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And you make random assertions with nothing to back them up.

Your'e funny.

Very well.

Now.

Where did that 99% figure come from?

numerous instances of Jesus talking about sin and forgiving to those who REPENTED:

John 5:14
Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

Mark 2:5
5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."

Mark 2:17
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Luke 5:20
When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."

Luke 7,36-38
36Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

Luke 7:47-49
47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

Luke 17:1
] Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come.

John 8:11
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

As yet, you have given NO names. Assertions are a dime a dozen, pal.

And reading the gospels with no idea what the authors wrote, as opposed to what some scribe stuck in later, isn't "careful" in anybody's camp.

Nor, for that matter, can it be considered "thinking," especially since you missed the point of my post, which is that someone is putting a lot of stock--and a lot of repetitions--in a verse that is genereal regarded as not original.

If there are "numerous instances," why is this the only one we keep hearing about?

Thats precisely the point, you gave ONE name. Thats its. Keep on ignoring the numerous other instances where Jesus condemned sin but preached forgiveness for the sinner. Instead of responding without thinking, go pick up a Bible and carefully read the Gospels. See for yourself.

Excuse me? 99%? Where did you get that number? I gave my reference. Where's yours?

Jesus used the verse "Go and sin no more" (which BTW 99% of Biblical scholars have no issue with its authenticiy) once with the sinner woman. But numerous times he instructed those he taught or helped not to sin again even if he did not use that exact word order! the lame man at the pool for example, amongst others.

Sin is anathema to Christ.

We can all agree, that in the End the answer will be clear as to what is a sin and who shall be saved. No amount of arguing, mocking, reasoning, excuses or moral relativism can alter the absolutism of whatever is out there after death. No soul can quote Dawkins at the end.

If you claim that homosxuality is not sin then you MUST believe in the concept of sin (after all, how can you claim to describe what something is or isn't if you dont believe in the existence of that very thing). And if you believe sin is seperate from homosexuality, then you must believe in God (after all, sin is a transgression against whom if not God).

What will you say if, just if, upon meeting your Maker He reveals that it truly is? What will YOU say?

I'm a straight man and a sorta-kinda pantheist, and I resent it when anyone insists that I should change my sexual preference or my religious beliefs. There are atheists who are just as evangelistic as the religious evangelists they criticize. While I oppose the general concept of evangelism, atheist evangelists do not irritate me as much as the religious ones. That's because atheist evangelists do not tell believers that they are doomed to hell unless they stop believing. And gay activists do not tell straights they are doomed to hell unless they join the gay team. True, there are some atheists who tell believers that they are stupid and ignorant, but that is much less transcendentally offensive than the doctrine of eternal damnation.

"Go and sin no more."

Biblical scholar Bart D. Ehrman, in _Misquoting Jesus_ (HarperSanFrancisco, 2005), explains that this text is not original to the Gospel of John at all, but was a later interpolation.

Indeed, he makes it number three on his list of "Top Ten Verses That Were Not Originally in the New Testament."

Likewise, if anyone reading this has found themselves trapped in Christianity there are a lot of resources to turn to. Fortunately, the Internet has given us not only the opportunity to expose religious belief as the absurdity it is, but also the community to help people escape from Christianity. If you are looking for such resources I recommend Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris' website. They are two scholars currently engaged in the struggle against the evil of religion. I particularly recommend Dawkins' "The God Delusion", which totally decimates theism using reason, logic, and an overwhelming mountain of evidence.

Good Luck!!

I have a tremendus amount of spiritual love for gays and lesbians.I want all gays to know that the christian commnunity is praying very hard for them every day so they can find what they are looking for. We never cease to lift you up in the presence of our God, your Saviour as well. As some say, if Jesus were on earth today, he would definitely be walking among the gay, lesbians and HIV infected ones. Because he did not come for the healthy and the saved but for the sick and the loss.

We would like all the gay community to know that were are with them in their quest for their real identity. It is indeed in Jesus Christ, The Messiah.The Lord is ready to make you rediscover yourself in a whole new way, a brand new life.

As sympathetic as I am about the gay community, we all have to admit that homosexuality is definitely not in the plan of the Intelligent Designer and has to be dealt with as a deviance from the word of God. It may be hard to hear but I have to tell you the truth. Truth is what is.

If you read this text and want to try a relationship with Jesus. How about if you pray this short prayer with me:
"Say, Lord Jesus, I know that I tried to identify myself diffrently from what intended for me. I also know you came to have a relationship with us. Now, I invite you to come into my life right, I repent from my lifestyle, take me as I am and make me a brand new person. I will live for you and do as you please.
In your name I pray. Amen."

Now, if you prayed this prayer with me, find yourself a bible based church in you area,have yourself fed of the Living Water and you will never be thirsty again.

Gloria,

Where does it say anywhere that women were property?

