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Now that I've read it I see that George already said what I was thinking, but did a better job than I did.

...excellent comment there George...

Have to echo Paganplace and lepidopteryx here; educate your kids, let them know you're there for them, stay in touch with what they're doing and who their friends, on and off line, are.

And give them their freedom, bit by bit as they grow. Let them know you trust them. Your lessons about safety will have a bigger impact if you show you have confidence in them.

More proselytizing isn't the answer.

Regards

A Hermit

I think, the best offence against sexual predation as you call it, is keeping kids equipted with safe surfing techniques and of course authorities policing the internet as best they can with lots of international cooperation. Reporting techniques supported by most of those outlets don't hurt.

Parents should take a role in making sure their kids are aware and of course, where appropriate policing. Undercover officers posing as children are a wholesome way of keeping the filth in line.

That said, 99.999% of the traffic/communication of the internet in all these communities is NOT malign. Some of it may be immature and stupid, but some day we must always keep our fears in perspective.

I don't think FAITH communities should "band" together to police the internet. Perhaps, people of faith should join or found, secular organizations to protect children. In Canada, they have a very great organization that tracts sexual preditors, particularly ones that have abducted children. Protecting ones children is NOT a faith issue, its a parenting issue. If people of faith, could stop confusing up their faith with basic human issues, perhaps they would be less annoying.

As for on-line presence of people of faith, discussing faith related things including their values? Well, duh, its already there. Don't worry about it. Should people of faith band together more there? Why not.

I believe firmly in separation of church and state. That is not to say, imposing silence on people in American public schools for example, or banning religious books from said schools to ensure that the Americans of the future will be more ignorant of the world around them than they are today. But it should not be the place of religion to impose itself on people. In a free society, religion is a matter of free choice. They spirit should be respected in the public schools. Those in authority should not teach their religion but should not be prevented from expressing it in passive ways such as having a bible on thier desk or even (my god) reading one in view of students. Teaching of creation as science would be inappropriate but having a class debatte in a science class where children take both sides and discuss the issues would be appropriate in a science class.

If the American right and left, understood the concept of choice, your country would be a better place.

Mr. Murray:

I do not normally post, but this topic is too important not to address.

While your intentions may be good; the religious are the absolutely last group who should be chaperoning our youth online. Our Congresspersons have already demonstrated that they are not willing to create laws to protect our children from religious predators; in the wake of the Catholic scandal, the only law Congress enacted was to make it easier for the R.C.C. to file for bankruptcy.

Parents should maintain the right to choose exactly which individuals influence and/or care for their children - from babysitters to school systems to the religious. They should not have to expose their children to 'virtual' adults who are complete strangers to them, whose values may differ and who could in fact be predators.

If you want to help create a chaperone system, please develop programs in your religious communities to train PARENTS to be online chaperones for their OWN children. It is both the parents' responsibility and right to protect their children and they are the only ones their children can truly trust in cyberspace.

Faith leaders Mark Foley and Ted Haggard, to name two, are currently available to serve as anti-predator influences in on-line "communities". It takes a sinner to know the sin. These godly Republicans have been unjustly removed from their previous positions in the Republican hierarchy by those of little faith. Whatever setbacks they've experienced, they have shed their sins and are back and ready for action. They have the credentials to communicate with young people and should be excellent representatives of their faith. A powerful presence on-line will only bring the day closer to Armageddon and the Rapture and Judgment Day and Hellfire and Damnation and God's Wrath and all the other wonderful things Abrahamic faith groups offer the nation's youth.

While your at it, post some of those chaperons in churches. After all, where have we seen some of the largest and most egregious abuse scandals, including cases where previously identified sexual predators have been allowed to move from one parish to another? Oh, your and comment about not shying away from the "downright wacky" reminds me that you should put one or two of these chaperons in the Christian "Bootcamps"

Chaperoning cyber-space may indeed be impossible for the reasons commenters here have listed. But one thing that spiritual communities can do is provide safe spaces. My denomination, the United Church of Christ has a church in Second Life. It is Koinonia UCC on Xenia island. Pastor Sophianne Rhodes conducts stimulating and creative worship services there every Wednesday at 6 PM SL time. Everyone is welcome, come join us.

