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Sarah Palin and the Jews 101
Making sense of the Jewish vote in 2008 is something of an emerging specialization at the University of Faith and Values Politicking (where I coach the Kickline team in addition to my normal academic responsibilities). Here are a few questions and propositions to be considered:
Does John McCain's selection of Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate dramatically impact the way Jews will vote?: My intuition screams "no!" But another voice in my head whispers that her appearance on the ticket could create difficulties if and when the Obama campaign decides it actually wants to win this election.
For now, what her selection does do is "seal the deal" for those who were leaning either Democratic or Republican. In just two short weeks, Governor Palin has emerged as the New Boogeywoman Of The Liberal Psyche. Jewish (and non-Jewish) voters of the Blue persuasion will be doing their very best to make sure she serves out her term as Governor of Alaska.
As for McCain supporters, unless there are groups out there like "Pro-Choice Jews for McCain," or "The Jewish Coalition for the Preservation of Moose" I don't see how Palin turns any Members of the Tribe away from the Maverick
What are some of her liabilities with Jewish voters, especially Undecideds?: Among Jews who haven't made up their minds yet, Palin's near total lack of foreign policy experience may be a dealbreaker. This is one place where Joseph Biden and his impeccable pro-Israel and foreign relations credentials had better pay dividends.
I have heard anecdotally that Obama's mastery of policy details made quite a good impression on Israeli government officials during his recent trip. This is something I assume that his operatives are bringing to the attention of community leaders and rainmakers far and wide. Running ads in Florida and Pennsylvania questioning Palin's competence to deal with Middle Eastern crises seems like an obvious strategy. (Though in her interview yesterday with Charles Gibson she struck the right notes when she said: "Well, first, we are friends with Israel and I don't think that we should second-guess the measures that Israel has to take to defend themselves and for their security."
In an interesting article, James Besser of The Jewish Week suggests that Palin is a throwback to a tradition of American, small-town populism. Those small-town populists tended to be subtly and not so subtly anti-Semitic. This means that the McCain campaign must steer her away from rhetorical gestures and personal associations that might concern Jews.
It must, for example, de-anti-Semitize the implications of her 1999 appearance with Pat Buchanan, her hymn of praise about Ron Paul, and her association with certain types of Christian supporters of Israel (see below). Obama, of course, does not lack for problematic associations himself (which may account for why he has had surrogates press this issue).
Governor Palin sure seems to be fond of Israel. Does that attract Jewish votes?: A debate rages as to the degree to which Jews are "one-issue" voters who primarily assess candidates on the basis of their commitment to the safety and well-being of Israel. A recent and hotly contested poll suggested that few American Jews identify Israel as a major factor in their thinking about presidential and congressional candidates.
My own sense, however, is that at this particular moment support and concern for Israel is increasing among American Jews. With the tightening Hamas/Hezbollah pincer, and the provocations of the canny lunatics running Iran, I predict that Jewish voters will vet candidates on the Israel issue more carefully than ever.
If I am correct, then Palin might be able to score some points in spite of her thin national security resume. Her religious background has placed her in the company of groups that are unambiguously supportive of Israel. She attended a Pentacostal Church before leaving in 2002 to join a nondenominational Evangelical congregation. Her current spiritual home, The Wasilla Bible Church, invited a Jew for Jesus to lecture last month. In short, Sarah Palin has logged a lot of quality spiritual time with people who wholeheartedly embrace Israel.
But don't Jews get nervous when dealing with those pro-Israel Christian Zionists, dispensational premillenialists, Jews for Jesus, etc., whose theological worldview envisions the ultimate conversion of the Jews?: When it comes to thinking about Christian politicians who espouse apocalyptic worldviews, I notice two Jewish camps. Let's call them "the pragmatists" and "the theologians." The theologians find the implications of Christian "end-time" scenarios deeply disturbing and detect more than a whiff of the traditional anti-Semitism in these alleged displays of philo-semitism.
The pragmatists, on the other hand, view Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Fundamentalist support for Israel in the Executive and Legislative branch as a huge political asset that has provided tangible security gains again and again. For these reasons they are willing to overlook certain doctrinal infelicities.
The Old and the Young: This just might be the defining dynamic of the Jewish vote in 2008. Older Jews especially senior citizens in Florida who lived through the collapse of the Civil Rights coalition might warm to McCain-Palin. If they view Obama through the prism of tortured Black/Jewish relations, if they look at him and see Black Power movements, Ocean-Hill/Brownsville, "Hymie-town," Crown Heights etc., then they could conceivably swing to the GOP.
A younger generation, who did not live though any of that, is less likely to harbor such suspicions. They will point out to their bubbies and zadies that African-America is not a homogeneous entity. They will also point out that while Barack Obama and Stokely Carmichael may both be Black, they are not, in fact, the same person. And after their parents warn them not to take that tone with gramma and grampa, they will storm away from the table muttering something about racism.
Are Jews really that crucial in 2008?: Here too I have my doubts. States with significant Jewish populations (e.g., California, New York, New Jersey) will in all likelihood vote Democratic anyway. Even in crucial battleground states with large Jewish communities the overall percentage of the Jewish population is tiny (Florida 3.6%; Ohio 1.3%; Pennsylvania, 2.3%; Michigan 0.9%). So let us not succumb to facile arguments that Jews are the "key" to this election.
But Jews are passionate, sophisticated, articulate and vocal observers of American politics. Palin's strategists would do well to target the pragmatists all the while distancing her from figures who make Jews, and others, nervous.
By Jacques Berlinerblau |
September 12, 2008; 3:02 AM ET
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Posted by: Vincent Bemowski | September 22, 2008 7:10 PM
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Jacques,
Palin is slated to attend an anti Iran rally that is being held by a leading Jewish organization.
I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is that it is hypocritical to join a rally now during this race and never, never done anything before an election for Jews. This is pandering and not really caring.
Posted by: ThePoliticalTruth | September 18, 2008 4:37 PM
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Livni has won, hope springs eternal.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 18, 2008 12:57 PM
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I am a Bible reader and believer, Christian.
I know that God's word came by the Jews and is
a treasure to the whole world. Thanks you!!
His word speaks of the "end times" Daniel ch 9-12
Ezeliel 38-48, Revelation NT reveals all and will
happen just as the hundreds of scripures already
fulfilled. Palin is a Bible believer and a true
believer in Gen. 12 God will bless those who bless
Israel and curse those who curse Israel. We are
truly in the last days as spoken by the prophets
thru God's revelation. It commands all Chrstians
and who are "grafted into the true vine" and born
a Jewish decendent of Abraham to love Israel "the
apple of God's eye". We take this very seriously
and will defend you and your people until our last
breath, a covenant promise, not like before-days.
I hope I can reassure every Jew that McCain-Palin
is the choice for being your watchmen on the walls. We love you and are in our prayers always.
Posted by: sheryl thompson | September 17, 2008 5:45 PM
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Let's hope the more centrist Livni takes the Kadima party today over Mofaz.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 17, 2008 6:41 AM
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Jon, The numbers I have seen have ranged form 100-to 300 thousand.
I have heard in the past few years claims of 3 million also. But without substantiation, which I welcome and it doesn't mean the numbers are necessarily inflated becuase I haven't seen the proof, or stats. It just means I am not aware of the proofs not that they don't exist.
Which are welcome. If you care to go to Nationmasters and research it- I would certainly be grateful.
Now you are referring to events 60 years ago- which is fine.
There were many Jews who decided to make an exodus to israel when it was formed.
Those were decisions based on their own autonomous choice.
There are, and have been Jews in Syria dor some time, and many left becuase of the horrible prejudice and suffering inflicted on them- not physical deprivation- or abuse- but social isolation- and that is enough.
The Ba'athists treated other muslim groups and christians pretty rotten too- but Assad is trying to rectify that- albeit not as strongly as I would like. His sister was a piece of work, but she has no say so...
I don't know about the Yemeni Jews- maybe you could valdiate your statement?
Now you are citing events from 60 years ago- and the people who were forced out found refuge in Israel- and it was widely known that they would find sanctuary there-
It is odd that you would limit your sympathy to only jewish people though-
Such events, long ago as they happened- still have garnered your great concern- why would that concern not extend to the 4 million palestinians forced from their homes, not to a sanctuary- but 60 years of refugee camps with no home in sight?
(at the same time in history that jewish people were forced out)
There is no justification for forcing people from their homes.
It is a disgusting, unforgivable, appalling diseased mentality that does such a thing.
It is repulsive and horrific behavior.
It strikes at the very heart and core of humanity's desire to have simple shelter and the need for a degree of security.
I cannot denounce it enough-
I don't believe human rights watch goes back 60 years, so that would account for the lack of info there.
However- I would really welcome stats- Nationmasters DOES go back 60 and beyond years.
Also, please post a validated source for the palestinian boy-I have never heard that and I'm not sure what you are accusing there.
You have some homework to do.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 15, 2008 3:34 AM
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"Can you consider asking yourself why?"
There are millions of Jews who have been deported forcibly from their native lands. There are Palistinians, one quite recently released by Israelis, who deliberately murder children. One little boy was killed and his remains pasted on the walls of a cave.
No problem for Human Rights Watch. Neither are the millions of Jews forced to flee their own countries.
victoria, why do you think, in your inestimable wisdom, this is so?
TEN IRANIAN JEWS???? What about the other million?
The Iraqi Jews? The Syrian Jews? The Jews of Egypt, Yemen, etc.? What about the Russian Jews? Where does one stop? WHAT?! NOT ON HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH RADAR? Now, why would that be.
Could you clear the fog from your racist brain and think, just for a minute. I doubt it would seriously harm you.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 15, 2008 3:06 AM
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Arminius- I just realized you haven't even read what I've written.
"I don't know what Human Rights Watch says, but I would bet they do have something to say about Israel too."
I linked the 4,800- articles on abuses by Israel. The same site has no abuses against Israel.
There are 187 resolutions against Israel by the UN.
There are 0 resolutions against Palestine.
Abuses against Jews is the Trials against the 10 Iranian Jews.
Can you consider asking yourself why?
What I have offered have been a long list fo various facts and their impacts- maybe the judgement is when you read them, saw how bad they are- and judged for yourself.
But it disagrees with everyone you have been exposed to- ask yourself why the rest of the entire world has a different opinion than the ones we are exposed to and indoctrinated with in America.
You have offered no nswer to any assertion- only that we support Israel because of Realpolitik.
That is not an answer- that is vagueness.
I have asked myself why is this thing the way it is for many many years- so of course I have opinions about it.
Ask yourself, first, why you have the instinct to unconditionally support Israel forever-
if you don't have a concrete reason-
then you will not be able to give one to me, and I will accept that.
But it doesn't mean that my concrete given reasons for not supporting Israel ad infinitum are baseless, racist, binary, one-sided or without reason.
What it means is that I have asked why for a very long time and have come up with answers.
as always, peace
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 15, 2008 2:39 AM
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Arminius, I never said that israel doesn't have any legitimate complaints-
Their anxiety is real, and has blossomed into a national paranoia.
They are ultra-defensive because of this.
And many Israelis are opposed to the ultra right Likud party-
they know that as long as the oppressive tactics of the government continue- their childrens children will be fighting this war forgetting why it ever started and locked into an eternal intractible death lock.
The Palestinians have nothing to offer-
they DID decrease all activity in 2007-
there were 23 Israeli deaths in 2006.
but the number of deaths of Palestinians rose tenfold.
330 of them children. And the same number of adults, all civilians.
and prior to the intifada- there was a complete cease fire from the Palestinians.
Sharon marched into a mosque when the people were at prayer, and slaughtered several worshippers as they prayed.
it catapulted him back into public favor-
That was why he did it- he needed to push the Palestinians back into aggression because he saw that peace was approaching.
So it is stupid to say it is te "fault" of Jews, just like it is stupid to say a slaughtered wedding party of 50 accidentally killd in Afghanistan is the ":fault" of americans.
it is the fault of leaders, desperately grasping onto their power.
That is why the South African peace model is the way to go.
But that model required a consensus of agreement to sit down and confront each other- with NEUTRAL mediation and until satisfaction is reached on both sides.
But in order to get to that point, the seminal issues have to be addressed!
For Israelis that is the formation of the state of Israel and it's colonization of palestinian lands. And the right to return or compensatioon for those stolen lands.
For Palestinians it is recognition of Israel's right to exist.
For Israelis, they will not address or even admit the colonization issue-
a man born in the USA has a 'right to return' to Israel.
A Palestinian born there- and in a refugee camp- has no right to even cross the border.
Palestinians state that this has been their land for thousands of years, and will not recognize the existential rights of Israelis to be there.
There are many Israelis who have admitted and addressed the colonization issue.
And there are many Palestinians who have admitted the right of Israel to exist, and purport a 2 state system.
But, just as our own government blithely ignore our wishes unless we take to the streets and demand they be considered-
the mass demonstrations (peaceful) of Palstinians were met with orders to shoot to kill- and they did.
What can the Palestinians offer?
They are the weak and powerless ones.
Maybe Israel's threat to bomb iran will throw the people into enough of a shock that they will take to their own streets.
One can be on one side of the fence and still have the ability to recognize and respect the position of the other.
I am asking yet again, without letting yourself be distracted by Jon-Just wondering- who does NOT have that ability-
to offer the grievances of Israelis- and their justifications, if any.
If you believe in the rightness of Israel- why can you not offer any rebuttals?
Believe me, I don't expect you to. But, in your attempt to you might learn a little more about the issues.
For Paestinians, it is
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 15, 2008 2:00 AM
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Arminius,
I agree with you about binary judgments. Unfortunately, racists don't.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 9:49 PM
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Just Wondering:
I don't even read, let alone answer, any post by someone too damn lazy to think up a unique handle. Life's too short, especially at my age, to take the time to sort them all out.
But since you were polite enough to fess up....
There are terrorists of all varieties all over the globe. We certainly have had our own home-grown ones here in America. Seem to be more of the Islam variety nowdays, at least they do get the lion's share of the publicity.
I don't know what Human Rights Watch says, but I would bet they do have something to say about Israel too. Their hands are not really clean. But again.... no black and white. Gray. Blame on all sides. Binary judgment does not make peace possible.
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 8:57 PM
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That last Anon was mine. Still don't see an answer.
That's okay. Silence says it all.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 8:37 PM
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Arminius,
"You are edging perilously close to bigotry. Careful. No silver bullets here. No blacks and whites, only grays. Damned difficult."
There are Muslim terrorists all over the world, not only in Israel. If victoria wants to justify them in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc., I'm ready to read what she has to say.
What does human rights watch say?
What does human rights watch say about the Jews of the middle east?
Posted by: Anonymous | September 14, 2008 7:33 PM
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victoria writes:
"Jewish people argue with each other about it- Ive already recommended Jewcy.com- go see the dialogue!"
Jews argue about many things, just as Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus and others do. I haven't seen you referring to any of these groups as a "monolithic block." Racist comments are racist.
What more need be said?
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 7:30 PM
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Alas, Victoria,
You seem to be polarized on this issue, and can only see one side. That side has many, many legitimate complaints, true. But so does Israel. You are right that Palestine is much worse off, and Israel has not helped. BUT IT IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE, IT IS GRAY!!!!! There are two or more sides to every f***ing issue you can think of, plus issues that affect the area around the problem, and in this case, the whole world. We MUST have an overview to solve this! Pointing to a single blame solves nothing except maybe making you feel good for a time. Meanwhile, things go to hell.
You have a good mind. THINK!
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 7:23 PM
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Careful, Victoria -
"Arminius- if you think there is something okay about Israel going and making a "pre-emptive" nuclear strike on Iran- that is fine."
No, it is bloody damned well NOT fine. As I said before, no sane human can condone use of nuclear weapons. How can I make that any clearer?
Ease up. It is getting too heated here.
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 7:14 PM
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Just Wondering:
You are edging perilously close to bigotry. Careful. No silver bullets here. No blacks and whites, only grays. Damned difficult.
Also, I did not think of what you might ask. Just stating my position.
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 7:09 PM
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And again, if the idea of the jewish vote being a monolith when it comes to pro-Israel issues were a frace, or a racist conjecture-
why did the author- who is jewish- write a whole article trying to minimize it's validity?
I didn't invent this idea- nor did racists.
Jewish people argue with each other about it- Ive already recommended Jewcy.com- go see the dialogue!
Arminius- if you think there is something okay about Israel going and making a "pre-emptive" nuclear strike on Iran- that is fine.
But I don't.
I think it is power out of control.
And you are more than welcome to disavow me of my perception problem.
Jon/Just Wondering
It shoud be easy- no facts no rebuttals- only ugly accusations.
Make some active constructive case Jon- you cannot - all you do is scream anti-semitism at any who is not jewish and criticizes Israel.
I have even seen you do it to Jewish posters who were anti-zionist.
You think if you keep screamin git it will alarm people and they will assume you are screaming fora good preason-
you could not even find one racist comment from me- to post.
Evangelicals are a monolithic one issue votewr(abortion) for republicans-
does saying that make one a racist?
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 7:08 PM
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Arminius- it has nothing whatsoever to do with faith.
I was introduced to the issue first from the Jewish perpsective completely.
Through rabbis and observant jews. It was the internal criticism of the jewish community that led me to discover the deep issues involved, and that was 25 years ago.
Actually, no one seems to have any substantive facts to discredit this perception problem.
It was jewish friends, who comprised most of my social circle, as I lived in jewish neighborhodds for years, who were very liberal and anti-zionists, that I came to learn about what has happened to he most forgotten people in the world.
My perception doesn''t come form my late (9 years ago) conversion to Islam- but was formed when I was an actively practicing in church every single morning catholic.
If you research it at all- you will be amazed.
And no one mentions AIPAC- the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, and the second largest lobby in America after AARP (American Association of Retired People)
(Do you really imagine that there are almost as many Pro-Israel supporters as there are retired americans to warrant the massive amount of lobbyists?)
Their exponentialy disproportionate influence on the affiars of our legislation cannot be understated.
I am continually stunned that Americnas are so unaware of these solid, undisputed facts of our lives.
I notice, that even though I repeatedly call for any to rebut any assertions with a defense based on records, and facts and figures-
the only repsonse is always - tired racism.
People just don't want to face the oppression and humiliation of the Palestinians because then they would have to actually confront that lobby.
