All Comments (95)

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/avantgarde/g90/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/avantgarde/g90/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/avantgarde/g90/

I have a question:

If you believe that Jesus (and God for that matter), are so all mighty, powerful, all knowing, great, etc. etc. etc. Why do you think that Jesus (or God) would even be capable of such petty and utterly destructive 'human' traits such as judgement, vengeance and punishment? And how come Jesus (and God) have such huge great big egos? Why does God need to be worshipped? Is he (or she) feeling insecure? Does God feel threatened by some other God? Why on earth would anyone believe that if you don't follow some sort of 'written word' that you will be judged and sent to hell (or worse)? I see plenty of really good people in the world who are doing some pretty incredible things, yet, according to some religions, these people will be judged and punished for not believing in Him.

Sorry Anziano, didn't mean to misspell you name!

Ansiano,

Joseph Smith WAS a snake oil salesman, as far as I am concerned.

I do not believe in organized religion. It is man-made therefore just doctrine to keep the masses in tune with whoever made up the religion.

I believe in a cosmics power greater than all of us but from whom we all stem. IT does not need prophets, etc. to establish its being.

IT is what IT is. No more, no less.

All that is on this earth and the universe is because of IT.

No angels, no prophets, no Jesus, no Mormom, No Vishna, Krishna, etc.

IT is the ultimate power, the light and the parent we have all in common.

IT commands us to be compassionate toward all creation.

Therefore, I can not believe in any human speaking the so-called "divine truth" it can only be their truth and no divine is involved.

Gaby, I had viewed your comments as wise and compassionate... until your post labling Joseph as a snake oil salesman. Wow, what a slam.

Gaby:

Very good answer. You have passed my little grasshopper.

:)

Preston, Joseph Smith was a snake oil salesman, not a prophet.

Tom and Marco Polo,

God doesn't love more or less...he just is and everything is part of him, warts and all.

Hey Tom:

I'll bet you money that Gay culture is loved more by God than straight culture.

Want proof? Just talk to them. A gay man or woman who is not ashamed of their sexual orientation is closer to God than any straight person who would make fun of said gay man or woman.

Besides......people that are the most hateful towards gay people, are closest to being gay themselves.

To Whatever:

Have you read the Bible lately? Commiting homosexual acts is sin...Mormons shun the sin not the sinner...and invite the sinner to repent...just as Christ did. For those who are struggling with same-gender attraction, its tuff, but the Lord has set his standard and with his help you can be strengthened. Just keep his commandments. Saying that sounds easy...it's not...but the Lord will bless you for doing so.

Proverbs 3:5-6 states (KJV) "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding, In all thy ways acknowledge Him and he shall direct thy paths."
I've learned from the scripture that God see's the whole picture--the beginning from the end--if we truly believe in a God tht answers prayers, and manifests his saving truths through the power of the Holy Ghost, why would we need to place our trust in man.
For those learning about Mormonism, study it from the source (lds.org), read the Book of Mormon, and ask God if it is true, and if THe Church of Jesus CHrist of Latter-Day Saints is his restored CHurch once more on the earth, If Joseph Smith is a Prophet...if you ask in faith, nothing wavering, God will tell you in your mind and in your heart. (See Galatians 5:22-23 to be able to recognize the Spirit)
Sure I have had questions, and have doubted things at times, and am still learning...but what I know to be true through searching the scriptures, prayer, and personal experience...is that Joseph Smith is a Prophet, the Fullness of the Gospel has been restored, and that our lives can be blessed because of Christ's Saving Atonement.

Philip Baker,

An Australian Mormon bishop with your same name was disciplined by the church for some imbicilic and evil sexual behavior that negatively affected the membership. Post under a different alias so nobody will confuse you with him.

Love, Sheila

Aaron
Thanks for the response, but i remain wary of the Book of Mormon.
If it is the inspired word of God, no powers, principalities or any man will stop it.
Time will tell us the truth, and it may be coming soon.
As LDS Church and it members begin to step into the world’s spotlight their history and beliefs will come into full view. If the Book is of God all questions will be sincerely welcomed and answered and His word will endure. –God is sovereign and His threshing floor awaits us all, i fear much of what we as Christians cling to will be blowing in the wind on that day.
Respectfully.

Lepidopteryx,

Now if we could only convince the rest of the inhabitants of this spaceship Earth, 9/10th of our problems would be solved.

Gaby:
"IT is what IT is. And we are part of IT."

Works for me. Or as a friend of mine once put it - "Religion boils down to two basic ideas. One - you are a part of something bigger than yourself. Two - be nice to each other. If we would all keep those two ideas in mind, the rest would take care of itself."

Good Morning, Jacob, etal.

My photons shine especially bright today. Must be because it's Friday, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and spring is in full swing.

When will people understand that God did not write or inspire the Bible, that Jesus was just another great philosopher, that all religions are man-made and that no one is a prophet?

God is in all of us and all around us. Not Christian, not Muslem, not Hindu or Shinto or Vishna, or Krishna. Those are man-made.

IT is what IT is. And we are part of IT.

