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What Jesse Jackson Really Meant
That one must refrain from expressing a desire to castrate a presidential candidate, especially a candidate whom one claims to support, and especially when on the set of Fox and Friends, is a tried and true axiom of beltway punditry.
For some reason Jesse Jackson forgot this timeless rule of thumb this past Sunday, not realizing Fox's camera and microphone were live. (YouTube!--do that electoral thing that you do!)
Secularists, I have always argued, are people who easily acknowledge their own folly and tolerate the folly of others. Rev. Jackson’s remark, directed at Senator Obama for "talking down to black people", was pure folly, comedy gold. (Larry David -- who sets nightmares to comedy -- couldn't have scripted and staged it better.) Jackson has apologized to Senator Obama and I truly hope that the whole thing blows over (assuming that no more video is forthcoming).
If this affair has any relevance at all it serves as a warning to the presumptive Democratic nominee: he may be taking too many liberties with his base and too fast. Just last month, I came close to articulating Jesse Jackson's complaint:
"Obama is certainly willing -- I kind of wonder if some African-Americans think he is too willing (see his Philadelphia address on race) -- to use the community as a means of demonstrating that he has transcended race-based politics."
Obama’s strategists have clearly figured out that the coalition he assembled in the primaries would not be broad enough to carry him through the general. This accounts for his dramatic series of policy alterations, panders, right-ward shifts, and all-out flip-flops over the past few weeks.
If this has any broader significance, it may be that Obama’s widely discussed sprint to the Center has left many of his base constituencies unnerved. It indicates that he should have spent a little more time gaining their trust before making his thoroughly understandable and entirely necessary move to the Middle.
For more information about religion and the candidates check out Faith 2008 by the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace & World Affairs.
By Jacques Berlinerblau |
July 9, 2008; 10:28 PM ET
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Posted by: Norrie Hoyt | July 15, 2008 11:14 AM
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Why are we talking about Jesse Jackson's sotto voce comments when Phil Gramm, who is John McCain's lead economic advisor, stated that the recession was a figment of people's imaginations, and that we're a nation of whiners? Where is the outrage about that?
Posted by: Athena | July 14, 2008 10:41 AM
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yeah ---
but the fact is that Obama was and has been talking down to black people.
He hasn't given his little child rearing speeches to white people, I've noticed.
It made Jackson angry. It should make everyone angry - especially black people.
For the good of "unity", whatever that is, Jackson retreated. But that doesn't mean we have to.
Obama is not teflon. When he talks like an arrogant pompous know-it-all, he deserves to be told off.
Posted by: alain James | July 14, 2008 9:12 AM
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Senator Obama is right to continue talking about missing fathers. He should add neglect and abuse of children to the list including the sexual assault of children in families (the majority cases go unreported for children are helplessly trapped and the whole family goes into a denial mode out of fear of consequences). Suffering children have no voices and they need people who will articulate their pain and do something about it. It is better for a person who neglects or abuses a child never to have been born; at least the equivalent of stone should be hung around their necks.
Posted by: Obama Well Wisher | July 14, 2008 4:34 AM
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I can't believe how pandering this is to Barack Obama. The FISA bill basically gutted constitutional rights. He had also promised pretty clearly that he would filibuster any attempts to do when the FISA bill was brought up to him. This is not a normal shift to a general election. People were under the impression that Obama had values and stated them honestly and clearly. It was instead clear that if he really had those values, he doesn't stand up for them nor defend them. The discussion about Iraq was bad because many of the people who backed him believed that he really meant he would be withdrawing troops from Iraq within 16 months. In a debate on ABC TV, he said that he would be Commander in Chief and that the Generals would have to listen to him, though they would give advice on how to follow his orders in tactical ways. Now, he merely says he will do what they say and what they advise because they are in charge. A woman, Samantha Power was fired not only because she referred to Hillary Clinton as a monster but also because she stated on a 30 minute long television program where she was the sole interviewee that Barack Obama did not intend to ever hold to this position though he was still campaigning that troops would be withdrawn in 16 months.
As for Jesse, he never intended to say those statements on air and have them broadcast for millions of people to view. It is telling how he feels about Barack and how Barack has been speaking to not only African-American voters but all voters.
Somehow the electorate is always in the wrong. We don't listen to him. We don't raise our children correctly. We are too risque in our speech (Bernie Mac). The covers of our magazines are impolite and criticize him or make him look bad. We are subject to lectures on race, family, patriotism, etc. We can't be trusted in phone conversations without the government listening in without a warrant. He has taken on the position of morals manager for the entire nation.
And you base your entire article which is supposed to be about religion on criticizing people for not having faith in Barack. There isn't a position that Barack has that is steadfast except that he somehow deserves to be president and you merely second that opinion. With my country and the presidency in the balance, I demand more.
Posted by: Lynn E | July 14, 2008 3:18 AM
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I can't believe how pandering this is to Barack Obama. The FISA bill basically gutted constitutional rights. He had also promised pretty clearly that he would filibuster any attempts to do when the FISA bill was brought up to him. This is not a normal shift to a general election. People were under the impression that Obama had values and stated them honestly and clearly. It was instead clear that if he really had those values, he doesn't stand up for them nor defend them. The discussion about Iraq was bad because many of the people who backed him believed that he really meant he would be withdrawing troops from Iraq within 16 months. In a debate on ABC TV, he said that he would be Commander in Chief and that the Generals would have to listen to him, though they would give advice on how to follow his orders in tactical ways. Now, he merely says he will do what they say and what they advise because they are in charge. A woman, Samantha Power was fired not only because she referred to Hillary Clinton as a monster but also because she stated on a 30 minute long television program where she was the sole interviewee that Barack Obama did not intend to ever hold to this position though he was still campaigning that troops would be withdrawn in 16 months.
As for Jesse, he never intended to say those statements on air and have them broadcast for millions of people to view. It is telling how he feels about Barack and how Barack has been speaking to not only African-American voters but all voters.
Somehow the electorate is always in the wrong. We don't listen to him. We don't raise our children correctly. We are too risque in our speech (Bernie Mac). The covers of our magazines are impolite and criticize him or make him look bad. We are subject to lectures on race, family, patriotism, etc. We can't be trusted in phone conversations without the government listening in without a warrant. He has taken on the position of morals manager for the entire nation.
And you base your entire article which is supposed to be about religion on criticizing people for not having faith in Barack. There isn't a position that Barack has that is steadfast except that he somehow deserves to be president and you merely second that opinion. With my country and the presidency in the balance, I demand more.
Posted by: Lynn E | July 14, 2008 3:17 AM
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I can't believe how pandering this is to Barack Obama. The FISA bill basically gutted constitutional rights. He had also promised pretty clearly that he would filibuster any attempts to do when the FISA bill was brought up to him. This is not a normal shift to a general election. People were under the impression that Obama had values and stated them honestly and clearly. It was instead clear that if he really had those values, he doesn't stand up for them nor defend them. The discussion about Iraq was bad because many of the people who backed him believed that he really meant he would be withdrawing troops from Iraq within 16 months. In a debate on ABC TV, he said that he would be Commander in Chief and that the Generals would have to listen to him, though they would give advice on how to follow his orders in tactical ways. Now, he merely says he will do what they say and what they advise because they are in charge. A woman, Samantha Power was fired not only because she referred to Hillary Clinton as a monster but also because she stated on a 30 minute long television program where she was the sole interviewee that Barack Obama did not intend to ever hold to this position though he was still campaigning that troops would be withdrawn in 16 months.
As for Jesse, he never intended to say those statements on air and have them broadcast for millions of people to view. It is telling how he feels about Barack and how Barack has been speaking to not only African-American voters but all voters.
Somehow the electorate is always in the wrong. We don't listen to him. We don't raise our children correctly. We are too risque in our speech (Bernie Mac). The covers of our magazines are impolite and criticize him or make him look bad. We are subject to lectures on race, family, patriotism, etc. We can't be trusted in phone conversations without the government listening in without a warrant. He has taken on the position of morals manager for the entire nation.
And you base your entire article which is supposed to be about religion on criticizing people for not having faith in Barack. There isn't a position that Barack has that is steadfast except that he somehow deserves to be president and you merely second that opinion. With my country and the presidency in the balance, I demand more.
Posted by: Lynn E | July 14, 2008 3:16 AM
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I can't believe how pandering this is to Barack Obama. The FISA bill basically gutted constitutional rights. He had also promised pretty clearly that he would filibuster any attempts to do when the FISA bill was brought up to him. This is not a normal shift to a general election. People were under the impression that Obama had values and stated them honestly and clearly. It was instead clear that if he really had those values, he doesn't stand up for them nor defend them. The discussion about Iraq was bad because many of the people who backed him believed that he really meant he would be withdrawing troops from Iraq within 16 months. In a debate on ABC TV, he said that he would be Commander in Chief and that the Generals would have to listen to him, though they would give advice on how to follow his orders in tactical ways. Now, he merely says he will do what they say and what they advise because they are in charge. A woman, Samantha Power was fired not only because she referred to Hillary Clinton as a monster but also because she stated on a 30 minute long television program where she was the sole interviewee that Barack Obama did not intend to ever hold to this position though he was still campaigning that troops would be withdrawn in 16 months.
As for Jesse, he never intended to say those statements on air and have them broadcast for millions of people to view. It is telling how he feels about Barack and how Barack has been speaking to not only African-American voters but all voters.
Somehow the electorate is always in the wrong. We don't listen to him. We don't raise our children correctly. We are too risque in our speech (Bernie Mac). The covers of our magazines are impolite and criticize him or make him look bad. We are subject to lectures on race, family, patriotism, etc. We can't be trusted in phone conversations without the government listening in without a warrant. He has taken on the position of morals manager for the entire nation.
And you base your entire article which is supposed to be about religion on criticizing people for not having faith in Barack. There isn't a position that Barack has that is steadfast except that he somehow deserves to be president and you merely second that opinion. With my country and the presidency in the balance, I demand more.
Posted by: Lynn E | July 14, 2008 3:14 AM
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Jesse Jackson---
Morally Corrupt,
Adulterer,
Racist,
And this is the great moral compass??
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
It had to be humiliating to be spanked by his son in the national press.
Galations talks about the fruitage of the spirit. Jackson is clearly NOT producing fruitage. Then it speaks of the works of the flesh which certainly sounds like Jackson these days:
Galations 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these : fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, 21 envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
For a clergyman, he sure doesn't act like he's read his bible. What a surprise...
Posted by: Thinking out Loud | July 13, 2008 11:49 PM
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It's been said, "there's more than one way to skin a cat." The easiest way of course is for the cat take his coat off himself without being asked to do so.
Obama insists on being the cat that skinned himself. Being Harvard trained he will surely hang it in the closet.
He has the backing of illegal immigrants, labor unions, ecologists, gays, black organizations of all kinds, Hollywood, hippies, yippies, pimps, pot-heads and pushers. Now he seeks the support of the evangelicals. Could he actually understands that only God can save his candidacy?
McCain only gets those concerned about the price of food and gasoline that Obama doesn't already have locked up.
Posted by: BGone | July 13, 2008 2:48 PM
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WHAT THE HECK DOES DENNIS DOELGER MEAN? He sounds like a mental defective.
Posted by: candide | July 13, 2008 2:44 PM
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as a delegate to the Austin Convention in June your objection came to me and then i thought no this county has come futher than that in my 56yrs of living in it i quess i was wrong.
dennis doelger
Posted by: Dennis Doelger | July 13, 2008 1:15 PM
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I don't find Obama's shift towards the center at all surprising. He has always struck me as someone who believes that government is about building consensus and compromise - a stark contrast to the "our way or the highway" mentality of the Bush administration and the Republican Congress that enabled it. That's why I support him. A representative government should be just that - representative of all the people. It should not be a tyranny of the majority, no matter how tempting it is to punish the right for the next thousand years for the sins of Bush and his cronies.
