustrates one of the more difficult aspects of strident Islam. Narrow-minded exclusivity. That's not a winning team..

Riazat: Just two questions/comments

1. How is it that an secular (not religious) person gets a job as a religious correspondent?

2. Are Muslims allowed to have any criterion for inclusion? In other words, every defined group has prerequisites for inclusion. In that respect, Muslims are no different for any other group (Christians, Jews, Atheists, Football fans).

It's like you go to the football game and don't stand for the National Anthem, nor do you want cheer for the home team. You want to sit passively and observe, or do anything and everything but attention to the game.

You don't really understand the fervor that the hometown fans have for their team. You sit passively by while the crowd is going wild during the game winning scoring drive.

I am a Muslim. I love my team (Islam). We don't want you booing the hometeam. Just because you were born in this town doesn't make you a fan.

You are certainly entitled to join any other team you so choose. But don't sit next to me at the game and wonder why you're not Muslim enough. It's you who are not cheering not me.

In my mind I'm wondering why you bought a ticket to the game if you don't care about the home team.

riazat - just wanted to let you know you're not alone. there are many educated, single muslim females in the world who don't fit a mold. we practice the essence of islam - knowing and doing the right thing each day, treating people humanely, remembering ALLAH (swt) in the beauty of the world and in the choices we make - but don't look muslim as everybody else, muslims and non-muslims alike, like to believe we should. some of it is ethnic perceptions overshadowing the true unity of islam, some of it is just stupidity.

it's not always easy to strike your own path, but realize that your intentions and actions will ultimately be what is judged. know that there are muslims and nonmuslims who appreciate the person you are. as you said, your faith will always be private. it will also be a part of you - and that is the beauty of islam... it's yours to make of it what you will - nobody else can interfere on what it is to you, how it lifts you, how it shapes you.

believe that alone, practice islam as you feel fit with the people (muslim or nonmuslim) you feel most comfortable with and it will always be what it is meant to be... your lifeline, your compass that in the worst moments of your life, will not steer you wrong.

best wishes always,
from a female cousin or a potential friend in los angeles - whichever you prefer (since you don't want a sister who isn't blood- related, completely understandly - i'm the same way w/"aunties")
in islam

Here are some goodies from Koran and Sahi hadiths for Islamic women.

Quran for Women

2:228, And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them
2:230, So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her
2:282, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
4:3, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
4:11-12, Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females:
4:34, Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
53:27, Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names
66:10, Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: “Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!”
It is forbidden for a woman to be seen by any man except her husband when she is made up or well-dressed. (TR. P 430)
3. A woman is not a believer if she undertakes a journey which may last three days or longer, unless she is accompanied by her husband, son, father or brother. (TR. P 431 )
4. A woman must veil herself even in the presence of her husband's father, brother and other male relations. (TR. P 432)
5. She is forbidden to spend any money without the permission of her husband, and it includes giving food to the needy or feast to friends. (TR. P 265)
6. A wife is forbidden to perform extra prayers (NAFAL) or observe fasting (other than RAMADAN) without the permission of her husband. (TR. P 300)
7. If prostration were a legitimate act other than to God, woman should have prostrated to her husband. (TR. P 428)
8. If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428) 9. The marriage of woman to her man is not substantive. It is precarious. For example if the father of the husband orders his son to divorce his wife, he must do so. (TR. P 440)
11. Majority of women would go to hell. (Muslim P 1431)
12. If a woman refuses to come to bed when invited by her husband, she becomes the target of the curses of angles. Exactly the same happens if she deserts her husband's bed. (Bokhari P 93)
13. The women who are ungrateful to their men, are the denizens of hell; it is an act of ingratitude for a woman to say: "I have never seen any good from you." (Bokhari P 96)
14. A woman in many ways is deprived of the possession of her own body. Even her milk belongs to her husband. (Bokhari P 27)

Good luck to you dear person.

To CONCERNED THE CHRISTIAN NOW LIBERATED,
If there was a God, and He decided to speak to His people in a direct way involving any visual image, you would call this a hallucination. If there was a God, why wouldn't he be able to give His people visions-- he would be able to do anything, right? So, your theory that these religious leaders were hallucinating is flawed. . . if there is a God.

To the person who brought up hallucinations,
If there was a God, and He decided to speak to His people in a direct way involving any visual image, you would call this a hallucination. If there was a God, why wouldn't he be able to give His people visions-- he would be able to do anything, right? So, your theory that these religious leaders were hallucinating is flawed. . . if there is a God.

Dear Riazat,

You are in an excellent place on your spiritual journey to begin to discern your divine purpose in life. Once this moves from your head to your heart, you will no longer feel like an outsider, and you will be at peace within yourself.

Riazat Butt is not talking so much about religious identity but about cultural identity. This is a pretty common problem. Whether the group is based on race, ethnicity, religion, culture, or political beliefs, groups tend to develop a specific culture. If you don't conform to the culture, you might feel that you don't fit in, depending on how cliquish the group is. This is exacerbated by the fact that people enjoy condemning others, and they also like to feel like they are part of a group. Put these things together and you have people who enjoy condemning (or at least excluding) others who are not part of their group. You could feel homeless in this way as a pro-life liberal, or as an environmentalist conservative. It can be kind of lonely.

What do you expect? You could be NJE or NCE also (Not Jewish Enough) or (Not Christian Enough) if you belonged to those groups.

To get, you gotta give. Don't be so narcissistic. Get a life and smell the roses. There is a huge conflict going on, and you can't tip toe through the daisies without paying a price. Grow up and do stop whining.

For that matter consider what happened to Anglos who went native in India while they lorded it up there. Just a reference point.

WTF?! I'vbe never heard of Miss Butt but this post is just out and out whining. You won't get much of an identity for anything specific with that attitude. You won't meausure up in many, amny areas because you are an immature simpleton. "...rocking up to a party sober when everyone else has been drunk for hours." Clearly, you've no clue how to get up to speed quickly and immerse yourself within your immediate surroundings if just for the night. If you continue to have an outsider's attitude, congratulations, you'll always be an outsider.

i really liked that post and you its all right although i live in egypt which it totally moslim community but its alot easier when u dont talk much about relegions specially in egypt coz' we have many christians and we live peacfully 100% and why would i can some man or woman all over the ocean a sister or brother hope there are many like you all over the world

i really liked that post and you its all right although i live in egypt which it totally moslim community but its alot easier when u dont talk much about relegions specially in egypt coz' we have many christians and we live peacfully 100% and why would i can some man or woman all over the ocean a sister or brother hope there are many like you all over the world

i really liked that post and you its all right although i live in egypt which it totally moslim community but its alot easier when u dont talk much about relegions specially in egypt coz' we have many christians and we live peacfully 100% and why would i can some man or woman all over the ocean a sister or brother hope there are many like you all over the world

i really liked that post and you its all right although i live in egypt which it totally moslim community but its alot easier when u dont talk much about relegions specially in egypt coz' we have many christians and we live peacfully 100% and why would i can some man or woman all over the ocean a sister or brother hope there are many like you all over the world

My only concern is a person is only know by his or her identity , be the color/creed/religion. I never seen someone written anything based on morality or say honesty, like "association of Honest professional" one can find association of doctors, engineers etc. This is why one gets choosy albeit one cannot stay in between of the two.

We humans often go through this "not being enough" thing because of false categories. I have been accused of not being "hispanic" or latina enough even though I was born in Latin America along with my entire family. (I hate that word latina, it reminds me of morons like jennifer lopez.) I am 38, ambitious, childless and a very proud atheist and also a hispanic with mostly non-hispanic friends for the same reasons you state. I try to do hispanic cultural things but find them incredibly boring and judgemental. Hang in there because you are obviously an awesome person.

As one who was raised a christian I can tell you even I feel left outside of my faith if not my culture here in the U.S. So you are not certainly not alone in those feelings.

Personally, I think folks ought to be allowed to live their lives without worrying about measuring up to false social standards of others.

I feel i have experienced this at times.

My only concern is a person is only know by his or her identity , be the color/creed/religion. I never seen someone written anything based on morality or say honesty, like "association of Honest professional" one can find association of doctors, engineers etc. This is why one gets choosy albeit one cannot stay in between of the two.

what's your point sister?

what's your point sister?

What is your point??

Dear Riazat,
Thank you for an HONEST article. I am a muslim, your age, and I know how you feel. I have pretty much given up trying to find a common bond based on religious identification -- I have come to realize that it is extremely difficult. In America, muslims are an incredibly diverse bunch -- after all this is a religion with a wide geographic spread, and an astonishing array of cultures commingle with the American to shape these individuals. Over time, I have come to see this as a positive thing; I don't identify with any particular religious group, and I don't discriminate in practice against pretty much anyone on that basis -- I will date or befriend non-muslims. I am, however, somewhat surprised that I don't hear, frankly, more of voices like yours, but I suppose such voices would come from people who are comfortable in their environment, and for whom the difficulty of joining the "ummah" as full members, is a puzzle, rather than any kind of an impediment to a fully engaged life in America -- and you seem to be an example. Thanks for writing about this, and do continue to share thoughts about "the puzzle".

hi.about your subject,last week,ı joıned a lecture about fetullah gulen and modern ıslam ın turkey.his ideas is very reasonable.ı suggest you to read his ideas and his actions.ıt ıs a lıght for global peace ı thınk.hawe a nice day.bye.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I think that your main problem is not so much not being a Muslim enough, as it is your lack of self-respect. As an English speaking person, you should have long realized that your name, Butt, needs to be changed not because it is yours, but because it happens to refer to a "private body part"! Did any of your enlightened and "sincere" friends told you this? Probably not: they like it the way it is! But I, a Catholic, try to give you the best possible advice, and that is: drop this name or at least add an extra letter to it! And please, don't hate me for telling as it is!

