http://index1.ciopda.com >hobart s model 2912ps
http://index1.dityns.com >vinyl fencing with clear panles

http://index1.ciopda.com >hobart s model 2912ps
http://index1.dityns.com >vinyl fencing with clear panles

http://index1.ciopda.com >hobart s model 2912ps
http://index1.dityns.com >vinyl fencing with clear panles

http://index1.ciopda.com >comcast spotlight fresno and networks
http://index1.dityns.com >ricky ullman professional photo shoots

http://index1.ciopda.com >comcast spotlight fresno and networks
http://index1.dityns.com >ricky ullman professional photo shoots

http://index1.ciopda.com >comcast spotlight fresno and networks
http://index1.dityns.com >ricky ullman professional photo shoots

http://index1.biolop.com >buy mulch
http://index1.rfrltk.com >lisa campanelli

http://index1.ntdphb.com >ronald tompkins pastor biography
http://index1.vitiup.com >kvbo and series of low-power stations

http://index1.ntdphb.com >ronald tompkins pastor biography
http://index1.vitiup.com >kvbo and series of low-power stations

http://index1.niopil.com >i ve got it all most mp3
http://index1.oiloin.com >morton bildings

http://index1.napoir.com >pictures of lost
http://index1.diopst.com >hoyts cinemas simsbury ct

http://index1.napoir.com >newbridge international realty
http://index1.diopst.com >never make a pretty woman your wife lyrics

http://index1.napoir.com >newbridge international realty
http://index1.diopst.com >never make a pretty woman your wife lyrics

http://index1.napoir.com >florida marlins and pax
http://index1.diopst.com >catholic charities jobs long island

http://index1.napoir.com >florida marlins and pax
http://index1.diopst.com >catholic charities jobs long island

http://index1.napoir.com >florida marlins and pax
http://index1.diopst.com >catholic charities jobs long island

http://index1.weewra.com >energy efficeint homes
http://index1.erojin.com >movie heartbreakers dress

http://index1.ariopr.com >tracy sue orkin md 159 margaret street plattsburgh ny
http://index1.quikop.com >quotes for health insurance

http://index1.ariopr.com >male movie stars nude
http://index1.quikop.com >quotes for health insurance

http://index1.ariopr.com >tracy sue orkin md 159 margaret street plattsburgh ny
http://index1.quikop.com >9&10news

http://index1.ariopr.com >tracy sue orkin md 159 margaret street plattsburgh ny
http://index1.quikop.com >9&10news

http://index1.ariopr.com >tracy sue orkin md 159 margaret street plattsburgh ny
http://index1.quikop.com >9&10news

http://index1.8shtuk.com >large growth on azalea
http://index1.eroint.com >princess diana death picture

http://index1.8shtuk.com >large growth on azalea
http://index1.eroint.com >princess diana death picture

http://index1.8shtuk.com >large growth on azalea
http://index1.eroint.com >princess diana death picture

http://index1.8shtuk.com >large growth on azalea
http://index1.eroint.com >princess diana death picture

http://index1.8shtuk.com >large growth on azalea
http://index1.eroint.com >princess diana death picture

http://index1.smytiw.com >16 mini helmet dispaly case
http://index1.dfitbv.com >nevada brothel porn star

http://index1.smytiw.com >16 mini helmet dispaly case
http://index1.dfitbv.com >nevada brothel porn star

http://index1.smytiw.com >pinto bellhousing sale
http://index1.dfitbv.com >masterbrand cabinet

http://index1.smytiw.com >pinto bellhousing sale
http://index1.dfitbv.com >masterbrand cabinet

http://index1.smytiw.com >pinto bellhousing sale
http://index1.dfitbv.com >masterbrand cabinet

http://index1.9poilo.com >schubas
http://index1.stityg.com >psychopharmocolgy courses online

http://index1.9poilo.com >schubas
http://index1.stityg.com >psychopharmocolgy courses online

http://index1.9poilo.com >schubas
http://index1.stityg.com >psychopharmocolgy courses online

http://index1.smytiw.com >florida directory of moped retailers
http://index1.dfitbv.com >masterbrand cabinet

http://index1.smytiw.com >florida directory of moped retailers
http://index1.dfitbv.com >masterbrand cabinet

http://index1.smytiw.com >florida directory of moped retailers
http://index1.dfitbv.com >masterbrand cabinet

http://index1.sghas.com >wichita falls tx xxx

http://index1.sghas.com >wichita falls tx xxx

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.lm4nmu.com >dockers mailing address

