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i enjoyed the article by mr ringwald-
he came away from his experiences with people of other faith with sensitive and positive impressions, and then shared them with us.

mr baum, ive always interpreted "vengeance is mine says the lord " to imply that it is not in our realm, and to leave the vengeance part to god, who is pretty amply qualified to mete out justice in his own way.

it is hard to do sometimes, but with practice becomes natural.

Concerned, you are using wikipedia as a source? Well, the guy in the office next to me disagrees with you. That's about as reliable.

Friends and readers

Thanks for your many comments and insights. I cannot answer each but let me encourage you to read my book, A Day Apart, for discussions and explanations relevant to each of your comments. All I have to say is in there.

Finally, the book traces the history and theology of the holy day in the three religions. Along the way, it illustrates the practice in the lives of three families, including mine. I can only say that our imperfect observance of the Lord's Day, and my time with the Jewish and the Muslim families, strengthened my faith and hope. The book was a joy to research and write, so I am happy to share some of its insights.

On the second line of the post of 10:34 AM "where there are" should read "where they are" sorry about the typo. Calling yourself a christian does not mean you are one, Jesus does say come follow Me and sometimes God gives you a very specific, simple job to do such as telling the whole world that the "Kingdom of God" is for all of His children, that those that built their own hell will get out and those that chose death will get out too. Hell and death, that is spiritual death, are both horrible beyond words but they are both self-inflicted that is why God came up with the Divine Plan that He came up with and one day a lot of people that call themselves christians will find out what that term, christian, really means. We are in the sixth day and night is coming but the seventh day will get here when it does. As Jesus said, "Be ready", some people are ready and don't know it and some people are not ready and think they are, God is Love, Pure Love. One thing I would like to make a comment about is when God said, "Vengence is mine" a lot of people seem to change that into revenge is mine but that is not what He said. What God means by that is we are responsible for what we do and for what we know and we should be thankful for the Divine Mercy of God and try to extend it in whatever way we can to others rather than basking in such self-rightous, holier than thou garbage that some people try to pull off as religion. True religion is taking care of widows and orphans, which basically is everyone. Take care. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

To Yo Yo: I thank you for asking it shows that you are thinking and not just parroting. I have no idea where there are, I am not God, just a messenger but they are not "just dead" there actually isn't such a thing. In the bible Jesus said I would rather you be hot or cold and not lukewarm for I will vomit you out of my mouth. It also says that the forces of evil are inadvertantly working to bring about the Kingdom of God. Islam is a religion of the sword, the sword of death and destruction, christianity is a relationship using the sword of Truth. I must repeat God does not look at your religious affiliation or lack thereof, He is a searcher of hearts and minds. satan is in rather a bind here and he is frantic especially since his time as prince of this world is much shorter than it was. God not only looks at what you do but why you do it and also God knows what you know and what you don't know. I may add to this post later I am running out of time. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Christopher Ringwald:
Your article reflects a great humanistic posture.To me this is true religion and this is true Christianity.Compare that to some of habitual haters and liers on this forum who utter nothing but evil and keep posting because they enjoy the infamy and shame they deserve.

WP should ban them from posting-freedom of hate and defamation has nothing to do with freedom of expression.

Frank Collins:

My friends tell me that you belong to low caste Hindu "Dalit" you are considered to be "untouchable"in your native India.
My ancestors were Hindus but they accepted Islam and became high caste Muslims.
So unless you are a north Indian Brahamin ...leave (I will put my key board in the dish washer).
Now this sounds like a bigot: but this is the great Indian culture and civilisation.

Ya Ya

Thomas Baum

You seem like a nice god-fearing man,and I
probably shouldn't engage you. But 9/11 changed
a lot of things,especially attitudes to religion.
And especially my attitude.
Mr Baum. Do think the 9/11 suicide killers are in Paradise or just dead?
They were as religious as you are.Maybe even moreso. Would you blow yourself up for God?
How strong is your Faith?
Surely,even you can see how deluded they were to expect to go to some big brothel in the sky,for bringing down the WTC and the Pentagon.
But they were as certain as you are that they were doing God's work;which in their case was killing infidels.
As a normal,I think you're equally deluded.
Religion made these otherwise intelligent men raving maniacs.
Maybe we should at least try to learn something from this.

bob:
and when did harris have god tell him this message?

better question=

bob:
when did harris ever say this?