Sorry to be so blunt, but I think that your main problem is not so much not being a Muslim enough, as it is your lack of self-respect. As an English speaking person, you should have long realized that your name, Butt, needs to be changed not because it is yours, but because it happens to refer to a "private body part"! Did any of your enlightened and "sincere" friends told you this? Probably not: they like it the way it is! But I, a Catholic, try to give you the best possible advice, and that is: drop this name or at least add an extra letter to it! And please, don't hate me for telling as it is!

Sorry to be so blunt, but I think that your main problem is not so much not being a Muslim enough, as it is your lack of self-respect. As an English speaking person, you should have long realized that your name, Butt, needs to be changed not because it is yours, but because it happens to refer to a "private body part"! Did any of your enlightened and "sincere" friends told you this? Probably not: they like it the way it is! But I, a Catholic, try to give you the best possible advice, and that is: drop this name or at least add an extra letter to it! And please, don't hate me for telling as it is!

Have you tried blowing up a bus full of kids or beheading a Jew?

That will take you to the head of the class.

Riazat,

I am a new convert to Islam and found your article very helpful. I myself battle with the condition of NME. As a white American i grew up unfamiliar with the culture and customs of Islam. While the lessons I am learning about my new religion are clarifying and beautiful, I struggle finding a place in the cultural aspect of the religion. It is difficult to forge a lifestyle of being American Muslim and a woman, and white. This demographic is growing but still very slim. I appreciate you voicing out as a modern, moderate Muslim the battle of finding your own place. Best of Luck.

Please, make the media stop this "discover Muslims" 24/7 blitz. It is an absolute affront. Riazat Butt doesn't have the experience to speak on it authoritatively. Saudi princes are spending scores of millions of dollars on middle east studies programs at our nation's best universities and on PR campaigns, of which this ABC/Washington Post circus is most definitely a small part. Where does it end? We know more than enough about Islam. Just stop it, please.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THAT OTHER VICTORIA IS-

ITS NOT THE PREVIOUS POSTER AT 12:51

but by now i think most people recgnize mt sans caps e e cummings type of writing

peace

Dear Riazat- this will not cheer you up, much, but I think there is another problem hiding in here. You are obviously also, very very intelligent. It's a grim and stupid reality, that highly intelligent women have a hard time making their way in the world. Too many people, male and female, seem to find them threatening- even when they give out no such signals.

The only answer I can offer is to be aware it, and try to shrug it off. You seem to me to be a very sound and lovely human. Hang in there- you're not really alone, though I know it can feel that way at times.

Raised in an upper middle class all white neighborhood, I wasn't black enough.
Subject and verb agreed, I wasn't black enough.
Monogrammed sweaters, argyle socks, penny loafers, I wasn't black enough.
Raised Catholic, I wasn't black enough.
Honor roll, speech and debate, latin club, I wasn't black enough.
Registered and Voted Republican, I wasn't black enough.
Went to college, I wasn't black enough.
Came out the closet, I wasn't black enough or lesbian enough.
Pro life, I wasn't black enough, lesbian enough, or woman enough.
Went to law school, I wasn't black enough.
Go for job interviews, I am black enough.
Up for promotion, I am black enough
Want to buy a house, I am black enough
Want to get a loan, I am black enough
Want to get insurance, I am black enough.

What else can I say?

people are seeming to forget that the young lady's job is specifically as a conduit to young muslim thoughts in britain-

she writes on a site called islamphone-
so, unless she wants to quit her job, or do it a non- religious perspective, she will have to find some comfort n her own skin as a muslim.

the only way muslims could be comfortable living in the west is to exactly like this chick.you can come to a society where most people are secular and be overtly religious without arousing suspicion.

Religion is not something you merely accept in the heart but not follow. It is a whole lifestyle. Even the most religious and fervent Christians, Muslims, Jews etc, would honestly say they are not CMJ enough, otherwise they would be claiming perfection. Ms. Bhatti, is clearly not leading an Islamic lifestyle and her religion is a lip service. In that case she will find anything Islamic groups offer, foreign and strange. Similarly, religioius organizations will find her company uncomfortable. So why is she a religious corespondent, beats me. Also, the negative ligt she is casting towards Muslims due to her lack of comfort level is just immature.

Don't worry about it (not feeling accepted). Life is lived more interestingly through encounters with people with whom we don't necessarily share much in common. I think its unreasonable for Muslims in the West to expect that they should get along only or best with other Muslims, or even with people from similar ethnic or immigrant backgrounds. Personally, I feel creepy when I'm in a room where everyone is the same or shares something very strong in common. Group think sets in. Let's break out of these walls, not build them higher.

i now only that about you. you dont know anythink islam

I agree with Wow

Wow:
It's because you're so hot. They're just jealous.

It is about time and there is nothing wrong with the way she feels. Religion should not be a crutch.
Steve

Riazat, all paths lead to paradise. Pick an interesting one! Enjoyed your article.

Riazat,

I totally relate to you, though in my case I grew-up in a predominately muslim country.

Riazat,

I totally relate to you, though in my case I grew-up in a predominately muslim country.

Riazat,

I totally relate to you, though in my case I grew-up in predominately muslime country.

Identity politics, one of the great scourges of, at least, American society. When it's politically expedient, I identify with this group or that. When it's politically expedient, I resent you identifying me with that same group.

Mohammed,

Not really!!! The white coat guys are reserved for those who believe in koranic "pwtfft"s, flying chariots, death to non-Islamics and an illiterate, warmongering, womanizing, hallucinating Arab named Mohammed.

Our Five Step Deprogramming is also available to you.

This is message for CONCERNED THE CHRISTIAN NOW LIBERATED,

It is time to take your medicine. I believe the men in white coats are looking for you!

Ahh, Malleck the "compassionate" Muslim whose koranic mind will not accept the reality of his warmongering religion!!!

Apparently you are not ready for deprogramming. Once you are, again here are the Five Easy Steps to eliminate your decades of Islamic brainwashing. Hmmm, maybe you can do it in one easy step. When you are ready, do a one and a two and a three and at the top of your lungs scream,

MOHAMMED WAS AN ILLITERATE, WOMANIZING, WARMONGERING FORTUNE TELLER!!!!!

CONCERNED THE CHRISTIAN NOW LIBERATED,

Shall I call a shrink for you?

Maybe you could then sign :

"INCURABLY HATEFUL THE MADMAN NOW CURED"?

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

You noted in your latest "Islam is perfect" yackety-yack: "so we as muslims have to learn to get alon well with others, be truly tolerant in our hearts, not just soundbytes."

Give us a break!!! Your warmongering religion continues to reek havoc across the globe.

We have a great Five Step Program that will easily deprogram your Islamic brainwashing.

Step one: Banish your "pwtfft"s to the myth pile.
Step two: Accept the reality that "Mo" never rode a chariot to heaven.
Step three: Scream to the top of your lungs that "Mo" was an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, fortune teller
Step four: Accept the fact that Mo's scribes plagiarized all the good works and sayings of the ancient religions.
Step five: Demand a rewrite of the koran.

Still have a clitoris = not muslim enough

Whatever...
In response to the post by 'concerned...'

BRAVO!!

Hey Riat,

You have been "Christianized" by living amongst us. Get out of Islam now. Be a "secular humanist, athiest, Christian, Hindu, Buddah, Zoastrian, Catholic --- you have choices now. Get out of Islam and join humanity. You only have one foot in Islam still, just remove it and join the human race!

Hey Riat,

You have been "Christianized" by living amongst us. Get out of Islam now. Be a "secular humanist, athiest, Christian, Hindu, Buddah, Zoastrian, Catholic --- you have choices now. Get out of Islam and join humanity. You only have one foot in Islam still, just remove it and join the human race!

RIAZAT..process one going through in lifes the development in understanding as our experience. Being that one can then adapt such abilities in understand as experience,then toward the essence of creation.RIAZAT..it matters little of one's religious beliefs,be of one faith other faiths as no faiths. It not of concern to the power of creation.What of concern is that one's heart as brain be in an state of preparation,to be given understanding experience of the high, that then one use it wisely,with humility,earning respect. It with regret on one's spiritual journey there many pitfalls,trials as tests one go though,yet there no other path unto enlightenment.Spiritual development only take place while in human form, human life the most precious of gifts.Starting spiritual journey one be an rough diamond,then through an process of learning become one that being polished,thus worthy an Queen in wearing. Such to represent the gaining of all knowledge. RIAZAT...if one raised on a diet of carrots,be taken to an restaurant,given choice,it most like they then ask for carrots.For "Humanity" in the spiritual sense,be weaned from an carrot diet.

