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Gaby,

Sorry about that, those posts were both mine.

In any case, I know personally who joins the military and I can tell you that this joining for economic reasons is 90 percent of why kids join today.

The majority are form states with high unemployment (such as Michigan) and are either from the farm lands or inner city.

The army give 20,000 dollars in bonus for some, plus health insurance, clothing stipends, salary, vacation, promise of debt repayment etc etc etc.

You have no idea what you are talking about if you think the majority these poor guys and girls are not joining out of financial reasons.

Anonymous says:

"Gaby states:

Those who fight our troops are terrorists and nothing else. They are the same terrorists that kill their own people by the thousands.

I feel sorry for your ignorance, Gaby.

Iraqi had nothing to do with 9/11; we are there to control the region for resources and for Israel.

Keep buying that propaganda..."

I never said anything about those Iraqi terrorists being involved in 9/11. You and Speed have a tendency to put words into my mouth.

I call the people our soldiers fight terrorists bacause they are not the Iraqi military not do they represent the majority of the Iraqi people.

I also never said I agreed with that war. However, I do have the upmost respect for every military person involved in it. There are many reasons why people enroll in the military, but I can almost guarantee that financial reasons are the least of them. Our soldiers are not paid that well.

sorry reaper but during my time the marines were not raping women.. While I was there if a service memeber did something wrong they were turned over to the Koreans for trail and ended up in Korean prison. Not fun. I guess we can always find sonmething wrong anywhere we look. It does take away from the good. But a lot of good has been done just the same.

hey Jwest...you forgot to tell about the part in Korea where after the marines saved the people from the monsoon rains, they proceeded to rape the women.

Good post Anonymous. I have so many stories I could tell about the kindness of our soldiers especially while stationed overseas. I can't tell them all but I will tell two quick ones.

One was with my unit in Germany. We were stationed out in the countryside away from populated areas and in the wine country. Germany experienced a very cold fall and the grapes were threatened. I'm not talking about a couple of winyards I'm talking the whole production for the season. The soldiers of my unit volunteered to pick grapes day and night on their off time to help save the production. No big deal you say?? When these soldiers were not picking grapes, they were on 24 hour duty. For somewhere around 4 weeks these soldiers barely saw a bed let alone get any sleep. Their tireless effort won them the admiration of the wine growers for many years after that. What did the soldiers get out of all that work?? Respect.
The next story was in Korea. The monsoon rains were very heavy that year and it rained in excess of 24 inches in a 24 hour period. If you've ever been to Korea you know the mountains were devoid of forestation due to the Japanese occupation. Japanese cut all the trees in Korea down to make chop sticks. The water just ran straight down the mountains toward small villages wreaking havoc.. Soldiers from my unit got in front loaders, shovels and what ever else they could find and started digging out and widening the small creek channels to help the water flow around villages and helped save all the villages in its torrential path. They worked tirelessly for three days keeping the channel open under very dangerous conditions, life threatening to be sure. Sometimes the water current was so strong it would wash away a truck, with the driver in it. Acts of heroism were committed every few minutes. What did they get out of saving many lives and property. Nothing. Nothing but pride in knowing what they are made of. I have more stories just like that but not enough time to tell them all. The US service member is a whole lot more then the sum of it's parts and I will go to my grave ever so proud that I got to know men and women like that.

I do not disrespect the majority of volunteers who serve - that is their choice and, unfortunately, it is usually an economic one.

I cannot respect those military members or others who lecture those who oppose the war and use arrogance, superiority and ignorant nationalism to do so.

It has been said that unquestioning patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Rufuse to justify the war and call for an end the occupation....these are stands that truely support the troops.

Great name...reaper.

You state:

"I'd say I have a far more informed view of what is happening over there than a jerk "taxpayer"

Just because you signed up for to kill for a living does not make you any more informed, enlightened or patriotic than American civilians.

For some history, marine, the attitude that soliders are "above" regular citizens is the same attitude that lead to the rise of Nazism following their defeat in WWI.

What you and your marine pals did over there is between yourselves and God - but dont come back here and arrogently tell us that you fought for our "freedom" and therefore you are entitled to judging opponets of an unjust war and occupation that is destroying American traditions and principles.

Thank AIPAC, Haliburton and the NeoCon war mongers Wolfowitz, Fieth and Perle for your experience not american civilian who oppose this farce.

I have never served, and likely will never serve. As such I'm sure I cannot fully understand the meaning of camararderie on the same level as those who have. However, I do believe I understand on some level the meaning of that service, thus I have deep respect for those who do sacrifice and serve.

