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Norrie,
Do you really want him to expand? He hates any sort of faith and thinks it's a bunch of horse-pucky...

I prefer the short and sour version, it makes it easier to skip to more interesting posts...

BOB,

Why do you keep posting "WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!" or other words of similar import? Can't you do better than that?

Please, tell us why you think so.

Thanks.

Dear Rabbi Steinsalz

Thank you for writing so well about a very important aspect of prayer life and spirituality. As a believer I don't worry about the threat of atheism. But I do worry about religious hypocrisy and pseudo religion. As an insider to faith, I consider it important for insiders like you to point out what is right and wrong about religious practice in their own religious tradition, so that believers may have an opportunity to correct themselves and experience the real fruits of their faith.

In the Bible, Jesus condemned religious hypocrisy as he condemned nothing else. I think the Bible makes it pretty clear that God doesn't need our external acts of piety that does not bring our hearts as offering to God and the transformation of our whole selves.

"By their fruits shall ye know them."

As one who learnt Zen meditation in a Christian setting, we were taught to ignore all feelings and thoughts during meditation. We were taught to deliberately ignore all thoughts, visions, feelings that may arise, not matter how wonderful they may be, in order to arrive at stillness and silence. We were taught that wonderful thoughts and visions and feelings could be just as deceptive during times of meditation as terrible thoughts, feelings and visions.

Books written about Christian contemplation have emphasised that the fruit of meditation is not measured by the number of wonderful thoughts, feelings or visions one may have during meditation, but by the manifestation of Godly qualities in one's life.

In this day and age when spirituality has become the catchword even among atheists, it is important to keep in mind what is really important, and to have a simple litmus test to separate the goats from the sheep.

Thank you for highlighting some aspects of the false emphasis placed on emotions in relation to religious worship.

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

This crap is insufferably stupid. I'm otta here.

When you are caught in the abyss of subjectivity, only an objective principle can you find your way out. It is proven that we become self destructive in the material existence alone, as much as starvation in the spiritual nature alone. That is why the standpoint between heaven and earth detaches all our material aspects to purify our passage to the spirit. Jesus represents the human element of the spirit to bridge us between self destruction and total starvation. Along the passage some have made gods of materials, others have declared themselves gods... But you will find the true nature of humanity among the suffering, which is the result of neglect of our spiritual nourishment.

Dear Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz. Might I most respectfully suggest to you that you are centered far too much entirely in the brain...not even the mind which encompasses the entire physical body. You mention yawning. Yawning is a reflex, a autonomic stretching exercise to reinvigorate the body and the mind. To get you out of a mind-numbing rut. You are quite correct that it is a socially triggered event as well. When on in the group yawns, it signals the others that the person needs to be stroked, acknowledged, loved. I recall years ago listening to an NPR interview on my way home. A researcher was talking about the yawning reflex. On and on he spoke of it, until finally he said the the interviewer that he was willing to bet many of the listeners were yawning right at that moment. At that point, I had been yawning so much Rabbi, that I had considered either turning the station or pulling over to the shoulder because it was beginning to interfer with my concentration on the road. God is Love. If you have Faith in God, you have Faith in Love. You can love someone, and you can be in love with someone. There is a difference, but in the end Love conquers all. Does that make sense wise Master of Jewish Faith? If not, please let me know. Can I share a joke with you? Laughter is a healthy solitary and social reflex as well. Here it goes:

It is from Scary Movie 3 [2003]
Directed by David Zucker
Tom, as played by Charlie Sheen
M&M PEANUT [or George if you prefer]as played by Simon Rex

Tom: That Tractor needs fixin’!
M&M PEANUT: Sorry Dog. I can’t help ya. I have to get ready for my show!
Tom: Not that stupid HipHop stuff again! Damn it M&M PEANUT. When are you going to do something with your life?
M&M PEANUT: I got dreams!
Tom: What is your dream?
M&M PEANUT: To have a dream!
Tom: M&M PEANUT, All you have done is chase adolescent fantasies. I want to be an Astro_naught; a Cowboy; a gynecologist of the stars! And now this stupid Hip Hop thing!

M&M PEANUT: For your information, this stupid hiphop thing is gonna get me paid [bus horn in the background accents the point made here BEEP BEEP!] I am gonna win that rap battle tomorrow night!
Tom: Rap Battle? Oh for gosh sakes!
M&M PEANUT: You just hate me cause I’m black! You don’t have any faith in me! You don’t have any faith in anything anymore! So why don’t you just worry about taking care of you [stepping back down into the bus entry steps and sticking his neck out] And I’ll worry about [bus doors close on M&M PEANUT’s neck] aggagghhh. aggggahhffaggg
Tom looks genuinely concerned as bus drives off with M&M PEANUT’s head sticking out of the doors. Fade to next scene.

Have Faith Rabbi. I know that which is in my heart. I love her, but I love God first. If I know anything at all in this life, I know those two things to be true. God Bless you and yours young man. May God continue to Love and Guide you all the days of your life and beyond. amen.

