If you are going to attack me for stupidity and lack of morality, you at least have to ACT morally superior to me. I couldn't care less what people believe, but people like you certainly care - either with conversion by any means necessary or eternal hellfire. Real sweet, your God. My point is that a God that allows you to burn forever DOES NOT LOVE YOU. That is called apathy. Does God need a lesson on language (oh wait, I forgot, he single-handedly invented all of them)? For the people I love, I would save them from pain and suffering no matter how many times they fell short of my desires. Does this make me morally superior to God? So much for moral relativism - I guess I am relatively more moral.

Anon sez:

"God rested because he chooses to sit back relax and enjoy his work that he spent 6 days creating. It does not mean he was tired."

The Bible sez:

Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

Rested "from all his work." Sounds tired to me. Not a damn word about god "enjoying" his creation. You need to read the word "rested" in context.

Your behavior is the greatest proof of how you feel about "secularists" and other non-believers. If you didn't want us to burn, you wouldn't be agreeing with God, just like the rest of us. You hate us fervently, and love the idea of our eternal suffering. Remember, your God sees your wrath in your heart. You better get started cleaning it up, or you'll be burning right there with us.

Dear Spidey -

Is ID a science?

If it's a science, then name a single hypothesis of the ID proponents that has been submitted for peer review and that has been subjected to the rigors of the scientific method, including falsification.

If not, then crawl back under the ID rock from whence such slime arises.

Craig, you said the following:

The only conflict here is created by an oversimplification of what he said. He said he does not and would not impose his religious beliefs on other people. He did not say they would not influence his decisions. The difference is subtle, but enormous.

Craig, I wonder whether Professor Berlinerblau made the word switch on purpose. One would think that a professor would know the difference between "impose" and "influence". Even if the professor intended "impose" to mean "interject", then that would suggest a displeasure with "faith" being interjected into the public discussion in a way that would have meaningful influence.

It seems to me that the word switch was something other than an oversimplification. It didn't simplify what Candidate Huchabee said; rather, it changed what he said.

It seems that the professor "imposed" a conflict on us; perhaps, under the "influence" of a lying spirit. [No. I didn't say, "possession". No word switches, please!]

We can see the effect of "lying spirits" when we look at how deception played a major part in the current U.S. President's war in Iraq. The late President of Iraq used deceipt to trick his enemies into thinking that he was more dangerous than he really was, and that deceipt cost him his life. [Don't take that to mean that I think that he wasn't a dangerous, viscious tyrant.] The U.S. President was deceived (from within and from without) and then used deceipt to influence public opinion.

Deceit at the presidential level might have more influence than does deceit at the professorial level, but neither should be tolerated.

By the way, the solution is to wage war against the lying spirits rather than the human beings through which the lies are communicated. That's why having a President who knows how to engage in spiritual warfare would be important.

"Does spiderman2 actually think China would attack its biggest customer?"

Not only that, he believes it will happen within the next ten years, as will judgment day.

Science has proven utility for humanity, and proven predictions. It can tell me with accuracy what time the sun will rise tomorrow and on May 12, 2035. It can tell me where and what time the next total solar eclipse will occur, and when the comet Kahoutek will make it's next swing by Earth.

What will happen to Spidey's faith when his predictions don't come true? What will happen to Huckabee's when he loses? Remember, he said of his surge in the polls: "There's only one explanation for it, and it's not a human one. It's the same power that helped a little boy with two fish and five loaves feed a crowd of five thousand people."

Or will they just write it off as another case of god changing his mind? Whimsical fella, that god. Makes it tough to put any stock in much of anything he says, doesn't it?

Does spiderman2 actually think China would attack its biggest customer?

Mr. Berlinerblau has hit the nail squarely on the head. How can a candidate for public office declare that his religion is the centerpiece of his life, the well from which all else springs--and then declare that questions about his religion are off the table? That is simply an untenable position.

And the media's role is even more perplexing. How can someone make the above declaration about the centrality of his religion to everything he does--and then the media declare that it's wrong to ask him about his religion? I can think of nothing that more cogently demonstrates the failure of modern American journalism and the snobbishness and elitism that infests its ranks than that approach. Journalists are uncomfortable about probing someone about his religion, therefore, religion is off limits. Strange, indeed.