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mster6.com >new chevrolet

http://1.mastr6.com >portland zip codes

http://1.mastr6.com >portland zip codes

http://1.mastr6.com >portland zip codes

http://1.mastr6.com >portland zip codes

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://1.poshlo.com >suzzane russo brass

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.scukam.com >exploitation films

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.7umini.com >us army corp of engineers

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.typguide.com >cat pics

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.mumuli.com >network magic download

http://index1.morun5.com >boy scout camp forestburg

http://index1.morun5.com >boy scout camp forestburg

http://index1.morun5.com >boy scout camp forestburg

http://index1.morun5.com >boy scout camp forestburg

http://index1.tolant.com >best wsternhotels

http://index1.tolant.com >best wsternhotels

http://index1.tolant.com >best wsternhotels

http://index1.tolant.com >best wsternhotels

http://index1.tolant.com >best wsternhotels

http://index1.tolant.com >best wsternhotels

http://index1.tolant.com >best wsternhotels

http://index1.funtir.com >classy updos

http://index1.funtir.com >classy updos

http://index1.funtir.com >classy updos

http://index1.funtir.com >classy updos

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.lopste.com >chambersburg hospital

http://index1.hrumst.com >novelty doorbell ringers

http://index1.hrumst.com >novelty doorbell ringers

http://index1.no-4um.com >data com

http://index1.no-4um.com >data com

http://index1.no-4um.com >data com

http://index1.no-4um.com >data com

http://index1.no-4um.com >data com

http://index1.no-4um.com >data com

http://index1.semrua.com >winsock

http://index1.semrua.com >winsock

http://index1.semrua.com >winsock

http://index1.semrua.com >winsock

http://index1.trum4u.com >aol greating cards

http://index1.trum4u.com >aol greating cards

http://index1.trum4u.com >aol greating cards

http://index1.gnusmu.com >dob

http://index1.gnusmu.com >dob

http://index1.gnusmu.com >dob

http://index1.gnusmu.com >dob

http://index1.umsung.com >meridian cabana

http://index1.umsung.com >meridian cabana

http://index1.umsung.com >meridian cabana

http://index1.umsung.com >meridian cabana

http://index1.umsung.com >meridian cabana

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.rast4u.com >washington dc capital

http://index1.fumuni.com >mossberg model 500 shotgun 410 pumps for sale

http://index1.fumuni.com >mossberg model 500 shotgun 410 pumps for sale

http://index1.fumuni.com >mossberg model 500 shotgun 410 pumps for sale

http://index1.fumuni.com >mossberg model 500 shotgun 410 pumps for sale

http://index1.fumuni.com >mossberg model 500 shotgun 410 pumps for sale

http://index1.bvboo.com >picture of shemale in high heels

http://index1.bvboo.com >picture of shemale in high heels

http://index1.trume6.com >desert ridge shopping center

http://index1.trume6.com >desert ridge shopping center

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://humkan.com >american 20arbitration 20association

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://index1.humkan.com >martinsburg wv landscaping

http://weviru.com >math tutor

http://weviru.com >math tutor

http://weviru.com >math tutor

http://weviru.com >math tutor

http://weviru.com >math tutor

http://weviru.com >math tutor

http://weviru.com >math tutor

http://index1.gener4.com >blood clot color diagram

http://index1.gener4.com >blood clot color diagram

http://index1.gener4.com >blood clot color diagram

http://index1.gener4.com >blood clot color diagram

http://index1.gener4.com >blood clot color diagram

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://yritum.com >122 capital street suite 200

http://index1.bomiqu.com >phil town

http://index1.bomiqu.com >phil town

http://index1.bomiqu.com >phil town

[*map/map_all_ag2.txt||10||r||1|| @]

[*map/map_all_ag2.txt||10||r||1|| @]

[*map/map_all_ag2.txt||10||r||1|| @]

The emo punk boy.

The emo punk boy.

The emo punk boy.

The emo punk boy.

The emo punk boy.

The pony girl on the farm http://fat.ringtone2.name/ emo punk boy.

