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Obama's Latest Pastor Disaster
By the time you finish watching this YouTube video (which had about 95,000 showings as of this morning) it will be well on its way to reaching: 1) its one millionth viewing, and, 2) its one billionth close reading by Clinton and McCain staffers.
The action took place last Sunday at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Yes. That Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago! This time, however, the valedictory is made not by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, but by a white Chicago Catholic priest by the name of Rev. Michael Pfleger.
During his sermon, Father Pfleger mocked Hillary Clinton's tears before the New Hampshire primary. He opines that she cried because she felt "entitled" because she is white "and there's a black man stealing my show.'' Father Pfleger apologized late Thursday for the remarks, saying his sermon was "inconsistent with Senator Obama's life and message."
But by delivering his remarks, Father Pfleger seems to have officially submitted his entry to the What Else Can We At Trinity Do to Further Assure that the United States Does Not Have Its First African-American President Any Time Soon? video competition. And this application has “Finalist” marked all over it.
It achieves this status because Father Pfleger has more than a passing acquaintance with the person who stands on the verge of winning the Democratic Party’s nomination.
His precise relation to Senator Obama is presently being pieced together and rehearsed in articles across the internet (such as this one, and this one). As of now, it seems fair to say that Pfleger (who has suddenly disappeared from the candidate’s website) and Obama have known and liked one another for a long time. The former appears to have financially contributed to previous campaigns and to have worked for the present one prior to the Iowa Caucus.
According to widely circulated reports (although I have not been able to track down the original source in the few hours since this story broke) Obama once referred to Pfleger as a “spiritual adviser” in a 2004 Chicago Sun-Times article.
It's going to be a long weekend for the Obama people.
We have recently had the opportunity to see John McCain’s Pastor Distancing Techniques on display. Barack Obama, also well versed in Faith Based Disaster Management, has swiftly and unambiguously denounced the remarks. This rapid response might minimize the damage. In his own words:
As I have traveled this country, I've been impressed not by what divides us, but by all that that unites us. That is why I am deeply disappointed in Father Pfleger's divisive, backward-looking rhetoric, which doesn't reflect the country I see or the desire of people across America to come together in common cause.
After watching -- slackjawed -- Father Michael Pfleger’s remarks about Hillary Clinton and White privilege I have queries. First, what is it about that particular pulpit that brings out the inner Chris Rock in assorted Men of God?
Second, are there any guys on the face of the earth having more fun than the four fellows in robes whooping it up directly behind Father Pfleger? Third, are we going to be told by Obama operatives that the remarks were taken out of context? Fourth, and most importantly, what will be the fallout for the Obama campaign?
In a general election a presidential candidate typically moves to the center. It is now going to be even harder for Obama to do that since America keeps seeing footage of his friends who stand to the left of Fidel Castro.
But that's not all. The Senator from Illinois has his share of difficulties with White Blue Collar voters. I have observed elsewhere that this group loathes this type of rhetoric (unless it comes from Chris Rock).
There's more to be concerned about. Obama has demonstrated some weakness with Catholic voters. The fact that he finds himself receiving glowing praise from a priest who has been in a running, public feud with his local Cardinal might aggravate the problem.
Let's not forget Senator Clinton. She surely will chime in on this controversy later today. It will deflect attention from her own recent gaffes. And it will strengthen her supporters’ conviction that the racial hang-ups of Obama’s inner circle will accrue to John McCain’s greater glory. Too, there is more than a touch of misogyny in the priest's oratory and (as the Male Space Invader Rick Lazio learned the hard way) many women voters rally to Hillary when they feel a gendered slight.
I don’t doubt that the Senator’s aforementioned words of regret are sincere. I don’t doubt that he truly deplores this type of rhetoric. But how many more radical Left- wing confidantes from the South Side can undecided voters withstand? At what point do they start questioning the man's claims about being a unifier who is above Red States and Blue States, Republican and Democrat, Conservative and Liberal?
(For more information about religion and the candidates check out Faith 2008 by the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace & World Affairs.)
By Jacques Berlinerblau |
May 29, 2008; 7:53 PM ET
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Posted by: Anonymous | June 12, 2008 8:51 PM
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@ john salifu,
The only place Obama and his liberal Democrat "buddies" are going to take us is into a socialist society with a slash of Marxism for good measure. I will pass on both.
Posted by: obiewan | June 12, 2008 8:42 PM
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America is great country that enjoys greatness from the diversity of people from all over the world that have become citizens.
A hybrid like obama will take America to greater heights considering the highly experienceed democrats that are backing the candidates.
Posted by: john salifu | June 5, 2008 5:50 AM
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Dear MikeinPhilly -
A friend of mine who also enjoys opera once said that if you dislike a particular singer it's easy to verbalize what's wrong with their singing.
In the case of Obama, there are many people who will just never vote for the guy. Start with the die-hard Republicans who never have and never will vote for a Democrat. Next, there's the people who won't vote for a black, Dem or Rep. Then, there's the people who simply refuse to vote, ever (about half the country).
Such people find it easy to verbalize why they won't vote for Obama.
People who are die-hard Obama fans or even "hold my nose and always vote for the Dem" Democrats find it easy to verbalize why they'll vote for Obama, no matter what.
Ergo, it comes down to whether the remarks made by a nutty priest or minister has an actual impact on the voting sensibilities of people in the middle, people who by nature are willing to give all sides a fair hearing.
At this point, the anti-Obama fires are being stoked primarily by the RWers who will never vote for a Dem and who will do their worst to derail any non-R candidate. I believe (and it's my opinion, not a fact) that most people in the middle have had enough of the lies and corruption of the Rep Party and recognize the anti-Obama propaganda for what it is, ie: more lies and spin from the worst our political system has to offer.
So, I'm not worried about it. We're a long way from November, and once Hillary concedes this week, the RW will lose a major enabler of their anti-Obama tactics.
Gotta go.
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 2, 2008 1:40 PM
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U Tube is not a balanced forum. Senator Obama has referred many times to the good works done by Trinity church and the many positive contributions that Rev. Wright has made to that community. We have not seen videos on U Tube any of the positive sermons, nor has the news media seemed to feel any compunction about spewing only the extreme controversial buffonery (that seems to be a kind of occasional off shoot of a religious culture that tends to be emotional and demonstrative and outspoken) without giving even a nod to the uplifting sermons and public works that have benefited the Chicago black and poor communities. It seems to me, that if we are going to move past racism than we should not be dwelling exclusively on our differences and give some time to comptemplate the good we share as fellow human beings.
Posted by: Madeleine | June 2, 2008 11:48 AM
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U Tube is not a balanced forum. Senator Obama has referred many times to the good works done by Trinity church and the many positive contributions that Rev. Wright has made to that community. We have not seen videos on U Tube any of the positive sermons, nor has the news media seemed to feel any compunction about spewing only the extreme controversial buffonery (that seems to be a kind of occasional off shoot of a religious culture that tends to be emotional and demonstrative and outspoken) without giving even a nod to the uplifting sermons and public works that have benefited the Chicago black and poor communities. It seems to me, that if we are going to move past racism than we should not be dwelling exclusively on our differences and give some time to comptemplate the good we share as fellow human beings.
Posted by: Madeleine | June 2, 2008 11:47 AM
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Madeleine:
The "racism" won't go away. There are people with a vested interest in fomenting racism because they know it will influence many voters. These people don't think racism is good. They don't really care about the underlying morals or ethics, they are out to win an election. Thus, they simply will use anything to gain a political advantage.
Posted by: MikeinPhilly | June 2, 2008 11:39 AM
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U Tube is not a balanced forum. Senator Obama has referred many times to the good works done by Trinity church and the many positive contributions that Rev. Wright has made to that community. We have not seen videos on U Tube any of the positive sermons, nor has the news media seemed to feel any compunction about spewing only the extreme controversial buffonery (that seems to be a kind of occasional off shoot of a religious culture that tends to be emotional and demonstrative and outspoken) without giving even a nod to the uplifting sermons and public works that have benefited the Chicago black and poor communities. It seems to me, that if we are going to move past racism than we should not be dwelling exclusively on our differences and give some time to comptemplate the good we share as fellow human beings.
Posted by: Madeleine | June 2, 2008 11:24 AM
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Barack's resignation was a purely political move and the propagation of this video was a purely political move. He is being forced to throw all of his friends under the bus for an office he can never win thanks to the political sludge fest that has ruined the images of Hillary and Barack forever. He's not responsible for someone else's comedy schtick even if it is in a pulpit. But whatev! He's not winning (and it's probably for the best). He's probably going to rejoin TUCC after he loses in November.
Posted by: dcp | June 2, 2008 11:19 AM
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MR MARK:
I will absolutely vote for Obama (I think McCain would be a terrible president, although I think he is a person of integrity as far as presidential candidates go).
My concern is that, given how fickle our populace tends to be, if anyone isn't committed to voting for Obama, these nutty pastor episodes can give them reason for pause. Justified or not, that's how politics is played.
Thus, to the person who said these pastor issues are unimportant, I think you are incorrect. Any issue having the potential to garner significant public attention and be used to "smear" a candidate is important (and I predict that this issue has significant staying power). As we saw with the Swift Boat ads, it doesn't matter if it's a bunch of lies; many, probably millions, of Americans (whose SOLE source of election information is TV ads --they read NOTHING) are influenced by such tactics. And many of them will believe it (and for many of them it's exactly the type of information they were hoping they could glom onto to justify voting against a candidate who is too liberal, too conservative, black, whatever).
Posted by: MikeinPhilly | June 2, 2008 11:14 AM
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there is nothing relevent about this. i have friends that can be dicks at times too, so what? this says nothing about how good of a president obama would be. its non-storys like this that distracted everyone back in 2004 and kept them from thinking about who would be better at the job. unless people get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to real issues they're going to keep electing idiots like bush.
after the 2004 election there was a headline in a british newspaper that asked how 50 million people could be so stupid, unfortunately i have my doubts as to whether those 50 million people are any smarter this time around.
Posted by: jeff bailey | June 2, 2008 10:23 AM
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Though I was never an Obama supporter due to his leftist and black-racist-church background, I still somewhat admired his presence and his seeming loyalty to his church of twenty years. Now that he has found it necessary for his political ambitions to abandon that church, I find nothing redemptive in the man. Obama now is nothing more than a shining example of naked ambition that is willing to abandon ANY friend, and support ANY foe to win elections. What a designer-suited, well-polished, ambitious, and slippery person. He reminds me of MacBeth, whose ambition led him to murder the rightful King and bring civil war upon his country.
Posted by: DoTheRightThing | June 2, 2008 10:15 AM
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It still ceases to amaze me how wide the divide is between black and white people. I am black, I actually do not attend church, but I admit to enjoying some sermons, including Father Pfleger's. I have not spoken to a single black person who didn't enjoy it. Instead of judging the sermon, you should be asking why black people enjoyed it so much. It's that the root of the issue? Did I believe everything he said, no. Did I laugh, yes. I am so sick of every commentator talking about how anyone could belong to that church. Do you know how popular that church is in Chicago. Everyone I know from Chicago has been a member at one time or another. It's considered very mainstream there. Now, all of a sudden, it's the craziest place anywhere. I'm actually sick of all of the people passing judgement instead of wanting to learn more!
Posted by: KVB | June 2, 2008 9:40 AM
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This sermon was so clearly designed to deeply offend Senator Clinton's supporters at the most curtial time, I strongly suspect that WAS THE INTENT. This Priest intent was to insure that Senator Obama would not be the first African American President.
Posted by: Muddy Buddy | June 2, 2008 9:29 AM
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For to-be-President Barak Obama
Posted by: Anonymous | June 2, 2008 5:15 AM
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f**ck u!
Posted by: Anonymous | June 2, 2008 5:09 AM
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Dear Mike inPhilly -
Why be worried about Obama and his relationship to the nutty clergymen?
First - by definition, clergymen are nutty. They all believe in and preach nutty things about imaginary beings.
Second - if people are looking for a guilt-by-association reason to not vote for Obama, why focus on his relationships with some nutty clergymen that he sees a couple of times a year? Why not focus on his more-often and deeper associations with his fellow Senators? Guys like Joe Lieberman, Ted Stevens, Norm Coleman, Sam Brownback, Larry Craig and (gasp!) Hillary Clinton? He's around these people almost every day, even sits next to 'em and chows down with them.
I mean, after all, these are just a few of the people who have cast votes that have DIRECTLY and NEGATIVELY impacted the lives of millions of Americans, most notably those who have been impacted by their votes to go to war in Iraq. By comparison, any big fish/small pond comments these clergymen have made pale in comparison to their actual effect on the country and their influence upon Sen Obama's worldview.
Third - if you're really worried about Obama's relationship with the nut factory, take a gander at the "men of god" his rival, McCain, has been hanging with. I mean, really, no one wins this battle-of-the-crappiest-clergy, do they?
See you at the polls.
Vote Obama!
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 2, 2008 1:32 AM
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I'm a white Obama supporter but I'm worried. Apart from any racism, I suspect there may be a lot of people who were willing to give Obama a chance, and maybe even thought he would be a great candidate, but now may simply decide that it's just too risky to vote for someone who hangs out with obvious nut cases like Wright and Pfleger (or who at least has spent a long time at a church that gives prominence to such clowns). Is my worrying justified?
Posted by: MikeinPhilly | June 1, 2008 11:58 PM
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Okay...
Some of you are definitely very well versed on theory, and are KING OBAMA supporters.
As a young lad... I learned that you do not discuss, politics, religion and sex in the workplace.
Religion... is a belief... per and simple. The individual selects WHICH belief or religion that they practice.
It is like anything else... while the BIBLE may have been written in one language. It has had many spin offs of those writing/beliefs have become major religions.
How does this relate to KING OBAMA. He pawns himself as a 'christian' pure and simple. HE HIDES
HIS TRUE RELIGION from mainstream media and you the American Voter because he BELIEVES in what VIPER WRIGHT teaches.
We learn that we are a product of OUR ENVIRONMENT.
Our parents, teachers, friends, associates and our PRIESTS and PASTORS make us the HUMAN BEING that we are. Without this support system we are NOTHING.
In KING OBAMA'S case his white mother and grandparents fashioned who he was until he became BLACK. He was exposed to the Muslim religion at a very early age. He attended a catholic school at this time.
HE DOES NOT ADMIT to being anything but a Christian period. Yet if we take the 'we are a product of our environment' one step further... He is a product of the teachings of Viper Wright along with his wife and children.
While he can keep his religious beliefs HIDDEN from the masses. (Read American Voter) It is his feelings about WHITE AMERICAN and ANTI-AMERICAN teachings from these religious leaders, from some of his CHICAGO STYLE associates.
Everything I have read leads me to believe that there is a 'deeper' hidden agenda for KING OBAMA.
He has bought the American Voter with the BEST ADVERTISING that money can BUY.
He is not you typical politician... he will be the downfall of the UNITED STATES as we know it.
The Repuklicans and their Democrat cronies have spent the UNITED STATES into owning every country in the world.
The politicians are only concerned with getting re-elected and POWER and MONEY.
DUTY, HONOR AND COUNTRY is only a motto.
I will always question his HONOR, his believe in DUTY to ALL AMERICA not just the BLACK AFRICAN POPULATION.
So far he has not indicated any commitment to the United States as a whole.
The Catholic Priest was speaking in the 'tongues' of those in the pews. He adapted his sermon and verbage to that of his audience.
Not early in the campaign...King Obama and his wife used this same style of talking to the audience. NOW he is much more refined... he wants show the WHITE MIDDLE CLASS voter that he talks their language.
He is temporarily walking away for Trinty Church and his friends in that Church. If you are dumb enough to elect PRESIDENT.
You will be responsible for establishing KING OBAMA as the First President that is first generation foreign national.. (Citizen ship in Kenya..)
Posted by: miller51550 | June 1, 2008 11:42 PM
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Reverend Wright told a flamboyant repressed Truth of American society since the Theft of America from the Native Americans. Secondarily Reverend Pfleger, was the Exclamation point, in another Pervasive mentality of entitlement and it can be purchased, American Politics and Governments of today’s arena? In church shall not all truth be told?
Now Everyone…, Let go, Move Forward and Live.
Posted by: Peter Frady | June 1, 2008 11:21 PM
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CANDIDE is a Muslim blogger who specializes in bashing Christians.
Posted by: Anonymous | June 1, 2008 10:00 PM
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Dear Arminius -
So, there we have it.
After your numerous requests that we On Faith bloggers not lump you in with the "fundies" and other religionists, in the end, you end up doing exactly what "they" do when confronted with something that challenges their faith at its core. You shut down the conversation from your end and flee the field.
When the going gets personal, the Xians ALWAYS flee the field.
Or, sure, you'll discuss the nuances of Xianity, agree with some points of faith, disagree with others (as in, "anything older than the Babylonian Exile is probably myth, and anything older than Abraham most definitely is myth," or, "I accept...the entire NT except for Revelation"), you'll even join in on the atheistic fun and mock the fundies, but when it comes to a legitimate challenge to your core beliefs, well, it's time to pick up one's toys and go home. And on the "discussing belief" front with Mr Mark, it's Arminius who's going home forever.
Well, let me say that I'm disappointed, but not surprised.
Disappointed because you give every indication of wanting to play in the sandbox a bit, but not surprised because - sadly - this is the way it always ends when religionists of all stripes can no longer offer a cogent EXPLANATION of their beliefs, and must fall back on the, "you've crossed the line...I'm hurt" gambit.
I really don't know what you were expecting from an avowed non-believer like myself.
Am I to cut you slack as a religious "moderate" (based upon...what? Your statement that the pre-Abraham sections of the Bible are myth? Your love of music?), even as your "this conversation is now closed" smacks of the worst attitude of the fundamentalist? Just how moderate are you? Not much, I'm afraid to say.
And, I think I would be remiss if I didn't point out my reply that has so hurt you originated NOT from something I initiated with you, but, rather, a reply I posted to MHR that you elected to hop in on and to comment upon. Considering what I had posted to MHR, I am at a loss for what you believed your entering the fray would accomplish. A change in the tenor of the discussion? Retraction or moderation of my statement that, "...self loathing of oneself and of humanity itself is part and parcel to the Xian view of life?"
How little you know me, my friend.
I will be the first to grant that your faith/beliefs are personal to you, an "absolute," as you say. But let me ask you this: what makes you think your beliefs are any more personal or any more absolute than those of the typical fundie, or the typical fair-weather Xian, or the type of Xian that YOU choose to find nutty, for that matter?
Isn't that the beauty and curse of the Xian faith, that no one need take it as 100% true to find their "personal" path of "absolute truth"; that you're allowed - every one of you! - to pick and choose what you'll believe as truth and what you'll discard and even laugh at as myth; that the TRUTH of the matter is that though even "if two be gathered in Jesus name," while He may be there, 100% agreement on beliefs between the two Earthly attendees of said gathering is unattainable?
Most egregiously, you choose to close down this avenue of discussion ("we part ways forever here on the subject of belief") instituting a one-way street where you're nowhere to be found, while allowing (ALLOWING!) that the two-way street on OTHER topics (like music) remain open between us and well-travelled.
OK, but please don't act hurt or surprised if I fail to hold up MY end of the conversation on those 2-way streets that you deign to be still acceptable to and operational in our online relationship. Like any other dance, it takes two to tango, and I may be a bit more circumspect on who in the future fills my dance card. After all, this blog is called "On Faith," not, "On Classical Music," and I fully intend to chat with fellow bloggers on this blog's foundational "faith" subject 99.99% of the time.
Arminius, I don't know if you're a fan of the TV show "Sex and the City," but there was one episode where Charlotte found it to be quite stimulating and fun to hang out with a group of lipstick lesbians. They thought she was fun, too...at least until push came to shove, and it became clear that Charlotte was not going to put her mouth where their muffs were. Playing "at" the lesbian lifestyle was fun. Embracing its reality was quite another thing.
In a way, your flirtation with the atheists on the blog has that kind of "Charlotte" feeling to it. Perhaps I'm wrong, but there you have it.
It seems that you find the atheist-perspective conversation about faith stimulating. The reality behind the perspective (ie: that we atheists see all faiths and all LEVELS of faith to be equally fantasy based)? Not so much.
The moral: lesbians are lesbians, and atheists are atheists.
Sad to see you taking your toys elsewhere. Take care of yourself.
PS: I don't believe in absolutes, so I'm not closing any future doors to you, even if this post seems unnecessarily harsh.
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 1, 2008 9:41 PM
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Hi, Mr Mark,
You said, with grace and honesty,
"Would you allow that perhaps - PERHAPS - there is a sound, natural, non-supernatural, non-deistic answer to what your "spiritual" experience actually was, Arminius? Can you contemplate that such an explanation might be out there, and if so, that it could lead you back to atheism just as surely as your spiritual experience led you back to religion?
I'm hoping you say "yes" to the above. Otherwise, you prove your mind just as rusted shut as the next guy (extremist or spiritualist...or not)."
My reply:
I think, with all due well-meant respect, that we part ways forever here on the subject of belief. So be it. I will continue to uphold you on other subjects, both barrels loaded and claymore ready at hand. When necessary... I prefer words.
What happened to me is, to me, an absolute truth. I can no more deny it than to deny my own existence. It is that deep. I don't care if I am judged mad. I only ask you to think in gray, not black and white, on this subject.
Let us allow sleeping dogs to lie. I still have much to learn from you on other subjects, and I look forward to that. Especially music!
On the Eighth Day, God Created Bagpipes!
Arminius
Posted by: Arminius | June 1, 2008 7:28 PM
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">">http://Please,.v./.i./.s./.i./.t/> US, from TiME to TiME @ Chuck Colson et al Wants to Nationalize 'Christianity' in U.S.A.?
From: Assistant Professor, Jacques Berlinerblau; Georgetown University, et al, recently Wrote:
Freedom from Religion;
The following remarks were delivered at the opening of a debate which will be aired on PBS over the next few weeks (Yes, check local listings).
The event took place in Richmond Virginia at the splendid Jefferson Hotel and was sponsored by the Miller Center for Public Affairs and MacNeil/Lehrer Productions.
There were four participants debating the proposition that “religion should have no place in politics and government.” I was, as you might surmise, on the “pro” side and my teammate was the Reverend Barry Lynn. On the “con” side were “On Faith” panelist Chuck Colson and Bishop Henry Jackson. It was a wild ride, but a civil one.
As Prepared for Delivery
There is No Religious Freedom Without Freedom from Religion
Tonight we are debating the proposition that “religion should have no place in politics and government.” Let me state from the outset that I--a garden-variety Jewish atheist—wholly concur.
It has come to my attention, however, that many of my compatriots do not. Reverend Barry Lynn’s organization recently reported that 65 % of Americans believed that "the Founders intended the United States to be a Christian nation.” A 2006 study by the Pew Forum noted that nearly 7 out of 10 citizens say that “liberals have gone too far in keeping religion out of schools and government.”
In short, many Americans of good conscience have rejected the core principles of secularism. For them, considerations of faith must inform our leaders’ political deliberations. That, they argue, it what the Founding Fathers wanted. Our inability to respect their wishes, it is alleged, has transformed our country into something of a secular Apartheid State. Ours has become a nation where the whims of a small elite have supplanted the will of the majority.
Now let me be frank: The most pressing challenge facing American secularism today consists of refuting these beliefs. But the challenge cannot not only be waged in the higher courts--up until recently the “home field” of our secular worldview.
Instead we must prevail in the arena of public opinion. For, American secularism is facing a “legitimation crisis.” As the statistics cited above indicate, we have yet to convince our fellow citizens of truths we hold self-evident. Therefore it is our task not merely to litigate, but to persuade.
So in the name of persuasion here are three reasons to adopt tonight’s proposition. First, mixing religion and politics will grant an unfair advantage to one religion. Why is that? In a country where 80% of the population self-identifies as Christian, those who infuse faith into the government risk creating some sort of Christian Establishment.
But Christianity is many things. It is Southern Baptism and Catholicism, Mormonism and Methodism, Presbyterianism and Pentecostalism. Given how diverse American Christendom actually is, such an Establishment will not only alienate religious minorities, but most Christians as well!
This brings me to a second point: keeping the public square free of religious considerations has been a boon for people of faith. It keeps Christians, among others, off one another’s backs. Moreover, it provides believers of all stripes with the ability to worship the divine in peace and security.
Finally, the idea of segregating faith and politics is not antithetical to Christian thought, but lies at the very heart of its intellectual tradition. We find traces of it in Bible. We glean hints of it in the writings of Augustine (and isn’t it interesting that Pope Benedict recently commented that he found “true secularism” in Augustine’s City of God. If the Holy Father can find something redeeming in Secularism than it must be kosher, so to speak). We see this idea engaged in the political philosophy of Martin Luther and John Locke, to name but a few. The endeavor to keep the public sphere naked—pornographically naked if you like those sorts of metaphors-- is an idea with a Christian genealogy.
To conclude, I will proclaim that “there is no religious freedom without freedom from religion.” The two go hand in hand. It is this idea which I wish to convince you of tonight.
(For more information about religion and the candidates check out Faith 2008 by the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace & World Affairs).
Posted by Jacques Berlinerblau via The G-D VOTE: on March 18, 2008 9:56 AM http://{J}***{O}***{Z}***{E}***{V}***{Z} **{dot}**{US}
Posted by: Anonymous | June 1, 2008 7:21 PM
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===
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Posted by: Anonymous | June 1, 2008 7:17 PM
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Obama's Latest Pastor Disaster
By the time you finish watching this YouTube video (which had about 95,000 showings as of this morning) it will be well on its way to reaching: 1) its one millionth viewing, and, 2) its one billionth close reading by Clinton and McCain staffers.
The action took place last Sunday at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Yes. That Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago! This time, however, the valedictory is made not by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, but by a white Chicago Catholic priest by the name of Rev. Michael Pfleger.
During his sermon, Father Pfleger mocked Hillary Clinton's tears before the New Hampshire primary. He opines that she cried because she felt "entitled" because she is white "and there's a black man stealing my show.'' Father Pfleger apologized late Thursday for the remarks, saying his sermon was "inconsistent with Senator Obama's life and message."
But by delivering his remarks, Father Pfleger seems to have officially submitted his entry to the What Else Can We At Trinity Do to Further Assure that the United States Does Not Have Its First African-American President Any Time Soon? video competition. And this application has “Finalist” marked all over it.
It achieves this status because Father Pfleger has more than a passing acquaintance with the person who stands on the verge of winning the Democratic Party’s nomination.
His precise relation to Senator Obama is presently being pieced together and rehearsed in articles across the internet (such as this one, and this one). As of now, it seems fair to say that Pfleger (who has suddenly disappeared from the candidate’s website) and Obama have known and liked one another for a long time. The former appears to have financially contributed to previous campaigns and to have worked for the present one prior to the Iowa Caucus.
According to widely circulated reports (although I have not been able to track down the original source in the few hours since this story broke) Obama once referred to Pfleger as a “spiritual adviser” in a 2004 Chicago Sun-Times article.
It's going to be a long weekend for the Obama people.
We have recently had the opportunity to see John McCain’s Pastor Distancing Techniques on display. Barack Obama, also well versed in Faith Based Disaster Management, has swiftly and unambiguously denounced the remarks. This rapid response might minimize the damage. In his own words:
As I have traveled this country, I've been impressed not by what divides us, but by all that that unites us. That is why I am deeply disappointed in Father Pfleger's divisive, backward-looking rhetoric, which doesn't reflect the country I see or the desire of people across America to come together in common cause.
After watching -- slackjawed -- Father Michael Pfleger’s remarks about Hillary Clinton and White privilege I have queries. First, what is it about that particular pulpit that brings out the inner Chris Rock in assorted Men of God?
Second, are there any guys on the face of the earth having more fun than the four fellows in robes whooping it up directly behind Father Pfleger? Third, are we going to be told by Obama operatives that the remarks were taken out of context? Fourth, and most importantly, what will be the fallout for the Obama campaign?
In a general election a presidential candidate typically moves to the center. It is now going to be even harder for Obama to do that since America keeps seeing footage of his friends who stand to the left of Fidel Castro.
But that's not all. The Senator from Illinois has his share of difficulties with White Blue Collar voters. I have observed elsewhere that this group loathes this type of rhetoric (unless it comes from Chris Rock).
There's more to be concerned about. Obama has demonstrated some weakness with Catholic voters. The fact that he finds himself receiving glowing praise from a priest who has been in a running, public feud with his local Cardinal might aggravate the problem.
Let's not forget Senator Clinton. She surely will chime in on this controversy later today. It will deflect attention from her own recent gaffes. And it will strengthen her supporters’ conviction that the racial hang-ups of Obama’s inner circle will accrue to John McCain’s greater glory. Too, there is more than a touch of misogyny in the priest's oratory and (as the Male Space Invader Rick Lazio learned the hard way) many women voters rally to Hillary when they feel a gendered slight.
I don’t doubt that the Senator’s aforementioned words of regret are sincere. I don’t doubt that he truly deplores this type of rhetoric. But how many more radical Left- wing confidantes from the South Side can undecided voters withstand? At what point do they start questioning the man's claims about being a unifier who is above Red States and Blue States, Republican and Democrat, Conservative and Liberal?
(For more information about religion and the candidates check out Faith 2008 by the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace & World Affairs.)
Posted by Jacques Berlinerblau on May 29, 2008 7:53 PM
Posted by: Anonymous | June 1, 2008 7:14 PM
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dc..
Posted by: ba. | June 1, 2008 7:12 PM
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Dear Arminius -
First off, thank you for the very kind words. That said, you do have caveats. You wrote:
"But... but.... despite your open mind about so many things, you have a steel trap mind about belief - rusted shut."
(Sidebar - your, "But...but..." put me in the mind of the movie, "Pee-Wee's Big Adventure," where Pee-Wee is telling his new friend, Simone, that if she wishes to go to Paris, she should just go. "But...but," says Simone. "That's the problem,"says Pee-Wee, "every woman I know has a big butt."
But I digress):
You are probably correct that my mind set about religion resembles a steel trap. I wouldn't say rusted shut, because I (obviously) still think about such things, and rust doesn't form on an oft-used hinge. And, while I do believe that I have an open mind on many things, I will readily admit that my mind is fairly closed when it comes to religion, perhaps because I have expended much more time and energy contemplating religion (and it's "truths") than I have contemplating "many other things".
What I have reached is a place where - from my perspective - religion has taken its best shots at credibility and has come up entirely empty. I now see religion and a general belief in the supernatural in the same light as the arguments that were made in support of slavery - once you've decided the premise is false or even abhorrent, no amount of apology puts the gild back on the lily.
I know that you were once and atheist yourself, but that you came back to religion (and Jesus, in particular) because you had a spiritual experience that (and, excuse me if I here paraphrase you incorrectly) you "can't explain." Well, there are plenty of things that were inexplicable at one time or another that have been given a rather sound - and, often times, simple - explanation as man's knowledge set has built and built over the centuries.
Would you allow that perhaps - PERHAPS - there is a sound, natural, non-supernatural, non-deistic answer to what your "spiritual" experience actually was, Arminius? Can you contemplate that such an explanation might be out there, and if so, that it could lead you back to atheism just as surely as your spiritual experience led you back to religion?
I'm hoping you say "yes" to the above. Otherwise, you prove your mind just as rusted shut as the next guy (extremist or spiritualist...or not).
;)
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 1, 2008 6:58 PM
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Speaking of pastors, the absolutely worst pastor was Pius XII who did nothing to help Poles and Jews pursued by Nazis. He was only interested in his own power and the power of his Church. See the book review by Istvan Deak, a distinguished Columbia University scholar, or a book by Dan Kurzman on Hitler and Pius XII in the current New York Review of Books.
Posted by: candide | June 1, 2008 6:43 PM
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Speaking of pastors, the absolutely worst pastor was Pius XII who did nothing to help Poles and Jews pursued by Nazis. He was only interested in his own power and the power of his Church. See the book review by Istvan Deak, a distinguished Columbia University scholar, or a book by Dan Kurzman on Hitler and Pius XII in the current New York Review of Books.
Posted by: candide | June 1, 2008 6:43 PM
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Mr Mark,
First, I consider you as having possibly the finest mind on these blogs. You are extremely intelligent and educated, and, more than that, seem to be quite moral and ethical. These are qualities I respect.
But... but.... despite your open mind about so many things, you have a steel trap mind about belief - rusted shut. Reading between the lines, I know that you somehow view me, and other progressive believers, as somehow, well, retarded. Perhaps that's too harsh a word. Whatever.
I do not view you as misled, let alone 'retarded'. As I have said about non-belief, been there, done that. I know exactly where you are. The difference is that in my three decades of non-belief I never even in thought criticized a believer, unless he/she was trying to force a belief on me or others.
We may have three factions here: the fundies, the militant non-believers, and the moderate believers. The fundies want to eliminate the non-believers and the moderates. The militant non-believers want to somehow do away with all believers. The moderates want us all to continue on the journey, and to debate, not eliminate.
Hell, why am I babbling? No one will give a happy damn anyway.
Posted by: Arminius | June 1, 2008 6:09 PM
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I'm very dissappointed by this post. Apparently Mr. Berlinerblau is not very racially aware. I assume he grew up in a racially homogenius environment.
Posted by: blah | June 1, 2008 5:59 PM
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Arminius -
Certainly, by our societal standards, I am an extremist when it comes to my atheism, especially in the USA where only 16% of people self-identify as non-believers and where anti-theists are a small subset of non-believers.
That said, I'm considered less of an extremist in this country than I would have been 30 years ago. AND, I'm actually in the majority in much of Europe where the religionists are considered to be the extremists. How about that?
As far as considering oneself to be an extremist, I don't know anyone who considers themselves to be so. Perhaps anarchists, but people who hold other passionate beliefs? No, we just consider ourselves to be ardent, as do you.
I'm probably also considered an elitist by many. Who knows? You may as well throw all of the "e" epithets at me! I'm sure most of them fit one way or the other.
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 1, 2008 5:42 PM
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The fact you're missing is that these people aren't deliberately dissing Barack (except for Wright playing "The Dozen's" at the Press Corps dinner) but doing what they have done for years and did when Obama was there for 20 years. This is normal for these folks and normal for Obama. He is the man who "changing", not them. He is changing for political reasons. Once he gets elected, if he is, it will be very interesting how he satisfies his friends who helped create his presidential candidacy. They have to be more enticing to him than his new friends in Washington will be. He has to fake it everyday with them and the "typical American" person.
Posted by: Lynn E | June 1, 2008 5:42 PM
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Let me say that I am pleased as punch that we're having this national debate on the crazy priests and pastors. If the country is willing to take a critical look at the personalities involved, then the basic beliefs as espoused by religion can't be too far behind in getting the same critical look, a look that will - ultimately - be their undoing.
That's the way things go. Just as Reagan's grandfatherly personality put a kind face on the debauchery, selfishness and emptiness of Republican policies, so his absence has allowed the mask to be stripped away. So, what starts as a general dislike of the personalities involved (bush, cheney et al) eventually morphs into a dislike of and disbelief in the core principles behind those personalities. In a short twenty years, regard for the Republican Party has gone from admiration of the Party as an extension of Reagan's personality , to dislike of bush to a loathing of the Republican Party as an extension of bush.
Ah, to live in a country where Xianity is discredited for the shell game it is, just as conservatism is now in the crapper. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 1, 2008 5:28 PM
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Mr Mark,
Do all us Christians look alike to you?
You generalize. I did not throw out the entire OT, I said that anything older than the Babylonian Exile is probably myth, and anything older than Abraham most definitely is myth. Also, I accept, with a few reservations, the entire NT except for Revelation.
I try very hard to follow MLK's dream of judging each individual by his/her character, not his/her religion/race/whatever. I don't always succeed, I am definitely prejudiced against any extremest, of whatever stripe. I think you consider any believer an extremest. I do not expect you to admit this, but you might try to think about it. But don't you realize that if what I say is true, you are also an extremist?
Posted by: Arminius | June 1, 2008 5:22 PM
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The Antichrist will have great charisma & speaking ability, "a mouth speaking great things".
The Antichrist will rise to power on a wave of world euphoria, as he temporarily saves the world from its desperate economic, military & political problems with a brilliant 7-year plan for world peace, economic stability & religious freedom.
Posted by: Paul Baldwin | June 1, 2008 5:09 PM
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Dear Arminius writes:
"Please stop sweeping me into the same cesspool with the fundies."
Not just the fundies, but many moderates and conservative Xians as well.
In reading many of your latest posts wherein you discount the OT as fable, throw out most of the NT and embrace the Gospels and only a couple of other books in the canon, I'm wondering if rather than you being upset that you're being lumped in when I use the generic term "Xians" that things might be a lot easier if you were to come up with a new moniker for your beliefs besides calling yourself a Xian. Perhaps, "Gospelist" would be more accurate?
After all, I don't find that the term "atheist" really describes my lack of beliefs. I prefer to call myself an "anti-theist," which explains much of the tenor of my posts here.
All I can say, Arminius, is that I use the words religionist, Christian etc in their generic sense. I don't differentiate by sect, nor do I separate the laity from the clergy, neither do I distinguish a person's allegiance to Rome v Canterbury. If you find being called a Xian offensive for the fact that fundies are also Xians, then I suggest finding that new moniker for yourself.
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 1, 2008 4:57 PM
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Mr Mark,
You unfortunately said: "Self loathing of oneself and of humanity itself is part and parcel to the Xian view of life."
Horse poop, you know me better than that. Please stop sweeping me into the same cesspool with the fundies.
Arminius
Posted by: Arminius | June 1, 2008 4:44 PM
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MHR writes:
"Aside from the hate-whitey aspect of Pfleger's performance, which was bad enough and which Obama most certainly must have been aware of, I was struck by the condescension of the priest's minstrel show attitude."
Why would anyone we surprised by the "hate whitey" aspect of Pfleger's performance?
Self loathing of oneself and of humanity itself is part and parcel to the Xian view of life. There are numerous discussions going on in this thread right now dealing with the "fall of man."
Pfleger is a Xian, so he self-loathes on the basis that he is a "fallen human." In addition, he self-loathes on the basis that he is white, ergo, the hate-whitey rhetoric.
For the clergy, this is stock-in-trade. Seen in the light of what religion usually proposes, the only reprehensible part of the performance was the minstrel show aspect, which - as others have pointed out - was on-par with Hillary's pandering and digusting "I ain't in no ways tired" crapola from earlier in the campaign. The only difference is that Hillary was the one offering her own minstrel show, while Obama had nothing to do with the sorry show that Pfleger put on the other day.
Posted by: Mr Mark | June 1, 2008 3:48 PM
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PLEASE GET IT RIGHT ! ! A Pastor is ".. an official person within a Protestant group of people, and related to the positions of priest or bishop within the Anglican, Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches."
That is, a PRIEST is NOT a Pastor and vice-versa.
You guys, of everyone writing about this, should know the difference.
Posted by: Chuck Swanson | June 1, 2008 3:38 PM
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But maybe what the priest said was TRUE? Obviously some truths cannot be stated?
Posted by: Fred | June 1, 2008 3:15 PM
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But maybe what the priest said was TRUE? Obviously some truths cannot be stated?
Posted by: Fred | June 1, 2008 3:14 PM
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I recall sometime ago that a Senator claimed that the primary difference between himself and his opponent was that in terms of exercising superior judgment, "I got it right the first time."
Of course, he was referring to the war in Iraq and Clinton's vote. Now we see evidence that progress is finally made in Iraq, and perhaps a turning point may come.
The fallacy in Obama's argument and how the media portrays the public sentiment on the war is that they bunch together the concept of "Was this war a bad war to begin with?" and "Was this a poorly executed war?"
In spite of all the accusations of Bush "selling the war" (and thanks to a new book by his own press secretary), if the US forces had marched into Bagdad, removed Saddam, stabilized the nation, and then walked out, chances are very good that a majority of Americans would say that going into Iraq was a good decision.
Thus, Mr. Obama's biggest selling point--of his superior judgment--becomes irrelevant in the campaign. If, by October, the situation in Iraq becomes stable, the war will become a non-issue in the general election.
By then, only his words will come back to haunt him--"I got it right the first time"--since he really didn't get it right the first time by staying associated with a Church that seems to be a breeding ground for quite some spirited nastiness. If in two short months and with public attention focused on the church, we find so much hatred and mockery of people the pulpit does not like, what of the twenty-some years during which Mr. Obama sat with the congregation?
Superior judgment? No way.
Posted by: Joseph | June 1, 2008 2:47 PM
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Are you serious?
Nobody is paying any attention to this. People have already made up their minds who they are going to vote for and what some guy in a church says doesn't have anything to do with Iraq or $4 gas.