The point is that William was taking things out of context and using them in his argument against what was considered sinful. People who don't know a lot about history or true interpretation of original bible writings often take a sentence here or there out of context to try to make a point.

Yes, there was also no debate in Paul's time about women being property. What is your point?

William Ball,

Slavery in the Jewish community in biblical times was not what we think of today as slavery. People were not forcefully taken, beaten, kept against their will and treated like property. For the most part, people became a "slave" to a person or family to work off a debt. I would hardly call that sinful.

Secondly, since homosexual acts are mentioned in both the old and new testaments as being a sin, I think it's pretty safe to say there was no struggle in Paul's time deciding whether or not it was a sin.

James:
Dawn: Keep your Uninformed Mythologies to Yourself

Before you Call someone else a Sinner,
a. be perfect, as Jesus admonished you.
b. do some research on even the "facts" of your myth of Sodom and Gommorrah, which you misrepresent in the most convoluted fashion.

I am most offended by your
calling Ms Russell a Sinner.

What gives you the Gall to think you are a better person than she is?

Posted March 22, 2007 12:31 PM

Dear James,

I don't believe Rev. Russel believes Sodom and Gomorrah is a Myth.
It was you who called Rev. Russell a sinner.

James,

I see nowhere that Joe makes a statement that he is better than Ms. Russell. I'm sure if you asked Joe, he would tell you he is a sinner too. He even specifically states at the end of his comment that Christians should never hate a person with homosexual tendancies. You are pushing thoughts onto him that he does not believe.

"Maybe what Saint Paul is preaching is coming to bear. It sure seems that way. In Christian circles, slavery was always considered an acceptable practice, until recently when more and more people are more concerned with people's feelings and what the world thinks than the truth and what God says is true."

"Maybe what Saint Paul is preaching is coming to bear. It sure seems that way. In Christian circles, women speaking in public was always considered a sin, until recently when more and more people are more concerned with people's feelings and what the world thinks than the truth and what God says is true."

"Maybe what Saint Paul is preaching is coming to bear. It sure seems that way. In Christian circles, inter-racial marriage was always considered a sin, until recently when more and more people are more concerned with people's feelings and what the world thinks than the truth and what God says is true."

There, I fixed that for you.

Christians who condemn people who have sexual orientations other than female/male and are sexually active, need to do a little research into the context in which the various scriptures were written. If they have an open mind about what they are doing, they will find that certain verses are not necessarily condemning homosexual relationships, but rather rape(Sodom) or exploitation of minors (letters of Paul.) In addition the cultural context is important. Taboos exist in all cultures and they are not necessarily going to make sense. Take for example the taboo mentioned in the Jewish Bible aka Old Testament against mixing two different kinds of thread in the same garment or mixing two different crops in the same field (found in Leviticus.)

We have a growing realization today that asking GBLT people to adhere to higher standard, ie, celibacy, than we ask heterosexual people is manifestly unfair. That said, I have nothing but praise for people who choose a celibate life. It is a very high practice.

Joe,

Thank you so much for sharing with us what God thinks about homosexuality. Now that we know his opinion, what about other mythological figures? For example, what is the Tooth Fairy's position? Does Santa Claus approve of the gays? Please let us know.

Thanks!

Joe
If there was any reason to believe that Prayer has an effect,

I would be praying that you would see the light.

In so far as you consider Homosexuality a sin,

you consider yourself better than Ms Russell, at least in that regard.

There is NO reason for you to think you are a better person IN ANY WAY than Ms Russell because you have the *correct* sexual orientation and she *doesn't.*

In fact, that belief on your part is Immoral (if I believed in Sin I would call it a sin).

It is a belief based on ignorance and prejudice, as well as an interpretation of scripture that is arguable, and that many deeply religious people interpret very differently than you.

I do applaud your compassionate attitude, however.

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Tim 4:3-4)

Maybe what Saint Paul is preaching is coming to bear. It sure seems that way. In Christian circles, homosexuality was always considered a sin, until recently when more and more people are more concerned with people's feelings and what the world thinks than the truth and what God says is true.

"If He [God] condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men..." -- 2 Peter 2:6-7

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." -- Jude 7

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." -- Romans 1:26-27

Listen, Christians can never, EVER hate a person with homosexual tendencies. They, like every other sinner, must be treated with love and compassion. However, we cannot and must not confirm them in their sins and say homosexuality is normal and acceptable to God. We must loving admonish them just like with a person who has a tendency to commit adultery or watch pornography. I will pray for Ms. Russell and I hope others will too.

