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http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/hip-hop/g248/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/hip-hop/g248/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/hip-hop/g248/

Hi All

One thing, amongst many, that bugs me about the Genesis account and its interpretations is that literalists very rarely think out the implications of the text's explicit words.

For example, Abel kept flocks. Why keep flocks if you're a vegetarian (nay, a Vegan) as the literalists claim the Ante-Diluvians to be? And he made an offering of fat from the first-born to God, which seems to indicate a lot of familiarity with slaughtering animals. Also Abel's offering pleased God even though God had commanded a supposedly vegetarian diet to all his animal creations, including humans.

Very strange. There's plenty of other puzzles in the text, but literalists quite blithely ignore the difficulties or invent elaborate modern day midrashim to explain away the apparent contradictions. Of course a Higher Critical viewpoint - that we have a composite text - is unthinkable to a literalist.

DJ Whitlock, you tell us that Gods "answers to me gave me peace, understanding, and joy … as well as sorrow at what I see from those who say they represent him."

Please share with us, what exactly did he say?

I've never been very good at sitting still. The most time I spend sitting still is when I do my morning devotional/meditative ritual. Then it's feed the beasties (cats, fish, rabbit, birds), check the garden for bugs (mainly tomato hornworms) and pull off any that have taken up residence during the night, shower, get dressed, and head for work.

WOW, where on earth do you get the energy?

Gaby:

Cool!
--doing the happy email dance--

Don't be surprised if I don't get back to you before next week. Tomorrow morning is the Farmer's MArket and I have to go get my family's groceries. Tomorrow afternoon is rehearsal and decoration of the sanctuary for my church's BGLT Pride service. Tomorrow evening, my husband and I have a date to go see Pirates of the Carribean. Sunday morning, I'll be at church, Sunday afternoon, I'm ushering at a local performing arts theater, and Sunday evening, we have friends coming over to play bridge. Monday is my mom's birthday, so my husband, my daughter, and I are taking her out to dinner.

Lepidopteryx,

No sweat here! I'll write you this weekend!

Gaby,
Don't sweat BD - I would never expect someone to give me a third party's contact info w/o their consent, just as I would never give out someone else's and I would be furious if they gave mine. That's why I addressed both of you in my request.
I recognized your response for the application of lessons learned in Manners 101 that it was.

BD,

Jacob isn't screening for nuts. It is common curtesy to ask before sharing someone's e-mail.

And mine, of course, is lepidopteryx@yahoo.com.

If you do Myspace, check out my page - my screen name is 42

Sorry, correction....

e-mail: Nevermore53@yahoo.com

That's great. Jacob screening for nuts. LOL

Lepidopteryx,

I agree! I feel very comfortable around Pagans and have been to Terra's website. I am in the process of establishing my on at www.nevermore.covenspace.com

My e-mail is Nevermore@yahoo.com

I'll check with Jacob if he's comfortable to let you have his e-mail address.

Gaby and/or Jacob:

It sounds as though there are many similarities between your path and mine. I would love to learn more about you off-board. Please email me at yahoo and identify yourselves in the subject line.

Above to JD WHitlock was mine - I have no issues with Jacob's writing style.

Dear Mary Cunningham,

Who was Giordano Bruno??

above is mine - I forgot to sign it

To Jacob:
Please speak in regular english (not broken). We shouldn't have to read through what you are saying. All of this Mamas and Papas stuff and Eclati just say what you have to say and maybe your posts wouldn't be so long. If you want to be on Mars and speak their language call your mother ship and have them come and get you. Your posts just don't make any sense.

DJ WHITLOCK: "It is written that the fruit of the Holy God is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. So I guess the question is … who wouldn’t want love, and joy, and peace, and patience, and gentleness, and goodness, and loyalty, etc, apart of their life?"

These are all wonderful qualities, but they in no way require belief in the god of the Bible (or any other god) for a person to exhibit htem. I am pagan, and I work daily to cultivate these attributes within myself. And I know many people of other religions, as well as many atheists, who do the same.

Hi, Jim - although I agree with your explanation of how the OT was written, I don't think it's fair to ask people you don't agree with to stop posting, just because it embarrasses you (though I can see why it would). Their perspective on the Bible is one of many opposing views that have been offered here. Yes, I think there’s a "right" answer about biblical origins, and yes, I think it's yours (so do serious bible scholars). However, the nature of "faith" is such that people can believe whatever they want, without any basis in logic, erudition or common sense. I suppose some of your beliefs (if they include virgin birth, resurrection and ascension) defy logic as well.

Did you know that later parts of the OT are also myth-based? For instance (as I’ve mentioned on this forum before), there is no archeological evidence for Exodus. This is completely accepted by biblical scholars and Conservative Jewish theologians (though the word is not spreading quickly to the general public), and presented in detail in the 2002 book “The Bible Unearthed” by Jewish archeologist Finkelstein and Jewish historian, Silberman. If you’re interested in knowing more about this, see their Amazon entry at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684869128/ref=olp_product_details/002-1878591-2519231?ie=UTF8&seller

Janet:
"Mr. Plotz - You could write under a pseudonym, maybe something like Abdul Kassim or something like that, and blog the Koran. That would be a great service to humanity."