-Wexler
Posted by: William W. Wexler | June 1, 2008 1:59 PM
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Truly, acknowledging your spiritual beliefs in politics is a two-edges sword:
On the one hand, you might get a few more right-wing religious nut votes;
On the other hand, those right wing nuts will sink your campaign with most of the other, intelligent, voters.
I think Americans are fed up with religion in the White House.
Barack, send your religious beliefs back to the private sphere.
We, the voters, want to know how YOU are going to fix the country, not how you're going to ask God to do it.
Posted by: Billcarr | June 1, 2008 1:52 PM
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You mention the "4" men jumping up & down having a great deal of fun behind the Reverend as he makes fun of Hillary's crying like it is perhaps important, but you don't talk about it any more. I think it's very relevant. Those men are indeed having a great deal of fun, they're probably there in church to be having fun. Church is a form of entertainment. Preachers who don't entertain don't last long.
Posted by: rhinehaj | June 1, 2008 1:52 PM
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What puzzles me the most about this latest
publicity nightmare, is why was a Catholic
priest preaching in this church in the
first place ?
Secondly, if clergy are going to get involved
in politics and support a candidate, then
we need to pull their 501-3c status now !
No slap on the wrist, no excuses, just
pull the non-profit status now !!!!
As far as the good Father is concerned, I
would put him on a six month sabbitical and
give him some time to decide what his true
calling is - hate mongor or cleric !
Posted by: Mikel | June 1, 2008 1:47 PM
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I think that these ministers are out to purposely sabotage Obama's campaign. If they are his "friends" and had a hidden agenda then surely they would keep quiet until he's in the White House that way they could then have enough power to destroy the country. If anything they are jealous because they have not gained the degree of popularity Obama has. And I don't know if everyone is missing it, but Obama is not ALL black.
Posted by: me | June 1, 2008 1:26 PM
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Wake up, people! When are you going to realize that all these self-proclaimed holy men and women are con artists? ANYONE who claims to speak for god is a phony, and a lot of them are pretty slimy characters.
Religion is half fairy tales (angels and devils, stories about people being swallowed by whales, an old man who lives in the sky and watches sparrows) and half wishful thinking ("I'm gonna live forever"). Organized religion is institutionalized fraud.
A god who had anything to say worth listening to would speak for himself.
Posted by: donnolo | June 1, 2008 12:50 PM
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Natalie wrote:"Why should Barack Obama be held accountable for the hateful rantings of obviously disturbed pastors, who should be preaching the gospel and staying far away from preaching about politics? For this reason, politics and religion should not ever mix."
Obama is held accountable because HE made his participation in the church part of his politics, he insisted we know that he went to church, which church he belonged to, and how much church meant to his politics and outlook. Had HE been willing to leave religion out of his political toolkit, who'd care about Wright and Pfleger, et al?
No one. He's not, like Huckabee, a pastor - he's just a guy who found an activist job in Chicago with some churches, and then turned that into a high-profile low-accomplishment career.
That's why we care about what his moral and spiritual advisors have to say.
Posted by: Practica | June 1, 2008 12:03 PM
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Aside from the hate-whitey aspect of Pfleger's performance, which was bad enough and which Obama most certainly must have been aware of, I was struck by the condescension of the priest's minstrel show attitude. He adopted a black accent (much as Ms. Clinton did during the campaign) and his schtick included playing to the worst racist attitudes of his black congregation who reacted as if they watching a vaudeville comedy act.
What exactly is it about Chicago that causes people to act like Wright, Moss, Meek and Wright? And Obama. Democrats have the unmitigated gall to call the opposition party racist- If they need to see what racists look like Democrats need only look in the mirror.
Posted by: mhr | June 1, 2008 11:57 AM
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Guillermo Dominguez wrote:
Why is the media making the race black and white as if the Hispanics dont exist. The Liberal demos supporting Obama are going to get a real suprise in Nov. The political parties cannot hide the immigration issuse forever , the tacos are here to stay. G.
--------
Because Guillermo, Hispanics are written off to Hillary because of the inherent prejudice in your culture against darker skin. Don't tell me it isn't. I have lived in Mexico for four years and have seen it first hand.
Posted by: Roy | June 1, 2008 9:59 AM
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Now that Obama has resigned from the CHICAGO TRINITY CHURCH OF UNITED JUMPING-UP-AND-DOWN-CHEERING BLACK RACISTS, maybe he will have a chance overcoming the continued swift-boating by Limberger, Novak, Will, Krauthammer and the Irish Catholic bigots on "fair and balanced" Faux News.
Posted by: Roy | June 1, 2008 9:51 AM
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Why is it that the media can find time to go sit in someone's church and look for 'controversy' but can't find time to look into real issues? Iraq, the gas prices, the foreclosure mess, high dropout rates, so many more important issues to discuss and this is the nonsense we are fed day after day. We are a country of idiots being led by a media ship of fools.
Posted by: MrsJones | June 1, 2008 9:42 AM
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Why should Barack Obama be held accountable for the hateful rantings of obviously disturbed pastors, who should be preaching the gospel and staying far away from preaching about politics? For this reason, politics and religion should not ever mix.
Posted by: Natalie | June 1, 2008 9:31 AM
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Religion has become a plague on the politics of this country.
Posted by: Pat O'Leary | June 1, 2008 8:47 AM
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After losing members in the USA due to birth control & Scandal the Catholic church is now making a comeback due to the millions of Illegal Aliens pouring across our borders. Its an ideal plan, let the Catholics Latinos pour across our open borders and Breed like Rabbits while forcing American tax payers to pay an average of 20k per year for each one to provide education, medical care and welfare for them. That is why the Pope spoke about taking care of Immigrants and wants blanket amnesty for them and why all Catholic Churches are for breaking the law and encourage & protecting Illegal Aliens and open Borders! When the next president gives the 20 to 30 million mostly uneducated Illegal Aliens citizenship alone with chain migration there will be 100,s of millions of new fast breeding, educating hating, criminally inclined , welfare loving Catholic Latino citizens and the Nation will soon join the Third World as they breed us into poverty, like they have Mexico and Latin American. But the Democrat Politicians will have the welfare votes and further their Socialist Agenda, the Republican Politicians an unlimited supply of nearly slave labor for their Pay Masters in the Corporations and Businesses and the Church more millions of Catholics to preach their dogma, past the collection plate, and lots of children for the priests to play with. The only losers are current American Citizens & their progeny and either Party or the Catholic church gives a damn about them!
Posted by: Black Saint | June 1, 2008 8:29 AM
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The problem Obama has with white uneducated voters is they never had the fine points of race and racism explained to them by learned professors. Not having a higher education to reply upon they must substitute common sense.
1.They have a very hard time understanding how anyone with any intelligence can sit in a Church for 20 years and support ones friend and mentor week after week, month after month, year after year with his money, family and attendance while listening to Hate American, Hate whites, Hate every thing rants, (with the exception of Blacks and Muslins) and still insist that he has not endorsed and does not believe in the Message, and he has not endorsed and does not believe in the MESSENGER.
2.They do not understand why believing in God, lovering this Nation, supporting the second Amendment, supporting Article IV Section IV of our Constitution against Invasion, and supporting the rule of Law, apparently believing in our Constitution and the Rule of Law, makes them intelligibly inferior, bitter and the object of scorn and ridicule by Obama and his Cult followers!
Posted by: Black Saint | June 1, 2008 8:17 AM
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In effect Fox News Network has bombed another African American Church, which was a rite of passage for racists in the American south in the 60's. Rev. Wright was right when he said that it was an attack on all black churches. Unfortunately, African American pastors are not like those of the 60's who expressed outrage from injustice at every level. Now the black pastor is concerned about how big his church is and how much money he can bring in. But, nevertheless, the attack on Trinity is the same. In addition Fox News Network and the media at large, CNN, MSNBC are launching attack on freedom of speech, they are now saying what should and should not be said in the sanctuary of all places.
Yet, they fail to ask relevant questions of those in power just as McClellan has indicated in his round on network talks about how America invade Iraq with a brush off of "so what" by the Republicans.
Posted by: Linda in Houston | June 1, 2008 8:12 AM
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Obama's association with yet another white-bashing, egotistical narcissist preacher is disquieting, to say the least. But I'm not convinced that either Pfleger or Obama's association with him is all that unique, measured against the broader framework of America's religious leaders and their ties to politicians. What is unique to most Americans--especially white--is to be the target of such debased demagoguery. But is it all that different from what white Christians have been hearing in their pulpits on subjects dear to the heart of their pastors? I don't think so.
The obvious comparison is with Rev. Hagee and his association with John McCain. Is Pfleger's preaching to the choir about the need for the current generation of whites to do penance for the sins of their fathers and his pathetic burlesque of Hillary really worse than Hagee saying that Hitler and the holocaust were instruments of God's divine will? Or Rod Parsley's depiction of Islam as inherently violent? I don't think so. Not by a long shot.
Are the Reverends Wright and Pfleger really that different than Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and any number of so-called mainstream pastors who rail against abortion, homosexuality, and the teaching of evolution? I don't think so.
What we are simply witnessing here, it seems to me, is a growing awareness of the general malaise of religion in America and a growing recognition of the uncertainty about its proper role in the political sphere. Mainstream Protestant pastors, McCain's pastors, Obama's pastors--they are separated by a very small space on a narrow spectrum. The only unique thing is that this year's presidential race has pulled back the rock and thrown light on an existing phenomena. Many Americans for the first time are viewing religion more critically, and they are not liking what they see.
It's like the scene at the end of a vampire movie, when the bright rays of the rising sun shine upon the night-rampaging vampire, turning it to smoke and ashes.
Posted by: GeorgiaSon | June 1, 2008 8:04 AM
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Jesus, when will we get religion out of politics?
Posted by: Maus | June 1, 2008 6:59 AM
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Guys wake up. Look and behold. The miracle is happening.
A black man who will become your next President.
But look closer he is not really black.
He is half white.
I look at his personal accomplishments as a young man, see how God has guided his path: Columbia University/Harvard University/Professor of Constitutional law at University of Chicago.
But what impresses me the most: He is of the same complexion that Jesus was:
I feel it in my bones that he is the Messiah.
Friends its time to put aside your arrogance for a a second and look at the man. Such events are rare in human History. Don't miss your chance at redemption for OBAMA is the 2nd coming of JESUS.
Posted by: Tarik | June 1, 2008 4:10 AM
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Obamarama says that there is a "stylistic and cultural" gap between him and his "church." Gimme a break! What is this, elitist, nuanced mumbo-jumbo or what?
For 20 years this dodo was going to Trinity "church" and now he finds that there is a "stylistic and cultural" gap! This guy is a real phony.
Obviously, he has been putting up with racial hatred spewed by his "rev." for 20 years but now Obama is leaving them because of it. But he doesn't call it that, he calls it a "stylistic and cultural" gap! Maybe sometime in the future he will say something like "It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is.
All phonies are alike.
PS Maybe when he says that there is a "stylistic and cultural" gap between his almighty self and the Trinity "church" he may be saying that the congregation at Trinity is uncouth, loud and unsavory and not to his taste anymore.
He's thrown the Trinity "church" congregation under the bus just like he did with his nice little granny.
Posted by: zqll | June 1, 2008 4:04 AM
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OBAMA IS THE 2ND COMING OF JESUS.
Posted by: Tarik | June 1, 2008 3:40 AM
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Why is the media making the race black and white as if the Hispanics dont exist. The Liberal demos supporting Obama are going to get a real suprise in Nov. The political parties cannot hide the immigration issuse forever , the tacos are here to stay. G.
Posted by: Guillermo Dominguez | June 1, 2008 1:25 AM
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CRYOS: Thank you for a sane, intellectually honest criticism. If the Democrats nominate Obama, I look forward to an elevated, substantive debate between him and John McCain. I believe both of them are honorable men, and I believe there is time to consider issues such as those you mentioned.
My main concern is that we find some way to break free of this poisonous partisan crucible so many voters seem to have fallen into. I can only report that I started out entirely open to the possibility that I might support Hillary Clinton, only to discover the thing I remember so vividly from 1993, when she attempted to dictate socialist health care legislation to the nation. I believe the poison in this campaign has originated with her, and I watched it happen as she began to realize that Obama had struck a chord with so many voters. The veneer of the consensus builder fell away rather quickly, and the same reptilian character I sensed 15 years ago enunciated itself.
This country is in desperate trouble. We have evolved a standard of living that we cannot sustain, given the numbers of people in the world who are willing to work much harder than we are, and be satisfied with much less. And yet our politicians keep the ponzi scheme going by liquidating the principal assets of this country, all the while telling voters we're still the same old super-power we used to be. The fact is, we're not.
Meanwhile, the critical resource that all free economies require is drying up. What is that resource? Opportunity. When the owners of capital use it to monopolize the opportunity for new people to participate as entrepreneurs and equity creators, they snuff out the fundamental dynamic which unleashes human productivity. The owners of the financial markets and the owners of the oil infrastructure are driven by greed, and as they succeed in satisfying that greed, they create a constituency for terrorism. By treating human beings as a commodity to be exploited, they all but guarantee the destruction of the very system that enabled them to succeed.
The disasters evolving in third-world countries are obvious examples. But a more cogent example may be found here at home: our banks have been so successful at getting people addicted to credit, that the core values relating to money, and the notion that people should live within their means has been all but destroyed. This sub-prime mortgage crisis was precipitated by greedy self-interested money managers who knew very well that the funds they were risking were only partially covered by private reserves, and that the eventual bill for their recklessness would be paid by further dilution of the US dollar. And their co-conspirators in Congress and the Executive branch fell right in line, bailing them out when the house of cards was about to collapse.
So while you may be right that Obama has some connections with those folks, I seriously doubt he is wired in as tightly as John McCain. I am hoping that the nature of the mandate Obama gets (if he gets it) will be such that both sides of this corrupt system will be forced to stand down from their traditional stalemate positions, and admit that fundamental re-tooling of the way we operate as a country is required.
Those who want to shout Obama down by these absurd ravings about who he's friends with and his secret radical agenda, have the right to do so. But if they take the time to think critically about where we stand at this moment as a nation, they might realize that we can't afford another 4 years of partisan warfare, and whichever candidate is elected, it will be in all our vital interests to work very hard to find consensus. The tone and temperament of most who are commenting in this forum convinces me that there's not much chance of that happening. But I figured I'd make a pitch for it anyway.
Posted by: ted in pdx | May 31, 2008 11:44 PM
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Words like racism, and racist, are thrown around like confetti. But few people really know what those words really mean, or their true purpose. But a small point like that doesn't stop people, for what better predication could there be than serving the ego, the flight of thought, and tongue, that makes the speed of light slow of foot?
Posted by: DofG | May 31, 2008 11:42 PM
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WE WISH TO GO ON RECORD AND STATE THAT WE SUPPORT BARACK OBAMA. He is our lord and savior, and he shall deliver the world from sin.
Signed,
Louis “racist and proud of it” Farrakhan
The Nation of Islam
Fidel Castro
Raul Castro
Hamas
The New Black Panther Party
Rev. “GD America” Wright
William "the bomb" Ayers
Raila “the butcher” Odinga
Daniel Ortega
Al “racial ambulance chaser” Sharpton
Tony “the indicted one” Rezko
Father Pfleger
Oprah “I used to go to Obama’s church but got out just in time” Winfrey
And various other racists, terrorists, dictators and indicted individuals.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 9:51 PM
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Seriously, how stupid must one be if one fails to recognize that the members of TUCC are racist? How stupid must one be if one believes that Barack Obama failed to notice this support of hateful rhetoric (UNChristian rhetoric, not Bible-based sermons) for the past 20 years? How stupid must one be if one thinks that Barack Obama doesn't actual believe as the pastor and parishioners of TUCC believe? How stupid must one be if one thinks that Barack Obama's condemnation of these ideas and this rhetoric (long after the fact in most instances) is NOT merely politically expedient? This is a dangerous man. The less political. legislative, executive or judicial power he has, the better.
Posted by: Dee | May 31, 2008 7:51 PM
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Obama has developed a strategy to con Hillary supporters into voting for him using various ploys, including: 1. The "Supreme Court" card, i.e. if Obama doesn't win, McCain will appoint conservative judges. 2. The "Roe v. Wade" card, i.e. if Obama doesn't win, the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade. 3. The "race card,", i.e. if you are against Obama, then you are a racist. 4. The "real Democrat" card, i.e. "real Democrats" will vote for the Democratic nominee whether they like him or not. 5. The "Hillary would want you to vote for Obama" card, which is self-explanatory.
Obama, his supporters, the DNC, the party elite, and the mainstream media have conspired to marginalize the millions of Democrats who have voted for Hillary, and they will now be using every trick in the book to "bring the party together" to further their ruthless ambitions. They will want you to forget all about the months of biased press, the biased party elite, the insults, and the race-cards. They will want you to forget that the Democratic Party now is the party that stands for disenfranchisement and the rationalization of racism. They will use any method to persuade you to vote for the man who they have preordained as the Democratic nominee. DON'T FALL FOR IT!
Whether you write-in Hillary, if possible, vote for John McCain, or sit out the election, remember that your action or inaction could result in the election of the inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless and divisive Obama. NOTE: PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COPY AND PASTE THIS COMMENT ONTO ANY BLOG OF YOUR CHOICE. WE NEED TO GET THE WORD OUT.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 31, 2008 7:44 PM
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"It might interest some here to know that Obama has now left his church in Chicago."
too little... too late...
OBamaBoozled himself...
Posted by: more 2 the story | May 31, 2008 7:13 PM
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@ Arminius,
It is FREE SPEECH that is ruling on this blog. it is funny how that knife can cut both ways, huh?
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 7:13 PM
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It might interest some here to know that Obama has now left his church in Chicago.
This, of course, will not satisfy the hyenas snarling after Obama. Apparently, bigots rule on this blog.
Posted by: Arminius | May 31, 2008 6:47 PM
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NEWSFLASH!!!!!
Obama has resigned from the Trinity Church! I guess the bath water was getting too hot for him so he bailed. It only took him TWENTY YEARS to get a clue. How can we elect a person President of the United States that is this slow to make a good decision. Now I could be cynical and say he left the church for political reasons but I know you Obamabots would never believe it. Or maybe he has the black vote wrapped up so he can now throw his entire church of past 20 years under the bus along with Wright, Pfleger and his grandmother. This guy is more transparent than Tiffany crystal. Can he really think this will make the Pastor Disaster go away or make him electable in one fell swoop? This entire episode is laughable and Saturday Night Live can have a field day with it.
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 6:45 PM
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Just a few statements from James Cone, one of the founders of Obama's religion; black liberation theology.
Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.”
"All white men are responsible for white oppression. It is much too easy to say, "Racism is not my fault," or "I am not responsible for the country's inhumanity to the black man...But insofar as white do-gooders tolerate and sponsor racism in their educational institutions, their political, economic and social structures, their churches, and in every other aspect of American life, they are directly responsible for racism...Racism is possible because whites are indifferent to suffering and patient with cruelty."
The demonic forces of racism are real for the black man. Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man "the devil." The white structure of this American society, personified in every racist, must be at least part of what the New Testament meant by the demonic forces."
YES, OBAMA, THE GREAT UNITER. WHAT A JOKE.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 6:12 PM
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The question should not be "when will folks question this man's claims as being an uniter" (paraphrased). Rather, it should be "who has the political will and spine to speak up forcefully for the separation of church and state?" After all, that doctrine is the crown jewel of American democracy.
A follow-up question of import is "why aren't the seminaries wherein these rogue pastors/priests are trained speaking out forcefully against these pulpit antics?"
As an agnostic I have to hold my nose everytime one of these cult leaders speaks at all, especially about politics. Whatever happened to their care and feeding of souls?
Sen. Barack Obama is a uniter. SEn. Clinton and her spouse are probabl two of the three (GW Bush being the 3rd) most divisive political figures of our times. Totally selfish; their carnival cancers spread wherever the two set up shop.
Posted by: Holly Hilden | May 31, 2008 6:06 PM
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Obama has just resigned from the Church!!!
CNN Special Report
GOOD FOR HIM; ONLY 20 YEARS TOO LATE.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 6:06 PM
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nlynnc wrote:
It seems that the racial divide in America is growing wider and more difficult to bridge. It also seems that chasm is being created by members of all races.
----
Unfortunately, there is still racism in the US. Ask yourself if you want a president like Obama who is an apologist for afro-racism a la Jeremiah Wright or Michael Pfleger. Obama has been friends with these two race-baiters (and America-bashers) for twenty years and never has spoken out against their divisive hate speech.
Barack Obama is not the right person to lead a multi-ethnic country like the US.
Posted by: mehuwss | May 31, 2008 5:58 PM
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A couple of thoughts from a Black Agnostic:
First: Father Pfleger's statements weren't racist or sexist, just unnecessarily denigrating. The remarks are racially divisive and do absolutely nothing to help America progress in racial relations. Which in and of itself makes me wonder why a representative of a religion which supposedly preaches love and compassion would stoop to express such low class mocking remarks. It also makes me wonder what comfort the congregation would get from them.
Second: The problems that Obama and McCain have had with all the pastors, (Wright, Hagee, Pfleger, Parsely etc.), show the folly of mixing politics with religion by requiring that all presidential condidates pass some kind of religion/faith litmus test. JFK had to prove that his Catholicism would not influence his presidency, now it's the other way around. You can't be a viable candidate unless you can demonstrate that "Jesus is with you all the time". How'd that "prayerful decision making" work out with born again Dubya? We need to keep religion out of politics, and let it remain a personal thing between the candidate and his or her God.
Third: You should be able to listen to anything sane, or insane, as long as you can think for yourself. Obama has had 46 years of living, and it's quite clear that no matter what he's listened to, or heard, he chooses a more enlightened approach to race relations in his dealings with people. You have to believe in inclusion to practice it like he has. That's the only thing that counts.
Posted by: Franklyn Ajaye | May 31, 2008 5:55 PM
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@ lostintranslation,
You seem to want to gloss over the real reason the Pfleger and Wright videos are all the rage on You tube and the media. It is because they were recorded in the very church Obama is CURRENTLY a member of and HAS BEEN a member of for TWENTY YEARS. I know that you hearing this is like Superman receiving a kryptonite enema but you need to face the facts of the matter. Being a member of Trinity Church is DESTROYING his credibility with whites every passing day. Being a member of that church goes against the grain of EVERYTHING he claims to be as a candidate and a human being. It is making him RADIOACTIVE for the general election. You and the other Obamabots have been programmed to ignore the truth and reality but every day more and more people are seeing Obama for what he really is. He is a phoney, manufactured, lying, manipulative, typical far left liberal politician trying to pass himself off as a uniter and common man that has all the answer for everyone's problems. His BS just isn't going to fly in the general election and there will be a continual string of stories in the press to remind us of this until November. When the public looks at McCain residing near the middle politically, and Obama at the far left wacko liberal fringe the decision to vote for McCain won't be a hard one for Republicans, independents and large number of center leaning Democrats. Obama without a teleprompter tell him what to say is an absolute disaster. He stammers, stutters and say ummmm repeatedly and outright lies when having to think, and speak, on the fly or off the cuff. McCain is going to clean his clock in the debates if he doesn't get a grip on these glaring oratory flaws of his.
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 5:47 PM
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It is interesting to note that thirty years ago, a candidate such as Obama would not have survived through the primary(s) because of issues such as the TUCC scandal. In the way of further explanation, I submit the following:
* * *
For over twenty years Barack Obama has been a member of Trinity United Church of Christ.
* * *
Trinity United Church of Christ says that their doctrine is based upon black liberation theology, as demonstrated by the statement below which appears on TUCC’s official website:
“The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized [black] liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.” http://www.tucc.org/talking_po... * * *
Black liberation theology consists of theology that many, if not most, would consider to be heretical and racist, as demonstrated by James Cone’s own book, Black Power and Black Theology:
* * *
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love." Cone, James H., A Black Theology of Liberation, (Orbis Books: 1990) ISBN-10: 0883446855 p. 27
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 5:29 PM
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Well, you sure got this wrong. "Disater"? "Going to be a long weekend for the Obama people?" "Most importantly, what will be the fallout for the Obama campaign?"
I hope you are relieved, not just embarrassed, to see that the American people are much wiser than you seemed to realize. Sure, some people who were not supporting Obama to begin with are trying to blow this one up. But most people understand clearly that if we are going to start watching youtube videos of everything that every supporter of one of the candidates says everywhere we are going to waste a lot of time and be no closer to choosing the right president.
Posted by: lostintranslation | May 31, 2008 5:27 PM
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@ Doctor Al,
The rest of the country is far from the same as the South side of Chicago. Just look at the voting trends of whites in the primaries since the Pastor Disaster and Bittergate hit with a bang and you will see the damage this has done to Obama. There is more to come too. The South Side made him and it will also be the root of his demise. His "new" kind of politics isn't "new" at all. It is the same old underhanded, lying, unethical, illegal and hypocritical politics that thrives in Chicago. Obama can't tell us the truth about his past and beliefs because in reality he is so far to the left and racist that the rest of the country would send him packing in a minute. The mirage he has put up is fading fast and there is absolutely nothing behind it to take its place but the truth and that just won't do for the rest of this country.
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 5:20 PM
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Obama and his supporters have purposefully played the race card for two reasons: (1) Against the Clintons in an attempt to destroy Bill Clintons legacy and his popularity with African Americans, thereby allowing Obama to more effectively run against Hillary; and (2) Against all others who might dare to criticize Obama in an attempt to squelch criticism and chill free speech. If Obama and the DNC get rid of Hillary Clinton, then the race card and other despicable Obama tactics will then be used against McCain and all of his supporters. If the debacle of Obama has taught us anything, it should be that this country needs to stand up to the "race card" tactics and racial double standards, and say once and for all, "ENOUGH."
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 5:20 PM
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Better hope John McCain doesn't underestimate Obama the way Hillary did. Too late she learned she's up against a South Side Chicago Democrat! Politics there ain't beanbag and they don't defer to white women. Remember, Obama called his grandmother the typical white woman...racist to the core. Did you notice that the catholic priest, who enjoyed playing with himself so much at Hillary's expense, seemed to have pretty much the exact same attitude about white women? Wonder where he got that impression.
Posted by: Doctor Al | May 31, 2008 4:52 PM
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Anonymous wrote:
Sen. Obama seems like such a good, smart man, it is very hard to understand how he could have spent 20 years learning, praying and attending service in an environment of hate. It makes me loose hope.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Obama isn't what he appears to be. He is a candidate manufactured out of whole cloth with no basis in reality. You can tell this when he embellishes his past like his uncle liberating Auschwitz, his mother and father meeting at Selma, etc. The truth is just to mundane and boring for him to tell us about. His life is rather unremarkable in many respects and he has had to be a user of people and organizations to fake his way to political power.
Compare Obama's past to McCain's and the difference is glaring. McCain downplays his life experiences while Obama embellishes and fabricates his past. Obama might be the most non-substantial candidate to ever win a major party's nomination for president. Geraldine Ferraro was right. If he wasn't black he wouldn't have had a chance this election cycle. People that have voted for him really voted for a mirage he placed in front of them. Many now know the mirage isn't real but his die hard supporters still think it is real. Once this election is down to him and McCain his mirage will all but disappear because he will not get the kid glove treatment he has come to expect during the primaries. Plus, there is plenty of other skeletons in his closet just clamoring to get out. Next week Rezco will be found guilty and that issue will hit the fan and further damage him. Yeah, Obama has a Teflon coating but remember what that coating looks like in a frying pan that has been used too much. It peels off, gets scratched and before long EVERYTHING sticks to it.
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 4:40 PM
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Agent 99 said:
watching the Obama fans support him regardless of what comes out about him,I realise how Bush was elected and re-elected.
Obama fans are the flip side of the coin,,, bush supporters are on the other side. BOth are fanatics
MY SENTIMENTS, EXACTLY. The insults, attacks and race cards thrown by the Obama camp and supporters is very reminiscent of the right wing nut jobs who supporter Bush in 2000 and 2004. Another curious similarity: The same mainstream media which protected and promoted Bush those years ago, is now protecting and promoting Obama. Makes one think . . .
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 4:26 PM
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watching the Obama fans support him regardless of what comes out about him,I realise how Bush was elected and re-elected.
Obama fans are the flip side of the coin,,, bush supporters are on the other side. BOth are fanatics
Posted by: agent99 | May 31, 2008 3:48 PM
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Sen. Obama seems like such a good, smart man, it is very hard to understand how he could have spent 20 years learning, praying and attending service in an environment of hate. It makes me loose hope.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 3:21 PM
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BODO: YEAH, OBAMA BARELY KNEW PFLEGER: Rev. Michael Pfleger, the left-leaning Chicago Catholic priest who ridiculed Hillary Rodham Clinton this week in a racially-charged speech from the pulpit of Barack Obama's church, has contributed to Obama's state Senate campaigns, backed his ill-fated run for Congress and stumped for him in Iowa.
In a Chicago Tribune story a year ago, Obama defended special budget earmarks for his district while he was a state legislator, including ones that went to programs associated with Pfleger's church. Pfleger gave Obama's campaigns $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced at least $100,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs. Obama's spokesman, Ben LaBolt, was unable to say when Obama last spoke to Pfleger. LaBolt said Pfleger stepped down from the Catholics for Obama committee a few weeks ago, but he could not say why.
He confirmed that Obama steered a $100,000 state grant in 2000 to a Pfleger-affiliated community program.
"Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, Obama says."
Last year, Pfleger invited the Rev. Louis Farrakhan to speak at his church, St. Sabina, which encompasses a large, inner city African American parish. Pfleger backed up Farrakhan in a 2006 controversy over some remarkable Farrakhan bile. Pfleger criticized a mass resignation of Jewish members on a state of Illinois hate crimes commission. Pfleger said "good riddance" to the people who had left the commission. "Leave, go ahead and go on out, we don't need that kind of a spirit or mentality and a narrowness on that kind of commission. I'm glad they're gone," Pfleger said.
Farrakhan said, "These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It's the wicked Jews, the false Jews that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality," and "Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government" over the war in Iraq.
Why in heavens' name was Obama supporting this guy? And putting him on his Catholic advisory council?
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 31, 2008 2:47 PM
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The Pastor said that America should pay for raping blacks !!! And no one has even commented about this ? How come Obama does not say anything on this point ?
Posted by: ash | May 31, 2008 2:39 PM
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I am more than amused by the Obama apologists who suggest that we should not consider any of his associations as relevant to his character and judgment. They say that since Obama himself did not spout the racist and anti-American remarks, we should not consider any such remarks, or any of his associations when deciding whether or not he is a suitable President. They say that we should only consider statement made by Obama himself; a man who is trying to convince us that he is the appropriate choice as the leader of our nation.
We're supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year "mentor and spiritual adviser." We're supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who, in a fiery sermon, claimed retired pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright was "lynched" by the media and compared the embattled pastor to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. government was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading the AIDS virus to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to ignore Obama's friend and patron of 17 years, the indicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama's equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama's long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.
Just how many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 1:39 PM
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What has this "disaster" got to do with Obama? Some stupid stranger Obama has never even met makes stupid remarks in a room that Obama used to visit.
I sure would not want to be blamed for all the stupid remarks strangers have made in rooms I used to visit.
But it shows that the Church should stay out of American politics.
Posted by: Bodo | May 31, 2008 1:04 PM
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Obama has been excellent at staying above the fray with his smugness. He allows his surrogates to do his dirty work. The bloggers are the worse. Not only do they vilify and demean Senator Clinton but all those who don't think Obama walks on water. Obama doesn't have to denounce what the priest said, after all he didn't say it. BUT what about Hillary Clinton and Bill, that is the MO. Double standard.
The one thing that the Bush people did was to down play his abilities. They constantly lowered expectations. The biggest problem Obama will have is those people who think he can walk on water. The Obama fans seem to think he will walk into Washington and @$#%&CHANGE!!!. The sad thing is, Obama seems to be buying into it as well.
Posted by: catmomtx | May 31, 2008 12:59 PM
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Fred asks:
"Mr. Mark: First, I am assuming that you are an Obama supporter; if you are not, I apologize for the mistake."
Fred -
I'm a lifelong Democrat who happens to be supporting Obama.
I will freely admit that I was more than skeptical about Obama when this campaign first started a year or so ago. I had real problems with him wearing his religion on his sleeve which I saw as pandering to the Xian vote. If you search back in the On Faith archives, I'm quite sure you'll find a post or 10 where I predicted that, "Obama's wearing religion on his sleeve is going to bite him in the ass." That said, the only thing I knew about him was that convention speech he gave back in 2004.
Fact is, as recently as this past January, I would have been more than happy with Hillary as our candidate, or Edwards, or Richardson or Chris Dodd. But over the course of the campaign, I've become quite impressed with Obama. When the time came to vote in the CA primary, it was between Obama and Clinton for me, and while I was a big fan of Bill's term in office, I have always had the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that the country needs a break from the two-family rule that we have been under since Poppy Bush became president back in 1988. Surely in a country of 300-million-plus people we can elect a president whose surname isn't bush or Clinton!
So, I looked at Obama, read his book, read his position papers and decided that he represented the best way forward for our Party and our country, and cast my ballot for him in the CA primary. I cast that vote fully believing that Hillary was going to win CA and that she would become the Party nominee. But at the ripe old age of 53, I wanted to cast a vote for hope and the future, rather than voting for what I believed would be the eventual political reality.
Since then, I've watched with interest and have warmed to Obama. I like the fact that he keeps things on an intellectual level that respects peoples' intelligence. I like the fact that he's kept his campaign pretty much above the typical political mud. I like the fact that he's been able to handle what's been thrown at him.
At the same time, my respect for Hillary and Bill has taken a real nose dive. It sickens me to see her playing by the Rove/Atwater play book. It sickens me to hear the things that are coming out of Bill Clinton's mouth these days. It saddens me to see the dark side of the Clintons on full display when their good side can do so much good. Their strategy since Obama gained the delegate lead has smacked of an over-reaching sense that Hillary is entitled to the nomination and the presidency, and if achieving that goal means taking Obama and the Party down with them, then, so be it.
When I contrast the Clintons' "win at any cost" strategy to Obama's "I'm only running for president this one time" pronouncements, well, I can tell you that it doesn't send me flying into the arms of the Clintons.
As I've said before, I'll happily cast my vote for Obama this November, and I mean to do that even if Hillary somehow steals the nomination from him. I have no problem writing in Obama's name on my ballot, but I can't vote for the brain-addled flip-flopper McCainbushhagee, I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary after what she and Bill have done during this campaign, and I'm not staying home.
Hope that gives you some perspective on whence I'm coming.
Posted by: Mr Mark | May 31, 2008 12:34 PM
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That is one crazy white boy. What's that got to do with the election?
Posted by: Michael | May 31, 2008 12:02 PM
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Chris Rock? How did Chris Rock figure into this?
Posted by: Sylvia Richardson | May 31, 2008 11:50 AM
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@ ThinkAboutIt
Liberals want to raise taxes, shut down more domestic oil drilling, scream like stuck pigs when building a refinery is suggested, don't want nuclear power plants built, thinks the government can decide our health care needs better than we can, think rich people got their money by stealing it, think they know how to better spend money than those people that actually earn it and the list goes on and on. If we think gas prices are high now just let liberals run a muck with the economy for a few years. I know you liberals want to make the economy out to be horrible but the reality is it isn't nearly as bad as you claim. It is the liberals' ethanol policy that is starving the world's poor and raising food prices here in the USA. It is the liberals' refusal to allow more domestic oil drilling and construction of domestic refineries that is causing gasoline prices to go sky high. The only thing liberals can conceive is a socialist society which has been shown time and again in numerous countries to be a horrible idea. Yeah, let's put you wacko left wingers in complete control of this country. That is a very scary thought. I remember the Carter years and can take a pass on a repeat of them.
All Obama offers us is a bunch of empty rhetoric. He has no idea how he will deliver 5% of what he is promising us. If he does deliver it then the country will be bankrupt and socialist. People will see this clearly as the November elections get closer. He has had a pass from the press in the primaries and Hillary has shown the Republicans just how to beat him into the ground in the general election. He will have hard questions to answer and will have to address his past associations and actions to have a hope of winning in November. His salad days are over and the real game begins once he seals the nomination up. You want to see how weak he is just look at his performance against Hillary since the Pastor Disaster and Bittergate hit the news. He can't close the deal and according to the biased press he should have put her away months ago. Why can't he?
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 11:20 AM
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@jim283
"If we let left wing liberals run this country for four years we won't have an economy worth much."
have you been in a cave the last 7 years while the Right Wing in power.
Starting an unnecessary $Trillion dollar War -- all on credit, while adding to the huge deficits by giving the wealthy tax cuts.
That makes the American economy strong?
You live a Right Wing fantasy.
Posted by: ThinkAboutIt | May 31, 2008 10:52 AM
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I like Obama, and even voted for him in the primary.
BUT -- I have been extremely disappointed in how he has allowed his followers to demean and defame Hillary Clinton on character issues.
The media doesn't cover it, but Obama was unquestionably the first to use character smears on Hillary -- He appeared on SNL in a skit last Halloween which proclaimed Hillary a "witch", while smiling smugly off to one side in the scene.
It's as if his followers (including the media) took this as a sign to start a long series of misogynist hate attacks against the Clintons that called her a racist, acid reflux, a ho (includes her supporters), and her daughter is of course a pimp.
I noticed the double standard. When the Clintons noted that Hillary was losing a primary due to about 80-90% of blacks voting for Obama, that was denounced as racist. When other commentaries noted Hillary won primaries where a majority of women voted for her, this was not pronounced as misogynist. Both are just actual statements of fact. Hillary is STILL being viciously attacked as a racist though.
It was as if the Far Left dug out the old "hate" Clinton vicious attack smears by the Far Right, dusted them off, and then framed them for their own "use".
Obama has not denounced this behavior. He insists he wants to bring all people together.
But words are cheap. Bush promised us he was a uniter not a divider too -- and we've seen that was a MAJOR lie!
I think Obama's proposed policies are still the best. I think he would be AWESOME as a leader in foreign affairs before the world.
But he needs to get make sure he appears to WALK THE TALK as a uniter, not divider of people.
He cannot maintain he is above the ugly tactics of some of his Left wing supporters -- by being silent on this matter if he wants his words about a uniter to ring true.
And sadly, he has not done this. He seems to feel he needs these far left hate mongers. I fear they may lose him the election, not win it!
And that would be very bad --
Obama is still the best candidate on the substantive issues -- he is losing though on the character issues...
and this country has a poor record of voting for a President -- based on "characgter" issues, not substantive ones!
The disaster who occupies the White House is a prime example of that.
Posted by: ThinkAboutIt | May 31, 2008 10:41 AM
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Let's have the election already, This is getting tiresome.
Posted by: forsythia1 | May 31, 2008 10:34 AM
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@ jim283
If we let left wing liberals run this country for four years we won't have an economy worth much. You rail against corporate America for what reason? Are you a socialist then?
Obama's past associations matter more than you want to admit. Character and judgment are important to most voters and he is sorely lacking in both. You Obamabots can keep ignoring his past as your own peril. Obama's base is going to be whittled down to the wacko far left liberals which means a landslide victory for McCain in November. People like you and Obama think they can hoodwink the general public into thinking he is a uniter and mainstream in his beliefs. Well it won't happen and the Pastor Disaster and Bittergate are just the first of many more eye opening moments for Obama and his supporters. BTW, shouldn't you be supporting Ralph Nader?
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 10:33 AM
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"It's the economy, stupid."
"Are you better off than you were four years ago?"
This infatuation with preachers is a side show.
The choice is indeed quite clear. Do you want continued corporate domination of American policy or do you want a President who listens to the people?
Posted by: jim283 | May 31, 2008 10:03 AM
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Senator Obama has been around these people for 20 years and now declares that he did not know they where so radical. What this leads us to is:
1- He is lying and we should not vote on him. 2- He is either stupid or naive and we should not vote on him.
Posted by: deanna paris | May 31, 2008 9:41 AM
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Sandra,
Many of us have suffered similar indignities with our posts. The On Faith filter, originally and properly designed to catch truly offensive language, has apparently gone bipolar, and will impound perfectly polite posts at random. The 'powers that be' at WaPo are aware of this, but have done nothing.
Posted by: Arminius | May 31, 2008 9:38 AM
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I just submitted a comment and was sent an error message saying I have submitted too many comments in a short period of time. Since this is the first comment I submitted I find that this is just par for the way the media has been manipulating the news. If I make a comment you don't agree with I can't get it posted evidently.
Posted by: Sandra | May 31, 2008 9:11 AM
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I think that the disclosure of this sort of sermon (and the Wright sermons) shed light on the long-ignored topic of the radical religious left. Some U.C.C. congregations, the Unitarian Universalists, some Episcopal congregations, and others share a radical political agenda that is disguised as "the social Gospel".
