Your words are beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

Blazek,

I'm am happy for you for having been able to experience such meaningful friendships and for the fact that you find God's love in these moments. However, I find your writing shallow and lacking in reflection on the broader implications of your experience.

Christ didn't tell us to love our friends and those who are like us. He told us to love our enemies and stand up for the down trodden. That you found value in the relationship with your comrades is admirable, but how did this impact upon the view that you had/have of those who were your enemies? How does your affinity with a comrade in the army who comes from a very different background from you impact on how you see an "enemy" from a different background? How does the love you felt for those close to you extend out to those who you were supposed to be fighting? What impact does your experience have on your thinking about the morality of war and the complexity of conflict?

These are much more interesting issues than your tale of feeling good with your friends. I don't want to take away from you what you have, but where has your experience taken you?

Blazek,

I'm am happy for you for having been able to experience such meaningful friendships and for the fact that you find God's love in these moments. However, I find your writing shallow and lacking in reflection on the broader implications of your experience.

Christ didn't tell us to love our friends and those who are like us. He told us to love our enemies and stand up for the down trodden. That you found value in the relationship with your comrades is admirable, but how did this impact upon the view that you had/have of those who were your enemies? How does your affinity with a comrade in the army who comes from a very different background from you impact on how you see an "enemy" from a different background? How does the love you felt for those close to you extend out to those who you were supposed to be fighting? What impact does your experience have on your thinking about the morality of war and the complexity of conflict?

These are much more interesting issues than your tale of feeling good with your friends. I don't want to take away from you what you have, but where has your experience taken you?

Quite true. Such conflicting situations arise in everyman's day t day work. eg you may be very friendly with a colleague but as his superior you need to take disciplinary action against him as company rules dictate. This dilemna forces a man to choose which one of his duties is superior to the others - one as a friend or one towards your employer etc etc
I think the Hindus have a better understanding to this: Lord Krishna says "Do your KARMA (duty) and never aspire for 'returns' (profits)"

The Karma theory can guide you in difficult situations in life.

Let God bless the coffee of our holy warriors who defend us from the infidels in which countries happened to be the oil.
Let He grant them strength so we can liberate the Tomb in the Holy Land.
Oops the last sentence is probably for another age, but all the rest is just right, isn't it!?

I still can't wrap my mind around how some people can believe in 3 thousand year old campfire stories, then deny sciences. hell, if you don't believe in evolution don't get a flu shot that is developed by evolutionary theory. Pastafarians are every bit as credible.

"God’s love and care is reflected for me in the way service members watch out for each other in this fashion too. Most seriously, they don’t just guard equipment. They provide life-saving physical protection for their shipmates, aircrew mates and platoon mates. Soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen and coastguardsmen can count on each other, even when called upon to risk their lives. Their availability for service in the face of the possibility of total self-sacrifice speaks most strongly to me of God’s love. In this generosity, Christians can recognize a reflection of the self-giving love of Jesus Christ."

Wow. A True George W. Bush Christian!

I'll bet Jesus is so proud of his servants, he could just s__t.

Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com

Millions are now killed, homeless in Iraq, and fled into refugee status. A nation, reduced to rubble, that was no threat or enemy. This is what Jesus would do?

Your love for one another is admirable and appropriate. But how does one reconcile the deaths of ??? million Iraqis?--millions now homeless in Iraq and est. 2 1/2 million have crossed over into refugee status of hopelessness. A land not ours has been reduced to rubble and a society shattered. For what?
Iraq was not an enemy nor a threat. Is now! thanks to this war without end that is predicated upon lies and minipulation of our own leaders. Why are we there? Why were we in Vietnam? Where next? To see Jesus in all of this violence and absurdity is a stretch theology should not even attempt. All at the expense of 2 1/2 trillion dollars that could have been invested in LIFE and not death. IMO, john steinbruck

dear people,

I find it incredible that anyone proclaiming themselves to be a of the catholic church is listened to at all. How dare they smugly pontificate on God, religion, mercy or morality. The catholic church has been responsible for more terror, suffering, blood, genocide, torture, murder sickness and misery than the Third Reich.

I find it pathetic that we treat these repressed, mentally-deranged, robed-lunatics with anything other than the pity we reserve for schizophrenics talking to themselves on a subway.

The writer of this article apparently has never read the old testament where GOD himself stood by Isreal and helped them defeat their enemies. The writer by joining religion to this war has also made it a crusade, Christianity against Islam. this writer must bear the blame for what will come to pass.

Blazek is destined for Hell...along with all the other murderers and human trash that try to cloak themselves in Christianity. I have a WW2 German canteen...under the cap in German are the words "God is on our side" ...just as false for them as us.

Insane...there is no way that a true Christian can be involved in any way with the military. Can anyone imagine Jesus kicking in doors or shooting people? Can you imagine Jesus calling in air strikes on a sleeping town? If so, you are out of your mind. Read your Bible....if anyone thinks they can reconcile the teachings of Jesus with the most efficient killing machine on Earth, you are in for a rude awakening. "Get thee behind me, I never knew you" JC

"Jesuitical" is the term that best applies to a line of apologetics that seeks to justify raw expeditionary imperialism and civil carnage as God's work. Jesus's Biblical teachings and military service on behalf of Bush in Iraq are utterly incompatible. Whom would Jesus torture? Whom would Jesus bomb with white phosphorus or 500-pounders or fragmentation weapons? Would Jesus lie about the WMDs? How many Iraqi children and mothers would Jesus shoot down at checkpoints? How obvious can this be?

William Blazek is giving justification for this immoral and illegal war and links the bondage of comradeship to God. Communism has the same bondage and feeling, and perhaps the same cup of coffee, but they never link it to God. The Japanese soldiers, during the 2nd world war, raped the “comfort” ladies in group and they felt the same comradeship without linking to God and they got more gratification than a cup of coffee.

William Blazek has sold his soul to Satan and disguises it as God’s messenger.

America has framed Iraq, invaded and occupied just to steal the oil. There are many dictators in the world such as Pakistan and Cuba and our government is not attacking these 2 countries.

God is about forgiveness, mercy, grace, kindness and other goodies. Going to war to steal oil from another country is not God’s vitreous.

200 years ago, there were many reports of Christians bought and tortured the black slaves and justified their actions. William Blazek is doing exactly what Christians had done 200 years ago, stealing the natural resources of another country and disguises it as fighting terrorism. This is not about Christianity. This is about human survival.

William Blazek is giving justification for this immoral and illegal war in Iraq and links the bondage of comradeship to God.

William Blazek has sold his soul to Satan and disguises it as God’s messenger.

America has framed Iraq, invaded and occupied just to steal the oil. There are many dictators in the world such as Pakistan and Cuba and our government has done nothing to stop these 2 dictators.

God is about forgiveness, mercy, grace, kindness and other goodies. Going to war to steal oil from another country is not God’s desires.

200 years ago, there were many reports of Christians bought and tortured the black slaves and justified their actions in England and America. William Blazek is doing exactly what Christians had done 200 years ago, stealing the natural resources of another country and disguises it as fighting terrorism.

I'd like to know your thoughts on what we can do to help our soldiers coming home from Iraq. More soldiers have died from suicide in the last 2 years, than those who have died in Iraq.

Today, a group of us sent packages to the soldiers and wrote letters. I couldn't help thinking that what they really need is our commitment to their adjustment back home, including mental health treatment. Even more, we need to bring this war to and end, and bring them home.