Riazat, in the land of the free, America, you can be NME or you can be "not Christian enough," or you can be "not Jewish enough, or "not Italian enough" or "not black enough," or "not Indian enough," or "not Asian enough"... You can be an American. Congratulations and welcome to America the land of "not XYZ enough." Nobody, I mean nobody, has the right to impose their values or their restrictions on you. No one can force you to be "good enough." You are free and that is how God designed you and to live in a country where "not good enough" is the norm is a blessing. Tradition is just tradition in America and as in Fiddler on The Roof, if tradition makes no sense to you, then just ignore tradition. I am thankful for every day of my life because "not being good enough" is to be free.

Wa alaikum a salaam bro isa-

well, im on the other side of the pond from the young sister but her feeling of being NME comes from the judgement of people, it seems to me- and msulims at that.

ISA-
"-Me and you cannot make up what Allah's will is. It is well defined in the Qur'an that Allah's will is for believers to Submit themselves to Him under Islam."

true enough isa-
thanks for being a firm reminder
it takes courage to declare your faith openly especially in a forum like this- which attracts alot of people who find some of the practices of muslims to be restricting-

when in fact- it is a deliberate self control exerted-

luckily, my own experiences were self imposed- and if they'd been imposed on me by other people- id have certainly chomped at the bit to be free of them-

people are like water in your hand- when you grasp and control it too tightly- it runs out in every direction-

when you hold it loosely and gently, it will find its own form.

i think this young lady has probably experienced more of a cultural restriction-
but all i know is her article here- so i cant judge.

its good that you remind her of the framework and boundaries of her religion-

these are things she can return to willingly
but we dont know that her truth and her way are displeasing to ALLAH-

she may be performing a service for islam that isnt immediately apparent-

also to your second point-
""repent and make amends and openly declare The Truth.""And turn aside from those who join gods with Allah"."

so we have to be gentle- how do we know she has anything to repent?

and you see the encouragement she gets form non-muslim sources-

be an individual, you are fine the way you are-

if she felt fine the way she is, she wouldnt have written this very revealing article about herself- which requires alot of guts to admit to insecuries

but a muslim knows that, while we have a duty to be true to ourselves and individuality- to do so too much results in selfish behavior-

there has to be a balance between the needs of society, which we have an obligation to- and our own needs.

western society in general values the needs of the individual above and over the needs of society-(and this just feeds the insatiable ego) often to the point of ignoring it completely until it reaches crisis proportions. then the recriminations start.
ISA-
"But, does this mean that Muslims should give up their Islamic identities in order to be accepted?"

i have to say, one cannot confuse islamic identity with their own cultural traditions.

maybe some of the expereinces she is having is in the experiences of many first generation immigrant kids-

as you see,my name is victoria.
i didnt change my identity when i became muslim-
so when people start talking about things like islamic identity- i find it is often code for a certain ethnicity or cultural heritage-

but muslims are involved in a kind of modern diaspora right now-
living in countries where they are facing being a minority for the first time-
so we as muslims have to learn to get alon well with others, be truly tolerant in our hearts, not just soundbytes-

and this means interacting with, befriending and repsecting people of different faiths and beliefs-

we cannot say- islam is peace- it teaches tolerance- and then expect the mountain to come to us- so to speak.

we have to live it- and that includes letting people have some control of how they define their own identity, and their own truth too.

otherwise we will suffocate people with our "love"

ok, isa- i have a tendency to go on and on so i better stop
peace and thanks for the strong faith youve bravely shared with us

i also lament that one can spout just about any philosophy but being faithful is just not politically correct
peace

so, indeed i will fault you for caring too much.
would that we all shared that fault.

Riazat,

What you wrote, and what this thread of comments is about, is outside of my real understanding and comprehension, because they're too far removed from my own life experience.

So I probably shouldn't post a comment at all.

But I did notice this comment from Mohammed Choudhury:

"Salam,

"Riazat, The only person that will judge you on whether you were Muslim enough is Allah (SWT)."

Many people will judge you on many things, some negatively. This happens to everyone.

Do not let yourself be judged by anyone, unless you agree with what they say. They have no exalted knowledge of you and no authority to judge you.

As for Allah: Even though you (I assume) believe in His existence and in Him, don't concern yourself with His judgments of you, since you can have no way of knowing them.

If Allah is indeed merciful, you have nothing to fear.

I am sure you will find your true way in life. May all good things come to you.

You are very pretty, though.

Riazat...do you need to be held?

ARIF -- RE: YOUR POST AT 2:23 P.M.

DREW -- RE: YOUR POST AT 3:09 P.M.

Sorry, Gentlemen, I took my time in responding.

ARIF, So you don't believe in the Devil, do you? What do you think overpowered MOHAMED MALLECK when he was writing his post at 3:10 p.m.? The devil, buster, need not be anthropomorphic. Good and evil (and godliness and the devil) are the results of a PROCESS involving the hardwiring, over time, of VALUES in our minds caused by the repetitive firing of neurones in our brains, which, in turn is controlled by emotions that regulate our heartbeats as well as the circuit of electrical synapses in our brains (read, among other books, Anotnio D'Amaio's "Descartes' Error and "How the Brain Makes Up Its Mind" for a clearer explanation, in addition to more rational and conscious cogitations.

It was this Devil that, for a split second overpowered me. If you don't beleive me, read my earlier post at 12:55 p.m.

DREW,So, you were hoping for a less religious world, right? A world more in the image of Blackwater perhaps? A world the opposite of Werner Heisenberg's perhaps?

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/heisenberg07/heisenberg07_index.html

Ah, well! In Latin they say: De coloris et gustibus non disputandum est.

Have a good weekend both of you!

while i completely respect your choice and don't feel like you should feel compelled to act like something you are not, I do wonder how you are qualified to be a religious affairs correspondent. if you are this lukewarm about faith in general then find another beat you are more passionate about.

What about these Quranic verses?

Quranic verse for Women

2:228, And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them
2:230, So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her
2:282, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
4:3, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
4:11-12, Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females:
4:34, Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
53:27, Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names
66:10, Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: “Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!”
It is forbidden for a woman to be seen by any man except her husband when she is made up or well-dressed. (TR. P 430)
3. A woman is not a believer if she undertakes a journey which may last three days or longer, unless she is accompanied by her husband, son, father or brother. (TR. P 431 )
4. A woman must veil herself even in the presence of her husband's father, brother and other male relations. (TR. P 432)
5. She is forbidden to spend any money without the permission of her husband, and it includes giving food to the needy or feast to friends. (TR. P 265)
6. A wife is forbidden to perform extra prayers (NAFAL) or observe fasting (other than RAMADAN) without the permission of her husband. (TR. P 300)
7. If prostration were a legitimate act other than to God, woman should have prostrated to her husband. (TR. P 428)
8. If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428) 9. The marriage of woman to her man is not substantive. It is precarious. For example if the father of the husband orders his son to divorce his wife, he must do so. (TR. P 440)
11. Majority of women would go to hell. (Muslim P 1431)
12. If a woman refuses to come to bed when invited by her husband, she becomes the target of the curses of angles. Exactly the same happens if she deserts her husband's bed. (Bokhari P 93)
13. The women who are ungrateful to their men, are the denizens of hell; it is an act of ingratitude for a woman to say: "I have never seen any good from you." (Bokhari P 96)
14. A woman in many ways is deprived of the possession of her own body. Even her milk belongs to her husband. (Bokhari P 27)

Riazt:

I could care less how muslim you are because you sure look yummy to me. Any more photos you are hot!

Riazt:

I could care less how muslim you are because you sure look yummy to me. Any more photos you are hot!

Riazt:

I could care less how muslim you are because you sure look yummy to me. Any more photos you are hot!

People of faith of other faiths often feel this way. My wife feels this way often. Now we embrace our individuality and trust that God embraces it too, since he made us this way. People of faith are diverse. Let's stop putting them in a box.

So many of these comments... bringing up "God"... it's annoying.

Here's the question: What do you really want? Do you want to be one of them? And by "them" I don't imply just Muslims, but any particular mass. Do you really want to belong? You and I both know that the race of man is pathetic, at best.

Over the years, I feel like I've become more Jewish than a Muslim. I'm certainly much smarter than most (if not every) Muslims I've come across.

I tire of them preaching all the rules and edicts I should follow, and then see them eat pork-ribs for lunch. "Do as I say, not as I do." Hypocrites.

I never liked being told what to do-- certainly not by those who don't even compare to me in skills or talent. And that seems to be the problem. I can't seem to assimilate into this stupidity (I'm not singling out Muslims... I dislike organized groups with an agenda for promoting something that benefits only the said group).

I'm not sure if you give me some hope for my kind or not. But then again, I'm not sure what "kind" I am even anymore. At least you're a little different from the rest of the masses...

Good luck! You're gonna need it.

Hey,

Riazat,

Are you ever in SF?

I'd like to meet you sometime.