The groups are the mirror image of the radical religious right. Both groups hijack religion and remake it in the image of politics. The dirty little secret, though, is that true religion is no where to be found in either of these groups.
In terms of utter *weirdness*, though, I'd have to say the radical religious left trumps the radical religious right any day.
Posted by: Nicole | May 31, 2008 9:08 AM
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As I understand it, 5 States moved their primarys up this year, but only Michigan and Florida were
punished. The states were Iowa (causus), New Hamshire, and S. Carolina. These 3 states were not sanctioned. So, why Michigan? Could it be that it's a Blue collar state and Obama would have taken a loss? His name was on the ballot in Michigan, the agreement was that neither would campaign there and in Florida, which they both (Clinton) followed. But Obama chose to take his name off the Michigan Ballot, but leave it on the Florida ballot (he had a better chance of taking votes in Florida). I think the votes should be given as the elections results. He gets some votes and delegates from Florida and none from Michigan. Hillary gets all votes from Michigan.
And if they are going to punish Michigan and Florida then they better do the same to Iowa, N. Hampshire and S. Carolina. It seems the Democrates are trying to minipulate this election. I don't have to be a so-called media expert that was just dragged out from behind closed doors to tell me what I think and how I will come together with the Democrats in the general election. I will not stand behind a black racist, lying, speech stealing activist, surrounded by a wife who has just seen the light, and just became proud to be an American. I don't want her in the White House. And while you people Politicians and Media are at it, I think waiting till the General election to see if Obama is worthy to run, or has any other so-called racist, activist, criminal, domestic terrorist friends,I would rather find out before YOU not the people chose him to be the Democratic nominee. I think you better start worrying less about the Black vote and more about the WOMAN"S vote. I am a white female, Democrat from Michigan, and more of an expert on what is going on in this country than your 20+ and 30+ college educated brainwashed sheep. I will not vote for Obama, I will change parties, before I go along with what you people want America to believe is the nominee that they voted for.
Posted by: Sandy | May 31, 2008 9:07 AM
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Let's face it most, most people who devote their lives to the invisible ghost in the sky are little crazy to begin with. The world would be so much safer and saner if we simply maintain a total separation of church and state. And once a country decides religion has a place in politics, all aspirations for civilization get lost in the kerfuffle over which is the "right" religion. Who should be the Ayatollah for America? McCain? Hillary? Obama?
Posted by: Burford Holly | May 31, 2008 9:04 AM
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The decent and appropriate thing Senator Obama should have done was to personally express his 'outrage' at the remarks made toward Senator Clinton. Instead he says he is 'deeply disappointed' in what his former spiritual advisor said, and finds such remarks 'divisive' and further characterizes them as 'backward looking rhetoric.' Did he once mention Senator Clinton by name? No. For to do so, would humanize her, and make her less susceptible to continued hatred, disparity and demonization. He is not worthy to be elected President of the United States of America!
Posted by: mpwynn | May 31, 2008 8:09 AM
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This is the best that the USA can offer: Hillary, Obama, McCain? Obama's religion was not questioned earlier. Now it is truly ironic that we rejected perhaps the best candidate of them all, Mitt Romney, because of his religion! Being a clean cut, law abiding Mormon is unacceptable but if you attend Obama's raciest church for 20 years and are still a member of that church it is consider OK? I don't get it.
Posted by: Tim | May 31, 2008 7:52 AM
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This is the best that the USA can offer: Hillary, Obama, McCain? Obama's religion was not questioned earlier. Now it is truly ironic that we rejected perhaps the best candidate of them all, Mitt Romney, because of his religion! Being a clean cut, law abiding Mormon is unacceptable but if you attend Obama's raciest church for 20 years and are still a member of that church it is consider OK? I don't get it.
Posted by: Tim | May 31, 2008 7:51 AM
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Christian preachers earn a pretty good living spouting off with pious sounding advice, like "love thy neighbor" "don't be greedy" "do not kill" etc. Good advice, but hardly the sort of stuff you need divine inspiration for. Now I wonder how much the Holy Spirit had to do with these words by this Catholic priest? I guess the Holy Spirit is either pretty stupid (maybe due to the fact of being 2000 years behind in terms of human social evolution), or just does not want Obama to win, period.
Posted by: frank burns | May 31, 2008 7:37 AM
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Limberger, O'Reilly, Hannity et. al. no longer need to swift-boat Obama. Pfleger, Wright and the CHICAGO TRINITY CHURCH OF UNITED JUMPING-UP-AND-DOWN-CHEERING BLACK RACISTS have already done it.
Posted by: Roy | May 31, 2008 7:36 AM
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The next president of the United States is John McCain, at president, laughing his way famously to sleep, impacted no end, between you and I, by media Negro Barack Obama.
Posted by: Another Anonymous | May 31, 2008 5:33 AM
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Senator Obama is not the next President of the USA.
Father Pfleger is the least of Obama's problems.
However, we will be seeing alot of Father Pleger and Rev. Wright on Republican sponsored TV commercials this Sept. and Oct.
PS. The IRS needs to take a hard look at the tax exempt status of this (so called) church.
Posted by: Dave | May 31, 2008 5:26 AM
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Why is Obama still a member of Trinity Church? Obama has known Father Pfleger and Rev. Wright for over 20 years, they were after all Obama's "Spiritual Mentors". Members of a church usually support and attend a church of their choice because they agree with the statement of faith and beliefs of the church they attend. Obama speaks of change but after sitting in the pews of Trinity Church and listening to the words of people like Pfleger and Wright, what kind of change will Obama bring to the White House if he is President?
Posted by: chuck hasker | May 31, 2008 5:23 AM
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Anonymous writes:
The word "presently" means "soon," not "at present," as you used it.
Here I must step in. Anon has it right. This sort of thing is a disgrace.
Other infelicities to avoid:
"Famously"
"Impact" as a verb
"Between you and I"
Barack Obama, the Daley Democratic Machine, contempt for the workers of America, lack of concern for those without access to health care, misuse of campaign funds, etc. Calling people racists who oppose him.
Posted by: Another Anonymous | May 31, 2008 5:07 AM
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Berlinbauer, how dumb do you think we are? Your guilt by association BS isn't going to work. Anyone with a brain knows that Obama's been plagued with knuckleheads who think they're doing him favors by mouthing off, but Hillary's been steadily shooting herself in the foot with no help from anyone: "Get Barack a pillow" "hard working white people" "we all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June of '68". Obama has the sense to distance himself from people who do him these kinds of favors. Anyone who criticizes him for throwing these loudmouths under the bus (and who surely would even louder if he hadn't) should ask themselves how much better the war in Iraq would have gone if Bush had thrown Rumsfeld under the bus after Abu Ghraib. Isn't one of Bush's faults the fact that he has blind loyalty to underlings who tear America to shreds? I find it refreshing that we don't need to worry about that with Obama.
You, obviously, have no loyalty to the truth.
Posted by: Bill Tetzeli | May 31, 2008 4:38 AM
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This has nothing to do with Obama.
Posted by: Bernard W Scott | May 31, 2008 4:05 AM
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What if that preacher was black? I can smell some bigotery in his sermon. Is he Racist?
Posted by: son | May 31, 2008 3:34 AM
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Sentence One, Paragraph Six:
The word "presently" means "soon," not "at present," as you used it.
It's a common mistake among many, but not among "university scholars."
Please work to keep it rare.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 2:22 AM
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Lee, et al,
If nominated, the man will lose the election for the Democratic party.
Obiewan writes:
You want to know the surest way for Obama supporters to insure his loss to McCain in November? Claim that whites that don't vote for him are racists.
No question. Reminds me of the Dinkens-Giuliani election. Dinkens had blown it before the election, not only because he had created more racial division than New Yorkers had known in decades, but because he mismanaged the city, the budget, left us in a crisis. Still, I'm convinced that the constant accusations that those who voted for Giuliani were racists drove those who were still waivering into G's arms.
It's all very odd. Sometimes, I wonder if what all this media vomit is about is getting McCain elected.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 12:57 AM
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Mr. Mark: Oops, I forgot my name on the last post.
Posted by: Fred | May 31, 2008 12:57 AM
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Mr. Mark: First, I am assuming that you are an Obama supporter; if you are not, I apologize for the mistake.
Second, you have no idea how much I appreciate your willingness to admit a mistake. We all make them, however, you are one of the only Obama supporters I have encountered who will stand up like a man and honor truth over political expediency. I may not agree with you on some of the issues, but I certainly respect your integrity.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 12:52 AM
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Speaking as clearly as I can for myself, a dark-skinned black dike.
THIS MAN BARACK OBAMA IS A DANGEROUS SHILL. A WHITE NEGRO, THE KIND WHITE FOLKS LOVE, AND BLACK FOLKS ARE DECEIVED BY.
OBAMA DALEY THIRD GENERATION DEMOCRATIC MACHINE POLITICS
WHIT FOLKS,
DON'T EASY YOUR CONSCIENCES ON THE BACKS OF THE POOR.
Posted by: Lee | May 31, 2008 12:49 AM
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Dear Fred Jones -
I stand corrected by your post.
While the MSNBC TV coverage of that evening touted the 80% figure, the exit poll chart at their website gives a more-nuanced explanation that is more inline with your 20% figure.
Their chart shows that 8% of white voters in WVA felt that race was THE issue that influenced their voting, and that of those 8%, 86% cast their vote for Clinton.
The next group polled was people for whom race was a factor (but it was only one of many factors) and 14% of WVA voters fell into this category. 80% of them voted for Clinton.
21% of all white voters said race was a factor, and 84% of those voters went for Clinton (95% of WVA voters are white, BTW).
Obviously, my citing the 80% figure was a misreading of a figure buried in subsets of voters and voting patterns, not an 80% that represented the entire voting group in WVA.
So, yes, my last post was off the mark by a considerable amount, which is a shame because one doesn't really need an 80% figure to aver that racism was a major factor in the WVA primary. I'd say 21% is more than enough of a figure that we shouldn't be proud of.
Now, I'll head off to sleep and try to be more diligent in my research in the next round.
Posted by: Mr Mark | May 31, 2008 12:48 AM
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If you know somebody who says crazy things does that make you crazy? If people in your church make crude statements does that make you crude? It's time we stop the guilt by association routine and focus on the real issues confronting America: Economy, budget, jobs, Iraq, health care, environment. What McCain's or Obama's pastor said is completely irrelevant to the real problems of the world.
Posted by: Cyril Price | May 31, 2008 12:47 AM
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You state, in the final paragraph...
"I don’t doubt that the Senator’s aforementioned words of regret are sincere. I don’t doubt that he truly deplores this type of rhetoric. But how many more...".
My question is how many more remarks from VERY CLOSE FRIENDS/SPIRITUAL MENTORS will it take before you begin to doubt Obama really deplores this type of rhetoric? Do you think that just this once, this close personal friend, uttered this type of remark? Pfleger is an admirer of Farakan and Wright policies; anti-semetic, homophobic, and reverse racism. These are people in the close circle in Obama's personal life, not just someone from the campaign trail. Obama also garnered $225,000 in two grants for Pfleger's church while a state senator and Pfleger has donated generously to Obama's campaign.
What will it take for you to begin to doubt the finish on the candidate is not exactly sterling silver?
Posted by: Chinkapin | May 31, 2008 12:47 AM
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Whoops! Meant to write "classists."
Posted by: Lee | May 31, 2008 12:42 AM
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OBIEWAN SAID (OR QUOTED): As for McCain, I am no big fan of his but when I think of a Congress controlled by far left liberal wackos like Reid and Pelosi with a far left liberal like Obama as President it makes my skin crawl. The damage this combination can do to this country will take years to correct, if it can be corrected at all. Choosing between Obama and McCain isn't hard at all. McCain wins hands down even considering all the things about him I don't care for.
I BELIEVE THAT millions of Democrats will feel the same, if Obama is the nominee. Better a centrist Republican (tempered by a Democratic House and Senate), than an inexperienced, ruthless, deceptive and divisive Obama.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 31, 2008 12:40 AM
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@ Mr. Mark,
You want to know the surest way for Obama supporters to insure his loss to McCain in November? Claim that whites that don't vote for him are racists. How many states has Obama won a majority of the white vote since the Pastor Disaster and Bittergate hit the news? You act like Oregon was something big. What about North Carolina, Indiana, Ohio, Texas, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucky? You had better pull your head out of Obama's ass and see reality. He can't win the white vote but can get 90+% of the black vote. He is looking more and more like Jesse Jackson as every day passes and the Democrats are now stuck with him. He is lucky that Michigan and Florida aren't voting again because they would hand him his ass just like the other blue collar states have since the Pastor Disaster and Bittergate exploded.
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 12:40 AM
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HOW OBAMA HAS USED GEORGE BUSH/KARL ROVE TACTICS TO OBTAIN OVER $62,000,000 FOR HIS CAMPAIGN, SO FAR!:
The Washington Post -- April 11,2008 -- Obama gets plenty of money from big donors too: "Sen. Barack Obama credits his presidential campaign with creating a 'parallel public financing system' built on a wave of modest donations from homemakers and high school teachers. ... But those with wealth and power also have played a critical role in creating Obama's record-breaking fundraising machine, and their generosity has earned them a prominent voice in shaping his campaign. Seventy-nine 'bundlers,' five of them billionaires, have tapped their personal networks to raise at least $200,000 each. ... Donors who have given more than $200 account for about half of Obama's total haul, which stands at nearly $240 million.... The bundler list also sheds light on those who might seek to influence an Obama White House. They have helped the campaign recruit more than 27,000 donors to write checks for $2,300, the maximum allowed. Donors who have given more than $200 account for about half of Obama's total haul, which stands at nearly $240 million. The use of bundlers was perfected by George W. Bush, who in 2000 and 2004 set some fundraising records that Obama has shattered.
http://tinyurl.com/6dtgq6
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 31, 2008 12:34 AM
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Ah. What a pity. Allow me a moment to wipe the tears from my left eye.
Clinton has been victimized by YouTube, MSNBC, CNN, and WaPo, sensationalized, taken out of context etc.
Obama supporters would do well to stop whining and tell their candidate to do the same. The media has substituted sentiment and image for substance, and payback is a You-Know-What.
You have built a house of cards and it is falling around you. Failure to report on the Michelle Obama Daley Democratic Machine doesn't mean voters aren't aware of it. Only classicists, white, black, or indifferent were not offended by Obama's calling the working class "bitter," only one, relatively minor sign of his elitism. More significant is his equating mandatory, affordable healthcare with requiring that all homeless people own houses.
Then there are the "grassroots contributors," some of whom actually are grassroots contributors, ordinary working folk, whose money is used to pay college students, et al, to appear for his performances (New York Times).
So what have Barack and Michelle promised to do for media economic interests, that has all you moneyed folk all in a flurry?
Lee
Posted by: Lee | May 31, 2008 12:33 AM
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Ah. What a pity. Allow me a moment to wipe the tears from my left eye.
Clinton has been victimized by YouTube, MSNBC, CNN, and WaPo, sensationalized, taken out of context etc.
Obama supporters would do well to stop whining and tell their candidate to do the same. The media has substituted sentiment and image for substance, and payback is a You-Know-What.
You have built a house of cards and it is falling around you. Failure to report on the Michelle Obama Daley Democratic Machine doesn't mean voters aren't aware of it. Only classicists, white, black, or indifferent were not offended by Obama's calling the working class "bitter," only one, relatively minor sign of his elitism. More significant is his equating mandatory, affordable healthcare with requiring that all homeless people own houses.
Then there are the "grassroots contributors," some of whom actually are grassroots contributors, ordinary working folk, whose money is used to pay college students, et al, to appear for his performances (New York Times).
So what have Barack and Michelle promised to do for media economic interests, that has all you moneyed folk all in a flurry?
Lee
Posted by: Lee | May 31, 2008 12:31 AM
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ATHENA: YOU'RE A LITTLE OUT OF DATE ON THE "HILLARY'S PASTOR" ISSUE. That story has already been debunked. Nice try, though. From NBC News:
DOUGLAS COE IS NOT HILLARY’S PASTOR: NBC News Exclusive: Political ties to a secretive religious group -- Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 7:10 PM PT -- By Andrea Mitchell and Jim Popkin, NBC News --
For more than 50 years, the National Prayer Breakfast has been a Washington institution. Every president has attended the breakfast since Eisenhower, elbow-to-elbow with Democrats and Republicans alike. “I am really proud to carry on that tradition,” President Bush said at this year’s breakfast. “The people in this room come from many different walks of faith. Yet we share one clear conviction: We believe that the Almighty hears our prayers -- and answers those who seek Him.”
Besides the presidents and first ladies--Bill and Hillary Clinton attended in 1997--the one constant presence at the National Prayer Breakfast has been Douglas Coe. Although he’s not an ordained minister, the 79-year-old Coe is the most important religious leader you've never seen or heard.
But Doug Coe is well known to scores of senators in both parties--and many faiths--including Sam Brownback, Mike Enzi, Mark Pryor and Bill Nelson. They go to small weekly Senate prayer groups that Coe attends. Participants tell NBC News that so have senators John McCain, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, which those campaigns confirm. Asked about Coe’s influence on Hillary Clinton, people close to her told NBC News that she does not consider him one of her leading spiritual advisors. They added that Senator Clinton has never contributed to Coe’s group, is not a member of The Fellowship and has never heard the sermons obtained by NBC News. And, they said, Doug Coe is not Hillary Clinton’s minister.
ATHENA: Did you notice that Obama has also attended his prayer breakfasts. Kind of funny, huh?
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 31, 2008 12:28 AM
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@ Joe McNamara
The Republicans in Congress are getting exactly what they deserve. Many have proven themselves to be no better than the Democrats and deserve to be beaten this fall. It they are going to act like liberals then we might as well have liberals in their seats.
As for McCain, I am no big fan of his but when I think of a Congress controlled by far left liberal wackos like Reid and Pelosi with a far left liberal like Obama as President it makes my skin crawl. The damage this combination can do to this country will take years to correct, if it can be corrected at all. Choosing between Obama and McCain isn't hard at all. McCain wins hands down even considering all the things about him I don't care for.
Posted by: obiewan | May 31, 2008 12:25 AM
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Mr. Mark: Please get your facts straight. The percentage of voters who felt race was an issue in West Virginia was not 80%. From ABC News:
Racially motivated voting ran somewhat higher than elsewhere: Two in 10 whites said the race of the candidate was a factor in their vote, second only to Mississippi.
WELL, YOU WERE ONLY OFF BY ABOUT 60 PERCENTAGE POINTS.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 31, 2008 12:23 AM
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Hillary has her own pastor problem...
"There's a reason Hillary Clinton has remained relatively silent during the flap over intemperate remarks by Barack Obama's former pastor, Jeremiah Wright. When it comes to unsavory religious affiliations, she's a lot more vulnerable than Obama.
You can find all about it in a widely under-read article in the September 2007 issue of Mother Jones, in which Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet reported that "through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as "The "Fellowship," also known as The Family. But it won't be a secret much longer. Jeff Sharlet's shocking exposé The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power will be published in May."
"The Family's most visible activity is its blandly innocuous National Prayer Breakfast, held every February in Washington. But almost all its real work goes on behind the scenes--knitting together international networks of right-wing leaders, most of them ostensibly Christian. In the 1940s, The Family reached out to former and not-so-former Nazis, and its fascination with that exemplary leader, Adolf Hitler, has continued, along with ties to a whole bestiary of murderous thugs. As Sharlet reported in Harper's in 2003:
During the 1960s the Family forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most anti-Communist (and dictatorial) elements within Africa's postcolonial leadership. The Brazilian dictator General Costa e Silva, with Family support, was overseeing regular fellowship groups for Latin American leaders, while, in Indonesia, General Suharto (whose tally of several hundred thousand "Communists" killed marks him as one of the century's most murderous dictators) was presiding over a group of fifty Indonesian legislators. During the Reagan Administration the Family helped build friendships between the U.S. government and men such as Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, convicted by a Florida jury of the torture of thousands, and Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, himself an evangelical minister, who was linked to both the CIA and death squads before his own demise.
At the heart of The Family's American branch is a collection of powerful right-wing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe and Rick Santorum. They get to use The Family's spacious estate on the Potomac, The Cedars, which is maintained by young men in Family group homes and where meals are served by The Family's young women's group. And, at The Family's frequent prayer gatherings, they get powerful jolts of spiritual refreshment, tailored to the already powerful."
Much more good reading on HRC's rightwing facist "church" and their secret plan to establish a theocracy here:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/ehrenreich
Posted by: Athena | May 31, 2008 12:19 AM
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Obeiwan sez:
"Obama has lost the white vote to Hillary is most every state since then."
Let's cut to the chase and not mince words, shall we?
Hillary has won the votes of overt racists in W Virginia by playing to their racist prejudices.
Now, before you accuse me of smearing an entire state unjustly, let me point out that the exit polls from every source imaginable showed that over 80% of W Virginian voters in the Dem primary considered race to be THE major factor in casting their vote, a vote they CAST AGAINST a black man. That they ended up voting for a white woman was incidental to their voting against a black.
But on the VERY SAME NIGHT, whites in Oregon voted overwhelmingly for Obama.
The perspective your post misses is the fact - by their own admission - that voters in WVA voted against a black because he was black. Obama will never appeal to such racists. His strategy of writing off WVA because he knew he didn't stand a chance against blatant racists was both wise and prudent.
The truth is that Obama hasn't "lost" a single white vote to Hillary because those votes were Hillary's to begin with. Those people may not having been planning to vote for Hillary all along (Edwards or any other white would have done just fine), but they sure as hell were planning on NOT EVER voting for a black.
The only thing that changed was Hillary's playing of the white race card (coupled with her truly offensive remarks about assassination at a time when concern for Obama's safety is is real issue among many Americans), an action that no doubt gave a feeling of comfort to more than a few of these racists that Hillary was one of 'em after all.
No, I'm not in for a disappointment in November. Obama will be elected president, and this country will have the chance to begin its healing process, nay sayers and racists not withstanding.
Posted by: Mr Mark | May 31, 2008 12:19 AM
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To those who would argue that because Obama didn't say it, then why should that affect public opinion:
"Show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are"
To those who rationalize this demeaning slam against Hillary Clinton and all white people by pointing to other sources who "know" that Hillary felt entitled:
"Just because you say it again and again doesn't make it fact."
November 4, 2008: See how the mighty have fallen.
The rebuilding of the Democratic party begins immediately following Barry's concession phone call to President-elect John McCain. Movement Members need not apply.
Posted by: mkevinf | May 31, 2008 12:18 AM
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OBIEWAN SAID: Fred Jones, good post. You also forget to blame the liberal controlled main stream media for giving Obama a pass. They knew everything that has come to light recently well over a year ago and tried to sweep it under the rug. Hillary's big mistake was to not go at Obama hard last November. She tried to play nice and that just isn't her style.
THANK YOU, OBIEWAN. I have enjoyed your posts, as well. I agree that Hillary has shown great restraint regarding Obama. I knew about his racist black liberation theology months before the media picked up on it, and you can bet Hillary knew, also. If news about Obama's racist tendencies and racist associations had come out months earlier, he would merely be a bad memory by now.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 31, 2008 12:00 AM
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As a life-long Republican I thought we were in trouble when we started losing special elections in key "republican territories" in the Deep South. Now, I know we are in deep sh#t when all we can offer the American people is another storm-in-a-tea-cup empty, tired, fake and manufactured scandal about Obama Pastor Problem II. How stupid do we [republicans] think that American people are? How many times can we present to the American people silly distractions like "gay marriage amendment" or screech of words like "Liberal" as a substitute for policy? I will not vote for Obama or a democrat but I will be damned if I will leave my house to vote for another four years of hell by way of a McCain presidency. Enough is enough.
Posted by: Joe McNamara | May 30, 2008 11:58 PM
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I thought what the priest said was funny, and true.
Posted by: Chief Two Dogs | May 30, 2008 11:54 PM
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ATHENA SAID: Last I heard, it was the Trinity United Church of Christ, NOT the Church of Obama. Sen. Obama has no control over who is in the pulpit or what is said there. He wasn't even there - he was campaigning.
I AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY. Why should Obama bear any responsibility for his actions over the last 20 years regarding his relationship with Rev. Wright? After all, Rev. Wright is a great man with wonderful ideas. You Obama supporters are my kind of people.
Signed,
LOUIS FARRAKHAN
Posted by: LOUIS FARRAKHAN | May 30, 2008 11:54 PM
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It's funny the racist white media is attacking black churches. Despite Hillary Clinton's traditional role of offended victim, she's been playing up the fears and ignorance of poor whites and rich whites. Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton need to go back to Arkansas because progressives in California and New York don't want you anymore!
Posted by: Rubiconski | May 30, 2008 11:52 PM
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Last I heard, it was the Trinity United Church of Christ, NOT the Church of Obama. Sen. Obama has no control over who is in the pulpit or what is said there. He wasn't even there - he was campaigning.
Granted, the priest had a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease. But at least he wasn't calling invoking Hitler, or saying that Islam was evil.
Isn't it nice to have a priest get in trouble for something other than pedophilia?
Posted by: Athena | May 30, 2008 11:51 PM
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Perhaps being one of those uneducated,gun totting
white folks in Ohio,I want to drink my moonshine as I sit on the porch with my trusty hound dog by my rocking chair.
Msybe understand where there is smoke there is FIRE.
All the Obama supporters are like 'cult memebers'. They are also like the lemmings... they will follow him blindly anywhere...
This new PREIST friend is another skeleton in the closet for OBAMA. Why does the American Voter continue to believe that OBAMA does not agree with the liberal racists beliefs of the VIPER WRIGHT and this 'PREIST' that has been too long in the South part of Chicago.
Oh, by the way. Obama... is either the slickest lair in the political arena OR he is going to be the the WORST KNIGHTMARE for working class America.
Posted by: Bob Miller | May 30, 2008 11:48 PM
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I have yet to see a clip of one of these charlatans actually teaching God's Word.
Posted by: Jeff Taylor | May 30, 2008 11:44 PM
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Dave D wrote: This new "controversy" is dumb. The priest apologized right away.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me guess..... you actually think Pfleger's apology was sincere and he really believes he made a mistake? Snap out of your Obama induced haze and live in the real world.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 11:44 PM
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Please consider signing the petition to have Father Michael Pfleger removed as a priest. Pfleger is racist and his behavior is unbecoming to a Catholic priest. Pflager has supported Barack Obama’s Pastor Jeremiah Wright and arch-racist and Jew hater, Louis Farrakhan.
Father Pfleger’s Racist and Insulting Sermon at Trinity United (Obama’s Church) – May 25, 2008:
http://tinyurl.com/4y6cwd
Petition to the Catholic Church to have Father Pfleger removed:
http://tinyurl.com/42677a
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 11:41 PM
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Fred Jones, good post. You also forget to blame the liberal controlled main stream media for giving Obama a pass. They knew everything that has come to light recently well over a year ago and tried to sweep it under the rug. Hillary's big mistake was to not go at Obama hard last November. She tried to play nice and that just isn't her style.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 11:41 PM
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This new "controversy" is dumb. The priest apologized right away.
Posted by: Dave D | May 30, 2008 11:40 PM
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Amy wrote: A jaw dropping, mystifying display by Pastor Pfleger. Since he's not Obama's minister, it should remain a curiosity rather than a serious issue.
---------------------------------------------------
It shouldn't remain a curiosity because this rant occurred in Obama's church. Obama has also shoved hundreds of thousands of dollars into Pfleger's lap over the years. This also shows that the new pastor of Trinity Church is cut from the same mold as Rev. Wright to allow such hate filled sermons to be served up from his pulpit. Obama is a member of this church right now and has been for 20 years. This matter is going to bring him down come November. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg with Obama. Wait until this fall. We are going to see much more to come and it won't look good for Obama when it happens. One video of him or his wife in the congregation during a Wright rant will spell the end of his campaign.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 11:34 PM
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religion is neeto
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 11:32 PM
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"But by delivering his remarks, Father Pfleger seems to have officially submitted his entry to the What Else Can We At Trinity Do to Further Assure that the United States Does Not Have Its First African-American President Any Time Soon? video competition."
I hope I'm not the first person to point out that the real harm that resulted from this hateful sermon and the appreciative response it got from the congregation is to Hillary Clinton; what about the damage that this kind of rhetoric, found all over "progressive" blogs and in the media, has done to the aspirations of the first female President?
Father Pfleger gets a two-fer: first, he assaults a white person's integrity by ranting that because of her whiteness Hillary Clinton felt entitled; Secondly, he raises the stereotypical image of the white woman in fear of the black man. He actually manages to insult both Hillary Clinton and Barry, although Barry and his campaign are too dense to notice.
Coming on top of the heinous distortion of Hillary Clinton's response to why she is still in the race, Pfleger's rant is salt in the wounds. Barry can run from Fleger and the atrocious actions of his campaign over this Memorial Day weekend, but he can not hide.
In both Rev. Wright's sermons and in Pfleger's rant, it is not just the speakers who will sabotage their Golden Boy's campaign. Everytime those videos are shown, the reaction of the congregation speaks volumes about what Barry's people think this campaign is really all about.
And I wonder how many more edifying tidbits will be coming from Trinity Church?
17 million+ Hillary supporters, Barry. And to think you might have had all of them.
Posted by: mkevin | May 30, 2008 11:31 PM
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This shows how stupid one is to get involved in religion.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 11:29 PM
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Many Obama supporters cannot face the truth about their candidate, period. They began supporting him when they knew nothing about him, and now that they've invested so much of themselves in the "change" he pretended to represent, there is just no turning back for them. No, they will not let information which does not support their image of this man intrude upon their dreams. I blame Obama for this, more than his supporters. He knew he was perpetrating a terrible hoax on the voters of this country from the start. He knew the kinds of ruthless tactics he had used from the beginning to jumpstart his political career. He knew about his dubious associations and how they flew in the face of his calls for "change" and "unification." He knew about the racist theology to which he subscribed for 20 years, and how destructive such ideas are to the progress of race relations in this country. No, I do not place primary blame for our current unfortunate situation on his supporters; I place it squarely on Obama, who has shown an almost criminal lack of concern about the damage his tactics have done not only to the Democratic Party, but more importantly, to relations between the races about which, ironically, he professes to care so much.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 11:28 PM
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Jacques Berlinerblau wrote:
. . . .are there any guys on the face of the earth having more fun than the four fellows in robes whooping it up directly behind Father Pfleger? Third, are we going to be told by Obama operatives that the remarks were taken out of context? Fourth, and most importantly, what will be the fallout for the Obama campaign?
In a general election a presidential candidate typically moves to the center. It is now going to be even harder for Obama to do that since America keeps seeing footage of his friends who stand to the left of Fidel Castro.
But that's not all. The Senator from Illinois has his share of difficulties with White Blue Collar voters. I have observed elsewhere that this group loathes this type of rhetoric (unless it comes from Chris Rock).
There's more to be concerned about. Obama has demonstrated some weakness with Catholic voters. The fact that he finds himself receiving glowing praise from a priest who has been in a running, public feud with his local Cardinal might aggravate the problem.
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I have seen more damning evidence that Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle, are angry, and have retribution in their hearts.
I believe they are more racist than white people are. If one looks at many statements Barack Obama, himself, has said about being resentful of white people, and Michelle, also. When they did the Oprah rally, it was very evident that their joy wasn't in the fact that Barack Obama was running for the presidency, but that a black man was running for the presidency.
They brought out the MLK tone and rhetoric. In fact, in chicago, Barack had a nickname "Vanilla" because he did not speak in a MLK tone.
But he can sure bring it on when he wants to.
Obama has always played "reverse dirty tricks" on Hillary, and now it is more evident than ever that Obama is also playing the "reverse race card" on Hillary and Bill Clinton, for that matter.
They knew that the Clintons were held in high esteem and affection from the African Americans. They had to do something drastic, and they did.
I have done a lot of reading and research on Barack Obama, Jr. He has been listening to terrorist rantings and railings (his father was an Arab terrorist that belonged to the Kenyatta Group. That group pillaged, burned, raped and murdered for their cause.
Barack Obama, Jr's mother was a radical anti-American.
Barack Obama, Jr's mentor in Hawaii was an avowed communist, named Frank (in Barack's book), and Frank took Barack Obama to Marxist meetings until he was 18 years old.
Malcom X's attorney is the one that paved the way for Barack to get into Harvard Law School.
There, Barack pandered to the conservatives telling them what they wanted to hear, and to the liberals, telling them what they wanted to hear, to be voted the President of the Harvard Law Review.
He didn't get that position because of high academic achievements, he got it the same way he is running his campaign now - pandering, pandering, pandering, lying, lying, lying, "forgetting" (Rezko, Auchi, The Trinity Church), and every Chicago Way tactic there is.
Barack Obama is not an honorable, high minded man. He is doing what one of his former campaign people said, he is is operating his campaign with his "elbows out." There isn't anything unifying, hopeful, about him, and with his many, many anti-American, domestic terrorist, and corrupt Chicago political friends and associates, I seriously doubt that the change Barack Obama, Jr., wants to bring to Washington and America is the Change we seek. gw.
Posted by: Grace Wessel | May 30, 2008 11:28 PM
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saybah:
There is no outrage over Hagee because McCain did not sit in his church for 20 years and claimed him as his spiritual mentor as Obama has done with Rev. Wright. Are you really that dense to not see the difference?
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 11:24 PM
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MCCAINSFORMERCAMPAIGN People, anyone saying that Obama is racist against whites needs to go find their thinking cap and put it on. HE IS HALF WHITE and was raised by white grandparents. It's fine if you want to rail against him and argue his faults, but at least be rational.
_____________________________________________
FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT. When Louis Farrakhan was speaking to his followers the day that he endorsed Obama, he made a point of telling them that Malcolm X was also part white. Yes, Malcolm X, who hated white people with a passion until his conversion from the Nation of Islam just before his murder at the hands of NOI members.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 11:21 PM
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I wonder if 'the so called men of g-d' do think for a second of what would be the expression of HIS face listening to all this political hatred. When they should be talking about HIS graceful love and the opportunity for forgiveness and salvation. This people are not Christians. They give us all a bad name, not in the mouths of other men and women but in the eyes of G-d.
Posted by: Southernlight | May 30, 2008 11:17 PM
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This just proves once again that Barrack Hussein Obama is not Presidential material. His dirty chicago politics are finally becoming news. His mask is finally being taken off. He is not an African American, he is bi-racial, pretending to be an African-American. This is not someone he barely knows. This once again proves that obama has a problem with judgement. His act of change is a lie. He is an embarrassment to the democratic party. He needs to stay in chicago with all his other crooked friends, resko, ayers,auchi, quietly please go away. YOu can proudly attend your hate mongering church. We do not want to hear from you again.
Posted by: melody, Snohomish, wa | May 30, 2008 11:16 PM
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The question in my mind is how smart is Senator Obama when he chooses to listen to people putting down someone or any group of people as in these churches, like for 20 years so doing. Some of the bashing it is said, is to identify with parishioner's daily struggle, I don't buy that and think that the venting becomes the enabler of more venting and then to just plain more bashing. To some, they feel smarter. Churches should be apolitical or lose their tax exemption when they become a forum of politics and debasing of character. I read that Obama will not take a picture with the mayor of San Francisco, Neusom has said so, and he is in short distance to the speaker of the house and one California senator. Californians, 51 to 43 believe it is time to quit being self righteous and quit being shallow. Lot of careless debunking of people, we rely on the leaders to know better.
Posted by: bruce | May 30, 2008 11:05 PM
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The real problem is that the separation of church and state is not happening on the pulpit. Every church that uses the pulpit to endorse or trash a particular political candidate should loose its tax free exemptions. That is the law. If this nation was not so ignorant and religiously ridiculous these clowns would not even be mentioned. But since their ridiculous teachings and superstitions are given ample forum all over the place their stupidity can either hurt or elevate the likability of a political contender. Obama happened to be in the wrong church at the wrong time. This would not happen to a secularist. But, that word has no place in this ignorant christian nation.
Posted by: Randy | May 30, 2008 10:59 PM
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I thought churches and pastors would loose their tax exempt status if they converted the pulpit to a political forum.
That will probably not happen but it should. This Chicago church should loose its exempt status. As for the "priest". He should be flogged. Another person who hate whites. Obama does.
I feel sad for anyone who votes for someone who supports GOD DAMN AMERICA like he did. He may not be a traitor but he is certainly not a patriot.
Posted by: Joseph | May 30, 2008 10:58 PM
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We know that the media is dying to see Obama's campaign derail.
The double standard stinks to the high heaven. Where was the outrage for McCain's Hagee. How many weeks did it take for McCain to distance himself from Hagee? How long?
Throughout this campaign, Barack Obama have fought, not just the formidable Bill and Hillary Clinton tag team, but the right wing and so-called liberal media, and the GOP, as well.
Studies after studies have shown that Barack Obama has gotten more negative coverage. People try to diminish his accomplishments and some try to belittle him. But the man has remained above the fray.
The media strives desparately and some work overtime to stir up the pot to inflame the racial divide in this country. They point to the white voters that won't vote for Obama, yet you never hear them talk about McCain and minority voters. They ask if Jews will vote for Obama. You will recall at a certain time in the campaign, there was this question: Is Barack Obama black enough. Back then they were laying the ground work to paint him as the black candidate.
Barack Obama has never allowed the media or his rivals to paint him as that person that they want him to be. But clearly we can see that they will continue to try.
Scott McClellan was right. The media fell down on the job that mattered a whole heap to this country. When it came to covering the news that mattered to Americans, they faltered.
This silly priest's comments is not the result of 4,000 dead Americans, many of them too young to die. It will not be the reason why a child goes hungry in this country tonight, nor will it fix the health care problems. Talk about that?
No.
The media will not discuss those pertinent issues. But yes they like to divide us. That's how they make their money.
One thing is for sure, there's a good number of these same talking heads who don't want to see Barack Obama become president of this nation.
But they use the poor working class to hide behind their true feelings. They scapegoat the race issues. Barack Obama with a White mother and a black father, a mother who was once on food stamps, he's labeled as an elite. The other candidates in this race who grew up with silver spoons in their mouths are hardly commented about in this fashion.
Can you see the duplicity? Can you see what some of us clearly see.
We are not stupid.
Posted by: saybah | May 30, 2008 10:55 PM
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All you Obama supporters, as I am trying to be, better quit trying to fly above this or playing your own reverse race cards. This is serious stuff when it appears so many who want to see him elected, who have known him for much of his development to date, have major chips on their shoulders and serious vendetas to settle. This starts to correct itself, without us doing the same thing, admitting how big of idiots these "Rev.s" are- and what they say had better not ever take hold in the policies of our President. NEVER, EVER should our President govern with vendeta. It would bring to bear, open-eyed, what we are so mad about President Bush doing. So, is it right now? I BELIEVE not!
Posted by: Bob | May 30, 2008 10:53 PM
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ATTENTION HILLARY SUPPORTERS:
I like her too, but face facts. She is finished, and is now trying to figure out a way to exercise some control over the platform and the V.P. part of the ticket.
It does no good for you to trash Obama. It is still very early in the election. You will have to vote for either Obama or McCain (unless you decide to waste your vote). In the heat of these campaigns, it's easy to get your emotions inflamed and to buy the rhetoric of the candidate you like best. But soon you will be despising McCain and will see that Obama is a much better choice for someone who wants to see Hillary's positions prevail. That is why Hillary has been careful and measured in saying that the democrats will be united regardless of which of them wins. Hillary can and will be a very powerful senator, probably the new Ted Kennedy or maybe even better. Not being the president is not going to keep her down.
Posted by: McCain'sformercampaignmanager | May 30, 2008 10:44 PM
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A jaw dropping, mystifying display by Pastor Pfleger. Since he's not Obama's minister, it should remain a curiosity rather than a serious issue.
Posted by: Amy | May 30, 2008 10:37 PM
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To those who responded to my KKK not being a church statement.
A church is centered around works for the needy and faith in a higher being to deliver us from sin. I am not saying it is right or wrong or that those are my personal beiefs, but please go visit a church before saying it is about other things. It doesn't matter what the KKK site says.
Just because another organization (KKK) has some rhetoric on thier website that sounds like a christian mission statements on a church website does not relate them in any stretch of the imagination. Not to mention the huge elephant in the room - what the KKK has done to solidify thier "cause" throughout history. Please, let's be logical here.
The bottom line with me is that Obama did not say those statements. They were said by the VISITING pastor. Yes, the church he attended was a "black" church. But have you ever visited a "black" church? They are ALL filled with political Black-White relations rhetoric. In fact, the entire Southeast and many other "divided" states are filled with that ingrained in thier culture. It is reality that there are black-white issues in our country. I grew up in southern california and moved to the southeast for my undergraduate degree in polical science. I was initially very appalled by the rasicm that went both ways in that culture. However, there is a history of such violence, such gross oppression, that I slowly realized that the American culture is still very badly scarred, and badly divided. This has caused that type of rhetoric to be present in the black community. This, however, does not mean that EVERY black person feels this way or is an EXTREMEST. You have to agree that there are EXTREMIST nutcases in every color, every religion, every corner of every culture. Therefore, to say that Obama feels the way his pastor does about those few statements in one sermon is to GENERALIZE a culture and a race, which is irresponsible.