1) Not all Christians are fundamentalists, and believe me, it makes a difference. I'm a secular Catholic (phrase courtesy of an episode of CSI) and an American. As such, I want to be left alone to experience the mysteries and nuances of life in a way that feels right to me. I don't want a Christan fundamentalist (or Islamic, Jewish, or atheistic)getting in my face and telling me what prism of belief systems I should be using to experience the world around me. If Mr. Blazek experiences the presence of the divine while sharing coffee with his comrades (the whole "where two or three are gathered" thing from the Bible), then who is anyone here to tell him that he's wrong, delusional, correct, or otherwise? He shared unique experiences with this post, experiences that no one else is in a position to qualify.

2) The Roman Catholic Church--nor any other Christian leadership--did not pick up the red line to the White House and demand that President Bush send American troops to battle. Most American Christian soldiers who would never otherwise kill are in a morally ambiguous place when it comes to war. Nonetheless, I thank them all for their willingness to stand in the gray area, because they are also standing in between us and harm's way.

What a bunch of Hoooooey. Your nothing but a propagandist for the jingoistic thugs in power.
Gawd is on your side Wooop de dooo Praise the Lord an Pass the Amunition. What a sorry sap you are for thinking we're buying into this compassionate killer diatribe.
You're the same fundamentalist selling this crap to the tribal warfares in Africa - get the guns and power chop off arms and legs in the name of gaud sheeeeeeeeesh. YOU don't have claim to any side chap. Your crusade spew is contaminating the soil of America. Go peddle you priestcraft in Iraq or Saudi Arabia.
Oh and i love your campaign to sign up and get pledges from Middle and High School kids - Amen brother = you go gawd. Get them pre-suiciders in the uniform - give them guns and items to kill with to assuage their mental anguish.
You, Blazek are nothing but a TOOL of the oligarch plutocracy pushing you agenda down the throats of the Xian Reich! How easy does it get =
Folks you gotta know there no gawd on someone's side and this is nothing but a wolf in sheeps cloth.
Blazek you make me sick an nauseaus~!

William Crain
Viet Nam drafted Combat Veteran WIA '67 - '68
Billings Peace Seeker, member

Yeah, but what about LOVE THINE ENEMY???

Yeah, but what about LOVE THINE ENEMY???

Justifying anything in this world, if you are a Christian, is very simple. All you have to do is adopt the Ten Commandments, that masterpiece of ambiguity that can be interpreted in any way to justify whatever acts you want to do.

As is well documented through the ages, the experience of camraderie is seldon greater than in war. Sadly, his experiences in religious community will most likely never be as intense and I would not want to predict how long he can be sustained therein. As a former priest and anti-war activist, I would hope for a greater sense of doubt and ambiguity about this whole endeavor in which chaplains bless the real, if small, acts of kindness and do not see what most of the rest of the rest of his own religious leders and the world sees -- that this was an illegal, immoral, ill conceived war in which the best sentiments of patriotism, fraternity, and sacrifice have been corrupted by our leaders into this neo-crusade mentality that undermines the very Gospel that he serves.

As is well documented through the ages, the experience of camraderie is seldon greater than in war. Sadly, his experiences in religious community will most likely never be as intense and I would not want to predict how long he can be sustained therein. As a former priest and anti-war activist, I would hope for a greater sense of doubt and ambiguity about this whole endeavor in which chaplains bless the real, if small, acts of kindness and do not see what most of the rest of the rest of his own religious leders and the world sees -- that this was an illegal, immoral, ill conceived war in which the best sentiments of patriotism, fraternity, and sacrifice have been corrupted by our leaders into this neo-crusade mentality that undermines the very Gospel that he serves.

Religious propaganda is still propaganda.

http://www.impeachbush.org

Richard:
Example:
"13 You shall not murder."
Well,
the Lutheran bible says: "You shall not kill".

The Lutheran bible is a translation of the Greek translation of the Aramaic text. It seems rather pointless to quibble over differences in translation of a document which is a translation of a document which had been edited during the previous few centuries.

When I was last in Israel, I asked a friend there how she would translate that commandment. Her response was "You shall not murder." She is an Israeli and is also a native-English speaker having been raised in the UK. I consider her answer more authoritative than Luther's.

Mike

WILL JONES,

Is that Thomas Jefferson?

"What a conspiracy this, between Church and State!"
SAXONS, CONSTITUTIONS, AND A CASE OF PIOUS FRAUD
To Major John Cartwright
Monticello, June 5, 1824

To Samuel Kercheval
Monticello, January 19, 1810

SIR, -- Yours of the 7th instant has been duly received, with the pamphlet inclosed, for which I return you my thanks. Nothing can be more exactly and seriously true than what is there stated; that but a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandising their oppressors in Church and State; that the purest system of morals ever before preached to man, has been adulterated and sophisticated by artificial constructions, into a mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves; that rational men not being able to swallow their impious heresies, in order to force them down their throats, they raise the hue and cry of infidelity, while themselves are the greatest obstacles to the advancement of the real doctrines of Jesus, and do in fact constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Novus Ordo Seclorem: The New SECULAR Order
Annuit Coeptis: Divine Providence Blesses Our Endeavors...and each Sovereign Individual has the right to his or her own relationship Therewith.

Faction is the bane of Liberty.

Example:
"13 You shall not murder."

Well,
the Lutheran bible says: "You shall not kill".

So what now?!

That document, the Bible, is in itself so ambivalent, violent, non-violent, it appears to me of no use at all.

It's created by man, all kinds of different individuals, with all kinds views.

You don't want to steer a modern society with that map. It just leads you to nowhere.

Ethics is built into mankind and yes, it's a poor implementation, at least when it's turned into reality. But besides that, no Bible is needed.

Steve,

One question that I'm ABSOLUTELY sure you'll have an ABSOLUTE answer to: If my grandfather loved God and kept his commandments, but my father rejected God and worshipped another God, would God love me steadfastly because I'm within a thousand generations of my grandfather, or would God punish me because I'm within four generations of my father?

I assume you know the TRUE answer to this. Otherwise you can't possibly be moral.

Steve,

You write:

"Remove all moral absolutes and right and wrong, bravery and cowardice, are just a matter of opinion."

I disagree. Consider this: Remove all perceptual absolutes and pain and pleasure, repulsion and desire, are just a matter of opinion. Do you agree with this? Do you think that the (near) unanimity of mankind's assessment of what is pleasurable and what is painful is somekind of astounding coincidence? Perhaps you think that God decreed that which shall be painful and that which shall be pleasurable, and we obey Him in the face of stimuli according to His word.

Alternatively, maybe you think that it is human nature to perceive pain in response to cuts, burns, blows, etc, and to try to avoid them. If you do, then your thinking about perception is similar to my thinking about morality. It is human nature to have a moral compass. Personally, I think it is based on two ingredients: the direct perceptual awareness of our own pain and pleasure, and the "transcendent" awareness that others are just like we are. I for one would be very nervous about being around a religious person who had no moral compass - who only refrained from violence because of some prohibition written in some book. Especially when the books themselves are so self-contradictory and in fact contain the most senseless violence I have ever seen in print.

P.S. I keep hearing how morality comes from the ten commandments. First of all, morality existed long before the ten commandments, as evidenced in much older and in my estimation much more reasonable moral/legal frameworks such as the Code of Hammurabi. Here are the ten commandments. Half of them are abominable. Of course, there's a slightly different set of the ten commandments in Deuteronomy. Makes me wonder which is morally absolute.

Exodus 20:2–17

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 you shall have no other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

8 Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy.

9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

12 Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 You shall not murder.

14 You shall not commit adultery.

15 You shall not steal.

16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Steve: I believe in none of those things. and you are falling for a logical fallacy. I have a degree in philosophy, and could care less what Sartre thinks the implications of atheism are. If there is no god, the moral imperatives of atheists are as good as it gets. If there is no god, the absolutes of the believers are fraudulent, whether they make them "dependable" or not. You cannot bootstrap back from the implications of the absence of god to god's existence. philosophers gave up logical proofs of gods existence centuries ago, and Kant, among others, posited that man has no hope of knowing anything terribly absolute. you believe what you believe for whatever reason, and act accordingly. you cannot prove that a believer will behave more dependably in a foxhole than an atheist without begging the question of whether his beliefs are accurate, unless you just want folks whose beliefs are convenient at the moment because they happen to cause behavior that is useful at the time, as you see it.

