ASH, The topic has religious angles, that is the reasoning. In such a discussion as this anyone that doesn't believe in God cannot add any senseable input. By the way, An Atheist helps Islam. They don't care what you believe as long as they believe you are no threat to them. Actually, An Athiest is worse to them than Christians, Atheist don't believe in God period, and to a Muslim that makes an Atheist despicable.
Tom

[Quote]"Our national perceptions seem stuck on a few issues, national security taking the prime spot. Even though the terrorist threat is linked to a small minority of Muslims, the cloud of fear and tension creeps far beyond this narrow group of extremists."
Correct, but this has and will happen again. It happened to the Japanese in the United States at the start of World War Two. The Question is always the same, What is your position regarding the United States? A strong answer stating where your support is, is the thing the government wants to hear. However, weak answers, which shows you really don't care what happens to people in this country will cause problems. People will soon figure that out, but by the time they do, it's too late. Anything they say after their first responce is met with doubt. Do they really mean that or not?
Tom

Katherine, I don't know if you are Christian or not but you don't seem to know much about it. How old saying is "don't talk about sex, religion, or politics, I heard that when I was a child. However, religion is the hottest topic of the three now a days. Not because of people that might be willing to tolerate your belief, but from people who are atheist and seem to think that if you believe in God it is some how a slander on them. Stupid I know, but nevertheless true. And Keith Ellison, if he said the founding fathers had religion right, then he is no Muslim. Those who profess to be muslims don't believe in Jesus Christ or the resurrection. The founding fathers did believe in Jesus, and all He stands for. Therefore, Mister Ellison is a Christian if he believes in Christ, and it should be noted that Jesus amd Mohammod, or whoever, cannot live in the same heart. I don't say that, the Bible does; Acts 4:10-12; “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
Tom

Anonymous wrote : "apes are more like our cousins than grandfathers"

With the way you're thinking, it's not hard to believe that they are your cousins.

And by the way, apes are more like our cousins than grandfathers, tho we can make an exception in your case.

Aristotle, a student of Plato, was one of the most important figures in Western philosophy. His works are some of the earliest known on logic, and his philosphy profoundly influenced Judaic, Christian and Islamic theologies.

He taught, or tried to teach, Alexander the Great, reminding him that "there is no royal road to learning". Think of what he would have said if he had have to teach you? :)

Anonymous, on the other hand, the likes of you made Darwin thought that man came from apes.

But how can he prove that man evolved when clearly Aristotle is lightyears smarter than you? I'm sure you don't even know the man.

Ya know, Spidey, you're the best proof against the theory of evolution we can find.

That is what Congress should do to erase 150 years of stupidity.

Perspective wrote : "this is of course a cumulative process where knowledge builds on knowledge. "

I accept that but it's a different story if the knowledge you're referring to is a defective knowledge like evolution.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? To make the question easier let's try another one. Which should come first, 1 or 1 million? Of course it's 1. Going back to the question of chicken and egg, egg has 1 DNA while chicken has more than a million so the scientific answer to this and to end this puzzle once and for all, the answer is the EGG.

What makes evolution stupid is that instead of finding out how the DNA was being formed in that egg, their energies are more focused on HOW WILL THAT CHICKEN TURN INTO A DUCK or to that effect.

In short, evolution is unconsciously based on the concept that the chicken came first. It lenses are focused more on the BONES rather than on DNAs. WRONG AT THE FIRST STEP SO IT HAS TO BACKPEDAL TO BE EVEN CONSIDERED AS SCIENCE.

You can't build a type of science from a foundation of 1+1=1. That's possible in fiction writing, but not in science. If you want evolution to continue, put it under the subject of philosophy and not science.

That is what Congress should do erase 150 years of stupidity.

Spiderman2 - only an exceedingly stupid person would match their level of existing knowledge against some of the best thinkers around - and that is apparently what you're intent on doing. In fact, humans gain knowledge through a process called successive approximation....this is of course a cumulative process where knowledge builds on knowledge.