Plotz is Jewish and is blogging the scriptures of his own faith. If you go to his blog site and check out the introduction http://www.slate.com/id/2141050/, you'll see that he decided to do this, not out of irreverance or spite, but because he realized that he didn't really know that much about his own holy book. Humor is a learning tool, and let's face it, if you look closely at ANY scripture (or any other piece of literature, for that matter), you're going to find inconsistencies. Books, even "holy" books, are written by men, and when your holy book is a repeatedly translated anthology, you have to expect errors.

Janet:
"Mr. Plotz - You could write under a pseudonym, maybe something like Abdul Kassim or something like that, and blog the Koran. That would be a great service to humanity."

Plotz is Jewish and is blogging the scriptures of his own faith. If you go to his blog site and check out the introduction http://www.slate.com/id/2141050/, you'll see that he decided to do this, not out of irreverance or spite, but because he realized that he didn't really know that much about his own holy book. Humor is a learning tool, and let's face it, if you look closely at ANY scripture (or any other piece of literature, for that matter), you're going to find inconsistencies. Books, even "holy" books, are written by men, and when your holy book is a repeatedly translated anthology, you have to expect errors.

Att: Warm Heart, et al;

We are only Humates on Space-Ship Momma/Poppa Earth. AND;

ECLAT+i [without the "i" part is imposible. hence "IT" is innately always inseperable again as usuall as one comes full circle therein and Thereof] is the Hardest "WORKER HOLY" ever imagined, by any, every & ALL "i"ntelligent Humate-Creature-Kinds, Past, Now, future & Beyond!

For Humates to live 250 Years will be, Like "MOORE's LAW" of Computer Chip Limit Capacity or progression estimates, a REALITY!

Humates should not be allowed to abuse "SEX" by over Populating.

Humates whom keep busy or have such "time killing" opportunity's are more "i"ntelligent & usual will or have a social handle, so speak, on their demographics & Economy base.

Note:
Source One, not two, is an Economist. And Source One is a Chemist too.

Source One has an Character awareness & Personality & is Determinate in Nature,

indivisible under IT's Own Law Following Holy Cosmic Orders so to speak. So look who's boss is talking and or Doing right Now!

Ya Ya. Praise Me Genuine Boss. Or OURS Lord G-d, our Holy Cosmic Heart Beat (Creator + "i") .... So who's the boss, US or ECLAT? Wherefore OUR loyalty is Together forever with Source One and there's NO OTHER Boss like IT!

In this sence, Work in an innate need. And Because Nature ITSELF knows that "If no Do, then No Have Power, else go Poof-TIME. [Money & economic "intell" enjoyment, Not HEURISTICAL satisfaction which can never be satisfied.] So;

This is why we innately, via ALL animate & inanimate things, stuff & Laws, abide in Eclat's Nature & Humate nature naturally! Therefore:

Yes, EIGHT-DAY-WEEK will allow people 3 days off or 4. What folk will do then is Volunteer (like being President for a day, and the next, attend a "Votary Association" for the express purpose of Voting on International, National & local, on ALL pertinent Issues that require Attention & Voting with "People Exchange" Apocalyptic results) , via

LOVE for fellow ECLAT-i-On(s) and self and for our Source-One, that is loyaly in,to and of US, forever with Source One in Eclati's Cosmic Holy Heart Beat Awareness. And then the Ecomomy will be conserved & preserved.

And there will be a "Cashless Society" too and more as WE can see the signs of our times now in hint for what lies ahead.

Can you Imagine if folks had to Work Nights [100 Billion folks on that shift(s) alone ] and work Days [300 Billion Eclati-On(s)].

This shows you that "Stored Radiant Energy" will not last {a/k/a "Fossil Fuel".} But for now, there is more to those words. Just like taking "water" for granted, instead of knowing what real "H2O liguid types" are or even "Plasma types" at that, etc. So supply & Demand has IT's limit)s?). This includes "Gene-pool Capacity" or upper Max.Limit, when thinking about IT.

Yes. Thank Eclat-i;

IT's that "Extra Day" [another day another Dollar?] that will save, make or break US. But as an ECLATi-On We will devote & Volunteer {if both Health able] ONE-DAY for every Eight Days.

Two days will be as usual. And If one Eclati Citizen of Space-Ship Earth misses 1/8th Votary/Volunteer Day [V.V. Day] then, like Phone minute, days owed to "Your Community at large" will be "Rolled Over" like, and used accordingly (Dynamic) later. Like make-up missed Public homework assignment(s). Note:

Health & Age is always a factor & "Situational Adjustments" are all considered in Gridarian Democracy. Therefore: VOTE:

(((((((((((((( PEACE-LOVE-Rock-n-Roll, MITT *** R O M N E Y for Prez. )))))))))))))))

Dear Mandy and Edwin, Please stop posting!!! You are intellectual fly-weights who embarress intelligent people of faith. As Plotz has pointed out, when one tries to read Genesis literally, you have to play the suspension of disbelief game because of all the internal contradictions. To put it into Orwell's terms, it's double-think -- holding together mutually exclusive ideas with illogical faith being the glue. The early Genesis tales were tribal recollections of ancient Semetic tales -- from the Summerians, Babilonians, and Assyrians (and perhaps Medes, Hittites, Eygtians, and Susans). When Hebrews set out to write down these old tales, their interpretations of the Epic of Gilgamesh and their wholesale palgarizing of Job, then they sought to interweave old stories as best they could in the 8th-7th centuries BC (if you look at a credible Biblical scholar like Bart Ehrman). Genesis, as such, was not written down by Moses, but a collection of oral stories handed down for millenia and corrupted by people's faulty memories and self-serving politics. If you really think about it, a God who uses the Big-Bang and allows evolution to play out is an awesome God; a God that allows a lowly creature (humanity) to corrupt His perfection from the outset (within a few weeks?) is pretty weak in comparison. Please understand that the oldest parts of the Bible are folk tales. It always befuddles me that literalists are so much more concerned with the relics of folk tales than Christ's loving Word (from the Greek logos which also means logic -- use it as John exhorts us to).