JoeT,

Not necessarily. Read up on what Sartre said about the implications of the absence of God. He was a true atheist, and he was moral and brave. But unlike todays atheists he followed the logic of his argument all the way to the bitter end. Remove God and you remove all moral absolutes. Remove all moral absolutes and right and wrong, bravery and cowardice, are just a matter of opinion. Someone who believes this way could be trusted but why would I take my chance of his opinion changing when I needed him most.

How do you guys deal with the lack of free will issue? Doesn't Big Bang Billiards cause some concern? It doesn't to believers.

Also, do atheists believe in ghosts or aliens from space, clairvoyance, telepathy, reincarnation, etc.?

Incredible life-giving, thoughtful, touching and brutally realistic but prayerful account of one individual who - probably unbeknownst to him - has touched countless lives - especially in recent years as he continues to be a vessel of God's outpouring of love and serenity. What a gift to integrate his experiences of the military, priesthood and preparation, and teaching >>> into his and our daily lives ... about something as simple as service, fellowship, and a cup of coffee.

Incredible life-giving, thoughtful, touching and brutally realistic but prayerful account of one individual who - probably unbeknownst to him - has touched countless lives - especially in recent years as he continues to be a vessel of God's outpouring of love and serenity. What a gift to integrate his experiences of the military, priesthood and preparation, and teaching >>> into his and our daily lives ... about something as simple as service, fellowship, and a cup of coffee.

What an irrelevant article and posts. Hasn't this thread died out yet? Yawwwwwn!

I am a veteran and an atheist, and I am terrified by the apparent takeover of our military (and government) by evangelicals. I consider them no differently than radical Muslims. Imagine what it would be like if fundamentalist Muslims were infiltrating the academies and upper echelons of the military to this extent.

Why can't these Christians follow their own beliefs without requiring me and everyone else who doesn't believe to follow them? Leave us, our country, and our Constitution alone. Move to South Carolina and secede, then you can run your own country however you want.

Lovely piece.

I remember spending a few days at a Benedictine abbey and there was something about sharing tea i the gueshouse in the early morning that was almost sacramental. It was just doing things together with people. When it happens, it's magical.

Lovely piece.

I remember spending a few days at a Benedictine abbey and there was something about sharing tea i the gueshouse in the early morning that was almost sacramental. It was just doing things together with people. When it happens, it's magical.

Steve, have you ever serves in the military?

Steve: so atheists are cowards and moral relativists? only a believer can exhibit bravery in defense of his country (why not, it may be the highest thing he believes in, since God isn't on the list)? and last time I checked, since there is no religious test for service, there are just as many atheists in foxholes as there are on the highways. I'm really sorry you wouldn't trust me to fight for your right to be a self-righteous bigot.

There are few atheists in foxholes. If one were beside me I'd hesitate to trust him, good and bad, cowardice and bravery, being relative and all.

First of all to Samuel, I too spent some time in Conn Barracks many years ago.. As a veteran of 21 years I'm glad I spent my time in the service when I did. When we had respect for one another regardless of ones religious affiliation or none at all. When we were sworn to uphold the Constitution and we took it seriously. I read more and more where this nonsense of if you are not the right kind of christian than you go nowhere in the ranks. I have nothing but contempt for religious fanatics that use their beliefs as a weapon. Are they so weak in their own faith that they can't be around others that don't believe as they do. Everyone must believe a certain way or your not part of the "club". Our politicians need to make sure our service men and women are protected from this kind of harassment but then again our politicians are afraid of everything and can't get anything done. Those officers that are trying to use their christainity as a coercive tool to force their belies on others should be identified and ran out of the military. Did they not swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States?

The Viet Nam war was no different. We tried to protect our men any way we could. For me it was particularly poignant when my Platoon Sgt. called me when (he returned) to tell me that the Lieutenant who took over my platoon wanted to gain the support of the men, so he gave them a party. That night when they were all drunk, sappers came through their lines and threw charges everywhere. As they escaped they through grenades and charges at my former men injuring many of them. My Platoon Sgt and I had a perfect record when we were there. It was "tough love" that got us all through until this incident.

The Viet Nam war was no different. We tried to protect our men any way we could. For me it was particularly poignant when my Platoon Sgt. called me when (he returned) to tell me that the Lieutenant who took over my platoon wanted to gain the support of the men, so he gave them a party. That night when they were all drunk, sappers came through their lines and threw charges everywhere. As they escaped they through grenades and charges at my former men injuring many of them. My Platoon Sgt and I had a perfect record when we were there. It was "tough love" that got us all through until this incident.

Chris: you have made my 11/11 @ 8:12 post point (though much more eloquently). People of faith see Jesus and Mary in rust stained highway underpasses, potato chips, grilled cheese sandwiches, and trees that get spared by the California wildfires. the rest of us are apparently blind. and no, Mike, atheists are not all unpatriotic leftist bigots who hate America, any more than all fundamentalists are flag waving hypocrites who think any real American knows torture is the way to win the war on terror. I love America, every male relative older than me served, and I would have been in Vietnam if I were a year older. But the America I love doesn't need a flag burning amendment to the Constitution (it would demean the flag), or any other amendment for that matter (two others the fundies want come to mind). And I don't need to be told that I need God to get a cup of coffee for someone who needs one.

Usama,

Obviously you suffer from the Three B's, i.e. you were Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam. Please address the failings and flaws in your warmongering religion before criticizing anyone else.

A synopsis:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic Shiite terror theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Just to get it out of the way, I am an atheist.

This is how I read William Blazek's essay: Mr. Blazek, through his commitment to ideals of duty to country and protection of freedom, found himself in a battlefield situation where the provoundly significant and meaningful events of death and survival were the order of the day. It's perfectly natural to bond with one's comerades to a depth that is perhaps impossible under normal, i.e. more trivial and benign, circumstances. I think that the ability to sense a profound significance in the events of our lives and forge deep, permanent connections to our fellow beings is the singular universal desire of the whole human race.

But of course, I don't see God in it. The "seeing" of God in these experiences is really the act of interpreting what actually happened (meaning, sharing, bonding) within the context of a preexisting dogmatic belief structure. To me, that actually corrupts and pollutes the experinece since it is no longer seen for what it is. Instead, it is exploited in the service of superstition. I'm not saying that religion is all bad. (I see religion as an archaic mechanism for understanding human nature and the world around us.) If religious teachings can shed light on experience that's great. But on the whole the track record is that actions taken in the name of religion is nightmarish. (By the way, niether Stalin, Mao nor Lenin acted in the name of atheism. They acted ostensibly in the service of the communist utopian vision. In a sense, that vision was their God. Atheism, if it has a creed, is skepticism, i.e. the requirement for all claims to be substantiated by objective, scientifically credible evidence. Communism fails utterly.) Anyway, that was a digression.

I implore everyone to PAY ATTENTION to WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS and try to separate it from WHAT YOU MAKE IT MEAN. Mr. Blazek describes many beautiful things that actually happened (I won't get into the underlying issue of war), but he ultimately conflates them with his EXPLANATION of those things. He, like most religious people, is LEADING with his EXPLANATION. This casts experience into the role of simply CONFIRMING the prior belief. (Please, don't anyone think I am saying that religious belief is actually confirmed by experience. Instead, it is in the nature of religious belief that ANY experience can be interpreted in a manner that confirms the belief, e.g. if it's good it's God's blessing; if it's bad it's a test, and in the bigger unknowable God's plan it's good, too.)