This is how thoughtful people proceed, and this is why scientists don't buy into your view of reality. Your preferred world view is mired somewhere in the 15th century, where early science compartmentalized the new discoveries of science with traditional religious thought - this was a balancing act that finally began to fail altogether in the 18th century Age of Enlightenment.

Your hero Thomas Jefferson, a Deist of sorts, re-wrote the bible (called the Jefferson Bible of course) to suit his own personal vision of religion, all the while accepting the contemporary vision of science - which of course was quite solidly materialistic & Newtonian - the so-called clockwork vision of the universe ...and the very inspiration for Richard Dawkins' classic work on evolution - "The Blind Watchmaker".

On the one hand, you've seen the wisdom of buying into our current level of scientific knowledge up to a point, and all the while trying to make the case for a very medieval world view. You have a huge emotional investment in your rather primitive religious view, and this goes to personality rather than cognitive talents or 'smarts'. If you were broadly educated, especially in the area of Comparative Religion, it just wouldn't be possible for you to maintain the totally orthodox and fundamentalist orientation that you so stoutly and rudely defend.

While science relies on math and empirical observation, religion relies on faith and the numinal/spiritual experiences of many mystics of various faiths and religious traditions over the centuries. The two can't be compared realistically, despite your rather obnoxious insistence to the contrary.

In truth, the tenets of Buddhism are a far closer match to current quantum realities as compared to Christianity. Your view really is very, very small and both egocentric & geocentric in the extreme. Planet earth and it's life forms are very likely not the center of the universe, whereas the Abrahamic religions insist that the opposite is true. This is medieval thinking in it's purest form.

Only humans matter, and only humans that believe the correct theology at that!!

I'm afraid you'll have to cut all those PhD types loose - they're just way too educated to come around to your way of thinking.

Perspective,

You're just adding another theory to prove another false theory. It's like creating a solution for a problem that has no solution. The end result would be another false solution. Unending stupidity.

You make a good fiction writer. Stick to it coz fiction and science don't mix. Darwin tried to mix it and thanks to him, we now have many fiction writers who are now called scientists.

To make your mind busy but not being destructive at the same time then prove this : 1+1=1

Hey, this must be the new Spiderman2 column!

Well, Spiderman, you've really been doing your homework. The next thing for you to do is acquaint yourself with complexity theory and the emergence of unpredictable, novel and increasingly complex systems over time. Patterns of complexity emerge spontaneously, in other words.

And then there's the idea of the Quantum Vacuum as the origin of all things - this idea may well be established as commonly accepted in our lifetime. The Vacuum is an infinite sea of virtual energy that is thought to give rise to all phenomena in nature, including successive and probably infinite numbers of Singularities or Big Bangs that create a infinite number of universes in the Metaverse.

And phenomena have a holographic nature, so according to quantum mechanical theory, stuff just winks in and winks out... appearing and disappearing for ever and ever at hyper-speeds - but not without a cosmic memory, so to speak. Everything and every event without exception is embedded holographically in the Vacuum, only to give rise to future phenomena that employ previously emergent patterns for the creation of 'new stuff' from the old.

Looking at fractal numbers and the computer-generated holographic patterns that this math creates gives a sense of how the universe that we know is a complete unity - every particle is in communication with every other particle. Thus, our universe (and all universes) are forever 'entangled' and have a common identitity that underlies the diversity of all things.

Now here's the catch - we must include Consciousness as the eternal co-partner with our infinite and infinitely evolving Metaverse of the Quantum Vacuum (also known as the Nuether or Zero Point Field - or Akasha).

So use the idea of God if you must, but remember that God is not Two, but is One for all time.
Now you're on the cutting edge again.......

Ash, here's more. I believe that if you read this, you'll accumulate more knowledge compared to what you've gained for the half of your life.

Dumb DNAs : The End of Evolution

A human being is composed of roughly 40 trillion cells and therefore has the same number of DNAs which is the "instruction code" of every biological cell.