When it comes to Jesse Jackson, I find his career built on never letting blacks forget that they're victims, to be far more insulting and patronizing to black people than Obama's personal responsibility mantra. If blacks ever stop feeling sorry for themselves, what will Jackson do for a living? The black community should have kicked him to the curb years ago.
Posted by: Chip | July 13, 2008 1:10 PM
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When we were in Austin at the democtic convention as delegates we thouht about this very thing i assumed that in my 56yrs of life that this county had evoled more then this. evidenly i was worng
Posted by: Dennis Doelger | July 13, 2008 1:09 PM
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as a delegate to the Austin Convention in June your objection came to me and then i thought no this county has come futher than that in my 56yrs of living in it i quess i was wrong.
dennis doelger
Posted by: Dennis Doelger | July 13, 2008 12:48 PM
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Not only Jackson's own behavior is questionable on sexual matters. The same was true of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Blacks have this problem because they do not possess a Super Ego.
Posted by: candide | July 13, 2008 12:34 PM
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Reverend Jesse Jackson's offensive comments were directed at Senator Barack Obama's Father's Day speech. Senator Obama was identifying the terrible reality that an overwhelming percentage of black children are born to single mothers. All too often these handicapped offspring fail to complete high school and half of them wind up involved in the criminal justice system. Obama and a handful of others are taking the lead in calling for a new sense of responsiblity for all males. Jesse Jackson an Ordained Minister by his own conduct shows a disrespect for women. I do not however recommend castration. Rev. B.F. Hillenbrand respect.
Posted by: Bernard F. Hillenbrand | July 13, 2008 10:34 AM
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Who is Obama's base? Surely you can't be suggesting that his base voted for Obama merely because they are black and Obama is the black candidate? Why to even hint at that would be. . .racist.
Posted by: Bev | July 13, 2008 8:25 AM
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Obama's made some flips, but I don't think this call to parental responsibility that ticked off Jackson is one of them. That's been part of his message and appeal all along.
Posted by: newageblues | July 13, 2008 7:59 AM
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America will not vote for a black president; it will not endure a black woman in the White House, except serving at table or washing dishes. This is all obvious but political correctness refuses to allow it to be expressed.
We want a white president in the WHITE House. Period.
Posted by: candide | July 13, 2008 7:48 AM
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America will not vote for a black president; it will not endure a black woman in the White House, except serving at table or washing dishes. This is all obvious but political correctness refuses to allow it to be expressed.
We want a white president in the WHITE House. Period.
Posted by: candide | July 13, 2008 7:48 AM
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It is a sad fact that non-whites are very often madly jealous of each other in a white man's society. The competition among them is fierce and they try to sabotage other members of their own ethnic group out of envy, envy alone. Multicultural societies built up of immigrants is extremely complex, for there is no way of knowing how people being thrown together from different cultures adapt to their countries of adoption. Some of them retain the worst from their original cultures and pick the worst from their countries of adoption. Many non-white successful people are accused of ignoring, and even treating their own people with contempt, while catering only to whites.
How Senator Obama treats the blacks will reflect where he fits on the spectrum of a non-white man in a white man's country. Will he treat all equally, including the blacks? By his fruits shall ye know him. It is yet too early to say for he is now only concentrating on winning votes from all.
If there is envy from some in the black community expressed in all sorts of ways, Senator Obama should not be surprised.
It would be wonderful thing if Senator Obama does indeed turn out to be the Mahatma Gandhi of the US. Good for the US, good for the world.
Posted by: Obama Well Wisher | July 13, 2008 3:12 AM
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Its apparent from reading all the posts that many people have not listened to what Obama has been saying. Unlike the Republican political ads, Obama is not the "most liberal" sentor in the Senate. In actuallity he would be better defined as a Rockefeller or Romney (George) Republican. His views are closer to those of these two 60s politcal leaders than anyone else. Second, to the person who said an Obama administration would be another Carter administration. If Carter had won a second term, we wouldn't be paying $4.00 a gallon for gas right now. Carter wanted Americans to conserve energy and to develop alternative energy sources. Reagan, with his "Morning in America" campaign ridiculed that idea and said we don't need to conserve, there is plenty of oil. Well, 28 years later, we are paying for our hubris.
Posted by: repub | July 13, 2008 3:03 AM
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Its apparent from reading all the posts that many people have not listened to what Obama has been saying. Unlike the Republican political ads, Obama is not the "most liberal" sentor in the Senate. In actuallity he would be better defined as a Rockefeller or Romney (George) Republican. His views are closer to those of these two 60s politcal leaders than anyone else. Second, to the person who said an Obama administration would be another Carter administration. If Carter had won a second term, we wouldn't be paying $4.00 a gallon for gas right now. Carter wanted Americans to conserve energy and to develop alternative energy sources. Reagan, with his "Morning in America" campaign ridiculed that idea and said we don't need to conserve, there is plenty of oil. Well, 28 years later, we are paying for our hubris.
Posted by: repub | July 13, 2008 3:02 AM
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Why is it so horrible for Jesse Jackson to say something like this in private? It's crude, but almost everyone says occasionally crude things in private, or vents beyond what one would ever say in public. Jackson appears to truly believe that Obama sometimes "talks down to black people". That's a legitimate point of view based on Obama's speeches critical of certain behaviors, whether you agree with Jackson or not. A private comment doesn't mean Jackson is envious or bitter or vain or greedy. Now PLEASE move on to some other story.
Posted by: webg | July 13, 2008 2:03 AM
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Jackson sore. Jackson angry. Jackson envious. Jackson master verbalizer commits verbal suicide. But for a price Ugarte, for a price. Jackson understands this is his last chance to dethrone the new champion Obama. Jackson stupid. Jackson dont know when to call it a day. Jackson is not sure of his contributions to racial harmony or equality. Jackson stupid. Jackson puts self over nations welfare. Jackson is berated by his own son. Jackson is his own worst enemy. Result? Jackson makes Obama look even more appealing to white and black and Asian and Hispanic audiences. Jackson sad. Jackson is irrelevant. Jackson doesnt want to see confrontational politics to end. Jackson is anachronistic. Jackson is dinosaur.
Too bad.
Tony Gillotte
Posted by: Tony Gillotte | July 12, 2008 11:43 PM
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Jackson sore. Jackson angry. Jackson envious. Jackson master verbalizer commits verbal suicide. But for a price Ugarte, for a price. Jackson understands this is his last chance to dethrone the new champion Obama. Jackson stupid. Jackson dont know when to call it a day. Jackson is not sure of his contributions to racial harmony or equality. Jackson stupid. Jackson puts self over nations welfare. Jackson is berated by his own son. Jackson is his own worst enemy. Result? Jackson makes Obama look even more appealing to white and black and Asian and Hispanic audiences. Jackson sad. Jackson is irrelevant. Jackson doesnt want to see confrontational politics to end. Jackson is anachronistic. Jackson is dinosaur.
Too bad.
Tony Gillotte
Posted by: Tony Gillotte | July 12, 2008 11:42 PM
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Athena has a good point - Jackson is jealous, because as important as he used to be, he's pretty much a nobody these days.
Additionally, the "all our problems are the fault of a racist America" crowd (led by folks like Jackson, well where will they go now? How will they be able to make a living on their victimization when "the Man" is a black man?
We forget how pervasive racism used to be. Recently I channel surfed past the horrible film "National Lampoons fanily vacation". The scene they were on was where the white family was lost and pulled into a black owned gas station. While one black man kept Chevy Chase occupied (and cheating him of his money), the other "sneaky black folks" stole their hubcaps. The idea of all blacks being threatening, theiving, and basically dishonest was "funny" enough to be accepted without question in a popular film. This was post-Jim Crow, post-segration, yet totally acceptable to "liberal" Hollywood and America in general.
Whatever one might say about the current era, the election of Obama will certainly define the end of open, acceptably racism.
Posted by: Marc Edward | July 12, 2008 7:00 PM
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"But we don't get word number one on his spposed expertise, J*wish civilization. Perhaps it has been perfected."
I woulldn't worry too much about his expertise in Jewish civilization. Just a guess, but it probably exceeds yours. If you look at the titles of his recent books and the school at Georgetown with which he is affiliated, you just might be able to piece together what qualifies him to address religion in politics. A professor of English literature may and often does look at the ways literature is used politically. You're being much too narrow in your understanding of what constitutes a scholarly work. This fellow has the creds. to speak on this topic, more of them than you or I. That doesn't mean, of course, that his views are right and ours are wrong.
Posted by: Leah | July 12, 2008 4:51 PM
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Anonymous: sez "Senator Obama should be judged on his abilities as a leader..."
We have two from which to choose:
a) McCain who led brave men into battle and fought along side them.
b) Obama who lawyer-ed for welfare cases, south side of Chicago, getting them a few dollars more. He surely was one of those responsible for bankrupting the Illinois public assistance program.
People are getting introduced to the real Obama which explains why McCain's numbers are rising while Obama's are falling even though McCain can't get a decent plug from the media. Like it or not we're at war. Who do you trust to know what to do and have the courage to do it when the phone rings at 2 in the morning?
Obama could turn the tide by coming out for an end to the EPA and the repeal of all ecological laws clearing the path for an energy rich America like it was before them. That cuts into his strongest "faith" base, the ecologicals who care more about flies, beetles, butterflies, rats and spotted owls than whether or not America is bankrupted by imported oil.
Religion is the great enemy of democracy, economies and mankind in general. The most dangerous religion is Ecologistism which is just a few degrees more dangerous than Islam. bin-Laden is dancing with glee at $147 oil. 10 years ago he said that Islam wins when oil reaches $144.
Earth is the "Forbidden Planet" where the enemy within that resides in the ID has been sanctified, called God when in reality it's the biggest Devil of them all, Lucifer. Do I need to point out the hoax buster web site or are you beyond help like most all others here?
Posted by: BGone | July 12, 2008 4:03 PM
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"But we don't get word number one on his spposed expertise, J*wish civilization. Perhaps it has been perfected."
I woulldn't worry too much about his expertise in Jewish civilization. Just a guess, but it probably exceeds yours. If you look at the titles of his recent books and the school at Georgetown with which he is affiliated, you just might be able to piece together what qualifies him to address religion in politics. A professor of English literature may and often does look at the ways literature is used politically. You're being much too narrow in your understanding of what constitutes a scholarly work. This fellow has the creds. to speak on this topic, more of them than you or I. That doesn't mean, of course, that his views are right and ours are wrong.
Posted by: Leah | July 12, 2008 3:59 PM
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"...He may be taking too many liberties with his base, and too fast...
"...just last month I came close to articulating
Jesse Jackson's complaint."
So besides total (often sneering and scolding)
insight and knowledge of evangelicals and mainstream Christians and Catholics, Berlinerblau is the oracle and decider on black politics.
But we don't get word number one on his spposed expertise, J*wish civilization. Perhaps it has been perfected.
Posted by: Lorraine | July 12, 2008 10:11 AM
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Newark, Obama's father abandoned him and his mother when he was very young and moved back to Africa. Perhaps thats where some of his emotional energy about irresponsible fathers comes from.
Both his mother and father died young from the effects of living unhealthy lifestyles. Neither of them will visit Obama in the White House.