Dear Bill, You don't know me, but I am a college friend of your mom's. We keep tabs on what's going on in our childrens' lives at least once a year. You may have heard of the famous "goofy gabbers" club from St. John's High School. Well Carol and I were also members of that together. It is lovely to see your writings being published. We pray for you everyday and for your journey into the priesthood. God bless you always and know that you are really doing God's work in every way. Your wonderful parents are so proud of you, what I would call a chip off the old block. In Christ's love, LaVerne Backes

Dear Bill, You don't know me, but I am a college friend of your mom's. We keep tabs on what's going on in our childrens' lives at least once a year. You may have heard of the famous "goofy gabbers" club from St. John's High School. Well Carol and I were also members of that together. It is lovely to see your writings being published. We pray for you everyday and for your journey into the priesthood. God bless you always and know that you are really doing God's work in every way. Your wonderful parents are so proud of you, what I would call a chip off the old block. In Christ's love, LaVerne Backes

I cant tell you how much I enjoyed the artical Sean sent me. It's so good that your friendship is so enduring.
Kathy & Sean are blessed with great friends.
Thank you,
Tom Scally

Except Jesus (as) wasn't a soldier for a world empire occupying and interfering in foreign lands to satisfy corporate greed and thirst for world domination. You gave a scruffy GI Joe some love. But what about the principle of your mission?

Save the platitudes for when you are just a regular person helping another regular person. You were on a mission to kill people so your leaders could get access to 100s of billions in Kuwaiti wealth and a permanent strategic foothold in the Arabian Pennisular like empires have tried to do for eons.

Repent to God for the evils which you have engaged in. The first Persian Gulf War brought about the '90s embargoes and bombings on Iraq which brought 100s of 1000s of deaths in Iraq, including innocent babies. Is God really going to look flavorably on your slight kindness to another soldier and overlook the deaths of 100s of 1000s of people who were actually being oppressed by a dictator which America helped bring to power in the first place?

Except Jesus (as) wasn't a soldier for a world empire occupying and interfering in foreign lands to satisfy corporate greed and thirst for world domination. You gave a scruffy GI Joe some love. But what about the principle of your mission?

Save the platitudes for when you are just a regular person helping another regular person. You were on a mission to kill people so your leaders could get access to 100s of billions in Kuwaiti wealth and a permanent strategic foothold in the Arabian Pennisular like empires have tried to do for eons.

Repent to God for the evils which you have engaged in. The first Persian Gulf War brought about the '90s embargoes and bombings on Iraq which brought 100s of 1000s of deaths in Iraq, including innocent babies. Is God really going to look flavorably on your slight kindness to another soldier and overlook the deaths of 100s of 1000s of people who were actually being oppressed by a dictator which America helped bring to power in the first place?

I too experienced similar instances of soldiers' concern and care for one another in two tours of duty in Vietnam and thirty years of service in the 82d Airborne Division, the 1st Cavalry Division, and the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, among others. As a military historian, I have vicariously experienced this concern among soldiers of all times and all faiths. Alexander's soldiers, Caesar's, Napoleon's, Dayan's, even the soldiers of the Red Army and the Third Reich in World War II had the same love for their comrades and expressed it in similar ways.

To paraphrase Churchill -- he was cautioning the British not to claim too much credit for themselves in the Battle of the Bulge -- we must take care in examining these sentiments not to claim them only for Christian soldiers of the cross -- other soldiers, with far different beliefs, have the same human needs and fill them in similar ways.

The reaction to this article is a fine demonstration of the intolerant hatred of the American left.

We get it. You hate Christians, you hate the armed services and you hate America. All this demonstrates is that you are a bunch of unpatriotic bigots. Good for you.

Crusader,

Like you boyz, dontya!

William Blazek sadly reveals the sentimentality mistaken as 'religious'. A sunset, the fact that someone smiles at you, perhaps getting a parking space in the mall when you're pressed for time. These become 'signs' to the believer. Small 'favors' the Catholics would say.

Unfortunately, if the believer is so moved and so attentive to Godliness in life as emotional neediness, much of reality in all its harshness, venality, and violence go unnoticed and unaddressed. It is this immaturity to face life as it is and to face themselves as they are that makes religion and the religious a target of ridicule for those who cannot in honesty
agree with the perceptions and conclusions they offer.

Thank you for sharing your insightful article. Hospitality (serving your brother in need) in the Middle East is an art. As St. Martin was to give half his robe to a begger and dream of Christ wearing the robe, I can immagine that Jesus is drinking a cup of coffee You gave to another in heaven. Anthony, ofm

Thank you for sharing your insightful article. Hospitality (serving your brother in need) in the Middle East is an art. As St. Martin was to give half his robe to a begger and dream of Christ wearing the robe, I can immagine that Jesus is drinking a cup of joe You gave another in heaven. Anthony, ofm

Thank you for sharing your insightful article. Hospitality (serving your brother in need) in the Middle East is an art. As St. Martin was to give half his robe to a begger and dream of Christ wearing the roob, I can immagine that Jesus is drinking a cup of joe with You. Anthony, ofm

You complain people who don't fall in synch with Bush, how it's not 'supporting the troops' to oppose the war.

How bout living with a blue-star Pagan mother who got *no* support from the Corps cause she was supposed to hold down the lives of *all* five of her kids ...but was Pagan?

Gods.

Do you even *know?*

Captain?

Though, you wanna talk about bitterness...

Yeah, lets talk about those who served with honor and got general discharge cause they didn't pass 'religious tests'

Let's talk about even decorated Pagan vets who couldn't be buried for *years* cause apparently the freedoms they were supposed to be fighting for apparently, by Presidential unaccountable order, didn't apply to them.

Can you imagine what it's like to have a Marine relative die for thier country, yet not be able to be recognized as a Pagan by their country?

Then have this dude talk about a cup of coffee being Jesus?

Where was your Jesus the ten *years* Christians made Pagan families *suffer* about a proper burial, Marine?

How bout it?

Where's your coffee *then?*

Gods. You think it's divine intervention when people aren't complete *@&#&@^#@s to each other.

Yah, yah, you said it.

Now, read.

Sounds like there's a lot of bitterness there, but you overstep your bounds when you start questioning my loyalty to my Marines, faith & politics be damned.

Oh, and, btw, it's not like there's *this* many Pagans in America, though there's a whole lot more than most will admit, ...we're still more often heard *about* than *from,* and, well, for every ten thousand Christians willing to vote for torture-if-they-don't-have-to-think, there's prolly a good gaggle of us ready to say, 'This is messed-up, right here.'

Maybe they can say that being against torture is against the 'Fundie Christian Heritage of America retroactively founded by Jonathan Edwards (no relation) in 1820!

My Dah was a Marine, btw, Captain. Would have been a Marine myself, if they were letting girls fly at the time.

But, hey.

And I swear to theGods, Captain, If I could move, instead of being on the Internet all these days, I'd be over there. Not cause I have any faith in the 'faith-based policy,* but cause *I don't trust you Christians with guns, never mind in someone else's country. *

I'm not afraid to fight. Gods know I've fought.

I'm not there. I can't be there.

But 'Our Troops' include 'Our Pagan Troops.'

*You* I charge with *having their backs.*

And if I know our boys, they'll have yours.

Capiche?

Anyway, Captain Justin. Sorry for the digression, ...see what I gotta wade through if I open my mouth?

Point is:

It's one thing to say 'I found 'God' was in the cups of coffee shared by comrades in Bush's wars.

I'll also say, I'm a Pagan, you'll find no dry cups in *my* house, war or peace. I don't care if I hate your philosophy to the core, it will *not* make a poor hostess of me.

