It is very refreshing to see positive information regarding the Craft published on such an influential site and newspaper company. Thank you.
Regards,
Karen L. Johnson

I just want to chime in into the the praise of Paganism. I am an unbeliever, naturalist, wondering at the miracles of the cosmos, but I deeply respect the urge and need of humans to have a spiritual connection to the earth and the universe.

It makes so infinitely more sense than the irrational, no: contra-rational Abrahamic religions with their primitive obsessions, institutionalized forced superstitions, with their scapegoats, heaven and hell philosophy and the rest of the simplistic, anti-science fear and reward threats, which has brought so much disaster to the world up to this day!

And I agree largely with Lepidopterix about the individual spirit dissipating, but not being lost within the whole of the cosmos.

Long time reader, first time commenter...

This has been such a pleasant read. So many of the article comments that inevitably follow articles about Pagans are filled with such fear and hatred from those unfamiliar with the religion except for what they have been told by their own religious leaders! Thanks to all Pagans AND Christians AND even "conscientious objectors" (what my husband calls nice non-believers) for conducting such a respectful exploration of Samhain and Paganism in general. :)

I appreciate the history lesson regarding halloween. As an unbeliever, I don't go along with all the spiritual stuff, but don't begrudge others for it as long as they don't insist I take part. I sure wish christians were as live and let live as pagans! (maybe they need another thousand years to come around).

It's wonderful to see an article that gives the Wiccan meaning of Halloween.

I appreciate that the Post ran this article.

May it bring greater understanding of Wiccan spirituality and it's deep traditions.

In a kinder, gentler America, Halloween was one of American children's favorite holiday. Decorations, costumes, free candy and a night out in the cold with friends. Then Christian extremists came along and said it was Satanic. Gone are the days of innocence and fun. Now we have Reverend Dobson, Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Vitter, Roberson et. al. judging your every move in their quest to make America a Christian extremist theocracy.

Notice in my name box where I live. There is a good reason for that. Mexico is a lot freer than America. I hope I can return to America some day when it is a democracy again. If not, I'll stay here and go with my friends on Day of the Dead to eat tamales and drink hot chocolate in the cemetery knowing I'm not working there to pay taxes to support an immoral war and the hatred and hypocrisy of Dick Cheney's Jesuslandia.

Henry James and Arminius,
Thank you for the kudos. To tell you the truth I was way into giving a history lesson on Wicca...but decided it would be a waste of time.

Happy Samhain...
May all your troubles be small and all your joys huge..
terra

Terra and HJ,

Bless you both. I was trying to formulate a reply suitable for a Christian defending his friends. Terra came through with flying colors before I could construct any reasonable post.

Terra
most apt response to Libarbarian.

though your answer should have been obvious to her/him, you phrased it very well.

and thanks to Starhawk for YET another illuminating (Moon?) column full of spiritual wealth and wisdom.

HJ

Libarbarian,
And how many Christians practice the same way as they did in ancient times? I wonder how many Methodists there were? Or who was called Catholics or Baptists? And how many meet in catacombs? Pagan religions are of this time...not 30,000 years ago or even 2000. We have a religion that fills the need of todays people. We honor the Earth, the laws and ourselves, while holding the core of what being Pagan means. We really do not care what others think. It is not about you.

But what I would like to know...is what we call ourself any of your business? Is our beliefs any worse then any other religion? WE do not have snake handlers or people that will follow a leader to suicide or allow child molesting, and think it is god that gives anyone that right.

Before you take the mote from my eye...take it out of your own.

terra

But there’s a deeper spiritual meaning that underlies the holiday for Pagans and real Witches—those who follow earth-based Goddess traditions that predate Christianity.

ARGH!!

Neo-pagans are neither "real" pagans nor "real" witches. Wicca is a TOTALLY MODERN RELIGION and nothing like what Celtic, Germanic, or Greco-Roman pagans actually practiced.

