Palin Wrong to Bring Up Wright Again

This past Sunday Governor Sarah Palin expressed surprise as to why her campaign has said so little about the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. She told New York Times Op-Ed columnist William Kristol that she didn't understand "why that association isn't discussed more, because those were appalling things that that pastor had said about our great country, and to have sat in the pews for 20 years and listened to that -- with, I don't know, a sense of condoning it, I guess, because he [Obama] didn't get up and leave -- to me, that does say something about character. But, you know, I guess that would be a John McCain call on whether he wants to bring that up."

Let's say that McCain decided that he did want to bring that up (and maybe he already has). Would it work? I don't think so and here's why:

Because Americans are wikipediaing terms like "Hooverville" "Hoover flag" and "Hoover blanket": The nation's economy is on fire. So maybe now is not the most expedient time to focus on Obama's really questionable taste in pastors. Let there be no doubt: this association is troubling. But harping on Wright for the next few weeks would only confirm suspicions that McCain has no answers for a crisis that is quite conceivably raising the blood pressure of every single citizen of the United States as we speak.

Because McCain already proclaimed the topic off limits: Back in April, McCain honorably warned Republicans in North Carolina to knock off the negative ads on this subject. The Maverick would risk looking erratic and indecisive if he reversed himself. Of course, that's what operatives and surrogates are for. Still, they too are climbing uphill. . . . .

Because the press is bored with the issue: Absent new YouTube videos featuring anti-American rants, the media has gone about as far with this story as it can go. The punditry got to familiarize themselves with the ideological stylings of Reverend Wright for something like two glorious, byline-rich months and can never be accused of having swept it under the rug. Either the GOP delivers fresh fulminations or journalists go back to filing stories about, like, foreclosures and stuff.

Because McCain fumbled the ball when he solicited the endorsements of Pastors Hagee and Parsley: Doesn't McCain have his own questionable "associations" with controversial religious figures? He sure does. But, in all honesty, these were minor compared with the length, depth and profundity of the Obama/Wright bond. This is why it is hard to underestimate how catastrophic McCain's decision to bring two pastors on board whom he hardly knew (sound familiar?) really was. In the popular perception both McCain and Obama have had their pastor disasters. In the popular perception, it's even. Time to move on.

Because Joe and Jane Six-Pack also have retirement funds: Over at the Six-Pack residence I am guessing that rumored layoffs down at the plant are a subject of much concern. What with the little Six-Packs going to the dentist next week, maybe mom and dad want to hear what's good about McCain's economic vision, not what's bad about Obama's now irrevocably broken relationship with his spiritual mentor.

By Jacques Berlinerblau |  October 9, 2008; 11:14 PM ET Save & Share:                 
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All I can say in response to Sister Palin is if those rumors about her being involved in some voodoo/witchcraft cleansing ceremony in church are true, someone in her Christian base should look into that and never mind Reverend Wright.

Posted by: hakafos44 | October 17, 2008 2:53 PM
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For the record:

The Philadelphia Inquirer, October 15, 2008

"The report concluded that Palin was within her legal rights to fire Monegan, who served at the pleasure of the governor. But the special counsel also found that Palin violated the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act by bringing pressure against various subordinate state employees in a campaign to fire Wooten.

"Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda," concluded investigator Steve Branchflower.

There's ample evidence that Wooten is a contemptible human being. There are claims that he threatened to kill Palin's father, drove his patrol car after drinking, and Tasered his stepson. He divorced Palin's sister Molly in 2006, but custody and other issues are unresolved."

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | October 17, 2008 12:04 AM
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I have the solution. Everybody vote for Nader. As far as I know he doesn't have a crazy preacher issue.

Posted by: anon-a-mouse | October 16, 2008 12:56 PM
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SARAH SIX-PACK AND EVERYONE ELSE MUST KEEP RELIGION OUT OF AMERICAN POLITICS. BY THE WAY SHE NEVER HAS ANYTHING OF SUBSTAINS TO SAY IN REGUARD TO THE REAL ISSUES OTHER THAN HALF TRUTHS.BEAR IN MIND THAT SHE WAS PICKED ONLY BY McCAIN,age 72 WHO SHOWS NOT ONLY HIS AGE BUT TRUE JUGEMENT BY THIS. NOW IF McCAIN WAS ELECTED AND DID NOT FINSH HIS TERM,HOW WHOULD FEEL HAVEING SARAH SIX-PACK AS USA PRESIDENT? THE PRESS CANNOT QUESTION EITHER! THIS COUNTRY MUST HAVE THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH & STATE.

Posted by: usapdx | October 16, 2008 11:37 AM
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Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

Whatever Governor Palin was considering with respect to her low-life brother-in-law (Philadelphia Inquirer, 10/15/08), it pales in regards to your warmongering, women-abusing, hallucination-based Islam.

Please address the problem issues of Islam before ever again addressing the issues regarding the politics of the USA.

As starters, what sayest thou about Ayaan Hirsi Ali's autobiography, Infidel, a book that you cannot read for fear of some crazy Islamic knocking on your door?

Some comments about said book and some excerpts from the book for your perusal:

"Thus begins the extraordinary story of a woman born into a family of desert nomads, circumcised as a child, educated by radical imams in Kenya and Saudi Arabia, taught to believe that if she uncovered her hair, terrible tragedies would ensue. It's a story that, with a few different twists, really could have led to a wretched life and a lonely death, as her grandmother warned. But instead, Hirsi Ali escaped -- and transformed herself into an internationally renowned spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women."
ref: Washington Post book review.

four excerpts:

p. 47 paperback issue:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

p.68:

"The Pakistanis were Muslims but they too had castes. The Untouchable girls, both Indian and Pakistani were darker skin. The others would not play with them because they were untouchable. We thought that was funny because of course they were touchable: we touched them see? but also horrifying to think of yourself as untouchable, despicable to the human race."

p.309

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating."

p. 347

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | October 16, 2008 11:36 AM
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Roe v Wade will remain the law of the land. Pro and con discussions regarding the morality of abortion notwithstanding. A woman's right in this regard should remain inviolable.

Organized religion could of course do much more to reduce abortion numbers by supporting sex education and widely available conventional birth control methods, including the 'morning after ' pill.

Do they do this? Of course not....instead, they ineffectively attempt to anathematize abortion.

Abortion should certainly not be a topic of discussion at this point in the final Presidential debate - there are much more pressing national issues at hand.

Posted by: realist | October 14, 2008 12:33 PM
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According to Palin-

"Well, I'm very, very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing ... any hint of any kind of unethical activity there,"

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/552515.html

According to the legislator's findings-

Palin violated the state's executive branch ethics act, which says that "each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."

"Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to ADVANCE A PERSONAL AGENDA ... to get Trooper Michael Wooten fired," Branchflower's report says.

"Compliance with the code of ethics is not optional. It is an individual responsibility imposed by law, and any effort to benefit a personal interest through official action is a violation of that trust. ... The term ‘benefit' is very broadly defined, and includes anything that is to the person's advantage or personal self-interest."

If this were Obama under investigation, and found not in violation of ethics standards-
And THEN make the outrageous claim that he was cleared of any hint of unethical activity!
the GOP and it's supporters would be screaming form the rooftops-
FOX news would dedicate every minute to it.

The legislators investigated- they did not levy charges-for Palin to be found guily or innocent.

As Governor, no ones questions the authority she had to fire employees.
The question was, did she abuse her power in the way she went about it, and her reasons for doing so.

YES- she did abuse her power- and allowed her office to be used by her husband to abuse it also.

Yes, she did violate the public trust.

Her lawyer states, she did not make monetary gain- which is true- but it wasn't an issue.
She gained from a personal agenda of revenge.

The question is, Does Palin have the character to take on the responsibilities of the Vice Presidency?

No. Clearly not.

Will she abuse that power to further her own political favoritism, and seek revenge when disagreed with?

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 14, 2008 11:49 AM
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Senator Obama and FOCA

David Johnson, Legislative Director, National Right to Life Committee

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OGM5YzIzYTExNjIyZmExODY0MzQyZDUxNmRmNmU1NmM=&w=Mg==

Posted by: Anonymous | October 14, 2008 4:05 AM
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That was reflections on abortion for the next Presidential debate should the question be asked.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 10:49 PM
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Butchers provide good meat as food for the people; abortionists provide women who have their babies aborted for convenience with "happiness."

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 10:48 PM
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Abortionists (those who do abortions of convenience knowing fully well about the life of the unborn child) are looked upon with as much respect for their skill as butchers are.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 10:45 PM
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Abortion was common enough among Greek pagans, a religion without clear teachings on sexual morality (remember pedatry was not considered wrong) in the days of Hippocrates, the Father Western medicine. But he realized the value of human life in the womb, hence his instruction to medical doctors not to induce abortions (leave alone use a vacuum cleaner to suck out living babies from the womb).

Strong resistance to abortion has thus always come from the medical community. Medical doctors who are trained to save lives are not exactly keen on taking them, even if some may be persuaded to do it for financial gain.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 10:29 PM
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Only TWO PERCENT of abortions are due to "hard" reasons - rape, incest, illness in mother and fetal deformities. Ninety eight percent abortions are abortions of convenience. To support it unconditionally is somewhat hard from a Christian perspective. It was common enough a

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 10:19 PM
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Governor Sarah Palin needs to make a compromise in her view of abortion:

Abortion for rape, incest at the earliest possible time, for fetal deformities if the mother finds it impossible to cope with the child whose life would be a long drawn misery due to the deformities. They are gray areas in ethics.

Abortion for convenience is a completely different kettle of fish.

Contraceptive use must not be condemned (prevention of STD and unwanted pregnancy that could lead to abortion is its goal); but resorting to abortion when contraception fails should not be part of the deal.

Sexual morality cannot be legislated but an attempt should be made to reduce the harmful consequences - STD and unwanted pregnancy - as much as possible with comprehensive sex education and availability of contraceptives. Laws restricting abortion is about saving innocent, defenseless unborn babies. The mother's right to reproductive freedom ends where the threat to life of an innocent third party, whom she brought into existence without its consent, begins.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 9:55 PM
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The merits of West European socialism needs to be studied a little more. It should not be equated with communism for partisan reasons.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 9:46 PM
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can you please post my previous post ?I don't see it there....
I think it contributes to the discussion.....
thank you

Posted by: ava | October 13, 2008 9:45 PM
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I see all the anger about Sarah Palin.

First, let us all pray that the best part of whomever wins will shine.

Could you please,Palin Haters, lay off her a little?
This is not to say she is problem-free, but the critiques are overblown.
Troopergate-I heard the guy was an alcoholic, violent and unfit to serve. She had to get rid of him, sister or no sister....you would have done the same thing.
Witch Doctor: Kindly retire the word "witch"...its been explained,it's the Pentacostal way of cleansing. This cannot be compared with Muslim extremism.
Conversion of Jews and native religions: Not through mass killings like Islamic extremists. A bit of difference there.....well within their rights.
Jews for Jesus is doing outreach in the subway here regularly, a non-event.
Once again, the "God Damn America" thing is not an isolated event. It is a piece of a puzzle...not comparable to other churchs calling down punishment,etc. a puzzle which includes Farrakhan ,Cone, et.al. (sorry to have to remind AGAIN about that...)
There is a clear choice in this election. It's between MARXIST ideology and a FREE ECONOMY. And the MARXIST ideology is historically compatible with FASCISM and TERRORISM, whereas the deeply flawed but fixable FREE DEMOCRACY is NOT.
Religion underlies EVERYTHING, since the idea of the perfectability and responsability of the individual underlies the Enlightenment ideas of the WEST, and the idea of the state as god and father,atheism replacing Christianity, and conformity rather than individuality comes with the marxist orientation. Of the two systems, the marxist leaning one is most vulnerable to ideologues whether they be Islamic terrorists, Marxists or "liberal fascists".
We all know about the evils of the far right, it seems we are in for a lesson about the evils of the far left. Hopefully all these fears on the part of more traditional minded Americans will prove unfounded..........

Posted by: ava | October 13, 2008 9:43 PM
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A desperate attempt is being made to link pregnancy with death of the mother. US statistics of death of of mother due to pregnancy should be provided to make a case supporting Roe vs Wade.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 9:43 PM
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Liberation theology in the Christian context it can be said is a political offspring of the spiritual teachings of Christianity. It rightly belongs more under political science.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 9:37 PM
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The Pentecostal Church does not have to be approved by religious scholars who think the Pentecostal Church is wrong while their own theology alone is right.

How many religions/religious denominations had to stand the test of religious scholars from an opposing theology in order to prove its authenticity?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 9:33 PM
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There is one disturbing aspect that gets little mention: the conviction that unconditional support for unlimited abortion is deeply Christian.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:59 PM
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wow, Jacques, I don't know if you are still tracking these responses, but you responded to mine

please note, there was NOTHING partisan about my response - it was purely theological: from a scholarly perspective, liberation theology is taught in seminaries and is capable of being debated by scholars; premillenial dispensationalism on the other hand is not accepted by any reputable scholars

I can't believe how incredibly naive and disturbing your response was - no wonder we're not having any national dialogue on this

belief in premillenial dispensationalism is extremely dangerous. it's not, as you say, some benign Pentecostal belief, and in the hands of someone like Sarah Palin, it would directly influence her/our support for and non-response to nuclear aggression on the part of Israel if they were to act pre-emptively

a theology/theocracy that believes that Israel must be protected at any cost no matter what Israel does, and that the war in the Middle East is "part of God's plan" could have catastrophic consequences for human civilization

that is VERY different from a person bringing his/her belief from liberation theology that God has a "preferential option for the poor" with them to public service

Posted by: Berkeley | October 13, 2008 8:49 PM
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qaxbami:

Obama's ex-pastor Wright is from the 20th century; Palin's pastor Muthee (who gave her a blessing against witches) is from the 14th.

October 13, 2008 10:08 AM

________________________________________________

Read Harry Potter sometime. Good and bad witchcraft is explained there.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:47 PM
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Hopefully more well informed intellectuals will give readers a taste of non-partisan political analysis. They seem to be so hard to come by.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:43 PM
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Wake up America, you have two normal people running for office on the Republican ticket. All this crap about witches and such is absolute idiocy. She is the All-American, strong-willed, intelligent, child-raising, independent, God Fearing woman. But the leftists go off on a rant talking in apocalyptic terms. They probably don't come into contact with normal people a whole lot so they are completely befuddled when encountering one.

Posted by: Robert B | October 13, 2008 8:35 PM
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Michael D. Houst:

Your comments on abortion proves you are deliberately ignoring the science based information (including statistics) provided on this thread and other blogs listed here in that context.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:25 PM
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Arimius, maybe you should read John 14-17 in which Jesus promises to send the Holy Spirit after He was gone bodily from the earth. The Pentecostal spirituality is based on that promise.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:20 PM
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Arminius, it might seem a bit odd to you, but the Pentecostal Church believes strongly in the power of the Holy Spirit. All their Christian spirituality is focussed on the Holy Spirit.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:18 PM
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Arminius:

Or that all Jews must be converted, by force if 'necessary', to bring on the end of days.

She is dangerous. And, like so many republicans, a master of the ultimate lie - the half-truth.

October 13, 2008 3:00 PM

____________________________________________

The Pentecostal Church converts people by force??????

Did you know that it is one of fastest growing Christian denominations in the world and boasts of large converts even among the young?

Get your facts right before spouting partisan nonsense under the guise of Christianity.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:15 PM
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It seems to me that in their clumsy, sane way (I don't call people madmen when their religion or beliefs seem a bit unpolished. Even Mr.Wright is not a "madman") Palin and McCain are trying to be patriots and Christians. Their flawed Christianity is not tied with their political agenda - and it is not tied to violent or hate filled radical left wing OR right wing agendas or a sense that America needs drastic redefinition, and it is not what drives them to seek the Presidency.

The Alaska Independance idea seems to be about the desire to protect Alaska from excessive regulation. It can be viewed as outside the norm and extremist. Nevertheless, it is a homegrown political idea, not a religious movement nor is it race/based; it is not about taking over the US Government in order to change the system and impose Socialism everywhere as were the Weathermen. It does not connect with political situations abroad that involve Islamic extremists, which are of grave concern to the entire WEST. However, Mr. Farrakhan,the Black Liberation Theology people, PLO/(anti-Israel), and the Obama family Kenya political connections all have some level of ideological link to what we might call America's enemies...

It more than seems that the Rev.Wright and his non-Christian associates such as Farrakhan are using Christianity to advance a Marxist message and as an activist political tool for social and economic advancement through the creation of opaque government programs that fund ethically questionable "improvements" in mainly but not exclusively minority neighborhoods, such as taking control away from parents vis a vis how their children are taught to view sex and race and history, and propounding a narrow progressive philosophy that includes concepts such as "white Privilege" and the need to supress "DeTocquevillian ideals" regarding Meritocracy as white supremacist ,among other things.

Therefore, it's clearly not about ONE SERMON. That would be too easy.

On a final note to this comment; It is gratifying to see so many people arguing quite idealistically and supporting Obama for all the right reasons. However, suppose he is not in complete good faith ? Suppose his personal demons are what drives him...his search for Black identify,his One World vision,his Marxist idealim (because that is what it is)......Suppose he does spend hugely, entrench corrupt cronies and polarizing judges,allow just a bit too much diversity of the radical kind to gain power, and enforce, by omission, a "politicall correct " environment that penalizes conservative dissent and irresponsably throws the race card at all who do not wish to intermarry, accept quotas, etc.? All these things are not beyond the realm of possibility and may come to pass....while intelligent and honest people on this and other blogs are debating whether Christians should be helping the world, the world is killing Christians....

Posted by: AVA | October 13, 2008 8:07 PM
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qaxbami:

Obama's ex-pastor Wright is from the 20th century; Palin's pastor Muthee (who gave her a blessing against witches) is from the 14th.

October 13, 2008 10:08 AM

________________________________________________

Ever heard of the religion paganism and neo-paganism, Wicca etc? They do have "witches" and "wizards." They do cast spells and have rituals. Just read the pagan blog here to verify.

It just happens to be that such magic and spells can be used for evil purposes by some witches and wizards. It is called black magic and it is prevalent in other cultures, especially Africa where much older animist religions still have a hold and practices are very often mixed with practice of even Christianity because people tend to cling to local religious ways.

That being the case, and the fact that the Pentecostal church places a lot of emphasis on evil and getting rid of the influence of the devil , there is often prayer, fasting and praying over people to that end. They do not burn anyone at the stake or attack anyone. They are simply praying for the deliverance from the devil in his *spiritual* manifestation by laying hands and praying for people to God.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 8:07 PM
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Or so goes the partisan demand of many.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 7:55 PM
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Furthermore Governor Palin is obliged to apologize to the American public for being prayed over by a VISITING pastor from KENYA.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 7:54 PM
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John:

How come Ms. Palin doesn't talk more about the witch doctor who came to HER church and performed an exorcism on her? Is it because he wasn't successful in exorcising all of her witchiness?

October 13, 2008 9:48 AM

________________________________________________

Sure Governor Palin should spend all her time explaining to the American public what a visiting pastor from Kenya believes or does in his African country.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 7:52 PM
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"It's not surprising that this meltdown is centered in NEW YORK, a true blue democratic state."

Yet the Alabama-based stock market and international banking center remains strong.

Oh, no.

In fact, it's blue states like NY that are actually propping up the economies of red states, including Alabama.

Posted by: Hillman | October 13, 2008 7:28 PM
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Clearly, money issues and immediate financial concerns are more important to many Americans than the ethics and ideology of their President.
They say people get the leaders they deserve....

Nevertheless, to say the media is "bored" with a story in which a Presidential candidate associates with a Liberation Theology based church that in turn associates with a Farrakhan is kind of like saying that the media is so extremely beyond reason that they no longer are able to reason or evaluate the meaning of political events. Pro or con, Obama is connected with specific ideologies through his associations with key figures, and through his birth family and marriage. Are we supposed to ignore all this and focus only on how many dollars we might get out of each candidate ?
Sadly, concepts like honor and self restraint and delayed gratification have waned in this culture. Truly it is Rome right before the Fall.
To further this historical and spiritual short sightedness by implicit justification of "Joe Sixpacks" concerns is unethical. Additionally, it is possible that there are still many "Joe Sixpacks" out there of any race or religion who DO still have a vestigial ability to reason about ethics and who still are uneasy about Rev. Wright and other unpleasant ideological connections Obama has entertained. After all, there are so many Christian churches, and Jewish Temples, and even Buddhist, Muslim, etc. leaders who do not espouse bizarre ideologies such as that certain races are to blame in perpetuity for misdeeds, that Christ was a black man, that the US Govt.produced the AIDS virus and all this other virulent nonsense that we have become inured to because the media excuses it and condones it....as just part of the ugly landscape that we must accept as the norm.

Posted by: ava | October 13, 2008 7:23 PM
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witch doctor chronicles!

Posted by: mike prayon | October 13, 2008 4:55 PM
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InSearchOfTruth:

It is true that St Sarah was never a member of the AIP. However - and it is a big 'however' - she has a close association with that group of madmen. Her husband was a member for some years. She herself spoke before one of their conventions. She has never disassociated herself or her mislead spouse with this group of America haters.

Also true that she never demanded that books be banned. But she did inquire.

She is associated with a church that at least does not deny the strange idea that Palestinians killing Israelis is God's justice. Or that all Jews must be converted, by force if 'necessary', to bring on the end of days.

She is dangerous. And, like so many republicans, a master of the ultimate lie - the half-truth.

Posted by: Arminius | October 13, 2008 3:00 PM
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People on here need to STOP spreading lies about Governor Palin (e.g. her being a member of the Alaskan Independence Party or that she demanded that the Wasilla library ban certain books). If you are unsure what is true and what is not, then check out FactCheck.org website to see what rumors have been proven to be false:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

Posted by: InSearchOfTruth | October 13, 2008 2:42 PM
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“Republikan” calls it a reason to not vote for Obama. Sounds to me like it is too bad for Gunnar Gundersen, but what he (and a bunch of old or conservative clergy) consider to be sin, I (and a heck of a lot of Americans, including practicing Catholics, and no small number of clergy) consider to be entrenched dogma unsuitable for humans in this day and age. His idol, Spe Salvi, appears to have his head where the sun does not shine. It is interesting that the first suggestion on the spellchecker for his name is, “spew.”

Barack Obama supports abortion rights, supports contraception. In this, he shows himself to be pro-humanist. Life wants to create life, even if the parents don’t want it. It is human nature to engage in the reproductive act. Denial of this fact is the mentition of fools. Contraception prevents the creation of unwanted life. Those against contraception set the stage for the use of abortion. The aborting of an unwanted fetus is not an easy choice, even without the load of mystical mumbo-jumbo the fanatics of the church dump on women. With the tight resources for healthcare this country faces, bringing defective, handicapped children into the world condemns those children to lives imprisoned in less than fully useful bodies, and removes resources needed to care for those currently in need, who’s needs are occasional, not perpetual. If life was so sacred, then why are over 50,000+ children in the U.S. alone condemned each year to orphanages because nobody wants them? I have had people tell me that it’s the fault of adoption laws. Laws are made by people, if they were such a burden, then why haven’t the right to lifers removed them? Clean up that problem and provide a viable alternative to abortion before you start preaching about it as a sin.

Barack opposes off shoring of jobs, and supports minimum wage. Minimum wage one of the things that is required to keep people in this country from becomes de facto slaves to unscrupulous business owners. The problem with off-shoring jobs is that it places more people in the United States in the unemployed category, boosting the requirements for federal and state funding to support these non-productive members. The savings are short term. As the jobs move to lower cost countries, those countries standard of living begins to rise, and with it, the wages, benefits paid, and general cost of doing business there; to the point that eventually, they are back in the same boat as they were in America. Sacrificing stability and civic responsibility for short-term gain certainly is not very Christian in my book.

As for Mr Obama saying that the security of Iraqi’s is not our responsibility, I tentatively agree with him. We never belonged in Iraq. It was a political mistake on the part of the Bush Administration. The only people it benefited was the businesses that got lucrative contracts for defense and construction; not the American people as a whole, and not the Iraqis. “Vengence is mine said the Lord”, but George W. spent trillions we did not have on a personal vendetta against Saddam. They have had over 5 years to get their house in order, time for them to get off the pot. How many more American’s must die?

Pope Pius XII was right about social programs and the internal essential relation to God. Only religious fanatics believe that the Roman Catholic way is the only way. Religious fanaticism in both Catholicism and Islam are what has brought us to the situation we are in today. At least Obama wants to improve social conditions and is willing to sidestep the religious differences to do it; the epitome of the separation of church and state.

You have a personal right to life that only lasts as long as you are willing to fight for it. A pregnant woman has a right to life too; one that can be threatened by an unwanted pregnancy. The only commonality a fetus has to humanity is genetic. A fetus is not functionally, mentally, or spiritually, human. No soul can exist without the capacity for moral judgment; that is the purpose of the soul, an immortal repository of our lifetimes of moral judgments. Therefore, no fetus, no newborn child, and no child prior to the capacity to understand the word, “no”, is going to have a soul. Abortions are a waste of life, and a waste of resources; but if the woman chooses to have one, it is certainly not murder, and therefore not a sin.

The future is always going to be uncertain. You want despair, just talk to the people who’ve lost their jobs, or their life savings. We do need a change in America; because business as usual isn’t going to do a darn thing to make things better. Unfortunately, John McCain is a business as usual person. Barack Obama is willing, and constitutionally inclined to make the changes.

Minimal, universal healthcare is not a bad thing. The devil is in the details of the definition of acceptable minimal-ness. We do need to reduce carbon emissions, the heck with global warming, how about just the general increase in atmospheric CO2 for breathing? We are not abandoning the people of Iraq; we are giving them their country back. Obama is defining the wealthy as people (and corporations) making over $250,000 a year; frankly, every one of them should either be paying as much money in dollar figures, or in percentage of gross income, as anyone else at the very least. Call it abortion, or call it infanticide, if the child is not wanted, and nobody steps up to the plate to take it, recycle it. There is no such thing as safe sex; but telling kids to use contraception if they are going to have sex is not encouragement, it is risk reduction. Okay, Obama was wrong to support the bailout, but everyone blows it occasionally. Maybe he will strike out on the economy, but at least he is not going to do the same old thing expecting a different result.

Posted by: Michael D. Houst | October 13, 2008 2:25 PM
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It is unfair to condemn Barrack Obama for the words and actions of Reverend Wright. No one condemned entire congregations for the actions of those Catholic priests who harmed children.

Another point I would like to make. When is it acceptable for a government official, especially the President and Vice President, to be unable to have an articulate thought?

God bless this mess!

Posted by: Marcus | October 13, 2008 1:15 PM
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Republikan:
Did you read the comments on the article? I am not sure where this law student got his or her facts, but the article shows precisely why Catholics should vote for Obama. I will keep my remarks brief.

First of all, Catholics should not be a single issue constituency; we have done that for decades and look where America stands today. An endorsement of Obama does not endorse abortion any more than an endorsement of McCain is an expectation that he will attempt to overturn Roe v Wade.

Next, America has not been united in the past eight years. To suggest otherwise is to deny reality. The people in power had every opportunity to unite Americans after 9/11 and did everything they could to divide us. We as a Republic cannot and should not endure more of the same. If we were to suggest that America is united in any way, we might look at a poll where 90% of Americans think the country has moved in the wrong direction.

Finally, the Church, universal and Catholic, endorses a social mission. This mission is critical to our mission as Catholics. The politics of the past 30 years of Republican rule has tried to destroy much of the work of that mission by declaring those things that should be celebrated, things like community and shared values, those things humans hold in common were regarded as vices, not virtues to be celebrated. They have isolated us in America and in the world. They have engaged in unholy and unjust wars, wars condemned by the Vatican, causing death to hundreds of thousands and creating millions of refugees. War is not the mission of the church any more than hatred of immigrants is a church policy.

Shame on us as Catholics for following the false Republican god of the market place and for not remembering that Jesus would not advocate any of the nonsense we have enthusiastically helped to implement.

May God have mercy on us all for considering the rest of the world as our enemy.

O

Posted by: villella7 | October 13, 2008 1:10 PM
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Ellen

You thanked Jacques for his "thoughtful and well written article", yet I wonder if you really read it. Here is the redux of what he said:

"...Obama's really questionable taste in pastors. Let there be no doubt: this association is troubling.

...Of course, that's what operatives and surrogates are for.

...the press is bored with the issue:

...these were minor compared with the length, depth and profundity of the Obama/Wright bond..."

When you actually pick apart what he wrote, it wasn't so "balanced" after all, was it? The neocons need to control the media to control the populace. They got caught with their hands in the cookie jar by trying a straight out frontal intimidation of the media - we ended up in the war they wanted but people got a little wiser. So now they are using "sneak attacks" - things like this that look oh so reasonable until you pick apart what they really said. Or like putting a wacko righty and a moderate left on TV - to a lefty it looks like they're making the right look ridiculous, but to joe sixpack it looks like the truth must be in the middle, but by selecting their speakers this way they shifted the middle to somewhere on the right.

Think about how many times you saw Wright's speech on the news, especially last spring. Did you hear the context that went with it? (that he was condemning US committing torture and human rights abuses?) Now how many times did you see Palins Israel bashing video on the mainstream news? How many times has the news brought up the Ayers connection? Now how many times have you seen McCain sitting placidly through the woman praising the shooting of the abortion doctor, then making her a delegate at his convention? Still think the media is left leaning?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 11:36 AM
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I agree with everything you said, but I think the argument against Palin's Wright-bashing runs deeper than concerns about political tactics.

First of all, if you think that Reverend Wright says some scary things in his sermons, you really need to listen to what goes on in Sarah Palin's church. If we give Palin the benefit of the doubt and assume she doesn't actually agree with everything that is said in her church (the alternative is much scarier), then we have to confront the hypocrisy of her attacks on Obama: she of all people would have to realize that just because you belong to a church or have a relationship with its pastor, that does not mean you agree with everything in the sermons.

Second, I don't for a second think that Palin has studied Reverend Wright's views. I'd be shocked if she knows of anything he has ever said other than one or two well-quoted passages, or that she knows anything about him other than that he is a black pastor from a liberal neighborhood in Chicago. It is clear that she is merely looking to sling mud. On top of that, it is hard to ignore the fact that Reverend Wright is black, given Palin's message to "Joe Sixpack" that Obama is "not like us".

I'm afraid that Palin's actions here go beyond bad politics; they are, to say the least, morally questionable behavior.

Posted by: Gregg Collins | October 13, 2008 11:18 AM
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After painstakingly repudiating the allegations of the Watchtower Society that Tertullian, Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria and Iranaeus all vehemently embraced the concept of the Trinity (obviously substantiated with volumes of referenced texts), I sadly realized that proving the truth to those who don't wish to believe it in the first place is just as big a waste of time as emptying the ocean with a bucket. It's an historic fact that most people believe lies about key components of their lives. Don't argue with their core. Just lead those on the fringes toward the light.

Posted by: doc steve | October 13, 2008 11:10 AM
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Even if you are not a Catholic, this is a great case as to why a person should 'NOT' vote for Obama. Please pass this on.

Senator Obama’s Politics of Division and Despair

By Gunnar Gundersen

10/12/2008

Catholic Online

A former law student of Professor Doug Kmiec concludes his analysis and presents his opinion on the US Presidential campaign.

LOS ANGELES, Ca. (Catholic Online) - Senator Obama regularly calls us to be united in our “common humanity” and “our shared destiny.” In Berlin, he called on all of us to tear down all sorts of “walls” that divide us. However, despite vague references to “our values,” Obama cannot articulate what it is that unites us or what are our values. In fact, his politics are not the politics of unity, but of division. The unity Obama offers can never be because he views sins as fundamental rights. Spe Salvi (Saved in Hope), the encyclical letter of Pope Benedict XVI, reminds us that “[s]in is . . . the destruction of the unity of the human race.” Yet, Senator Obama wants us to embrace sin as a fundamental right. How can our country ever hope to achieve unity if we embrace sin?

Obama divides mothers and children, supporting a mother’s “right” to kill her child if it is unwanted. He divides husbands and wives, by supporting contraception and mandating insurance coverage for it, depriving the sexual act of its unitive and procreative elements. He divides workers and their employers by solely discussing the sending of jobs overseas and the federal minimum wage, rather than discussing our common interests. He divides us from the Iraqi people, to whom we have made a commitment, by claiming that we no longer have an interest in their security. He divides parents and the state by refusing to allow school choice. Most frightening, he wants to divide Catholics from the Church by convincing them that they can support his and the Democrat Party’s agenda concerning calling a “right” what is always wrong, the taking of innocent human life in the womb. He has encouraged those Catholics who have become separated from the Church to continue headlong into their own destruction and others to follow their example. On January 29, 2008, while speaking in El Dorado, Kansas, he said this of Governor Kathleen Sebelius: “I want to thank Governor Sebelius for her support in this campaign, for the leadership she’s provided the state of Kansas, and for the example she’s set for Democrats all across America.” Indeed, he hopes that many will follow her example and that “Governor Sebelius is a bright part of [the Democrat party’s] . . . future.”

Obama wants to build a false unity, a unity built around him and his social program, not God. Pope Pius XII reminded us that “[a] social teaching or a social reconstruction program which denies or prescinds from [the] internal essential relation to God of everything that regards men, is on a false course; and while it builds up with one hand, it prepares with the other the materials which sooner or later will undermine and destroy the whole fabric [of society].” Such a program is not a good but is an objective evil.

Any attempt to build unity must be based on the absolute respect for human life. If some of our fellow Americans have no right to life, then our approach to social justice, “disregards the respect due to the human person and to the life which is proper to that person, and gives no thought to it in its organization, legislative and executive activity, [and] instead of serving society it harms it; instead of encouraging and stimulating social thought, instead of realizing its hopes and expectations, it strips it of all real value and reduces it to a utilitarian formula . . . .” In the final analysis, true unity as Pope Pius XII explains, must be based on “the respect of human dignity in oneself and others, on the love of society and of its God-given ends,” it cannot “proceed on the insecure ground of materialistic postulates” which “sees in the people only a herd of individuals who, divided and without any internal cohesion, are considered as a mass to be forded over and treated arbitrarily.” We must reject Obama’s assertion that we are divided and that only he can unite us under the common goal of electing him president to obtain “change.”

Before Obama came along we were a country, after Obama we will continue to be country, with, as Pope Pius XII makes clear, an “intrinsic unity, which has grown up and matured under the guidance of Providence, a unity which within the bounds assigned to it and according to its own peculiar gifts—tends, with the collaboration of the various classes and professions, towards the eternal and ever new aims of culture and religion.” Americans have always recognized that our unity is a consequence of our being God’s children, as George Washington stated: It is from God that we can obtain the blessings of “good governments, peace and concord.” Therefore, as Catholics concerned for the common good we need to remind our fellow Americans that the true source of unity is God not Obama. As Pope Pius XII exhorted us, we must make a “solemn vow not to rest until [our leaders are] formed . . . of men who, bent on bringing back society to its center of gravity, which is the law of God, aspire to the service of the human person and of his common life ennobled in God.” Obama is not one of these men.

Politics of Despair.

Obama tells us that the future is uncertain and that we need him to change America. The so-called hope offered by Obama is nothing more than social programs: Universal government controlled health care, mortgage bailouts, reduction of carbon emissions, abandoning the people of Iraq, increased taxes on the “wealthy,” allowing babies who survived abortion to die, and encouraging teens to engage in risky sexual behavior by telling them that the sex is “safe” with contraception, etc. The error of Obama is the error of Karl Marx, which, as Spe Salvi explains, is “materialism: man, in fact, is not merely the product of economic conditions, and it is not possible to redeem him purely from the outside by creating a favorable economic environment.” We cannot make the same mistake as Obama. Our religion teaches us that and our federalist system of government is based on “man always remaining man, that man is free and that freedom always remains freedom for evil.” Because of this truth, we must disabuse ourselves of the notion that “once the economy has been put right that everything will automatically be put right.”

This is the type of false materialistic hope which Catholics are enjoined to reject. We have a trustworthy hope, a hope in the everlasting joy of eternal life with Christ, we hope in things which are certain, not improbable. As Catholics we know that “[t]o come to know God—the true God—means to receive hope.” Catholics are not doing God’s work and His hope with fellow citizens by voting for Obama’s political agenda. We cannot use a political platform as justification for contradicting the clear doctrines and teachings of the Church on life. We should see this as a gift, placing our hope in economic solutions will only lead to despair, since we can never be certain of our economic condition. Furthermore, we are freed from depending on politicians like Obama to give us hope, since they will always disappoint. Pslams 146:3. Rather than accepting Obama’s despair, America needs us to stand up for our faith and to remind our fellow citizens of the true hope that is offered by God’s Church. Our national motto is not “In Obama We Trust” or “In Universal Health Care We Trust” but it is, thank God, “In God We Trust.” It is because we trust in God that we have the strength to reject those who would invite us despair and betray our trust in God, our Faith and this country’s greatest ideals.

Obama is offering solely political liberation, a liberation from material ills, as he actively works against the Christian morality which our country was built on. Our faith, as explicated by Leo XIII, teaches us that such an effort is vain: “Take away the instinct which Christian wisdom has planted and nurtured in men’s hearts, take away foresight, temperance, frugality, patience and other rightful, natural habits, no matter how much [the working man] may strive, he will never achieve prosperity.” Spe Salvi makes it very clear, “ ‘hope’ is equivalent to ‘faith.’” We must hope and have faith in Jesus Christ, not Barack Obama. We must remember that with or without Obama, “a distinguishing mark of Christians [is] the fact that [we] have a future,” that we have a real hope. We do not need Obama to live a good life in America.

Let us not fall into bitterness, despair or animosity. Let us not depend on social programs, political parties or presidential candidates for our happiness. Rather, let us each remember this beautiful prayer by St. Thomas More, who lost his Lord Chancellorship for the sake of upholding God’s law: “Give me, good Lord, a full faith, a firm hope, and a fervent charity, a love to Thee, good Lord, incomparably above the love to myself, and that I love nothing to Thy displeasure, but everything in an order to Thee.”

This is what America really needs.

http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=29980

Posted by: Republikan | October 13, 2008 11:08 AM
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I am deeply troubled that Jeremiah's Wrights name even comes up in public discourse when very few people really know what he was talking about and the use of a condemning word. Is it concievable that everything America does is righteous? When Dr Wright lists a number of things and says for these should we say God bless America, "no, no, no"... It is very disturbing to negate a pastor's whole career with a misunderstood or a pointed soundbite for political purposes. And shame on those who continue that practice for which one can hardly say, "God bless". Ignorance breeds ignorance.

Posted by: Fred A. Sprenger | October 13, 2008 11:03 AM
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McCain appears to be running out of diversions for his remedies. Since he's worn out the mud-slinging ploys, he's got to either return to the issues or have another diversion implemented by his handlers. Since he muddled his attempt to offer a promising formula for fertilizing an economic revival by giving even more billions to the banks, trusting their virtuosity by hoping they'll utilize reasonable rates and judiciously handle the funds. That was royally pooh-poohed by those within his own vernacular, so to utilize his buddy Lindsay's Graham's better-but-just-as-unrealistic plan would simply exasperate his being viewed as erratic. "Which plan is it, John?" It appears his campaign is going to maintain the smear rhetoric (toned down a bit) and push the "change" oxymoron they've painted onto their banners. Long hours of handshaking and town hall meetings seem to be the only fare on the recipe. We'll see. Rick Davis is a creative little demon.

Posted by: doc steve | October 13, 2008 10:54 AM
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Wonder why Palin's pastor isn't discussed more. The man who got where he is today by chasing little old ladies (aka witches) from their villages. I can only imagine that in a place like Africa where life is so tenuous that that amounts to a death sentence. God save us from your followers!

Posted by: John in Chicago | October 13, 2008 10:45 AM
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Sarah Palin needs to study God's word. Obama is not responsible for anyone but himself. I don't know what church she has gone to over the years, but I can tell you that pastors do not preach the same sermon for 20 years. This is such a ignorant statement to make. Reverend Wright was quoting someone else. Obama's mother was white and he was raised by white grandparents, therefore he would have to hate them if he was prejudice. I can identify with Obama's heritage, although my parents were not white, I still have white relatives and acquaintances. Has she only known perfect people all her life? Moses had committed murder and God still used him to take the Israelites through the wilderness. I have known people years ago that were okay people, however years later they did things that were wrong, but I can't be responsible for what they did just because I knew them at one time. McCain and Palin are giving christianity a bad name. God is not happy with their attitudes because He is a God of love not hate.

Posted by: Carolyn | October 13, 2008 10:34 AM
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Character assassination is the only thing the GOP has to run on.
Face it - their policies are more Bushie econimcs and foreign policy, both of which are total losers.
Character assassination not only attacks Obama, but cover their own horrible policy positions, so this is all they have!

Posted by: jeffc6578 | October 13, 2008 10:20 AM
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Or the most likely. Because Palin has her own preacher problems. C'mon. A little fairness here. Obama was clobbered with Wright for almost a month and practically nothing has been said in MSM about several of her religous affiliations which are just plain wacked out. I hope she does make an issue out of it. Maybe MSM will get the cover they think they need to go after her.

