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WE have HIS word that is

HE have HIS word HE'd let us know-

He hasn't changed His mind yet? And you know this how? Perhaps the problem is that He has.

wow anonymous- you forgot that god was the one that decided on the diaspora-

hasnt changed HIS mind yet- hence the problems

Victoria said:

"the right of israel to terrorize and imprison the original inhabitants- and steal their land-"

Original inhabitants? You have GOT to be kidding. Original after they took it from the Jewish people...

thatis why palestinians are confronting their neighbor who stole from them anonymous

no of course not- zimbabwe wasnt te country offered to zionists to rescue hundreds of thousands of refugees-
ghana was- (by the way they refused saying that all the european jews werent worth one cow in israel)

go figure

Correction - I had intended to say, "I need to emphasize that most members of the groups do NOT act so defensively."

Victoria,

You and your fellow Muslims need to do first things first. Renounce and condemn the militaristic and demeaning passages of the Koran then you can criticize.

what happens when you have 2 neighbours who steal from you and you always choose to confront only the one.is that ok.ie are you actively involved in the blog on zimbabwe and if not why israel over zimbabwe.(ther isnt a blog on that whys that)

possibly anonymous you missed the question-

why dont you propose a question on human rights abuses in the world to the blog?

and it is a poor excuse to deflect criticism by pointing out the abuses of others-
what is your point?

are you saying that because your neighbor steal its okay for you to steal a little?

this logic has no validity-

i think you are all missing the well made point which is,why arent all the other countries in the world held to the same moral standards as israel.why do you not mention the misery of african countries like zimbabwe who make israels supposed transgressions look like that of angels in comparison.the same goes for putin,china against falung gong,most of the middle easterns terrible history of treating their citizens.i agree as do most jews that israel is making and has made serious errors as have all other countries but i do not single them out as most of you self righteous people do

Victoria,

Yes we know you are an anti-zionist but we also know you refuse to renounce and condemn the militaristic and demeaning passages of your Koran. Until you do that your likes and dislikes are simply "whistling in the wind".

thats intersting points you both bring up- here in new york the past few days weve been asked onthe news to sign a pledge to not use the N-word-

http://943wybc.com/event_guide/stopthenwordcontract.html

the point brought up by pooh that anti-semites have used the word 'jew' in a dreogatory way is te reason i always take the time to write 'jewish people'

i am anti-zionist myself- but so are many of my jewish friends-

there is no relation between zionism and jewishness- although many jewish people themselves dont get this- and christians- muslims- etc...

Unless some writings here are from inside an asylum all lunatics are certainly not in an asylum!!!

Pooh, from my reading of your post, I think you are missing my main point and making grossly incorrect assumptions about my beliefs.

My point has nothing to do with "trusting members of the group to speak for the group." I don't know where you got that idea. I do not believe in the concept of "speaking for a group."

What I'm saying is that all tribalism is wrong, regardless of ethnicity or culture or religion. Among these groups, there are members who apply one standard to criticism within the group. But when someone outside the group voices the same criticisms, these members are quick to take offense, automatically assuming that the outside critics are motivated by prejudice. Whether the criticism itself is valid or invalid is not the point. I need to emphasize that most members of the groups act so defensively.

About your response to my point about the N-word, it makes a hell of a lot of a difference to me what some (not all) blacks call themselves. Both blacks and non-blacks have fought and suffered to reduce racism in society. When some young blacks use the N-word for themselves, they imply that the racists are right, even when that isn't their intention.

You are correct that "words used by ethnic communities often have a completely different meaning outside those communities." What I'm saying is that the world should not be that way, because that simply perpetuates distrust and false barriers between communities. How can communities have productive dialogue when they can't even agree on what words mean?

"There are elements in many ethnic and religious groups that tolerate certain types of criticism from their own members but do not tolerate it from outsiders."

Having employed the language of the typical anti-Semite ("tribal defensiveness"), you then attempt to justify your highly selective criticism by referring to other groups. I see through this charade. When you suggest that Americans cannot be trusted to speak for America, I might start to believe that your argument is built on something other than intractable prejudice.

