RSS Feed
Jewish Religious Imaging for Sarah Palin?
Georgetown University had the pleasure yesterday of hosting a variety of scholars, analysts, and activists at a conference devoted to the Jewish vote and the 2008 election. Many of our guests addressed issues that I have been writing about in this column and I'll discuss some of their views below. But remember that I am refracting their opinions through my own lens (and my lens is darkening at this late hour). So the opinions I attribute to them are, if you will, solely my own:
The Palin Effect: Two of the speakers observed that John McCain's selection of a running mate may have turned away Jewish voters who were once supportive of him. On Wednesday, I pointed out that this apparent "Palin Effect" has occurred despite the fact that the Governor of Alaska has made no egregious errors in her dealings with the Jewish community and has, in many cases, said the right things and cultivated the right relationships.
How might Palin rectify this problem were she to run for president in 2012? Can you say "Jewish religious imaging consultant"? One of the big stories of the 2008 election was the manner in which all the major candidates conscripted professional "Faith and Values gurus" and "religious outreach teams" to advise them on how they could better connect with given constituencies. It is not a coincidence, I think, that Barack Obama appears to have overcome the "Catholic problem" that he experienced during the primaries. Nor are the inroads he has made into the Evangelical community a mere accident.
In short, 2008 has demonstrated the strategic importance of having skilled advisers and operatives in the domain of faith-based politicking. Accordingly, nothing precludes Palin from someday reversing negative perceptions among Jewish voters. And while she's at it she might find a receptive audience because . . .
Jews are going Republican?: Speaker Ira Forman of the National Jewish Democratic Council pointed out that rumors about Jews defecting from the Democrats to head over to the GOP have been around since the time of McGovern. He views this as a "man bites dog story," of great interest to the media if only because it is so counter-intuitive. The truth of the matter is that Jews are solid, true-blue Democrats who have given the party more than 75% of their ballot in the last 4 elections.
Point well taken. I am still, however, intrigued by the slow, steady rise of Jewish support for Republican presidential candidates across the last 16 years (1992, 11%; 1996, 16%, 2000, 19%; 2004, 24%). If yet another small increase is seen on Tuesday, then the hypothesis of a gradual, Jewish shift to the Right strikes me as worthy of further scrutiny. As do suggestions that the shift is being driven by younger Jews, orthodox Jews and immigrants from the ex-Soviet Union.
Obama, McCain, and Israel: Two of my colleagues in the Program for Jewish Civilization gave sober, well-reasoned presentations on the subject of the candidates' approaches toward Israel. On the basis of an extensive comparative study of Senators Obama and McCain's platforms on Israel, Dr. Michael Oren concluded that their positions are strikingly different, not identical on the basics as is often alleged
My reading of Professor Oren's comments is that he viewed McCain's approach to Middle Eastern foreign policy as meshing better with the security interests of the Jewish State. In response to a question, he pointed to McCain's tendency to look for a bilateral resolution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict (i.e., the two parties negotiating with one another) as opposed to Obama's regional solution (i.e., involving multiple Middle East players). He did not have time to follow up on a fascinating aside that Obama's approach to Israel and the peace process more closely resembles that of the current administration than does that of McCain.
Ambassador Dennis Ross, by contrast, would see a similarity between McCain and Bush, namely an unwillingness to speak with adversaries. Ross views this as a threat to both Israeli and American security interests. Having traveled with Senator Obama on his recent trip to Europe and Israel, Ambassador Ross pointed to Obama's detailed grasp of policy complexities, his openness to views that challenge his own, and the disciplined, ego-less nature of his team as assets in high-stakes Middle East diplomacy.
Jews and abortion: Speaking in perfect compliance with the IRS 501 (c) 3 provision, the learned and engaging Dr. Rabbi Barry Freundel discussed traditional Jewish views on health care. For kicks (and knowledge) I asked the rabbi a paraphrase of the question Rick Warren put to (a puzzled) Barack Obama--"when does a baby get rights?" To which, Freundel responded that Jewish law places a premium on the health of the mother, not the developing fetus. There are, in other words, scenarios in which abortion is perfectly permissible under Jewish law (May Governor Palin's forthcoming National Jewish Outreach Director take heed).
Is the Jewish vote really that important?: Professor Yossi Shain of Georgetown's Government department made the provocative argument that polling data on Jewish voters is highly problematic and misleading. Drawing a distinction between Jewish citizens of the United States and eligible Jewish voters, Professor Shain cited the number of 2.8 million in the latter category--a number that decreases their already minor electoral significance.
Shain's observation corresponds with one that I have been making here: we should study and contemplate American Jewish voting behavior in all of its glory. But we should not overestimate its electoral import. At less than 2% of the American population (and only 3.6% of the population of Florida) Jewish-Americans do not stand to dramatically affect the outcome on November 4th.
By Jacques Berlinerblau |
October 30, 2008; 9:33 PM ET
Share: Email a Friend | 
Technorati
| Del.icio.us | Digg | Facebook
Previous: America, Re-Emerging Democracy |
Next: World Holding Its Breath
Posted by: Observer12 | November 6, 2008 7:28 AM
Report Offensive Comment
HEY YOU ALREADY SAID THAT ON THE FRONT PAGE.
I cannot believe you didn't mention Rahm Emanuel!
Rahm!!!!!! I told my husband I would vote for him a year ago!
RAHM ! OBAMA! RAHM! OBAMA!!!!!!!!!
THE KINGMAKER!!!!!
FUTURE CABINET MEMBER!
YAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RAHM EMANUEL- the genius behind the mn.
GOOGLE HIM GOOGLE HIM GOOGLE HIM!
YAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Victoria | November 6, 2008 1:06 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Crawl back into your hole, racist Astoria/Bigotoria.
Just remember the two Jews who gave up everything to make this happen, the Jews Obama thanked David Axelrod, and David Pluffe.
JEWS--Get it. Later, for you Bigotoria, anti-Jewish reacist. The Vatican couldn't defeat him, your Muslim oil lobby couldn't do, your Born Agains, your NRA, etc., etc.
Catholic/Muslim Bigotoria, go back into your hole. Later for you.
Posted by: Observer12 | November 5, 2008 4:19 PM
Report Offensive Comment
YAAAAYYYY!!!!!
BARACK OBAMA IS THE PRESIDENT ELECT!
SENATE MAJORITY
HOUSE MAJORITY
PRESIDENCY!
YA YA YAY!!!
I SO look forward to the future where our children will look back on all these
'you're a racist- No YOU are a racist' nonsense for what it is.
WHOOO HOOOO!
Posted by: Victoria | November 5, 2008 12:30 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Well, well, well, Concerned Crustaceon, looks like your bigoted antisemitic self is in for a big letdown. Better pull out the New Testicle and the Scotch.
Btw., every commentatot has remarked on the grassroots organization, the fact that this campaign was the best organized in US history, brilliant. Tribute is being paid everywhere to David Axelrod and David Plouffe, their genius, etc.
Truth is unlike what the Christofascists and Islamofascists think, the Jews have no power in this country. What they have is brains, social commitment, and a strong sense of JUSTICE. Comes from skipping the idolotry, cannibalism, etc. Guess all the bigots on this thread are getting it, albeit slowly, Astoria/Bigotoria.
Both Axelrod and Plouffe are Jews.
Posted by: Observer12 | November 4, 2008 10:11 PM
Report Offensive Comment
It took David Axelrod about sixteen years to groom Senator Obama, a fresh Harvard graduate for the presidency. That is how long it takes to prepare someone with potential for the most powerful job on earth.
The rise of conservative David Cameron in the UK must give Republicans hope that people generally tend to give political party turns in governing. It is dangerous for a democracy if one party held power forever, without any serious opposition.
The other lesson from Europe is that people choose centrist parties. Extremes are not popular among the majority, although pockets may have special interests.
So extremist parties must split from centrist groups and form separate parties in order to fight for their special causes. They could then form coalitions with the party of their choice.
Extremists mingled with moderates in the Republicans gives the whole party a bad name and drive away moderates of all shapes. In most Wester n democracies centrist parties are not so different, so that make it easier for people to switch sides and give each party a turn. Extremists join one side or the other after the election after having put forward their special interests forcefully during the election campaign.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 4, 2008 9:49 PM
Report Offensive Comment
If we get four more years without health care, with more layoffs, with more bloodshed in Iraq--in short if we have another disastrous Republican administration, we'll all know where to look--right at the Vatican and all the Catholodroids of America, along with the right-wing Protestants, their partners in crime.
Posted by: Observer12 | November 4, 2008 2:54 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Many anti-Catholics are of the opinion The Vatican State should be sold and the money given to the poor of the world.
Two suggestions:
1. Sell Saudi Arabia and distribute the money to poor Muslims around the world;
2. Sell the US and distribute the wealth to all developing nations. US wealth should provide a little more than $ 1.00 per head.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 4, 2008 4:24 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Another Bill being sent out tomorrow:
From: Humanity
To: The Vatican Bank
For: Monies/gold previously deposited by whatever notorious groups (Nazis, KKK, Communists, Muslims, Hamas)
Cost: Jury awards
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 4, 2008 4:10 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Concerned Christian:
Are you comfortable? Is your fat butt settled nicely in a cushioned chair? How about a little by your well-fed self?
http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/
Alperin v. Vatican Bank was originally filed in Federal Court in San Francisco in November 1999. The plaintiffs are concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relatives as well as organizations representing over 300,000 Holocaust victims and their heirs.
The plaintiffs seek an accounting and restitution of the Ustasha Treasury that according to the US State Department was illicitly transferred to the Vatican, the Franciscan Order and other banks after the end of the war.
Defendants currently include the Vatican Bank and Franciscan Order. These defendants combined to conceal assets looted by the Croatian Nazis from concentration camp victims, Serbs, Jews, Roma and others between 1941-1945.