Posted by: ZZim | July 12, 2008 9:44 AM
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It won't be long before some pundit somewhere starts the criticism that the real African american has no reason to vote for a half black raised by a white grandmother...where are his real parents? When will the press dig up the Kenyan father, why won't he arrive to live in the Whitehouse, when or why won't he arrive to share a life with his son and family.
Posted by: Newark | July 12, 2008 9:02 AM
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Senator Obama should be judged on his abilities as a leader and on the merit of his policies not on his speaking ability as a pastor. He has attended the services of a very good orator, Rev Jeremiah Wright for twenty years. Why should he not have imbibed the skills to speak like a pastor from Rev Wright? Does the country need a pastor or a President?
Posted by: Anonymous | July 12, 2008 3:58 AM
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It is wrong to judge anyone based entirely on the color of their skin. It is important to know the social milieu they come from, the education they have had, the people they socialized with, the values they adopted. Success changes people overnight. So the experiences that shaped a person's life is vitally important. To imagine just because a person has black/brown skin he thinks like a black/brown person is simplistic. When a colored/black person learns to survive in a white man's world, they adapt in ways that is extremely complex. Some have been found to become more racist than the white person who is not caught in the struggle to survive because of the skin color. Look for those hidden shadows before declaring anyone a saint. Professor Robert Jensen put it quite wisely that successful non-blacks in America usually feel and act like a white person. It may be true also of very successful black people.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 12, 2008 3:44 AM
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It is completely unfair to Senator John McCain to be tested on his pastor skills. He is running for President, not Pastor, remember? And just in case anyone forgot, there is separation of Church and State.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 12, 2008 3:15 AM
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President + Pastor = Theocracy
Jesus Christ = not theocrat
Mohammad = theocrat
Is government funded faith programs merely a move to get all religious votes?
Separation of State and Church?
When government meddles in religious issues how can they work independently?
Thoughts, thoughts...
Posted by: Anonymous | July 12, 2008 3:11 AM
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Is it true that Senator Obama would rather have Americans learn Spanish than Spanish speaking immigrants learn English?
Read Ramesh Ponnuru's discussion blog on the Washington Post.
It can't be real! It can't be true!
If it is real then is it sign of an elitist more elitist than a white elitist.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 12, 2008 3:04 AM
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why is the main topic being side-stepped? Why not talk about degrading comments about obama Jackson made?
The irony of traditions is that Jackson is still called Reverend even after fathering a child out of wedlock?????
and jackson talks of castration!!
Posted by: center | July 12, 2008 12:26 AM
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Arminius:
NBC is my source. I think it's several averaged making it a lot more accurate. There are others that already have McCain ahead.
Both NBC and CNN say the same thing and are within the margin of polling error the same. Momentum is clearly in McCain's favor. Don't forget he won primaries in spite of being behind in the polls.
Obama is campaigning on the same old worn out liberal story of tax and spend on welfare with some larceny for the flavor in the form of lowering taxes. Cutting taxes makes him sound like a Republican.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 12, 2008 12:22 AM
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Hey guys, thanks for the replies.
I still think Obama won the primary by being more consistently liberal than Hillary and that's making it difficult for him to pivot to the center.
I also believe that Hillary had very skillfully left herself plenty of caveats, loopholes and equivocations so that she could have made the same move effortlessly.
McCain is and has always been pretty hard to define ideologically. The Left-Right spectrum just doesn't seem to apply to him very well.
I'd talk more but we've pretty much beaten this horse to death and it's almost my bedtime. We'll see how it all falls out in November.
Boo-Boo Teddie is waiting...
Posted by: ZZim | July 11, 2008 9:56 PM
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latest polls:
Latest CNN National Poll of Polls:
Obama 48%
McCain 42%
Apparently your source for polls is Rush Bimbo.
Posted by: Arminius | July 11, 2008 9:04 PM
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ZZIM:
"during the primary but Hillary had to move left on healthcare"
Clinton began the campaign to the right of her historic position on health care and never waivered.
Initially, as first lady, she sought to nationalize healthcare, and encountered a degree of sexism that shocked even some conservatives. What occurred with her now was far more intense. Now, nothing was off limits, not even her daughter.
Posted by: Farnaz | July 11, 2008 8:44 PM
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ZZIM:
BTW., regarding immigration, the most liberal of all the primary candidates was John McCain, author and sponsor of McCain Kennedy, defeated in Congress with hardly a wave. Politics are rarely cut and dry.
A qualifier on Hamas: Economically, it is leftist. So was the Soviet Union, though it was less barbaric in its treatment of women and a few other things.
Posted by: Farnaz | July 11, 2008 8:38 PM
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ZZIM:
Clinton supported mandatory healthcare from Day 1. In fact, she fought vigorously for mandatory healthcare as first lady and took almost unbelievable flak for it.
Obama never supported mandatory healthcare. The quote by Krugman (New YOrk Times) is authentic. He gave the link and I followed it. (YOu can go to the times and do the same.)
Clinton's position included pathways to immigration not seen in Obama's who spoke of current between-status and undocumented immigrants moving to the back of the line. Undocumented immigrants, btw. Among Clinton's proposals was the "Dream Plan" for college students between statrus, i.e., temporarily, it would seem, undocumented due to Immigration difficult to unravel. These students cannot get appropriate visas, pay double tuition, risk being thrown out of college, but, at the same time, are wanted in college.
As Senator, btw., Obama voted for unconditional funding support for the war in Iraq twice.
I don't see your five ways. You mention Obama's more liberal voting record. It wasn't.
I see no change one way or the other in Obama's Israel policy.
Hamas is not "left-wing"! Its organization is autocratic in the extreme, its oppression of women is unspeakable.
BTW., I'm not in a battle with you.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 11, 2008 8:33 PM
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Last month: Obama 51 McCain 36
This month: Obama 44 McCain 41
Next month: Obama 36 McCain 51
McCain has done nothing, made no headlines to speak of so Obama with all the attention must be defeating himself. The best campaign strategy for McCain is to go on vacation.
Posted by: latest polls | July 11, 2008 8:14 PM
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Farnaz, I don't see any examples of Obama being to the right of Clinton in your original post. Just a second hand quote from Krugman and something about a newspaper endorsement that you imply means Clinton is to Obama's left.
My understanding of the Post's endorsement at the time was that it was the same as Limbaugh's endorsement - Clinton being seen by the right as a stronger opponent for McCain than Obama because Hillary and McCain are both moderates and have moderate voting records. Obama has a liberal voting record (in strong contrast to his rhetoric).
Notice how he is experiencing difficulties in moving far enough to the center to compete in the general election. The FISA bill is a good example. Before he opposed it and now he supports it. He's catching a lot of flak for that from his base.
Hamas has withdrawn its endorsement as well.
Clinton and Obama both endorsed pretty similar positions during the primary but Hillary had to move left on healthcare, opposition to the (currently successful) war in Iraq, and free trade to do so. Obama had to move right on support for Israel and precondition-less negotiations with foreign leaders like Ahmanijedad and Castro.
There - at least five or six concrete examples supporting my assertion. Where are yours?
Posted by: ZZim | July 11, 2008 7:54 PM
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Fate:
IBM is just one example of "an organization" that rents it's property. I'm not privy to their business practices and would not be surprised if they DOUBLE RENT their real property. The first rent is to the government and called real property taxes. Don't pay and get evicted -lot of that going around right now.
I know all about REITs and know they don't own a square inch of land. It all belongs to the government. REITs like all but religions must rent from the government.
Only when the ecologists approve can anything be done on any land. De facto, ecologist are the only owners of land in the country,, unless religions can do things on their land without the ecologicals approval.
America is stuck with Ecologistism perceived to be the cause of the economic disaster and Obama is stuck with them, liberal is the word. Both will be gotten rid of at the same time. It's happened many times throughout history. "Change you can believe in is revolution" that always comes with land reform. Obama is conducting a revolution. Does he understand he's on the wrong side? Will he change sides?
Good luck selling Bubba on taking the bus to church and riding in the back seat. He has change in mind alright. 85% of the folks in the whole country including a higher percentage of those living in commuter states like California where there are no buses are Bubbas at heart. It gives Bubba a thrill to hear they're gonna drill. All Bubba can say now is why didn't they do that a long time ago. The answer is Ecologistism, the religion that bears the blame for the economic disaster afoot right now.
Democrats have taken New York and California for granted for a long time. Obama must carry both to win. Harlem, Watts and Santa Barbara will vote overwhelmingly for Obama. The first two are yet to hear about automobiles and the third thinks cars come with chauffeur.
Posted by: BGone | July 11, 2008 6:13 PM
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Hi ZZIM:
Some ways Obama was and is to the right of Clinton are in my original post. Scroll down!
Gotta go-
Farnaz
Posted by: Farnaz | July 11, 2008 5:15 PM
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Sorry, Farnaz, ain't got time to explain it to you.
Perhaps you could give us examples of how Obama's really to the right of Hillary instead.
Posted by: ZZim | July 11, 2008 4:40 PM
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Farnaz,
The omission of the word ending was intentional. Glad you caught it and appreciated it!
Janet
Posted by: Janet | July 11, 2008 4:22 PM
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Janet and ZZIM:
Janet, you are correct about going to the web sites and beyond. One had to go beyond since the web sites were sketchy, but I think they gave fair impressions on the candidates' positions on health care and immigration. (So you think Obama "gives good speech"! Was the omission of the word ending intentional? If so, perfectly put and very funny.)
ZZIM, Why do you say Obama is more liberal? In what ways? Can you explain?
Thanks!
Posted by: Farnaz | July 11, 2008 4:17 PM
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Janet and farnaz, you guys are both totally off base regarding Hillary and Obama. Obama has consistently been more liberal than Hillary.
That's why Hillary lost the primary. She tried to run as someone just as liberal as Obama but everyone knew she was lying. We've known the Clintons for a long time and they're a known quantity. They support lots of liberal causes behing the scenes and appoint lots of liberal judges and political appointees to run government agencies, but the big cetrpiece legislative accomplishments have always been moderate.
Obama on the other hand has an unblemished straight-ticket liberal voting record (such as it is). On very unpopular issues where the liberal position is very extreme, he has generally abstained or missed the vote in order to protect his future options.
The real question right now is whether or not he's lying when he says he now supports a number of popular centrist positions (like the spying bill and drilling for oil). He may turn around after the election and re-adopt liberal positions. Or he may govern from the center-left in the same manner as Bill Clinton did (and Hillary would have). Or he may support centrist positions publicly while undermining them behind the scenes.
Personally I think he'll do the latter.
Posted by: ZZim | July 11, 2008 4:05 PM
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Janet wrote: "The Democratic primary period was an embarrassment, fraught with yellow journalism, middle class touchy feely. We've reaped what we allowed to be sown. Obama is the moderate, not liberal, Democratic candidate."
I agree with the primary period being an embarassment, aren't they all? But I never saw Obama to be left of Hillary. I saw him as pragmatic, a realist, and someone smart enough to study a situation and get advice before making a decision, unlike Hillary who it seemed to me had a know-it-all demeanour. I agree Edwards was the most liberal. But I think what this shows is that the democratic party has swung to the middle. If it was far left, Edwards or Hillary was an obvious choice.
I mean, I can understand why liberal phylosophies made sense in the 60s and 70s, but today the landscape is very different. Obama is the first 21st century candidate I've seen during these primaries. Hillary, Edwards and McCain are 20th century candidates. And when people want something new, they look for something new, and that's Obama. But what he will need is a 21st century Congress. That may be a tall order.
