All Comments (49)

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/experimental/g12/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/experimental/g12/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/experimental/g12/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/indie/g255/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/indie/g255/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/indie/g255/

http://moreaboutmen.com/artist/leona-lewis/s32845/

http://moreaboutmen.com/artist/leona-lewis/s32845/

http://moreaboutmen.com/artist/leona-lewis/s32845/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/pop-latin/g489/

http://moreaboutmen.com/genre/pop-latin/g489/

Please note I'm NOT the "Wondering" who posted on Archbishop Tutu's thread 'God Cares, God Loves, We Choose' on 17 April 2007 3:28 PM! I'm not suprised that someone else is wondering too, but it is confusing when the other wonders quite differently from the way I do.

Friend

I'm a sister. And thanks for saying everything as a good friend!

Peace to you brother, I honestly meant it as a friend. I will consider all that you have to say.

Friend

Thanks for posting that poem a second time. Just what I needed to be enlightened. You are already a Zen master! :)

We all are students and teachers.

mr youse needn't be so spry
concernin questions arty

each has his tastes but as for i
i likes a certain party

gimme the he-man's solid bliss
for youse ideas i'll match youse

a pretty girl who naked is
is worth a million statues

E E Cummings, 1926

Friend

BTW no Zen master would read out a poem such as the one written by ee cummings to aid in enlightenment, for a person in meditation, one who is not yet enlightened usually has thousands of much more imaginative videos running non stop in their minds. Getting to silence those videos is the real challenge - by being patient enough till the videos have played themselves out or faded out by ignoring them - not having more videos or a poem that triggers more videos.

Friend

Thanks. I wish you the same.

I wish you peace and humbleness in your journey.

Friend

I agree that the poem had nothing to say about marriage.

Friend

My bad! I didn't know that the poem you chose was being addressed to people in deep meditation in the Zendo, specifically meant for people who have lost contact with the pleasures of the flesh in the course of their intense spiritual journey.

Jacob, I put on shades from the brillance of your photon truths, thank you for caring.

I opened my heart to the sound of a backslap.

I think that the best poems leave room for personal interpretation. I do not read the poem the way you do and don't see it as one of marriage and sex but I accept your interpretation of it as a shallow poem.

Lodi Gyari, Thank you for your contribution to the forum. I especially appreciate your viewpoints which assume that religions are pathways to discovering and developing our relationship with the universe.

Even as an atheist, I do use many meditative and contemplative devices developed through Buddhist, Christian, and scientific means. As a teacher I try to instill in my students the most powerful cognitive strategies, irregardless of their field of origin. Empowerment of the student is the teachers job.

I hope that our major religions will embrace interfaith dialogue and the realm of science.
Applying the process, methods and maybe even standards of science is our best way to help religions evolve towards a more humanity empowering state.

Buddhism seems to be leading the way.
Now, if only the others will follow.

Again, thank you Mr. Gyari

Friend

Having one partner and loving one’s partner needs no special mention - it is level one of human existence that everyone knows about (highlighted in Jonathan Livingston Seagull). The point therefore needs no illustration with a poem by e cummings, who in this case happens to be talking about having a party with a pretty naked girl and not at all about loving one’s partner in a monogamous marriage. Loving one’s partner is something everyone is expected to do and such love should not be raised to the pedestal of extraordinary achievement simply because many people don’t bother to follow the basic rule.

In the context of Buddhist practice, which by the way is the subject of this thread, there is no obligation for everyone to become monks or nuns. It is a free choice. Celibacy is not mandated outside of religious life in a monastery; only practice of monogamy in a marriage is expected. So I don’t see the point at all why you felt a need to remind anyone that flesh is important, or rather having one life partner is a legitimate need, considering that your choice of the poem hardly seemed to convey the message of the need for a life partner. But getting stuck at the level of sex or becoming “sex mad” is something else, just as eating food to live and being a glutton are not the same. I suggest you go the Muslim threads on this forum and read the posts there and on the discussion about sexuality in religion, to get a taste of what it means to get stuck at the level of sex, without any understanding of spirituality in religions.

