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http://moreaboutmen.com/artist/led-zeppelin/album/mothership-cd1-/a133879/

http://moreaboutmen.com/artist/led-zeppelin/album/mothership-cd1-/a133879/

"Understanding is needed"

Yes Russell. And we need to embrace the Truth that nothing and no one will keep us from enjoying the freedoms in our Bill of Rights.

Anon:

I'd be behind something like that. Understanding is needed. It should not be shunned.

gee Russell. Here's an Inspired Idea. Americans should follow suit and start breaking taboos too:

A top German journalist aims to foster understanding between Muslims and Christians by using an Islamic centre for readings of a book that sparked riots and book-burnings in the Muslim world and sent its author into hiding.
Germany's largest network of mosques has rejected Guenter Wallraff's proposals for readings of Salman Rushdie's 'The Satanic Verses', which many Muslims see as an affront to the Prophet Mohammad. But Wallraff is undeterred and says he will seek backing for his plan in Muslim Turkey.

'It's intended to break taboos in order to get to know each other and overcome prejudices,' Wallraff told Reuters. 'It's not intended to be a spectacle but a serious discussion.'

Wallraff, close to Turks since working under cover as Turkish laborer 'Ali' for a 1985 book exposing prejudice against 'guest workers' here, supported Rushdie through his years of hiding. A reading of 'The Satanic Verses', he argues, need not offend but could stir dialogue between Islam and mainstream German society Muslims find difficult to penetrate.

'I'm well known in my neighbourhood and they regard me as a contructive person,' he said.

Wallraff, 65, has been denounced on radical Islamist websites for his proposal. He now only leaves home in disguise and with a police escort; an experience not unfamiliar to the man whose book he defends.

Rushdie was forced to live in hiding for years after Iran's Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in 1989 issued a religious edict or fatwa amounting to a death warrant for writing the novel.

Wallraff had wanted the reading in a mosque near his home in Cologne run by the Turkish Islamic Union (DITIB), but it rejected the proposal. He then suggested using the mosque's culture centre but that idea was turned down last week.

'We have concluded that such an event would not facilitate the integration of Muslims in Germany,' said the group, a branch of Turkey's Directorate General for Religious Affairs which pays imams in DITIB mosques as well as the head of the organisation.

Germany is home to an estimated 3.5 million Muslims, more than half of whom are of Turkish origin.

Wallraff plans to appeal to DITIB's superiors in Turkey for help to stage the reading.

'Just because the current moment is a difficult one doesn't mean we should stop speaking to one another,' he told Reuters. 'I will travel to Ankara in October to try to convince the head of the government's religion office.'

DITIB, which promotes integration of Muslims, offered to organise a lecture series on Islam and democracy – including the Satanic Verses reading – but not on any DITIB premises.

DITIB said in a statement that Wallraff's 'unwillingness to compromise and his lack of understanding for the feelings and needs of the Muslim community' prompted it to reject his offer.

'I've tried discussing Rushdie's book with several of my Muslim neighbours at my house, and it's really great,' Wallraff said. 'They see nuances we don't see...Sometimes they even laugh.'

When it comes to religion, I offer this little tid-bit, I think it fits.

"What gets us into trouble is not
what we don't know,
It's what we know for sure that just
ain't so"--Mark Twain.

Anon:

Nice retort. Very grown up.

Is it nap time?

And you still have yet to make a decent argument.

"do you need to go blow up an abortion clinic?"

Gosh Russell-

Your brain has mold. Its been years since an abortion clinic was bombed..

Lets see:

1,700 acts of violence against abortion clinics between 1977 and 1992

167 attacks against abortion clinics from 1992 to present..

Wake up Russell.

Muhamad is a "PEDAPHILE" who married a nine_year old girl!

Yes "Allah Akbar" (G_D IS GREAT) but not Mr MUHHAMAD et al!