This is what it means to be a Pagan, and also, oddly enough, what it means to be one of the many tribes of the Middle-East that we don't understand so well.

Christians think the story of Sodom And Gommorah is some thing against gay people existing: it's really about Lot knowing, in the society of his time, that it would be great dishonor his daughters couldn't live down anyway, if he violated guest-right to turn those who sought refuge with him over to a mob. It's not about sex, it's about guest-right, like in Greece or Ireland or many more familiar places.

That's not 'Jesus,' that's *humans,* Captain.

If it *takes* Jesus for some humans to figure out how to share a fire and a cup of hot drink, well, who am I to argue, but, seriously.

It's not that hard, is it, Captain? These circumstances this priest talks about as 'extra-special,' ... Are they?

I'll tell you, No. they aren't.

Just part of the way home for all of us.

We're humans.

This is what we're like. Whatever some people lead us to.

I am *revolted* by the Religious Right. I am a very faithful Pagan.

I've also got some credentials that say if a Catholic needs me to hear their confession, I will do it as sincerely as I can.
Much like a military chaplain, really.

Just without the military part.

My words to JJ were about his deal.

As for the Chaplain, here, well... he thinks it's special 'God' is in a cup of coffee if people are sufficiently-stressed-out.

I don't get why it's a big deal, really. I been under seige in America, and, senses get sharp, but 'God,' (well, Goddess) was in that coffee in the first place.

Not like I never spent a long night waiting for some Christians to sober up and act on their righteous threats.

Padre here talks about being in the desert with only an army behind him in the face of an army ready to surrender cause they hadn't been paid in months...

Try having a break-action .410 between yourself and a whole lot of Fundie gun enthusiasts that are told you and everyone you love are Satanic agents.

Yeah, Pagans need sleep, too.

(Guess that's Texas.ess who was governor at the time.)

Know what that's like, Marine? Captain?

Forget about in Iraq, ...Pagan troops in Iraq are scared of their *fellows,* never mind hostiles.

What they come home to?

Forget 'support our troops.'

*You* support *our* troops.

Over there, and over here.

Gu

" Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:

"Pagans and Wiccans are making many comments but have they served in the military thereby making their comments experienced observations and useful critiques ??? Without this experience, their "voodoo" falls on deaf ears."

Actually, Concerned, as a matter of fact, a full half of the Pagan men (and, come to think of it, more than a couple of the transwomen) in my tribes were in fact vets. This is how I know. (Well, apart from previous lifetimes, but I'm not willing to cite those as sources.)

But don't believe me, if you need it firsthand.... Go ahead and ask a currently-serving Pagan or Heathen: I was just reading an article by someone recently redeployed this morning on witchvox.com.

Or did you think all the fuss about our war dead being denied decent burials didn't involve actual dead people or something?

Gods. What you want, before you let us live, personal acquaintance with a bloody shirt?

"I remember you from a post discussion a long while ago, and since my email/initials are JJ..., I'm assuming you're talking to me."

Bad assumption, Marine.

"JJ" is one of our regular posters, here, "Jacob Josevz' ... talks a lot about photons and Romney and stuff, uses capslocks a lot, ? That guy.

I'll read what you have to say, but, no, I was talking to a specific guy in ways meant to talk to ...his particular worldview. Sorry bout the coincidence.

Paganplace,

I remember you from a post discussion a long while ago, and since my email/initials are JJ..., I'm assuming you're talking to me. If I remember correctly- and I may not- you were the lone witchette always trying to connect different groups. Though I may disagree with some of your opinions, know that I always respect someone who takes that position.

If I hear you correctly, your main point is that humans are decent folk and it's foolish and narrowminded to say that anything good has to come from the Christian God. It's also a frustrating point to argue with a Christian because they just fall upon that single belief and tune out anything contrary.

To build upon that, you also said, "You kind of worship through relativity, ..remember this axiom: There are no privileged reference points."

Sadly, I have to disagree with that quote on two levels. First, everyone's got biases, and the thicker the lenses, the less truth they're going to see. (I'll alway keep an open mind and listen to what someone says, but I do believe in absolutes- that's one of my biases.)

Secondly, if "one" has little/no knowledge of something, one has little/nothing on which to base his/her opinion of it. One's reference point has limited value on that topic. (Another bias- I don't get offended on a personal level when those outside the military throw insults or think ridiculous things at us. I try to clarify, because they do vote and they're human beings, but it doesn't hurt my feelings. After all, what do they know?! I'm not saying you're one of them Paganplace)

The experiences in my life have led me to the conclusions I hold in my heart- my parents' divorce, my marriage, friendships, deployments, and faith throughout them all. That's my reference point and my bias. In my time I've known man, and I've known Christ. I have little trust in anything solely made by man because I've seen it fall apart. So I trust the things I value to God and I haven't been disappointed yet. I'd go on, but I'm sure you're about to choke on my little story as it is.

Getting back to reference points, since my main interaction with any pagan has been with you Paganplace, my reference point concerning Wiccans is pretty hazy. Though I think you're way off base, I put little value in my own opinion. It's based on nothing solid, only a vague feeling of "I know what I've got works, so something different must be wrong." I've seen that argument fall apart too many times, so I don't trust my own narrowminded instinct. I try not to condemn that which I don't know. But that doesn't stop me from sharing what I do know does work!

I've got plenty more on my mind, but I'll end with this- I was sung to tonight, actually. We had a little fellowship group over and I played guitar as we sang. If the words hadn't been about Jesus, I think you would have felt right at home. ;) G'night!

Pagans and Wiccans are making many comments but have they served in the military thereby making their comments experienced observations and useful critiques ??? Without this experience, their "voodoo" falls on deaf ears.

"" Arminius:

Paganplace,

You said: "There has to be a whole. Feeling *and* reason. Not as a compromise, but as *life.* The real life we all live."

We are in agreement. This is one of the markers on the path.""

Markers? What is this markers?

We donneedno stinking markers. :)

It's not a marker. Unless you got lost somewhere between heart, gut, and head.

There's a lot of paths out there, but... that stuff was always with us. Some will say it's harder than that, and maybe only walking will show us that, but that's one thing that was always with us. Can't help but be.

Looking for marked tracks is a good way to get railroaded.

Cause certain bastiches do in fact know all the tricks. Heart, head, gut, we deal with the interface we get, but it's always there.

When was the last time anyone sang to you, JJ?

I have not changed since you went from proclaiming Pagans as 'Eclati-ONs' to what you say now.

The only thing that's changed is *what you say* your vision means.

It's turned dark, and hateful, and frightened, and...

Well, You wanna be a prophet, *you* figure it out.

You still say 'Ya-ya,' but I hear no joy in it.

Still don't know where you got the idea Romney had anything to do with goodness, but rock'n'roll, we can do.

*puttin something on shuffle*

Here. I'll sing. : )

"If my words did flow
With the gold of sunshine
And the tunes were played
On a harp unstrung....

Could you hear my voice
Come through the music?

Would you hold it near,
As if they were your own?

It's a hand-me-down
No thoughts are broken
Perhaps, they're better left unsung
I don't know...
I don't really care...
Let there be songs
To fill the air.

Ripple in still waters
There is no pebble tossed,
Nor wind to blow
Reach out your hand
If your cup may be empty
If your cup is full,
May it be again,

Let it be known
There is a fountain
That was not made by the hand of man

There is a road
No simple highway
Between the dawn and the dark of night
And if you go
No one may follow
That path is for your steps alone.

Ripple in still waters

There is no pebble tossed,
Nor wind to blow.

The yew and oak trees
To lead must follow
But if you fall
You fall alone

If you should stand,
Then who's to guide you?

If I knew the way
I would take you home."

--The Grateful Dead

You're not alone, JJ.