Bob

Thanks for that quote from Sidney Harris:

"God prefers a saintly atheist to a pious bigot."

Having read On Faith threads for a few months now, including this one, I could not agree more.

Best regards
J

True religion is taking care of widows and orphans, which basically means everyone. How many people, no matter what they call themselves do that or at least try to? God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof. Jesus is who He said that He is and He said lots of things which are quite simple as a matter of fact so simple that a lot of people are blind to what they mean and what He said has been twisted to no ends since Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews walked this earth. Whether anyone believes or not the wrath of God, the tribulation of God or the chastisement of God, whatever you want to call it is coming upon the whole world, just remember God chastises those He loves. God's Plan is for all of His children to be with Him in the Kingdom of God, also known as the Kingdom of Love since God is Pure Love. One day a lot of people, not all but a lot of people that call themselves christians will know what christian means. I am just a messenger, the New Testament Moses, be ready. I do not hold it against Mohammed that he was deceived by satan, satan can try to come across as mister nice guy and satan is a god-wannabe, he is also a liar, thief and a loser and he is also very upset, well that is his problem. I have met God the Trinity and I have also met satan. I did not choose to be me but when I found out that I was me I said yes and I tell you it came as quite a surprise. The only human being who ever chose to become one, was Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews and He asked permission from Mary who also said Yes. Thank You Mary. The Jews are the chosen people for the simple reason that God chose them. It seems like the leaders and the people of Egypt in the days of the Old Testament Moses didn't believe either. Take care, Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

As Sidney Harris once wrote:

God prefers a saintly atheist to a pious bigot.

Rufus Hill

Mark Twain once said;
"The quiet confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly,makes me suspect that mine is also."
Now there's a thought.

Mr. Ringwaald's piece reminds me of the documentary produced some years ago entitled "Three Faiths: One God" and presented on PBS. In video (and probably DVD form)it should be available from The Washington National Cathedral,
Mt. St. Alban, Massachusetts Ave. and Wisconsin Ave. NW, Washington, DC. It has the views of many Jewish, Muslim, and Anglican leaders.

Can those of us who consider ourselves Christian honorably believe that we have the only one true religion?? Isn't it possible that Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc., who are moderates (and are not radical or extremists who pervert their own religions into thinking that they are directed to kill others who do not have the same religion) -- and maybe even atheists --may well be pleasing in the sight of Allah-Jehovah-God the Father?? I believe that many moderate Muslims, Jews, non-churched Christians --even some atheists -- act more consistently with the teachings of Jesus Christ than do many professing "Christians," who are so sanctimonious that they actually (and, thus, perforce arrogantly) believe others who do not agree with them entirely are damned.

Noteworthy is St. Matthew 22:14 where Jesus says, "...many are called, but few are chosen." And, while Christ is quoted in St. John 14:6 as saying, "[N]o one comes to the Father but by" Jesus, nevertheless, Christ says in St. John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him;" see too St. John 6:65 where Jesus says: "...no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father [the Father must also be Jehovah or Allah]." The Synoptic Gospels are rife with Jesus' indication that "all things are possible with God." St. Matthew 19:26; St. Mark 10:27; St. Luke 1:37; and St. Luke 18:27. Christ even says it is not for Him to grant who will sit at His right hand or his left, "but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father." St. Matthew 20:23.

So the One Father-Allah-Jehovah-God can "draw" anyone He "chooses" "by" Christ to Himself (or Herself). That must mean a lot of us who smugly think we're "right with God" are NOT and that many we think are "NOT right with God" actually are. And since I may possibly violate at least one of the Ten Commandments each day consciously or subconsciously, I tremble to think that I might ultimately find myself "on the outside looking in" where others of different religions may be welcomed (into the "bosom of Abraham" who was not only the earthly father of Isaac but also the older son, Ishmael, who is regarded as the sire of many Islamists).

Mr. Ringwaald's piece reminds me of the documentary produced some years ago entitled "Three Faiths: One God" and presented on PBS. In video (and probably DVD form)it should be available from The Washington National Cathedral,
Mt. St. Alban, Massachusetts Ave. and Wisconsin Ave. NW, Washington, DC. It has the views of many Jewish, Muslim, and Anglican leaders.

