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Hi All

Weeks after the fray, but maybe someone will notice.

One parallel to consider is the comparison between the 1st Century House churches of Xian Jews and the massive, visible Temple cultus. The Temple was a "mega-church" second to none with exclusivist claims on all the offerings of the faithful - using muscle to extract their 10%. Contrary to Sunday School teachings the money-changers weren't there to trade blasphemous Gentile money for kosher Temple cash. Instead, they converted the humble Judean shekels for top quality Tyrian Silver, since "quality mattered" to the Temple's elite.

OTOH the house churches were largely private affairs that calved-off new churches once a group got too big. Sure they paid their Teachers and Pastors with Biblically commanded offerings, but they didn't erect huge stadium-style buildings to entertain the faithful - the surrounding Greco-Romans did that. And instead of separating themselves from their parent churches (the Jewish synagogues) they were actively engaged in them until the religious opposition grew too strident.

When the Temple was destroyed only the Xian house churches and the synagogues survived. Many Jews were led into a suicidal attack on Roman authority and their "immoral" Greco-Roman neighbours by fundamentalist rabbis who mixed their preaching with politics, gathering under the banner of a violent, political Messiah, Bar Kokhba. In reaction the Romans almost exterminated Judaism from the Empire.

Instead of violent opposition the Xians took a different approach and eventually brought the Empire around to a more humane point-of-view.

Wow, there sure is a lot of "mainline bashing" in this thread. Not terribly surprising, however, given the recent history of fundamentalist American Christianity. As a devout, and active, member of the United Church of Christ I echo the sentiments of this article. My congregation is growing faster now than it ever has before. In fact, we've already added more members this month then we did for all of last year. I find the UCC to be profoundly grounded in the gospel message of Christ Jesus. It is a church which recognizes Jesus to be its head and leader. We live our lives in accordance with scripture, and take the Bible "seriously" and but not always "literally".

The one thing about the mainline churches that the mega-churches will never have is the truly personal attention of a minister. My minister makes herself available at all times. I can call her at home or make an appointment in her office and speak about anything which is on my mind. When my mother-in-law died recently our minister came out (on a Sunday morning) and spent the entire day with our family. She prayed with us and blessed the body. She is there whenever I need someone to talk to. Additionally, the church has given me community and purpose and has become the center of my life.

I feel so blessed that Jesus brought me to the United Church of Christ. The Holy Spirit I found there has truly transformed my life and changed me forever.

Peace and Grace upon all of God's people!!

I am moved to post because I want to add my voice to those that are supporting what Dr. Bass has to say here. I had been practicing an Eastern yoga and meditation path for over thirty years, when I was suddenly drawn to Jesus Christ.

I went looking for a church home where I could worship and share the Christian faith in a community where you were encouraged to engage with the Christian way with devotion AND reason. A community where you were encouraged to examine what our Master Jesus calls us to do as people of God. I found such a community in the local Episcopal church both in the prior community where I lived (Washington, DC) and my present community (Phoenix, AZ.)

So count me in as one of the people ADDING to the population of those attracted to mainstream churches. I might add that my commitment is more than just a Sunday and social thing, but I look for ways to follow what Jesus is guiding us to do. And on occasion it will call for political choices, as Jesus calls on us to care for those spurned and rejected by society and those in need.

Mary Cunningham,

What is the difference between a temple and a church? I know well and good about the beginnings of rabbinical Judaism....the Pharisees were as literal as the Romans and demanded that Jesus be taken out because....yes he threatened their position of power as the educated who knew what was best for all the peasants. Saying that Jesus was crucified only because he said he was king is a falsehood that I refuse to swallow.

Jesus was crucified for educating the masses and giving them access to personally build a relationship with God......where only the high priest at that time were privileged to get close to God because they were able to read and were supposedly highly educated.

Keep them deaf, dumb and blind and you control them for eternity....it’s easy to blame everything on the Romans……but the truth is that Jesus challenged the hypocrisy of rabbinical Judaism that followed the letter of the law but violated the spirit of the law. It was all politics and nothing spiritual.