Anthony "Tony" Hernandez
ajhernandez@mypoli.org

Riazat,

Islam is inversely proportional to Humanity, before its too late:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/

Riazat, in my view your concerns are completely normal.

It doesn't hurt to listen to others, but in the end fuel your life with authenticity and integrity, at least as you understand them....and you'll be fine. I think you largely do this now.

The only God in charge of your destiny by the way is your own consciousness. Meditate and follow Its inner promptings and strange as it may seem, your highest path will find you.

Congratulations, Riazat, on your path to freedom. It is such a wonderful feeling to breathe deeply and freely for not having to defend your thinking any more to others who desperately try to wield power over you.

Salam,

Riazat, The only person that will judge you on whether you were Muslim enough is Allah (SWT).

If you are not happpy with your social circles then you need to make a greater effort to socialise or need to change your sets of friends. It's as simple as that.

I have lots of close Muslim and non-muslim friends, we all get along very well and enjoy each others company. I have also met many Muslims and non-muslims that I did not get along, so we did not socialise any further.

Don't make a big deal out of it and don't blame religion. Get out there and make some friends!

Salam,

The only person that will judge you on whether you were Muslim enough is Allah (SWT).

If you are not happpy with your social circles then you need to make a greater effort to socialise or need to change your sets of friends. It's as simple as that.

I have lots of close Muslim and non-muslim friends, we all get along very well and enjoy each others company. I have also met many Muslims and non-muslims that I did not get along, so we did not socialise any further.

Don't make a big deal out of it and don't blame religion. Get out there and make some friends!

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

My goodness your Islamic "wishy-wash" is alive and well.

You noted: "muslims need to be less cliquish- more engaging-more concerned with the communities they live in- not where their parents lived."

Again you failed to complete the commentary. Allow me. "but leave your koran behind on the dust pile of myths and hallucinations. And ensure your neighbors that you detest all the militaristic and anti-female passages of said koran to the point of joining the Islam of Modern Reality and its newest member Riazat Butt."

Salam Aleykom sister Victoria,
I am very glad that you decided to analyze my comment and respond to it. I knew that most Muslims, and non-Muslims would disagree with it.I will attempt to respond to your comments using our Sacred Book as a reference.

"maybe the will of ALLAH is for the young lady to live in her society and let the other non-muslims see a person before a religion"

-Me and you cannot make up what Allah's will is. It is well defined in the Qur'an that Allah's will is for believers to Submit themselves to Him under Islam.

"{[Remember] when your Lord extracted from the loins of Adam's children and their descendents and made them testify [saying] : 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes, we testify to it.' [This was] in case you say on the Day of Judgment: 'We were unaware of this.' Or you say: 'It was our ancestors who worshipped others besides God and we are only their descendents. Will you then destroy us for what those liars did?' " The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 7, Verses 172-3

-It should be the greatest joy to each believer to testify La Ilaha Illallah.

"do you forget that calling a believer a non-believer-(when they really are) you yourself become that which you accuse one of?"

-Among many things, believers "repent and make amends and openly declare The Truth.""And turn aside from those who join gods with Allah". A true believer would not want to change the Will of God, but would seek to implement it to his own situation. Implementing it meaning that you Submit to His will, without choosing some things and discarding others. It is true I should not judge for only Allah can judge. You can fault me for the fact that I do care about humankind, and even though the truth may hurt, it is still my duty to spread it.

"muslims need to be less cliquish- more engaging-
more concerned with the communities they live in- not where their parents lived-"

-This sounds good, and I agree with you. I'll even take it a step further and say that Muslims in all communities should be concerned and engaged in the happenings of the community. But, does this mean that Muslims should give up their Islamic identities in order to be accepted? No way...I prescribe the opposite. Muslims should more than ever raise their voices and speak loudly about all the ills affecting societies today.Of course,as Muslims we know that the only cure to all these ills is Submission to Allah. With this, Muslims cannot compromise.

-Again, I re-emphasize that claiming to be a Muslim or growing up in an Islamic family does not mean you are really Muslim. Submitting to Allah and following all He prescribed in the Holy Qur'an makes you a Muslim. There arent many true Muslims.
Most of us fall under the category of struggling Muslims.

Salam Aleykom sister Victoria,
I am very glad that you decided to analyze my comment and respond to it. I knew that most Muslims, and non-Muslims would disagree with it.I will attempt to respond to your comments using our Sacred Book as a reference.

"maybe the will of ALLAH is for the young lady to live in her society and let the other non-muslims see a person before a religion"

-Me and you cannot make up what Allah's will is. It is well defined in the Qur'an that Allah's will is for believers to Submit themselves to Him under Islam.

"{[Remember] when your Lord extracted from the loins of Adam's children and their descendents and made them testify [saying] : 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes, we testify to it.' [This was] in case you say on the Day of Judgment: 'We were unaware of this.' Or you say: 'It was our ancestors who worshipped others besides God and we are only their descendents. Will you then destroy us for what those liars did?' " The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 7, Verses 172-3

-It should be the greatest joy to each believer to testify La Ilaha Illallah.

"do you forget that calling a believer a non-believer-(when they really are) you yourself become that which you accuse one of?"

-Among many things, believers "repent and make amends and openly declare The Truth.""And turn aside from those who join gods with Allah". A true believer would not want to change the Will of God, but would seek to implement it to his own situation. Implementing it meaning that you Submit to His will, without choosing some things and discarding others. It is true I should not judge for only Allah can judge. You can fault me for the fact that I do care about humankind, and even though the truth may hurt, it is still my duty to spread it.

"muslims need to be less cliquish- more engaging-
more concerned with the communities they live in- not where their parents lived-"

-This sounds good, and I agree with you. I'll even take it a step further and say that Muslims in all communities should be concerned and engaged in the happenings of the community. But, does this mean that Muslims should give up their Islamic identities in order to be accepted? No way...I prescribe the opposite. Muslims should more than ever raise their voices and speak loudly about all the ills affecting societies today.Of course,as Muslims we know that the only cure to all these ills is Submission to Allah. With this, Muslims cannot compromise.

-Again, I re-emphasize that claiming to be a Muslim or growing up in an Islamic family does not mean you are really Muslim. Submitting to Allah and following all He prescribed in the Holy Qur'an makes you a Muslim. There arent many true Muslims.
Most of us fall under the category of struggling Muslims.

Salam Aleykom sister Victoria,
I am very glad that you decided to analyze my comment and respond to it. I knew that most Muslims, and non-Muslims would disagree with it.I will attempt to respond to your comments using our Sacred Book as a reference.

"maybe the will of ALLAH is for the young lady to live in her society and let the other non-muslims see a person before a religion"

-Me and you cannot make up what Allah's will is. It is well defined in the Qur'an that Allah's will is for believers to Submit themselves to Him under Islam.

"{[Remember] when your Lord extracted from the loins of Adam's children and their descendents and made them testify [saying] : 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes, we testify to it.' [This was] in case you say on the Day of Judgment: 'We were unaware of this.' Or you say: 'It was our ancestors who worshipped others besides God and we are only their descendents. Will you then destroy us for what those liars did?' " The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 7, Verses 172-3

-It should be the greatest joy to each believer to testify La Ilaha Illallah.

"do you forget that calling a believer a non-believer-(when they really are) you yourself become that which you accuse one of?"

-Among many things, believers "repent and make amends and openly declare The Truth.""And turn aside from those who join gods with Allah". A true believer would not want to change the Will of God, but would seek to implement it to his own situation. Implementing it meaning that you Submit to His will, without choosing some things and discarding others. It is true I should not judge for only Allah can judge. You can fault me for the fact that I do care about humankind, and even though the truth may hurt, it is still my duty to spread it.

"muslims need to be less cliquish- more engaging-
more concerned with the communities they live in- not where their parents lived-"

-This sounds good, and I agree with you. I'll even take it a step further and say that Muslims in all communities should be concerned and engaged in the happenings of the community. But, does this mean that Muslims should give up their Islamic identities in order to be accepted? No way...I prescribe the opposite. Muslims should more than ever raise their voices and speak loudly about all the ills affecting societies today.Of course,as Muslims we know that the only cure to all these ills is Submission to Allah. With this, Muslims cannot compromise.

-Again, I re-emphasize that claiming to be a Muslim or growing up in an Islamic family does not mean you are really Muslim. Submitting to Allah and following all He prescribed in the Holy Qur'an makes you a Muslim. There arent many true Muslims.
Most of us fall under the category of struggling Muslims.

Salam Aleykom sister Victoria,
I am very glad that you decided to analyze my comment and respond to it. I knew that most Muslims, and non-Muslims would disagree with it.I will attempt to respond to your comments using our Sacred Book as a reference.

"maybe the will of ALLAH is for the young lady to live in her society and let the other non-muslims see a person before a religion"

-Me and you cannot make up what Allah's will is. It is well defined in the Qur'an that Allah's will is for believers to Submit themselves to Him under Islam.