Peter Jackson

Prayer and Self Delusion by Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz. Who said there must be lasting results from a prayer if it is to be a real prayer and not just an illusionsry prayer
Feb. 4, 2007
Along these lines I had a suprising result a while ago. I had a certain prayer I used for peace and harmony. I also used to say it whenever my mind became confused and worried and it worked very promptly.
Well, one day my mind was tired, confused, worried and frustrated, so I thought to myself, I am going to say that prayer, and as I was about to start saying it, I stopped, in surprise, as my mind had already become clear and peaceful, before I could even start saying the prayer. The result had happened before the prayer, but after the intention to say it. I went ahead and said it anyway.

THIS EXPERIENCE CERTAINLY SHOWS NOT ONLY THE POWER OF PRAYER, BUT ALSO THE SUBCONSCIOUS POWER OF PRAYER TO AFFECT OUR LIVES, EVEN TO SUBCONSCIOUSLY CONTROL OUR THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS:
AND THE POWER TO BUILD CHACTER.

Interesting Mr. Rabbi
The genuine remains of true feelings are still with the individual, but now his/her experience risks misinterpretation by the observer. We know in modern religion the preachers condemn everything in public from dust to dawn, and to suggest a preacher to judge the authenticity of one’s prayer is a dangerous practice.

The remains of one's true feelings cannot always be positive or objective. Therefore if one's God imposes punishment and condemnation like the modern preachers do all the time, the individual's life is ruined.

And thus the very purpose of prayer has counteractive results for social organisations. I am happy with individuals to pray as they wish knowing that prayer is not harmful, and allow God to receive however God wants it.

Meanwhile, prayer serves another useful public purpose before meetings and it helps break the ice and encourage people to communicate with others especially with those they haven’t met.

However, I can tell you that some external places do exist and cannot be brought into our material world; instead we have to enter into that external entity in order to experience it. Belief in such phenomenon takes a leap of faith and subject us to a mental and psychological examination, but let me share it anyway.

This is truth, and it's not a dream or thought. A boy and his friend (female) were in a state of awareness between sleep and awake, the boy got up and went to lie beside his friend and cuddle her. At exactly the same moment the girl saw her friend came near her and cuddled her. It wasn't until she realized that her friend didn’t have a physical body that she was disturbed exactly the same time the boy was, and they both regained full consciousness. They just looked at each other not knowing whether it was a dream, but they didn't talk about it until later the girl told the boy what she thought was a dream. Half way through it the boy told the rest of her so-called dream. That was one layer of existence they discovered, but the boy went further and beyond that... it's a true story but like I said, it takes a leap of faith and subject to psychological and mental examinations for disclosing it.

It may not be possible to bring external reality to our world, but we are more than likely to travel to a different layer of existence.

With all respect, this is about as nonsensical a piece as I have seen.

If you pray and feel good and the feeling lasts then it worked!

The sympathetic reflex of yawning ... actually I was ready to yawn by about that point.

As for the false pregnancy, what if we had a false abortion? Would that be okay by Roe v Wade and would that be okay by the right wing yahoos since there really was no life?

How do you conjure up this kind of claptrap?

the rabbi has elucidated clearly what i have experienced in a variety of meditations and prayer forms- the seeking after physical sensation that has marked different forms of meditaiton- but the blissful feeling disappears when confronted with an unpleasant reality- the over emotional throngs of the faithful in various postures of ecstasy-
all serve as distractions to prayer which grounds us in the realities around us and help us to connect with deeper discernment and stronger compassion for the other humans we encounter.
to me it is an appetite that must be fed regularly
peace

The Rabbi and Mr Meacham

like James
i found the Rabbi's words a breath of fresh air.

especially when the follow Mr Meacham's defensive and prickly and argumentative and historically challenged orientation towards Faith and those who have different views about it than he does.

I too am a spiritual atheist humanist, and i found the Rabbi's thoughts most inclusive of all humans of good will.

Rabbi, O Wise One

I am a person who highly values spiritual experience (especially through music) and is an atheist.

The Rabbi's words "ring very true" to me.

His description seems to me a wise and deep sketch of the true spiritual path humans can take.

I am more of a buddhist than a Jew (though i would be a Jew if i were to adopt a religion, or perhaps a muslim)

and the kind of spiritual striving that buddhists describe seems very compatihle with what the Rabbi talkes about here.

love to you Rabbi for your wisdom and compassion.

For myself, I believe that a spiritual experience is the actual journey, not the destination. I did not always think so. I agree with the Rabbis statement 'that if there was a change, then there was an experience" But the doubt that I am on the right path does return to me at times. With inner conflict as well. I view my life now as a spiritual journey . I compare it to climbing a mountian. At times the climb is extremely difficult, partly because I refuse to empty my rucksack of old beliefs that are weighing me down, and impeding my progress. But then there are the times when I just know it is right. Not because my intellect, and or emotions tell me so. But because I just know it. I wish sometimes that I could have that feeling forever, but then I realize the reason I can't is because I am human. I get just enough to keep me climbing, and hopefully to disgard another "useless belief". Those "conscious contacts" are what makes my belief in God all worth the doubt, and conflict. In short, " I know when I have, and I sure as heck know when I don't!"