Every person on this planet is exposed to different ideas, different schools of thought and different ways of relating and speaking to the "souls" of others. We then pick and choose to agree with what we feel speaks to us and discard what we don't agree with - which is why i reposted the comment about the friend who had an affair with a married man. I associate with this person, spend a lot of time with this person, love and respect this person for many things. However, I DEEPLY disagree with the choice she made at that time in her life. I disagree with that aspect of her. I am a thinking individual as is Obama. A pastor may "speak" to Obama's soul about many things, but it DOES NOT MEAN that he agrees with certain statements in one sermon.
Posted by: LL | May 30, 2008 10:30 PM
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Yo!
People, anyone saying that Obama is racist against whites needs to go find their thinking cap and put it on. HE IS HALF WHITE and was raised by white grandparents. It's fine if you want to rail against him and argue his faults, but at least be rational.
Obiewan:
Is the glass half empty or half full? Many people think that right wing Bible thumpers want to replace the state with the church. Indeed, lots of nuts in my own church (Roman Catholic) want the law to simply parrot Catholic teachings.
The Constitution does not command "separation" of church and state. It says the state cannot establish a religion (i.e., cannot sponsor or require religion or religious belief). It also says that the state cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion, and indeed everyone in this country has the right to exercise their religion freely. However, others are not required to exercise any particular religion (or any religion). That's what these religious zealots don't like. They want the LAW to ENFORCE their religious beliefs. If free exercise for themselves isn't good enough, they should just go to a country where everyone is required to follow a particular religion. They would be happier, and so would the rest of us.
Posted by: McCain'sformercampaignmanager | May 30, 2008 10:30 PM
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I just watched the video and I think Father Michael Pfleger is sick and the Trinity Church congregation is sick.
Posted by: John | May 30, 2008 10:20 PM
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Yes.
Ok, and now it is time for the right-wing conspiracy bugaboo to come out of its outhouse.
And I must say, Obama's life story, as it is unfolding around his friendships, is fueling the conservative paranoia. This is going to be an especially dirty election.
Yes, especially against uniters.
Posted by: paul taylor | May 30, 2008 10:18 PM
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First of all, when are we going to realize that these pastors, like many out there these days, are out there to give a show? It's like TV, even more like reality TV. You do whatever you can to "put butts in the seats." Saying outrageous stuff gets people talking, gets you the buzz, and next time you've got a full house.
Secondly, I don't necessarily disagree with his remarks. Maybe the crying comment was a bit off, but there's no doubt that Hillary ran her campaign like she felt she was entitled to the nomination. She expected to have things sewn up by Super Tuesday, and when she didn't, things unraveled. She or Bill badmouthed folks who didn't support her. Geraldine Ferraro, a Clinton advisor for awhile, said Obama was getting attention only because he was black and expressed resentment over it.
So no, I don't think the comments were so outrageous, considering who was making them and the fact that there is an element of truth in them. Politics is a tough bidness. Hillary should know better and so should you.
Posted by: stmr | May 30, 2008 10:15 PM
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It was the Rev. Wright who reminded me that black is not so beautiful after all and it was Rev. Pfleger who reminded me that once upon a time, white was ugly however, I deny any responsibility for what happened during these times, because I had no part in it and am disgusted by Pfleger's seeding and feeding of hatred, hailed and praised by that congregation.
Obama's association with the people who's objective it is to destroy my dream, will be the reason he'll never get my vote. The thought that these are also the people who brought him, makes it even more disgusting.
Posted by: Harold | May 30, 2008 10:14 PM
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What I find so GALLING about this video (besides the falling out of their chairs by the guys in the robes)is that "Father" Pfleger is performing an almost repulsive Stepin Fetchit routine. Blacks don't need to feel victimized to succeed. It surprises me that black people aren't offended by this.
I will never vote for Obama. Too many people around him loathe Hillary , especially Michelle. I will write in Hillary's name or vote McCain.
Posted by: MJ | May 30, 2008 10:14 PM
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Your comment that Obama is "above" Republican and Democrat, etc. may be exactly the point. For 20 years, while the rants from his pulpit went on and on, Sen. Obama knew that children were being indoctrinated with hate while he just sat there, looking above at all, and never raised a protest, never tried to bring about any racial reconciliation, never tried to curb the hatred and malice spewing out of that pulpit, to the delight of many of the congregation. Sen. Obama, to be a reconciler, you have to reach out to people, to help them develop empathy for each other, compassion for people different from themselves, you have to help them see their common interests. You can't do that from above. You have to get down, and be a servant.
The video of Mr. (I can't call him Reverend) Pflager was sickening, it was so venomous. If Sen. Obama could sit through such speeches for 20 years without protest, then he has way too much racist baggage, in my view, to be a President of all the people. No way. That's it for me.
Posted by: Shirley Freeman | May 30, 2008 10:14 PM
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I'm tired of this crap. TUCC should lose their tax exemption. That church is the most racist I've ever heard. I like the double-standard that applies. I realize that this latest pastor is white, but when Rev. Wright made those comments I heard people say "he's just misunderstood, because he's afro-centric". I dont remember anyone making excuses for David Duke and his ilk, by saying it's ok he's just anglo-centric. BO and MO have some nerve hanging out with people who claim crap about entitlemen, when both of their butts are ivy league educated.
Posted by: Truth Police | May 30, 2008 10:07 PM
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My previous and main message you failed to receive for reasons I do not realy understand. If this happen from the Washington Post which I consider No (1) in the country, this very much disappoints me.
fayek awad
Posted by: Fayek Awad | May 30, 2008 10:05 PM
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BOYCOTT OBAMA: Ohio resident Cynthia Ruccia, spokesperson for a group called "Clinton Supporters Count Too," said the group stands ready to boycott the Democratic Party if Clinton doesn't win the nomination. "We have a plan to campaign against Obama," the group said in a press release Thursday. "We have the (wo)manpower and the money to make our threat real. Ruccia tells ABC News that she believes "millions" of women share her group's views. They're disgusted, she said, that Democratic Party leaders haven't more aggressively denounced sexist media comments and coverage in the campaign, and are angry at the drumbeat for Clinton to get out of the race. "We're just at the boiling point," Ruccia said. "Women will sit back and be quiet about things for a while, but we've had enough. Unless Hillary is our nominee, we are not going to support the nominee."
This group is real. If you're tired of the media bias and those who have been trying to force Obama down our throats, band together and make a difference. Donate to Hillary if you can at hillaryclinton.com, but contact this group in the meantime so that we can start spreading its message to all 50 states. The group can be reached at:
HCFPinOH@gmail.com
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 10:05 PM
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My previous and main message you failed to receive for reasons I do not realy understand. If this happen from the Washington Post which I consider No (1) in the country, this very much disappoints me.
fayek awad
Posted by: Fayek Awad | May 30, 2008 10:05 PM
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My previous and main message you failed to receive for reasons I do not realy understand. If this happen from the Washington Post which I consider No (1) in the country, this very much disappoints me.
fayek awad
Posted by: Fayek Awad | May 30, 2008 10:05 PM
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My previous and main message you failed to receive for reasons I do not realy understand. If this happen from the Washington Post which I consider No (1) in the country, this very much disappoints me.
fayek awad
Posted by: Fayek Awad | May 30, 2008 10:05 PM
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It is unfortunate that many compare Bill Clinton's remarks with this garbage; or they want to give equal stand to this crap with Hillary's historical fact of the RFK assassination. Then Obama takes the "high road". I can see why so many women and men, as in E J Dionne's column on Friday were not quickly wanting to join the good fight with Obama.
Posted by: joe ullom | May 30, 2008 10:03 PM
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JHBEYER is right. Outstanding comment. Nothing he is saying is offensive or wrong. He gives one opinion that is questionable about Hillary, but like JHBEYER says, Hillary invited the comment by constantly talking about her white support and being qualified because of Bill.
Posted by: Clif | May 30, 2008 9:59 PM
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I wonder why you keep yourselves busy and drag the American people with you to this nonsense? If some activists are fond to be in the spot light using this kind of theatrical acts, you are helping them by spreading the news in your broadcasting system meanwhile you are hurting an innocent man called Barrack Obama. There is much talk at news channels which I prefer to call empty talks but very few information. In order to get a little bit of information I am forced to listen against my will to vain, repeated stories and attend unbearable cycles of commercials. Is there an end to this dilemma? Don't you feel folks that time is precious? If so, why you fill the air with talk, talk, talk? Please have mercy on us.
Fayek Awad
Posted by: fayek awad | May 30, 2008 9:57 PM
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WE WISH TO GO ON RECORD AND STATE THAT WE SUPPORT BARACK OBAMA. He is our lord and savior, and he shall deliver the world from sin.
Signed,
Louis “racist and proud of it” Farrakhan
The Nation of Islam
Fidel Castro
Raul Castro
Hamas
The New Black Panther Party
Rev. “GD America” Wright
William "the bomb" Ayers
Raila “the butcher” Odinga
Daniel Ortega
Al “racial ambulance chaser” Sharpton
Tony “the indicted one” Rezko
Father Pfleger
Oprah “I used to go to Obama’s church but got out just in time” Winfrey
And various other racists, terrorists, dictators and indicted individuals.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 9:56 PM
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I feel that Oboma is far from ready to lead this country. He has neither the experience nor the tenacity that Clinton has. I resent the fact that the media has exhibited bias towards Clinton. If truth be told she is the only one that can win against Mc Cain. Alice, S.C.
Posted by: Alice Geary | May 30, 2008 9:56 PM
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I wonder why you keep yourselves busy and drag the American people with you to this nonsense? If some activists are fond to be in the spot light using this kind of theatrical acts, you are helping them by spreading the news in your broadcasting system meanwhile you are hurting an innocent man called Barrack Obama. There is much talk at news channels which I prefer to call empty talks but very few information. In order to get a little bit of information I am forced to listen against my will to vain, repeated stories and attend unbearable cycles of commercials. Is there an end to this dilemma? Don't you feel folks that time is precious? If so, why you fill the air with talk, talk, talk? Please have mercy on us.
Fayek Awad
Posted by: Fayek awad | May 30, 2008 9:54 PM
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It is time for Change with a capitol C in the Roman Catholic Church, I say as a born and reared Catholic and Dir. of Catholic Charities.
But, who is going to do it with old men from the Pope all the way down, together with some really immature and neurotic young priests. Who?
Posted by: Bernie | May 30, 2008 9:47 PM
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I'm a white, female who has noooo problem with Father Pfleger's righteous rant. Does he lie? No. Is he wrong? Only Hillary knows, and though she's not telling, she's on record as the only POTUS candidate in modern history to openly suggest being white makes her more qualified.
Posted by: jhbyer | May 30, 2008 9:46 PM
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Did Hillary write your headline? Is Obama responsible for everything that ever did happen or ever will happen in that church? This is nonsense.
Posted by: Don Berry | May 30, 2008 9:41 PM
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Oh for heaven's sake this stuff is just not important. Unless the politician "McCain or Obama) says "yeah, that's what I think" then it is meaningless. Suppose your kid tells his teach to go **** themselves. Is it as though you said it? Should you get in trouble? Not unless you say, "yep, I agree." This nations is facing a multitude of horrific problems and you waste publishing space on yet another non-story. Sad.
Posted by: Scy | May 30, 2008 9:26 PM
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"Obama's spokesman, Ben LaBolt, was unable to say when Obama last spoke to Pfleger. LaBolt said Pfleger stepped down from the Catholics for Obama committee a few weeks ago, but he could not say why."
O.K., so why is there any question why we attack Barack over this? Pfleger was on his Catholics for Obama committee. That ain't church. That's politics pure and sure. Obama is fair game. Pfleger is fair game. Open season. He is embracing and allowing to be embraced by buffoons like Pfleger. Oh excuse me, as of YESTERDAY he embraced this dude.
Wright magically disappeared from Obama's advisory committee before the furor. Obama has sense enough to see the problem NOW as the glaring idiocy of aligning himself with these guys comes to light (now that he has gotten their support for the black vote in the Democratic Party).
Just imagine what kind of administration of advisors B.H. Obama will be appointing when he has secured a nomination! "Secretary Sharpton, would you mind commenting on your energy policy?" "Secretary Pfleger, how do you plan on solving our current mortgage crisis?" "Secretary Ayers, how do you plan on resolving the Israeli/Palestenian crisis?"
You've gotta be kidding me!
Posted by: erndog | May 30, 2008 9:07 PM
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Okay, Jacques.
What's your political affiliation?
Anyone associated with a university which boasts a faculty that includes the likes of Douglas Feith is suspect when it comes to commenting on politics.
What this idiocy represents is the reason why there needs to be a return to the days when religion was a private, personal matter.
Oh, yeah...those days were 200+ years ago when this country was founded on principles including reason and separation of church and state.
Only in America would there be such drivel posing as news and commentary like your column.
Posted by: Robert Shea | May 30, 2008 8:47 PM
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I don't see the priest's remarks as being unfair to Hillary, especially since she made the point that "SHE HAD THE SUPPORT OF WHITE, WORKING CLASS AMERICANS", thus pointing out her race and those that supported her were white. Now, when a WHITE Man pokes fun at her, everyone is all up in the air. Seems kind of stupid. She can also send out coded messages for "White" fanatics to assasinate Obama and that is fine also.
So, what's the big deal?
Posted by: AJB | May 30, 2008 8:30 PM
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Ted DeLaney:
The reason religion hasn't been an issue in the past is because no serious contender has ever been a 20 year member of a church that supports racism and hate speech. We are blazing new territory this election. Obama is hurting race relations far more than he is helping them and you can't blame it on white people either. Or Hillary for that matter. Last time I checked, Obama chose to attend the Trinity Church and nobody forced him to stay for 20 years.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 8:29 PM
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Obama is no more responsible for this priest's comments than the Pope. He's an ordained Catholic priest. If the Catholic Church doesn't apologize for him, why should anyone else?
Posted by: Bryan | May 30, 2008 8:29 PM
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I don't see the priest's remarks as being unfair to Hillary, especially since she made the point that "SHE HAD THE SUPPORT OF WHITE, WORKING CLASS AMERICANS", thus pointing out her race and those that supported her were white. Now, when a WHITE Man pokes fun at her, everyone is all up in the air. Seems kind of stupid. She can also send out coded messages for "White" fanatics to assasinate Obama and that is fine also.
So, what's the big deal?
Posted by: AJB | May 30, 2008 8:29 PM
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Mighty7:
I agree 100%. Religion in this country is largest unregulated business we have going.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 8:23 PM
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All of the focus on comments by pastors and other supporters seems silly, and I cannot remember this being a factor in presidential campaigns of the past. The most important words are those that come from the candidates, and they even make mistakes. I wish everyone would ignore statements from people like biased supporters including Father Pfleger and Geraldine Ferraro.
Posted by: Ted DeLaney | May 30, 2008 8:21 PM
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There already is plenty of separation between the church and state in the USA. The real problem is that the radical far left liberals want to REPLACE the church with the state.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 8:20 PM
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What I have known since the first day I put my foot in America:
American religious leaders are one nutty bunch of false prophets, egomaniacs and lunatics. Left ones, right ones, they are all the same.
Posted by: Mighty7 | May 30, 2008 8:20 PM
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There should be separation between Church and State: indeed it seems to me that in USA this separations is less that what we have in Italy with the Pope and Vatican always in the middle (actually now, with this Pope I should say in the far wright).
Posted by: Pietro | May 30, 2008 8:16 PM
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This is why people thought that separation of church and state was the way to go decades ago.
Posted by: Cheryl | May 30, 2008 8:16 PM
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Theories on "white privilege" are not "radical left" views. In fact, President Bill Clinton's task force on race made it a key part of it's findings about a decade ago.
More importantly, it's refreshing to see a white person who truly appreciates the African American point of view. I believe that America can learn from Fr. Pfleger..
This is what an AP story said about him:
"He has hit the streets, sometimes with busloads of parishioners in tow, to protest Jerry Springer's television show, stores that sell drug paraphernalia and gun violence. He's been arrested for acts of civil disobedience, such as smearing red paint on alcohol and tobacco billboards."
In addition, he suggested that his parishioners pay prostitutes and drug addicts so that they would HAVE to listen to the gospel. This is a new take on the gospeler Luke's instruction to "compel" people to come to Christ, but I like it (Luke 14:23).
At least this man and Rev. Wright are DOING positive things in the community.
Jacques, why isn't the press asking McCain and Hillary what their pastors are DOING? Faith without works is dead.
Posted by: faithfulservant3 | May 30, 2008 8:13 PM
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Well, maybe this is the reason that a lot of us are drifting away from traditional church. This guy is waaaay out. Talk to us Father, when you are off the drugs!
Look, this switch in leadership, we've got to do
--the war, the 4,000 plus dead for nothing, because of GWB, &n the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis killed--forget it.
Forget the words of a priest, who doesn't make sence. He, as all of us are just human.
We need to change the White House completely, &
maybe Bill & Hillary won't find in that
Posted by: Dick | May 30, 2008 7:59 PM
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I got an idea !
Let's ignore ALL the pastors, priests, preachers, etc, like everyone does when they say "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
That way, it doesnt look so hypocritical.
OR, if you don't like what the Pastor says, don't go to his Church.
That's what I do.
Posted by: Heathen Man | May 30, 2008 7:58 PM
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PHEW !
Thank God it's a White Guy this time !
Anyway, no big deal, move along... He's White... We checked it out.
Everything's fine.
He's not Black. It's cool.
Posted by: Whitey | May 30, 2008 7:54 PM
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YEAH, OBAMA BARELY KNEW PFLEGER: Rev. Michael Pfleger, the left-leaning Chicago Catholic priest who ridiculed Hillary Rodham Clinton this week in a racially-charged speech from the pulpit of Barack Obama's church, has contributed to Obama's state Senate campaigns, backed his ill-fated run for Congress and stumped for him in Iowa.
In a Chicago Tribune story a year ago, Obama defended special budget earmarks for his district while he was a state legislator, including ones that went to programs associated with Pfleger's church. Pfleger gave Obama's campaigns $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced at least $100,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs. Obama's spokesman, Ben LaBolt, was unable to say when Obama last spoke to Pfleger. LaBolt said Pfleger stepped down from the Catholics for Obama committee a few weeks ago, but he could not say why.
He confirmed that Obama steered a $100,000 state grant in 2000 to a Pfleger-affiliated community program.
"Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, Obama says."
Last year, Pfleger invited the Rev. Louis Farrakhan to speak at his church, St. Sabina, which encompasses a large, inner city African American parish. Pfleger backed up Farrakhan in a 2006 controversy over some remarkable Farrakhan bile. Pfleger criticized a mass resignation of Jewish members on a state of Illinois hate crimes commission. Pfleger said "good riddance" to the people who had left the commission. "Leave, go ahead and go on out, we don't need that kind of a spirit or mentality and a narrowness on that kind of commission. I'm glad they're gone," Pfleger said.
Farrakhan said, "These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It's the wicked Jews, the false Jews that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality," and "Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government" over the war in Iraq.
Why in heavens' name was Obama supporting this guy? And putting him on his Catholic advisory council?
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 7:47 PM
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STOP WRITING ABOUT STUPID PASTORS!!!
Another stupid guilt-by-association column.
When are we going to use relevant information to make a decision about who will be the best president? How about studying the public service careers of Obama, McCain, and Clinton instead of judging them by the stupid statements of three or four people who are among the thousands of people they know?
The answers are that Americans will NOT do these things because they are stupid!!
Speaking of stupid, anyone who believes that any parishioner or congregant automatically has the same beliefs as the religious leader of his or her church or temple is stupid beyond belief.
And when are we going to realize that religious leaders themselves are often egomaniacal, close-minded, doctrinaire, and the LEAST likely to reflect the opinions of intelligent congregants?
Obama's real problem might be that he decided to join a church for political reasons. In other words, the macro problem might be the American population's stupidity in favoring religious people when it is NONE of their business.
Yes, it is plausible that Obama might have NOT heard the nutty Rev. Wright's speeches. He might be so unreligious that he avoided the church except for attending functions that benefited him for local political reasons.
Thank you,
ZWrite
Posted by: ZWrite | May 30, 2008 7:47 PM
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georgieboy:
If this latest Pastor Disaster is a setup then why were the nearly ALL BLACK congregation enthusiastically support the Priest's sermon? Are you saying those black people are so easily duped to support a person in their own pulpit that is really out to torpedo Obama? Come on, you Obama supporters are running out of excuses for your candidate.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 7:46 PM
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This is ridiculous. How on earth does this have anything to do with Obama? Is he supposed to to gather every pastor, priest, and rabbi he's ever had contact with and tell them to ipzay the iplay? Go crawl in a hole and take these men a' god with you.
Posted by: orrg1 | May 30, 2008 7:44 PM
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DB said: Wright and Pflager are not preaching hatred because if they were, the followers will be out their killing white people.
SO, DB, your evidence that the theology of Obama's church, black liberation theology, is not racist is that the church members are not out killing white people? First, whether any church members have committed any crimes against white people is something neither you or I can know. Second, assuming you are correct that the church members are not killing white people, that is not proof of the absence of hate speech at the church. Your assumption that everyone who hears hate speech will automatically begin killing people is fallacious.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 7:41 PM
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It seems to me that anyone with half a brain can see that this so called new preacher is a setup. Anyone who really supports Obama would not do this. Anyone who does support Obama knows that doing this will only hurt him. This pastor is a setup. Black people have suffered this type of setup before and to most of them this is clear as day. This preacher was either paid or blackmailed into doing this little stunt. He is no Obama supporter.
Posted by: georgieboy | May 30, 2008 7:38 PM
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Another pastor-disaster?
Third in as many weeks, if I'm not mistaken. Add these pirouettes to the U.S. Marines who handed silver coins to Muslim passers-by that had New Testament phrases engraved on them, or used the Qur'an for target practice (in Iraq). These are called "no-brainers" where I come from, because people who do them obviously have no brains; ditto wise-guy priests (although I'm not a Ditto-head myself).
But is there an emerging trend? Maybe I should join the lowing herd on its way over a cliff; go with the flow; ride this wave of non-thought to the end of the line, wherever it takes me (the nearest sewage outfall into Lake Michigan, probably).
How?
By forming a garage band and naming it "PastOR DisastOR", or something even more provocative and well-seasoned (borrowing a phrase from a Seasoning Salt commercial), like "Pedophile Priest".
There! I said it! Either, in my humble opinion, says it all.
Posted by: Steve Singer | May 30, 2008 7:27 PM
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Obama is unelectable. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Posted by: A F | May 30, 2008 7:27 PM
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I’m a catholic too, and no body can tell me that the Church and the Priest have been preaching Jesus and Holy of Holy. The church is controlled like a business, wonder why priest are not allowed to be married? Because it saves the church allot of money. People are shocked because his white but this is black theology who’s roots are intertwined with liberation theology. Wright and Pflager are not preaching hatred because if they were, the followers will be out their killing white people. The safest place foe a white person is the black church. Oh! And I’m white.
Posted by: db | May 30, 2008 7:25 PM
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Okay... someone mentioned the KKK.
If I were a white politician.. and attended a KKK meeting once a week for 20 years. And I sat on the bleachers and listened to the SAME grand poo bob for that same period of time AND had that KKK POO BOB on
my campaign organization.
Then I preached, called down the wraith of my supporters on that Grand Poo Bob and had him lock himself up in the closet, and moved on to the next skeleton in my closet.
I am the DNC nominee...ALMOST.. and low and behold
I got another friend that stands up in the same meeting, I am not there... and shouts about the KKK.
DO YOU THINK I WOULD BE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE RACE.
The American voter... IS BLIND, HAS BEEN BLIND and will continue to be BLIND as long as they listen to the main stream media... that is controlled by the rich and powerful.
NOTE that HUSSEIN is keeping a low profile... until this DNC cronies insure that he is the candidate.
IF ANYONE believes that the political system in the UNITED STATES careers about the AMERICAN VOTER, the Constitution. You have to be attending that same church as HUSSEIN and then leaving and attending the KKK meeting down the street. (NOT LIKELY, HUH.)
Posted by: Bob Miller | May 30, 2008 7:13 PM
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LL SAID: Fred Jones. You are an idiot because you are comparing apples to shoelaces.
NOT SURE HOW TO RESPOND TO THIS OTHER THAN TO SAY IT IS A TYPICAL INANE INSULT FROM AN OBAMA SUPPORTER.
LL SAID: The KKK is not the same as a church; that comparison is not valid.
THE KKK STATEMENT ON THEIR WEBSITE SAYS: BRINGING A MESSAGE OF HOPE AND DELIVERANCE TO WHITE CHRISTIAN AMERICANS. The KKK professes to be a Christian-based organization which promotes white pride and white culture. This sounds a lot like the statement on the welcome page of Obama's church: We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization." Obama's church preaches black liberation theology, which is based upon the struggle between the "white oppressor" and the "black oppressed," and the black value system.
LL SAID: About dissent, I was referring to contradicting liberal practices in government, but you are right, it wasn’t the best choice of words. Don’t you know that without radicals we wouldn’t have many of the most basic equalities we have today? To go on would be repeating a lot of what the other people on this blog have posted. It’s pretty cut and dry.
I AGREE WITH YOU that those who criticize government are essential. My problem with Obama's church is that they frame our problems as black/white issues, very much like the KKK does. Rev. Wright thinks about everything pretty much in terms of black versus white. He called 9/11, for example, a “wake-up call to white people.” He asserts that the country is run by "rich white people." Commenting on the recent murder of Natalie Holloway, he decried the press coverage by stating that “one 18—year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and gives it up while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months.” He describes the story of Jesus as a "black Jesus" who was murdered by "white people," or more specifically, "garlic nosed" white people. This kind of racism is very much like the fundamentalist Christians who purposefully state and restate that Jesus was "killed by the Jews," as a way to damn all Jews. So, LL, I am all for truth to power; I'm just against racism.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 7:12 PM
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This is a man that gets it! you cant be mad at him for speaking the truth.
Posted by: DB | May 30, 2008 7:09 PM
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I am a catholic and this Priest is no catholic. Catholic priests are supposed to represent JESUS CHRIST on earth, and this man is not doing that, instead he is spreading hate...
Posted by: Dwight | May 30, 2008 7:04 PM
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First of all the bashing of women by a disturbed priest who has lost his way was unwelcome by all women and especially catholic women.
Senators and US reps who happen to be catholic but endorsing Obama in such a public way is very alarming and should be to people of all faiths including catholics.
No one can underestimate the catholic church and their larger fight now seems to be for american democracy. The catholic church will through the supreme court and now through congress will remake our constitution for us. I hope the the obama supporters understand the stakes.
Posted by: JohnAdams1 | May 30, 2008 6:59 PM
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LL:
The purpose of being a member of an organization like a church, social group or even the KKK is to associate with people who have common views and beliefs with yourself. Obama has been a member of that church for 20 years and he must share the views of the majority of its members. Otherwise, why would he join that particular church? If it wasn't for his belief in the church's theology then for political gain? Why did he choose to be a member of this particular church for 20 years? I want an honest answer from him. So far I have received a bunch of double talk from Obama. So far the most honest reason I have heard has come from Rev. Wright himself. Isn't that ironic?
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 6:56 PM
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please, noone cares what the clintons think anymore, yes this will help mccain gather scared white people, but he had their vote anyway.
Posted by: fran | May 30, 2008 6:55 PM
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Fred Jones. You are an idiot because you are comparing apples to shoelaces. The KKK is not the same as a church; that comparison is not valid. About dissent, I was referring to contradicting liberal practices in government, but you are right, it wasn’t the best choice of words. Don’t you know that without radicals we wouldn’t have many of the most basic equalities we have today? To go on would be repeating a lot of what the other people on this blog have posted. It’s pretty cut and dry.
"This is a phony controversy. I am not electing the pastor, I am electing the candidate. The media loves to divert people from reality. Look at the bloody mess they made with the Iraq war. When they start trials of the media types who sold people on the war, then I will start worrying about Obama's pastor "problem".
"I happen to have friends that have had affairs with married men, gotten DUI's, my brother is an alcoholic...the list goes on. There is not one person in the United States who does not associate with someone who has done something unexcusable. Does that mean we all have bad moral fiber? I certainaly do not have flawed moral fiber. Let's think about this. There are hundereds of media people who are paid to dig up dirt on any policial figure. Now that they have determined that Obama really has nothing to hide, they are searching within people he has some sort of connection with. Let's use our common sence...Does that mean Obama has flawed moralitiy. Absolutely not."
Posted by: LL | May 30, 2008 6:46 PM
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Please consider signing the petition to have Father Michael Pfleger removed as a priest. Pfleger is racist and his behavior is unbecoming to a Catholic priest. Pflager has supported Barack Obamas Pastor Jeremiah Wright and arch-racist and Jew hater, Louis Farrakhan.
Father Pfleger’s Racist and Insulting Sermon at Trinity United (Obama’s Church) – May 25, 2008:
http://tinyurl.com/4y6cwd
Petition to the Catholic Church to have Father Pfleger removed:
http://tinyurl.com/42677a
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 6:37 PM
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Just imagine who Obama will hire if he gets into the White House - what a disaster. I can see riots in the streets. Please don't put Obama - a racist in a position of leadership in America.
Posted by: Margaret | May 30, 2008 6:36 PM
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Just imagine who Obama will hire if he gets into the White House - what a disaster. I can see riots in the streets. Please don't put Obama - a racist in a position of leadership in America.
Posted by: Margaret | May 30, 2008 6:35 PM
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Good God! Let's dump the preachers already! Also stop pretending we care about churches and presidential candidates. They're all nuts.
Posted by: Awake | May 30, 2008 6:30 PM
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The skin color of the "pastor" really had nothing to do with the issue. It is the hate filled, idiotic preachings which are in question.
It does, however, illustrate the mentality of many Obama backers and to a degree - Obama.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 6:28 PM
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There's a rumor circulating that there's video of Michelle "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country" Obama speaking at Rev. Wright's church about Whitey. How delicious!
Posted by: Ellis | May 30, 2008 6:26 PM
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OBIEWAN said: If Obama is not to be held accountable for WILLINGLY being a member of a church that promotes racism then does a member of the KKK need to be held accountable for his membership even if he didn't burn a cross? Like it or not we all are accountable for who we choose to associate with and Obama is no exception.
____________________________________________
Obiewan: Of course Obama should not be held to the same standard, because . . . well, because . . . , well, because he is the Obama. He can do no wrong. He is the Messiah. He is God . . .
Signed,
Typical Obama Minion
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 6:19 PM
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Arminius:
Obama is indeed a far left liberal. All one needs for proof is to examine his Bittergate speech he made to the San Fransisco liberal elite when he thought he wasn't being taped.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 6:18 PM
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As an anti-Dem, this is the greatest election since 1984. Watching the self-destruction of the Dems is orgasmic.
Posted by: Ellis | May 30, 2008 6:17 PM
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Liz:
If Obama is not to be held accountable for WILLINGLY being a member of a church that promotes racism then does a member of the KKK need to be held accountable for his membership even if he didn't burn a cross? Like it or not we all are accountable for who we choose to associate with and Obama is no exception.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 6:11 PM
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Get a life people! This man is a nut.
But don't use this as an excuse to trash Obama. Obama is not responsible for what comes out of another person's mouth. But Hillary IS responsible for what comes out of her mouth - such as her not-so-subtle reference to the possibility that Obama may be assassinated, her not-so-subtle appeals to racism, OR her reference to hard-working WHITE people!
If we hold Obama responsible for Wright and Father Pfleger, then we must do the following:
Hold Hillary responsible for the racist remarks and race baiting of Bill Clinton, Geraldine Ferraro, and her other "close supporters".
Hold McCain responsible for John Hagee and Rod Parsley whose support he at first gladly accepted.
Posted by: Liz | May 30, 2008 5:55 PM
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Obiewan,
As Yogi Berra famously said, "It ain't over 'til it's over." Wait and see, dude. Obama is not a 'far left liberal'; he is a liberal. Apparently you have never met a far left liberal. They are not usually pleasant company. Liberals usually are. Also, regarding experience: are you aware that the president with the most experience in public service was Buchanan? Until the advent of the Shrub (aka Bush, aka Darth Dubya), he was considered the worst president ever. Are you aware of the president with the least experience? His successor, Lincoln.
Think about it.
Posted by: Arminius | May 30, 2008 5:52 PM
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It's very difficult to find a group of objective people who disagree that Hillary is acting like the nomination is owed to her. The white Catholic priest simply said the truth in a very clumsy and disrespectful way. Diplomatic ways of conveying the same message have fallen on deaf ears for some time now.
Posted by: LP Zandcus | May 30, 2008 5:51 PM
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why is this a problem. the preacher is white and catholic. Obama is neither. he is mocking Hillary. at this point who is not? this is Hillary's problem.
Posted by: henry dribble | May 30, 2008 5:50 PM
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Lillie Aziz:
Are you channeling Michele Obama in your post?
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 5:40 PM
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Attacking Pflege wreaks of absurdity, compared to the to the on-going issues of race and discrimination faced by many in this nation.
Perhaps you ignored the many people in Kentucky and in Pennsylvania who blatantly stated that they could and would not vote for a Black man.
Perhaps you choose not to listen to campaign workers who had witnessed something very different from what you allegedly experienced in your travels.
Perhaps that is our problem, our inability to listen to someone elses experience if it doesn't fit ours.
You point out in your article that Obama is weak in appealing to certain groups, mainly whites.
And then to imply that race doesn't play a role because in your travels that you are impressed with what doesn't divide us.
What would you say in your "whiteness and ignorance" to those who face racial discrimination everyday, in the workplace in healthcare and in our society!
Denying the issue means you have a problem with change and reality, only by identifying and listening to other perspectives can we resolve the issues of racism.
Posted by: Lillie Aziz | May 30, 2008 5:36 PM
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Arminius:
It is a bad sign when you side with an opinion that ignores reality. Obama supporters are ignoring the voting trends of the primary elections since the Pastor Disaster and Bittergate broke. Had this hit before Iowa, you wouldn't even remember Obama's name right now. Obama should also thank John Edwards for bailing before Super Tuesday elections. This made it a two person race and funneled most non-Hillary votes to Obama. Had Edwards stayed in the race Hillary would be the nominee by now. Don't let yourself be deluded about Obama being the divine one. He is just the luckiest man in politics this election. The reality is he is a far left liberal with zero experience and I doubt the majority of the country will trust its future to such a candidate.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 5:36 PM
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Hi All,
Way cool dialogue!
Looks like this election is going to come down to voting based on race . . . sure keeps things simple . . . I won't have to worry about things like;
(1) Obama's judgement
(2) Obama's associations
(3) Obama's experience
(4) Obama's plans (does he have one yet?)
(5) Obama's values
(6) Or McCain's age
. . . .and this will save me from listening to any more "scoldings from Obama (and his wife). . . . that it was us Americans who messed up America in the first place" . . . This means a lot more time with the family and better nights sleep.
Just to make sure I have this right?
> If you are black, then you vote for Obama
> If you are not black, then you have no reason to vote against Obama, unless you are a racist.
So simple! . . . my thanks to Father Pfleger for clearing this up!
Signed,
Relieved!
Posted by: Amused | May 30, 2008 5:34 PM
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Dear Sir,
Why should Mr Obama be guilty by association? Your whole expose is weak to say the least.
Posted by: fabrice | May 30, 2008 5:33 PM
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LOULOR: I hear that you participated in Merriam-Webster's modified definition of the word "racist." Good job.
racist
One entry found.
racism
Main Entry:
rac•ism
Pronunciation:
\ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function:
noun
1 : a belief “by racist white people” that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination “as perpetrated by racist white people”
3. : “a reluctance to support Barack Obama’s Presidential candidacy”
4. : “any attempt to bring to light or expose accurate information which would serve to damage the credibility or reputation of Barack Obama”
— rac•ist \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 5:28 PM
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Maybe this guy was turned down for a job by Saturday Night Live
Posted by: Aged One | May 30, 2008 5:26 PM
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Mr Mark,
Great post! God knows you and I have had our differences, but I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you on Obama. A truly amazing number of dain-bramaged unfortunates have littered this blog today.
Arminius
Posted by: Arminius | May 30, 2008 5:26 PM
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Mr Mark:
Nothing sticks? Maybe you need to look at the details of the recent voting trends of non-blacks in the primary states since the "Pastor Disaster" broke. Obama has lost the white vote to Hillary is most every state since then. Keep thinking Obama is invincible and you are going to be suicidal come November.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 5:25 PM
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PGR88 said: I'll say it one more time - Obama often called Pfleger his "spiritual compass" and Wright is "mentor." Indeed, Obama did not himself act like the clown at TUCC - but his "spiritual compass" did. Who is worse, the fool, or the fool who takes advice from him? Get the point yet?!
PGR88: YOU COULD SAY IT A MILLIONS TIMES, IT COULD BE PROVED BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, INDEED, JESUS COULD COME DOWN JUST TO STATE THE TRUTH OF YOUR STATEMENT, AND THE OBAMA MINIONS WOULD NOT BELIEVE IT. Unfortunately, so many Obama supporters, are not interested in the facts; they are only interested with that which compliments their infatuation. For example, prior to Obama's candidacy, most Democrats were of the opinion that Bill Clinton was one of the best, perhaps the best, president since FDR. But, that idea got in Obama's way. He couldn't have the reputation of his opponent’s husband thwart his ambitions, therefore, with carefully orchestrated race cards and lies of all sorts, he has systematically attempted to destroy the legacy of Bill Clinton and his administration. This is Obama's modus operandi; he destroys all that stands in his way. Before he is finished, he will have destroyed the unity of the Democratic Party; he will have set race relations back 50 years; and he will have destroyed the Democratic Party's chance to win the general election and with it, America's chance to recover from the terrible reign of George Bush. But, I guess to him, all these concerns are secondary to his insatiable and ruthless ambition.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 5:25 PM
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You call this a gaffe! I call it a truth! And the events of the past few weeks/months have proven this out. Hillary feels the Presidency is owed to her!
I am a 61 yr old white male who has been a feminist supporter all of my days and I was a Hillary supporter until she and Bill started playing the race card and the reverse race card and the elitist card and refused to address the issues but preferred to sling mud and mis-spoke untruths. When they looked at how to tear down instead of build up, when they supported McCain more than they support their own party - I walked away!
I may get denigrated for my thoughts but I know that Hillary has felt entitled to the nomination and Presidency. It is the game she has played since she moved to New York City from Arkansas.
Posted by: MizuInOz | May 30, 2008 5:25 PM
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Maybe this guy was turned down for a job by Saturday Night Live
Posted by: Aged One | May 30, 2008 5:23 PM
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Obama didn't say it and he quickly denounced what has been said, so just move on with the race!
Posted by: What's the big Deal? | May 30, 2008 5:22 PM
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The last post to LL was from myself.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 5:21 PM
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LL said: Fred Jones. Although I embrace dissent as an integral part of our nation, you are an idiot. Are you educated?
LL: And in what way am I an idiot, LL? By the way, what does dissent have to do with this issue. Obama is not the government, is he? What is the power against whom I am dissenting? As to your statement that I am an idiot, without further explanation of your meaning, it is impossible for me to reply.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 5:19 PM
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If we've learned one thing from the Obama campaign, it's that Sen. Obama is simply too smart to fall into the "tried and true" traps of the RWNM and their media enablers.
Let's face it, they've thrown the kitchen sink at Obama, and he's been able to brush all of it aside with an adroitness that must be the envy of every other world leader. Nothing sticks, no matter how hard they try, while at the same time a few bare spots are emerging on Teflon John's media-preserved coat of DuPontian non-stick aura.
How pathetic has it gotten for the Obama detractors? Well, so pathetic that they've run out of new ideas and are reduced to bending over to pick up the same steaming pile of "crazy minister" sheet to throw at Obama, the same sheet that failed to work the last time around.
I'm not impressed, are you?
Meanwhile, Hillary skulks around warning the super delegates that there's still plenty of time for Obama to screw-up, and to say or do something that would make him unelectable. Perhaps she's waiting for Obama to make some stupid comment about RFK's assassination, or, perhaps she's waiting for him to make an overtly racist comment about "white voters"...or, perhaps, she's waiting for him to change his stance on whether or not the votes from Florida and Michigan will count so she can accuse him of being a flip-flopper who will play by the rules as long as he's allowed to change them at the end of the game.
Perhaps.