And our mdia, never ever ever tells the story from the perspective of the victims, but just blames them.
You are welcome to rebut and tell me what is the perception problem I am having, and why.
And I know if you investigate at all- you will be silenced by your findings.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 6:46 PM
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Oh, and victoria, 22 people were just killed in India, 90 injured. Guess by whom? Any comments?
I'll be touring the globe momentarily, so you'd better get started.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 6:45 PM
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I missed victoria's new "post." No way out of the antisemitism, though. It's still there. And btw., what does human rights watch say about Middle Eastern Jews in countries outside Israel?
What does human rights watch say about the last attempt at "peace"? You know, the one Arafat broke?
About suicide bombing?
But first, tell us about the displaced Middle Eastern Jews, numbering in the millions, racist.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 6:32 PM
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Arminius,
I'm not asking you to call victoria anything. It's pretty simple for me. When you accuse all people in a certain group, Jews, in this instance, of being a "monolithic block," you've shown yourself to be a racist. This isn't the first time victoria has made racist remarks and it won't be the last.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 6:28 PM
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Jon- that was Berlinerblau's point.
So, Berlinerblau, who is Jewish- is NOT racist for saying Jewish VOTERS sre not a monolithic block-
The reason he has to make an argument to begin with is it is a point of observation for jws and non-jews alike.
And I am racist, because I'm not Jewish-for using his own resources and disagreeing based on the evidence that he, himself supplied?
bit of unpleasantness,
not exactly been even-handed,
for not doing enough,
Arminius , you are the king of understatement.
But understatement has it's place in diffusing passions doesn't it.
Thanks for coming to the rescue of fair maiden (and I call myself that very loosely :)
I'm not sure where you get the figures of 20 or 30 to 1-
We could more realistically compare missiles and weaponry- but your point is well taken.
We have to address the real anxiety of the Israelis. But we have spent 60 years sympathizing with them, haven't we?
Shouldn't that sympathy, if it is a real sympathy- also be extended to the Palestinians?
What did they ever do to anybody?
Did you know that the gaza Strip is the most densely populated piece of land on the entire planet??
And they are given one half of the water that the World Health Organization has determined is necessary to sustain life?
And that Israelis are alotted 4X as much water?
And have drawn up the partition plans (look at them sometime) so that ALL OF THE WATER IS UNDER THEIR CONTROL? That is one of the main issues in the 2 state proposal.
And have built a WALL TO KEEP THAT WATER away from the Palestinians? Who STILL live in camps? No houses- no banks- no influx of foreign aid allowed because there is no bank to accept it-
If I want to send money to Palestine as charity- I AM NOT ALLOWED BY MY GOVERNMENT!
Well, I wont get started.
There's alot of issues, not widely publicized- but...
http://search.hrw.org/search?q=palestine&btnG=Search&num=10&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&spell=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&client=hrw_frontend&proxystylesheet=hrw_frontend&site=default_collection
Have you ever heard of Human Rights Watch?
This is a link to their site for Palestine-
4,800 articles chronicling abuses of Palestinians by Israelis.
Out of fairness, I looked for abuses against Israel-
There are a couple of pages- but they all chronicle abuses BY Israeli to others.
Like immigrant workers abuses etc.
And the UN has 187 unanswered, unheeded, and ignored resolutions AGAINST Israel-
0 resolutions against Palestine.
I don't know if you are just unaware- or maybe only see american media in regards to this issue- but every notable human rights conscience inthe world has stood fast in their assessment of Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people who lived there peacefully for thousands of years before they were expelled.
Calling attnetion to real injustice, is not being racist or bigoted or even slanted.
Many of the most vocal critics of Israel live within its walls. Yes, walls.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 6:27 PM
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Just Wondering:
I'm not ready to call Victoria a racist. I think she has a serious perception problem, possibly influenced by her faith, about Israel. And the 'monolithic block' thing is a serious problem. Our American Jews are no more monolithic than Christians.
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 5:43 PM
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Arminius,
I don't think anyone confuses you with Victoria. She wrote that American Jews are a "monolithic block." That isn't the first racist thing she's written. I don't care where she goes, but if she wants to be a racist, it makes sense for her to go where she'll find like minds.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 4:54 PM
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Just Wondering:
You are apparently right, you do not seem to be a bigot. You certainly were critical, but so was I. Others are bigots, the ones who want Victoria (and probably me now) to move to assorted Muslim countries.
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 4:38 PM
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Arminius,
I'm not a racist. I didn't say that Jews in America are a monolithic group. I think ur confusing me with someone else.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 4:25 PM
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Victoria,
I am very sorry you must endure so many attacks by the bigots on these blogs. They are vermin.
Yeah, Israel, like China, tends to run things by their own rules. Realpolitik. Put yourself in their shoes - surrounded by enemies who wish their total destruction, and outnumber them 20 to 1? 30 to 1? I don't blame them for their paranoia. I do blame them for not doing enough for the Palestinians. Also, they have their own internal problems - a weird country. Oh, well.
Indeed, America can't always calm them down - ain't nobody perfect. That last bit of unpleasantness in Lebanon was really stupid - and brutal.
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 4:22 PM
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"Berlinerblau suddenly writes an article really off topic trying to prove, and failing, that Jewish americans are not monolithic pro-Israeli voters."
Here's the point. Even many racists can read.
Take it slow, victoria, one word at a time. They are ur own racist words after all. Bigot.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 4:18 PM
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As I noted before Jon,
Bias turns to bigotry when you start to dehumanize people.
Read Berlinerblau's linked poll, educate yourself, and disprove me then.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 4:06 PM
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Jon, (And pseudonyms)
You are actually proving the poin that was made to Arminius- any criticism of whiff of blame or responsibilty directed to Israel comes with the predictable hateful and tired accusations of anti-semitism.
If you had a point to make, you would make it.
But hate is all you have so it's all you see.
Arminius- in theory it seems that we would be able to tell Israel to cool it- but there are countless examples of Israel completely ignoring us. I'll give one and end it. Lebanon- July 2007
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 4:02 PM
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Victoria:
"Berlinerblau suddenly writes an article really off topic trying to prove, and failing, that Jewish americans are not monolithic pro-Israeli voters."
Wow, Victoria. What a racist you are! Gee, I always suspected, but now you've proven it.
Right out of your own foul mouth racist filth comes.
No real surprise, but it's always best when racists reveal themselves for what they are. Leaves no one with any doubts, you see.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 14, 2008 3:14 PM
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Loose cannons in the middle east? How about Egypt to which the US gives five billion dollars annually, which Egyptians never see?
How about our good friends the Saudi Arabians who stone women to death, cut off the hands of thieves, fund the madrassahs in Pakistan, treat Palestinians like human waste. Same is true of Egypt.
How about our good friends in Dubai? I could go on.
How about the anti-Jewish racist filth that these nations spread? Good way to keep the people silent about their own problems, but doesn't always work.
Go seek asylum in Egypt, Victoria. Life is easier there than is Sudan. Lots of anti-semites like you, and you can tell the Egyptian government to treat Egyptian Palestinians better.
Posted by: Anonymous 2 | September 14, 2008 3:02 PM
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Palestine is the redheaded stepchild who can do no right-
Is that what you think? More like Palestine is Damien from Omen II
Popular Palestinian Children's Show featuring puppet of George Bush being killed by child puppet, calling the WhiteHouse a Mosque.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 14, 2008 2:58 PM
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Victoria,
A note about Berlinerblau: I read his stuff with a lot of skepticism, he seems to write primarily to stir up a mess.
I am trying to think with my head. Sometimes my heart gets in the way.
Building schools in Afghanistan, Palestine, America, and anyone else is very important.
One thing not mentioned about our (yes, pretty disfunctional) relation with Israel: that country can, as we know, be a real loose cannon. The money we give 'em (maybe too much $$) gives us the clout to tell them to cool it. Our motives in the relation ain't all roses and butterflies, for sure. And they don't affect the election that much. Rampant uberreligion is doing that right now.
Seems to me we have beat this to death right now. Can we agree to disagree, and come back to it later?
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 2:57 PM
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Arminius,
"We give money to Israel because it is an investment in Realpolitik."
And building schools in Afghanistan isn't?
60 years of realpolitick hasn't worked, has it?
I don't know if you're reading my post with your head or your emotions,Arminius.
"The nukes nearly got used once - does the intervention of America to prevent this bother you somehow?"
Where is that coming from?
"The use of nuclear weapons is unthinkable, no matter who does it. No sane human will deny that."
I'm glad you said that.
I'm watching GPS with Fareed Zakaria right now.
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/
He and David Ignatius are the moderators of Post Global- the sister site to this one.
I am somehwat amazed because each speaker is bearing out what I've been saying for a long time.
What I see is that America and Israel have a dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship.
The UN is the neglectful father figure in this analogy, Israel, the favorite child, annd the US the mother with deep pockets who bails that child out no matter how bad their behavior. (and Palestine is the redheaded stepchild who can do no right)
This is an obsevation over my lifetime- and when one steps back, and looks dispassionately-
it is a matter of being pro-peace for all concerned, pro-peace for both parties.
"when we need to blame both and somehow get them talking again."
I'm all for that- but look at your reaction when I actually DO place some blame on Israel.
I become anti-Israel just for doing what you suggest!
We have been blaming the Palestinians for 60 years Arminius.
Yes, we do need to distribute the blame.
Israel has just anounced that they intend to bomb Iran.
Yes, they just did. AND have indicated that it depends on the outcome of the american presidential election!!!
If McCain wins, no bombing (they know he will do it for them)
If Obama wins, watch out!
Now, I like to look at sources of things. Again, I think you should read my original post and the progression of thought.
Palin states 3 times in her interview that if Israel bombed Iran we wouldn't second guess her decision, and support her. That means militarily.
Berlinerblau suddenly writes an article really off topic trying to prove, and failing, that Jewish americans are not monolithic pro-Israeli voters. His own survey supplied belies his assertion, but I am sure he knows how lazy bloggers are and just posting a link seems to automatically mean a point is substantiated.
His link disproved his point.
I post pertinent links- and read links. Also aware that they are rarely read, but are there just in case.
So, a country the size of New Jersey, with a population of 7 million- is dictating our elections to us now.
Threatening, basically, the start of WWWIII if we don't elect the president they want to do that job for them.
I wrote on Berlinerblau's post a few weeks ago about the impact of the Jews for Jesus speaker who spoke at Palin's church claiming that Israel is being punished because Jews have rejected Jesus. Palin was in that audience, and when asked (and she was) stated that she did not disagree (meaning agrees) with the speaker and would come and see him speak again.
I conjectured that this would have a negative impact on jewish voters. Apparently someone else agreed, and we have Palin's repositioning on the Israeli issue.
Now we see that his assurance from Palin, to Israel, that it is okay to bomb Iran- has had an effect-
Maybe you are comfortable with the disproportinaite power that Israel has via American military committment.
Pointing these issues out,and their resultant effect- is hardly just anti-Israel.
Observing events and speculating on them is just armchair punditry.
So you said we should support Israel for Realpolitick.
How and why exactly.
Build schools not bombs.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 2:37 PM
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"Why don't you move to the Sudan and see how your fellow Muslims live under your highly prized Islamic Sharia law."
Sudan would be an excellent country for Victoria. Actually, most countries in the Middle East would be good. They would gladly take her in as a refugee from this oppressive nation, which she hates so much. Just go to one of the consuls, Victoria, and ask for asylum.
Posted by: Anonymous 2 | September 14, 2008 1:28 PM
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Victoria,
There was no genocide in 1948 or any other time. I did not say there was, I said that Israel was attacked by those intending genocide. And I was not talking about WWII, those atrocities are known to me, and not pertinent to the topic anyway.
No group has no more value than another. And I did not intend any sort of guilt argument.
You do seem to twist what I try to say into verbal pretzels. We give money to Israel because it is an investment in Realpolitik. We are not being bullied. The nukes nearly got used once - does the intervention of America to prevent this bother you somehow? Do you think we did that out of guilt, or simply the knowledge that all hell would break out? Russia was making direct threats at the time. The use of nuclear weapons is unthinkable, no matter who does it. No sane human will deny that.
As for showing my age, I'm not shy about that. I am 65.
Y'know, I'm not pro-Israel - or pro-Arab either. I'm pro-Peace. It's a mess over there, and both sides are at fault. Your idea of using South Africa as a model shows a lot of merit, I think. I have always seen you as a person of peace - but you really come across as very anti-Israel, when we need to blame both and somehow get them talking again. As Churchill said, better to jaw-jaw than to war-war.
Posted by: Arminius | September 14, 2008 12:26 PM
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Victoria-
Your hatred of America is well-noted in your previous posts. You may not have written Pastor Jeremiah Wright's sermons- but you certainly cheer their sentiments.
You enjoy bragging about "taking in the homeless". Why don't you move to the Sudan and see how your fellow Muslims live under your highly prized Islamic Sharia law.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 14, 2008 9:17 AM
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Here's a comment I made on another post, and I thought it may be applicable here.
We all have an inclination or bias. To deny this is to be transparently dishonest with ourselves and the world.
But bias becomes bigotry when dehumanize others.
And bigotry is, a hateful and ugly thing.
It is important to make the distinction.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 2:50 AM
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Go back and read my previous posts if you care to- you'll notice that my america first was a REACTION to Jon finding it (hateful?) that I would choose America over Israel.
You know I'm not a fist pumping nationalistic fervored flag waver type-
My love for my country is an inwardly displayed and expressed love. But I love my home with my entire heart- the length and breadth of her- I've driven twice across her span to know her and love her.
Harold, I think, you have shown that you have a valuable opinion when you give it.
I don't believe anyone is reading your spams.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 2:18 AM
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VICTORIA:
Arminius, what exactly was the genocide of 1948?
And the genocide of the previous years wasn't the only one perpertrated upon a people.
What about the 1 MILLION Ethiopians massacred by the italians?
Or the equal in number and suffering Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, and mentally and physically handicapped and homosexuals murdered by the nazi regime.
All together, their numbers exceed the Jewish holocaust- they experienced the same holocaust- yet no one gave the homeless Roma a country of their own- (the small number left) and the Ethiopians- they just don't exist historically.
Does one group have more value than another?
So, NO- the guilt argument falls flat.
"Do you really think cutting off funds to Israel would help the situation there? I think it would promote war, and if pressed too hard, and short of money and weapons, Israel would throw nukes. Is that what you want?"
Israel would throw nukes?
We have funded Israel for 60 years Arminius-
So, your reasoning is, that we are being bullied into funding Israel out of fear that they will use the weapons we have given them?
Are we frightened schoolkids afraid of a shakedown from the school bully if we don't continue to give him our milk money?
"We need peace, not vengeance. From either side"
Isn't throwing nukes a tiny bit- well--vengeful?
But is somehow understandable if the Israelis do it?
I'm afraid that I do not understand.
So, again- I don't believe we should continue to be terrorized into giving billions to Israel.
(300 billion- we break our own foreign aid laws in our inexplicable (not so inexplicable- AIPAC has something to do with it) unequaled special relationship with Israel.
Now this is an interesting distraction-
"America first? Israel first? What about the WORLD first, and work for peace?"
Arminius, I have spent the majority of my life taking into my home, supporting, and helping many many fresh off the street homeless people.
After many experiences I gained a little discernment and wisdom-
If I allow people I am caring for to suck the life and resources out of me- then we are BOTH on the street.
So, I have to care for myself first, be strong- and THEN I am in a position to help others meaningfully and effectively.
And, sad to say- not all who are helped appreciate that help either. Sometimes, when you help a person who is weak- no matter how honestly and unconditionally and non-hudgementally and open-handed and heartedly-
when they are stronger- they resent what you know about them, see their own failings in your reflected eyes, and even sometimes try to destroy you for remembering.
After a while you recognize those seminal tendencies and make choices about who to help.
And of course, at some point- one does expect people to begin to help themselves when they have been give ample tools.
Israel has ample tools given by u for 60 years to help and protect themselves.
They could also show appreciation for the unconditional unlimited support we have given them.
Compromising and getting long well with others-
Allowing the palestinians to improve their OWN conditions by giving them access to jobs- and not blowing up everything they try to build.
Have they done that?
"What about the WORLD first, and work for peace?"
Because we are no longer strong ourselves.
We have frittered away our good name and reputation carelessly.
We need to strengthen ourselves first.
If we cannot help ourselves, and are spreading chaos- how can we work for peace?
So, maybe you didn't see my original comments before Harold spammed his spam-
I did offer to consider reasonably any comments that justified our support of Israel, not based on guilt or being terrified into it.
I'm coming from the perspecitve of what is today- not what was or will be.
I have a solid idea in my own mind what your motives were for wanting to join the IDF as a youngster (you just dated yourself by the way)
and I wonder if those same motives would hold up under (your) reasoning as the man you are today.
I was Pro-Israel for a loong time. But I found too too many cracks in the reasoning and facts didn't pan out-
SO I welcome, in the name of peace and understanding- reasoning not based on fear- or a guilt that is not mine-
but on justice, morality, goodness, righteousness and the pursuit of real peace.
Personally, I think the African Peace Process is a successful template for revolutionary accord.
I have long wondered why it 's principles have not been implemented in the Israel-Palestinian (or Palestinian-Irael) :) discord.
I think it was even used by the Irish.
September 14, 2008 1:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted by: Anonymous | September 14, 2008 2:16 AM
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"Just as blacks view all aspersions as racial, Jews forget that some criticisms are based on Jewish behavior that may have nothing to do with racism and everything to do with culture and ideology."
The same is true for all Christians and Catholics, even more true since there are more of them and they are much more powerful.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 14, 2008 2:00 AM
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If you hear My voice obey Me. Keep My Commandments. I have shown you mercy. If you are a sinner gentile seek a Rabbi in the House of Judah for conversion. Forsake your churches, they are not Mine; forsake your pastors, I never chose them; forsake them that are in it, I did not form them. If you do not obey Me, I will show you no mercy.
It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death?
Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
“That Moses commanded the Levites”
“which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord”
“Take this book of the law”
“and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God”
“that it may be there for a witness against thee”
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy them.
Yea, they despised the pleasant land, they believed not his word:
But murmured in their tents, and hearkened not unto the voice of the Lord.