SPEED etc., your statements are disrespectful to the hundreds of thousands of men and women who serve with great honor and dignity. While I disagree with the current war in Iraq, I simply cannot support denigrating these fine individuals. Certainly, some misguided souls have committed acts of depravity, and they should be duly punished. But one truth remains: the vast majority of men and women of the armed forces serve honorably and are entitled to our deepest gratitude. No matter how misguided the mission they may be given, they have always done their very best to complete the mission in the interest of America and its values.

That said, I believe the war in Iraq was a mistake. The majority of Iraqi deaths nowadays are not due to American soldiers but to a sectarian conflict with its roots at the dawn of Islam. I hope I am wrong, but I don't believe we can fix this problem with military means and maybe we can't solve it at all.

Regardless, assaulting the memory of those who have served and insulting those who do to today is inappropriate. As is accusing those with measured, nuanced views of stupidity or lack of independent reasoning.

I just learned you can't say s**t or a** here. What Reaper just said is the truth and that is what speed and ottie can't understand. I oppose bush and this war because it is about oil. That's why bush says he will make sure nobody will be able to get us out of Iraq anytime soon. Protect oil profits at all costs. What I said in my last unpostable post was people like speed and ottie do not have to serve in the military because if they were ever called to serve than there is always Canada or Mexico.

Yet another quote from Washington.

If we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war. -- George Washington

Thank God for men like Jim Lehrer and his family.

Having served in 1/A/2-34 Armor with the US Army in Baquba during OIF III in 2005, I can't speak for the Marines, and dare say I don't need to, but I can speak for those soldiers I served with, that we were no tools of the Bush administration, that we serve as much for each other as anyone else. Also, having secured the constitutional and government elections in the Diyala provincial town of Kanaan and served and fought alongside Iraqi soldiers and police, I'd say I have a far more informed view of what is happening over there than a jerk "taxpayer". What people like you don't get is that folks like me oppose the war as well, which is why I'm out of the Army now, I voted with my feet given that I know I can't change policy. I didn't join the Army because I wanted to smoke bad guys or impress girls. I joined because I knew that I would have the chance to serve with great human beings from all walks of life who constantly put the safety and well-being of others above that of their own. Come to think of it, I don't need to justify the service of myself or any other person who served with me, to some retard named "Bill" or "Speed" or "Ottie". I know my service, I know the cost of my service, and you who would heap hate upon the warrior because you don't like the war are welcome to do so.

Reaper, cut the cr@p about marines fighting for our freedom. They get paid to fight, and that's why they fight....not to protect anybody's freedom, but for money which comes from our taxdollars. Currently, Bush is using them as mercenaries to steal Iraq's oil. So the argument is correct that the current marines are Bush oil mercenaries and are NOT fighting for our freedom. As I see it, the marines should be grateful to us that our taxdollars are paying their salaries.

"the blanket of freedom"

Freedom through an unecessary foreign invasion and occupation?

Freedom through wire taps, government monitoring of mail and computer records and restricted civil liberties?

Freedom through torture and violate the Geneva conventions?

If this is your idea of freedom you are an idiot.

Dont read washington do you Reaper.

Is it just me, or do other people find it ironic that the liberal news host of PBS is an actual marine who served in combat, yet warmongering republican commentators like O'reilly and hannity have never seen combat outside a movie theatre. Yet GOP sheep think Oreilly and Hannity has more balls than people like Lehrer. How stupid does one have to be to support the GOP? hey GOP sheep, war is not a Rambo movie.

Ottie & Speed123: Folks like you are just lucky that trained "robotic killing machines" only use our training against America's enemies, and thus provide you the blanket of freedom under which you can post such vitriolic attacks against people who will account for much greater good in their lives than you will ever amount to in your sad, putrid lives.

Another quote from Washinton on the threat of a large military:

Hence, likewise, they will avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty. In this sense it is that your union ought to be considered as a main prop of your liberty, and that the love of the one ought to endear to you the preservation of the other.

Gaby states:

Those who fight our troops are terrorists and nothing else. They are the same terrorists that kill their own people by the thousands.

I feel sorry for your ignorance, Gaby.

Iraqi had nothing to do with 9/11; we are there to control the region for resources and for Israel.

Keep buying that propaganda...

Listen to what a real American patriot says - President Washington in his Farewell:

Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.

Z states:

"not realizing that the wolves always are at our nation's doors."

"you might find that a small disciplined and competent group can always overwhelm a large undisciplined and narcissitic mob."

What are you suggesting Z? That a small disciplined competent group will take over american foreign policy like the Israel Lobby (AIPAC, PNAC) has done in regards to Iraq and Iran. Did you know that Wolfowitz, Feith and Perle are all Zionists.

Or are you threatening to have a military coup overthrow the civilian run American democracy.

Either you are a traitor or an ignorant pawn who does not question authority and calls those who do cowards.