If everything was honky-dory there would not be a need for Christianity and the Gospel of salvation?

If the traditional churches had not failed there would be no need for the mega churches today. Same thing different day, time and place!

It seems to me that the Christian right really does not emphasize Christ at all. They focus mainly on two areas: The Old Testament and the writings of the Apostle Paul. No one can read Paul's words without recognizing his misogny. He really had very little use for women. They are to remain silent in the church. Paul was extremely judgmental and was always getting into squabbles.

The Old Testament is the law and the prophets. To emphasize the Old Testament is to deny a New Testament. If Jesus was the fulfillment of that which was prophesied, then holding to the law is a denial that Christ brought a new way to God.

The laws in the Old Testament are hard, brutal. Most people would not think of meting out some of the punishments described in those pages. Yet the "Christian" right selects certain verses and holds them up as necessary. If they are necessary, if they apply today, then Jesus did not do what he said he did.

Jesus challenged the religious leaders of his day. He debated them in the Temple. They marveled at him; they were in awe of him. They found him dangerous to the status quo. They followed him waiting for him to break one of the Old Testament laws. They accused him at every turn. Finally, these fundamentalists, these keepers of the law, had him crucified.

So, you churches that emphasize law over mercy, please don't do that in the name of Christ. It does not represent him. Were he to speak to you in person, he would say, "I never knew you."

There is a wonderful retired Methodist minister near here. He is Korean. You can barely understand him and he has taken a church that is in decline and greatly aged. He might not make the difference between flourish or extinction, but he is an incredibly good man. You walk near him and you feel better for it.

He has a garden and he grows vegetables on the grounds. His doors are open and he will cook a dish to take the roof off your mouth if you want to drop by and chat.

There are people like that who will create Riverside Churches in the more remote outposts and they should be celebrated for what they are. Not the end of an age but the pathlight to the beginning of a new one. No 50,000 seat theatre-churchs...nothing like that...just a preacher tending his flock.

There is a wonderful retired Methodist minister near here. He is Korean. You can barely understand him and he has taken a church that is in decline and greatly aged. He might not make the difference between flourish or extinction, but he is an incredibly good man. You walk near him and you feel better for it.

He has a garden and he grows vegetables on the grounds. His doors are open and he will cook a dish to take the roof off your mouth if you want to drop by and chat.

There are people like that who will create Riverside Churches in the more remote outposts and they should be celebrated for what they are. Not the end of an age but the pathlight to the beginning of a new one. No 50,000 seat theatre-churchs...nothing like that...just a preacher tending his flock.

Anonymous suggests that The Episcopal Church (in the United States) is about to be kicked out of the world-wide Anglican communion. I'm not an Episcopalian, though I feel a familial affinity for the Church; I'm not sure why being "kicked out" or simply leaving a body that does not share its theology is a terrible or shameful thing. We've left things related to "Mother England" before, last I checked, when we disagreed with them. We're revolutionaries that we, we darn Americans, and we changed the world in the process. Could be kicked out of some stuffy British Commonwealth club BE THAT BAD?? Sounds tht a badge of honor to me.

Anyway, I believe in the recent kick-up, it's been the Nigerian Bishop who's been on the outs with Mother England, having ordained (consecrated?) a bishop in the United States, outside of his geographic jurisdiction.

Various tushes are up for whackings, and as I understand it, we've been well behaved, agreeing to "suspend" things while everyone fights nice (or, apparently, not so nice).

John 14:6, Glen thoughtfully points out, tells us that no one "comes to the Father but by me." Perhaps Jesus meant "by me" in the sense of "by faith in Jesus," or by having faith in what Jesus said, and living out the highest law in loving God and loving our neighbors. Folks who seem to think it means the former somehow think they get off easier than others, somehow.

Regardless, John 14:6 leaves plenty of room for an all-loving, all-powerful God to "come to us" in any other way God might choose, seeing as how the passage only speaks of the reverse.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

stephen you must have been living in a hole because the episcopal church is about to be tossed out of the world wide episcopal church. it has even been suggested that a master be appointed to make the split civil but the woman running the church in america does not have the power or history to handle this scism.
and no leftist ever considers a sermon to be leftist, to him its the middle of the road.
the episcopal church is about to split.