Posted by: Fate | July 11, 2008 3:57 PM
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Farnaz:
You've got it right in how you divide up the past Democratic candidate liberal spectrum. I think people got so caught up in media hype, not to mention outright media lies that they failed to notice. Also, they would have had to spend the time going to the candidates' websites and beyond. Add to that, Obama writes and gives good speech.
Edwards is a white Christian and a man, so how could he be the most liberal? He was. Clinton wears pantsuits and doesn't make us feel warm and fuzzy all over so how could she be more liberal than Obama? She is.
The Democratic primary period was an embarrassment, fraught with yellow journalism, middle class touchy feely. We've reaped what we allowed to be sown. Obama is the moderate, not liberal, Democratic candidate.
Posted by: Janet | July 11, 2008 3:46 PM
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Bgone wrote: "Is it Bush or the ecologists that just blocked the building of a solar electric generating facility on public land?"
That would be the incompetent political appointees at the BLM, who have said they have some 125 requests and are "working hard" to get to them but will not accept any other solar requests for now, while nuclear plants, timber interests and oil projects are breezing through BLM. All projects on federal land must pass environmental studies, so why are solar projects being held up? BLM has not approved 1 solar project on federal land. Meanwhile, Ontario is about to build the largest solar farm in the world.
As for real estate, it seems you don't understand much about it. Start by reading up on REITs and see how they work and then maybe you'll begin to understand why a company like IBM does not want or need to become their own landlord.
Posted by: Fate | July 11, 2008 3:35 PM
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Thanks Pagan, I was looking for the phrase "talked down" and didn't see it. I should have also searched for "talking down". Lots of times people just sort of parrot what they read in the news. There was a guy in another article today called Al Sharpton or something like that, he used the same phrase.
As for trusting reporters, I still don't know why you think Fox News should be criticized for running the story. I also don't see why anyone should take this story as damaging to Obama - he didn't do anything.
I never mentioned "flip-flopping". Obama has a very liberal record (such as it is). He ran on that record in the primary and beat Hillary by being the most liberal candidate. Hillary pretended to be just as liberal, but she isn't and the Party voters were not fooled. Thats why she lost.
Obama isn't "flip-flopping" on the issued where he has changed his position unless he backs up the stated change in his position with real actions. So it's too soon to tell if he's flip-flopping or lying. My guess is he's lying, since he has no record of ever breaking ranks with liberal issues in the past. Zero. Hillary did have such a record and that's why she lost the primary.
One final point - Obama isn't an African-American in the sense that neither of his parents was an African-American and he wasn't raised in the African-American community. He's a guy with dark skin who adopted the African-American community as his own after he graduated from college and uses it as his political power base. So there's a little bit more resentment from the African-American community toward his criticism that a born-and-raised African-American like Bill Cosby doesn't generate.
Posted by: ZZim | July 11, 2008 3:32 PM
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I do agree that Obama has spoken down to black people, and I think it's completely unacceptable.
The most liberal potential candidate was Edwards. This isn't a matter of opinion, but of fact. One must in analyzing candidates divorce platform from matters of race and gender. To his right was Hillary Clinton. To her right on the vitally important issues of health care, immigration, and, to a lesser extent, education was and is Barack Obama.
That we will not have mandatory health care saddens me deeply. The consequences not only for desperate Americans but for all taxpayers of NOT having mandatory health care are enormous. Just one example: Many college students, thousands of them cannot attend college full time and succeed because they must also work full time and attend to other responsibilities. However, in order to qualify for reduced payment health care they must go full time to school. The result? Approximately a fifty-to-sixty per cent drop out rate. The cost to taxpayers? Countless millions.
Barack Obama was quoted by Paul Krugman as saying that mandating health care would be like requiring home ownership for homeless people.
Hillary Clinton's stand on immigration was on par with Edwards. It was sane, human, elegant , and Just.
Perhaps, in my view the most telling statement on Clinton's liberalism claim from the New York Post, a conservative tabloid, some would say "rag." In
"endorsing" Obama, the New York Post warned readers that Hillary Clinton's politics were to the left of Obama's, to the left of her husband's and that if elected, she would have the discipline to push her agenda through.
She would have had more than the discipline. She has an excellent record of bipartisanship in the Senate and she is as many have said "two fisted."
Clinton is a liberal, not a neo-liberal, like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. Neoliberalsim is a technical term as you know and refers to what we used to call left-wing conservatism.
Barack Obama was the candidate of the middle class and well educated.
His current positions scare the hell out of me, his Chicago Daily Machine enmeshments, not well addressed on this blog, his Carterite advisors, etc. give me pause.
I will vote for him, since given my politics, I have no choice. But I cannot understand why some people need to turn him into Jesus Christ Obama.
We are living in a dangerous world. It's best for us to be aware, alert to issues, etc., the obvious, not to get caught up in myth making.
Final thoughts: Of the three original Democratic frontrunners, none with respect to foreign policy matters, seemed to have many clues. Sen. McCain appears to have fewer.
Posted by: Farnaz | July 11, 2008 3:25 PM
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Fate,
Regarding McCain's 'bomb Iran' statement, apparently he was not aware that that was a real song. I remember hearing it on the radio during the Iran hostage crisis. Here is the 2008 version, a cartoon with song, starring the Shrub and Cheney:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3851426890212250833
Posted by: Arminius | July 11, 2008 3:22 PM
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Arminius wrote: "You did forget two other causes of the rise in the oil price: the weaker dollar, and, to a lesser extent, speculators."
The weaker dollar definitely yes but it doesn;t explain most of it.
Speculators yes, and they are the ones responding to the Iranian war threats. Look what happened whe Iran launched those missles. $10 in two days! If Bush wants to drop oil proces he could stop talking war, he could pull some less important ships out of the Gulf, he could do other things to reduce tensions. But he will not do that. Exxon is happy with high oil prices so Bush is happy too, not just unconcerned, actually happy.
Posted by: Fate | July 11, 2008 3:14 PM
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Fate:
I said, "if the election was held today Obama might win." There's always an element of risk. Will the hype last? Never has before. This time different?
All surveys aren't published. For some unknown reason "faith" based operations are being supported by tax money. Could be national security since the Godless communists might attack any moment. Then it could have to do with politics, politicians buying God votes.
I don't have a dog in this fight but I see you do. You probably don't drive much? Huh? Do you eat? Who's to blame? Is it Bush or the ecologists that just blocked the building of a solar electric generating facility on public land?
The ecologists must own that land. Huh? Only religions own real estate. The reverse is true? Anyone organization that owns real estate is a religion? IBM for example doesn't own any real estate. They like all other of us poor dumb bastards are only renters from the government. Looks like your house belongs to the ecologists since they own the country,, along with other religions. Those other religions can do things on their property without ecologists saying it's OK?
Posted by: BGone | July 11, 2008 3:10 PM
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Fate,
Good answer to BGone, who seems to be lost in neocon cloudcucooland. You did forget two other causes of the rise in the oil price: the weaker dollar, and, to a lesser extent, speculators.
BGone's non-documented statement about 85% of Americans blaming the ecologists made me laugh. If he really believes that, boy, have I got a deal for him in beach front property in Nebraska.
Posted by: Arminius | July 11, 2008 3:02 PM
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Bgone wrote: "Which candidate do you think has the experience? Which do you pick, Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama to answer the phone at 2AM?"
Either would be better than the guy who joked" "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran".
Bgone wrote: "How about the fellow who led men into battle and fought along side them?"
John Kerry?
Bgone wrote: "Or would you prefer the one experienced at working with south side Chicago welfare cases?"
That would be Obama, someone who knows what it is to pay a bill, pay a student loan, study hard and struggle to get ahead in life, unlike McCain, son of an Admiral, went to the Naval Academy (wonder how he got in) and was 3rd to last in his graduating class, and married to an heiress after dumping his wife after a disfiguring car accident.
Bgone wrote: "Who gets the God vote the one that went to church and prayed for peace or the one that went to war and fought the enemies of the nation?"
In 2004 it was the one who avoided going to war over the one who went to war and fought the enemies of this nation. You make little sense here unless wearing a flightsuit counts.
Bgone wrote: "Nothing's ever simple yet everything is as simple as a tank of gas. Filling your tank getting a little complicated is it? Bubba thinks so and just thinking about it makes his head hurt."
The electorate always punishes the party in power for bad economic times. "Its the economy, stupid". Expect large republican losses this fall, and I mean large.
Posted by: Fate | July 11, 2008 3:01 PM
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According to the Judicial Watch complaints, Senator Obama (D-Illinois) received a home loan of $1.32 million from Northern Trust at a rate of 5.625 percent -- although two different surveys indicated that the average going rate that day was around 6 percent.
Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton contends that Obama got a special below market "super super jumbo" loan because he was a United States senator. "...[W]e filed ethics complaints with the Senate Ethics Committee concerning the receipt potentially of an illegal gift," he said. "The other issue is that it may be an illegal campaign contribution by a corporation in that it is a substantial financial gift to Barack Obama of at least $125,000," suggests Fitton.
Fitton also filed the complaint with the Federal Election Commission, and says there is another shady aspect to this mortgage deal. He says Obama's real estate dealings are also linked with Tony Rezko, a convicted felon, which Fitton contends raises a "whole host of questions" about Obama's relationship with the man.
Posted by: Heads Up | July 11, 2008 2:56 PM
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BGone wrote: "Without the surveys changing radically Obama doesn't stand a chance unless he changes his position, radically."
Maybe you missed this poll:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-poll25-2008jun25,0,5763707.story
showing Obama beating McCain by 12% if the election were held today?
BGone wrote: "Over 85% of Americans blame ecologists for the price of gasoline which is the number one political issue, (that's yet to be mentioned)."
Right, because no one is mentioning it. If it were simply an issue of supply and demand you would expect a price rise to be accompanied by a drop in supply. Has that happened? Have you had a hard time finding gasoline? Its as plentiful today as when it was $2/gal. And at that time we had all the environmental regulations we have today, maybe more since Bush has dismantled as many as he could. Oil is being delivered. Exxon is not complaining it cannot get oil to refine. Gas stations are not complaining they cannot get deliveries. Your argument is based on a totally false premise probably generated by the FUD department of the RNC.
BGone wrote: "America is running on empty. Any position against drilling will cost the position taker votes."
America's gas stations are full. My local gas station even dropped prices because people are not buying as much gasoline as he expected and ordered. He told me he had to tell his supplier not to ship as much next month due to the drop in the demand. If you want to know what is raising oil prices, look at the photos of Iranian missles, listen to Israel as it talks up a preemptive attack on Iran, listen to Iran's president promising to shut down the strait of Hormuz, look at rebels in Nigeria, and look at president Bush talking about war with Iran.
Fankly, I was wondering what global tension would be artificially created to stop the sharp drop in oil prices last week. Then the Iranian missles went flying. Expect Iran to do something else if prices drop again. Its in their interests to keep tensions high.
As for environmentalists, what a laugh. Oil companies have oil wells they refuse to pump, even at today's prices, and they have oil leases they will not explore or even sublet. We could pump more oil if we wanted to, but there is no need to. There is enough oil in the market that pumping more would drop prices as an oil glut is produced. So your argument is based on a false premise, that there is not enough oil. Its also not based on reality. Just where did you get that 85% figure anyway? Faux News?
Posted by: Fate | July 11, 2008 2:27 PM
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"ZZim:
"Paganplace, could you show me where on this page someone (besides you) uses the phrase "talked down to"? I don't see it anywhere."
OK: How about the following?
"Kwame: (And then right below, 'Tanika.')"
"Nobody's talking about not voting for him, but, personally, I don't like anybody talking down to me be black, biracial, or white. Jesse spoke the truth. Deal with it."