The Truth about Mormonism:

Mormonism is actually based on the plagiarized writings of a retired Methodist minister named Solomon Spalding. Spaulding mused himself writing fiction in King James English in the 1800's at a time when there was no TV or radio. Spaulding's writings were completed about 20 years prior to Joseph Smith supposedly finding the "Golden Plates" in Upstate New York. Many people from Spaulding's local community would gather in Spaulding's front yard and listen for hours to him "preach" into the front yard from his porch. The people's excitement spurred Spaulding to become interested in publishing his "manuscript" into a book.

Spaulding took his manuscript to a publisher in his community. He left it there for review and hoped the publisher would invest in making a book out of it. This publisher has since been directly linked to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, the supposed writer of the Book of Mormon.

The manuscript and writings that Solomon Spaulding wrote were left at the publisher's shop. The manuscript "mysteriously disappeared" after being left in the publisher’s “trustworthy” custody. Spaulding’s manuscript as a complete document has since never been found...

Today, many portions of the original "Book of Mormon" have since been professionally analyzed by many handwriting experts who concur and confirm that they are in Solomon Spaulding's handwriting. The handwriting analysis dates back to the 1970’s. Therefore, much of the Book of Mormon is actually Solomon Spaulding's fictional manuscript.

Imagine, an entire multi-million dollar church/cult has been formed around a plagerized fictional manuscript and an opportunistic man named Joseph Smith. Smith's history and the history of the Mormon church is a fascinating part of American History and one of the biggest lies that has ever been perpetrated on our society.

Anyone interested in getting more information about this should do an Internet search on "Solomon Spaulding" and judge for themselves.
Most Mormons are God-fearing and loving people who have been deceived by years of lies perpetrated by their leadership. I am greatly saddened by it and have a great love for the Mormon people. I have several Mormon friends. They are good people.

Jesus and the writings about him in the New Testament were all prophetically fulfilled in scriptures found throughout the Old Testament, pointing to Him as ultimate fulfillment of scripture and the Jewish Messiah. Christianity is actually the continuation and fulfillment of Judaism.

There is nothing in the New Testament indicating that there would ever be a "new revelation" to follow it. To the contrary, the New Testament proclaims we should not be tricked into following any "New Gospel" such as the one Joseph Smith plagerized from Solomon Spaulding.

Mitt Romney seems to be a good candidate for President. I like his views and his presentation is well put together. At the same time, I am not sure if I will vote for him. His Mormon beliefs concern me because of potential links to dishonest leadership in the Mormon Church. At the same time, I have been much more concerned with our current President's leadership (or lack of) even though I do believe his Christian beliefs are sincere.

I'm curious if the church is growing, what's the retention rate of its members? I read an article on the BBC and it said that only a very small minute proportion of the members are active in the church something very small like 1/3. Its because of the incredibly huge pressures on the members to live a certain way. The Church is also growing cause of the huge birth rate amongst young people who end up having 5, 6 kids. The Divorce rate is huge in the church as well. So all this about growth is a bunch of hooey. Also Mormon's call themselves Christian but is it very Christ-like to shun women or homosexuals and blacks as well? Why the hell did it take till 1975 to get blacks the priesthood eh? Divine Inspiration--no human beings misinterpreting inspiration for their own misguided beliefs and reservations.

Shouldn't religion not put so much pressure on individuals and be so judgemental?

Better to VOTE for a MORMON then to vote for a Moron, No?

(((((((((((((((((( M*I*T*T --- R*O*M*N*E*Y ))))))))))))))))))))

dear DCS ,

thank you for your Christ-centered , positive remarks . Just what I would expect the Saviour to write - not ! with love, :) your MORON friend

ps get a life, bloke !!

dear mormons,

this is all so annoying. but, okay, here goes. . .

when Christ returns for His church at the second coming, you will not be among them. unless you repent and accept Christ, you will NOT be saved, and not just from the first death but also from the second.

and, who was the moron that said the "book" refered to in the book of revelation was the book of revelation (interesting how "moron" and "mormon" are only off by one letter)? was this a bible scholar? i certainly hope not.

the book refered to is NOT JUST the book of revelation, but the entire bible itself. these are called metaphors and are found throughout the Word of God. when we read the Word with a genuine desire to know more about Him, the Holy Spirit will help us to understand what should be taken literally, and what should be studied more to get to the truth (i.e.--Jesus).

Thank you Dr Skinner for your thoughtful comments.

I am an Australian convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latetr-day Saints. Australians tend to be pretty down to earth and pragmatic types of people on the whole. And they usually call a spade a spade.

In the years of my membership I have been taught nothing but Chris-centered doctrines, I have been taught to love others even if they are not kind to me, to turn the other cheek and also taught that families are forever, which has inspired me to live a better life.

But I read some of the comments above about the LDS faith and just want the "anti-mormons" to know that I think they are really wacko and soo sad !!!

Just the tone of their writings lead me to believe they are ignorant imbeciles, who have no interest in Jesus's teachings of tolerance and love to others who wish to take another path. But alas, I err in even coming to and expressing this obvious conclusion. Get a life youse blokes !! onward and upward all who strive to live as Jesus taught.