Concerned.....

FINALLY, we agree on something!!

Jacob, 8 day week is fine, but only if I get 3 day weekend.

By the WAY, there will never be an Eclatarian Church. ECLAT is within us and we do not need to worship together. All we need to do is love ourselves, our families and our world. Our Church will be nature, the sky, the clouds, all of which is testimony to IT.

Now please respond to my e-mail

It is my bedtime now since I have to go to work in the morning, Believe it or not, some of us have to do that in order to survive.

All the best to you, my ECLATi-ON friend!

Sometimes words simply shout out loud!!!

To repeat GABY's comments:

"I have read as much of the bible as I can stomach.

I like Thomas's response:

"Posted on May 31, 2007 15:35

Thomas Crosthwaite:

"The Bible was written by men who believeed the Earth was flat, and that mental disorders were caused by evil spirits. End of debate,"

Thank you, my ECLATi-ON Brother! Now, if you would be so kind to respnd to my e-mail I would love you even more!

David,

That is because you don't want to understand. Jacob's babble is no worse than the bible stories.

ECLATi-ONs believe that there is a higher power, a.k.a. the maker of the universe. But it is not the god of the Bible or Koran, or any other ancient texts (a.k.a. the OLD SONG ) we believe that God (not he or she, but IT) is in us and all around us. When we look at the sky or into the mirror, we see IT, and IT it us and everything around us!

The concept can't be any more difficult than believing in the ancient scrolls of men who
where not even literate.

My advice to you is: Stand in front of your mirror, look deep into your eyes until you see your soul, then decide whether you like yourself or not.

Jacob, although diffult to understand at times, makes a lot more sense than 80% of the posters here.

Josevz,

Are you your only member of your religion? I don't think anyone has any idea of what your saying. I see you post on every topic the same babble and it makes no sense.

Warm Heart, I'm attaching this [from professor Arroyos Spool} as a recycle from another thread.

Thanks for being a "Student Of Source One Forever Together in Cyber World & Beyond! Ya Ya Momma!

Eclatarians know that there is Too-much "Religious Pollution" and the Best Solution is Evolution, clock time, but revolution cannot be ruled out in these modern, yet Ancient "religious" thinking folk in theses times too!

So the Best "religious faith based or belief based institution" is the ECLATARION CHURCH so to speaketh! Each will have a huge telescope or be wirelessly Linked via a Eclatarion “Satellite Telescope” array in all Light Spectrum's known!

Eclati-On(s) will have an EIGHT DAY WEEK. Ya Ya Mons.

And our so called Sabbath or Sundays when meeting Brother/Sister & Kids, We will Discuss Astronomy, Bio-Astronomy, Physics & more ALL TOGETHER NOW & Then.

Eclatari-Ons will have Earth-Moon-Mars et al “Space-Forth Vehicles”. We will be the First to have a Church on the Moon, 2030 +/-.

Eclatari-Ons have the Holy Heart Beat HYMS & SONGS and

US Eclati-on(s) have The TEN-FIATS of the NEW-SONG as our "Humanity Doctrine" and the Old Song "Ten Unholy Cosmic Penn Written Commandments" will be Out-Law'd & Abolished!

WE Eclat-ion's can not Only "TALK" (pray introvertly) and "LISTEN" (Extrovertly) " to Eclat [GOD] therein and thereof US ALL, but,

ONLY ECLATIONS, can "SEE" [Holy Elegant Universe is our Pure Constitution & the Clauses of IT )as Eclat+"i" realm, is our everyday Law(s) of OURS inseparable good NATURE) hence OURS genuine lord non-jealous thus fearless "Holy-No-Mon" , The Great Holy real Eclati. Nothing Is External to IT or ITSELF!

And WE Can "FEEL" [Goos Bumps & sensations] this IT or ITSELF in US that is in ALL animate & Inanimate Stuff as US or Things!.

Note: Eclatarian "Votary Association" a/k/a Places of Meetings [Discussion, singing, hugging, etc..] will have, like a stock exchange-Ticker, We will have the "Peoples-Exchange" board and the Peoples will vote, in real time, {my Amalmater , MARIST COLLEGE of the Christan Brother Hood, takes the "Marist Polls",}

Example: If ANY National & International Issue arises, then all Citizens of Space-Ship Earth can see their results, on T.V. etc.., like say, "Should We Reform Iraq?" (y/N?) "Should We Pull Out of Iraq?" (y/N)....