“had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach”
There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.
And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord,
So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord.
Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone”
“which Moses put there at Horeb”
“when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel”
“that the cloud filled the house of the Lord”
“for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord”
“The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness”
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, Ten Commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:
And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you”
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
“God created the heaven and the earth”
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
“Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord”
“Satan came also among them”
“I call heaven to record this day against you”
“God created the heaven” Satan
“and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God”
“that it may be there for a witness against thee”
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
“Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord”
“Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord”
“Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou”
“From going to and fro in the earth”
“walking up and down in it”
“I call earth to record this day against you”
“God created the earth” Satan
“and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God”
“that it may be there for a witness against thee”
Posted by: harold | September 14, 2008 1:46 AM
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Go back and read my previous posts if you care to- you'll notice that my america first was a REACTION to Jon finding it (hateful?) that I would choose America over Israel.
You know I'm not a fist pumping nationalistic fervored flag waver type-
My love for my country is an inwardly displayed and expressed love. But I love my home with my entire heart- the length and breadth of her- I've driven twice across her span to know her and love her.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 1:40 AM
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Arminius, what exactly was the genocide of 1948?
And the genocide of the previous years wasn't the only one perpertrated upon a people.
What about the 1 MILLION Ethiopians massacred by the italians?
Or the equal in number and suffering Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, and mentally and physically handicapped and homosexuals murdered by the nazi regime.
All together, their numbers exceed the Jewish holocaust- they experienced the same holocaust- yet no one gave the homeless Roma a country of their own- (the small number left) and the Ethiopians- they just don't exist historically.
Does one group have more value than another?
So, NO- the guilt argument falls flat.
"Do you really think cutting off funds to Israel would help the situation there? I think it would promote war, and if pressed too hard, and short of money and weapons, Israel would throw nukes. Is that what you want?"
Israel would throw nukes?
We have funded Israel for 60 years Arminius-
So, your reasoning is, that we are being bullied into funding Israel out of fear that they will use the weapons we have given them?
Are we frightened schoolkids afraid of a shakedown from the school bully if we don't continue to give him our milk money?
"We need peace, not vengeance. From either side"
Isn't throwing nukes a tiny bit- well--vengeful?
But is somehow understandable if the Israelis do it?
I'm afraid that I do not understand.
So, again- I don't believe we should continue to be terrorized into giving billions to Israel.
(300 billion- we break our own foreign aid laws in our inexplicable (not so inexplicable- AIPAC has something to do with it) unequaled special relationship with Israel.
Now this is an interesting distraction-
"America first? Israel first? What about the WORLD first, and work for peace?"
Arminius, I have spent the majority of my life taking into my home, supporting, and helping many many fresh off the street homeless people.
After many experiences I gained a little discernment and wisdom-
If I allow people I am caring for to suck the life and resources out of me- then we are BOTH on the street.
So, I have to care for myself first, be strong- and THEN I am in a position to help others meaningfully and effectively.
And, sad to say- not all who are helped appreciate that help either. Sometimes, when you help a person who is weak- no matter how honestly and unconditionally and non-hudgementally and open-handed and heartedly-
when they are stronger- they resent what you know about them, see their own failings in your reflected eyes, and even sometimes try to destroy you for remembering.
After a while you recognize those seminal tendencies and make choices about who to help.
And of course, at some point- one does expect people to begin to help themselves when they have been give ample tools.
Israel has ample tools given by u for 60 years to help and protect themselves.
They could also show appreciation for the unconditional unlimited support we have given them.
Compromising and getting long well with others-
Allowing the palestinians to improve their OWN conditions by giving them access to jobs- and not blowing up everything they try to build.
Have they done that?
"What about the WORLD first, and work for peace?"
Because we are no longer strong ourselves.
We have frittered away our good name and reputation carelessly.
We need to strengthen ourselves first.
If we cannot help ourselves, and are spreading chaos- how can we work for peace?
So, maybe you didn't see my original comments before Harold spammed his spam-
I did offer to consider reasonably any comments that justified our support of Israel, not based on guilt or being terrified into it.
I'm coming from the perspecitve of what is today- not what was or will be.
I have a solid idea in my own mind what your motives were for wanting to join the IDF as a youngster (you just dated yourself by the way)
and I wonder if those same motives would hold up under (your) reasoning as the man you are today.
I was Pro-Israel for a loong time. But I found too too many cracks in the reasoning and facts didn't pan out-
SO I welcome, in the name of peace and understanding- reasoning not based on fear- or a guilt that is not mine-
but on justice, morality, goodness, righteousness and the pursuit of real peace.
Personally, I think the African Peace Process is a successful template for revolutionary accord.
I have long wondered why it 's principles have not been implemented in the Israel-Palestinian (or Palestinian-Irael) :) discord.
I think it was even used by the Irish.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 14, 2008 1:34 AM
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Victoria,
America first? Israel first? What about the WORLD first, and work for peace?
Jon was a bit too acidic in his post, but he is right about on one thing: Israel is a bulwark. Israel is also a damn good intelligence source.
Israel had its back to the wall in three wars, 1948, 1967, and 1973, attacked by enemies that were intent on total genocide. (1956 was quite different, due to Britain and France. Note that America was opposed to this adventure.) Can you blame Israel for being ultra defensive? Are you aware that the situation was so desperate in 1973 that Israel had planes, armed with atomic weapons, ready to go? America found out (satellite photos) and put a stop to it.
Agreed, Israel has not exactly been even-handed since 1973. Neither have their opponents. What has America done since then? Well, Carter helped bring about peace between Egypt and Israel. Since then, nothing we Americans have done has not been worth squat. Especially the current run of dumba**es, who have done nothing. The horrible cycle of violence continues, and the world wrings its hands, weeps, and does nothing.
What would you do if your back were to the wall?
What would you do to make real peace?
Do you really think cutting off funds to Israel would help the situation there? I think it would promote war, and if pressed too hard, and short of money and weapons, Israel would throw nukes. Is that what you want?
We need peace, not vengeance. From either side.
By the way, as a young man in 1967, on the first day of the Six Day War, I was looking for a place to volunteer to fight for Israel. It was soon evident that they needed no help, just cheers. That does not make us enemies. Let us work for peace.
Posted by: Arminius | September 13, 2008 10:47 PM
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"I'm going to take a wild guess that, most americans here- kind of agree that, America deserves our loyalty undivided and singularly"
Most Americans have a strong preference for free societies over tyrannies and understand that the real underdog in the Middle East is the tiny state of Israel struggling to survive in a sea of medieval hate.
You are anti-Israel and it is well-documented in the onfaith archives. I'm just calling you out as the predictable liar you are.
Why not drop the talking points? No one believes your drivel.
Posted by: Jon | September 13, 2008 9:58 PM
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O'Victoria, O'Victoria, O'Victoria,
Again you neglect the more important issue of the mistreatment of women and warmongering approved by your violent operating manual, the koran.
And you might check our foreign aid dollars that go to Muslim countries like Egypt. And how about all that money we are spending keeping the Islamic Shiites and Sunnis from killing each other in Iraq 24/7?????
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | September 13, 2008 9:04 PM
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America over Israel,spin??
Should it be Israel over America?
You predictably haven't a response of any intelligence.
Are you suggesting that there is something wrong, or being spinned, by choosing America over Israel?
And maybe, you are suggesting that allegiance to the country of my birth and great times 8 granpdparents is, somehow, spin?
I'm going to take a wild guess that, most americans here- kind of agree that, America deserves our loyalty undivided and singularly.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 13, 2008 7:56 PM
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You can put that "America over Israel" spin away- Victoria.
You have too often posted your radical pro-Palestinian hatred of all things Israeli rants for any regular reader here to buy into your "new and kinder American" self.
And BTW its been your habit to pretty much hate all things American too until someone suggests you try living in a country under sharia law.
And then you are suddenly proud to be an American where at least you know your free.
You know everything you post to onfaith is archived? Don't be a hypocrite. Quit pushing the propaganda du jour.
Posted by: Jon | September 13, 2008 4:41 PM
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Jon states
"Why do you present yourself as neutral to Israel when you are an enemy of Israel?"
What I am an enemy to Jon, is the continuation of the same policies of the last 7 years that will turn America into a full time war machine.
While ignoring our own budget deficit, recession, and sellingour debt to foreginpowers who really don't have our best interests at heart.
It is short term thinking, and motivated by the basest paranoia.
We have seen what that fear mongering has done to our economy, our ability to buy houses, educate our children, care for our own health, secure and keep jobs that allow us prosper, not subsist while slowly sinking into massive debt that is reflected in the disparity between rich and poor, and the disappearing mddle class.
Why should I be more of a friend to Israel, than, Taiwan, or Lebanon, or Kosovo, or Turkey or Chile? They all have deomcracies that need real help.
Americans have been guilted, and now terrified into underwriting the economy of Israel for 60 years.
If my government took the $24,000.00 dollars it sends (per capita) to every Israeli citizen man, woman, and baby last year- and spent it on Americans- first- and there was leftover surplus- I don't mind Israel presentng her case and getting in line for foregin aid.
And that doesn't include the billions in free weapons- and the thousands of young americans who should be going to college, building their lives, making more little americans- and are instead getting blown up halfway around the world to protect the security of Israel.
And now we have Palin outright stating that we will use our resouces to back them up if they want to bomb Iran?
No!
Let's worry about our OWN security first!
We lost 3,000 people on 911 because some arab psycho nuts were so inflamed with anger over our unconditional support of Israel to the dertiment of everyone else in the region- that they plotted and schemed and flew planes into our towers!
If Israel were the friend to America that America has been to her, she would have said, "Hey America- we see how destructive our friendship is to you, and the high cost you are paying in your own security- let's work together to address the core issues that are causig this unrest and make some compromises."
Has that happened? No!
We have 4.2 million Iraqi refugees because of this current war-
We are having lives destroyed on both sides in Afghanistan.
If we took the 10 BILLION dollars a MONTH we are spending on these wars to protect Israel's security- while stealing Iraq's resources at the same time (win win for everyone- well- just big oil, Blackwater, Lockheed, and Israel actually) and spent it on a few schools in Afghanistan instead-
None of us would be in this mess!
Israel has one of the highest per capita incomes on the planet! And highest standard of living. Where is THEIR foreign aid ministry?
There isn't one.
Israelis themselves want an end to this madness- are not happy or proud at the conditions that the palestinians are forced to live in- and have their own very critical internal dialogue.
But they know they have the very deep pockets and military might of rich Uncle Sam to cover them- and that fallback keeps them from trying too hard to resolve their own domestic issues.
If you can give a compelling argument as to why I should be a greater friend to Israel than my own country- I am willing to listen.
One that doesn't involve trying to terrify and bully me or super guilt me.
But you won't think constructively-
You cannot give a reason why Israel is more important than any other country in the world-
I anticipate an unreasoanble rage induced emotional overreaction from you- with stupid accusation of anti-semitism or some such garbage.
Im not from the generation that can be guilted into remembering the holocaust.
Besides, America didn't do it, we STOPPED IT!
Why should her people keep footing the bill?
Why should it be HER children that die for it?
I'm from the generation that looks at Rwanda, and Bosnia, and Darfur,and say to myself,son't those lives matter?
So tell me, Jon- Why should Israel be so important to me right now?
Their security?
What about our security?
The holocaust of 60 years ago?
What about the holocausts of today?
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 13, 2008 3:10 PM
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This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Posted by: harold | September 13, 2008 2:23 PM
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And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the Lord blessed him.
And the Spirit of the Lord began to move him at times in the camp of Dan between Zorah and Eshtaol.
“And the woman bare a son”
“called his name Samson”
“the child grew”
“and the Lord blessed him.”
“And the Spirit of the Lord began to move him at times in the camp of Dan”
And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.
And he came up, and told his father and his mother, and said, I have seen a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines: now therefore get her for me to wife.
Then his father and his mother said unto him, Is there never a woman among the daughters of thy brethren, or among all my people, that thou goest to take a wife of the uncircumcised Philistines? And Samson said unto his father, Get her for me; for she pleaseth me well.
But his father and his mother knew not that it was of the Lord, that he sought an occasion against the Philistines: for at that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel.
Then went Samson down, and his father and his mother, to Timnath, and came to the vineyards of Timnath: and, behold, a young lion roared against him.
And the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done.
And he went down, and talked with the woman; and she pleased Samson well.
“Samson went down to Timnath”
“saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.”
“I have seen a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines”
“now therefore get her for me to wife.”
” And Samson said unto his father”
“Get her for me; for she pleaseth me well.”
“behold, a young lion roared against him.”
Then the Philistines said, Who hath done this? And they answered, Samson, the son in law of the Timnite, because he had taken his wife, and given her to his companion. And the Philistines came up, and burnt her and her father with fire.
“Samson, the son in law of the Timnite”
“because he had taken his wife”
“And the Philistines came up”
“burnt her and her father with fire.”
And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands.
And he found a new jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand, and took it, and slew a thousand men therewith.
And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men.
“the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him”
“the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire”
“his bands loosed from off his hands”
“he found a new jawbone of an ass”
“put forth his hand, and took it,”
“and slew a thousand men therewith”
“with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men.”
Then the Lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice: for they said, Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.
And when the people saw him, they praised their god: for they said, Our god hath delivered into our hands our enemy, and the destroyer of our country, which slew many of us.
And it came to pass, when their hearts were merry, that they said, Call for Samson, that he may make us sport. And they called for Samson out of the prison house; and he made them sport: and they set him between the pillars.
And Samson said unto the lad that held him by the hand, Suffer me that I may feel the pillars whereupon the house standeth, that I may lean upon them.
Now the house was full of men and women; and all the Lords of the Philistines were there; and there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women, that beheld while Samson made sport.
And Samson called unto the Lord, and said, O Lord God, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.
And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.
And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.
Then his brethren and all the house of his father came down, and took him, and brought him up, and buried him between Zorah and Eshtaol in the buryingplace of Manoah his father. And he judged Israel twenty years.
“the Lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god”
“Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.”
“And when the people saw him, they praised their god”
“Our god hath delivered into our hands our enemy, and the destroyer of our country, which slew many of us.”
“when their hearts were merry”
“Call for Samson, that he may make us sport”
“they called for Samson out of the prison house”
“he made them sport: and they set him between the pillars.”
“Now the house was full of men and women”
“all the Lords of the Philistines were there”
“there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women”
“Samson called unto the Lord, and said”
“O Lord God, remember me”
“I pray thee, and strengthen me”
“I pray thee, only this once”
“O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.”
“Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines”
“The Son of man is lord of the Sabbath”
“the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein”
“So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.”
Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.
Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
“Dan shall judge his people”
“as one of the tribes of Israel”
“Dan shall be a serpent by the way”
And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;
The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,
“I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan”
“in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom”
“The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony”
”the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle”
These are the sons of Dan after their families: of Shuham, the family of the Shuhamites. These are the families of Dan after their families.
All the families of the Shuhamites, according to those that were numbered of them, were threescore and four thousand and four hundred.
“These are the sons of Dan after their families”
“of Shuham, the family of the Shuhamites”
“All the families of the Shuhamites, according to those that were numbered of them”
Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat.
Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.
So they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king.
And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him: but the king knew her not.
“Now king David was old and stricken in years”
“and they covered him with clothes”
“but he gat no heat.”
“Wherefore his servants said unto him”
“Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin”
“that my lord the king may get heat”
“let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him”
“let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.”
“found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king.”
“And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him”
“but the king knew her not.”
Posted by: harold | September 13, 2008 2:19 PM
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Paraphrasing from the New Testament, Benedict decried "insatiable greed" and said "the love of money is the root of all evil."
"Have not money, the thirst for possessions, for power and even knowledge, diverted man from his true destiny?" the pope asked.
“THIS IS MY COVENANT”
“BETWEEN ME AND YOU AND THY SEED AFTER THEE”
“IT SHALL BE A TOKEN OF THE COVENANT BETWIXT ME AND YOU.”
“BOUGHT WITH MONEY OF ANY STRANGER, WHICH IS NOT OF THY SEED.”
“AND LOVETH THE STRANGER”
“IN GIVING HIM FOOD AND RAIMENT.”
“FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL”
“BECAUSE THAT FOR HIS NAME'S SAKE THEY WENT FORTH”
“TAKING NOTHING OF THE GENTILES”
PREPARE YE THE WAY OF THE LORD, MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT
ARISE, AND GO INTO THE STREET WHICH IS CALLED STRAIGHT
AND INQUIRE IN THE HOUSE OF JUDAS
THAT WHICH IS CROOKED CANNOT BE MADE STRAIGHT
THAT WHICH IS WANTING CANNOT BE NUMBERED
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
“In those days came John the Baptist”
“And saying, Repent ye”
“for the kingdom of heaven is at hand”
“Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight”
That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.
And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
“That which is crooked cannot be made straight”
“that which is wanting cannot be numbered.”
And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
“And the Lord said unto him”
“That which is crooked cannot be made straight”
“that which is wanting cannot be numbered.”
“Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight”
“and inquire in the house of Judas”
“for one called Saul, of Tarsus”
“for, behold, he prayeth”
Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
“love unto all the saints”
“Cease not to give thanks for you”
“making mention of you in my prayers”
“This is my covenant”
“between me and you and thy seed after thee”
“it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.”
“bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.”
“and loveth the stranger”
“in giving him food and raiment.”
“For the love of money is the root of all evil”
“Because that for his name's sake they went forth”
“taking nothing of the Gentiles”
This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
“This is my covenant”
“between me and you and thy seed after thee”
“Every man child among you shall be circumcised”
“And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin”
“it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.”
“he that is born in the house”
“or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.”
“my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant”
“the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised”
“that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
Only the Lord had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
For the Lord your God is God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name.
He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen.
Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the Lord thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.
“the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God”
“the earth also, with all that therein is.”
“Only the Lord had a delight in thy fathers to love them”
“he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.”
“Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked”
“For the Lord your God is God of Gods”
“Lord of Lords”
“For the Lord your God is God of Gods”
And he took and sent messes unto them from before him: but Benjamin's mess was five times so much as any of theirs. And they drank, and were merry with him
“a great God”
“a mighty”
“and a terrible”
“which regardeth not persons”
“nor taketh reward”
“Lord of Lords”
So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.
” loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.”
“Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt”
“Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God”
” him shalt thou serve”
” and to him shalt thou cleave”
“and swear by his name”
He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
“He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow”
“and loveth the stranger”
“in giving him food and raiment.”
“Love ye therefore the stranger”
“for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt”
For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
“And having food and raiment let us be therewith content”
“But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare”
“into many foolish and hurtful lusts”
“which drown men in destruction and perdition”
“For the love of money is the root of all evil”
“which while some coveted after”
“they have erred from the faith”
“pierced themselves through with many sorrows”
“O man of God”
“flee these things”
“follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.”
Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:
Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.
We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth.
“Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church”
“Because that for his name's sake they went forth”
“taking nothing of the Gentiles”
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
“And hereby we do know that we know him”
“if we keep his commandments”
“He that saith, I know him”
“keepeth not his commandments”
“is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
“But whoso keepeth his word”
“in him verily is the love of God perfected”
“hereby know we that we are in him.”
Posted by: harold | September 13, 2008 1:20 PM
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Jacques comments are borderline absurd. Since when is support for Israel an issue that should decide an election about American issues? I know that it does but this insane, narrow focus does not speak well of this voting bloc, which largely supports the immorality of abortion and flirts with every liberal issue under the sun.
"In an interesting article, James Besser of The Jewish Week suggests that Palin is a throwback to a tradition of American, small-town populism. Those small-town populists tended to be subtly and not so subtly anti-Semitic. This means that the McCain campaign must steer her away from rhetorical gestures and personal associations that might concern Jews."
Just as blacks view all aspersions as racial, Jews forget that some criticisms are based on Jewish behavior that may have nothing to do with racism and everything to do with culture and ideology.
Posted by: Sean | September 13, 2008 8:32 AM
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O'Victoria, O'Victoria, O'Victoria,
Again you neglect the more important issue of the mistreatment of women and warmongering approved by your violent operating manual, the koran.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | September 13, 2008 8:18 AM
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Vicroria,
Why do you present yourself as neutral to Israel when you are an enemy of Israel?
Anyone who reads here has seen your pro-palestinian/anti-Israel diatribes.
Posted by: Jon | September 13, 2008 7:32 AM
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This wouldn't be such a bad statement on it's own-
"Well, first, we are friends with Israel and I don't think that we should second-guess the measures that Israel has to take to defend themselves and for their security."
If it weren't followed by stating that America wouldn't 'second guess' Israel if they decided to blow up Iran. And then punctuated not onece, twice- but three times with assurances that american forces would be involved.
It is absolutely insane not to 'second guess' or question that.
" Palin's strategists would do well to target the pragmatists all the while distancing her from figures who make Jews, and others, nervous."
This whole conversation makes me extremely nervous-
As for your entire Old and Young paragraph- why don't you just come out and say neocon?
Mr. Berlinerblau- it is time we stopped asking ourselves,"Is it good for Israel?"
and started asking ourselves, "Is it good for the American people?"
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 13, 2008 2:47 AM
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" A debate rages as to the degree to which Jews are "one-issue" voters who primarily assess candidates on the basis of their commitment to the safety and well-being of Israel. A recent and hotly contested poll suggested that few American Jews identify Israel as a major factor in their thinking about presidential and congressional candidates."
I read through your poll Jacques- and found evidence that supports a firm one issue monolithic vote of the Jewish people polled for Israel and Israel related issues.
Many in the upper 80's and even some 90's.
Are you sure you want to make such a contention?
Or are you depending on the laziness of most to not question and just accept there is a raging debate. Because you put a link next to it it must be true?
Are we also to imagine that the second largest lobby in America, AIPAC- (also an extremely substantial contributor to the GOP) has no effect on the jewish vote?
Palin said 3 times that she would not second guess Israel- that is not because she logged on some spiritual creds with the jewish community by her church inviting Brickner to speak- (Jews for Jesus)
While they wholeheartedly embrace Israel- it is with their intention of converting all of Israel to christianity-
This does not exactly make the jewish community feel all warm and fuzzy for Palin- There is no love lost between Jews for Jesus and american jews-
Palin did some quick footwork when she allayed those fears with her statement to unconditional support for whatever Israel deems necessary.
But I have noted often the uneasy alliance and strange bedfellows that the neocons, right wing christians, and american jews share- are all tied together with Israel and only Israel.
Their mutually exclusive endgame- is always conveniently in denial in the present- and expedites financial and military support for Israel to the tune of 300 billion dollars.
(Which,by the way- is illegal foreign aid policy for the US- the limit is 10 years- and Israel is the ONLY country that has this special dispensation)
Both sides turn a blind eye to the eventual ambition of the other- which could only be anhiliation of the other- or mass conversion-
Neither vision for Israel includes the other-
but as long as the evangelicals can cling to some dim hope that they will be welcomed there some day after the smoke clears- and convert all the jewish people to christianity- and expedite the end times and the coming of the messiah-
And as long as the money keeps flowing and the weaponry keeps coming, they will get along.
Certainly there are some jewish people who are not one issue voters- but they are few and far between and have no political power at all-
Go visit Jewcy- a liberal blog for jewish people- and you will see that- it is rare to find jewish peple politically that do not decide on that one issue.
That raging war is really in your mind- and it is a nice dream- and I wish it were so-
but your own linked poll belies that hope.
I encourage any here to actually go through it.
I wish you would find some substantive proof to bring to us here.
Posted by: VICTORIA | September 13, 2008 2:11 AM
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I kind agree with this hypothesis because a lot of jews i know are extremely uncomtable with the right wing support of isreal probaly because a lot of right christian leaders, like falwel, dobson, robertson et al had said that isreal should be supported so that jesus can come back and rule for a thousand years and any jews that not convert shall reign enternity in hell.
that is insulting and scary. beside, jews are predominatly progressive base on the hardship they had endore by christians.
oh, and there is only 1 republican jew in the house and 2 republican jews in the senate. don't know about govornors.
Posted by: melissa | September 13, 2008 12:58 AM
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Poetic Justice
"Palin Country"
by John Allemang.
Please call us rednecks, 'cause we're proud
to be so rude and rough and loud,
And act in ways elitists think
Proves that we've had too much to drink
In some dead-end Alaskan dive
When ,dude, it just shows we're alive.
We love our church, our kids, our beer;
Can tell you right down to the year
That God put Man upon the earth,
Know life starts well ahead of birth,
Don't give a damn about the arts,
And stay away from foreign parts
Until the moment that we're sent
As John McCain's vice-president.
The great thing, when your neck is red?
Nobody cares what's in your head.
The voters seem to like them dumb,
So why not pick a hockey mum
Who hunts and prays and procreates
To govern these United States?
If you can drive a snowmobile,
The people, bless them, think you're real.
And in the end, who needs a brain?
Just tell your kids they must abstain,
Pretend that when your rule's ignored
It's some great gift sent by the Lord,
And proves you'll go to any length
to make each redneck fault a strength.
From The Globe And Mail. Canada. Sep 6.2008
Posted by: Dennis | September 13, 2008 12:55 AM
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Jeremy:
Matisyahu is mad good, but, he, too, does not smoke weed.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 13, 2008 12:19 AM
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Paganplace, Paganplace, Paganplace,
We are positive that a Wiccan spell upon Sarah Palin will make her as smart as any Wiccan witch maybe even smarter than a whole coven.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | September 12, 2008 10:54 PM
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Jerusalem (Out Of Darkness Comes Light)
Jerusalem, if I forget you,
fire not gonna come from me tongue.
Jerusalem, if I forget you,
let my right hand forget what it's supposed to do.
In the ancient days, we will return with no delay
Picking up the bounty and the spoils on our way
We've been traveling from state to state
And them don't understand what they say
3,000 years with no place to be
And they want me to give up my milk and honey
Don't you see, it's not about the land or the sea
Not the country but the dwelling of His majesty
{chorus}
Rebuild the temple and the crown of glory
Years gone by, about sixty
Burn in the oven in this century
And the gas tried to choke, but it couldn't choke me
I will not lie down, I will not fall asleep
They come overseas, yes they're trying to be free
Erase the demons out of our memory
Change your name and your identity
Afraid of the truth and our dark history
Why is everybody always chasing we
Cut off the roots from your family tree
Don't you know that's not the way to be
{chorus}
Caught up in these ways, and the worlds gone crazed
Don't you know it's just a phase
Case of the Simon says
If I forget the truth then my words won't penetrate
Babylon burning in the place, can't see through the haze
Chop down all of them dirty ways,
That's the price that you pay for selling lies to the youth
No way, not ok, oh no way, not ok, hey
Aint no one gonna break my stride
Aint no one gonna pull me down
Oh no, I got to keep on moving
Stay alive
{chorus}
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 10:48 PM
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" Use your brain:
I cannot believe so many women are falling for the idea of voting for a woman because she is female."
I cannot believe this is happening just cause the media sees profit in saying so.
But being female doesn't always come with 'being informed.'
Posted by: Paganplace | September 12, 2008 10:36 PM
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"Clearly, you do not smoke weed.
No. But I listen to MATISYAHU so I get a few points..
Posted by: Jeremy | September 12, 2008 10:24 PM
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Jeremy:
Clearly, you do not smoke weed.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 12, 2008 10:16 PM
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"I have this old manners thing I was taught, that I should direct my efforts toward cleaning up my own back yard,"
My ancestors shed blood in the Civil War to give the slave his freedom. No one ever said "thank you" to my family.
Americans are involved in helping with the HIV pandemic in Africa, the genocide in Darfur and the slavery trade there. No one but you complains. You sound OLD.
Posted by: Jeremy | September 12, 2008 9:39 PM
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Jeremy, sorry, I have this old manners thing I was taught, that I should direct my efforts toward cleaning up my own back yard, before complaining to the authorities about my neighbor. And sir, if you don't see the legacy of slavery in your back yard and you are a citizen of the USA, you are willfully blind.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 9:21 PM
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Wouldn't it be just like me to, er, hog up more comment space, to say "You go, Paganplace!"
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 9:19 PM
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"What was the deal with slavery anyway?"
MISS HOGYNIST, I get the feeling that you live in the past. So I'll ask you- what is the deal with slavery anyway? If you know anything about the present world you know slavery is a global problem, especially in Africa. If you had a backbone you should work against present day slavery and quit looking back.
Posted by: Jeremy | September 12, 2008 9:17 PM
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"The pragmatists, on the other hand, view Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Fundamentalist support for Israel in the Executive and Legislative branch as a huge political asset that has provided tangible security gains again and again. For these reasons they are willing to overlook certain doctrinal infelicities."
Only problem *there* is that they're also overlooking the fact that the same people are *also* encouraging a good third of the world to think that 'destroying Israel' is what they need to do.
Which is one of those things about being a small nation and someone having a use for you in some apocalyptic war... Not that anyone these days ought to know anything about *that* sort of thing.
If I were Jewish, I'd be listening to the theologians. I have many criticisms about anyone basing anything on textual literalisms, but if you gotta do that, these guys got chops.
They can, actually be wise and stuff. Which is no mean feat when everyone's trying to use you for Mr. Bill.
Maybe it's just inappropriate street-sense, here, but if someone's stuffing weapons in your pockets and saying, 'Trust me, I'm on your side,' it's really best to ask what plans they have for the evening.
Posted by: Paganplace | September 12, 2008 9:03 PM
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"Governor Palin sure seems to be fond of Israel."
And Obama, Biden, Clinton and every other Democrat are not?
How many more double standards can the left put up here?
Posted by: rmorrow | September 12, 2008 9:00 PM
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Jeremy, I get the feeling that you're white.
I think Rev. Wright deserves to be ridiculed into silence. As we do so, though, let's give a thought to a few of his sayings.
I'm not going to quote them here.
We might do well, though, as a people, to ask ourselves, after 20 years of patting ourselves on the back for being Reagan's "shining city on a hill",
What was the deal with slavery anyway?
and
What about the way our ancestors treated Native Americans?
The rest of the world has long asked these questions of us. These questions are only "hidden secrets" here within the 50 states.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 8:40 PM
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I cannot believe so many women are falling for the idea of voting for a woman because she is female. These folks embarass me as a woman. We have always been put down because we have been told we can not and DO NOT think, well some of these women are just securing their place in the world. I and a lot of other professional women who are mothers, who have a family and a profession DO use their brain and can see right through this smoke screen that McCain has put in front of us. Lets talk on REAL issues, lets not be surprised how well she can shoot a gun or balance her life. I shoot well, I have dressed all types of wild game to feed my family but always put my children before my profession. Maybe Sarah should consider this as well since she has a new baby that has special needs. Or is someone else going to raise him? OR maybe it is her daughter's child instead, watch which female truly holds that baby in a loving hold or just displays him for the public, hmmmm.....Come on women, use your brains.
Posted by: Use your brain | September 12, 2008 8:33 PM
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Just Wondering-
You must be sitting under-
ANTI-AMERICAN & RACIST Barack Obama's church & mentor / pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright of Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago.
Here's the pastor of Barack Obama's church for 20 years giving another warped Anti-American Anti-whites sermon. Getting a little too political in his church says, "Hillary ain't never been called a nigger". "Jesus was a poor black man". (HUH?!)
TRANSCRIPT: "People have to put up with who cares what a poor black man has to face every day in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Somebody missed that. You got nervous because we got some white members here. I am still in Bible country. I am still in the text.
Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich white people.
The Romans were rich. The Romans were Italians which means they were European which means they were white. And the Romans ran everything which was in Jesus's country.
It just came to me within the past few weeks y'all why so many folks are hating on Barack Obama. He doesn't fit the model. He ain't white. He ain't rich and he ain't privileged.
Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Giuliani fits the mold. White men fit the mold.
Hillary never had a cab whiz past her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong color. Hillary never had to be worried about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong...
I am sick of negros who just do not get it. Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single parent home. Barack was. Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people!
Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a nigger. Hillary has never had her people defined a non-persons. Hilary ain't had to work twice as hard just to get accepted by the rich white folk who run everything or to get a passing grade when you know you are smarter than that C-student sitting in the white house.
OH I am so glad that I got a God who knows what it is to be a poor black man in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people.
He taught me, Jesus did, how to love my enemies. Jesus taught me how to love the hell out of my enemies and not be reduced to their level of hatred bigotry and small-mindedness. Hillary ain't never had her own people say wasn't white enough.
Jesus had his own people siding with the enemy. That's why I love Jesus y'all. He never let their hatred dampen his hope."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfu2P6cGhWo
WAKE UP AMERICA! How can you vote for Obama when Rev. Wright is Obama's mentor & church pastor who's sermons are clearly anti-american & anti-white. Obama borrowed Wright's sermon for the title of his book, "The Audacity Of Hope"!
Posted by: Jeremy | September 12, 2008 8:24 PM
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"Please vote to place me 2'nd in line to command earth's largest arsenal of nuclear weapons."
No can do. Don't have the numbers or the inclination. Leave it to the Christians, followers of the Rasta Man, JC, and Lune, Son of Lune, GB.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 12, 2008 8:03 PM
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I love Jews because I am firmly convinced that when nuclear weapons land in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem my religion will come to full fruition, and what's even better, those Jews who aren't incinerated will finally admit that I had the right religion all along, and everything will turn out ducky.
Please vote to place me 2'nd in line to command earth's largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 7:59 PM
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Would you like to have a beer with Palin?
Voters said yes when asked about having a beer with GW.
What do we have now....wars, failing financial institutions (not counting Enron), US prestige in the world is zilch.
Please, let's not do it again with Palin.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 7:46 PM
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Harold:
"It seems to me all have not seen that Saul"
Saul was Jamaican and liked to party. Paul was Greek and had gastrointestinal issues. Judas smoked blunts sun-up, sun-down. Always shared. Nice guy.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 12, 2008 7:31 PM
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Republican in California wrote,
"I am Jewish and I am voting for McCain and all of my Jewish friends and all of their Jewish friends are voting for McCain and all of the people from WWW.RJC.COM are voting for McCain and many Jewish liberals and left wing moderates are voting for McCain!!!!
"And by the way I am a former Reagan Democrat:)"
Very nice ;) Now, reward yourself with some pastrami on rye with cole slaw on it. (and puhleeze, don't even try to tell me that anything cut from the round is pastrami. That's why McCain's so pale - bad pastrami. One thing rich white heiresses don't know is good pastrami. It comes from the "plate" - the belly - or, failing that, the brisket. But please, not from the round.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 7:29 PM
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It seems to me all have not seen that Saul is in the House of Judas,
And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Posted by: harold | September 12, 2008 7:27 PM
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Harold
"I don't think Jesus was a Jew."
I've heard tell he was a Rasta Man.
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 12, 2008 7:27 PM
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I don't think Jesus was a Jew.
Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him,
"Judas Iscariot" he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
“Simon the Canaanite”
“the house of Simon the leper”
“Simon the son of Jona”
“thou shalt be called Cephas”
“A stone”
And God said, Let the waters under the Heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
“and let the dry land appear: and it was so.”
“God called the dry land Earth”
“the gathering together of the waters called he Seas”
“God saw that it was good.”
And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
“Lord spake unto the fish”
“it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land”
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
“Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit”
“Now when the centurion saw what was done”
“he glorified God”
“Certainly this was a righteous man.”
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
“according to the true proverb”
“the dog is turned to his own vomit again”
“the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire”
Posted by: harold | September 12, 2008 7:22 PM
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Who's getting the Christian vote? How come the Christians have so much power in this country?
Posted by: Just Wondering | September 12, 2008 7:19 PM
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Quoting "Why do the jews have so much power in the world?"
the seed of Abraham and Jacob walk on earth, everyone else walks in the world. The Lord created heaven and earth earth and heaven. the 70 familes are those that walk on earth that the Lord created. Ther first man was "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground," The first son formed in the womb. You can clearly see what the God of the world creates "the earth was without form, and void;" Heaven and earth are the same as are the male and female thaat are created in his image, "without form, and void." The have not the breath of life or a soul. Remember the LORD forms man and woman, god creates an image of male and female.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.And the earth was without form, and void;"
Posted by: harold | September 12, 2008 7:11 PM
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MISS HOGYNIST thank you for the words of wisedom I will take them and try to play the game with fairness and quick witted-ness ( is that even a word?, rather cold baseless brain dribble that has standing what so ever. I also thing that the one places verses up. might want to check in a historical textbook once in while. It what we normal godless people use if we want to be taken seriously.