Your explanation that you posted the poem “as talking to someone who thinks they are so intellectual and know so much about the world, but when we get so proud of ourselves, it reveals our vanity, this flesh, this animal, the joy of living in the moment, this love of our women and life (not many women necessarily),” – did you have anyone particular in mind? Was it addressed to Mr Gyari perhaps?

I think Bhuddism is translated to us through poetry and all poetry is connected by human life force.

In defense of e e cummnings:

you shall above all things be glad and young
For if you're young,whatever life you wear

it will become you;and if you are glad
whatever's living will yourself become.
Girlboys may nothing more than boygirls need:
i can entirely her only love

whose any mystery makes every man's
flesh put space on;and his mind take off time

that you should ever think,may god forbid
and (in his mercy) your true lover spare:
for that way knowledge lies,the foetal grave
called progress,and negation's dead undoom.

I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance

Your points are valid.

I read that poem as talking to someone who thinks they are so intellectual and know so much about the world, but when we get so proud of ourselves, it reveals our vanity, this flesh, this animal, the joy of living in the moment, this love of our women and life (not many women necessarily, I love my wife, thank god I met her).

So yes, I think the flesh is important with it's suffering, and that is my part of being stuck. And I read Johnathan Livingston Seagull...of course, like, everyone had it back in the 70's...

Henry James

The endorsement of Slavery was a manifestation of man’s inhumanity to man......God had nothing to do with it. Human beings chose to enslave others to satisfy their twisted pleasures. Slavery was endorsed by institutionalized religion and politics which are man made creations. It is the same with the sciences and increasing (institutionalized) knowledge of the mortals that want to convince people that there is no God.

“Any Christian with a desire to know more truth should explore and embrace Buddhist truths.” Now isn’t this jolly telling Christians what they should do? This is exactly what is wrong with the world. Is this not what the radical Muslims are doing, picking up where the flower power radicals who deny the existence of God and bash Christianity left off.

I wonder why those all knowing on earth invalidate Christianity but turn around and seek solace in Buddhism?

I know that if you earnestly seek the truth you will find the truth.....and you don’t have to follow Buddhist truths to find the truth because there is but one truth and it is universal, no man, group, or race has a monopoly over it.....it is eternal the Alpha and Omega. The same truth that is in Buddhism is at the heart of Christianity.....seek and you shall find!

And BTW friend, strict monogamy has been advocated by all religions, Islam being the only exception. Scientific evidence backs monogamy.

One more thing friend, Just in case you have indulged in Eastern practices without proper guidance and adherence to its strict rules. The Kundalini energy which is unleashed through intense spiritual exercises, can go haywire in some people, if it is not handled right. Some become what Hindus call "Sex mad." Their whole world becomes coloured with sex in an addictive way. It is a terrible state to be trapped in. That is the reason strict monogamy or preferably celibacy is advocated when one engages in intense forms of spiritual practice, until the Kundalini can rise to higher levels and the risk of becoming sex mad has passed. In the Hindu tradition, the sex chakra is the second LOWEST chakra and to be stuck at that level is not a very high place to be.

Friend

Your poem, what has it got to do with Tibetan Buddhism? If the highest realm and greatest bliss you can imagine is a party with a pretty naked girl, your imagination hasn't grown enough my friend. There are levels of existence you seem to know nothing about. Ever read Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach? But of course you have. Only it makes no sense to you right? If fighting for and acquiring flesh is your greatest aspiration and preoccupation in this life, it might take you a couple of lifetimes to understand other levels of existence. So take your time my friend. We understand that you can achieve only so much in one lifetime.

mr youse needn't be so spry
concernin questions arty

each has his tastes but as for i
i likes a certain party

gimme the he-man's solid bliss
for youse ideas i'll match youse

a pretty girl who naked is
is worth a million statues

E E Cummings, 1926

Dear Mr Gyari

It is truly wonderful to hear the voice of a Tibetan Buddhist on the forum, especially the envoy of H.H. the Dalai Lama! Thank you indeed for adding your voice.