"{[Remember] when your Lord extracted from the loins of Adam's children and their descendents and made them testify [saying] : 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes, we testify to it.' [This was] in case you say on the Day of Judgment: 'We were unaware of this.' Or you say: 'It was our ancestors who worshipped others besides God and we are only their descendents. Will you then destroy us for what those liars did?' " The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 7, Verses 172-3

-It should be the greatest joy to each believer to testify La Ilaha Illallah.

"do you forget that calling a believer a non-believer-(when they really are) you yourself become that which you accuse one of?"

-Among many things, believers "repent and make amends and openly declare The Truth.""And turn aside from those who join gods with Allah". A true believer would not want to change the Will of God, but would seek to implement it to his own situation. Implementing it meaning that you Submit to His will, without choosing some things and discarding others. It is true I should not judge for only Allah can judge. You can fault me for the fact that I do care about humankind, and even though the truth may hurt, it is still my duty to spread it.

"muslims need to be less cliquish- more engaging-
more concerned with the communities they live in- not where their parents lived-"

-This sounds good, and I agree with you. I'll even take it a step further and say that Muslims in all communities should be concerned and engaged in the happenings of the community. But, does this mean that Muslims should give up their Islamic identities in order to be accepted? No way...I prescribe the opposite. Muslims should more than ever raise their voices and speak loudly about all the ills affecting societies today.Of course,as Muslims we know that the only cure to all these ills is Submission to Allah. With this, Muslims cannot compromise.

-Again, I re-emphasize that claiming to be a Muslim or growing up in an Islamic family does not mean you are really Muslim. Submitting to Allah and following all He prescribed in the Holy Qur'an makes you a Muslim. There arent many true Muslims.
Most of us fall under the category of struggling Muslims.

Riazat,

It is easy to be Muslim Enough when you surround yourself with nothing but the trappings of your religion and people who believe exactly as you do. To surround yourself with friends of varied beliefs and lifestyles, in a social setting full of diversity, and yet still choose to be Muslim -- that takes true conviction.

It may, one day, come down to a choice for you. Which is more important, your beliefs (religious, but also social and cultural) or your desire to be fully accepted by the Muslim community from which your feel shut out?

Perhaps, more importantly, you need to ask yourself: Am I Muslim Enough for me?

As Salaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah!
I pray that this communique will find you in the full protection of Allah.
NME is not a status that any of us can place on one another. The beauty of Islam is it is based on your relationship between you and your Lord. Each of us have to live our live on one of two things, and they are our understanding or our lack of understand. Unfortuantly most of us op out on the latter. Hijab is very important and it is something that every Muslim sister should wear, but there are much worst thing that we get involved in other than not wearing hijab. Like Khibar (arrogance) My advice is continue doing you work for the pleasure of Allah and inhsa Allah you will grow as he sees fit. Never let others determin you worth as a Muslim. Only seek your Lords approval.
Your Brother in Islam,
Bilal Mahmud

As Salaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah!
I pray that this communique will find you in the full protection of Allah.
NME is not a status that any of us can place on one another. The beauty of Islam is it is based on your relationship between you and your Lord. Each of us have to live our live on one of two things, and they are our understanding or our lack of understand. Unfortuantly most of us op out on the latter. Hijab is very important and it is something that every Muslim sister should wear, but there are much worst thing that we get involved in other than not wearing hijab. Like Khibar (arrogance) My advice is continue doing you work for the pleasure of Allah and inhsa Allah you will grow as he sees fit. Never let others determin you worth as a Muslim. Only seek your Lords approval.
Your Brother in Islam,
Bilal Mahmud

As Salaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah!
I pray that this communique will find you in the full protection of Allah.
NME is not a status that any of us can place on one another. The beauty of Islam is it is based on your relationship between you and your Lord. Each of us have to live our live on one of two things, and they are our understanding or our lack of understand. Unfortuantly most of us op out on the latter. Hijab is very important and it is something that every Muslim sister should wear, but there are much worst thing that we get involved in other than not wearing hijab. Like Khibar (arrogance) My advice is continue doing you work for the pleasure of Allah and inhsa Allah you will grow as he sees fit. Never let others determin you worth as a Muslim. Only seek your Lords approval.
Your Brother in Islam,
Bilal Mahmud

What you are describing is what lot of people, who are born of an immigrant family, go through. I don't think it matters whether they are muslim, hindu, or something else. They occupy a unique space in the cultural continuum. Their mannerisms are different, their thought processes are different, no matter how much you try to blend in they still stand out. They are neither completely here or there.

Dear Sister,
If you are overly concerned with measuring up, you are indeed poised on the head of a pin.
My understanding of God is that He wishes us to be happy, not torn and not blind. A vague feeling of guilt is not a good reason to react, although self-analysis is beneficial (up to a point). God is forgiving and loving, and has no agenda other than our salvation. God allows, indeed seems to require, that we explore the world and find for ourselves where the truth lies. I am a Christian and a sinner, and yet I find a forgiving God when I turn to Him.
So do what is right and what you believe God wants, love all you meet and treat each with deference and respect. Together we can change this world from hateful and splintered to loving and cohesive. One person at a time. May God continue to bless you and yours.

for goodness sake, why are we subjected to your identity crisis. guess what? i'm muslims, i don't talk about islam all the time, AND i have muslims friends. we talk about normal stuff, just like everyone else.

half the kids at ISNA went out the bars after the convention. its all in your head.

i swear, some of the most judgemental people in the world must be the most extremely religious which, you would assume, would mean they are the most extremely nice, and gentle, and accepting, and so on, since most religions seem to preach that sort of behavior.

Sadly, it tends to be the opposite, and when dealing with such extremists one can never be "enough," whether it is christian or muslim or whatever.

Jesus said to love your neighbor as yurself, and said your neighbor was a samaritan, an unbeliever, one not of your faith.

That should have been enough. One wonders if jesus could measure up today. I suspect not.

As one brought up in the Hindu faith, I am unable to relate to faiths which have an organizational set up - including the Christian, Muslim and Jewish faith. In Hinduism there is no central authority nor is fear of hell used to force one to pray. No doubt a heaven is used as an inducement to pray and submit to the will of God. Having seen religeon as the single most common reason for the killing of human beings on this planet (Crusades, holocaust, Palastine, Hindu-Muslim riots, tribal killings in Burundi, and now the post 9/11 situation), I feel being a nice human being, kind to others, some on who does not cheat, steal or harm other humans is all that matters. If this can be achieved through a religeon so be it, if not we need to wait for people to realize this. When ever there is organized religeon there is a need to increase the group size and there is a hatred for some one not belonging to the group or who is a non-believer. This extends to death in muslim countries.

Hopefully in a few centuries humans will be free of hatred for others - whether it is through a sea change in the way of the various religeons or by casting aside one's religeon and following the religeon of humanity. Till then humans will kill and hate and others who do not belong to their particular religeon, or those who are not NME, NCE, NJE, NHE and NBE.

To Riazat Butt,
our universe started from the Big Bang and eventually our planet was formed and life started
out of chemical reactions in a pool of soupy water
and life evolved and will continue to evolve.
In my opinion there is no omnipotent superior god.
It was invented for practical reasons.
We are human, imperfect and some had hallucinations pretending a god has spoken to them.
Don't fall prey of the theocracts. You can find
spirituality in arts, in loving and helping the needy,your family, your community, democracy. Your democratic community will help you in case of need.
In addition to the web sides suggested by the commentators that preceeded me, I suggest you
go to: www.jesusneverexisted.com.
Don't model yourself to please your questionable friends. Stand up for the truth.

RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES!!! NO MATTER WHICH FAITH!! ITS ALL A SCAM!! DONT FALL FOR IT DEAR READERS!!

The organized religions (or, should I say a cult founded by an individual) such as Islam and Christianity are screwed up due to lack of support for religious freedom for its followers. A human being is spiritual/religious by nature and should be allowed to believe in what works for him/her. The religion is also private which means that one has no right to impose ones belief on others. People should respect each others beliefs and should not be a subject for argument although an analytical mind will trash a belief which is absurd. Let reasoning guide the individual for spiritual development.

Being Muslim(or any other religion) enough, in the sense that you are lazy enough to define yourself primarily by your religion, should not generally be considered a good thing.

Spirituality, on the other hand, is much more effective if it is personal.

I was raised Catholic, studied for priesthood as a young man in Philadelphia and am now 55 and a grandfather twice over. I am not, and never have been Catholic enough. It is because I never wanted to be and do not wish to be so now. I want to be who I am, whatever that might mean in all of its limitations, confusion, murkiness of direction and purpose and in all of its narrowness. I am "me". "Catholic" is a term that is much too narrow to encompass who I am or who I will ever want to be.

Riazat Butt is young, beautiful, introspective, fully alive and obviously human. That is enough.

Raziat -- u r a babe. If I met you at a party, I can guarantee we would find some non-religious common ground.

I believe God does not judge one by the rituals or circumambulations one does around an edifice; nor by the cloth you wear or by any of the external preamble many place on faith - after all who decides what make a good Muslim, Christian, or Buddhist? God resides in all of us, regardless of what name you ascribe him to be. Let your faith be your guiding principle and I think you'll be just fine.