But there’s a deeper spiritual meaning that underlies the holiday for Pagans and real Witches—those who follow earth-based Goddess traditions that predate Christianity.

ARGH!!

Neo-pagans are neither "real" pagans nor "real" witches. Wicca is a TOTALLY MODERN RELIGION and nothing like what Celtic, Germanic, or Greco-Roman pagans actually practiced.

Lady in Moon Shadow,

What a beautiful name!

Some of us contributers here, even a Christian such as I, welcome the growth of this gentle and intriguing religion.

Arminius

It's wonderful that the people who host this site are inclusive enough to recognize the burgeoning pagan movement and earth-based spirituality.

It's wonderful that the people who host this site are inclusive enough to recognize the burgeoning pagan movement and earth-based spirituality.

Arminus,

I think so! At the least, I'm sure I recognize your posting name from previous posts that I've enjoyed and identified with.

God Bless and Happy Halloween!
MH

Any guesses as to where dotherightthing is from?

It could be fun to generalize and pass judgement in reverse! What city, county or state MUST a dumb @$$ come from?

Carpe diem folks, tempus fugit!

MH in NC:

Have we communicated before here in On Faith? I sense a kindred spirit.

God bless,

Arminius

Starhawk, thanks for a lovely and informative article. Also hello to Lepidopteryx and Arminus - always a pleasure to read your posts!

I'm a Christian and for many years now, have felt a special reverence for All Soul's Day (Nov. 2), which I recognize as influenced by the old ritual of Samhain. I see All Soul's Day as a special day to remember those who have physically passed away from us, but who remain present with us in memory and influence, and perhaps sometimes truly in spirit as well. As the days darken and the candles are lit for All Hallow's Eve, I often feel that I can sense the veil between our world and that of the dead become thinner, and thoughts of my late father and other loved ones come more strongly to me. In this way, I bring these loved ones to life once more and keep them with me. My father loved Halloween, and I light the jack o'lanterns every night from Halloween through Nov. 2, hoping that he might see them and smile. My husband and I were married on All Souls Day. The date happened to fall on a Saturday that year, and one reason we chose it was the feeling, real or symbolic, that those loved ones who had passed on, might be closer on that day.

"CAVEAT EMPTOR! (Let the buyer beware!)

October 31, 2007 3:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments"
_____

You sayin' that about ALL Ooga-Booga (HOORAY!)? Or just SOME Ooga-Booga (BOO!)?

I been to San Fran -- many'sa time. No worse'n MidWest Ooga-Booga. In fact, less bigoted. Of course, ALL Ooga-Booga SUCKS. Is THAT what yer sayin'? That JESUS Ooga-Booga is just as horsesh!t as New Age Ooga-Booga?

'Cuz if ya ARE, I'm with ya.

Personally if I have no trouble with Kansas...why should anyone have trouble with San Fran? Is that a way to be bigoted against a state? Or is it only a way to discriminate? People don't like our religion or what we believe? We don't care. We do not ask you to join our church...don't want you.

But lighten up...we are good members of society. You might live next door to a Witch and not know it. A important statistic is the rate of growth of the Wiccan community is: "In May, 1998, the Chicago Tribune reported that, though difficult to quantify due to lack of formal organization, neo-paganism is the fastest-growing religion in North America with the Internet being the prime means of proselytizing." Phyllis Curott (Witch, Lawyer, writer, in Who's Who)estimates a doubling in size every 18 months. This growth rate seems quite high, but appears to have some credibility in the Wiccan community. The ARIS survey of the American adult population indicates a growth in the Wiccan community of 17 fold between 1990 and 2001 - the highest of any faith group monitored. This would indicate a doubling in numbers of adherents about ever 2.5 years.

If the latter growth rate is accurate and if it continues, then Wicca would be the third largest religious group in the U.S. by about 2012, behind Christianity and Judaism.