If people are so against having a pastor as a President and that his beliefs will disrupt his job, why are we not saying this about Romney? He was a Bishop, his job is the same as a pastors is, and for those of you who don't know much about the religion all the single churchs are grouped up into small regions called Stakes. Romney was the stake president. If we are making a big deal about having a former pastor run, why not make one for a former bishop?

http://www.sltrib.com//ci_7943560?IADID=Search-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com

Pam, there is no bible verse in I.D. and bible giving is not imposing one's religion. It's just a document which happened to be the source of almost all Christian beliefs and even Judaism. When it is the state that distribute bible to promote a certain christian faith over other faiths, then that would be illegal. Bible giving is done by private individuals without government help and that is legal. Muslims can distribute Koran and we baptists won't be troubled by it.

You guys have always the tendency to rule by muting information. We, on the other hand, want everything laid on the table and then scrutinize. LIARS don't like that because the LIES will be exposed.

On Judment Day, everything will be exposed so secularist should start getting used to it.

spiderman2: said:
"Mr. Mark, lets see who's ignorant and stupid if the prophecies that I tell you folks will occur. Just brace yourself the coming China-U.S war. If you folks cannot explain the mysteries behind DNA it means there are a lot of things you need to know. And part of that thing is there is Hell and if you believe you can wiggle yourself out of that place, then think again. Nobody has and will be able to see what's behind that DNA mystery just as nobody can fathom the mind of God. Once you burn, there is no solution out."

In the present war, Iraq-Afghanistan, war on terror in general which side is China on? You think "Godless" China will become an Islamic state? More likely we will become "Bible-less" and join them in their successful war on terror. That's a prediction we can live with.

DNA isn't a mystery. And it both can and does happen naturally. Accident or a supernatural being pushing buttons?

Now about hell. http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul has the full story ala sacred scriptures. Where is that story incorrect? The most grievous of sins is violations of the first commandment. If you can't abide the first the rest are meaningless. So don't be surprised when a lot of folks agree with you about hell and those who worship ball of fire God in burning bush going there.

I'm sure you feel safe since the Bible is a proved hoax. That doesn't mean you are relieved of honoring the 10 commandments. Even atheists do that and they never ever violate the first one.

Got any more prophecies? Seen anything you can say is a sign from God that Devil can't do or heard a voice from the sky or elsewhere that is definitely that of God and not Devil tricking people into violating the first commandment? According to the Bible the house of the father of Jesus is hell. Are you real sure you want to spend all eternity with Jesus?

I agree that from scriptural text that the timing does not indicate that a person such as Huckabee will be president.

I do not support the SBC's total belief on the interpretation of Ephesians 5:22. I do not believe that any woman is below her husband in any way but that she is equal to him. However, the husband serves as the spiritual leader in the home and should maintain the home environment remains in good spiritual standing and overseeing that Christ remains the center of the marriage.

Some women are strong willed and resent the term “submit” but I think a woman would find it hard to resist submitting to a husband if he loved her in the manner described in Eph. 5:25-29. Having said that I believe that more emphasis should be placed on Ephesians 5:25-29, on how the husband should love his wife.

I think that the divorce rate overall would decrease if men practiced loving their wives the way Ephesians 5:25-29 describes them to.

Better make up your mind then, Spidey - before, you were ranting about wanting to hand out bibles in schools, and have them teach ID. Clear violations of the separation of church and state. You can't have it both ways.

And you don't think RI knows its own history?

Pam, your info is riddled with falsehood. Look for other sources like the good old fahioned encyclopedia. Just as what I've said, we baptists cannot exist without "freedom of conscience" and the big consequence for that is what most peole enjoy now - the separation of church and state. You are out of you mind to insist we want to abolish that. That is our lifeblood. All the accusations about Huckabee breaking it are all hype. He's not banning atheism, he wants to ban gay marriage which is banned even in atheist states like North Korea. He can't impose it coz it would be thru legal means. You guys are so hysterical if you hear the word bible. REserve those hysterics on Judgment Day.

Spidey wrote:
"Pam, it was Rhode Island which insist to have the bill of rights included in the constitution before they can join to be the 1st 13 states. Rhode Island was almost 100 percent baptists and they can't join the federation unless that bill is guaranteed becuase they could end up in prison again as what happened before they flee to Rhode Island and made that place as their own state."