Riazat:

Would you be so kind as to respond to the posts so far? They are revealing in the way each person sees someone different, from the religious Christians like Canyon who see you as hellbound for not being Christian, to religious Muslims like Mohamad who see you as at risk of being hellbound if you do not sufficiently return to the fold, to non-religious people who see you as human, to Wow who sees you as hot, and to Peter who likes beans.

How do you see us?

Anjem Choudhary is an ugly little troll, which partly explains his bitterness. You on the other hand are quite delectable. if you ever decide to pop over to Gujranwala (ancestral home of the Butts) for a quick lunch of fried partridges, please do look me up :)

Thank you, sis-- umm... Ms. Butt. You could be speaking for me. Pretty much everything you said is true of me too.

The funny thing is I used to go for the whole Islam scene, but now I feel a need to be more selective. At my somewhat advanced age (I'm a young grandmother) I've evolved into the sort of Muslim you described yourself as being. I can definitely relate. I appreciate the company of non-Muslims to be able to understand myself in relation to the universe as a whole woman--as you said, my religion is only part of who I am, and I want my boundaries respected too. In my case it felt like the process of maturing. Sounds like you had this level of maturity all along.

i cant agree isa-

maybe the will of ALLAH is for the young lady to live in her society and let the other non-muslims see a person before a religion.

" it is because you are not really Muslim. This is not a knock on you, or that you are NME. All it means is that you have not taken the path of the true believers yet!"

do you forget that calling a believer a non-believer-(when they really are) you yourself become that which you accuse one of?

be careful with these judgements- this is not islamic!

i DID NOT have the benefit of being raised in a muslim family, but came to islam consciously, myself, without the benefit of knowing one single muslim.

i came to it through prayer(mostly) and study
and i indeed went through a sever culture shock when i first encountered muslims-

muslims need to be less cliquish- more engaging-
more concerned with the communities they live in- not where their parents lived-

who are te people deserving of your charity?
muslims?
or your neighbors 4 houses in every direction?
remember the neighbor of the Prophet(pbuh) who was jewish.
the kindness and concern Rasul(pbuh) extended to her resulted in her becoming muslim, didnt it?

i pray 5x- fast, wear hijab blah blah blah all the outward superficial manifestations of islam-
but that doesnt make me a muslim.
it is the internal work of polishing my heart that does.

remember the woman who tied her cat to a pole and let it starve to death?
was she a muslim?

no- we know she was not-

dont worry about helping believers to understand- they already do-

worry about the potential muslims that you're ignoring

you're on a board with many other people but you only extend a peace greeting to muslims-

how does that give islam a good face?

i adjure you and other muslims to extend the hand of friendship to those outside of your insular ethnic and religious group-

it is this exclusivism that is exactly the problem in islam in the world today-

we need to look at our own behavior that makes people feel alienated from their own umma-

the ummah is dismal in its outreach efforts.

this young lady is doing dawa with her efforts.

you are, even though your intentions may be good-
scaring people away with judgementalism.

no one anywhere knows the heart condition even of the person standing in prayer next to them.

certainly encouraging her to pray is excellent advice, but we mustnt include statements, that- actually ARE knocking her.

i hope you dont feel i was too hard on you
islam is easy- it is not harsh

a salaamu alaikum to you and peace to all

Your confusion about being NME is due to you worrying about what other people think and their judgements of you. That is normal to some extent but you need to understand that when people, either Muslim, Christian or of other religions who evaluate you based on their religion beliefs, they are bigotted. These bigots think that anyone not furvently in the religion is an outsider.

Timothy Leary was a famous psychologist from the 1960s who lead a hippie movement that experimented in drugs, free love, etc. He noted the story of a child would would catch birds, paint their heads with paint, and let them go and watch as the bird flew back to its flock where the other birds would peck at it because the painted bird was now different. The painted bird, not knowing any better, continued to try to join the flock. It would eventually die from the pecking by its fellow birds. Leary called his hippie following "painted birds" because they were treated harshly by society because they looked and acted differently. Leary later wrote that the hippies, who grew to a large number in San Francisco, reversed this situation, harshly attacking the average person for not trying drugs, free love, etc. Leary wrote that his many painted birds were attacking the flock.

You seem to be a smart woman who knows who she is. You do not need a label for yourself or a group you can be a "member" of. To do so is to paint onesself and then begin attacking those not like you once you find others painted the same way. That is what you experienced, Muslims who decided you were NME and passed on becoming a friend. It may be difficult but you should simply walk away from those painted birds, don't peck at them, just ignore them and live as confortable and happy a life as possible with people you get along with.

As for Canyon, He's just another painted bird who keeps pouring paint on himself and screams "Look at me! This paint will get me into heaven! Be like me because you are NCE!" Ignore him and others who tell you that you are a bad person or not wearing the right paint (religion). And don't think you are NME. You are human enough and so should be treated with respect, and that is all we humans should demand, respect for our beliefs whether religiously derived or not, because all humans have beliefs of some sort. Religions just define them and require adherence. But those who are NME or NCE still have beliefs in goodness, charity, respectfulness, etc. No one has more beliefs than another person, just differing beliefs, beliefs that need to be respected if they result in a good person, which you seem to be, and so you have won respect from this bird whose color is not important.

Riazat Butt is to be congratulated. Her spirituality is her own business. It belongs to her; no one else can wear it. Since Riazat has recognized that she has an individuality, she should follow it to the limit. Few people that are tied to a religious order get this kind of chance. The further that she gets from the established order, the more confidence she will gain.

i am in complete sympathy with Ms. Riazat Butt. she is smart, articulate and confident in her abilities.
and for me, she is "muslim enough," that is, she is a ME!
all she has to do is live her life as she sees fit. what she wears or how/whether she prays is nobody's business but hers!
i have a motto in life for the over zealous religious adherent: "hey, can i go to hell in peace.?"

Riazat ... hang in there and dont be despondent! you have many friends in the UK and in US.
sincerely,
Mofi alKamudi

I like beans.

I like beans.

I like beans.

I like beans.

I like beans.

I like beans.

I like beans.

Salam Aleykom to all the Muslims in the world!
May the peace that Islam brings spread throughout the lands inhabited by holy creations.
I want to thank God for blessing us with His Holy grace and endowing us with His intellect. It is with this intellect that we strive to reach truth and nearness to our Creator. It is also this intellect that allows us to reason and understand the physical and spiritual world we inhabit.

I am truly honored to be able to help believers in God reach a true understanding of His Majesty. Truly, a Muslim is one who submits to the will of God, not by force, but by his own efforts. So, if you were born into a Muslim family, and you don't feel Muslim enough, it is because you are not really Muslim. This is not a knock on you, or that you are NME. All it means is that you have not taken the path of the true believers yet! You could start any day the sun rises...Submit yourself completely to the will of God!
You might ask, why would I do that? or How do you know that I haven't submitted completely to God?
If you don't feel part of the Muslim ummah, this should be the reason why.

Salam Aleykom to all the Muslims in the world!
May the peace that Islam brings spread throughout the lands inhabited by holy creations.
I want to thank God for blessing us with His Holy grace and endowing us with His intellect. It is with this intellect that we strive to reach truth and nearness to our Creator. It is also this intellect that allows us to reason and understand the physical and spiritual world we inhabit.

I am truly honored to be able to help believers in God reach a true understanding of His Majesty. Truly, a Muslim is one who submits to the will of God, not by force, but by his own efforts. So, if you were born into a Muslim family, and you don't feel Muslim enough, it is because you are not really Muslim. This is not a knock on you, or that you are NME. All it means is that you have not taken the path of the true believers yet! You could start any day the sun rises...Submit yourself completely to the will of God!
You might ask, why would I do that? or How do you know that I haven't submitted completely to God?
If you don't feel part of the Muslim ummah, this should be the reason why.

you're straddling a bridge divide riazat-

ive been to the ISNA convention in rosemont twice-
once as a babysitter- (15 hours a day for 4 days) and once as a visitor.

it was more american than i am
just a big mall

do you consider yourself a practicing muslim?

i cant tell you how many times ive been accused of not being a real muslim- especially on these boards-

any group of people you can categorize you'll find rude ones and kind ones.

im in new york, so muslims arent exactly being applauded here either.

dont worry about the muslims, worry more about how you're perceived by your countrymen.

im actually happy to see some self-critique of muslims by muslims as it iseems to be taboo=
(or theres enough critique from other quarters that its not necessary )

peace

Riazat: I'm sorry that so many (but not all) of the responders missed the entire point of your piece. I also apologize on behalf of all decent Americans for the bigotry and rudeness displayed by some of the responders as well...

As a non-practicing Christian descended from Christians (I'm NCE), one would assume that I share your situation, but I don't. Members of the 'majority' are allowed more leeway in adopting the traits of their population. Members of 'minority' populations aren't as lucky.

All of the commenters that tell you that you 'seem nice enough' and not to worry about it miss the point. Society-at-large defines you as a member of the Muslim Community but because you haven't embraced all of the expected traits of the Muslim Community, they don't recognize you as a 'true member' of the Muslim Community either.

Nick in Atlanta. Say something.Respond to this disgusting nutbag.