And darlin, you will have to deal with us, we then will be a power block and votes will be wanted from us. I look forward to that day.

terra

Hi, Wiccan,
Go get 'em. I'm curious as to whether DoTheRightThing can come up with anything resembling a rational answer.

To Priver:
Nicely said, thanks.

This was a great article. Samhain is a wonderful time of the year, and will mark for me the end of my first year of involvement with my present group. It's a time to remember and honor those who came before me.. and time for a whole lot of food and fun.

Lep: I miss my Rocky Horror days! What fun that must be to incorporate that with family. A toast to you and yours for carrying on such a fun tradition! :) *throws toast in the air*

I must be missing something though. I'm an East Coaster, always have been, and have no idea what the writer who referred to San Francisco is so upset about. Especially since we don't pay for anything. Starhawk lives there, but beyond that I fail to see what the city has to do with anything. There's a lot more of us across the country than people think.

on this:
"However, given that, why should a rational thinker give any more credence to such magical thought as any "mainstream" magical thinking?"

I don't recall anybody asking anybody to believe anything. We don't need 'credence' to believe what we do. It makes sense to us, not to everyone. It's our choice, and it's ok that others don't think as we do. If it doesn't work for you, then that's ok. It's just another way to see the world. Just let us do what we do in our own way, and we'll get along fine.

DoTheRightThing:

CAVEAT EMPTOR! (Let the buyer beware!)

What are we buying and why should we be wary?

NUH-UH wrote: "It's easy...to generalize...but that don't make it so."
It's true in ALL cases that saying something doesn't make it so - that IS a foolish and pointless post.
In the case of San Francisco, the generalization is accurate, and I speak from experience, having been in and out of San Francisco since the late 1970's. I do believe that has educated me somewhat on the nature of its characteristics as a municipality.
And the truth contained in my post remains with respect to people today who call themselves Pagans and Witches: CAVEAT EMPTOR! (Let the buyer beware!)

Lepi,
We will sit down Thursday night and watch "The Wicker Man." The old one, not that gross waste of money and time new one.

I love Christopher Lee, and seeing him in drag is hilarious....my group gets mad at me, I tend to laugh at the wrong times. Well not really laugh, more cackling. lol. I like spotting all the Pagan symbols...The new one lacks all that. No humor, no Paganism really. They turned it into a horror film, so blah and we were so looking forward to it.

We had the Dumb Supper last night also as well as ritual. My animals were totally confused, all I could do was point my finger at them out of the dining room. They were used to me telling them (loudly) to stop begging.

Happy Samhain,
terra

Dotherightthing: "That phrase "In San Francisco" by itself communicates..."

It communicates, "in San Francisco", all the rest is YOUR generalization.

I am from Detroit, and that is like saying, "In Detroit communicates crack addicts burning their own houses before the street gangs get to it". Ridiculous! I know what the general "outsider" perception is, but my WHOLE life and existence could not be further from the truth. It's easy for those who have not been here, or have visited briefly with no guide to generalize...but that don't make it so.

Such a foolish and pointless post!

More cultural imperialsim this time in the guise of Anglo-Saxon Wiccans ripping off Celtic spirituality.

If you want to practive a genuine polytheistic Indo-European faith try Hinduism or Zoroastrianism .

Starhawk --

The explanation for Samhain was excellent.

However, given that, why should a rational thinker give any more credence to such magical thought as any "mainstream" magical thinking?

Horsesh!t is horsesh!t -- or isn't it?

STARHAWK wrote: "In San Francisco, the Reclaiming tradition of Wicca sponsors a big public ritual, where we..."
That phrase "In San Francisco" by itself communicates who these "...Pagans and real Witches — those who follow earth-based Goddess traditions..." are (New Age cultists), and their predilection to extreme and unpredictable behavior among themselves and in what they may condone or do to you and yours.
Caveat Emptor! (Let The Buyer Beware!)

Starhawk,

A pleasure as always!

Lepi,

Your belief is not far bremoved from my own. Your statement "I think it's most likely that when we die, our spirit dissipates somewhat, blends with the larger spiritual energy of the Universe." makes perfect sense to me.