The pony girl on the farm http://fat.ringtone2.name/ emo punk boy.

The pony girl on the farm http://fat.ringtone2.name/ emo punk boy.

The pony girl on the farm http://fat.ringtone2.name/ emo punk boy.

The pony girl on the farm http://fat.ringtone2.name/ emo punk boy.

http://babesxsexy4.info i

http://babesxsexy4.info i

New google surprise!
www.yahdex.ru test [url=www.yahdex.ru]test[/url]
www.yahdex.ru test [url=www.yahdex.ru]test[/url]
www.yahdex.ru test [url=www.yahdex.ru]test[/url]
www.yahdex.ru test [url=www.yahdex.ru]test[/url]
www.yahdex.ru test [url=www.yahdex.ru]test[/url]
www.yahdex.ru test [url=www.yahdex.ru]test[/url]

Click adsense and win new car speakers !

free downloads t mobile ringtones
http://idisk.mac.com/ringtonesforyou/Public/index.html

lkwb zavbh cjohfb ugnmobs fkiyuajt znbdiojc fevjbzik

lkwb zavbh cjohfb ugnmobs fkiyuajt znbdiojc fevjbzik

Amen I say to all those that will call a pond God in what ever they do! Times in History never take us away from religion with God in the center of what was happening! The true understanding that God is hope with love. HIS nature HE has to offer just by asking.
THERE ISN'T A DAY
There isn't a day that goes by
where God isn't present to people
that are in need of HIM.
Only to reach out and take HIS hand
with no cost nor no complaint.
HIS willingness to see us though the battles
we endure can soften the blows which we endure.
God never ask that you love HIM nor be true
but waits for that moment for you to be you.

Terry Carroll - hear, hear and thanks.

Emotionally diblilliated people who continue to support superstition against all good common sense and reason are a serious threat to global peace and security. It is quite immoral to allow children to have their heads filled with primitive, impossible to prove notions of gods, which are no more real than faeries and pixies. The absolute worst thing to see is a nation like the USA so completely wasted intellectually that politicians are forced to pose for photos with props such as bibles in order to be considered for election. That is a sign of stupidity just as much as this is:
http://richarddawkins.net/article,621,Panel-discussion-on-atheism-where-no-atheists-are-included,CNN

Are you people really so far gone that you don’t even know that when you pray it is an act of superstition and that it’s you talking to yourself?

JIM- its really no surprise that parayers of petition or personal prayers full of expectation and asking for some selfish end are not necessarily much of a gauge for the efficacy of prayer-

no person who prayers regularly would make such a claim that prayers with a demanding and expectant outcome should be answered anyway-

it really indidcates the lack of actual understanding of what prayer is even supposed to be-
prayer is a giving- not a taking-

actually if your intention was to prove that prayer had no effect- your statement of ", but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.” indicates an effect doesnt it?

i guess you made an assumption that the prayer would have a positive effect- but an effect is an effect, is it not?

so the stark summary stands in contradiction to its own self-

no effect- then stated effect-
and this proves what?

The assertion that “God answers prayers” is a statement that is either true or false and therefore can be tested. The American Heart Journal published the results of such a study in April 2006.

The article's abstract states that “Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome.”

The abstract summarized its results in stark terms: “Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG [coronary artery bypass graft], but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.”

You may believe that prayers are answered, but dispassionate and objective studies show they are not.

not only does prayer conncet us with the creator- it also connects us with each other in an ethereal way-
i call it PRAYDAR (admittedly co-opted from gaydar)

there are countless instances in my life where through prayer i have encountered other people who were in the same service oriented intent as myself and who were also praying- there are myriad coincidences occurring all the time-

Exactly right. Prayer is for the self aware with a conscience effort to mind God as your witness.
God Bless you and yours always. amen.

How does prayer work, anyway? This is an honest question for something that just stumps me.

Does the Deity (God, Zeus, Jupiter, Sol, Allah, et al.) hear these voices emanating from Earth (humans only?) and select and choose?

Upon making the choice, does the Deity then go into the hospital room and re-direct the chemotherapy fluids to the affected cells? (And are the pharmaceutical company's patents respected?) Does the Deity do this while ignoring the prayers for something more broadly beneficial, such as peace in the Middle East?

How does the Deity choose between the two football teams, each of which gave prayers before the game?