Did you not read any of the history I included above??? I gave you the actual number of churches in RI prior to that time, and Baptists make up less than half. I also showed you that RI did nothing of the kind (insisting).

Roger Williams' flight to RI was more than 100 years before the Constitution was written.

Try, just for once, getting your info somewhere other than religious sources.

Yes, the Baptists were *an* influence - not, by far, the largest.

You still haven't answered why you're pushing this idea, given that you want the wall between church and state dismantled. Please answer.

Omnipotent means all power, Rev. 19:6. God rested because he chooses to sit back relax and enjoy his work that he spent 6 days creating. It does not mean he was tired.

To repent means to turn away from. God has determined that he will not do certain things as he has done before, i.e., destroy the earth by water.

God can and has changed his mind about things; that is a good reason for prayer. In the instance of King Hezekiah it benefited him because God added fifteen years onto his life span.

Mr. Mark, lets see who's ignorant and stupid if the prophecies that I tell you folks will occur. Just brace yourself the coming China-U.S war. If you folks cannot explain the mysteries behind DNA it means there are a lot of things you need to know. And part of that thing is there is Hell and if you believe you can wiggle yourself out of that place, then think again. Nobody has and will be able to see what's behind that DNA mystery just as nobody can fathom the mind of God. Once you burn, there is no solution out.

If you guys chose to battle the most intelligent in this universe, then do it at your own risk. Because of that bible I can almost describe in detail how future wars will unravel. I don't believe Huckabee would win this comming election because the day of Judgment is near. It is more like that he could be president 10 years from now.

Angela,
If this was already stated I apologize.
In God we Trust was not in any kind of foundational document...at any time. It was placed on coins in 1865 during the civil warand used as a motto in 1956...The motto E Pluribus Unum, ("from many, one") was approved for use on the Great Seal of the United States in 1782. And Under God was placed in the Anthem in 1954, during the Red scare, about the same time that Joe McCarthy was a tyrant. Seems we always turn to tyranny when we are afraid...see 9/11-Bush.

I do not care what you believe, and no one is telling you can not worship...I really do get a bit tired of the whining of some Christians that act like they are so put upon. Mostly you all act like bullies forcing your beliefs on others.

Just who kept you from going to church, worshipping...heck you have religious holidays that everyone recognizes.

You seem to maybe have a problem with religious freedom for everyone? See you have the right to speak, but I also have the right not to have to listen...You have the right to worship as you see fit, but then so do I.

We are a secular nation with protected religious rights.

But that is why we have the Constitution...your belief means about a hill of beans, as does mine. The Constitution and the laws passed are for all of the people...not your belief, or my belief, but laws that will work for everyone. That's Democracy...

In this nation the minority is protected from the majority. That is the wonderful thing about this country, my Circle is as protected as your Church...ain't it wonderful ; ).

terra

Pam, it was Rhode Island which insist to have the bill of rights included in the constitution before they can join to be the 1st 13 states. Rhode Island was almost 100 percent baptists and they can't join the federation unless that bill is guaranteed becuase they could end up in prison again as what happened before they flee to Rhode Island and made that place as their own state. Also, "Freedom of Conscience" is a principal baptist article of faith. They live by that doctrine and the baptist religion can't exist without that doctrine.

The government is always wary about that doctrine hence the persecution. It was the baptists who insists on the separation of church and state to avoid that conflict.

SPIDERMAN2:
"Jeff P, it is easier for God to let the world self destruct than to change the Bible or His word."

Does an omnipotent god find that certain things are easy and certain things are difficult? If so, how is he omnipotent?

I know that the Biblical god rested on the 7th day because all that creatin' tired him out. Perhaps that would have been a good time for Lucifer to attack!

Is the Biblical god omnipotent if he gets tired out?