Each DNA is composed of 2.9 billion base pairs or chemical compounds which are linked together to form one big instruction code. They are comparable to the zeros (0) and ones (1) embedded in computer machine codes that run computers. The use of this dual symbols ( 0 and 1) are also referred to as the binary system which all computers today use. In short, DNAs are like binary computer machine codes that instructs each cells how to operate. (DNAs uses two base pairs, AT and GC nucleotides, akin to 0 and 1 used in computers. How they formed is still beyond the reach of science)

In a way, a single human cell or any biological cell is a computer in itself. With 40 trillion DNAs inside a human body, technically, every single person is composed of 40 trillion computers. In comparison, in order for computers to contain information the size equivalent to 2.9 billion base pairs separately stored in 40 trillion DNAs , it should have a total storage capacity of 23.2 sexillion bytes or 232 followed by 20 zeros. That is equivalent to 23.2 trillion pieces of 1 giga-bytes (billion bytes) computer hard disks. Even if we give each person on earth a 80 giga-byte capacity hard disk and combine them all, it still would not be enough to store the amount of information stored inside a human body. ( A byte is a unit of computer storage space or memory capacity; each letter or numeric character is equivalent to 1 byte. A 5-letter word therefore occupies 5 bytes of storage space.)

On that aspect alone, it is really very hard to make a replica of a human being. To say that man just existed by itself thru random occurence is really idiotic coz even with intelligent help thru human intervention, it can't be done. The scientific probabililty that 2.9 billion chemical compounds would arrange themself and know what place they should occupy in a grouping and then would stop rearranging because it has reached a "finished line" and would begin to replicate itself 40 trillion times is nil or zero. For it to have some speck of possiblity, the rate in which these DNAs should change from one form to another should be very fast ( in nanoseconds or much greater ) so it would fit to the age of the universe which is just 13-20 billion years old. And since DNAs of monkeys or man never really altered since the time of Abraham or Herodotus this so called evolution of man by random mutation is definitely a sham and teachers or scientists who teach it are no different than racketeers.

At the rate in which we see DNAs evolve or change, mathematically speaking, these 2.9 billion base pairs can't rearrange in just a span of 20 billion years . The only mathematical escape is to expand the age of the universe to quintillions of years or much more which at the moment cannot be justified.

In science, mathematics is god. If it's not possible mathematically, don't try to push it because you'd either end up a fake or a fool.

With so many "scientists" supporting evolution which is mathematically impossible with respect to actual DNA rate of change vis-a-vis the age of the universe, it's quite scary to think that this world is being run by fools.

With majority of scientists, government heads and officials, university teachers, mainstream religions, all believing in this dumb theory, what could make this world a safe place to live in if all these people cannot think straight?

It doesn't take long for a place to crumble if we let mentally retardates run it. This world is being crowded with evolutionists so it won't take long either that it would crumble once again until they're all wiped out by their own idiotic minds. That may sound brutal but that what happens in the real world.

Maybe what they should be asking is not " how humans evolved? " but rather "how their brains evolved into a bunch of dumb DNAs ? " As least that question would be less damaging coz people would be treating them differently and won't allow them to be put in high places where they can exercise authority over a large number of people.

Stupidity is contageous and with them in high places , they spread the "germ" real fast.

So fast that Murphy's Law would occur in an accelerated mode and dive straight down to the doom button.

The English alphabet is composed of only 26 characters or letters. If we scamble it's letters in different combinations and we do it every second, it would take 1,278,828,834 billion years or 1,278.83 quadrillion years just to complete all the possible combinations that it can make.

With DNAs, we're talking about 2.9 billion and not just a 26 character string. Now how they computed 2.9 billion base pairs to randomly link in less than 20 billion years is a story even Mickey Mouse would find very hard to swallow. These scientists have mathematical IQs of less than 1.

It's really laughable how these people with so low IQs are the ones running our schools.

They say that birds come from dinosaurs. Yeah right, and maybe we too will have wings in some future time.

These people think worse than those in mental asylums. Now why these people aren't in straight-jackets, but rather are free infecting innocent minds and getting paid generously , that I don't understand.

I hope this earth could still contain the coming destruction these people would create.