Posted by: Simply a girl with dreams | September 12, 2008 7:01 PM
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Simply a Girl, "I will be here longer and see more. I will have to deal with what ever comes after. I will either be rebuilding a broke poor country or I will building upon greatness to make a still greater country. THIS ALL LAYS IN YOUR HANDS!!!!" is eloquent.
Every time I type a lengthy comment here, I make dumb typos, it's par for the course. Your future contributions will be most welcome, and I hope they keep coming.
You do need a thick skin to play the game here - I mean, some people will say things in reply to your posts that'll make you feel horrible when you read them. When that happens, you need to remember that they understand that in some sense, what goes on here is just a game, like knights on horses going after each other with long lances.
The sincere voice of a young person who asks nothing more than the same chance all us geezers already had in life would be a fine addition to our torture chamber.
Just don't let it distract you from the many more satisfying things that you could be doing!
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 6:47 PM
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I am Jewish and I am voting for McCain and all of my Jewish friends and all of their Jewish friends are voting for McCain and all of the people from WWW.RJC.COM are voting for McCain and many Jewish liberals and left wing moderates are voting for McCain!!!!
And by the way I am a former Reagan Democrat:)
Posted by: Republican in California | September 12, 2008 6:38 PM
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Miss Hogynist
Watch the videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awBoGSX4qDM
The Path To The Final Solution
Posted by: Karen | September 12, 2008 6:37 PM
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Posted on September 12, 2008 18:28
Anonymous:
Romans 11:26-27 (King James Version)
Anon, interesting read. Like my book better though, since G-d wrote it, and long before the fiction you read. Guess you didn't hear. It's the Christians as well as everybody else who will come to Jerusalem, be converted to Judaism, etc. I guess we can't say you plagiarized since you're dealing with short stories, not fact.
I'll be seeing you....
Posted by: Waiting | September 12, 2008 6:37 PM
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Thank you...MISS HOGYNIST. I been told I can't write. This is very encouraging. Thank you as well for actually reading it.
Posted by: Simply a girl with dreams | September 12, 2008 6:35 PM
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Simply a Girl, your post is actually very moving. You should be proud of it.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 6:32 PM
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And now comes "anonymous", advising us that evangelical Republicans are better judges than Jews of the implications of the Holocaust in current domestic USA politics.
These people have an arrogance which immunizes them against scruples.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 6:29 PM
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Jews have been the subject of much stereotype. Not only are they supposed to be clannish, money hungry, and ambitious. They are supposed to be smart. My experience, on the contrary, is that they can often be very stupid. Their fixation on Israel only makes them enemies, and not only in Arab lands but right here. They were responsbile in 66-70AD for the destruction of Jerusalem which was preceded by internecine strife in which Jew murdered Jew -- something Josephus had a lot to say about in his histories of the Jews where he denounced the crazy messsianism which led to disaster.
Sarah Palin may try to be a friend to the Jews out of political calculation but no one can really know how stupid Jewish voters will in fact be in November.
Posted by: norman ravitch | September 12, 2008 6:28 PM
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Um....I'm still young as you all can guess, but ...I not the greatest types in the world and you will realize (or I hope you do) that their are a few spelling and grammar mistakes. Please simple over look them and read though. I'm very sad to say this site doesn't allow one to edit what they wrote, so I can fix it. I'm very sorry for the problems this might cause you. Thank and please be kind with comments.
Posted by: Simple a girl with a dream | September 12, 2008 6:28 PM
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Romans 11:26-27 (King James Version)
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 6:23 PM
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The ghost of Albert Schweitzer chugs Pepto-Bismol as he realizes that *The Quest for the Historical Jesus* has been taken up in comment boxes on the Washington Post.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 6:21 PM
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I have read through a majority of the comments and have founds thing both insightful and scary. I'm not going to try and change your views to one side or another. I will make a plea though. You all hold my future in your hands, and the future doesn't care for great ideals or I want the first women or black man in office. The future simply shifts it direction based on this election. I don't care about "I'm backed by GOD" type folks, but people who say that they will give me the ground to run on and make my dreams come true. I don't want a world that thinks that I'm another stupid American. I want to go college and now my parents are okay. I want to know that I have to ability to create my own business without worry. That I can drive a car and know that it won't hurt the earth around me. THIS IS ALL IN YOUR HANDS!!!!! YOUR THE ONES WHO WILL CHANGE MY FUTURE WITH ONE VOTE!!!!!!!! You all will see their coming to office, what ever happens next, and the their either hasty or sad leave of the office. You will live on a see the effects and then pass on. I will be here longer and see more. I will have to deal with what ever comes after. I will either be rebuilding a broke poor country or I will building upon greatness to make a still greater country. THIS ALL LAYS IN YOUR HANDS!!!! please look past the rumors and media hype or hatred, research and figure out who will make better choices and who might make old ones. Choice not based on faith, color, or gender, but rather on reason and knowledge and motivation. Open your minds to both options till you her something or read that doesn't sit well with you. Don't close of the options for the one my parents would choice, their time is over, your time is now, and mine is coming. Please choice for all of us, not just what might benefit you or your family and friends.
Posted by: Simply a girl with dreams | September 12, 2008 6:21 PM
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"I have no idea what is the appeal of liberalism for Jewish people.'
Willing Spirit-
American Jews whose family members survived the holocaust have an affinity for blacks and muslims as they fear they will be marginalized in American society as they have been marginalized in the past. That's a noble cause.
They don't realise that the far left, the Nation of Islam, CAIR, etc are Hamas supporting, anti-Israel, anti-American, holocaust deniers who hope to annihilate Israel and America and wipe them off the map.
In the same way my grandfather asked- why did jews stay with people who despised them until they were taken away in trains, I ask why American jews defend those who do not support Israel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awBoGSX4qDM
The Path To The Final Solution
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 6:19 PM
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Willing Spirit, answer me this:
Suppose that a Jew dies without accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
Am I wrong in my belief that the Assemblies of God teach that that Jew will be tortured in Hell for all eternity?
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 6:14 PM
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry,
Keep in mind that Pilate was a necessary accessory in the "rise" of JC. Without that crucifixion, where would we Christians be??
And JC an organizer?? Hardly!!! Paul did most of the organizing and original advertising. M, M, L, and J did the added embellishing and ad campaign raising a simple preacher man to deity status akin to the OT and Roman emperors campaign people More necessary accessories!!!!
Christianity really should be named for The Five Voodoo Doctors aka P, M, M, L and J with their changing of wine into blood and bread into living tissue and the raising of at least two dead people.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | September 12, 2008 6:00 PM
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Sarah Palin is a religious nut who borders on the fanatic. She is dangerous, were she to be turned loose on ANY religion.
Of course, the higher-uppers are willing to USE her, for special interests, and they are willing to use God, religion, nobility of people, and, most of all FEAR to benefit from.
Specifically on Hebrews and Arabs, she would be UNCLEAN for two weeks or so, once every month, and they would need to wash their hands, were they even be willing to shake hands with her.
She wouldn't be allowed into their temples, and that IS NOT sexism. That's just their religious and moral beliefs, just as we have ours.
Right now, we are laughing stock for the political world due to Sarah Palin's "capabilities" and that DOES NOT ERASE, were she to be unfortunately, or deceitfuly elected.
Posted by: El Mugroso | September 12, 2008 6:00 PM
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Republican in California, you ask who Osama bin Laden would vote for.
Have you paused to think that your question places your vote in his hands?
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 5:59 PM
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Jacques,
I confess I had a hard time following your argument(?), logic(?), line of reasoning (?). Are we into pastiche these days? Rivers of consciousness?
I'll let Stokely Carmichael, interesting and brilliant though he was, rest, for now, in peace.
First off, Jews do not vote Republican. (Duh.) Overwhelminingly, regardless of class and class interests, they vote Democratic, a trend which distinguishes them from other religious and/or ethnic groups. Had McCain chosen a rabbi for his running mate, were Palin to convert and divide her time equally among all the many denominations of Judaism, he would not the "Jewish Vote."
Ditto, were she to move into the basement of a synagogue to be certain she arrived promptly for early morning services.
As for grandmothers confusing Obama with Stokely, I wouldn't worry since among said grannies are those with black husbands,sons and sons-in-law, whom, presumably they distinguish from Chris Rock. Ditto black daughters and daughters-in-law viz Beyonce. Then, too, among said folks are black Jews and presumably they know the difference between themselves and Alice Walker.
The more interesting and, perhaps, more puzzling question concerns Catholic support for McCain-Palin. Catholics enamoured of a Dominionist is a subject worth exploring. Care to take it up? Linearly?
Finally, please do not use "impacted" as a verb.
Posted by: Farnaz | September 12, 2008 5:54 PM
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Jesus was a carpenter-
that Jesus was a community organiser was made up by an atheist who knows nothing about the life of Jesus.
The whole Obama/Messiah/TheOne thing is generated by Obama's people because it worked for them at the start and got him on the Democratic ticket.
Its NOT working in Greater America and they should shut it down before it ends Obama's chances.
Posted by: Phil | September 12, 2008 5:54 PM
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That's Pontius Pilate, not Pilot. Don't your lib talking point masters have spell check?
Posted by: stu | September 12, 2008 5:51 PM
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I don't believe that it was a Republican that called New York, "Hymietown" and I don't believe
that it was a Republican who called Judaism a
"gutter religion".>>
thank you Sam!
Just found a nice bumper sticker that says:
"Who would Osama vote for?" with a picture of guess who....
And who would Hamas, Hezbollah, Ahmadinejad vote for? For the one that will talk to Ahmadinejad without preconditions... (oh yes, I forgot, he changed his mind later) Just like he changed his mind about the division of Jerusalem...
The one that couldn't remember which concentration camp his uncle liberated.... the list goes on and on and on.....
Posted by: Republican in California | September 12, 2008 5:50 PM
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As a young adult, I was visiting a commune in Arkansas in the early 70's. Talking with a Jewish guy, I remember explaining that my Assembly of God background teaching was to have the utmost respect for and desire for preservation of Israel. I remember how surprised he was.
No people (beyond Jews) love Israel more than those of the Assembly of God faith.
Israel will be very blessed by Sarah Palin. There is no need to fear her.
I have no idea what is the appeal of liberalism for Jewish people.
But AG people consider you to be our older brothers and sisters.
Posted by: Willing Spirit | September 12, 2008 5:48 PM
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Jewish Appeal.....I am a Jew and there is no appeal..
But, forget for a moment that I wasn't a Jew. Think about this:
Palin said at the GOP convention that Obama was just an community organizer and she was a governor.
The crowd laughed, clapped, jumped up and down and screamed - drill baby drill. On the campaign trail she has repeated the same mantra given to her.
Here is my question: Jesus Christ was a community organizer and Pontius Pilot was the Governor of Judea. Do you think the crowd was thinking at all was thinking about what they were saying about their Lord. Think about it! Hopefully you will think deeply about what she actually was repeating from one of the GOP writers.
Posted by: jerry rubin | September 12, 2008 5:46 PM
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Republican in California, you surely know that when you say "My #1 priority when I will be voting is ISRAEL", you feed Pat Buchanan stereotypes.
I'm not Jewish, but as a voter in the USA I gladly concede that standing up for that small, brave nation is a duty of honor I fully intend to fulfill - but it is not my #1 priority. That goal is properly the #1 priority of the state of Israel, not the United States of America.
I'm inclined to believe that the entire neocon Iraq project was intended to make the world safe for Israel - a good purpose - but that the neocon project has backfired horribly. I can think of no more urgent task for supporters of Israel in the USA than the task of learning why that project had the unintended consequence of weakening, not strengthening Israel's security.
If I were a person whose #1 priority was Israel, and whose #2 priority was protecting that state without bringing about a hellish nuclear World War III, I would take a serious look at Obama's disagreements with neoconservative foreign policy.
Of course, if you don't share my #2 priority, we're simply at loggerheads, and there's no point in further efforts at communication between us. We'll just have to contest the election and see how it comes out.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 5:38 PM
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"a racist speaker about Jews"
Jews for Jesus are jews. They are not racists.
Obama's mentor pastor wright is racist. He believes:
"I must tell you that Israel was the closest ally to the White Supremacists of South Africa. In fact, South Africa allowed Israel to test its nuclear weapons in the ocean off South Africa. The Israelis were given a blank check; they could test whenever they desired and did not even have to ask permission. Both worked on an ethnic bomb that killed Blacks and Arabs."
Posted by: James | September 12, 2008 5:36 PM
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I don't believe that it was a Republican that called New York, "Hymietown" and I don't believe
that it was a Republican who called Judaism a
"gutter religion".
Posted by: sam | September 12, 2008 5:29 PM
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PennJew-
I guess you MUST cling to the Jewish vote because all the time and effort the Obama Campaign put into the evangelical vote has been kissed goodbye.
Sarah Palin surely did wipe the smile from Obama Campaign's collective face.
Posted by: timothy | September 12, 2008 5:25 PM
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My #1 priority when I will be voting is ISRAEL. Therefore my vote will be for McCain/Palin.
Everyone forgot about Obama and people that surrounded him not too long ago... Jeremiah Wright and Louis Farakhan.... He got rid of them, yes, but maybe a little too late.....
Dividing Jerusalem is Obama's idea of the future of Israel? People wake up!!!
Posted by: Republican in California | September 12, 2008 5:25 PM
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Let's see. She went to church knowing that there would be a racist speaker about Jews. She did not get up to leave. She sat through the speaker's talk. The speaker was talking about God rath. He said it was God's rath when a a non-Jew drove a truck with bombs in it and killed the Jews.
In other words, I is ok for Jews to be killed sometimes cause God wants it.
How can anyone say she is pro-Is.???????? This is sick.
Posted by: john | September 12, 2008 5:22 PM
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John:
"Making sense of the Jewish vote in 2008 is something of an emerging specialization "
Oh pllllease..Every single Jewish voter will vote for McCain as they believe he's the more likely candidate to attack Iran.
----------------------------------
Jews are the most Democratic voting group after Blacks.
I believe that Obama will get MORE of the Jewish vote than did Gore or Kerry.
Posted by: Pennsylvania Jew | September 12, 2008 5:16 PM
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Where does Palin stand on 'an eye for an eye': with the Old Testament or with the New?
It certainly appears that with the Old, and therefore she may be more palatable to some, even though in this, her values are not representative of Christian values or with some Jews.
So why is she running as a Christian?
Posted by: Anonymous 2 | September 12, 2008 5:12 PM
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anticlimacus:
Jews are passionate, sophisticated, articulate and vocal observers of American politics- and rich! They give a lot of money to political campaigns- that's important!
Pro-Israeli lobbies have distributed $2,053,652.
--------------------------------
That's nothing.
It's about 0.2% of roughly $1 billion that will be spent on Presidential politics, even though Jews are about 2% of the American population.
Here's one of the things that makes Jews different. They give FAR MORE to non-Jewish causes and charities than to Jewish causes and charities.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 5:12 PM
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It's hard to pin down the theology of Protest Ants who flit from church to church as the mood's upon them, but if her theology bears any resemblance to that of the Assemblies of God with which she has been most closely associated, she believes 1) that all true Christians will be sucked up into the air before a time of terrible tribulation comes upon the earth, set in motion by events in the middle east, and 2) that most Jews will be converted to Christianity before Christ returns in glory.
Were I Jewish, I'd take a dim view of this theology. As a human being in a world armed to the teeth, I'd find it alarming that a person who presumably believes they'd be "raptured" during the first massive exchange of nuclear weapons might one day have their finger on the button that controls the massive nuclear arsenal of the United States of America.
Posted by: Miss Hogynist | September 12, 2008 5:11 PM
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Walter Lewinsky:
Why do the jews have so much power in the world?
-----------------------------------------
For two reasons:
1. The Jews are nuts. According to the Rabbis, there are 70 nations in the world, God offered the Torah to all 70, and only the Jews were foolish enough to accept -- i.e. to be Jews.
2. Everyone else is even nuttier.
Posted by: mnjam | September 12, 2008 5:08 PM
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To say that Jews are not respective of Palin's pro-Israel stance misses a very important point - and that is that Obama has equivocated about Israel and provided no incentive for Jews to support him. Additionally,his equivocation causes trepidation to the highest degree relative to his support for Israel. First he says to a Jewish audience that he supports Jerusalem as the capital, then he backs away from that statement. Palin gave complete support to Israel in her interview and McCain, who by the way is the Presidential candidate, has been supportive of Israel for decades. Who is Obama anyway? Why is he qualified to be President? Not in this reader's view.
Posted by: Rick | September 12, 2008 5:05 PM
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The significance of Jewish attitudes towards the respective tickets is mostly in its fundraising impact on the Democratic side, home to c. 85% of the Jewish voting public. A lot of Jews might have been conflicted between Obama and Clinton, but that having been settled, there's not really a serious question about how the majority of Jews are going to vote.
Few ethnic groups at or below 3% of the population overall get to be considered key voting demographics in any event.
Posted by: Mulopwepaul | September 12, 2008 5:02 PM
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What about Jim Webb and George Allen? That was no whisper, that was a megaphone.
Posted by: sam | September 12, 2008 5:00 PM
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Walter Lewinsky:
Why do the jews have so much power in the world?
-----------------------------------------
For two reasons:
1. The Jews are nuts. According to the Rabbis, there are 70 nations in the world, God offered the Torah to all 70, and only the Jews were foolish enough to accept -- i.e. to be Jews.
2. Everyone else is even nuttier.
Posted by: mnjam | September 12, 2008 5:00 PM
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P.S.
I believe that if Jesus, who was born, lived and died a Jew, were alive and registered to vote in this country, he would have the same attitude towards Palin that I expressed below. He would being voting Obama/Biden. Or maybe Nader.
Posted by: Pennsylvania Jew | September 12, 2008 4:53 PM
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When Sarah Palin ran for mayor of Wasilla, she did so based on her strong socially conservative Christian values. According to John C. Stein, the prior mayor Wasilla (also a Republican who she beat), there was a strong whispering campaign that he was Jewish. He is not. I do not think Jews of any political stripe would find that Sarah's stoop to the use of anti-semitic leanings to win at all costs makes her very palatable as a heart beat away the presidency.
