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Since the Fall, all people have been dying and killing in the name of God. God said, Thou Shalt Not Kill, and Jesus said, Turn The Other Cheek. Who follows them? Are they empty words for Fallen Man?

God created Spaceship Earth with Life as we know it, and the Species Human was to be the Caretaker of All Life. After the Fall, Man divided and began killing each other and it has continued up to today and we can now make nuclear bombs that can blow up God's creation. Why? For the Love of God?

Christians that love Jesus are now in a pre-emptive war. Is that following Jesus? Is this Christ-like? What kind of Caretakers are we when we have polluted our Ozone Layer, and have trash dumps on land and sea? Why do we have oil spills and nuclear bombs all over the planet on land and sea?

Is it time to Unite and clean up the dying planet, before God and Jesus return for the Judgement Day, or will we blow up the planet first? It is up to Humans what they do to their Home. What has prayer done in the past? We need action today. It is for us to take Care of Earth, not wait for God to do it, while we keep Killing.

Peace.

America has historically used Religion as an opiate to relieve or obscure the pain of knowing what they do, or have done in the name of Manefest Destiny is morally reprehensible. Let us make no mistake about it. Americans should be among the last of the Nationalities claiming moral superiority. That is fact, accept it, or reject it. I really care not. The souls of the Children are of paramont concern to me at this point. God Bless you and yours.

I recently moved from chicago and spent many a pleasant afternoon on devon- a few short blocks away is a strong jewish community- on 63rd street in the southside is a charity organization called sanad run by a giant hearted and deeply loved palestinian woman named fatima- last ramadan the local synagogue invited the muslims to break their fast among jewish people, christians, and muslims all dedicated to opening the lines of communication and creating a wholesome community for all-
sanad has a food bank and social services that are available to any who needs them- and IMAN an organization down the street does so much community work it is simply impossible to list- but if you go down there 3 oclock any week day- youll find it packed with local kids learning computer skills- and often there isnt a musliom among them- it is open to all people- in the true spirit of charity- and islam-

i served as a liaison to the morton grove community (mostly polish) when the mosque and school was being built- and people are people and respond to good manners and all want to live in peace-
chicago has a large muslim community and is proving that we truly can live together in peace and love

salaams

I wrote the previous post...sorry...forgot to type the name.

Dave,
you sound like an outdated ideologue! read what you wrote:..Britain was abolishing slavery across most of the World. Colonialism is slavery! Guess where the shackles to keep the slaves in the South chained? From Britain....No, Britain was not technologically more advanced than the US; you guy had more than you needed.
I do not know why you brought the idea of honor killing? Honor killing is absurd, though many people believe the way Princess Dianne life ended was nothing but a form of honor killing. She was out with the son of a ...WHAT??? the son of an Egyptian immigrant!! The royal structure would not want any part of this...El -Fayid son is not a 'true' British. (hello...would diversity stand up...would equality shake its booty in what Dave claims to be uber alles!). Nah, the mother of a future king of England might marry a Brit (????) of Egyptian ancestry....one of those who lived in one of 'our territories!!

In any case, Dave, do not forget to take your pills.

And some culturally and religiously diverse traditions should not be celebrated at all.
But stamped out by the host country with extreme prejudice.

Sadly we're too PC to do it.

From 'Stop Honour Killings'

Samaira Nazir rejected Pakistani suitors chosen by her family and planned to elope with her Afghan boyfriend. The penalty for her defiance: death from 18 stab wounds inflicted by her brother and cousin at the family home in Southall, England.

More than a dozen women are killed for violating community standards each year in the UK, according to police. While Nazir's killers were jailed for life.

There is a kid-gloves approach on the basis that you don't want to offend these communities, says Usha Sood, a lawyer and lecturer at Nottingham Trent University who specializes in forced marriage cases. If you take into account the whole range of honor offenses, the number runs into the thousands.'

Combating honor violence is one element of the UK's struggle to assimilate its 1.6 million Muslims.

Police are struggling to identify honor crimes because family members and neighbors often regard them as just punishment. Victims are often targeted because of sexual orientation or for relationships with outsiders.