As far as changing the Bible and his word - the Bible is rife with instances of god changing his mind:

Genesis 6:6
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Exodus 32:14
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Deuteronomy 32:36
For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants.
1 Samuel 15:11
It repenteth me [God] that I have set up Saul to be king.
1 Samuel 15:35
The Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
2 Samuel 24:16
The Lord repented of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, it is enough: stay now thine hand.
1 Chronicles 21:15
The Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand.
Isaiah 38:1-5
In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah ... said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live. ... Thus saith the LORD ... I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.
Jeremiah 15:6
I [God] am weary of repenting.
Jeremaih 18:8
I [God] will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jeremaih 26:3
That I [God]may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them.
Jeremiah 26:13
The Lord will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.
Jeremiah 26:19
The Lord repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them.
Jeremaih 42:10
For I [God] repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.
Amos 7:3, 6
The Lord repented for this.
Jonah 3:10
God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them.

And, obviously, the biggest change Yahweh ever made to his word was the Second Covenant.

It would really help is Bible-thumpers like Spidey knew anything at all about the Bible. The blatant stupidity certainly wears thin after awhile.

Interestingly enough, the secular origins of the US Consitution happened to be supported and appreciated by none other than the Baptists, who in the early colonies were considered heretical by the Puritans.

Is it ironic that Huckabee would want to reverse that trend?

Again, praise be to liberals and secularists!

How do you know that G-d wrote the Bible, it is not like the Bible will say that G-d did not create the Bible, the books are for the belief in G-d of course they will say the G-d wrote the Bible?

I don't know the percentages in that year, but:

"In 1739 there were thirty-three churches in the colony; twelve Baptist, ten Quaker, six Congregational or Presbyterian, and five Episcopalian."

So Baptists were less than half, and I think it's fair to assume that it only became more diverse in the intervening years.

Also, their concerns with the Constitution were not really driven by the church/state thing:

"In 1778 the state had quickly ratified the Articles of Confederation, with its weak central government, but when the movement to strengthen that government developed in the mid-1780's, Rhode Island balked. The state's individualism, its democratic localism, and its tradition of autonomy caused it to resist the centralizing tendencies of the federal Constitution. This opposition was intensified when an agrarian-debtor revolt in support of the issuance of paper money placed the parochial Country party in power from 1786 through 1790. This political faction, led by South Kingstown's Jonathan Hazard, was suspicious of the power and the cost of a government too far removed from the grass-roots level, and so it declined to dispatch delegates to the Philadelphia Convention of 1787, which drafted the United States Constitution. Then, when that document was presented to the states for ratification, Hazard's faction delayed (and nearly prevented) Rhode Island's approval...Rhode Island's course during this turbulent era -- first in war and last in peace -- is attributable in part to its tradition of individualism, self-reliance, and dissent. Most of its residents feared the encroachment on local autonomy by any central government, whether located in London, Philadelphia, or Washington. This ideology, coupled with the economic concerns of the agrarian community, explain Rhode Island's wariness of the work of the 'Grand Convention.' Those economic worries consisted principally of a fear that the new central government would be financed by exorbitant taxes on land and that the new constitution's ban on state emissions of paper money would terminate the inflationary financial scheme formulated by Hazard and the Country party to discharge public and private debts."

Above quote from RI's own history site.

George Mason was the first to recommend that a bill of rights be added, and five of the 11 states that ratified, also expressed a desire for a bill of rights. The Virginia Declaration of Rights was influential, along with the English version, and the writings of John Locke, so your statement about it being a Baptist creation is simply wrong.

Again, what was your point?

Spiderman2:

Well, all I can say is I'm glad my vote counts as much as anyone else's (currently.)

To the extent I can, I'll be battling that theocracy all the way!

Jeff P, it is easier for God to let the world self destruct than to change the Bible or His word. Huckabee is just telling the truth.

Pam, very good that you've read it. Now, check what percentage of Baptists comprised Rhode Island during that time. If I'm not mistaken, it's almost 100 percent because they were all driven out to that state. They created that state coz they can't worship anywhere else.

You guys keep accusing me of lying. Didn't I proved that differential equation is dreaded and boring as opposed to those who accuse me? Now where is the solution if they enjoyed that subject? LIARS comprise the majority in Hell. And if the Bible says that unblievers like you go to hell, it is because you subscribe to lies or you yourselves are BIG LIARS. Show me the solution if you people enjoyed the subject and prove that you stand by your word --- ENJOYABLE.

****

An amendment to the US Constitution must be ratified by three-quarters of either the state legislatures, or of constitutional convention specially elected in each of the states, before it can come into effect.