All will have a say so! Instead of 10 million voting out of 100 million, 80 million will have a more true “People Have Spoken” experience, happiness & thus enjoyment in Controlling their institutional reins so to speak.

Besides honoring and upholding CIVIL RIGHTS & HUMAN RIGHTS; WE Eclatarions, will have the “STABLE DEFINITION FACTOR” for Its Law balancing mechanism under ONE-LAW-EQUALLY-FOR- ALL.

Example: No means NO and can never be bent or bribed from, nor even “allow someone to plead-Guilty etc.. (usually applies to Criminal or Situationally Lying cases and Civil too) . SO; Yes is Yes and Yes can never be allowed to become a self serving USURPASION sneaky NO under OURS Laws!!

So if a an ECLATi-On Justice reads the Law to you, it will be in simple language. Therefore ALL or Most LAW LIBRARY Books will also under go a Massive Uniform Law(s) Correction. And Humates will feel better at ease to Think Globally & Act Locally & vis a Vis.

So The ONE-UNIVERE-RELIGION-SYSTEM is OURS HOLY COSMIC BIBLE! Note: this ours U.N. Encouraged Book, will be created both from G-d & Man Made reasoning. Then the age of “END OF HOLOCAUSTS will be ushered in really fast as Prophesied and promised US Humate Kinds via them Unholy Pre-Apocalyptic five Major unholy Religious weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION!

Note: HARRY POTTER BOOKS are much more child friendly [Zero Witch worship ] than them five “Infixus Books” [Abrahamic (3), and VEDIC (2) books].
Ya Ya. <?:+)/

This is Called "GRIDARIAN DEMOCRACY" and IT will BE! Let IT be Said, Let IT be Written, Let It Be DONE! Forever Together With Source One & the Book of O.U.R.S. as Manna and Humanity-Doctrine in Equality for ALL Humate(s) Kind. Here & On other Worlds! Ya Ya.

Ah, life is so Beautiful with Eclati-On Brother(s) & Sister(s) et al!

Important: As worldly companions; Dogs, Dolphins, Pet Rocks etc.. cannot do a miracle Heuristically Transfinite Poof-TIME a-gonna processing in the "Systems of Miracle & Eclat's Work or untiring Cosmic job of doing the "Let there be" Eternity Avoiding loneliness thing Law" through US ALL, via

the "QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT" & Relativity placement phenomena thing which WE all can, in confidence, Rely on, as We always had before, now, future & beyond!

Some folk you can out of the Jungle, desert, mountain, Cave , Island etcc, but sometimes alot of these folks cannot adjust to their real ECLAT"i" . SO;

Jane & Tarzan, Please, just be Good here O.K.! After-All We get to Swing from other Worlds into and out of Others Worlds. Known Here and unknown others in the swing of things via TIME & OURS Holy Cosmic given Heuristic Immortal string or Life Line sort of speaketh Now!

"Shiloha with Sholoma!

J Leopold,

Do you mean our current events of the present time or current events of the times when they were written?

Att: "Warm Heart" et al;

"BLACK-HOLE (S) PIPES" are the invisible vain(s), like in your Aorta (swooshing around), of the Holly Cosmic heart beat having a almost eternal Systaltic Cycle ITSELF or as almost forever Palindrome and thus

one can think of a Black Hole as a Transfinitizing Reality or a miracle circulating the "Cosmic Holy Heme Blood Stuff" of the Universe in and out of ITSELF. ,

a/k/a the Super PLASMATic anti-gravity [Pressure/Vacuum ] Phenomena as Machine or Specialized "Cosmic Organ" that discriminates against Absolute Hot & Absolute Cold balancing via their Vibrations & Photons entering those vain's and valves [SYSTEM] from the Other Side of the MATTER UNIVERSE so to speaketh.

Remember Gaby, et al;

OURS Matter World [Plasma, gas, liquid & Solid [between temperature Ying & Yang like] is in reality the "4th,3rd,2nd & 1st Dimension" but always at 1-Minus Atom Away, from OURS noses so to speak, is the Non-Gravity Place, a/k/a the "5th Dimension" that is Shared with the Great ECLAT+i. Half realm is Invisible & other half invisible! 50/50 is Eclat's deal so to speaketh here today. Ya Ya

AND; WE, in this Visible World have a "Always ON" frequency Common contact with the Great Holy Cosmic No Mon LORd G-D Eclat + "i" (you in IT. It is not a He nor She, just as is as IT in you) SO;

WE Appear between the Reality that is OUR TRANSFINITY (always determinately moving)via the MAGMA-percolation, of which WE came & the PLASMAtriculation of whence await US, when WE Poof-Time IT out of here, that interestingly is hiding in OUR "Frontal lobes & weaves around in OURS Me Me's as HEURISTICALS Photon mist being,

Therefore We exist in the 9th,8th,7th & 6th dimension of Eclats TIME {Temperature Balancing Job of Nature following Clauses of Universe via ALL + US! Note: It was once claimed that Black Holes are like "Cosmic Dust Bowls" and another one was like a Cosmic "Holy Tornado." Ya Ya.

But the Eclati-on's "believes" that Black Holes are the "Cosmic "PIPES" of which ALL matter must eventually Pass through [INCLUDES OURS HEURISTIC stuff that Never was created nor can die) in order to grow into to another Universe, so to speaketh via OURS same Miracle TIME Entropy, just Doing IT's Thing, that's All!