BISHOP EDDIE LONG AND BISHOP T.D. JAKES "ATTACK" TALK SHOW HOST REUBEN ARMSTRONG

Dallas, TX (snakesinthepulpit.com) - It started after a radio interview in Atlanta, Georgia.

Two of the four top Mega -Pastors that have been exposed in the book "Snakes in the Pulpit" are now THREATENING Talk Show Host Reuben Armstrong. Armstrong is the author of "Snakes in the Pulpit", which is now available for purchase on his website at www.snakesinthepulpit.com
Armstrong said it's no surprise that the enemies are trying to attack him. "When you are dealing with so-called men of God, you expect the worst."

The book which exposes Eddie Long, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar and TD Jakes on how they are using the Word of God to manipulate true believers for Fame and Fortune is scheduled to be released to the public August 29th, 2007. Armstrong said during a press conference with the media, "the Devil knows that by exposing these so-called men of God his party is about to stop."

Armstrong nor his staff went into details about the attack, but clearly state that "God is his Protector and no weapon form against him shall prosper."

The Reuben Armstrong Show was recently dumped by Streaming Faith, a Christian based site after exposing some of their beloved ministries. Armstrong said during a recent press conference, "It's not about Streaming Faith nor about the employees of Streaming Faith. It's about getting SOULS to Christ and that's the main focus."

Armstrong's show can now been seen on his website, www.reubenarmstrongshow.com, and is broadcasted on TV in 8 states.

Media Contact:
Reuben Armstrong
972-333-9526 or 1-877-773-8236
Email us: reubenshow@hotmail.com
Web: www.snakesinthepulpit.com

But, this goes directly to the 'who watches the watchers' problem. It's not like the dynamic only affects the Church... Like when the Republicans put a kiddie-chaser from their own ranks in charge of the very program that was supposed to protect kids from online predators: the doctrine, 'Never speak ill of a Republican: in order to claim moral authority, they cling to illusions of being more 'moral' than everyone else, by covering things up, and if caught, lie and deny until it's time for a tearful repentance.

Wouldn't want to break the 'holiness,' would we?

The best defense for our kids is to not set them up for these manipulations in the first place, not to go on a ritualized 'morality crusade,' cover a few pictures of breasts, ban a few books and websites, then wonder, 'Oh, why, Oh, why! Sin!' when bad things keep happening.

Kids aren't robots. 'Program' them once with a prohibition, then someone else can come along and overwhelm that 'programming.' Cause that's how they were taught to (not) think.

Kids need to be strengthened with strong senses of self-worth, personal boundaries, and personal responsibility.

Not preached at, their own sexuality stigmatized.

If you make sex into something dirty and secretive and morally-sketchy, then the dirty and secretive and morally-sketchy will have sexual influence.

I mean, Gods, this isn't a Happy Days sock hop, and look what that brought about... I mean, dag, look what happened when the Beatles showed up. The screaming. Look at the faces.

Some things you just can't stuff a cork in and say, 'All good.'

Anyway, it's pretty obvious from the response here that the Pagan community is pretty darn concerned with sexual violence and exploitation.

To us, sexuality of all kinds is a sacred, and good, and wonderful thing, and corruption and desecration of it by authorities and exploiters alike is sure to raise hackles.

Too often the 'solution' for the larger society is to do things that seem 'virtuous,' but are ultimately ineffectual, or even counterproductive.

"More of the same, only electronical" will *not* protect any kids.

They say 'Kids grow up too fast these days,'

I say, 'Adults don't grow up fast *enough.*'

Again, it's time to peel away the shadows that protect predators, not reinforce them with preaching.

Well, I dunno what Hitchens said, but they sure seem to have done a good job getting even their critics to try and stigmatize homosexuals out of left field when the issue is power and repression.