_______________________________
Posted by: Observer12 | November 4, 2008 1:25 AM
Report Offensive Comment
The now dead dictator of the wretchedly poor Ivory Coast (life expectancy for males is fifty, for females lower) raided the national treasury to build the largest Cathedral in the world in cahoots with the Vatican under John Paul III whose shenangins in this are documented at this site:
http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?kb_header_id=17841
Some details:
A concordat was made especially for “the basilica in the bush”. The church is modelled on the pope's cathedral, but was planned to top it. The concordat removes money from this desperately poor country for the upkeep of the huge and empty basilica.
This concordat protects the foundation that endows the largest church in the world - an African dictator’s answer to St. Peter's Basilica. (After some jostling, a compromise was reached : the top of St. Peter's in Rome is a bit higher, but Our Lady of Yamoussoukro has a tall cross on top of it, making it higher overall.)
It was a private arrangement made with the ailing President Félix Houphouët-Boigny who died the next year. This concordat
* needed no ratification (Article 16 )
* keeps the church finances beyond the reach of both criminal and civil law (Art. 7.1)
* ensures that its income and assets remain untaxed (Art. 9.1),
* keeps all its documents "inviolable"(Art. 8).
Holding the financial documents secret is a canny move, since the cathedral cost some £87 million ($150 million), which the dictator raided from the national treasury. A Vatican official is reported to have said, "The size and expense of the building in such a poor country make it a delicate matter”.[1] Hence the face-saving mention of amenities like a hospital “which may be freely associated with it” (Art. 2). No guarantees, of course. However, when blessing the completed cathedral (10 September 1990), the John Paul II also laid the foundation stone for the hospital. That allowed him to take the money and shove off all responsibility for “possible eventualities” like a hospital. This consecrated stone now lies alone in a nearby field. The hospital has not been built [2], as the money accepted by the Vatican is only for the cathedral. And his ceremonial laying of the stone “proves” that he had no idea whatsoever, that the hospital would never be built….
Posted by: Observer12 | November 4, 2008 1:08 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Part II
Despite the fact that the average Ivorian dies before the age of fifty [3], the Church is holding onto the money which was siphoned from the national treasury. Medical matters are not its responsibility -- but, of course, for spiritual emergencies, the cathedral is provided with its own helopad. [4]
St. Peter’s in Rome was under construction for over a century, but President Félix Houphouët-Boigny, managed to complete his cathedral in three years. It’s been suggested that the President who was eighty when the construction began, wanted an impressive setting for a grand state funeral. (It can hardly have been built for the 15 % of the population that is Catholic.) And indeed, the gigantic building is said to only have been filled twice: for its inauguration by John Paul II and then for the funeral of its builder three years later.
The President also appears to have been concerned with the Hereafter. When asked about the source of this money, he reportedly replied: "I did a deal with God, and you wouldn’t expect me to discuss God’s business in public, would you?" [5]
This concordat ensures that neither he nor the Vatican Bank will ever have to.
Posted by: Observer12 | November 4, 2008 1:00 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Bills being sent out tomorrow in no special order:
1. From: the people of the Ivory Coast
To: the Government of the Ivory Coast
For: the Basilica of Our Lady of Yamoussoukro
Cost: $150 million
2. From: the taxpayers of the United States of America
To: the Government of Israel
For: Military assistance and humanitarian aid for the years 2001 to 2006
Cost: $18 Billion
3. From: the taxpayers of the United States of America
To: the Government of Egypt
For: Military assistance and humanitarian aid for the years 2001 to 2006
Cost: $12 Billion
4. From: the taxpayers of the United States of America
To: the Government of Iraq
For: Military and rebuilding assistance due to the Sunni-Shiite civil war.
Cost: $500 Billion
5. From: the 150,000 Canaanite slaves of Solomon
For: The Jewish Temple in Jerusalem
To: King Solomon and his heirs
Cost: $151,549,984
References: See Google
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 4, 2008 12:19 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Although hundreds of articles have been written in the course of the political campaign leading up to the election, the really good ones, with depth and intellectual rigor and non-partisan, expressing fairness, have been very few.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 3, 2008 11:03 PM
Report Offensive Comment
SPARROW4:
Although my political leanings are clearly liberal, I'm anti-abortion for convenience; I'm anti mania worship of politicians, especially if it is based on personality alone; I'm anti demonizing candidates from other political parties one doesn't happen to support for whatever reason...
Maybe it is hard to understand, but not if you understand what it means to be skeptical of politics in general and partisan political frenzy in particular.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 3, 2008 10:59 PM
Report Offensive Comment
sparrow4 on November 3, 2008 11:07 AM:
anon- i have no idea what you're ranting about regarding Obama. I was responding to your comments that he didn't have to spend a dime and how McCain/Palin are fighting the "good fight"
If you could learn to write clearly perhaps you wouldn't be so confusing but let me make this very clear- Obama worked for every vote he gets. He has tenacity, vision, clarity and common sense. Anyone who could pick Sarah Palin as a running mate for the second highest (and possibly to become the highest) position in the country lacks all of those characteristics, most especially common sense.
Obama has inspired the country- look at the voting lines- anyone who could inspire people to wait up to 8 hours to vote for President has got to be some candidate. we're not voting for a messiah- contrary to republican claims - we're voting to change the course of this country and reclaim her for the great country she was and will be again. Look at the last 8 years and tell me we don't need change.
***
You do two political consultant geniuses great injustice - David Axelrod & David Pflouffe. Both are businessmen, media and political consultants. David Axelrod groomed Senator Obama over several years and David Pflouffe joined in to set up the most efficient grass roots money collecting and vote canvassing machine in American history. Money, in amounts as small as $5.00, from as many people as possible, from millions of people, is being collected right up to the time people walk up to the polling booths, with the promise of having a chance to attend Inauguration Day.
Senator Obama has had a large team of experts coordinating his election campaign. All of them deserve credit, even if their names are not mentioned and they work behind the scenes.
I expect an Obama Administration to do good work, but I will wait until it has actually done the work to give it credit. Obama is no doubt a good politician. I just don't buy the political messiah stuff. Election promises are just election promises until they are realized.
The Democrats controlled the Congress for the past two years. The Wall Street crash to be blamed on Republicans alone?
Posted by: Anonymous | November 3, 2008 10:24 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Once again:
Pawan Singh to Jihadist:
"And please, no jokes or jibes about Muslim fundamentalists and godless Chinese socialist/communists being call upon to give more funds to IMF to save the bankrupt, outmoded, under-regulated and under-monitored financial institutions and, by extention, the financial system and capitalism. The world has already gone red (from anger) white (from fear) and blue (from talking) in the face on this financial crisis that spread like a cancer, a virus globally."
Yeah. And bankers like you benefited from it.
November 3, 2008 3:42 PM | Report Offensive Comment
Over and out.
Observer12
Posted by: Observer12 | November 3, 2008 6:33 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Once again and to be read from the bottom up.
Jihadist,
By your reasoning, every time an issue concerning Muslims comes up, Farnaz and others should mention the Jews killed and exiled by them, going country to country. And there's a lot more that they could say....
November 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Report Offensive Comment
Posted on November 3, 2008 15:20
Observer12:
Jihadist,
You do know where the Ivory Coast is, I'm assuming, and what the standard of living is like there, don't you?
You do know what Farnaz's posts and all the links posted by her, Anon, and me are about...
November 3, 2008 3:17 PM | Report Offensive Comment
Posted on November 3, 2008 15:17
Observer12:
Jihadist,
You're right that a lot is being forgotten, notably the Thai about whom Farnaz and now a couple of others endlessly post.
I'm sorry, but I don't see what the Palestinian Muslims have to do with Farnaz's posts to CCNL. We all know what's happening to the Palestinian Christians, whoever among them is left. They've been fleeing into Israel and the West.
Still, this has nothing to do with Farnaz's posts or mine, which you address. Nor does her plight as one of three million driven out of the Muslim countries in which they lived since the Middle Ages. Some are still trapped there as are the Bahai and some Christians. No one asks about or gives a darn about them or the Ethiopian Jews, 3,00,000 remaining in Ethiopia.
Still, this has nothing to do with my post or Farnaz's, no more than the AmerIndians do. Her post to CCNL is quite specific as is mine. Do you have anything to say concerning the contents of what I've written? If so, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
Over and almost out.
Observer12
Posted by: Observer12 | November 3, 2008 6:32 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Once again :
It's the globalised financial situation and possible economic downturn to be addressed.
Or bagels (the chewy bread) and croissants (the flaky bread) would become luxury items; there would not be enough funds to give humanitarian assistance to groups in need; there would not be enough funds to compensate groups deprived or expeled from their lands in history and now...among other things we all can do if we all have jobs and money to do this and that.
Cheers and ciao.
J
Posted by: Jihadist | November 3, 2008 6:29 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Once again:
What's up with CCNL? Would someone please help him because he's a remedial reader? Farnaz's posts aren't about "compensation," as he thinks. So help the poor remedial bigot, someone, please.
Or maybe, CCNL, you just don't like it that the Vatican took food out of the hands of starving people on the Ivory coast a few years ago?
Or that they looted the Serbs, Jews, and Ukranians while they were in Concentration Camps and that they're keeping the money in Vatican Bank?
What are you saying, christian? That it's the victims' fault? Well, that's your way, the way with you christians, isn't it? Kill'm and blame'm because you killed'em. Or, kill'm and blame'm when they fight back.
Ask me why I left the church, Bagel.
Btw., Farnaz strikes me as the type who's always going to fight back, AND GUESS WHAT, Bagel, I and others on this thread are just like her. So, if you and your compadres don't like to hear about what you've done, keep your bigotry to yourself.
Posted by: Observer12 | November 3, 2008 5:30 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Once again:
Eliminate the paranormal in all religions/cults and there will be a rapid convergence of what few beliefs are left.
Popes, bishops, priests, imams, clerics, rabbis, evangelicals and witches have been living off the paranormal much too long. Time to "pink slip" all of them!!!!