In 1984 when I (an Indian-Australian woman) had my first interview with Dom Bede Griffiths in his tiny Ashram hut in India, I can still recall my shock as a Christian at seeing a huge bathik of Buddha on his wall, which seemed to cover almost all of it, and the cross that hung on his wall as well seemed too small in comparison. Since easy attachment to people is one of the heaviest crosses I carry in my life, Fr Bede was repeatedly telling me to be detached, making it a point to remind me, “Buddha taught detachment you know.” He even went so far as to imply that Buddha’s concept of compassion was even greater than that of Jesus because of Buddha’s inclusion of animals and all sentient beings! While Fr Bede remained a deeply committed Christian, he belongs to the group of great admirers of Buddhism and wrote about it his books. He was of the opinion that Tibetan Buddhists are the absolute geniuses when it comes to the study of the mind and I have reason to agree with him.

In 1995 I had the great privilege for two days of acting as voluntary interpreter to Dr Tenzin Choedrak, the personal physician of H.H. the Dalai Lama, when he came with a small team from Men-Tsee-Khang Tibetan and Astrological Institute in Daramsala, to give consultations in Germany. http://www.buddhapia.com/tibet/tibetcen/tmai/tmai.html
The two days I spent in the company of the team, acting as (German-English) interpreter during consultations, (taking case histories of patients according to the allopathic tradition and passing on Dr Choedrak’s advice to the patients, via the Tibetan doctor who did the Tibetan-English interpretation) and eating all my meals with them, remains one of the happiest memories of my life. I was deeply impressed with Dr Choedrak’s piety and his incredibly peaceful aura. He spoke very rarely, and when he did, it was hardly audible. He seemed to roll his prayer beads constantly. At the same it was clear that he was very much awake to and in tune with everything around him. I still treasure the prayer bead he gave me as a gift, and have it right beside me as I write this! (I don’t pray with it; as a Catholic I don’t even recite the Rosary or use it for my prayers, although I think that both prayer beads are good for counting mantra.)

The dialogue with Tibetan Buddhists and learning from them is one of the wisest things any person deeply interested in spirituality and has sufficient confidence to deal with other religions can do.

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

to "anonymous"

I'm a christian that follows pretty much the same life as you do. I couldnt be any happier. My family, friends, health and my finances are as great as I ever imagined they could be. You asked if there is something wrong with you? No. I'm glad your happy. I do not want to impose any beliefs on you whatsoever but must say that because of my overwhelming happiness I came to Christ. So many people think that those who come to know God come because their lives are filled with anguish but I found that all my happiness were blessings from above. So, because my life was filled with happiness before I came to God should I say "God do I need you?" Nope, because He gives me things that I could never get on my own. You don't have to believe that, but thats my story. And I couldnt ask for a better life or a better God.

Norrie

maybe true Buddhist are Rogers without knowing it.

I think Jacob JOZEVZ has been smoking buddha.

Mr. Lodi Gyari

You continue to not get it. Buddhist is just as bad as Christian or any other categorical.

When a human says "I am this" then he/she is no longer that... We now have separation, and created a world of meaningless conversations and potentialities to hate one another. All the practice of any good will in the world will not justify creating separation. No Holy Dalai Lama, no holy anything. No urgings to living in harmony for the sake of identity.

We have to stop it.

We must work to get rid of all categoricals that cause human separation. If you say you are a Buddhist you are not enlightened. You are a part of the problem, however peaceful, or seemingly profound your experiences are. You are separated period.

Roger,

You sound to me as if you're an unconscious Buddhist - a Buddhist without knowing it.