Posted by: -Headline- | October 13, 2008 10:13 AM
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Obama's ex-pastor Wright is from the 20th century; Palin's pastor Muthee (who gave her a blessing against witches) is from the 14th.

Posted by: qaxbami | October 13, 2008 10:08 AM
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Concidering the fact that Sarah's own radical church practices speaking in tongues and other extreme practices such as exorcising demons and casting spells to protect Sarah from witchcraft, I find it interesting that she dares to question anyone else's religious beliefs. I have seen the video of the Sarah Palin voodoo ceremony held at her own churchand it is truly disturbing.

Posted by: Art Ranchero | October 13, 2008 9:49 AM
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How come Ms. Palin doesn't talk more about the witch doctor who came to HER church and performed an exorcism on her? Is it because he wasn't successful in exorcising all of her witchiness?

Posted by: John | October 13, 2008 9:48 AM
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At this point there's very little doubt left that McCain himself remains utterly clueless about economics in general, and clueless about what would be a workable course for restoring the nation's economy specifically. And it's become frighteningly obvious that the Republican Party has put up a vice presidential candidate who is essentially clueless about everything and anything in the world, except possibly a few arbitrary and abstruse tenets of some fundamentalist theology. Only for the terminally stupid and/or some perpetual dregs of the far right wing is there any actual choice left regarding who should be made president and vice president of this country.

Posted by: Doowadiddy | October 13, 2008 9:40 AM
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PEACE folks. We're all in this together.
Eight years of Republican control have ended with 2 wars we can't see to win, a mountain of debt, and a financial crisis.
It is time to give the Democrats their turn.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 9:39 AM
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PEACE folks. We're all in this together.
Eight years of Republican control have ended with 2 wars we can't see to win, a mountain of debt, and a financial crisis.
It is time to give the Democrats their turn.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 9:32 AM
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I am pretty sure that God not condone sarcasm, innuendo, stretching the truth and smug "winks and nods". If the Saviour I am waiting for lives in the Spirit displayed by Sarah Palin, I'd rather not He arrive.

Posted by: salvatore pace | October 13, 2008 9:20 AM
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And the First Dude belonged to a group that wanted to separate pull Alaska out of the US??? Maybe we should look for patrotism in other places?

Posted by: Gary | October 13, 2008 9:16 AM
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Sarah Palin is an idiot. I used to attend Catholic mass with my ex-wife and even though I am strongly against the Catholic positions on abortion and contraception, I sat there anyway.

Is this the best V.P. pick the Repubs can come up with. Much as I dislike Gingrich, I think if they wanted a polarizing figure to energize their base, he would have been a better choice.

Posted by: joe | October 13, 2008 9:13 AM
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Dear Jacques- you forgot Palin's church. Have you looked into them?

Posted by: Josh Jasper | October 13, 2008 9:02 AM
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It would also raise attention to Palins witch-doctor, pastor story.

Posted by: Cymp | October 13, 2008 9:00 AM
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it is without question you are oone of these im in love with this guy and you care nothing about this nation,he is a radical racist just like his pastor who will show up at the whte house if he is elected,this is a smoke screen,like the flag on his lapel,to the hand on the heart,and his wife not liking this country,read his books and you know he is a marxist and we are inpoo if he wins,he has no plan,his campaign is a lie and so is his record and past association,sarah palin should be the candidate not mccain and she could defeat this guy like hillary should have,i went to vietnam and came home and got spit on and i didnt have a choice i had to go,this guyis bad for ths country,this joe six pack is clingng to his guns and his god,which i hope is looking down and stops this guy from ruining the country i love

Posted by: frank bates | October 13, 2008 8:57 AM
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Thank you for this exquisite clear explanation.
Sadly, those who "like Palin" as they "like the Fox News Guy with his nice hair" will not read such a useful and well written article.
They will watch Fox news, give a scant glance to the Drudge Report, and spout that they know Palin is good for the regular people.
Judging others instead of offering an intelligent role model for women who are reaching to equality?
Crying out about Wright and nonexistent birth certificates?
Priceless, Sarah.
Such a loser even before we knew (?) her as VeepCreep.

Posted by: Ellen | October 13, 2008 8:56 AM
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So what is your problem with Wright anyway? Since you failed to elaborate i am left to assume you find is anti-Zionist position troubling.
You could at least be candid about it.

I remember Joe Scarborough wailing loudly about what an anti-semite he is (that bloody false flag canard) in such a frothy fashion i though he might stroke out...

Is that your beef Jacques??

Posted by: Shootingsparks | October 13, 2008 8:54 AM
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Actually, Mr. Berlinerblau, the 'reverend' Wright/Wrong IS a major reason I am unalterably opposed to "The One". Obama's close relationship with an anti-American racist (attending his 'church' for 20 years, having him marry the obamas, dragging his little girls to this 'black theology church') shine sufficient light on the lack of character of "The One".

Posted by: Segeny | October 13, 2008 8:51 AM
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Thank you so much for including a glimpse of the Republican gaffes, the other side of the coin.

I also wish that the MSM would address the Annenbergs -- bankrolled William Ayers with $50 million! Why is it a double standard both in the McCain campaign and the MSM???

Not to mention Sarah Palin's own flirting with anti-American Todd Palin and his long involvement with AIP. And let's not forget Sarah Palin's witch hunting pastor.

So much dirt on the other side of the coin that isn't addressed!

Tabatha
Proudly Canadian
Voting GREEN!

Posted by: Tabatha | October 13, 2008 8:23 AM
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This issue is so dead, because they would be trying to make Obama responsible for Wrights words and actions. Granted America has as much of an ugly past as it can stand, especially for people of color. But what is wanted and needed from both candidates is something Americans can take hold of and will believe will come to be more than words. I'm in Washington DC and I have friends an family in areas, where the economy is taking a severe beating (Ohio, Michigan, Florida). That's if they are lucky to have a job or not have their wages reduced just to make it. Palin's biggest problem has been her dreaded "empty" (10 - 15 seconds) of no responses to interview questions, because it makes her look as dense as a tree stump. And as SNL opening line goes "She's not quite ready for Prime Time"! I'd rather have Katie Couric as the VP mate. And I'm

Posted by: Dwayne | October 13, 2008 8:06 AM
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How about, because if there is a tape of you on YouTube being exorcised, you need to be careful whose religious affiliations you are criticizing!

Posted by: KathyK | October 13, 2008 7:56 AM
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is this article a good use of "on faith", seems this online forum is partison on the dem side...

Posted by: Dwight | October 13, 2008 7:29 AM
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wright was obama's pastor for enough time to influence obama...
everyone wants to cover it up...
will everyone be surprised when obama makes America weaker before our enemies...

Posted by: Dwight | October 13, 2008 7:27 AM
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Why the heck do people work themselves into a frenzy for an election that comes around every four years?

RELAX! Compare policies and vote. There is no need to demonize anybody. All four candidates have their strengths and weaknesses. Each one takes a pick of their favorites from among the combination of weaknesses and strengths.

Surely it is possible to assess policies without working oneself into a frenzy?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 6:49 AM
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Dorothy:

Palin should explain to us Americans why she needed to have "the devil driven out" of her by an African? Now that really demonstrates an unbalanced mind.

Palin should explain to the Jewish community why one of her pastors wants Jews to convert to Christianity? They should be wary of Palin and her cronies, not Obama.

October 13, 2008 6:21 AM

________________________________________

Take the time to understand the Pentacostal Church and you will understand that they emphasize the role of the devil in the evil found in human beings. Since ALL religions believe in evil, that is not crazy, but it is their emphasis on the devil and the desire to drive it out, as if everyone were possessed (without giving due importance to the free will), that makes the Pentacostal belief a bit unique. It is not the sign of an unbalanced mind. It is just their Christian teaching which emphasizes the role of the devil.

There are more beliefs in religions than you know about, and it doesn't make anyone unbalanced for that reason.

Even Jesus and His disciples converted Jews in their time. So there is nothing new at all, considering the founder of Christianity was a Jew in His earthly form and ALL the disciples He Himself chose in His earthly life were likewise Jews.

No need to demonize McCain-Palin simply because you are a Democrat.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 6:42 AM
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Anyone who is intellectually inquisitive will at some time speak to/come in contact with individuals who may not mirror his/her own values. It makes life interesting. Wright doesn't deserve the attention he has been receiving and his ideas should not reflect on Obama. The Republican Party's constant focus on Wright is absurd and demonstrates how mediocre and mealy-mouthed the party has become. They are just trying to scare a large majority of Americans. Shame on them!

Palin should explain to us Americans why she needed to have "the devil driven out" of her by an African? Now that really demonstrates an unbalanced mind.

Palin should explain to the Jewish community why one of her pastors wants Jews to convert to Christianity? They should be wary of Palin and her cronies, not Obama.

Posted by: Dorothy | October 13, 2008 6:21 AM
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Before there was a state of Alaska, there was a chunk of land owned by russia. The United States of America and the american people BOUGHT that land for America. The "independant alaskans" did NOT buy it. The resources there that are on FEDERAL land is NOT "owned" by the alaskan people, they are owned by the AMERICAN people.
I am tired of hearing about the rugged "independant" alaskan people who are almost totally DEPENDANT on the money of the lower 48 that sends them more dollars per resident then ANY OTHER STATE.
So much for that rugged independance.

Also I do not want to hear "if you would only let us drill for oil"
That oil IS NOT YOURS! You didn't buy it, the LOWER 48 did, WE OWN IT! So stop talking like alaska is yours, it's not!

Read Thomas Friedman's book, "Flat, hot, and crowded" and compare what happens in a middle east oil country when oil is low priced and high priced. It totally matches what you see in alaska!

It is uncanny.

Alaska is the same as the middle east, 85% of the state's budget is paid for from oil.

----------------------------------------------

everybody talkin' bout mccainism, palinism, cheneyism, ism, ism, ism, .. all we are saying ....is give barak a chance

Posted by: Vladislaw | October 13, 2008 3:31 AM
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Reverend Wright said that American chickens had come home to roost on 9/11 - instead of having a rational debate about this statement he was vilified.

Americans should consider the motivations of the terrorists - why did they do what they did? At least part of the answer has to do with what is perceived as an unjust policy towards the palestinian people, a history of american interference in the middle east and american troop presence in the middle east.

We should seek to better understand why there is hostility towards the US and not just throw poisen at those people who criticise US foreign policy.

Posted by: toni burtoni | October 13, 2008 3:08 AM
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Sarah "Avon Lady" Palin is a huckster and con artist -- you betcha!

Posted by: B-man | October 13, 2008 2:58 AM
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Sarah Paling (must be spelled that way since she is always leavin (sic) the g's off of words) is ignorant and petty.

Do you really think any of these religious people like Falwell, Robertson or even the pope really believe the crap they tell people?

They are in it for money and power, and they will do anything required to maintain the status quo.

They are scam artists of the highest degree, depending on fear to motivate people to flock to their religions. If they are intelligent enough to know how to manipulate people in this way then they are smart enough to know that there is no god and religious doctrine is bogus.

Posted by: spatula | October 13, 2008 2:52 AM
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This article in redux:

"Obama's really questionable taste in pastors. Let there be no doubt: this association is troubling.

Of course, that's what operatives and surrogates are for.

the press is bored with the issue:

these were minor compared with the length, depth and profundity of the Obama/Wright bond."

Still think its left leaning media? Looks different when you read it closely, doesn't it?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 2:42 AM
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So I am not alone

And one more thing before I break for bedtime - just look at the premise of this entire article - 5 reasons are given for why the Wright/Ayers story has no traction, and only 1 of the 5 is about the actual merit of the story, and then it says 'But, in all honesty, these were minor compared with the length, depth and profundity of the Obama/Wright bond."

If you don't see right wing bias here then none are so blind as those who will not see. length, depth and profundity? ROFLMAO. The entire purpose of this is to explain to right-wingers why their campaign tactic to smear Obama isn't working. You will notice that another explanation - there's no there there - isn't mentioned.

I just held a house party for my local Congressonal candidate. The candidate did not aks me if I was a terrorist 40 years ago. If his campaign googled me they didn't tell me about it. (Certainly a young first time candidate just starting out for a state office probably didn't do a background check on his supporters). The candidate just said "thank you for opening up your home to me", and proceeded to speak and answer questions from the guests, some of whom asked quite pointed questions about his positions and plans. I may have opened up my house for him, but he's the one who had to prove himself to my neighbors.

Posted by: patriot | October 13, 2008 2:35 AM
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So I am not alone

I stand by my assessement. The media is bloviating on the Wright and the Ayers stories with precious little context, amplifying them over and over and over just in case one person in this country hasn't heard them.

Meanwhile, the "balance" is completely silent. I saw the video of the preacher in Palin's church calling violence in Israel divine retribution on the internet, not on CNN (or ABC, or CBS, or FOX...). And Palin was indeed, present, and did not get up and leave or speak up. I saw the interview with her regular pastor defending the Israel comments, yet she still goes to that church even though the pastor sees no problems with the Israel sentiments. But I saw this story once on one channel, and the story wasn't picked up at all by the other channels - not thousands of times a day for weeks on end like Wright/Ayers. I learned of McCain giving implied consent to the virulently anti-gay group he was keynote speaker for where the invocation praised a domestic terrorist (for shooting a doctor who did abortions), on the web, although I think Keith Olberman covered the story (now I'll agree with you that HE's left leaning!) and the woman praising the terrorist was a delegate at his convention. And in all of Wright's "damn" replays, very few of the channels ever play the context of his remarks - to paraphrase: IF America is torturing and committing human rights abuses and etc then damn America"

If the media was "neutral", they'd be giving equal time to the Palin preacher and McCain-doctor shooter link. Most people haven't even heard of the Palin-McCain issues.

Outside of Keith Olbermann, the media is still victim to the right wing phenemenon of inviting a wacko righty to represent the right, vs a slightly lefty to represent the left. To a lefty it looks like they're marginalizing the right wing nutjob and presenting the left as sane. But what really happnes is that most people who live in the middle figure the truth lies inbetween the two sides, which leaves he people to assume the truth is halfway inbetween far right wacko and slightly left, i.e. slanted to the right somewhere.

Posted by: patriot | October 13, 2008 2:22 AM
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So all the partisan bashing was only "politics as usual?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/12/AR2008101201966.html?hpid=topnews

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 2:04 AM
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I just can't believe how many white racists want to drudge up the tired old story of Rev. Wright. They claim that the McCain campaign "should be" bringing it up. They claim it's fair game. They don't mention, discuss, or talk about Palin's problem with the AIP, Witch-doctors, or anti-semetism. They fail to discuss, disclose, or comment on Rev. Falwell or Pat Robertson.

They fail to acknowledge, disclose, or comment on racist comments by their friends at McCain Town Hall meetings like the "Arab" comment or those "hooligans".

You guys got us in this mess. Your gov't borrowed $ 5 trillion dollars and doubled the national debt. Your gov't lied to get us into a war with Iraq in which we've borrowed nearly a trillion dollars to fund. Meanwhile, the stock market and our 401(k)s are worth less than it was when Bush came to power. Even worse, if you factor in inflation, it's worth even less than that.

We are now all suffering because of your party's incompetence. You will not acknowledge any of your party's mistakes. We now face the real prospect of a depression. Many of you will lose your jobs. So will many of us. And the only thing you can talk about is character assassination to keep your party in power. You have no real solutions. You offer the middle nothing but hatred. Shame on your party. Shame on you for destroying this great country of ours and turning it into a pale example of its former glory. After everything you and your party has done to America, you should be ashamed to even admit that you are a Republican.

Posted by: Dave | October 13, 2008 2:03 AM
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"Because" we're not a nation of unethical racist pigs, like Sarah Palin and her supporters.

Say no more.

Posted by: Michael Harley | October 13, 2008 1:39 AM
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HOW SHORTSELLERS RUINED THE WORLD ECONOMY. (Possibly, a democrat have a hand on this)

To simplify matters, let's equate the stock market shares into a brand new car. The price of stock shares are influenced by many factors. The same can be said with cars. But cars are influenced by simpler factors, unlike with stock shares.

This is how shortsellers will sell your brand new car. First they sell your car for a very high price. Lets us say 100,000 dollars. After it is sold, they will make a move to bring down the price of that car by tinkering on the factors that will affect its price. To make the car unattractive to buy and lower its price, they would make a move to raise gasoline prices. Other than that, they can work on other factors that would further make the car unattractive and pull down its price. With very low demand, it will pull down the price of that car to maybe 50,000 dollars. The shortseller will then close the sell by "buying" your car for 50,000 dollars. The process was just reversed but what really happened was the shortseller "bought" your car for 50,000 dollars and sold it for 100,000 dollars. His net profit from the transaction would be 50,000 from the car he really didn't own, while you, the real owner looses 50,000 dollars.

He continues to make a move to lower the price of your car by tinkering on other factors that will affect the prices of cars. Once it reaches 30,000, he offers to buy it from you. You being in a state of panic sells it to him for 30,000 dollars. He then makes a move to lower the price of gasoline so cars would be attractive again. As the price of the car bounces up to 50,000 dollars, he sells it again profiting 20,000 dollar from the transaction.

From the whole transaction, he profited 70,000 dollars while you lose 70,000 dollars.

He repeats the cycle and profits again. That is how the stock market is being influenced by SHORTSELERS and that is how YOU ARE BEING FLEECED BY THEM. That also explains why the stocks are moving like a roller coaster ride - an up and down movement while it slides further down.

They create the bubble first and then they burst the bubble. THESE PEOPLE ARE UNCONSCIONABLE.

STOP SHORTSELLING TO STOP THIS FINANCIAL MELTDOWN.

It's funny that Fareed Zakaria interviewed GEORGE SOROS and asked him how to solve the financial meltdown problem. It's like asking the problem to make a solution. VERY FUNNY.

But in fairness to him, he gave the right solution to solve the mortgage problem. Very cunning, indeed. Yeah, solve the mortgage problem so he can then proceed to buy the troubled banks AT A DISCOUNT and profit again. VERY CUNNING BUT "THE BOSSES" LIKE PAULSON IS VERY STUPID.

IM NOT SURE THOUGH IF THEY ARE PARTNERS IN CRIME.

And by the way, Soros is voting for Obama and since Obama seems to be winning, shortselling will be with us for 4 more years, I guess.

Why is Obama the favorite friend of people with shady characters? All abortionists, atheists, gays are on his side also. WOW!!

Just an afterthought. When McCain was winning the survey after he named Sarah Palin as his vice, suddenly this economic meltdown occurred. Could it be that Soros have a hand on this? Just thinking. It may not be farfetch coz the guy si so witty.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 13, 2008 1:38 AM
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The same Sarahh Palin that is guilty of corruption and abuse of office? The same Sarahh Palin who froze up trying to answer a question for Katie Couric that wasn't scripted onto her teleprompter? The same Sarah Palin whose views are completely wacko? Time to tune her & her elderly partner out, they've run out of worthwhile things to talk about-

Posted by: R Sampson | October 13, 2008 1:36 AM
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I don't understand white people(European Descent). Why would people want to continue to bring this up like its important. If you say that a pastor who people have only listened to sound bites from selective sermons is a racist and hate monger than you have to Jerry Falwell or Pat Rorbertson are as well. They say things that people think are out there also. And if you listened to the complete sermons he said some things but he always brought it back to God's grace.
More than anything are whites saying that because he did not leave the church he is a racist or he wants to benefit black people exclusively, you do not take in consideration his mother is WHITE. He was raised by his WHITE grandparents so he would have to be racist against people he cares about including relatives and himself.

The conclusion doesn't make sense. However, if you want to stoke racial fears and stereotypes then you do that. I guess we know where they are going.

Posted by: steve from L A | October 13, 2008 1:22 AM
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I don't understand white people(European Descent). Why would people want to continue to bring this up like its important. If you say that a pastor who people have only listened to sound bites from selective sermons is a racist and hate monger than you have to Jerry Falwell or Pat Rorbertson are as well. They say things that people think are out there also. And if you listened to the complete sermons he said some things but he always brought it back to God's grace.
More than anything are whites saying that because he did not leave the church he is a racist or he wants to benefit black people exclusively, you do not take in consideration his mother is WHITE. He was raised by his WHITE grandparents so he would have to be racist against people he cares about including relatives and himself.

The conclusion doesn't make sense. However, if you want to stoke racial fears and stereotypes then you do that. I guess we know where they are going.

Posted by: steve from L A | October 13, 2008 1:21 AM
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Whats scary is that she is serious.

She wanted Alaska to secede from the U.S.
She went to a witch doctor.
Her teenage daughter is pregnant and unmarried
John McCain left an ailing wife to be with his current wife
The economy is in a rut........
She was just found guilty of abusing power.
She almost started a race riot
She is an empty suit doing the dirty work....

and she is passing judgments???

Posted by: Just | October 13, 2008 1:19 AM
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McCain should convince the electorate that Obama and not him would put America ever closer to a war with Iran. Obama's "COOL" approach would only embolden the Iranians to move ahead with their nuclear weapons project. On the other hand, McCain's tougher stance and tourniquet-like approach to isolate Iran could convince them to stop. The Iranians gave up the American hostages they held when Reagan came into power. They know they can't play with the guy.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 13, 2008 1:11 AM
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And to those who constantly keep quoting the OT about Jews and Christians worshipping a blood thirsty God:

1. When was the last time the Jews killed non-Jews?

2. Where in the life and teachings of Jesus did He and the disciples He chose in His lifetime on earth practice or advocate violence?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 1:03 AM
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Only the partisan politically motivated or religion hating fanatics would work themselves into a frenzy about the Pentecostal Church. Sure some of their beliefs are a bit extreme and one sided, but as long as they don't harm anyone, they have a right to believe anything they please. That is freedom of religion.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 12:58 AM
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Abused Enough Already:

Read the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount. It contains the most important teachings of the Bible.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 12:55 AM
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ABUSED ENOUGH ALREADY:

You seem to have missed the party that had been going on here for nearly two years - hordes of religion bashing, Christian bashing bloggers ripping the Bible, Christianity and the Catholic Church apart.

You take is the usual one presented by Christian bashing Muslims - "the copies of copies" line.

Nothing new in your post. Read all the old discussions on this forum and find out for yourself.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 13, 2008 12:51 AM
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Wright doesn't matter, or Obama's Church.

It's Obama's words, integrity and honesty that is the real question, and the answer is very simple.

"I have a deep faith" OBAMA said, "I'm rooted in the Christian tradition, I believe that THERE ARE MANY PATHS to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power"

(John 14:6) JESUS said " I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME". (Singular not many)

Obama disagrees with Jesus.

Posted by: NorthDave | October 13, 2008 12:47 AM
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I must say, it is time to put to rest the silly notion that any of the 5000 or so Bibles have anything to do with being the "Words of God". Look around, in any "average" American city, there must be at least 20 different brands of Christianity and in big cities there are probably 50 or more! Each proclaiming their book is the real book or if by some strange chance they are using the same "Good" book; then their interpretation is the one and the only!! Now it is simple math...you can add can you not?... At most only one of these cults can be "the ONE"; and the odds are about 1 in several Billion that not one is "the ONE"!! I recently saw an assertion, that although the Bible was written by 50 or more authors, not one contradiction exists! Now, there are several Christian cults who attest to their being at least 50,000 contradictions... and the authors of the new and improved and more closely to the "original" copies of the copies of the copies of the stories.... has thousands of words in bold print indicating they were NOT in the original copies and the Catholics who had custody of the NT for 1500 years have 6 more books than the poor deprived Protestants and of course the Mormons have discovered the writings of the "lost" tribes of Israel in Penn along with the receipt for some magic underwear!

Now we have growing cults of fanatics who will attest to the infallible truth of the copies of copies of copies etc.. and that ever word is literally true except for the many, many words which are endlessly interpreted by those immortal words of God... and that means...! Their good book has two different stories in the first 100 words of the first book...and yet every word is true?? They worship a God who killed every living thing on the planet except the ungodly mess of critters on the Ark...and claim this God is pro life? God expounds on the virtue of his greatest devotee and then demands the human sacrifice to prove his devotion...and this God is pro-life? This God commands the Israelites to kill every living thing...Goats, men, women, children, dogs, sheep... except of course the virgin maidens which can be used by "God's" killers as they choose,,, and this God is pro Life? Are you speaking of the Son who sacrifices himself to the Father to atone for the sins of the Father in giving his creations the freedom to fail..that son and that father are pro life? You celebrate the torture and murder of your God as a Human sacrifice to atone for some imperfection in God's creations? That God is pro Life?
Enough, these Bibles are the words of the death worshipers…longing for an Armageddon to end their fear, justify their evil minds, and give them the peace the fight so hard to prevent! Their God is a murderous evil thing invented by evil perverted human minds used to divide humanity into “other” to allow for inhumane actions including murder, slavery, genocide, and worse!
We can no longer tolerate these crippled minds; they must be prevented from

Posted by: Abused enough already! | October 13, 2008 12:13 AM
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Patriot:

Let's say I'm one of those who likes to take politics with a pinch of salt, a sack of salt really.

Posted by: So I am not alone | October 12, 2008 11:54 PM
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PATRIOT:

You may not believe this, but my values are more in line with what would be termed politically liberal, except for my stand on abortion. I don't see what is so "liberal" about killing unborn babies.

But I am against unfair partisan politicking. Even for a political moron and politically indifferent me, I couldn't help but notice the extreme bias.

Posted by: So I am not alone | October 12, 2008 11:50 PM
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HOW SHORTSELLERS RUINED THE WORLD ECONOMY.

To simplify matters, let's equate the stock market shares into a brand new car. The price of stock shares are influenced by many factors. The same can be said with cars. But cars are influenced by simpler factors, unlike with stock shares.

This is how shortsellers will sell your brand new car. First they sell your car for a very high price. Lets us say 100,000 dollars. After it is sold, they will make a move to bring down the price of that car by tinkering on the factors that will affect its price. To make the car unattractive to buy and lower its price, they would make a move to raise gasoline prices. Other than that, they can work on other factors that would further make the car unattractive and pull down its price. With very low demand, it will pull down the price of that car to maybe 50,000 dollars. The shortseller will then close the sell by "buying" your car for 50,000 dollars. The process was just reversed but what really happened was the shortseller "bought" your car for 50,000 dollars and sold it for 100,000 dollars. His net profit from the transaction would be 50,000 from the car he really didn't own, while you, the real owner looses 50,000 dollars.

He continues to make a move to lower the price of your car by tinkering on other factors that will affect the prices of cars. Once it reaches 30,000, he offers to buy it from you. You being in a state of panic sells it to him for 30,000 dollars. He then makes a move to lower the price of gasoline so cars would be attractive again. As the price of the car bounces up to 50,000 dollars, he sells it again profiting 20,000 dollar from the transaction.

From the whole transaction, he profited 70,000 dollars while you lose 70,000 dollars.

He repeats the cycle and profits again. That is how the stock market is being influenced by SHORTSELERS and that is how YOU ARE BEING FLEECED BY THEM. That also explains why the stocks are moving like a roller coaster ride - an up and down movement while it slides further down.

They create the bubble first and then they burst the bubble. THESE PEOPLE ARE UNCONSCIONABLE.

STOP SHORTSELLING TO STOP THIS FINANCIAL MELTDOWN.

It's funny that Fareed Zakaria interviewed GEORGE SOROS and asked him how to solve the financial meltdown problem. It's like asking the problem to make a solution. VERY FUNNY.

But in fairness to him, he gave the right solution to solve the mortgage problem. Very cunning, indeed. Yeah, solve the mortgage problem so he can then proceed to buy the troubled banks AT A DISCOUNT and profit again. VERY CUNNING BUT "THE BOSSES" LIKE PAULSON IS VERY STUPID.

IM NOT SURE THOUGH IF THEY ARE PARTNERS IN CRIME.

And by the way, Soros is voting for Obama and since Obama seems to be winning, shortselling will be with us for 4 more years, I guess.

Why is Obama the favorite friend of people with shady characters? All abortionists, atheists, gays are on his side also. WOW!!

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 12, 2008 11:48 PM
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Bob, the footage of Wright damning America for torture and human rights violations was on thousands of times a day for two months. Where is the footage on Palin's preacher?

I can't stand this right wing bias in the press. We saw WRight over and over, but we have to go looking for the Palin pastor footage. Why is that?

Posted by: patriot | October 12, 2008 11:42 PM
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There is footage of Palin's apocalyptic "Christian" minister trying to vast out witches from the governor. Considering her appeal to the lynch mob by calling Obama a "Bad guy" who pals around with terrorists, I'd say he did a pretty crappy job!

Posted by: Bob | October 12, 2008 11:39 PM
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So I am not alone:

If the media was liberal, we'd be talking about why John McCain put a woman who praised a domestic terrorist in his nominating delegation and why he was the keynote speaker for a virulently anti-gay group. And about why Sarah Palin hates Israel so much she still attends a church that said the violence there was divine retribution. And why Palin recorded a welcoming message for the annual meeting of the Alaske Secessionist Party in 2008, when the group's founder said that when government agents came for him they should wear red because it would make them better targets. Have you heard this on Fox, or CNN, or ABC, or CBS?

But nice try. I'm sure someone is buying your coolaid.

Posted by: patriot | October 12, 2008 11:39 PM
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Two of the three presidential debates have now passed without either candidate being asked about abortion, an issue that nearly four out of ten voters said was “very important” to them, according to an August Pew survey...

http://www.mrc.org/realitycheck/2008/fax20081009.asp

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 11:38 PM
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Why McCain will not bring up Ayers and Wright in Debate 3

McCain - that one has such bad judgement that he launched his career in the living room of a domestic terrorisst

Obama - no John, I launched my career in the living room of a respected profess from the University of Chicago and recipient of the Chicago Citizen of the Year award, who did some bad things when I was 8 years old. You however, as an adult, sat through a speech by a woman who praised a domestic terrorist for shooting a doctor because he performed abortions, said nothing, then gave the keynote address to her group of virulent anti-gay friends, and then made her a delagate at your convention. I don't claim responsibility for things other people did when I was 8, but John, what were you thinking when you consorted with this woman who praises domestic terrorists and made her part of your nominating delegation?

McCain - well, at least my Pastor doesnt damn my country

Obama - no John, Rev Wright damned the part of America engaging in torture, extraordinary rendition and egregious human rights violations. On the other hand, your VP candidate sat through a sermon declaring that violence in the Middle East was Israel's divine punishment, and she never got up and left. Further, her pastor stood up for the speaker and said he would still be welcome to come back, yet Sarah Palin still attends that church.. Why does Sarah Palin hate Israel? And what was it you once said about those agents of intolerance ............

Posted by: patriot | October 12, 2008 11:32 PM
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The American people in poll after poll and in greater and growing numbers are railing against the egregious liberal bias of the press. And nowhere are the media more horrendously slanted than in their coverage of the presidential campaign of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama. They are (to say the least) very, very sweet on him.

The MRC has put together this college basketball tournament-style bracket event, the Sweet-On-Obama Sixteen Media Bias Tournament, so that these angered members of the media’s audience can vote for who gives Sen. Obama the most loving and fawning coverage of all.

Voting for the Sweet-On-Obama Sixteen begins on Monday, October 6th and lasts for one week.

On Monday, October 13th we will announce the Round One winners – those who have advanced to the Enamored Eight. Voting for the Enamored Eight begins then and lasts throughout that week.

On Monday, October 20th, we will make known the names of those who have advanced to the Infatuated Four, and begin that week’s voting to determine who will square off in the finals.

We will announce those winners on Monday, October 27th and begin a week’s worth of voting to determine the Media’s Most Valuable Partisan, to be proclaimed with much fanfare on Monday, November 3rd. Who in the press gets the greatest thrill up his or her leg in covering their favorite candidate? Now it can be decided.

Begin your voting today, and return each Monday to see who's advanced and to vote for your selections in the next round. And check back often to cheer on your choices from amongst the media's most biased. And if you don't have any pom-poms, ask a reporter if you can borrow a pair - they have plenty.

Source:

http://sweetonobama.mrc.org/

Posted by: So I am not alone | October 12, 2008 11:25 PM
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HOW SHORTSELLER RUINED THE WORLD ECONOMY.

To simplify matters, let's equate the stock market shares into a brand new car. The price of stock shares are influenced by many factors. The same can be said with cars. But cars are influenced by simpler factors, unlike with stock shares.

This is how shortsellers will sell your brand new car. First they sell your car for a very high price. Lets us say 100,000 dollars. After it is sold, they will make a move to bring down the price of that car by tinkering on the factors that will affect its price. To make the car unattractive to buy and lower its price, they would make a move to raise gasoline prices. Other than that, they can work on other factors that would further make the car unattractive and pull down its price. With very low demand, it will pull down the price of that car to maybe 50,000 dollars. The shortseller will then close the sell by "buying" your car for 50,000 dollars. The process was just reversed but what really happened was the shortseller "bought" your car for 50,000 dollars and sold it for 100,000 dollars. His net profit from the transaction would be 50,000 from the car he really didn't own, while you, the real owner looses 50,000 dollars.

He continues to make a move to lower the price of your car by tinkering on other factors that will affect the prices of cars. Once it reaches 30,000, he offers to buy it from you. You being in a state of panic sells it to him for 30,000 dollars. He then makes a move to lower the price of gasoline so cars would be attractive again. As the price of the car bounces up to 50,000 dollars, he sells it again profiting 20,000 dollar from the transaction.

From the whole transaction, he profited 70,000 dollars while you lose 70,000 dollars.

He repeats the cycle and profits again. That is how the stock market is being influenced by SHORTSELERS and that is how YOU ARE BEING FLEECED BY THEM. That also explains why the stocks are moving like a roller coaster ride - an up and down movement while it slides further down.

They create the bubble first and then they burst the bubble. THESE PEOPLE ARE UNCONSCIONABLE.

STOP SHORTSELLING TO STOP THIS FINANCIAL MELTDOWN.

It's funny that Fareed Zakaria interviewed GEORGE SOROS and asked him how to solve the financial meltdown problem. It's like asking the problem to make a solution. VERY FUNNY.

But in fairness to him, he gave the right solution to solve the mortgage problem. Very cunning, indeed. Yeah, solve the mortgage problem so he can then proceed to buy the troubled banks AT A DISCOUNT and profit again. VERY CUNNING BUT "THE BOSSES" LIKE PAULSON IS VERY STUPID.

IM NOT SURE THOUGH IF THEY ARE PARTNERS IN CRIME.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 12, 2008 11:14 PM
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Another reason for not bringing it up is Palin carries her own pastor baggage. Along with videos of Rev. Wright, there are videos of Sarah in her churches listening to speakers taking positions on subjects that those outside the fundamentalist community might find disturbing. The majority of Christians don't take the Bible literally and don't look to the end of days or think mentally disturbed persons are possessed by demons. The reaction of those of the mainstream Christian and secular communities may be that it isn't Obama that is "not one of us." It is questionable how well the video of her participating in a ritual laying on of hands and mini-exorcism will play with folks outside of the Pentacostal community. It is as with her implying that Obama's association with a former terrorist, Ayers, makes him a terrorist and traitor. Well, what about sleeping with a traitor. What else can you call someone, her husband, Todd, who belongs to a political party, The Alaskan Independence Party, that want the state to conduct a referendum to determine if the state should separate from the Union; there is no provision in the U.S. Constitution for such a referendum to be conducted after statehood is granted. It may have slipped his mind that the nation fought a cathartic war that settled that issue once and for all, at least for patriots. This "party" requests that a member nation of the U.N. address to that body its grievance that the U.S.'s action making Alaska a state violated international law. In many quarters this would be viewed as treason, i.e., normally, at least as when such an act is committed by those of the left, advocating the overthrow of the federal government is so considered. This political "party" held its 2006 convention in Wasilla, when Palin was mayor, and its 2008 convention in Fairbanks (the capital), where Palin, as governor, delivered it a welcoming address. It is an incontrovertible fact that she has and continues to consort with traitors and endorses the existence of a "party" that seeks to conspire with a foreign powers to overthrow the legal government of the state of Alaska, ergo, she is a traitor, which logically follows from her stated principle of guilt by association.

Posted by: ChuckB | October 12, 2008 11:08 PM
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Palin was found guilty of state ethics violations in her home state.

If she can't follow the rules of the state she governs, why would ANY REASONABLE PERSON think she will follow the rule of God?

She is a phony. Just admit it already!

Posted by: Love GOD, Hate GOP | October 12, 2008 11:08 PM
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I always wondered where all these stories about Obama originated. Eventually the truth comes out. Unfortunately, there are those will remain blind to the truth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13martin.html

Posted by: DM_in_NM | October 12, 2008 11:02 PM
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Responding to:
"[S]he didn't understand "why that association isn't discussed more, because those were appalling things that that pastor had said about our great country, and to have sat in the pews for 20 years and listened to that -- with, I don't know, a sense of condoning it, I guess, because he [Obama] didn't get up and leave..."
Palin did not get up and leave the numerous Alaska Independence Party conventions she attended. As Governor she sent a video greeting to the AIP convention. The AIP is anti-American and fights for Alaska's secession from the Union. From "our great country". Where was her condemnation of the AIP?

Posted by: GreyD | October 12, 2008 10:47 PM
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I would simply like to say that I wish the Washington post would not post all the reader comments. Most of the comments I see on the Washington Post, unlike the New York Times, are rude, thoughtless, and do not add any insight to any of the issues discussed. It would be good if the Washington post screened the comments a bit better and posted only those that bring something to the discussion and do not contain insults.

Posted by: Elaine | October 12, 2008 10:41 PM
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The animosity, the hatred you liberals display toward Sarah Palin is stunning. It is revealing. Most of you (most Democrats/liberals) harbor much hatred in your hearts-hatred toward the military, hatred of our country, hatred of Western ('old dead white-man') values, hatred of the (inconvenient) unborn babies. Hatred of a decent, loving and caring woman and mother of 5. Most of all, a hatred of God. But you are quick to speak of love.

It is the love of yourself that drives you to hate anything or anyone that might interfere with your self worship.

Posted by: Robert B | October 12, 2008 9:56 PM
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Hey Chagasman, way to go with the mindless, baseless personal attacks. You are a credit to "open minded" liberals. Basically Sarah P is a nice, normal, patriotic, God fearing, family adoring, intelligent, independent, gun-toting woman. In other words, the exact opposite of just about every left-wing whack-job that reads the Washington Compost. She strikes fear into the hearts of liberals because of her success. Can't have that....hence the hatred...hence the smears....

Posted by: Robert B | October 12, 2008 9:42 PM
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I suspect that keeping Reverend Wright out of the picture, is due at least in part to a desire to keep the public uninformed about Governor Palins' own equivalent of Reverend Wright.

Posted by: Louis | October 12, 2008 9:30 PM
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Sarah Palin is nothing but a liar and a cheat. She will abuse her power to get her way, and she doesn't care about the law, or the Constitution. She has already proved that with the scandal involving her husband and her sister's ex-wife. She is despicable, and John McCain is a fool.

Posted by: Chagasman | October 12, 2008 9:24 PM
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Obama's Sincerity Doubted Karl Rove, appearing on Fox News last night, and the Washington Post editorial board, among others, cast doubt on the sincerity of Obama's outrage, noting that the controversial statements that offended Obama were nearly identical to those made by Wright numerous times in the past without upsetting the Senator. Rove, on Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, said Obama "drew three statements out that he found particularly unattractive...AIDS, Farrakhan, and terrorism, and the interesting thing...is all of those statements had been made in the past, some of them multiple times in different variations by Reverend Wright over a course of years, and yet senator Barack took umbrage at their repetition yesterday. Did he not take umbrage...the first time that reverend Wright talked about those things years ago?"

The Washington Post, in an editorial, writes, "It seems to us that the whole sorry episode raises legitimate questions about his judgment. Given the long and close relationship between Mr. Obama and the Rev. Wright, voters will ask: How could Mr. Obama have been surprised by the Rev. Wright's views? How could he not have seen this coming? ... At a media availability at an airport Monday afternoon, he displayed none of the anger and sorrow that etched his face in North Carolina one day later."

Posted by: CALIFORNIAMARTY | October 12, 2008 9:20 PM
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Hey PALINHATESUSA, Sarah P belongs to the Republican Party. Her husband belonged to the Alaskan Ind. Party about 15 years ago. And why do you care if he wanted to "succeeed" as you say? Please, get an education and get off the crazy web sites.

Basically Sarah P is a nice, normal, patriotic, God fearing, family adoring, intelligent, independent, gun-toting woman. In other words, the exact opposite of just about every left-wing whack-job that reads the Washington Compost. She strikes fear into the hearts of liberals because of her success. Can't have that....hence the hatred...hence the smears....

I love you "open minded" liberals

Posted by: Robert B | October 12, 2008 9:05 PM
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She really needs to consult her witch doctor before she does the Wright thing. We had Voodoo economics and now we have Voodoo Sarah.

Posted by: Patrick Linskey | October 12, 2008 9:00 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT9nYjqTL10

OBAMA IS THE MESSIAH-LOUIS FARRAKHAN.

Posted by: CALIFORNIAMARTY | October 12, 2008 8:36 PM
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Your column lays out a rational case but I fear rationality has its influence mainly among open minded and intellectually honest persons.

Considering your argument, Palin and others should conclude that statements such as you have quoted by her ought to be avoided.

That would be an honest and rational conclusion, validating your analysis.

Howerver, it seems clear that Palin and by association, McCain, are banking on impluses among their supporters that are irrational and intellectually dishonest.