Me, and the people you used to get along with are no different.

I know it's confusing, and you always needed a *reason* to filter what you love about people through some safe idea, but your ideas have turned dark.

I don't think that's you.

I think you're a good man looking for an excuse to feel like one.

It's all well and good to 'see the Light,' another thing to bring it home.

This is home, too, here. It's not about thinking things, JJ, ...It's about *being things.*

It's OK.

You can be something. You don't even need ultimates for it. Really.

Dig?

Dear Mr. Blazek,

Your story reads like "Tip-toe Through the Tulips." God, War, and Coffee? I have never read an account from a soldier of any war that was sooooo saccharine and "Kum-ba-ya". What was in your coffee? WAR?

What do they call that pesky little thing ------ oh yes: The Hippocratic Oath. Do you remember doc? Primum non nocere?

This is a vile attempt to somehow suggest that God, whatever your theistic bias, is somehow present on the battlefield ------ perhaps in that cup of java. Or, maybe he’s in the next IED.

Tell me, doc: Is it the same God that allowed my friend to blown to bits in front of me ------ while sparing my sorry, sinful a$$? Or, is it the God that high school basketball teams each pray to?

While we’re at it, how does this prayer thing work? If enough people pray about the same thing does God finally take notice ------ as if HE says: “Oh for Christ’s sake, alright already! I’ll save the dying child, the cancer-ridden pregnant mom, and I’ll let your team beat the other guys.”

Exactly what part about “Thou shalt not kill” don’t you fundamentalists get?

Do me a favor ----- don't pray for me.

What do they call that pesky little thing ------ oh yes: The Hippocratic Oath. Do you remember doc? Primum non nocere?

This is a vile attempt to somehow suggest that God, whatever your theistic bias, is somehow present on the battlefield ------ perhaps in that cup of java. Or, maybe he’s in the next IED.

Tell me, doc: Is it the same God that allowed my friend to blown to bits in front of me ------ while sparing my sorry, sinful a$$? Or, is it the God that high school basketball teams each pray to?

While we’re at it, how does this prayer thing work? If enough people pray about the same thing does God finally take notice ------ as if HE says: “Oh for Christ’s sake, alright already! I’ll save the dying child, the cancer-ridden pregnant mom, and I’ll let your team beat the other guys.”

Exactly what part about “Thou shalt not kill” don’t you fundamentalists get?

Do me a favor ----- don't pray for me.

Paganplace,

You said: "There has to be a whole. Feeling *and* reason. Not as a compromise, but as *life.* The real life we all live."

We are in agreement. This is one of the markers on the path.

Arminius

the problem with any story like this is that the god part is absolutely irrelevant. the same story can be told the same way, without in any way requiring a god to make sense of it. if you already believe in god, you automatically give him credit for everyone's actions, if you don't you don't. bottom line, nothing about the story in any way makes either premise more or less likely true.

Jeff P,

That was Jozevz. He shows up on these blogs often, and no one understands him. Might one think he needs to take his meds?

Oh my gosh what was that?

OH my gosh what was that?

"Paganplace,

To give Thomas Z the benefit of the doubt, I think he was referring to those few here who brand anyone who is a believer, regardless of religion, as a drooling idiot."

Frankly, I've lost that illusion, but hey. There's a certain amount of noise from people whose answer to everything is 'Your God or Gods don't exist,' ....but they tend to lack social skills.

Then again, Christians tend to treat these folks like they're the same thing as Stalin, who was a man horribly-abused by Christians and decided that instead of being Christian, cause someone might torture you, people should worship *Stalin* cause *he* might do the very same things much sooner.

Discussion here is very tied up by the notion some Christians have that all who don't believe as they do are the same as certain 'angry atheists' who have seen nothing else but know only that the line some try to sell us is *wrong and backwards.*

You got Bush living down to his own myth of the Antichrist cause that's the only place his cokehead self can find in the universe... And you have people parroting everything that crosses his fratboy mind, why?

Cause that's what they're *told.*

And they know nothing else.

And want someone to blame for what they keep clamoring for *going so wrong.*

People keep telling them 'This is righteous, ...when it comes out backwards, you aren't being righteous enough.'

Yeah, a lot of people are cheesed-off.

But, Arminius, 'moderate' isn't halfway between America and the Spanish Inquisition.

There *is* no 'moderate' between reason and unreason.

There has to be a whole. Feeling *and* reason. Not as a compromise, but as *life.* The real life we all live.

Or else we fight while others profit and lord it over us.

That's how it goes.

Every single time.

PaganPlace, I totally agree with you.

Sorry I'm a little confused about your comment to me, but I'm definitely an atheist. I'm going to hell with the best of them, I'm afraid.

It's not at all hard for me to understand that we are, as a common denominator, human, as I was trying to explain to our fellow commentor, Thomas Z.

Again, sorry I don't fully understand your comment to me (I'm a little thick headed at times) but will try if you'll show me. Not sure where I came off giving you the impression that I don't think we'll ever all get along--I saw your post over at the Greg Epstein article as well--that gives me a lot of hope of cooperation in fact. I think you and I are thinking the same things, but let me know if I'm misunderstanding your point.

The "angry" non-believer commentary that I mentioned can be linked to through www.onegoodmove.org. It's called "Open Letter to All Returning Soldiers."
It's just not appropriate for me to directly link to it through this forum.

Hope that helps clarify things a little bit...

Paganplace,

To give Thomas Z the benefit of the doubt, I think he was referring to those few here who brand anyone who is a believer, regardless of religion, as a drooling idiot.

Last I checked, both you and I are believers, just in different creeds. And last I checked, neither of us are drooling idiots.

It's best to ignore the s**t tossers. They cannot enter into discussion, just condemnation of any who do not agree with them.

Oh, yeah, the group of s**t throwers includes the rabid religious right. They also condemn both you and I.

With respect,

Arminius

Jerry, it too has bothered me over the last year, as I purchased and read "With God on Our Side" by Michael Weinstein. Powerful read.

Sounds like Colonel Antoon had a similar experience, and what a disappointment for his son. In his article, I really don't believe he's overstating the concern about our country's state of affairs.

I wonder where it all is going legally, but the problem is so much bigger than I think we can imagine--permeating so much of our gov't--I think Weinstein's revelation is only the tip of the iceburg.

There is some hope I think, and I'd invite you to look at this companion-article right here on On Faith:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/greg_m_epstein/2007/11/theists_atheists_fighting_tort.html

Be sure to read the comments.

I would say, Jeff P, if it is hard for you to understand that atheists may share human fellowship under difficult circumstances, how bout you start with understanding that non-Christians are accustomed to these fellowships, even with Christians.

If you can start by seeing that our humanity, *in the good way* is not magically-conferred, (exclusively, at least) by a single God, then you may at least understand that we all share a humanity that you really don't need theology to explain, unless of course your theology says we're all horrible and selfish unless Jesus intervenes.

Really... We're all the people you may have met.

Like in life or something.

Some may credit Jesus for any 'redeeming features,' but, actually, so happens people aren't all-intrinsically-bad.

Who knew.

Well, apart from Pagans.

If you feel the need for an astringent mouth wash after reading the saccharine ramblings of Mr. Blazek, I would suggest you read the report of retired Air Force Colonel David Antoon.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071107_the_cancer_from_within/

Samuel, thanks for sharing your story. I recently read an (albeit, more wordfully colorful) article written from the standpoint of an "angry" non-believing volunteer soldier, but amazingly comes to very many similar conclusions, as Captain Blazek's experiences.

In it, he basically shares the profound experiences of growing closer to his fellow soldiers, and of the very human bond that develops when soldiers realize they have only themselves to rely upon.