Whether you like it or not, if that condition is met, it's gonna happen. Also, the U.S constitution has been patterned to biblical principles ever since it's conception so what's the complaining all about?

Well I have bad news for you. God owns this earth and with or without secularists' approval, that is where this world is leading to. It may lead to mass extermination if that is a prerequisite to a godly world in which Christ's principles would reign.

" ...except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved. But for the elect's sake (believer's sake) those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT? You yourselves (secularists)decided what's your fate during that "end time". That scripture was written even before you were born. But you chose to side with the unbelieving despite the fact that the future is shown right before your eyes.

In case anyone is interested in what Huckabee's separation of church and state might look like:

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the Living God. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

Luke, " I don't hate you - I am apathetic to you. I could care less, but you have vitriol running through your veins for me. I don't wish you to die in torment, but you wish me to suffer. You would be lying if you told me you didn't, simply telling yourself that you believe otherwise. I am not going to trust you on anything, no matter what you say, because you can't even be forthright with yourself and because you have the worst of intentions for me."

It would be good for you to remember that I did not write the Bible, God did. Anything quoted from scripture that offends you; your issue is not with me but with God. I suggest that you take it up with him.

Furthermore, your personal attacks on me are offensive in that you do not have grounds for the accusations that you have stated against me, if so then present them. If I didn't quote fire and brimstone, but faith, love, and prosperity, I presume you would be okay with that, right? I don't think so you are by far the hypocrite and it is very evident that you are dealing with issues of low self-confidence.

It doesn't matter that you do not trust me, really. If anyone is to be pitied here it is you. Truth is truth know matter how it is presented. It was not my intention to offend you.

E-Favorite, “As for your biblical references to impending doom – do you really think God’s kingdom on Earth is so fragile that he’d end it over a few books about atheism?”

Perhaps you had a memory lapse but my post clearly stated the following:
“I as a Christian do not feel threaten in anyway by the Atheist or their beliefs, books, or the new movement against the Christian faith. I know whom I have entrusted my future to and I am confident that is able to keep me and complete the good work he began in me.”

So again I don’t think that God is worried about a “FEW” Atheist that write best-selling books. The Bible has been on the best-selling list many times, but it is a shame that you and Atheist think that being on the “best-selling” book list is a pivotal point in life.

But then again considering the source I guess you would misconstrue, misquote, and believe that God or myself is “worried about Atheist. Actually, my Fire and brimstone, as you call it, message did not come from Revelations. Warnings of impending doom for haters of God and unbelievers are mentioned in the throughout the Bible. God did not wait until Revelations to warn mankind that if we do not believe in him and accept that he sent his only son Jesus Christ to die on the cross to redeem mankind from sin and death, that hell would be our end.

Pleeeeeeezeee B-gone, Please B-GONE aye!

Att: SPiDERMAN2, Please, Please, Take B-GONE Away! Hay Hay!

PS: Make sure They get rehabilatated back to their Natural APOCALYPTARiAN original Awareness State! Ah, 100% Pre-Apocaltptic free Psychotic. Thank You ALL.

Pam, very good that you've read it. Now, check what percentage of Baptists comprised Rhode Island during that time. If I'm not mistaken, it's almost 100 percent because they were all driven out to that state. They created that state coz they can't worship anywhere.

You guys keep accusing me of lying. Didn't I proved that differential equation is dreaded and boring as opposed to those who accuse me? Now where is the solution if they enjoyed that subject? LIARS comprise the majority in Hell. And if the Bible says that unblievers like you go to hell, it is because you subscribe to lies or you yourselves are BIG LIARS. Show me the solution if you people enjoyed the subject and prove that you stand by your word --- ENJOYABLE.

****

An amendment to the US Constitution must be ratified by three-quarters of either the state legislatures, or of constitutional convention specially elected in each of the states, before it can come into effect.

Whether you like it or not, if that condition is met, it's gonna happen. Also, the U.S constitution has been patterned to biblical principles ever since it's conception so what's the complaining all about?

Well I have bad news for you. God owns this earth and with or without secularists' approval, that is where this world is leading to. It may lead to mass extermination if that is a prerequisite to a godly world in which Christ's principles would reign.