I do believe that we are part of a whole, that everything in the universe or multiverse is intrinsically linked and thus birth and rebirth is continuous.

Hi, Norrie,

I visited the site. It seems there are some highly interesting questions about this topic that should not be ignored or swept away.

As for the World Series. I am officially in mourning, black sweatshirt and all!

Arminius

>>lepidopteryx:
>>L-O-Q:

>>I freely admit it's a subjective knowledge, and I can no more objectively substantiate my belief in reincarnation than a Christian can objectively substantiate his/her belief in Heaven and Hell.

>>It's what makes sense to me. I don't require anyone else to believe it, and I won't think less of you if you don't.

Thanks for your comments. I have to say that my belief is that we are, first, beings that were created. The probability that the complexity the human body encompasses in every respect could merely evolve into the synchronous physical and mental mechanism that we are, well, is just too simple of thought or answer. We are creative human beings..and Fords Model T couldnt have just 'happened'. (Not a great comparison, but just trying to get a point across...:-) ) Additionally, our spirit, I believe is individual. Scripture states that it goes back to God while we 'sleep' in the grave and at our resurrection into spirit at Christs return, our spiritual blueprint, if you will, is used.

Appreciate your views on your beliefs.

Lots of Questions:

You asked:

">>But I know that births are also rebirths

"Still curious here. How do you know the above to be actually true? How do you substantiate it?"

For possible substantiation, please go to:

http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/books/stevenson.htm

Happy Halloween and a very Sacred Samhain to any who wish such.

I was very pleased to see Starhawk's article, esp. since the article she posted on the last topic never made it to the main article page, though you can read it on her page.

During the 80's and 90's, Halloween/Samhain used to be the only time Wicca/Witchcraft was mentioned in the mainstream press, but in recent years our growth and a few well-placed court cases have raised awareness of our religion.

As for "proof" of the cycle of death and rebirth, there are doubtless several Pagans and non-Pagans alike who have had "past life memories" but considering the problems that have appeared with repressed memories about the present life, that have shown that memories can be manufactured, I doubt you would consider these proof. I can only say that my own past life memories are about as clear as my memories of first grade in this life, and that those past memories I have seem to make sense considering my own present life, if one considered one's lives to be segments of a larger whole. Of course, there are several theories of reincarnation, ranging from those who believe that one soul reincarnates thru time in a linear fashion, to those like Isaac Bonewits, who believe that after death the soul returns to the collective soul of humanity, like water being poured from a bowl into a lake, and that all past life memories can be accesed by those who know the techniques.

But like most religious questions, in reality there is nothing that could be called scientific proof, which is why of course it is a _religious_ issue rather than a scientifically proven fact. I believe in reincarnation because it matches my own experiences and makes sense in my own life.

As for the increase in human population, I would answer that quite easily. In the Pagan traditions and beliefs I follow, the various life forms are not considered more advanced or special than one another, so it would be no barrier for a wolf, for example, to choose to be born as a human in a later incarnation, or vice-versa for that matter. Obviously, since all life forms including human beings have evolved from other forms that no longer exist, so the first human incarnations would have had to have come from other creatures.

Anyway, I have a few things to do today. Since the circle I worship with includes people in several cities across two states, we have our Sabbat rituals on the weekends, so we have our big Samhain celebration this coming Saturday. I do need to attend a preparatory meeting this afternoon, though, so at least I will be talking about Samhain today :). If I make it home in time I suppose I'll participate in the secular Halloween by passing our candy, but our neighborhood usually doesn't have too many trick-or-treaters.

Many Blessings,

Antaeus Tammuz Finn.

Lep,

Thanks for the explanation. Clears things up.