As for all this, Zzim:
"As for trusiting Fox News - politicians should never trust any reporter." (snip)
"I'm sure Fox is biased against Jesse Jackson, but what reporter could possibly sit that story? " (further snip) would you expect them to sit on it? Of course not. "
That's kinda not the point, as much as Fox is always having little 'accidents' like that. *Rev. Jackson,* pretty famous for gaffes, shouldn't have expected that mike was off, even if they indicated it was.
Obama is *still* the candidate with the best liberal credentials we've had. That doesn't mean it's 'flip-flopping' for what he's always been saying to not be in lockstep with certain liberal notions. He's a 'faith-based' *activist,* himself, and he's run on a platform of trying to bring the country together over common ground.
It seems what Jackson was reacting to was something Obama said about living up to obligations to kids, a point on which the good Reverend seems to have fallen short, himself, rather publicly, with illegitimate kids and all.. Maybe it's not on behalf of 'talked down to black people' he was all cheesed off. Maybe it's in behalf of Reverend Jesse Jackson.
Posted by: Paganplace | July 11, 2008 1:43 PM
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Without the surveys changing radically Obama doesn't stand a chance unless he changes his position, radically. Over 85% of Americans blame ecologists for the price of gasoline which is the number one political issue, (that's yet to be mentioned). America is running on empty. Any position against drilling will cost the position taker votes.
McCain doesn't need to do anything. He gets the drill drill drill candidacy automatically. Obama needs to contest him there not who can get the most black civil rights leaches to back him. The election is not for McCain to win but rather Obama to lose. Looks to me like Obama is working hard on doing just that.
Great economic upheaval is always accompanied by a change in religion. The religion that is at ground zero is Ecologistism. All Obama does in any church is make the mental connection between traditional religions and Ecologistism. Can't pin the ecological tail on McCain's elephant. Obama proudly claims he already has the Ecologistism tail, pinning it to his jackass not necessary.
If the election was held today Obama might win handily. The same people who say gas is their number one concern say they will vote for him. The election is not being held today. It's just a matter of educating the public.
Not to bring up anything worrisome but which candidate do you think sets the best with those who fear war in the immediate future? Nuclear or worse war. Which candidate do you think has the experience? Which do you pick, Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama to answer the phone at 2AM?
How about the fellow who led men into battle and fought along side them? Or would you prefer the one experienced at working with south side Chicago welfare cases? Now that last one makes big splashes at black churches and other black gatherings so that needs to be taken into consideration. You can safely bet Bubba is thinking about it.
"All Gods are Gods of War" is the title of a book. Who gets the God vote the one that went to church and prayed for peace or the one that went to war and fought the enemies of the nation? Nothing's ever simple yet everything is as simple as a tank of gas. Filling your tank getting a little complicated is it? Bubba thinks so and just thinking about it makes his head hurt.
Posted by: BGone | July 11, 2008 1:40 PM
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Paganplace, could you show me where on this page someone (besides you) uses the phrase "talked down to"? I don't see it anywhere.
As for trusiting Fox News - politicians should never trust any reporter. Remember, Obama's "bitter" remarks were reported by a pro-Obama blogger. No reporter is going to sit on a great story like that, no matter what their ideological bias is.
I'm sure Fox is biased against Jesse Jackson, but what reporter could possibly sit that story? A former Democratic Party presidential candidate said he is angry enough to castrate the current Party nominee. That's news, it's gona be reported. If the NY Times had taped a former Republican fringe candidate (like Buchanan) saying he wanted to castrate McCain, would you expect them to sit on it? Of course not.
Don't be silly.
PS - Personally I don't think anyone should be telling folks they want to castrate Obama. I can understand a traditional toe-the-line liberal like Jackson being upset about the positions Obama has been supporting recently (or at least pretending to until after the election). But there are better ways to express that.
Obama ran against Hillary as the more liberal candidate. And he had the spotless voting record to back it up. The Party picked him. Now he's pretending to be Hillary and many Party members are angry because they are concerned that he might not be lying about the policies he is supporting (or at least pretending to). Personally I think he's lying, but he's really good at it so older supporters like Jackson might get confused.
Posted by: ZZim | July 11, 2008 1:25 PM
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The more people like Jackson, Clinton, and the rest of the old guard get frustrated with Obama, the more I like the man.
Jackson seems frustrated that his dream of a black president is not submitting to him. I respect Jackson and the decades of civil rights work he has done, some of it along side MLK, but the times have changed and it is time for new leaders to come forward. Jackson helped free blacks from discrimination and poverty. Its time he stopped acting as though that goal was never reached.
And Clinton seems to think he is the leader of the democratic party. He may have been, but no longer. The democrats are going through a small revolution with Obama's popularity threatening the old guard. This is a good thing in my opnion and one that is still playing itself out. Such bumps are to be expected as politicians who once wielded power are ignored or shoved aside.
So, all in all, nothing much here but small rumblings before the real shaking begins next January as Obama takes control of our government with a democratic Congess and becomes the new leader of the democratic party, with all the change that new leadership will bring. And Jackson and Bill Clinton will have to get used to not being on top anymore.
You see, what is happening in the democratic party is that Obama has captured the leadership by going directly to the people. He has bypassed the old guard. He has not had to kiss up to the likes of Clinton or Jackson for favor. This is a new thing people, a new type of leader. It is I believe why Obama seems much more appealing than McCain, who is chasing every republican old guard leader in his party for favors, contradicting his own stated positions to make some old guard member happy, and even asking Bush to campaign for him. Obama's appeal is not imaginary, it is real, and it is based on bypassing the old guard. We can only hope he turns out to be the leader America needs to repair the damage the republicans inflicted on America's body and soul these past eight years.
Posted by: Fate | July 11, 2008 12:35 PM
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Hey, anyone notice that all of a sudden we're seeing, of a sudden a whole bunch of posts under different 'black sounding' names with the same talking points repeated... in the exact same words?
Seems someone would like to make it appear there's a huge groundswell of black folks retroactively all that offended at Senator Obama. We've been talking about this subject for at least a couple weeks now, and no one mentioned having felt 'talked down to,' before, did they?
The only person I'd like to see talked down to is Reverend Jackson, who maybe was thinking, ... Something like:
This. Is. What. Happens. When. You. Trust. Fox. News.
And, Prof. Berlinerblau, I'm still not seeing all these 'flip flops' and 'moves to the right' Obama's supposed to be making... I think the media ought to take a break from that phrase, anyway, it seems to be losing its meaning. Now it's a 'flip flop' when someone doesn't act like the media's previous *characterization of them.*
And, not, so much, say McCain's formerly-principled stand on torture being reversed and all the rest of that.
Posted by: Paganplace | July 11, 2008 12:02 PM
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Dear ANONYMOUS:
You can't take the truth.
Posted by: BGone | July 11, 2008 11:52 AM
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Jacques!!!!!
One must be more sure of what one is talking about ---> "That one must refrain from expressing a desire to castrate a presidential candidate.."
"The nuts" is the pat, can't be beat hand in poker or position otherwise. It's as American as Cadillac cars and movie stars. Give it another try. Jackson wasn't talking about Obama's sperm bank but rather his position as a candidate. Jackson perceives Obama as having "the nuts" meaning he can't lose, been dealt the winning cards that belongs to him, Jackson.
Jackson can't cut his nuts off with black voters but he can with white ones and in particular older white women by simply noticing that Obama is black and with him. Jackson is the rally around civil rights leader -get yourself a lawyer and sue Denny's for discriminating -tax and spend on welfare. Will white Bubba be willing to set in the back of the bus on his way to the black church where Dr Jackson is preaching or will he throw Obama under the bus? Miss Bubba votes too you know.
Is Obama the "black" candidate? That's the opposite of "the nuts." It's the can't win hand. Unless of course the race card is the winning, "the nuts" can't be beat card in presidential politics. Jackson is clearly saying he'll make Obama the black candidate or at least sees him that way. Is a vote for Obama a vote for Jackson, Jeremiah Wrong or Malcom X?
We talking about the God vote or the race vote here? The GOP dumped the evangelicals. Taking them in can be hazardous to one's political future. Don't believe me then ask Obama. If not now then the first Wednesday come November.
Posted by: BGone | July 11, 2008 11:45 AM
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First of all, Obama has been entirely consistent in his remarks about the black family and responsibility. He included this theme in his 2004 Democratic Convention keynote speech. Addressing the need for some black fathers to be more responsible is also consistent with Obama's message of hope - i.e. certain things are within the control of individuals. We do not have to sit around waiting for social and economic policy changes from Washington to bring about change. (This attitude is NOT meant to let government "off the hook".)
Second, I think that Jesse Jackson's concern about Obama's remarks is understandable, given the fact that so many white people will use such criticism within the black community to justify NOT spending money on social programs. Jackson definitely wants to see Obama elected; that's why his remarks were not meant to be public.
Instead of harping on Jackson's gaff and possible disagreements within the black community, we should all focus on what government needs to do to help strengthen the black community - through education reform, improved housing and health care, job training, etc. - to help individuals act more responsibly and ministers and other community workers carry on their message of hope.
Posted by: Louise | July 11, 2008 11:12 AM
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Doesn't Jackson's comment qualify as "hate speech?" I knew Jackson had a twisted, hate-filled, angry soul, but I never thought he would prove it in such a public way.
Posted by: William E. Jones | July 11, 2008 10:38 AM
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Jeff,
"Those of us in the U.S. who value freedom and human rights will fight to our last breath to prevent you from imposing your religion on the rest of us."
---> But in your world, "freedom and human rights" apparently do not apply to unborn children? Isn't that being just a bit hypocritical?
Posted by: Brambleton | July 11, 2008 10:38 AM
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What is all this talk about "flip-flopping"? Is a candidate not allowed to amend his position for the betterment of his country? If anything I'm tired of the hard-headed stalwarts in our government who dig their heels in and refuse to adapt to changing times and evolving knowledge. Obama promised to get our troops out of Iraq on a timetable. If he goes to Iraq in the next few days, talks with generals there, and changes his plan, I won't consider that flip-flopping. I'll see that as a sign of a man whose mind isn't an iron trap--who can adapt to changing information and isn't afraid to admit when he's wrong. Such a man is one who can adapt to the malleable needs of his country. Having even one such man in office would be a huge change in politics, as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by: Jo | July 11, 2008 10:36 AM
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To John Belville: Politics as usual is not a cliche. It is what Obama claims he wants to get away from as an agent of "change." But, his actions only show that he's no different than any other politician. To me, he's a fraud. I don't want him to tell me that he's different when he's really not. It's all image and very little substance.
And, why can't Obama be criticized like any other candidate? What's wrong with that? People act like Obama can't be touched or criticized. That's dangerous for our democracy.
Posted by: Dwayne Smith | July 11, 2008 10:23 AM
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Here we go again, another race card player. Obama isn't Black enough, a white man's lacky, etc., etc. I'm really tired of Jackson and other Black so-called religious leaders climbing into the political arena. Obama is just what this country needs. Change? I certainly hope so. Politics as usual is such a cliche. I am personally turned off by Jesse and the others who put Senator Obama down, aren't you?
Posted by: John Belville | July 11, 2008 10:14 AM
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Maybe his "base" should remember that they alone cannot elect a President. They should check the size of their pants before they open their mouths so wide.
Posted by: mike foster | July 11, 2008 10:07 AM
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And, that reason is why as an African American, I will NOT vote for Obama in November. He CLAIMS to be an agent of "change" yet he is constantly changing his position to "find his niche" or should I say to pander to whatever constituency to which he is speaking. That's NOT change. It's the same old politics as usual.