Is the Deity paying particular attention when members of Congress pray together during their breakfast meetings? (Who is messing things up, preventing the Deity from granting us a balanced budget?)

When it seemed that the Egyptians' prayers to Horus were answered, was it actually Re or Ptah (or Allah?) doing the answering, or was it merely a coincidence that things turned out they way it was hoped?

What is and is not allowed for with prayers? Many claim that non-material requests are not granted; yet there are millions and millions everyday around the world praying for material things. Are they wrong? (They would claim that it works?)

How was it that the Helenistic religion came to be renamed a "mythology"? Who made that decision, and what happened to all the prayers of its Greek and Roman practitioners? (Were those transfered to God or Allah, depending on which side of the Bosporus they were issued?)

Could you prayerful people please provide us godless ones with some consensus answers on these pressing questions?

Faith is what you need
when what you believe makes no sense.
If it made sense you wouldn't need to have faith.
But if it makes no sense why believe it anyway.
That's the mystery of prayer.

The interesting part about prayer is what Jesus said before intoning the Lord's prayer:

Matthew 6

7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.]
8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
9Pray, therefore, like this: Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.

This is quite similar to Kant's deprecation of prayer as commonly understood, the repetition of formulas or the requests for some bounty from heaven. Kant concluded that you could only pray to be as God would wish you to be. Given that the existence of a Divine Being with foreknowledge of our damnation or salvation precludes any change in our ultimate fate by our actions.

Prayer the Inexhaustible Mystery. I believe that prayer is and will remain a mystery. Just as God will remain a mystery. Why prayer works for some, and others it does not. Too many questions that only lead to more questions, not always answers.
But for me that is where "faith" enters the picture. And faith does not imply religion all the time. But either which way, religion with faith, or faith without religion, and or no belief at all we will all die one day too soon.

"Prayer Is An Inexhaustible Mystery"

No, it's inexhaustible silliness. But if it makes you feel better, have at it.

Religion is no more credible than astrology.
Its the same kinda wacky gibberish.
I'm hoping that the 21st century will see religion
go the way of all superstitions.
President Bush shows us how dangerous it is with his crazy god-inspired crusade against "evil".
As do the suicide bombers who believe anything
their clerics tell them.
Its all so medieval isn't it?

Praying is wishful thinking, to such a self-deceiving degree that we partition off a section of our mostly rational lives, so we can believe we understand and can communicate with the interworkings of all- when in actuality, we only imagine the most optimistic circumstances of such and are relieved. When there are so many deities people can subscribe to, why not take the time to ask all of them for the best of the best for yourself and others, this would raise your probability of being content significantly. Considering that many of people's religions are infallible (and thus making void the former idea), someone must be lying, some significant proportion must be lying, or not have all the facts; so, why heighten the self-deception to the point where you believe your deity is the most probable, as if you have more faith or you are more correct than the next guy, who could (in all probability) easily be willing to blow himself up to show how sure he really is. Wishful thinking helps in everyday life, optimism is a fine way to look at problems and sort out pros and cons, but when you begin talking to yourself as if there is another, the ONE other, I would urge you to step back and ask yourself if you had to choose between your mother/husband/wife, or this new imaginary friend of yours to help mitigate your horrible life -which would it be?- realizing that one may be able to give a bit more direct stimulation in relation to the problem at hand than the other.

Prayer is not a mystery but it sure is bizarre that so many defend that act of superstition, which essentially is self-deception. You talking to you is a common conscious act however when people ascribe magical powers to the internal monologue then yikes all kinds of craziness ensues.

There are many ways to rest the mind that do not involve superstition including listening to classical music, practicing Tai Chi, Yoga or taking a dance class.

It is particularly disturbing to hear grown adults promoting superstition, which is emotionally debilitating and making claims about imaginary friends that simply don’t exist. There is a great need for an intellectually evolved superstition-free population.