Mr. Zabiega, what a cool thing to have known this author. I too spent my time in the medical residency trenches. I do confess to be a non-believer, but hopefully not a "hateful" one.

I would suggest to you though that a-theism isn't really a religion--maybe it has become an ideology, or even a growing response--but the argument about Stalin, Mao, and Lenin (I congratulate you on not including the usual "Hitler" in there) is fairly well-trodden.

You've probably heard it before, but I think most of us wouldn't now suggest that the concept of "not believing" in any supernatural gods specifically leads one, or a whole nation, to a murderous rampage. I'm open to learning, but until there's evidence that the premise of "non-belief" is primarily what drives these power-hungry dictators to their atrocities, it's easy enough to sweep that argument out the door. The gods don't have the corner market on morality, nor altriusm.

It's easy to demonize non-believers, and I also relate to your frustration that the On Faith forum might not be the best forum to vent any rage, but I tend to look more at the fruit of the tree, so to speak. We're all capable of wonderful and terrible things, equally.

Captain Blazek, thanks for the article!

Just on a practical note, ...if your browser still works, hitting "Post" once always works, it just sometimes takes inordinate amounts of time.

Will ask Thomas Z, exactly how what he said several times somehow means that, say, stuff I said means non-Christians are 'God-haters?'

Cause I hear that a lot.

Doesn't do much for the java.

Great article! I spent time in the "trenches" of medical residency with Bill Blazek and he apparently was the same as in the old army days, i.e. a lot of fun. For all the God-hating commentators to this article: remember the Communists like Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc. killed tens of millions of people for the sake of the most fanatical religion, called militant atheism. Not even the most fanatical Christians, Muslims, and Jews have even come close to that carnage.

Great article! I spent time in the "trenches" of medical residency with Bill Blazek and he apparently was the same as in the old army days, i.e. a lot of fun. For all the God-hating commentators to this article: remember the Communists like Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc. killed tens of millions of people for the sake of the most fanatical religion, called militant atheism. Not even the most fanatical Christians, Muslims, and Jews have even come close to that carnage.

Great article! I spent time in the "trenches" of medical residency with Bill Blazek and he apparently was the same as in the old army days, i.e. a lot of fun. For all the God-hating commentators to this article: remember the Communists like Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc. killed tens of millions of people for the sake of the most fanatical religion, called militant atheism. Not even the most fanatical Christians, Muslims, and Jews have even come close to that carnage.

Mr. Blazek,
Thank you for such a decent and compassionate article, so appropriate for Nov 11. As a veteran, I can relate to it, although I never experienced combat. (1968-1970, Army, Combat Engineer, West Berlin.)

Capt. Justin,
Excellent replies, thanks. You have it right: "But between faith, hope, & love, I pray you've at least got that last one."

Arminius

When (some) Christians want to justify warfare, they always quote Jesus overturning the tables of the moneylenders to sugest that he wan't gainst violence. But isn't there a difference between overturning tables and shooting and bombimg human beings? Presumably God could hve nuked the lot of them to prevent the crucixifion - I wonder why he didn't? Keith Hudson

When (some) Christians want to justify warfare, they always quote Jesus overturning the tables of the moneychangers. Is overturning tables equivalent to shooting people, maiming them, dropping bombs on them? Isn't there a distinction between violence towards inanimate objects and violence against human beings? Presumably God could have nuked the lot of them to prevent the crucifixion, but he didn't. I wonder why not?

2 studies should be done: The Use of Religion for Power and The Use of Power for Money. If you ask: "Is God on the Battlefield?" The answer should be: "No, people are on the battlefield and they were put there by other people for reasons they may not (1) know or (2) agree with."

Getting people to risk their lives for an abstraction (national identity) requires Demonizing the other side - be they fighters or innocent bystanders. Hence, the illogic - if they are devils, god must be on our side.

From all I have heard of Jesus this was not the sort of logic he engaged in or practiced.

2 studies should be done: The Use of Religion for Power and The Use of Power for Money. If you ask: "Is God on the Battlefield?" The answer should be: "No, people are on the battlefield and they were put there by other people for reasons they may not (1) know or (2) agree with.

Getting people to risk their lives for an abstraction (national identity) requires Demonizing the other side - be they fighters or innocent bystanders. Hence, the illogic - if they are devils, god must be on our side.

From all I have heard of Jesus this was not the sort of logic he engaged in or practiced.

2 studies should be done: The Use of Religion for Power and The Use of Power for Money. If you ask: "Is God on the Battlefield?" The answer should be: "No, people are on the battlefield and they were put there by other people for reasons they may not (1) know or (2) agree with.

Getting people to risk their lives for an abstraction (national identity) requires Demonizing the other side - be they fighters or innocent bystanders. Hence, the illogic - if they are devils, god must be on our side.

From all I have heard of Jesus this was not the sort of logic he engaged in or practiced.

And, too, I understand how simple things can take on magnified importance, but, ...sharing? Fellowship?

That takes divine intervention, while you're about to shoot at someone?

What?

Really doesn't. Invite some friends over and flip the main breaker off.

Or go camping or hunting.

Probably that's why people go do that.

And, JJ, I know you must believe people just say you're crazy for claiming you've seen the Light and how you talk.

But neither of these makes you crazy.

What makes you crazy is where you *don't* see the 'Light.'

That'd be humanity. Gods know no one makes that easy.
NYC ain't that bad, if you know how to look.

I still really don't get the Romney connection, but, how bout some rock and roll.

I'm thinking old Springsteen, here.

What makes all this stuff crazy isn't *lack* of obedience to some form of some idea of a 'universal light and law' and who is favored by sharing a cup of coffee and finding it sacred.

The wars themselves come from the idea that some are *not* so-favored.

And all the fears that come with this.

It ill-becomes the velocity 'c' to start saying life and love and even conflict are 'impure,' in the ways you've begun to say.

It's not 'love' the things you've begun to say in recent months here, JJ, ...and certainly not 'light.'

You kind of worship through relativity, ..remember this axiom: There are no privileged reference points.

Especially when it comes to mere humanity.

I think the experiences of Wiccan and Pagan soldiers might also show that these experiences of cameraderie are *not* based in any one religion, though the effects of the alienation of crediting a particular religion for the better responses of people in crazy situations are certainly at least as real as this Jesuit's idea that 'this is God.'

I've experienced similar things in non-military situations, .... certainly among fellow Pagans.

Someone wants to say that's 'God,' ....OK. Saying a particular religion or particular God *owns* that, or that it's *not* an inherent part of our humanity, a goodness though it may be...

Well, I'll have to beg to differ on the footnotes.

It doesn't take away the experience, though.

Just, I've shared a lot with a lot of people under a lot of conditions... In many of them, well, you couldn't tell them you weren't Christian, even if they got the idea in mind you were some kind of walking Angel.

Maybe it's kind of like how Jacob thinks he sees the 'Ultimate light' yet can't hear your story without screaming for the castration of queers as 'pedophiles,'

Some ideas rob us of simple "humate" *fellowship and goodness* even as they promise to do the opposite.

Mind you, any God that's in the simple fellowship in messed-up situations is worth raising a cup of Joe to in my book.

It's just that maybe if we understood that these are part of our *humanity,* (whoever you think gives or informs *that*) rather than grudgingly-granted to us by only one religion, well, ...that coffee might taste even better.

If people still need to be spelled from killing each other in the first place, at that point.

Regarding Anne (not Anna, unless Justin is a Justice Of The Peace), I think she is tired of the trail of death that is associated with Christianity. (Before you get your panties in a twist, read a history book or two and you'll see why the rest of the world is sick of you Christians.)

Most likely, she used small words that Christians can understand.

Of course, she could have explained how the metaphysics and epistemology of a dualisism of Christianity is constantly out of synchronization with its axiology, but she didn't want to talk over your heads.