Just as we can't mess up with gravity, surely we can't with mathematics or Murphy's Law.

Whether they know it or not, Murphy's Law dictates that a very big destruction is coming soon, and that's for sure.

Ash, let me "immerse" you to my "educational system". A bit of warning though, coz it may shake off some of the Ashes in your brain.

One Last Chance

When Albert Einstein first introduced his Theory of Special Relativity with it's equation E=mc^2, it shook the science world with great intensity. It kindled many a brilliant minds to test the equation which eventually lead to the making of the most powerful and destructive device man has ever made, the Atomic Bomb.

Although this theory was first introduced a hundred years ago in 1905, many of this world's population still have no idea what that equation really means. To describe it simply, E in the equation means energy, m is for mass or matter and c signifies the word constant which in this particular equation has a value equal to the speed of light which is 300,000,000 m/sec.

This equation interest many scientists because it says that mass or matter can be turned into energy. Since man has been doing this kind of stuff turning matter (firewood) into energy (flame), one could not help but ask, what's amazing about that?

What makes that formula amazing is that it also means that the process is reversible and therefore, instead of the usual matter to energy conversion, it's the other way around -- energy can become matter. For the sake of illustration, it's like turning fire into firewood. Energy which is invisible can become visible by transforming itself into matter. Now, isn't that really amazing ?

That's exactly how those scientists received the formula or equation when they first saw it. It's like seeing magic without the inherent trick -- unreal but real. Before that formula was introduced, nobody had thought that something can be created "from nothing". With recent experiments using particle accelerators, it's been confirmed that energy can become matter.

Another amazing thing about this formula is that the constant is so big. Three hundred million multiplied to itself means 9 is followed by 18 zeros or 9 quintillion. If we don't know what that means, it simply says that every speck of matter even how light it is, packs or contains a very large amount of energy.

If a petal of a rose flower weighs 1 gram, it simply means that that petal contains energy equal to 90 trillion joules or equivalent to an explosive force of 21.5 kilotons of TNT. To give us a glimpse of how powerful that is, the atomic bomb which was dropped in Hiroshima, Japan has an equivalent explosive power of only 12.5 kilotons of TNT. It means that just a little over than half a gram of matter was really expended in that explosion. Yes, just over half of a gram of matter, converted into pure energy, had caused that city to be flattened. A single rose petal, if converted into pure energy, can destroy a big city. Can we imagine that? It seems unrealistic, but it's true.

At first glance, everything that has been said seems very impossible and that is why until today some "scientists" are still doubtful about this formula although based on many experiments, this equation never floundered but instead constantly agrees with all experimental results that has been done for the past 100 years.

The facts presented, although proven correct, seem to be unbelievable because our senses and frame of mind just can't fathom the idea that such a delicate and lovely petal or any object as light as that can contain such a gargantuan force.

If a mere gram of petal or matter contains such a huge amount of energy, how much more the whole universe? The amount of energy needed to form this universe is simply unimaginable and mindboggling. The real question is where did that infinitesimal amount of energy came from and what or who contained it before it took shape into a visible form which we now call universe?

In a more distant future, that question will be answered when in time, its Maker will take it back again. Everyone will know Him coz when He comes back to reclaim it, it would take the same amount of energy to take back what it took to form it.

The energy involved would simply be Immeasurable and Awesome !

So awesome that no mass or matter would be able to withstand it. They would simply explode all at the same time into nothingness and it's not going to be quiet coz they will create the loudest noise or the Biggest Bang! this whole universe can blurt out. It would be somewhat like a "universal" praise, by which all matter or elements seem to shout in unison, and exclaim, "HAIL TO THE KING !!" and at the same time a call to all the people of all generations of the earth, dead or living, saying "AWAKE !!! , FOR THE BRIDEGROOM IS COMING !!!".

It will be a time when all the people born in this world would realize the true meaning of the word, ALMIGHTY !!!.

********

" And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven (universe) fled away; and there was found no place for them."

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God ..."