Can those of us who consider ourselves Christian honorably believe that we have the only one true religion?? Isn't it possible that Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc., who are moderates (and are not radical or extremists who pervert their own religions into thinking that they are directed to kill others who do not have the same religion) -- and maybe even atheists --may well be pleasing in the sight of Allah-Jehovah-God the Father?? I believe that many moderate Muslims, Jews, non-churched Christians --even some atheists -- act more consistently with the teachings of Jesus Christ than do many professing "Christians," who are so sanctimonious that they actually (and, thus, perforce arrogantly) believe others who do not agree with them entirely are damned.

Noteworthy is St. Matthew 22:14 where Jesus says, "...many are called, but few are chosen." And, while Christ is quoted in St. John 14:6 as saying, "[N]o one comes to the Father but by" Jesus, nevertheless, Christ says in St. John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him;" see too St. John 6:65 where Jesus says: "...no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father [the Father must also be Jehovah or Allah]." The Synoptic Gospels are rife with Jesus' indication that "all things are possible with God." St. Matthew 19:26; St. Mark 10:27; St. Luke 1:37; and St. Luke 18:27. Christ even says it is not for Him to grant who will sit at His right hand or his left, "but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father." St. Matthew 20:23.

So the One Father-Allah-Jehovah-God can "draw" anyone He "chooses" "by" Christ to Himself (or Herself). That must mean a lot of us who smugly think we're "right with God" are NOT and that many we think are "NOT right with God" actually are. And since I may possibly violate at least one of the Ten Commandments each day consciously or subconsciously, I tremble to think that I might ultimately find myself "on the outside looking in" where others of different religions may be welcomed (into the "bosom of Abraham" who was not only the earthly father of Isaac but also the older son, Ishmael, who is regarded as the sire of many Islamists).

Chris,

A better more honest and historical approach is to address the "foundations" of the major contemporary religions.

For your perusal and commentary:

1. Abraham founder of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have put Abraham on the myth pile along with most of the OT.

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth. Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of his sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian sects.

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/ hallucinations of "pretty wingy thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centred and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’"
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/BUDDHISM/SIDD.HTM

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus for an analysis of Jesus' life to include his illiteracy.

One sabbath he was going through the grainfields; and as they made their way his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. And the Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the sabbath?" And he said to them, "Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God, when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?" And he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath." Again he entered the synagogue, and a man was there who had a withered hand. And they watched him, to see whether he would heal him on the sabbath, so that they might accuse him. And he said to the man who had the withered hand, "Come here." And he said to them, "Is it lawful on the sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?" But they were silent. And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was restored. The Pharisees went out, and immediately held counsel with the Herodians against him, how to destroy him.

Christopher Ringwald,

I've been in Jerusalem on three Sabbaths. I loved the silence, the family gatherings, and the religious services on Friday evening, so I appreciate what you are saying.

I'm sure you do realize, though, that in the eyes of an observant Jew, and for most of the Christians who have ever lived in this country, what you and your family are doing on Sunday constitutes Sabbath-breaking.

Best wishes.

"ONE-MORE" you sure is creating a lot of "One-less" pre-apocalyptic thinking folk with their own blinded truth (Via humate, never Eclat's ,Nova-Star's) Wow.

I salute ONE-MORE! ya Ya. Shook Ria!

Nehemiah 8, 1-12
The Catholic Youth Bible published by St. Mary's Press mentions the Feast of Booths as being similar to the Christian Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day for praising, worshipping, and respecting God. Jesus set aside the Lord's Supper to gather together as a Judeo-Christian family and share wine and bread. It is in essence a building of community for the Christian church.

With all of your rambles how about a word of credit to the author? Maybe you guys need more than one day of rest. Wonderful column.

Yo Yo, sounds like you hit yourself on the head with your own Yo Yo. ya Ya. ooops?

< ? ------- : + ) ? Wow!

Jacob
Your rants are a wonderful example of what religion can do to a fine mind.
It's a crying shame Jacob.
I feel your pain.And your confusion.
And no doubt I will now feel your wrath.
Peace brother.

Frank

You seem to be as fired up with hate everybit as nasty and irrational as the Muslims you so dearly despise.
Your arguments are as bad as the their arguments,and just as stupid. You really have more in common with them than you realize.
You come across as a dangerous fanatic,every bit as whacky as a Muslim extremist.
Also,your long rambling rants are unreadable.
At least shorten them.Make them,at least reader friendly.