There's a lot of hand wringing going on in this column, but it's all for naught on both sides of the aisle. Obama will be elected president in November, and all of this faux angst and all of these BS-as-usual political ploys will be but a faded memory in our collective consciousness.
Posted by: Mr Mark | May 30, 2008 5:19 PM
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loulor:
Fred and I are not the same person. The problem you really have with us is that we are presenting a very sound, logical argument regarding Obama's reason(s) for attending Trinity Church for 20 years and claiming Rev. Wright as his spiritual mentor. Why do YOU think he was a member of that particular church for 20 years? Do you really believe he was unaware of Rev. Wright's racist views?
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 5:14 PM
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ATTENTION ETYMOLOGISTS: Due to recent events, Merriam-Webster has modified the definition of the words “racism” and “racist.” All modifications are indicated by quotes.
racist
One entry found.
racism
Main Entry:
rac•ism
Pronunciation:
\ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function:
noun
1 : a belief “by racist white people” that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination “as perpetrated by racist white people”
3. : “a reluctance to support Barack Obama’s Presidential candidacy”
4. : “any attempt to bring to light or expose accurate information which would serve to damage the credibility or reputation of Barack Obama”
— rac•ist \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 5:14 PM
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Katie Jones:
The three are offended because they know Obama used them to get elected to the Illinois State Senate and to Congress. Now that he got what he needed from them he is tossing them overboard and they don't appreciate it much.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 5:10 PM
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DD, you said,
Let's see, somewhere in literature someone said "first kill all the priests".
I think you're off base. Perhaps you were thinking of the line from Shakespeare's Henry VI, Part 2: 'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers'.
Posted by: Arminius | May 30, 2008 5:10 PM
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FredJones,
Fess up. You and Obiewan are really one in the ssme, aren't you.
This is pretty hopeless, it's like talking to a brick wall, but I'll try one more time.
A closet racist normally dresses up his bigotry by seeing it in the person he opposes. You can't spot it out there, or even suspect it's out there, unless it is already alive and well within yourself. It's the old "Me thinketh he protests too much" syndrome that gives you and yours away.
Every time you go off about black churches, theology, or ministers -- things you obviously know nothing about -- you're showing us the hatred that's alive and well inside you.
It's your POSTS that give you away. They are laced with hatred and bile, all dressed up in innocuous language. You just can't hide anymore, and still continue your hateful posts.
Posted by: loulor | May 30, 2008 5:09 PM
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McCain'sformercampaignmanager:
If my father had been black there is no way I would sit in a church for 20 years listening to anti-black sermons. I certainly wouldn't claim the pastor of such a church as my "spiritual mentor" for the past 20 years. Why should I give Obama a pass for doing this very thing for the past 20 years? Personally, I think he knew he had to sit in that church to advance he political ambitions more than he actually believes the doctrine it promotes. The same goes for his association with Ayers. As I said in an earlier post, either way he is disqualified from being President of the United States of America. If Obama is the best the Democrats can offer this country then God help us all.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 5:07 PM
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It seems to me that all the candidates would be better served if they would disavow any religious affiliation. Most of the worlds problems are somehow related to religious beliefs!!!!!
Posted by: JFB | May 30, 2008 5:06 PM
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Katie, good points!
Posted by: MikeinPhilly | May 30, 2008 5:06 PM
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Trinity UCC should lose their tax exempt status. They are participating in political activity to the 9's and therefore are no longer eligible for the tax exempt status.
Posted by: blm | May 30, 2008 5:06 PM
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It is so obvious to me that Pfleger, Wright and Farrakan are trying to derail Obama's chances of becoming President. If Obama becomes president then they become irrelevant ...their hate filled words are no longer true about this country. The three (3) are offended because Barack is not like them. Sure he has associated with them to reach an important and helpful end to a very important cause - however, he is not like them at all. Obama is 1/2 white and was reared by his all white grandparents. We develop who we are long before we reach our twenties.
Also, Obama is running for President - not Wright, Pfleger, nor Farrakan.
I am sure President Johnson had to associate with some bigots to get civil rights laws passed but he did not walk in their shoes. The media should let go of this guilt by association.
Katie Jones, Evanston, IL
Posted by: Katie Jones | May 30, 2008 5:01 PM
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Fred Jones. Although I embrace dissent as an integral part of our nation, you are an idiot. Are you educated?
Posted by: LL | May 30, 2008 4:57 PM
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Obiewan:
Per your response to Evil Obama -- your points might be well taken if Obama had not been raised in part by white grandparents and was not half-caucasian himself. White people know that Obama doesn't hate whites. The power of the Rev. Wright debacle is that it hands "Swift boat veterans-type" groups a means of fomenting racism among white voters by giving it a patina of legitimacy. That could work, just like the swift boat ads worked (although that didn't involve racism). Fortunately for Obama, Wright is such an ego maniac, limelight lover that he went to the National Press Club and made a complete fool of himself thereby providing Obama with an easy means of renouncing him. McCain's people will try hard (even though McCain, to his credit, at one point said it's off limits) to continue to tar Obama with the Rev. Wright brush. However, intelligent people will be able to see that Obama obviously doesn't hate whites or hate America (the only problem remaining is that by and large our populace is much longer on emotion than intelligence (which explains how George got elected in '04). The trick, as I said, will be for the swift boat types who will do McCain's bidding (whether authorized or not) to get whites to hate Obama because he's black, not to convince them that Obama hates them.
Posted by: McCain'sformercampaignmanager: | May 30, 2008 4:57 PM
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loulor:
I won't vote for Obama because he closely associates with racists and radicals. Just like I wouldn't vote for a white politician that had David Duke as a spiritual mentor for 20 years. There are plenty of black people that could receive my vote for President. The trouble is that none of them are running this year. The more I learn about Obama the more I am convinced that he is an empty suit that will use anyone and any organization to advance himself politically. Then when those people he used becomes a liability, he will throw them overboard without a second thought. He even did this with his grandmother for God's sake. He misquoted her remark about black men making her nervous and equated her to Rev. Wright in his so called "teaching" speech on race in America. Obama is a phony and and a user and as he is scrutinized further this will become very clear to the public.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 4:52 PM
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Did Obama invite this guy Pfleger to the pulpit? Did Pfleger say anything regarding Hillary that hasn't been said already multiple times, from multiple platforms, by women as well as men? By people of all races? That she came to this campaign with a sense of entitlement? That her boasting about her experience in foreign affairs and the risks she has teken on behalf of President Clinton have been exaggerated to the point of indisputable falsification? That she has crossed th line from intensity to inanity when she claims that she is much more qualified to lead the country in this troubled world because . . . . her experiences as First Lady gave her a leg up on diplomatic protocal, so that she knows when to shake hands, when to kiss cheeks, which hand to eat with and which fork to use at state dinners?
There's no excuse for Father Pfleger. He's obviously a self-hating, self-flagellating person, vainly (in all senses of the word) trying to expiate his sense of his own sins by cloaking himself in the shameful victimization that has been, in varying degrees, visited upon African-Americans in this nation.
No one can deny that wrongs were done and that they continue to be done. But, Pfleger suffers from the self-hating myopia that prevents a person, well-intentioned though he or she may be, from recognizing that slavery, hatred, discrimination, segregation, and all of their attendant violence, intimidation, depersonalization, and insults, were not invented by white people nor by the USA. There's something intellectually lazy and disingenuous about blaming a nation and society for their failure to fully overcome the injustice of racism, when at the same time that very nation and society were among the first on earth to recognize the moral wrongness and depravity of such injustice, and to lay the Constitutional and statutory framework to resist and overcome such injustice.
One is reminded of a line from the book "Davita's Harp" by the late Chaim Potok. In a dialog between a "liberal" and a self-proclaimed Communist, the "liberal" says: It is foolish and unfair to judge one society by its stated ideals, and another by its conduct.
Posted by: deja voo | May 30, 2008 4:52 PM
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I'll say it one more time - Obama often called Pfleger his "spiritual compass" and Wright is "mentor." Indeed, Obama did not himself act like the clown at TUCC - but his "spiritual compass" did. Who is worse, the fool, or the fool who takes advice from him? Get the point yet?!
Posted by: PGR88 | May 30, 2008 4:48 PM
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Where to begin...Let's see, somewhere in literature someone said "first kill all the priests". That's a good place to start with regard to the Rev. Phlegler. Next, do any of these race baiting blacks and race self-hating white apologists ever stop to reflect before they spew forth with their "black liberation theology" half-truths, outright distortions and delusions? Does it not register with them that they are witnessing the antithesis of the very issue they claim to be so angry about yet hold so dear? That's a black dude up there at the podium and he's a virtual lock to get the democratic nod to run for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! HELLO! What in "Gods" name are they going to do if he's elected? How will they fill that Sunday morning time known as the "most segregated hour in America"? God forbid...they just might have to go back to the bible and get back to administering to the souls of their congregations instead of inciting them to "keep hate alive". And how about white folks that are so disturbed by the accident of birth that burbened them with that ugly pale pigment? Nothing is more repulsive than a white person trying to act and sound black. African Americans should hound them out of the building for such a transparent display of disrespect. Are they really that easily duped? Phlegler gave a spot-on minstrel show imitation of Wright...all that was missing was the black-face makeup. White America...are you finally paying attention? This ultimate unifier just might be the chosen one who sends the country spiraling down to a new low in race relations. And he's had ample help from our "first black president" and his wife along with assorted cohorts. I can't wait for the general election to begin. hey, democrats...can you say "what the f*** happened"?
Posted by: DD | May 30, 2008 4:47 PM
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Evil Obama:
I know it is hard to defend the indefensible regarding Obama's choice of "Spiritual Mentor" and church for the past 20 years. I have a recommendation for you, the old "Woe is me" defense doesn't work at all. Obama needs to man up and tell us the real reason he sat in that church and associated with a congregation that eats up the racist preaching presented at that church like pigs at the slop trough. Was it for political gain, he actually believes in Black Liberation Theology or both? If is wasn't one of these then he must be the most clueless person to ever step foot into that church. Also, trying to equate McCain's endorsement by religious leaders to Obama's WILLINGNESS to set in a church listening to racist rants FOR TWENTY YEARS makes you look rather weak minded. Americans want truthful answers from Obama about his relationships with racists, radicals and a congregation that can't get enough racist laced sermons from any number of people preaching from the pulpit of Trinity Church. My guess is if he tells us the truth on the matter he will hand McCain a landslide victory next November.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 4:41 PM
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If I was Obama I would renounce Christenity, and become Muslim. The Terroist couldn't embarrass him anymore than the preachers have. Pray Barack Pray that Jesse and Al don't try to help you, or we will have McCain for certain.
Posted by: Telsie Einhorn | May 30, 2008 4:39 PM
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You called your own book "Thumpin it" yet you stand in judgement.
When are you going to get angry at Lorne Michaels for ridiculing Hillary?
Posted by: Jess | May 30, 2008 4:35 PM
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Obiewan,
PAY ATTENTION. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
A racist is one who won't vote for a black man BECAUSE the candidate is black. So are those who try to pass off other flimsy, transparent excuses for their opposition, to cover their bigotry. E.G., Did you hear what that minister said?????
Posted by: loulor | May 30, 2008 4:33 PM
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Preachers of all stripes come from a tradition that claims they are always right. They don't take kindly to people questioning their beliefs or pronouncements. They are the living antithesis of democracy. How do I know? Sixteen years of Catholic schools. Politicians of all stripes should not campaign in churches and not encourage endorsements from preachers. They do so at their own peril.
Posted by: John M Dooley | May 30, 2008 4:31 PM
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I am more than amused by the Obama apologists who suggest that we should not consider any of his associations as relevant to his character and judgment. They say that since Obama himself did not spout the racist and anti-American remarks, we should not consider any such remarks, or any of his associations when deciding whether or not he is a suitable President. They say that we should only consider statement made by Obama himself; a man who is trying to convince us that he is the appropriate choice as the leader of our nation.
We're supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year "mentor and spiritual adviser." We're supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who, in a fiery sermon, claimed retired pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright was "lynched" by the media and compared the embattled pastor to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. government was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading the AIDS virus to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to ignore Obama's friend and patron of 17 years, the indicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama's equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama's long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.
Just how many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 4:31 PM
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Wow that Obama is such a terrible guy. Lets all burn him at the stake for hateful words spoken by another grown man, during a church service he didn't attend, that he immediately condemned, even though the speech was not connected to his campaign. Yes let's get this evil guy, but let's forgive McCain for courting evil "religious" leaders and take him at his word when he denounces them. Yes and Hillary is so innocent, why she has run such a clean campaign. She would never distort the truth, lie to the public, or sell out her party for her own naked ambition.
Nope never..
Posted by: Evil Obama | May 30, 2008 4:29 PM
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Now I have seen everything!
Calling black folks racists!
How can Obama be a racist: he is half-black and half-white.
Some of the arguments posted here make no sense.
Posted by: Hobbs | May 30, 2008 4:26 PM
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LOULOR: Ah, the race card. The last refuge for those who have no argument. This is just one more reason why I am not looking forward to an Obama administration; 4 or 8 more years of race cards is more than any nation could be expected to withstand.
I'll tell you what. Please post any comment of mine which you consider to be racist. If you cannot, then consider your apology accepted in advance. Thank you for your cooperation.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 4:26 PM
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The relevance of Father Pfleger's comments and this congregation's glee, which is especially disappointing for its reverse racism, is the need to have the Democrat nominee unify the party for the general election. When you have a visible supporter and Sen. Obama's fellow congregants mocking a viable, equally noteworthy candidate, and monumental stalwart in pushing "people policies" it is disappointing, disgusting, and disheartening. I am, without a doubt, Democrat (and African American) and will vote thusly but when speaking to an undecided or when making my case I need to have the passion for the candidate not just the principles of the Party. This situation doesn't help get me "fired up and ready to go" for Sen. Obama.
Posted by: SBrown | May 30, 2008 4:25 PM
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Obiewan:
You are certainly right that McCain is far superior to Bush in every respect: speaking ability, integrity, and actually caring about the Constitution of this country and our balance of power. However, he is making the mistake of tying HIMSELF to Bush by saying he will continue (if not pursue with greater fervor) many of Bush's failed policies on key issues. That is what will hang him. If people see him, despite his contentions to the contrary, as accepting the status quo, he will be dead on election day. He has admirably criticized George a few times, but on the matters of greatest significance, his position is that he agrees with George. I think he would fare much better if the contrast between him and Obama were less stark. He would then be sure to get all those people who now know they were duped into voting for Bush in '04 (and I think there are millions of people in that boat). I know 90-year-old lifelong Republicans who voted against Bush in '04 and despise him more than anyone. Everyone but the stauchest conservatives know that Bush has sold them and this country out. If Obama can paint McCain with that brush (and McCain seems to be helping him to do just that), then McCain will be in trouble despite his status as a respectable, bona fide hero. This election is not going to be a referendum on Iraq like '06 was. It's going to hinge on who people think is going to level the playing field so that the common person has a fighting chance of becoming better off (and keeping their kids alive, so Iraq will have some influence, probably in favor of Obama). McCain is siding with Bush on those issues, and I think that is a mistake. Obama is quite skilled at reading public opinion and speaking to the needs of common citizens in a persuasive way. A few more months and we'll know who miscalculated. We may know before then if some shocking, negative deal-breaker comes out about either candidate, in which case the foregoing considerations won't matter much.
Posted by: McCain'sformercampaignmanager | May 30, 2008 4:22 PM
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Oh what else does Barack and his supporters have to say now ? How many more skeletons are hidden in the closet ? How long will it take for the "so called educated" folks of America to realize that it is extremely dangerous to hand over the most important job in the country to a person who has the most radical friends in the history of American Presidents - Bill Ayers , Jeremiah Wright , Michael Pfleger ...
Posted by: Ash | May 30, 2008 4:19 PM
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loulor:
I see. So anyone that doesn't vote for a black man is racist? That is some mighty infallible logic you have there. I have a newsflash for you. A person doesn't have to have white skin to be a racist.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 4:17 PM
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Berlinerblau,
Licking toilet bowls is a risky business. You can catch germs.
Posted by: Pierre Des | May 30, 2008 4:16 PM
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FredJones,
Of course you're racist. What else can anyone with more than three brain cells deduce from someone who tries to smear a perfectly legitimate candidate like Obama with a fool-preacher's comments on Hillary.
If you have no GOOD rationale for hating Obama, then it stands to reason you must have a BAD one. DUH!!!!!
Part of the proof that this web site and others like it are clogged with closet bigots like you is the fact that you guys never once mention Hillary -- the person whom Berlinerblau set out to make look good by trying to make Obama look bad. Nor do you mention anything else about his candidacy, other than your fear-based perception of Obama as a racist.
(You need to check Freud's theory of projection on that one. Were he here, he would tell you you can only perceive outside yourself what already exists inside.)
It's the old "any-forum-will-do" to Bash Obama, and the facts be damned. Worse yet, you guys will line up with anyone -- be they Tom DeLay born-again Christian-Zionist wackos, the KKK, AIPAC, or the YFFBTT (Young Fascists for a Bush Third Term) to spew your bile.
You and yours are remarkably transparent. Give it up!
Posted by: loulor | May 30, 2008 4:12 PM
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This is another phoney nonissue drummed up to try to discredit Obama What relevence does what someone sle has said pertain to Obama. I am glad that it was a whiter person that told the truth this time. Hillary has race baited and lied over and over. This white priest just told the truth. Or can't anyone criticize a white woman?
Posted by: Janet In San Diego | May 30, 2008 4:12 PM
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Berlinerblau...
You're SUCH a silly little jerk!
Posted by: Winston | May 30, 2008 4:11 PM
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Obama is done. He is not electable.
It will likely be John McCain in the White House.
He seems very presidential.
Posted by: John | May 30, 2008 4:05 PM
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McCain'sformercampaignmanager:
Obama was handled with kid gloves for most of the Democrat debates. Also, the Rev. Wright fiasco had not hit like a hurricane yet. The last one he was finally hit with hard questions and he folded like a cheap tent in a tornado. Why do you think he refused any further debates with Hillary? He knew he would be further damaged by them.
McCain has shown he is not afraid of any one on one dialog. He goes to any venue. He even appeared on the Ellen DeGeneres Show! I saw McCain do an hour on Hardball (hardly a friendly atmosphere) and he performed rather well. Seeing Obama next to McCain is not going to be good for Obama, IMO.
I agree that Bush performed poorly in his second debate with Kerry but he still won the election. I really don't see the relevance of comparing a Kerry-Bush debate to a McCain-Obama debate. I understand the left's desire to tie McCain to Bush but I really don't see that line of attack sticking to McCain much. He is about as far from being like Bush as one can get and still be labeled a Republican. Nearly anyone that isn't hard core liberal knows this is just left wing political spin and knows better than to believe it.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 4:02 PM
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Snore city Jacques... And how the Washington Post interprets another preacher and another sermon as news is mind boggling.
Posted by: David Strohm | May 30, 2008 4:01 PM
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To link Obama to someone else's comments is absurd. Did Obama say it? No he didn't and I'm sick of the white MSM making him have to denounce words he hasn't uttered. This white priest told the truth. People black and white and other minorities agree with his frank assessment of Hillary Clinton's antics.Your condemnation of him makes me think you are racist and that the truth shouldn't be told about a white woman.
Posted by: Janet In San Diego | May 30, 2008 4:00 PM
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YEAH, OBAMA BARELY KNEW PFLEGER: Rev. Michael Pfleger, the left-leaning Chicago Catholic priest who ridiculed Hillary Rodham Clinton this week in a racially-charged speech from the pulpit of Barack Obama's church, has contributed to Obama's state Senate campaigns, backed his ill-fated run for Congress and stumped for him in Iowa.
In a Chicago Tribune story a year ago, Obama defended special budget earmarks for his district while he was a state legislator, including ones that went to programs associated with Pfleger's church. Pfleger gave Obama's campaigns $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced at least $100,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs. Obama's spokesman, Ben LaBolt, was unable to say when Obama last spoke to Pfleger. LaBolt said Pfleger stepped down from the Catholics for Obama committee a few weeks ago, but he could not say why. He confirmed that Obama steered a $100,000 state grant in 2000 to a Pfleger-affiliated community program.
"Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, Obama says."
Last year, Pfleger invited the Rev. Louis Farrakhan to speak at his church, St. Sabina, which encompasses a large, inner city African American parish. Pfleger backed up Farrakhan in a 2006 controversy over some remarkable Farrakhan bile. Pfleger criticized a mass resignation of Jewish members on a state of Illinois hate crimes commission. Pfleger said "good riddance" to the people who had left the commission. "Leave, go ahead and go on out, we don't need that kind of a spirit or mentality and a narrowness on that kind of commission. I'm glad they're gone," Pfleger said.
Farrakhan said, "These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It's the wicked Jews, the false Jews that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality," and "Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government" over the war in Iraq.
Why in heavens' name was Obama supporting this guy? And putting him on his Catholic advisory council?
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 3:59 PM
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It's just so disappointing as a Democrat to see all the Obama supporters laughing and dancing on Hillary's grave - continuing to relish and feed on her carcass. The Clinton's aren't monsters so stop treating them that way. AND I won't forget your silence Pelosi and Reid.
Posted by: Amanda V. | May 30, 2008 3:59 PM
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The hypocrisy of people is just comical. Rev Wright had nothing to do with this issue and was invited to the White House by President Clinton for his charitable works. I refuse to condemn someone and throw everything they did for THEIR community out the window for over 20 years just because I disagreed with a comment they made and saw a snippet of a sermon done years ago, he may not be speaking for you but he was speaking for some people who came out of the Civil Rights era that were very hardened by their experiences and if you lived through that you same people would be pissed off as well. That was his right to say what was on his mind in thir community, 90% of the people reading this blog don't care one way or the other about what happens on the South Side of Chicago because it doesnt change or affect their lives, the church members there are not being brainwashed and they are intelligent enough to come up with their own beliefs. This was a WHITE CATHOLIC priest who made this distasteful comment during a guest sermon after another White Priest spoke of UNITY and common interests, so are you going to call him a racist. His words were very poorly chosen for the point he was trying to make, but the underlying part is he was right. HRC, was crying on national television to gain sympathy, because she felt it was too tough for her at the time and she felt victimixed, its politics so get a helmet. Did you ever see Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher crying on television, she wouldnt have given them the satisfaction. Then the next week, after NH feels bad for her and gives her a win, she TURNS into a gun totter, whiskey chugger, ROCK and champion for the so-called BLUE COLLAR WHITE WORKING CLASS, who just happened to fit the part of the country she was campaigning in, and tells Obama, "If he can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen." NEVERMIND that there are WHITE BLUE COLLAR WORKING CLASS people all over this country who supported Obama over her. She felt she was entitled to this nomination a year ago and never thought it would be an actual race, she was wrong and she has gotten beat. I don't feel sorry for the campaign she ran, and neither should anyone else who is practical in thinking. There will be a woman President someday, and it will be a woman who is a lot different than Hillary R. Clinton.
So there will be no Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton White House. Its time for new ideas, new thinking, new blood and new energy.
Obama may not be perfect, but so what none of these candidates are, but he has handled himself with class and dignity despite the long odds and he has come out on top and that is why he is winning and not why she LOST.
Go Obama...
Posted by: Thisissilly | May 30, 2008 3:54 PM
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Obama and his supporters, including this white pastor and the notorious black pastor Wright, are playing the race card to win the White House, but they will be disapponted. Obama denials from the remarks of his pastors,often called "spiritual advisors", are not credible. One has to only look at the huge non-African American vote disparity in favor of Hillary over Obama in North Carolina and Pennsylvania to realize that Obama could lose the white vote nationwide: a landslide McCain victory is quite possible.
Go McCain.
Posted by: Hanu | May 30, 2008 3:53 PM
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The hypocrisy of people is just comical. Rev Wright had nothing to do with this issue and was invited to the White House by President Clinton for his charitable works. I refuse to condemn someone and throw everything they did for THEIR community out the window for over 20 years just because I disagreed with a comment they made and saw a snippet of a sermon done years ago, he may not be speaking for you but he was speaking for some people who came out of the Civil Rights era that were very hardened by their experiences and if you lived through that you same people would be pissed off as well. That was his right to say what was on his mind in thir community, 90% of the people reading this blog don't care one way or the other about what happens on the South Side of Chicago because it doesnt change or affect their lives, the church members there are not being brainwashed and they are intelligent enough to come up with their own beliefs. This was a WHITE CATHOLIC priest who made this distasteful comment during a guest sermon after another White Priest spoke of UNITY and common interests, so are you going to call him a racist. His words were very poorly chosen for the point he was trying to make, but the underlying part is he was right. HRC, was crying on national television to gain sympathy, because she felt it was too tough for her at the time and she felt victimixed, its politics so get a helmet. Did you ever see Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher crying on television, she wouldnt have given them the satisfaction. Then the next week, after NH feels bad for her and gives her a win, she TURNS into a gun totter, whiskey chugger, ROCK and champion for the so-called BLUE COLLAR WHITE WORKING CLASS, who just happened to fit the part of the country she was campaigning in, and tells Obama, "If he can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen." NEVERMIND that there are WHITE BLUE COLLAR WORKING CLASS people all over this country who supported Obama over her. She felt she was entitled to this nomination a year ago and never thought it would be an actual race, she was wrong and she has gotten beat. I don't feel sorry for the campaign she ran, and neither should anyone else who is practical in thinking. There will be a woman President someday, and it will be a woman who is a lot different than Hillary R. Clinton.
So there will be no Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton White House. Its time for new ideas, new thinking, new blood and new energy.
Obama may not be perfect, but so what none of these candidates are, but he has handled himself with class and dignity despite the long odds and he has come out on top and that is why he is winning and not why she LOST.
Go Obama...
Posted by: Thisissilly | May 30, 2008 3:53 PM
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Obama and his supporters, including this white pastor and the notorious black pastor Wright, are playing the race card to win the White House, but they will be disapponted. Obama denials from the remarks of his pastors,often called "spiritual advisors", are not credible. One has to only look at the huge non-African American vote disparity in favor of Hillary over Obama in North Carolina and Pennsylvania to realize that Obama could lose the white vote nationwide: a landslide McCain victory is quite possible.
Go McCain.
Posted by: Hanu | May 30, 2008 3:53 PM
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Give me a break. I am Jewish, but I do not belong to any organized religious community largely because most organized religions are biased in a negative fashion against those outside their group.
Martin Luther was anti semitic and the early Catholic Church blamed the Jews for killing Jesus. Does that mean I should't vote for any candidate who is Christian?
I am way more worried about Hillary and her regular Washington insider prayer breakfasts with right wing evangelicals than I am about Obama and some comment made by some minister he happens to have had some affiliation with.
Posted by: Gail P. | May 30, 2008 3:52 PM
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The hypocrisy of people is just comical. Rev Wright had nothing to do with this issue and was invited to the White House by President Clinton for his charitable works. I refuse to condemn someone and throw everything they did for THEIR community out the window for over 20 years just because I disagreed with a comment they made and saw a snippet of a sermon done years ago, he may not be speaking for you but he was speaking for some people who came out of the Civil Rights era that were very hardened by their experiences and if you lived through that you same people would be pissed off as well. That was his right to say what was on his mind in thir community, 90% of the people reading this blog don't care one way or the other about what happens on the South Side of Chicago because it doesnt change or affect their lives, the church members there are not being brainwashed and they are intelligent enough to come up with their own beliefs. This was a WHITE CATHOLIC priest who made this distasteful comment during a guest sermon after another White Priest spoke of UNITY and common interests, so are you going to call him a racist. His words were very poorly chosen for the point he was trying to make, but the underlying part is he was right. HRC, was crying on national television to gain sympathy, because she felt it was too tough for her at the time and she felt victimixed, its politics so get a helmet. Did you ever see Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher crying on television, she wouldnt have given them the satisfaction. Then the next week, after NH feels bad for her and gives her a win, she TURNS into a gun totter, whiskey chugger, ROCK and champion for the so-called BLUE COLLAR WHITE WORKING CLASS, who just happened to fit the part of the country she was campaigning in, and tells Obama, "If he can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen." NEVERMIND that there are WHITE BLUE COLLAR WORKING CLASS people all over this country who supported Obama over her. She felt she was entitled to this nomination a year ago and never thought it would be an actual race, she was wrong and she has gotten beat. I don't feel sorry for the campaign she ran, and neither should anyone else who is practical in thinking. There will be a woman President someday, and it will be a woman who is a lot different than Hillary R. Clinton.
So there will be no Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton White House. Its time for new ideas, new thinking, new blood and new energy.
Obama may not be perfect, but so what none of these candidates are, but he has handled himself with class and dignity despite the long odds and he has come out on top and that is why he is winning and not why she LOST.
Go Obama...
Posted by: Thisissilly | May 30, 2008 3:52 PM
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Does this mean that anytime someone makes an unflattering comment or statement about either of the democratic nominees either one or both are reponsible, for that which had be said?
Posted by: Jonathan | May 30, 2008 3:51 PM
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This pales in comparison tho the Wright controversy.
White America can't stand an angry black man, but the angry white man is an accepted and embraced part of our cultural heritage.
Two weeks from now it will be a distant memory.
Posted by: stratzrus | May 30, 2008 3:49 PM
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Ok... so another jerk plays to the crowd at Trinity in front of a cell phone camera. Obama deplores, the jerk apologizes, and you think Obama is sincere but... what is the point of this column?
Here is a bit of truth... there is no such thing as a universal unifier. There are always those who oppose- that's how it is supposed to work. My conclusion from this little bit of writen misdirection is that you oppose Obama, want to draw attention to his flaws, but at the same time you want to seem to be even-handed.
Actually, that is one of the things I don't particularly like about Obama. He has the same habit of sticking the knife in while acting like a choirboy. (In his book he said that Bill Clinton executed a mentally disabled man for political gain- an absurd twistng of the facts.)
I don't care for the pseudo-sanctimony when you do it either. Frankly, the loudmouthed are in their coarse way, more honest.
Posted by: irish jazz | May 30, 2008 3:48 PM
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Let's get a few facts straight here. The speaker in question is a Catholic priest and NOT even a member of Obama's church. He was a visiting speaker. Are all feminsts to blame for the bitter racist remarks of Geraldine Ferraro? How about blaming all gays for the perverts that ride around on those floats at "gay pride" celebrations? Nope. Most people are decent moderates. If this is another "pastor disaster", then anyone at any time is be blamed for anything anyone says within their hearing.
Posted by: Mike Brooks | May 30, 2008 3:46 PM
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JAY: How dare you post facts about Obama's dubious associations on this blog !! I hereby order all you Obama minions to immediately attack and insult Jay with reckless abandon. And if that doesn't work, then call him a racist. That always works, doesn't it? Ah, but why am I telling you this. You Obama supporters know the drill.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 3:44 PM
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I give up trying to get on here.
Posted by: Bernie | May 30, 2008 3:44 PM
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Perhaps those who say we don't know enough about Senator Obama are right. There are certainly plenty of red flags. It amazes me that a man with so little experience and so many ties to anti-American radicals and black racists can even be considered for president - only by the Democratic Party, I suppose. If the super-delegates have an ounce of good judgement, they will nominate Senator Clinton.
Posted by: N.L. | May 30, 2008 3:43 PM
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The central issue here is not about votes and elections, but about the Roman Catholic Priesthood.
As a born, once, RC, I prepared something on the above idea, but couldn't get it sent here.
I will try this,and if it gets through, I will tell you all what I think the issues are. I am a former Director of Catholic Charities.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 3:43 PM
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It smells like the return of McCarthyism.
It's only a week after Memorial Day.
What did those heroes die for?
Posted by: dummy | May 30, 2008 3:43 PM
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Obama’s associates and supporters are not ready for an African American president and obviously even less ready for a woman president. This campaign has been horrible. It has exposed racism and sexism at its worst in America. I am sorry, but I can no longer make excuses for Obama, his associates, or his supporters.
On one more thing. I treat everyone as an individual without regard to color, gender, or religion. I owe nobody for anything I personally was not involved in. I find it
repulsive that anyone can believe the words of this priest
are a productive means to move this world forward in harmony.
Posted by: Dave | May 30, 2008 3:42 PM
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Obama’s associates and supporters are not ready for an African American president and obviously even less ready for a woman president. This campaign has been horrible. It has exposed racism and sexism at its worst in America. I am sorry, but I can no longer make excuses for Obama, his associates, or his supporters.
On one more thing. I treat everyone as an individual without regard to color, gender, or religion. I owe nobody for anything I personally was not involved in. I find it
repulsive that anyone can believe the words of this priest
are a productive means to move this world forward in harmony.
Posted by: Dave | May 30, 2008 3:42 PM
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Obiewan:
I suppose you feel that Bush (who was nearly laughed off the stage) won the debates with Kerry? I predict that you are in for a shock, as Obama will be far superior to McCain in a debate.
Posted by: McCain'sformercampaignmanager | May 30, 2008 3:42 PM
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I sometimes wonder if some of these journalist aren't like third rate journalist. We are tired of pettiness.
Posted by: James | May 30, 2008 3:41 PM
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The superdelegates should now have a clear picture of the longtime advisors Obama has surrounded himself with... Wright (20 years), Rezco (20 years) Ayers (20years), Pfleger (20 years). These chosen advisors are the best indicators of the views that he holds, the judgement he exercises, the choices he makes and how he would make decisions if elected.
Knowing all these facts, should the superdelegates disregard the will of the people and select Obama as the nominee, despite the fact that Clinton won more votes, (the way the Supreme Court selected Bush as President), the Party will get what it deserves which is a complete crack-up. Once the books are complete about how Obama tried to dupe America, the supers that supported him will all be sent packing.
"He attends the 11 a.m. Sunday service at Trinity in the Brainerd neighborhood every week -- or at least as many weeks as he is able. His pastor, Wright, has become a close confidant."
"The biggest challenge, I think, is always maintaining your moral compass."
Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, he says."
Another person Obama says he seeks out for spiritual counsel is state Sen. James Meeks, who is also the pastor of Chicago's Salem Baptist Church.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/726619,obamafalsani040504.article
"Rev. Michael Pfleger is a longtime friend and associate of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois. In September, the Obama campaign brought Pfleger to Iowa to host one of several interfaith forums for the campaign.
Their relationship spans decades. Pfleger has given money to Obama's campaigns and Obama as a state legislator directed at least $225,000 towards social programs at St. Sabina's, according to the Chicago Tribune. One of those long-time supporters was Rev. Michael Pfleger, the politically active leader of St. Sabina Church. He gave Obama's campaign $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced $225,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs."
"Pfleger has drawn fire from some quarters for defending the Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and inviting him to speak at his church."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/priest-and-obam.html
"Pfleger said Obama told him that he didn't want criticism of Wright to detract from the big day. "I told him I thought it was the wrong decision," Pfleger said in an interview."
"One of those long-time supporters was Rev. Michael Pfleger, the politically active leader of St. Sabina Church. He gave Obama's campaign $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced $225,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs."
Posted by: Jay | May 30, 2008 3:40 PM
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Oh and the tooth fairy called me a B as she put a nickle under my pillow...and anybody who goes near this tooth fairy is identifying with child abusers...does that sound ridiculous that is just how ridiculous all of this gotcha business is with these ministers.. nonsense I tell you..nonsense//anything to steer Americans away from the real issues of an warranted war and John McCain and his senior moments..
Posted by: Jennifer | May 30, 2008 3:39 PM
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Guilt by association? What planet did all you Obama supporters fly in from? If McCain sat in a church for 20 years that was run by David Duke you would be insane and frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs. When Obama does the equivalent you just look the other way and make excuses for him. The hypocrisy of Obama supporters are is epic in scope and size. You all just keep whistling past the grave yard on this matter. You have seen how white America has taken his choice of spiritual mentor and church. Look at the voting trends in Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky etc. Obama is being seen more and more as a better educated, slicker talking, better dressed version of Al Sharpton. Over the next few months Obama will be exposed further for what he really is and it won't be good for him. When he speakers without the benefit of a teleprompter he is his own worst enemy. Wait until he has to debate McCain. It won't be pretty for him and he can't get away from doing it either like he has with Hillary.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 3:37 PM
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TO ANY BRAVE OBAMA SUPPORTER: The purpose of the following question was to see if one's associations or those who one considers to be their "mentors" should ever come into play when analyzing one's suitability as a candidate.
QUESTION: If you found out that a Presidential candidate whose public statements were more than acceptable to you, considered Adolf Hitler to be his historical mentor, would that be relevant to you when deciding whether he was a suitable candidate for the Presidency? Stand up to the plate. It's an easy yes or no question.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 3:35 PM
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The Hillary people should quit complaining. She needs to shut up, sit down, and get out of the race. Her supporters need to tow the line, now.
Posted by: joe g | May 30, 2008 3:34 PM
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A suggestion to clergy:
Preach the Gospel message sincerely. It is your duty. But seal your lips on matters of politics when doing so, and at all times inside a church. Otherwise, you are bound to offend, and you cannot exhibit the lovingkindness of our Lord while simultaneously being offensive to people, even to those with whom you might not agree. Heed what the letter of James says about controlling the tongue.
Yours in Christ,
Anon. R.C. Bisop
Posted by: Anonymous R.C. Bishop | May 30, 2008 3:33 PM
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Well, the Libscum wanted BO and along with him come the "haters", racists and sexists.
Posted by: Not_A_Libscum | May 30, 2008 3:33 PM
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What a tragedy this election cycle is. For almost eight years, I've been planning a celebration for when George Bush leaves office. I had thought that the Democrats would nominate an acceptable candidate, and we could go about the business of repairing this country. Then, Obama came out of nowhere. At first, before I knew much about him, I had a favorable opinion of him. However, after much research, I found him to be the most deceptive, ruthless and divisive candidate in my lifetime. That is why, if he is the nominee, I will be casting my first ever vote for a Republican for President.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 3:33 PM
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How much did Hillary's campaign pay him?
Posted by: lskloven | May 30, 2008 3:29 PM
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Common Freakin' Sense:
That does it! If Obama is anti-vegetarian, I am no longer going to vote for him.
Posted by: FormerObaman | May 30, 2008 3:29 PM
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OBIEWAN: You are right on target.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 3:27 PM
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I heard that the woman that substituted for Obama's cleaning lady last month doesn't like vegetables! Does that mean that because Obama let this person into his house and let her clean his bathroom that he hates vegetables too?! I hate people that don't eat healthy and therefore I will not vote for Obama.
What the hell is wrong with people? This story is offensively stupid.
Posted by: common freakin' sense | May 30, 2008 3:22 PM
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I am so SICK and TIRED of hearing journalists write about how what happens at Trinity is "damaging" or "hurting" Barack Obama.
TRINITY DOES NOT EXIST TO SERVE BARACK OBAMA! BARACK OBAMA IS NOT THE ONLY MEMBER OF TRINITY! TRINITY'S PULPIT IS NEITHER HOSTAGE NOR CAPTIVE TO THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN!
Trinity has thousands of other members. Trinity has a right to remain true to itself and its traditions regardless of Obama's campaign. Trinity's congregants have a right to hear whatever message its preachers and guests bring to the pulpit.
You say Obama has "pastor problems"??? Well guess what? Trinity has politician problems. Trinity can't be what it is in peace because a foolish politician hitched his @*&! name to it. I'M SICK AND TIRED OF IT!! Obama did not found Trinity, Obama does not own Trinity, and Obama does not dictate what happens at Trinity. PERIOD!!
Posted by: Candice | May 30, 2008 3:22 PM
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It is amusing that Obama apologists call Wright and Pfleger "crazy old men," and yet fail to see why it is relevant that a Presidential candidate would have considered one of these "crazy old men" to be his "mentor and spiritual adviser" for 20 years. To suggest that this does not bear upon his character and judgment is to stick one's head in the sand. The bottom line: Obama must be stopped. If he is the Democratic nominee, then come November he will be facing the Republicans, as well as millions of Democrats who polls show will not vote for him under any circumstances. Better a centrist Republican (tempered by a Democratic House and Senate), than an inexperienced, ruthless, deceptive, and divisive Obama.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 3:22 PM
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Obama is going to have a very difficult time separating himself from the racist views of his church for the past 20 years. We now see that it just isn't the Rev. Wright that holds these views, it is the entire Trinity Church. When these racist rants are preached there by anyone standing in the pulpit the congregation eats the dialog up like pigs at a slop trough. Obama is a member of that congregation and has been for 20 years so we must assume he is comfortable mingling with this overtly racist group. He even lets his wife and children be exposed to racism on a weekly basis.
He either believes the racist hate promoted at this church and/or he used his association with it to further his political career on the state level. Now his membership in this church has become a HUGE liability and he can't extricate himself from them. Obama is a phony no matter what you believe about his reasons for attending Trinity Church. Either that or he is the most clueless person that ever set foot into that church. No matter what the truth really is it automatically disqualifies him from holding the office of President of the United States.