Thanks for the info, after leaving Islam I call myself a pagan, however now I know the deeper meaning of the word and will have to find another defination for myself ha! ha! It seems quite similar to some Hindu rituals, I think they also believe in re-incarnation. We in Pakistan would call them devil/idol worshipers, of course we did not know anything about the Hindus or their culture. In Islam resistance is futile and once a culture is taken in they are assimilated. Wasn't there a theory that the Hindus once migrated many thousand years ago to Ireland? Now they have become White beer drinking Catholics? I'm not trying to be funny... maybe I am.

Thank you for the article. Most Christians are clueless as to what everyone else believe and really need to be educated in that area. Every little of education bit helps.

In the town that I live in, a crowd of Christians showed up to protest a small Wiccan ceremony, generally chanting out that "Witches support Satan". What a bunch of dipsh*its.

And then Christians wonder why non-Chrisitians regard them with such disdain?

Arminius:

I didn't say that EVERY birth is a rebirth, and I'm not so sure that spirits move intact from one life to another. I think it's most likely that when we die, our spirit dissipates somewhat, blends with the larger spiritual energy of the Universe. If there is a Karmic imbalance I have left behind, my spirit will not completely dissipate because of the imbalance binding it. When conditions are right, aspects of my spirit will be reborn into another body, and will combine with that person's spiritual aspect. I don't see intact spirits hopping from body to body.

So the way I see it, and I'm speaking strictly for myself here, my current spiritual aspect contains elements from both my parents, just as my physical aspect does, as well as aspects from previous lives that still need work, as well as some that have been created by my experiences in this life.

Lep, well met!

The Pagan tradition of Samhain is a good one, and has parallels in other religions. The Christian equivalent is All Souls Day, November 2 or so, and is usually fused with All Saint Day. Its pagan roots are recognized by scholars.

Your tradition with your daughter is really great. She will remember this always, and pass it to her children.

Arminius

L-O-Q:

I freely admit it's a subjective knowledge, and I can no more objectively substantiate my belief in reincarnation than a Christian can objectively substantiate his/her belief in Heaven and Hell.

It's what makes sense to me. I don't require anyone else to believe it, and I won't think less of you if you don't.

A beautiful article! Thank you, Starhawk, for that explaination, and to Lepi for trying to answer that question about rebirth from Lotsofquestions.

Also, Lepi, I love your tradition with your daughter. Several of my friends are in a shadow cast of RHPS.

First, Hi, Lep!

Next - Starhawk, thanks for a fascinating article. My interest in Pagans - Wicca - whatever the name - increases. As well as my respect for them. I am Christian, so I am not going to convert any time soon. But I see your religion as compassionate, non-threatening, and reverent towards Creation, all ideals which I try to follow. The similarities to Christianity are there for all to see who have eyes.

A question about rebirth. This is, of course, well documented in Celtic history, notably by Caesar in his Commentaries. If every birth is a rebirth, how is population increase explained?

Arminius

>>But I know that births are also rebirths

Still curious here. How do you know the above to be actually true? How do you substantiate it?

Thanks

Pagans don't see birth and death as end points on a line segment that begins at the cradle and ends at the grave, but as points on a continuous circle of birth, death, and rebirth. 3
So I celebrate the rebirths of those who have returned to continue their dance in the wheel of life. Can I name names and say that Person X is Person Y reborn? No. But I know that births are also rebirths, and so I celebrate not only the birth of the person who is now, but also the rebirth of the person who was, and has returned.

Thank you for the good article. I'll be passing on the link to friends who aren't familiar with Samhain, its history, meaning, etc.

>>and welcome the new year and the return of those wo have been reborn.

Could you clarify what you mean by the latter ...'return of those who have been reborn'

Thanks

After my rehearsal this evening, I will have my private Samhain ritual, in which I will celebrate the passing of the old year, remember those loved ones who have left his life, both recently and in years past, and welcome the new year and the return of those wo have been reborn.

After that, my daughter and I will have our joint Halloween ritual of watching Rocky Horror Picture Show - in costume, fully equipped with rice, newspapers, water pistols, lighters, toast, etc.