Mark M. I sure enjoyed your comments. I've often thought the same thing. If somehow I learned tomorrow that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was not true. I would still belong. There was a time when I studied the teachings of many churches. Took caticism (spell ?), became a member of a protestant faith, but eventually became active in this church. There is no other church which challenges an individual like this one, always trying to make me better. Teaching me to love all, even my enemies. Teaching me to serve others unselfishly. Teaching me always about the Savior. Everything is based on the Atonement. I love the teachings of this Church. I do have a testimony. No one can tell me I haven't had the experiences I have had with the Spirit. No one. I do know these things are true. I won't argue with anyone about it. It just is what it is. I'm glad I never come to church and hear our teachers and leaders bashing other churches. It simply never happens. Anyhow, I would only go to this church. It helps me want to be better every week. My progress is slow, but sure. God bless all of you.

G.A.

sorry charlie....whatever spin you want to put on whether mormonism is mainstream christianity doesn't work with me. Ya ya ya...we got a great Mormon Temple now where I live and I was given a tour with my little blue paper booties on since I am a "gentile" and unclean. At least they didn't rip all the carpet up like they did in another Temple in our state....what a waste of material resources.
Oh and by the way, since you don't believe in the Holy spirit I am not sure how you square that around with the Bible...how do you??
Your church says Church of Jesus Christ, but do you really believe in his perfect divinity or was he just a man according to your teachings?

I've read all the comments on this blog and it seems that everyone is trying to convince the other that they're right and the other is wrong. If any of us are true Christians (followers of Christ), would we do that? The name of this blog is called "OnFaith". What is faith? A belief in something that is not "known". Were any of us there when Jesus lived or heard first hand what he said? No, we read words in a book written by men who said they were there. We either accept it or don't based on faith. Were any of us alive at the time of Joseph Smith? Did we witness first hand the First Vision when he said he saw God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ in a grove of trees or the Angel Moroni handing over the Gold Plates? No, we either accept it or don't based on faith. If he was a false prophet, then those of us who profess to be Mormons or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, have all been brainwashed. So what! Isn't what really matters how you live your life, treat other people and try to emmulate the good in whatever you believe? I know bad Mormons and Catholics who are saints. If our works are good then maybe brainwashing isn't so bad. Why do people care how much or to whom I pay my tithing, which by the way, was an OT principle? It's my money. If Gordon B. Hinckley spends my money on something he's not supposed to then Christ, who we believe is the head of His church, not a man, will strike him down or at least he will receive some earthly or eternal punishment that is not up to me. It makes me feel better and I do it because of my faith in a higher being and because I believe I'm being obedient to His laws. After all, look what has happened to so many "men of God" who have misused their congregations sacred funds. It seems like it keeps coming back to what I've read a lot of tonight, "by your fruits ye shall know them". Whether Christ was talking about the "true" church or "his disciples", I don't think it matters in the end. If we're truly his disciples (follow Christ's example), of loving everyone and treating everyone equal, then does it matter what church we belong to? Churches provide structure, outward ordinances and leadership. If my thinking that I belong to the "true" church makes me feel better, why do I care what anyone thinks or how "mainstream" we are or aren't? It doesn't matter because the church will continue to grow and people will still scratch their heads and think the Mormons are crazy or brainwashed or not Christians and it won't change one thing. Some people are just bitter and angry and want others to be miserable like themselves. When the Saviour comes in His glory to reign personally upon the earth to usher in the millenium, will we question what is right or who's in charge or will every knee bow and every tongue confess that he is Christ, the Son of the living God? I know what I will do. I know He won't put up with all this contention. So, in the meantime, I have enough trouble trying to love Him with all my heart and treating my neighbor (wife, kids and co-workers)as myself, to worry about much else. It's late and I'm going to bed.

Att: M A Y A N ELEphant et al:

Job Wanted: "Beer Taster" and or "Condom Tester"!

Please reply anytime.

"...Hugh Nibley, ...resurrected" or you mean POLYGEMY Erectionated (?)>

<?: + ) / Ya Ya. Good Night or Good Morning take your pick now!

Polygamy Porter,

How did you love that projection that there would be 60 million members in 2030? Did that one crack you up real good?

Speaking of FARMS, Hugh Nibley has been resurrected, and he is here with us today as Jozevz.

Old McMaxwells FARMS is a so damn amusing I can hardly stand it. Midgley, Peterson, this dude here, all of them are just peachy.

I just dont get what is so difficult here. Mormons can go anywhere, work anywhere, be anything they want to be, except beer taster or condom tester but who gets those jobs, and yet, there is this whining about not being mainstream or being bullied. so bizarre.

This is what is so messed up about this whole debate - this skinner dude takes the bait. If Mormons were mainstream, legitimately, or if they were entering the mainstream, the answer to Sally Quinn's question, by Otterson and this dude should be this:

Yes. We are mainstream already. There is nowhere we cannot go. There is no office we cant hold. There is no profession that does not include a Mormon. We are welcome in every University in America and throughout the world. We have members in prominent positions throughout the world, including academics, politics, sports, entertainment, medicine, law, the military and more. We are everywhere so we are mainstream. We look forward to doing more and going more places. Our mainstreaming effort is internal, meaning, we are building better citizens. Thanks for asking the question.