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

"...and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "

Revelation 20 :10 -12 & 15

********

I feel sorry for those who believe that man is a "developed" monkey which simply implies that man has no soul and therefore is not answerable to any spiritual God. I feel sorry for atheists who can't see God in little creations like that of a lovely rose petal and clueless of the fact how it could transform into a terrible wrath capable of crushing a big city. They never know that the God of Love can become a God of Wrath and that hell could be a place 9 quintillion times hotter than what one can bear.

I also feel sorry for people (owners, models and production staff) who uses sensual ads or gimmicks just to sell their wares not knowing that the money they gain is so cheap in exchange for their souls to be burned forever.

If we think that God is not capable of burning souls forever, He gave us that illustration of the rose petal that we might think of His words not only once or twice but more than 9 quintillion times.

Albert Einstein once said that, "God does not play dice". That statement is true as shown in his brilliant equation E=mc^2 But many people missed the real point and that is "God is not kidding".

"Alas, alas, that great city, ... for in one hour is she made desolate". Revelation 18:19

How can a big city be destroyed and made lifeless in one hour? The answer is in Einstein's equation but the Bible stated its forthcoming use two thousand years earlier.

"...Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tonque shall consume away in their mouth". Zechariah 14:12

God did not lack in warning the world. His warnings were written thousands of years beforehand. He's not requiring us to climb the highest mountain or swim the deepest sea to be saved. He just wants us to listen.

But not to false religions in which some of them tell their flock to eat "holy" biscuits to take away their sins; or kill "infidels" to be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven; or teach that cows are sacred but consider other people as outcasts or "untouchables"; or teaching evolution that man came from monkeys or is it the other way around?; or teach that there is no God or Maker and that their eyes or brains just pop up in there just because there's a hole or cavity in their head.

So foolish and yet billions of people believe in them. I just can't help but recall Jose Rizal's words when, in frustration, he said "Oh, what blindness, what lack of understanding !" and the words of God when He said "...thou hast tried (or tested) them who say they are apostles, but are not, and hast found them liars. " (Revelation 2:2). (Both statements refer to Catholicism but they could also be applied to all false religions and beliefs coz they are all blind and liars.)

Einstein's equation when used as a weapon may be so terrifying because of its destructiveness but it's just a foretaste of what God is really capable of coz once His final Judgment to unbelievers is rendered, there will be no words to describe it but the word, unbearable.

What's frightening about a swift destruction is that God is denying all these people a chance to say the simple words, "I'm sorry" before they die. It means that the Lord has given up on them and deny them that one last chance for salvation. Bang! and it's all over.

But God is really not that unmerciful. This gospel would be preached around the world one last time and much louder before that appointed hour of desolation will come.

Let us not wait for that last minute and deny all those people the chance to say those simple words. Help ring aloud the warning bells before its too late.

This may be their one last chance. Pass it on.

Ash, I wrote this for Jacoby. Maybe it's you who needs it more. Please substitute Jacoby's name into Ash please.

I believe Jacoby's stupidity derives from her ignorance of religion. She bunches all religions as one and the same. I hope my previous posts from other blogs would help her understand that there are some religions that are not stupid, although they may not be perfect too. (She is smart though to understand that there really are idiotic religions)

"And I will give him the morning star" Rev 2:28

This is a very deep metaphor and the bible is awashed with metaphors. Unless atheists can unscramble these metaphors in which some already accurately describes our current world events , they should be cautious of their unbelief.

Concerning her belief that the First Amendment was a secular doctrine, she may need to read these :

YOYO wrote : "How many Muslims are given that kind of intellectual freedom do you think? Or Mormons? Or Evangelicals for that matter? "

Baptists (Evangelical) are NOT considered members of their particular churches unless they become born-again and choose for themselves to be baptised as an INDEPENDENT-THINKING individual. Unlike other religions, they don't become members thru their PARENTS' CHOICE (which, by the way, is the root cause of dictatorship in society. Catholic and Islamic countries, historically, are ruled thru dictatorship).

Freedom of Conscience is a primary baptist principle and , thru the years, it has rubbed off to America's political system and even to other nations (Catholic/Islamic included).