Your description of how you live and act embodies Buddhist ideals and principles.

You're doing good in the world and you're a lucky fellow! No need for anything else as far as I can see.

Best wishes.

No, nothing wrong with that, you sound like a god to me. Me myself, I'm in conflict with parts of my family, only glimpse at peace, fall into depression sometimes, sometimes self-medicated, contradict myself, argue over petty matters...

I am not religious. i do not claim to know if there is a god or not as this is beyond the reach of my faculties. I do not meditate. I do not pray.

I eat in moderation, mostly non-animal based foods. I drink very little alcohol. I exercise regularly. I get at least 8 hours of sleep every day.

I try not to harm others or harbor ill will towards others. I avoid conflicts unless there is no other choice. I do not worry about things that I have no control over.

I am part of a very loving family with a very loving wife. I have a only few but very close friends. In general I enjoy people.

I am mostly very happy and at peace with myself.

I for one do not need Buddhism or meditation or Judaism or Christianity or Islam or any other faith.

Something wrong with me? Please tell.

I am not religious. i do not claim to know if there is a god or not as this is beyond the reach of my faculties. I do not meditate. I do not pray.

I eat in moderation, mostly non-animal based foods. I drink very little alcohol. I exercise regularly. I get at least 8 hours of sleep every day.

I try not to harm others or harbor ill will towards others. I avoid conflicts unless there is no other choice. i do not worry about things that I have no control over.

I am part of a very loving faily with a very loving wife. I have a only few but very close friends. In general I enjoy people.

I am most very happy and at peace with myself.

I for one do not need Buddhism or meditation or Judaism or Christianity or Islam or any other faith.

Something wrong with me? Please tell.

I have to agree with Norrie, I like your posts Jacob, but I only have so long to live...

Jacob Jozevz etc. et al. ad infinitum,

If you won't heed Volaire's maxim, would you at least take to heart what Shakespeare wrote:

BREVITY IS THE SOUL OF WIT

My freshman physics professor transmuted this to:

BREVITY IS THE SOUL OF ELEGANCE

which he expected us to demonstrate when we did physics.

Best wishes.

Jacob JOZEVZ There is only ECK ECLATi which is YOU and ITSELF.:,

For a few days you were taking to heart my post on another thread, which was addressed to those who use up more than four column inches per post. Now you've reverted to type, which is too bad because fewer people will read your posts.

PLEASE REMEMBER:

THE SECRET OF BEING A BORE IS TO TELL IT ALL !

- Voltaire

Anonymous,

Try http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=7,2180,0,0,1,0 for an introductory article

"Neuroscientists are now affirming..."

Would someone give a reference and a link? I find this research fascinating.

This is from another thread:

You may be interested in the work of Dr. Andrew Newberg, the director of the new Center for Spirituality and the Mind at PENN.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=55485

What a wise and loving and humane column: thank you Lodi G.

As an apostate Mormon/Swedenborgian, it seems to me that Buddhism is the most elevated spiritual practice humans have been able to attain.

and as Lodi notes, the efficacy of the practice is being increasingly correlated with what ACTUALLY happens in our brains as we practice Buddhist principles and methods.

My beloved Christian friends, over the Centuries your beliefs have been very frequently *invalidated* by increasing knowledge (the world is 6,000 years old etc).

One must do all sorts of mental gymnastics to explain away, for instance, the Bible's thoroughgoing endoresement of Slavery.

Buddhism is in the opposite situation as noted.

Any Christian with a desire to know more truth should explore and embrace Buddhist truths,

the first action proinciple of which is Compassion and loving kindness.

Empathy, love, and joy can be developed but you don't have to be a Buddhist in order to do so....the same is also at the heart of Christianity, something that a great many people in the West deny. Unfortunately they follow the letter of the law and neglect, despise and violate the heart of the law. Jesus of Nazareth during his days among the children of man made that abundantly clear.