For most of my life I ridiculed people who prayed. I laughed and mocked the religious people for their fairy tale beliefs. I had it all wrong. Period. I was not the know-it-all that I thought I was. My God was money and more of it. But things began to change, my money and my toys did not buy me the happiness I thought it would. I was always reaching for more of something to fill a void with-in me. Materials pleasures lost their appeal, and I started to notice how angry I would get when spiritual and religious people would talk about their beliefs. Why was I so angry at them? There are hypocrites in every organization, not just religions. Just look at our political parties, but some people still vote regardless of what their leaders do. Their are bad cops, bad soldiers, bad doctors, etc... Yet I never said because there were some bad soldiers, that all soldiers were and are bad. But with religion, it was different, and God too. I took every opportunity to knock religion and God that I could. I think my my disparaging remarks helped me to feel better about myself, and smarter than them. And no, I am not religious. Not yet, maybe later. I just don't mock them now. And yes there are some religious folks that are extreme, I know. But what changed me was Prayer to God. I don't care what sex, race, or name he/she/is. But I believe there is something much bigger than me now. I don't know how it works, or why it works. But it does. For me. Plus I hang out now with like minded people, middle of the road so to speak. Prayer keeps me humble. Vietnam was started by a Democratic President, and continued on for years by another democratic and republican president. 50,000 American soldiers dead. Some of them my friends. God had nothing to do with that war, the present war, or any war. Good old boys and yes, even good old girls start wars. Unfortunately, they hide behind God's name. And God becomes the whipping boy again. This war and terrorism has cost us the life of our only son. And I want to believe with all my heart that he has inherited a happiness and peace that I cannot even began to imagine. I just have to have Faith. Easier said than done at times, but I chose to believe in prayer anyway.

To Sejl

From Bobster: Its your belief. Stick with it, sounds like you got something that alot of people would pay good money for. But then money want buy what you have. keep it simple.

What prayer does Man need now, with all our pollution destroying our Ozone layer, and nuclear bombs buried around our planet on land and sea? Were Humans supposed to be the Caretakers or the Killers of their Home Earth?

All that believe God created Spaceship Earth for a Home for Humans, and that God will return to judge how we took Care of our Home, how will our planet look to God?

It is time to start housecleaning, before the return of God in physical form, to judge how we have lived and taken Care of the Creation of Life on Earth, not how we prayed or worshipped, while we destroyed the Creation.

Peace.

Of course no one believes anyone is enjoying 72 virgins because the entire concept is a completely invented one to begin with-
isnt in the Qur'an- never happened- doesnt exist- created by an old sheikh hundreds of years ago- not accepted in islam- a fallacy and a hoax-

sadly someone dredged this one up out of the annals of time and resurrected it to trick some youngsters-
its a bizarre and disgusting concept and simply a fabrication-
it has nothing to do with treligion and is POLITICS-

just thuoght you all should know-go on- google it on an islamic site (not faithfreedom)

From childhood we are encouraged to believe in fairy tales...and a world that exists in the imagination.
An alternate world where anything can happen;gods and monsters and dragons and...well..you name it.
It's nice to pretend.
But as adults we should be smart enough to separate fantasy from reality.
To fly planes into buildings is what can happen when one really buys into the existence of a supernatural
universe.
Hands up everyone who thinks the 9/11 bombers are now safely in a paradise,each enjoying the company of 72 virgins,etc.
Ridiculous right?
Of course.

The great mystery is that in the 21st century people are still so closed minded to think that just because something cannot be seen, or even completely understood, it is obviously not true...
Lets imagine we took a flat screen TV back 500 years... the people wouldnt understand it (we're assuming that it works etc) but that doesnt mean its not real etc. But, just as the person watching it cannot deny that it does in fact work, so it is with prayer. I dont know how God hears and answers millions of prayers, i just know He hears and answers mine, and that i'm no better or worse than any other person on this planet.
Prayer isnt the act of a passivist, in fact true prayer is worthless without action. We are communicating with a loving, real, existing, breathing, feeling person who like a parent wants us to be happy and to learn and grow.

Prayer is personal, and if somone really wants to find out if prayer is really real or not, they need to ask God, sincerely for the knowledge that He can give. If the desire is genuine enough, God will answer; In His own way and in His own time, but he will answer.

If it is childish to think that our relationship with God is parent-child, then so be it. But i say that the parent child relationship is one of the oldest and noblest of all relationships and one to be highly respected. I love my parents and when i'm old and have had my successes in the "world" i will still love my parents and will still seek advice and counsel from my excelent father and mother.

Yes prayer is a mystery.
Its a mystery that people in the 21st century
waste their time talking to themselves while believing they're talking to an invisible god who lives in the sky.
Definitely a mystery.