The true impact of honor violence can't be measured by crime statistics alone, says Veena Raleigh, who teaches epidemiology and public health at the University of Surrey in Guilford, England. In Britain, the suicide rate among first-generation Asian women, aged 15 to 24, is more than TWICE the national average, according to her research: The evidence suggests that these women found themselves trapped by social factors and feeling there was not an escape for them.

"When I came here in 1996 I thought honor killings only happened in other countries", says Nammi, a Kurd who was born in Iran and also lived in Iraq. "I thought that with the better education and more freedom here, it wouldn't be a problem, but soon after I came here I found honor killings happening here".

I would like to know what the offical statistics are in America.

According to Mr Patel who, I am sure, means well, "In addition to being Muslims, Christians, Jews and Hindus, they are neighbors and Americans."

I would phrase it this way:

DESPITE being Muslims, Christians, Jews and Hindus, some people in the United States and elsewhere manage to moderate their belief in the preposterous creation myths, hypocritical lovey-dovey sentiments that mask xenophobia, ethnophobia, and bigotry, and scriptural texts that say everything and can therefore be used to prohibit anything, require anything, or justify anything, and be good neighbors who strive to live with their fellow human beings, Americanor otherwise.

And I might also add that it was Britain that started the abolition of the slave trade.

Whereas one half of America went to war with the other half to keep the slave trade, killing fellow Americans because it was THAT important to them to keep Black men in shackles...Britain was abolishing slavery across most of the World.

Remember that too!

OH..and might I add, after your great history lesson about 'old' Britain and 'old' Europe and how you obviously think we and our societies are all ancient and racist.....

It was not okay in the eyes of certain Police forces, certain Judges, certain local Government officials...A MERE 30/35 YEARS AGO...ANYWHERE in Europe or the UK to burn out of their homes and even hang (in the street no less) Black people!

It WAS okay in a big chunk of America though (God bless it indeed) as short a time ago as the 60's and 70's.
OUCH!!!

So you should remember that the next time you think you have the arrogance to preach about the history (and the present) of my country.

----the topic I was talking about is diversity, not Islamism. you are barking the wrong tree.---

But the point is that Islam is destroying the faith and good will to see that the embracing of diversity remains strong and welcomed by the host country and it's people.

And all that Islamists do to sabotage that...examples have been listed and many many more could be...is in fact the PRIME point of any such discussion.

-----children of immigrants get to adopt the mores of the host culture----

Many of those Islamists arrested in the Uk (and indeed some of those who carried out the London attacks) were born in the UK and raised as British citizens.
Radical Islam is getting stronger and stronger in Universities in Europe AND AMERICA...normally from those very children (with a modern, Western education no less, which also makes no difference to Islams uncompromising hold on them!) you claim are adopting the mores of the host country!

So in fact the opposite is happening to your fluffy fanatasy...Muslims, even those born and raised in The West, have become more and more radical. Not less.
They are embracing less and less of what America and its allies stand for or their cultures.

THIS is why Islam is not the wrong issue...it's the MAIN issue as far as cultural/racial/religious diversity goes.
As it is perhaps the one and only thing that can destroy it, as more and more host country populations (AS WELL AS other non-Muslim minorities in those countries) feel more and more under attack and beseiged and see that in fact Muslims do NOT want a cultural diversity (let alone a cultural whole) but simply want an adoption of Islamic rules, laws and doctrines in every country they settle in.

Dave,
again, chill. the topic I was talking about is diversity, not Islamism. you are barking the wrong tree.

Immigrants, irrespective of religion or ethnicity, go throw a sorting process where the old ways give way to the new ways of the new home. Old habits die slow; eventually, if given a chance, children of immigrants get to adopt the mores of the host culture. This is true only if the host culture is hospitable, like that of the good old US. British social structure is class based and racist; the Brits can not do anything about it. The old Europe!
Oh, boy, the dynamism of the American social structure. May God Bless American, not only for the abundant 'fish and chips' only, rather for the big heart it has shown the world.