NEBULAE (Star creation Cosmic plasma Wombs) are in turn created or Coalesced themselves via the "Dark Matter & Dark Energy which is the Magma (like for Us Miracle appearing) that Nebulae ITSELF is born from [OURS Genuine great great Holy cosmic Father/Mother] and Source One is Annihilating, creating and then Recreating over and over.

So Into the Black Hole WE[9th,8th,7th & 6th & plus half, of a 5th dimension We go, Then will get Sucked into that great Holy Pipe & We miraculously end up getting spit out [like us being the Fart itself in this Cosmic intestine and proportionately mixed, like an invisible soup so to speak, and then end up as Dark Energy & Matter, Where Needed, according to the Laws of Nature (clause following) of OUR lucky Black Hole(s).

Then OURS "invisible ejecta", the Fart from that black hole that is our miraculous recycled heuristics that We all came from, AND;

Since IT or ITSELF appears as (We now know that This phenomena exists) being part darkly Energy-ised & Dark Matter-ised, and BEHOLD; This is the stuff [At the critical flash point right Temperature] Voula, Then in the Cosmic system & cycle of Miracles, the Nebula e's is Formed. BORN [Ironically the Ocean Womb (Cocoon) We came from and Evolved, Pre Baptized & Confirmation ed, so to speaketh!

And So this is how Dying "Star systems & star forming Systems Evolve over and eternity over again in a big holy cosmic Heart beat that is ours Warmth, Hence GOD AS ITSELF Appearing In and Of US ALL in the Past's, Nows, future's & Beyond tidings of the LORD!

Around and Eternity Around Where We Go, so Nobody Knows where they will next Appear, but at least with Eclat+i awareness WE have Guaranteed Humate Mental Sanity & Socially self healing or recreating ones self & or Institution(s) therein and thereof as OURS Miracle in TIME (heat) Together forever with GOD ECLAT="i"

Note the reason why "ECLAT + "i" is expressed like this is that Eclat, thought as , the "Electric Charge [power thruster following "Let there be.." ] AND IT's inseparable "i" in IT & ITSELF as Stuff or thing is Your inseparable "Static" entity, together forever with Source-One 100%. Ya?

Eeee haaa Ize gots da Gooosssyy Woooosy Bumparino's. Praise the Holy no-mon Eclati in me myself as my Me Me, as "HEURISTICs are like "Glue" (unite force)) for ours ACES World now" (so when WE die, Aces get's "unglued" 9Decay Divide force) [Atomic, Chemical, Elemental (limit in Nature, plus Nature has a unique number as you, e2.71828) in and of ALL! Yhea Babby!

Interesting read.
Interesting comments.

But all in all, I like Mr. Plotz's final sentence that says... "we are never independent of God, but always floating alone, vulnerable, at His mercy."

By alone, I can only perceive that "alone" is somewhat like being "separated". Since if one is never independent of God, then one is never alone for He is always with you. Everything I have learned from my relationship with God/Christ and watching the "religions" (Christian, Buddha, Judaism, whatever) of the world, and comparing them, tells me God is getting a bad reputation. A bad reputation not so much by what He is doing or not doing, but by man's representation, which is sadly to often marred by personal agenda and narcissism. It is written that the fruit of the Holy God is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. So I guess the question is … who wouldn’t want love, and joy, and peace, and patience, and gentleness, and goodness, and loyalty, etc, apart of their life? I would. I do. So I embrace not so much of what mankind represents or interprets of God, but more of what does God have to say about all this? Instead of looking to mankind, I turned and asked God myself. After all, if God is real, certainly he can speak for Himself. And He did. He still does. His answers to me gave me peace, understanding, and joy … as well as sorrow at what I see from those who say they represent him.

If God is omnipotent and his word sacred why does he rely on the writings of men with no knowledge of current times to express his will?

Why use use ignorant spin masters, men dressed in ancient and/or royal garbs when you hold the bull horn?

If God is omnipotent and his word sacred why does he rely on the writings of men with no knowledge of current times to express his will?

Why use use ignorant spin masters, men dressed in ancient desert or royal garbs when you hold the bull horn?

Believing in the Bible in its entirety is certainly easier than thinking. Verses about honoring slave masters as a way of honoring God, stoning to death women who commit adultery, killing children who talk back to parents, killing those people who work on the sabbath, and also killing those who create images to God seem to create questions about the inerrancy of the Bible. If it is wrong in one instance, it can be wrong anywhere else.

Drinking religious Kool-Aid is very much like investing emotionally in a cult. By the way, the Garden of Eden has been shown by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon religion, to have been in Missouri. No, that is not a joke.

Behemoth,

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/behemoth

Here's the definition of behemoth.

Also, here's the biblical definition.

Behemoth - (Job 40:15-24). Some have supposed this to be an Egyptian word meaning a "water-ox." The Revised Version has here in the margin "hippopotamus," which is probably the correct rendering of the word. The word occurs frequently in Scripture, but, except here, always as a common name, and translated "beast" or "cattle."

Dinosaur???? Where does it say that. It says "behemoth". You need to stop listening to young earth creationists.

Edwin says,

ignorance should never be confused w/ faith.