Posted by: Madeleine Dunn | September 12, 2008 4:51 PM
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P.S.
I believe that if Jesus, who was born, lived and died as Jew, were alive and registered to vote in this country, he would have the same attitude towards Palin that I expressed below. He would defintely being voting Obama/Biden. Or maybe Nader.
Posted by: Pennsylvania Jew | September 12, 2008 4:51 PM
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Dear Whatever you are Berlinerblau:
It is hard to believe you are Jewish.
The Jews are a people constituted by their religion which is a system of beliefs. Israel the country is secondary to Israel the people.
The Bible tells us (falsely in my view) that the Jewish people existed before there was any Israelite territory or Kingdom; that they survived the destruction of that Kingdom; that they survived the destruction of the Second Commonwealth; and they will survive the destruction of the Third Commonwealth (the present State of Israel) should that come to pass.
It is fidelity to the Jewish world view and ethos that made and maintains the Jewish people.
Voting for Sarah Palin is utterly inconsistent with that world view and ethos. Her beliefs and life contradict every word and every sentence of the Hebrew Bible. It really doesn't matter whether she is fond of "Israel" or not.
Posted by: Pennsylvania Jew | September 12, 2008 4:47 PM
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Obviously many the commenters who speak for jews, are not. I am so offended by the antisemitism I am reading, the judgement of us, the "jews" and lack of tolerance - all Palin supporters. I vote on issues that affect the life of my loved ones, friends and the sick and dying I care for as a nurse. I don't vote for someone who feels that GOD will provide health care, education, a safe, clean environment, a pipeline through Alaska, or will bring our troops home safely from Iraq.
Go OBAMA/BIDEN - please, please, please. We need you.
Posted by: arleen | September 12, 2008 4:46 PM
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Jews would have to be apprehensive of the "support" that Pentacostals and other Fundamentalists give Israel. First, by definition, all Jews who refuse to accept Christ are going to hell. This is why "Jews for Christ" is so whole heartedly supported by Palin's church.
Secondly, support for Israel is only self-supporting in that they believe by their twisted understanding of the Book of Revelations that Israel will be the site of the final war that will end this world and hasten the "Second Coming of Christ". As most look forward to this event, Fundamentalists are actively egging on Israel in its bloody conflicts with its neighbors and positioning America "on the side of God" in the conflict.
Being a dispised race for refusing Christ as well as an unfortunate puppet in God's final chapter by voting for McCain-Palin would take some thinking, I would guess.
Posted by: Paul | September 12, 2008 4:40 PM
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Quoting "There is no need to "de-anti-semiticize" Palin's appearance with Pat Buchanan" I have meet with Pat Buchanan, I went to one of his gatherings when he ran for president. the were 2 other jews who went that protested and were removed. He is just a fool who backs it up with his mouth. Fools are only dangerous when they have a folllowing that supports their dogma and poses a risk for others. I think he is harmless as a dove.
Posted by: harold | September 12, 2008 4:28 PM
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Remember just a few days ago when the media was calling McCain's pick of Sarah Palin for his VP--a Hail Mary Pass and kept saying Sarah who?
OOPS.
Posted by: Kimberly | September 12, 2008 4:24 PM
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To Andrea,
Try to be a little more original. That lipstick thing is so yesterday.
Posted by: sam | September 12, 2008 4:14 PM
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I think Sarah should be successful in attracting all the Jews for Jesus voters.
Posted by: carl lee | September 12, 2008 4:12 PM
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I am an observant Jewish woman and a strong supporter of Israel. I would sooner vote for a polar bear with or without lipstick than Palin.
Posted by: Andrea | September 12, 2008 4:09 PM
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You know, evangelicals who express such enthusiastic support for the state of Israel don't do so because of any great love for Jews. Their love is reserved for the plot of land on which some Jews and Arabs happen to live. It is important to them as it figures in their end of days fantasy, as I see it. The trouble is that the end of days narrative ends with the destruction of these same Jews, along with everyone else who fails to see things their way. So, take it from this Jew: friends like this I don't need.
Posted by: Rob | September 12, 2008 4:08 PM
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Honestly OMOP:
Berlinerblau will follow this short ditty on
"Sarah Palin and the Jews 101" with
"Barack Obama and the Muslims 101"
I looking forward to the depth he gives this rather incipient subject matter..
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 4:06 PM
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Jacques: You wrote: "For these reasons they are willing to overlook certain doctrinal infelicities."
Doctrinal INFELICITIES?
That's pretty tame language for what it really is.
Good grief.
Posted by: SFBubbe | September 12, 2008 4:03 PM
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She is an obvious CRAMMER that has no clue what she is talking about.
Posted by: dan | September 12, 2008 3:59 PM
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Will Palin and the Jews be followed with
Palin and the Presbyterians....and the Greek Orthodox.....the Catholics....the First Baptists... the Seventh Adventists....the Mormons....the Methodists....the Muslims.....the Buddhists.....the Hindus.....etc. ?
IF NOT WHY NOT? ARE THE JEWS MORE SPECIAL THAN OTHERS?
IF THE PRESUMPTION IS THAT JEWS HAVE CLOUT AND NON-JEWS DO NOT WOULD IT NOT BE MORE DEMOCRATIC AND IN LINE WITH CONSTITUIONAL AND DEMOCRATIC WAYS TO HAVE THE JEWS FORM A POLITICAL PARTY EQUAL TO THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICANS.
OR FORM THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS PARTIES.
THEN OTHERS WITH NO CLOUT CAN JOIN THE JEWISH PARTY AND ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF BEING MORE SPECIAL THAN OTHERS.
IF AMERICANS CANNOT ACCEPT AND CONSIDER EACH OTHER AS EQUALS WITHOUT BASING THEIR RESPECT ON THE PERSONS RELIGIOUS AFFILIATIONS
THEN EVERYTIME CONDEMNATION OF OTHERS BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IS BOTH HYPOCRITICAL AND DEBASING.
WOULD IT NOT BE MORE HONORABLE AND FAIR TO SAY THAT IF ONE ONLY VOTES ON WHETHER ONE IS FOR OR AGAINST ISRAEL THEN THAT INDIVIDUAL SHOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED TO VOTE IN ISRAEL.
THOSE WHOSE VOTE IS FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE FOR OR AGAINST CUBA SHOULD ALSO BE ALLOWED TO ONLY VOTE IN CUBA..
WHEN AMERICANS VOTE THEY SHOULD BE VOTING FOR AMERICA FIRST AND FOREMOST. THE BENEFITS THAT ACCRUE TO EVERY CITIZEN, THE HEALTH AND WELFARE AND PROTECTION OF EVERY AMERICAN IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ANY AMERICAN ENJOYS AND CONSTITUTIONALLY CANNOT BE APPLIED ON A SPECIAL RELIGION BASIS.
STILL WHILE EVERY JEW IS FREE TO VOTE ONLY FOR WHOM EVERY OTHE JEW VOTES THEN THE SAME FREEDOM CANNOT BE DENIED OTHERS BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE AND OR RELIGION.
Posted by: omop | September 12, 2008 3:56 PM
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There is no need to "de-anti-semiticize" Palin's appearance with Pat Buchanan, as Pat Buchanan is not anti-semitic and I speak as an enthusiastic supporter of Obama, and one who frequently disagrees with Pat Buchanan.
Posted by: Peter Christiansen | September 12, 2008 3:54 PM
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Why would saying something nice about Ron Paul make her an anti-Semite?
Posted by: sr | September 12, 2008 3:44 PM
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Why do the jews have so much power in the world?
Posted by: Walter Lewinsky | September 12, 2008 3:43 PM
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"Sen. Obama told the New York Times he was not at the church on the day of Rev. Wright's 9/11 sermon. "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," Obama said in a recent interview. "It sounds like he was trying to be provocative," Obama told the paper.
Rev. Wright, who announced his retirement last month, has built a large and loyal following at his church with his mesmerizing sermons, mixing traditional spiritual content and his views on contemporary issues.
"I wouldn't call it radical. I call it being black in America," said one congregation member outside the church last Sunday.
"He has impacted the life of Barack Obama so much so that he wants to portray that feeling he got from Rev. Wright onto the country because we all need something positive," said another member of the congregation.
Rev. Wright, who declined to be interviewed by ABC News, is considered one of the country's 10 most influential black pastors, according to members of the Obama campaign."
Posted by: REMEMBER THIS ? | September 12, 2008 3:31 PM
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the issue about jewish influence is financial-- which is out of proportion and thus the group is critical
at the republican convention, palin met with very few--- but she did meet aipac
all this speaks for itself--- along with her strong comments supporting israels need of self defense
Posted by: gil | September 12, 2008 3:30 PM
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Does anyone remember during the Webb-Allen debate,
a reporter (who is eminently forgettable and a Democrat surrogate) demanded to know if George Allen had any Jewish ancestors and at what point he stopped being Jewish? (your papers, please).
The Dems are no friends of American Jews except at fund-raising time.
Posted by: anonymous | September 12, 2008 3:26 PM
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"she went to a Buchanan fundraiser wearing a Buchanan button as a courtesy. That's absurd. If David Duke visited her town, would she have gone to his fundraiser wearing a button as a courtesy?"
Why do LIARS always feel compelled to imbellish their LIES?
Now its absurd that Palin would wear a Bucnanan button as a courtesy and then compares Pat B to David Dukes.
Pat Buchanan is a pundit on MSNBC. Almost every morning he is on "Morning Joe' chuckling it up with Mika Brsesinski. What kind of fringe nut is she that she would sit with "David Dukes" every morning?
Posted by: Melissa | September 12, 2008 3:24 PM
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This is a very interesting piece, Dr. Berlinerblau. Thanks for your insight.
Posted by: Fr. Larry Gearhart | September 12, 2008 3:20 PM
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Oy Vey! We love her!
Posted by: Robert Goldbergmanstein | September 12, 2008 3:19 PM
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I am Jewish and I am absolutely appalled at your premise.
I belong to a synagogue and I don't know anyone who will be voting for the McCain/Palin ticket. A conservative Evangelical Christian who is anti-choice, anti-gay and has a disregard for the environment does not reflect the values of the Jews I know.
Admittedly, I belong to a reform synagogue. She may hold some appeal in the Orthodox community, but I seriously doubt that she is making inroads in South Florida. My grandfather, who lives in South Florida is frightened of the damage John McCain and Sarah Palin could unleash on this country, as if Bush hasn't done enough damage.
Jews are not one issue voters. Furthermore, while American Jews support Israel, they do not support Israel to the exclusion of all else. In addition, Jews differ on what they believe the proper course of action to support Israel means. AIPAC's view of the world only represents some of us.
One last point, how can you even call Jews for Jesus Jews. They are Christians. They are supported by the Evangelical Christian movement. One definition of what Christianity is "one who believes in the divinity of Jesus." Sorry, no Jew I know believes in the divinity of Jesus. Believe he was a great prophet, maybe; believe that he was a good Rabbi even, sure; believe that he was teaching Torah, absolutely, but he was not G-d.
You should also go back and check who a good portion of those white faces were marching in Selma. Jews were a significant voice in the civil rights movement. We were only 15-20 years removed from the Holocaust. Judaism teaches tikkun olam, "repairing the world." Jews also know firsthand about being in the minority.
Admittedly, much of my evidence is anectdotal. I don't know any Jews who are voting for the Republicans this year. I don't see any appeal and I would be extremely surprised to find any Jews that Sarah Palin doesn't scare the $^#@ out of.
Posted by: Minnie | September 12, 2008 3:16 PM
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What Palin does not want Jewish voters to know is that she and her husband supported Pat Buchanan for President. There is a clip of Buchanan saysing that both were "brigadiers," despite Palin's denials. She now claims she went to a Buchanan fundraiser wearing a Buchanan button as a courtesy. That's absurd. If David Duke visited her town, would she have gone to his fundraiser wearing a button as a courtesy?
Also, her very conservative church expresses views that are anathema to mainstream Jewish thought and values. Most recently is the Jews for Jesus event noted above; they are also about to have a "gay conversion" event.
She opposes abortion even in cases of rape and/or incest, and opposes all forms of birth control while supporting abstinence-only education- despite the fact it has proven not to work in her own family.
As mayor of Wasilla, she made sure that sexual assault victims were required to pay for forensic exams. This is consistent with her views on abortion, as a common feature of a forensic exam is the offer of a contraceptive to make sure that the rape does not result in a pregnancy. This practice was maintained in Wasilla until state law prohibited it in 2000.
Posted by: ratfishtim | September 12, 2008 3:12 PM
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Palin reminds me of GW, extremism and all. Some voters give complements to Palin, much like they did do to GW.
I remember friends saying, GW is a nice guy, the kind of guy you like to have a beer with.
Guess what! The country had a beer and more with GW. The unsettling part of having GW is that the country is pay for his beer and excesses.
Are we going to fall for that type of stuff again with Palin?
Jews I know are social and political activist, much like Obama. They can read Palin double talk.
Posted by: center | September 12, 2008 3:11 PM
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I don't really buy the "Jews are always Democrats" argument. I grew up in New Jersey and California and frankly, the many Jews I've known were HUGE Bush supporters, although many are ashamed enough (or smart enough) to keep very quiet about it.
But you're right about the basic fact that both candidates have done SO much pandering to the AIPAC crowd that the occupation of Palestine might not be a significant issue.
Posted by: Dave | September 12, 2008 3:08 PM
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"Rev. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope."
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation."
Posted by: REMEMBER THIS ? | September 12, 2008 3:08 PM
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Professor Berlinerblau has an excellent analysis. However, he fails to address the abortion issue. Since Obama and McCain are smart enough to say the right things about Israel, abortion is the big issue among Jews.
I think Palin's abortion views may cost McCain a few Jewish votes. I don't see her winning any Jewish votes for McCain. Since Jews vote overwhelmingly Democratic, I do not see Palin having any net effect on the Jewish vote.
Posted by: Aaron Finestone | September 12, 2008 3:05 PM
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"Oh pllllease..Every single Jewish voter will vote for McCain as they believe he's the more likely candidate to attack Iran."
YES!! This is exactly the truth. Jewish "Americans" who seem to support Obama are amazing actors. They should be given Oscars. But if you look very closely, you will see that it's all an act. They don't want the most inspiring and hopeful candidate for presidency in over a quarter century to win because they care more about Israel than America.
Posted by: Peter | September 12, 2008 3:03 PM
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The arena where the Jews will influence the election most is the media. The Jewish owned press facilitated the election of Bush in 2000 and 2004 by letting Republican slime pass, and playing up negative coverage of Kerry and Gore. Same thing happening all over again. The media fawning over Sarah Palin is more of the same. Jews don't need a large number of votes to influence the election, they just ensure that the American population is swayed by their biased media coverage. Now let's see if this comment is posted.
Posted by: Skeptical | September 12, 2008 2:51 PM
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"Governor Palin sure seems to be fond of Israel." That's great. What I would like to see is a candidate who owes his/her loyalty to the United States rather than a foreign country!
Posted by: Don | September 12, 2008 2:50 PM
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"Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright has made a number of controversial statements.The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism."
In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." He said Rev. Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family."
Posted by: REMEMBER THIS ? | September 12, 2008 2:49 PM
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I wonder whether Gov. Palin "supports" Israel because it is in the United States' interest or her religious interest. It would be appropriate for journalists to ask her a form of this question. There is (or should be) a national consensus that political office should not be used to advance specific religious goals.
Posted by: ama | September 12, 2008 2:49 PM
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"that one of MS Palin's pastors said the problems
Israel struggles with is punishment for killing Jesus?"
Another lie--
Jews for Jesus David Brickner (a jew himself) spoke at her church and is NOT her pastor.
You just want to bring up all that was said against America and Israel by Obama's 20 yr mentor and pastor- Wright.
Why not just quit passing lies?
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 2:46 PM
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Always ---Always go with your first responce
NO NO NO NO No No NO
Posted by: GHM | September 12, 2008 2:44 PM
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Mister Berlinerblau:
How do you write such a piece without mentioning
that one of MS Palin's pastors said the problems
Israel struggles with is punishment for killing Jesus?
Please explain your learned omission.
Thank you, Joe Kocon
Posted by: Joe Kocon | September 12, 2008 2:39 PM
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Would be nice to see the Israel Firsters at least pretend to be Americans at heart.
Posted by: JoeAmerican | September 12, 2008 2:35 PM
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"Making sense of the Jewish vote in 2008 is something of an emerging specialization "
Oh pllllease..Every single Jewish voter will vote for McCain as they believe he's the more likely candidate to attack Iran.
Posted by: John | September 12, 2008 2:31 PM
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In ten years, the history of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism with all their flaws and errors will be common knowledge and said topics like this one posed by Jacques Berlinerblau will be passe'.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | September 12, 2008 2:10 PM
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"Palin was a Pat Buchanan backer."
Stop lying. You are painting ALL democrats as "lie to win" politicians.
SLIMING PALIN
False Internet claims and rumors fly about McCain's running mate.
Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a "courtesy" when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 2:00 PM
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As nutty as the Christians....
Posted by: yup | September 12, 2008 1:55 PM
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This argumentation is ridiculous. Biden has way more appeal to Jewish voters, for he has accomplished a great deal for them in his career. Palin has done zilch for them.
Posted by: Gerry | September 12, 2008 1:52 PM
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Jews for Jesus, Berlinerblau, Jews for Jesus is her mantra. And even if she bends that towards a more supportive propaganda, it will remain just that bulls**t. She is what she believes. And no amount of Berlinerblau rationalizing is going to change that. She wants all Jews to eventually be converted to the Christian gospel. And live with that while you try to twist her recent conversion to being a friend of Israel. And by the way, not only is the Jewish vote irrelevant to the republicans, it is irrelevant to Israel.
Tony Gillotte
Posted by: Tony Gillotte | September 12, 2008 1:51 PM
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The very last thing America or Israel need is another "friend of Israel" all too willing and indeed anxious to "let her and them fight!"
Pragmatic? Not so much: dangerous and ultimately both ideological & theological in ways most of the world would not wish for.
Right-wing of all faiths might align, but the rest of us will do what we need to see that she is able to stay in Alaska and McCain can retire to one of his homes. And please, let's stop writing and talking as if "support for Israel" were a simple thing. Thank goodness for the new, progressive alternative to AIPAC:
check out JStreet.