CENTER:

You also seem to be under the bizarre delusion I said America was not successfully diverse or fair.

I never said anything of the sort...

I stated that, just like the UK (just like most if Europe in fact), America's success at making many different cultures and races part of a whole society was under constant threat of sabotage from Islamists.

And all the examples and comparisons to show that are in my above posts.

Do try to read more carefully this time.

CENTER:

Well before you start insulting (where that came from I do not know...i never insulted America) my country you should in fact take more notice of your own!

Senator Obama??? I guess you fail to read the news, as his is the PERFECT example of what I just said above!

What has Senator Obama just had to SCREAM to the rooftops he is NOT?
What has just been so vital to prove?
What has just become the issue to totally disassociate himself from?

Well...it was the accusations just a few days ago that he was a Muslim!!

The most important thing for Senator Obama and his people was not what he WAS...BUT WHAT HE WASN'T!
That he is Black was not seen as a problem.
That he is the Son of an immigrant was not seen as a problem.
THE THOUGHT HE MAY BE CLASSED A MUSLIM WAS A PROBLEM!

I guess you must have missed all that in your deep study of modern Britain (sarcasm piled on real strong).

SO AGAIN... It seems the biggest enemies to peaceful, suuccesful, two-way, respectful cultural diversity are the Islamists.

When one ethnic minority living in America wants to be totally seperated from another who may be mostly Muslims...it not only shows the unique trouble Islam causes for Westerners/Americans but for ALL ethnic minorities who try to live peacefully in The West.

Dave,
Chill! The Britain you talk about is zilch compared to the beautiful US. In Britain, they refer to anyone who is not white as 'black'. Diversity in Britain!, my foot. True, Britain took people from its former colonies; it has (as a people) refused to integrate its new citizens in the mainstream of society. These people are citizens, yes, with a yawn.
Dave you can not say that about the US. Have your heard of Senator Obama, the son of an immigrant who is being 'pushed' to run for the highest office in the land: the President of the US?
That is diversity in its pristine form; it is worth remembering and boasting about. Can't find that in Britain as a social practice; yeah, one could find it in books, mostly outdated books! It is worth remembering that irrespective of which Britain or the US celebrate diversity more, it is not a zero sum game. Truth to be told: British social structure is fossilized; it is no match to the dynamic and vibrant social structure found in the good old USA.

Dave, admit it; Britain would benefit from the US experiment in thinking as continent rather than an island whose power is fading fast.
I love it when Blair comes her to get 'suggestions' from the Office of the President of the US
.
Think about it.

As to the Somalis/Muslims, one finds weird people are all over. Britain as well as the US has Nazi sympathizers.... Diversity, much like democracy, has its costs. Like other immigants, they will change becasue the social structure in the US is evolving.

The fact is this diversity can work, but not with Islamists whom sabotage it at every level in every country they are in.

A point of fact...Indians in the UK have recently been making very public moves NOT to be simply classed as 'Asian' as that description tends to make people think of Pakistani Muslims.
And quite frankly they don't want to be lumped in with them. And no wonder!

ESPECIALLY as Pakistani Muslims have attacked India over the years. Recently an Islamist bomb attack on an Indian railway caused many Indian deaths.

So Islam is not only the greatest risk to mainly White/Western/Christian/Secular societies themselves, but ALSO to the OTHER ethnic minorities and other religions that simply want to live in The West in peace and harmony.

NO ONE seems to have a harder time at living in peace and harmony than Muslims though, who go out of their way to not only dis-respect the host culture and its people and refuse to live under the host country's laws but they also spend as much time as possible trying to totally isolate and alienate themselves from literally EVERYONE ELSE in the countries they are in!

Westerners are endlessly told to respect the host countries laws, values and culture (and indeed I have not heard anything to dispute that this DOES indeed happen) and yet it seems it never works the other way around.

You only have to do a simple comparison!!

I don't hear of Westerners in Islamic countries carrying alcohol aroudnd the streets of countries it is banned in.

I don't hear of Western women walking around in short skirts and tight tops in Islamic streets.

I don't hear of them calling for their own laws.