Mark my words...if Obama is elected president, the American electorate, who has fallen in love with the IDEA of having a black president, will regret voting with their hearts instead of their minds.
Posted by: Dwayne Smith | July 11, 2008 10:01 AM
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I'm not sure "gaining their trust" would have sufficed for the enormouse "sprint to the center" Obama had to do. He has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. To sprint to the middle, he almost has to repudiate the things he said in the primaries. He may have transcended racial politics, but much of his base hasn't. It is now much easier to see the insight Bill Clinton had when he commented during the South Carolina primary that Jesse Jackson had carried the state. That is where many of the voters' hearts are. Jesse Jackson's off-camera comment illustrates that pretty clearly. But it is much easier to blast Bill Clinton for commenting on the obvious difference between Obama and Jackson, than to blast Obama for illustrating it.
Posted by: CB1231 | July 11, 2008 9:50 AM
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Crabs in a bushel basket. Jesse is another example of what WEB DuBois was always talking about.
Posted by: Ed | July 11, 2008 9:47 AM
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It's important to point out that Obama has had to move to the center in the general election; whereas, McCain had to move to the right in the primaries.
The fact that Obama's move to the center is so dishonest and insincere should cause people to seriously reconsider Obama's initial appeal, which was that of a uniter. Obama as President would divide the country from the left in the same way that Bush has divided it from the right.
McCain is the real uniter in this race, and he is change we can believe in!
Posted by: Anonymous | July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
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Wise Owl said: "How he [Obama] can say he is a christian is a wonderment to me. He professes to have no problem with lifting the ban on gay and lesbian marriage which since Moses, the bible has given thumbs down. He believes in abortion in case his girls make a mistake....most Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, Assembly of Gods, do not believe in abortion."
---------------------------------------------
Wise Owl: In the U.S. we have a document called the Constitution that is the supreme law of the land. The Constitution has something called the first amendment, which is part of the Bill of Rights, underlining the supremacy of law in our country that is not set by religion. Your religious views differ from other people's religious views. The first amendment is in the Bill of Rights to prevent citizens from imposing their religious beliefs on others through law. This is fundamental to human rights, as seen by the United Nations and all of the treaties and declarations of human rights, and the Constitutions of all of the free world. If you want to impose your religious beliefs on others, I suggest moving to a country where that is the accepted norm- like Iran, Saudi Arabia or perhaps the realm of the Taliban. Those of us in the U.S. who value freedom and human rights will fight to our last breath to prevent you from imposing your religion on the rest of us.
Posted by: Jeff | July 11, 2008 8:25 AM
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Jackson with his overly gleeful accomplice Fox News has finally revealed what a low class, crude racist he is. One more ignorant, egotistical Black reverend Obama needs to distance himself from.
Posted by: Roy | July 11, 2008 8:14 AM
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Obama wants to win the election, so he will do anything, everything irrespective of right or wrong, flip-flopp, policy changes. The young voters may not understand the political game, but the "young" Obama is an expert on it.
Question is: Will he be a good president for the super power? Could he be controlled and manged by his "handlers"? Another Jimmy C?
Posted by: Madayil Nair | July 11, 2008 8:07 AM
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Jackson's comments might play well in Hymietown, but they don't stir me.
Posted by: geneva pundit | July 11, 2008 7:38 AM
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Jackson's whisper tells me very little about Barak Obama, but a good deal about Jessie Jackson.
I recall a statement Jackson made in an interview several years ago, citing that while walking down a street one night, a group of youths seemed to following him. He said the potential for a mugging caused him some anxiety, but - while he hated to admit it - he was relieved when he turned and noticed the kids were all White: hence, less likely, he implied, to assault him. His comment about that incident, like Obama's assertion Blacks need to be more responsible to/about family, are solidly grounded in statistics. Nonetheless, Jackson's statement was unfortunate and most disappointing.
Bob: I'm White, older, comforted, and in complete agreement with your comments. Thank you for having taken the time to make express them so eloquently.
Posted by: J. Shackford | July 11, 2008 7:26 AM
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I think Mr. Berlinerblau you and your media people need to STOP subjecting all black people as thinking the same. There are millions of us who wish some of our people will step up to the plate. Obama has not said anything that is not said by us as a race if we are honest. Get this Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and any one else white people like to say is a leader of the black community does NOT speak for all black people just as white people have different opinions we as blacks do as well. I agreed with what he said he said it to our face. Cut the crap and move off of this story cause there is none.
Posted by: PJ | July 11, 2008 7:06 AM
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I think Mr. Berlinerblau you and your media people need to STOP subjecting all black people as thinking the same. There are millions of us who wish some of our people will step up to the plate. Obama has not said anything that is not said by us as a race if we are honest. Get this Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and any one else white people like to say is a leader of the black community does NOT speak for all black people just as white people have different opinions we as blacks do as well. I agreed with what he said he said it to our face. Cut the crap and move off of this story cause there is none.
Posted by: PJ | July 11, 2008 7:05 AM
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I a no Obama supporter however, Jessie Jackson is just an idiot who will get away with it one more time. What would have happened if Imus had said that .... oh, he already said something less offinseve and was taken off the air for 6 months.
Nothing will happen to Jackson. Why? Because he is a liberal activist.
Posted by: Mark Wright | July 11, 2008 6:56 AM
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Jessie Jackson must have been PAID to create controversy against Obama. EVEN JESSIE JACKSON ISN'T THAT STUPID. IF HE DIDN'T KNOW THE MICROPHONE WAS "ON" THEN WHY WAS HE WHISPERING ?????
I am a white male over 65 who has voted Republican all my life and I believe that Barack Obama just might be the savior of our Democracy, it certainly is NOT a REPUBLICAN. Doomsday is near. Wake up America.
Posted by: gordon | July 11, 2008 6:43 AM
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Jessie Jackson must have been PAID to create controversy against Obama. EVEN JESSIE JACKSON ISN'T THAT STUPID. IF HE DIDN'T KNOW THE MICROPHONE WAS "ON" THEN WHY WAS HE WHISPERING ?????
I am a white male over 65 who has voted Republican all my life and I believe that Barack Obama just might be the savior of our Democracy, it certainly is NOT a REPUBLICAN. Doomsday is near. Wake up America.
Posted by: gordon | July 11, 2008 6:32 AM
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First, Michelle Obama called her husband pathetic on TV. Then Bill Clinton told Obama to come and kiss his @ss. Now, Rev. Jesse Jackson said he wants to cut Obama''s nuts off.
Once you really get to know Obama, you really can''t help but hate the man.
Posted by: janephil | July 11, 2008 5:56 AM
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Jacques, I may disagree with you sometimes, but you have great hair. Love, Teddy
Posted by: Teddy Pedersen | July 11, 2008 4:54 AM
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Secularists?? Is this what passes for academic rigor at Georgetown these days? It's almost (but not quite) as informative as 'Christian.'
Castration? Curious choice of metaphors. What exactly is it supposed to mean? Obama? His candidacy?
Yes Obama has moved to the center. But was it necessary? Was it necessary for McCain to abandon his principles and embrace the golden neocon calf? The only observable religion in this campaign--and that goes for the megachurch bundlers as well--has to do with money. Jesse Jackson, intentionally or no, didn't follow the script, and for that the Professor Berlinerblaus of the Blogosphere will mete out whatever incremental discipline they can muster to ensure that non-issues and insincerity continue to fan the flames of corporate news and American-style democracy.
Posted by: omartraore | July 11, 2008 3:51 AM
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"Youngj1:
Look from my vantage point I see a "Reverend" who is exactly the type of guy that Senator Obama was speaking about in his Father's Day address. He casually had sex outside of his marriage and fathered a child that he did not claim until ordered to by the courts. Maybe the only castration that should be taking place here should be in the Jackson family.
Maybe the Senator struck a nerve?"
I think Jesse Jackson's nerves are stronger than that. I think the man himself is stronger than biracial Barack. Jackson didn't have no Chicago Daily Machine mama carrying him. Never heard Jackson talking about people hurting his feelings as Obama did about that big bad mama, Hillary Clinton. I think Jesse Jackson spoke words people with money don't want to hear. Maybe they ought to. Black folks been known to lose it from time to time. Whites, too, from what I hear. If enough people lose it Barack might lose it, too, if you know what I mean.
Maybe Barack ought to spend more time talking to poor whites, white mothers without fathers living without indoor plumbing and such. Haven't heard too much about that.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 11, 2008 3:22 AM
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Look from my vantage point I see a "Reverend" who is exactly the type of guy that Senator Obama was speaking about in his Father's Day address. He casually had sex outside of his marriage and fathered a child that he did not claim until ordered to by the courts. Maybe the only castration that should be taking place here should be in the Jackson family.
Maybe the Senator struck a nerve?
Posted by: Youngj1 | July 11, 2008 3:08 AM
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He supports the death penalty. He doesn't support gun control. He supports government eavesdropping. He supports keeping troops in Iraq. A couple more moves like that and this nominal Democrat will wonder why his possible supreme Court nominations would be better than McCain's.
Posted by: Russell | July 11, 2008 2:26 AM
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He supports the death penalty. He doesn't support gun control. He supports government eavesdropping. He supports keeping troops in Iraq. A couple more moves like that and this nominal Democrat will wonder why his possible supreme Court nominations would be better than McCain's.
Posted by: Russell | July 11, 2008 2:26 AM
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Nobody's talking about not voting for him, but, personally, I don't like anybody talking down to me be black, biracial, or white. Jesse spoke the truth. Deal with it.
Tanika speaks the truth and so does Mr. Mitchell.
Pure and simple, Obama can't be making middle class people, white OR black, feel good about themselves at the expense of black people or white people who don't have it as good. Remember those white people? The ones he called bitter? I remember. That's one of the reasons this black dude supported Clinton.
Now, we don't have a choice, but coming down on Jackson for telling the truth about Obama is sending Obama the wrong message. Remember who his white constituency is: the upper middle class. That's upper middle class whites.
Posted by: Kwame | July 11, 2008 1:26 AM
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Jesse Jackson sure is no saint and neither is Barack Obama. Jesse paid dues for black people pure and simple. Obama is a politician. Nobody's talking about not voting for him, but, personally, I don't like anybody talking down to me be black, biracial, or white. Jesse spoke the truth. Deal with it.
Posted by: Tanika Forbes | July 11, 2008 1:12 AM
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Ken
Standing up for poor people? How about MILKING the problems of poor people to support a lifestyle that's strictly upper crust. His house in D.C.'s fashionable LeDroit Park is worth well over a million. I hear the Chicago digs ain't half bad either. The man's a poverty pimp, pure and simple
Is he now? So, now, Ken, you tell me, is he all wound up, upside down, and inside out the pants of the Chicago Daily Machine? And who says he's a poverty pimp? You know all his sources of income all these years?
And like I said to Mark, were you down South with him and me and others like us with crackers with guns on both side of you, and the police with them?
You walk to Washington Ken? Because I don't recall seeing you there? You walking down in Harlem thirty-five years ago because I don't remember.
You want to help able bodied black men, Ken, then you come do what I do. You watch who's not hiring whom and why. And then you tell that young man not to give up. You tell the government to stop sending young black men out for jobs that they know immigrants already have and won't get fired from, which is what I was told to do every day at the Dept. of Labor job every day.
And you know who I called? Yeah, that old dog Jesse. He sent some folks to inquire. But this is one office, and the Dept. of Labor is doing it all over the US.
NOw let me tell you Ken. You want young black men out working? Well maybe you ought to tell the police to arrest the drug deals out of black neighborhoods before the whites come in to gentrify.
You want young black men working? You look at the schools they go to? You going to do something about them?