Posted by: esthermiriam | September 12, 2008 1:49 PM
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For those interested:
JEWS FOR JESUS are jewish believers in Y'shua.
Israel TV - Jews for Jesus' Dan Sered on HaOlam HaBoker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKzZgNlh4sM
David Bricker is a jewish believer. Y'shua was a Torah observant jew and his first followers were Torah observant jews.
David Brickner on Larry King Live
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 1:49 PM
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The Jewish people in the United States need to be informed that Palin was a Pat Buchanan backer.
Buchanan is probably the best known anti-semetic author and "talking head" in the United States and he was at the time she backed him for President,
Posted by: Bob Fleming | September 12, 2008 1:48 PM
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I am surprised that people don't want to admit to the fact the this Jews for Jesus preacher just spoke at Palin's church according to google searches. These lies are easy to dispell if people really want to find the truth out. Just do a google search like I just did on this subject and read through the wild speculative stories to find the truth. Does that mean Palin or anyone must agree with everyone that ever spoke at their church? Where were you folks when Obama's church was being discussed and the guest speakers there - no where. Try to at least be honest when talking about Jesus. The Washington Post has become so biased in their all out affront against the Republicans that they have lost all credibility as a neutral newspaper. What are the Democrats in such a panic over? Vicious, mean people seem to be rampant in the Democratic party anymore.
Posted by: Joan | September 12, 2008 1:48 PM
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Gosh. Why should the Jews favor someone whose traditions have sent Christians to Israel to help fight (and universally favor the safety and security of Israel) instead of a presidential candidate who can quote the Muslim call to prayer?
Posted by: r. u. jokin | September 12, 2008 1:46 PM
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Are you serious???? Have you seen the poll numbers . . . especially in FLA??? Her Jews must convert BS from her and her Church is driving Jews by the boatload to Obama.
Posted by: Scy | September 12, 2008 1:42 PM
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It is obvious, I would not count on a person who
need on the job training to be VP. Her experience
compared to Biden is zero. The ABC interview proved her words out weigh her abilities, and it
suggest the country can not wait for someone to
be trained. A VP must be ready to step into the
shoes the first day, not next year. The country
right now is like an egg. This economy is in a lot of trouble. There are a lot other women who
has more than the experience than Palin. Do not
get caught up in her, it is too much on the line
right now. Her words and actions are questionable,
this is why the republicans shelter her.
Posted by: Voter | September 12, 2008 1:41 PM
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You should have mentioned that Obama's campaign manager, Axlerod and his financial organizer, Pritzker are both Jews.
Posted by: Richard Abrams | September 12, 2008 1:36 PM
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"What are some of her liabilities with Jewish voters, especially Undecideds?: Among Jews who haven't made up their minds yet, Palin's near total lack of foreign policy experience may be a dealbreaker. This is one place where Joseph Biden and his impeccable pro-Israel and foreign relations credentials had better pay dividends."
Under what fantascy do you believe that Obama has any foreign experience? In fact under what fantascy does Obama have any executive experience. Reliance on Biden??? You've got to be kidding. When was the last time Biden traveled anywhere other then when compaigning. So he is chairman of the foreign relations committee. Your doing a heck of a job Biden, the nations of the world are parroting the democratic ranting against our country.
Posted by: Don C. | September 12, 2008 1:35 PM
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"Palin's pastor Brickner."
"her alignment with Pat Buchanan speaks to the same anti-semitism that informs her worldview."
Has the Democratic Party become a bunch of liars hoping no one will notice? Get me out of here. Obama is doomed.
Will you people who can't help but pass lies about Sarah Palin- shut up. When your lies are confronted and revealed- Sarah Palin looks like an honest truthful candidate simply because someone lied against her. You are ruining a party that used to honor truth and character.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 1:33 PM
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Jacques,
You write about "Jew for Jesus" support for Israel as though the organization and its members has some warm and fuzzy relationship with Judaism. You apparently know nothing about the organization or its views because, if you did, you would never have written something so incredibly stupid.
Daniel
Posted by: Daniel | September 12, 2008 1:30 PM
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I am an American Jew (non-practicing, but in every other way, culturally and temperamentally, a Jew). I deeply resent being lumped together with the fanatics and zealots --- who like their eponymous predecessors may well bring down destruction on the Jews of Israel by their very fanaticism. Here are a few facts:
Israel does not equal Likud.
Jewish does not equal Likudnick Israel.
AIPAC = Likud, almost.
The "Jewish" lobby is really the Likud lobby. As an American Jew, I am repelled by everything they stand for. Not least, their cynical willingness to accept and welcome support from the Xtianist nuts who seem to think the Book of Revelations is a manual for conducting public policy. (e. g. Sanctimonious Joe Lieberman).
And to the commenter who rightly pointed out that in the end-timer's scenario, there would be no Jewish State, let me add that therewould be no world either, which in the larger scheme of things might weigh even more.
Posted by: jrosen | September 12, 2008 1:26 PM
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Palin comes from a sect that is fundamentally anti-semitic and her alignment with Pat Buchanan speaks to the same anti-semitism that informs her worldview. That is why she is bending over backwards now to prove that she is pro-Israel. In point of fact, since she has already proven that she knows nothing about foreign policy, one wonders why we are even discussing her views on Israel. She will say what she is told until she gets into power.
Posted by: Mary | September 12, 2008 1:25 PM
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I'd like to recall a few names:
Daniel Pearl
Nick Berg
Paul Marshall Johnson, Jr.
Kim Sun-il
Shosei Koda
Jack Hensley
Kenneth Bigley
Margaret Hassan
Seif Adnan Kanaan
Posted by: TERRA | September 12, 2008 1:24 PM
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If Palin's pastor Brickner runs Jews For Jesus we all need to be very concerned.
My sister is in that cult.
As a "gift" to her and my brother in law they announced at her wedding that they had taken the liberty of writing her wedding vows.
We were all agast, naturally.
She's trying to immigrate to Israel and lives there now, waiting for armegeddon at which time the christians will take over Jerusalem for 1000 years of peace.
I love my sister dearly but she is brainwashed in a CULT run by Palin's pastor Brickner.
Brickner says: "If you criticize the President its the same thing as criticizing the Pastor - you're going to hell"
NICE JOB McCain!
Posted by: JBE | September 12, 2008 1:23 PM
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I am astonished that this column completely ignores the support Palin's church gave to Jews for Jesus. Why are Palin supporters whitewashing this? The woman is an evangelical who wants us all to be good little Christians. How is this "Jewish appeal"?
Posted by: khazeh | September 12, 2008 1:23 PM
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I have never understood the belief of Jews that democrats are the only people who care about Jews. Christians believe that Jews are the honored nation because God originally chose their religious group to be the family of the Messiah. Why in the world would Jews not be able to believe in Jesus as their Messiah? God still knows and expects them to believe before the second coming that Jesus is the Messiah. Will God allow them to accept Jesus as God's son after Jesus comes again or must they believe before He comes again to rule the world.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 1:22 PM
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At this point, I don't see what difference it will make, though in the end it might hurt.
I was at a forum last night where Dennis Ross (former State Department Middle East expert and negotiator) spoke on behalf of Obama. One audience member asked him what he thought of McCain's Israel policy, and he replied that he didn't know - not that he's ignorant, just that McCain hasn't articulated a clear policy.
The same should go for Palin, double.
I was also forwarded some "fact sheets" from the Republican Jewish Coalition intended to answer the charges re Palin's connection with Buchanan, Jews for J., etc. The bottom line here was that she has a small Israeli flag in her office, an alleged good working relationship with Jews in Alaska, and an endorsement from the local Chabad rabbi. If this is all the Repubs can come up with, she obviously has no record to speak of.
I suspect her evangelical connections will turn off most Jewish voters, but will attract the ones who believe that evangelicals are automatically good for Israel. And her record, whatever it is, would have no effect on the wacko wingnut rumormongers who post swill about Obama's "Arab" ancestry, etc., like some of the earlier commenters here.
Posted by: TW | September 12, 2008 1:21 PM
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I'm jewish and Sarah Palin DOES NOT represent ANYTHING GOOD for Israel, nor for the United States of America.
...NEITHER DOES AIPAC.
When jews insist the Palestinians have a free, contiguous nation with East Jerusalem as its shared capital with Israel, a thriving economy, educated children, and medical care the terrorists will have their lies and hate ignored by the masses.
Israel's occupation of the Palestinian people is THE MAIN ARGUMENT made by terrorist mullahs to the poverty stricken, starving masses.
End the occupation and you end the recruiting of suicide bombers. end the recruiting and sooner than later the problem is over.
It IS that simple.
Posted by: JBE | September 12, 2008 1:13 PM
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The theologians find the implications of Christian "end-time" scenarios deeply disturbing and detect more than a whiff of the traditional anti-Semitism in these alleged displays of philo-semitism.
------------
This is me. I have debated with some fellow congregants the wisdom of supporting right-wing Israel-supporting fundamentalists. I'm convinced there will be the devil to pay later. ("We supported Israel for you! The least you could do in gratitude is accept Jesus Christ as your savior for us!")
Most Jews (not all) are not single-issue or identity voters. They don't all look at Barack Obama and see Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson. Nor will they be able to look past the GOP ticket's support for a)teaching creationism in public school science classes, b)the "pro-life" movement, c)school vouchers, d)prayer in public schools, etc. etc. ad nauseam, to support a candidate just because he/she supports Israel.
Posted by: Robin | September 12, 2008 1:04 PM
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Jacques,
You are not well-informed on this topic. May I offer the suggestion that before you write any further about it, you do at least a cursory investigative review of Palin's attitudes toward Israel.
When compared to her track record, the words she spoke in the Gibson interview were not only obviously incongruent with her actual positions on Israel, they skirted the lines of dishonesty.
In an election where the candidates' pastors have become topics of extreme attention, I urge you to learn the words of David Brickner, who in addition to Palin, gave a lecture at the Wasilla Bible Church.
Posted by: George | September 12, 2008 1:02 PM
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Important for the crucial 1% -- yawn...
Posted by: ranch100 | September 12, 2008 12:57 PM
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I for one trust Sarah Palin more than Obama who has ties to anti-semites who spews racial hatred such as Rev Wright, Flager, Ayers, and the Nation of Islam
Posted by: NXAU | September 12, 2008 12:56 PM
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She has no Jewish appeal whatsoever. American Jews aren't fond of ignorant candidates who are ideologues.
From Marjorie Cohn's blog:
"Palin is a radical right-wing fundamentalist Christian who would love to create a theocracy. She believes we are living in the “end times” which will result in a bloody inferno from which only true Christians will be saved. Palin recently attended a service in her Wasilla Bible Church run by David Brickner, who runs Jews for Jesus, a group the Anti-Defamation League criticizes for its “aggressive and deceptive” proselytizing of Jews. Those who don’t accept Jesus as their savior will burn in Hell, according to Palin’s brand of theology."
'Nuff said.
Posted by: Lev Raphael | September 12, 2008 12:48 PM
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Of course, she's a godsend to the Jewish lobbyists who urged and pressured America's attack on Iraq. If McCain and she get elected, the same is likely to happen for America's invasion of Iran.
Posted by: Ofcourse | September 12, 2008 12:43 PM
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I am an independent woman voter, and so, so disapointed with McCain for stooping to this stunt. Sarah Palin might be likeable, but that doesnt qualify her to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.
There is no justification for this pick, other than McCain was completely desperate. Bottom line is, he gave up his “Maverick” title for good when he allowed the extreme right to pick Sarah Palin for him.
I would love to see a qualifed woman in office, and McCain by-passed all of them to hire the functional equivalent of Britney Spears in a naughty librarian costume.
SICK. DISRESPECTFUL TO WOMEN and WRONG on every level.
Posted by: ErinL | September 12, 2008 12:39 PM
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Give me a break! Palin's church hosts someone from the leadership of Jews for Jesus. (I don't know if Palin was present or not.) But the fact that they would invite a group like that tells me a great deal about their views on Judiasm and there is absolutely no way that you can spin that as anything other than bad news. This is indicative of a group that only sees Judaism negatively and is intolerant.
Posted by: Dennis | September 12, 2008 12:27 PM
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This is a very speculative article based on trivia. If you want to speculate, would a more nuanced Obama decide to throw Israel over the side based on some intellectual claptrap, just like he threw out his support for Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. You can't get much more amateurish than that. FWIW: my radical-right Christian relatives are extremely pro-Israel.
Posted by: John Spratt | September 12, 2008 12:24 PM
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The eldest son of a Hamas leader converted to Christianity and moved to California. In this interview he tells his story.
Son of Hamas Leader: Hamas Atrocities Led Me to Convert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLjwe2b40YA
Muslims- please watch.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 12:10 PM
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I am a practicing Jew.
The holocaust was not G-d's will so that the Jews would build Israel. My grandmother and uncles were not killed by the Nazi's in a barn (burned alive) so that Jews would create a country in '48 called Israel.
Israel is not just a Jewish state for Jesus Christ to return. Get it in your heads that Jews/Sabras and Muslims occupied that area way before it was partitioned in '48.
Posted by: jerry rubin | September 12, 2008 12:09 PM
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Mr. Berlinerblau,
The specific question of Palin and her knowledge of the Middle East does not address a larger, more general, question from a different perspective:
Other than Golda Mier's Israel, what Middle Eastern Country's Male Leaders are prepared to give equal status to any elected female President or Vice-President?
Much of the predictable uncertaintees in that region have more to do with gender than they do with a specific person.
Posted by: Mrs. Silence Dogood | September 12, 2008 12:03 PM
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I am Jewish and would never think that a Gov. Palin would help me.
I went to Israel during the Yom Kippur war to help on a kibbutz while lives went to fight.
Gov. Palin would bring nothing to the table in reference to Israel. If any Jew would believe she could, then they are no different then the Jew who was VP for the Confederates during the Civil War.
Posted by: jerry rubin | September 12, 2008 12:01 PM
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I think that the selection of Palin will in fact have a huge effect on Jewish Americans, especially since so many in the Jewish community are highly educated and pretty knowledgable about the Middle East. And any observer of our region realizes the great harm President Bush has inflicted on Israel, as his policies have inflammed Arab and Islamic opinion against Israel to new heights, and the political chaos he triggered in the region by invading Iraq and dramatically altering the status quo which greatly favored Israel, is going to have long-term consequences on Israeli stability and interests. As a Palestinian, this is very refreshing, and I am eternally grateful to President Bush and his ignorance of the complex nature of my region- and I know that Palin is no less of an idiot (she still thinks there's a connection between 9/11 and Iraq, lol. I'm praying she wins.
Posted by: nadia | September 12, 2008 11:56 AM
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About two-thirds of American Jews will vote Democratic. For them, Judism is Marxism with holidays. Of course, the Jews did gave us both Jesus and Milton Friedman, so they score big points there.
Posted by: Windfall | September 12, 2008 11:53 AM
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Is this article a joke? Since her selection the party has been accusing the liberal (read Jewish) media of attacking her and thus boycotted accordingly. Any Jewish person who votes for the party or supports this woman is clearly supporting their own degradation.
Posted by: creamit | September 12, 2008 11:48 AM
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Len wrote: "almost comical considering Obama's associations with Islamists" ...
and Hamas whatever. Personally I do not care who Hamas supports. They aren't citizens and they don't vote.
Could Len please cite his sources for his statement about Obama and Islamists? If he means Obama shows some respect to American CITIZENS and LEGAL RESIDENTS who practice Islam, then too bad. Last I heard we have religious freedom in this country and yes that does extend to Muslims. I am sick of slurs against Mr. Obama because he has some ties to Muslims.
I am also heartened by the several comments written here that while Israel and its interests are important to this constituency, this election is about the United States of America.
The country is in trouble. Let's put it FIRST.
Posted by: MAIREANE | September 12, 2008 11:44 AM
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I thought that was an interesting and thoughtful piece of writing. Scrolling through the comments though, it appears that many just see the piece as a springboard to tell us why they do or don't like a certain candidate.
We really won't know how the undecided Jewish vote swings until after the election, and then we'll be able to see how Palin on the ticket affected the final vote. I definately like to see a follow up to this article after the election!
Posted by: Christopher | September 12, 2008 11:37 AM
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If anything, I find Governor Palin's "inexperience" with respect to the Middle East and the "peace process" to be an asset, not a liability.
Time and time again, the conventional wisdom regarding the nature of the conflict between the Muslims and Israel in the Middle East - that enough concessions on the part of Israel vis-a-vis the Palestinian-Arabs will encourage the latter to renounce violence and embrace coexistance - has proven to be dead wrong.
A fresh set of ideas with regard to the Middle East is just what the world needs.
Posted by: David | September 12, 2008 11:37 AM
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You must remember some facts - Obama is not African-American. He is 6% African which makes him technically Arab-American. Hamas supports his election. His citizenship background is still being questioned as to his qualification, under the US Constitution, to be president. Biden's position on Iran is very worrisome. It might be better to have somone with less experience than someone with a lot of (committee) experience but dangerous positions. And speaking of experience - how does 143 days as senator make Obama ready??
Posted by: charles thorne | September 12, 2008 11:34 AM
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Although I am not Jewish, Palin's religious comments seem a lot too Christian, Nazi style for me. She does not like the Gay population, she is too right-wing Christian to honestly be on the Jewish side of anything. This woman is just not qualified to deal with the sensitive foreign issues in the Middle-East or any other part of the world.
Posted by: mzbond | September 12, 2008 11:32 AM
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Arab-American Activist Says Obama Hiding Anti-Israel Stance
Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama is currently hiding his anti-Israel views in order to get elected, according to a well-known anti-Israel activist. The activist, Ali Abunimah, claimed to know Obama well and to have met him on numerous occasions at pro-Palestinian events in Chicago.
In an article he penned for the anti-Israeli website Electronic Intifada, Abunimah wrote:
"The last time I spoke to Obama was in the winter of 2004 at a gathering in Chicago’s Hyde Park neighborhood. He was in the midst of a primary campaign to secure the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate seat he now occupies. But at that time polls showed him trailing.