I don't hear of priests standing up in churches (if indeed any churches are even allowed!!!) and calling for the members of that host country to be classed as enemies that will conform or face the consequences.

AND YET we have Muslims in America refusing to pick up people in their taxis for carrying alocohol.

And yet we have Muslim women in the UK insisting they will wear full veil in classrooms and even courtrooms.

And yet we have Muslims calling for Sharia Law in various non-Muslim countries.

And yet we have Clerics preaching hate, death and suppport for the overthrow of the host culture in various mosques and centres in various non-Muslim countries!

FACTS!!!

So again...it seems this multicultral diversity works only one way and the biggest enemies (who are arrogant and hypocritical with it) to peaceful, suuccesful, two-way, respectful cultural diversity are the Islamists.

When one group of Asians living in The West wants to be totally descriptively seperated from another group of Asians living there because the others are mainly Muslim...it not only shows the unique trouble Islam causes for Westerners but for ALL ethnic minorities who try to live peacefully in The West.

And the UK, Europe and America needs to wake up to this fact and to stop being so scared of saying so before the ENTIRE multicultural exercise in every Western country in the World collapses into literal flames.

It seems then that this 'celebration' and respect works only one way. This 'bonding' of faiths and races seems to never apply to the host country and its population.

Breaking news from the UK of yet more Islamic sabotage of this multi-cultural 'celebration' of mutual respect:

A leading Islamic doctor is urging British Muslims not to vaccinate their children against diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella because they contain substances making them unlawful for Muslims to take.

Dr Abdul Majid Katme, head of the Islamic Medical Association, says almost all vaccines contain un-Islamic "haram" derivatives of animal or human tissue, and that Muslim parents are better off letting childrens' immune systems develop on their own.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

----the combination of devotion and diversity makes us stronger.----

Tell that to those children.

Victoria:
I know you live in an Islamist bubble but really you should actually face the facts in your own country.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070104/D8MEJEU00.html

Officials asked the Metropolitan Airport Commission for permission to hold public hearings on a proposal that would suspend the airport licenses of cab drivers who refuse service for reasons other than safety concerns.

"Our expectation is that if you're going to be driving a taxi at the airport, you need to provide service to anybody who wants it," commission spokesman Patrick Hogan said.

Airports Commissioner Bert McKasy said the issue raised by *MUSLIM* cab drivers who say that carrying alcohol or dogs, including those that help people with disabilities, violates religious beliefs is "unfortunate."

Each month, about 100 people are denied cab service at the airport.
Airport officials say that in recent months, the problem of service *REFUSALS FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS* has grown.
About three-quarters of the 900 taxi drivers at the airport are *SOMALI*, many of them *MUSLIM*.

--------------------------------
So I will say it AGAIN:

For sheltering people from war-torn Somalia in the safety of America, Americans are thanked by those same people by not being allowed to catch a taxi in the pouring rain!

Kind of makes you wonder what this 'diversity' is that Americans are TOLD they have to celebrate.

dave - how could you possibly transcend the bounds of time and space to know that the driver who passed you by was somalian?
that is a remarkable feat indeed-

mr patel- ive read about your organization at IMAN in the south side- and you just kepp doing what your big heart leads you to-

youre a unifier and a positive force on this planet

salaams

Let me put it a bit simpler....

For sheltering people from war-torn Somalia in the safety of America, Americans are thanked by those same people by not being allowed to catch a taxi in the pouring rain!

Kind of makes you wonder what this 'diversity' is that Americans are TOLD they have to celebrate.

----The American experiment has produced fruits: celebrating diversity of religions, races and ethnicity---

Indeed. But so has the UK. In fact I would say no other country in the World (given it's size) accepts, tolerates and helps as many differst religions and cultures.

And yes 4 citizens of the UK blew up London.

HUNDREDS more are awaiting trial on further terrorist plots including a massive oner to blow 9 planes out of the sky.

SO CALLED moderate Muslims excuse such atatcks, call for Sharia Law.

Muslim walk through the same London they blew up calling for people to be be-headed and for The Pope to die!