NICK, ATLANTA, GA.

Oh, C'mon, Nick.

It IS Al Jazeera you're reading, don't tell me you did not notice!

But, in case you want to read WAPO, let me know which story you want to read:

(i) the senator who solicited gay sex in an airtport toilet? or

(ii) the woman who, during a party, ripped off the testicle of her ex because he refused to have sex with her, put it in her mouth to swallow and choked whereupon another male guest came along picked up the testicle, handed it to the ex saying "I think this is yours"? (Apologies to WAPO; this was an MSNBC story)

Mohamed Malleck;
you write...
" The new, more assertive, confident Muslim identity is yet to fully emerge."

You're kidding! I don't know how much more Muslim assertiveness the rest of us can take.Do you want to totally dominate the whole world? Islam has already changed the western world quite enough for me.
Personally I was hoping for a less religiously spooky world ahead.Anything but more religion.
I would say this in Islam's favor,it has helped create atheists.I attribute atheism's growing popularity to the outrageous acts of 9/11 and elsewhere,and the many concessions Muslims demand from the west in accommodating them.
Why come here to get a better life,and then want to change everything.Enough already.

Getting back on topic....

Riazat--It it interesting that you feel NME being in the UK. I just returned to the States from a short visit to the UK for a cousin's wedding. My impression is always that there is more cohesion over there due to larger communities, and in my case, more familial connections. Being part of the only branch of my family that is State-side, I find it difficult to relate and talk to my family over there as they don't understand having a life outside of the community/family. My parents spent the weekend explaining to their siblings/in-laws (again) why their 28-year-old daughter doesn't live with them. They use the excuse that I'm still in school. Well, I worked for a few years before I went back to school, they just can't say to them, "Well, she wants to live on her own", because that just isn't done. Fortunately for me, my parents are supportive my decisions, and I have wonderful network of friends. Whether or not they are muslim does not matter to me, if my muslim-ness mattered to them, they would not be my friend.

Riazat,

This is not a phenomenon only for Muslims. I think anyone who was not raised particularly religiously feels that way whether you're Muslim, Christian, or Jewish.

I was raised as a secular Jew who had only several years of religious education. When I tried to connect with other Jews at different points I never felt "Jewish" enough either. Only now that I am an adult have I found a Jewish community that is right for me in the Reconstructionist movement.

Perhaps you will find a community right for you but it probably won't be from Facebook.

Riazat,
I think you make an incorrect assumption that you are a minority in "not being Muslim enough." I consider myself a practicing Muslim woman, but I have a career, don't really enjoy talking about politics the way most Muslims do (not as interested in foreign policy but am concerned about other issues.) I haven't attended ISNA in years because the Humzah Yusuf fan club annoys me and I prefer Eddie Veder to Sammy Yusuf. And you know what, most of my friends are the same way. I do happen to wear hijjab, but actually most of my friends don't.

As long as you're happy with your social life it doesn't matter. But if you do feel like something is missing, trust me, there are more Muslims like you, you just have to find them.

Riazat,
I think you make an incorrect assumption that you are a minority in "not being Muslim enough." I consider myself a practicing Muslim woman, but I have a career, don't really enjoy talking about politics the way most Muslims do (not as interested in foreign policy but am concerned about other issues.) I haven't attended ISNA in years because the Humzah Yusuf fan club annoys me and I prefer Eddie Veder to Sammy Yusuf. And you know what, most of my friends are the same way. I do happen to wear hijjab, but actually most of my friends don't.

As long as you're happy with your social life it doesn't matter. But if you do feel like something is missing, trust me, there are more Muslims like you, you just have to find them.

Am I reading Washingtonpost here or have been re-directed to Al Jazeera.

Mohammed Malleck;
Why do you call me a devil? I don't mind the title but just as there is no proof of Allah so is there no proof of the devil. Just because certain books say so and many believe in them does not make me a devils incarnation. The only reason I mind being called a devil is because all things bad and evil are devil related. I don't think I am an evil person nor do I qualify being hell bound; a place certain individuals believe in to force themselves on the "good" track.

I think I am even better than your prophet mohammed. I never killed anyone, never stole, never looted, never had dirty thoughts about under-age girls let alone marry one, never owned saves, never sold them, never had the opportunity or a "right hand possession"... and so on.

Muslims are the intollerent people on the planet. It is there way or the high way. If you are muslim and dont pertake to a certain view then your life is in danger in some Middle eastern countries. In the the US you will be ostracized from a particular group.

When you walk around the malls with your full robes and face being covered you make everyone nervous. I was at the DMV the other and this muslim wouldnt remove her veil. How very terrorist of you. Needless to say, she didnt get her license. Enjoy riding the bus.

My beloved sister has a similar problem, but with a twist. She is an Arab-American and can no longer defend arabs in political discussions because of the treachery of militants. She is just sick of the whole tribal mess.

Since 99.999999% of arab muslims hate to criticize other arab muslims (this is usually out of fear that non-arabs will use the nuanced ideas and arguments between muslims on muslim right and wrong to a nefarious purpose) or even to show a differing opinion on these matters (tribalism is evil), our mother was furious when my sister decided to stop writing about the palestinians after the crimes perpetrated by Hamas on the palestinians of Gaza. Instead she is writing about the murdered women workers of the maquiladores for her university studies.

When muslims can openly discuss the crimes perpetrated by other muslims, when muslims stop rejecting other muslims who are not as hard core religeous, when tribalism is seen as the prosperity destroyer that it has become since the 16th century (if not 500 years earlier) THEN muslims will feel - and truly be - free.

This happens to also be true for folks of my own descent - religious jews - especially in Israel - have the same intolerant "hard-core competition" going.

Hi,
I'm moslim,i read your post for interest and I thank you for your apport

is this article supposed to mean something? is it supposed to give us some insight into muslims, or into non-muslims?

ah, the post-9/11 pundits....

is this article supposed to mean something? is it supposed to give us some insight into muslims, or into non-muslims?

ah, the post-9/11 pundits....

It's because you're so hot. They're just jealous.

Riazat:

Listen to Mohamed Malleck. Is his the worldview you embrace?

I didn't think so.

Live, love, and don't worry about other people's pigeon holes.

Arif,

I respect your choice. But, can't you see that that is not the type of advice that Riazat needs?

Or are you the devil incarnate and you want her happiness destroyed.

It's your pick! It will be then up to her.

But the fold of Islam is still open to you.

Says the Holy Quran: "Bismillah-ir-Rahman-ir Rahim. There is no compulsion in religion. Unto you your religion; unto me mine. Swadaq-Allah-ul-'azeem".

Riazat, my cousin (Muslim female) got married to a Pakistani Muslim in the US, over the years he insisted she quit her good job which she did, then he insisted she wear the hijjab, something Pakistani women don't wear; educated Pakistani women wear/don't wear a "dopatta" a less cumbersome and restrictive cloth. Then he restricted her movements and phone conversations. Soon they were eating only hillal food eventually she drifted away into the Muslim world. This was my first cousin and we were always close. One day she confided in me that she was longing to leave and go back to Pakistan where she would have MORE freedom as a woman. The "Muslim Community" of the US and Europe is a stifeling one. Advice to you is to stay outside as a NME and enjoy life. I took the other road; NMAA (not muslim at all).

Canyon:

That list of yours is a bit redundant, don't you think?

According to the books, it seems tome that everyone is going to hell. Might as well make the ride enjoyable.

Riazat:

You sound wonderful to me. Maybe the issue isn't that you're not muslim enough - maybe it's just that you're YOU first. It's not that you're not measuring up - it's that your true measure isn't being taken.

I am myself bewildered, Riazat. ISNA no longer has the same soul-lifting sense of purpose that the old MSA (Muslim Students' Assosication) had in the 1970's, and when I tell my children (now that I have returned to settle with them in North America) what a sense of solidarity and belonging we used to have in the Community, they look at me with disbelief -- almost as if I am mad.

But, it has not changed all for the worse, daughter, not for the worse Riazat. But change it had to, because the rest of the world also changed, and it is for the better. There is a great Renaissance taking place in the Muslim world. Don't be fooled by the surface animosity coming from outside against the new assertiveness of Muslims nor by the reciprocal 'closing-in' that makes even people like you feel as if they don't quite belong. The new, more assertive, confident Muslim identity is yet to fully emerge. Patches of sharp cultural differences and asymmetries still have a grip on the new emerging common western-Muslim identity and these are themselves at variance with the older, more romantic outlook of Muslims of my generation who laid the first foundation stones of a then-emergent western-Muslim identity in the late-1960's and early-1970's.

You are seven years younger than my daughter who is doing medicine in Canada, has just taken a year off to get married to an Indian-ancestry Muslim boy whose family lives in South Africa where she grew up and went to High School, but will be coming back to Canada next June to complete her medical studies in two years. This is not atypical of today's Muslim youths.