Freevoice

Where did you read your ancient history? Jesus *founded* a church--there was no Christian church during his time in Judea, only a Temple and the beginnings of rabbinical Judaism.

Jesus was crucified by the *Romans*, not the non- existent church-- because he asserted he was a king, although he maintained "not of this world." However, the Romans were a pretty literal people, this world ornot, just saying he was a king--somewhere--threatened their emporer. That was enough for them.

I wrote the following in response to Rev. Thisthewaithe, a "mainline" Protestant. I normally don't post twice but I think it might be relevant here. John Paul II instinctively rejected the involvement of the Catholic Church in LatAm politics; liberation theology was a liberal, interventionist philosophy somewhat similar to that espoused by many "mainline" Protestant churches.

I tried to explain why.

"In this article Rev. Thistlewaithe espouses the Liberal view that the Church—arguably the greatest charitable institution of the last two thousand years—does not care for the poor.

But John Paul’s argument was with the Marxism and its interpretation of history. Marxism--one of the 19th and 20th century’s political faiths—after reducing all human affairs to a dispute between capital and labour, had borrowed from Hegel the idea of ‘progress’ (towards a worker state, of course). It went on to develop the idea of the selective application of force to the historical process. The actions of the Communists, at least from a 1970’s perspective, seemed to validate this approach. (It certainly appealed to liberals like the Rev. Thisthewaithe decades later.)

But it was a bankrupt code and John Paul would have none of it. His philosophy was both Catholic and consistent. He opposed removing an unacceptable government by force and installing another more ‘appropriate’ one—also by force. He thus immediately called a halt to liberation theology in Latin America. Twenty years later he would just as instinctively oppose another “worthy” enterprise of removing an unacceptable government and installing a ‘better’ one—again by force. This time in Iraq.

The greatest challenge to the Church in Brazil does not come from its abandonment of “liberation theology” which anyway appealed more to liberals of the rich developed world (like Rev. Thisthewaithe et al) than the LatAm poor. It comes from the Pentacostalist movement, *which emphasizes the individual’s personal relationship with Jesus.*

All I can say is thank God JP put a stop to the Marxist-tinged liberation movement. Of course he would earn the animosity of rich women like Rev. Thisthewaithe but their religion is waning in any event."

Paul

The essence of humanity is the spirit not the flesh that eyes can see.
Because people operate by the flesh and their own ego they use the bible and Jesus for political gain. Politics is about power and not all people need that to relate to one another. Politics is dividing people and practicing tribalism....and Jesus clearly had an issue with that non-sense.....he did not divide people by race, color or creed something that people and their politics clearly does.

He understood that all human beings are equal in the eyes of God…..without politics people would be able to live up to the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. I say Jesus was crucified because he was a threat to the church because he did not play the hypocritical game that corrupts and kills the human spirit.

Anonymous notices -- "Two trends, lower attendence and liberal theology. Interesting correlation b/t the two, yes?"

Yes - maybe the liberal churches will wise up and drop the supernatural stuff that so many of their parishioners don't believe in anymore and go straight for Christian Humanism. It may be their only hope for survival.

Religion in this country has become an extremely divisive force in politics. The Christian Right seems to want to impose their beliefs on everyone else, and if one doesn't agree, then one is unpatriotic. Theirs is the "one true right and only way." They have been using the pulpit for years to motivate their members, and the policies they propound do not recognize that our democratic system is founded on tolerance and the rights of the individual to pursue his or her own beliefs.

I agree with Brian. The founding fathers recognized that for a democratic society (such as they were trying to create) to succeed, the church (any church) must be separated from the state. Pluralism is one of the fundamental principles of our nation.

I grew up in a so-called mainline protestant church. I learned the Golden Rule--to care for others, practice tolerance for others' beliefs, and treat others as I would want to be treated. There is not only "one true right and only way".