Posted by: MikeJ9116 | May 30, 2008 3:19 PM
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Obama is going to have a very difficult time separating himself from the racist views of his church for the past 20 years. We now see that it just isn't the Rev. Wright that holds these views, it is the entire Trinity Church. When these racist rants are preached there by anyone standing in the pulpit the congregation eats the dialog up like pigs at a slop trough. Obama is a member of that congregation and has been for 20 years so we must assume he is comfortable mingling with this overtly racist group. He even lets his wife and children be exposed to racism on a weekly basis.
He either believes the racist hate promoted at this church and/or he used his association with it to further his political career on the state level. Now his membership in this church has become a HUGE liability and he can't extricate himself from them. Obama is a phony no matter what you believe about his reasons for attending Trinity Church. Either that or he is the most clueless person that ever set foot into that church. No matter what the truth really is it automatically disqualifies him from holding the office of President of the United States.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 3:18 PM
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Obama is going to have a very difficult time separating himself from the racist views of his church for the past 20 years. We now see that it just isn't the Rev. Wright that holds these views, it is the entire Trinity Church. When these racist rants are preached there by anyone standing in the pulpit the congregation eats the dialog up like pigs at a slop trough. Obama is a member of that congregation and has been for 20 years so we must assume he is comfortable mingling with this overtly racist group. He even lets his wife and children be exposed to racism on a weekly basis.
He either believes the racist hate promoted at this church and/or he used his association with it to further his political career on the state level. Now his membership in this church has become a HUGE liability and he can't extricate himself from them. Obama is a phony no matter what you believe about his reasons for attending Trinity Church. Either that or he is the most clueless person that ever set foot into that church. No matter what the truth really is it automatically disqualifies him from holding the office of President of the United States.
Posted by: obiewan | May 30, 2008 3:17 PM
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both here and on cable news, the premise is taken for granted that pfleger is a "nut" - with little consideration of the content of his critique. Berlinbauer makes the same mistake, as do many of the many commenters here who declare a "crazy priest" "leftwing," etc. Certainly, his style, employing exaggeration and satire are certainly less common in many religious denominations, but are quite prevalent in the black church -- and hallelujah for that. His central point, that Hillary has acted as if the presidency was owed to her might be reflective of white privilege. The Clinton campaign should put to rest the myth of Bill C. as the first "black president." a white "black" president can turn on a dime, and be white when it's convenient (e.g. vote for my wife, or we'll lost the white racist vote in the general).
the substance of his comment -- that hillary acted as if entitled to the presidency (or at least the nomination) has been well supported by those close to her (not just her critics). That such an attitude might be be shaped from all the benefits of being white in a society as structured by race seems obvious on its face. calling attention to it should not make one "left of Castro" as Berlinerbrau puts it -- just left of David Duke.
Posted by: profbty | May 30, 2008 3:16 PM
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COREY SAID: For all of you on here crying, "guilt by asociation", you obviously had no qualms about Ron Reagan announcing his candidacy from Philadelphia, Mississippi(while touting "States Rights"- the mantra which was a constant refrain for those who did not want to see Jim Crow die) where three young college students were killed by the KKK because they were involved in the Civil Rights Movement. To this day, most of you cannot comprehend why that action by President Reagan offended so many blacks. Pathetic!
I, FOR ONE, AM OFFENDED BY ANY RACISM, FROM ANY SOURCE. That is why I am so opposed to Obama's racist black liberation theology. Here is a statement about this so-called "religion" from one of its founders, James H. Cone:
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.”
REV. WRIGHT considers James Cone to be his theological mentor; and Obama's church recommends and distributes the book from which the above quote came.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 3:15 PM
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I've just about had enough of Obama. Something just doesn't smell right about this guy. I guess I just don't suffer frauds well.
Posted by: muskrat | May 30, 2008 3:14 PM
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Is this the best/worst you can do? You can come to my house and watch me ridicule Hillary, as well. And I'm neither a communist, a member or supporter of al-Qaida, a mysoginist, a child molester or a purse snatcher.
I don't like Hillary because she doesn't have an authentic bone in her body.
I don't like you for the same reason. Your piece sounds like it comes from one of those smarmy, wild-eyed "Oh-my-God-HE(Obama)-is-going-to-hurt-Israel" shrill AIPAC types who would stoop to any pretext, no matter how scurrilous, to try to smear Obama by association.
Get a life!
Posted by: loulor | May 30, 2008 3:12 PM
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Whatever happened to Free Speech? Whenever a bully pulpit spits out a whopper, folks in other faiths work up a sweat. Why not adopt a protocol that says, "what is said in church, stays in church"? This protocol is similiar to "don't ask, don't tell" regarding gays in the army (gasp!).
Do we really need to be concerned with "crazy 'ole men" in the local church? These men are not running for governor or mayor. I agree the statements of Father Pleger are wrong, and yet, he does not control brother Obama.
I doubt if Father Pleger speaks for all Catholics. I am not a practicing Catholic, but from what I read in the news Catholics are not uniformly agreed on basic human rights. For instance, some Catholic priests have abused children, and the Pope apologized for this violation of human rights. If a parishioner attends a mass conducted by a child abusing priest, does that mean the parishioner is "quilty by association"?
When Bush attends a Christian church (is it Methodist?) and listens to a pastor speaking on Jesus' topic, "love your neighbor, as yourself", does that mean Bush will come out loving Muslims? His recent visit to Israel would show otherwise. Muslims did not feel the love!
We need not make our local churches partisan actors. History teaches that each faith has "crazy ideas" that come and go. These are simply opinions, these "wacky" ideas are not exactly the TEN COMMANDMENTS -- a long-standing moral code that feels enduring to me.
Perhaps the commandment, "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" is helpful. The national debate about "guilt by association" could be considered as breaking the "false witness" commandment.
Maybe folks are afraid of Obama and will not vote for a Black man. But that is an echo from a dark past when slave owners used torture and fear to control people. Today there are many outstanding Black citizens who contribute in government at all levels: city, state, federal. Colin Powell and Condi Rice are well respected Secretary of State -- and both Black (gasp!).
I am excited to vote for Obama. Not because he is Black. Not because he goes to church. Not even because he likes basketball. Not because he is married with children. Not because he is a Democrat (progressive gasp!). I vote for Obama simply because that is my choice.
No one need vote for Obama because of what their priest says about Hillary. No one need vote for Obama because of what John McCain says about military sacrifice. No one need vote for Obama because of what their pastor says about gays/lesbians. No one need vote for Obama because he is Black.
Vote for whomever YOU choose. Make your own choice. Nothing will change if you don't listen to you own heart. If you are an undecided voter (as described in this blog), then at least make a choice to vote in November. Vote however you choose -- that is YOUR right (privilege enacted by U.S. Law)
Posted by: Richard | May 30, 2008 3:10 PM
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A pastor he is not! He is a Roman Catholic Priest.
And an unbalanced one at that. Where do they find these crazies? The 'windy city' has new meaning!!
Posted by: Jeff Crocket | May 30, 2008 3:10 PM
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TO ANY BRAVE OBAMA SUPPORTER: The purpose of the following question was to see if one's associations or those who one considers to be their "mentors" should ever come into play when analyzing one's suitability as a candidate.
QUESTION: If you found out that a Presidential candidate whose public statements were more than acceptable to you, considered Adolf Hitler to be his historical mentor, would that be relevant to you when deciding whether he was a suitable candidate for the Presidency? Stand up to the plate. It's an easy yes or no question.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 3:09 PM
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So now, whenever someone from Barack Obama's church comments about Hillary Clinton, it's as though the words came directly from Obama's mouth?
Isn't this getting to be more and more ridiculous?
What if every person who lived in a neighborhood where known racist live, should everybody on the block be considered prejudice?
For every person who has a colleague, associate, church member, golfing partner that does not share warm views about African Americans and other minorities, should that person be considered prejudice? Should they move out of their neighborhoods? Leave their church? Change jobs? Or join a different country club?
Apply this logic and it's pretty clear that Barack Obama and thousands of others have people who have been in our lives at one time or another that don't represent who we really are.
We can't isolate ourselves from those people.
They will always reside in neighborhoods.
Sit on boards. Serve as community leaders, social activist and even in the clergy.
And since none of us can run away from reality along these lines, why should we expect that of Barack Obama?
Posted by: Joe | May 30, 2008 3:08 PM
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For all of you on here crying, "guilt by asociation", you obviously had no qualms about Ron Reagan announcing his candidacy from Philadelphia, Mississippi(while touting "States Rights"- the mantra which was a constant refrain for those who did not want to see Jim Crow die) where three young college students were killed by the KKK because they were involved in the Civil Rights Movement. To this day, most of you cannot comprehend why that action by President Reagan offended so many blacks. Pathetic!
Posted by: Corey | May 30, 2008 3:08 PM
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They are not Men of God.Just like the average stripper they merely entertain the crowd in the church for a living.It is Obama's mistake to take them as Men of God and import them into his electoral discourse.
Posted by: Jabli Izvesti | May 30, 2008 3:06 PM
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This is much ado about nothing. Obama can not control what comes out of other peoples mouth's. I will say however, that the gist of the pastors comments were probably more on point than not.
It is clear that Clinton had a sense of entitlement regarding her run for the Whitehouse. Why? Well probably because she is an president's wife, had a substantial donor base, served in the Senate, and very few effective candidates to run against, so she thought. When Obama stepped into the ring, I'm also convinced that he was not considered a significant threat primarily because he was not a white male.
If the media keeps this play on pastor's words up, I suspect that it will eventually open the flood gates for the display of poor word choices from pastors of all ilk. It will not be pretty.
Posted by: Dave | May 30, 2008 3:05 PM
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Phleger is a nut case. Don't waste too much breath on him. I say that as a Catholic and an Obama supporter.
The apology is meaningless. Any idiot could see that what he did, especially at this time, was going to blow up and be used to tar Obama.
Posted by: MikeinPhilly | May 30, 2008 3:03 PM
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DEE TATE: You either intentionally missed my point, or you merely didn't see it. The purpose of the question was to see if one's associations or those who one considers to be their "mentors" should ever come into play when analyzing one's suitability as a candidate.
So, what's the answer: If you found out that a Presidential candidate whose public statements were more than acceptable to you, considered Adolf Hitler to be his historical mentor, would that be relevant to you when deciding whether he was a suitable candidate for the Presidency? Stand up to the plate. It's an easy yes or no question.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 3:03 PM
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This is not on Obama, and while some of you do not want to admit it there are plenty of us out here that agree with the pastor. At a time when we have the issues we do I could care less about what the pastor said about Hilliary Clinton. Talking about this takes away from what we should be talking about. A war that should be clear to everyone now was waged based on lies, the fact that over 4000 men and women have lost their lives, over 37,000 returning home injured, sucides at an alltime high for troops, gas prices through the roof, people losing their homes and forget about being able to afford health care. Get over it people!
Posted by: Tee | May 30, 2008 3:00 PM
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"I don’t doubt that the Senator’s aforementioned words of regret are sincere. I don’t doubt that he truly deplores this type of rhetoric."
Brother.
All that's missing from that classic snark is a prefatory "As far as I know..."
Obama disassociated himself from Rev. Pfleger's remarks in the blink of an eye. What now shall he do? Send out a team of hit men just to demonstrate his sincerity?
Nothing, absolutely nothing, can satisfy people who are looking under rocks to find the worst about anyone. For this sort of nastiness to be posted in a forum ostensibly dealing with matters of faith is more than a little disturbing.
Posted by: Andy Moursund | May 30, 2008 2:58 PM
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To the person who asked the question about how we would feel if the candidate we felt were acceptable looked up to Adolph Hitler: Your statement/question is ridiculous. Neither one of these candidates said that they looked up to Hitler, so for you to try to focus on a "what if" scenario leads me to believe you are extremely narrow minded. It's time to look at what is not the "what ifs". Yeah, yeah, you said "IF", but didn't that word "IF" get us in this damn war that won't end! We as a people need to stop trying to make "what ifs" into something that wil hurt us or someone else in the end. Remember 4000+ have lost their lives over "WHAT IF"
Posted by: Dee Tate | May 30, 2008 2:57 PM
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QUESTION FOR OBAMA SUPPORTERS: I'M JUST WONDERING, if you found out that a Presidential candidate whose public statements were more than acceptable to you, considered Adolf Hitler to be his historical mentor, would that be relevant to you when deciding whether he was a suitable candidate for the Presidency?
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:57 PM
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To the person who asked the question about how we would feel if the candidate we felt were acceptable looked up to Adolph Hitler: Your statement/question is ridiculous. Neither one of these candidates said that they looked up to Hitler, so for you to try to focus on a "what if" scenario leads me to believe you are extremely narrow minded. It's time to look at what is not the "what ifs". Yeah, yeah, you said "IF", but didn't that word "IF" get us in this damn war that won't end! We as a people need to stop trying to make "what ifs" into something that wil hurt us or someone else in the end. Remember 4000+ have lost their lives over "WHAT IF"
Posted by: Dee Tate | May 30, 2008 2:56 PM
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Sometime the truth hurts. Everyone who has been around Washington or politics over the years. Knows that since Bill left office, that this was supposed to be Hillary's year. With a Gore win or not.
No one talks about how starting in October, she and her staff verberally thought and acted like the nomination was going to be completed by Super Tuesday. Then ran a horrible process to get elected!
Now that her plan are shot to hell, she is acting like a person that cannot belive that this young person from out of know were is stealing my thunder. This has happen to all of us at some point in time, it just that we are not allowed to mentioned the race of our base support in the office or on the fields. We just use the code words.
If possible go to youtube and listen and watch Tim Wise White Privilege. I may not agree with all he is saying, however it made me think about thing in a different way.
Stop blaming other people for your fears or misgivings about Obama. He seems to at least given people some hope and unfortunately Hilary has not and could not. If it was not Obama it would be Edwards. It was just not Hilary's time.
ES
Posted by: ES | May 30, 2008 2:56 PM
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nice article here....just mentioned the newest obama problems with his preachers to a coworker at lunch, and his comment was that obama is like teflon, nothing sticks, so whether any of this current flap will have any effect remains to be seen...altho the effect certainly is cumulative in that it reenforces doubt about who, really, is the true obama......
Posted by: dave | May 30, 2008 2:56 PM
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nice article here....just mentioned the newest obama problems with his preachers to a coworker at lunch, and his comment was that obama is like teflon, nothing sticks, so whether any of this current flap will have any effect remains to be seen...altho the effect certainly is cumulative in that it reenforces doubt about who, really, is the true obama......
Posted by: dave | May 30, 2008 2:55 PM
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Correction:
The problem with MANY people in this world, whether they're black, white, hispanic, male, female, young, and old, whatever, is that they truly have never never heard the gospel of Jesus the Christ. And for many of us who have WE certainly don't act like it. This is nothing new and you have seen nothing yet. However, if you want some help in understanding what's going on today read the Book of Jeremiah and see why God called him even though there were other Priest.
Posted by: The Gospel Truth | May 30, 2008 2:55 PM
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Correction:
The problem with MANY people in this world, whether they're black, white, hispanic, male, female, young, and old, whatever, is that they truly have never never heard the gospel of Jesus the Christ. And for many of us who have WE certainly don't act like it. This is nothing new and you have seen nothing yet. However, if you want some help in understanding what's going on today read the Book of Jeremiah and see why God called him even though there were other Priest.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:54 PM
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This is a video response to Obama's Church: Why Hillary Cried - Father Michael Pfleger
Posted by: watch it | May 30, 2008 2:51 PM
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Why is Obama responsible for the words of a white Catholic priest? He is not even Catholic.
Let's say that 1 million people have signed up to support Obama. The media will have us believe that he represents all of these people. If anyone of those 1 million people say anything negative or nasty it is Obama's fault? That is just silly.
Posted by: Erika | May 30, 2008 2:50 PM
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I've had my fill of judging the candidates by the words of others in their lives - even pastors or husbands. Let he/she who is without others in their lives making idiotic or scandalous remarks cast the first stone!
Posted by: K. Frances Clarke | May 30, 2008 2:50 PM
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We're supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year "mentor and spiritual adviser." We're supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who, in a fiery sermon, claimed retired pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright was "lynched" by the media and compared the embattled pastor to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. government was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading the AIDS virus to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to ignore Obama's friend and patron of 17 years, the indicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama's equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama's long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.
Just how many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:49 PM
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I've had my fill of judging the candidates by the words of others in their lives - even pastors or husbands. Let he/she who is without others in their lives making idiotic or scandalous remarks cast the first stone!
Posted by: K. Frances Clarke | May 30, 2008 2:48 PM
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Senator Obama should not be held accountable for something a former or current associate might say. But it does cause me to wonder why the senator has associated with persons such as this priest, Wright, and Ayers -- the unrepentant radical.
The truly sad thing is that people in this Chicago congregation should be hearing the word of God in church, and messages of hope and forgiveness, not messages of resentment and vengence.
Posted by: Bill Tirell | May 30, 2008 2:48 PM
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Who is paying these people to sink Obama? Have they made a deal with the devil, or maybe a pre-school that will leave them unattended there?
Posted by: epthorn | May 30, 2008 2:46 PM
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I think you yourself are racisst. Is it the candidate's fault that some people in America are still racist today and will not vote for him because he is black? Not to mention that he is not even that black but has half of white and half of white blood? Yet, in the eyes of these conservatives, he is still black!! How racist can you be? Yet you ask him why he is not winning over these people as if it is his fault?About pastors, surely, you cannot control everybody's thoughts about what happened n the past and what they see around when they walk the streets! priests are expeted to say the truth about what they see. Remember katrina???? Did you like what you say in America of all places in this world? Are you proud of being that america, where even Cuba saw your weakness and offered help which you refused because of shame???
Posted by: pauline | May 30, 2008 2:46 PM
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Senator Obama should not be held accountable for something a former or current associate might say. But it does cause me to wonder why the senator has associated with persons such as this priest, Wright, and Ayers -- the unrepentant radical.
The truly sad thing is that people in this Chicago congregation should be hearing the word of God in church, and messages of hope and forgiveness, not messages of resentment and vengence.
Posted by: Bill Tirell | May 30, 2008 2:46 PM
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He's (Michael Pfleger) is just a white uncle tom preaching to the choir. Telling them what they want to hear not what they need to hear. Free speech here but this crosses the line and they should lose their tax exempt status if they want to play politics. Since it's pretty obvious it's a publicity stunt to get money at Obamas expence.
Posted by: dean | May 30, 2008 2:45 PM
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Welcome to the world of Obama supporters. It's not pretty. I would suggest you get out while you can. I can hardly wait until the unsuspecting potential voters in the general election have the wrath of the Obama supporters unleashed on them. If they have vilified the Clintons and the last two terms of the last Democratic Presidency we've had to the degree they have then you can only imagine how vile they will be to the supporters outside their own party. If they are as dismissive and abusive to the 49% of the Democratic party that doesn't support their candidate I can only imagine the slime they'll be spouting at the McCain supporters. They consider half of the Democratic party racist, low class, moronic, toothless wonders, uneducated and heaven forbid you're from a State that didn't go for Obama, then you're nothing but ####. Oh well, at least they aren't elitist. The only satisfaction will be that they will lose the general election for their candidate by separating this party and generating an exodus to McCain that will bring him over the top.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:44 PM
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Whatever happened to Free Speech? Whenever a bully pulpit spits out a whopper, folks in other faiths work up a sweat. Why not adopt a protocol that says, "what is said in church, stays in church"? This protocol is similiar to "don't ask, don't tell" regarding gays in the army (gasp!).
Do we really need to be concerned with "crazy 'ole men" in the local church? These men are not running for governor or mayor. I agree the statements of Father Pleger are wrong, and yet, he does not control brother Obama.
I doubt if Father Pleger speaks for all Catholics. I am not a practicing Catholic, but from what I read in the news Catholics are not uniformly agreed on basic human rights. For instance, some Catholic priests have abused children, and the Pope apologized for this violation of human rights. If a parishioner attends a mass conducted by a child abusing priest, does that mean the parishioner is "quilty by association"?
When Bush attends a Christian church (is it Methodist?) and listens to a pastor speaking on Jesus' topic, "love your neighbor, as yourself", does that mean Bush will come out loving Muslims? His recent visit to Israel would show otherwise. Muslims did not feel the love!
We need not make our local churches partisan actors. History teaches that each faith has "crazy ideas" that come and go. These are simply opinions, these "wacky" ideas are not exactly the TEN COMMANDMENTS -- a long-standing moral code that feels enduring to me.
Perhaps the commandment, "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" is helpful. The national debate about "guilt by association" could be considered as breaking the "false witness" commandment.
Maybe folks are afraid of Obama and will not vote for a Black man. But that is an echo from a dark past when slave owners used torture and fear to control people. Today there are many outstanding Black citizens who contribute in government at all levels: city, state, federal. Colin Powell and Condi Rice are well respected Secretary of State -- and both Black (gasp!).
I am excited to vote for Obama. Not because he is Black. Not because he goes to church. Not even because he likes basketball. Not because he is married with children. Not because he is a Democrat (progressive gasp!). I vote for Obama simply because that is my choice.
No one need vote for Obama because of what their priest says about Hillary. No one need vote for Obama because of what John McCain says about military sacrifice. No one need vote for Obama because of what their pastor says about gays/lesbians. No one need vote for Obama because he is Black.
Vote for whomever YOU choose. Make your own choice. Nothing will change if you don't listen to you own heart. If you are an undecided voter (as described in this blog), then at least make a choice to vote in November. Vote however you choose -- that is YOUR right (privilege enacted by U.S. Law)
Posted by: Richard | May 30, 2008 2:43 PM
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O God America is full of crazy pastors. Another mad one after Wright, Hagee, Parsely and who's next? why can't they define their limits, religion or politics. It's a pity how the political establishment has manged to manipulate the clerics to sell the religion to politicians by seeking their endorsements. This is a sign of a serious decay of American social institutions both political and religious. God save America!!!
Posted by: Pagan Bol | May 30, 2008 2:43 PM
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He's (Michael Pfleger) is just a white uncle tom preaching to the choir. Telling them what they want to hear not what they need to hear. Free speech here but this crosses the line and they should lose their tax exempt status if they want to play politics. Since it's pretty obvious it's a publicity stunt to get money at Obamas expence.
Posted by: dean | May 30, 2008 2:42 PM
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Obama’s Religion – Rev. Wright preaches black liberation theology, a racist theology based upon the conflict between the "black oppressed" and the "white oppressor". That's why Wright portrays Jesus as black, and his murderers as white, because that is the only way the story of Jesus will fit with his theology.
I would recommend that you research black liberation theology, and in particular, the writings of James Cone. Wright acknowledges that Cone is one of his theological mentors, and the church's website recommends his book "Black Theology and Black Power." Here are a few of Cone’s quotes:
1. To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people.
2. While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism.
3. Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 2:42 PM
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Why don't you talk about Hagee! More coverage on Wright and less about Hagee! His comments are way more radical! Get real!
Posted by: matto | May 30, 2008 2:42 PM
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This article is pure trash. It's amazing that a "universtity scholar's exploration and debate" concerning "religion in the news" could be as mindless as the latest Olberman/OReilly feud.
For example: Berlinerblau asks, "Fourth, and most importantly[!], what will be the fallout for the Obama campaign?" Where does he come off saying that political fallout is the "most important" issue? The Post is a newspaper not a racing form! If people want the horse race version of political 'journalism,' they don't need a Professor of Jewish Civilization. They need Bill OReilly, who's experience on Entertainment Tonight makes him far more qualified to spew garbage like that.
Not only that but Berlinerblau seems to mock Obama for asking that comments made in the Black Church be understood in context. As the resident expert on religion, it's Berlinerblau's job to help provide a context for understanding complex topics such as Black Liberation Theology. Instead he writes off context entirely and gives us the same mindless trash we could find on cable news.
In the following paragraph, Berlinerblau further demonstrates his lack of insight when he says, "in a general election a presidential candidate typically moves to the center. It is now going to be even harder for Obama to do that since America keeps seeing footage of his friends who stand to the left of Fidel Castro." What sort of left/right schema is he working with? Trinity Church is concerned with Black struggle and liberation. Economic equality is a very big part of that, but to associate the church with Cuban socialism -- or even US liberalism -- is misleading. Such a comparison charicatures the Black Church in a way that seems to lump it in with the 'far-left' moveon.org wing of the Democratic Party. But as Obama made clear in his "More Perfect Union" speech, there is much about the Church -- its emphasis on Self-Reliance and I would add Tradition -- that can be aptly be described as conservative.
Put simply, Berlinerblau owes his readers a more nuanced discussion of issues that pays more attention to questions of context and substance than to thoughtless speculations about who's gonna win the race.
Posted by: brian | May 30, 2008 2:42 PM
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Its over! The said priest has apologized. Go home everybody!
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/30/obama.pfleger/index.html
In other news: Senator threw all his pastors, priests, campaign officials and over-top-ardent-supporters 'under the bus'. I am hereby distancing myself from all these folks in case they make comments that hurt anyone (Clinton-wink! Wink!)
This is ridiculous! Many clinton and right wing supporters spouting off their hurt feelings on this board and making derogatory comments about Senator Obama without knowing the man. We should ask senators Clinton and McCain to throw these obnoxious comment makers under the bus too and apologize profusely!
Posted by: Hobbs | May 30, 2008 2:41 PM
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While what Father Pfleger said was inappropriate and has no place in a church, he is not a pastor at Trinity. He is a priest (Catholic, as I am) at St. Sabina's. Why Barack Obama should have to apologize for this individual priest's comments is beyond me.
Perhaps it would be more appropriate to ask Cardinal George to apologize for Father Pfleger's comment. The cardinal is the spiritual leader of the Chicago diocese and I believe that Father Pfleger is a diocesan priest.
The media as well as politician seem to revel in "gotcha moments." Can't we believe that democracy, freedom of speech, and the individual's right to his/her opinon is a messy and complex operation. Do we have to be so simple-minded as to ascribe the statements of zealous and unpaid advocate to the individual whose cause he is espousing?
Posted by: Denise Weintraub | May 30, 2008 2:41 PM
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This man is not Obama's pastor. I do not see what the uproar is about. Could it be the man is telling the truth. Well, you know they always say "the truth hurts". Hillary did and still does think she's entitled to the nomination. When she found herself on the losing end, we all saw another side of Hillary Clinton. Maybe not another side, but the real side. She never thought that a black man by the name of Barack Obama would stand in her way to the White House. She thought she would have the nomination solidly sewn up after Super Tuesday. Instead she's fighting to catch up.
It amazes me that right before a primary or this important DNC meeting that her camp manages to try and pull a rabbit out of their hats. Who is the green-eyed monster in that church that keeps feeding the press this mess (and mess is all it is)?
So I guess Obama is now responsible for what Father Phleger is saying. People need to let it rest. All I will say is if Hillary manages to be the nominee, hello McCain.
Posted by: CC | May 30, 2008 2:40 PM
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Obama’s Religion – Rev. Wright preaches black liberation theology, a racist theology based upon the conflict between the "black oppressed" and the "white oppressor". That's why Wright portrays Jesus as black, and his murderers as white, because that is the only way the story of Jesus will fit with his theology.
I would recommend that you research black liberation theology, and in particular, the writings of James Cone. Wright acknowledges that Cone is one of his theological mentors, and the church's website recommends his book "Black Theology and Black Power." Here are a few of Cone’s quotes:
1. To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people.
2. While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism.
3. Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 2:38 PM
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Calling this a disaster is completely out of proportion. You may wonder where such sentiments about Hillary come from - they have also been expressed in other places:
http://www.time.com/time/cartoonsoftheweek/0,29489,1720614_1546056,00.html
Posted by: Alex | May 30, 2008 2:38 PM
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While what Father Pfleger said was inappropriate and has no place in a church, he is not a pastor at Trinity. He is a priest (Catholic, as I am) at St. Sabina's. Why Barack Obama should have to apologize for this individual priest's comments is beyond me.
Perhaps it would be more appropriate to ask Cardinal George to apologize for Father Pfleger's comment. The cardinal is the spiritual leader of the Chicago diocese and I believe that Father Pfleger is a diocesan priest.
The media as well as politician seem to revel in "gotcha moments." Can't we believe that democracy, freedom of speech, and the individual's right to his/her opinon is a messy and complex operation. Do we have to be so simple-minded as to ascribe the statements of zealous and unpaid advocate to the individual whose cause he is espousing?
Posted by: Denise Weintraub | May 30, 2008 2:37 PM
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O God America is full of crazy pastors. Another mad one after Wright, Hagee, Parsely and who's next? why can't they define their limits, religion or politics. It's a pity how the political establishment has manged to manipulate the clerics to sell the religion to politicians by seeking their endorsements. This is a sign of a serious decay of American social institutions both political and religious. God save America!!!
Posted by: Pagan Bol | May 30, 2008 2:37 PM
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The saddest part of this episode is that the new Reverend at Trinity, praised and thanked the priest for his talk and the audience was wildly enthusiastic about it. Also, sad that Obama would take his children into this environment of divisiveness.
Posted by: Francisco Cardenas | May 30, 2008 2:35 PM
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Come on now, just what do you expect from those who earn a living selling absurd stories and promises to the gullible and naive.....wait who am I talking about, evangelists or politicians?.....damn come to think of it, it could be anybody....even me.
Posted by: Robert Lemasters | May 30, 2008 2:35 PM
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Rev Pleger is just one of the many, many grossly immature priests that are and were in the priesthood over the last few decades.
I don't fault him for being a rebel and fighting his Cardinal. That might be one of his strong points. The Church is so out of it today in so many ways.
But for him to go off in support of any Candidate and bring up touchy issues is a betrayal of his role as a rep of the Catholic people who pay his room and board.
The problem with the Father Pflegers in the world today relates to mental illness. Yes. Who else would commit to a lifetime of celibacy when Marilyn Monroe and like beauties are everywhere. Seriously, and thus all the sexual problems in the seminaries and priesthood; and Convents. Change is needed so much!
Posted by: Bernie | May 30, 2008 2:35 PM
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Rev Pleger is just one of the many, many grossly immature priests that are and were in the priesthood over the last few decades.
I don't fault him for being a rebel and fighting his Cardinal. That might be one of his strong points. The Church is so out of it today in so many ways.
But for him to go off in support of any Candidate and bring up touchy issues is a betrayal of his role as a rep of the Catholic people who pay his room and board.
The problem with the Father Pflegers in the world today relates to mental illness. Yes. Who else would commit to a lifetime of celibacy when Marilyn Monroe and like beauties are everywhere. Seriously, and thus all the sexual problems in the seminaries and priesthood; and Convents. Change is needed so much!
Posted by: Bernie | May 30, 2008 2:34 PM
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This is just a millionth example of why church and state should not mix. Jacques Berlinerblau is another fine example.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:33 PM
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Rev Pleger is just one of the many, many grossly immature priests that are and were in the priesthood over the last few decades.
I don't fault him for being a rebel and fighting his Cardinal. That might be one of his strong points. The Church is so out of it today in so many ways.
But for him to go off in support of any Candidate and bring up touchy issues is a betrayal of his role as a rep of the Catholic people who pay his room and board.
The problem with the Father Pflegers in the world today relates to mental illness. Yes. Who else would commit to a lifetime of celibacy when Marilyn Monroe and like beauties are everywhere. Seriously, and thus all the sexual problems in the seminaries and priesthood; and Convents. Change is needed so much!
Posted by: Bernie O'Brien | May 30, 2008 2:33 PM
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Come on now, just what do you expect from those who earn a living selling absurd stories and promises to the gullible and naive.....wait who am I talking about, evangelists or politicians?.....damn come to think of it, it could be anybody....even me.
Posted by: Robert Lemasters | May 30, 2008 2:32 PM
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Rev Pleger is just one of the many, many grossly immature priests that are and were in the priesthood over the last few decades.
I don't fault him for being a rebel and fighting his Cardinal. That might be one of his strong points. The Church is so out of it today in so many ways.
But for him to go off in support of any Candidate and bring up touchy issues is a betrayal of his role as a rep of the Catholic people who pay his room and board.
The problem with the Father Pflegers in the world today relates to mental illness. Yes. Who else would commit to a lifetime of celibacy when Marilyn Monroe and like beauties are everywhere. Seriously, and thus all the sexual problems in the seminaries and priesthood; and Convents. Change is needed so much!
Posted by: Bernie O'Brien | May 30, 2008 2:32 PM
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This pastor should be a guest on Saturday Night Live. He would be great.
Posted by: Kevin | May 30, 2008 2:31 PM
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What regret did Obama express?! He did NOT denounce the remarks as being inaccurate or condescending or disrespectful of a Presidential candidate. The only "regret" Obama seems to have is that it happened - yet again - in his church.
If it had been Hillary's minister or church, you don't think there would be another round from the media about how she should just quit now?! Even the made-up stuff, like how everyone is so afraid for his safety, was twisted and bent into an excuse for Hillary to be driven out of the race.
But Obama gets another pass! No one in the media is calling for him to withdraw. We know how he sounds when he denounces something - like everyone ELSE's racism! Let's hear him really denounce his supporters, who have spent months spewing epithets at Hillary and her supporters. We were personally verbally attacked in West Virginia during the last days of the campaign. If these are such high-minded folk, why are their words straight out of the gutter?!
And they think we're going to work for this guy in the fall?! Guess again!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Linda Mahoney, Silver Spring, MD | May 30, 2008 2:30 PM
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Obama really seems to be uniting the Democrats. Wow, he's a real piece of work. He lets his surrogates and the media demonize Hillary, and then he wants my vote ? I'll take my chances with McCain, thank you.
Posted by: Jane | May 30, 2008 2:29 PM
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I have really had it with the media blasting Senator Obama for things other people say. He nor any of us can be held responsible for what our friends, family, priests, bosses,etc, say or think. This goes for our friends, family, etc. I watched CNN/MSNBC run the Rev. Wright issue for weeks, while they only talked about Senator Clinton's misspoken words, lack of sleep, her words about JKF's assassination (which I cannot for the life of me understand what that has to do the election other than exactly what Keith Olberman said, "is she waiting for something (probably hoping) to happen to Senator Obama so can win the nomination?" She has complained about the media not being fair to her, well, as someone who watches these shows every single day, it is definitely the other way around. She constantly misspeaks (not lies according to the media) and I do not believe for one minute that she honestly meant it when she said that if Senator Obama is the nominee, she will work her heart out to help him. How can she run this country's budget if she cannot even manage her own campaign budget, which as we all know is in huge debt. Her campaign and others call Senator racist and Elitist when she is the one with the millions and keeps saying that it is the white people who are voting for her as if the African-Americans and the Hispanic Americans do not count. If the media wants to be "fair" as they should be, they should run each candidate's issues the same amount of time, not run one for weeks and the other for two days. The only spoke about McCain's pastor Hagee's comments, his wife's tax returns and Senator Clinton's "assassination" comments the Friday before Memorial Day, then you have not heard anything about these issues since. The media is not supposed to sway reader/listeners to their beliefs, but to be fair. They have the same people on their shows. They need to start using other people and also need to start taking live comments from us, the people of America. Thank you.
Posted by: A. White | May 30, 2008 2:29 PM
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This is just a millionth example of why church and state should not mix. Jacques Berlinerblau is another fine example.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:29 PM
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Neither the Reverend Wright nor Father Pfleger speak for the Obama campaign, and therefore Senator Obama has nothing for which to apologize with regard to their remarks. The press apparently shares an interest with the Republican Party in making a completely innocent person responsible for the inflammatory remarks of another. I certainly know what the GOP hopes to gain by this tactic, but I think it is completely out of line for the media to contribute to this mindset of, "You know this man, therefore you are responsible for what he says." In what universe is this a rational and fair critique? This tactic approaches Swift-Boating, and while I expect nothing better from Republicans, I had thought better of the press. Until now, that is. When this election is over, whether Senator Obama becomes President Obama or not, you, the media of the world, owe him a huge apology. Your shame is already the size of Everest, and there are over five months to go before Election Day.
Posted by: Michael Lombardi | May 30, 2008 2:28 PM
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DEE TATE SAID: Who the hell cares about what this man said? If Obama didn't say those words, then it should not be an issue! If all of us were held accountable for every wrong word that came out of our friends and family members mouths, we would all be screwed! The way I see it, no one can find any "real dirt" on Obama, so they try to make a big deal about this type of bull%*%*! It's getting old!!!!!!
______________________________________________
I'M JUST WONDERING, if you found out that a Presidential candidate whose public statements were more than acceptable to you, considered Adolf Hitler to be his historical mentor, would that be relevant to you when deciding whether he was a suitable candidate for the Presidency?
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:27 PM
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Michelle and Obama. THE MOST DANGEROUS PEOPLE ON EARTH!
Posted by: Roinct | May 30, 2008 2:26 PM
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I REALLY THINK THIS IS FUNNY. I ENJOYED THE LAUGH. THAT PRIEST SHOULD BE ON SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE. I BET IF HE WERE ON SNL, WE ALL WOULD HAVE LAUGHED I CAN ONLY GO WITH WHAT OBAMA SAYS. THAT GAL ON SNL WHO PLAYS HILLERY DID THE SAME THING AND WE THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY. WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME FUN. YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THE CARTOONS ON THE INTERNET. THESE ARE FROM NEWSPAPERS AROUND THE COUNTRY. THEY ARE REALLY FUNNY. LIGHTEN US. HAVE FUN. THE MEDIA IS MAKING MONEY. I BET EVERY CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE COUNTRY WISH THEY HAD A PRIEST THAT DID NOT MAKE THEM FEEL THAT THEY WERE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL (CONFESSION OR SHADY BUSINESS DEALS, ADULTRY, FORNICATION, GAY, BIGOTRY,YOU NAME IT); NOT TO MENTION THE DULL SERMONS AND THE CLOUD IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND REGARDING YOUR DONATION GOING TO BAIL OUT THE CHURCH DEBT DUE TO TOO MUCH LOVING THE CHILDREN. BY THE WAY, I HOPE MC CAIN DOESN'T GET SPLASHED BY THE TEXAS MORMANS SINCE HE ASSOCIATES WITH MICK. GUILT BY ASSOCIATION AND NO SENSE OF HUMOR. WHAT A BUNCH OF JERKS. DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF. THERE ARE BIGGER FISH TO FRY.
Posted by: sm98yth | May 30, 2008 2:25 PM
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I have no clue what it is that Senator Obama supports are seeing or hearing from him that I am not. I tend to trust my gut feeling about people. When they show and tell me who they are I believe them. Senator Obama has lied about his unfortunate relationships and demonstrated that he is not who he professes to be. His after-the-fact apoligies are unbelievable. His wife Michelle is no different. What exactly has Senator Obama promised to deliver as President of the United States? Change, what change? I want specifics. To date he has proven that he was right in his assessment of going to war. Then he made the decision to vote to fund the war. And? Why did he do that? Seems to me that because he was right on the war issue that his poor judgment in his personal dealings and relationships should not be overlooked, ignored or chalked up to blunders, bone-headed ideas or distractions when others want to discuss it.
Posted by: Diane | May 30, 2008 2:25 PM
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Let's keep all religious leaders, of all faiths, out of politics.
Thank God I'm an atheist.
Rafe
Posted by: Rafe | May 30, 2008 2:24 PM
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Obama really seems to be uniting the Democrats. Wow, he's a real piece of work. He lets his surrogates and the media demonize Hillary, and then he wants my vote ? I'll take my chances with McCain, thank you.
Posted by: Jane | May 30, 2008 2:24 PM
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I have no clue what it is that Senator Obama supports are seeing or hearing from him that I am not. I tend to trust my gut feeling about people. When they show and tell me who they are I believe them. Senator Obama has lied about his unfortunate relationships and demonstrated that he is not who he professes to be. His after-the-fact apoligies are unbelievable. His wife Michelle is no different. What exactly has Senator Obama promised to deliver as President of the United States? Change, what change? I want specifics. To date he has proven that he was right in his assessment of going to war. Then he made the decision to vote to fund the war. And? Why did he do that? Seems to me that because he was right on the war issue that his poor judgment in his personal dealings and relationships should not be overlooked, ignored or chalked up to blunders, bone-headed ideas or distractions when others want to discuss it.
Posted by: Diane | May 30, 2008 2:24 PM
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Who the hell cares about what this man said? If Obama didn't say those words, then it should not be an issue! If all of us were held accountable for every wrong word that came out of our friends and family members mouths, we would all be screwed! The way I see it, no one can find any "real dirt" on Obama, so they try to make a big deal about this type of bull%*%*! It's getting old!!!!!!