And are we not all the sons and daughters of the historic Adam? Hmmm, where did all the hate come from then?? Hmmm, much comes from The two Worst Books Ever Written i.e. the koran and bible??? Absolutely!!!
Time for a rewrite of both. Once the paranormal entries are removed, what will be left?? Not Much!!!!!!
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 3, 2008 5:19 PM
Report Offensive Comment
"And please, no jokes or jibes about Muslim fundamentalists and godless Chinese socialist/communists being call upon to give more funds to IMF to save the bankrupt, outmoded, under-regulated and under-monitored financial institutions and, by extention, the financial system and capitalism. The world has already gone red (from anger) white (from fear) and blue (from talking) in the face on this financial crisis that spread like a cancer, a virus globally."
Yeah. And bankers like you benefited from it.
Posted by: Pawan Singh | November 3, 2008 3:42 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Jihadist,
By your reasoning, every time an issue concerning Muslims comes up, Farnaz and others should mention the Jews killed and exiled by them, going country to country. And there's a lot more that they could say....
Posted by: Observer12 | November 3, 2008 3:20 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Jihadist,
You do know where the Ivory Coast is, I'm assuming, and what the standard of living is like there, don't you?
You do know what Farnaz's posts and all the links posted by her, Anon, and me are about...
Posted by: Observer12 | November 3, 2008 3:17 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Jihadist,
You're right that a lot is being forgotten, notably the Thai about whom Farnaz and now a couple of others endlessly post.
I'm sorry, but I don't see what the Palestinian Muslims have to do with Farnaz's posts to CCNL. We all know what's happening to the Palestinian Christians, whoever among them is left. They've been fleeing into Israel and the West.
Still, this has nothing to do with Farnaz's posts or mine, which you address. Nor does her plight as one of three million driven out of the Muslim countries in which they lived since the Middle Ages. Some are still trapped there as are the Bahai and some Christians. No one asks about or gives a darn about them or the Ethiopian Jews, 3,00,000 remaining in Ethiopia.
Still, this has nothing to do with my post or Farnaz's, no more than the AmerIndians do. Her post to CCNL is quite specific as is mine. Do you have anything to say concerning the contents of what I've written? If so, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
Posted by: Observer12 | November 3, 2008 3:14 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Palin's problems with Jews cannot be solved by an imaging consultant. That was for her wardrobe. What Jews don't like is her smug religiosity -- her sense that people of her faith have all the answers and that God is on her side. Her insistence on injecting religion into the public sphere is what is scary to Jews, who need to continue to fight for the separation of church and state. Even if she says the right things about Israel, Jews have reason to be frightened of Palin's us against them mentality and her repetition of the words "Christian" and "values" in her stump speeches. Jews don't believe that God is voting Republican tomorrow --indeed, they may not believe that he's voting at all.
Posted by: fmjk | November 3, 2008 3:06 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Hello Observer12,
To have a fight with CCNL? Concy Pussycat? Why?
To engage in battles and wars, one has to have lots of time for it and for nothing else.
As for For aid to Palestine/Palestinians, one would think right now that is very, very low in priority. Gordon Brown, British prime minister, was busy going around to ask Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states and China, Japan etc, those flushed with foreign reserves and sovereign wealth funds, to give more to IMF fund to assist countries affected by the financial crisis.
And the Federal Reserve gave some USD 30 billion each in credit lines to the central banks of Brazil, Mexico, Singapore and South Korea. Some USD 120 billion. So, thus far, the US aided some of its allies or economically strategic countries globally directly, and leaving the IMF to bail out the likes of Iceland, Hungary and Ukraine who asked its assistance.
While the US is awaiting for history to happen with hope of and for "change" if Obama is elected, there is real history and change going on in the global financial sector - the world needs a new global financial architecture, the BWIs needs to be reformed to reflect the new reality of emerging economies in its voting and representation.
And please, no jokes or jibes about Muslim fundamentalists and godless Chinese socialist/communists being call upon to give more funds to IMF to save the bankrupt, outmoded, under-regulated and under-monitored financial institutions and, by extention, the financial system and capitalism. The world has already gone red (from anger) white (from fear) and blue (from talking) in the face on this financial crisis that spread like a cancer, a virus globally.
And the US presidential election campaign by all candidates cost only over USD 2 billion. More important to me is the 15 November 2008 meeting of G20 countries in Washington on the globalised financial crisis. A new Washington Consensus? Or not?
Whoever wins the US presidential election is facing a changed world. For starters, no funds without fairer representation in the Bretton Woods Institution? And everyone is forgetting humanitarian aid for everyeone from Congons to Palestinians. And the Israeli government decided not to support Isreali illegal settlers anymore. There is still hope of countries and people doing the right thing, pursuing the Right Path.
..and I love that McCain skit on Saturday Night Life fed globally by TV and the Net.
Cheers
J
Posted by: Jihadist | November 3, 2008 2:58 PM
Report Offensive Comment
What's up with CCNL? Would someone please help him because he's a remedial reader? Farnaz's posts aren't about "compensation," as he thinks. So help the poor remedial bigot, someone, please.
Or maybe, CCNL, you just don't like it that the Vatican took food out of the hands of starving people on the Ivory coast a few years ago? Or that they looted the Serbs, Jews, and Ukranians while they were in Concentration Camps and that they're keeping the money in Vatican Bank?
What are you saying, christian? That it's the victims' fault? Well, that's your way, the way with you christians, isn't it? Kill'm and blame'm because you killed'em. Or, kill'm and blame'm when they fight back.
Ask me why I left the church, Bagel.
Btw., Farnaz strikes me as the type who's always going to fight back, AND GUESS WHAT, Bagel, I and others on this thread are just like her. So, if you and your compadres don't like to hear about what you've done, keep your bigotry to yourself.
Posted by: Observer12 | November 3, 2008 1:56 PM
Report Offensive Comment
anon- i have no idea what you're ranting about regarding Obama. I was responding to your comments that he didn't have to spend a dime and how McCain/Palin are fighting the "good fight"
If you could learn to write clearly perhaps you wouldn't be so confusing but let me make this very clear- Obama worked for every vote he gets. He has tenacity, vision, clarity and common sense. Anyone who could pick Sarah Palin as a running mate for the second highest (and possibly to become the highest) position in the country lacks all of those characteristics, most especially common sense.
Obama has inspired the country- look at the voting lines- anyone who could inspire people to wait up to 8 hours to vote for President has got to be some candidate. we're not voting for a messiah- contrary to republican claims - we're voting to change the course of this country and reclaim her for the great country she was and will be again. Look at the last 8 years and tell me we don't need change.
Posted by: sparrow4 | November 3, 2008 11:07 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Someone please compensate Farnaz's current and past family members for the whatever she and her kind have suffered from the last 60,000 years. And please remember the rest of us once you have finished.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 3, 2008 7:14 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Someone please compensate Farnaz's current and past family members for the whatever she and her kind has suffered from the last 60,000 years. And please remember the rest of us once you have finished.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 3, 2008 3:51 AM
Report Offensive Comment
obama:
I'm guessing your rant was paid for by the McCain for President group. You surely haven't done Sen. Obama any good, nor spoken well for christians.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 3, 2008 1:54 AM
Report Offensive Comment
*you canot put a good man down*
despite the fact and the *historical reality* that i ideologicaly born suckled nourished and raised in juchristiansecularcapitalistic america ,despite the fact that i,m one of the ideological sons and intelctual heirs of america still people are *accusing* me not only of being a muslim but a socialist as well????????????
i tel yo people and please pay attention to this reality of life in a juchristiansecularcapitalistic america yo will never get no president other than a juchristiasnsecularcapitalistic he/she may be muslim-christian-jew in name but in heart and mind and action is a juchristiansecularcapitalistic
mcain is trying to turn america into a christian nation, a job jhone the baptist tryied to accomplish long time ago and failed.
in order to acomplish a christian nation wich is not bad yo need a ground and a mentality change yo need to abolish secularism and capitalism a serious huge change, juchristiansecularcapitalistic america in not reay for let alone willing to.
Posted by: obama | November 3, 2008 1:42 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Farnaz- "How are these things possible? Surely, you cannot see any rightness in them."
Worse is possible. Worse has happened, is happening.
You look at Luther's "The Jews and Their Lies," but, of course, you know where his hatred came from, his Catholic training, forebears, of course. This hatred informs the Christian soul. They can't help it; it's who they are. Not all of them, but most,it would seem, and, as you know, they exported their sickness to the Muslim world, probably to take attention off their imperialist designs. Not that they're fond of Muslims, nor that the antipathy isn't mutual.
You're a courageous, non-apologetic Jew, Farnaz, whether you're a believer or not. I admire your guts and self-confidence, especially, in light of what you've been through. Nothing can stop you, my friend. Your daughter is fortunate to have such a mother.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 3, 2008 1:26 AM
Report Offensive Comment
CCNL:
How are these things possible? Surely, you cannot see any rightness in them.
Posted by: Farnaz | November 3, 2008 12:56 AM
Report Offensive Comment
CCNL:
Continued from previous post:
Despite the fact that the average Ivorian dies before the age of fifty [3], the Church is holding onto the money which was siphoned from the national treasury. Medical matters are not its responsibility -- but, of course, for spiritual emergencies, the cathedral is provided with its own helopad. [4]
St. Peter’s in Rome was under construction for over a century, but President Félix Houphouët-Boigny, managed to complete his cathedral in three years. It’s been suggested that the President who was eighty when the construction began, wanted an impressive setting for a grand state funeral. (It can hardly have been built for the 15 % of the population that is Catholic.) And indeed, the gigantic building is said to only have been filled twice: for its inauguration by John Paul II and then for the funeral of its builder three years later.
The President also appears to have been concerned with the Hereafter. When asked about the source of this money, he reportedly replied: "I did a deal with God, and you wouldn’t expect me to discuss God’s business in public, would you?" [5]
This concordat ensures that neither he nor the Vatican Bank will ever have to.