And, like him or not, I suspect Porter likes the dude less, that is how Joseph Smith would have answered. Then, he would have gone out and smashed up any blogger that disagreed with him. But still, this wimpy whining crap would have had no space in his brain or in Brigham's vocabulary.

Part II

Look at where the majority of the tithe paying LDS members live.

Intermountain west. Major race: Caucasian(aka WHITE)

Average annual income of white west-intermountain LDS member: $50,000. Annual tithes: $5,000.

Average annual salary of Mexican/Southern-American LDS member:$500?(being generous). Annual EXPECTED tithes: $50.

If you ran a spiritual members only club and the white folks where paying dues 100 TIMES that of the Mexican/Southern-American, which race would you appoint as a spiritual leader? A WHITE GUY OF COURSE!

So the LDS church can afford to lose 100 members from the poorer regions of Mexico and South America for each white member from the intermountain west. The ratio is probably higher like, 200 to 1 as many third world members will tithe less than $50/year, if not substantially less, on average.

IMO, the non white, baptisms performed outside of the US serve one purpose and one purpose only.

When these white $5,000/year members gather in SLC or around their TV sets in the intermountain west, what do they love to hear? GROWTH! Because Joseph Smith said the church would roll forth and eventually FILL the earth!

So when the president stands and spouts off the STRONG growth and total of 11, 12, 13 million STRONG, it excites the white members and they happily keep paying their $5,000/ year membership dues.

Note the use of the word baptism and not member.
Mormon statisticians count baptisms not active members. And they must, otherwise the white folks in the intermountain west might lose their zeal and stop paying their temple dues of $5k/year.

It is easy to reconcile. The OT, NT, Koran, and the Book of Mormon were written by humans for humans. None of it is inspired by the Singularity.

Oh wow, another official from LDS INC assigned to come here and PARTICIPATE!

So then, the LDS church is growing? And over half of the membership is outside of the US?

Hmmmm, you would not know that by looking at the top leadership. Oh yes, you do have that newer German fellow, but he represents the area of the world where the LDS membership is actually SHRINKING... do you have any south american or Mexican representation in the "12 Apostles"? NOPE.

Hmmm why is that? The supposed largest block of non US membership, and the fastest growing segement is Mexico/Peru/south-American. Yet when it was time to appoint new Apostles, did they appoint a Mexican or south American? NO, two white guys.

Why? Stay tuned and I will tell ya.

Att: Anonymous et al:

That nasty word, "P.r.o.s.e.l.y.t.i.z.e." will die !

That is: Then the day's of the Great Holy Day a/k/a "ECLAT "i" Day" are realized in 190 years or less.

Thanks to the creation of the O.U.R.S. a/k/a One Universal religion System via the only ONE united "OUR-BIBLE".

Notice The SINGULARITY, This is only possible in the U.N. Mandate that is DUE TO BE OUR PROPHECY as revelation coming from the "PHOTON/LIGHT BRINGER."

"Sholom is "Shiloh" The Eclati is realized, The Eclati is already Baptised,

And LIFE/PHOTOPNS already have been, Pre confirmed for us, by Natural Law and Zero ancient Pre-Apocalyptic rituals, contrary to such Laws of the Universe which Laws of Nature are IT's (g-d) Clauses therin and therofe in ALL!

Every One will finally have O.U.R.S., the Equality and no hastling over a name for a religion faith, instead of different flavor(s), as if selling Ice Cream, ever again.

proselytization will die some day naturaly, via the great ECLATi and IT's EClati-Ons who fought many battles to vreate this inevitable wonder, that ALL so desperately need NOW! et al. Fear Not! Eclati is here in you now Brother and Sister too.

As a former Mormon, I am frequently saddened by the faith stories told by those in authority at the Mormon Church. Your column is no different.

As you penned your words, I wonder about the thoughts you had going through your mind. When you characterized those who make the charge that Mormonism is not Christian as being ignorant, illogical, unfair or disingenuous, aren’t you being the same? It’s hard to imagine that someone in your position has not heard the well-founded, concisely reasoned arguments from any Christian apologist. But your statement pretends no such valid arguments exist. And in so pretending, you show yourself to be someone who seems to be ignorant, illogical, unfair, or disingenuous.

I’m sure you recognize that many folks who read your column will be completely unaware of the huge body or research that’s available – much of it from Mormons – that demonstrates the deep problems with the Mormon faith. So it serves a good purpose, albeit deceptive, to pretend such information does not exist.

I encourage the reader to learn more about the character of Joseph Smith. Smith originated the practice of polygamy very early in Mormonism, and nine of his first 12 wives were married women. One of his wives was 14 years old. Many folks would consider these facts alone sufficient to say his religion cannot be Christian. Google the words, “smith nine 12 married polyandry” for more details. Dig a little deeper, and you'll find that Smith went to his grave publicly denying his involvement in polygamy to the end. Can anyone name a Christian religion that reveres a leader who unrepentantly engaged in serial adultery and deception from the pulpit? The Mormons are free to worship as they see fit, but this just isn't a faith that in anyway resembles that which was taught by Jesus.