The Christian Right's political agenda is one of the most destructive forces to arise in American society. Conservatives have a right to their beliefs, but they should not try to impose them on everyone. They are the Shiite Muslims of the US and are no better than Osama Bin Laden, trying to terrorize the rest of us into their point of view. Christianity as practiced by them is a far cry from my understanding of what Jesus taught.

The Republican Party, pandering to the Christian Right, has also lost its way. This administration is one of the most corrupt in recent memory, and no one is protesting. Our right to privacy has been eroded and we are on the way to a fascist state, much like that of Nazi Germany--all in the name of anti-terrorism. And no one is protesting, not even the so-called "liberals" or the Democratic Party. Our soldiers are being put in harm's way in this misguided war in Iraq, just so the oil companies can make big bucks. This war is the most costly in American history, second only to World War II because of uncompetitive bids to Republican cronies to administrer programs. Are the principles of greed an essential component of the Christian Right's agenda?

I agree with Wiccan, Paul, Peter and Brian, and I say "Bravo" if the so-called mainline churches are finally experiencing a revival. It's about time that ordinary folks, who truly care about our country and our democratic principles, have a voice. Faith is a very personal thing, not political, and I applaud the outreach of traditional churches to counteract the negativism and destructive agenda of the Christian Right.

Diana,
I say terrific, and I am surprised and saddened by all the negative responses. My Unitarian Church is also a powerful force in the community, attracting people who are longing for a place where they can find spiritual company without all the hate. But it's hard, since right wingers have both attacked the liberal church and caused those on the left to attack the liberal church, by giving religion such a bad name. It's pretty comforting that the church can grow even under those conditions.....

Thank you, Jake Means. No politics, left or right, should be in the church. Reinhold Niebuhr was very active in his liberal politics, to the point of going to jail, but he believed preaching it from the pulpit would be playing God.

Freevoice wrote: "These friends of mine deal with the essence of humanity much the same way Jesus did. . . exposing the hypocricy of the church meddling in politics instead of offering spiritual guidance to their flock."

I don't know what you mean by "essence of humanity" and I'd like some examples of Jesus forbidding the Church to be political.

Jesus was political. He was a revolutionary, with a distinctly counter-cultural message. It seems to me Jesus spent more time exposing the hypocricy of the church meddling in business interests (e.g., the money changers in the temple) or failing to live up to the commandment to love your neighbor.

I repeat, you cannot separate politics (which ultimately defines how people relate to one another and live together) from the Bible or from Jesus.

It's hard to believe anyone could say that liberals abuse politics in church more than conservatives.

The term "christian right" comes from the late 90s surge of fundamentalist politicians pandering to the social and emotional instability of fundamentalist christians. The term "christian left" only originated as a response to the more obvious christian right.

Liberals believe in the separation of church and state first and foremost. Conservatives, such as Florida representative Katherine Harris, believe overtly that "electing non-christians to office is effectively legislating sin;" an outrageous statement unparalleled by liberal protestantism.

The fact is that the Rove/Bush/Cheney brand of polarized, hostile and condescending politics has met its shelf life and is making way for a massive surge in atheism (those sick of all of it), liberal protestantism (christians who are sick of being angry all the time) and christian secularists in general who are through seeing their faith and religion used as cannon fodder through conservative talking points. People are remembering why Thomas Jefferson said the first amendment existed to create a wall between church and state and they are going to vote with that in mind.

"The liberal Protestant tradition adapts to changing times in faithful engagement with the culture."

This tells me enough engagement with the everything and anything goes culture of death....Oops...blowing with every wind and lack of moral leadership....nothing new under the sun.

"Perhaps if "mainline" protestant churches stopped putting so much time and effort into politics they could win over more people. My wife and I visited several in the DC area while living there and each time we were turned off by the liberal politics that permeated the sermons and activities at the church. Many evangelical churches do not participate in politics directly even if most of their membership is conservative. They focus on the Bible, Jesus, and leading a good life."