Posted by: Farnaz | November 3, 2008 12:53 AM
Report Offensive Comment
CCNL:
From Concordat Watch, an interesting link. You really can go there yourself:
A concordat was made especially for “the basilica in the bush”. The church is modelled on the pope's cathedral, but was planned to top it. The concordat removes money from this desperately poor country for the upkeep of the huge and empty basilica.
This concordat protects the foundation that endows the largest church in the world - an African dictator’s answer to St. Peter's Basilica. (After some jostling, a compromise was reached : the top of St. Peter's in Rome is a bit higher, but Our Lady of Yamoussoukro has a tall cross on top of it, making it higher overall.)
It was a private arrangement made with the ailing President Félix Houphouët-Boigny who died the next year. This concordat
* needed no ratification (Article 16 )
* keeps the church finances beyond the reach of both criminal and civil law (Art. 7.1)
* ensures that its income and assets remain untaxed (Art. 9.1),
* keeps all its documents "inviolable"(Art. 8).
Holding the financial documents secret is a canny move, since the cathedral cost some £87 million ($150 million), which the dictator raided from the national treasury. A Vatican official is reported to have said, "The size and expense of the building in such a poor country make it a delicate matter”.[1] Hence the face-saving mention of amenities like a hospital “which may be freely associated with it” (Art. 2). No guarantees, of course. However, when blessing the completed cathedral (10 September 1990), the John Paul II also laid the foundation stone for the hospital. That allowed him to take the money and shove off all responsibility for “possible eventualities” like a hospital. This consecrated stone now lies alone in a nearby field. The hospital has not been built [2], as the money accepted by the Vatican is only for the cathedral. And his ceremonial laying of the stone “proves” that he had no idea whatsoever, that the hospital would never be built….
Posted by: Farnaz | November 3, 2008 12:53 AM
Report Offensive Comment
CCNL:
Just in case you don't get to the Vatican Bank lawsuit link, I've done a bit of cutting and pasting for you:
_________________________
Alperin v. Vatican Bank was originally filed in Federal Court in San Francisco in November 1999. The plaintiffs are concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relatives as well as organizations representing over 300,000 Holocaust victims and their heirs.
The plaintiffs seek an accounting and restitution of the Ustasha Treasury that according to the US State Department was illicitly transferred to the Vatican, the Franciscan Order and other banks after the end of the war.
Defendants currently include the Vatican Bank and Franciscan Order. These defendants combined to conceal assets looted by the Croatian Nazis from concentration camp victims, Serbs, Jews, Roma and others between 1941-1945.
_______________________________
If this suit has merit, is there anything in this world that can justify what the Vatican and Franciscan Order are accused of?
Posted by: Farnaz | November 3, 2008 12:48 AM
Report Offensive Comment
CCNL:
Re: Your post
There have been attempts at various forms of compensation for African Americans, primarily in the form of Affirmative Action with respect to employment and eduction, often involving scholarships and special programs. Was it enough?
Probably not.
And what of those dispossessed persons such as yours truly, in whose dispossession this great country played a part, and whose dispossession, along with that of the other three million is ignored? Still?
None of this is to the point, however, since Anon's link on those suing the Vatican does not concern compensation. Neither do the links posted by Observer12 and yours truly.
http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/
http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?kb_header_id=17841
Posted by: Farnaz | November 3, 2008 12:14 AM
Report Offensive Comment
I believe most African Americans in the USA are of slave descent. Most Caucasian Americans are of serf descent. Should we send a bill to the kings and queens of Europe?
For aide to Palestine, see
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/60396.pdf
Google "Palestine aide" in combination with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia could build a nice villa for all the Muslims in the Middle East with their oil profits. One wonders why they don't. Could be a Sunni vs Shiite thing???
Might also contact the UN about Palestine compensation since they estabalished the state of Israel in 1948. One assumes there were compensation provisions made by the UN.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 3, 2008 12:06 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Anon, Oddly Familiar,
I see no "Catholic bashing." Yet, although there are NO Jews on the ticket, I've seen quite a bit of Jew bashing, not only on this thread, but on Jacques' previous one, and often enough, on other threads--all over this blog. Why?
Posted by: Farnaz | November 2, 2008 11:48 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Senator Biden is the only Catholic on the presidential race ticket this time, and he is the "personally opposed, but" Catholic variety on abortion. So why the Catholic bashing?
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 11:38 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Non-Racist Anon,
Read it and weep for the people of impoverished Ivory Coast.
http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?kb_header_id=17841
___________________________________________
Bonsoir Observer12,
Je ne savais aussi rien de ce procès. Horrible, almost unthinkable, unspeakable. If there is merit in this lawsuit, then like the Swiss, they have effectively removed themselves from the community of nations.
Posted by: Farnaz | November 2, 2008 10:33 PM
Report Offensive Comment
SPARROW4:
A long drawn election campaign in which a candidate is marketed by marketing experts and policies are drawn out by respective experts in their field does not count as *personal* achievement, even if it counts as political achievement.
Senator Obama is a great politician because he is able to inspire and is able to build consensus. Millions of people are donating millions of dollars to his campaign. He inspires people to give generously of their time and money to elect him.
But the truly great giants do not become great because they are marketed as great. They achieve greatness with their unique work and the knowledge of their achievements gives them fame.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 10:24 PM
Report Offensive Comment
SPARROW4:
It might be somewhat difficult for you to grasp how it is possible for a person to see merit in liberal economic policies, be anti-abortion for convenience, and still retain the ability NOT to blindly hero worship anyone, not even someone who runs on a liberal political ticket, whether black or white.
There are black Americans running on the Republican ticket. So the theory anyone who does not hero worship a black American presidential candidate because millions do, does not do it because of his color, is reverse racism.
People are worshiping the personality of Senator Obama, not his real achievements. One cannot worship future achievements. Senator Obama has been marketed like Coca Cola for the past four years. Some buy into that kind of advertisements. I don't. I am waiting for his real achievements as President before making up my mind how much admiration I owe him.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 10:12 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Anon,
I followed your link on the lawsuit, knew nothing of it. Several ethnic groups are involved, btw., Racist Anon.
Speaking of following the money, one good turn deserves another:
http://concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=872&kb_header_id=824
Posted by: Observer12 | November 2, 2008 10:10 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Follow the money.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 10:06 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Posts are being deleted as USUAL!
Native Americans and black African Americans of slave descent have not been compensated.
How do they follow the money?
Does the creation of Israel count as compensation to the Jews?
How are the Palestinians being compensated?
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 9:59 PM
Report Offensive Comment
"Times are Changing for Minorities"
"Alex Rodriguez makes more this year than his hometown Florida Marlins.
Boosted by his new deal with the New York Yankees, A-Rod tops the major league baseball salary list at $28 million, according to a study of contract terms by The Associated Press. The 33 players on the Marlins' opening-day roster and disabled list total $21.8 million."
"The most recent Indian gaming statistics, provided by the National Indian Gaming Commission (NIGC), indicate that there are approximately 400 Indian gaming establishments in the United States. These casinos are operated by approximately 220 federally recognized tribes and offer Class I, Class II and Class III gaming opportunities. The revenues generated in these establishments is close to $18.5 billion.
"With close to $800 million in total earnings on and off the course over his 13-year career, Tiger should become the first billion-dollar athlete in the next two years -- and he's still only 32."
Then Google the incomes of:
Oprah Winfrey
Michael Jordan
Floyd Mayweather
Derek Jeter
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
And the rest of the minority stars of the NBA, NFL and American/National Leagues, movies, and the music world.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 2, 2008 9:58 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Eliminate the paranormal in all religions/cults and there will be a rapid convergence of what few beliefs are left.
Popes, bishops, imams, clerics, rabbis, evangelicals and witches have been living off the paranormal much too long. Time to "pink slip" all of them!!!!
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 2, 2008 11:13 AM
Report Offensive Comment
"Senator Obama didn't need to spend a single cent on his ads, the media have been giving him free ads for four solid years.
What Senator McCain and Governor Palin have achieved is because of a real fighting spirit that does not give up.
I write this even as a liberal leaning apolitical observer."
You're kidding, right? I rewrote your sentence because frankly, it seems so obvious:"I write this even as a liberal leaning apolitical but racist observer.
Posted by: sparrow4 | November 2, 2008 9:10 AM
Report Offensive Comment
jews and christianity.
jews are the scholars of christianity ,they scholar- fictioned paul and the son of god myth.
so the affect /effect of jews in us is not limited to 1.5 % ,you realy need to consider the ideological % not the physical voting heads %.
juchristianity is the mother and scholars of secularism ,just look and study the history of secularism ,who is the founding fathers of secularism ?where they came from ?on what breast suckled and nourished?
it,s so funny,
in juchristiansecular melting pot america, people are trying to distinguish each other from each other while each is part and parcel of each other except that real buttress is the money .
Posted by: juchristian | November 2, 2008 6:01 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Follow the money.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 1:04 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Senator McCain and Governor Palin should be applauded for their fighting spirit. They have stayed the course and fought the good fight even with most of the media pitted against them. That the gap is not bigger than it is, is the real wonder.
Senator Obama didn't need to spend a single cent on his ads, the media have been giving him free ads for four solid years.
What Senator McCain and Governor Palin have achieved is because of a real fighting spirit that does not give up.
I write this even as a liberal leaning apolitical observer.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 12:42 AM
Report Offensive Comment
The media chose Senator Obama as President in 2004 after DNC.
The next four years was spent convincing the public.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 12:22 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Follow the money, follow the power wielded by any community.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 2, 2008 12:20 AM
Report Offensive Comment
The important fact is not that Jews make up 2% of the population - its that they make up a huge percntage of those who fund the parties and politicans (70% Of the Democrats funds come from Jewish sources)
Posted by: Me | November 1, 2008 9:38 PM
Report Offensive Comment
The Jewish population in the USA is 1.5% so again why all this discussion about the Jewish voting bloc?????
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 1, 2008 4:40 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Testing....1 2 3....