There have been many studies done and they all show that prayer effects no change in anything,except perhaps in the mind of the person praying,who may feel better for venting.
If prayer actually worked,we'd all spend most of our time in prayer. It would be well known that prayer changed things...and it wouldn't be controversial.
Prayer is talking to oneself...theres nobody on the other end listening.
Lets get real.

SEJL- you are demonstrating a remarkable maturity-
you have discovered at a young age what some never realize- keep it precious and appreicaite its value as i know you already do-

God bless you and peace

Seiji, Youth and Prayer

Seiji

Listen closely to the Wisdom of Ashley.

When you are grown up,
truly grown up,
you won't need the illusion of an imaginary parent
who takes care of you.

Life is tough. Sometimes you get taken care of well
sometimes the "really take care of you."

You need ot find your own grown up inner strength.

As Heraclitus notes
Buddhism has the longest and most successful
and most fantasty free track record
for helping humans come to terms with their
finitude and mortality

while practicing Loving Kindness towards their fellows.

Christianity and Islam and Judaism have many many times felt the need to commit genocide or other barbarities to convince themselves
that their God is the True God.

Secular humanists have NEVER felt that need.

Good luck in your explorations,
and your quest to be fully and proudly human.

just think of this, we have approx. 7 billion persons on our earth, now lets say that 10% say a prayer that would be 700000000 persons! now if i get tired just listening to one lover do you really think that jesus/god is able to listen to 700000000??
give me a break!!! no way jose! its a scam all this hokus pokus!
religion is the problem NOT the answer!

Norrie
I guessed our thoughts would be compatible.
Northern Maine is very close to ancient Greece.

I've been watching you, and
You have not yet said one word
that I didn't think was wise.

Peace.

Sejl,

I wouldn't worry about the wisdom of your elders too much. Most of us are idiots.

Anyway, I'd like to comment on this from the original post:

"Herbert got it right, too, about prayer pervading everything. It is the glue that binds the cosmos together. Society, science, art: Look deeply enough and you will see that their origins lie in the human search for meaning, a search that begins in prayer and returns, with life's last breath, to prayer."

Even if the human search for meaning began in prayer, which I doubt you have evidence of, what relevance does that hold for our investigations today? As a mathematician, software developer, and lifelong skeptic, I've never needed prayer nor have I ever found it useful. I'm using the term prayer here in a broad, mystical sense - more than mere meditation, but not necessarily a supplication to some particular gods.

The idea that prayer "glues the cosmos together" is hilarious and I assume that statement must be metaphorical. If not, maybe you can point me to some relevant research. Perhaps the prayeron has been discovered in a particle accelerator somewhere.

Finally, I'm not sure what to make of the phrase "a search that begins in prayer and returns, with life's last breath, to prayer." It sounds somewhat like the cliche that "there are no atheists in foxholes", a vulgar insult to non-believing servicemen and servicewomen. In any case, having witnessed the death of non-religious and non-praying loved ones, I can say it is demonstrably false.

Heraclitus,

Your post is true and very nice. I like it.

As Flies to Wanton Boys,
are we to the Gods.

they kill us for their sport.

King Lear.
W Shakespeare

THERE is where the mystery lies.

Buddhism over Prayer

the B man speaks the truth.

Why do we NEED to imagine an All Powerful Guiding Force 'Up there" who listens to our prayers.

Isn't it a regressive, child=like denial of the need to grow up?

Ernst Becker, in his Pulitzer winner Denial of Death, calls this mythology
"Immortality Machines"
myths to take away the necessity of accepting our mortality in a grown up way.

buddhism is the most spiritually developed way to accept our mortality in a grown up way.

Meditate, don't pray.
Meditate on human compassion
Meditate on beauty
Meditate on the flow of the universe
Meditate on the way things are and the way things flow

You get more benefit than prayer
and you lose the illusion of an omniscient God
who kills thousands in tsunamis
and sends babies to their death with childhood diseases.