Please also examine the scriptures of the Church. The Book of Mormon claims to be a true historical record of inhabitants of ancient America. But no person, place, event, city, or any other evidence for any element of the book has ever been located. To the contrary, the evidence consistently shows that the book cannot be true. Here are a few good Google searches: “Book of Mormon horses” “Book of Mormon Silk” and “Book of Mormon chariots” (None of these things existed in pre-Columbian America, but the BOM claims they did).

In 1835 Smith purchased some papyri from a traveling mummy show and proclaimed the writings on the papyri to be in the pen of Abraham. He claimed to translate the papyri into the Book of Abraham that is LDS scripture today.

In 1967 these papyri were rediscovered in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Upon close examination they were found to be pagan funeral texts – of the sort that would accompany a mummified body. They have nothing at all to do with the translation Smith provided. Google “Book of Abraham mummy funeral text.”

And most importantly please examine the claims surrounding Jesus. The (true) Christian faith believes that Jesus is God who “took on flesh and dwelt among us.” Mormonism reduces him to one god among a pantheon of gods. The Bible declares that everything in existence was created by Jesus. Mormonism claims Jesus is our “Elder Brother” and Lucifer is one of his brothers too. These two descriptions cannot logically be the same being.

So, Dr. Skinner is the director of the Neal Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, but finds all individuals who claim Mormonism is not a Christian religion to be ignorant, unfair, and disingenuous. Perhaps Dr. Skinner should either be a bit more honest in his description of Mormon detractors, or revisit his studies of faith. Better yet -- Dr. Skinner, will you join me and thousands of other former Mormons by renouncing the terrible deceptions of Mormonism and surrender your life to the one and only true savior, Jesus? You cannot serve two masters.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

I am having a difficult time understanding the frustration of many of the Mormons who have posted their feelings on this site over not being considered Christians. There seems to be a double standard in place here. The reason I say this is that I consider myself a Christian. However, I am not accepted by the Mormon missionaries who live across the street from me as a 'complete' Christian. We have met together many times to discuss our faiths and they are very intensely trying to pull me away from the protestant church I currently attend and have told me that I need to join and be baptized into the Church of Latter Day Saints. Maybe if the Mormon Church would stop trying to proselytize other Christians, they would be accepted into the larger mainstream Christian movement themselves. If they will not accept other Christians as they are, how can they expect to be accepted just as they are?

Att: 4th Watch et al:

Here is a Transfinite "straight Answer"

Dynamic Excitement {extravert] Vs. Stagnant boring [introvert]. Same old Song or NEW SONG? Take your pick in this Aquarius Age!

On Adding or Subtracting, This is the Question, Ya?

I'm amazed 5th Watch; how the answer is right in front of your Heruistical budds to grasp.

O.K. here is the outcome of adding to something, after the Fact(?) and then knowingly subtracting from that something or fact,

Example:
"Let There Be Light" and "Let there be Night" Now;

4th Watch et al; Can this be applied to the "New Song" and inscribed, as a legitimate Part, or inserting this self evident True Fact (Physic & Science Friendly too) permanantly or wove this into the O.U.R.S. a/k/a One Universal Religion System?

Example:
If Moses opened a sea with a stick, then this, part of an ungodly story, as if ALL? be history and blaspames truth, should be LOBOTOMISED and purged from such non sense today and not fit for Modern heuritics consumption in OURS Miracle on Space-Ship momma Poppa Earth and Beyond.

Example: "Drunken NOAH" [according to Moses pen not G-d's, He got poopooed faced and when he got up he "cursed his kid(s)" [not moses's if any] all because of Moses's "sexual Guilt" hangups instead. And Thus "Division of Nations Culture tradition, especially breaking Love.

Hence Terrorism is hatched or born not just in ABLE & Cain [Butcher/Farmer] jealous G-d Inheritence Story. {Girls, Gold, Eclats throne etc) that was born by Moses, the NovelStar!?

Four QUESTIONs: 4th watch et al;

1) Did Rabbi Jesus really Walk on Water?

2) Did Krishna & Vishnu realy Take a Chariot Ride to other Star systems in space or visit, by conyrolling his or her own Raigns , Briddle, & Chariot in Life?

3) What are the "Mothers Names" of Both ABRAHAM & NOAH respecfully?

4) Who is, according to Moses et al, the biblical "JOKTAN" (United) a/k/a "Katan" {Arabic Legendary People like US.] And who was his half "PELIG" (Divide) a/ka direct descendents of moses, Jesus & Abraham & not Joktan?

This dialogue is called {On a sample Level} FAITH-EXCHANGING.

And We must Establish, via U.N. a Manditory Body or Assembly of elected or trusted "Faith-Exchangers" in order to Heal the torn HUMATE Peoples & ALL Nations for a CORRECTION OF SIN in scriputers Past, present , future & Beyond!