Is the evil and bada** WaPo censoring again? Or is their robot filter gone psychotic?
Posted by: Arminius | November 1, 2008 4:00 PM
Report Offensive Comment
WHY IS EVERYTHING ON EVERY THREAD BEING HELD FOR APPROVAL?
Posted by: Farnaz | November 1, 2008 3:19 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Unless you haven't been reading the news, there are plenty of Israelis who want Obama to win. In fact people all over the world are hoping he wins- even our enemies recognize the enormous danger of a demoralized, floundering America. Heck- they've had 8 years to see.
And I gotta wonder where 75-80% of the Jewish vote going to Obama is coming from? It isn't secular, moderate or reform Jews only, you know. Still, as I say, anyone who would vote for Israel's security over the US is no American, or Jew in my book. And if those numbers can't convince some of the right wingers who post here that American Jews are Americans first, nothing will. I'd like to remind them however, antisemitism, and any bigotry in fact, is very un Christ-like. (Remember him? Jewish guy, over 2000 years ago?)
Posted by: sparrow4 | November 1, 2008 2:38 PM
Report Offensive Comment
From my anecdotal experience here in the Los Angeles area, the increasing Republican support among Jews is largely due to increasing immigration. . . particularly Israeli immigration. This turned very strongly after 911 and is seen in your numbers on the 2004 election.
Previously staunch liberal voters, still professing the same preferences on most social and economic issues, switched to Republican support solely on the basis of security and Israel issues.
Posted by: emgersh | November 1, 2008 1:14 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Why McCain Will Be Defeated – From New Sarah Palin For Pres in 2012 Website
Start Today For Real Conservative Victory Within the GOP in 2010/12
Feel free to read, comment, quote or link to the 800 word essay on
http://www.palin4pres2012.com/
Posted by: Ron | November 1, 2008 12:51 PM
Report Offensive Comment
A complete rewrite of the two Worst Books Ever Written i.e. the koran and the bible will go a long way in eliminating the Palestine-Israel-Jerusalem problem.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | November 1, 2008 8:31 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Comments getting held for approval is one thing. That happens because of the programming. But comments that cross that barrier and disappear AFTER it appears on the blog and THEN disappears is quite another,especially if the comments have been critical of the panelist in a serious way, not the kind of ridiculous rants of Spiderman2, which no sane person would bother to take seriously. I don't even bother to read them anymore because it starts with calling everyone idiots, is filled with the most bizarre hate filled rants and is peppered with calling everyone idiots every second sentence or so.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 1, 2008 3:25 AM
Report Offensive Comment
I don't know- it's happened to me too, it goes to hold for approval, then never shows up in my case. But it happens so randomly I think its a program glitch more than anything else. I notice each blog runs differently. I rarely see any censorship- I mean considering how intense the conversations get- spidey gets through all the time and he has said really heinous stuff. If he's allowed to post, and even his worst stuff stays up, I can't see why you, anon and Victoria would be censored.
You can contact David waters (scroll down to the bottom of the main page) and ask him about it. He's very nice.
Posted by: sparrow4 | November 1, 2008 2:04 AM
Report Offensive Comment
I guess it is up to the moderators discretion- or lack thereof-
Posted by: Victoria | November 1, 2008 1:54 AM
Report Offensive Comment
It happens so often on this thread, that when it is held for approval, I go back one page and DO NOT click on the back to homepge link- (where the comments disappear), then copy them- maybe I'll post them tomorrow-
Posted by: Victoria | November 1, 2008 1:52 AM
Report Offensive Comment
What about the well considered and well constructed critical comments that did appear and disappeared after a few minutes?
Posted by: Anonymous | November 1, 2008 1:39 AM
Report Offensive Comment
O, and then they just disappear- it has happened several times- it seems only very small sentences get through- this has happened to me several times on this particular thread-
Posted by: Victoria | November 1, 2008 1:32 AM
Report Offensive Comment
I've been trying to post since this afternoon, and every one is being held for approval.
Go to the polls on Tuesday.
peace
Posted by: Victoria | November 1, 2008 1:29 AM
Report Offensive Comment
It is not the support for Senator Obama that is the concern. It is the mania accompanying it, which takes leave of critical faculties, deifying Obama and demonizing McCain-Palin in every possible way.
Such blind mania is a dangerous thing for any healthy democracy.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 1, 2008 12:43 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Sparrow4, a few of my comments did appear and were deleted after a few minutes. It causes me serious concern. If the intention was to stop anyone from making serious, carefully considered comments, the purpose has been amply fulfilled. Nobody wants to take the time to compose serious comments only to have them promptly deleted.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 1, 2008 12:32 AM
Report Offensive Comment
anon- deleted, or they just never appeared?
Posted by: sparrow4 | November 1, 2008 12:14 AM
Report Offensive Comment
...testing
Posted by: Anonymous | November 1, 2008 12:14 AM
Report Offensive Comment
But one does not get to read the prolific Spiderman2 here. Either he is not posting or his comments are getting promptly deleted. If his objections get deleted too, there is no way to know.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:04 PM
Report Offensive Comment
The kind of critical comments that do not seem to get deleted are meaningless rants that nobody would take seriously anyway, Spiderman2 for example.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:02 PM
Report Offensive Comment
AFTER READING ALL THE THOUSANDS OF PARTISAN COMMENTS I KNOW NOW WHY POLITICS HAS ALWAYS BEEN CONSIDERED A DIRTY GAME AND MOST REAL INTELLECTUAL PREFER TO STAY OUT OF IT.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 9:38 PM
Report Offensive Comment
FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION ON THE BLOG OF BERLINERBLAU?
SURE, AS ALONG AS THE COMMENTS DON'T DIFFER FROM HIS AGENDA.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 9:34 PM
Report Offensive Comment
I DO NOT BELONG TO ANY POLITICAL PARTY. MY POLITICAL LEANINGS ARE CLEARLY LIBERAL ALTHOUGH I'M ANTI-ABORTION EXCEPT FOR THE HARD CASES.
MY COMMENTS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN WITH THE HONESTY AND ANALYTICAL RIGOR OF A REAL CRITIC OF POLITICS, WITHOUT POLITICAL PANDERING, AND FAIR TO ALL CANDIDATES. I HAVE USED NO OBSCENE LANGUAGE OR INSULTED ANYONE.
YET SEVERAL OF THEM HAVE BEEN DELETED ON THE BLOG OF JACQUES BERLINERBLAU ALONE!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 9:26 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Victoria: What is needed is a real discussion on working for real negotations, and the South African Peace Model has succeeded admirably in this respect.
Janet: If you're referring to "Peace and Reconciliation," it has been a disaster.
October 31, 2008 3:16 PM | Report Offensive Comment
Posted on October 31, 2008 15:16
Victoria: Notice how every posts ends up being centered on Israel.
Janet: I've noticed and I'm noticing it again in your posts. I find it offensive and racist.
Victoria: Israel is not America, and one's loyalties should be to one's country first.
Janet: The majority who raise it are self-proclaimed Christians and a small minority of proclaimed Muslims such as you. Are you saying that your loyalty should be to America first and not to Israel?
Well, then change your loyalty. Btw., do you ever wonder why people call racists "racists"?
Racist.
Posted by: Janet | October 31, 2008 5:30 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Indeed, jihadist. Indeed.
I think the Republicans will play Israel and the Middle East for the oil interests, and as a means of keeping the religious right happy. After all, it would upset them if they were to delay the end times for those who are expecting to go to heaven (I won't be going there, so I've been told).
"You do know that various US Administrations have and do support various undemocratic and semi-democratic regimes in the Middle East and elsewhere if they are deemed "friendly" to "US interests".
Indeed I do. That was why I mentioned Iran-Contra. The Republicans are not known for humanitarian concerns. I'll mention the use of torture, something we never used to condone. And the ignoring of Darfur. The cutting of aids funding and humanitarian aid to those who offer choice to women, or disagree with US policies as defined by the Bush Administration.
US policies, indeed the policies of most countries are not for the betterment of the common man but for the continuation of government by those in power for those in power.
I'm not positive either a peaceful solution in the Middle East will happen soon. I pray it does for the sake of both the Israelis and the Palestinians. To paraphrase Golda Meir- there wil be peace in the Middle east when the Israelis and the Palestinians love their children more than they love war.
Posted by: sparrow4 | October 31, 2008 5:19 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Hello Sparrow4,
Thanks for your elaboration on why Israel gets US support - a democracy, an ally and a staunch friend of the US.
You know, however, that the Arab street do think Israel is a US "Agency" of its "interests" in the Middle East. You do know that various US Administrations have and do support various undemocratic and semi-democratic regimes in the Middle East and elsewhere if they are deemed "friendly" to "US interests".
Oh yes, 15 of the 19 who committed the 9/11 tragedy are Saudi Arabians. Saudi Arabia is not only a prime exporter of oil, but Wahhabism/Salafism too. I would love to see the US nudge Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states towards full-fledge democracies with attendant rights for women.
I think Sarah Palin is not making a slip of the tongue, or is quite ignorant when she refers to Israel as a "Jewish Agency". What designs do Republicans have for the Middle East through Israel? But Israel did prove itself to be quite independent of US interests sometimes.
"Israel is also used as a lightening rod for the anger of the Middle east." Yes, some governments do sometimes use that as a deflection and distraction of their own failures. It seems that our governments would allow us to take to the streets and vent against US and Israel but not against our own repressive governments. With alternate news sources, the Net and cellphones increasingly available, Middle Easterners and the wider Muslim world, are getting different news feeds and having different perspectives on everything from Iraq to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
So frankly, with this sort of parallel and divergent "truths" coursing seperately in the west and the Muslim world on conflicts in the Middle East, I am not positive a peaceful resolution can be attained in the next few years, or decades perhaps, on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Too many blinkered nuts around masquerading as politicians.
Where is Solomon when we needed him?
Getting off here. See you.