Remember: If islamic folk terrorize German "arian" folk then you know that all Islamic in Germany will be rounded up & ALL iSlamic Mosques will be destroyed & all thier "Immams" (Teachers) will wear Electronic survailkance devices! AND:

Best of all If any "Muhhamad" Lovers of the ISLAMIC CONSPIRACY OF "Al TAQIYAH" (SEE QUARAN at three:twenty_eight & sixteen:one zero six ABOUT INFILTRATING NON_MUSLUM NATIONS & SOCIETY"S FOR THE PURPOSE OF TAKING THEM OVER) come again to America then it is assured that the "KABBA (IN mecca) & GOLD_DOME (in Jerusalem) will be nomore just like the World Trade Center experienced a socalled "Poof_Time" a gonna moment & a zero G_d Allah Eclat made possibilities!

vote: DOWN with ISLAMIC_THEOCRACY & dOWN WITH Saudi_Arabian MONORCHY NOW!

ITs TIME to speak_up and do not hide behind some "Man_Made" SURAS and or so called ZERO_ALLAH_MADE_KORAN_QURAN_BIBLE_GEETA_TANTRAS etc!

You are "INFERIOR" Pre_Apocalyptic folks! WE "HUMATES" (Citizenz Denizens of Space_Ship Earth Tellus Gaia Geoid ) are the "SUPERIOR" Race aka the APOCALYPTARIANS as mentioned so many times here on this "onfaith" "onreligion" blogg Seq Passim!

The "center of the ECLATARIAN aka ECLATi_ON aka APOCALYPTARIAN (JOKTAN_Race & not your Pre_Apocalyptic Abrahamics "Peleg_race) is now in NEW_YORK STATE USA! Specifically & pROPHETICALLY THE PROPHECY & REVELATION (opposite of secret) is been "DISPENSED" & given to the "SHILOH" the Photon_Bringer of the Apocalypse via the "MELCHIZEDEK_PEACE_BLESSING" as prophecied therein & thereof in ALL FIVE MAJOR RELIGIOUS "Infixus_BOOKS"!

NOTE: "Melchizedek" is reversed the Abrahamic (Pelegian curse of which MUHHAMAD & JESUS & MOSES is descendant from & never & not descendant of the JOKTAN Eberu race!) War_Blessing! AND:

MELCHIZEDEK is the "Superior of ALL angels such as "Gabriel or Eliija" and is Superior of Muhhamad & Jesus & MOSES & Vyasa & Guatama ET AL!

behold: ALL "Abrahamic" Pre_Apocalyptiuc Religion(s) & Faith(s) & Belief(S) competing for a NAME FOR G_D SYSTEMS ARE "FOSSILIZED" & ARE TODAY RENDERED "Old_SONGS"!

Wherefore: LIFE IS A MIRACLE & BIRTH IS A ZERO SIN! So sex is beautifull & being born naked is a zero sin! Please throw away your hajids & burkas & skull caps! HUMATES ARE BEAUTIFUL so do not hide your faces any longer nor hide behind your Pre_Apocayptic man made & Zero "Allah" MADE "suras" that are real WMD (weapons of mass destruction) and not atomic bombs!

DOWN WITH "ALL" Pre_Apocalyptic RELIGIONS ON SPACE_SHIP EARTH!

UP WITH ECLATARIAN "Holy_Cosmic_Feelers_Faith Belief & Religion like!

PS: May XTRA_PHOTONS shine upon the ECLATi_ON "Prophet of many" his honorable ALBERT_EINSTEIN Of the "QUANTUM_ENTANGLEMENT" Revelation (opposite of secre$ts) & his "RELATIVITY" that is OUR (One Universal Religion system) GENUINE_PROPHECY WHOS "TIME" (TEMPERATURE) IS COME!

Therefore: The great Holy_No_Man Lord_G_d_ECLAT + "i" awareness is your "Holy_UMMA" aka "Holy_KARMA" aka "HOLY_HEAVENLYBREAD"!

This sayeth the ECLAT of OUR holy Cosmic HEART_BEATS that are "Together Forever With Source_ONE" the "Creator" of the "Fiat_Lux"!

vote: ONE_UNIVERSAL_RELIGION_BOOK! aka OUR_BOOK! aka "The_Book_OF_OURs" in the UNITED NATIONS NOW!

May XTRA_PHOTONS shine on AMERICA & FRIENDS! Ya Ya!

Let the battle begin!

Anon:

Your views don't make anything the truth.

What if I thought all Christians were moronic brainwashed people who want nothing more than to cast the undesirables into hell and sit in the clouds with a Made up God?