P/S.: As long as there is Temperature and no Zero kelvin, then LIFE is on the move, born free like, and is always DYNAMIC. hence is adjusts to change which is another part of Evolutions Character in Nature via Clauses as the LAWS coming to ALL via the Eclati of the UNIVERSE ITSELF!

Yes: Any faith must do a lobodomy so to speak! or cut out the cancer. or else being left behind the economocs of their TIME!

Alvin Toffler "Future Shock" is a taste Bud beside Perestroika Glasnost Idealogy that after 86 years went POOF-TIME. This is predicyed for todays Jihadist mided Mishiginnas too. Their Apocaly[se is here noe, they know not IT (Eclat) but like a baby comming out finally of the Comfort in resistence. All this is R.E.V.E.L.A.T.I.O.N. who's TIME have Come NOW!

Change or adapt in your times and you will adjust and continue. If you do not change then you will loose. One can no longer go against Nature.

"Sholoh" is SHOLOM! : = ) /.

God never said HE Himself might not add more to what He has previously said. Indeed, the content of the bible was issued to man by God over many centuries. At what point is this "adding"? And by whom? The prophets? He gave, then gave more and never did He say He would ever stop giving. If you cannot accept that the Book of Mormon is of His origin, I can understand your problem. But if the Book of Mormon is as we LDS believe, then it is presumptuous to claim that God Himself may not add to what He has already said--for as long and as much as He sees fit.

That is as straight as I can make it. Thank you for contributing an element of intelligent questioning to this really bizarre thread.

Just an honest question looking for a straight answer.
Scripture tells us adding to or taking away from God’s inspired word is wrong.
LDS have added volumes.
How do you reconcile the tension this creates?

Att: L E P I D O P T E R Y X et al;

Hello Cyber Friend:

N.O.M.O.S.T.E

TIME=T.e.m.p.e.r.a.t.u.r.e. not Man-Made clock time is why WE and OURs are!

Shook-Rea! Choloe Jowl Um Bobeway! Tekae Hae!

: + ) / eeeee Haaaa Lord G-d Oh Mighty Mon! Ya Ya.

Att: T.E.R.R.Y et al;

WE come from; the Pre-Magmatriculation which is the Eclati-On's [O.U.R.S. 5th Dimention Place of the DUE TO BE] and this is the "Non-Visible" Photo Frequency realm. AND;

We GO to; The Post-plasmatriculation "Visible-Photon" Frequency other side of same 5th dimension realm of the Due to Be.

So we both must never deny that fact of your Transfinity now is in Miracle doing the TEMPERATURE thing of and within your infinite Heuristic Photo of your eternal Me Me in ALL.

Many of Eclati-on(s) know What alot of the riddles of the Cosmic Truth is Vs. they having ancient non God made riddles to decode, thinking as if truly from their very own Eclati.

ya Ya Sister(s) & Brother(s).

Thank OUR Eclati G-d Almighty.

Let There be Photons/Light always!

Gracious! This thread seems to contain a most marvelous assemblage of postings containing no substance or meaning whatever! The LDS Church has nothing to fear from anything or anybody, since God has promised His work will never fail. Indeed, its enemies have always done more to foster God's work than they could ever wish to realize. But if the above postings are at all representative of the best Satan can muster in opposition, we who know and love God's church can only--in politeness and consideration--attempt to suppress our boundless mirth.

Att: J.O.E et al: Interesting!

Thankyou For "Mr. Don Lind". Thanks again me fellow Americanos.

Att: KATAKAHA et al; Thanks for meeting your Eclati-On half Way!

Att: B C U R T I S thanks on "Reloigious Economics" remind me of Christian Science 102 et seq. Ya Ya.

Praise O.U.R.(s) in your "Lordi-Eclati" and Zero Humate(s) God(s) nor a Man or Women but an IT in and of ITSELF to and from the DUE TO BE [5th Dimension side of your one special spectral place]

Let me sum it up this way.

My invisible useless god is more powerful than your invisible useless god.

So there!

On The BURDEN OF who's PROOF & "Bennefit Of the Doubt" [By Gabby et al].

Science has more to say about discrediting ancient Pre-Apocalyptic faith based SYSTEM(s),

Then the ancient [PISCES-AGE] instead of The [AQUARIOUS-AGE] Religious has little to say about Science(s) 3 Clauses: To Know; In Order To Predict; in Order to Control. A/k/a The Scientific Method.

The Proof is in Your Pudding {Photo Finite Carbon Sodium based Eclati-On Self] being in Miracle & Zero Jealous or fearing SIN???!

E.C.L.A.T. "i" is my LIGHT in My PHOTON to Be in Eternity via Wrmth of Eclat ITSEL via a Cosmic Love in Harmonic Vibrations!