You are right on cue....:-)

These friends of mine deal with the essence of humanity much the same way Jesus did...exposing the hypocricy of the church meddling in politics instead of offering spiritual guidance to their flock.

God bless them all....

Oh, I'll tackle the conservative politics that have polluted the faith for the past 20 years or so. When I tell people I'm a Christian they automatically assume I'm a pro-Bush right wing Republican, thanks to the various "Christian" political groups. Thanks a lot, guys.

But make no mistake, I think "liberal theology" is a bunch of horse manure, too. It's one thing to have your faith inform your decisions in life. It's another thing to trade your faith in God for faith in your political cause, on either side of the spectrum.

Religion and politics mix beautifully for political purposes, no matter how toxic the result may be. But make no mistake, the faith is what suffers.

Beware of anyone who tells you (or implies) that God wants you to vote their way, whether it's Ralph Reed on the right or Schori & co. on the left. Zip up your pockets and hang on, because all they are doing is taking you for a ride.

Read "Tempting Faith" by David Kuo for a good look at what happens to people. It's about religious initiatives in the Bush White House and it tells you all you need to know. But also go to any of dozens of Episcopal churches (actually, don't go) and you'll hear left wing politics preached instead of scripture. Pathetic.

By the way, I'm with Anonymous 3:25 PM above, - the Episcopal Church is a train wreck and I'd warrant that more than 35% have left. They keep claiming 2.4 million members but they've been self destructing for the past few years (well, the past 40, really). They've replaced the Gospel with a leftward social justice something or other. so much for "liberal theology". Just as bad as the Christian Coalition.

I don't know what these people posting their schadenfreude-laced vitriol about the Episcopal Church are talking about. I've been worshiping in different ECUSA churches my entire adult life and have NEVER heard an overtly political sermon. Nor has any of those churches ever self-identified as "liberal." But I've been in plenty of R.C., Evangelical, Baptist and other churches where the politically conservative party line is preached and enforced through peer-pressure or worse. Look at what Benny 16 said today about excommunicating pro-choice politicians! While these so-called "Christians" are seeking to exclude more people from the Kingdom of Heaven, every single Sunday I hear the same words from the Book of Common Prayer: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul and with all thy mind; this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it: thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." If that's too liberal for some folks, especially some Virginian Anglicans, I say let them go to Nigeria and good riddance. Just don't expect to take the silver communion service (or anything else) with you!

I second the remarks of Peter and add two more observations:

1) The Bible is filled with politics. If you don't believe this, try reading it again, ALL of it. Besides the Gospels, I would especially draw your attention to Amos, Micah, and James.

2) Numbers of believers do not make right. To cite an extreme example, the majority of the German Lutheran church including its leadership went along with Hitler's nationalistic politics. The minority, including indviduals like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, formed the Confessing Church, which struggled to retain members in the face of Nazi tyranny.

I wish to expand on Wiccan's observation in regards to several comments here. Liberal churches focus too much on politics? Excuse me?! The last ten years of the Republican revolution and the Bush presidency have been all about conservative Christian politics.

These political forces read their bible all right, sometimes for no other reason than to provide justification for the hate filled politics they support. How is threatening to excommunicate members of the church, who vote for pro-choice candidates not political. How is opposing civil unions because of biblical interpretation not political? How is opposing evolution, opposing stem cell research, or opposing anything rooted in science not politicization of religion. You may feel you have the right to believe some or all of these things, but arguements and criticisms that they are not political is ludicrous, hypocritical and dishonest.

So far no post (or maybe one) has been supportive of what Rev. bass has written, but I respect the writers who have at least stayed on topic (and I wish these blogs were moderated to weed out the garbled submissions).

So to Ms. Bass I say thank you for championing liberal Christianity and the mainline denominations. After fleeing the conservative denomination in which I was raised and attended college, I avoided the Church for ten years. It took an intellectually active mainline denomination to interest me in Christianity again. I had always been taught that mainline churches were primarily social clubs with a watered-down theology, and there are no doubt many churches that function that way. But a dynamic and liberal reading of the biblical texts, combined with the community that a church offers, a commitment to helping those around you, and in some cases a very spiritual and introspective liturgy can combine to rekindle the old flame of religious fervor in a person who desires a relationship with the Christian God and His body of believers but who has never been able to subscribe to the doctrine of the infallibility of the Bible.