Midway between my experience (I had an arranged marriage) and yours-and-my-daughter's is the caseof my sister-in-law, who is 10 years older than you, had a unique chance, in 1979, to do her graduate studies in Robotics under one of the most prominent (Muslim) Electrical Engineer academic in the world, based at Queen's University in Canada, but declined because her father, himself a medical specialist, ha d considered it socially unacceptable for an unmarried girl to travel to Canada to study. I always reproach my wife that, had her sister taken up the offer of the scholarship, she would today be one of the topmost robotics specialists in the world. (She is now a mechanical engineer supervisor with the New York Transit system)

With all the minor imperfections that the emergent new Western Muslim community might seem to display to your critical eye, Riazat, it is a brave, brave new world in the making, a Renaissance that will rekindle the glory of the years of Muslim technological and scientific achievement such as Samarkand had witnessed in the time of Omar Khayyam, Al Khwarizmi, Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd and so many others.

Canyon Shearer,

please refer to what Concerned wrote and remember that quoting ancient mythology does not make you correct.

Whatever,

I just started frequenting this blog but it appears that you are upset with Concerned because his/her views differ from yours. Did you have anything of value to contribute to this discussion? Was there something Concerned said that you find erroneous? Please elaborate...

Riazat,

You sound pretty modern and perfectly reasonable to me. Just treat folks well and you'll be heads and shoulders above those that find you lacking.

Canyon Shearer said:

"The important question here, are you Muslim 'enough' to go to Heaven?"

No, Mr. Shearer, that was not the question, and everything you wrote, thereafter, was a vain waste of time, which no one will probably ever read. I suppose you didn't get the point, AT ALL.

I got the point; it was pretty simple; you only need half a brain and an ouce of sense to get the point that the author was making, but I suppose Mr. Shearer, and alot of people for that matter, do not have, even, an ounce of sense.

The important question here, are you Muslim 'enough' to go to Heaven?

The Gospel According to Mohammed
(c) 20007

Islam means “Submission to God”, as God has told us, “The Lord lifts up the humble; he casts the wicked to the ground. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”

So the submissive will indeed go to Heaven, as long as they submit to God’s will.

One verse that jumps instantly to mind is, “God is not willing that any should perish,” God’s will includes demonstrating His righteousness, having upright followers, and that justice be done; but the most important from our earthly standpoint is that wrongdoers are rectified to Him, “that all should come to repentance."

Islam is in majority alignment with the Biblical understanding of Heaven and Hell; I think this is illustrated nicely in Surah 43 (Adornments), verses 70-77. Heaven is nice, and Hell is hot and eternal.

Where Christianity and Islam divide is how to get to Heaven; but how to get to Hell is the same in both religions.

Surah 43:74 tells us that “Sinners will be in the punishment of Hell, to dwell there forever.”

Surah 83 speaks of our conscience, the Sijjin, a register fully inscribed that will be open on the Day of Judgment; woe to the sinner, his conscience records his wrongdoings.

God knows the secret thought life, and has appointed a Judgment Day for all mankind. The Koran accepts Moses as a prophet and the Law of the 10 Commandments which were given to him. “God gave Moses the Scripture and the Criteria between right and wrong.” – Al-Baqara 2:53

If all sinners will have their punishment in Hell, it’s in our best interest to find out if we’re sinners.

Answer these questions truthfully and you’ll know:

Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?
If I rape one girl, I’m a rapist, if I murder one person, I’m a murderer. A single lie makes me a liar. The Koran says to, “Invoke the curse of God on those who lie!”
– Al-Imran 3:61
The Bible promises that all liars will have their place in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

Have you ever stolen anything? What does that make you?
Both the Koran and Bible have very strict punishments for thieves. Maida 5:38 tells us, “As to the thief, cut off his or her hand(s).”

Have you always kept the Sabbath?
The Koran demands that you remember God on Friday, leaving off business and travel.
– Assembly 62:9
Whosoever does any work on the Sabbath, he will surely be put to death. This is in order to make sure you worship the Creator above creation.

Have you ever worshipped money, power, science, or possessions above God?
“Let not your riches or your children divert you from the remembrance of God. If any act thus, the loss is their own.”
– Hypocrites 63:9
This you know, no idolater will see the kingdom of God.

Have you committed adultery?
The prophet Jesus said, “Whosoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.”
The Koran is clear, “Do not come near to adultery: for it is a shameful deed and an evil, opening the road to other evils.”
– Israelites 17:32
Clearly “coming near to adultery” is the same as Jesus taught, that a lust-filled glance is seen by God as shameful. Take note that the word for adultery in Arabic is sometimes translated as “Fornication”, sex outside of marriage.

Have you ever used the name of God in Vain?
“Those before them also devised many a blasphemy, but God took their structures from their foundations, and the wrath befell them without them perceiving from whence it came.”
– Bee 16:26
God will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.

If you’re like me, you’ve broken every one of these, and these are only six of the 10 Commandments. The Bible says that we have stored up wrath for ourselves on the Day of Judgment. The Koran is nearly identical, “On the day when heat will be produced out of the fire of Hell, and it will brand your forehead, your flanks, and your back, “This is the treasure which you stored for yourselves: you then taste the treasure you amassed!” – Immunity 9:35

There is a minor difference in the Hell of the Bible and the Hell of the Koran. In the Bible it says that we will beg for a drop of water, but none will come. The Koran says that we will have an overabundance of water, albeit it will be superheated past boiling and we will be forced to drink it, and it will wreak havoc on our insides. Either way, Hell is not somewhere I want to go, nor do I want you to go there.

There is a way to be saved from this punishment we have earned, it is the Injeel which according to the Koran was given to the prophet Jesus. Injeel means, “Good News”, and avoiding such a terrible place as Hell is definitely good news.

Some think that the good news is that we can work our way out of Hell. Both the Koran and the Bible refer to God as a just judge, so lets see how an earthly judge might relate. Imagine you stand before a judge, there are six clear evidences of your guilt, and the judge puts on you a fine that you cannot possibly pay. You offer the judge your good works, you’ve given to charity, you pray unceasingly, you are nice to people, you ask for forgiveness daily, you help little old ladies across the street, and to top it all off, you washed the judges car on the way in to court. The judge tells you, you should do good things, but you've broken the law; he cannot let you go, because despite all of the good you’ve done, justice is due. You cry out in repentance and sorrow, and the judge tells you it’s good that you’re sorry, but there is a fine to be paid, and if you can’t pay it, you will be thrown into prison.

This is the earthly judge, how much more Holy and Just is the Judge of the Universe? Payment is due for your transgression, and the Bible and the Koran clearly state that the fine is the eternal fire of Hell.

But here is the good news, God gave us the gift of a holy son (Maryam 19:19), born of the virgin Maryam, this son’s name was Jesus, and because he was holy, He lived a perfect unblemished life, he was tempted but didn’t sin; in the writing of Moses about the Passover Lamb, the lamb must be without blemish, a male, taken from amongst its brethren (Exodus 12:5). Another name for Jesus is the Lamb of God (Revelation 5:12). Jesus was offered as the sinless sacrifice to take away the sins of the world (Johannes 1:29). Jesus was hung on the cross outside of Jerusalem on Calvary hill, a hill not two miles from where Ibrahim offered his son as a sacrifice 1700 years prior. Jesus died in our stead, he paid our fine in his own life’s blood. The wrath of God was poured out upon him and it pleased God to do it. Jesus went through Hell so we wouldn’t have to, in an infinite showing of love God sacrificed Jesus so that we can be forgiven, he was the propitiation for our sins.

The Koran says that our sins are a stain on the heart, (Al-Mutaffifin 83:14) and Maryam 19:60 says that if you’ll repent and believe, then you will see Heaven. Mohammed was quoting the prophet Jesus when he said, "Repent and believe the Gospel", in other words, repent and believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, the propitiation for your sins. Once you have done this, your sins will be forgiven, your stained heart will be replaced with a new heart (Ezekiel 11:19), and you will be born again into the family of God.

If any man does this, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. – 2 Corinthians 5:17

I can relate to this. I've been accused often enough throughout my life of not being 'Jewish enough', either by people who wanted to promote outdated stereotypes or by rabbis who were focused on numbers in attendance. As I'm now a Pagan that's neither really here nor there today, but it did at the time make me feel somehow as if I was on the outside looking in on where I was supposed to be made to feel most comfortable.

You are a good person. That's good enough for me.

Not to worry! I'm not Atheist enough myself, but I can still be a secular humanist. I suspect you will realize soon that you have outgrown the need to practise ancient tribal religions, and that being a human is enough.

For Concerned only,

BORINGLY predictable and stupid! ONLY you could find those tired "talking points" of any value, and they were lame the first time I had to scroll by them...let alone the thousandth!

All they are is proof of your own lack of self-esteem manifested in the egocentric insitence that you have ANYTHING of value to "contribute", besides theft of bandwith, and the vain search for acknowledgement of ANY kind.

Well, I've acknowledged you, please, please, PLEASE get a blog of your own!

and trust me! they are not dying to call you sister either.

Hurrah for you that you are not good enough. You are a good, decent person. Is that not good enough?

For Riazat only,

At your next function, turn the discussion to the flaws in the founders and foundations of the major religions.

Talking points:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus. Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.
And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic Shiite terror theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God."

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments/lies and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.