Regards
J
Posted by: Jihadist | October 31, 2008 4:46 PM
Report Offensive Comment
jihadist- I second that motion on Jerusalem! It belongs to no one and everyone.
Posted by: sparrow4 | October 31, 2008 3:59 PM
Report Offensive Comment
as always, jihadist I find you thoughtful and fair. (although I would love to know how you picked "jihadist" for your username :-)
American elections, if you haven't already noticed, run on slogans and talking points. republicans are especially adept at running on short sentences and innuendo. Obama, in my opinion is the first candidate in a long time to treat voters with respect. He talks to us, not down to us. He doesn't assume we are too stupid to understand the issues.
There are always several givens in the buzzords and phrases. Isael gets play for several reasons. It is the one democracy in the Middle East, and a staunch friend of the US. Anyone who beleives this has not worked to the advantage of the US is a fool. While we maintain relationships with the Arab states, we need their oil and we also know the Arab states are hardly dependable. Saudi Arabia? You mean the country that birthed the majority of the terrorists who flew the planes on 9/11?
Israel is also used as a lightening rod for the anger of the Middle east. It's so easy to blame Israel for everything, whether by implication or even silence. Cynic that I am, lip service to Israel has been parlayed into political gold for every politician in the government today.
The christian right. Their interest in Israel parlays into the republican perception of Israel being important to the US. Of course, this is only in the sense of pandering to the right.
If Israel were not useful to the US, it would be thrown to the wolves. The US has a foreign policy of acting in its own interests- why else would we have supported dictators in many countries over the years? Iran-contra, anyone?
"I am sure other Middle Eastern "key players" do notice this as well. Not quite helpful in gaining their confidence that whomever is US President after this election is going to be impartial, objective and nuetral in facilitating the resolution of the Isreali-Palestinian conflict and Middle East Peace."
Isn't that as it should be? Impartial, objective, neutral- those are pluses. And you should also remember, diplomacy is a 2 way street. Wahadi teachings are not in anyone's best interests. Islamic extremism, whether taught, acted upon or perceived, do not inspire US trust in the Arab states.
Posted by: sparrow4 | October 31, 2008 3:54 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Hello Joyce,
You : "I hope more Jewish voters consider McCain. He said he'd move the US embassy to Jerusalem on day 2 of his presidency, if elected."
I hope not for all our sake. If some American Evangelicals believe in the Rapture, there are some Muslims who believe in the Dajjal (the Anti-Christ) coming in the Middle East to wreak havoc, death and destruction. Guess who is now posited as the Dajjal by some Muslims?
We do not want some Evangelicals who believe Muslims and Jews to be the Anti-Christ, and some Muslims who believe Christians and Jews to be the Dajjal/Anti-Christ to drag us into the Mother of All Good vs Evil Battle towards Endtimes do we?
From a Jewish perspective on this Anti-Christ belief, they are the ones who come out worse, being regarded as the Anti-Christ by some Christians and Muslims. Help them and us all here on this.
Personally, I am for Jerusalem to be sovereign city state. Or to be under the jurisdiction of the United Nations as a second option. Why not? Monaco and the Vatican City are viable city states among other mini-states with quite a bit of revenue from tourism.
Regards
J
Posted by: Jihadist | October 31, 2008 3:48 PM
Report Offensive Comment
to Victoria:
I percieve most of the mentions of Israel to come from non-Jews saying "but the GOP is better for Israel"...or from haters who simply can't separate judaism from the issue of Israel.
Read my posts as they are from a Jewish perspective and are far more accurate that the hypotheses of Mr. Berlinerblau. Jews/Judaism are liberal, Jews/Judaism are scholarly/intellectual, and this drives most of us firmly to the democtratic camp. There are exceptions, which is the point of this article.
Jewish votes rarely have much to do with Israel. Many gentiles only think that's the case, but they are wrong. ISrael is important to us, but come on both parties are supportive of ISrael (it was Clinton brought us closer to peace in the Middle East than any other president).
Lastly, if Palin ran for president in 2016, I'd bet my house that this "trend" Mr. Berlinblau is trying to understand would eviscerate - She'd get about 10-15% of the jewish vote (and likely much less). Note that I say 2012 because Obama unforutnately skews the numbers as a result of octeganarian jews who do harbor some racist attitudes, which means 2016 presents a more meaningful study of whether jewish loyalty to democrats will hold in the 70-85% range, which is where I think it is firmly anchored....FOREVER!
Posted by: Jeff | October 31, 2008 3:39 PM
Report Offensive Comment
" Isn't that actually the problem?
Why not "waste" a little sympathy for awhile and see how that works?
Can you imagine the screaming if someone said, "Let's not waste sympathy on Jews?"
I haven't seen much sympathy wasted on Jews at all. In fact people like you blames us or everything. I might also poit out that Israel, despite everything extends humanitarian aid and medical care in Israeli hospitals for sick and injured Palestinians. Not that you would be bothered to learn about that.
Nor would you be bothered to know about the millions and millions of dollars given to the Palestinian cause and show me where the money went? schools? No. Infrastructure? No. Hospitals? No. Public transportation? No. Quality of life for all Palestinians? No.Weapons? Yes. Bombs? Yes. Arafat's Coffers? Yes.
So if you really gave a rat's ass about the Palestinians you would be wondering why the average Palestinian has to live like that. And why they have been made political pawns by far richer Arab countries who would rather keep them in such poor living conditions so they can use them to flay Israel. And you also have to wonder why the Palestinians would rather live in those conditions, watch their children grow up uneducated and ready to blow themselves up just to take a few Israelis with them, than improve their condition and build themselves up. That's a choice they made. Israel is far from perfect, but the Palestinians bear 50% of the blame.
Posted by: sparrow4 | October 31, 2008 3:36 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Hi Victoria,
Yes, I do notice that during every US presidential elections that I can remember, all candidates make a point of expressing their support and friendship for the Jewish American community and the state of Isreal. And now candidates meeting the Israeli Ambassadors or visiting Israel.
I am sure other Middle Eastern "key players" do notice this as well. Not quite helpful in gaining their confidence that whomever is US President after this election is going to be impartial, objective and nuetral in facilitating the resolution of the Isreali-Palestinian conflict and Middle East Peace. Looks like there won't be peace in the Middle East, or world peace for a while be it Obama or McCain as President.
If Obama is President, I can't wait for the flap if and when he gives Iftar during Ramadan in the White House as Bush did with not so much fuss from his detractors. Obama will have a more difficult Presidency than Clinton. His detractors and opponents will never let up and more so if they lost this election.
Peace
J
Posted by: Jihadist | October 31, 2008 3:32 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Israel, per capita, has had more medical breakthroughs than any other country on earth. They are a democracy and a strong supporter of the US. The other countries in the Middle East have worked against the interests of the US at one time or another with the exception of perhaps Jordan or Egypt, who are countries who are at peace with Israel. Even our so called friend, Saudi Arabia, has worked behind our backs to hurt our interests. While all US administrations have supported a Palestinian state of their own for some time now, if the Arabs want to continue to obstruct a peace deal between Israel and Palestine, it is still in the best interest of America to support Israel. Some of the bloggers who have commented otherwise, are misguided.
Posted by: Amy | October 31, 2008 3:26 PM
Report Offensive Comment
I hope more Jewish voters consider McCain. He said he'd move the US embassy to Jerusalem on day 2 of his presidency, if elected. Obama would divide Jerusalem or unite it, depending on if he's speaking in front of Israelis or Palestinians. The shear number of people that Obama associates with who are strong anti-semites is striking. I would think Jewish voters would consider this.
Posted by: Joyce | October 31, 2008 3:20 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Hello Victoria and Sparrow4,
On the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the Middle East peace process, I am thinking of submitting my humble proposals to all the "key players" for their due consideration.
My proposal was only to ask all "key players" to stop sending weapons and funds to the "two direct players" and not to give any political, emotional and religious support to either side. And the two "direct players" not to solicit funds, political, emotional and religious support from their respective "backers" in this conflict.
As I am not a direct facilitator or enabler or funder or supporter of either or both party in this conflict, alas, I am not a "key player" and thus, alas, have no say in the resolution of the conflict. Hence, my proposals will be rejected outright. International relations, peace and security is very simple for those in the know and most complicated for the rest of us. Ms. Palin will tell us that.
....and why is America the only country in the world where candidates for elections have to express their friendship and support for another sovereign state as part of their domestic campaign?
Cheers
J
Posted by: Jihadist | October 31, 2008 3:18 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Now everyone can scream anti-semitism because I dared to mention the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
Suggesting that Palestinians are human and deserve symapthy, and that Americans be undivided in their loyalty- is for something- not against something.
What is needed is a real discussion on working for real negotations, and the South African Peace Model has succeeded admirably in this respect.
But it would require both parties to sit and listen to each others grievances- instead of a century of finger pointing, vilification, and blame directed outwards while being in denial oneself.
That goes both ways- and both sides deserve recognition of their complaints, and sympathy- or it will be another century of the same- only now it is dragging the whole world into this tribal infighting.
Posted by: Victoria | October 31, 2008 3:16 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Notice how every posts ends up being centered on Israel.
Israel is not America, and one's loyalties should be to one's country first.
Posted by: Victoria | October 31, 2008 3:11 PM
Report Offensive Comment
It comes down to one thing Jihadist, in America anyway.
Berlinerblau has written 6 articles here about the Jewish vote- in which he proposes that it is not a one issue voteing block.
Whoever is strongest in miltary and financial support of Israel gets the vote.
Posted by: Victoria | October 31, 2008 3:09 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Okay, now I'm lost with regard to Jacques Berlinerblau's essay and some posts here on Jewish American votes in this 2008 US Presidential elections.
The older or conservative or comparatively recently arrived Jewish American voters are voting Republican because they are either averse to voting for a black President? Or they like the Republican platform on Israel and the Middle East peace process? Or they remember socialism/communism? Or they like McCain and Palin?