Posted by: Dee Tate | May 30, 2008 2:23 PM
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I have no clue what it is that Senator Obama supports are seeing or hearing from him that I am not. I tend to trust my gut feeling about people. When they show and tell me who they are I believe them. Senator Obama has lied about his unfortunate relationships and demonstrated that he is not who he professes to be. His after-the-fact apoligies are unbelievable. His wife Michelle is no different. What exactly has Senator Obama promised to deliver as President of the United States? Change, what change? I want specifics. To date he has proven that he was right in his assessment of going to war. Then he made the decision to vote to fund the war. And? Why did he do that? Seems to me that because he was right on the war issue that his poor judgment in his personal dealings and relationships should not be overlooked, ignored or chalked up to blunders, bone-headed ideas or distractions when others want to discuss it.
Posted by: Diane | May 30, 2008 2:23 PM
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~
Yet another reason why Clinton should stay in the race through the convention.
By August, Obama will completely unelectable (just as John Kerry was in 2004).
Better to keep our options open.
Obama is not qualified.
Obama is not electable.
~
Posted by: DickeyFuller | May 30, 2008 2:23 PM
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Who the hell cares about what this man said? If Obama didn't say those words, then it should not be an issue! If all of us were held accountable for every wrong word that came out of our friends and family members mouths, we would all be screwed! The way I see it, no one can find any "real dirt" on Obama, so they try to make a big deal about this type of bull%*%*! It's getting old!!!!!!
Posted by: Dee Tate | May 30, 2008 2:22 PM
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Hillary is the straight A student turned down by a top law school because it needed to reserve a place for a black affirmative action applicant. That's probably how she sees all this.
Posted by: candide | May 30, 2008 2:22 PM
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I don't see what the big deal is. Hillary did think she was anoited. I am a Obama supported and was an Edwards, Clinton supporter also but I like thousand or even millions of others assumed that Hillary was going to win the nomination. Truth wins out - he may have been a little uncouth in his words but every one knows what he said was the truth why else would Clinton now be playing the race card by saying that "white middle class, etc. would vote for her...." I'm from WV.
Posted by: Who Cares | May 30, 2008 2:21 PM
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Obama really seems to be uniting the Democrats. Wow, he's a real piece of work. He lets his surrogates and the media demonize Hillary, and then he wants my vote ? I'll take my chances with McCain, thank you.
Posted by: Jane | May 30, 2008 2:19 PM
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I don't see what the big deal is. Hillary did think she was anoited. I am a Obama supported and was an Edwards, Clinton supporter also but I like thousand or even millions of others assumed that Hillary was going to win the nomination. Truth wins out - he may have been a little uncouth in his words but every one knows what he said was the truth why else would Clinton now be playing the race card by saying that "white middle class, etc. would vote for her...." I'm from WV.
Posted by: Who Cares | May 30, 2008 2:19 PM
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Silly Sid. It doesn't matter if he was tired or misspoke, because clearly he's for "Change". BTW: you are racist if you are against "Change" too.
Posted by: erndog | May 30, 2008 2:17 PM
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Silly Sid. It doesn't matter if he was tired or misspoke, because clearly he's for "Change". BTW: you are racist if you are against "Change" too.
Posted by: erndog | May 30, 2008 2:16 PM
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I am more than amused by the Obama apologists who suggest that we should not consider any of his associations as relevant to his character and judgment. They say that since Obama himself did not spout the racist and anti-American remarks, we should not consider any such remarks, or any of his associations when deciding whether or not he is a suitable President. They say that we should only consider statement made by Obama himself; a man who is trying to convince us that he is the appropriate choice as the leader of our nation.
We're supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year "mentor and spiritual adviser." We're supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who, in a fiery sermon, claimed retired pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright was "lynched" by the media and compared the embattled pastor to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. government was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading the AIDS virus to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to ignore Obama's friend and patron of 17 years, the indicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama's equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama's long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.
Just how many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 2:13 PM
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I am more than amused by the Obama apologists who suggest that we should not consider any of his associations as relevant to his character and judgment. They say that since Obama himself did not spout the racist and anti-American remarks, we should not consider any such remarks, or any of his associations when deciding whether or not he is a suitable President. They say that we should only consider statement made by Obama himself; a man who is trying to convince us that he is the appropriate choice as the leader of our nation.
We're supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year "mentor and spiritual adviser." We're supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who, in a fiery sermon, claimed retired pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright was "lynched" by the media and compared the embattled pastor to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. government was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading the AIDS virus to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to ignore Obama's friend and patron of 17 years, the indicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama's equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama's long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.
Just how many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 2:12 PM
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so what you are on the outside looking in and stating your opions. Now you are doing the race card.
Posted by: Faithy Graham | May 30, 2008 2:11 PM
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The Terrorist They Call "president" Is The Enemy Of Humanity!!
What is wrong with you white people? Are you all insane? Why do you TURN everything into RACE? Obama is NOT just a man, a politician, a presidential contender. You people must also see him as BLACK!!!
Insanity!!
Your insanity will further prevent you people from seeing that the BEST HOPE you have in a president, come November, is Obama.
Mcain is too OLD and TOOO DANGEROUS because he is tooo OLD and DANGEROUS because he is too OLD!!! He also comes across as really mean spirited!! perhaps he is INSANE because he was TORTURED!!!
Hillary Clinton is tooooo DESPERATE to be your president. She will SAY ANYTHING to get herself ahead. Because of this she is DANGEROUS and she could be very RECKLESS as to when she was asked about Iran and she PROMPTLY, without THINKING her answer through, she said "obliterate them", meaning she would kill everyone in Iran, WOMEN and CHILDREN included!!!
She is INSANE, You people are INSANE!! The world Cannot trust you!!!!!
Posted by: Somali | May 30, 2008 2:08 PM
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As many of you know, the DNC rules committee is meeting tomorrow to figure out how they can artfully deprive Hillary of the votes cast in Florida and Michigan. It is important to know that although Obama, his supporters, the DNC and party elite, and the mainstream media have conspired to marginalize the millions of Democrats who have voted for Hillary, or who do not support Obama, they will now be using every trick in the book to "bring the party together" to further the ruthless ambitions of Obama and the party elite. They will want you to forget all about the months and months of biased press, the biased party elite, the insults, and the race-cards. They will want you to forget that the Democratic Party now is the party that stands for disenfranchisement and the rationalization of racism, if it results in the nomination of their hand-picked candidate. They will use any and all devices to persuade you to vote for the man who they have preordained as the Democratic nominee. DON'T FALL FOR IT!
Whether you want to write-in Hillary, if possible, vote for John McCain rather than Obama, or sit out the election, remember that your action or inaction could result in the election of the inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless, divisive, black liberation theology believing, terrorist befriending, race-card throwing Obama. NOTE: PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COPY AND PASTE THIS COMMENT ONTO ANY BLOG OF YOUR CHOICE. WE NEED TO GET THE WORD OUT.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 2:07 PM
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Let's hear from his grocer, his mailman, his tailor, and his car mechanic. I am sure they all have meaningful insight, too.
Posted by: Fran Taylor | May 30, 2008 2:07 PM
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If Jay Leno or David Letterman had said this nobody would care!
The priest was trying to be funny people! Not funny if you are a Clinton supporter!
Get a grip on yourselves folks: There are more important things such as people dying in Darfur; and our men and women of the armed forces becoming casualties in an unjust war: where were the cries of indignation then?
Posted by: Hobbs | May 30, 2008 2:04 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 2:03 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 2:02 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 2:01 PM
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Itn't it a stretch to make a huge connection in this case. He is a visiting homolist at this church. Although there are some other connections to Obama, it is not like Obama subscribed to his way of looking at race. I am sure that Brit Hume and Sean hannity willjump on this, but I am not sure it will have legs enough to make an impact on voters who are on the fence.
Posted by: Robert Hurley | May 30, 2008 2:01 PM
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As many of you know, the DNC rules committee is meeting tomorrow to figure out how they can artfully deprive Hillary of the votes cast in Florida and Michigan. It is important to know that although Obama, his supporters, the DNC and party elite, and the mainstream media have conspired to marginalize the millions of Democrats who have voted for Hillary, or who do not support Obama, they will now be using every trick in the book to "bring the party together" to further the ruthless ambitions of Obama and the party elite. They will want you to forget all about the months and months of biased press, the biased party elite, the insults, and the race-cards. They will want you to forget that the Democratic Party now is the party that stands for disenfranchisement and the rationalization of racism, if it results in the nomination of their hand-picked candidate. They will use any and all devices to persuade you to vote for the man who they have preordained as the Democratic nominee. DON'T FALL FOR IT!
Whether you want to write-in Hillary, if possible, vote for John McCain rather than Obama, or sit out the election, remember that your action or inaction could result in the election of the inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless, divisive, black liberation theology believing, terrorist befriending, race-card throwing Obama. NOTE: PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COPY AND PASTE THIS COMMENT ONTO ANY BLOG OF YOUR CHOICE. WE NEED TO GET THE WORD OUT.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 2:00 PM
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Oh please, if he didn't just make a piognant joke at Hillary's expense. I'm sure Barack Obama isn't happy with the statement, but 99.9% of all people of color probably totally agree with his statement. I'm a 40 year old white guy who'd vote for Hillary in the general and I think he's funny and nailed it. She lost this campaign because she didn't take the black guy seriously, she thought she had it in the bag, and she is entitled to the nomination based on a number of factors. She ran a crap campaign, went negative, showed her desperation, and turned alot of smart people off. Now she's appealing to the base, and I mean base of the party. I can't wait to vote for Barack in the general, and yes the US is very racist, and this may hurt our chances of winning, but I have faith this test will expose and transform us as a nation
Posted by: Dewight R. Williams | May 30, 2008 1:55 PM
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STOP THE PRESS.
Catholic Church declares opposition to all women, all the time. (Save for a certain fictional virgin.)
This is news? Hell, given priestly sexual preferences, is this even a surprise?
Posted by: tcement | May 30, 2008 1:54 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 1:54 PM
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Reposted with additional comment at bottom.
Fred Jones is my new hero. I encourage others to read his comment below.
I for one do believe in the principal of actions being more telling than rhetoric. Inaction, in this case constitutes conscious decision. To remain associated with a church and spiritual advisors who have made and continue to make racist comments and carry overtly racist views is unacceptable and inexcusable, especially from a man who in public rhetoric is preaching the unity doctrine.
I am having trouble believing that the sound bites that have come to light since the campaign began are the first times that these men have expressed these views. I think it is a hard pill to swallow that in Obama's long associations with these men; he was unaware that they held views that were contradictory and inflammatory to the cause of a unified nation beyond the segregated self interest of race.
Only now, when these comments are damaging to Obama's credibility as a unifier does he distance himself from a pastor and spiritual advisor of 20 years? It just feels disingenuous. It feels like when you let something you are thinking slip out in the heat of an argument and then try desperately to back peddle and say, "Just joking, you don't think I really feel that way do you?"
I like Obama. I am just becoming less sure that I know who Obama is. His long association with a racist church and close ties with men who feel strong enough about their racist ideology to express it publicly, (How many cameras do you think they were looking into while speaking these words?) just makes me question the conviction and authenticity of Obama's public statements on race.
I want a unifier, but I am not willing pick just anyone who claims to be a unifier. I want a unifier in deed as well as in word.
I truly hope that Obama's can find a way to show me that he is that man. He may be the closest thing we have to choose from in this election.
It saddens me to think that I may have to make a decision in this race based not on what I think a candidate will do to bring us together, but what I think the candidate will not do to tear us apart.
". . . one Nation under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All."
That needs to mean something to the next president of our country.
New Comment: To those that are posting the, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" comments, I understand what you are saying about how we all have people in our lives that would probably reflect poorly on us if we ever ran for office. But the simple fact is that we are not running for office. When did we stop holding our elected officials to a higher standard? These are supposed to the best people that our country can put forth as examples of what we as Americans value in our national identity. They are not supposed to be like us, they are supposed to be the reflection of what we all strive to be.
Not everyone is good enough to be the President.
Posted by: MTerry | May 30, 2008 1:54 PM
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The story is harmless and only brings out the nutcases like you Mr. Berlingblau who are petrified to see a multi-racial US president accede to the position.
Your terrified that Obama is someone who is not afraid to take on Israel and its 3 billion dollar per annum, best ally in middle east, fabrication. So you jump to smear.
Remember it was Israel which went ahead with talks with Syria while the US government pleaded with it to stay away. It is Israel that has the nuclear weapons in the middle east, thus challenging other countries in the area to do the same. It is Israel which practices indiscriminate bombing of milk factories in neighboring countries and afterwards uses the excuse they are nuclear weapons facilities.
And the list goes on endlessly. But when President Carter dares to raise his voice in measured criticism of Israel and its policies towards Palestinians, you and your friends (Foxman, Dershowitz etal) cannot abide by it and start the namecalling and spreading of vicious propaganda that Mr. Carter is an anti semite. This time it wont work. This time its different.
Meanwhile, you are currently caught up in a panic because the strangle hold that AIPAC held on US congress may finally be weakening. And even your own supporters dont buy the argument that Israel is in mortal danger. In fact, the contributions by your supporters continues to decrease. Its time to settle this problem andf stop waving the guilt obsessed holocaust in front of American eyes. Which country do you and your ilk owe allegiance to, Mr. Berlingblau?
Finally, the smear campaign continues, this time singling out a Catholic priest who dared to tell the truth about the bawling, whining, complaining female presidential aspirant. She may be tenacious but not because she is courageous, but because she is willing to pull out all the dirty tricks in her bag to try to wrest the nomination away from a fresh faced newcomer to national politics.
I predict, like Mr. Rupert Murdoch, that the dems will win this election in a landslide. Mr. McCain can go back to his womanizing and boozy Bangkok bars and wonder why he was left in a cloud of dust.
Nice try, Mr. Berlingblau, but your attempts to smear Mr. Obama with yet another brush simply wont work. The Trinity Church is a place of progressive politics in a neighborhood of progressively political people. And they have every right to live and practice their own style of politics the way they want to, without a preening, loquacious so-called columnist braying about whether Ms Clinton cried because she was personally denied her right to the White House.
Live with it. The time is ripe for change. Yes, we already have accomplished the change you abhor.
Tony Gillotte
Posted by: Tony Gillotte | May 30, 2008 1:53 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 1:53 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 1:52 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 1:51 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 1:50 PM
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I feel sorry for those cheering people. There is that white hypocrite that’s messing with them. They’re being manipulated and they fall for it all. I’m afraid that maybe Obama is doing the same. He may be playing the black card to get the black votes, but he fails short when asked to take a side. Where he was when the Jenna six incident was happening. He said nothing.
Now what’s white and what’s black? And how does Obama fit in those two categories? Is Black just the skin color or the American Black pass experience, slavery, discrimination and so? And again how Obama fits in all that? And if I’m a second generation, white person from Eastern Europe, how privileged should I feel for being white in America? How guilty should I feel for what my ancestors did to the Black people? Or if I’m a son of a black man and a white American woman, how guilty should I feel for what my white ancestors did to the Black people. We should maybe ask the white monkey of the pastor to clear all that for us.
Posted by: rose | May 30, 2008 1:47 PM
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"What Else Can We At Trinity Do to Further Assure that the United States Does Not Have Its First African-American President Any Time Soon?"
How convenient!
It is not that church diminishing the chance of African-American. These are samples of what Obama is hiding from public. I pity him, for those come back and haunt him. But, denial and claiming that they did not have any influence on Obama is simply not acceptable.
You cannot simply take people for granted. These are not attacks on foreign country thousand miles away. The attacks by his religious mentors, and occasionally by his spouse are directly at our own people, our own fellow Democrats.
There is a simple solution to this. He has to wait and to be seen in public, so that people will clear their doubts about him for ever. A VP position is the highest we can aspire for him. Or we can run him for Presidency and loose the White House to McCain.
Posted by: Kadavul | May 30, 2008 1:46 PM
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Please, mocking an opposing candidate might not be in the best of taste but it is not a big deal either.
Posted by: Yockel | May 30, 2008 1:43 PM
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I am a Jewish man sick and tired of the self-appointed spokespersons, especially Jewish ones, resorting to Joe McCarthy's tacticts of smear by association as Berlinerblau does here. He writes as if Obama, for whom I will vote, spoke the words he slams, spoken by a preacher of some sort.
This preacher is not Obama. Obama rejects his remarks. Berlinerblau is not the insane Jewish Defense League, but I would bet I could dig up a time he had a relationship, however tenuous, with some of those nuts.
Columns like this do nothing to enlighten readers about qualifications of the candidates for president. Instead, Berlinerblau seeks to distract readers and voters from true issues by waving the bloody shirt of this preacher's words. As far as I know, the preacher will not appear on my ballot when I vote in November.
His words will have no effect on my vote. I will give the preacher's words a weight exactly equal to those of Mr. Berlinerblau.
Posted by: J. Irving Steinberg | May 30, 2008 1:43 PM
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This brings to mind the old anti smoking add from years back. The cigarette turns into a cobra and the announcer says, "what do cigarettes have to do to you before you get the message."
What does religion have to do to Obama before he gets the message? What does religion have to do to America before Americans get the message?
Obama, Clinton and McCain all three know the Bible is a proved hoax. It's verified by the highest authority at the university. Their silence and that of the university tells us religion holds a gun at the head of America.
It will take a real American hero to shoot back and not just side step it as best they can. Is Obama that hero? Clinton or McCain have the guts? These are the ones that want to lead the nation. To where do they have in mind, hell?
Posted by: BGone | May 30, 2008 1:42 PM
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I am more than amused by the Obama apologists who suggest that we should not consider any of his associations as relevant to his character and judgment. They say that since Obama himself did not spout the racist and anti-American remarks, we should not consider any such remarks, or any of his associations when deciding whether or not he is a suitable President. They say that we should only consider statement made by Obama himself; a man who is trying to convince us that he is the appropriate choice as the leader of our nation.
We're supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year "mentor and spiritual adviser." We're supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who, in a fiery sermon, claimed retired pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright was "lynched" by the media and compared the embattled pastor to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. government was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading the AIDS virus to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to Obama's friend and patron of 17 years, the indicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama's equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama's long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.
Just how many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 1:37 PM
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Only in a world this insane would so many people be hung up on what a preacher says. We need a virus that kills off dumb people.
Posted by: Hillary lost | May 30, 2008 1:35 PM
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This is Trinity "United" Church, is it not?? If this is Senator Obama's idea of "United" then he needs to rethink his position. He seems to have too many "associates" who feel comfortable spewing these divisive comments in a very public manner. Amazing how the good Father's name has been removed from Obama's website. John McCain must be a happy man right about now.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121207853534129667.html?mod=Best+of+the+Web+Today
Posted by: Liz | May 30, 2008 1:34 PM
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Why is this story (only) in the "on-faith" heavenly-blue-glowing ghetto of this National Newspaper? The apparent necessity of this editorial decision, to privilege the religious view on the political implications of Pfleger's commentary, conclusively illustrates the WaPo's determination to dumb itself down into a proper Local Newspaper.
Posted by: dmw | May 30, 2008 1:33 PM
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You hould not blame Obama for what other Pastor or Priest says. Can you tell me that someone you know has never made comments that you don't like.
Judge Obama based on what he says, not what a reverend so so so says.
Izak
Posted by: izak | May 30, 2008 1:30 PM
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Father Pfleger's comments, while theatrical and over top, have the ring of truth (and it's called 'humor' people - get over yourselves).
Watching Clinton's near weekly meltdowns and innapropriate comments (hard working white people; citing Bobby Kennedy's assassination as a reason to stay in the race, the men are ganging up on me - boo hoo, etc.), one has to wonder if there is anything she wouldn't do to win the nomination. And that seems to come from an inflated sense of entitlement.
Posted by: Enemy Of The State | May 30, 2008 1:28 PM
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As Obama has repudiated the comments in question, it's kind of moot. It's not like when Clinton brought up that she's staying in the race till Obama is killed, or the way McCain was unaware that his reverands thought Hitler was an agent of god.
get over it already - I know the post hates Obama because the post has always supported the invasion of Iraq, but just get over it.
Posted by: Marc Edward | May 30, 2008 1:28 PM
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May be the preacher was tired and misspoke.
If so wouldn't that excuse make everything alright?
Posted by: Sid | May 30, 2008 1:27 PM
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This article is pure trash. It's amazing that a "universtity scholar's exploration and debate" concerning "religion in the news" could be as mindless as the latest Olberman/OReilly feud.
For example: Berlinerblau asks, "Fourth, and most importantly[!], what will be the fallout for the Obama campaign?" Where does he come off saying that political fallout is the "most important" issue? The Post is a newspaper not a racing form! If people want the horse race version of political 'journalism,' they don't need a Professor of Jewish Civilization. They need Bill OReilly, who's experience on Entertainment Tonight makes him far more qualified to spew garbage like that.
Not only that but Berlinerblau seems to mock Obama for asking that comments made in the Black Church be understood in context. As the resident expert on religion, it's Berlinerblau's job to help provide a context for understanding complex topics such as Black Liberation Theology. Instead he writes off context entirely and gives us the same mindless trash we could find on cable news.
In the following paragraph, Berlinerblau further demonstrates his lack of insight when he says, "in a general election a presidential candidate typically moves to the center. It is now going to be even harder for Obama to do that since America keeps seeing footage of his friends who stand to the left of Fidel Castro." What sort of left/right schema is he working with? Trinity Church is concerned with Black struggle and liberation. Economic equality is a very big part of that, but to associate the church with Cuban socialism -- or even US liberalism -- is misleading. Such a comparison charicatures the Black Church in a way that seems to lump it in with the 'far-left' moveon.org wing of the Democratic Party. But as Obama made clear in his "More Perfect Union" speech, there is much about the Church -- its emphasis on Self-Reliance and I would add Tradition -- that can be aptly be described as conservative.
Put simply, Berlinerblau owes his readers a more nuanced discussion of issues that pays more attention to questions of context and substance than to thoughtless speculations about who's gonna win the race.
Posted by: brian | May 30, 2008 1:27 PM
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I've provided some context for this on my blog http://stephencrosehome.blogspot.com
The context is important because this is an understandable phenomenon all around.
By getting through it, Barack will choose to be much more theologically relevant than his "friends" for whom immature catharsis rhetoric is hardly helpful.
Posted by: Stephen Rose | May 30, 2008 1:26 PM
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We all have friends that will say things that are totally opposite of what we believe. And since none of us can control what our children, or spouses, or parents, or friends say-why are we holding presidential candidates to standards which we all know we can't hold ourselves too. It seems we now expect candidates to be totally perfect-almost Godlike. If we are looking for that, then no one can be elected to the office. Also was Obama even there when the comments were made? Is he responsible now to the sermon content done at his home church? I think we are being too picky, looking for reasons to not elect him.
Posted by: naner | May 30, 2008 1:26 PM
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That pastor speaks the truth-Truth hurts
But he should not have done it, but some people have no self control.
Nothing here-Time to move on-we have seen this kind of 'guilt by association' tactic & 'kitchen sink' strategy before from the Clintons and Republicans.
Hasn't worked before and not gonna work this time against Senator Obama!
Posted by: Hobbs | May 30, 2008 1:23 PM
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Why does everyone continue to lump in Obama supporters' views with Obama's views himself? Once again, what this guy says has NOTHING to do with what Obama believes.
I recently watched interviews from West Virginia of Hillary Clinton supporters stating why they voted for Hillary. Quoted: "I guess it would have to be the black thing, the fact that we've had so many problems in the past with them." AND "I don't like the Hussein thing. I've had enough of Hussein."
Why do we continue to assume supporters of Obama reflect the views of Obama himself? Does this mean that Hillary also believes that she's more qualified than Obama because of the "black thing" and the "Hussein thing"?
All these completely indirect associations need to stop.
Posted by: psps23 | May 30, 2008 1:23 PM
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Is Obama still a member of Trinity United Church? Do his children go there on Sundays? What in Gods name will it take for Obama to LEAVE THAT CHURCH?
Posted by: TSR | May 30, 2008 1:20 PM
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It's too bad that it's almost June and there has been little to no policy discussion or debate. Corporate Media will conduct another campaign focused on preachers, electoral process, and swift boaters.
News Flash: No one cares about Obama's or McCain's preacher problems. ...except Clinton and Rove, of course.
People are watching their standard of living slip into the abyss, public schools are underfunded and lack support, college bound students can't secure loans, millions of people are locked out of health care, and McCain wants to continue a war that is bankrupting the country. So what if some preacher doesn't like Hillary Clinton? I am sure there are plenty of preachers who don't like Hillary Clinton. It's the least of her problems right now.
There are probably plenty of preachers not digging Obama or McCain.
Posted by: Deborah | May 30, 2008 1:19 PM
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Joe Smith - what an idiot!! I guess that also means that John McCain is not a legal citizen of the US since he was born on a US base in a foreign country while his father served his country. Just the fact that Obama's mother was a US citizen would be enough to make him a citizen of the US. I wonder if most Hawaiian citizens paying taxes and recieving benefits are totally unaware they are not citizens of the US. As I said - What an idiot!!
Posted by: Sunny | May 30, 2008 1:16 PM
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A standing ovation for this "holy man?" His retoric is strait out of the Tailban's "How-to" book. And he is yet another "spiritual adviser" to the man who wants to "lead the free world?" Give me a break!
You know, racism cuts both ways, and this individual ... and those applauding him ... and those who failed to stand up to him at their own peril (in their own church for gods sake!) when it was happening (the way Rosa Parks did alone on a bus) demonstrate racisms repugnance all too well.
Over the course of my life I have had many African American friends, just as I have been the witness and the object of racial assaults by black individuals against white people. These people applauding at Trinity Church remind me of the people who stood by (in front of a grade school while their children were being let out) while I was mugged by three black guys and cut with a knife. No one, not one in the crowd of 50 or 100 people, called the police ... or even yelled at the muggers to set a principle in front of their children. They just let it happen. Not one Rosa Parks in the whole crowd. FTR, I however (perhaps foolishly) have, despite being strait, intervened directly when a group of 6-8 white thugs from the suburbs came to Greenwich Village on a "Fag Bashing Outing." So I think I have the right to speak on this sort of behavior, perhaps a little more so than Mr. Obama and his fellow parishioners ... from their pews and pulpits.
You know, as a white teenager at school in Harlem in the 1970's, I remember one day a year that every kid like me watched out for ... in abject fear. It was called "Kill Whitey Day." Literally, that's what they called it (people, I expect, like some of those applauding in this video). And it wasn't just at our school. I had friends all over NYC who knew about "Kill Whitey Day." We watched our backs, some of us stayed home (especially the white girls) and we didn't go out alone if they were in the "wrong" neighborhood. FTR, MANY of my black friends didn't partake and stood side-by-side with the white students ON THAT DAY, at their own peril and ostrization by other blacks, to provide cover for the white students. I remember that like it was yesterday. There were some very scary moments and people got physically hurt (white and black).
This atrocity of the Black Community still goes on today. Just Google it if you doubt me.
So, before anyone, black or white, and especially the members of Trinity Church Congregation (who have actually done so many good things for their community, black and white) start throwing stones from their pulpit, again, maybe they should stop and hold a mirror up to themselves. But of course, they would have to stop clapping to do so.
And while we're at it, let's not give Mr. Obama a free pass to the White House on this. His attempts to ... pretend he didn't know, ... wasn't there at the time ... or his failure to recognized on balance the double-edged sword of such bald-faced prejudiced ... are ringing hollower and hollower. His abstract tangential obsfucation in Philadelphia was a classic debating trick to change the conversation when you can't win on principle. Fine talk there Mr. Obama, but I wouldn't want you at my back in a street fight. Talk is, after all, cheap, and safe (unless you want to be president, as it turns out).
If Mr. Obama didn't know, he should have. He wants to be the "uniter" president, after all, (like our current president before he got into office, ugh!). And, his denials of having similar racist beliefs (which I fully expect are true) would be much more valuable if he had taken a stand on principle at the time, ... instead signing these "Pastors" onto his campaign team and waiting until after he had no choice but to respond. Crisis management 101, get in front of the story. Don't your campaign people know the rules of the game? You're going to be going up against Swift-boaters for god's sake!!!
Frankly, at this point I cast Mr. Obama's revisionist behavior in the same mold as Mr. McClellan. Wanting it both ways is hardly what I call "change" in a politician.
If Obama wanted my support (a white liberal with a masters degree, FTR), he should have spoken up at the time, pro actively, instead leaving it until he had no choice and so much to lose. ...Oh, if he could only whitewash the past, but that's not the way statesmen are elected, nor the way they should behave.
As for me, I'm writing in Al Gore so at least I CAN live with my conscience.
Posted by: chris | May 30, 2008 1:15 PM
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I like the idea of a non-caucasian as U.S. President...but I am not convinced that Obama has enough of a resume for me to vote for him.
Posted by: Kevin99999 | May 30, 2008 1:14 PM
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My Goodness!!! He sounds like Peggy Noonan.
Posted by: M.A. T. | May 30, 2008 1:12 PM
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As a female chicagoan, I am upset by the lack of control the Obama campaign has over this Church, that is obviously under a microscope after Rev. Wright. Are we to next await an appearance from Rev. Meeks from the Trinity Circus Tent??? That would be a perfect trifecta.
Posted by: jquinn | May 30, 2008 1:10 PM
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Here's the Sun-Times link about Pfleger: http://www.suntimes.com/news/falsani/726619,obamafalsani040504.article
"Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, he says."
Let's remind everyone that Pfleger backed up Farrakhan in a 2006 controversy over some remarkable Farrakhan bile. Pfleger criticized a mass resignation of Jewish members on a state of Illinois hate crimes commission: http://www.nbc5.com/news/7782149/detail.html?rss=chi&psp=news
Pfleger said "good riddance" to the people who had left the commission. "Leave, go ahead and go on out, we don't need that kind of a spirit or mentality and a narrowness on that kind of commission. I'm glad they're gone," Pfleger said.
What was the issue? A member of the commission, Sister Claudette Marie Muhammad, was the Nation of Islam's minister of protocol.
[She] “was under the radar until she invited other commissioners to attend a Farrakhan speech last month. Criticism of Muhammad mounted after the speech, which included references to "Hollywood Jews" promoting homosexuality and "other filth."
The three Jewish commission members who resigned wanted Muhammad to repudiate Farrakhan's criticism of Jews, gays and other groups. The Jewish Community Relations Council, representing 46 Chicago-area groups, passed a resolution supporting the three commission members.
Here's the quote from Farrakhan that Pfleger implicitly supported. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=698094
Farrakhan said, "These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It's the wicked Jews, the false Jews that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality," and "Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government" over the war in Iraq.
Why in heavens' name was Obama supporting this guy? And putting him on his Catholic advisory council?
Posted by: katmandu | May 30, 2008 1:09 PM
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Joe Smith - what an idiot!! I guess that also means that John McCain is not a legal citizen of the US since he was born on a US base in a foreign country while his father served his country. Just the fact that Obama's mother was a US citizen would be enough to make him a citizen of the US. I wonder if most Hawaiian citizens paying taxes and recieving benefits are totally unaware they are not citizens of the US. As I said - What an idiot!!
Posted by: Sunny | May 30, 2008 1:06 PM
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Trying to hang this on Barack is absolute and arrant nonsense. He isn't a Catholic; Pfleger isn't a friend or even an acquaintance. So on what basis can anyone point fingers at Barack?
In fact, the only ones who will have the gall to do so are those who are already opposed to him and looking for any opportunity to slam him. They are not interested in fairness, only in character assassination.
I guess we have to devise a new term for this:
Guilt-by-association-by-association.
And it's pitiful and pathetic, like the folks who are trying to perpetrate it.
Posted by: loco_moco | May 30, 2008 1:06 PM
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Well, this just solidifies my determination to not vote for the presidential candidate (Obama or McCain) in the general election in November. I watched the Pflager (sp) video and he is a disgusting man. The congregation cheering, jumping up and down as they greeted his ridicule of Hillary Clinton is equally disgusting. I notice Obama is not distancing himself from this clique as he remains a long-time member.
Obama's lame comments, he is "disappointed" in the Catholic Father is enough for me to say enough.
Enough of the politics of personal destruction,
Enough of the silence from the Democratic Party,
Enough of the silence from Obama's supporters as their silence endorses such needless attacks upon Senator Clinton.
Enough of the silence from the Senate members who work with both Clinton and Obama.
Enough of showing the world the ugly Americans we have become.
I am fed up with the entire lot and have no intention of knocking on doors, contributing money or voting for Senator/Candidate Obama.
Posted by: Harriett Heisey | May 30, 2008 1:05 PM
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A White Catholic preacher is spouting what is being called "Black liberation theology" and it is Obama's fault? LOL
What, no altar boys around this week. I guess Obama paid for the speaking engagement also...
My buddy from high school and I were discussing race and the political climate (I'm black, he's white, he was for Obama before I was) and he stated that racism was a thing of the past. After I stopped laughing (he wasnt serious), I asked about blacks being racist and he said there's no such thing. For the most part, black citizens don't have the POWER to make their thoughts/beliefs impact white citizens. Racism is actually having the means to deny, reject, uneducate, imprison, disenfranchise, etc. to a group of citizens. America is clearly showing its true sentiment; the US is not prepared to accept a man of color as its leader.
Posted by: isupreme | May 30, 2008 1:02 PM
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This is yet another example of a disgraceful Catholic priest, as if the Church needs any more examples. Apart from his "inspiring" message of contempt on a Sunday morning, I love Fr. Pfleger's parody of "the black man" in front of an adoring black audience. Only the "blackface" (a la Al Jolson) was missing. What is wrong with the Church, not to mention the country?
Posted by: zephyr99 | May 30, 2008 1:01 PM
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This situation is ANOTHER prime example of why our framers included "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE"!!!!!!
Posted by: Lu Franklin | May 30, 2008 12:58 PM
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The press is making an issue out of candidates' associations, while most of what's related to them merits less than a footnote Proven lies from feds in flag pins on our tax payroll are reported as palatable, even delicious, whereas soft bigotry from private citizens is presented as too much to stomach. Conservative celebs, who frame sensitivity to minorities as stifling political correctness, are undone by the word "whitey" and demand stores remove Hillary nutcrackers. As a female whitey, I thought those nutcrackers were a compliment.
Posted by: jhbyer | May 30, 2008 12:57 PM
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So this is Obama's view of Church?
It has become obvious that this is a political organization. Their tax-exempt status should be revoked.
Posted by: dee | May 30, 2008 12:57 PM
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I am an avid Senator Clinton supporter and have always tried to maintain an open mind and speak favorably of Senator Obama. After reading this article and viewing the video I am done with Senator Obama. If he becomes the Democratic nominee we are doomed. The Republicans will smear this and the other skeletons in Obama's closet to high noon.
Delegates and Super Delegates please do not endorse Senator Obama. If you do.....you will not get my vote.
Posted by: rlc | May 30, 2008 12:56 PM
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So this is Obama's view of Church?
It has become obvious that this is a political organization. Their tax-exempt status should be revoked.
Posted by: dee | May 30, 2008 12:55 PM
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I am an avid Senator Clinton supporter and have always tried to maintain an open mind and speak favorably of Senator Obama. After reading this article and viewing the video I am done with Senator Obama. If he becomes the Democratic nominee we are doomed. The Republicans will smear this and the other skeletons in Obama's closet to high noon.
Delegates and Super Delegates please do not endorse Senator Obama. If you do.....you will not get my vote.
Posted by: rlc | May 30, 2008 12:55 PM
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Once again, we have someone making comments with no idea that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING can be come public record almost immediately. This is an issue with my generation (over 50) who are not computer/internet literate.
I teach computer and internet use to middle school students. I emphasize that everything and anything they post online is immediately available to the public. Now we have people that use cell phones to record/video events and they post them online at various sites. No place is sacred, especially public venues such as places of worship.
I guess what really irritates me is that there is no thought as to what should be said about people in the public arena. These pastors, both Obama's and McCain's, who try to inspire their congregations, wind up being divisive. Ms. Clinton, who also has used words to divide, is another example of making bad choices.
We, as a society in the 21st Century, have to rise above all of this and look at individuals based on 'the content of their character', to quote Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Posted by: Wanda Kurtcu | May 30, 2008 12:53 PM
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I also find this pastor's comments to be representative of mean-spiritedness of Obama's supporters in general.
Posted by: Kevin99999 | May 30, 2008 12:52 PM
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Once again, Obama's only regrets are getting caught. Twenty years of hate and we should believe this man wants to unite us?
Posted by: Doug Carey | May 30, 2008 12:51 PM
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I am a life long liberal Democrat who has been a Hillary supporter. I had figured that if Hillary did not win the nomination I would support who ever was the candidate of the Democrats. However, I am now having second thoughts. I have seen Hillary maligned over and over again and have been called a racist by Sen. Obama supporters. It's gone too far.
If Sen. Clinton is not the nominee, then I will either not vote in the presidential election or will, for the first time in my life, vote for a Republican. If nothing else, this will be my protest to what I thought was my party but now see it has abandoned me.
I suppose some will now declare me a racist. They should look in the mirror first.
Posted by: Nadine Rizoni | May 30, 2008 12:50 PM
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Wow! Great Article. I really enjoyed reading it. I'm glad this isn't being swept under the rug. How can anyone not find this incredibly offensive?
Thanks,
Wade De Loe
Posted by: Wade De Loe | May 30, 2008 12:50 PM
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Is it just me or is all this hatred and mocking very much un-Christian-like? He's a preacher who is supposed to be responsible for teaching the Bible and that is the best he can come up with? Can anyone quote me from the Bible anywhere that endorses mocking and hatred and venom? He then apologizes to Senator Obama for offending his political goals but certainly not to Senator Clinton for the substance of his remarks. And on a larger scale how is that type of sermon appropriate in a Church founded on allegedly Christian values?
Despicable. Revoke their tax exempt charity status. It is no longer a Church; it is a political organization period.
I realize that I wrote that first part too hastily in anger and irritation. Their tax exempt status should not be revoked as they are really just worshipping at the Church of Messiah Obama which is clearly not affiliated with Jesus Christ as his Church is based on the following principles which Trinity Church is clearly not familiar with:
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another (John 13:34).
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse (Romans 12:14).
We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it (1 Corinthians 4:12).
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good (Romans 12:17-21).
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing (1 Peter 3:9).
Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble (1 John 2:9-10).
Posted by: Dijamo | May 30, 2008 12:49 PM
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Oh, please. You mean to tell me this guy said anything more offensive than recent things we've heard from John Hagee, Rod Parsley, Geraldine Ferraro or, ahem, Hillary Clinton?
Move along, media. Nothing to see here.
Now, about that matter of media complicity in the runup to the Iraq war, and the Pentagon propaganda thing that — hah! — no one's reporting on ..
Posted by: Nordstrom | May 30, 2008 12:47 PM
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I do not see the problem here. I have made fun of Clinton for her 'perseverance' and obduracy on this matter. If she was ahead (as Obama is) she would be complaining that the contender is hurting the Democrats' chances in November. And it is true: the contender right now is doing everything possible to make McCain/McBush look good.
The lady needs to learn that NO (from us voters) does indeed mean NO.
Posted by: AMviennaVA | May 30, 2008 12:46 PM
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IDONTBELIEVEIT SAID:
Fred Jones... I really hope those quotes you stated were taken out of context!! If not, they are truly, deeply disturbing. Whether the are or aren't, you have led me into doing MUCH more research on this issue, and on all of our potential nominees. Thank you for re-piquing my interest in this year's candidates and in the election once again. Through all the hype, I had stopped paying attention to what was going on.
MOST OF THE QUOTES I GAVE ARE directly from the James H. Cone book "Black Theology and Black Power." This is his seminal book on black liberation theology, and can be purchased at Amazon.com or even Trinity United Church's website bookstore. When I started researching Obama's so-called religion, I felt that I must do much more than just surf the web. I've read some of Cone's books, and I must warn you that all of that racism and hate makes for a very depressing read.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 12:45 PM
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Bet this gets posted
Posted by: TruthMatters | May 30, 2008 12:43 PM
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I think this is actually quite funny!
looky here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpIgVpjxyUw
Posted by: j | May 30, 2008 12:43 PM
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I do not believe Mr Barak Obama is sincere in his quest for the US presidency. His past is too loaded with left wing and the extreme side of it, to truly think he is the kind of Democrat renaissance. Good talking (with a definite revenge from some obscure past), good education do not lend you the top job of the nation. Hillary Clinton with her combat strenght and vigor mesmerized me tremendously and my hat to her resilience . I wish the DNC has the guts and honesty to put her up instead of Obama.
Posted by: Ho | May 30, 2008 12:42 PM
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I think this is actually quite funny!