Quibbling over the Virgin Birth, the exact intentions of the words of Paul, the beginning of the universe, the literal resurrection etc. is a distraction --I believe from Satan--that leads us astray from having the relationship with God that He wants us to have. Liberal Christian churches, with their theological flexibility, allow us to draw deep into that relationship without dividing up the body of Christ into theological factions. Oh, if we would all just praise and pray more and argue less. And yes, caring for our less fortunate brothers and sisters in Christ's name is the highest form of praise, whether it is working at a food pantry or advocating for legislation. And if it gets political, the reason is often that complacent churches and denominations allowed the injustice to happen in the first place or even abetted it. (Slavery and segregation, the two causes for which the church has become the most involved in politics, are Exhibit A. While there were many mainline churches that turned a blind eye to these injustices, most of those that stood up and took action were in fact mainline and very few were evangelical or conservative.)

So let the "social club" mainline churches decline. But those who offer a new way of looking at an age-old faith, whether or not they put that faith into practice via political action, are going to grow, move forward, and perhaps provide hope to a new generation of Christians.

Most on this page have condemned the liberal politics of the Protestant churches, but say nothing of the conservative politics of the fundamentalist churches. Why?

I've never quite understood why this collection of denominations is called "mainline Protestant." Perhaps at one time they were, but today, evangelical Protestants out number "mainliners" by about 10,000,000. Southern Baptists alone number 16,000,000 - more than any one of the mainline denominations by leaps and bounds, and well over half as many as all the mainlines combined. Seems the mainline churches are actually well out of the mainstream of Protestant thought and belief.

My conservative Christian upbringing did not side well my sexually abusive childhood. I tried liberal Protestanism before I realized they they, too, were limited thinkers under the guise of modernity. Not until I abandoned Christianity altogether for a transreligious philosophy did I find the healing and the peace I'd been seeking my entire life.

Sorry, I meant conservative Christians SEEK personal salvation...

Conservative Christianity exists to serve a cultural and psychological void. People who feel adrift in modernity turn to conservative churches to give them a sense of permanence. They decry "relativism" and personal salvation because their own lives are so unstable in the post-1960s world of sexual ambiguity, globalization and community-less exurbia. The exact same phenomenon is happening in the Muslim world and explains the rising support for militant Islamism. It's all about uneasiness in modernity.

But conservative Christianity has become explicitly political, tied inextricably to the fortunes of the Republican Party. With the demise of Christianist Republicanism as a national phenomenon, expect alienated people to move back away from conservative churches. The theological permanence they offer is just as illusory as the "wishy-washy" theology of liberal Protestantism. It's fundamentalism is unable to coexist with the modernity it decries. Just as the contradictions at the heart of fundamentalist Christianity destroyed it after the Scopes Trial, so today will conservative Christianity falter with the self-marginalized radical Republican Party.

I don't know if liberal Protestantism will replace it. My sense is that the neo-atheist movement will entice even more liberal Christians to come out of the closet. But a core of liberal Protestants who seek some higher meaning but reject the reactionary politics of evangelical Christianity will restore the mainline faith in some communities.

I'm glad that 3 examples of small parishes growing clearly and emphatically illuminates a widespread trend in Liberal protestantism.

How about this stat: since 1970, the Episcopal church has shrunk by about 35%. In that same time, it has moved to the left politically and socially. How about that for a trend. Not only has the overall number decreased, but the median age of parishoners has increased steadily. In other words, the Episcopalian church no longer attracts new, young members. Again, to reiterate, this is accompanied by a leftward shift into wishywashy theology. Two trends, lower attendence and liberal theology. Interesting correlation b/t the two, yes?

Study the numbers, not specific cases that prove your predetermined point.