You're right, though, pedophiles are a case study in what can happen when people aren't allowed to sexually-mature. The Church has particular institutional problems in that, in that culture, the acceptable celibate life *is* the clergy, so that tends to funnel the sexually-conflicted right back into the clergy that promote the repression in the first place.

A priest is the last person I would suggest my kids contact,for any reason.
Pedophiles are drawn to religion (and child care)
like gay men are drawn to ballet dancing as a profession.
This is no put-down of gay guys,who do of course
make the best ballet dancers.
Its a put down of pedophiles who are sad
little men sexually scared of adults,who only feel
masterful with little children. Where better to go
than into a church,where people are deluded into
thinking that priests are somehow saintly,and can
automatically be trusted with their children.
Religion provides good cover for pedophilia.
Didn't Christopher Hitchins recently refer to the
Catholic church as the biggest pedophile ring in
America?

Yeah, really, the last thing we need is making the religious trolls into some kind of 'Net police,' ...frankly, you can just see the type. Let's add *religious* predators to the mix, ...really?

They're not going to stay, or even *be* focused on protecting kids, what they want is to proselytize. , ...you know the type, the ones that want to block sex ed materials and anything queer-positive, related to other religions in a non-defamatory way, etc etc.

I mean, benefit of the doubt, but who knows what even this author's definition of 'perversion' he wants to stamp out is? How do you know? Who decides?

The idea does raise a lot of concerns. In the Pagan community, we have to be vigilant against people who try and use the trappings to exploit people: this is made much more difficult when kids are only allowed to see defamatory portrayals and the like: how do they know Paganism *isn't* about coercive sexual initiations some creep wants to do, if, ironically, that defamatory view of us is the only one they're *allowed* to see?

In fact the one enforced by so many Christian religious?

Sticky wicket, there: we don't go proselytizing to kids, but their own churches may be promoting dark portrayals that promise illicit power, just *priming* them for some creep we don't even know about to take advantage.

That's another scary thing about Christian would-be Net police... they may think they're sheltering (or 'saving') kids, but may in fact be depriving them of the resources they'd need to know when someone's selling them a line of crap.

Offhand, I'd propose something more secular, like New York's Guardian Angels for the Net. Someone kids can go to if in trouble. And *they* should be monitored.

Not to mention NetNanny and other site blocking software that filters out "unacceptable" content - like sites about breast cancer because it has the word "breast" in it.

While this writer's nostalgia for those high school dances is admirable, I don't think that he quite gets this thing called the Internet. Just remember that "On the Internet, no one knows that you're a dog." People aren't always what they seem to be, especially in Second Life. We need to tell kids on-line that if they witness behavior that is unacceptable, they should tell someone about it. Their parents, their ISP, the companies that run Facebook/MySpace/Second Life/WoW, etc. Those companies have a vested interest in keeping out predators.

So we should have Christain morality cops checking up on net sites? Isn't that what what parents are for?

Last week another pastor was arrested along with his wife, for incest...a few weeks before that it was a paster arrested for motesting children. Seems to me that being a man of the cloth does not garentee good behavior..look at all the ones that got caught with hookers, fraud and drugs.

PaganPlace and Lepi are right. We need to teach our kids to have self respect and a sense of sacredness about their own bodies and minds.

Now a days kids are given all they want as soon as they want it..cell phones, cars, IPods and 50.00 computer games...along with computers. I know someone that is living on the edge financially, but their son gets those 50.00 computer games and they pay a monthly fee so that he can play his favorite game. Why is that a problem? Kids need to be taught control...once they learn that they are responcible for what happens to them, they hold themselves to be more important and that sex can wait. It is not that sex is immoral..but they are not ready for the responcibility or the emotion of it. That is what should be taught.

Self love and self respect will make it harder for others to use our kids...and will make them wiser.