Perhaps you are both since you see to take the propaganda - "they will follow us home" as the truth.

WE ARE THE AGRESSORS. WE ARE THE FOREIGN OCCUPIERS.

Keep following orders, never question authority - that is what makes marines efficient killers of Iraqi men, women and children.

Who are the wolves, again?

SPEED, you know very well that is not what I said.

Those who fight our troops are terrorists and nothing else. They are the same terrorists that kill their own people by the thousands.

Gaby states:

Americans are lucky that they never had a war on their own soil (other than the civil war, off course). I'm talking as in being invaded by another country. If we did, the likes of you would quickly change their minds and be very, very grateful for that "oily American imperialist killing machine". You would greatly welcome that uniformed "man next to you"!

So you do understand the Iraqis figthing our marines are freedom fighters against a foreign occupation...not terrorists.

Go figure.

To those who talk about robotic killing machines, unjust wars,blindly following orders, and killing innocent civilians in Iraq in the context of Mr. Lehrer's comments, I write this:
You just don't get it and you will never get it until you learn to be self-disciplined enough to literally put your life on the line for a comrade.
I have never met a robotic Marine but I have met many exceptionally sharp thinking Marines. However, I continue to meet lazy people who indulge themselves in self-gratification, self-righteousness, and selfishness who know how to blame, to chastize, to preach, and to condemn. They have taken advantage of people like Marines to live their lives in that quaint American naivete, not realizing that the wolves always are at our nation's doors.
If the Iraq War is UNJUST, one should recall that the one general officer who called it so was a retired Marine. What is more, you happily internationally ignorant,upwardly mobile, indulgent citizens would not like Marines or soldiers or sailors or airmen to question every scrape in which America finds itself in; you might find that a small disciplined and competent group can always overwhelm a large undisciplined and narcissitic mob.

Only people who have never served or have ever been in a war could make inane statements like OTTIE And SPEED.

I agree, war is never just, and, if it were up to me, all war would be wiped out. But things being what they are, there will always be war in any given corner of our world.

Americans are lucky that they never had a war on their own soil (other than the civil war, off course). I'm talking as in being invaded by another country. If we did, the likes of you would quickly change their minds and be very, very grateful for that "oily American imperialist killing machine". You would greatly welcome that uniformed "man next to you"!

Many more civilians in Iraq died through terrorism committed by their own people than by American troops.

While the marines have quite a tradition...and have fought good fights in the past, Iraq is not one of them.

The idea of loyalty to only the man next to you is a double edged sword and one that is myopic and tribal.

This loyalty has fed rage and slaughter of many Iraqis CIVILIANS because they happen to live in the neighborhood where an IED was exploded.

Loyalty to those next to you has been the basis of the Bush presidency and it is small minded and brutal.

It is time as a nation to look beyond "the man next to you" and "support the troops" to the real issues at hand and the UNJUST nature of this war no matter who is on your left and who is on your right.

Is it not heartwarming that PBS's honored newscaster has such an objective view of the most steroidal part of the oily American imperialist killing machine in Iraq? It was specifically the bloodthirsty tribal attributes of "soldiering on" that have led to the war crimes of Haditha, the massacres of civilians, and the tortures of Abu Ghraib. To hear the respected newsman praising unquestioning, servile compliance with criminal leaders and careerist generals, lauding mindless clan solidarity above all other values, recalls Adolph Eichmann's timeless excuse, "We were just following orders". That didn't cut it a Nuremburg and it shouldn't cut it now. The U.S. Marine ethos simply turns normal human beings into robotic killing machines, and marks them for life. That's disgusting, not "honorable" service, and PBS should say so.

Mr. Lehrer,

"My Marine experience helped shape who I am now personally and professionally, and I am grateful for that on an almost daily basis."

Thank you for your service and the example you set for our men and women who are serving now.

Like you, after they have served our country they may still return to a useful and rewarding role in the civilian world.

JWEST:

I totally agree with you! Although I never served myself, I tagged along with my husband (US Army, Ret.) for almost 20 years. The bond one forms is very strong. Living far from any post these days, I still have a longing to be around service members. I consider the Army my family in many ways.

Thank you for your service!

There are so many people today that do not understand the feelings that go along with what Mr. Lehrer just said. You just have to be there. Many leaders today haven't ever served and do not know what sacrifice means. They have never learned to count on your buddies left and right of you. They will never know how to give something up for the good of others. They will never know what it feels like to loose a fellow soldier in my case, Marine in his. Being in the service teaches one to accept other as they are and maybe even learn something new from them. Camaraderie. It's a special word and real camaraderie is learned under special conditions. I salute Jim Lehrer and all my fellow service members and will take this opportunity to thank you all for your service to your fellow man.
J. C. West United States Army Retired.