Clerics preach the most rabid anti-semetic, sexist, homophobic and (given they are mostly UK citizens) traitorous remarks you could imagine.

Muslim women with more rights and freedoms than they could only dream of in Islamic States, take schools to court over wanting to wear full veil in the classroom!

And that is what the tiny island of Britain got for 'celebrating diversity of religions, races and ethnicity'.

Perhaps we should simply think twice (PC or not!) about who and what we choose to 'celebrate' then.
Because the Islamic situation will rightly test the tolerance of the Brits and as such the entire (GOOD AND WELCOME) 'celebration of diversity of religions, races and ethnicity' could fall apart.

Let us not forget that America's willingness to open its arms to others saw those 'others' take the chance of being welcomed into America to train as pilots to fly planes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon!
And as big as America is...things like that will test the willingness to welcome certain people in ever again.

Separation of church and state is the the beacon on the hill. Legislations that enshrine the doctrine of separation of church and state makes the light shine brighter.

The American experiment has produced fruits: celebrating diversity of religions, races and ethnicity.
Would the Old World look and learn from the beacon on the hill?

The US election is like a sad old movie repeated over and over time, starring the same old people, same two parties, same policies, yawning!

It's time to catch up with the times, and change the electoral system to accommodate its true diverse population. How predictable can you get; 'gender issues' including 'same sex', 'abortion', and 'stem cell research', and then the War of Iraq, Terrorism, Energy, and Global Warming.

Interesting that Eboo does NOT include in his community 45 million secular Americans of which 12-15 million are flat out atheists. There are more atheists alone in the U.S. than Jews and Muslims combined. Are we to be the new Native Americans, Jews, Palestinians, whatever?

If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck...

Eboo, I was the ESL tutor in the Reading Lab at Glenbard South when you were in high school. I retired in 1994 so it has to be a while back. Since then, you have gone on to develop your organization which my husband and I think is a real gift to our country and beyond.

I am appalled at some of the comments people have written to you as I read this, but I meet such people daily and am glad you allow us to view such sentiments. They confirm the need for uniting organizations such as yours.

My husband, Bill, is retired after many years of service with both the national and international YMCA. He has never given up his focus on youth work and is the spark behind a project with the DuPage County Juvenile Probation Department. Noting that youth doing community service at B.R. Ryall YMCA never did anything that could possibly inspire a change in life's direction, he has gotten the cooperation of the Probation Department and the YMCA to organize a three days a week program. These involve "group" sessions for mentoring and guidance and structured times for body building and sports. I thought you might like to hear of what is going on in your home county.

We have seen you on TV and heard you on NPR on occasion. I also recall that you spoke on Speaking of Faith. Joe Morgan e-mails Helen White (librarian) and myself regularly with information. It is a pleasure to know what you are doing for ecumenism and cultural understanding.

Sincerely,

Mary Glenn (Formally "Mrs. Glenn" when we met in the halls at school those many years ago. "Mary" is fine now.)

Americas diversity, is founded on capitalism, people who immigrated to this country, come here to improve their finances. Making money is first and foremost, religion. Lobbyist and power brokers in government, use words like religious diversity, US beacon to the world to brainwash the simple minded.
The only and main religion of this country, is wealth and power, and it manifested by voting for the WAR.

----Perhaps America’s greatest gift to the 21st century will be to show the world that religious communities can live together in peace----

Best to stop ethnic/religious minorities, and specifically Muslims, from constantly attacking America for it's so called intolerance then!

As we can see Muslims (who have mostly fled to America from the dirthole that is Somalia...way to be thankful!) too often show no respect for the country they are in (whereas non-Muslims in Islamic countries are told to ALWAYS respect that country's culture) as the taxi cab/airport disgrace shows!

Muslim taxi drivers working, in a Secular based, Christian majority country, by their own choice are applying their own Islamic Law to who they pick up!
The sheer arrogance (YET AGAIN) of these Muslims is outstanding!
If you choose to operate a public service in a non-Muslim country you damn well serve anyone who wants to use that service unless they are being abusive and violent.
And people carrying home duty free booze or with guide dogs are neither!!!