Posted by: j | May 30, 2008 12:42 PM
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You forgot to mention the money trail. This is from today's Chicago Tribune:
"Earmarks to St. Sabina
In a Tribune story a year ago, Obama defended special budget earmarks for his district while he was a state legislator, including ones that went to programs associated with Pfleger's church. Pfleger gave Obama's campaigns $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced at least $100,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs. In that story, Pfleger said he made those donations personally, not on behalf of the church or to win grants." (end of quote)
So, Washington Post, why leave out the money? Of course you know about it ... you're the Washington Post, no? The money shows Obama in bed with this guy for many years. Only the Chicago papers carry this stuff because the mainstream media knows it would harm its darling. Where Obama is concerned, start following the money. Also think about how you can take millions of dollars, break it up into $5 contributions for which you need not report real source information, and have a handful of major donors turn out to look like hundreds of thousands of donors. It isnt that hard when you're trained in the Chicago Way. In November, I will vote my conscience. Men behaving badly should not be rewarded.
Posted by: Mandelay | May 30, 2008 12:40 PM
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My question is how does a person like this gets to be a pastor who are supposed to have judicious temperament...yet he is acting like a street bum and bums on MSNBC.
Posted by: Kevin99999 | May 30, 2008 12:40 PM
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You forgot to mention the money trail. This is from today's Chicago Tribune:
"Earmarks to St. Sabina
In a Tribune story a year ago, Obama defended special budget earmarks for his district while he was a state legislator, including ones that went to programs associated with Pfleger's church. Pfleger gave Obama's campaigns $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced at least $100,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs. In that story, Pfleger said he made those donations personally, not on behalf of the church or to win grants." (end of quote)
So, Washington Post, why leave out the money? It shows Obama in bed with this guy for many years. Only the Chicago papers carry this stuff because the mainstream media knows it would harm its darling. Where Obama is concerned, start following the money. Also think about how you can take millions of dollars, break it up into $5 contributions, and have a handful of major donors turn out to look like hundreds of thousands of donors. It isnt that hard when you're trained in the Chicago Way. In November, I will vote my conscience. Men behaving badly should not be rewarded.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 12:38 PM
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I'm an Obama supporter, but I think both Wright and Pfleger should be stripped of their collars. What kind of so-called gospel are they preaching!?Yuk!
I don't believe Obama holds these pastors' views, but I do wonder how he could tolerate listening to either one of them.
Posted by: Elariia | May 30, 2008 12:38 PM
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"First, what is it about that particular pulpit that brings out the inner Chris Rock in assorted Men of God?"
Well. Its not God that makes them all sound like Chris(EVERYBODY HATES CHRIS)Rock. But whatever it is- its gonna stick like glue. Its clear this pulpit is a magnet for HATE spouting Pastors and if you sat in the pew there for a month- you would know it.
Ber-blau says:
"I don’t doubt that he truly deplores this type of rhetoric."
I do. He NEVER NEVER would have sat in this church for years or named these men as his spiritual mentors without kbowledge and tacit agreement.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 12:37 PM
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Obama supporters seem to be missing the point of why associations are important for a lot of people when it comes to Obama.
1. Obama doesn't specify what the "change" is he is proposing other than lofty rhetoric. Rational minded people generally want specifics and REALISTIC solutions not feel good speeches.
2. Obama doesn't really have a track record for accomplishments or votes. He has voted present a ton since he has been in office so how are we supposed to judge him based on his merits?
3. Obama has made his platform based on his character and judgement; not issues. He pretty much seems to hop on the bandwagon with other democrats for most issues.
Maybe a lot of people are comfortable believing what politicians say at face value (which amazes me since I consider it extremely naive), but personally if someone doesn't have a track record to make judgements on you have to depend on things such as their associations.
Also Obama is set to make a lot of money off his supporters' personal information they have offered (estimated over $200 million already). I hope you dont mind telemarketers, robocalls and junk mail.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aW_Qty8aiVTo&refer=us
Posted by: Cryos | May 30, 2008 12:36 PM
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I don't get it. It's like a Kevin Bacon joke, this guilt by near-association.
Why don't we stick to the immorality of the war, the Katrina disaster, and the dozens of other ethical "lapses" by the Bush/McCain people, instead of wondering how close--exactly--Obama is to people who say things from the pulpit of the church he attends.
Posted by: Susan M. Schultz | May 30, 2008 12:36 PM
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I happen to have friends that have had affairs with married men, gotten DUI's, my brother is an alcoholic...the list goes on. There is not one person in the United States who does not associate with someone who has done something unexcusable. Does that mean we all have bad moral fiber? I certainaly do not have flawed moral fiber. Let's think about this. There are hundereds of media people who are paid to dig up dirt on any policial figure. Now that they have determined that Obama really has nothing to hide, they are searching within people he has some sort of connection with. Let's use our common sence...Does that mean Obama has flawed moralitiy. Absolutely not.
Posted by: Lynne Liska | May 30, 2008 12:34 PM
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I happen to have friends that have had affairs with married men, gotten DUI's, my brother is an alcoholic...the list goes on. There is not one person in the United States who does not associate with someone who has done something unexcusable. Does that mean we all have bad moral fiber? I certainaly do not have flawed moral fiber. Let's think about this. There are hundereds of media people who are paid to dig up dirt on any policial figure. Now that they have determined that Obama really has nothing to hide, they are searching within people he has some sort of connection with. Let's use our common sence...Does that mean Obama has flawed moralitiy. Absolutely not.
Posted by: Lynne Liska | May 30, 2008 12:34 PM
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A black man? Yes. But not That black man! Sorry not this man his wife is to polarizing her unlikeable demeanor.
The unappetiziing thought of President " Berrhell"
The More inspirational quest by Hillary Clinton to become the country frist Women president.
Not The Obamas they are dirty politicians cheating in caucusses! This is what has been said about the Clintons!
L.A TIMES
Some Democrats have mentioned that she could run for governor of New York if she isn't nominated for president.
That prospect unnerves some black leaders. They said they didn't want to see her challenge Paterson, who plans to run in 2010. With Paterson in the job, some black leaders want a definitive statement from Clinton that she would not subject him to a primary challenge -- and say they haven't gotten it yet.
Benjamin said: "I was pretty much appalled when supporters said one of her options was to run for governor. We have a governor. He's a black Democrat. It's not wise for them to challenge a black Democrat for governor.
"She should have come out and said a flat no, that folks were wrong, but I did not see that or hear that coming from her."
peter.nicholas@latimes.com
Posted by: rebecca johnson | May 30, 2008 12:34 PM
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C'mon! Everybody apologized. Isn't that enough?
Well, of course it is! Just wait, the mainstream media will put this insane, Trinity-approved rant into the washer and through the spin cycle within 24 hours on behalf of Obamamessiah.
As the slogan on my dad's dry-cleaned shirts used to say, "Fresh As A Daisy And Back In One Day!"
Just gotta 'poligize, that's all.
If CNN et al. had been around at the end of WWII, Hitler coulda just said he was sorry, instead of feeling so awfully pressured to euthanize himself in order to avoid the judgmental and harsh attitudes of the victors.
Of course, if the MSM in the US had been then what it is now, Hitler would have won the war.
OBAMA 08!
Posted by: Franklin | May 30, 2008 12:34 PM
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There were more than the men behind the priest. The entire congregation was on their feet cheering. This brings up the question of how Barack Obama could have attended that church for 20 years and not have known that the congregation supported, yea celebrated, such divisive thoughts and words. Face it, he used the church for political reasons, just as any politician would. He is no better than any of the sleazy politicians he derides.
Posted by: onemangrouphug | May 30, 2008 12:33 PM
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Many statements have been made in this campaign, on both sides, which are hurtful and seemingly unnecessary. I will give to the candidates a fatigue factor which undoubtedly adds to the propensity for making some remarks.
However, these men of the christian cloth cannot claim a fatigue factor. I don't understand how men who claim to be Christians can spout such vociferous remarks. What happened to the New TEstament teachings?
It is obvious in this last go around that the primarily black audience was supportive of the remarks made by this priest. Religions are well versed in misogyny. Why is it that we accept sexism? Why is it that we cannot respond to anything said by the black community without being accused of racism? How are we ever going to work our way through this thicket if we cannot talk openly?
I am a democrat from Kansas so my vote as a democrat is virtually guaranteed to be meaningless. I was going to vote for Obama because I think McCain will continue the war policies of the King who will soon be leaving. However, based on this last blast from Obama's long term friend, I think I may not vote.
Posted by: jaimetre | May 30, 2008 12:32 PM
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Many statements have been made in this campaign, on both sides, which are hurtful and seemingly unnecessary. I will give to the candidates a fatigue factor which undoubtedly adds to the propensity for making some remarks.
However, these men of the christian cloth cannot claim a fatigue factor. I don't understand how men who claim to be Christians can spout such vociferous remarks. What happened to the New TEstament teachings?
It is obvious in this last go around that the primarily black audience was supportive of the remarks made by this priest. Religions are well versed in misogyny. Why is it that we accept sexism? Why is it that we cannot respond to anything said by the black community without being accused of racism? How are we ever going to work our way through this thicket if we cannot talk openly?
I am a democrat from Kansas so my vote as a democrat is virtually guaranteed to be meaningless. I was going to vote for Obama because I think McCain will continue the war policies of the King who will soon be leaving. However, based on this last blast from Obama's long term friend, I think I may not vote.
Posted by: jaimetre | May 30, 2008 12:30 PM
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I am just trying to put myself in Obama’s place. If I were in a church, and the pastor made even one derogatory remark about "black people," I would be out of that church, never to return. I most certainly would not consider that pastor to be my "mentor and spiritual adviser" for 20 years. In addition, as I've mentioned in my prior posts, the basic theology of the church is based upon race: black liberation theology. Obama is not a stupid man; I'm sure that he understands the implications of such race-based ideas. If they were anathema to him, he would have left the church long ago. The fact that he did not speaks volumes about his character and judgment. Finally, the fact that he expects us to believe that he had no awareness of the racist and anti-American views of his 20-year "mentor and spiritual adviser" is insulting to the intelligence of an objective and informed citizen.
The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies black churches who preach theologies similar to that of Obama's as hate groups. They specifically discuss black churches who twist the story of Jesus to suggest that Jesus was black, and his murderers were white (like Rev. Wright did on video). Racism is wrong, no matter who practices it.
By the way, just for fun, and because everyone seems to think that just because the Trinity United website doesn't say "I hate whitey" on its welcome page that they must not be racist, I Googled the Ku Klux Klan and found their web page. Here is what it says about their organization on one of the pages.
FROM THE KKK WEBSITE: We are not the enemy of black people. Nathan Bedford Forrest was concerned about securing a future for his people. He was filled with intense love and compassion for his family and his nation. He wasn't consumed by hatred for the black man and woman. He realized that they were simple pawns being used by the federal agents of that time. A deeply religious man, he also felt secure in the knowledge that Jesus Christ had placed each one of his creations on Earth to fulfill a purpose.
The Ku Klux Klan led by Nathan Bedford Forrest was not the enemy of the black man and Pastor Robb and The Knights is not the enemy of the black man.
We believe in self-determination for all people. We believe that the best minds of all people should work together for the advancement and development of their own people without being hindered by another racial group. The Bible commands us to respect the boundaries of every nation and race to insure world wide peace and harmony.
YOU SEE, MOST RACIST GROUPS DO NOT ADVERTISE THEIR RACISM. In fact, they deny it stridently, while at the same time sowing the seeds of hate.
Posted by: Fred Jones | May 30, 2008 12:30 PM
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Why is this an Obama problem?
They guy IS NOT his minister, and just because he is preaching at a church and Obama IS NOT THERE, why is it Obama's problem?
You guys need to get a life ! !
When are you going to write pages of comments regarding McBush's pastors?
Posted by: Chuck Swanson | May 30, 2008 12:29 PM
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Fred Jones... I really hope those quotes you stated were taken out of context!! If not, they are truly, deeply disturbing. Whether the are or aren't, you have led me into doing MUCH more research on this issue, and on all of our potential nominees. Thank you for re-piquing my interest in this year's candidates and in the election once again. Through all the hype, I had stopped paying attention to what was going on.
Posted by: IDONTBELIEVEIT | May 30, 2008 12:27 PM
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This guy Pfleger is a known joke here, as is any white man who tries to sound like he is black. Cardinal George doesn't have the guts to get rid of him, though he has been in his post long past the 12 year limit. His church, St. Sabina, and the Trinity UCC are past due for being stripped of their tax exempt status, as politics and endorsing candidates is nearly all they talk about.
He, like many priests, is also a misogynist. Imagine saying this the same week the Vatican cracks down on women priests. No wonder educated women are leaving the Church in droves. Benedict I can handle, but I'm not going to be insulted by this two-bit hustler.
Posted by: Veronica, Chicago | May 30, 2008 12:26 PM
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As an Independent,
Once Again, these types of situations proves MY SUPPORT for Barack Obama. The reaction from people shows the utter power of this man. The fact that they(Opponents) have to gather a PRIEST or any man of the cloth. A PRIEST in order to attempt to take Obama down says a lot. It shows that they have little on Obama and Obama is the only man that can save this nation. And the anti-christian movement or the pseudo christian movement will stop at nothing to stop him EVEN USE A MAN OF THE CLOTH to sabotage. It's almost straight out of a movie. So continue your bashing but it does nothing but show his Obama's strength.
Posted by: Ken | May 30, 2008 12:24 PM
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Hail to Mr. Obama to stand up against the serpent. Stay strong Brother and let God lead you to His perfect Will. It is written that in these days, all truths will be revealed. This is what is happening in the Church today. As you can see in these comments, satan is working hard on the face of this earch. Only the ones who can discern the truth can undertand this. For all else, God Bless You.
Posted by: not necessary | May 30, 2008 12:24 PM
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Fred Jones. Amen and amen. Truth can be like a bright light in a dark room - exposing things we may not want to see... or hear. As I see the responses (many of them angry Obama supporters or "let's just move on" deniers), it occurs to me that we all need to be better students of history to learn about the Forrest and Wright-types and others.
I lived in D.C. and worked in a community garden with about 10 different nationalities represented. As we worked we would often hear the echos of Elijah Muhammed sermons spewing hate and racism from a loudspeaker mounted outside of a streetcorner business. In the garden, I would see and hear racist slurs as vicious as any KKK member coming out of the mouths of African-Americans against El Salvadorans and Vietnamese. Hmmm, I wonder if there is a connection?
Posted by: erndog | May 30, 2008 12:24 PM
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Is this a real church? Looks more like a poor attempt at standup comedy...
I think this "church" needs to have it's tax exempt status reviewed.
These are the same people who evoke the "separation of church and state" line at the drop of a hat.
Posted by: Chris | May 30, 2008 12:21 PM
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And......what is the problem?
Political correctness is killing this country, that's for sure.
Posted by: enrique | May 30, 2008 12:20 PM
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Is this a real church? Looks more like a poor attempt at standup comedy...
I think this "church" needs to have it's tax exempt status reviewed. Cause you know these are the same types of people who evoke the "separation of church and state" line at the drop of a hat.
Posted by: Chris | May 30, 2008 12:19 PM
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YOU FOLKS AT THE WP, CNN AND MSNBC ARE A BUNCH OF LIARS. WILL TO SAY AND WRITE ANYTHING TO GET ATTENTION.
THIS PASTOR IS NOT OBAMA'S NEW REVEREND HE IS AL BEST AN ACQUAINTANCE OF OBAMA.
SO iSAY TO JOHN ROBERTS, GAY ANDERSON COOPER, WHALE ON THE BEACH CANDY CROWLEY, ELMER FUDD ANDREA MITCHELL, DAVID GREGG YOU BUSH SUCK UP-- GET OF THE OBAMA REVEREND CRAP AND REPORT THE ISSUES. WE WANT TO KNOW HOW THE ECONOMY GOT IN SUCH AMESS, WHAT HAPPENING WITH THE HOUSING CRISIS,WHAT BEING DONE TO REDUCE GAS PRICES AND IF THE PRICE OF OIL PER BARRELL IS BEING MANUPULATED BY SPECULATORS. TRY SOME REAL INVESTAGATIVE REPORTING FOR A CHANGE AND LEAVE THE TABLOID CRAP TO FOX NEWS.
Posted by: ED B | May 30, 2008 12:15 PM
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YOU FOLKS AT THE WP, CNN AND MSNBC ARE A BUNCH OF LIARS. WILL TO SAY AND WRITE ANYTHING TO GET ATTENTION.
THIS PASTOR IS NOT OBAMA'S NEW REVEREND HE IS AL BEST AN ACQUAINTANCE OF OBAMA.
SO iSAY TO JOHN ROBERTS, GAY ANDERSON COOPER, WHALE ON THE BEACH CANDY CROWLEY, ELMER FUDD ANDREA MITCHELL, DAVID GREGG YOU BUSH SUCK UP-- GET OF THE OBAMA REVEREND CRAP AND REPORT THE ISSUES. WE WANT TO KNOW HOW THE ECONOMY GOT IN SUCH AMESS, WHAT HAPPENING WITH THE HOUSING CRISIS,WHAT BEING DONE TO REDUCE GAS PRICES AND IF THE PRICE OF OIL PER BARRELL IS BEING MANUPULATED BY SPECULATORS. TRY SOME REAL INVESTAGATIVE REPORTING FOR A CHANGE AND LEAVE THE TABLOID CRAP TO FOX NEWS.
Posted by: ED B | May 30, 2008 12:14 PM
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Could we have an updated definition of "spiritual adviser"? Once uon a time, and to most of us, a spiritual adviser was, like a pastor or rabbi, a teacher and guide for personal spirituality. More frequently in politics I suspect it connotes a sounding board.
SRW
Posted by: S.R. Webb | May 30, 2008 12:12 PM
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I don't believe you Joe Smith.
If Hawaii isn't legally one of our United States, then how come none of us had heard of it before?
--Grow up! Some people will say ANYTHING just to keep a black man out of office.
If Barack Obama had been from Texas, I'm sure you would have found a way to say that TEXAS wasn't legally one of the 50 states, either. --Give it a rest...
If this is true of Hawaii, what does this say about our American flag and it's 50 stars??? What does it say about the "United States"??
I believe in my country, so I refuse to believe you.
Posted by: IDONTBELIEVEIT | May 30, 2008 12:11 PM
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Perhaps the histrionics displayed by preachers like Pfleger, Hagee, Wright and Parsley can serve a useful purpose in society, but I am far more comfortable with the reasoned arguments and style exemplified by Barack Obama.
Obama would never say something like what Pfleger said. I doubt he would even think it. If Hillary Clinton has a sense of entitlement, it likely has for more to do with her past position in the White House than the color of her skin. But I'm not even sure she feels entitled. Such a presumptive attitude on Clinton's part strikes me as unthinkable. Ambitious? Quite likely. Sense of entitlement? Show me the evidence.
What we have here is a friend of Obama's advancing a particular narrative in an attempt to demean a political opponent of Obama's. It amounts to a man caught up in the moment and literally preaching to the choir, probably in a misguided attempt at gaining approval.
Will Obama have to answer for every statement ever uttered at Trinity United, or misguided motivation by anyone he has ever known? I certainly hope not. In fact, this whole discussion of the opinions of Obama's acquaintances is becoming somewhat repetitive and boring. Obama didn't and wouldn't say these things!
By the way, Berlinerblau's "to the left of Fidel Castro" crack was gratuitous and unsubstantiated. Does acknowledging white privilege first require gaining membership in the Communist Party or supporting a totalitarian regime? Please, Mr. Berlinerblau, don't go all Fox News on us.
Posted by: Tom Shire | May 30, 2008 12:08 PM
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I am an Independant usually Democratic supporter. I will vote for all Democratic Candidates however I cannot in good conscience vote for Sen Obama
For 3 simple reasons
1- I dont really know who he is
2 No Experience
3- No Judgement I find it unbelievable that he sat there for 20 yrs and did not know what was going on
Also to set the record straight I am not a racist
and I would love to see anyone qualified become President of the United States.
Frankly I was an early supporter of Colin Powell and was truly disappointed that he didnt run
Frankly even though Sen Obama will win the democratic nominating process He is going to blow the national election. He is un electible.
Posted by: Marvin Adelman | May 30, 2008 12:07 PM
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Perhaps the histrionics displayed by preachers like Pfleger, Hagee, Wright and Parsley can serve a useful purpose in society, but I am far more comfortable with the reasoned arguments and style exemplified by Barack Obama.
Obama would never say something like what Pfleger said. I doubt he would even think it. If Hillary Clinton has a sense of entitlement, it likely has for more to do with her past position in the White House than the color of her skin. But I'm not even sure she feels entitled. Such a presumptive attitude on Clinton's part strikes me as unthinkable. Ambitious? Quite likely. Sense of entitlement? Show me the evidence.
What we have here is a friend of Obama's advancing a particular narrative in an attempt to demean a political opponent of Obama's. It amounts to a man caught up in the moment and literally preaching to the choir, probably in a misguided attempt at gaining approval.
Will Obama have to answer for every statement ever uttered at Trinity United, or misguided motivation by anyone he has ever known? I certainly hope not. In fact, this whole discussion of the opinions of Obama's acquaintances is becoming somewhat repetitive and boring. Obama didn't and wouldn't say these things!
By the way, Berlinerblau's "to the left of Fidel Castro" crack was gratuitous and unsubstantiated. Does acknowledging white privilege first require gaining membership in the Communist Party or supporting a totalitarian regime? Please, Mr. Berlinerblau, don't go all Fox News on us.
Posted by: Tom Shire | May 30, 2008 12:07 PM
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My apologies to Jacques Berlinerblau, if you're not the author of this article.
Posted by: Truthmatters | May 30, 2008 12:07 PM
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Maybe Barack needs to forgo church visits for while as these pastors are all getting psst themselves with their fifteen minutes of fame.
Posted by: Anonymous | May 30, 2008 12:06 PM
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My apologies to Jacques Berlinerblau, if you're not the author of this article.
Posted by: Truthmatters | May 30, 2008 12:06 PM
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Perhaps the histrionics displayed by preachers like Pfleger, Hagee, Wright and Parsley can serve a useful purpose in society, but I am far more comfortable with the reasoned arguments and style exemplified by Barack Obama.
Obama would never say something like what Pfleger said. I doubt he would even think it. If Hillary Clinton has a sense of entitlement, it likely has for more to do with her past position in the White House than the color of her skin. But I'm not even sure she feels entitled. Such a presumptive attitude on Clinton's part strikes me as unthinkable. Ambitious? Quite likely. Sense of entitlement? Show me the evidence.
What we have here is a friend of Obama's advancing a particular narrative in an attempt to demean a political opponent of Obama's. It amounts to a man caught up in the moment and literally preaching to the choir, probably in a misguided attempt at gaining approval.
Will Obama have to answer for every statement ever uttered at Trinity United, or misguided motivation by anyone he has ever known? I certainly hope not. In fact, this whole discussion of the opinions of Obama's acquaintances is becoming somewhat repetitive and boring. Obama didn't and wouldn't say these things!
By the way, Berlinerblau's "to the left of Fidel Castro" crack was gratuitous and unsubstantiated. Does acknowledging white privilege first require gaining membership in the Communist Party or supporting a totalitarian regime? Please, Mr. Berlinerblau, don't go all Fox News on us.
Posted by: Tom Shire | May 30, 2008 12:05 PM
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My apologies to Jacques Berlinerblau, if you're not the author of this article.
Posted by: Truthmatters | May 30, 2008 12:05 PM
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So when are we as citizens going to start asking the tough questions of the candidates (from both partys) and stop the petty stuff? Are we afraid that our chosen candidate will not be the best candidate when all is said and done? Should'nt we want to have the best candidate leading our country? How will we know who that is if we avoid the real issues and continue to dwell on the non-issues? We are losing sight of what is important to our country and her people. Housing, Education, Global Warming, Poverty, Health Care, Immigration, Diplomacy and restoring our standing with other nations, Homeland Security, Terrorism, and not least of all the Wars we are currently involved in; these are the issues that matter.
Posted by: Sharon | May 30, 2008 12:04 PM
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My apologies to Jacques Berlinerblau, if you're not the author of this article.
Posted by: Truthmatters | May 30, 2008 12:04 PM
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The Falsani article reveals that Obama has been friends with Father Pfleger for decades and that Obama claims him as part of his moral compass. Given this long of an association how sincere can Obama's disclaimer be? If he had objections to Father Pfleger's positions and hatred he had plenty of time to object.
Obama appears to surround himself with very angry people.
As far as entitlement goes, how about Father Pfleger checking with his fellow sister Priests -- oh, that's right.
Posted by: Jane | May 30, 2008 12:02 PM
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Apart from politics, Trinity's and most other protestant "brands" of Christianity are bastardized forms. True Christians are meak, peaceful and "Christ-like." These people that Obama may/may not worship with along with other protestants are being decieved. Their behavior, yelling, screaming, jumping up and down like spastic buffoons is appalling.
Posted by: DM | May 30, 2008 12:01 PM
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What the hell does Barack have to do with this idiots comments? Some of you morons who write garbage like this just want a reason to dump on him. Ask Hillary why she brought the word assassination into the primaries on more than one ocassion. And some of you gave her a pass saying, she was tired. B-S! These were her words. If the Catholic Church want to cast judgement on people when their priests have been giving little boys reach arounds, then so what!
I'm really tired of all of this guilt by association garbage. Why don't you talk about Geraldine Ferraro's comments about Obama beng sexist, racist and whatever other character assassination she wants to label him? Matter of fact, look at her article in the Boston Globe today! Very innappropriate!
Hillary has been getting away with some racist inuendos without you and other racist writers getting on her for months. Now, white-working class voters is used very loosly because she gave you idiots a license to use it. Get over yourself Berlinerblau! You're an isiot!
Posted by: Craig | May 30, 2008 12:01 PM
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I don't believe you Joe Smith.
If Hawaii isn't legally a state, how come none of us have heard anything about this before?
If Barack had been from Texas, you'd try to say that TEXAS wasn't legally a state either. --Grow up. Some people will say ANYTHING it seems just to keep a black man out of office.
I'll never believe Hawaii isn't one of our 50 states... if that's so, what does it say about our American Flag with it's 50 stars???
Posted by: IDONTBELIEVEIT | May 30, 2008 11:59 AM
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For the life of me I don't understand what is up with that Trinity church. I am an Obama supporter but I have to question his judgement in attending such a type of church. I'm sure that priest was playing to the crowd. One could hear his inflections and intonations, almost sounding like Jessie or Sharpton. It's a bit patronizing. That's the problem with a lot of these "non-denomination" churches; too much politicizing. People should be there to worship not hear a speech on who to vote for. If Obama has any sense, he needs to find a standard church where there is not any politicizing of sermons.
Posted by: Jabreal00 | May 30, 2008 11:57 AM
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Sorry, but there is no fire here. The priest is speaking about privilege, and about the shock, hurt, anger so many of us feel when someone we least expect does better than we are doing. The snippet of sermon I saw was good. The Clinton illustration was consistent with the overall point he was trying to make. It ma be a bit callous with respect to her feelings, but my hunch is that for those who are offended by it, the real problem is that the truth hurts? Nobody in this election has felt more entitled to the presidency than either Clinton.
Posted by: jeff | May 30, 2008 11:57 AM
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Perhaps the histrionics displayed by preachers like Pfleger, Hagee, Wright and Parsley can serve a useful purpose in society, but I am far more comfortable with the reasoned arguments and style exemplified put by Barack Obama.
Obama would never say something like what Pfleger said. I doubt he would even think it. If Hillary Clinton has a sense of entitlement, it likely has for more to do with her past position in the White House than the color of her skin. But I'm not even sure she feels entitled. Such a presumptive attitude on Clinton's part strikes me as unthinkable. Ambition? Quite likely. Entitlement? Show me the evidence.
What we have here is a friend of Obama advancing a particular narrative in an attempt to demean a political opponent of Obama's. It amounts to a man caught up in the moment and literally preaching to the choir, probably in a misguided attempt at gaining approval.
Will Obama have to answer for every statement ever uttered at Trinity United, or by anyone he has ever known? I certainly hope not. In fact, this whole discussion of the opinions of Obama's acquaintances is becoming somewhat repetitive and boring.
Posted by: Tom Shire | May 30, 2008 11:56 AM
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Before you call anyone a racist, answer this question: ARE YOU CLOSE FRIENDS WITH A PERSON OF A DIFFERENT RACE? If you're white and all your friends are white, then you might be racist. THe same for blacks, asians or hispanics.
Second, tell me who doesn't believe that HC doesn't feel narcissistically entitled to the nomination? What did he say that was wrong?
Third, who knows when Obama was last seen at this church?
Fourth, if the best people can do is attack people around Obama as racist, then there may not be much hope for the campaign leading up to the general election.
Fifth, what about Hagee? Pfleger isn't even Obama's pastor. Hagee has the ear of very prominent Christians.
Sixth, if this is the most offensive stuff found on YouTube, we have really lost our moral compass.
Finally, this hypocritical righteous indignation is absurd. Denying that racism actually exists doesn't really mean that others who acknowledge racism are demogogues.
Posted by: CJN | May 30, 2008 11:55 AM
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Black liberation theology is a conservative theme stop depending on others to do what your suppose to do for your self. Rev Wight through all his bombastic rhetoric said nothing that wasn't true. To many of you like to call blacks racist for holding on to the scars of racism and pointing out why they have them. As a black male seeing this and the negative spin all this gets is frustrating. This time its a white Priest acknowlegding the racist-like events in this campaign and they still call it racist. Is he racist against himself? this doesn't hold true, the church is predominantly white what does this mean? It measn there are some rational people out there that have empathy and don't try to call reverse racism eveytime racism is pointed out.
Posted by: Devin | May 30, 2008 11:54 AM
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Before you call anyone a racist, answer this question: ARE YOU CLOSE FRIENDS WITH A PERSON OF A DIFFERENT RACE? If you're white and all your friends are white, then you might be racist. THe same for blacks, asians or hispanics.
Second, tell me who doesn't believe that HC doesn't feel narcissistically entitled to the nomination? What did he say that was wrong?
Third, who knows when Obama was last seen at this church?
Fourth, if the best people can do is attack people around Obama as racist, then there may not be much hope for the campaign leading up to the general election.
Fifth, what about Hagee? Pfleger isn't even Obama's pastor. Hagee has the ear of very prominent Christians.
Sixth, if this is the most offensive stuff found on YouTube, we have really lost our moral compass.
Finally, this hypocritical righteous indignation is absurd. Denying that racism actually exists doesn't really mean that others who acknowledge racism are demogogues.
Posted by: CJN | May 30, 2008 11:54 AM
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Before you call anyone a racist, answer this question: ARE YOU CLOSE FRIENDS WITH A PERSON OF A DIFFERENT RACE? If you're white and all your friends are white, then you might be racist. THe same for blacks, asians or hispanics.
Second, tell me who doesn't believe that HC doesn't feel narcissistically entitled to the nomination? What did he say that was wrong?
Third, who knows when Obama was last seen at this church?
Fourth, if the best people can do is attack people around Obama as racist, then there may not be much hope for the campaign leading up to the general election.
Fifth, what about Hagee? Pfleger isn't even Obama's pastor. Hagee has the ear of very prominent Christians.
Sixth, if this is the most offensive stuff found on YouTube, we have really lost our moral compass.
Finally, this hypocritical righteous indignation is absurd. Denying that racism actually exists doesn't really mean that others who acknowledge racism are demogogues.
Posted by: CJN | May 30, 2008 11:53 AM
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Fred Jones is my new hero. I encourage others to read his comment below.
I for one do believe in the principal of actions being more telling than rhetoric. Inaction, in this case constitutes conscious decision. To remain associated with a church and spirtual advisors who have made and continue to make racist comments and carry overtly views is unacceptable and inexcusable, especially from a man who in public rhetoric is preaching the untity doctrine.
I am have trouble believing that the sound bites that have come to light since the campaign are the first times that these men have expressed these views. I think it is a hard pill to swallow that in Obama's long associations with these men, he was unaware that they held views that were contradictory and and inflamatory to the cause of a unified nation beyond the segregated self interest of race.
Only now, when these comments are damaging to Obama's credibility as a unifier does he distance himself from a pastor and spiritual advisor of 20 years? It just feels disingenous. It feels like when you let something you thinking slip out in the heat of an argument and then try desperately to back peddle and say, "Just joking, you don't think I really feel that way do you?"
I like Obama. I am just becoming less sure that I know who Obama is. His long association with a racist church and close ties men who feel strong enough about their racist ideology to express it publicly, (How many cameras do you think they were looking into while speaking these words?) just makes me question the coviction and authenticity of Obama's public statements on race.
I want a unifier, but I am not willing pick just anyone who claims to be a unifier. I want a unifier in deed as well as in word.
I truly hope that Obama's can find a way to show me that he is that man. He may be the closest thing we have to chose from in this election.
I saddens me to think that I may have to make a decision in this race based not on what I think a candidate will do to bring us togther, but what I think the candidate will not do to tear us apart.
". . .one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
That needs to mean something to the next president of our country.
Posted by: MTerry | May 30, 2008 11:53 AM
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hello everyone on the left. I'm not trying to poke my finger in your eye. i'm not trying to laught when you're down. I'm not trying to take advantage of a very sad situation. but i just wanted to say, with your gracious permission, that you guys devour each other like the moabites and ammonites (since we're in biblical mode). i don't know what will happen in november but it almsot doesn't matter. watching you guys tear each other up is bread and circuses goone beezzzerk. i'd never vote for a democrate, even though my name is Husein, like the master of ceremonies, but you guys turn on your own faster than the turnstile in teh new york city subway at 8:15 a.m. what else is there to say. it seems half of your party is bleeding. too bad the other half isn't the heart, part.
Posted by: neostevecon | May 30, 2008 11:53 AM
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Lets stay focused. This priest was sent by Reverend Wright and the Clintons, all who want Obama to fail. We have way tooo many problems in America. The war, economy, jobs, and add the Clintons to the list if they make ot back into the white house. remeber this is the same house that the Clintons violated, especially Bill, when he had sexual realtions in the oval office.
Posted by: Deborah | May 30, 2008 11:52 AM
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Lets stay focused. This priest was sent by Reverend Wright and the Clintons, all who want Obama to fail. We have way tooo many problems in America. The war, economy, jobs, and add the Clintons to the list if they make ot back into the white house. remeber this is the same house that the Clintons violated, especially Bill, when he had sexual realtions in the oval office.
Posted by: Deborah | May 30, 2008 11:51 AM
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Jacques:
I disagree with you and those who seek to elevate every citizen’s remarks as the decline of Candidate Obama.
Senator Obama has no control nor should he about what Father Michael Pfleger says. Just as Candidate Obama has no control over what you are saying.
As for Candidate Clinton, what about what he said is not true and more widely believed than people in denial may want to believe. We are not Europe with a king/queen dictatorship. You can not play every card in the deck and then say you do not play cards.
As a candidate for office such as president, you become fair game for everybody's personal remarks. You can only make your sincere statement, hope that people are committed to truth-telling and move on - as Candidate Obama has done.
As for the parishioners in the back of Father Pfleger, they evidently agree with his statement.
As for weighing in later today, it would be wise to not. However, since this is the season for passing on one's flaws to everyone else, get your laptop ready.
As for the "undecided" - Who is undecided? Really?
If what Father Pfleger said will have the "undecided" to jump off the fence, I am wondering why they were on the fence in the first place
Lastly, we can all plant seeds of fear and make accusations, here is mine - judge not lest ye be judged.
Mary Glass - Milwaukeean
Posted by: Mary Glass | May 30, 2008 11:51 AM
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Thjs is really not a storey. I can't tell you how many people talk about Hillery Clinton's antics during this campaign...and the Clintons history of disrespecting each other and us. Time for the press to move on to something worth reporting.
Posted by: Ron J P | May 30, 2008 11:48 AM
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How can people make excuses for Obama associating with this type of "freedom of speech" for 20+years??? This is hatred, pure and simple.
Posted by: Dee | May 30, 2008 11:48 AM
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So it's a "Pastor Disaster" just cause you say it is. So sick of this suggestive fake news...
Posted by: Hillary | May 30, 2008 11:46 AM
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I didn't think this was that nuts - I actually thought it was funny - on two fronts. The first is that I can actually imagine Hillary saying that and the second is that you've got this priest up there just being nuts -- so out of character with what I remember from my parish priests.
Posted by: danielle | May 30, 2008 11:45 AM
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What an utterly ridiculous waste of newsprint! Get a life Mr. Berlinerblau.
Posted by: Paul Moore | May 30, 2008 11:45 AM
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Why does every fool minister who has running off at the mouth belong to Obama?
Posted by: Timbuk2 | May 30, 2008 11:44 AM
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oh noes ... a preacherman mocks hillary clinton! and the media unsurprisingly gobblegobblegobble the latest tag against obama.
hey, jacques, go back and review any of the cable channels during those days and report back on your findings. i suspect you'd be forced to backstep your current hanky-twisting outrage once you witnessed your media colleagues' contempt and equally noxious comments towards her following new hampshire.
Posted by: linda | May 30, 2008 11:43 AM
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I’m getting sick of these church morons running their mouths. If we didn’t live in a country with so many jesus freaks and bible thumpers, we wouldn’t be hearing this BS. If the US could move away from the primitive ideas of religion altogether, like most of Europe is doing, we’d all be better off. We need an atheist to run for president next time. Who gives an F about anyone’s imaginary friends.
Posted by: miknugget | May 30, 2008 11:43 AM
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When are folks going to stop making Senator Obama responsible and holding him accountable for the remarks made by persons in the pulpit at Trinity?
He is no more responsible for the words coming out of other peoples mouths then you are for what comes out of the mouth of your Pastor (or other spiritual leader). My goodness, if I had not attended church for 35 years, as one poster had said in another article on the same subject, I would hardly think myself in a position to comment on what someone had or had not said or done.
Just my thoughts.
Posted by: SH | May 30, 2008 11:43 AM
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God must not want Obama in the Oval Office. If he does, why do 'men-of-God' keep causing Obama so many problems? I overlooked everything about Obama, including the first pastor-disastors, until now. Enough is enough. Obama is the one who associated himself with this horrbile, hate-filled church and it will be his downfall. Did you hear them cheering this idiot on? What poor african-americans don't want to hear is that it is THEIR fault they are poor. They are just as eligible for the same Pell Grants I was. Until today, I would have voted for either Democractic nominee to keep McCain out of office. Not anymore. I hope the superdelegates hear us loud and clear. Obama now has no chance at all of beating McCain in November and it is the fault of his hate-filled black church. The difference between the Obama and the McCain preacher-issues is that McCain NEVER attended any of Hagee's sermons, let alone sat under his craziness for two entire DECADES. As much as I can't stand McCain I have to give him that much. I will hate to vote McCain in November - but I will to keep Obama out of the Oval Office.
Posted by: realist | May 30, 2008 11:41 AM
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All of this is based upon the belief that our big imaginary friend in the sky is up there judging our behavior. Carry on....
Posted by: God and Religion are all the creation of men | May 30, 2008 11:39 AM
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This guilt by association BS is just that. Hillary and McCain are both corrupt politicians surrounded by corrupt lobbyists and individuals and have horrible -religious problems, Hillary in the "Family" cult and McCain with the anti-Catholic, anti-Islamic, anti-gay rhetoric. Reporting on this shows a desperate attempt to find anything you can that might be anti-Obama...
Give it up, is it so difficult for you to accept that a black man will actually won the US presidency?
Posted by: Elbram | May 30, 2008 11:37 AM
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I can't imagine where he could have gotten the impression that Hillary feels entitled to the nomination. It's a mystery up there with transubstantiation and how magnets work.
Posted by: Media Browski | May 30, 2008 11:37 AM
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Issues can be made out of anything these days and this is a pretty stretched out example and not worthy of even this comment. I could be helping somebody cross the street or just being positive and friendly rather than wasting breath on another bogus, non-issue like this.
We all seem to forget that one of the reasons we're in the middle east - according to the stated purpose - is to defend our freedoms. This would include free speech, I think? This Pfleger character is welcome to his "opines". I don't have to swallow it!
I don't recall learning in church or school that if a person uses someone elses name in connection with an opinion and without their knowledge then I should automatically connect that person to those words. What nonsense!
Stop wasting people's time on this stuff and get into the real moral, ethical and economic issues that are wearing us all down. Black, white, green or purple!
We certainly don't need more he said she said gossip mongering to direct our thoughts and dreams.
Posted by: DH | May 30, 2008 11:35 AM
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Issues can be made out of anything these days and this is a pretty stretched out example and not worthy of even this comment. I could be helping somebody cross the street or just being positive and friendly rather than wasting breath on another bogus, non-issue lik
@ john salifu,
The only place Obama and his liberal buddies are taking this country is the fast track to socialism with a side order of Marxism for good measure. I, for one, will take a pass on his "vision" and vote for the lesser of two evils which is John McCain.