I agree with those who say that on balance, the most political pulpits in America are in liberal churches. I also agree with those who say that folks like Bass have a vested interest in blaming the mainline decline on factors other than liberal theology, while exalting liberal theology as the main reason for the isolated successes she tries to convert into a broader revival. The whole methodology is problematic, and those who read her posts or read her books should understand the advocacy that's driving the conclusions.

What Bass doesn't seem to get is that turning the pulpit into a political rally with some generic God-talk sprinkled on top is no revival. Churches that base much of their preaching and teaching on political talking points (or in the case of Schori and ECUSA, the UN charter of all things) will always find a following. But so what. Churches that adjust to cultural and political winds are building their houses on sand, and this is in fact the reason why the mainline has been in steady decline for two generations and counting. It's the price one pays when one embraces the idea that almost everything is purely situational, and almost nothing is perennially normative. Politics is all one has left to mobilize the like-minded when one chooses to get this imbalanced theologically. This is hardly a revival. And I say this as one who gets no joy out of watching the mainline's self destruction.

can you say liberal propoganda boys and girls? this was a puff piece pretending the left is going along just fine. instead of facts what we get is crap like this:
No study has yet attempted to count how many mainline churches are experiencing new vibrancy, but something is clearly happening in some quarters of liberal Protestantism.
and we get something like this:
Mainline Protestant vitality (denominations including the Episcopal Church, . . ."
the episcopal church in america is about to be tossed out of the world wide communion [the name given to all the episcopal churches] and is currently sueing its own churches in an attempt to steal their parish property.
so there is something happening - and its hitting the fan and you better duck fast.

Liberal Protestantism: a bureaucracy in search of a pension.

As Adam C. said they substitute politics for religion. That is actually anti-Christian. Besides politicians do politics better than religious. (They certainly do it better than priests do politics!)

It's too late for these folks, much too late. And, anyway, we are near the end of the Enlightenment experiment, an 18th century phenomenon. Former Unitarians have become Buddhists, cosmos-worshipping atheists, and militant atheists.

Liberal Protestantism is thus doomed. Christianity will/is already separating into "cold" religions, Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and "hot" religions, Pentacostalism and Evangelicalism. It's too late for those liberal non-Christ believers in the middle.

Perhaps if "mainline" protestant churches stopped putting so much time and effort into politics they could win over more people. My wife and I visited several in the DC area while living there and each time we were turned off by the liberal politics that permeated the sermons and activities at the church.

Many evangelical churches do not participate in politics directly even if most of their membership is conservative. They focus on the Bible, Jesus, and leading a good life.

Perhaps it is harder for liberal churches because they can't always focus on the text of the Bible as a common point so they need politics or issues to unite them (pro-choicers, gay marriage, etc). Whatever the case, it would be nice to find a "mainline" church that didn't take an explicit stance on abortion and other political issues by organizing the "Pro-Choice Methodists," etc.

To reiterate a very important observation:

Christianity will slowly fade from society as will Islam because of the obvious problems with the founders of these religions especially their angelic/satanic hallucinations and related prophecies. "Pretty and ugly wingie thingies" simply do/did not exist. Associating the Singularity with these mythical assistants and opponents mocks the concept of God the Almighty.

The Good Words were articulated via reason and common sense by the ancients. These Words of Wisdom were simply repeated with each major race and religion. Unfortunately the Words were attributed to embellished men in most cases as a means of profiteering as noted by the contemporary billions of dollars owned and controlled by the Mormon, Christian, Jewish and Moslem religions. It is time for a refund!!!!

Most liberal Protestants don't believe the baloney that orthodox Christianity teaches. One might wish they would be honest and leave that evil religion once and for all.

NASCAR? Seriously? What's the point?

What's gonna happen next?

Look! They're making a left turn!!!! They're makin another left turn!! Woowee!!

Protestants do put on a good show: rock bands, big screen video presentations, progressive theology...I think selling used cars and maybe an auction at half time would really help to boost attendance.

Give the people what they want! Amen! NASCAR!

Do you guys have wifi in the pews? I might just stop by.

Hello Jacob, and how are you this fine morning?