Take the recent example from Minnesota, where McCain's cloistered integrity could not stand public smears against Obama.

His hypocracy showed as immediately after opposing the smears he loosed again the vehemence that gave an opening to the incindary climate that shocked John Lewis.

What a shame but it's real that Americans, who chose to define themselves as besieged by "others," would rather cling to irrational conclusions and intellectually dishonest allegations than to face the metamorphosis required by change.

From the beginning of the United States of America, its prevailing groups have been beset by demands for change coming from its less advantaged groups.

As Frederick Douglass famously wrote, "Power yields nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will."

Let us hope that demand after demand over the centuries will beget more demand until finally America fulfills its promise as a republic and its destiny as a free society.

Posted by: ed | October 12, 2008 8:33 PM
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People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones - meaning that Palin's questionable ties to the African Pentecostal minister who was involved with hunting "witches" in Africa could be brought to light. Also Palin sleeps with a man (Todd) who was involved in the Alaska secessionist movement and called the U.S. even worse things than Wright did.

See http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brooks4-2008sep04,0,5675222.column and http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/74911.

Posted by: AnIndependent | October 12, 2008 8:27 PM
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Sarah Palin and her husband belong to the Alaska Independence Party, a party that wants to succeeed from the US and whose founder hated the US and died while trying to buy plastic explosives. She also invoked the words of Westbrook Pegler at her speech at the RNC. He was a horrible racist show said of Robert Kennedy:
“Some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow falls.”

This is who Palin admires. She hates this country and minorities. Keep her out of the White House.

Posted by: palinshateusa | October 12, 2008 8:20 PM
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Obama is a Marxist and his associations and his own books prove that. Marxism is anathema to a good economy and the combination will push America into the worst depression since 1929. Telling folks about Obama's sordid associations is not a smear. It is laying out the facts. That the facts are all against him causes him to label it a smear. If the facts were in his favor it would be called a testimonial.

Posted by: CALIFORNIAMARTY | October 12, 2008 8:19 PM
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Yawn. Thanks for another partisan attack. The Post seems to have an endless liberal hacks portrayed as tv ciritcs, fashion editors and commentators on faith. The truth is that they, like the rest of the Post staff, are liberal activists who feel the need to inflict their narrow partisan views on us.

The article doesn't even make the pretense of discussing religion, despite it's placement in the "OnFaith" section. It's just another excuses for another partisan liberal to bore us with his partisan liberal propaganda.

Posted by: Rob Morrow | October 12, 2008 8:18 PM
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Sarah Palin hates the US. Her and her husband belong to the Alaska Independence Party, which wants to succeed from the US and its founder hated the US and spoke openly about his hatred. Also, Palin invoked the words of Westbrook Pegler in her speech at the convention. He was a terrible racist who was against the civil rights movement and speaking of Robert Kennedy said:
“Some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow falls.”
This is who Sarah Palin admires. She is a racist who hates the US. Keep her out of the White House.

Posted by: palinshateuse | October 12, 2008 8:15 PM
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Palin has her own problems and should steer clear of pointing fingers. How about discussing solutions to the major issues facing Americans as they prepare to vote in the next election. Such could include: the financial meltdown, the lack of suitable health care for many Americans, the energy crisis (not totally focused on “drill baby drill”), reestablishing the US as an accepted world leader, ending the two wars with honor, addressing the entitlement shortfalls, and so many more. Who cares about Rev. Wright!

Posted by: edwardatvienna | October 12, 2008 8:15 PM
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Sarah Palin and her husband belong to the Alaska Independent Party, an Anti-American party whose founder spewed anti_American retoric and was killed while buying plastic explosives, most likely to use for a terrorist act. THE PALINS HATE THE USA. KEEP THEM OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

Posted by: SarahhatesUSA | October 12, 2008 8:07 PM
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I do not think Governor Palin has any unquestionable relgious associations compared to Barack Obama. The fact that a VISITNG Pastor was praying for her and blessing her in order to keep her safe from evil witchcraft is a good thing. What he did is no where equal to spouting off anti-American and anti-white hatred that Reverend Wright had been preaching. What's worse is that Barack Obama had no explanation why he attended the Church for 20+ years while Reverend Wright was preaching that crap. More importantly, Barack Obama did not have excuse as to how it would possible for him to not know that Reverend Wright was preaching that kind of crap for over 20 years. Either Barack Obama is clueless Church member who was oblivious to what his pastor was preaching or Barack Obama is a liar. I tend to believe the latter.

Posted by: InSearchOfTruth | October 12, 2008 8:03 PM
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I agree that Barack Obama's questionable associations and bad judgment for attending a hateful, anti-American, racist church for 20+ years helps illuminate what kind of person he is. To know a person is to know the type of people with whom the person in question associates.

Unfortunately, I agree with Sarah Palin that bringing up this issue without mostly concentrating on the economy and what can be done to improve it, will not help John McCain get elected. Thus, John McCain and Sarah Palin need to concentrate on the economy, particularly with John McCain's plan to help people from going going into foreclosure by buying up some of these bad mortgages and renegotiating them. Also, John McCain needs to address and update our trading agreements so that they are more fair towards Americans.

Finally, John McCain needs to reward those American businesses that do not outsource their jobs overseas and instead hire American citizens. He can still be a "Free-Trader" and yet still support and reward American businesses that hire American citizens without penalizing American businesses who do outsource.

Posted by: InSearchOfTruth | October 12, 2008 7:29 PM
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Why is it nonsense to attack anyone based on the nature of their religious beliefs?

Non-Christians do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

Non-Muslims do not believe in Mohammad as a prophet.

Non-Hindus/Buddhists/Jains do not believe in reincarnation.

And so on...

Atheists and agnostics do not believe in God.

Freedom of religion is the right to believe or not believe.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 7:20 PM
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The nature of criticism of the Pentecostal church seems to ignore one important aspect: freedom to practice religion.

Is the Pentacostal church expected to get permission from everyone before it can practice its beliefs? If it harms other human beings that is a different matter. The harm done should be listed first. Saying that many do not agree with the particular set of beliefs doesn't count.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 7:15 PM
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Governor Palin should not be held responsible for what a guest pastor from Kenya may or may not have done in his country. A Christian pastor praying for Gov Palin is wrong?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 7:10 PM
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ALL religions believe in evil (except some New Age groups). Each religion and each sect/denomination deals with the explanation of evil and the ways to deal with it in different ways.

The Pentecostal Church has its own way of describing evil and dealing with it. They are not going about killing anyone. Fasting and praying to be delivered from evil, is a legitimate religious way. Praying for other people is also a legitimate Christian way to deal with evil.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 7:08 PM
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If they bring up Wright, who shockingly expressed less than 100% support for the country that enslaved his people, then deprived them of their full rights for 100 years after freedom, and killed thousands of them for aspiring to full citizenship, then what's next? How about bringing up Palin's snake-charming witch doctor, or her tongue-speaking nut case pastor who believes the world was created in a puff of smoke around the time that the schematic drawings for the Great Pyramid were under review by the Pharaoh's construction company? Hmmm? Maybe it will turn out that Jackboot Barbie is a bit tetched when it comes to religious affiliation.

What ever happened to the gentle pastime of going to the Episcopal Church, for the music?

Posted by: PJTramdack | October 12, 2008 6:53 PM
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crich520@aol.com:

The Pro Life movement is a major player.
No Republican could get elected unless they claim to be Pro life.
Talk about an association of religion running our politics this is it.
Sarah Palin has her nerve, talking about
Rev. Wright, although questionable he talks about the plight of the blacks during a bad era,
she has some questionable associations with her church, and a visiting minister, praying over her to save her from witchcraft.
She is not only Pro Life but wants to legislate her churches views.
Personally, Abortion is not a question that should be part of the campaign, This is not an abortion election.
We are in a major Presidential election.

This abortion issue has been used as way to become embedded in our political system to get the agenda of the base in place, to re write our laws.
No one thinks abortion should be a form of birth control but that is a separate issue.
The solution of how to prevent babies from having babies is the issue.
To punish a young girl is like stoning her in the town square, until dead.

It seems they don't want to work on the main problem: abortion is a church, family, and personal issue.
If the family and the church haven't made an impact, this is there failure.
The idea that the courts can stop abortion and this will end the problem of unwanted babies.
Is wrong.
I have never believed the abortion issue was just about being Pro Life, if that were true, why is the base not trying to save children from dying from lack of food, all over the world?
Why is the base not doing any protests, against the mass killing of children in Iraq and Afganistan.
We chose a war there, and we are killing babies.
It seems they pick and chose at will what lives to save.
That is why I know the issue of abortion is more about changing laws to reflect religious views and to try to legislate morality.

Morality is about the family and how they raise their children. it is about the church and the teaching. Unfortunately, churchs are about fund raising and rich pastors. They do little to serve the common good.

October 12, 2008 1:12 PM

_________________________________________

Please read the comments regarding the issue of abortion posted earlier on this thread. There are also long drawn discussions on the blogs of Catholic America: Panelist Prof Stevens-Arroyo, Professor Mark John Reynolds, Charles "Chuck" Colson & Susan Jacoby.

There are atheists and agnostics who are against abortion.

Hippocrates, the Father of Western medicine, wanted medical doctors not to be a part of abortion, i.e. give pessary to induce abortion.

Read a textbook of human embryology (The Developing Human by Moore and Persaud is a good standard textbook) to understand why abortion is about killing a developing child, which has the right to its life as much in the womb as outside it.

Roe vs Wade is a law, not a Bible verse, hence it can be overturned only by legal means.

As to privacy between the pregnant woman and the doctor: the life of a third innocent party is involved. The right to privacy ends when harm to another human being begins, and in this case the ultimate harm to a completely innocent, defenseless human being.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 6:48 PM
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Who is Hal Turner?

* In my opinion, based on my first hand experience, I believe Sean Hannity is, in fact, a Hal Turner sort of guy. It seems to me that a big difference between Sean and me is that I am willing to say publicly what I think about savage Black criminals, diseased, uneducated illegal aliens and the grotesque cultural destruction wrought by satanic jews while Sean and many others keep quiet to protect their paychecks.

* On Wednesday, March 19, Malik Zulu Shabazz of the New Black Panther Party appeared as a guest on "Hannity & Colmes" to discuss the Obama / Reverend Wright controversy. During that appearance, Sean Hannity asked Shabazz if Barak Obama shouldn"t be judged by his past affiliations with Reverend Wright, to which Shabazz replied by asking Sean Hannity "Should you be judged by your past association with Hal Turner, a neo-Nazi?"I was quite disappointed when Sean Hannity at first tried to say he didn"t know me and then went on to say that I ran some senate campaign in New Jersey. In fact, Sean Hannity does know me and we were quite friendly a number of years ago.

* I can tell you from my firsthand, personal experience that Sean Hannity does, in fact, agree with many of my political and social views.

Posted by: Question | October 12, 2008 6:38 PM
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The world is in a financial crisis (and you have time to debate an old pastor): there is no doubt that the immense borrowing of the U.S. played a major role: this includes the trillions of dollars spent on a ridiculous war: money that could have been spend on schools and colleges, to prepare the nation for the new global century.
Now we have a melt-down of US finances and influence: the pity of it all....

Posted by: chris uk | October 12, 2008 6:20 PM
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"Let there be no doubt: this association is troubling."

It is only "troubling" if you know nothing about Wright other than Hannity's endlessly looped soundbites. He is the pastor of a 6,000 member multi-racial church. The services and sermons have been on TV every Sunday in Chicago for 35 years. No one found Rev. Wright "troubling" until the anti-Obama campaign started. He has never said anything that had not also been said by Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Parsley, or Dobson. He is no racist. And if he's anti-American then his namessake the prophet Jeremiah was anti-Israel. There is a double-standard being applied in these mis-characterizations of the man. The white tele-ayatollahs are Republican Party bigwigs; Wright is just a fiery black preacher.

Posted by: JackB | October 12, 2008 6:16 PM
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Actually, I think the Obama camp have been remarkably kind to Sarah Palin on a lot of issues. Barack Obama made it clear that family was off-limits several times and I agree with this. However, I haven't heard very much about her use of earmarks, specifically the money from the bridge to nowhere or her misappropriation of state funds when staying in her own home. She herself has links with a pastor who gave her some kind of blessing against witchcraft and I have not heard that broadcast in the general media, only on MSNBC. She would be wise to not throw too many stones, her own house is not made of shatter-proof glass.

Posted by: jayemjay | October 12, 2008 6:08 PM
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Palin is a lying politician, she only cares about power and prestige.

Posted by: mike p | October 12, 2008 5:59 PM
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I have two other reasons why Palin doesn't understand: she is not intelligent enough to make sense, and she is willing to use ANY means that will stir religious emotions. Never mind old-fashion decency.
If you were the devil, would you say you were the devil, or would you say you were religious? Come on you "religious" folks, wake up. Reverend Wright doesn't hate America. He hates what America does to its own citizens and people around the world. America is not what most people think. Educate yourself about the Phillipine war, Mexican war, Vietnam, Iraq. We are not the goody-goodies you might think we are. Americans are not humble. We don't need to pound our chests and proclaim our superiority. Why can't we be humble?

Posted by: rhideokim | October 12, 2008 5:58 PM
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what about the witch doctor and AIP?

Posted by: mike p | October 12, 2008 5:47 PM
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Re "...in all honesty, [McCain's connections to Hagee and Parsley] were minor compared with the length, depth and profundity of the Obama/Wright bond."

I respectfully disagree. Wright is a respected community pastor -- with a rock solid military background -- who became angry on a few occasions. Hagee and Parsley are career tele-wackos, spewing anti-Muslim bile week after week, year after year. For McCain to have gone out of his way to welcome them represents a rather odd opportunism on his part, and a frightful lack of appreciation of just how hurtful and harmful John Hagee and Rod Parsley are.

McCain's tone-deaf tendencies were further visible last Friday when, in response to a misinformed woman's claim that Obama was an "arab," he responded "no, ma'am... he's a decent family man." The subtle implication -- intentional or otherwise -- was that arabs are not decent family people. So rather than quelling the hideously misinformed criticism of Obama, he ended up stoking the flames of bigotry via a back door. If that is indeed what McCain meant, I condemn him for it. But if that is not what he meant, then one really must wonder whether a man so lax in thought and speech is qualified to be president in these rough times.

Posted by: JPMinNC | October 12, 2008 5:39 PM
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perhaps we want to know more about the witchdoctor ms panlin contacts. that is if we have nothing better to do as ms palin appears to have nothing better to do.

Posted by: wanda | October 12, 2008 5:35 PM
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Because Sarah Palin's own minister holds Witch Hunts in 2008!

Perhaps Sarah should stick to her own beliefs and leave other's belief's alone.

Patrick

Posted by: Patrick | October 12, 2008 5:33 PM
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Common sense and common decency dictate that someone point out (again) that there must be a serious communication issue in the McCain - Palin camp. It appears to

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 5:17 PM
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How about when Palin sat in the pews at her church while a JEWS-FOR-JESUS preacher ranted on about how God was punishing the Jews in Israel for not accepting Jesus as their savior? She just sat there and took it all in.
Typical GOP hypocrisy--do as I say, not as I do.

Posted by: labman57 | October 12, 2008 5:15 PM
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There is one more "Because".

Because video exists of Palin being blessed by and, later, venerating that blessing by Reverand Muthee, yet another inflammatory, controversial pastor.

Posted by: Jimman35 | October 12, 2008 5:15 PM
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Palin should be attending a church that preaches against adultry. The National Enquirer is the only media with the courage to expose her foul character and low morals. She has had an affair with her husband's business partner. Her daughter is pregnant by a drug dealer and her son had drug problems before he went of to the military. How is she suppose to run a country when she can't control her own family!

Posted by: Sharon J | October 12, 2008 4:58 PM
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In other words, "It's the economy stupid!"

Posted by: Stress | October 12, 2008 4:36 PM
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And also because Palin has her own pastor problems as well as her association with the Alaska Independence Party whose fulminations are equally if not more inflammatory and hostile to the US.

Posted by: Kathleen | October 12, 2008 4:28 PM
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Why dont WE hear about the minister from Kenya
Who "BLESSED" ms Palin in HER church???? HE
previously incited HIS people against a woman
whom HE thought was a WITCH....

Posted by: jean,Texas | October 12, 2008 4:20 PM
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Have you taken the time to watch Bill Moyer's show in which he interviewed Rev. Wright at length and showed excerpts of the speeches that were supposed to be so damning. I did and it helped me understand that many of his comments had been taken way out of context and used against him for media sound bites in a completely unjustifiable way if the purpose was to inform and educate rather than to sway the voters with fear by keeping them ignorant. After seeing this program I don't agree with your comments at all. Racism in the U.S. is clearly stronger than I would have liked to believe two years ago but this is a reality that Wright and his parishioners have to live with daily -- that might tend to give you a different world view than a white 'beauty' queen or an admiral's son.

Also, if we are going to go down this road, not only McCain but Palin have some answering to do about their choice of pastors.

Posted by: E Roman | October 12, 2008 4:18 PM
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Hey - you forgot to mention Palin's association with a witch hunting minister from Africa. How scary is that? Our possible VP believing in witches and demons? not for me.

d

Posted by: Dave Galloway | October 12, 2008 4:12 PM
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The only thing I am now capable of adding to this or any other discussions concerning this election is that I am so frightened, disgusted, and burned out by reading about and witnessing the racist, erratic, lying McCain/Palin campaign on the news, in the papers, the talk shows, magazines, blogs, internet, etc. is that for the sake of my own health I must withdraw till election day and then decide, if Obama doesn't win, if I can bear to live in a country, in a society that couldn't elect him.

Posted by: auramac | October 12, 2008 4:08 PM
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Adam Dawson,

In 73' the courts said you didn't have a right to stick your nose in the privacy between woman and her doctor. No one tells you how you should treat your prostrate cancer. There are privacy issues in all health care.

So when I get to decide whether you should have a vasectomy or not, come back a post your trite poems.

Act as Jesus would have you act. Teach Bible study, help pregnant girls, teach safe sex or abstinance. But quit whining.

Posted by: Adrasteia | October 12, 2008 4:07 PM
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Bush, "But I got rid of an evil dictator cause he threatened my papa."
McCain, "But I was a POW... doesn't that count for something?"
St. Peter, "Sorry George and Johnny, it's what you did for others that counts not what others did to you. NEXT!"

Bush-McCain Iraq War to Cost $2.3 Trillion and Cost Tens of Thousands of Lives, American and Iraqi
WASHINGTON — The cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could total $2.4 trillion through the next decade, or nearly $8,000 per man, woman and child in the country, according to a Congressional Budget Office estimate.

McCain Sells Out Vets
There's little evidence that John McCain will do anything, if elected, to ... John McCain voted against veterans in 2004, '05, '06 and '07.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080602/beutler

Court strikes down EPA's plan on mercury
By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - A federal appeals court said Friday the Bush administration ignored the law when it imposed less stringent requirements on power plants to reduce mercury pollution, which scientists fear could cause neurological problems in 60,000 newborns a year

Reason for War? Deals With Iraq Are Set to Bring Oil Giants Back
By ANDREW E. KRAMER
BAGHDAD - Four Western oil companies are in the final stages of negotiations this month on contracts that will return them to Iraq, 36 years after losing their oil concession to nationalization as Saddam Hussein rose to power.

The Great Wealth Transfer
It's the biggest untold economic story of our time: more of the nation's bounty held in fewer and fewer hands. And Bush's tax cuts are only making the problem worse.

Not Your Father's Pay: Why Wages Today Are Weaker
American men in their 30s today are worse off than their fathers' generation, a reversal from just a decade ago, when sons generally were better off than their fathers, a new study finds.

Study Finds Rich-Poor Income Gap Growing
By MARK JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
The disparity between rich and poor is growing in America as the federal minimum wage has remained flat for years, union membership has declined and industries have faced global competition, according to a study released Thursday.

VetVoice:: The Legend of John McCain
McCain Voted Against Increased Funding for Veterans' Health Care.
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1794

Bush-McCain: Christians you can count on!

Posted by: Tom Rigney | October 12, 2008 4:00 PM
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Bush-McCain: "Welfare for the rich is OK, it's just the poor who we can't afford to give welfare to."

More tax cuts for oil companies.
More tax cuts for the wealthy.
Cut benefits for elderly and sick.

Bush-McCain: Christians you can count on!

Posted by: Tom Rigney | October 12, 2008 3:55 PM
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While I don't suscribe to hate mongering I do understand Rev. Wright's comments & the frustration of many African-Americans. I am a black, debutante daughter, sorority sister ofthe South. I am college educated, a practicing attorneyn unmarried & childless, a good girl my parents would say. But if I go in Saks with my workout gear on after visiting the gym white women will clutch their bags if I enter the elevator, if I shop with my white Goddaughter strangers will assume she's lost, if someone comes to my office for an appointment they assume I'm the secretary, and when I advise that I am not a product of public housing or minority set-asides no one seems to believe that to be possible. Because of this I like to think that I'm as patriotic as a black woman can be living in these United States. That does not mean that my patriotism is questionable. To find patriotism in the wake of what is often times racism or indifference due to stereotypes or not knowing. Teaching tolerence is about mixing it up & realizing that at our core we're really not that different at all.

Posted by: Kimberly | October 12, 2008 3:41 PM
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If you really want to rile up a right-winger, say something unflattering about America. It's like being in Dallas Cowboys territory and saying something unflattering about their quarterback. It just isn't done. With right-wingers, you take your life in your hands when you say something true but that they don't like. For your examination, I present Sarah Palin. The Rev. Wright was upset about the way Negroes have historically been treated by the dominant culture in America. He threw out some verbal stingers that, while appropriate to the context, are interpreted by right-wingers as proof that Rev. Wright is unAmerican, and by association, so is Barack Obama. Baloney. Baloney.

Posted by: BlueTwo1 | October 12, 2008 3:37 PM
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"Let there be no doubt: this association is troubling."

Doubt is the identity of uncertainty which is the beginning of inquiry which is necessary for learning.

Let me put that another way: Berlinerblau has a tendency to talk like a jerk.

I myself have some questions about Wright's apparent admiration for Farakhan. given Farakhan's anti-Semitism. On the other hand, the Black Islam movement has contributed greatly to the African American community, and our media optics have a tendency to blow up any evidence of anti-Semitism into scandal. How important is Farakhan's anti-Semitism in the context of the whole of his preaching?

Which leads us to ask, how important is
Wright's recognition of Farakhan in the context of the whole of his preaching?

Which leads us to asking whether this two-degrees of separation tells us anything at all about Obama's judgement and character?

I'll offer another vision of the question we might ask about Obama: Not if he is too much a radical, but if he is too much of a "go along to get along" kind of guy.

Wright's church was very much an accepted and even middle-of-the-road home of the black middle class in Chicago. Ayers is also part of the accepted scene in education policy in Chicago. Obama is very concerned with not rocking the boat; his "change we need" doesn't offer much challenge to the political establishment; it is mostly a change of attitude, not a shake-up of the standing order.

There can be no doubt: its all a tempest in a teapot.

Posted by: Let There be doubt | October 12, 2008 3:26 PM
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McCain had Hagee, Parsley, and Palin has Muthee. They had better be careful, before these associations explode over the internet.

Posted by: Natalie | October 12, 2008 3:09 PM
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Here is another reason to fear someone like Sarah Palin--she's a poster child for hypocrisy. She will wear the robe of her faith when she thinks it can get votes and forgets that her faith teaches its followers to, "Judge not, least ye also be judge." As your examples about McCain's "pastor disasters" indicate, he who is without sin should cast the first stone. Has Palin forgotten the countless times she has admonished young people to abstain from sex--only to find out that while she's been preaching to external ears, she's not resonated with those ears over which she should have the most influence.

Media and Obama has respected her family privacy, but there is still a question about her responsibility. Thanks to the concerns of her (and hubby's) roles back in Alaska, I suspect she will continue to avoid the "liberal media". She'll be available for interviews from the Fox network and others who the campaign considers more sympathetic to the governor, but that won't get the right questions answered. This nation (and the world) is in deep trouble. I trust in God and know that He is still in control--regardless of who wins in November (and future elections). Our job, as the faithful, is to hold elected officials accountable--regardless of party.

What has Governor Palin heard preached in her spiritual experience that she wouldn't want others to know about? How diverse and open are her religious affiliations? Why hasn't she spoken out about the racist and misleading views that have been perpetuated by campaigns--especially the racially divisive ones? Does she think lying is bad for the faithful but OK when you're running for office?

I don't always agree with everything I've heard from pastors or family members. But, their views aren't necessarily my views and their ways aren't my ways. I'll suggest that McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden focus on the things that they can control from the White House---starting with not judging one another and working on trying to right the last eight wrong years that this country has endured.

Posted by: EJ | October 12, 2008 3:04 PM
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"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, strength & soul."

"Love thy neighbor as I have loved you."

Two simple rules or guidelines if you will, given two thousand years ago, yet so difficult for many "Christians" to follow. Even worse, interpreted radically in different ways by "Christians". "Our God, their God" etc.

I can only imagine the shame Martin Luther or John Calvin might feel if they could see how the people interpreting their theological philosophies have evolved.

A point was made earlier and rightly so, this election about who can best lead our country and the rest of the free world.

Religious morality belongs in our hearts. Leading by example through words and deeds is the way. Providing a positive opportunity for our children to hopefully make the right choices in life.

There is only one God and he loves us all.

Two simple rules........

Posted by: DM_in_NM | October 12, 2008 2:54 PM
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The McCain/Palin ticket is grasping at straws, the last act of a desperate, loosing team. I hope they don't try to pull the rest of the country down with them as they sink into much deserved oblivion. Hiding behind a facade of false religion only shows how unprincipled they are & how unworthy of winning their ticket is.

Posted by: Mike | October 12, 2008 2:46 PM
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I keep reading that Americans don't want to hear about someone who is a close associate of Obama who says God Damn America because they want to hear what McCain will do about the economy. I disagree. But I do agree that Obama is benefiting from the fear of being called a racist. In addition, McCain was leading in the polls last I saw raw, unadjusted numbers. Therefore, he does not need the kitchen sink.

Also, Sean Hannity and others will continue to raise the association. The media keeps asking about these associations so they are in the forefronts of our minds.

I may be one of the few African Americans who will vote against a liberal socialist minded Obama. I don't like McCain's ideas for the economy because the free market offers opportunity for gain and loss. The subprime market was a government sector forced upon the free market by the likes of Obama.

Posted by: A Jeffrey | October 12, 2008 2:44 PM
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I am sick and tired of hearing about columnists and pundits and the media talking about Sen. Obama's taste in pastors and listening to racist rants for 20 years, especially when you all have listened to a few seconds of sound bites and made them 20 years of racist rantings.

Understand that the civil rights movement's mainstay was in the black church where there were preachings against the injustices being perpetrated in this country. Apparently you don't remember the bombing of four little girls in a black church or the murders of civil rights workers, and one can go on and on with the acts of racisms that were being perpetrated upon a people considered inferior by a group of people who saw themselves as superior. You, Mr. Berlinerblau, should go back and revisit the tortuous history of this country. Rev. Wright has no place in this election without equally paying attention to Sarah Palin's religious associates as well as John McCain's. You in the media need to let it go unless you have a tape of every sermon of Rev. Wright over the last 20 years, as well as having sat in the pews of many black churches over the last 20 years. I guarantee you will hear sermons of injustices, but that doesn't mean being anti-American.

Posted by: Barbara | October 12, 2008 2:43 PM
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Proverbs 6:12-19

12 A scoundrel and villain,
who goes about with a corrupt mouth,

13 who winks with his eye,
signals with his feet
and motions with his fingers,

14 who plots evil with deceit in his heart—
he always stirs up dissension.

15 Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant;
he will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.

16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 2:34 PM
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To all who think that the Rev. Jeremiah Wright issue should be brought up again, I say we have heard it before. What else could there possibly be to learn? We witnessed a few sound bytes from a Minister who obviously has great passion for people. It is true what Rev. Wright speaks about. As an African American we have heard "these" sermons thoughout our lives and if we got up and left the Church every time we heard something we did not agree with, we would not have "any" religious affliations. I also have been in predominately white congregations and seen and heard some things that I did not agree with.

John McCain and Sarah Palin have been in these rallies and heard the racist comments over and over again. It wasn't until John McCain's hand was forced that he started to make comments to his "congregation" that these comments were not to be tolerated. Sarah Palin is the main culprit spewing this garbage. How is this going to look for race relations in this country when your own VP nominee says such things.

I think John McCain could have possibly committed political suicide by selecting Sarah Palin. As a woman I am embarrassed for her. She sets the progression for women back 50 years with her lack of knowledege of basic issues. Women work too hard trying to get a great education for equal pay for equal work. This lady has come from the bridge to nowhere and apparently with her rhetoric isn't going anywhere.

Posted by: CG | October 12, 2008 2:33 PM
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Sarah Palin is a dangerous woman.
She has set the woman's movement back to the 60's by allowing herself to be used as a bit-bull to say every negative thing against Obama , to spree out of her tight lipped smile.
Watching the McCain rally in Wisconsin and in Johnston Pa I was sicken by her volatile rhetoric.

She really fans the flames of division and all with a wink and a smile.

Besides the VP spot ..what have they promise this woman!
If she represents a type of divisive Christianity "so called" and wins the VP spot ..God help us all.

Posted by: bahminj | October 12, 2008 2:22 PM
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As someone looking at the campaigns from outside the country, it seems to me that Sarah Palin's church affiliations are far more dangerous to America than those of Barack Obama. The certainty that God is on their side has proven extremely harmful. There is also the salacious story of a man who identified a rival as a witch being chosen to lay hands on Mrs. Palin and to protect her.

Posted by: Margaret Matthews | October 12, 2008 2:21 PM
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Can we also not forget Ms. Palin and her association with a wacko secessionist group? Avowed terrorists? Oh, that is right... forgive her because... Heck, I don't know... she is "just a woman"? A silly little "doesn't mean any harm" opportunist? Give me a break. She is a full blow Nazi who would fit in perfect in 1933 Germany with her fans who spout out that their opposition to Obama is because, "It's in the blood." Yes, she would fit right in with all the rest of the Nazis.

Posted by: Darren7160 | October 12, 2008 2:19 PM
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If the McCain Campaign wants to bring up Rev. Wright, will they also want to discuss their own religious backgrounds? Sarah Palin has the witch hunter pastor past that is on video.

Religion is a right that is not to be judged and the "Conservative" party should know this. There are many religions in this country and none have the right to question the faith of another.

Perhaps the so called "Conservative Christians" should read their Bible and remember what they have been taught!

Linda in Indiana

Posted by: Linda | October 12, 2008 2:09 PM
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I would love for religion to be discussed in the campaign. I think McCain would lose with his choice of a running mate. Sarah Palin from what I read on the web has a lot of baggage in the discussion of religion. I have also been reading about an extramarital affair she has had. Check it out on the web under "Sarah Palin and an extramarital affair". They even give his name. He was a former business partner of her husband. I would like to know if it is true.

Marie Hughes

Posted by: Marie Hughes | October 12, 2008 1:59 PM
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You forgot the most important point: Sarah Palin lives in a glass igloo. A mere six weeks ago, Gov. Palin "sat in the pews" and "didn't get up and leave" when David Brickner, founder of Jews for Jesus described terrorist attacks as God's "judgment of unbelief" against Jews who refused to embrace Christianity. So who exactly is "palling around" with those who would embrace terrorism?

Posted by: Frank F | October 12, 2008 1:56 PM
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Over at the Six-Pack residence, Sundays mean beer and football. Joe fully understands going to church every Sunday for 20 years and not really listening to what the pastor is saying.

Posted by: G. Ziemann | October 12, 2008 1:46 PM
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Palin's inciting crowds to believe Obama's a terrorist is little different from Goebbles oratory raising the masses against the Jews. It's unpatriotic and it's dangerous for the future of our country.

Will someone think it their patriotic duty to assassinate Obama when he wins because of it?

A large part of the Pubz' base which doesn't make 6 figure incomes is a bunch of beer sloshed, soap opera watching, trailer park reject lemmings fawning over a sort of pretty face with a cocky attitude and a lot of fluff between the ears. If she's dumb, they're dumber.

Posted by: HiloBob | October 12, 2008 1:41 PM
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So I guess in Palin's version of Christianity the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" is optional?

This is exactly why making Christianity a central weapon in your political arsenal is such a mistake.

Posted by: Hillman | October 12, 2008 1:25 PM
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I am concerned that the types of issues being pursued, may incite some unstable people to do harm if they think Obama may win.
Will the GOP, Palin, and McCain, walk away like they had nothing to do with it?
People like Willaim Kristol are dangerous people.
It was the Kristol Doctrine for the 21 century that was responsible for Bush's policies.
Kristol is mostly known by the conservations and not well know by most democrats or even Independents.
I looked his doctrine up on the internet, this guy is not only radial, he believes we should be an IMperialist Nation. To take over the Middle East and gain foothoods in that region, and it goes on..
He has been advising McCain, and Palin, on the current campaign stategy.
It was a proven fact that Rove was an unscruplous conservative that would do anything, legal or not to get the vote.
He is now behind the scenes still making suggestions and has influence.
I am not surprised that the GOP is going in all directions, they are complete with lots of extreme ideas.
The Pro Life movement is a major player.
No Republican could get elected unless they claim to be Pro life.
Talk about an association of religion running our politics this is it.
Sarah Palin has her nerve, talking about
Rev. Wright, although questionable he talks about the plight of the blacks during a bad era,
she has some questionable associations with her church, and a visiting minister, praying over her to save her from witchcraft.
She is not only Pro Life but wants to legislate her churches views.
Personally, Abortion is not a question that should be part of the campaign, This is not an abortion election.
We are in a major Presidential election.

This abortion issue has been used as way to become embedded in our political system to get the agenda of the base in place, to re write our laws.
No one thinks abortion should be a form of birth control but that is a separate issue.
The solution of how to prevent babies from having babies is the issue.
To punish a young girl is like stoning her in the town square, until dead.

It seems they don't want to work on the main problem: abortion is a church, family, and personal issue.
If the family and the church haven't made an impact, this is there failure.
The idea that the courts can stop abortion and this will end the problem of unwanted babies.
Is wrong.
I have never believed the abortion issue was just about being Pro Life, if that were true, why is the base not trying to save children from dying from lack of food, all over the world?
Why is the base not doing any protests, against the mass killing of children in Iraq and Afganistan.
We chose a war there, and we are killing babies.
It seems they pick and chose at will what lives to save.
That is why I know the issue of abortion is more about changing laws to reflect religious views and to try to legislate morality.

Morality is about the family and how they raise their children. it is about the church and the teaching. Unfortunately, churchs are about fund raising and rich pastors. They do little to serve the common good.

Posted by: crich520@aol.com | October 12, 2008 1:12 PM
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When anyone listened to the entirety [rather than sound bytes played endlessly by the MSM] of Rev. Wright's sermons they were eye-opening, compelling and extremely truthful, but so many people were just happy to hear what the MSM promoted - sound bytes - and alas, they remain as ignorant as ever! Generally, I find these people the very same ones who wouldn't vote for Obama either [regardless of the excuse they provide but we all know the underlying reason].

For these people to think that with McCain and Palin they will receive any different policies than they have received these past 8 years from our latest GOP leader BUSH, they are sadly mistaken because they will get more of the same corruption, economic turmoil and stagnation, lacking education standards, continued environmental positions, and the continuous never-ending war in Iraq and the 'real terrorists' will find their way back to America.

But these people either love the direction our country has been headed or they just can't stand the thought that a bi-racial man could actually lead America up a superior path because the color of his skin is a little darker than theirs. What crap for brains in their reasoning! They must be of the same intellect as Palin - none! They seem to forget that we are all CONNECTED whether they like it or not! Obama would help our entire country [rich, poor, red, white, black, brown, yellow, young, old, etc,] to a better richer life and he would NOT segregate against or leave behind anyone including McCain/Palin supporters. EVERYONE would be included in bettering ourselves and our lives. But if McCain/Palin manage to win, we will continue to be stuck in the antiquated wasteful thinking of yesterday and continue down in 'Bush-land' for at least 4 more years of darkness.

Posted by: Josephine | October 12, 2008 1:08 PM
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Ms Margaret Hood's plentiful comments show why education is so very important along with upholding and defending our Constitution. I am horrified by all of the other totally ignorant comments here too. THIS IS NOT THE SAME COUNTRY I WAS BORN IN. This is NO Longer The UNITED States of America.

So here is a brief education of what America is,

1. It is a place where religious freedom is the Law. You are free to believe however you want and more importantly, if you don't want to believe in anything at all. You are forbidden by LAW from keeping a person from practicing their religion as they see fit.

2. You are entitled to the right to Life, Liberty, and to pursue happiness as you see fit.

3. You are entitled to the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and authorities/government does not have the right to terminate your rights or sieze property without probable cause AND due process.

4. The LAW is that anyone over the age of 35 is able to become President provided they were born in the US or were born to at least one US citizen and their birth was properly recorded by the US State Department.

5. There is NO LAW stating that a presidential candidate must adhere to any religion...see #1

So for all of those who seem to think that Mr Obama is Muslim, Arab, the anti-christ, whoever...Whilst you are entitled to them, please take your ignorance, unpatriotic, and unconstitutional attitudes someplace else. You will cause this country's destruction.

Please do everyone a favour, read the US Constitution, to learn what your rights are and more importantly, to learn and know what everyone else's rights are.

Posted by: Sierra | October 12, 2008 1:05 PM
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and of course we have Palin's church problems, with the blessing against witchcraft, the antisemitic rants (afte she left), etc.

Posted by: JoeT | October 12, 2008 12:55 PM
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AMERICAN VOTERS, LOOK FOR HONESTY,ADRESSING THE REAL ISSUES OPENLY, AND THE PRESS BEING ABLE TO INTERVIEW ALL IN THE ELECTION AND THIS INCLUDES PALIN. THE USA NEEDS TO HAVE THE IRS TO TAX ANY ONE FILEING TAX EXAMPT WHEN THEY VIOLATED THE TAX EXAMPT RULES. FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS NOT FREE IF ONE FILES TAX EXAMPT. RELIGION DOES NOT BELONG IN AMERICAN GOVERMENT BY OUR LAW. FOR YOU THAT DISAGREE, WHAT WHOULD YOU SAY IF IT WHERE ISLM VIEWS IN GOVERMENT?

Posted by: usapdx | October 12, 2008 12:52 PM
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I've always thought Obama's nutso preacher was fair game, just like the lunatics supporting McCain who are pining for armeggedon. Just different sides of the same coin, in my opinion. In Obama's and McCain's defense, I think they probably don't believe a word of Christian mythology. They just have to pretend they do to satisfy Joe and Jane Six Pack.

Posted by: Cletus | October 12, 2008 12:39 PM
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I believe the reason it will not work to bring Wright's name up again is simply because if Palin had been paying attention at the beginning of the year, [you know, um, by perhaps by reading a newspaper or watching any MSM network which I'm sure is available in Alaska] perhaps she would have known that Rev. Wright] [whom I thought was incredibly intelligent and was speaking a lot of truth] was the ONLY issue being discussed by the MSM for a complete month. But being as she doesn't read, as verified by her lack of answer when asked by Couric, [but she is now trying to refute her lack of answer three days later in her FIXED NEWS interview], caused our entire country to KNOW FOR A FACT this woman is really an empty vessel. She truly lacks BRAINS, INTELLECT, AND KNOWLEDGE of NATIONAL, WORLDLY, HISTORICAL OR CURRENT EVENTS - in other words she's as STUPID AS A ROCK! So I believe your reasoning above is true, but I also think my observation stands on equal footing.

Posted by: MadasHell | October 12, 2008 12:34 PM
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Couldn't have said it better. It's an irrelevant issue. About 85% of America is tired f the culture wars.

Posted by: Scy | October 12, 2008 12:33 PM
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I'm sure McCain's campaign is reluctant to bring up Rev. Wright because he'll have to explain his relationship with, and the endorsement he sought from, Rev. Hagee, who he once referred to as an agent of intolerance. And dear Sarah would have to explain why she's being exorcised by a "witch doctor". I'd be willing to bet that Ms. Palin hasn't even watched national politics closely enough to be aware of the Hagee issue.

Posted by: ggwalt | October 12, 2008 12:24 PM
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Someone needs to remind McCain and especially Palin that the health of a democracy depends --ABSOULUTELY DEPENDS-- on the ability and freedom of citizens to criticize the government and the status quo.

I am another white voter who does not find Wright's comments particularly offensive if taken in context. These vitriolic comments about the USA are in many way justified -- my goodness, folks, put yourselves in the shoes of a member of a poor black person living in the inner city!!! Plus, these comments are not ALL the Wright said for 30 years. Is he provocative? Yes, of course he is. But criticizing wrongs inflicted on the most oppressed citizens of our nation is not just a right but a duty. Listening to those criticisms is enlightening and important. Just covering your ears and screaming so shrilly, as Palin does, that the US is beyond reproach is downright UNPATRIOTIC.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen | October 12, 2008 12:19 PM
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You conveniently left out Sarah Palin's Witch Doctor? Those who live in glass cathedrals should not throw stones.