The younger or liberal Jewish American voters voting Democrat as they they like McCain but not Palin? Or they like Obama's pluralism? Or they like Obama's liberalism? Or they like Obama's foreign policy and stance on Isreal and the Middle East peace process?
Why in the world did all those fellows at Georgetown University's conference tried to figure out the Jewish American voters and by "rumours" too, which is apparently very pluralistic and individualistic and cannot be easily sectorised and compartmentalised?
Perhaps, we should just divide American voters, regardless of race and religion, merely as conservative, liberal, pluralistic, non-pluralistic, by income group and education level etc. Race and gender in this American elections means not a whit anymore, but by what the candidates stand for.
Oh, for heaven's sake, just ask Pew to do survey on whom Jewish Americans are voting for and why.
Cheers
J
Posted by: Jihadist | October 31, 2008 3:00 PM
Report Offensive Comment
"Let's not waste too much sympathy on Palestinians who have done nothing in the last 60 years to..."
Isn't that actually the problem?
Why not "waste" a little sympathy for awhile and see how that works?
Can you imagine the screaming if someone said, "Let's not waste sympathy on Jews?"
We all have natural inclinations and biases- but those biases tranform into real bogtry when we attempt to vilify any "other" with such broadness.
Posted by: Victoria | October 31, 2008 2:55 PM
Report Offensive Comment
we know the ultra orthodox will go for McCain/Palin in an unbelievable display of short-sightedness and stupidity. Dov Hikind has already declared for McCain, and his constituents will follow. any Jew foolish enough to vote to have Sarah Palin as VP is not thinking of Jews or this country.
There will be no security for anyone if the Middle east does not find peace. But laying it all on Israel's doorstep is erroneous. Israel has come to the bargaining table many times, and under Clinton was willing to give in to 95% of Aafat's demands to have peace. Let's not waste too much sympathy on Palestinians who have done nothing in the last 60 years to strengthen their position except promote suicide bombers and terrorists. The average Palestinian wants peace just as much as the average Israeli- Israel will say enough is enough when the Palestinians do. Its a little hard to have peace with those who keep trying to kill you.
Israel has been used by every Arab country to promote their own interests and internecine battles. It's just so convenient, isn't it? even Osama bin Laden used Israel to explain 9-11. But bin Laden hated America for Afghanistan, not a great rallying point for most Arabs. still the simple-minded among us will point to Israel as the reason for every terrorist attack.
Posted by: sparrow4 | October 31, 2008 1:41 PM
Report Offensive Comment
but, according to (all too) common lore, we control the financial and political institutions of the US! So how can it be that >2% of the populace doesn't signify much of anything?
Posted by: David | October 31, 2008 12:57 PM
Report Offensive Comment
I am disgusted by the comments of my fellow Jews here e.g. "Palin has to be attractive to us," that somehow everyone must cater to us as Jews -- not s citizens who happen to be Jewish. I am a liberal and I plan to vote for Obama,but I am struck over and over again by Jewish prejudice against evangelicals -- it is OUR prejudice that has turned off Jewish potential Republican voters. Ther is not much Palin can do about it while being true to her belief system.If you have any doubts about this, look up one of Judith Warner's columns in the NY Times, where she mentions someone saying Plain "probably never met a Jew before." Actually, Jews are quite active in Alaska politics and alwyas have been -- the person making the comment was demonstrating her own ignorance and parochialism.
Posted by: Lind | October 31, 2008 12:55 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Man, let tell you McCain will tell the jewish people anything to get into office, but I recalled when 9-11 happen that was on the Replubican Watch the world dosen't want john McCain point blank I see more tention and acts of violence all across the world if he get elected.
Posted by: Anthony Oliver | October 31, 2008 12:52 PM
Report Offensive Comment
"nothing precludes Palin from someday reversing negative perceptions among Jewish voters."
Um, what about the fact that Jews are generally against extremism, hate-mongering, censorship, and ignorance? And we have good memories. There's no way Palin could ever win more than 30% of the Jewish vote, tops.
Posted by: Ben | October 31, 2008 12:50 PM
Report Offensive Comment
One flaw I see in your argument is that although Jews represent a small minority in the general population, their numbers in terms of votes are much higher. It would be interesting to see what percentage of "actual voters" are Jewish.
Posted by: Flaw | October 31, 2008 12:49 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Rev Wright has never sad anything about Hitler being a great Man he had said he is as evil as the devil, I was at the million man march and Farrakan did not mention anything related to the opposing of jewish life or religion.
Posted by: Anthony Oliver | October 31, 2008 12:46 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Oh for heaven's sake... you say Palin "made no egregious errors in her dealings with the Jewish community "
Jacques, Palin has to be attractive to us BEFORE you can even speak of her "losing" us through egregious errors. And in that regard, she is downright OFFENSIVE to the overwhelming majority of the Jewish Community. Your musings on this topic are just insane. We overwhelmingly despised her from the start because she is anti-intellectual ultra-conservative. She doesn't need to make any egregious errors, she has to be the idiot right wing idealogue that she is.
This topic is getting tired, mainly becuase you have no idea what you are talking about. I think Georgetown needs to start recruiting your replacement.
Posted by: Jeff | October 31, 2008 12:35 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Here in the conservative suburbs of Dallas, none (read not one) of my many Jewish friends and neighbors intend to vote for McCain/Palin. I'm Jewish myself, 64 yrs old and a fiscal conservative that has voted for Democrats and Republicans over the years. Ever since the Republicans decided to embrace the extremism of the religious right, my Jewish friends and I have not voted Republican. Most of these people, especially the women, are scared to death of Palin and actually cringe at the thought of her ever taking up residence in the White House. Not just because of her inexperience, etc., but because of her ideological extremism.
Posted by: BillinBigD | October 31, 2008 12:33 PM
Report Offensive Comment
We should get rid of the electoral college system so no presidential candidate ever has to bow to the Florida Jewish blac again.
Then we can all live free of the Israeli shackles that dragged us into this ridicuouls terrorism mess
Posted by: Tor | October 31, 2008 12:27 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Obama has among his closest friends and associates and mentors Rev. Wright, Wright's honored friend and Obama's partner in the Million Man March...who said Hitler was a great man and that the Jews were "bloodsuckers" and many other Jew haters and anti Israelis. Should the Jews vote for Obama-Would they have voted for Hitler? TODAY THREE NEWSPAPERS WERE BANNED FROM OBAMA'S PLANE. THE WASHINGTON TIMES, THE NEW YORK POST AND A DALLAS PAPER ALL FOR ENDORSING MCCAIN. HISTORY TELLS US WHAT WILL HAPPEN UNDER OBAMA.
Germany 1933. There was the radio addresses (no television Joe Biden) and mass rallies of crazed mesmerized fanatics who wanted a better life in dreary bad times and believed the lies and promises of a charismatic orator whose speeches crafted by Joe Goebbels were designed to convince the throngs that he would bring them everything they needed. The orator used scapegoating techniques that had worked for centuries. He became Dictator. This could not happen here they say. We have checks and balances they say. We have journalists and a media with integrity they say. They are wrong.
Obama the collector sounds right to me. He collects, consorts with, purchases property with, blurbs with, works with, worships with, mentors with, baptizes with, and basically swims with people that REALLY hate America, whites, Jews, Israelis, anti corruption laws, and the capitalist system of America. He comes to us dressed beautifully and tells us that he is one of us. Please don't tell us Barak Obama is not really one of them. That is like saying that a guy who rides with the Hell's Angels for twenty years doesn't believe what they believe because he doesn't wear their jacket.
Birds of a feather flock together. You can tell a man's character by the character of the company he keeps. By their fruits ye shall know them. Never mind that Obama's voting record is so far left that it is out of sight. Never mind that his statements and freudian slips show him to be something else. Never mind that the American people are going through a version of what the Germans felt in 1933, bad financial times, an unpopular president and an orator backed by the media using the big lies and promises of spreading the wealth and are mesmerized by the prospect that every man is going to be a King...by spreading the wealth.
When The Obama is enthroned, and it looks like he will be, then with a compliant Congress and Supreme Court he will prove to all that THE POWER TO TAX INCLUDES THE POWER TO DESTROY AND POWER CORRUPTS AND ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.
When a stealth with a thin resume, a gift of lying with a straight face, never a businessman, never a mayor or a government with rancid associations is elected and says he wants to appease our enemies and cut our military then our time as free Americans may be coming to an end. God Help America.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 12:24 PM
Report Offensive Comment
As a Jew living in Alaska, I would never vote for Palin. To all of you Jewish voters outside of Alaska; beware, be informed and do not believe her.
Posted by: marge@alaska.com | October 31, 2008 12:22 PM
Report Offensive Comment
As a Florida Jew, I find it puzzling that many Jewish friends of mine support John McCain and I'm ashamed that some of them have expressed their unwillingness to vote for a black president. I'd like to think that a much higher percentage of Jews would have more liberal views and find it puzzling. However, the live campaign calls that I've received supporting Obama have come primarily from avid Jewish supporters. Go figure!
Posted by: Sol M Wald | October 31, 2008 12:20 PM
Report Offensive Comment
One thing not mentioned is that the Jewish community has always valued intellect and education. McCain and Palin are at the bottom of the educational barrel and Obama was elected editor of the Harvard Law Review.
It is not true that "At less than 2% of the American population (and only 3.6% of the population of Florida) Jewish-Americans do not stand to dramatically affect the outcome on November 4th." This overlooks the support that can be given as volunteers and financial contributors to a campaign.
Rest assured, extreme right wing fundamentalist like McCain and Palin are not friends of the Jewish people...they only see them as being of use in their political aspirations.