Susan: I applaud that you admitted to those
around you that you are gay. The situation though
is that most gays haven't the slightest idea as
per the reason or reasons that they have choosen
this road in this reality.
No I am not saying that homosexuality is a choice
that is made in this reality, but is choosen
in the reality before you decided to create your-
self and experiance this three dimensional world.
I implore you to learn about reincarnation and
past life experiances and the real power of the
soul (LOVE).
You will find many who will shun you condemn you, judge you, make hurtful remarks, and I will
bet they all consider themselves loving Christians.
There is a piece of wisdom in the bible that all
should abide by "Judge not lest ye be Judged",
but the judging will be by ourselves, which can
be the harshest judge of all
Proverb: If you fear your own godliness you will
create a god that you fear.

Willem:
you forgot to take off your cap lock. I think that has happened before.

I often agree with you,
but it is just really hard to read your posts
when they are all in Caps.

Peace brother.

jj

Congratulations and Thanks, Ms Russell

The Gay-Haters,
and even those who have overflowing good will towards our gay brothers and sisters

do not realize sufficiently
The COURAGE it takes
to tell the truth about yourself in public.

the truth In *any* aspect of one's being
let alone something so demonized by the fearful and uninformed as homosexuality.

Please feel the support and love
of all people of good will, Ms Russell.

PLEASE DEAR READERS JUST REMEMBER ONE THING "RELIGION IS THE PROBLEM AND NOT THE ANSWER"

Dawn: Keep your Uninformed Mythologies to Yourself

Before you Call someone else a Sinner,
a. be perfect, as Jesus admonished you.
b. do some research on even the "facts" of your myth of Sodom and Gommorrah, which you misrepresent in the most convoluted fashion.

I am most offended by your
calling Ms Russell a Sinner.

What gives you the Gall to think you are a better person than she is?

Dear Aleco,

The only place in which Jesus said, 'Go and sin no more' is John 8:11 It is not the ending of "all" of his sayings. Further, most Bible translations will note something like: "This passage, which in most editions of the New Testament is printed in the text of John, 7:53-8:11, has no fixed place in our witnesses (read ancient textual copies). Some of them do not contain it at all." This is taken from the notes of the Revised English Bible.

So, don't broad brush a one-time saying into every conversation Jesus may have had.

Secondly, the Book of Leviticus lists all kinds of 'sins' which they believes seperated themselves from God which Christians of today would not concern themselves with. In fact, a significant struggle in New Testament times was over just this issue of what purity laws Christians should follow (read book of Acts). The final reasoning and agreement between Paul and the Jerusalem church resulted in a much changed Jewish-Christian norm.
So when we talk about what constitutes 'sin' and how churches today deal with it, we need to recognize that we have changed. Slavery was accepted by everyone at some point, even St.Paul, but we would call that 'sinful' today.

William

All people are God's children. Jesus came for those who sinned (all humanity). Gay and Lesbian lifestyle is a sin. Rev. Susan Russell what do you think happened in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah? Why were the townsmen calling out for the male guests of Lot? Were they just being neighborly or were they wanting the guests for sexual pleasure? Why do you think Lot suggested that the townsmen take his daughters? Lot knew they were gay and knew they were not interested in his daughters. He also knew that his suggestion would be denied. What happened to the town as soon as the angels fled with Lot? Lot was the only man who remained pure as well as his family, he was saved by his purity and living God's word. The townsmen had thier chance to change thier ways, but chose not to. God loved them but THEY didn't love God in return. We all know how they ended up.

OH JESUS PLEEZE WHAT A HOKUS POKUS ALL THIS RELIGOUS BS IS!! GET OUT OF IT GET A LIFE, GOD/JESUS SHE JUST DOESNT EXIST ITS A SCAM RUN BY MONEYGRABBING HOMOPHOBIC PREACHERS/BISHOPS/MINISTERS ITS A JOKE!

Where does the episcopal church stand on the subject of SIN?

Yes, Jesus preached love and forgiveness to ALL but he always ended his sermons/messages/miracles with "Go and sin no more"

According to the Bible, Old and New Testament, gay sex is clearly a sin just like lying, anger, stealing and ignoring God. Sin seperates one from their Savior. Bigotry would be to claim that gays have no hope of salvation. The latter would be against Christ's teaching. But gays, just like the rest of humanity (gay or straight) have to renounce their sin and ask for forgiveness. A church that states that a sin is not a sin no more is no different than the lukewarm church that God cursed in Revelations.

Rev. Russell:

I am very happy that you have made your peace with God and others. I am not gay but I have taken a vow of celibacy because I am divorced. I have received so much peace by finally doing what is right in the eyes of Our Lord. We all have our crosses to bear and life is about loving our Lord with our whole being, and others as ourselves. Life is to short to put my wants before my salvation.

I feel very blessed to be a Catholic, I converted in 2001. The Catholic church doesn't reject gays, divorcee's etc., but it does stand up for whats right and wrong.

In Christ Love
Linda

Susan Russell,

Very well written and very true.

I was worried that the American Church would diverge from its Christian path. Thankfully it continues on it.

Recent events have proven that the Primates are indeed monkeys, and not nice ones either.