Posted by: David Chandler | October 12, 2008 12:09 PM
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Hey America, It's really not so hard. Vote for Barack Obama and you get $$George Soros, William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and Fidel Castro...all in one big snake pit, along with the Follywood elitists! Then you will have the African-Nationalist party, NAACP and all the other racists groups who "never had any love for my country!"
Vote for the honorable Sen John McCain and Gov Sarah Palin, who not only whipped up on the establishment but honored the American people by getting rid of corruption in government and those who are self-serving carrer minded politicans ONLY!
We are safe and we will have honored our men and women in the United states armed services by standing by them as they have US!! Thank you!

Posted by: Margaret Hood | October 12, 2008 11:52 AM
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I would just like to mention that the "Values Voters," who form a very significant part of the Republican base, recently had a convention where a choir sang the following song.

"Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back
On everything that made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sin and heal our land

The courts ruled prayer out of our schools
In June of ‘62
Told the children “you are your own God now
So you can make the rules”
O say can you see what that choice
Has cost us to this day
America, one nation under God, has gone astray

Why should God bless America?
Shes’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land

In ‘73 the Courts said we
Could take the unborn lives
The choice is yours don’t worry now
It’s not a wrong, it’s your right

But just because they made it law
Does not change God’s command
The most that we can hope for is
God’s mercy on our land

Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land"

Is this not the same sort of rhetoric used by Reverend Wright? Is it not simply an evangelical version of "God Damn America?" Yet no one is demanding that the Republican pary sever ties with James Dobson, Tony Perkins or any of the numerous advocacy groups with the word "Family" prominently mentioned in their names.

Posted by: Adam Dawson | October 12, 2008 11:47 AM
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I am proud to be a Christian and an Obama supporter! I felt it was my Christian duty to vote for Obama, a duty I felt happy to fufill.
I believe in Obama and I feel good about Obama leading our nation.

Posted by: Ron | October 12, 2008 11:46 AM
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Dear Americans, In the next few weeks, you and I will go to the polls to elect the next president of the United States of America. This man must be ready to excercise this power and lead not only America but the free world. It is not enough to black, man, woman etc, but he MUST have the qualifications and record of experience, and that means not just a communiyt organizer, or PTA, Scout master, or Sunday school teacher. But he or SHE must have been tested and tried. Must have a record that is not SEECRETIVE AND PROTECTED from the Amerian people! We demand unimiginative scrutnity into every phase of this persons life!
Many of us are questioning Barack Obama's record, which thus far is limited to a community organizer whose programs was given big $$ and funded by the federal grants, including salaries to those in charge! Many are questioning these gov't sponsored programs that have proover to be less than with favorable results. If so, then it was those who received less than was intended whle salaries and personl causes was where it was all spent, but with good inteneions I'm sure!!
Those who would expolit the poor for their own pesonal agenda whether it be politics or religion,I will say shame on you, and God watches!
I cannot believe the Democratic pary thu Hiliary Clinton and Joe Lieberman under the bus, so that the left in this country could be appeased and their VOTE COUNTS! This is partisan politics at its best. A word to the worst Congress this nation has ever been served up! This congress put party before the well being of our natin in a time of war! I can never forgive many for allowing this economy to trickle down to what we see today. yOU MIGHT SAY 'TIMING IS EVERYTHING! Now we have a choice. To vote for an unknown, little experience except for the debate team at HARVARD! No experience except to circumvent due process with a great command of the English language, and a really big smile! So where am I going with all this. There really is no choice except to vote two people who have the experience and the moral conviction to PUT AMERICA FIRST!"
That tickeT is MCCAIN-PALIN. EXTRAORDINAIRE!

Posted by: Margaret Hood | October 12, 2008 11:42 AM
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Over my lifetime of 65 years, there have been many times that I have been angry at this country. I was forced to attend segregated elementary schols where we received "hand-me-down" books & other supplies. I was in college in the 60s when JFK, civil rights workers and children in a church were assasinated, lynched and bombed. Ironically, I was in uniform defending "our" freedom when Rev King was assassinated for wanting the same privileges for Black people. I watched a "southern strategy" cultivated by Republican conservatives that is now aligned with "social conservatism" which, if given the chance, would turn back the clock to an earlier time.

However, in spite of my anger at times, I did not abandon my country, or its basic tenets, nor lose hope that things could change -- evolve into something that is a force for good for all.

And, I would wear the uniform again if I had to, and I may likely get angry again, as well.

Posted by: Charles | October 12, 2008 11:37 AM
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If Palin or McCain's pastor had said G.D. America, we'd never hear the end of it in the WP. But, since it was B. Hussein Obama's spiritual mentor--it's OK. Obama says he's been to 57 states, he's tired and is given a pass. Any gaffe by Obama, Biden, or any supporters are not reported. Fair you aint!

Posted by: Fergie | October 12, 2008 11:36 AM
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It is sad that Gov. Palin seems to lack the insight to tackle our financial problems or our health care problems, and only seems to have the ability to attack people's character. When this campaign is over, Gov. Palin will have destroyed what little credibility she ever had. That's sad for Sarah Palin, and sad for the good people of Alaska that she represents. I really expected more out of her, and I really expected John McCain to run a campaign based more on a real discussion of issues and not a campaign based on character attacks. I think most, not all, people in this country are much smarter than Palin or McCain are crediting them.

Posted by: Jim West | October 12, 2008 11:34 AM
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"Because Joe and Jane Six-Pack also have retirement funds"

...please.

They are on a frozen pension if they have any sort of retirement plan at all.

But what irks me here is the concern with some supposed segment of the population that drinks a six-pack of beer...who exactly are these people? Let me understand, they work at..."plants"? What are they? This involves some sort of manufacturing, right?

And exactly what percentage of American workers work at "plants", manufacturing things? Like...auto-plants, airplane-plants, what?

Surely you're not talking about GM and Boeing workers, here, right? I don't think that they are worried about their 401k plans, they are worried about having a job next week.

Posted by: jfc1 | October 12, 2008 11:29 AM
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Maybe because McCain is afraid that if he did that, the media would pick up on the video of Palin being blessed to keep her safe by a pastor who hunts down witches and who prays that she will not be the victem of witchcraft.

Posted by: Nancy Kline | October 12, 2008 11:28 AM
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For me this is the worst U.S. Presidential election ever because in my opinion (humble): Senator McCain has a good defense message, but obsolete, and must be improved! Gov. Sarah Palin enjoys hunting, which is something that I find atrocious, and consider it as murdering innocent animals in their environment. Senator Barack Obama worries me sick because his extremist ideas that he tries to minimize including his staff meeting regularly with infamous Hugo Chavez. And, last but not least, Senator Obama's attending weekly religious messages full of hatred for twenty years!. The only one that I really like is Senator Biden, and certain journalists blame him of plagiarism.

The next presidential candidates’ debate should be to clarify those issues.

My blog is: http://maruangarita.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Maru Angarita | October 12, 2008 11:21 AM
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Let me first say how much I expouse any form of communism and it sister "socialism". We are as America have seen countries fall because their govt's became to big, to extreme and their economy lay in ruins. Now Today, we are seeing much of these trying to be resurected again while trying to get it RIGHT this time! The chorus is familar,only the names of the radicals who tried and failed have doned sport coats and ties on Wall Street and have found a real leader of their common goals for America to the forefront of even the presidency of the United States of Ameida. When will they learn?? Any gov't that is not by the people and for the people is simply wortless, while causing class hatred among its people. Ameria do not be fooled by those who planed this econoomy around election time to fail. And therefore the candidate who pushes SOCIALISM can point the finger bring up its goals of FORCED work, forced religion, and our God replaced by humanism and Gov't becomes 'GOD". No thank you Mr. Obama. America is a whole lot smarter than your Rev. Jeremiah Wright and his congregaton who can't let go of the past and preach the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, whom your beloved former' pastor seems to have lost his way in knowing. If Obama is elected president of the United States of America, it will lie at the foot of those who used journalism as their tool for change that would only destory an America that our forfathers envisioned and gave us the mantel to pass on to generations to come. That without freedom and democracy, there can be no ecoonomy, no religion, NO CHOICE! Senator John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin stand for AMERICA FIRST. Changing the old guard of DO NOTHIN'S even in time of attack, and replace it with real leadership that shows EXPERIENCE and MORALITY stilll count in this country and it doesn't take a HARVERD ELITISTS to know the plain and simple truth. VOTE THE TICKE THAT WILL NOT LET YOU AS AN AMERICAN GUN TOTIN' BIBLE THUMPIN' SIMPLE MINDED PERSON WHO GOD CREATED AND REMEMBER "GOD MADE YOU AND ME A PERSON OF FREE WILL AND CHOICE." AND GOD DON'T MAKE NO JUNK! Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA*************

Posted by: Margaret Hood | October 12, 2008 11:18 AM
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To further your arguement, Palin also has a very odd religious association that she still openly supports. And that is the association with people who believe that she is a tool of god to run this country (Like Ester (sp?) in the old testimate is one comparison) and who pray to have all of the witchcraft removed from her. While I am fine with her believe in this and going to this type of church I do believe that most people would find this a bit scary for the President to have such beliefs (Remember it was George Bush who believed that God told him to invade Iraq?) Especially the part where Alaska is going to be the caretaker of the US once the final battle between good and evil takes place. If people were to watch film clips (they are on Youtube) of Sarah being blessed I think they too would be scared. So, my conclusion is that bringing up Obama's preacher could force there to be more attention on her religious associations which I believe would be a negative.

Posted by: ernest | October 12, 2008 11:17 AM
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The only people Rev. Wright seems to be offending are white people. To many black people, Rev. Wright is making perfect sense. Walk a mile in the shoes of a black person, see the disrespect they are shown, feel the discrimination that is given to them. Then maybe you'll see why Rev. Wright strikes a chord in his community.

Posted by: Al Wilson | October 12, 2008 11:07 AM
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It is amazing that you didn't bring up a more relevant point: Sarah Palin's pastors aren't exactly palatable to mainstream America themselves. That video of her being blessed by Pastor Thomas Murthee would be fair game for the Obama campaign if McCain started using Rev. Wright as a campaign issue. A man who rose to prominence through identifying an innocent woman as a witch, then actually driving her out of town in front of a lynch mob he stirred up makes Rev. Wright look respectable.

Posted by: John Watlington | October 12, 2008 11:04 AM
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Mc Cain has enough skeletons in his closets, however many closets that he has, (he probably doesn't know either) that he probably is just now figuring out how dangerous it can be to open the closets and start messing around in there. Many of his past associations are ones not to be proud of and Palin's behavior in Alaska is just a trifle shady. The only reason the Obama campaign has shied away for going there is because he said he would not go down and dirty. I THOUGHT Mc Cain said that too, but I guess I was wrong.
The reason Mc Cain doesn't speak to the economy, is because he hasn't a clue what to say. So changing the subject is the only thing he can talk about.

Posted by: Wendy | October 12, 2008 10:57 AM
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Dear America, Nothing should be off limits when it comes to exposing the truth of either candidate!
Barack Obama has ties with let us say "less than favorable" associates in his church and life and jobs. It is many of us opinion, that Mr. O, will not come clean and tell us EXACTLY what his plans for remaking Ameria into his own image, disregarding a mandate by the Amerian people to change Washington into a entity elected by the people and for the people. "Revelotion" was never mentioned on perhaps maybe it should be so that people know the cadidate they are voting for!I personally dispise any form of goverment that takes away the peoples right to be informed so they can vote unmistakingly for the candidate who they know and can trust to protect America at all cost, less Govt and jobs that are availabe to every American who qualifies. The candidate that doesn't dress up his ideas to simply get the peoples vote! A pig w/lipstick on does not change a pig, it simply will still remain a pig!

Posted by: Margaret Hood | October 12, 2008 10:56 AM
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Because no man or woman has any control over what his or her pastor thinks or says, on the pulpit or not.

People change, their opinions change, their attitude towards other people's behavior changes, their worldview changes.

It is my observation that Rev. Wright has changed since Mr. Obama started going to his church, and finally was too unpalatable for Obama.

It is beyond my understanding how the media and the electorate shun the idea that we all can and do change our minds about various issues, various facts. There is noting wrong with changing our minds, in fact it is a good thing, a human thing. It would be a terrible tragedy if we were not free and able to learn and grow in life.

I think that the ability to change our minds is something valuable and is commendable in people of power and influence.

I'll bet that John and Sarah have changed their minds about a lot of things; like abuse of power?

Posted by: David deSousa | October 12, 2008 10:44 AM
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Don't forget Palin's own questionable taste in pastors.

Posted by: Brigid1 | October 12, 2008 10:37 AM
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This is God's universe and whether you like it or not, the Dems are an endangered specie. These Dems are making the U.S a second Sodom. There are now 3 Democratic States that legalizes gay mariage and abortion.

Who knows Obama will make history as the last Democratic president America has known. Nobody messes with God.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 12, 2008 10:35 AM
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You forgot one:

Because Jeremiah Wright has been given an unfair black eye. He's not the boogey man the conservative right-wing and media have made him out to be. I've yet to see Mr. Wright's entire speech taken in context anywhere in the major media outlets -- as in showing all of it instead of a few sound bites.

Believe it or not, Ms. Palin, there are a lot of people that actually agree with many of the assertions Mr. Wright made in that speech. You see, we listened to *all* of it instead of just the sound bites. We're not "boogey-men", "terrorists", or "traitors" either.

It's not un-American to question your government and to call them out on the evils they have perpetrated or been a party to. This is how "Democracy" works. Might want to learn the meaning before trying to "spread" it.

Posted by: Chicagoan | October 12, 2008 10:24 AM
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Governor Palin is a bible-banging, snake-handling, end-of-times loony. In America it is okay for her to behave in this way, but she should not be allowed anywhere near DC.

She runs on a campaign of reform to clean-up government, but she's found to have abused her power in an ethics scandal; she's against wasteful spending, unless it's for her state, and then lies about her position; she touts her "executive experience" and then lets her husband set up a shadow office in the government to circumvent propoer personnel procedures and harrass people to get someone fired; she against birth control but thinks it great that her 17 y/o daughter is marrying a self-described "redneck."; she thinks shooting wovlves from planes is a perfectly acceptable sport.

Palin is a joke -- she belongs back in Alaska hunting moose.

Posted by: David | October 12, 2008 10:18 AM
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While I think the Obama team is probably wise for refraining from doing this, I wonder why her association with that wackjob AIP leader isn't examined more. The man hates America and wants to secede from the union. Her husband was a member of that group and she addressed some sort of convention with them quite recently.

Why won't the media get onto THAT story?

Posted by: Fran, Houston TX | October 12, 2008 10:17 AM
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I agree that people's religious associations are not as relevant to their political careers as, say, their plans to address the current economic crisis. As a Jewish woman from the South Side of Chicago, though, I find it naive and sad that so many white Americans are "shocked, shocked" that African American preaching involves some criticism of the United States. Palin's association with a witch-hunting, anti-Semitic pastor who asks God to take the "financial resources" out of the hands of "Israelites" is far more frightening to me, because it represents the darkest and most regressive forces in Christian history -- the forces that have historically victimized marginal women ("witches") and religious minorities.

Posted by: Mira | October 12, 2008 10:14 AM
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I'm a middle America white guy who is not offended by what Rev. Jeremiah Wright said in his now famous outburst - which it should be noted, was not a part of his sermon for the day. A small portion of the clip was run repeatedly in the media.

If the entire clip is watched, one finds Wright enumerating a long list of faults and abuses which in the end leads him to suggest that the U.S. should be damned instead of blessed.

As an American who is happy to have had all of the advantages our country affords its citizens, I am not one of those pseudo patriots who think any criticism is traitorous. Wright' points, in general, were well taken.

Posted by: Rudy Dalpra | October 12, 2008 10:10 AM
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I think your article is right on point. We have all been in a church where a member of the ministry says something we don't totally agree with or suscribe to. As the grandaughter of a retired United Methodist minister my teenage years were filled with legendary disagreements with my Grandpa. As an African-American United Methodist debutante daughter of the new South our ideology differences were constant & huge as I struggled to find my way, & continue to respect & please both my parents & grandparents. What a burden. But I revered both of my grandfathers, the minister & the deacon. But I found it uncomfortable that others considered my minister grandfather to be GOD like. A role he was obviously uncomfortable with as well. He always said he was constantly trying to be Christian but everyday people made it extremely difficult for him to be Christ like. He knew he was just a man. To hold Obama or anyone to the unrealistic responsibility of being the keeper of a pastor is unfair. What if my doctor beats his wife, my dry cleaner is a racist, my brother is a rapist & my sorority sister of 20 years cheats on her taxes? At the end of the day I am only responsible for me & what I do. My mere association does not make me guilty. In the instant situation what we're not talking about is that it has been recently reported that Rev. Wright isn't a hate monger or racist since it was discovered that he's had a long-term affair with the white wife of a black Dallas pastor. He is obviously a very human opportunist who struggles with his own demons. Rev. Wright isn't reflective of what any American wants their minister to be & surely the affair suggests he is a secret keeper not a spiritual advisor. My Grandfather was right, it's hard to be Christ like, particularly during an election year.

Posted by: Kimberly | October 12, 2008 10:01 AM
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I would like to know about the Alaska Secession group that Gov. Palin and her husband were members off, what was their philosophy, are they still in existance and why it seems as though the Media is shying away from that story.

Posted by: Michael | October 12, 2008 9:52 AM
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Because the people are not as far behind the curve as the Governor.

Posted by: Richard Duerksen | October 12, 2008 9:47 AM
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To paraphrase "It's *still* the economy stupid."

Now, more than ever. We simply don't have the luxury now of wasting time with media hyped nonsense. Both politicians have dubious past associations, behaviors and somewhat compromised voting records.

Relevance? None.

We need problems solved. Now. The economy, energy, global warming and ecological decay. These matter. The "social issues" which some feel are so important will simply have to wait.

Posted by: ian | October 12, 2008 9:42 AM
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Remember all four candidates have their weaknesses and strengths. It is naive to paint anyone as demigod and to demonize the other team.

Relax and be fair in assessments.

Let the best team win.

Compare policies, compare policies, compare policies and don't forget to VOTE!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 9:41 AM
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This is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever read. You are saying that a presidential candidate's religious beliefs should be off limits. The fact that Obama was an active member of Wright's church for 20 years and hired him as his spiritual advisor was appalling to most Americans once they saw and learned what beliefs Wright espoused. If those did not come to light and Obama hadn't distanced himself from Wright for political purposes, Wright would be potentially sitting in the Oval Office provide that type of advise and guidance to our President. That fact should be "off limits". Absurd!

Posted by: Max | October 12, 2008 9:39 AM
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Governor Palin should highlight the abortion issue and talk about it while she can. It needs to be spoken about.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 9:29 AM
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The Obama-Biden team is sure to win the election. So why should you supporters get this hysterical? Why can't you folks be calm without inventing lies about Gov Palin and her church?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 9:27 AM
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The Pentecostal Church is a mainstream Christian denomination with thousands of churches worldwide.

The Pentecostal Church is a mainstream Christian denomination with thousands of churches worldwide.

The Pentecostal Church is a mainstream Christian denomination with thousands of churches worldwide...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 9:23 AM
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CNN has covered that part of the speech in which Governor Palin talked of abortion.

And for Heaven's sake, this is a political election, a race for the most powerful political office, not a race for the saint of the world. The Vatican does that - declare people saints as it is doing today, 12 Oct 08 - and uses different criteria to assess sainthood.

So please don't repeat the nonsense, "Jesus was a community organizer and Pilate was a governor."

Let politicians be politicians and Jesus be Jesus and saints be saints. Senator Obama maybe a great politician, but comparing him to Jesus is really going over the top.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 9:21 AM
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Gov Palin also has her own strange relationship with her religious pastor. The video of her being exorcised against the evils of witchcraft is bizarre to say the least. What is it my dad said, "be careful pointing a finger at someone else because three more are pointed back at you," well Sarah you don't have the most normal religious beliefs. Are we suppose to ignore those? You also seem eager to talk about Bill Ayers but your husband has his own strange relationships with the people/party who wants Alaska to withdraw from the US. You even gave a videotaped speech to this independent parties convention, so be very careful about associations. People who live in glass houses.

Posted by: karenk | October 12, 2008 9:17 AM
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And don't forget Mccains associations with Phil Gramm. He was an advisor to Mccain and he invested in the "porn" industry. Mccains comment to Sean Hannity Fox Newslast Feb. 2007. That Mccain said he never much liked this country, until he was deprived of it's Freedom. These things should be brought up more in the campaign, because it's shows that Mccain himself showed very poor judgement. But yet all we hear is about Obama's past affilations. Well , I will not vote someone who at some point did not like his country and has paled around with investors of Porn. Mccain and Palin with her questionable associations should not be throwing stones.

Posted by: Joe Kovac | October 12, 2008 9:08 AM
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You neglected to mention Palin/McCain's own religious leader problems. Hagee, an early vocal supporter of McCain, is anti everything not fundamentalist is an embarrassment. Palin's U tube devil banishing ceremony present the worst of religious belief for them to defend.

Better leave it alone but in this self destructing candidacy who knows?

Posted by: Cycledoc | October 12, 2008 8:59 AM
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How glaring an omission! McCains pick of Palin makes attacks on Wright impossible.

Does John McCain want Sarah's religious associations further scrutinized? For all the fervored rhetoric of Wright, Sarah's witch exorcism on youtube would trump it.

Also, Sarah is married to a man who belongs to a group that wants to seceed from the union (treason). Further investigation of their literature and Sarah's presence at their rallies would make Wright's anger at america look like kid's stuff in comparison.

But your conclusion is right on. McCain's judgement in picking Palin, his erratic campaign themes, his rash response to the financial crisis is why Mccain is not seen as presidential material. It is not for want of a good attack on Obama.

Posted by: Corky | October 12, 2008 8:58 AM
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I find it highly ironic to read the posts here - so fearful and extremely critical of Barack Obama and his "ties that bind" to Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers. After all, who was the person who turned from the wealthy establishment to reach out to the poor, the sick, the afflicted, the disenfranchised from society? Who was the person the mob despised by the conservatives of his time for his message of hope and peace and brotherhood? Who was executed in a state-sanctioned manner after being declared a menace to society - both political and religious norms of the day - because he advocated a different way of life, a different way of living? Who advocated for peace among men, and died for them? Who looked beyond skin color, gender, profession, and saw only the humanity of each of us? I am both amused and perplexed by the numerous interpretations of Christianity - and bemused by the affect this religion has had on the American voter. God has become the Big Box God - God has become the All-American God - God has become less than God. Didn't Jesus say "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's"? Did Jesus really die on the cross for the Prosperity Gospel? Did Jesus really die on the cross because God Loves America the best of all nations? Did Jesus really die on the cross so that we could turn our plowshares into swords and wage war forevermore? And did Jesus die on the cross to, as one preacher recently stated in a (to me)strange invocation, to protect God's reputation?
I don't know who will win this election - but I know who already lost. Jesus.

Posted by: Bev | October 12, 2008 8:45 AM
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wmboyd wrote:
When (not if) McCain loses by double-digits, he can look back on his Palin decision as the date and the reason. You betcha bygolly fersur. Palin with an assault rifle, sixpack and helicopter is far more dangerous than Cheney in the backseat with a beer and a loaded shotgun.

And Sarah with a Bible is far more dangerous than North Korea with nuclear weapons. North Korea has shown some restraint.

Posted by: Job | October 12, 2008 8:44 AM
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Governor Palin speaks on Culture of Life, a topic she well can speak with the greatest authenticity.

Children with Down's Syndrome have a good quality of life when they are loved and cared for. They live in their world and do not compare themselves with others. So if people do not abuse and hurt them, they live happy lives, achieving what they are capable of.

Governor Palin can be a role model in this regard, in the way she loves her son Trig and helps him to live a happy life.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/11/campaign.wrap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 8:42 AM
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All legitimate reasons for not bringing this issue up, but you ignore what is the most legitimate: No one has ever shown that Reverend Wright has spoken from the pulpit on a regular basis in the way that those 2 or 3 "YouTube" videos show. That is to say, every one says "Oh, Barack Obama listened to that stuff for 20 years, and did not walk out!" Oh really? How does anyone know that? I've not seen any documentation, written or otherwise that indicates that Reverend Wright's church was some kind of weekly hate fest. Yet, the leap is constantly made: If two minutes of "YouTube" footage shows the Reverend making these kinds of statments, then that must be what the church is all about. Contrast that with Pastor Haggee's all too easily documented strange end times theolgy. It is the basest form of conjecture, and has never been proven.

Posted by: John D in Houston | October 12, 2008 8:27 AM
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Yes they should bring it up, I'm so tired of everyone trying to save Obama, don't say this don;t say that. Get over it. He isn;t ready for President. Why is every one afarid to talk .My they are sending out the big guns this week. Clintons, and I was a supporter of both at one time, but they all just hug and pat each others back; instead of what is right. Hillary should have been the one for change. Maybe not, she and Bill just suck up now with the man who should not be President.

Posted by: nancy | October 12, 2008 7:51 AM
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"The last two Democratic presidents, Carter and Clinton, were the only two good presidents we have had in over thirty years."

LOL! The insufferably sanctimonious Carter was without question the WORST president in U.S. history. Clinton, a vulgar rube, shamefully disgraced our highest office, and would have wrought even more damage were he not held in check by a Congress of the opposite party.

Posted by: j.a.m. | October 12, 2008 7:22 AM
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To Felix -

So you won't vote Democratic for any reason? Pray tell, why?

The last two Democratic presidents, Carter and Clinton, were the only two good presidents we have had in over thirty years. Carter's achievents: the Camp David Accords, respect for human rights all over the world, breaking the back of OPEC, and starting this country back on the road to recovery by appointing Paul Volker the head of the Federal Reserve. Clinton presided over one of the most peaceful and prospers eras in US history as well as promoting tolerance. What did Republican presidents give us? They say Reagan ended the cold war, well he didn't. Gorbachov did. Besides, Reagan started the end of regulations which ended in this financial mess we are now in and Regan made it perfectly acceptable to treat the poor like garbage, broke the back of the unions, which resulted in the miserable state of the Middle Class. How about Bush 2? Well he supports torture, got us into an immoral and unnecessary war, gutted all regulatory agencies, well need I go on? Both of these men ran up the deficit to historical levels. Clinton balanced the budget and created a surplus.

So you won't vote Democratic. What a stupid mindless thing to say, totally negating your enlightened words about Palin.

And Obama as president will be bad. Why? Just stating something does not make it true. You need to back it up with something.

Yet another stupid and mindless statement to make.

In my mind people who make stupid and mindless statements such as the ones you made are themselves stupid and mindless. Sounds like you, doen't it, Felix?

Posted by: Mark in NY | October 12, 2008 6:43 AM
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You forgot to mention Sarah's own witch doctor who cast the spell right out of her in her own church. Also the mere fact that the AIP are the most fundemental extremeist in the country of which her husband was a member... We need leadership to steer us out of this ponzi scheme that has been building since Reagan...Thanks

Posted by: Brian Taylor | October 12, 2008 6:30 AM
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A Wasted Vote
by Rep. Chuck Baldwin
October 10, 2008

When asked why they will not vote for a third party candidate, many people will respond by saying something like, "He cannot win." Or, "I don't want to waste my vote." It is true: America has not elected a third party candidate since 1860. Does that automatically mean, however, that every vote cast for one of the two major party candidates is not a wasted vote? I don't think so.

In the first place, a wasted vote is a vote for someone you know does not represent your own beliefs and principles. A wasted vote is a vote for someone you know will not lead the country in the way it should go. A wasted vote is a vote for the "lesser of two evils." Or, in the case of John McCain and Barack Obama, what we have is a choice between the "evil of two lessers."

Albert Einstein is credited with saying that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. For years now, Republicans and Democrats have been leading the country in the same basic direction: toward bigger and bigger government; more and more socialism, globalism, corporatism, and foreign interventionism; and the dismantling of constitutional liberties. Yet, voters continue to think that they are voting for "change" when they vote for a Republican or Democrat. This is truly insane!

Take a look at the recent $850+ billion Wall Street bailout: both John McCain and Barack Obama endorsed and lobbied for it. Both McCain and Obama will continue to bail out these international banksters on the backs of the American taxpayers. Both McCain and Obama support giving illegal aliens amnesty and a path to citizenship. In the debate this past Tuesday night, both McCain and Obama expressed support for sending U.S. forces around the world for "peacekeeping" purposes. They also expressed support for sending combat forces against foreign countries even if those countries do not pose a threat to the United States. Neither Obama nor McCain will do anything to stem the tide of a burgeoning police state or a mushrooming New World Order. Both Obama and McCain support NAFTA and similar "free trade" deals. Neither candidate will do anything to rid America of the Federal Reserve, or work to eliminate the personal income tax, or disband the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Both Obama and McCain support the United Nations. So, pray tell, how is a vote for either McCain or Obama not a wasted vote?

But, back to the "he cannot win" argument: to vote for John McCain is to vote for a man who cannot win. Yes, I am saying it here and now: John McCain cannot win this election. The handwriting is on the wall. The Fat Lady is singing. It is all over. Finished. John McCain cannot win.

With only three weeks before the election, Barack Obama is pulling away. McCain has already pulled his campaign out of Michigan. In other key battleground states, McCain is slipping fast. He was ahead in Missouri; now it is a toss-up or leaning to Obama. A couple of weeks ago, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida were all leaning towards McCain, or at least toss-up states. Now, they are all leaning to Obama. Even the longtime GOP bellwether state of Indiana is moving toward Obama. In addition, new voter registrations are at an all-time high, and few of them are registering as Republicans. In fact, the Republican Party now claims only around 25% of the electorate, and Independents are increasingly leaning toward Obama.

Ladies and gentlemen, Barack Obama is headed for an electoral landslide victory over John McCain. John McCain can no more beat Barack Obama than Bob Dole could beat Bill Clinton.

I ask, therefore, Are not conservatives and Christians who vote for John McCain guilty of the same thing that they accuse people who vote for third party candidates of doing? Are they not voting for someone who cannot win? Indeed, they are. In fact, conservatives and Christians who vote for John McCain are not only voting for a man who cannot win, they are voting for a man who does not share their own beliefs and principles. If this is not insanity, nothing is!

So, why not (for once in your life, perhaps) cast a vote purely for principle! Vote for someone who is truly pro-life. Someone who would quickly secure our nation's borders, and end the invasion of our country by illegal aliens. Someone who would, on his first day in office, release Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean and fire U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton. Someone who would immediately, upon assuming office, begin leading the charge to dismantle the Federal Reserve, overturn the 16th Amendment, expunge the IRS, and return America to sound money principles. Someone who would get the US out of the UN. Someone who would stop spending billions and trillions of dollars for foreign aid. Someone who would prosecute the Wall Street bankers who defrauded the American people out of billions of dollars. Someone who would work to repeal NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, the WTO, and stop the NAFTA superhighway. Someone who would say a resounding "No" to the New World Order. Someone who would stop using our brave men and women in uniform as global cops for the United Nations. Someone who would stop America's global adventurism and interventionism. Someone who would steadfastly support and defend the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

"Who is this person?" you ask. Go here to find out:

http://www.baldwin08.com/

As John Quincy Adams said, "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."

Posted by: Concerned U.S. Citizen | October 12, 2008 6:02 AM
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Palin/McCain campaign sounds very familar hmm, ah I rember:

" When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out. "

Martin Niemoller

Posted by: Dennis Hughes | October 12, 2008 5:54 AM
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Sarah Palin is a ditz - unfortunately, in this, our culture, that makes her a celebrity, I guess. Win or lose - hopefully, lose - she's gotten more than her 15 minutes of fame.

God forbid she is allowed anywhere near the real levers of power - both she and her husband are way too vindictive for my tastes. Read a bit about the vendetta they waged for years - and, by all accounts still are waging - against her former brother-in-law.

This is a very scary character.

Posted by: Dan Deren | October 12, 2008 5:18 AM
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The problem is that Reverend Wright is a marine, a patriot who saved the life of Lyndon Johnson and everything he "ranted" about was a direct quote from Ambassador Peak on right wing TV just after September 11, 2001 - and the ambassador was spot on.

100% correct.

While Hagee and his crowd are completely vile and off the wall.

Posted by: Marilyn | October 12, 2008 5:12 AM
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Read Naom Chomsky. He is every bit an American and takes the liberty to criticize some of the stuff the US does. It is called freedom of speech.

Rev Wright was preaching to a closed door Church congregation - his take on political events. He did not lead marches or lynch mobs against whites or picket government offices. So don't get hysterical.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 5:07 AM
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The idea that Reverend Wright is any more or less radical than white protestant preachers is patently false. I fail to see any difference between the criticisms of Wright and those of Hagee (regarding Katrina), Falwell (blaming the US for 9/11) and similar accusations from conservative evangelical pastors.

What is different is race. And while I would stop short of calling it racism there does seem to be a cultural divide and difference in the status quo.

Posted by: Rick W | October 12, 2008 4:34 AM
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Why not write an article about how wrong she and Biden were to bow to Israel during the debate. That was a total act of treason?

Wright was right. America sold itself out to racist Zionism knowing full well it would cause attacks against itself. Our chickens came home to roost.
You Israel-lovers always hate historically accurate statements about what a disaster your racist ideology is.

Posted by: Tor Ouellette - www.powmadeak47.com | October 12, 2008 3:59 AM
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Why not write an article about how wrong she and Biden were to bow to Israel during the debate. That was a total act of treason?

Wright was right. America sold itself out to racist Zionism knowing full well it would cause attacks against itself. Our chickens came home to roost.
You Israel-lovers always hate historically accurate statements about what a disaster your racist ideology is.

Posted by: Tor | October 12, 2008 3:58 AM
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Rev Wright is a Marine corps hero.

He fought for and earned the right to the pulpit he occupies.

In what branch of the military did mr berlinerblau served?

Rev Wright deals with death and disease and poverty and crime,and human misery on a daily basis.

Mr berlinerblau goes to a nice office at georgetown and spends his time in polite discussions with students, and earns a very nice living at that and with extras like this blog.

What has mr berlinerblau accomplished to allow him to criticize rev wright?

The nice,comfortable, middle class world of mr berlinerblau is far away from the world of the inner cities.

if I were a black person, I might very well say god damn america as well to my parishoners ravaged by poverty, unemployment, crime, disease,police harassment, and seeing parishoners convicted of rape and murder, framed by the system,and years later released by advances in science.

I think a few goddamn america's is warranted now and again under those circumstances.

Posted by: thopaine | October 12, 2008 3:45 AM
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The McCain-Palin campaign looks really desperate and a bit unhinged. The Jeremiah Wright story is very tenuous, Senator Obama wasn't even in the pew for those comments. Gov. Palin sat through anti-semetic statements in her church and was involved with a strange witch-hunter from Kenya who is on video praying over the Governor oi protect her from witchcraft. She is also on video claiming that this witch-hunter made her Governor, it's quite bizzare. If Obama has a "Pastor Problem" Palin has a "Witch Hunter Problem".

Posted by: Jack M Ryan | October 12, 2008 3:14 AM
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sorry, I had to edit due to atrocious spelling and grammar errors:

Hal your silly comment about Socialism shows again how ignorant we as Americans are about politics and even what words mean.

Obama is as far away from Socialist ideas as anybody else. The so-called "right" branding anybody that doesn't support anarchic free enterprise, which is the tool of the super greedy, a socialist works because:

1) you do not know what socialism is, and;

2) you do not see that democratic socialist parties in most of Europe (our allies!) are leading their societies toward safer and more egalitarian futures.

You allow yourself to be bamboozled by phrases spewed out to make you fearful and unwittingly, your repetition of these phrases spreads this fear even more.

We must begin to look at our European allies to see how they have applied certain ideas that make us, the once leading nation in the world look like old fuddy-duddies unable to keep up. And yes, some of those ideas are socialist in origin applied in democratic context.

Blaming people (erroneously) as socialists because they want to better the plight of the working class and poor will never, ever better the lives of Americans other than the upper middle class and wealthy.

Stop doing their bidding and look at the world outside our cocoon. You can, and should. Doing so might wake you up and spur you on to make a real American dream come true again, for all, and not just a few.

Posted by: Ronn | October 12, 2008 3:11 AM
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Investigation into Sarah Palin's pastor associations would likely bring to the surface unsavory connections also. Sarah Palin quit the Assembly of God church around the time she started being groomed for governorship. I had the singular misfortune of working part time in an Alaskan village split to the bone by controversy over its A of G church- members of the church were burning tribal regalia and family heirlooms associated with Tlingit culture because these things were supposedly "of the devil." Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident in an isolated congregation- similar things seem to happen in A of G churches in many parts of Alaska. One can only hope Sarah Palin has not abetted such acts in her congregation.

Posted by: liesel lituya | October 12, 2008 3:07 AM
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Hal your silly comment about Socialism show again how ignorant we as Americans are about politics and even what words mean.

Obama as far away from Socialist ideas as anybody else. The so-called "right" branding anybody that doesn't support anarchic free enterprise, which is the tool of the super greedy, a socialist works because:

1) you do not know what socialism, and;

2) you do not see that sc democratic socialist parties in most of Europe (out allies!) are leading their societies safer and more equal futures.

You allow yourself to be bamboozled by phrases spewed out to make you fearful and unwittingly, your repetition of these phrases spreads this fear even more.

We must begin to look at our European allies to see how they have applied certain ideas that make us, the once leading nation in the world look like old fuddy-duddies unable to keep up.

Blaming people (erroneously) as socialists because they want to better the plight of the working class and poor will never, ever better the lives of Americans other than the upper middle class and wealthy.

Stop doing their bidding and look at the world outside your cocoon. You can, and should. Doing so might wake yu up and spur you on to make a real American dream come true again, for all, and not just a few.

Posted by: Ronn | October 12, 2008 3:05 AM
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Doesn't it matter what our president thinks or believes in? Couldn't those thoughts and beliefs affect how he deals with the economy? I believe Obama's past indicates a person that has a strong belief in socialism and an undercurrent of hatred toward America. I just hope our Constitution can withstand the unchecked onslaught of the Obama, Pelosi, Reed troika if Obama is elected.

Posted by: Hal | October 12, 2008 2:53 AM
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I don't get it. Is the fact by asking the question not bringing it up? This is typical sly manipulation of people's thoughts and feelings.

Can S. Palin really now say she didn't bring it up, just asked why it wasn't being brought up?

Amazing how this sort of thing just gets by not only the normal people listening but journalists, too.

Or does it?

Posted by: Ronn | October 12, 2008 2:23 AM
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A modest proposal:

Why don't you guys and girls getting all emotionally worked up, just RELAX? It is only an election cycle, stupid. It comes around every four years. If you kill yourself over this one then there will be no more of you left to go crazy about the next election cycle.

And instead of wasting time comparing pastors and church teachings, and looking for excuses to throw mud, why not compare policies and how it affects you and the vast majority of the US population?

Sit down and make a list of the important policies and make a comparison. Keep doing that until election day as candidates come up with revised versions of their policies and then VOTE!!!

If in doubt, toss a coin and take a pick of the candidate.

Not at all difficult, is it?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 1:52 AM
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Since a Palin rally has already occurred during which one of her rabble, referring to Obama, screamed out "Kill him!" -- which provoked no censure from the great white hunter, just one of Palin's trademark smirks -- I'm willing to bet that, before election day, the McPain Campaign WILL produce one or more uses of the "N" word, I would guess most likely from Palin herself (though I have no illusions that McCain is above such thoughts himself; and in his increasing enfeeblement, fear, and desperation, stupid thoughts turn into stupid, publicly-uttered words all too easily).

It used to be a comforting thought that "Americans get the President they deserve." Not THIS time around -- McPain uses the fear and mindlessness of the mob just like many former players on the national stage: Herbert Hoover, Father Coughlin (look it up), Charles Lindbergh, Strom Thurmond, Tailgunner Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, and -- most recently and pertinently -- George WMD Bush.

Joe SixPack, so wrapped up in his own egocentric pursuits (Oh my God, "Dancing With The Stars" is on tonight!) that he's willing to let political pundits with axes to grind and soap to sell do his thinking for him, just parrots Rush or Glenn Beck, or Kristol, O'Reilly, Krauthammer, Tucker Carlson, or any other mind-numbing number of low-functioning demagogues, and thinks he's done his duty to "Country First!"

How about PEOPLE first? White people, black people, brown people, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, Hindus, Christians of every un-Christian-like warring faction.We are all in the same frighteningly mortal boat. We're all X number of paychecks or medical emergencies from homelessness and ruin.

Is this the time to accept -- as Palin does -- that "kill him" is an acceptable part of a party's political message? If that time has come, then America is not the place the founders envisioned, not the place that countless public-spirited men, women, and children have fought to bring into being. That's MY America. It is obviously NOT the America of John McCain and Sarah Palin, and their self-absorbed mob. Their motto isn't "America First!", not by a long shot, Their motto is "ME First!"

If Palin has her kevlar knickers in a twist because Reverend Wright hasn't been publically crucified in the Wasilla town square, maybe she should first consider removing the beam in her own eye by publicly repudiating those in her mob who call for assassinating Barack Obama. Oh, by the way, Sarah -- a chuckle and one of your patented gosh-darn-cute winks at such exhortations from your rabble calling for political murder does NOT quite count as a rebuke.