I think ignorance are those who don't have their facts straight. Like I said, if you keep listening to these YEC or these "ask in genesis" supposed "scientists" you will get plenty of falsehood. The Bible says no where that the earth is flat or that Job was with a dinosaur.

So anyway, Edwin, you spoke a little too soon. I think you thought you just disproved the Bible by one little verse that a bunch of knuckleheads would have you believe that "behemoth" meant a dinosaur. And you call me ignorant because I have faith?

Hey Jacob,

Since we ECLATi-ONs go back to IT and the light, where do teh ECLATi-OFFs go? A black hole?

Oopps. Eclatai-ons would prefer to have their remains cremated.

We belive that, besides birthing and Dying too is a big business, That That Tomb Stones are an "Eye Soar" and a Waste of Good Land. Both Urban & Rural.

On the other, It's O.K. to have your remains sent out adrift in Cold/Hot Universe.

Remember: sinc you are a Frontal Lobe Carrying & Heuristical Entity, that; Where Light has never been, then nothing ever was or is. And

so, our Photons are almost infinate, but US Heuristical(s), wherever they may be, here and or on other Worlds, past, Current, future & beyond, is "LIMITED" editions so to speaketh.

In other Words, and in this or other Magmatic Gravitational bound Worlds, that Earth has a MAXimum amount of Humates with Heuristical production. Eclat, via Law(s) in Nature, as clauses of OURS Universe, have a "Heuristical Limit" Cut-Off Switch so to speaketh!

Example: Space-Ship Momma/Poppa Earth, Grandma/Pa Solar, et al, are also going Poof-TIME a-gonna some day in +/- 7 Billion Years! [By then we would have visited, enjoyed or suffered on many Planets having Phonton frontal Lobe carrying creatures]

And so, the race for Mass sexualizing for "Heuruistical Production" (carbon based Me Me's having Dna/Rna/cytochrome P450's, hormones, proteins, enzymes, ionization etc..) HAS A LIMIT or Number!

When We die OUR Heuristical travels faster than Light. And if We only Travelled in Light speed that means that my ex-Zionist "Bio-Finite" Dad {pbu Him with xtra Photons] is at around 1.4 Gazzillion Miles away! (7 trillion miles a Year +/- .

Note: OuRS "Star System(s) Earth" is around 4,98 Billion Years Old! And OURS "Solar System(s) was Concieved by Great Great Father/Mother NEBULAE! So;

Face this reality or just stick your head back into that Dark Pre-Apocalyptic belief System, like Ostrrich hole, of Zero miracle(s) imagined that we are in a "System of SIN " instead Of Eclat+i-On & More!

Believe this Revelation [opposite of kept Secret or Mysterious] or Perish in OURS "Miracle Birth awareness" or not! Together Fore ever with Source One. No Satan [good/Bad] No Angel[bad/good] No Hell place or Heaven Place. No!

JUST OUR TRANSFINITY is What counts, if one truly wants satisfaction in this Miracle now! And Simply try to be Good while hanging out on Space-Shio earth of Many similar and of ALL Kinds.

So Save Your Money Honey [can be used for raising Poor Kids in example or education etcc] and save your folk greaf by cremation instead of Burial arrangements! See What WE Eclati-On's Mean! Yes We Mean Well too. But More so than pre-apocalypti-OFF(s). ya Ya Momma poppas Mons!

I need someone to please give me the bio of ALL Bible authors since they are supposed to have been "inspired prophets". I need to know how they live their lives to see if they were truly "inspired prophets". Forgive my skepticism, but please make sure to omit Moses from the "inspired prophets" since he wrote the following:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

I doubt that an "inspired prophet" would approve for one of God's creatures to kill another human being-regardless of sexual orientation. is there a Christian in this blog that disagrees w/ such premise?? Of course, my point us that claiming God inspires one to write Gospels doesn't make it so. We have to abandon the notion that God spoke through the authors of the Bible.

Also, I ran into this wonderful piece of illogical explanation of Evolution in an "Intelligent Design" website:

"In the book of ”Job” chapter 38:4, God asks Job an important question:

'Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?'

No Scientist was there when the earth was formed or when life began. So any ideas they currently have are only educated guesses.

The only way to learn the truth about how and when life began is to read the testimony of the only one who was there, God himself."

1st of all, we do not have God's testimony in Job's book. The only thing we have is Job's voice, & if anyone believes the contrary, then I am diagnosing you w/ schizophrenia, & you should seriously consider psychological treatment ASAP. Please! God does not speak to you nor me.

Here is the proof to the Black-&-White crowd of believers that Job lived among Dinosaurs in his era (& please bear in mind that this is the main evidence, in the mind of the Christians, that validates "Intelligent Design"):

Job 40:15 Look at the behemoth, [a]
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.

Do I need to say more?? The word "behemoth" in Job's book apparently invalidates the studies of hundreds of scientists; & it proves that Job did indeed lived among the giant lizards. I think my point is more than clear: ignorance should never be confused w/ faith.

I don't understand invisible men, things that aren't clear and were written by men who believed that stoning people to death was OK...and I'm the one who doesn't get it?

David,

I have read as much of the bible as I can stomach.