The important issues:

1) The whole premise of Cohen's argument is a lie. No Jew suggests that criticism of Israel amounts to anti-Semitism. We do suggest however that the deligitimisation of Israel and the calls for its destruction does amount to anti-Semitism. An example of constructive criticism: "I believe that the U.S. should never have gone to war in Iraq". An example of illegitimate criticism, the kind of "criticism" of which we complain: "The U.S. is an evil nation; her creation was a mistake".

2) The notion that Jews cannot be trusted to speak the truth especially on matters concerning themselves has been part and parcel of anti-Semitic thinking ever since anti-Semitism began.

3) That virtually all Jews are loyal to something other than themselves has been proved on many occasions. A few examples: in World War I when Jews in Germany fought Jews in Britain; in the fact that a much higher percentage of U.S. Jews are against the war in Iraq than anyone else; in the fact that 40% of large gifts to charity in the U.S. are made by Jews, and virtually none of that is given to Israel or Jewish charities; in the fact that the vast majority of U.S. Jews support a political party which betrayed the Jewish people during the Holocaust and is often ambivalent about Israel (or, in the case of individuals like Carter, displays naked hatred).

4) What those Jews who wish to destroy and deligitimise Israel are really concerned about has nothing to do with "freedom of expression" and everything to do with the particular anger they feel about their views not being accepted in the wider community.

5) Since time immemorial some Jews have betrayed their fellow Jews to anti-Semites. The worst type (a type that seems to be very common amongst the Jewish Israel haters) are the those who otherwise have nothing to do with Judaism and only use it in an effort to try and armour-plate themselves against charges of anti-Semitism when defaming Israel. In similar fashion, those Jews are frequently used by the gentiles who wish to destroy Israel against the same charges: "How can I possibly be anti-Semitic when X and Y who are both Jews say the same things?"

6) If we cannot trust Jews to speak about Israel, why should we trust gentiles who have spent the best part of two thousand years defaming Jews and persecuting them? Can gentiles be trusted to put the good of the United States about their own hatred of Jews?

Incidentally, the example you give is not only absolutely absurd, but also it once again betrays those prejudices of yours I mention above:

1) What possible difference could it make to you what black people call themselves?

2) Words used by ethnic communities often have a completely different meaning outside those communities. Take the seemingly innocuous word "Jew" which has been used since time immemorial by anti-Semites to attack the Jewish people.

3) The reaction by black people to the N-word as you put it (in the U.S. even racists appear to have delicate sensibilities) shows an inventiveness and adaptability on their part which is admirable.

4) Your use of Pryor mirrors exactly the use anti-Semites make of anti-Zionist Jews when attacking Israel (see the other 4 above).

A final word.

China engages in the worst human rights abuses on the planet. Furthermore, she has stolen Tibet and murdered at least one million of that nation's citizens. Putin is probably the world's most evil man. On his watch, he has engaged in genocide in Chechenya and done his very best to arm virtually every country which opposes Western interests. If Iran does destroy Israel with nuclear weapons it will be mainly down to Putin. Where is the outrage on the pages of the Washington Post about China and Putin?

During the Holocaust, the world stood silent as 1.5 million Jewish children were murdered. After the birth of Israel, that same world is obsessed with Israel - she never shuts up about her. As far as the Jew is concerned, he cannot win. At least with Israel we can go down fighting and no longer can be herded into gas chambers while nations like the United States and Britain hold their noses and avert their gaze.

To reiterate:

Yes indeed, one can criticize Israelis (and Palestinians) without being anti-Semitic or anti-Arab.

In hindsight, UN Resolution 181, (1947) which partitioned the Palestine territories in two parts, one Israeli and one Palestinean was a mistake. The UN should have recognized that conflicts over Jerusalem, water rights and land deeds would create significant tensions and bloodshed. The territory should have remained under permanent UN control.

The solution: Israel should honor the original UN Resolution 181 and move its borders accordingly. The borders should be maintained by walls and fences and guarded by UN troops. Jerusalem should be made an international city governed by the UN and its troops. Water should be distributed based on population and water desalination plants built and maintained by the oil-rich nations of the region. Economic development and education should be funded by the same countries plus support from the likes of the USA, Russia, China, Australia and the European Union.