So, Joe SixPack, tear yourself away from the TV for a moment and ask yourself: Is the "ME First!" America the America we want, for ourselves, and for our children, and grandchildren? The answer will be revealed in one month.

Bart Brown
Clinton, CT

Posted by: which America | October 12, 2008 1:50 AM
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Jacques,
I can't see how Palin can bring up Obama's association with shady religious characters. The whole country has been treated to clips of her being protected from witchcraft at her church... As a Roman Catholic, sometimes I have to stretch my views to support some of the most extreme forms of Protestantism, but I try to overlook some of their faults by thinking about their good intentions even if their methods do not appeal to me. Palin has gone too far and that's why I'll be sitting this election (I'm not voting Democrat for ANY reason).
Maybe it's now God's will that we'll have a President Obama. I know it will be bad, but if we can rebuild the Republican Party around the moderates and its original core values we stand a chance in 2012. Otherwise this will be the end of America as we know it and John McCain, having yielded to the most extreme fringes of the party by choosing Gov. Palin as his running mate, will be in part reponsible for it.

Posted by: Felix | October 12, 2008 1:42 AM
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If Spiderman2 can work a key board it's puzzling why John McCain can't.

Anyway, he's truly idiotic. The meltdown of the economy is not centered in New York. Wall Street is in New York but the meltdown is on your main street.

Please don't bother to share your Bible quotes. Most of us can run rings around when it comes to reading the Bible.

Poor dear Spidey. He lives in a fantasy world, as his name shows.

Posted by: Adrasteia | October 12, 2008 1:33 AM
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Oh well, maybe some of the vitriol coming from the McCain/Palin campaign will stop now that the latest Palin scandal is about to take center stage: the who-really-built-your-new-house-gate. Seems that it might have been been the same people--at the same time--that Palin awarded with a multi-million dollar sports complex contract The contractor(s) possibly didn't charge Palin according to a newspaper and several blogs including one major one in Alaska; one--Spenard-- allegedly did work on Sen. Stevens house; and, on Palin's house, Palin (as mayor) allegedly prevented the town from requiring a building permit.

"You betcha" there are some diligent Alaska bloggers out there doing the vetting for the McCain campaign.

Posted by: New Boston Yankee | October 12, 2008 1:28 AM
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About the only thing wrong with Wright is his belief in the jew/christian gods. The same is true of Obama, for that matter. They have embraced the white man's bogus gods, cruel system of theology and faux religions that set "saved" classes of people above the rest and cater to their needs at the expense of all others. Wright's inconsistency is not in his rhetoric of frustration, it is in the coupling he places between it and his jew/christian values. It would be far better for him to drop the latter and focus on human needs. He needs to abandon the worship and reverence for fictitious, mystical supernatural beings that only validate white oppression and focus on correcting the state of inequality that continues to plague our society. As for the problems of Joe and Jane Sixpack, those could be solved with guns turned against them.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 1:24 AM
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Spiderman2,

A couple of important things for you to contemplate . . .

Before removing the speck from your neighbor's eye take care to remove the plank from your own.

Judge not, lest ye be judged!

Posted by: John | October 12, 2008 1:22 AM
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You left out another reason: Because there is video of Palin WITH more than one crazy preacher. Where she's being protected from witchcraft by Thomas Muthee, who also prays for Christians take back banking and business from the "Israelites," or the despicable "Jews for Jesus" preacher, or the church camp video of teenagers screaming and fainting after apparently contacting Jesus through their cell phones.

Posted by: bbbfst | October 12, 2008 1:17 AM
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Continuing on the topic of reducing abortions:

Speeding up the process of background checks for those who wish to adopt and making adoption easier and quicker is one way to give the women a better option than killing their unborn children.

And to those who claim it is painful to give up a child for adoption: Is killing the unborn child, giving it no chance at life and being loved by others, easier and more justifiable?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 1:03 AM
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mharwick wrote:
RACE is what Obama's Rev. Wright is all about. Louis Farrakhan, the man Obama's church praised with an award is all about race. Obama has been a member of a racist bigoted anti-American church for 20 years. His children were baptised by and his marriage performed by a racist, bigot (hater of Jews and Israel) anti-American and Obama knew it from the start. Then there is Rev. Pfleger the supporter of both Wright and Farrakhan and of course Obama. Obama was in bed with a slumlord now convicted of 16 felony counts. He served with Ayers closely and Ayers the unrepentant terrorist and Obama are closely connected with brainwashing children with CAC funds and Acorn, the organization that supports Obama that his campaign gave almost 900K and whose members are being indicted for voter registration fraud and this list of Obamanations just rolls on and on and the American people must hold the media responsible for suppression of these facts which prove Obama unfit to serve. He never put on a uniform, ran a city or a state and has been teflon through it all. We are in a world of trouble if in this economy and in our war against terror we elect the enemy within Barak Obama. God help America.

Posted by: OBAMAREZKOAYERS | October 12, 2008 12:57 AM
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Doesn't Palin have a rather bizarre pastor in her life at present and for some years who has incited violence against a "witch?" Has he recanted his belief or repented of his crime against tshat poor woman? What is it about people in glass houses? Do they think that throwing stones will keep stone throwers away from their fragile hiding places (in plain view)?

Posted by: Alex Mac Donald | October 12, 2008 12:14 AM
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PS: The partisan comment between my posts on abortion is by another Anonymous.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 12:05 AM
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As long as abortion clinics, with vested business interest in keeping rates of abortion high, continue to fight for abortion as a right with the active support of men and women, and laws supports abortion as a right, the rates of abortion will never reach a level that is fair to the human rights of unborn children. Countries with stricter abortion laws do show markedly lower rates of abortion. Keeping abortion as a non-criminal, non-punishable offense when certain criteria is met, protects women from dying in back alley botched abortions by quacks.

When more and more medical doctors exercise the conscience clause in accordance with the Hippocrates Oath, it is sure to add one more impediment to abortion of convenience.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 12, 2008 12:03 AM
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Distribute millions of copies of anti-Islamic DVDs and activate your propaganda machinery to falsely claim that Obama is a muslim.

What explains the electoral success of Republicans, particularly of the ascendant neoconservatives who now dominate the Party? Based on a thorough and up-to-date examination of the New Right over twenty-five years, The Politics of Fear proposes some provocative answers, including globalization, new technologies, and a far-reaching network of right-wing think tanks and foundations. As the authors show, all have opened the doors to a new politics of fear successfully waged by the neoconservatives

http://www.paradigmpublishers.com/books/BookDetail.aspx?productID=131225

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 11:56 PM
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RISEJUGGER:

Ireland and Poland also have socialized medicine, strong social welfare safety nets, and do not encourage their businesses to throw their fellow citizens out of work and ship jobs overseas!

That means even poor parents in these countries don't have to worry about their newborns starving, receiving necessary health care, or weather they're going to have a job tomorrow.

If the "christian right" (lower case because they are not) cared a fraction as much about children who are born, as they profess to care about children still in the womb, I suspect the abortion rate in the US would be much lower than it is. Isn't it the same Republican party who railed against "welfare mothers" having babies!?

On another note, my wife is a Labor/delivery nurse and I can assure you it is not the poor and minorities who are getting abortions; it is the career women who get knocked up and decide having a child would interfere with their climb up the corporate ladder...I suspect many of these women are Republicans!

If these people really cared about reducing abortions, common sense would dictate educating teens about contraception and making it available without parental consent needed; how many of us, when we were teens, informed our parents that we were going to make out, engage in heavy petting, etc, when we were teens!? To think "abstinence only" sex education is going to reduce unwanted pregnancy is insane!

October 11, 2008 2:12 PM

________________________________________

RiseJugger, setting aside your partisan slant on your comment, let me just address abortion as an issue.

1. There is absolutely no doubt that there is no merit in denying youngsters as comprehensive a sex education as possible, including details of basic human embryology for a lay person, and the seriousness of taking responsibility for their sex life without sacrificing the life of an innocent third party, the child, for any mistake. Availability of contraceptives also makes perfect sense, since the alternative to abstinence should not be STD, unwanted pregnancy leading to abortion as a "right," although contraceptives are known to fail at least 16% of the time. Considering sex without contraceptives is sure to fail almost 100% of the time, use of contraceptives should not be considered a bad compromise. "Abstinence only" is not a very practical method to reduce pregnancies, but abstinence as one of the options to avoid teen pregnancies/early twenties pregnancies out of wedlock or committed relationship, where the father is sure to disappear from the scene, is not an insane idea at all. The abstinence element in any sex education program emphasizes the possible serious consequences of sex outside a committed relationship, in which the man who fathers a child does the disappearing act with expertise. A woman should know her fate could well be that of single motherhood and all that goes with it.

2. It is not fair to compare caring for the child after it is born with objecting to abortion, which is killing an unborn child. Does objecting to infanticide or homicide necessarily entail taking responsibility for the personal reasons/justification/rationalization anyone may have had to murder? Does objection to violation of human rights, the attempt to stop wrong doing, come with the responsibility to take over what is the legitimate responsibility of the person? For instance, does an attempt to stop genocide in any of the African countries automatically mean that anyone who objects have the responsibility to take care of all the people who would otherwise be killed? Sure some help is offered to the *victims* but the outcry is always against the perpetrators of the crime. Nobody can say, if you don't help me look after the person I intend to kill because of inconvenience, you have no right to stop me. Crazy logic. But such a logic is used all the time when it comes to abortion.

3. Throughout human history parents have had the responsibility to take care of the children they bring to the world of their own free will and their action alone. Government help for struggling families is a very recent development. Parents in the poorest countries in the world don't get any help from the government at all. It is something of an irony that it is only in the rich countries mothers say they have no choice but to kill their children if the government doesn't help. That is not to say government help in rich countries should not help. Government help is a wonderful thing, but one's responsibility towards one's own child should not be dependent entirely on it, and killing of one's own child should not be on the option list at all, leave alone on the list of rights.

4. As you rightly noted from the reliable information you have from your midwife/delivery nurse wife, and confirmed by studies conducted, the real reason for abortion in NINETY EIGHT PER CENT OF CASES IS CONVENIENCE. The mother can afford the child but it is just inconvenient. Since law gives her the right to abort for her convenience, without taking the life of the unborn child into consideration, why should she consider any other option or think of the consequences on a completely innocent, defenseless human being her action helped create?

5. Comparison of abortion statistics (%)from the data provided by Wm Robert Johnston:

Canada 2005 22.1

*Denmark 2005 19.3

*Finland 2006 15.3

*France 2005 21.0

*Germany 2006 15.1

Greece 2003 13.1

______________________________

Greenland 2005 50.3 ????????

______________________________

*Ireland 2006 7.3

*Israel 2006 11.8

Italy 2004 19.6

Japan 2005 21.4

Malta 2006 1.4

** Mexico 2005 0.07

Netherlands 2006 13.3

*Norway 2006 19.5

**Poland 2006 0.09

**Portugal 2005 0.8

Spain 2005 16.1

*Sweden 2007 25.4

Switzerland 2005 12.9

*United Kingdom 2006 21.8

United States 2005 22.6

______________________________________________

It would be necessary to compare abortion laws, social benefits and abortion rates of first world countries to know the real impact of social benefits alone in reducing abortions. The statistics from Sweden doesn't seem to support the theory and general assumption that social benefits alone reduces abortion. The countries with stringent laws do seem to have lower rates. Social benefits do play a role, but only one of many factors in the rate of abortion.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 11:44 PM
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Victoria,

Certain words will definitely cause a post to be blocked. I have run into this on occasion. Usually they are words not considered 'politically correct'.

Posted by: Arminius | October 11, 2008 10:55 PM
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There's no lcak of quotes and evdience when it comes to Hagee- I tried to post some stuff on his views abd awards from Israel, and his pretty horrible hate-speech towards catholics-
but it was all held- o well- it is very easy to fnd stuff on Hagee- he talks so much-

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 10:53 PM
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RISEJUGGER:

To comment on your post, please view the statistics I would be referring to:

Percentage of Pregnancies Aborted by Country
(countries listed by name)

compiled by William (Wm) Robert Johnston
last updated 4 June 2008

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/wrjp333pd2.html

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 10:45 PM
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It is no accident- there must be some block on certain words-

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 10:45 PM
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This post has been refused 5 times-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee

I have no idea was this post was held- I had to repost it-

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 10:43 PM
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The Rev. John Hagee, a nationally known pastor from San Antonio, Texas, told a gathering at Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg on Sunday night that America must win the war against terrorists who embrace radical Islam.

“Right now America is at a crossroads,” said Hagee, who heads Christians United For Israel. “The Third World War has begun.”

Hagee said America’s current enemy has no fear of death and is motivated by a desire for world domination at any cost.

“Ladies and gentlemen, America is at war with radical Islam,” Hagee said. “Jihad has come to America. If we lose the war to Islamic fascism, it will change the world as we know it.”

Hagee said the battle lines are not always clear.

“People say ‘When is the army coming.’ The army is not coming. It’s here,” he said. “They are waiting to respond as terrorist cells against this nation. It is a war between the culture of death and the culture of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is a war that we must win, period.”

Hagee, who has a television ministry that originates from Cornerstone Church, said there is no way to appease this adversary.

Radical sects, which include about 200 million Islamics, believe they have a command from God to kills Christians and Jews, he said.

“Our crisis is that half of America doesn’t know the war has started,” Hagee said. “This is a religious war.”

He said it is a battle brought on by deep seeded cultural differences.

“They hate us because we are free,” Hagee said. “They hate us because it is their religious duty to hate us. They are trained from the breast of their mother to hate us. Radical Islam is a doctrine of death. It is their desire, it is their hope, it is their ambition, it is their highest honor to die in a war against infidels. And you

are ‘infidels’ and there is nothing you can do to accommodate them. That’s what makes them so dangerous.”

Hagee said the recent plot in England to blow up airliners shows how motivated radical Islamics are to kill those they consider “infidels.” Recent news reports said two of the 24 suspects were going to use their children’s baby bottles to hold explosive liquids.

“They were going to use the child’s baby bottle as a liquid bomb to destroy themselves, their children and everyone on the plane,” he said. “It was going to be mass murder on a scale of monumental proportions. It was an act of war. They are ruthless, single-minded and totally committed.”

Hagee said the United States, England, France and other free nations are all targets for Islamic extremists.

“They have not moved to France to become French,” he said. “They came to France to get France to submit to Islam.”

Hagee said the “serpent’s head” of radical Islam is Iran, which has been gleaning support from both Russia and China.

“Russia is all over the Middle East in an antagonistic position against the United States,” Hagee said. “Our president and our government needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Mr. (Vladamir) Putin is not for us, he’s against us.”

Hagee said Iran’s nuclear ambitions present a significant danger to the world.

Hagee said Iran was behind the recent war between Hezbollah and Israel.

“They gave Syria 14,000 missiles and $100 million,” he said. “Those missiles were given to Hezbollah.”

Hagee said Iran started the war to shift world focus away from its nuclear program.

“What’s happening with Hezbollah is nothing more than Iran’s long arm reaching out in the Middle East,” he said. “What is happening in Iraq is nothing more than Iran’s long arm reaching out and sticking a finger in the eye of the United States of America. If freedom wins in Iraq, radical Islam is finished. I’m proud of our troops in Iraq.”

Hagee said he doubts the current cease-fire in Lebanon will hold.

“In a matter of weeks or months, the war will start again,” he said.

“We as a nation are at war with a determined enemy. It is time for America to realize that we must win this war at all costs.”

Hagee said Iran has the resources and the desire to purchase nuclear weapons.

“Iran is swimming in oil money that came from your gas tank,” he said.

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 10:38 PM
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Risejugger:

"In predominantly Catholic countries like Ireland and Poland where the laws are even more stringent, the rate of abortion is extremely low. Even though many women go abroad to get legal abortions anyway the numbers are nowhere near which would be the number of abortions if the laws were lax. Nobody reads of thousands of Irish and Polish women dying due to abortion in back alleys by quacks."
_________________________________________________

Ireland and Poland also have socialized medicine, strong social welfare safety nets, and do not encourage their businesses to throw their fellow citizens out of work and ship jobs overseas!

That means even poor parents in these countries don't have to worry about their newborns starving, receiving necessary health care, or weather they're going to have a job tommorrow.

If the "christian right" (lower case because they are not) cared a fraction as much about children who are born, as they profess to care about children still in the womb, I suspect the abortion rate in the US would be much lower than it is. Isn't it the same Republican party who railed against "welfare mothers" having babies!?

On another note, my wife is a Labor/delivery nurse and I can assure you it is not the poor and minorities who are getting abortions; it is the career women who get knocked up and decide having a child would interfere with their climb up the corporate ladder...I suspect many of these women are Republicans!

If these people really cared about reducing abortions, common sense would dictate educating teens about contraception and making it available without parental consent needed; how many of us, when we were teens, informed our parents that we were going to make out, engage in heavy petting, etc, when we were teens!? To think "abstinence only" sex education is going to reduce unwanted pregnancy is insane!

October 11, 2008 2:12 PM

====================================================

RISEJUGGER:

By way of clarification I do not express my views against abortion on a party or religious platform. I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

There is more statistics on abortion available on the link of William Robert Johnston, a Space Physics PhD student at the University of Texas (UT) at Dallas (in Richardson).

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/about.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/superindex-A-B.html

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 10:29 PM
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Russell,
You said,
"I am a Catholic. After Hagee made his remarks about literally crucifying all Catholics..."

Hagee really said that?!? Are those people really that despicable? My God! I am not Roman Catholic, but I am quite convinced that Catholics are every bit as Christian as I am. But a true Christian would never have said what Hagee did.

You are really 84? Wow! I'm only 65. Know what? It would really be neat if you could teach McCain about the internet!

God bless.

Posted by: Arminius | October 11, 2008 8:42 PM
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I am a Catholic. After Hagee made his remarks about literally crucifying all Catholics McCain went begging for his support. Mr Berlinerblau I gather that you personally consider the Hagee despicable remarks as acceptable, even though McCain supposedly repudiated them. Oh I see Mr Berlinerblau you have acceppted McCain's mea culpa so let's forget it ever happened. Why? Do you get some cash remuneration from the Republican Party, Bush, and if so how much. I am 84 years old and I have walked out of Catholic and Protestant Churches when I have heard hatred being preached from the pulpit. Needless to say I would never walk into a Church where you were speaking. I would be interested in hearing your comments on this post. I will be looking for it on a daily basis. Thank you.

Posted by: russell | October 11, 2008 8:20 PM
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I fail to see how Obama's association with Rev. Wright is troubling. Wright has engaged in a time-honored practice of prophetic preaching, preaching that confronts the nation with its sins. Yes, a few of his claims about the US are extreme, but the overall homiletic comes out of a rich and deep tradition, both in the black church and in broader American Christianity, a tradition more of American Christianity could benefit from.

Posted by: Herb | October 11, 2008 7:27 PM
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Spidey blathers,

"I hope I can show you the scripture why God is angry with the liberals of America. I can but I won't."

No, he can't show us. That is utterly apparent to anyone with a few functioning neurons who has read the bible.

Posted by: Arminius | October 11, 2008 6:43 PM
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The problems we have now is a VALUES PROBLEM more than anything else.

I hope I can show you the scripture why God is angry with the liberals of America. I can but I won't. There will be a time for that.

So go ahead and vote for your NO VALUES presidential candidate and let him appoint the NO VALUES judges in court.

Poor democratic states, their days are almost over. God will soon render His judgment.

People don't realize that economics are linked to values also. It's not surprising that this meltdown is centered in NEW YORK, a true blue democratic state.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 11, 2008 6:34 PM
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Marve1,

I see you've discovered Spidey. I'm afraid he can't be conversed with, and he won't answer questions. We have tried. He apparently thinks that Jesus is only someone in Revelation who tosses millions into some burning lake. Spidey does not know the Jesus who told us of the good Samaritan, who told us to love our enemies and pray for them, who told us to love our neighbors. Spidey is filled with hatred and walks in darkness. Please pray for him - I do.

Posted by: Arminius | October 11, 2008 5:21 PM
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Despite the Hate...ObamaBiden will win big.

In my case...its because of the Hate from McPalin that I'll be voting dem for the first time, that and the religion and the war and the lost economy.

You gotta be crazy to want more republicanism after the agony of the last eight years.

Posted by: merlin | October 11, 2008 4:59 PM
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To spiderman2 who said:

"...Sorry guys, you may win this election but you won't hold it for very long. God has reached the limit of his patience. He will soon render his judgment."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due, do you happen to live on another planet? Do you happen to have a rocket on which you can speed away from our "damned" country?

Using scripture to judge and condemn others doesn't make you any holier, as the devil knows the scripture just as well as you or I do. Understanding the spirit of the word and applying it to your words and actions daily toward those you don't like as well as to those you love---now that's spiritual.

In this country, as in pretty much a good number of countries around the world, there are 2 groups of the most defenseless of society on which our country has turned its back: the poor and the people with special needs. The poor are blamed for their poverty and problems but little or nothing is offered to them to overcome their situation. When people speak about the issues of the day, they talk about the middle class or the wealthy, not the bottom. As for people with special needs, they’re put into institutions against their will, mistreated, and when it suits a politician, the measly benefits that he receives are cut. They're more likely to be brutalized than any other group, given their inherent vulnerability. Does this sound familiar? I can name a couple of cities in biblical scripture that were destroyed by God himself for their wickedness, cities that took pride in their wealth and exerted no social conscience: Sodom and Gomorrah.

Many so-called "Christians" will always invoke the name of these 2 cities as proof that God hates gays. The truth of the matter was that the guys in the story were going to rape the 2 angels, not have consensual sex [that's not homosexuality, that's violence]. And if you took the time to learn the history of the 2 cities you would learn that these were rich, powerful cities, where the poor and different were not welcomed, much like our country today holds disdain for our poor as well as for the immigrant poor. So, if you believe that God will pass judgment on our country, you can be assured that it will be based on our actions as we understood them to be in our Christian teachings. If you truly follow Christ’s footsteps instead of just pass judgment like a Pharisee, then your actions will be those that will enable you to enter the kingdom of heaven, as provided in Jesus’s blueprint of a good Samaritan:

"Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me into your home. I needed clothes, and you gave me something to wear. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.' "Then the people who have God's approval will reply to him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you or see you thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you as a stranger and take you into our homes or see you in need of clothes and give you something to wear? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' The king will answer them, 'I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you did for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you did for me.’”

Posted by: Marve1 | October 11, 2008 4:57 PM
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Maybe the questions should be about Witchcraft by Palin's critics. Or adding fuel to flames that don't exist about Ayers. Maybe it is about Palin's "that dude"'s involvement with the Troopergate issue in Alaska.

So maybe after the election is over she can share a cell with Sen. Stevens.

Posted by: jerry rubin | October 11, 2008 4:41 PM
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REMEMBER THIS?

During the presidential forum at Rick Warren's California megachurch, John McCain was asked to name the "three wisest people" he would "rely heavily on" if elected president. McCain chose Gen. David Petraeus; former eBay CEO Meg Whitman, one of his economic advisers; and Rep. JOHN LEWIS (D-Ga.), a leading figure in the civil rights movement.

(This came as a great surpise to Lewis,and even though McCain has now repeatedly cited Lewis as a role model and potential adviser, McCain has not established a relationship with the Georgia Democrat in the 22 years they have served in Congress together. At the time of McCain's for many years without any contact intiated by McCain.)

_______________________________________

Civil rights icon, John Lewis, a Democratic congressman from Georgia who has endorsed Obama, pointed to “the negative tone of the McCain-Palin campaign,”
Lewis compared Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to George Wallace.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"George Wallace never threw a bomb," Lewis noted. "He never fired a gun, but he created the climate and the conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans who were simply trying to exercise their constitutional rights. Because of this atmosphere of hate, four little girls were killed on Sunday morning when a church was bombed in Birmingham, Alabama."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The full Lewis statement, titled
“Rep. John Lewis On Hostility of McCain-Palin Campaign,” reads:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“As one who was a victim of violence and hate during the height of the Civil Rights Movement, I am deeply disturbed by the negative tone of the McCain-Palin campaign. What I am seeing reminds me too much of another destructive period in American history. Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin are sowing the seeds of hatred and division, and there is no need for this hostility in our political discourse."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Even today, McCain is usiing Lewis as one of his issues- this is from McCain's website.

On Civil Rights:
In the summer of 1966, . JOHN LEWIS WAS ONE OF THE BRAVEST OF THOSE WHO STAYED TRUE TO THE FAITH, THEY COULDN'T SCARE THE COURAGE OUT OF HIM. THEY COULDN'T BEAT IT OUT OF HIM EITHER.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_McCain_Civil_Rights.htm

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 4:40 PM
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And of course, fan that flame of fear and hope it turns into a wildfire- attack the very foundation of the republic and insinuate that is it cracking apart-

John McCain in a recent speech- claimed that voting is one of the most precious rights we have- and we must be vigilant in fighting against it's corruption-
ACORN, the minority housing coalition has been signing people up for absentee voting.
FOX news has been "reporting" on alleged abused of fraud, most of the claims, coming from the college journaislt group Palestra-
(and astonishingly- the allegations of voter fraud are occuring in all contested electorally important states)

Here is a website that is a 'watchdog' site-
Not a white face in sight-
Here are some of the titles and lines form the articles-


Ex-ACORN employee/inmate: Co-workers were “lazy crackheads”

ACORN Watch: 1 voter, 72 registrations, ciggies and cash
“Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they’ll give me a dollar to sign up,” said Freddie Johnson, 19,"

Just doing the thug thizzle that ACORN and Obama know so well.
You can’t say “thug thizzle” — that’s RAAACIST!

"Acorn and its affiliates have pulled some real stunts in recent years. In Ohio in 2004, a worker for one affiliate was given CRACK COCAINE in exchange for fraudulent registrations that included underage voters, dead voters and pillars of the community named Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and JIVE TURKEY."
(2004?)

"Who he is, and why he will win »Obama, black nationalism, jihad, and the MSM
Previously, TakeYourCross has covered black barbarism and anti-Americanism, media coverage"

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/09/judge-rules-ohio-secretary-of-state-violated-federal-election-law/

Is there a pattern here?

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 4:15 PM
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I disagree with the idea that McCain hasn't brought up Rev. Wright because Americans are more concerned about Hoover, or the press is bored with the issue, or even because McCain had previously declared that topic off limits: he is so desperate that if he can talk about Ayres during an economic meltdown, Rev. Wright would be fair game.

Oh, McCain has another huge problem---with his brilliant pick, Palin. The pastor problem that Palin has is much too embarrassing for McCain to take a chance. Muthee, the pastor in question, began his ministry with a witch hunt against a Kenyan woman whom he publicly declared "a witch responsible for the town's ills." He ordered the woman to offer her soul for salvation or leave town and the woman chose to leave town. This incident seems like a regression to the days of the Spanish Inquisition, and Palin knowingly seems to embrace this person. We can be sure that if McCain brings up Jeremiah Wright in his rhetoric, Obama's camp will put Palin's pastor problem in the open. What an unnecessary embarrassment!

Posted by: Marve1 | October 11, 2008 4:13 PM
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Based on the premise that an enemy of my enemy is my friend, the Republicans have consorted with terrorists on a global scale.

Notable Republicans were very good friends with Saddam Hussein even during the time that Saddam was such a terrible dictator. We provided him with arms (biological and chemical agents being supplied from the U.S.). Yes, Iraq was in a war with Iran.

Notable U.S. government agents were very helpful during the days when Afghanistan was in a struggle with the Soviet Union. Many of these Afghan notables later became the taliban and parts of Al Qaeda. Again we supplied arms to these fighters of Soviet agression to find out that they would later use them on us.

Castro is a result of U.S. policy of trying to depose a dictator in Cuba. Castro was a "freedom fighter" in Cuba. "Freedom fighter" sounds so good to U.S. citizens. When Eisenhower left office, we knew that Castro was no real friend.

Yes, the U.S. has tried to influence the politics in other countries to find out that we often get stuck in the deal. We never seem to learn.

One of the worst acts of international terrorism actually came about at the hands of George Bush when we attacked a sovereign nation on the pretext that it had weapons of mass distruction (aimed at us -- a joke). In fact, with or without WMDs, Iraq had absolutely no ability to deliver such weapons in an attack on U.S. soil.

If anything, both McCain and Obama are "friendly" to a terrorist because as recently as two weeks ago they were in the cabinet room with Bush.

I suggest that Republicans in general are false patriots because they are always badmouthing our government. We forget that our government is we the people. Our government is not an inanimate object. To be patriotic is to stand in defense of the U.S. government and our Constitution, which of course is we the people. To be patriotic is to pay our taxes so that we the people can flourish under our government which works for the common good, not just the good of one political party or the privileged few. Unfortunately, the Republicans have been teaching us that the government only works for half of us, only the half that wins the elections. When it comes to terrorists and associations, let us look at the entire context and actions. Obama is no terrorist. He does not plot and scheme to do anything harmful to America. However, just listen to a McCain-Palin rally. Listen to the hateful, sarcastic, and scary speech and then tell me who the terrorists are. The Tim McVays walk among us, and they are most likely in the Repubican Party.

Now having said this, isn't it about time to change the rhetoric to a rhetoric of honest debate about policies and programs that will provide a better America for all of us. To appeal or actively try to appeal to the fringe groups does the typical American no favors. Out of such come the likes of Tim McVay, David Koresh, the Unibomber, Son of Sam, and so forth.

The biggest problem with Palin is that she has no humility and she is all gall. Now we know that she does not accept responsility for her own misdeeds. What are we teaching our young people? What should we be teaching our young people?

Posted by: EarlC | October 11, 2008 4:12 PM
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One would think that Sarah Palin also has questionable ties to organizations and people. Her connection, whether by membership or not, to the Alaska Independent Party makes any statement that she would make about Jeremiah Wright nul and void. It always amazes me that people with some of the largest skeletons in their own closets are so quick to point out the skeletons in the closets of others.

The Republican talking points that I listen to ad nauseum on TV are totally false.

1. Sarah Palin was cleared of the Troopergate scandal. She did not have an ethical problem. (This totally misreads the report.)

2. The commission that released the report on Sarah Palin was Democrat driven. (Republicans outnumbered Democrats, both the proceeding with the investigation and the release of the final report was done with unanimous votes.)

3. Obama associates or "is friends" with an unrepentent terrorist Bill Ayers. (totally untrue about an "unrepentent" Bill Ayers. This originates from the interview that Bill Ayers did with the New York Times that was actually published on 9/11. Bill Ayers was referring to his thoughts at the time that he was in the Weatherman and was also reading excerpts from his book. Bill Ayers has sense said that he regretted his prior association with the Weathermen. What is wrong with Obama being friends with any American citizen. In fact, Bill Ayers was never convicted of any crime.)

4. Regarding Rezco, Obama has already expressed his regrets about this relationship.

5. About Jeremiah Wright - Obama cannot be held accountable for Wright's point of view and his sermons. Judge Obama by what he says and does.

6. The strategy of the Republican campaign by persuing bogus personal issues indicates the depths to which they will go to win an election. The problem with trying to win in this way makes the prize somewhat jaded. The Republicans do not practice what they preach.

Posted by: EarlC | October 11, 2008 3:33 PM
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http://www.isebrand.com/Gore_Vidal_Monotheism_1992.htm

"(The Great Unmentionable) Monotheism and its Discontents," The Lowell Lecture, Harvard University, April 20, 1992

It is very easy to discuss what has gone wrong with us. It is not so easy to discuss what should be done to correct what has gone wrong. It is impossible in our public discourse to discuss why so much has gone wrong and, indeed, has been wrong with us since the very beginning of the country, and even before that when our white tribes were living elsewhere. ......

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 3:25 PM
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Persiflage wrote-
"In the mean time, Sarah Palin is finally outed as the manipulative little power monger that she always seemed to be."

The bipartisan legislative investigators in Alaska has concluded the she abused her woer, and violated the public trust and found her in violation of ethics standards.

The GOP reaction is to ignore this and hopes it goes away.
Palin hopes to set the tone for the next week's news cycle by dropping the contrived Obama/Terrorist connection, and is turning her stump to an issue that is at the top of everyone's mind now.

Is it the ECONOMY?
Nooo
How about ...the financial meltdown??

Noooo......

Is there another divisive polarizing issue she could lock onto and distrat the american voter with- while coalescing the mob into one cohesive slathering whole again?
YOU BETCHA!

You gotta keep inflaming those passions- keep people angry and too distracted to ask for answers for real problems-
abortion.

thaaaat's right- that old chestnut-

"Tell people what they want to hear; give them simple solutions to complex problems, enemies on whom they can blame their discontents." - Nazi propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels.

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 3:12 PM
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See in the news McCain shouted down by his own constituents in Wisconson - when he dared refer to Obama as a decent man. Not only are voters vastly underinformed about the candidates, they just plain believe what they want to believe, and evidence to the contrary be damned.

What goes around comes around - when you set the dogs of hell loose with your own pit bull, they will turn on you, the minute you stop showing your fangs and decide inadvisedly to take a break from being 'the biggest, meanest dog on the block'.

He is traveling the all-white, ultra-conservative circuit in the frozen North.....and these folks are very well armed. This part of the country offers a particularly virulent sub-species of McCainite.

The Aryan militia types and white supremists are not necessarily found exclusively down South. They often prefer the frozen tundra and high mountain passes of the North and West. It is worrisome that some of these folks have an extremely dangerous mindset and are very well organized. This is the environment that spawned Timothy McVeigh, among other like-minded anti-social types.

In the mean time, Sarah Palin it finally outed as the manipulative little power monger that she always seemed to be. She is far more Bush-like than the once decent John McCain could ever be.
He shot himself in the foot with that selection, and now he's stuck with cleaning up the blood.

_________________

Spiderman2 just below seems to be a typcial McCain supporter/end of the worlder. There is really no limit to 'crazy'.

Posted by: perciflage | October 11, 2008 2:45 PM
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TROY — It could have been Ovama or Ofama. Or even Olama.

But with one "s" the Rensselaer County Board of Elections turned a single wrong letter into a national embarrassment Friday.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's last name is spelled "Osama" on some 300 absentee ballots mailed out this week to voters in Rensselaer County hilltowns.

Is it a Freudian slip, intentional gaffe or a mistake? Voters are sure to have opinions, and one politician pointed out that the letters "s" and "b" are not exactly keyboard neighbors.

"Of all the letters to hit by mistake," County Democratic Chairman Tom Wade said. "Unfortunately it is a mistake which negatively impacts our Democratic candidate for president."

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=728326

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 2:18 PM
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"In predominantly Catholic countries like Ireland and Poland where the laws are even more stringent, the rate of abortion is extremely low. Even though many women go abroad to get legal abortions anyway the numbers are nowhere near which would be the number of abortions if the laws were lax. Nobody reads of thousands of Irish and Polish women dying due to abortion in back alleys by quacks."
_________________________________________________

Ireland and Poland also have socialized medicine, strong social welfare safety nets, and do not encourage their businesses to throw their fellow citizens out of work and ship jobs overseas!

That means even poor parents in these countries don't have to worry about their newborns starving, receiving necessary health care, or weather they're going to have a job tommorrow.

If the "christian right" (lower case because they are not) cared a fraction as much about children who are born, as they profess to care about children still in the womb, I suspect the abortion rate in the US would be much lower than it is. Isn't it the same Republican party who railed against "welfare mothers" having babies!?

On another note, my wife is a Labor/delivery nurse and I can assure you it is not the poor and minorities who are getting abortions; it is the career women who get knocked up and decide having a child would interfere with their climb up the corporate ladder...I suspect many of these women are Republicans!

If these people really cared about reducing abortions, common sense would dictate educating teens about contraception and making it available without parental consent needed; how many of us, when we were teens, informed our parents that we were going to make out, engage in heavy petting, etc, when we were teens!? To think "abstinence only" sex education is going to reduce unwanted pregnancy is insane!

Posted by: Risejugger | October 11, 2008 2:12 PM
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Obama middle name, means "handsome" - a very good choice for the name of one's chil. His father was born and raised a Muslim but he was an affirmed atheist by the time he met his wife, Obama’s mother whom he in any case divorced when Barack Jr was very young. The senator has written that he "was not raised in a religious household" and converted to Christianity from de facto agnosticism in early adulthood.

His middle name does not make him any more friendlier towards Muslims than a Zionist Jew would feel hatred for a Muslim and nor the colour of his skin means that he has any empathy for Islam. On the contrary, his many pronouncements are considered remotely favourable to Islam and the Muslims and a vast majority of Muslims consider him a staunch supporter of Zionist Israel cause.

He is a Christian who is opposed to Islamic theology and Sharia same as John McCain, President G W Bush and Sarah Palin. The racist white Americans are using every excuse beside the colour of his skin to demonize him either a Muslim, terrorists or a liberal gay supporter.

Posted by: Saqib Khan | October 11, 2008 1:56 PM
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I don't think I heard, in any of Rev. Wrights comments, incitement of the crowd to violence against "Whitey."

I cannot say the same for the McCain campaign's recent KKK hate rallies!

Hate and intolerance have nothing to do with Christianity.

Posted by: Risejugger | October 11, 2008 12:54 PM
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Where are the American virtues? American Christians have no great problem with exchanging a previous wife for one younger and more attractive, all the while rejecting any obligation for reproducing and raising offspring. At a cue from the Jews, American Christians have come to believe all their heavenly rewards will be met in this life

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 12:53 PM
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So, then, all the blue states will get nuked.
Spidey asks "Who would Jesus bomb?", and his twisted mind spews forth an answer.
Is this Christianity? The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is really looking good now.

Posted by: Arminius | October 11, 2008 12:26 PM
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Wow, the right-wingers have done a good job of side-tracking this campaign discussion with their favorite topic. I wonder, is their desperation so intense with McCain's numbers dropping and Obama's rising that they have completely abandoned any attempt to flesh out McCain's stances on the critical issues (like the economy) in favor of a smear campaign. Wasn't it McCain who said four years ago that the Swift Boat attacks against Kerry were deplorable?

Posted by: kraigah | October 11, 2008 12:22 PM
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The Republican Party of liars and hypocrites and sexual deviants has taken Christianity and turned it into the biggest joke of a religion on the planet.

Posted by: chasemonster | October 11, 2008 11:28 AM
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Massachusettes, California and now Connecticut. These states allow gay marriage and abortion.They are all Democrats. All Democratic States will burn like Sodom. Republicans will remain to rule the world. That would be Heaven on Earth as the Bible prophesied.

Sorry guys, you may win this election but you won't hold it for very long. God has reached the limit of his patience. He will soon render his judgment.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 11, 2008 11:20 AM
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America will be damned. That's the prophecy and the Dems are pushing the FAST-FORWARD button. Go ahead Democrats. Drive us there quick!!

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 11, 2008 11:09 AM
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Connecticut has become the third State to allow gay marriage. There will be more in the future. America is becoming like Sodom slowly but surely, and Barrack Obama is a party to that. He will accelerate this stupidity by appointing very liberal judges which he admitted in Warren's interview.

God will damn America. Wright was right on that but was wrong in supporting Obama.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 11, 2008 11:03 AM
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I'm probably politically left of Obama. A product of the 60's - Chicago, Kent State, marches on Washington. We saw a lot to damn America for. The mostly white, Military Industrial Establishment's forces (that Eisenhower had warned against) were rising. The Nixon clan was on the run. Hope was in the air.

But the powerbrokers were not unseated. Minorities (of all colors, even white) were kept in their place,and the unfettered capitalistic system was allowed to run over everybody that got in it's way.

This 'white boy', me, was called a commie by a Republican organiser in my small town.

I remember it well. And, I've listened to the Rev. Wright's "God damn America" sermon, and I understand where he was speaking from. It was not from a dream of destroying what America stands (stood) for, but a damnation of what it has/had become.

I think I get it. Perhaps we should be proud that he saw the evil of our ways, too.

Posted by: David in Dallas | October 11, 2008 10:46 AM
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I wish folks would get a grip. They talked the same hogwash about Dr. Martin Luther King. If you don't anything about black churches and have never attended one on a regular basis, you don't know what you're talking about. They all have this type of sermon every once in awhile. I mean really, it's only been 150 since the end of slavery, about 40 years since the end of Jim Crow, and racial bigotry and discrimination still goes on. What do you expect? Happy, happy, joy, joy.

As far as pro-life is concerned, most of the pro-lifers I've ever met are actually pro-death. They are anti-choice, pro-death penalty, and pro-war. You worry about some poor woman getting an abortion, but having worked in a children's protective services at social services for a time, I can tell you that adults do much worse to children than a woman having an abortion. I'm not pro-abortion but pro-choice. Provide the tools to prevent unwanted pregnancies, provide good prenatal care, provide good after birth care, and provide community support for mothers and their children and then you'll see almost no abortions.

Posted by: Kitty | October 11, 2008 9:46 AM
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Here's what Palin's "Christians" do when faced with the checks-and-balances of legislative oversight.

- refuse to testify or cooperate

- blame their political opponents

- declare themselves above the law

By their fruits you shall know them.

Posted by: Roy | October 11, 2008 7:32 AM
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Notwithstanding denying ever hearing Rev Wright's comments, are we to believe it's not newsworthy that Obama, claiming deep faith in Jesus, stayed at a church that claimed Jesus as it's Messiah, but gave a lifetime award to Louis Farrakhan, who disturbingly calls Obama himself "The Messiah?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OowxMcVTjTE

Faith & contradictions aside, what exactly was Obama so focused on for 20 years of Sundays, that he missed what everyone else can plainly see?