Important:

Eclat; Lives in. the 1st,2nd,3rd, & 4th Plasma Interface of the ECLAT-SIDE in the 5th Dimension part or the other side of the DUE-TO-BE so to speaketh. AND;

WE; Live and Appear in the 9th, 8th, 7th & 6th Dimension MAGMA Interface going towards and away into the otherside of your Eclati Dimension that is also on the 5th Dimension Non-Gravity Place. And;

IT (Eclay g-d) is there [5th spectral Frequency String Channel] waiting on "WHAT TO DO NEXT" in Eclat's Eternal TIME Machine. Ya Ya Mons a Mono's.

P.S. Norrie (If) or Adrea (if) No Teasing. Just joke . Ha Ha, Enjoy your Miracle.

"Shiloh" is Sholoming around today! Chow!

Former astronaut Don Lind is LDS.

See http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/lind-dl.html for his NASA bio, or google Don Lind for more links. There's even a book "Don Lind, Mormon Astronaut" (I haven't read it).

Karen,

Thanks, but no. I knit. Knitpicky is what I am.

Jozevz,

You've gone nuts on this thread. Is it because you're a Mormon?

Please, take your GABA pills and relax. You'll like it.

Thanks & Best Wishes!

"ignorance, flawed logic, unfairness or disingenuousness"?? Uh....the burden of proof is not on the Christian who accepts historic/orthodox Christian doctrine, but rather on those who reject it and attempt to redefine it. Bad form Mr. Skinner, bad form.

Att: V I C K I DOUD, et al:

The "FORE-RUNNER(s)" have come for "SHILOH":

"THE PHOTON/LIGHT BRINGER" Of GRIDARION-DEMOCRACY & BEYOND FOR ALL-HUMATES! NOW!

HARK: Brother(s) & Sister(s) HUMATE CREATURES;

Behold: ((((((((( IT (Eclati) is T.I.M.E.! )))))))))))

Sholom in Shiloh always via E.C.L.A.T. "i" [The

Brilliance Bursting Forth part of

O.U.R.S.]. As Eternity Avoiding Lonliness in TIME!

What does Mormon Economics 101 have to do with anything?

Yes, I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and I do give back the Lord 10% of my income. I have been blessed greatly in my life, and I have never been in want. I have a strong testimony of paying tithes to the Lord.

The church has always been a good steward of those funds that I've given.

I resent those who say we are not Christian! I have the privilege of teaching the adults in my ward/church every week. I've also previously taught the youth in many capacities! The message taught is always one that will lead you closer to Christ! That is the goal.

For example, last week the lesson was on the woman brought in adultery before Christ (John 8)and asked whether she should be stoned. Christ says that He who is without sin cast the first. Well, all of the accusers left, and Christ told the woman to go and sin no more.

A lot of times in this story focus is put on Christ's love for this woman. But I brought out how Christ also showed his compassion and love for the accusers! They were setting him a trap, and He helped them find a way out without causing further injury. Oh, how I wish I could learn to be as loving and kind to those who accuse me!

We as LDS try daily to become as Christ in all of our dealings. We love Him, honor Him, and know He knows us personally. I have felt His loving arms around me many times in my life. He is my Savior, Lord, and King!

Vlad

Regarding the acceptance of Mormons as a mainstream religion, I think that the Book of Mormon (which is described as a "Second Testament of Christ") may present a problem. Ya! Why?

Not only the fact that Mormons have this Book and consider it a sacred text, but also some of the content of the book itself seem problematic.

Lets us examine the New testement. Do the Jews who have always had the Tanach or the Book of the Law accept the NT? NO! Why because they think chrisitanity is problematic? Along with their notions of a Messiah. And get aload of this the NT has been under constant critique from the early twentieth century of the existance of such persons as Pontias Pilot and other characters in the Bible and their are some who still debate on the story of Jesus trial in veiw of the lengthy legalistic nature of the Sanhedren court. Problamatic the whole bible is problamatic and nare any theologan is going to stand up and say that he knows for a fact that there aren't problems with the whole thing from book one to book 66. Throw in the BOM and the Pearl of Great Price not to mention the Doctrin and Covenents which is their version of Modern scripture with it. The problem isn't the book... its your faith man. Only a doubting Thomas would deny what his eyes behold. Don't worry you don't have to beleive them. You just have to leave them alone except that they exist and be nice. Oh and remember a wise man that used to judge on the Sanhedren once warned his jewish fellows in court.. "We dare not stand against them lest it be a work of God and we should be proved to be fighting against God. So let us test the time it takes them to remain.. if it be false they will go away soon enough." memory fails me who it was that said it but he as a smart guy. Lets see now LDS have been around now for 176 years now. Hmmm I think its safe to say despite making a martyer out of their first prophet a tactic that all but gauranteed the movements momentem thank you very much. They aren't going away any time soon either.

A word in history about the notion of a world with a one religios fusion is that it doesn't work. The RCC is a direct result if nothing else a sordid attempt at marrying a sect of christianity with religons that prevailed in the land.