Separation of incompatible peoples does work as shown by the separation of Czechoslovakia and also the Balkan state breakups.

"Only Jews are ever accused of such things."

I do not agree. There are elements in many ethnic and religious groups that tolerate certain types of criticism from their own members but do not tolerate it from outsiders. They justify that double standard by claiming, as I pointed out, that they cannot trust the motives of outside critics. I see that kind of insularity as a mistake because people become too afraid to air constructive criticism without worrying about others overreacting. Such double standards serve to reinforce barriers between peoples instead of breaking down the barriers.

As an example, look at how many hip-hop stars and other young blacks glorify the use of the N-word among themselves. But they are be outraged, and rightly so, when non-blacks use the word. It's sad that these blacks do not see that the N-word will never have any meaning other than hateful racism. Richard Pryor used to think as they did, but he later famously disowned the word which was the right thing to do.

"Very true. I am tempted to believe that elements are acting out of tribal defensiveness, an unwillingness to trust the motives of outside critics. One sees it in families, with siblings quarreling among themselves but allying against outside threats."

Only Jews are ever accused of such things. Employing the same logic no American should ever be trusted to speak the truth about American affairs. Indeed, on that basis given the long history of anti-Semitism around the world and the almost complete betrayal of the Jews during the Holocaust, even by the United States, no gentile should ever be trusted when he criticises Israel.

The blatant intellectual dishonesty of this piece is utterly breathtaking. No one outside of the confines of a lunatic asylum has ever suggested that it is anti-Semitic to criticise Israel and Cohen knows this very well. What has been complained about is the holding of Israel to a completely different standard to the rest of the world, and the deligitimisation of Israel, and the calls for its destruction. Those who engage in such activities have decided to hide behind a lie worthy of a Goebbels or a Streicher to maintain the notion that they are not anti-Semitic.

It is this kind of lie that is directly feeding the rise in anti-Semitism. When Jews are beaten on the streets of France and Belgium, those who are in large part responsible are the very people who perpetuate such lies.

In July of last year Cohen wrote the following: "The greatest mistake Israel could make at the moment is to forget that Israel itself is a mistake." As a result, and quite understandably, Cohen became one of the most hated figures in the worldwide Jewish community. His suggestion that he has come under attack merely because he has criticised Israel is a complete untruth which will do absolutely nothing to salvage his reputation amongst those Jews. He blithely speaks of an "offense against memory". However, it is he and not us who spits on the unmarked graves of millions of Jewish dead.

I see that Elie Wiesel was recently attacked. Why do some people deny that the extermination of the jews happened?

It is a part of history. Why deny it? What is to be gained?

I know this is off the topic matter. I am a christian who does not hate jews or muslims.

I would appretiate some insight.

As far as the crisis in the Middle East. What ever has been done in the past isn't working too well, is it?

How can peace ever be attained when there is such -hate- for one anothers religion?

If you talk about mild criticisms like accusing the govenrment of becoming corrupt like sicily-

it is a convenient way to distract people from the real questions that need to be asked=-

if the corruption of the internal government were the issue every country can be accused of that!

the right of israel to terrorize and imprison the original inhabitants- and steal their land-

the apartheid practices and laws in place of "the democracy" of israel-

the policy of no right of return to the palestinians because that would give them a political voice in that "democracy"

the racist policy that only allows jews to immigrate

for starters-

thats needed criticism

the fact that the prime minister is being under investigation because the population feels he didnt successfully kill enough lebanese- and are looking for any reason to discredit him-

the fact that just yesterday israel sent troops into nablus deliberately trying to destabilize the tenuous peace process-

that is needed criticism

"Nonetheless, certain elements of the American Jewish community are much too quick to confuse genuine and often constructive criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, thereby silencing voices that Israel (and America) desperately needs to hear."

Very true. I am tempted to believe that elements are acting out of tribal defensiveness, an unwillingness to trust the motives of outside critics. One sees it in families, with siblings quarreling among themselves but allying against outside threats.