Considering the office, it's not McCain actions, but Obama's lack of perception, and poor character judgement that raises questions that should be held to the light.

Posted by: NorthDave | October 11, 2008 5:20 AM
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Victoria, you wrote I'm talking to myself here. This is an international public forum. Is it possible to talk to oneself on it?

Even if no one responds to my posts, I know at least a few people are reading them. My intention is no more than to provide some thoughts for reflection, some facts for consideration if they can be provided.

Abortion is a human rights issue and I speak on behalf of the completely innocent, voiceless and defenseless unborn children killed by the thousands everyday in the name of "right" and "privacy."

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 3:56 AM
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William (Wm) Robert Johnston

Don't downplay risks of abortion

in The Brownsville Herald, June 29, 2003, p. E3.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abriskeditorial.html

______________________________________

Although I do not agree that abortion and incidence of breast cancer are related, Johnston makes several good points.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 3:29 AM
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So, the news tonight is Steven Branchflower's findings on the Troopergate Investigation where Palin was accused of ethics violations.

The legislative board (a bi-partisan board which had Palin's full co-operation until she was nominated as VP- at whch the she has stonewalled the ongoing and pre-nominative inquiry)
found that ,under the Executive Branch Ethics Act- Plain has abused her power as Gov- and violated the trust of the public.

While, it is legal for her to fire anyone she deems deserving- this was not what the inquiry was concerned with.

It was the impermissable exertion of pressure by Palin, her husband, and Top Aides placed on subordinates to fire Wooten, creating a conflict of interest in her subordiinates who had the choice to either please their boss- or face her displeasure.

The extensive documented evidence (many recorded phone calls on record)is not disputed , and Todd Palin has admitted to and conceded the facts of the evidence's credibility.

Palin's defense that Wooten was a real threat to the safety of her and her family, and (so far unproven)allegations that he made a death threat to her father, and tasered his 10 year old stepson, was repsonded to by Branchflower.

He found the threat not a credible defense, because Palin dismissed her own security detail soon after she became Gov- from both Anchorage and Juneau and finds it to be inconsistent if she were really worried about the safety of her family.

He also stated that, if anything, getting Wooten fired would increase the potential threat.
And that this challenges the basis of Palin's reasons for exercising that firing.

Her abuse of power, and violation of ethics and public trust are a violation of law, and punishable by censure or theoretically impeachment, which, in a republican controlled legislature seems unlikely.

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 3:18 AM
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VICTORIA:

anon
william robert johnston is a right wingnut-
which is fine- but you should find a neutral source ot make a point- but you are talking to yourself here-

October 11, 2008 3:07 AM

__________________________________________

A "rightwing nut" who compiles *world* statistics on abortion? The tables did not show any political affiliation, so I don't quite understand where you got that bit of information from. And besides collecting statistics from around the world doesn't come across like a party agenda to me.

On the other hand, didn't you just INVENT your own statistics, *for partisan reasons,* claiming there was a 34% reduction in abortion in the Clinton term?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 3:17 AM
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VICTORIA:

anon
william robert johnston is a right wingnut-
which is fine- but you should find a neutral source ot make a point- but you are talking to yourself here-

October 11, 2008 3:07 AM

__________________________________________

A "rightwing nut" who compiles *world* statistics on abortion?

On the other haDidn't you just INVENT your own statistics for partisan reasons?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 3:13 AM
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Berkeley:

it continues to boggle my mind that our media, and you in this article - which actually focuses on religion - cannot seem to figure out how to discuss premillenial dispensationalism.

Please understand, Rev. Wright may have discredited himself, but black liberation theology (whether one agrees with it or not) is actually taught in seminaries throughout the world. I mean, you can have a scholarly debate about it.

Why isn't anyone talking about what Sarah Palin sat in church and listened to for 20 years? There is videotape footage of her standing on stage nodding her hingead in agreement while her pastor talks about the end of the world and how people are going to be fleeing to Alaska to escape it.

This is far right-wing nutcase theology that isn't taught in ANY mainstream seminary. How can this not even be an issue when End Times theology is so closely linked with Israel's existence and the war in the Middle East? This has HUGE implications for the conduct of foreign policy and is deeply disturbing. Rev. Wright was and is "child's play" compared to this stuff - and NO ONE is talking about it.

October 11, 2008 2:36 AM

___________________________________

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Partisan take on religions is even more dangerous.

The Pentacostal Church is a mainstream Christian denomination with thousands of Churches worldwide. They do not preach any hatred and division. If they foolishly believe they know the time the world is going to end, no harm done. If those in Alaska think that many are going to seek refuge there, in what way does it affect anyone's life?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 3:10 AM
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So, the news tonight is Steven Branchflower's findings on the Troopergate Investigation where Palin was accused of ethics violations.

The legislative board (a bi-partisan board which had Palin's full co-operation until she was nominated as VP- at whch the she has stonewalled the ongoing and pre-nominative inquiry)
found that ,under the Executive Branch Ethics Act- Plain has abused her power as Gov- and violated the trust of the public.

While, it is legal for her to fire anyone she deems deserving- this was not what the inquiry was concerned with.

It was the impermissable exertion of pressure by Palin, her husband, and Top Aides placed on subordinates to fire Wooten, creating a conflict of interest in her subordiinates who had the choice to either please their boss- or face her displeasure.

The extensive documented evidence (many recorded phone calls on record)is not disputed , and Todd Palin has admitted to and conceded the facts of the evidence's credibility.

Palin's defense that Wooten was a real threat to the safety of her and her family, and (so far unproven)allegations that he made a death threat to her father, and tasered his 10 year old stepson, was repsonded to by Branchflower.

He found the threat not a credible defense, because Palin dismissed her own security detail soon after she became Gov- from both Anchorage and Juneau and finds it to be inconsistent if she were really worried about the safety of her family.

He also stated that, if anything, getting Wooten fired would increase the potential threat.
And that this challenges the basis of Palin's reasons for exercising that firing.

Her abuse of power, and violation of ethics and public trust are a violation of law, and punishable by censure or theoretically impeachment, which, in a republican controlled legislature seems unlikely.

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 3:08 AM
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anon
william robert johnston is a right wingnut-
which is fine- but you should find a neutral source ot make a point- but you are talking to yourself here-

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 3:07 AM
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Please look up the original table with abortion statistics here

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/graphusabrate.html

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 3:00 AM
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So, the news tonight is Steven Branchflower's findings on the Troopergate Investigation where Palin was accused of ethics violations.

The legislative board (a bi-partisan board which had Palin's full co-operation until she was nominated as VP- at whch the she has stonewalled the ongoing and pre-nominative inquiry)
found that ,under the Executive Branch Ethics Act- Plain has abused her power as Gov- and violated the trust of the public.

While, it is legal for her to fire anyone she deems deserving- this was not what the inquiry was concerned with.

It was the impermissable exertion of pressure by Palin, her husband, and Top Aides placed on subordinates to fire Wooten, creating a conflict of interest in her subordiinates who had the choice to either please their boss- or face her displeasure.

The extensive documented evidence (many recorded phone calls on record)is not disputed , and Todd Palin has admitted to and conceded the facts of the evidence's credibility.

Palin's defense that Wooten was a real threat to the safety of her and her family, and (so far unproven)allegations that he made a death threat to her father, and tasered his 10 year old stepson, was repsonded to by Branchflower.

He found the threat not a credible defense, because Palin dismissed her own security detail soon after she became Gov- from both Anchorage and Juneau and finds it to be inconsistent if she were really worried about the safety of her family.

He also stated that, if anything, getting Wooten fired would increase the potential threat.
And that this challenges the basis of Palin's reasons for exercising that firing.

Her abuse of power, and violation of ethics and public trust are a violation of law, and punishable by censure or theoretically impeachment, which, in a republican controlled legislature seems unlikely.

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 2:56 AM
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Pre sexual revolution:

Year Abortion Abortion rate (per 1,000 LB)

1960 292 0.07
1961 292 0.07
1962 292 0.07
1963 390 0.10
1964 823 0.20
1965 794 0.21
1966 1,028 0.29
1967 2,061 0.59

Post sexual revolution/Pre Roe vs Wade

1968 4,630 1.3
1969 23,680 6.6
1970 193,491 51.9
1971 485,816 136.6
1972 586,760 180.1

Post Roe vs Wade

1973 744,600 237.4
1974 898,600 284.4
1975 1,034,200 328.9
1976 1,179,300 372.3
1977 1,316,700 395.8
1978 1,409,600 422.9
1979 1,497,700 428.6
1980 1,553,900 430.2
1981 1,577,300 434.6
1982 1,573,920 427.6
1983 1,575,000 432.8
1984 1,577,200 429.9
1985 1,588,600 422.4
1986 1,574,000 419.0
1987 1,559,100 409.3
1988 1,590,800 406.9

Statistics compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston

____________________________________

Note the leap in number of abortions post sexual revolution and exponential leap post Roe vs Wade. The numbers began to drop below 400 abortions per 1,000 live births only since 1989.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 2:56 AM
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Year Abortion Abortion Rate
(per 1,000 live births

1989 1,566,900 387.8
1990 1,608,600 386.8
1991 1,556,510 378.6
1992 1,528,930 376.1
1993 1,495,000 373.7

Statistics compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston
_____________________________________________

Victoria, the statistics from the same table, shows the abortion rate in pre-Clinton years. No sign of the 34% reduction you mentioned.

Johnston has done a good compilation of abortion statistics worldwide, with all the data that he could collect.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 2:42 AM
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1993 1,495,000 373.7
1994 1,423,000 360.0
1995 1,359,400 348.6
1996 1,360,160 349.5
1997 1,335,000 344.0
1998 1,319,000 334.6
1999 1,314,800 332.1
2000 1,312,990 323.5
2001 1,291,000 320.7
2002 1,269,000 315.5
2003 1,250,000 305.6
2004 1,222,100 297.2
2005 1,206,200 291.5

Year Abortions Abortion Ratio*

*(per 1,000 live births)

Statistics compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston
last modified 17 February 2008

_________________________________________

Victoria, the rate of abortion has been steadily decreasing, not just in President Clinton years, but also during the term of President Bush.

How much of this reduction is real and how much of it is due to imperfect data collection and incomplete record keeping is another matter.

But even the rate in 2005 at 291.5 abortions for every 1,000 live births is a little too high, don't you think?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 2:36 AM
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it continues to boggle my mind that our media, and you in this article - which actually focuses on religion - cannot seem to figure out how to discuss premillenial dispensationalism.

Please understand, Rev. Wright may have discredited himself, but black liberation theology (whether one agrees with it or not) is actually taught in seminaries throughout the world. I mean, you can have a scholarly debate about it.

Why isn't anyone talking about what Sarah Palin sat in church and listened to for 20 years? There is videotape footage of her standing on stage nodding her head in agreement while her pastor talks about the end of the world and how people are going to be fleeing to Alaska to escape it.

This is far right-wing nutcase theology that isn't taught in ANY mainstream seminary. How can this not even be an issue when End Times theology is so closely linked with Israel's existence and the war in the Middle East? This has HUGE implications for the conduct of foreign policy and is deeply disturbing. Rev. Wright was and is "child's play" compared to this stuff - and NO ONE is talking about it.

Posted by: Berkeley | October 11, 2008 2:36 AM
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Victoria, knowing you are pro-abortion, unless you provide reliable statistics I can verify, sorry, it is just your opinion.

Even the statistics of Guttmacher Institute is to be viewed with some skepticism (leave alone anything that comes out of abortion clinics like Planned Parenthood and Naral) and needs to be verified with other independent reports because these institutions promote unlimited access to abortion as a right.

Even the best statistics is bound to be flawed because there is a general tendency to create the impression that abortions are being reduced, and records are poorly maintained. If the abstinence program is really working, then it can be seen as a reliable indicator of reduction in abortions. Unfortunately the abstinence alone program success rate isn't all that great, although it has increased slightly the age at which sex life is initiated.

CDC has stopped compiling statistics, which is a bad sign.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 2:06 AM
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There is no wrong if it helps the voters to know more about a either ticket. Let the voters decide.

Reading all these news reports/blogs etc., I find serious concerns with the ticket of both major parties. The McCain/Palin ticket continues to distress me with the serious mistakes they continue to make as part of their campaign. They do seem to be people from good roots and people that I do know much about. The Obama/Biden ticket impresses me with the skill used to run their campaign. Beating the Clinton machine was no simple task. However, it distresses me, very much, that I do not know much about Senator Obama's roots with ACORN and others. I urge both tickets to quit telling me what I know (poor economy, war, etc.). Between now and November 4th, tell me what I do not know. No American should be willing to risk America's future to a ticket for which they do not know all.

Posted by: Dale Leanhardt | October 11, 2008 2:02 AM
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Say it Ain't So Rock Star Sarah!

Just when thought it was safe to appreciate the benefits of a woman on the ticket – she opens her mouth again and – as she is prone to do, inserts foot. We’ve already discussed her tenacity during the debate and happily noted that she “did no harm”. Still I wondered why I haven’t seen her on The Today Show for example. Why isn’t she talking to Diane Sawyer? Why are they still keeping her locked away?

Then I turned on CNN one night and heard the sound bites attributed to her and I understood. Now here are three ways where McCain’s strategy is beginning to backfire on him.

1. The day after the debate she was caught on camera talking about how much she would have loved to come and talk to the hard working people in Michigan. She thought John made a mistake pulling out so soon and intimated that she was not consulted on that decision. Well, she should have simply said something like “We love the hard-working people in Michigan and we know they are hurting. A McCain/Palin ticket will fight for Michigan!” Isn’t that a much better sound-bite?

2. I thought she was the Calvary come to rescue a weary Republican McCain campaign but she’s dragging up tired, beaten like a dead horse rhetoric that we’ve all tired of. Speaking of Rev. Wright, questioning that relationship indicates that she has nothing new and exciting to say, if she ever did! Not to mention the fact that her running mate rather diligently sought the support of “evangelicals” and had a few problems with that as well. Can you say John Hagee or Rod Parsley?

3. When that gentleman in Florida, during his pre-Palin speech referred to Obama as “Hussein” he opened the floodgates and allowed bigotry to rise to the top. Well, there was Sarah calling Obama a traitor and terrorist. And because she is trying to go there McCain is now having to condemn such conversation at each stop he makes. “No, he’s a good American, he just doesn’t have it right like I do.” He’s sinking faster than a lead balloon partly because he has to spend time speaking out against such attitudes.

So, “sound-bite Sarah” has quickly turned into “Say It Ain’t So Rock Star Sarah!” Her public disapproval of several McCain stances, along with her gun-toting, let’s go get ‘em boys attitude and tired/tried rhetoric is causing John to spend far too much time rebutting her remarks. I’m sure he still has trouble sleeping because it seems he, his running mate and his strategists are not in sync. Regarding the McCain/Palin ticket, I’m more confused at who is the asset in that relationship. Rock star Sarah is one step away from pushing the doddering old man over the edge. You saw how green M&M had the boys speechless didn’t you?

Posted by: Darlene Dickson | October 11, 2008 2:02 AM
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The abortion rate fell by 34% under the Clinton Administration. It's really true Anon.

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 11, 2008 1:10 AM
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Switzerland has started raising objections to "abortion tourism."

All of it simply means that there is a deep intuitive feeling in human beings that abortion is a crime. Hard core medical science confirms that a child in the womb is a living human being merely in its early stage of development and growth continues long after its birth.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 11, 2008 12:21 AM
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Obama's radical socialist ideology -- encapsulated so eloquently by Rev. Wright -- is absolutely the LAST thing we need in an economic crisis.

Posted by: j.a.m. | October 10, 2008 11:59 PM
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In predominantly Catholic countries like Ireland and Poland where the laws are even more stringent, the rate of abortion is extremely low. Even though many women go abroad to get legal abortions anyway the numbers are nowhere near which would be the number of abortions if the laws were lax. Nobody reads of thousands of Irish and Polish women dying due to abortion in back alleys by quacks.

Abortion as a right does create a mindset in which abortion is resorted to as a contraceptive measure. People may be driven and motivated by their conscience, but conscience itself if a conditioned thing based on the values it has been instilled with.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:56 PM
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Since Senators Obama and Biden are serious about reducing the number of abortions, they must know from abortion statistics in countries where there is comprehensive sex education, free availability of contraceptives and good social benefits, those alone are not sufficient. Tougher laws have played an equally important role in reducing abortions. In Germany for instance, abortion is considered a violation of its Constitution, however abortion may be obtained as a legally non-punishable offense under certain circumstances. That provision more than covers all "hard" cases, leaving sufficient room even for "less hard" cases. But there is a public awareness that abortion is violation of rights of the unborn child and involves taking an innocent life, and the mother is forced to face that fact before going ahead with abortion, the number of abortions remain lower than in other countries with comparable sex education, availability of contraceptives and social benefits.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:47 PM
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Joe Six-Pack will be Joe Tap-Water if we let the Republicans have another 4 years to run the economy - that is, run it into the ground.

Posted by: John Williams | October 10, 2008 10:58 PM
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Jack:

"Life begins at conception.

No abortion (including in rape and incest cases) unless it is necessary to save the life of the mother.

Abstinence only."
-----------------------------------------------

Welcome the the "FREE" world. I must ask, do you claim to be a Christian?

October 10, 2008 10:22 PM

________________________________________________

There are many "personally opposed" Christians who say they consider abortion murder of an unborn child but they are not so rude as to tell another woman not to kill her unborn child.

Then there those Christians who say that the child growing in the womb is a vegetable until it can breathe with its own lungs after birth (which of course implies all those who hold their breath in the water are vegetables during that time), or is at least large enough for the mother to feel its movements in the womb. It is not about whether the child exists and is growing in the womb at its pace, but whether the mother can feel it. If she can't then it doesn't exist, at least not as a human being.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:47 PM
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Life begins at conception.

No abortion (including in rape and incest cases) unless it is necessary to save the life of the mother.

Abstinence only.

Our war crimes and genocide in Iraq are God’s will.

October 10, 2008 2:58 PM

__________________________________

The Anonymous who wrote the above meant it to be a mockery of those who are opposed to abortion-of-convenience.

My response was to those who advocate abortion for convenience as a right.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:40 PM
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"Life begins at conception.

No abortion (including in rape and incest cases) unless it is necessary to save the life of the mother.

Abstinence only."
-----------------------------------------------

Welcome the the "FREE" world. I must ask, do you claim to be a Christian?

Posted by: Jack | October 10, 2008 10:22 PM
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and you are correct sir. I shall hope to be reading more of your prose.

Posted by: right you are | October 10, 2008 10:20 PM
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And which Christian who has read Psalm 139 and Luke chapter 1 dare say without batting an eyelid that a child in the womb is not a human person endowed with life by God and whose body is being merely knit together in stages in the womb? The baby's body that takes on all the external form of a tiny human being at only eight weeks after fertilization? And before those eight weeks it was merely growing at a rapid genetically set pace, from a single cell to that tiny completely human looking baby within eight weeks, deriving merely oxygen and nutrients from its mother via the umbilical cord plugged into the mother with a detachable placenta.

The baby's heart begins to beat - at its own pace - at day 22/23 after fertilization. If a beating heart is not a sign of a living human being, what is?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:07 PM
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And which Christian who has read Psalm 139 and Luke chapter 1 say without batting a lid that a child in the womb is not a human person endowed with life by God and whose body is being merely knit together in stages in the womb, a body that takes on all the external form of a tiny human being at only eight weeks after fertilization? And before those eight weeks it was merely growing at a rapid genetically set pace, from a single cell to that tiny completely human looking baby within eight weeks, deriving merely oxygen and nutrients from its mother via the umbilical cord plugged into the mother with a detachable placenta.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:04 PM
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And there are enough Americans who find Roe vs Wade unconstitutional - brutal and inhuman violation of the unalienable right to life for the unborn child.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 9:22 PM
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Enough Americans are arguing the case against abortion being the "right" of the mother.

If the Unborn Child is a Person Entitled to Rights, Abortion is Aggression

by Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr.

http://www.l4l.org/library/pers-agg.html

Why the Embryo or Fetus Is Not a Parasite

by Thomas L. Johnson

http://www.l4l.org/library/notparas.html

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 9:20 PM
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Anonymous:

Life begins at conception.

No abortion (including in rape and incest cases) unless it is necessary to save the life of the mother.

Abstinence only.

October 10, 2008 2:58 PM

____________________________________________

The last I checked the abstinence education is only about abstinence *outside* a committed relationship.

The most highly "moral" stand of course is to kill unborn children without compunction, calling a child in the womb a "parasite," which the mother has a "right" to kill. And yes, to cover up the lack of compunction, the trick is to talk ever so sanctimoniously about animal rights, concern for the few voluntary soldiers dying in wars and a rare criminal who after due process is sentenced to death. (And btw, most people who are against abortion are also against cruelty to animals, unjust wars and capital punishment.)

Only TWO PERCENT of abortions can be ethically justified - and that covers all cases of rape, incest, illness in mother and fetal deformities! Ninety eight percent of abortions are for *convenience.*

It is a pity that Governor Sarah Palin is not discussing the morality of abortion and referring to the decision of the German Constitutional Court.

Abortion is a human rights issue that should be kept alive by those who know the facts around abortion, in the hope that a younger generation will have the opportunity to assess fairly the heinousness of abortion.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 8:51 PM
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Jihadist writes:

"One also read about Israel every now and then threathening to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. If there is really one making nukes. And of course, the oft repeated quote or misquote from the President to push the "Zionist regime into the sea." We know that is impossible. Several Arab nations went to war with Israel and failed, including Egypt and Syria. So, Iran pushing Israel into the sea? There is Iraq to cross over with its airspace controlled by the US military....."

This is much more complicated than most people are aware of. As an Iranian-American I still have connections with Iran, still follow developments. First, as you probably know, the buffoon "president" has done nothing to solve Iran's economic problems despite his promises prior to the fake election. Demonstrations for jobs are continuous. In the meantime, Iranians are frightened of Israel, and Israelis of Iran. All of this is unsurprisingly being orchestrated by the US, which routinely sells Jews for oil, and the Israeli government goes along.

It is we who convinced the idiotic former PM to invade Lebanon as you probably know, and whatever action occurs against Iran will be our doing. This US government which arms Egypt and other Middle Eastern nations has Israel make the weapons, sell them to these countries whose people are starving even as I write. Egypt arms terrorists who then strike Israelis--Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc.--and keep their own people in bondage.

In this way, that pig Mubarak whom we fund while Egyptians starve gets to ignore Egypt's Palestinian problems. As I'm sure you know, Palestinians are treated abysmally throughout the Middle East. Within Israel, they have rights, and only there, ironically. It is for that reason I suspect that when Clinton's plan seemed promising not a single Israeli Muslim--Not One--left Israel to join Yasir Arafat and his latest pre-teen blond boyfriend.

The exploitation of and corruption among the Palestinians is mind-boggling. This far, Israel has lost four times the number of people we lost in the WTC attack. Israel, however, has not killed hundreds of thousands as we have, in response.

The McCain-Palin business is of no consequence to Jewish-Americans, who always vote Democratic during presidential elections as a romp through the Times will show. And, frankly, it wouldn't matter if every single one of them voted for McCain. Jews and Muslims are together a minute portion of this population along with Hindus and others. The election will be determined by Christians.

Btw., increasing worry here and in Europe about your part of the world. How goes it?

Posted by: Farnaz | October 10, 2008 8:45 PM
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I won't say new to the landscape- but it hasn't been seen in 40 years-
The McPalin camp has ramped up the rhetoric to a frightening level- it has been non-stop accusations of Obama 'palling around with terrorists- ad campaigns-
Introductions to McPalin speeches- "Won't you be afraid to wake up on Nov.5th and find Barack HUSSEIN Obama in office?
They have lifted the rock of the underbelly of the american psyche, and all of the dormant worms of racism, fear of the 'other' and unnamed terrors have found it's focal point-
Crowds, pumped up by the hate speech passing as political rhetoric are screaming "TREASON! TRAITOR! TERRORIST! and- most frightening of all- "KILL HIM!!"
when (Palin in particular) is speaking about the suspicious associations of Obama-

McCain just asked an audience member who she thought Barack Obama was.
She stated, "An AYrab".

Mercy. ok gotta go- peace

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 10, 2008 7:46 PM
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I would

Posted by: william | October 10, 2008 7:32 PM
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There's been a cultural war waged in America for the last several years Jihadist-
as you stated before- you don't know alot about Palin and I don't know how these things play in other countries.
The right has been beating the drums of war in Iran for at least a solid 3 years- I am not going to insinuate that the US public is less intelligent than other countries- but that the propoganda machine is a great deal more sophisticated in marketing techniques.

Palin said, in her first public interview with Charles Gibson, that in a ncCain admin, "We would not second guess Israel's right to defend itself."
To state outright, that we would not question in any way- military action taken by Israel to it's neighbors, is a step no politicain has actually said (out loud at least) before.

Coupled with previous and numerous statements by the McPalin camp- that military and finiancial support for the State of Israel would be forthcoming, generous, and unconditional, as out "strongest ally"-

sent a dog whistle to Israel, whic was not unnoticed.
A week after that statement by Palin, Israel made a public declaration that it intended to make a "pre-emptive strike" against Iran, and it's timing depended upon who wo the presidential election in the USA.

This was followed a week later by a comprehensive package (and gift, of course) to Israel of an anti-missile alert system.

Jihadist stated-
"It would be a tragedy for the US to squander its resources in wars with dubious objectives and uncertain outcomes."

Of course it would be- and has been. But you underestimate the impact of AIPAC and the military industrial complex lobbies who benefit from these wars.

Our negelct of other issues has been so overwhelming- well- look at pur economy-
and N.Korea has expanded it's nuclear capability by 4x- and kicked inspectors pout tis week- demanding that the USA remove it from it's terrorist list- if the USA wanted it's inspectors back in to inspect.
And we have complied- despite our stated position of never negotiating with terrorists- we are negotiating, and if they are not terrorists- we can make any agreement, and they any demand- they see fit.

I could go on and on- but understand that some of the language is new to the american landscape, and is getting bumped up a bit in tone-

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 10, 2008 6:52 PM
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BANKRUPTING THE GOVERNMENT

There is no faster way to bankrupt the government than to buy stocks WITHOUT OWNERSHIP. We have a top guy in the financial market who is an IDIOT. Does he really understand what he is doing? Shortsellers can swallow those billions in seconds. It's tantamount to money transfer from government to shortsellers for free.

SACK HANK PAULSON!!! THIS GUY IS TERRIBLE!!

At least the Brits were buying stock and OWN THE COMPANY. This person is an IDIOT!!

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 10, 2008 6:50 PM
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kb: "During the debate Sarah spoke about protecting Israel from Iran."

Regarding Sarah Palin's expertise on foreign affairs, geopolitics and geography, if one simply look at the map and know where US military bases are in the neighbouring countries of Iran (even including in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia and especially in Iraq) one would see see how easy it for the US to retaliate if Iran even militarily threaten Israel. They still have no nukes, but the US and Israel do. And they have no birds in the sky to see every movement in Iran.

One also read about Israel every now and then threathening to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. If there is really one making nukes. And of course, the oft repeated quote or misquote from the President to push the "Zionist regime into the sea." We know that is impossible. Several Arab nations went to war with Israel and failed, including Egypt and Syria. So, Iran pushing Israel into the sea? There is Iraq to cross over with its airspace controlled by the US military..... Even if Hamas or Hezbollah do the dirty deed, there will hell to pay in Iran, even if Hamas and Hezbollah acted independently. So, what in the world is Palin talking about?

Besides, the current financial crisis is a bigger threat to Americans' wellbeing and place in the world as a superpower nation. Iran is no real threat, China and Russia are for global influence in this century and they are expanding their wings globally as both soft and hard powers. It would be a tragedy for the US to squander its resources in wars with dubious objectives and uncertain outcomes. The Iraq war is taking longer than WWII. One tend to think of the unfair parallel of the Soviet Union going under when it squandered its resources in the Afghan occupation.

Thank God most Americans can think wider and broader than Palin on domestic and international issues, what are the priorities, what are the real challenges.

I hope you disagree with what I wrote here, and that was my intention to find our way to something we can understand and agree.

A good weekend to you and yours

J

Posted by: Jihadist | October 10, 2008 6:23 PM
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Ban shortselling just even for 3 to 5 days (around the world) and let's see how the market behaves. LET'S GIVE SANITY A BREAK. I can't wait to see the market shoot straight up.

****

BAN SHORTSELLING !! (It's time Paulson be replaced coz he comes from an institution that's part of the problem)

The stock market is shooting downward. Naturally, everybody should be saddened. But NO, not everyone. Who are these people? Who are they who profit from this downturn. It's the SHORTSELLERS. The government should realize that shortselling DEFIES NATURAL SCIENCE. It is an ABNORMALITY. Nobody should be allowed to sell things that are not theirs.

THIS IS THE CANCER THAT IS PLAGUING the stock market. It defies science and anything that defies science is HARMFUL. We are now reaping the bad fruits which SHORTSELLING sowed.

When a house is burning, everybody should grieve. If you see somebody who's overjoyed, Im sure HE/SHE IS THE ARSONIST. Shortsellers are the only people who are overjoyed now.

For as long as the "arsonists" are at large, people's money are NOT safe. LOCK THEM (shortsellers) UP BEFORE MORE HOUSES WOULD BURN. For as long as they are around, our money will not be safe in the bank. LOCK THEM UP SOON OR THE FIRE WON'T STOP.

These bailouts cannot continue forever. These water hoses would soon dry up. Stop the fire from its source -- the SHORTSELLERS.

Posted by: spiderman2 | October 10, 2008 6:15 PM
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And Iceland is bankrupt.

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 10, 2008 6:09 PM
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Reuel stated-
"The middle name of McCain is "Sidney"
The midlle name of Palin is "Louse"

I just gotta say, Reuel, the Palindrone has a pretty lousy middle name.

Maybe all we ever needed was a megadose of liceaway-

I propose, as a patriotic american concerned with the financial welfare of our nation,
we all buy stock in this company.

http://www.licetreatmentcenter.net/

AMA - good question btw-

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 10, 2008 5:59 PM
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During the debate Sarah spoke about protecting Israel from Iran.
Which I agreed with 100%. Iran is a real and serious threat. How
could she reduce the dire situation in Iran and Korea by putting
the Castro brothers in that category(nuclear threat). The only answers I could come
up with is 1)She may Be thinking that the Castro brothers are #2 and #3
on the deck of cards behind UBL and they are somewhere in the Middle East or
2)Oops, Florida is a swing state lets play games with the Cubans and shore up the
vote Karl Rove style.

Posted by: kb | October 10, 2008 5:51 PM
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Rev. Wright was EXACTLY RIGHT!!! Now everyone is buzzing about what Barack believes. I say he should have defended Pastor because what he says is true. Just read some of these posts. White America is scared because a black man is going to run the country. Sorry white folks, your time of dominating the U.S. is gone. You have killed, raped, robbed, and demeaned blacks for too long, and now you're scared that the very thing you've done is coming back to haunt you. Now you know how it feels. Sorry, white folks, get over it, that's what you told us to do.

Posted by: Teresa | October 10, 2008 5:48 PM
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M. Schnarr asks "How long did it take Islam and their oil money to find a candidate for President of the United States?"

My question is "How long did it take [ExxonMobil and Chevron] and their oil money to find a candidate for President of the United States?"

Posted by: ama | October 10, 2008 5:48 PM
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US Debt Too Big for National Debt Clock

http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/10/us-debt-too-big.html

According to various distinguished sources including the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) in Basel, Switzerland -- the central bankers' bank -- the amount of outstanding derivatives worldwide as of December 2007 crossed USD 1.144 Quadrillion, ie, USD 1,144 Trillion

/frameset.php?pageid=http%3A//www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/press/280908.php

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 5:47 PM
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Athena4 and M. Schnarr,

It is true that OPEC do raise oil prices for any given reason, but mostly now to raising revenues for development projects as all the oil producing countries in the Middle East and other developing countries are too aware that oil is a depletable resource. Practically all are aware when their known oil and gas reserves will run out.

It is also true that oil companies, including American ones, apart from oil speculators, do profit by the raising of oil prices. And more so than the oil producing nations. But usually in the short term. One of the reasons given by oil companies that I find persuasive is that they need the profits to reinvest into exploration for more oil.

Oil concessions by governments, who increasingly want to have control of their oil resources, is getting rarer and do cost a bit. But easier if the governments do not have the financial and technological resources to exploit their oil resources. However, it is also true that quite a bit of the oil profits went into the pockets of the oil companies as, well, profits.

Unlike the oil companies and the oil speculators, the oil producing nations do lower prices at the behest of other nations and their own economists for various reasons. Among one simple reason, no point raising oil prices to unreasonable levels when the inflation creep of raised costs in consumer goods due to higher oil prices -- production, transportation back to the oil producing countries who are large importers of consumer goods. It is quite unsustainable.

So, Mr. Scharr posited that Obama is in the pocket of the Middle Eastern oil producing countries? I have yet to hear Obama or any other American presidential candidate say, "I am a good friend of (name one Middle Eastern country apart from Israel) during election times.

Come now. Even the Muslim world do not blink anymore when an American Presidential candidate says he is a good friend of Israel, and for this and that Middle Eastern country to be bombed. Do recall that Obama said to bomb Pakistan to flush out terrorists.

But I love Mr. M. Scharr's Muslim conspiracy theory to rule America and the world by proxy of a presidential candidate. As ridiculous as the conspiracy theory of Jews running Wall Street, the media, Hollywood, American politics and what have you....

And, of course, from the look of it, with religion so much a concern among candidates, one is wont to think that the American economy can now be fueled on the hot air of politicians. We have biofuel, we now have biopalin? God wills it just as the oil pipeline is God's will.

I am now almost forgiving of the idiocy of the Malaysian politicians in politics and managing the economy. At least, they never said the state of the economy is God's will, or what they are doing is part of God's plan.

Truth be told, I am now a wee worried about the candidates for the American presidential election in reading about what they said and think even here in On Faith. After all, what they decide domestically have such an impact globally as is apparent by the current financial crisis. And we are not even talking about their understanding on foreign affairs.....

Cheers
J

Posted by: Jihadist | October 10, 2008 5:30 PM
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Marc Edward:

Well, gosh, sir, why don't you just let it all hang out, and tell it like it really is.... (LOL!)

I admire your guts and agree with your stand. You might be a bit heavy-handed, but your opponents (and mine) don't seem to understand civil dialog.

Keep it up.

Posted by: Arminius | October 10, 2008 4:55 PM
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rebecca writes
"I hope that McCain and Palin don't stop talking about Ayers, Wright and the whole list."

I totally agree. It makes McCain and Palin look that much more clueless and out of touch. It is best if they keep behaving like out of control idiots. Bringing up "associations" when Palin SLEEPS with a TRAITOR is a great idea!

Kert writes
"MARCEDWARD,I suppose you feel justified calling everyone a liar."

I like calling liars "liar"

"Rev Wright has denounced capitalism as being racists and wrong many times"

Evidence? Yeah, I didn't think so - you're owned again rookie! Does it hurt when you're called out and you can't back up your BS? I'd certainly be embarrassed! Maybe humiliation is so common in your life you don't notice anymore.
here's a helpfl hint
"President Obama" - practice saying that, because you'll be saying it alot the next 8 years!
LOL

Posted by: Marc Edward | October 10, 2008 4:43 PM
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Palin also has a Pastor problem, the witch-hunter-banisher Murthee. Also praying in church for campaign funds and pipelines does seem to pervert the Christian ethic.

Posted by: catsmom | October 10, 2008 4:37 PM
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I hope that McCain and Palin don't stop talking about Ayers, Wright and the whole list. The media has protected Obama since the primaries and it scares me to see so many people mezmorized by him. You can't even talk to people anymore if you are against Obama because they get mad at anyone who says anything bad. There is something very cultish going on in this country. People are actually fighting with their own family members over Obama. Obama has done nothing in his life to deserve such high regard from ordinary Americans that have achieved so much more than he has. I can't imagine the power someone could have with so many people in a trance. McCain and Palin cannot win this unless they wake the voters up before it's too late. Palin is just trying to make people see that Obama is not the Messiah...he is just an inexperienced junior senator that has a lot of questionable friends.

Keep up the good work Gov. Palin!

Posted by: rebecca | October 10, 2008 4:35 PM
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It is not wrong for Gov. to question the integrity and judgement of a Presidential candidate.

Is the slanted journalist saying that Palin's "telling of the truth" is wrong" and their smearing of Palin is right.

The middle name of McCain is "Sidney"
The midlle name of Palin is "Louse"
Why is Obama not allowing people to include his middle name?

Come on.
The constitution guarantees free speech. The constitution guaranties right to possess fire-arms. The constitution is pro-life.

Why elect Obama, if his taking of the President's oath is just going to be a mockery of the US constitution he is not going to defend and keep?

Voters should defend the attack on the constitution by Obama and the liberal press by
supporting
McCain-Palin 08

Posted by: Reuel | October 10, 2008 4:05 PM
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MARCEDWARD,

I suppose you feel justified calling everyone a liar. Understand it doesn't give you any credibility among others. I at least understand that people can honestly disagree about a topic and not lie.

Rev Wright has denounced capitalism as being racists and wrong many times. He has promotted policies that involve taking money from those who earned it to those who haven't to even out wealth. This is Socialism. I don't have time to support an idea that is obvious. You will simply have to look at any number of evidence yourself. You are welcome to post evidence to the contrary if you can find it.

Posted by: Kert | October 10, 2008 3:38 PM
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Sarah has her own worries right now- The Ethics Committee in Alaska is holding their hearings as we speak.
While she promised in her campaign platform to get elected as Governor (quote)“open the door wide to transparent and accountable government.”
she has disappointed her constituents by the lack of transparency in her repsonse to subpoenas.

Usually, candidates have to have actually gotten into the POTUS office before they ignore subpoenas-
Think of Cheney and his redefinition of the VP office- both executive AND legislative{No- it is executive.period.} and hence, non-existent!
How can you subpoepna a non-existent person?

Why did Cheney go through such circuitous reasonings? He was charged with...ethics violations.

Did Sarah Palin abuse her power as Gov of Alaska?

The bi-partisan committee of legislators had her promised co-operation in the investigation, but that co-operation has evaporated since her nomination as VP-

Isn't the response of an honest person who has is innocent of charges ususally to pursue enthusisatically their own defense?

Do innocent people run from the opportunity to clear their name and reputation?

The charge of abuse of power and questionable ethics is not ,"Did you sit on the same board as a former domestic terrorist turned social organizer which was headed by the staunchly republican Annenberg Corporation."

The charge of abuse of power is not,"Did you sit in the pews of a controversial Pastor for 20 years?"

The charge of abuse of power and shady ethics practices is a serious indication of the kind of person we are willing to entrust as the leader of the Senate, and the future of America.


The question is not, are you known by the company you keep?- but what actions and integrity did you display when you were serving the public interest?

Posted by: VICTORIA | October 10, 2008 3:18 PM
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Life begins at conception.

No abortion (including in rape and incest cases) unless it is necessary to save the life of the mother.

Abstinence only.

Our war crimes and genocide in Iraq are God’s will.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 2:58 PM
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DEMISE OF AMERICA

http://english.pravda.ru/topic/America-120/

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 2:53 PM
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Wow!!! A Post pundit criticizing Palin!

Stop the presses!

Obama better win. The media have handed him this thing on a silver platter.

Posted by: Rob Morrow | October 10, 2008 2:24 PM
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Obviously M. Schnarr missed the photo of GWB holding hands with Prince Fahd of Saudi Arabia from a few years ago. Wake up and smell the petroleum - George Bush is more in the pocket of the Saudis than Barack Obama EVER will be (despite his foreign name). This whole rollercoaster year started when oil market speculators jacked up the price of crude oil this spring. Obama and a bunch of other people warned about speculation, but McCain said that he was wrong. Guess what? The Energy Department now blames the oil price spike on... speculators.

Socialism? Let the free market do it's work? Look, the Government is taking over banks! THAT IS SOCIALISM. And hey, if the free market is working for you right now, good for you. I'll just take what's left of my retirement and put it under the mattress, thankyouverymuch. It was the people that deregulated the financial industry - including John McCain - who got us into this mess.

People called FDR a socialist and the New Deal socialism back in the 1930's. Seems like we need a little bit more of that right about now.

Posted by: Athena4 | October 10, 2008 2:21 PM
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How long did it take Islam and their oil money to
find a candidate for President of the United States ? As long as it took
them to place a Senator from Illinois and Minnesota ? The same amount of
time to create a large Muslim enclave in Detroit ? The time it took them
to build over 2,000 mosques in America ? The same amount of time
required to place radical wahabbist20clerics in our military and prisons
as 'chaplains'?