As far as some Christian group being a watch dog on the net? Only when they can prove that they are better then I am ...and so far there are oodles more from mainline religions being arrested for harming kids then non mainline groups.

terra

PaganPlace:

You're right - the best way to protect our kids is to teach them, to empower them, not to encapsulate them in protective bubbles.

My teenager has a MySpace and a FaceBook page. And before we ever got our first dialup account all those years ago, I explained to her why it was not a good idea to put too much personal information out there, and how easily people can pretend to be what they aren't online. I know most of her friends - most of them spend a good bit of time at my house. Do I check up on her? Sure. I have a MySpace account, and am on her Friends list. I'm on some her friends' Friends list as well. I check their sites to see what kind of stuff they're posting, knowing full well that I have no guarantee that they aren't posting other material on other sites I'm not privy to.

But I'm not really worried about my daughter falling prey to an online creep. She has a good sense of ownership regarding her body, and she comes to me with her questions and concerns regarding sexuality. She has no shame, and she's well-informed. She comes to me with concerns ahe has regarding her friends who can't approach their parents as well. I do what I can to help without usurping another parent's authority.

While obviously, one can't let the predators have free rein, it needs to be acknolweged that the Internet is little different from 'real life,' in that these dangers also exist, albeit with less immediacy, all over.

The real answer, in terms of making a safer world for the kids, is in the kids.

Predators use shame and shadows as their shelter and weapons, ...often the very shame that is attached to sexuality, most conspicuously by certain religions, but also the result of a sort of 'siege mentality' generated by the media: in effect, blindly sheltering kids from a world perceived as hostile and dirty simply costs adults their credibility with kids and takes their protectors out of the loop where they could be being involved and offering guidance.

Predators, and particularly predator clergy, in fact *use* the religious stigmatization and shame about sexuality to isolate, manipulate, and coerce their victims.

In trying to exert more control, often well-meaning religious types make this matter worse. Queer kids are often abused because the very stigma attached to being queer is used to enforce silence and isolate the victims from those who could help. Notably, the community and the churches, when these abuses are exposed, turn around and blame the sexuality, rather than the shame and abuse of power. Creating yet more isolation and vulnerability.

It's time for society to disarm them.

Kids (and, let's face it, plenty of adults) need to be educated and fortified with good facts, good boundaries, and enough pride in and respect for themselves to not be so vulnerable to these creeps in the first place.

I'm very impressed with the kids (and adults) I've known who were raised in Pagan community, without the sexual and other shame that just seems the standard. They don't take that kind of crap from anyone, know they can tell their folks and their clergy anything, and, it seems, just aren't so spooled up by mystified and repressed sexuality that it clouds their judgement. Eyes open.

I think the only long-term solution to the sexual predator problem is for society itself to be more mature and open about sexuality, ...being ashamed, repressed, and conflicted about it only leads to manipulation, not just in predatory ways, but right down to the advertising that's meant to play on the sex-shaped *hole* in people's lives. 'If you can't have a satisfying sex life, buy this *thing* associated with one.'

I mean, if you really look at it, the people being politically-motivated to support really irresponsible decisions are generally the ones who seem obsessed with *controlling* sex or anything associated with it.

You get people with their sexuality all twisted around, taking advantage of the vulnerability of others... Often they're the very same people arguing for more repression. This is not a coincidence. They 'get' something out of it.

Time to peel away the shadows, not shout Bible verses into them.

Some creeps get off on that, too.

Jacob:

I was wondering about similar questions.

Since there really isn't a way to verify personal information posted on chat sites, how do they know that they are filtering out potential predators? It's a simple thing to create multiple profiles on a chat site.

How do we know that the pastors, etc. that set up the site aren't themselves trolling?

What's to stop a pedophile from creating a profile that makes him look like a man (I use the masculine because most are men, not to deny that female pedophiles exist) with a ministry mission?
Or one that looks like a kid wanting to meet another kid?

What's to stop predators who meet kids online from obtaining off-list contact info from them and contacting them privately?

A child-safe online social network is a great concept, but one that is, as far as I can see, impossible to realize.