WOuldn't I be generalizing there?
I would.

I don't run around calling Chrisians idiots, and you shouldn't call all Muslims murderers.

Some muslims are just as deluded as some christians. Gotta remember, Islam is younger than Christianity, and has not had the time to grow as much.

So get off your high horse, or do you need to go blow up an abortion clinic?

Garak,(for your edification only, other commentators have been so edified many times),

A synopsis of the flaws in the foundations of today's contemporary religions:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. Google it to get added information.

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer (Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, "Rabbi Jesus"). Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists)via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. Google "The Historic Jesus" to get more information.

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(concept)
This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror? Islamic Iran, the Third Axis of Evil and also the "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an on-line Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’"
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/BUDDHISM/SIDD.HTM

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.

Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace in the world!!!!!

Garak-

Have you heard today that a man has been arrested in Austria? He was trying to enter the U.S. Embassy in Vienna with a backpack stuffed with explosives and nails. He was undoubtedly hoping to kill and maim many innocent people.

Is your first thought that he must be a Christian? Maybe an angry Episcopalian? or a frustrated Mennonite?

Cut the cr@p with the non-argument that has been posted here ad nauseum.

Lets get this clear:

MUSLIM VIOLENCE MULTIPLIES DAILY AROUND THE WORLD.

Concerned: Please address the Holocaust. Please address how an illiterate carpenter hallucinated about alchemy. Please address molesting little children. Please address burning people at the stake. Please address how followers of an hallucinating illiterate carpenter can stick Jews in ghettos for 2000 years. Please address how christians, with their ever-changing interpretations of their operating manual, justified slavery, Jim Crow, killing abortion doctors, and bombing churches.

Gators vs. christians? Gators don't have a chance.

And don't forget to praise Jesus on the way to the cross burning.

Russell-

Do you deny the truth in my words?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltcxJb29lqc

http://islamactive.net/

Russell,

To repeat some words of wisdom:

Gators vs. Muslims??? Gators definitely will kill. With Muslims, it depends but with the koran as their operating manual can we trust any of them?

Anon:

You're generalizing, and that is not right.

Not all Muslims are violent, not all want to convert the world. Same for christians.

My neighbor is Muslim. He is the nicest guy you'll ever meet. And he is celebrating Ramadan right now, so I get to sample some of the dishes he cooks, and believe me, the boy can cook some good food! Now how is that bad?

Russell-

Every nation on earth is in a "struggle" with Islam.

Don't you know:

“Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur’an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

Muslims will rush anywhere there is "struggle" to achieve their "highest hope".

Concerned:

you ask the same question of every poster who tries to have a decent dialogue about Islam.

Anon:

So how does the war in Iraq relate to the towers? Aren't we supposed to be finding Bin Laden, and not playing bully to other countries?

"we aren't fighting Muslims, we are fighting nothing, and for nothing"

Gee thanks Russell. Are the Twin Towers still standing too?

Russell,

My request was sent to Halima not to you. She has an opportunity to address these troubling and dangerous issues. Hopefully she will.

Anon:

Yes there is. Besides, we aren't fighting Muslims, we are fighting nothing, and for nothing. The "war" we are in is bogus and needs to end.

Russell D-

If your nation has been attacked by Muslims. If your brothers and sisters/sons and daughters are fighting at War with Muslims..

There is no other topic.

Concerned:

I hate to say it, but you really should think about bringing up a different topic. It's getting stale my friend.

Halima,

Please address the following flaws in Islam with added commentary:

Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(concept)

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror? Islamic Iran, the Third Axis of Evil and also the "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

And since you are in Hamburg, please address the following: http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/1701/documentid/2164/history/3,2360,655,1701,2164

"Despite the touchy history between the U.S. and Europe concerning terrorist activity, the past few years have proven fruitful for European investigators and prosecutors against terrorist groups. In early May 2003, a report on the state of global terror praised Germany for its successful investigations of the roots of the 9/11 Hamburg terrorist cell. The report describes Germany as "an active and critically important participant in the global coalition against terrorism." In fact, it was a Hamburg court that convicted 29-year old Moroccan Mounir al Motassadeq in February 2002 of accessory to murder charges for the 9-11 attacks. It was the first major conviction of a 9/11-linked terrorist."