Find a candidate who can get away with lying
about their father being a 'freedom fighter' when he was actually part
of the most corrupt and violent government in Kenya 's history. Find a
candidate with close ties to The Nation of Islam and the violent Muslim
overthrow in Africa , a candidate who is educated among white infidel
Americans but hides his bitterness and anger behind a superficial toothy
smile. Find a candidate who changes his American name of Barry to the
Muslim name of Barak Hussein Obama, and dares anyone to question his
true ties under the banner of 'racism'. Nurture this candidate in an
atmosphere of anti-white American teaching and surround him with Islamic
teachers. Provide him with a bitter, racist, anti-white, anti-American
wife, and supply him with Muslim middle east connections and Islamic
monies. Allow him to be clever enough to get away with his anti-white
rhetoric and proclaim he will give
$834 billion taxpayer dollars to the Muslim controlled United N ations
for use in Africa .

Posted by: M Schnarr | October 10, 2008 2:10 PM
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Questioning a man's pastor? Dumb. How about Palin having her witches cast out in the Wasilla Pentecostal Church? (It's on YouTube.)
Palin apparently learned to speak total nonsense by speaking in tongues in church.
How about the video of Palin in Church calling the Iraq fiasco a mission from God?
Seriously, if Republicans want to use religion for a smear, bring it on. Me, I smell flop sweat from the GOP stage.

Posted by: GW | October 10, 2008 2:08 PM
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How embarrassing for McCain that most of his supporters are liars and/or ignorant racists.

Will Dugan writes
"The relationship between Wright and Obama was not merely about a candidate seeking an endorsement."

Obama never sought Wright's endorsement while McCain sought the endorsement of an anti-Catholic Bigot. Palin attended church with antisemites who prolcaim that God punishes Jews using Palestinian bombers. You got nothing!

Kert writes "Of course Rev Wright matters. He promoted socialist policies to Obama for 20 years."

Please list these social policies and your source that they were promoted by Wright while Obama was in church.
Oh, or is it you're a liar?

CannonRay writes
"Its not about Rev. Wright. Its about Black Liberation Theology"

You don't know what BLT is - you are a parrot, and a rather ignorant dishonest parrot.

Women for Palin writes
"There were some Jews in Germany who thought Hitler was their savior."

Wrong - are you an idiot or liar?

C Nelson writes
"Well, some folks think the Wright issue should indeed be "brought up again." In fact, some think it never should have gone away."

Yeah - people who know McCain has nothing to run on. Sorry baby, but there was nothing there. Better luck next time.

Scott writes "You are judged by the friends you keep."

Yep and Sarah Palin sleeps with a traitor to the USA.

"Obama will be juged by Wright, Ayers, et al. Obama is a radical in sheep's clothing and America has realized it. Now if only the pollsters would give a true sampling of America in their polls. Notice how they are tightening as we get closer, They will tighten even more!"

Actually Obama's lead has been steadily growing. For a long time Obama led in national polls, but lagged in "polls of likely voters" where McCain usually led. Now Obama consistantly leads in "polls of likely voters".
You are so wrong it's funny.

WdeR writes "Nevertheless, we should remember that Senator Obama has willingly associated with those who have expressed hatred for and a desire to do violence to America. "

Ayers violence was when Obama was 8, and as far as I know Obama and Ayers aren't in any way close or friends. Wright served his country in uniform, so I have no problem when he complains how our country has gone off track.
If you were honest you'd point out that it's Palin who is married to a man who hates the USA.

Posted by: Marc Edward | October 10, 2008 2:08 PM
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Ah well. Palin can afford to waste $22 million on an unused hockey rink while people and countries lose millions and billions.

Let them eat the hockey rink.

J - member of WIPE (Women Insistently Against Palin's Expenditure)

Posted by: Jihadist | October 10, 2008 1:45 PM
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President McPalin? Nope, don't think so.

At least 51% of American voters are not that stupid three times in a row.....we hope.

It does begin to look like Obama has it in the bag, despite the usual GOP voter fraud, tampering, etc. They really leave no stone unturned, do they?

Bulldog Palin just bit her own self right square in the booty.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 1:41 PM
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Mr. McCain is losing the election and it may be landslide victory for Senator Obama.
At the same time McCain is shaming himself and the Republican party. Our economy is tumbling and had the worse stock drop (7%) yesterday as McCain and Palin mouthed obscenities and lies. Palin, a born again evangelical Christian invoked the dark spirits of human nature and mob mentality with lies, fear, hate, and merged it with the darker hatred and prejudice. I'm sorry there are no excuses for this behavior. They both have shown their horns and tails and their priorities.

Mr. Obama and Mr. Biden have over 10% lead with the citizen vote right now by polls and have greater than 60% lead in the electoral college vote. For the people posting here that Senator Obama is going into the White House with lies and through the backdoor are just deluded. We are voting for Senator Obama as a vote of affirmation for ourselves and our country. He is winning and is being cheered by most Americans and the world. That is hardly a back door.

It is the McCain campaign of hate, contempt and lies that takes the low road and tries to take a backdoor of dark spirits to the White House. Mr. McCain is not a man of integrity. He has cynically picked a neophyte shallow and poorly educated woman as his VP. Being 72yrs old and not in great health, this is irresponsible and doesn't take our country first. His history of myth building and opportunism and self-egrandizement is in the record. To end his career in such dirt is sad.

Posted by: lucy2008 | October 10, 2008 1:36 PM
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The relationship between Wright and Obama was not merely about a candidate seeking an endorsement. It was a close twenty year relationship and friendship with an obvious racist that Obama chose to end when it threatened his political appeal.

Posted by: Will Dugan | October 10, 2008 1:33 PM
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Of course Rev Wright matters. He promoted socialist policies to Obama for 20 years. Now Obama may implement them in Washington. Our values and morals affect Wall Street.

The truth is we need politicians that are willing to stand out of the way and let capitalism work. There are some changes that need to be made but they aren't buying up the private sector. This is called socialism. We are headed right toward the Soviet Union.

I'm actually more concerned with Obama's association with ACORN than with Wright. Of course they both support government controling everything. Well, not our government. The new government that Obama forms. Just scarry, if you ask me. We need to know as much about these relationships as we can find and how they affect Obama.

Keep talking about the issues Palin. They matter.

Posted by: Kert | October 10, 2008 1:32 PM
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Roarks -

Excellent post, 12 points outta 10 being best. Required reading for anyone with more than a few neurons to string together. You quite rightly pointed out two important things: one, the situation is not binary, not black and white, not subject to an either-or mentality, but fraught with gray areas and complexity; and two, that what we need is a leader who is calm, confident, willing to compromise, willing to THINK and get advice from all sides, willing to give the hand of friendship not just across the aisle but across the world.

Thank you.

Posted by: Arminius | October 10, 2008 1:11 PM
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Women for Palin" Jews who support Obama are not going to be amused when you insult their intelligence in your eagerness to support the McCain-Palin team.

Think up something positive to say about the team you support instead of inventing lies about Obama.

Posted by: Anonymous
--------------------
Anonymous, these people cannot say anything positive about McCain-Palin because there is NOTHING positive to say about them. McCain-Palin have descended to the depths of hell with their inciting mob behavior, condoning it, and promoting it!! There is NOTHING positive about the McCain-Palin candidacy. My gosh, if they can create all this evil as candidates, what kind of even more evil would they create as our leaders?? Think about it, fellow Americans.

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 1:06 PM
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I have been seeing more in the "leftist" media about Obama's associations with nefarious characters than about McCain and Palin's. The "First Dude" was a member of the extremist secessionist Alaskan Independence Party until 2002 and probably only left it to save his wife from being connected to it. She gave a supportive speech before their convention this year! She also was blessed by a witch doctor, for heaven's sakes and now believes it is God's plan that she will one day be the President. I will not presume to speak for God, but it is a scary thing to think of a woman who is hatemongering and stirring up crowds at rallies to say "Kill him," and "Terrorist," being at the helm of our country one day. How can she possibly call herself a Christian with this behavior! And, McCain is no better. What happened to his former persona - why has he sunk so low? Our reputation in the rest of the world is at an all time low and many of us want to put these 2 in office? What are we thinking.....

Posted by: Sara | October 10, 2008 1:01 PM
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+1 for all those unreadable bricks of text.

Posted by: nadir | October 10, 2008 12:54 PM
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I know there are many decent, intelligent Republicans out there, and those are the ones that should be ashamed of the recent hostilities at the McCain/Palin rallies. As one commenter here has said, it did remind me also of a bunch of hyenas fighting for food. Your great Republican party has been overrun by crazies, and you need to fight for your good name back! For Christians supporting McCain - please remember everything you've learned as a Christian, and watch those rallies of hate, and ask yourself if those are truly Christian ways!

Posted by: John R. | October 10, 2008 12:46 PM
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Its not about Rev. Wright. Its about Black Liberation Theology. A bit more about Black Liberation Theology which Obama followed for 20 years from its founder, James Cone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology

"Whether the American system is beyond redemption we will have to wait and see. But we can be certain that black patience has run out, and unless white America responds positively to the theory and activity of Black Power, then a bloody, protracted civil war is inevitable." [Black Theology and Black Power, Page 143] [11]

"The revolution which Black Theology advocates … [means] confronting white racists and saying: 'If it's a fight you want, I am prepared to oblige you.' This is what the black revolution means." [Black Theology and Black Power, Page 136] [12]

"Black Power seeks not understanding but conflict; addresses blacks and not whites; seeks to develop black support, but not white good will." [Black Theology and Black Power, Page 16] [13]

Posted by: CannonRay | October 10, 2008 12:41 PM
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"We need to know him."

How many of you "know" John McCain?
How many of you "know" Sarah Palin?
How many of you "know" Joe Biden?

That's right, most of us don't know these people either. Are you friends with any of them? Do you see them out of the publics eye? Have you ever been to their homes? Ate dinne, watched TV, talked to them about every day life, etc?

The truth is, the majority of us, don't "know" any of these people running for office. You think you know John McCain? Why is he a completely different character than the John McCain that ran in 2000? Don't pretend like you know any of these people, you just make yourself look foolish.

Posted by: Jack | October 10, 2008 12:40 PM
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Women for Palin" Jews who support Obama are not going to be amused when you insult their intelligence in your eagerness to support the McCain-Palin team.

Think up something positive to say about the team you support instead of inventing lies about Obama.

Posted by: Anonymous
--------------------
Anonymous, these people cannot say anything positive about McCain-Palin because there is NOTHING positive to say about them. McCain-Palin have descended to the depths of hell with their inciting mob behavior, condoning it, and promoting it!! There is NOTHING positive about the McCain-Palin candidacy. My gosh, if they can create all this evil as candidates, what kind of even more evil would they create as our leaders?? Think about it, fellow Americans.

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 12:36 PM
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I suppose all these McCain-Palin supporters only mingled with SINLESS people and they are SINLESS themselves?? As Jesus said, "those without SIN, cast the first stone"; interestingly everybody in that mob walked away without a word and WITHOUT casting the first stone. I liken this mob-like supporters to this scene in the Bible. Who of you is the image of perfection? All of us, and I mean ALL of us have mingled with drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc., at one time or another in our lives. Does that make us drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc.? Does that make us believers to become such people? The MOBS in the McCain-Palin rallies are shouting, "terrorist", "traitor", "kill him", and other horrible proclamations! McCain and Pilan are inciting and promoting their mobs to act like this and I find their actions and comments downright dispicable!! The rest of America should too!! At this moment in time I am NOT proud of what McCain-Palin are inciting and promoting, in fact I am ashamed that those Americans in those rallies respond with such hatred and hyena-like behavior. We can all thank McCain-Palin for inciting, condoning, and promoting such dispicable behavior as they are dispicable themselves. The ONLY good thing about all of this is that McCain and Palin are demonstrating just how EVIL, HATEFUL, and HYPOCRITCAL THEY REALLY ARE. May God bless and protect America in his infinite wisdom from the evils and hatred being incited, condoned, and promoted by these two evil mob-promoting less than Americans.

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 12:31 PM
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While Americans are praying over their retirement funds, Palin wants to talk more about Obama's ex-pastor.
------------------
Its not about his pastor -- its about what he believes. Black Liberation Theology is based on Latin American Marxism and the Black Power Movement. That's what Obama followed for 20 years. This has alot to say about Obama's worldview -- both racial, economic and political. That too is a fact.

I suppose if a Republican had attended a church preaching White Liberation Theology -- that revolves around neo-Nazi political thought -- it would be off-limits? Really?

Posted by: CannonRay | October 10, 2008 12:28 PM
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What is the Christian faith that Obama follows? Its Black Liberation Theology:

"The Rev. Jeremiah Wright was introduced to black liberation theology at University of Chicago's Divinity School. Wright would cite the works of James Cone and Dwight Hopkins who are considered the leading theologians of this system of belief, although now there are many scholars who have contributed a great deal to the field. Wright built up Trinity United Church of Christ with a vision statement based on the theology laid out by James Cone[2][3] Asked in an interview which church most embodied his message, Cone replied "I would point to that church (Trinity) first. [4] Short clips of Wright's sermons which called for God to condemn America for its actions and credited the government for creating the AIDS virus would receive heavy criticism and became a major topic of presidential debates.

Wright claimed that criticism of his theology constituted an attack on the black church, although probably no more than a quarter of black pastors today would describe their theology as liberationist[5]. Trinity United Church of Christ is one of the few that specifically incorporates black liberation theology into its vision statement"

Why hasn't the media reported as aggressively on this as they did on Romney's faith? Why? What is Black Liberation Theology. Here's a clue from its founder, James Cone:

"The black theologian must reject any conception of God which stifles black self-determination by picturing God as a God of all peoples. Either God is identified with the oppressed to the point that their experience becomes God's experience, or God is a God of racism...The blackness of God means that God has made the oppressed condition God's own condition. This is the essence of the Biblical revelation. By electing Israelite slaves as the people of God and by becoming the Oppressed One in Jesus Christ, the human race is made to understand that God is known where human beings experience humiliation and suffering...Liberation is not an afterthought, but the very essence of divine activity." [A Black Theology of Liberation, pp. 63-64]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology

Posted by: CannonRay | October 10, 2008 12:23 PM
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I suppose all these McCain-Palin supporters only mingled with SINLESS people and they are SINLESS themselves?? As Jesus said, "those without SIN, cast the first stone"; interestingly everybody in that mob walked away without a word and WITHOUT casting the first stone. I liken this mob-like supporters to this scene in the Bible. Who of you is the image of perfection? All of us, and I mean ALL of us have mingled with drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc., at one time or another in our lives. Does that make us drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc.? Does that make us believers to become such people? The MOBS in the McCain-Palin rallies are shouting, "terrorist", "traitor", "kill him", and other horrible proclamations! McCain and Pilan are inciting and promoting their mobs to act like this and I find their actions and comments downright dispicable!! The rest of America should too!! At this moment in time I am NOT proud of what McCain-Palin are inciting and promoting, in fact I am ashamed that those Americans in those rallies respond with such hatred and hyena-like behavior. We can all thank McCain-Palin for inciting, condoning, and promoting such dispicable behavior as they are dispicable themselves. The ONLY good thing about all of this is that McCain and Palin are demonstrating just how EVIL, HATEFUL, and HYPOCRITCAL THEY REALLY ARE. May God bless and protect America in his infinite wisdom from the evils and hatred being incited, condoned, and promoted by these two evil mob-promoting less than Americans.

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 12:21 PM
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Wright is not off limists because Osama has not really helped us understand who he is. The same with Ayres and Khalidy and all his other questionable relationships. All he does when asked about those people........he just goes tho his politacal dance and says, "there McCain goes again trying to cause problems."
Obama osama needs to let us know who he is. We are all scared of him because he has never done anything as leader of any city, county, state or government. Who is this guy, anyway.
Lee Park

Posted by: Lee Park | October 10, 2008 12:21 PM
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You might also consider Palin's own ultra-fundamentalist church.

Posted by: Hi | October 10, 2008 12:20 PM
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I suppose all these McCain-Palin supporters only mingled with SINLESS people and they are SINLESS themselves?? As Jesus said, "those without SIN, cast the first stone"; interestingly everybody in that mob walked away without a word and WITHOUT casting the first stone. I liken this mob-like supporters to this scene in the Bible. Who of you is the image of perfection? All of us, and I mean ALL of us have mingled with drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc., at one time or another in our lives. Does that make us drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc.? Does that make us believers to become such people? The MOBS in the McCain-Palin rallies are shouting, "terrorist", "traitor", "kill him", and other horrible proclamations! McCain and Pilan are inciting and promoting their mobs to act like this and I find their actions and comments downright dispicable!! The rest of America should too!! At this moment in time I am NOT proud of what McCain-Palin are inciting and promoting, in fact I am ashamed that those Americans in those rallies respond with such hatred and hyena-like behavior. We can all thank McCain-Palin for inciting, condoning, and promoting such dispicable behavior as they are dispicable themselves. The ONLY good thing about all of this is that McCain and Palin are demonstrating just how EVIL, HATEFUL, and HYPOCRITCAL THEY REALLY ARE. May God bless and protect America in his infinite wisdom from the evils and hatred being incited, condoned, and promoted by these two evil mob-promoting less than Americans.

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 12:20 PM
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My fellow Americans, I hope to assist all in understanding Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Mr. Ayres in an effort to eliminate fears and acuusations of Obama being portrayed as anti-American. Please understand that all radicals are a product of their time. Rev.Wright came of age before and during the civil rights era. A time of mass disrimination and racism in America. Most likely he either heard first hand accounts about or, may have personally witnessed lynching and unjust police brutality, among other atrocities against black Americans. The GD sermon he preached on any given Sunday, may have been the result from the dragging death of James Byrd Jr., in Jasper, Texas by two racist and a man too afraid to stand up against immorality and injustice. In other words, there was a reason for Rev. Wright to spew anti-Americanism from the pulpit and in his need to get hurt and pain off his chest, he turned injustice into a passionate, and spiritually infused cry for justice. Was it right? Let's just say, for every cause, there is an effect. As for Mr. Ayres. He too is a produt of his past. He believed the Vietnam War to be unjust and he lashed out in a unjust way to get the hurt and pain off his chest too. Think about this, if he were a dangerous terrorist and a threat to the nation, would he be a Professor in an American institution of higher learning, where he is helping college students shape their thoughts, ideals and opinions? My fellow Americans, we are too intelligent not to understand each other and it is in light of this intellegence that we can see through words and accusations that stir up fear, anger and resentment. I'm sure that Todd and Sarah Palin have a logical explaination for supporting the seccession of Alaska from the United States. None of these actions are a green light for getting things off your chest, they are only examples of Americans trying to live freely.
Peace.

Posted by: Shantelle S. | October 10, 2008 12:20 PM
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Roy: "Because Palin has been exorcised by Rev Muthee". Well, looks like he failed in that venue. He should have tried exhorcising her of the devil! But, then, again, he would have failed in that venue as well. Palin is the the devil himself in human form.

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 12:19 PM
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WfP: Calm down, sweetie. Wisteria Lane is still recovering from that tornado; they don't need more bluster and rage.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 12:13 PM
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"The punditry got to familiarize themselves with the ideological stylings of Reverend Wright for something like two glorious, byline-rich months and can never be accused of having swept it under the rug. Either the GOP delivers fresh fulminations or journalists go back to filing stories about, like, foreclosures and stuff."

It was never about Rev. Wright. Rev Wright merely built a church on the ideology of Black Liberation Theology. The media never educated Americans on what this faith believes -- and they swept it under the rug. Indeed, Black Liberation Theology diverges much more with mainstream Christianity than -- let's say -- Mormonism, which the media pushed for Romney to explain. They have not had the same standard with Obama. Its odd really. Obama followed a faith that had its roots in Latin American Marxism (Liberation Theology) and the Black Power Movement. Rev. Wright pointed this out to the media -- and they ignored it. Obama's church made no secret that they followed Black Liberation Theology based on the works of James Cone. Obama had to know he was attending a church that was built around this ideology for 20 years.

What is Black Liberation Theology and what does it teach? How would this worldview guide the President of the United States? If the worldview is political in nature, does this not have relevance to the American people in a political campaign? These are the questions the media has lacked the will, intellectual courage or integrity to pursue. I guess advocating for Obama is more important than those things for "journalists". Anyhow, here a wikipedia page on Black Liberation Theology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology

Posted by: CannonRay | October 10, 2008 12:11 PM
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I suppose all these McCain-Palin supporters only mingled with SINLESS people and they are SINLESS themselves?? As Jesus said, "those without SIN, cast the first stone"; interestingly everybody in that mob walked away without a word and WITHOUT casting the first stone. I liken this mob-like supporters to this scene in the Bible. Who of you is the image of perfection? All of us, and I mean ALL of us have mingled with drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc., at one time or another in our lives. Does that make us drug addicts, murderers, wife beaters, etc.? Does that make us believers to become such people? The MOBS in the McCain-Palin rallies are shouting, "terrorist", "traitor", "kill him", and other horrible proclamations! McCain and Pilan are inciting and promoting their mobs to act like this and I find their actions and comments downright dispicable!! The rest of America should too!! At this moment in time I am NOT proud of what McCain-Palin are inciting and promoting, in fact I am ashamed that those Americans in those rallies respond with such hatred and hyena-like behavior. We can all thank McCain-Palin for inciting, condoning, and promoting such dispicable behavior as they are dispicable themselves. The ONLY good thing about all of this is that McCain and Palin are demonstrating just how EVIL, HATEFUL, and HYPOCRITCAL THEY REALLY ARE. May God bless and protect America in his infinite wisdom from the evils and hatred being incited, condoned, and promoted by these two evil mob-promoting less than Americans.

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 12:08 PM
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there not wrong ABOUT bringING up THE TRUTH wright, ayers, ACORN. It time for the truth about obaMA

Posted by: jake | October 10, 2008 12:05 PM
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And when the fear growns
You'll reap the harvest you have sown

...So have a good drown
As you go down
All alone
Dragged down by the stone

-from 'Dogs' by Pink Floyd

---Dedicated to John McCain and the rest of the GOP liars and murderers

Posted by: istandan | October 10, 2008 12:05 PM
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Women for Palin:

Now, now, just calm down... some nice people are coming to help you. They will give you a nice shot to help you to sleep, and you will wake up in a nice, soft room, and be given nice, soft food to eat. And America will be the better for it.

Posted by: Arminius | October 10, 2008 12:04 PM
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So... how long was Obama in Wright's church, anyway? I keep searching everywhere, but I cannot seem to find an approximate number of years.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 12:04 PM
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Wow. Never thought I'd see the day when a born-again Christian, public office holder, praying in a Pentacostal church for "abundance" like industrial infrastructure (i.e., dear God, please give me what I want) would be taken seriously as a candidate for high public office. I'm very fiscally conservative and very socially liberal, but I could never imagine myself in the insane asylum that has become the right wing.

Posted by: Jason | October 10, 2008 12:02 PM
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Number 1: Americans do not want to only here about the economic crisis. Just because voters are disstracted by the economy doesn't mean that Obama should be able to slip in the back door of the white house. People still need to know who they are voting for, and need to know who our presidential candidates are in bed with. If this isnt important to the American public, then character flaws mean nothing in the election of an American President.
Number 2: The reason the media is bored with the whole issue of Rev. Wright, and Bill Ayers, and Resko, is becasue they are all pulling for Obama and dont want all this bad information about him to reach the mainstream media and stick. Had McCain had ties to such radicals, you wouldn't be able to turn on a TV, or open a newspaper without hearing about it.
Number 3: Negative ad running is part of politics. Democrats and Republicans, when down in the polls always turn to negative ad running. In this case Obama is leading and running negative ad's which have no factual truth to them whatsoever. You dont hear about them becasue they are passed off as truth and kept to a hush in the media. McCains ads are all based on factual evidence that is repetedly blocked by mainstream media, and passed off as falsehoods without investigation.
Number 4: The new argument is that McCains new plan to buy up bad mortgages to allow homeowners to renagotiate there loans, is going to cost tax payers billions and bailout greedy lenders. The truth is that it will actually bail out greedy undeserving homeowners who lied about there incomes and took on loans they could not repay which is something the liberal socialists of our country should love. So in essence Obama should love this idea, but instead he is insisting this will bail out wall street. The solution to this problem is going to bail out someone and the argument is who it will be. Lets see which court the ball ends up in. If Obama truly was for the middle class he would agree with McCains plan becasue it helps out the lower middle class people who took out the huge loans they couldnt afford.
The bottom line is that Obama has no experience other than being able to look presidential, and talk in round about fashions. Which means he passed logic theory and practice class in college. He is vague, and transparent, and the fact that he has as much support as he does tells us a lot about the power of an image in America, even if that image is a smoke screen. God willing McCain supporters will overcome Obama supporters in the election, even with the voter fraud crap that is going on in our swing states. Otherwise we are in for a rude awakening come next presedential term. But on the upside atleast Republicans will be able to say I told you so If Obama wins.

Posted by: William P. | October 10, 2008 11:56 AM
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Wright speeches were full of antisemitic hate vitriol. Wright was never a christian and I hesitate to call him Reverend.

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:38 AM
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"Women for Palin" you have already lost all your credibility as a blogger by writing outright lies about Obama - his name and his religion.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:37 AM
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Roarks: Usually I don't read posts that long, but I'm glad I did. That was excellent. I'm glad there are people out there that still think logically and haven't been brainwashed by this rabid pit bull and her geriatric handler.

Posted by: Randy | October 10, 2008 11:37 AM
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"Women for Palin" nobody in their right mind could accuse Obama for having close association with a Christian pastor and be a Muslim at the same time.

Come on, no need to give up your reasoning powers in the name of political support for McCain-Palin.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:35 AM
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Jacques Berlinerblau is in the tank for Hussein Muhammad Obama.

I don't trust the liberal left-wing media and when John McCain is elected President the liberal elite media will lose all credibility.

Have faith. Go out and vote for John McCain and make sure that no muslim antisemitic person is put in the White House.

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:34 AM
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Wow, Jacques Berlinerblau just doesn't get it does he.

What is it about the fact that you and, it seems, no one else really knows this guy, that doesn't bother you? Maybe you have some kind of direct link to the Almighty so that you can see what everyone else can't see. As far as I'm concerned, this guy, BHO, is not only an unknown entity but his record speaks for itself, meaning there is no record for him to speak from. So what are we to work with? Only his past associations and the things that appear to make him what he is today.

If someone was a street drug dealer and then wanted to be President, you'd scream that his judgement wasn't sound. Well it certainly appears that BHO has pretty much that level of an impared judgement, especially in light of his associations with Wright, Ayers and others.

Wake up Jacques Berlinerblau, the end of this country is at hand if BHO is elected, and if that happens, you can take great pride in knowing that you were a part of that failure.

Posted by: R | October 10, 2008 11:29 AM
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Voters are never going to put a muslim man in the White House.

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:28 AM
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"Women for Palin" Jews who support Obama are not going to be amused when you insult their intelligence in your eagerness to support the McCain-Palin team.

Think up something positive to say about the team you support instead of inventing lies about Obama.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:27 AM
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The times are too serious to be pulling cheap dirty tricks like this. At home, we've got a heightening economic crisis, increasing joblessness threatening to undermine the livelihoods of entire towns, people's retirement savings decimated, folks getting thrown out of their homes, and a regulatory framework guided by ideology rather than pragmatism. Overseas, we're fighting two wars, an increasingly belligerent Iran, a resurgent Russia eager to reassert it's influence on the former soviet bloc, ukraine destabilized, China rising, and North Korea unresolved, our alliances strained due to our unilateralim...and here we have John McCain playing these dirty totally irrelevant political games, inciting hate in the electorate, destabilizing the markets with his political maneuvers, appointing an extremist running mate who knows NOTHING about the economy and the world a 72-year old heartbeat away from presidency, and dividing the country along choices (guns, race, abortion, religion, left-right) that are totally irrelevant to this new and very threatening environment, and having absolutely no solid plans to get us out of it. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I cannot believe that John McCain is STILL not interested in challenging Obama's plans, and presenting to the American public why his plans are PRACTICALLY superior or relevant to the current environment, or how his approach is a significantly different approach to the failures of the last 8 years. His healthcare plan is a farce taxing health benefits to give me a healthcare tax credit which will not buy my a good healthcare plan, his tax plan is unsustainable, he has absolutely no solid ideas for our recovery plans, and absolutely no transition plan for when he assumes power, and shows the underlying influence of special interests in his policy making and his past judgement, and his foreign policy positions have been PROVEN wrong consistently, with his war mongering rhetoric getting increasingly aggressive...and NOW THIS???!!! YOU CAN HIRE EXPERIENCE, AND YOU CAN BUY KNOWLEDGE, IF YOUR MORAL COMPASS IS MISALIGNED YOUR EXPERIENCE IS OF NO USE TO US. It infuriates me the absurdity that this once great man has stooped to. Is he THIS out of touch with reality? We need a serious president, with a steady and even temperament, who is willing to listen to EVERYONE and come up with solutions that work for ALL OF US. We need a president who has the intellect, and the moral compass pointing true north to our interests, who helps the nation focus on what we have in common, not why we are different...we need a president who understands that issues should lie at the foundation of political attacks, not baseless associations focused on dominating the next news cycle. We need someone whose inner circle of influence is not tainted by special interests and lobbists, who has the highest probability of reforming Washington. We need someone who understands the new world order, and who understands that war is but ONE tactic, along with intelligence, diplomatic and economic leverage in our overall strategy to counter our foreign policy challenges today. We need a president who is a calming voice in this cacophony of chaos, who calls out to the best within all of us to lead us out of this hole we've dug ourselves into. We need a President who is a pragmatist, who has been consistent, with judgment that is guided by good nature rather than a thirst for power. We need someone with new ideas, and a new approach to change our course in history. ENOUGH WITH THIS PETTY HATE MONGERING, THE TIMES ARE TOO SERIOUS FOR THIS KIND OF NONSENSE. I DON'T CARE IF HE IS BLACK BLUE OR PURPLE, AND I DONT CARE IF HE IS PRO OR ANTI ABORTION, OR LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE...I JUST CARE THAT HE IS RIGHT FOR THE CHALLENGES WE NOW FACE. The republican voter suppression and caging efforts of 2004 and 2000 are very much underway and already making huge impacts across all the swing states, and the campaigning is only going to get more hateful. PLEASE AMERICA, WE HAVE TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

Posted by: roarks, Cleveland, Ohio | October 10, 2008 11:26 AM
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"Women for Palin": Yeah, too bad the Vice President doesn't live or work in the White House. I guess I can't expect you to know that when your bright little "pit bull" didn't.

Posted by: Randy | October 10, 2008 11:25 AM
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With about three weeks before the elections, Republicans are damn sure that John McCain will be the next President. Dimwit liberals have got to get use to saying President McCain.

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:24 AM
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"Women for Palin" getting more and more desperate, aren't you?

The name is Barack Hussein Obama (Jr). He was named as his Kenyan Muslim father, who left his mother when he was only two years old. Obama saw him only once since then. His father lived in Kenya and died there many years ago.

Rev Wright, a Christian, was his pastor for twenty years. HBO was an atheist like his mother until he converted to Christianity.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:22 AM
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There were some Jews in Germany who thought Hitler was their savior. Nothing has changed. Some foolish Jews never learn from history and will repeat the same mistakes.

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:21 AM
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Its a shame Mccain ignores loss of jobs
Its a shame Mccain ignores economic crisis
Its a shame Mccain refuse to bring back lost jobs
Its a shame Mccain doesn't want to end war

Its a disgrace the way Mccain is running his campaign

It is shammeful to even call him a hero.

Mccain is no hero.
Mccain is no maverick.
Mccain is a disgrace to American politics

Posted by: tony | October 10, 2008 11:21 AM
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Yeah... RISKY, SCARY, TERRORIST, BOMBS, DANGEROUS. I have an idea, why don't you desperate republicans just Photoshop Obama's picture so he's in a cave with an AK47 and wearing a turban on his head. I'm sure your fear mongering would be much more effective.

Posted by: Randy | October 10, 2008 11:21 AM
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Why are all these dimwit left-wing liberals sounding so desperate if the liberal elite polls show Hussein Muhammad Obama with a commanding lead???

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:19 AM
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Sorry to disappoint "Women for Palin." Senator Obama's political mentor, David Axelrod, is a Jew, so is Professor Berlinerblau as are thousands of other Jews supporting him.

Don't invent stuff in desperation.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:17 AM
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Hussein Muhammad Obama is a muslim and the majority of voters will not want to put a muslim man in the White House.

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:16 AM
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History will be made with a woman in the White House and not an African muslim man who is strongly antisemitic.

I never trusted the liberal elite media and the majority of voters don't as well.

John McCain will be the next President of the United States of America and the polls will lose all credibility.

Believe me.

Posted by: Women for Palin | October 10, 2008 11:13 AM
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AMERICN GOVERNMENT WAS OSAMA BEN LADIN GOOD FRIEND IN THE COLD WAR TIME.BUSH MAKING BUSINESS WITH OSAMA BEN LADIN FAMILY,I MEAN OILLLLLLLLLL
IS THAT MAKE BUSH A TERRORIST?

WE ARE JUST JEALOUS ABOUT BARACK OBAMA.

Posted by: NETHERLANDS ANTILLES | October 10, 2008 11:11 AM
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OBAMA BIDEN 08!!!

Posted by: NETHERLANDS ANTILLES | October 10, 2008 11:09 AM
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The conservative American Christian voters and other sectarian I believe will determine the next US President. Conservative electorate will not vote for a too-liberal candidate like Obama. In addition, votes coming from; women, white-working class, blue-collar workers, small-town people,
gun owners, and Latinos will help Senator McCain win the election. Plus, the recent explosive news
about Obama/Ayers connection is detrimental to Democratic candidate. It's TOO RISKY & SCARY for America! Please VOTE CAREFULLY!

Posted by: Fred | October 10, 2008 11:08 AM
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AMERICAN GOVERNMENT was OSAMA BEN LADIN good friend in the cold war time...
PRESIDENT BUSH making business with OSAMA BEN
lADIN family I mean oillllllllllllllllllllllllll.
Is that make BUSH a terroist?
We are just jealous people about BARACK OBAMA, NOHING MORE NOTHING LESS.

Posted by: NETHERLANDS ANTILLES | October 10, 2008 11:06 AM
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Losing Presidential or other leadership candidates frequently descend to gutter type campaigning. It is a well known almost 100% reliable marker FOR A LOSING CAMPAIGN. In a few years Palin and McCain will be nothing more than a foot note of US Presidential campaign history.

Posted by: Brian Musah | October 10, 2008 11:06 AM
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This is ridiculous. McCain is a desperate flopping fish-out-of-water and is trying anything and everything that might stir up negative feelings for someone he can't beat fairly. Par for the course with republicans, though ("bipartisan" my as$). Given the laundry list of negative and fraudulent associations on the McCain/Palin side, I don't think McCain should be throwing stones from his unknown number of glass houses.

Posted by: Randy | October 10, 2008 11:05 AM
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Jacques - you've done it again!

That is, enticing the right wing wackos to come scurrying out into the light of day, just when we thought they'd scuttled back into their hidey holes for good.

You've got to stop ringing their bell with all this Palin talk - smart folks know that one more pit bull in the neighborhood won't be good for anyone's health. They'll eventually even bite the hand that feeds them - and that's the doggone truth.

When the guard dog moves into the big house, the owners move to the dog house.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 11:02 AM
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I am appalled at the shoddy tactics my party members are using. I can't understand how, as Christians, they can encourage the kind of explosive anger they are presently doing in the campaign. If this goes on, I don't know if I can in all good conscience vote for Governor Palin and Senator McCain. and that breaks my heart.

Posted by: Jane Sixpack | October 10, 2008 11:02 AM
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It's the choice between ideology and reality. Americans can often be conned into choosing ideology, but perhaps not this time.

Posted by: norman ravitch | October 10, 2008 11:00 AM
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AMERICN GOVERNMENT WAS OSAMA BEN LADIN GOOD FRIEND IN THE COLD WAR TIME.BUSH MAKING BUSINESS WITH OSAMA BEN LADIN FAMILY,I MEAN OILLLLLLLLLL
IS THAT MAKE BUSH A TERRORIST?

WE ARE JUST JEALOUS ABOUT BARACK OBAMA.

Posted by: NETHERLANDS ANTILLES | October 10, 2008 10:58 AM
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Perhaps another reason, beside the witch doctor exorcism...
Palin herself has been associated for some time with the Alaska Independence Party. The party is a radical secessionist group whose founder, Joe Vogler, once said "the fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government ... and I won't be buried under their damn flag ... I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

Palin has attended the AIP convention on at least two occasions and addressed the convention by video as governor this year, saying "Your party plays an important role in our state's politics. I've always said that competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well. I share your party's vision of upholding the constitution of our great state ... So I say good luck on a successful and inspiring convention. Keep up the good work, and God bless you."

Posted by: Jason Cams | October 10, 2008 10:57 AM
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Looks like a bunch of folks have gotten their morning's instructions from McSlime Central and are fanning out to various boards.

Get a grip, and think for yourself instead of spouting talking points from Fox Snooze and Limbaugh.

Posted by: Athena4 | October 10, 2008 10:55 AM
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By Palin bringing Rev Wright up, the McCain campaign has already done so. What puzzles me about Palin bringing Rev Wrightup is that she, herself, has questionable religious associations with her Pentacostal Church, talking in tongues, and having a "witch doctor" attempting to exorcise her of "witches". How bizzare is this?? Evidently the good witch doctors efforts of praying over, and laying hands on, Sarah Palin failed, as her behavior an comments are very much those of an evil witch! Furthermore, Todd Palin belonged to the Alaskan Independent Party (AIP), that organization that HATES AND CONDEMNS America and its institutions, that party that loudly proclaims, "We are Alaskans, we are NOT Americans". As recently as June 2008, Sarah Palin addressed this party by welcoming folks to the IAP and telling them they were doing a "good job"! Truth is Todd and Sarah Palin are traitors and treasonous, THEY are the ones who are DIFFERENT and who pose a real danger to America. It is Sarah and Todd that see America as different than the rest of American citizens. It is Sarah and Todd who have condemned America and her institutions. Given these facts, pray tell me and the rest of the nation, what business does Sarah have running for Vice President?? Furthermore, she is totally unqualified to fill this important position! Sarah needs to zip her big mouth and go back to her party. Their leader said they will infiltrate our political processes by claiming they are Republicans. It is obvious to me that this is exactly what Sarah Palin is doing and she is doing it at the highest levels of our government! Wake up America!!

Posted by: NinaK | October 10, 2008 10:55 AM
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Senator Obama and his supporters would like the Reverend Wright issue to go away, but as they say in the news business, "The story has legs". It originally came up as an ABC news investigation in the primary campaign to the benefit of candidate Seantor Hillary Clinton, and it is resurfacing again in the election campaign. Mr. Berlinerblau's post is an attempt by the media to sweep the story under the rug, as the story can now only benefit Republican candidate Senator McCain. I remember during the Clinton campaign in 1992, the Gennifer Flowers story was similarly dismissed by the media, and various womanizing incidents came up during the Clinton presidency. The American public as a matter of trust, needs to know the answer to the question, "Who is the real Barack Obama?"

Posted by: John | October 10, 2008 10:55 AM
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Also... wasn't there a YouTube clip of Palin with a crazy Reverend? In Obama's case, the Rev. Wright issue (as the post mentioned above) already hit the point of media saturation. It's returns will have already diminished to zero as anyone who would be influenced to either not vote for Obama or vote for McCain because of it had already been influenced. So now it only threatens to turn off undecideds who don't care about that from McCain who think he's being tasteless by doing so.

I'm not sure the Hagee or Parsley pastors had hit media saturation yet though. And Rev. Muthie CERTAINLY hasn't even SNIFFED media saturation. I think bringing up Rev. Wright would backfire to spectacularly high levels.

Posted by: Charlie S | October 10, 2008 10:55 AM
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AMERICAN GOVERNMENT WAS OSAMA BEN LADIN GOOD FRIEND IN THE COLD WAR TIME.PRESIDENT BUSH MAKING BUSINESS WITH OSAMA BEN LADIN FAMILY, I MEAN OILLLLLLLLLL
IS THAT MAKE BUSH A TERRORIST?

WHOEVER ACCUSE OBAMA AS A TERRORIST,ARE JUST JEALOUS ABOUT THAT GUY..... NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.

Posted by: NETHERLANDS ANTILLES | October 10, 2008 10:54 AM
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The time is now!
To remind Americans that Barack Hussein Obama is just another politician that will do or say whatever it takes to fulfill his political ambitions. Barack is calculated and methodical about hiding his true convictions and intentions, and uses deception to get elected.

The time is now!
For Americans to remember Barack Hussein Obama’s intimate 20 year relationship with the Priest of Hate, Jeremiah Wright, who blessed Barack and Michelle marriage and baptized both their daughters. AND, to remember the hideous videos of Jeremiah Wright’s congregation which included the Obamas, damning America with bombastic joy, after the Muslim’s criminal attack on America on 9/11.

The time is now!
For Americans to remember how Barack's Priest of Hate, Jeremiah Wright used his tax-exempt church to exercise a radical political agenda, and how he refers to Israel, as well as America, as a "racist" State. Barack's religious leader, Jeremiah Wright believes that the true 'Chosen People' are the blacks; and that black values are superior to middle-class American values.
 Indeed Barack's Priest of Hate, Jeremiah Wright is a black supremacist.

The time is now!
To remind Americans that Barack Hussein Obama wants to be president to implement Jeremiah Wright’s dream of a black supremacist society in America.