I like Thomas's response:

"Posted on May 31, 2007 15:35

Thomas Crosthwaite:

Too many words. The Bible was written by men who believeed the Earth was flat, and that mental disorders were caused by evil spirits. End of debate,"

The Bible cannot be viewed as the inerrant word of God, simply because it is not a recipe book on morals or how to live. It is a compilation of history and stories, of varying degrees of credibility. If it were clearly inerrant, and easy to understand, then there would be no controversy on this matter. The fact that a controversy exists is proof of the Bible's ambiguity of meaning--that is the definition of ambiguity. Insistence of a primitive religious interpretation based on ignorance of the world and denial of basic common sense and human perception is exactly what is giving, and has given, Christianity a bad name, and that is what is destroying it--not atheists, or atheism.

David - the Bible speaks clearly to you? You understand what's symbolic and what's not? All pretty easy, you say?

In that case, I think you should write a counter blog to David Plotz's. He obviously has it all screwed up and you obviously have the answers that so many people have been looking for.

Att: D A V I D, C A N D I D E, M A U R I e, M A R y, T O n i o, ANONYmous, YO-YO, Mandy, JANET, DANIEL, W A R M H E A R T, ALL-ECLATARIONS, et al;

For a "Religious Correction" overdue:

Contrary to this Cultist(s) self serving purposes [It's His Web Site & from using "Cruxology" I can feel, more than see, that He has ties to Lubavitch "Fanatical Bollixed Asperants" or their Co-Conspirartor in them off-shore Cyber store fronts et al, and the real one's too]. So;

Bio-Finite Death is not "TRANSFINITE DEATH"!

The Infixus Books Death explanations or their revivals, so to speaketh (In the Spiritual & Literal realm} are ancient and fossilized Rhetoric!!

We are always on the move. And the Eclati-On's ["frontal lobes" [eschatological Safe deposit realm]carrying Humate] unique Heuristic Nature ,Together with Universe & IT's "Clauses" is in-side, out-side & inbetween ALL of US, thus We do not stop!

Example: Brain Never Sleeps. This fact is proof # "ONE" of many Today, not Pisces-Age manmade biblical proof. Hint: When I say "Use Your Heuristical(s)" this non-sleeping (non sin) is your infinite Eclat+"i" truth!

Remember; Your unique Eternal [Immortal] frequentised Heuristical is "SUPERIOR" to your current State of INTELLIGENCE mind which, unlike your own Photon now mist form therein , and like baggage, is left behind here via

a loved ones miracle Poof-TIME a-gonna Moment(s) that is just simply your catterpillar corpse being our Bio-Finite "Carbon Cycle" based Baggage left to DECAY as some flesh jacket.

Eclat, "Let There Be", is Non-Stopable! Wherefore: We do not Lay, parked or asleep in some plantetary ground, next to Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Krishna or Budha et al. and then in TIME they [Not Eclati-On(s) will wake-up & humates will never have to Eat or starve etc.. ever again!

They say, "Believe in Him (not Eclat) or She or you will perish!" [Similar] No!

Fact: We come from MAGMA & WE Go through the "PLASMA VIA the ENTROPY CHANNEL INTERFACE GRID" for another Miraculous Eschatological Possibilities of OUR Eclatarian selves, in ECLAT's SYSTEM OF MIRACLES & in the Eternity Avoiding Loneliness Phenomons as "QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT" "Heuristical Possesing Eclati-ON's (Never Moses, Krishna etc..)

That is all typical, copy Cat "Bibliomanic Word Merchants" talking that "Supernatural & deity nonsence, from one Tribe or village to another, via them old Pre-Apocalyptic Songs!

Eclatarions are Butterflys [have New Song from old] , when they once knew they was catterpillars [Old song sayers] . That is the difference "PEOPLE-WISE".!

Eclati-OFF vs. Eclati-ONs! This will be the struggle (peace-full or not) until WE overwhelmn them via the World Faith Exchange in the U.N. for the creation of the O.U.R.S. Book. a/k/a One-Universal-religion-System NOW.

A great "Religious Correction" & Political Correction" is near and long over due! Hence: G-d consents but only for a TIME. So, like Candaleza Rice telling Iran in Todays News, "IT IS TIME.."

"Let IT be said, Let IT be Written, Let IT be Done!" TODAY so happy Everyday! Note: for every day that passes, or second, this is our Photonical Fossiles left behind in TIME (Temperature, not clock or space-time.).

Therefore: We never DIE! We enjoy Eternal WORLD-HOPPING. And not 72 Virgins, stuck in a static man-made heaven or pear tree so to speaketh!

Please Pick which version of fate or after living is best! The ECLAT-ON way or the ECLAT-OFF way.

Yes, IT's true, ECLAT+ "i" is both the Way & THE LIGHT/photon Way and the right way for your Heuristical salvation, if any! Ya Ya. <? : + ) /

Why would you even want to read a math book to learn calculus? If it's not in the Bible, what good is it? And math and calculus are scientific pursuits, which make them heretical pursuits anyway. Why not just be dumb and ignornat, and just read the Bible, and turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to all else? Why not?