I am young and not near as wise as some of my elders, but this is what I know of prayer- it works and is necessary. When I sincerely pray I receive answers and comfort.
Perhaps if I prayed about my mortgage payment it wouldn't go away, but then, I think that everyone needs to struggle and that God is answering ones prayers by allowing them to make their mortgage and see that they can do it.
The key to prayer for me is sincerity and faith. I have to faith that it will work out, faith that perhaps my prayers may not be answered right away or that I may not get the answer that I want, but in the end, I know it is the right answer.
And for me, communicating with my Heavenly Father is what is important. I talk to parents on a daily basis, why should I not communicate with Him, who blesses me everyday. It is such a comfort to know that there is always someone to talk to, that at anytime of the day or night I can get down on my knees and pray and know that He is there, listening.

I think the purpose of Prayer is speak with our Father in Heaven. If there are benfits to be had mentally, socially, spiritually etc, these are incidental to the importance that we communicate with our loving Father. Just as a child speak s with its father communication should be open and honest, speaking as if He were a friend, or loving parent... which He is! I think we dont always get what we want, like having the mortgage all paid... :) just as a child doesnt always get what it wants when the parent lovingly witholds from the child. But i know that God lives and hears my prayers. He is there, and is concerned about me. I think prayer is no mystery. I dont know how God hears all our prayers, or how they get to Him etc, but i know that if we are sincere, then God will hear, and if we have faith to act of our own free will to do good, and to act on the answer He gives, then he will answer.

OH JESUS PLEEZE DRYCE (ABOVE) WHAT A HOKUS/POKUS WAKE-UP AND GET A LIFE!!!!!

To me, prayer focuses the mind, which is the Earthly manifestation of the soul. The Body is the mind, not the brain. The brain is the body's coordinator, the manager, but it alone is not the mind. Does that make sense? Mind over matter? It can be as mundane as you picking up a pencil or as seemingly supernatural as telekinesis. The question I have for you is this, If Christ were alive today, would he, (or she) pick 12 men or 12 women as his Apostles? (Okay 11 and 1 perhaps) smile... God Bless you all.

DARLINGS PLEEZEE PRAYER IS A SCAM ITS A WASTE OF TIME,THERE IS NO THERE ,THERE.
DO THIS TEST : ASK JESUS/GOD TO MAKE YOUR MORTGAGE PAYMENT AND SEE HOW FAST YOU WILL BE A HOMELESS PERSON!
RELIGION IS THE PROBLEM AND NOT THE ANSWER!

the act is one of worship which is very difficult- of a giving of love which is not always easy to produce on demand- of submission to ALLAH- to his will- to an active offering of my poor and unworthy devotion- with seconds of asking forgiveness for my sins my weaknesses and trying to be quiet and listen after its done. followed by prayers for a widening circle of peoples and then everyone- and then personal petitions of ways to improve my self- asking for a greater desire to pray- for the value of the prayer to be increased and health and other odd requests-
was that what you meant or did i misunderstand-
i had to ponder over the meaning for a minute-

'. ..great flower unfolding moving across the face of the earth in a rhythm and like a great unseen dance,..'Victoria says.

Beautiful imagery of the 'ritual'. How is the act, implicit in the ritual, accounted for?

Buddhist Meditation is Far More Efficacious Than Prayer.

Whether or not there is a God, even scientists will tell us that Prayer has SOME Benefits.

But we can get all those Benefits and MORE if we
as Norrie recommends
Practice Buddhist Meditation
rather than prayer.

Study its benefits if you aren't familiar with it.

It is a 3,000 year old Spiritual Practice, the most highly developed in the world.

AND
it avoids the Supernatural Mythological dependence on God or Zeus or Allah.

I am really happy to see someone talk about prayer in this forum- as a muslim- prayer is a most ever constant force in my life- my husband and i rise before sunrise every day and join in prayer- and during the day wherever he is- i know that were both praying around the same time-

one of the most beautiful things ive contemplatd is the fact that when i think of the entire world as a whole- (muslims pray at strictly proscribed times)
i know that like a great flower unfolding moving across the face of the earth in a rhythm and like a great unseen dance (well seen by ALLAH) thereis the pattern of the rising and prostrating of believers in some beautiful unison- like the greatest most sublime clock of adoration- and that anygiven secondin the day or night- constantly as the sun moves in its orbit- there is osmeone saying the words we all say- in the same language-in a perfect harmony, with the eact same intent-worship and a giving of the heart to our god- just giving-(we do the petition part after prayer if we choose)

thanks for giving me the chance to express this.

peace and salaams

it is in this we all share a certain cohesiveness isnt it