The time is now!
For Americans of all political parties to come together to preserve the future of the country we love and have always been proud of, by voting for a True American Patriot and War Hero who risked his life for our country:
John McCain for President of the United States of America.

Country First!
Americans for John McCain/Sarah Palin

Posted by: Manolete | October 10, 2008 10:53 AM
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Carl Lindner. A man that runs McCain's Ohio campaign, a good friend, and a fund raiser. He also pleaded guilty to directly funding terrorists with millions of dollars.

McCain pals around with terrorists:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/02/mccain-fundraiser-oversaw_n_110354.html

Posted by: Bruce Becker, D.D. | October 10, 2008 10:52 AM
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In response to the Ayers thing, this LTTE was in the NY Times this morning. It was from the original prosecutor of the Weather Underground.

As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

William C. Ibershof
Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008

Keep in mind that W. Mark Felt later revealed himself to be Deep Throat.

Posted by: Athena4 | October 10, 2008 10:52 AM
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Steve:

Barack and Michelle Obama have a past steeped in radical socialism.
From Baracks communist father, to his radical Muslim step-father, to Ayers, and to Rev Wright.
Granted, they have disassociated themselves in the past eight years as the groomed for the Presidency..... but I can't see why we should not be aware of his ( their ) formitive backgrounds.
Oh yes, remember the fuss over Bill and Hillary's dual presidency ? Be afraid.... be very afraid !!

October 10, 2008 10:38 AM

__________________________________________

Senator Obama's communist father? The father who left his mother when he was two years old? I see.

And his "radical" stepfather? Radical because he studied in the US? Senator Obama returned to the US when he was hardly ten years old and was raised by his white maternal grandparents. He attended a private school where he was a rare non-white.

If anything Senator Obama has been accused of being the consensus builder, trying to unite all sides, with no original ideas. Not the radical at all.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:52 AM
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How about McCain dating his current wife while married to another woman, although it is fairly common knowledge, bringing it to the forefront would not appeal to conservatives. Personally, I think the two candidates have a reprise on the Reverend and adultery issue.

Posted by: Lynne | October 10, 2008 10:49 AM
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The Ayers thing is old. It has already been proven by all the probes that Obama is not a terrorist. If the parties want to get personal, fine, it is bound to happen. Obama has done a nice job at not sinking to McCain's level, but judging that so many people are harping on here-say, lets look at McCain:
1. Keating 5- Yes he was left off for that, but it was deemed that he made poor judgments. Yes he was the only Rep. but, out of the Keating 5, who is running for president? That is why it should be noted. Members of my family lost life saving because of Keating, which McCain was involved with and accepted money.
2. McCain believes in infidelity. Honestly, so many people had problems with Clinton, even though it didn't affect his leadership, why are those same people not focusing on McCain's commitment issues? If McCain made a vow under God to remain with his wife and not cheat, what makes you think he won't try to cheat on the American people? A lot of people can slam this statement, but if you honestly think about it, infidelity, greed are not characteristics of a Christian.

Posted by: Jon | October 10, 2008 10:48 AM
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As soon as the rest of the world steps up to the plate and pays us for being their policemen, then we might be able to fund more foreign aid.

http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/cda06-02.cfm

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | October 10, 2008 10:46 AM
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I personally don't believe that these so-called issues of association and character have all that much to do with a president's success in office. Clinton was a man of loose morals but he did a really good job with our budget and economy. Bush is reportedly a Christian, but of 415 professional historians polled by the HNN, 338 classified his administration as a failure and 12% went so far as to say he is the worst president in our country's history. So I think it's pointless to go dredging up past relationships to try to sway voters. If that sort of thing actually did make a difference, then the Dem's would probably be talking about Phil Gramm, McCain's economic adviser that he fired in July after some comments he made about America being a nation of whiners and that we're not in a financial recession but a mental recession got out in the media. And if you look at Phil Gramm even closer, you will learn that in the late 70's he was a co-producer of three pornographic movies, one of them set in the White House! So if the republicans are so worried about associations and their implications on a candidate's character, why don't they examine their own candidate's relationships? We all know this whole thing is just part of the campaign game. Let's just drop it and focus on the issues that actually matter.

Posted by: wac78 | October 10, 2008 10:46 AM
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A message to all Jews - Obama's church gave an award a few years ago to Louis Farrakhan. Obama never protested. What more do you need to know?

PS: There's a lot more to know.

PPS: I am Jewish

PPPS: I am voting for M/P.

Posted by: Peter | October 10, 2008 10:45 AM
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WdeR:

Interesting analysis from this Georgetown professor. And yes, I agree it's time to move on. Nevertheless, we should remember that Senator Obama has willingly associated with those who have expressed hatred for and a desire to do violence to America. Does he secretly share in that hatred? Does he have a hidden agenda to turn the United States on its ear and take from those who have and give it to those who don't? Penalize those who have succeeded and reward those who never will? Is he an anti-american Socialist who would cede America's power to the UN and gut our treasury by opening its coffers to the third world? He says we are not to dare question his patriotism. I would remind the Senator that we are the American voter, his potential employer, and that if he's going to apply for the job, we have the right to question anything we want. Personally, I'm pretty sure this guy does not have my best interets at heart.

October 10, 2008 10:11 AM

_______________________________________________

Most help from the US to third world countries are by private persons and private agencies, and not by the government, from the tax payer's money. So your money is safe, don't worry. It won't go to helping many in the third world.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:45 AM
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.
Oh Wow!
.
Glad she brought this up!
.
NONE of us have EVER heard of Wright Ayers.
.

Posted by: T-Prop | October 10, 2008 10:41 AM
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What about Sarah's witch curing excorsism....That's priceless video with the laying on of the hands and chanting and all. Can't wait. Fall TV has been less than thrilling.

Posted by: SteveSD | October 10, 2008 10:41 AM
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Barack and Michelle Obama have a past steeped in radical socialism.
From Baracks communist father, to his radical Muslim step-father, to Ayers, and to Rev Wright.
Granted, they have disassociated themselves in the past eight years as the groomed for the Presidency..... but I can't see why we should not be aware of his ( their ) formitive backgrounds.
Oh yes, remember the fuss over Bill and Hillary's dual presidency ? Be afraid.... be very afraid !!

Posted by: Steve | October 10, 2008 10:38 AM
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It's the company you keep- Didn't your Mother teach you that?
Obama lied about his relationship with Ayres. He's not "just a guy in the neighborhood." He is an unrepentant terrorist and his wife is a murderer. When he "got off"- he said "Guilty as hell. Free as a bird."
Nice.
Rev. G.D. America Wright's black theology teachings are NOT just "sound bites"- his white hating, America hating sermons are rooted in the writings of James Cone (Google THAT).
Obama distanced himself from Wright- after vowing not to.
Under the bus goes Jeremiah-thump.

It was reported last night that Obama was successful when he ran on the Democrat-Socialist ticket. Watch the MSM follow THAT- yeah!

Indeed- Barry's judgement is greatly "flawed" when it comes to his associations, mentors and business associates.
Ayres, Wright, Rezko, ACORN, Frank Raines, Chris Dodd - even Michelle "America is a Downright Mean Country" Obama- the angriest woman in the country.
These people hate our country and have a Socialist agenda.
It's experience and judgment!

Wake up America!
McCain-Palin 2008
And please- don't waste you vote by writing in Hillary, Huckabee or Paul. Your precious vote counts- especially since ACORN is stuffing the ballot box for Obama all over the country!

Posted by: Alec | October 10, 2008 10:35 AM
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Sarah Palin speeches are all refried it is getting boring. I wish I hear something coming out of herself.

Posted by: fernando canavati | October 10, 2008 10:28 AM
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WdeR:

Interesting analysis from this Georgetown professor. And yes, I agree it's time to move on. Nevertheless, we should remember that Senator Obama has willingly associated with those who have expressed hatred for and a desire to do violence to America. Does he secretly share in that hatred? Does he have a hidden agenda to turn the United States on its ear and take from those who have and give it to those who don't? Penalize those who have succeeded and reward those who never will? Is he an anti-american Socialist who would cede America's power to the UN and gut our treasury by opening its coffers to the third world? He says we are not to dare question his patriotism. I would remind the Senator that we are the American voter, his potential employer, and that if he's going to apply for the job, we have the right to question anything we want. Personally, I'm pretty sure this guy does not have my best interets at heart.

October 10, 2008 10:11 AM

_______________________________________

Read up a little more on how West European socialism functions.

For the record, although the US is the richest country in the world with the highest number of practicing Christians, it is the least generous when it comes to helping third world countries. West European countries, officially secular for the most part, are far, far more generous.

Chew on that!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:26 AM
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The Democratic Congress Struck The Match, Set The Fire, and Fanned the Flames Which Are Burning Our Economy To The Ground Are Conspiring To Shift Blame And Avoid Jail Time. And One Of Them Is Set To Be Our Next Attorney General.

The Major Players Including Jamie Goerlick, Franklin Raines, Daniel Mudd, and Jim Johnson are at the heart of this meltdown.

Aided By Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Chuck Schummer, Henry Waxman, Maxine Waters, Artur Davis, Gregory Meeks, Lacy Clay, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Barrack Obama, and Nancy Pelosi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

These people owe the American People an explanation, an apology, and perhaps some jail time. Don't take your eye off of the ball. These are the people who lit the match and fanned the flames. One Of The Players, Jamie Goerlick is set to be our next attorney General. We simply CAN'T let this happen or they will all go free.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=67068

And You Certainly Can't Dismiss Acorns Involvement In The Melt Down. Acorn Was Heavily Involved In Pressuring Banks To Make Less Than Credit Worthy Loans In Economically Depressed Areas. Obama Was Their Lawyer When They Threatened or Sued Those Banks To Make The Worthless Loans

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Blog/Default.aspx?id=279960

Please Tell Your Neighbor What These Democrats Have Done!

Posted by: GeraldD | October 10, 2008 10:25 AM
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Wright, Ayers, Alinsky, Rezko and Raines are all fair game. They all reveal both the man's character and his judgement. Since we have no track record from Obama other than his left-side-of-the-party 143 working days in the US senate, what else should voters use to figure out who he really is?

Posted by: George | October 10, 2008 10:25 AM
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I think we need to know and remember the type of people that the possible president of the united states is associated with. He will still be associated with them and some times advised by them. One of his advisers was born in Iran, Two more of the people that are in charge of the donations are from Pakistan. Were dose all the money that he is getting come from? He won't tell any body. With the economy the way it who has the money to donate to his campaign when they can't pay the bills. just be carful who you vote for.

Posted by: fnp9 | October 10, 2008 10:21 AM
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This story is BORING. It was bad enough back in April having to hear this BS every hour of every day.

Let me make this clear: you are NOT responsible for what OTHER people say.

If you were, then Sarah Palin hates America and promotes secession from the U.S., as this is the views of the Alaskan Independence Party...

to which her husband "the first dude" is a member.

Posted by: richard | October 10, 2008 10:21 AM
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Its amazing how the left wing french democratic has has moved.As in (MOVE ON .ORG with the money from that lousy SOCIALIST PIG George Soros.Look where this country is headed with so called leaders like Nacy Pelosi,Harry Reid,(He reminds of the old drunk super of my building where I grew up the Bronx).Don't Forget Obama the most left wing RADICAL in the senate.For good measure throw in that dirt bag liar Barney Frank,and that other liar Chris Dodd of Ct.for getting us in the position we are in today with the economy.Let's get back to Obama and his ties to an Anti-American,Anti Semitic,Reverand Jeremiah Wright.He is an issue.How about Father Flager also a hater.William Ayers.Unrepentant TERROIST.His Wife Bernedine Dorn. Urepentant TERRORIST.America leopards don't change their spots.

Posted by: jeff | October 10, 2008 10:17 AM
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I agree that there are far more important issues in our nation. However, a person's character can be defined by whom he/she develops a relationship. And most of the country has the wool over there eyes. When the Wright controversy started, I went straight to the churches' website which was clearly anti-white and anti-American. One of the "rules" set forth by wright. "A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA." Among other stqtements, there was a clear message. The site has since changed as the reverand retired and a new pastor has taken over. It does seem quite interesting these changes were made and the affiliation Obama had with this lunatic was brushed under the rug, especially by the mainstream media. As a Christain, I can attest that most will choose a church based on the person leading the flock. If Obama was learning from Wright about values, then America is in for a rude awakening if he makes it into the White House. The American economy may be important, but I would love to hear about Obama's relationships with Wright, William Ayers(a renowned terrorist), Rezko(convicted of 16 felony corruption charges), and ACORN (advocated for the creation of mortgage laws that put our economy where it is now by making banks loan money to Americans who could not afford to pay the money back). All of these relationships attest to the character of a man who wants to lead our country. By making this information unavailable to the American people, the media has defiled the idea of democracy in our great nation, misleading voters by covering up questions that need to be addressed.

Posted by: Benjamin | October 10, 2008 10:15 AM
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I'm surprised at some of the comments going toward the path of hatred. Why can't you see that the Mcain/Palin ticket is coming from a place of fear. The only reason the negitive campaigning is rolling out is due to fear of loosing. If they are are not strong enough to make it with out the negitive jabbing, that "my friend" says something about their character. Let's get back to the real issues like the economy. These candidates are human beings that have a personal life. The focus needs to be on leadership for our country.

Posted by: Imagine | October 10, 2008 10:15 AM
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The Pentacostal Church is a mainstream Christian denomination with thousands of Churches worldwide. There is a Pentacostal wing in the Catholic Church known as Catholic Charismatic Renewal. It is approved by the Pope and Church hierarchy.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:12 AM
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Interesting analysis from this Georgetown professor. And yes, I agree it's time to move on. Nevertheless, we should remember that Senator Obama has willingly associated with those who have expressed hatred for and a desire to do violence to America. Does he secretly share in that hatred? Does he have a hidden agenda to turn the United States on its ear and take from those who have and give it to those who don't? Penalize those who have succeeded and reward those who never will? Is he an anti-american Socialist who would cede America's power to the UN and gut our treasury by opening its coffers to the third world? He says we are not to dare question his patriotism. I would remind the Senator that we are the American voter, his potential employer, and that if he's going to apply for the job, we have the right to question anything we want. Personally, I'm pretty sure this guy does not have my best interets at heart.

Posted by: WdeR | October 10, 2008 10:11 AM
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Witches in Alaska? Maybe that state actually should secede from the union. 'twould solve at least one major problem.

Posted by: chasmee | October 10, 2008 10:11 AM
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Jim:

Palin's herself had 20 years in Wasilla Assembly Of God, a fundamentalist church where she was prayed over by a witch hunter, Rev. Muthee who asked God to "rebuke all witchcraft" as he was praying over her. If she starts going after Obama's Rev. Wright connection I think it will be perfectly valid for people to question the practices at her churches and whether she believes dinosaurs lived on earth at the same time as humans.

October 10, 2008 9:56 AM

_________________________________________________

That is all Pentacostal pastors do - lay their hands on people and pray that GOD may deliver the person from the evil one and witchcraft. If you wish to know the ultimate basis for such a prayer, read the prayer Jesus Himself taught:

Matthew chapter 6 NIV

Prayer

5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 "This, then, is how you should pray:

" 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come, your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,
*BUT DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE.*

14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

______________________________________________

Matthew 6:13

And lead us not into temptation,

*BUT DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE.*

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:09 AM
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What about Palin's OWN pastor and her participation in anti-witchcraft services and hosting "Jews for Jesus?" Her own religious views are far more troubling to the majority of mainstream Americans than are Obama's.

Obama has lived the Christian directive to serve the poor. Palin seems to have lived by the hypocrite creed to serve herself.

Posted by: Jenny R | October 10, 2008 10:09 AM
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booo hooo!!!! TIMES HAVE CHANGED!!!!!! SOUNDS LIKE A LITTLE RACISM IN THERE.

Posted by: JTMONEY | October 10, 2008 10:08 AM
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I could care less about Pastor Wright. It's all been laided out. It's all been examined. It's all been looked at and talked to death ad-nauseum.

Can we move on here and talk about what the heck is up with people like Richard Fuld of Lehman being able to take a salary of 500 million dollars while he ripped off the 1 million my parents worked their entire lives to save up .. and was able to wipe it off the table in one fell swoop.

They worked their entire lives scrimping, saving, staying home and they were successful. They reached their lifetime goal of saving one million. Invested it in a hedge fund for safety and now it is all gone. All gone. Gone. Gone. Gone.

They have nothing. Nada.

This is a sick, sick, sick place.

Posted by: Dave | October 10, 2008 10:07 AM
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This just in:

The economy has lost TRILLIONS over the last few weeks.

But yes, McSame should bring up someone's pastor.

Posted by: John | October 10, 2008 10:07 AM
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McCain and Palin are creating a dangerous atmosphere for Obama. People are screaming comments like traitor, treason, socialist, communist, terrorist, kill him, and off with his head at their rallies. Do they (McCain and Palin)really believe Obama is a terrorist? Or are they resorting to the last tactic that they have, subliminally introducing race into politics to achieve a political goal? Someone out there could be planning to assasinate Obama as I write this blog because of the "HATE" campaign they are running now. McCain and Palin are dividing the country right now and I fear the 60's era paranoia has returned. This was the same atmosphere that got Kennedy and King killed. Do we really want this to happen again? If Obama was a terrorist in these post 911 times. Wouldn't the FBI and Homeland Security be investigating him and have him on their terror watch list? America wake up!!! McCain and Palin are not Federal agents. They are willing to destroy this country to win an election when our economy is in the worst crisis it has been in a long time. People are mentally unstable. And a Race war is right around the corner. I thought America was better than this.

Posted by: lamont | October 10, 2008 10:06 AM
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Stop the name calling and Gov.Palin when persons in the crowd shout out inapropriate threating remarks please raise your hands and tell then stop. People want to hear how we will get back on track etc...Let us have a none name calling but factual basis debate from both sides. I am an Independant voter. Senator McCain is a good man, but seems to change his stance on various issues. so I will be voting for Senator Obama as he seems to stay on point, not perfect, but seems to be close enough for me Smile Thank you

Posted by: ppeterson | October 10, 2008 10:05 AM
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It is interesting that Palin wants to talk character since her Aw Shucks (wink, wink) persona is so fake when compared to her real persona. From all that I read and have seen, she appears to be one crazy religious zealot intent on hammering her beliefs into everyone she meets. Couple that with an apparent nasty, mean streak that is evident in the troopergate investigation and you have just one real bad person who wants to run this country. We can do better. Who wants to try and do WORSE than Bush......

Posted by: Bob | October 10, 2008 10:04 AM
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Is Palin so dense, and McCain so consumed with anger and ambition, that they have no idea how much they are embarrassing the United States of America via the insanely ineffective, dishonorable attacks on the likely next President of their country? I'm stupefied, and embarrassed myself for the U.S., and I'm not even a citizen of that great land. God awful fortunately, the pressures of the campaign have brought out the real John McCain, for all of the electorate to see. Can you imagine the catastrophe if he had been elected: far worse than George(s) Bush, I would hazard to say. Come on Republicans! It is time for you to rejuvenate yourselves and stop letting your leaders stampede you like buffaloes, over the cliff to political doom. What on this earth are you thinking; or rather more accurately: why on this earth are you not?

Posted by: Daryl Atamanyk | October 10, 2008 10:04 AM
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They can't call him ni@@er, so they say HUSSEIN OBAMA, or call him muslum. Just read between the lines.

Posted by: It's all racism | October 10, 2008 10:04 AM
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Palin has her own pastor problems, in case you didn't notice. You fail to mention Tom Muthee and his witch hunting activities, so maybe your viewpoint on this matter is skewed.

Posted by: oregonian | October 10, 2008 10:04 AM
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Please tell me what answers Obama has for the economy? He has spent the last two years attacking Bush, changing his positions to fit the crowd and changing circumstances. If Obama actually had experience or any legislative accomplishments their might be some substance to the man. We are left only with his questionable relationships and character to consider. Had a white politician spent 20 years in a racist church the press would not let it die.

Posted by: JL | October 10, 2008 10:03 AM
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The only way Palin is getting in to the Oval Office is with a tour pass. Keep your head in the sand, when you come up for air take a look at the electoral map. You are about to see the biggest Democratic landslide since 1964.

Republicans got their wish in 2004 and re-elected Bush who has trashed this country in 8 years. As President Obama said "Bush dug us a hole & McCain carried the shovel".

Thanks again for the Palin pick, it's the gift that keeps on giving to the Democrats.

Obama/Biden 08

In America, anybody can be president. That's one of the risks you take.

Adlai E. Stevenson
1900-1965
American Lawyer, Politician

Posted by: RJ | October 10, 2008 10:03 AM
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You forgot the part about her pastor (witch doctor) problems.

Posted by: david dial | October 10, 2008 10:02 AM
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"That one" will be my president and the other one is just a mean old scrooge

Posted by: Obama08 | October 10, 2008 10:02 AM
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Senator Obama's decisions about whom he associates with do reveal character and, more importantly, judgment. They are fair game, just like the "Keating Five" business, Pastor Hagee, etc. Perhaps an appropriate method of evaluation is to see what each candidate did upon learning of the disagreeble nature of those relationships. If Governor Palin wants to attack Senator Obama's judgment based on his past relationships and friendships, then she should go right ahead. If no one listens, then that's the campaign's strategists' fault for picking the wrong message. Senator McCain should be out, clearly explaining his financial policies and plans. Of course, with Governor Palin getting larger crowds than any other candidate, it would probably be wise for her to take Mr. Berlinerblau's advice and get on with the economy.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 10:01 AM
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Well, some folks think the Wright issue should indeed be "brought up again." In fact, some think it never should have gone away. Appallingly, Obama was largely given a pass on the subject of Jeremiah Wright, with all its implications. Among other things, it is part of a pattern in Obama's past adult life, a pattern of chosen association with racists, hate-mongers, urban terrorists, and even criminals. It is reasonable to assume that these influences helped to form Obama's present character and ideology. If so, the voters need to know it. If not, then the media and Barack Obama have a responsibility to explain it much more fully than has thus far been done.

Posted by: C Nelson | October 10, 2008 9:59 AM
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There's one more "because" - because you and so many other white conservative Americans don't "get" history about black America. Try reversing positions: if whites had been enslaved for 300 years and then segregated, lynched and dehumanized for another 150 only to have not even get to a rough kind of parity barely 50 years ago through the lives and deaths of a few great leaders, then you too would be "hating" the institutions of government that kept oppression legal. Wright comes from an era when to be angry, to fight back against white oppression was an imperative in order to make a difference. On top of that, I'm guessing you've never been in a black church - like Wright's - your entire life; you've never experienced 400 years of oppression distilled into a sermon, a prayer or a gospel choir. We have to see Wright within this context; if we don't then we are merely looking to divide and conquer, not truly understand and move on.

Posted by: sdtrueman | October 10, 2008 9:58 AM
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I feel it is very important to hear about Rev. Wright and Obama's relationship. Yes, the Economy is in bad shape right now and we need to be focused on that but I just can't see how someone with the associates Obama has had, pulling us out. Socialism is not the way to go.

Posted by: jtmoney | October 10, 2008 9:58 AM
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Governor Palin has a problem with a visiting African priest to her church?

That is interesting. Wasn't there a complaint that she had never left the country? Is she responsible for the views and practices of all the pastors in all the Pentacostal churches around the world?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 9:58 AM
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Since this is politics just keep in mind. All things are "fair" game and are mentioned even if they have no bearing at all. But if it has bearing or not is up to the people who listen to decide, not for the press, or religion, or others to decide for each individual. Bring out all the skeltons from everyone and let the people decide! AFter all this is suppose to be a Democracy where the people are heard.

Posted by: Eb | October 10, 2008 9:57 AM
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Ayers,Keating, Wright,Hagee, that kid in fifth grade; Who really cares? I have been unemployed for three weeks now and doesn't look good. That's what I care about.

Thankfully, GOD is still in control.

Gary Wyatt

Posted by: Gary Wyatt | October 10, 2008 9:57 AM
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It is not necessarily just the matter of Wright, but the whole equation of Obama's character, judgement and truthfulness.

Rev.Wright + Ayers + Raines + (Fannie Mae + Freddie MAC) + ACORN + Farhkan (SP) + Rezko + refusal to show his college transcripts + refusal to show full length vaul copy birth certificate + refusal to show that he is no longer an Indonesian Citizen =

= A great forumla for corruption, bad judgement, liar, deceitful, criminalist behaviors, etc. etc.

Some state that the last two are just crazy, but the last time I checked our Constitution states one must be a Natural Born Citizen, which as of right now OBama is not. If he is, then why block people from seeing this, why request a dismissal of the court proceeding in PA? Just show the LEGAL PROOF so it can be dropped and his integrity and truthfulness is not called into question about those two issues.

All of the above goes to question not just his judgement/character, but what the heck he will do if he is elected and whom he will bring into the white house to corrupt our country even further than it already his (referring to the corruption of the congress of course).

Posted by: KrysDay | October 10, 2008 9:57 AM
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Two good reasons why the Repubs should abandon the Rev. Wright attack. 1. Palin's own church are religious views are completely nutty. 2. The leader of the Alaskan secession movement that Palin supported, at least tacitly, has slandered America much worse than anything Rev. Wright has said. Bottom line, McCain is completely desperate and is wearing his desperation on his sleeve, even saying "life isn't fair." Hmm, isn't that the kind of wining that Phil Gramm dissed?

Posted by: MIke, Philadelphia | October 10, 2008 9:57 AM
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Palin's herself had 20 years in Wasilla Assembly Of God, a fundamentalist church where she was prayed over by a witch hunter, Rev. Muthee who asked God to "rebuke all witchcraft" as he was praying over her. If she starts going after Obama's Rev. Wright connection I think it will be perfectly valid for people to question the practices at her churches and whether she believes dinosaurs lived on earth at the same time as humans.

Posted by: Jim | October 10, 2008 9:56 AM
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It is not necessarily just the matter of Wright, but the whole equation of Obama's character, judgement and truthfulness.

Rev.Wright + Ayers + Raines + (Fannie Mae + Freddie MAC) + ACORN + Farhkan (SP) + Rezko + refusal to show his college transcripts + refusal to show full length vaul copy birth certificate + refusal to show that he is no longer an Indonesian Citizen =

= A great forumla for corruption, bad judgement, liar, deceitful, criminalist behaviors, etc. etc.

Some state that the last two are just crazy, but the last time I checked our Constitution states one must be a Natural Born Citizen, which as of right now OBama is not. If he is, then why block people from seeing this, why request a dismissal of the court proceeding in PA? Just show the LEGAL PROOF so it can be dropped and his integrity and truthfulness is not called into question about those two issues.

All of the above goes to question not just his judgement/character, but what the heck he will do if he is elected and whom he will bring into the white house to corrupt our country even further than it already his (referring to the corruption of the congress of course).

Posted by: KrysDay | October 10, 2008 9:56 AM
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Thank you for bringing this up. The tenor and tonality of McCain's pit bull's words. WE as Americans do NOT need this piece of vile and immoral idiot

Posted by: Abe | October 10, 2008 9:56 AM
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And you are opposing it because you oppose Palin and McCain -- your response is right out of the Democrat playbook. I hear it on TV over and over and over from Obama's minions. Is the Washington Post finally admitting it is nothing but a Democrat rag?

Posted by: Jeff Smith | October 10, 2008 9:55 AM
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Who cares? What about the economy?

I am losing millions!!!!!

Posted by: Winthorpe | October 10, 2008 9:55 AM
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Why is it wrong? We are looking at who is most likely going to be our next president of the United States and he has been listening to racist and hateful rhetoric by Wright and applauding that rhetoric for YEARS! Obama himself even made racists remarks in his books showing he is in agreement with Wrights views and ideals. Racism is wrong not matter what the color and I surely don't want a racist or someone who is harboring hate in office. As for the press being bored with the subject? What's with all of the talk this week about McCain saying "that one"??? The media has CLEARLY been biased in it's reporting in favor of Obama so it gives the McCain camp EVERY right to make light of the issues the media is clearly choosing to ignore.

Posted by: Jimmy Overstreet | October 10, 2008 9:55 AM
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I am surprised at the furor Rev. Wright's sermon raised. Yes he said that 9/11 was a visitation of punishment against the sins of America. But lets be frank, I have heard that such and such a disaster is God's punishment on several occasions from different preachers.

The truth is, a preacher's sermon is a venue for highlighting religious principles and not socio-political. If I were to relate the story of Lot's wife, who was turned to a pillar of salt because she looked back while god annihilated a city or its sins, would I be as guilty as Rev. Wright?

Wright may have made incendiary comments, but I have heard many preachers say comments of a similar type. A preacher's job is to bring people to consider the desires of God, and if Wright chose to use inflammatory issues to shock people into paying attention, then he was only using a technique of rhetoric.

Posted by: Lordastral | October 10, 2008 9:54 AM
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And you are opposing it because you oppose Palin and McCain -- your response is right out of the Democrat playbook. I hear it on TV over and over and over from Obama's minions. Is the Washington Post finally admitting it is nothing but a Democrat rag?

Posted by: Jeff Smith | October 10, 2008 9:54 AM
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Sorry, that was *extra*-Judaism (the Jewish community lived surrounded by pagans) and pre-Christianity (Europe had its own version of paganism before the spread of Christianity).

Paganism, it is well known, has a different take on sexual morals for their gods and goddesses understand sexuality differently. So the need for abortion must be greater since the sexual freedom permitted by the religion would automatically lead to more unwanted pregnancies.

Hippocrates, the Father of Western Medicine, it can be concluded with good reason, had to get medical doctors to swear an oath that they would not induce abortion, in order to reduce the number of unborn babies killed.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 9:53 AM
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I agree. The subject of Wright's diatribes need not be hammered again and again. But it is still among the relevant considerations in our determination of who to vote for. What are we supposed to do? Forget about it? If you're listing things that worry you about Obama, the Reverand's comments and Obama's seeming tolerance of them are among the factors the weigh in.

Posted by: Tryor | October 10, 2008 9:52 AM
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Do you think that if McCain had a 20 year relationship with David Duke of the KKK fame, and later renounced his association after declaring his candidacy that we should also just decide that the news media has covered this enough?

Is it just possible that by listening to 'separatist' theology for 20 years that it may have had some influence on how an individual might want to govern?

If we can label McCain as a follower of Bush because he voted in agreement with a number of his policies, do we ignore the more liberal (or even socialistic) leanings of the votes we see from Sen. Obama? Have they been influenced by his environment of the past 20 years in Wright's church or as an attorney supporting ACORN?

I think that the associations might have some influence on the character of an individual, as we continue to uncover them.

Posted by: ANONOMOUS THINKER | October 10, 2008 9:52 AM
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Hi Jacques Berlinerblau
Obamomania abuse people minds. I bet you know that on your's perfect example. Obama won with Hillary because bias media told her - here is some taboo to disscuss issues for you (but not for THE ONE).

Posted by: John | October 10, 2008 9:52 AM
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It would be unwise of her to bring up Rev. Wright, because that would leave her open to attacks on her own questionable choices in spiritual guides.

Posted by: Carlos | October 10, 2008 9:52 AM
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That rarest of ingredients common sense would demand that the voters know everything possible about all candidates.

This election may be treated like a parlour game but it far from that though the media who are interested possibly in ratings etc rather than the welfare of the nation and by extension the world are not mature.

We who cannot vote but will be affected watch and listen with profound alarm helplessly.

Posted by: William Patterson Cook | October 10, 2008 9:51 AM
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You forgot to mention that Palin has her own Pastor problems--the African Witch Hunter...you know the guy who said the Jews run all the banks and incited a mob to hunt down some poor old lady in a village and blamed her for all the problems there. Sounds a lot like Salem three hundred years ago. And they've got video of him laying his hands on her, simultaneously condemning greed, but praying for good fundraising in her run for governor. Obama was not there during Rev. Wright's ill-advised sermon, Palin was on stage with the old-woman hunting Witch Doctor.

Watch it here, Palin arrives onstage at about 7:15 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkViRp6W5oE

Posted by: bigeugene | October 10, 2008 9:51 AM
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You would think that Palin wouldn't want to mention any pastors at all, in light of her own favorite witch hunter. But then, Palin is Palin. But I would guess that McCain would just as soon leave the whole thing alone, for the same reason.

Posted by: Jim | October 10, 2008 9:51 AM
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All you self-centered liberals just can't stand the truth!
HUSSEIN OBAMA is a lying, arrogant, self serving left-wing radical that believes he is the second coming of Allah! If this crud is elected, what cabinet posts do you think Ayer's, Flager and Wright will have?
Does Hussein Obama's associations mean nothing to you idiots!!!!

Posted by: JER | October 10, 2008 9:50 AM
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/24/171613/532/36/609149

Antisemitism is a bad door to open.

Posted by: JAck | October 10, 2008 9:50 AM
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I can tell you do not want the subject brought up because it would hurt your candidate. However, we should elect people who have integrity and character. For Obama to sit under the teaching and preaching of this man for 20 years, and proclaiming his admiration for him until the press actually asked about him, and then he threw Wright under the bus like he does everyone else who might become a negative for him, tells the American people about the true character of this canddidate.

Obama is not fit to serve as President, as well as not qualified.

Posted by: Jim W. Hensley | October 10, 2008 9:50 AM
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Another reason Palin is goofy to bring this up is her own assocaition with a paster that is on video tape discussing his work with witches. He apparently found a witch in Africa and saved her. Palin was right there lovin it all.

Posted by: JOe Sixpack | October 10, 2008 9:49 AM
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There's an election going on, Mister. There is no "wrong". All these issues are relevant. Especially with this economic panic going on, the Democrats tried to put together a slush fund for ACORN... It's about character... and Obama's is questionable in this crisis.

Posted by: SamB | October 10, 2008 9:49 AM
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The 'Wright Issue' is no more; revisit Obama's explanation months ago.

Now, Palin and religion is an issue ready to be exploded right on her face: her involvement with witchcraft and her belief the Iraq war was by order from God (these are in Youtube videos for all to see). Would the McCain campaign want to go that route? I doubt it.

And if McCain campaign wants to go negative, like the non-existent association with the 60s radical when Obama was only eight years old, McCain will have more to lose: his close association with the Savings and Loan debacle (re: Keating & Co) as well as his one time reported association with ultra conservative group involved with the Contra Affair and that was also reportedly racist and anti-Jewish.

Posted by: Alemzena | October 10, 2008 9:49 AM
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And don't forget that Gov Palin, has her own Pastor problems, with Rev Mutha, and others.
Not to mention that she's spoken in front of an Alaskan secessionist movement, which her husband belonged to.
The hypocrisy of these people, makes one's mind explode.
And seeing the angry Mobs, that McCain/Palin are inciting, is very dangerous & scary.

Posted by: baz | October 10, 2008 9:49 AM
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Everyone knows Roe vs Wade was decided as a privacy issue, ie: confidentiality between the doctor and the woman. Why don't we offer the same confidentiality between the hirer and the hired killer who committs murder.

Posted by: Redneck | October 10, 2008 9:48 AM
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Rev Wright is very relevant. Obama was in that church for 20 years. He didn't leave until it was hurting him politically.

Obama is a either a lier or a fool when he claims he didn't know about Wright's extreme views. Either way it shows how flawed Obama's character is and that he is not fit to lead.

The lefts willingness to overlook Obama's countless flaws just shows how desperate they are to win AT ANY COST. The left would gladly see america destroyed if it meant they could win the presidency.

Posted by: reason | October 10, 2008 9:48 AM
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And you are wrong for not acknowledging a dark past in the life of Mr. Obama. Let's get with it and give some credibility to the factual evidence rather than the "story line" that the leftists and Obama supporters want you to tow along.

Governor Palin seems to be a strong, forthright and jubilant campaigner - trying to pull the GOP back online with its roots and value system. Don't you agree?

Posted by: ZZ | October 10, 2008 9:48 AM
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People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Why don't we talk about Sarah Palin's preacher who protected her against "witchcraft" so she could win the governorship.

Or the preacher at her church who railed against Jews.

These things are on Youtube. also.

Posted by: Haybale | October 10, 2008 9:48 AM
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This is the perfect retribution by God on the american voter for their sin of voting the dumb moron Bush twice.

They will be tortured to eventually vote for the right candidate Obama inspite of his association with Bill Ayers. And this is indeed divine intervention as Bill Ayers vehemently and violently opposed a stupid and immoral war by America in the past - the Vietnam war. A war in which millions of Vietnamese died. A war in which McCain himself went on 23 bombing runs. A war where America flexed its imperial muscles.

Today we are again in the same situation - in Iraq. A war that was launched on fabricated intelligence. Remember Collin Powell showing fabricated intelligence of WMDs.

This torture of American voters will continue untill they internalize within themselves - it is wrong to launch wars on people in far away lands on lies.

Posted by: JSmith | October 10, 2008 9:48 AM
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Why isn't the press focussed on Palin's witch pastor and her connection to the AIP?

Posted by: brenda beiser | October 10, 2008 9:47 AM
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She really shouldn't open that can of worms because in the "your preacher is better than my preacher" debate she is going to loose. She is inciting hatred and racism and is an embarassment to the United States. Send her back to the sticks where she belongs. Shame on the GOP for picking this nitwit. I am no fan of any of these loosers we have to pick from in this election. Not one of them has what it takes to steer this country through the coming storm.

Posted by: dd | October 10, 2008 9:46 AM
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You are judged by the friends you keep. Obama will be juged by Wright, Ayers, et al.

Obama is a radical in sheep's clothing and America has realized it.

Now if only the pollsters would give a true sampling of America in their polls. Notice how they are tightening as we get closer, They will tighten even more!

Posted by: Scott | October 10, 2008 9:46 AM
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Sarah Palin's husband Todd was a member of Alaskan Independence Party. Now religious connections may be of importance, however, ties to a secessionist camp of anti-american government right wingers should be more concern.

http://www.congratstothewinners.com/2008/10/palin-is-anti-america-like-joe-vogler.html

Todd Palin's ties to the AIP are public and not disputed. The org is also considered by many White Supremacist.

Posted by: FriendlyFred | October 10, 2008 9:44 AM
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I've never understood the uproar about Rev. Wright, who was also a decorated Marine before his career as a preacher. And then all this hubbub over 3, count 'em, 3 soundbites - totaling 1 minute 40 seconds in length - over a 30-year ministry. And remember most of those sermons are archived, so there is little doubt they were searched thoroughly.

What I believe is telling here, is that Sen. Obama went to a controversial preacher, and found Jesus Christ as his personal Savior. Sen. McCain went to a controversial preacher strictly for a political endorsement. I really think that says what persons of faith need to know about these two men running for President.

Posted by: JS | October 10, 2008 9:42 AM
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While it may be fair to accuse Palin of inconsistency on Wright when one considers Muthee, the real issue here is the church/state separation. Certainly most Americans may find many of both Wright's and Muthee's religious beliefs to be repugnant. However, I've never heard of Wright espousing theocracy or dominionism, arguing that his beliefs or doctrines should be enacted into secular law.

Posted by: Tonio | October 10, 2008 9:40 AM
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As far as abortions go, we have merely gone back to pre-Judaism and pre-Christian era.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 9:38 AM
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Are pro-abortionist women against Hippocrates, the Father of Western Medicine too? Did Hippocrates have nothing nobler in his mind than "enslaving" women's bodies and taking away their "right" to kill unborn children when he forbade medical doctors from giving pessary to induce abortions? Back alley abortions was common enough in the Greek society of his day ruled by the pagan free sexual morals. Judaism and Christianity had to battle against that from the beginning.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 9:37 AM
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MoveOn.org is a grassroots organization that works in the interests of the Democratic party. They announced that they would get women to work against Governor Palin. Women who find Gov Palin's anti-abortion stand completely unacceptable were allegedly advised to band together and speak out.

Is "Women Speak Out on Palin" one of those?

It is quite amazing how "supportive" women are of other women, whom they perceive as an enemy simply because she believes in not killing unborn children! Are these women against Hippocrates, the Father of Western Medicine too? Did Hippocrates have nothing nobler in his mind than "enslaving" women's bodies and taking away their "right" to kill unborn children when he forbade medical doctors not to be involved in inducing abortion (which was rampant in his Greek society ruled by pagan morals)?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 9:24 AM
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To see real videos of real women discussing their reactions to Sarah Palin & the misuse of gender issues in this year's presidential race, please take a look at the following blog (& forward to all your friends, family & open-minded folk at large):
www.speakoutonpalin.blogspot.com

Posted by: Women Speak Out On Palin | October 10, 2008 8:48 AM
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The John Templeton Foundation should post religious-ethical-political questions at least once a month, banning posts that turns the blog into a partisan political discussion on British politics. It should remain an international non-partisan discussion that it is now.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 8:22 AM
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Governor Palin should read the news in detail when the contents of Wright's unpalatable sermons was first covered by the press. She probably missed the intensity of the coverage because she was not on the Republican ticket for VP at the time.

And yes, the voters have other urgent things on their mind. Obama's ex-pastor is not one of them.

Governor Palin should not pass up this opportunity on the national stage by focusing on non-issues and on Senator Obama. She should let the nation know about her own strengths and the strengths of Senator McCain. People will remember nothing good about her if all she talks about is Senator Obama.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2008 8:03 AM
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Because Palin has been exorcised of witchcraft by Reverend Muthee.

Posted by: Roy | October 10, 2008 7:34 AM
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