Posted by: stratzrus | October 31, 2008 12:17 PM
Report Offensive Comment
Jewish community owes black community for civil right fruits
2008 we need your support; present Obama never ever hurt Jewish people
In the history black and Jewish are victim of haters so .Mr. Obama is your present
Don’t fumbled go vote he need your help
Posted by: Mohamed from Virgina | October 31, 2008 12:17 PM
Report Offensive Comment
The best friend for Jews and Israel is an American president who try to make a just peace for both Palstinians and Jews. A strong president who will tell both sides that it is time to end this bloody conflict which has been going for a long time. Israel must take the chance now and give the Palstinians a hope by giving them their land back. It is good fo both US and Israel interests to think strategically and politacally when they deal with the Palastinian issue. What would the Palstinians accept now might not accept later if Israel continues to ignore the Palstinian rights. People in that part of the world are getting frustrated and leaining toward radicalism and more and more going to side with Iranian and Hizboaalh doctrine. I hope it will not be too late to do something about the situation there. The next president must have the wisdom and courage to tell Israel enough is enough and think for change of the American interests in the Middle East and the Arab world in particular.
Posted by: Kas | October 31, 2008 12:12 PM
Report Offensive Comment
"...despite the fact that the Governor of Alaska has made no egregious errors in her dealings with the Jewish community and has, in many cases, said the right things and cultivated the right relationships."
You have no problem with her relationship with Thomas Muthee or her apparent approval of "Jews for Jesus" pastor Brickner? After all, she said (talking about Obama and Jeremiah Wright) that she would walk out of a church if the preacher was saying offensive things, yet she sat through a Brickner sermon where he said terrorist attacks on Israel were because they weren't Christian.
Posted by: bbbfst | October 31, 2008 12:05 PM
Report Offensive Comment
How could any Jew support a bookburner?
Posted by: S. Greenberger | October 31, 2008 11:59 AM
Report Offensive Comment
I notice that Sarah Palin does not seem to attract a diverse crowd. Look at her rallies, there are hardly any other races there. Has anyone not noticed this?
Posted by: Charlene | October 31, 2008 11:40 AM
Report Offensive Comment
For any Jew who has a sense of history, the view of those Palin rallies is more than enough to evoke the memory (or at least the film) of the Nazi rallies in Nuremburg in the late 1930s.
The U.S. may not be Hitlerian Germany, but this country has never been free of bigotry and when the violent bigots take charge, no one is safe.
Posted by: Mikes | October 31, 2008 11:35 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Anonymous wrote:
Hippocrates, the Greek pagan, the Father of Western medicine understood the value of life in the womb. He forbade medical doctors from being agents of death, even of unborn children in the womb.
________________________________
I presume that you are pro-life.
Would you be prepared to adopt and care for some of these unwanted babies? If not, then don't judge those who request abortions for incest, rape,etc. foetuses. Also please spare a thought for the woman who is abused in an economically challenged household where they cannot afford another mouth to feed.
I wish that the CHurch Belt of America and the Catholic Church around the world would "walk their talk" by doing two things:
1. Adopt and care for all the unwanted babies that are given up for adoption and pay for these costs by selling off the billions of dollars worth of assets that it has accumulated world-wide.
2. Hand over for arrest all their priests who have been guilty of sexually exploiting children left in their care.
Posted by: Eli Jikelele | October 31, 2008 11:31 AM
Report Offensive Comment
palin is unqualified, narrow-minded and part of a bigoted, backward-looking ticket.are these sufficient reasons toreject her candidacy? need i add her extreme religious views that deny the legitimacy of my religious views as a progressive jewish american?
Posted by: susan | October 31, 2008 11:08 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Hippocrates, the Greek pagan, the Father of Western medicine understood the value of life in the womb. He forbade medical doctors from being agents of death, even of unborn children in the womb.
Hippocrates lived nearly 500 years before Jesus. The idea of abortion as being wrong has been around for nearly 2500 years. Modern science has only strengthened the stand Hippocrates took two and a half millennium ago.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 11:08 AM
Report Offensive Comment
one of the anonymous posters wrote that "The Rabbi ... told us that while Torah law did permit abortion in certain circumstances, these cases were rare, such as when the mother's life would be directly endangered by carrying the baby..."
This poster does not seem to understand the difference between Torah (the first five books of the Bible) and Talmud, which is a collection of commentary on the Torah -- writings and arguments by and among specific named rabbis of about two thousand years ago, give or take.
To the best of my knowledge, Torah only discusses abortion in one rather narrow context: see Exodus 21:22. I strongly recommend that you go and read it for yourself, and then think upon the text and ask what it means. Why is the "one responsible" only required topay monetary damages, and not be charged with murder? What is G-d, through Moses, telling us in this passage???
Posted by: Anonymous II | October 31, 2008 10:57 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Governor Palin needs to know that only 2% of abortions are for "hard cases" - rape, incest, illness in mother, fetal deformities, and she could make a compromise in her stand. But ninety eight percentage of abortions are for convenience and Jewish law does not allow that if it does not recognize a baby in the womb as a full human being.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:56 AM
Report Offensive Comment
"Jews and abortion: Speaking in perfect compliance with the IRS 501 (c) 3 provision, the learned and engaging Dr. Rabbi Barry Freundel discussed traditional Jewish views on health care. For kicks (and knowledge) I asked the rabbi a paraphrase of the question Rick Warren put to (a puzzled) Barack Obama--"when does a baby get rights?" To which, Freundel responded that Jewish law places a premium on the health of the mother, not the developing fetus. There are, in other words, scenarios in which abortion is perfectly permissible under Jewish law (May Governor Palin's forthcoming National Jewish Outreach Director take heed)."
There are many Rabbis who interpret the Torah differently. Rabbi Dr Barry Freundel is fully entitled to his interpretation on abortion. What has that got to do with Governor Palin who is a Christian, and not a Jew?
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:49 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Probably the same Jewish voters who support Joe Lieberman and the nutcase preacher John Hagee, who believes Hitler was sent by God to drive Jews to Israel, will support Palin. And some super-rich Zionist fanatics will support her also.
Every group has its pathetically ignorant and stupid people, and Jews are no exception.
But like the rest of America, I expect that the good sense of Jewish voters will triumph.
Posted by: denis | October 31, 2008 10:47 AM
Report Offensive Comment
"The Rabbi explained how the preciousness and importance of the human soul equally applies to the yet-unborn child. He told us that while Torah law did permit abortion in certain circumstances, these cases were rare, such as when the mother's life would be directly endangered by carrying the baby. He explained that the fetus did possess a soul, and was in many ways, both legally and mystically, a human being, worthy of as much consideration as any other human life.
The ethical thing is to allow him to come into the world, and try to help him live out whatever life that the Creator has planned for him.
"There is every reason to believe that you will give birth to a normal, healthy child," the rabbi assured us. "The doctors may feel that they are playing the odds, but with stakes so high, we must bet on the side of life. And..." he added softly, "even in the doctor's worst case scenario -- an abnormal child -- the ethical thing to do would be to allow him to come into the world, and try our best to help him live out whatever life that the Creator has planned for him." ...
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:39 AM
Report Offensive Comment
What is so special about jews to make them very important in US politics? They are not a holy US community. They are not the only people that has suffered or the only group with their own religion... In opposition to antisemitism I think that there is also a semitismworshipism.
Posted by: Mkato | October 31, 2008 10:35 AM
Report Offensive Comment
You did not discuss "why", if Palin has done little to antagonize Jews, why Jews are antagonistic to her. A Jewish friend of mine may be an example of what you wrote, he seems opposed to her more for emotional reasons and less for issues.
Posted by: Dale | October 31, 2008 10:31 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Hippocrates, the Greek pagan, the Founder of Western medicine knew the value of life in the womb.
He forbade doctors from acting as agents of death.
When does life begin?
Read a textbook of human embryology. Any religion may choose not to give value to the life in the womb.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:30 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Well, I never thought it would happen to me. I'm pregnant. And now I don't know what to do. I realize this is an important decision -- not only for my own emotional well-being, but the heavy moral implications as well. I'm turning to a rabbi because I am wary of the "fashionable" opinions of today, which can flip-flop from one decade to the next. I'd like to hear what Judaism says simply because its ideas have stood the test of time. Does Judaism take the liberal "choice" approach, or does it take the hard-line position of the religious right?
THE AISH RABBI REPLIES:
http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=abortion&f=tqak&offset=1
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:27 AM
Report Offensive Comment
From an old jokek:
--"when does a baby get rights?"
When it graduates from med school.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 31, 2008 10:24 AM
Report Offensive Comment
Polls in Israel consistently showed McCain running ahead by a country mile, up to 75 per cent. Now the first actual exit polls are in for Israeli Americans, and they've gone 76 per cent for McCain. These included 46 per cent Democrats crossing over. The big issue is Iran and its nukes. McCain is trusted to stand with us, Obama is not. It helped too that on the eve of the vote Haaretz ran a story quoting Sarkozy as saying that Obama is utterly clueless on Iran. Coming from Haaretz was ironic because this is a far left paper whose readers are inclined to back Obama.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/americans_in_israel_voting_big_for_mccain_20081030/
Posted by: idov | October 31, 2008 9:03 AM
Report Offensive Comment
The comments to this entry are closed.
Victoria-Bigotoria:
Crawl back into your hole, racist Victoria-Bigotoria. Has your anit-Jewish racism swelled your ugly self so much that you can't fit in your former pit? How about going straight to hell where you belong? You'll find a lot of your fellow Catholocist-Islamist racist nazi peeps there.
______________________
Obama got 77% of the Jewish vote? Guess what about your Catholic peeps? The ones who went to mass voted a majority McCain. The one's who didn't voted a majority Obama. Should tell your Swamp Thing self something.
Still waiting to hear about your racist Islamist thugs. How did they vote. Oh and your Prostates, your Christofascists.
_______________________________________
While in hell where you belong, just remember the two Jews who gave up everything to make this happen, the Jews Obama thanked David Axelrod, and David Plouffe.
JEWS--Get it. Later, for you Bigotoria, anti-Jewish reacist. The Vatican couldn't defeat him, your Muslim oil lobby couldn't do, your Born Agains, your NRA, etc., etc.
Catholic/Muslim Bigotoria, go back into your hole. Later for you.