Besides, it's fun to watch you Christians tweak when anybody challenges your beliefs.

Have a nice day.

Anna,

You seem to have a simplistic viewpoint. Do not murder is a commandment. But sometimes violence is necessary - even if you wish it wasn't. Jesus had no problem throwing around tables and yelling at the moneychangers to get out of his Father's house, (the temple). Likewise, if I were walking down the street and saw you being held down two men in an alley, I'd charge right in to defend you.

Wars are much more complicated affairs than the examples I gave. But the fact remains that daily our troops make sacrifices, and dying to save your brother is an example of love. So while war is not a divine virtue, there are virtuous people on both sides.

Andy Thomson gave a fascinating talk recently on male coalition bonded violence that speaks I think to the heart of what Blazek was writing about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uuipt15s08c

Oh, yes!

War is the ultimate expression of love!

Love thy neighbor by blowing his head off! Yes, war is a divine virtue!

Hallelujah and let's kill in the name of Jesus.

Well Mr. Blazek, I appreciate your comments and thank you for the sacrifices you've made, both in the military and now for faith.

As to Saumuel, I'm sorry you faced persecution, especially from those with a shallow faith themselves. I'm a Christian, but I despise those who make hypocritical judgments on issues of God's favoritism and will. (It's not my place to tell you you're right or wrong).

As to those folks popping out of the woodwork, Mr Blazek gave a powerful testimony of God's presence in the 101st. If you've got a similar experience you wish to share that deals with homosexuality, by all means express it in the appropriate forum. But just because you want to believe it could be true in the first Gulf War doesn't make it true.

Furthermore, Mr. Blazek said, "One thing that has always struck this veteran about those who serve our nation in the armed forces is the incredible generosity with which they care for each other, the incredible generosity with which they love one another." ...Consistently, those who get out of the armed forces say they miss that consideration for one another. I believe that is the author's opinion, and it's certaintly mine, that such love for your fellow man is a reflection of God's love for us.

That doesn't make it a Christian monopoly- there are those who call themselves Christians, "but have not love". Additionally, saying it's only a christian trait would be an insult to the many servicemen & women who love their troops but have differing faith or none. But I know many folks who have lived most of their lives and only recently realized God's presence in it. You don't have to acknowledge Christ for him to be at work in you.

Some will agree with that statement, others won't- hey, that's faith. But between faith, hope, & love, I pray you've at least got that last one.

Re: God and coffee

What's God got to do with anything? There's no God, or if there is a God, there's no evidence of his existence in a combat zone.

Do us all a favor will you? Keep God out of a discussion of what goes on in a combat zone. Soldiers help each other out for partly altrusitic and partly for selfish reasons.

What keeps men going is comradeship, not God.

That pietistic hogwash your put out has no place in any serious discussion of the business of war.

I agree about the sense of miracle that accompanies feelings of comrades in peril. My father's short memoir about being captured by Nazis and held as a prisoner of war in WWII tells about the movement of prisoners to stay ahead of the Allied troops. In one long forced march through snow, he tells of a prisoner who volunteered to carry the weapon of an old German guard who was struggling to continue walking and, in essense, stay alive. Apart from questions of gender sexual preference (remember Achilles) or the national identity that is the accident of birth, a sense of expanded community is the genetic reality of human beings. We are constantly challenged to have the experiences that rewire our brains for the future the are flying toward. We are the active participants in our own cultural and psychic evolution. Camraderie is but an example. There are others, just as there are those who draw us back to retrograde, cave man responses.

I wish I had experienced some kind of religious fellowship while in the Military. Instead, on my first day as a comissioned officer, while driving me to take charge of my platoon at a rifle range at Conn Barracks, Germany, my new company commander made the unfortunate remark: "People of any religion can be a soldier, and be good ones, but only christians have the moral authority to lead."

His next question was to ask what my religion was. I answered, truthfully, that my Grandmother had been an Anglican. But as a Wiccan, one who had been raised so from birth by my admittedly "alternative" parents, I had learned early to simply ignore and deceive fundamentalist christians. My new company commander, on whom I had to depend for mentorship and guidance as a LT, had identified himself early as just such a person who did not share the Army value of Respect, and with whom I could not and should not share even the faintest jot of the truth about my spiritual and intellectual life.

So I did to him what I did to the christians who would relentlessly bang on my door whenever my parents left home to try and "save" me: I simply let him blather on reach the conclusions he wished to.

Needless to say, this officer was one I did not confide in or heed beyond the literal meaning of his orders. Respect was not part of his Army, and as a young LT, I hoped he was the exception. He was not.

It quickly became clear that, whatever generous allowances were made for the faiths of enlisted soldiers, officers were expected to be christian. And the standard was not even that they were christian in their actions (for marital infidelity was rife) but christian in their church attendance. The best analogy I can think of is that officers are expected to be christian in the way that they are expected to play golf: you don't have to be good at it, but if you want to make rank, you better show up and swing a club.

My every attempt to start Wiccan lay groups was denied on pretense: "No room at the Chapel" or "not enough Wiccan soldiers" (though Ft. Leonard Wood's intermittent Wiccan worships have had as many as 270 attendees). But when I received my counseling on my promotion to MAJ, I was advised that to make LTC it was imperative that I impress on my peers my morality and character, and the only stateside venue that the COL mentioned for this was "church". Likewise, when I began encountering intractable pain in my back and leg, the Army hospital ultimately recommended that I attend Christian Science meetings.

I do not wish to disparage the christian faith or the strength it brings to fellow soldiers. But my experience as a religious minority is that experiences of "common faith" such as the author lists happen basically in their own minds: in the midst of this "common faith" are the isolated religious minorities get another message.

What's the message? When every patrol begins with a leader praying to jesus, every memorial service for their fallen comrades invokes jesus, when every one of their leaders invokes jesus daily for courage and mercy, and when you have to complain to a division commander so that your dog tags can be stamped "Wiccan" instead of "other", you get the message. Join the club, or you pray alone, because Americans are christians.

This said, to those Wiccan or other pagan soldiers who still serve today, I wish you the best. Stand like the stones, burn like the fires, shout with the wind, and fill your spaces and roles confidently and fully like water. Wherever you may fall, the earth mother waits to embrace you. You are not alone.

A cup of coffee equals love. Then I guess God himself has endorsed gays and lesbians who share a cup of coffee, eh? Must be true love.

And pray tell, didn't your God have something to say about killing? Oh, yes, I know. You conveniently forgot all those teachings about "love thy neighbor" and "turn the other cheek" and stuff that Jesus said about peace. If you find God in a cup of coffee and can't figure out that a battlefield is not a tribute to Him or anyone else, then you don't understand squat.

Homoeroticism has always contributed to the effectiveness of armed men.

As a veteran, I agree with Mr. Blazek, but to paraphrase him: One thing that has always struck this veteran about those who are gay is the incredible generosity with which they care for each other, the incredible generosity with which they love one another. They do this in sharing meals, in giving burned-out comrades time to catch a bit of sleep, and in simple things like cups of coffee. ....... God is very present to us in such simple gestures........ To take care of someone is to love that person, and God is love. Therefore, we can find God’s love in gays’ care for each other.

I'm not saying all service people are gay but what I am pointing out is that some people who find God in simple gestures of those they approve of somehow can't find God in the same gestures of those they condemn.

Why do Christians call any positive emotion love? It cheapens the word.
What you have here is the concept known as 'comitatus'. It's group identity, being a part of a warrior band. Comradeship.
Talk about reaching for the same old towel.

Everything you describe here was done in much the same way by successful warrior bands from time immemorial. The Vikings just didn't see it as evidence of the presence of Wotan.

God (if He exists) bless our members of the military who continue to fight for justice and the safety of our great country and world.