So if you want 'America’s greatest gift' to continue religious minorities had better learn to respect (and adher to the law) of America.

If not...LEAVE. Drive you Jihadist taxi cab in a Muslim country if it's that important to you!!

As the saying goes "E Pluribus Unum. It was true then and is more needed today. A very dear friend called my attention to the Great Seal of the US. Norvo Ordo Seclorum comes from a poem by Virgil. It is a mighty challenge for us to rise to this vision. May God grant us the strength and wisdom to make this happen:

Now the last age by Cumae's Sibyl sung
Has come and gone, and the majestic roll
Of circling centuries begins anew:
Justice returns, returns old Saturn's reign,
With a new breed of men sent down from heaven.
Only do thou, at the boy's birth in whom
The iron shall cease, the golden age arise. . .

Under thy guidance, whatso tracks remain
Of our old wickedness, once done away
Shall free the earth from never-ceasing fear.
He shall receive the life of gods, and see
Heroes with gods commingling, and himself
Be seen of them, and with his father's worth
Reign o'er a world at peace.

Come are those last days that the Sybil sang:
The ages' mighty march begins anew.
Now come the virgin, Saturn reigns again:
Now from high heaven descends a wondrous race.
Thou on the newborn babe – who first shall end
That age of iron, bid a golden dawn. . .

Thou, trampling out what prints our crimes have left,
Shalt free the nations from perpetual fear.
While he to bliss shall waken; with the Blest
See the Brave mingling, and be seen of them,
Ruling that world o'er which his father's arm shed peace.

http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/seclorumvirgil.html

America must remain as America.The greatest gift to 21st century is Human Rights,not unreformed old mentality.Minnesota is observed as well.Two women equals one man or torture to women can not or must not be gift for U.S. in 21st century.

Again, it IS the time for the new dispensation.
Every 2500 years a new order is ushered in when Humanity is on the brink of social and political disaster. All religions are looking at the current moment, awaiting "their" Avatar.

http://share-international.org/

Maitreya

Just before 9/11, there was much noise about 'God bless America', the land of freedom and liberty'. As Mr. Bush put together his argument in favour of war in Iraq, the world learned about the nature of American Freedom and its Liberty. It simply means, 'do as I please and never mind about the consequences'. He is now struggling with the consequences of the War of Iraq, and Americans are learning that freedom is sanctioned by the responsibility although many warmongers would prove me wrong.

The second point I want to make is the basis of religion and its collective spirit. Many commentators have associated the collective conscious as in conscious awareness of a struggle shared by persons in the same social position as a spirit. Therefore when they see religious organization, they refer to the same spirit as a religious spirit, or God, and etc.

It is true that America has probably accommodate the most diverse population on earth, but how many of those are truly represented in democratic, social, and economic participation is another thing.

There are only two political parties, and those are often funded by the same few people to work for them. And this too is a spirit as some Americans would refer to the American Spirit.

True religion may yet to emerge, and pure principles may reveal a pure Spirit. As for now we can only hope for a transformation soon to happen before the climate change destroys all of us. And that is a negative spirit formed as a result of neglect of responsibility.

Nice sentiments, but history proves you wrong. Left to their devices, religions destroy peoples -- native peoples all over the planet.

What is fundamentally important is that "diversity" is irrelevant; the law drives this issue, and law guarantees that, regardless of any easy sentiment, no religion will ever rise to that level of power in this nation again. The reason it won't is because Americans will not permit it and that reality has nothing to do with religion, but rather everything to do with the American spirit, which as proven by law, transcends all religious belief.

Thank you.

Dr. Patel is right on the money. Americans, at the grass roots, embrace diversity more than certain people give us credit for or even we give ourselves credit for. We have embraced our diversity to the extent that we first identify our neighbors as neighbors or by their professions rather than by their nationality or their religious beliefs. Your neighbor may be a doctor who happens to be a Muslim. Your co-worker, the accountant, happens to be Catholic or your child's best friend who happens to be Indian. I believe the rest of the world lacks that perspective and it is time for us to serve as thought leaders.