Sorry you have been misinformed, but the Bible has not become the interpretation of man. It has it's meaning and it quite easy to figure out. If you took everything literally in the Bible you would have a God who is an actual physical rock, people should be turning into olive branches, or pieces of fruit as well. Also, heaven would be a mustard seed. Can't wait to get to that mustard seed, I hope they have sunflower seeds too! C'mon, we know these to be symbolic just as easy is it to figure out what else is symbolic. All it takes is study. I haven't been to a Bible study since I was about 6 or 7 years old. The only thing I remember then was being taught that Noah had an ark, and Jesus died for our sins and the such. I don't remember much else. As an adult, I chose to study the Bible for myself. I never consulted any man to help me interpret the Bible. In fact, it needs no interpretation. It speaks pretty clearly to me. What I came to find out by reading it by myself is that billions of people came to the same conclusion over time than I did. No need for a catholic priest or some "divinely" inspired man in any so called organized religion to tell me what it means. God told me by what He wrote. Pretty easy I should say. All it takes is a little study and backing up scripture with scripture to realize true meanings. You can't just read a math book and know calculus can you? No, you have to study it, then you will know how to do calculus. Same goes with the Bible.

When people are told of the affairs of Zeus w/ humans, through Greek mythology, they laugh & dismiss such accounts as, obviously, myths & man-made legends. And of course, we would be correct on dismissing such stories as fables. Of course such myths contain morals, & we are to learn from them. My question, when it comes to religions, is: why can humans do the same when it comes to religious dogma?? Why can't we just accept that it is the moral in the parables of Jesus of Nazareth that we need to learn from?? Why do the take the word of an ancient book literall?? Are we not smart enough to understand that the book is only for guidance?? And that it is not sacred by any means??

I concede that religions are needed to keep some people, mainly ignorant & un-educated ones, walking a straight path. However, the price the masses pay for the help religion provides is a massive brain-f*ck that forces them to abandon logic for dogma/superstitions. I can go on about virgins having babies for gods, semi-Gods walking on water & resurrecting, but I think my point is clear. I believe that if in order for humans to live a "straight" life is necessary to put all their eggs into a Bible basket that tells you that if a man lies w/ another, he should be killed, then your reason, God's greatest gift to us, is wasted.

Too many words. The Bible was written by men who believeed the Earth was flat, and that mental disorders were caused by evil spirits. End of debate,

To David and Anonymous

Maybe your criticism of Mr. Plotz's essay would have some credibility except that you are anlyzing his writing, as though he is serious; yet, it is perfectly obvious that he is trying to be humorous. And it is obvious that you are humorless. That's humor-LESS! Look it up.

Many, Anonymous and David,

Does say, could say, would say, should say, that is all semantics.

The bible says death, not symbolic death, or removal from faith or from god, it says death.

I can't stand having to read behind the lines and interpret what the author COULD have meant. And, if I have to go to bible study to hear some other human explain to me what all that gibberish in the bible means, then it can't possibly be the word of god, because now it has become the interpreation of man.

Anyone inerested on how the bible came to be written, this video will give you a fairly good idea on that subject. It was done by a Christian but his approach is fair and balanced. Please check it out at:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2061773048178434620

Nice job Mandy. I think we can take just one part of Mr. Plotz's analysis to discredit him and show that he really has no understanding of what God was trying to portray.

Let's take his analysis of "death". Literally that could mean someone's heart stopping and all systems shut down and kapoot....your dead. But it is quite obvious that death here can also symbolize a spiritual death as Mandy described. Mr Plotz has a way of cross referencing what he wants to prove his points, but fails to miss any other evidence to take. For ex: Romans 6:23 says the "wages of sin is death". So when I was 7 years old and I said the "S" word, shouldn't I have died right there on the spot? Of course not! If everyone died a literal death from their first sin, then there wouldn't be any human beings right now. Death is obviously symbolic of a literal death and spirtual death in the Bible. Just taking this bit of information and comparing it to Plotz's analysis of the Bible, it's easy to see that this guy lacks any Biblical reasoning. So, if Plotz can't even get this interpretation correct, why should anyone trust him for the rest? He sounds more like a cult leader than anything; taking words out of context, applying his own meaning, and having biblically un-educated people believing in that.

Thanks again Mandy. Keep your faith and pray for those to gain a true understanding of God instead of listening to those whose interpretations conclude in false teachings.

God bless

A guy writes a clever spoof on the inerrancy of the Bible, and the very first reply is a disjointed rant appealing to the inerrancy of the Bible to prove this guy's spoof is wrong, and "Mr. A. Nony Mous" congratulates here on her clear thinking.

Oh please! Give me a break!

All of this gives Christianity a bad name. Voodoo Christianity is not the real thing. I am sorry Mandy, and all the Biblical literalists, but real Christiantiy is emotionally and intellectually demanding, and, I'm sorry, you won't find all the answers, pre-written in your little black book.

Dearest Mandy,

You reassure me that my choice to leave religion was correct. Thank you.

Dear Janet,

David Plotz blogging the Koran even under a fake name is not the healthiest of suggestions--for Mr Plotz that is. Muslims believe the Koran was dictated directly by an angel from God to Muhammed and tend not to take kindly to it being altered.

OK "Not to take kindly" is an understatement--they tend to issue fatwas which mean anyone who wants can kill you, free of charge so-to-speak.

The Bible or the sayings of Buddha will not occasion the same actions, although accolytes will not be hugely amused they won't murder you for saying so--it's against their religion.

Regards,
MC