Constantine did this to keep sectarian violence to a low roar and seek to unify his people. It did not end wars, or secterian squables because the very nature of people had not changed in any way. So today making the world one religion will not stop world wars. There are plenty of religions out their not guilty of blood spilling and sectarian violence, that remain unique and individual. That we can maintain our individual identity, and respect others isn't so much as tolerance but accepting that which you cannot change about others. I don't embrace watering down the character of peoples faiths by emalgamation but I do promote that we need to acknowlege we need to seek out to know each other better and rejoice in our distinctive ways rather then fear it. If this sounds to Vulcan for you to understand it probably is. IDIC infinite diversity in infinite combinations. Live long and prosper. \\//

I think true to all the facts on the aforeposted Mormon test. Plus, don't forget the billions of dollars that have been donated to non-member humanitarian causes. I love donating to the Church - there is practically 0 overhead because the vast majority of the work is done through non-paid "callings" and no one personally benefits financially along the way - that is also a thoroughly investigaged fact.

Att: ANDREA, VLAD, Chris, Kathy, Warm Heart, Concerned The-Eclati-On now Liberated, et al {wow}:

(((((((((( T.H.E. ** B.O.O.K. ** Of ** Transfinity )))))))))))

Transaltion: Your Miracle Coolo on the Constant Move via a Holy Cosmic Religious essence or PHOTON feeling(s), AND;

ALL this Appearence Act is Determined via your own Cosmic Holy Heart Beat in Harmonic Convergence via the Universal PALANDROME of Your Self,

doing and being the thing as a miracle of and in ITSELF (Eclati Particle thing & stuff) or IT (g-d in you you in IT's frequency Light Spectrum Channel).

"THE BOOK OF R.E.A.L.I.T.Y." [Same]. <?: + )'

Andrea, did you mean "nitpicky?"

Regarding the acceptance of Mormons as a mainstream religion, I think that the Book of Mormon (which is described as a "Second Testament of Christ") may present a problem.

Not only the fact that Mormons have this Book and consider it a sacred text, but also some of the content of the book itself seem problematic.

Recycled Material:

QUESTION:

Is there ANY Mormon(s) out there, that are ASTRONAUTS?

On Voter(s): Better Vote for MORMON then to vote for a Moron instead Right!

Life is so beautiful with the ECLATi in ALL!

<?: + )/

Ya Mons a Mono's.

Mormon Economics 101: True or False Test #1

"The Mormon Church collects at least $6 billion a year from its members, and generates at least another $5 billion in sales from its various business enterprises; total church assets exceed $30 billion. (At least 100 companies are controlled by the Mormon Church, and some estimate its total annual revenues in excess of $20 billion!

The church also owns 18 radio stations in the U.S.) Part of the Church's income goes to operate an elaborate internal welfare system so its members avoid any governmental assistance.

The Mormon Church also has a 58,000-plus missionary force working in more than 160 nations in 102 languages. The Church's Provo, Utah, 26-acre Missionary Training Center receives 500 new missionaries a week into its 3-9 week intensive missionary training program. (All boys, once they turn 19, are expected to dedicate two years of their lives to missionary service.)

Fielding missionaries is a $500 million per year effort and currently reaps more than 300,000 new converts each year. (The missions also serve to mature and bulk up BYU football players).

Nevertheless, only about 46% of Mormons attend a church meeting at least once a month. (The clean-cut image that Mormons have attained has been a major factor in the attractiveness of the Mormon Church to outsiders. They are forbidden to drink coffee, tea, and alcoholic beverages, and use tobacco products.)"

Kurt made a comment claiming that the LDS taught that Jesus was created and would therefore be unable to work an infinate atonement. However, LDS Doctrine teaches that intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, nor indeed can be. Jesus always existed, and he was also the first born spirit son of the Father. We are all spiritual sons and daughters of the Father. However, Jesus (an infinite being), who was strictly obedient to the Father's will, was chosen to atone for our sins. Because he was perfect in every sense, his infinite suffering in the garden and on the cross put justice in his debt and gave him full power to exercise mercy to save the penitant.
As for the comment that Jesus is a part of this great, undefined essense with the Father, that idea is straight out of Hellenistic thought - that is Plato speaking through the generations. The Jesus I know was resurected and ate fish and honeycomb with the disciples prior to his ascension. He is a personable, loving, infinite God with a perfected body and it is in the Father's and Jesus's image that you and I are created.
Justin, Moses also wrote: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." Fortunately, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, did not take that as meaning additional scripture could not be written following Deuteromony. The reference you quote from John in Revelations is similar to that which Moses meant - do not add to or take from THIS specific writing (the Law of Moses in the case of Moses, the Book Revelations in the case of John). Please understand chiefly, that the Bible had not yet been compiled and organized when John wrote the words you quote.
Finally, to Santa Fe, NM: Revelation does not equate to being vacuous intellectually or to having ludicrous claims. Paul said that to the Greeks we preach foolishness. The Greeks wanted to make everything flow from their own brand of logos. Do not throw Jesus out of your life because He claimed to retake his body after three days - how's that for unbelievable? Miracles and revelatons only stopped because of unbelief. The LDS take joy in the fact that revelations are here again and miracles are here again. We are more than great communities. Yes, in the last days there will be false prophets (intimating true prophets), and how shall you know them? By their fruits shall ye know them; do men gather grapes of thistles? This fruit is delicious.