Baptist principles have molded this country but you just don't know it. Separation of Church and State was a bi-product of that principle and it was they who insisted that it be put in the First Ammendment.

If ever you wonder why we want Separation of Church and State, it's because if we don't let our parents or church decide for our faith, why would the state? Got it?

Welcome to the United States of America.

(I want to state though that baptist is not a perfect religion. I don't think there is one. But to damn all religions and be an atheist is a very foolish decision.)

*******

Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists

The Final Letter, as Sent

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

I both weep for and laugh at the educational system that produced spiderman. Which response is appropriate depends on whether his ridiculous interpretations ever gain wider traction in America.

In response to the OP, Catherine Marshall claimed this the meeting she described was conducted by a "diverse group" but then says the group was limited to Jews, Muslims, and Christians. If the group was composed exclusively of members of a single squabbling religious heritage, how diverse could it have been?

"Everytime I quote the links to the above statements my post gets blocked"

Observer, try putting space to the links like "you tube" instead of youtube.

DZ
You ask "Based on what evidence do you claim that the Muslim Brotherhood is the ideological parent of any U.S. Muslim organization?

I base it on what the leaders of those organizations say and write to their members.
The founder of CAIR(Council on American Islamic Relations), the largest of the US Muslim organization, publicly stated that the aim of his organization is to make Islam the dominant religion of the US. This is a Muslim Brotherhood doctrine.
Read the following:
"CAIR itself has had ties to terrorism. The nonprofit lobby group is a foreign-funded spin-
off of a Hamas(A variety of The Muslim Brotherhood) front group, and it has seen several of its executives convicted of terror-related crimes since 9/11."

Kamal Nawash, head of Free Muslims Against Terrorism, finds that CAIR and similar groups condemn terrorism on the surface while endorsing an ideology that helps foster extremism, adding that "almost all of their members are theocratic Muslims who reject secularism and want to establish Islamic states."

Everytime I quote the links to the above statements my post gets blocked

I believe the letter below is one of the most important religious "speech" in the history of America.

Notice Jefferson's comment, "your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem".

This country has been built from the concepts of religion and unlike other countries, it came from wise interpretations of the Bible.

It is very important to know what's the religious view of the candidates. Jefferson's matches that of the baptists' in his time and it's important today that our future president matches ours. In short, no atheist can be president in this country for as long as this country exists.

Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists

The Final Letter, as Sent

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

Observer:

Based on what evidence do you claim that the Muslim Brotherhood is the ideological parent of any U.S. muslim organization. You don't get to fabricate linkages to support your bigotry, you actually have to show something. So, quoting the Muslim Brotherhodd means nothing regarding any U.S. organization unless you can show something other than BS.

Re: Pluralism in Islam

It is worth noting that the vast majority of Muslims living in the West today are either first or second generations of immigrants who hail from religiously intolerant societies. Intolerance of the non-Muslim is at the core of their belief system. Denigrating the other is a looming part of their worldview. Their leaders have a different message for different audiences. We call that non-integrity, they call it Taqiyeh; permissible to lie in order to advance the cause of Islam. Below is an excerpt of what they really believe.

The Muslim Brotherhood, ideological parent of MAS, CAIR and ISNA (a full-on roster of mainstream Muslim organizations) says the following about their plans for America:
"The process of settlement [of Islam in the United States] is a "Civilization-Jihadists" process with all the word means. The Ikhwan (Muslims) must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. . . " (From an extensive, high level "North American Strategy" document entered into evidence without objection in a recent Federal trial.)

From an Emo Phillips routine...

Two men meet.

"Christian or Jew?" asks the first man.

"Christian" says the second.

"Me too ! Protestant or Catholic?"

"Protestant."

"Me too," crows the first man.

And so the questioning continues, until the two men discover
they are both not only Baptists, but Northern, Conservative,
Fundamentalist Baptists of the the Great Lakes Region.

When the first man finally inquires, "Council of 1879 or Council of 1912?

the reply is "1912."

So he cries "Die Heretic!"