And you going to go into the projects while the shootings going on and not after somebody's dead?
Maybe that young black man's sister?
Jesse's done some things Ken. You haven't. Come back and talk to us when you've done something.
Posted by: Donald Mitchell | July 11, 2008 1:05 AM
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This blog post ... is just idiotic.
1) The "sprint to the center" is hogwash. The guy's a centrist. He's always been a centrist. It's only his stance on the war that gives even the faintest impression that he's anything else.
2) We are talking about Jesse Jackson here. Chief opportunist of the civil rights movement--the man who waved the shirt wet with Martin Luther King's blood all the way to the bank. Standing up for poor people? How about MILKING the problems of poor people to support a lifestyle that's strictly upper crust. His house in D.C.'s fashionable LeDroit Park is worth well over a million. I hear the Chicago digs ain't half bad either. The man's a poverty pimp, pure and simple
3) I chaired the board of a housing authority for four years, and I can tell you that what was wrong with the able-bodied young adults living in those neighborhoods was not something that a government check or a government handout could fix. What they needed most of all was pride--and pride is developed by doing the right thing, and doing for self. The elderly, the disabled, the very young, the most vulnerable among us all need to be protected--no argument there. But Obama's not talking about them--he's asking healthy able-bodied adults to show up for their lives and for their kids lives. An attack on the base? That's absurd. Racism? That's crazy talk. What's racist is the soft bigotry of low expectations that says people can't do any better unless some governmental Big Brother takes care of them.
4) Question to Berlinerbauer. So Obama's not pure enough for you ... are you suggesting we all run out and vote for McCain? Cause he's going to do a lot for poor people--him and Phil Gramm and the rest of the crew who say the recession is all in our heads.
Posted by: Ken | July 11, 2008 12:53 AM
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"I a no Obama supporter however, Jessie Jackson is just an idiot who will get away with it one more time. What would have happened if Imus had said that .... oh, he already said something less offinseve and was taken off the air for 6 months.
Nothing will happen to Jackson. Why? Because he is a liberal activist."
How does what Imus said compare to what Jackson said? Did Imus grow up black in the segregated south? What is Imus's record in the civil rights movement? Was Imus a kid marching in cracker country? Preaching in black churches about drugs? Talking to white politicians about getting the drugs out of the black community? Talking to Congress when the government was running drugs in Harlem (Iran contra)? Did Imus hold Martin while Martin was bleeding to death? I'll say what others have said, no way is Jackson a saint, no way.
I knew Jesse back in the day. Did you? I reread your post, Mark, and I ask my sixty-six year old self, Is Jesse an idiot? Nope. What about Mark?
Posted by: Donald Mitchell | July 11, 2008 12:27 AM
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I a no Obama supporter however, Jessie Jackson is just an idiot who will get away with it one more time. What would have happened if Imus had said that .... oh, he already said something less offinseve and was taken off the air for 6 months.
Nothing will happen to Jackson. Why? Because he is a liberal activist.
Posted by: Mark Wright | July 11, 2008 12:10 AM
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Jesse Jackson has been around politics for a very long time. I am certain there are other issues behind his remarks that he will never disclose; i.e. how the Obama Camp falsely painted the Clintons, who have been long-time supporters of issues of concern to people like Jackson, as racists in order to gain the black vote. And now, Obama is using false-negative-stereotypes of black people to gain the "typical-white-person" vote. It is so easy to see ... if we just open our eyes to it ... and I don't think Jesse Jackson likes it. It is subtle divisive politics at its ugliest ... so voters beware!
Posted by: Cassandra Washington | July 10, 2008 11:52 PM
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Jesse Jackson has been around politics for a very long time. I am certain their are other issues behind his remarks that he will never disclose; i.e. how the Obama Camp falsely painted the Clintons, who have been long-time supporters of issues of concern to people like Jackson, as racists in order to gain the black vote. And now, Obama is using false-negative-stereotypes of black people to gain the "typical-white-person" vote. It is so easy to see ... if we just open our eyes to it ... and I don't think Jesse Jackson likes it. It is subtle divisive politics at its ugliest ... so voters beware!
Posted by: Cassandra Washington | July 10, 2008 11:50 PM
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Greg:
"You must remember, (and yes this is a blanket statement) black people are very forgiving, otherwise there would be a lot more dead white folks around."
That is a stupid thing to say. What if Indians started talking? What if Jewish people started talking like that? You're not the only one. And just who are you, at 41? Were you out there on the streets with Jesse with crackers threatening to kill you and you knowing they just might do it? Where were you when Martin was killed? Because Jesse was there right there, Greg with Martin bleeding on him.
Jesse is no saint, that's for sure. But you'd still be going in the back door of white stores if it weren't for Jesse and others like him and don't you forget it.
He talked about responsibility for black people plenty, but he never did talk down to any of us. There's a difference between telling folks they have to take responsibility and talking down to them.
Posted by: Paulette | July 10, 2008 11:28 PM
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Dear Jacques,
So Barack is getting a lot of press lately – some good while others, not so good. One of the biggest charges is that of flip flopper. In fact, you, along with lots of other people in the media have spoken about "diving to center".
Here’s what’s happening and he's being criticized for it; he’s doing exactly what he said he would do.
When I saw his vote on the new FISA authorization, I was ready to write him a letter and to stop sending money. But then I thought about it and by George, he’s doing what he promised.
Most of the things Obama’s taken heat for saying are for doing exactly what he promised -- to find a practical, common ground on controversial issues.
He’s criticized by the left for wanting to give more federal money to religious groups that run social programs, but only if the services they offer are secular. Okay, I think the government should remain far removed from religion. But, these kinds of programs are important to a lot of people so why not fix Bush's original plan and "find common ground"?
People can have guns for hunting and protection, but we should crack down on unscrupulous gun sellers. Putting some restrictions on the government’s ability to wiretap is better than nothing, even though he would rather have gone further.
All of these are not veering to the center but are attempts at finding practical, common sense, middle ground to very difficult issues. Do I like the compromises? No, I’d rather have my way all the time. But do I agree that part of a pie is better than none? Absolutely.
Now to be fair, Obama did make it sound as if getting rid of the “old politics” involved driving out the oil and pharmaceutical lobbyists rather than splitting the difference on federal wiretapping legislation. But if you look at the political fights he’s picked throughout his political career, the main theme is not about ideology. It’s a willingness to see both sides and forge a compromise.
To some people, especially those that love the Rovian style of politics, it’s all about finding differences not commonality.
To me, although I missed it in the beginning, it’s a breadth of fresh air. It’s nice to want to work with the other side. So, as you think about writing a scathing article on Obama for moving too far from one side or the other remember, he's doing what he said he would.
Posted by: Former Christian | July 10, 2008 11:28 PM
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BGONE
be gone
Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2008 11:22 PM
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I am a 41 year old black male. What Barack says to black congregations is what needs to be said more often in our community. The media is placing too much importance on Jackson's remarks and not enough on the importance of Barack's very deep support in the black community. You must remember, (and yes this is a blanket statement) black people are very forgiving, otherwise there would be a lot more dead white folks around. We are even more forgiving of our own, especially when we think they are being mistreated by other ethnic groups.
Jackson is entitled to his opinion but do you really think he speaks for the whole? He doesn't even speak for his family--hence his own son's condemnation. Jackson has his own issues to work on. Perhaps Obama's message of taking personal responsibility for one's actions hit a little too close to home for the old womanizing civil rights leader...on Faux(sic) News no less.
You guys just don't get it. You want black folks to love Barack even more, just keep giving him bad press. We'll circle the wagons. We've done it before for less worthy people with much less going for them (see OJ, Marion Barry, Jesse Jackoson...hell..even Michael Jackson). On top of all of this Barack would not be possible had not Jesse, Al or Shirley tried it first.
Finally, its pretty funny how the main stream media dismiss Jackson and Sharpton as opportunists when they speak up in favor of the Jenna 6 or against racist remarks by Imus, or the mistreatment of Katrina victims. Then the same folks hold them up as prophets when they speak out against another black man. Hmmmnnn...Interesting...game always recognizes game.
Posted by: Greg | July 10, 2008 11:06 PM
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But voting for McCain is suicide! Just like Jesse Jackson Sr., just because we disagree with Obama (and I disagree with Jesse a lot as well) on this should not be misconstrued as lessening our support for Obama, because the Republicans would be laughable if they weren't so dangerous!
Posted by: RCD | July 10, 2008 10:34 PM
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Has anyone noticed that the two groups of people who occupy the lowest rungs of American society are the two groups who did not willfully emigrate to America.
Native Americans have seen their proud civilization decimated and their lands seized, and as a people they are mired in alcoholism, drugs, violence, gambling and broken families.
Blacks were brought here forced to work for 400 years and then suffered nearly a century of official second-class citizenship, enshrined in the Constitution as 3/5s of a man in the land where all men are created equal. And now as we have men and women who were born during segregation, still living and their children and grandchildren mired in alcoholism, drugs, violence, gambling and broken families.
Maybe culturally what is success and normal for those who CHOSE to leave everything they knew to come to this country, self-selected themselves to do what would be necessary to be successful in America.
Maybe those who fill our jails or our welfare rolls or corners are those who would have never CHOSE to come to America, and thus they are simply rebelling against their lack of self-determination by accepting the most nihilistic, anti-social, and self-destructive behavior as a way of life.
Maybe persuasion, love and understanding is what is necessary to break the cycle of parent-less young people making bad decisions which limit their opportunities by the time they are old enough to realize what is truly important, is a better solution than stricter sentences and tough love in the form of speeches about responsibility and disciple.
Posted by: Sinned Noir | July 10, 2008 10:22 PM
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Maybe Jesse was just cranky because he hadn't fathered a child out of wedlock, preferably one that wasn't his wife's. Some track record he has. No class act.
Posted by: ErrinF | July 10, 2008 9:50 PM
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Although I like Jesse Jackson, I do not like Obama. Yes, he did talk down to black people. You can't change nature. If they want to change they will. Obama likes to play God. He has no experience and has no shame because he does not have it.
How he can say he is a christian is a wonderment to me. He professes to have no problem with lifting the ban on gay and lesbian marriage which since Moses, the bible has given thumbs down. He believes in abortion in case his girls make a mistake....most Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, Assembly of Gods, do not believe in abortion.
Why is he so hung up on "Hollywood? Let's face it, he thinks he is a God!
Posted by: WISE OWL | July 10, 2008 9:41 PM
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Although I like Jesse Jackson, I do not like Obama. Yes, he did talk down to black people. You can't change nature. If they want to change they will. Obama likes to play God. He has no experience and has no shame because he does not have it.
How he can say he is a christian is a wonderment to me. He professes to have no problem with lifting the ban on gay and lesbian marriage which since Moses, the bible has given thumbs down. He believes in abortion in case his girls make a mistake....most Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, Assembly of Gods, do not believe in abortion.
Why is he so hung up on "Hollywood? Let's face it, he thinks he is a God!
Posted by: WISE OWL | July 10, 2008 9:40 PM
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Although I like Jesse Jackson, I do not like Obama. Yes, he did talk down to black people. You can't change nature. If they want to change they will. Obama likes to play God. He has no experience and has no shame because he does not have it.
How he can say he is a christian is a wonderment to me. He professes to have no problem with lifting the ban on gay and lesbian marriage which since Moses, the bible has given thumbs down. He believes in abortion in case his girls make a mistake....most Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, Assembly of Gods, do not believe in abortion.
Why is he so hung up on "Hollywood? Let's face it, he thinks he is a God!