"As he came in from the cold and took off his coat, I went up to greet him. He responded warmly, and volunteered, 'Hey, I’m sorry I haven’t said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I’m hoping when things calm down I can be more up front.' He referred to my activism, including columns I was contributing to the The Chicago Tribune critical of Israeli and US policy [and said:] 'Keep up the good work!'"
Abunimah's report included a photo of Obama with his wife Michelle seated at a table with virulently anti-Israeli Professor Edward Said and his wife Mariam, in what Abunimah said was a May 1998 Arab community event in Chicago at which Said gave the keynote speech.
In an interview earlier this year for the leftist radio show "Democracy Now!," a daily TV and radio news program hosted by Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez, Abunimah said he knew Obama for many years as his state senator "when he used to attend events in the Palestinian community in Chicago all the time."
"I remember personally introducing him onstage in 1999, when we had a major community fundraiser for the community center in Deheisha refugee camp in the occupied West Bank," he recounted. "And that's just one example of how Barack Obama used to be very comfortable speaking up for and being associated with Palestinian rights and opposing the Israeli occupation."
The Arab-American activist went on to say: "In 2000, when Obama unsuccessfully ran for Congress I heard him speak at a campaign fundraiser hosted by a University of Chicago professor. On that occasion and others Obama was forthright in his criticism of US policy and his call for an even-handed approach to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict."
"Obama's about-face is not surprising," Abunimah wrote. "He is merely doing what he thinks is necessary to get elected and he will continue doing it as long as it keeps him in power."
When Obama first ran for the Senate in 2004, the Chicago Jewish News interviewed him on his stance regarding Israel's security fence. He accused the Bush administration of neglecting the "Israeli-Palestinian" situation and criticized the security fence built by Israel to prevent terror attacks: "The creation of a wall dividing the two nations is yet another example of the neglect of this Administration in brokering peace," Obama was quoted as saying.
Posted by: tina | September 12, 2008 11:32 AM
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Sorry guys - there is no longer a "Jewish vote." As has been pointed out elsewhere, these days Jews are all over the map. There is a tendency for Conservative, Reform and non-affiliated Jews to vote Democratic, and Orthodox to vote Republican, but it's still only a tendency. There are plenty of "cross-overs."
True, there are some Jews who think first of the Middle East when evaluting candidates, but they usually then think second - about US society in general and the economy now crashing down around our ears. The majority of younger Jews who have no personal or direct second-hand connection to the Holocaust feel secure as Americans and will vote accordingly.
Outside of a few areas such as New York City, worrying about "the Jewish vote" is basically a political parlour game.
Posted by: Karen R | September 12, 2008 11:31 AM
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Palin's theology is pro-Israel in the sense that John Hagee's is -- meaning the idea that a coming Islamo-Russian invasion of Israel is a necessary event in triggering the final battle between the forces of good and evil.
At the end of which, there's no Jewish state.
Posted by: samson151 | September 12, 2008 11:29 AM
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I wouldn't even hire Sarah Palin as a live-in maid, specially were she to bring:
1. Five kids, one in need of special care and attention.
2. One a pregnant teen-age
3. The baby due to be born in a few weeks.
4. The teen-age, high-school father of the baby.
5. The "First-Dude" husband.
She just couldn't do the job.
Now, for the White House, ask yourselves if she could do the job of high office which requires excellence in honesty, good judgment, education, valid experience, preparation, and availability. She has no world culture nor unbiased religious insight. She THINKS that she knows, and that's her greatest ignorance. Wishful Thinking is no substitute for real capability.
.
But if she knows what is a task of God and what not, then she should be running for Even Higher Office.
Posted by: El Mugroso | September 12, 2008 11:26 AM
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"if and when the Obama campaign decides it actually wants to win this election."
Jacques, what a quote. I guess that means you believe McCain is going to win. Cheer up, this is still anybody's game, especially since the media has taken sides in this election.
Posted by: dcp | September 12, 2008 11:25 AM
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Pragmatists??? I think we should be quite fearful of the strength of the "jews for Jesus" types. They are everywherein this country and growing throughout the world. You correctly point out that these are anti-semites. I believe they are anti-semites of the worst kind, hiding behind their hatred of Jews for a thousand or more years. Keep in mind, they profess only 144,000 Jews left (after killing the rest of us) to follow Jesus down the streets of Jerusalem! If Jews vote for the Republicans because of Palin's wierd support for Israel, then they just have not learned the lessons of the past. Do they really think Obama would even attempth to cut off aid to Israel? How much good have the Bushes been to Israel? Cheney? Rice? Palin?
Respectfully
Posted by: DJRose | September 12, 2008 11:19 AM
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You make it sound like Barack Obama aka The Messiah is more experienced and able to handle a Middle East crisis. You guys are pathitic to point out Ms. Palin apparent lack of experience. She has MORE experience in any executive matter than the 2 bozos in the Democratic ticket.
Posted by: Mario | September 12, 2008 11:14 AM
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Jews for Jesus???
What about Jews Against Obama?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpmTxCSEzaU
This video shows that Hamas endorses Barack Obama. Hamas also endorses killing Americans and Jews, turning the White House into a mosque, using children as human shields (which are shown in this video), and more which can be found elsewhere.
Posted by: tina | September 12, 2008 11:10 AM
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My ancestry is very blended. By belief system is personal and private and don't believe it is democratic to try to vote for those who wuld lean toward a theocracy with my particular beliefs.
My TOP priority, however is 100% the United States of America and what is in the best interests of America.
For Jews or other such as Italian, Norweigian, German, etc. - if their they identify stronger to the country of origin of their ancestors, then I would suggest they move to that country.
If America is NOT their top priority, then they, in my opinion, are not trustworthy voters...ONLY vote for who they think can be swayed by their lobbyists.
This does include Cubans, Mexicans, Jews. These groups seem to be SPECIAL INTERESTS groups. And I do not think they should be catered to.
The US government MUST treat all equally. NO discrimination for any reason.
Posted by: Judy Smith | September 12, 2008 11:07 AM
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John McCain's Women...
After reading Cindy McCain’s twisted half truths about her addiction and listening the twisted half truths Sara Palin spits out about the "Bridge to No Where", and her twisted truths about her political motivations, I would warn the Jewish Community to be very very careful of believing anything that the women around John McCain hand out with such emotion. The emotion may just be based on lies.
Posted by: Billing | September 12, 2008 11:07 AM
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I say this as a Jew - Israel is not the center of Jewish life nor the sole focus of our existence. We are Jews, but we are also Americans. And, we would do well to consider both of those facets of who we are when we vote. It is easy to make Israel and a candidate's views on Israel an issue, but that is a distraction from issues that are more fundamental to our daily lives and the future of our families. Unless you plan on moving to Israel, something that most of us will not be doing, then you should be more concerned about our economy, our educational system, Global Warning, etc. If you are a bubbe or zeyde, you should be more concerned about the stability of Social Security and Medicare and how your grandchildren are going to pay for college. And we should all be very concerned about any encroachment upon our civil liberties and freedoms as Americans. It is the very openness of our society that protects us as Jews. The rights we have as Americans keep us safe from religious intolerance, bigotry, and hatred. This safety has allowed us to prosper and we must be vigilant in the fight against moves toward facism in this country. As Jews, we are all too familiar with what happens when the government begins to watch people, to profile people, to use fear and scare tactics to push through policies and justify actions.
So, as a Jew, my vote is based on the future of America and not the future of Israel.
Posted by: Dave | September 12, 2008 11:03 AM
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In this age, character, faith and judgment are more important than experiences. Palin is a much better choice.
Posted by: IndependentVoterWatch | September 12, 2008 10:57 AM
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There was an article in the Post recently by some Jewish guy who wrote about the dominant lens of the Israel issue in his family and among most of their friends. In discussing presidential elections and national politics, they always asked the question "Is this good for Israel?" That was at least central if not determinative to them.
Problem being, Israel firsters and the AIPAC affiliated legions of lobbies in the US have facilitated the worsening strategic box in which Israel finds itself. By now anyone knowledgable of the true oppression of the Palestinians, the annexations and colonization, exclusive road networks throughout the West Bank etc. is fully aware that the reality of a two state solution is long since foreclosed. Fine to talk about, but no longer feasible in reality.
And as well, the other option of a unitary, democratic and non-sectarian state is totally unacceptable.
So in regards McCain/Palin, nose holding on account of Jews for Jesus mentality and other such statements notwithstanding, this ticket offers more of what has produced the doom train for Israel, uncritical and catagorical support.
Too bad it was not recognized that sometimes, a true and friendly critic is your best friend. But then, we love our lies and hate the truth. Its human nature.
Posted by: tarquinis | September 12, 2008 10:52 AM
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A question about the pragmatist's "support of Israel."
What is this "support" really?
Israel needs more than financial support and statements of solidarity. It needs help in negotiating settlements with the Palestinians, for example, a withdrawal from the Occupied Territories that will ensure its safety and security.
In the utter absence of support of this kind, it should be asked whether the Christian Zionists and the hawkish Right (such as the Bush administration), are actually "supporting" Israel or not. Or whether they are supporting simply U.S. interests in the Middle East and their fantasy of the end days.
Posted by: ra | September 12, 2008 10:47 AM
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Obama = Farrakhan. nuf said
Posted by: anonymous | September 12, 2008 10:41 AM
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"New Visions" v. "Old Gimmicks"
I trust OBAMA to tackle the Middle East and other foreign policy issues not based on his experience as a politician - but his capacity, gloriously mainfested in his book - to put emphasis on "empathy" when talking to adversaries, whether here at home or abroad. That to find what you have in common, is far more challenging to a politician, than to put your finger on a trigger.
In fact, that is the job of a politician - through the rubble of human disaster, to find unity.
"Audacity of Hope" is an inspiring political manifesto on how to govern in the 21st Century.
And OBAMA has been very open to the fact that new ideas are in fact not coming out of Washington experience.
So far, he has managed and run the wealthiest and most grassroots centered US Presidential Election in history.
CHANGE has not meant the same old experience of the past. But it also hasn't meant making a Gimmick-y choice ("Stephen" Palin, Governor of a State smaller than 10% of New York City would never have been selected.) Gimmicks over Nation. We have lived with that mantra for over 8 years. People see through it now.
Finally, the Far Right's love of Israel - as in the case of Ms. Palin - is almost sadistic. "We support Israel, as it is only once the Jews return there, that we will have the Armagedon we are waiting for!"
I would tell any thoughtful Jewish voter -
the choice is:
"Thoughtful Politics" v. "Armagedon"
It is also, in the bigger picture:
"New Visions" v. "Old Gimmicks"
Posted by: New Visions v. Old Gimmicks | September 12, 2008 10:35 AM
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On the whole, Jewish Americans vote predominantly Democratic, but the issues on which they decide their votes vary widely. Support for Israel may be a threshold issue for most Jewish voters, but, past a certain level of comfort, most Jewish voters don't cast their vote on foreign policy nuances any more than other voters do. It's not easy for a Republican presidential candidate to move the Jewish vote needle significantly in his favor by espousing policies that are arguably more pro-Israel than his opponent, although failing to evidence a pro-Israel posture is an easy way for a Republican candidate to lose Jewish votes.
Still, is there a scenario where "the Jewish vote" will matter to this election? Possibly. The precedent was set in 2000, when Al Gore lost Florida, and therefore the election, by roughly 575 votes. That's less than one apartment building in one of the many retirement communities of South Florida. And it's no secret that many of those communities are disproportionately populated by the "bubbes" and "zadies" that Mr. Berliner references. In that scenario, fear-mongering and false accusations about a relative unknown, like Obama, could score a McCain ticket some points--particularly if the attacks come from a known and still-admired (among that crowd) source like Joe Lieberman.
McCain could have gained more leverage with the Jewish community by picking Lieberman instead of Palin, but the assumption of the campaign must have been that this scenario is less likely to play out than one in which Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio decide the election--states in which suburban soccer moms and Reagan Democrats, and not the Jewish vote, historically have constituted the swing vote.
Posted by: Steve | September 12, 2008 10:34 AM
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Berlinerblau's advice that Obama scare Jewws about Palin's associations is almost comical considering Obama's associations with Islamists and his support by Hamas, Syria and the Saudis.
Posted by: Len | September 12, 2008 10:31 AM
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I have to agree that hosting a Jew for Jesus is not at all a good thing. Endorsing someone whose goal in life is to tell me that everything I believe is wrong and that salvation is just around the corner if only I'd put my faith in Jesus is not generally a good way to endear oneself.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 10:30 AM
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Jews are passionate, sophisticated, articulate and vocal observers of American politics- and rich! They give a lot of money to political campaigns- that's important!
You can pick up a copy of Politico in any Washington metro and find a profile of a new group rising to influence in the policy. It will always include pictures of organisers with famous people at fundraisers, numbers about fundraising prowess, prognosis for more fundraising in the future.
Yet in the Washington Post, when the organised-identity-lobby in question is the Jewish lobby, fundraising isn't mentioned. Instead we reflect on the the opposing demands of theology and pragmatism.
Let me correct this ommission. In this election cycle, the Arab American Leadership PAC has distributed $4,055. The Americans for a Palestinian State has distributed $100.
Pro-Israeli lobbies have distributed $2,053,652.
Can we please talk about this please! I swear that it is not anti-Semitic to do so. In addition to the statistics indicating that 2.3% of Floridian voters are Jewish, our general understand may have been augmented by being furnished the percentage of total political contributions by those voters. If my implication isn't clear, let me make it so: No other group representing 1.5% of the population has as much as clout- especially in foreign policy- as the Israeli lobby.
By what factor the Jewish lobby is stronger, or whether that strength is detrimental to the Republic, was the subject of the ongoing Walt and Meersheimer debate.
That the Jewish lobby IS much, much stronger than any comparable group, is just a simple fact that ought to be mentioned.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/industry.php?txt=Q05&cycle=2008
Posted by: anticlimacus | September 12, 2008 10:22 AM
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Jews are passionate, sophisticated, articulate and vocal observers of American politics- and rich! They give a lot of money to political campaigns- that's important!
You can pick up a copy of Politico in any Washington metro and find a profile of a new group rising to influence in the policy. It will always include pictures of organisers with famous people at fundraisers, numbers about fundraising prowess, prognosis for more fundraising in the future.
Yet in the Washington Post, when the organised-identity-lobby in question is the Jewish lobby, fundraising isn't mentioned. Instead we reflect on the the opposing demands of theology and pragmatism.
Let me correct this ommission. In this election cycle, the Arab American Leadership PAC has distributed $4,055. The Americans for a Palestinian State has distributed $100.
Pro-Israeli lobbies have distributed $2,053,652.
Can we please talk about this please! I swear that it is not anti-Semitic to do so. In addition to the statistics indicating that 2.3% of Floridian voters are Jewish, our general understand may have been augmented by being furnished the percentage of total political contributions by those voters. If my implication isn't clear, let me make it so: No other group representing 1.5% of the population has as much as clout- especially in foreign policy- as the Israeli lobby.
By what factor the Jewish lobby is stronger, or whether that strength is detrimental to the Republic, was the subject of the ongoing Walt and Meersheimer debate.
That the Jewish lobby IS much, much stronger than any comparable group, is just a simple fact that ought to be mentioned.
Posted by: anticlimacus | September 12, 2008 10:21 AM
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Here's a Palin quote from the Anchorage Daily News in 2006 when she was running for governor of Alaska that might give Jews pause:
On Alaskans serving overseas in Iraq:
Well, God bless them, and I mean God and Jesus because without Jesus we'd be Muslims too or Jewish, which would be a little better because of the superior Israeli Air Force.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 10:21 AM
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How about former New York Mayor Ed Koch's endorsement of Obama-Biden?
"I have concluded that the country is safer in the hands of Barack Obama, leader of the Democratic Party and protector of the philosophy of that party. Protecting and defending the U.S. means more than defending us from foreign attacks. It includes defending the public with respect to their civil rights, civil liberties and other needs, e.g., national health insurance, the right of abortion, the continuation of Social Security, gay rights, other rights of privacy, fair progressive taxation and a host of other needs and rights.
"If the vice president were ever called on to lead the country, there is no question in my mind that the experience and demonstrated judgment of Joe Biden is superior to that of Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin is a plucky, exciting candidate, but when her record is examined, she fails miserably with respect to her views on the domestic issues that are so important to the people of the U.S., and to me. Frankly, it would scare me if she were to succeed John McCain in the presidency."
Mayor Koch endorsed President Bush in 2004, mostly on the basis of terrorism and the protection of Israel. Now he has endorsed Sen. Obama specifically because of the vice presidential candidates.
This has got to count for something...
Posted by: Brendan | September 12, 2008 10:11 AM
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Wherer on earth does Mr. Berinblau get the idea that hosting "Jews for Jesus" is a plus with the Jewish community? It is a very big negative.
Posted by: Harriet Fishlow | September 12, 2008 10:09 AM
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There are no expert in the Middle East politic. Beside do you think Obama, Biden or McCain can make any difference in Middle East?
Cheers,
Posted by: Victor Yun | September 12, 2008 10:02 AM
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IF YOU DONT THINK PALIN'S SUPPORT FOR JEWS FOR JESUS AND CHRISTIAN HERITAGE WEEK ARE FRIGHTENING YOU BETTER GET BACK IN YOUR SPACESHIP AND RETURN FROM MARS
Posted by: Anonymous | September 12, 2008 10:02 AM
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And how much Middle East experience did Obama have before he announced his candidacy? How many heads of state did he meet with before 2007? Living in a foreign country as a 10 year old boy doesn't count either.
Posted by: Cheryl | September 12, 2008 9:57 AM
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Good Jews know that no one who believes in abortion is "pro-choice." It is a scientific fact that when a "being" exists in the womb, it is a HUMAN being, no matter what the stage of development. And that human being is not being given a choice between being killed through an abortion, or remaining alive. According to our Bill of Rights we are all "created equal" and not "born" equal, therefore the unborn have equal rights under our Constitution. However, to spiritually insane Democrats like Senator's Obama and Biden and their biased friends in the media, the brutal killing of millions of innocent unborn Americans through abortions is not an important issue. If they believed it was, these permissive liberal Democrats would acknowledge that the opposite of "pro-life" is pro-death and not pro-choice. Governor Sarah Palin believes that all human life is sacred, and therefore she deserves our respect and support.