Posted by: WISE OWL | July 10, 2008 9:39 PM
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I meant to write "overpriveleged." I'm sorry.
Posted by: Paulette | July 10, 2008 9:14 PM
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Allan's right. Jesse Jackson is no saint, but he never told black people not to take responsibility for themselves. He never talked to us like we somehow weren't getting it. He recognized that we had to do for ourselves and that is what most of us have been doing all our lives.
This old black lady doesn't need some underprivileged biracial snot telling her what she needs to do. He should be telling me what he's going to do for working people and right now I'm not feeling too impressed.
Posted by: Paulette | July 10, 2008 9:13 PM
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Blacks leaders should start speaking out about taking some personal responsibility for high rate of high school drop out, sexual promiscuity, children born out of wedlock, , absence of male parenting/role models, drugs, crime, incarceration, AIDS, instead of playing the victim hood game and blaming whites for black failures! Until that time there will always be hate mongers & race baiter,s to use them and profit from their plight like the Rev. Wright, Rev. Jessie Jackson, Rev. Al Sharpton, as well as 10,s of thousands of White and Black Politicians. In fact the whole Democrat party! Hand outs, instead of a hand up, is the means of keeping Blacks down and economic Slaves! Keeping Blacks as an race of victims and believing all of the above is Whitey fault is designed to keep them from progressing instead of a race of achievers! It is in the best interest of Black preachers and Democrat politicians! Blacks will never be lead to the promise land by hate mongering Preachers like Rev. Wright or by bottom feeding Politicians that wants and works to keep Blacks in the Ghetto, on Welfare, and voting Democrat!
Posted by: Black Saint | July 10, 2008 8:46 PM
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It's time for those who thought JJ was on their side to come to the realization that he was only out for himself, and so take heart, and trust, in Obama. If this doesn't clearly demonstrate that JJ has his own agenda, then you are beyond keeping hope alive. Basically what he was saying, is that he is better than Obama; that Obama should be bowing to JJ. That is, illusion, and it's time for JJ's puppet show to end. JJ used the division to his own gain. Obama wants to truly end the division, for everyone's gain. Those that embraced what JJ has "done" over the years might be disappointed by Obama's perspective and realism. The rest of us, will welcome it.
Posted by: Bill Monroe | July 10, 2008 8:14 PM
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The pundits say Jackson is jealous. Will black folks recognize Barak as the new black leader? Think about it. Blue collar white voters are thinking about it to be sure and thinking about it makes their heads hurt.
With just a little more help from the black community religious, "faith" based leaders Obama will _______. He has been endorsed by the Black Muslims or can we look forward to that event?
Posted by: BGone | July 10, 2008 6:57 PM
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So the "Reverend" Jesse Jackson is chafing at Barack Obama's call to personal responsibility. That's understandable since Jackson doesn't manifest personal responsibility for his actions, specifically, the child born of his affair with another woman while married.
Jesse Jackson, like his buddy and fellow bro', Bill Clinton, is a fossil from an earlier time. Get in line or get out of the way. Both Jackson and Clinton are a major drag on progress.
Posted by: jim | July 10, 2008 6:44 PM
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Bob,
great post and insight
Posted by: center | July 10, 2008 6:25 PM
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When someone called me last week to pledge some money to Obama I reached deep and pledged a hundred. But after the FISA cave in I called and told his campaign to forget it. Why give money to another sell-out candidate who doesn't give a damn about the constitution?
Posted by: joe | July 10, 2008 6:04 PM
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Kudos to the 56 year old Bob. Love his perspective.
And all of y'all, Obama is NOT black. He is bi-racial. In the past, the black community took in all the half-bloods as their own not just out of generosity (the whites didnt accept them anyways), but also to bolster their numbers for a voice. Nothin wrong with any of that.
But, now, as Bob says, the cage is open. Therefore recognize Obama for what he is, and not try to pigeon hole him.
They tried that with Tiger Woods. He shunned it pretty successfully
Posted by: Joe | July 10, 2008 6:00 PM
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Kudos to the 56 year old Bob. Love his perspective.
And all of y'all, Obama is NOT black. He is bi-racial. In the past, the black community took in all the half-bloods as their own not just out of generosity (the whites didnt accept them anyways), but also to bolster their numbers for a voice. Nothin wrong with any of that.
But, now, as Bob says, the cage is open. Therefore recognize Obama for what he is, and not try to pigeon hole him.
They tried that with Tiger Woods. He shunned it pretty successfully
Posted by: Joe | July 10, 2008 5:59 PM
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Jesse forgot something alright. Mrs. Obama already castrated the dude a long time ago.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | July 10, 2008 5:54 PM
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I have at least read Obama's two books cover-to-cover, and reread some chapters. Nowhere did I encounter any screaming left-wingnut screeds. He is very concerned about the plight of the poor; but he is temperamentally a moderate, not a far-left liberal like Jesse Jackson Sr. That is what makes Obama a formidable, winning candidate.
Posted by: oldhonky | July 10, 2008 5:40 PM
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"Secularists ... are people who easily acknowledge their own folly and tolerate the folly of others."
Ha ha ha ha! You're joking, right Berlinerblau?
Most of the self-described secularists I know (personally and online) are rather arrogant and self-righteous. They're the first to laugh at a others' folly, and out of pride, they deny their own folly to the bitter end. This is a generalization of course, but a more accurate one than yours, IME.
PS, I wouldn't say that religious types are any better in this department, at least not the ones who get the press's attention.
Posted by: biteme1 | July 10, 2008 5:40 PM
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MHR-
Not known for their knowledge of issues? HaHa. Let's pass a bill to drill ANWR tomorrow, and everything will be solved. HURRAY!!!
Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
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One mistake the writer commits is assuming that Barack risks alienating his base. Wrong! They will vote for him even if he says he has traveled to Mars in a space ship or that he owes everything he is to his white mother and her family- which appears to be the truth- or that he is a secret communist. His fanatical fans are swept by emotion and not by anything this clever fellow says. He is all over the map with his daily changes on the issues and they don't even notice. This is not an electorate that is known for its knowledge of the issues. Barack is their rock star.
Posted by: mhr | July 10, 2008 5:11 PM
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I guess I heard Jesse Jackson say something different than other people. I heard him say that he didn't like Obama talking down to black people in black churches.
I'm a thirty-one year old black man, a lot younger than Jesse and that could be why I like it a lot less than he does. Don't much care for it at all.
Posted by: Allan | July 10, 2008 5:11 PM
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Bob, thank you for your offering your perspective and history lesson. Bless you. We can all learn from your insightful comments.
Posted by: kgotthardt | July 10, 2008 5:04 PM
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Wow, Bob, thank you for that outstanding metaphor and history lesson. Bless you. We could all learn from your insightful comments.
Posted by: kgotthardt | July 10, 2008 5:02 PM
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I'm African American and 56 years old so I guess I get to say this.
A lion spent twenty years pacing in his cage. 10 feet up. 10 feet back. One day he was freed. Taken to a wildlife reserve, the zookeeper opened the cage. The lion paced 10 feet up and 10 feet back.
The moral of this story is, after centuries of bad times, a lot of black folk are having a hard time seeing that the cage is open. Consider what Jesse Jackson has seen in his day. Among other things, he cradled the dying MLK. He will always be suspicious and a little angry. Just as Jesse Helms was always going to be racist. All is not perfect, but the cage is open. Jesse Jackson, Jr. knows this.
The children of the slave owners (figuratively speaking)have shown a desire that everyone be equal. The children of the slaves must find forgiveness and become patriots. There is no balm that will soothe what African Americans have endured in America but forgiveness.
At 56 years old, the Obama candidacy has shown me a sincere desire in this nation for a color blind society. And I can't tell you, how long I have been waiting to be a patriot.
Posted by: Bob | July 10, 2008 4:58 PM
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Just goes to show we should have nominated Hillary. We knew what we were getting.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2008 4:50 PM
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I have admired Jesse Jackson's civil rights' work but never liked his politics. I would like Sen . Obama to put him to a test for his loyality .Let there be a requirement for JJ and his organization to register one million new voters before accepting Jesse's apology.
Posted by: DANIAL FAROOQ | July 10, 2008 4:47 PM
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I find it HARD to believe that Jackson made a "mistake" or "forgot" any timeless rules of thumb. I think the remark was made with full intention of it being picked up.
IMO, Jackson is miffed that Obama is running as a post-racial candidate for ALL Americans, and thinks that Obama should run as a BLACK candidate, even though it would mean sure defeat.
IIRC, Jackson and Bill Clinton were real thick, so this also fits under the heading of payback for beating Hilary in the primaries.
Jackson is a skunk who more or less extorts money from firms with his unique form of blackmail where he seeks funding for Operation Push and threatens a boycott of that firm if he doesn't get it.
Most black people I know pay little or no attention to Jackson or to Sharpton, both of whom are opportunistic grandstanders.
Posted by: 809212876 | July 10, 2008 4:40 PM
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Just a thought...
Considering how much Obama has been trying to move to the center lately, has anyone considered the possibility that this whole thing was orchestrated?
It's been noted that having Jesse Jackson speak out against Obama can only help him with the "Reagan Democrats" since Jackson has always been seen as extremely liberal.
Is it possible Obama, Jesse & Jesse's son planned this whole thing??
Posted by: Fred | July 10, 2008 4:27 PM
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For several decades it has been speculative Rev Jackson creates division this open microphone is a witness that he does. A Godly man of his standing cannot provide a substantial reason for uttering such profane words against his another man / his neighbor. An apology isn't enough Rev. Jackson need to be called out.
Posted by: deeCole Montg. Al | July 10, 2008 4:17 PM
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I heard Brit Hume on WTOP this morning, giving the opinion that JJ might be jealous of Obama for achieving what he couldn't. I hate to say that I agree with Brit Hume, but there might be some truth in that. When JJ ran for President in 1988, it was a different time. Racial tensions were a lot higher then. JJ was running as the "black candidate". Obama is running as the post-racial candidate that is trying to appeal to everyone regardless of race.
I find it rather amusing that Jesse Jackson, Jr. put out a press release that basically told off his father. I can just imagine what dinner is going to be like at the next Jackson family reunion! :D
Besides, Jesse should have known better than to make any kind of disparaging comment while in the Fox News building. You have to think that they left the mike hot on purpose to try to catch him saying something stupid.
Posted by: Athena | July 10, 2008 2:54 PM
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I've never been a fan of Jesse Jackson, although I do respect some of his work. Jackson's comment goes to Obama's elitism, which is a reality. Obama should take heed.
And while he's taking heed, this future Obama voter, would like to see him rid himself of Zbignew Brezinski and other Carterites, along with Chicago Democratic Daily Machine pols and advisers.
One Carter presidency was one too many, and a Daily presidency would likely be wors.
Posted by: Farnaz | July 10, 2008 1:24 PM
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The not so reverend, reverend Jackson is bitter; he knows he is not significant to current political debates. What he said was juvenile; he throws a tantrum in hopeless effort to tell others that he is of significance.
Posted by: center | July 10, 2008 12:32 PM
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just a quick note to jacques:
i always look forward to seeing your commentary pop up in my feed aggregator. your writing, unlike so many other secularists online, is level-headed and moderate. keep up the great work with this column.
Posted by: rusty | July 10, 2008 11:55 AM
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This is the second reverend to screw Obama. If there's any lesson to be learned it is to pay off the priests to mitigate the damage of their treachery. A rich priest is a friendly priest.
Posted by: Stuart | July 10, 2008 11:40 AM
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The comments to this entry are closed.
If the Rev. Jesse Jackson is truly "reverend"
(literally, "deserving reverence") then I'm the
Pope.