" ...except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved. But for the elect's sake (believer's sake) those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT? You yourselves (secularists)decided what's your fate during that "end time". That scripture was written even before you were born. But you chose to side with the unbelieving despite the fact that the future is shown right before your eyes.

Anonymous:

I see you're in disguise today JJ. Too much celebrating the big win in Michigan? The rosy look to the world is only temporary.

This is not how I want it but relax. It's between Mitt and McCain, the one to be severely beaten by Barako or Hillary or both. I wouldn't accept the Republican nomination myself. Losing like religion can become habitual you know.

We import everything else and when it comes to cars pay outlandish prices, (Mini Cooper is Ford Pinto with BMW on it and a 5X price tag). Small wonder religion is imported too.

Dr.R.P.:

It's nice to hear that your neighbor wouldn't impose his religion on you, leave that to his kids.

Baptists don't drink beer. They don't do premarital sex either because that invariably leads to dancing.

Att: DR., R.P.,

Att: NORRIE, et al;

Beautuful! Beautiful Great Stuff HUMATES! Ya! Ya! Eeeee Haaa!

Norrie:

"Just as it used to be thought that George W. Bush would be a neat guy to have a beer with, it's been said that Mike Huckabee would make a wonderful next-door neighbor."

Not really. I have a "Huckabee" for a next door neighbor (not the real Huck, but someone with strong enough religious beliefs to be a suitable stand in). It is normally OK, except when his kids tell my kids that they are going to hell for not attending church. Puts me in a bind, since I'd like to lay into them (his kids, not mine), but I bite my lip since I'd like to get along with my neighbor.

And I have always suspected that our fearless leader is a real high strung guy if you get to know him, so I probably wouldn't want to have a beer with him either (OK, maybe one, if he was buying and he didn't call me any "clever" nicknames).

Spidey wrote:
"Pam, who you talking to? I said study Rhode Island history and baptist history. Not Jefferson's letter. "

Are you talking about Roger Williams??? He was long dead by the time of the Constitutional Convention, but he did (among others) contribute to the *idea* of freedom of religion. And he was an Anabaptist.

And yes, Rhode Island did send the constitution back to the drawing board, so to speak, by not ratifying because it didn't have a bill of rights. All of Rhode Island, not just the Baptists, and it wasn't just freedom of religion that they were concerned about.

But you wrote:

"separation of church and state was established by mainly baptists to avoid religious persecution from the state."

Which is quite different. And not true.

And aren't you for ending that separation? So what was your point?

Mr Jacques Berlinerblau:

Huck said he wouldn't impose his religion on anyone but was he lying? We know that it's been accepted by all religions from as far back as we can go -lies that cause people to believe, have faith are moral. God doesn't care how missionaries go about it and instantly forgives lies, (white variety) just so long as they get the job done, cause people to believe, have faith, (in Him and definitely not ministers or Bibles or anything except Him, God). So it's moral for Huck to lie about that, matters of faith.

Once you realize that religious people and ordained Baptists preachers in particular are dispensed from truth, concerning matters of morality only of course, it makes questioning them a bit tricky. But you can get to the truth if you work at it hard enough.

Now someone needs to pin Huck down on one point in particular, is faith in God or is it in the Bible is God's word and, heaven forbid that faith turns out to be in big name ministers. An answer he gave, one of them meandering sing-song wailing non answers accusing those who say the Bible is bogus of being atheists needs to be revisited.

He needs to be introduced to http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul and informed that the moral lies nonsense has been refuted. And of course, what does the Bible have to do with faith in God. He needs to be asked if one can believe in God, really God and not a book or man with book or some combination of the two, along with a mother church of course.

Then of course we can ask just how much money he's already earned leading Baptists to hell and is that symptomatic of where he will lead the country. If not hell he has in mind then why not since he's obviously a Lucifer follower? Why should I not take his faith in Lucifer as an indicator of where he would lead the country?

Of course he needs to answer the Bible based questions. In particular, how he gets around the fact that Jesus, according to the Bible says hell is paradise and His father's house, (exact quotes if you need them).

JR says:

"why don't we ask ALL the candidates to rate, on a scale of 1 to 10, how much their religious faith affects their leadership decisions?"

Wouldn't that amount to a religious test for office? Article VI kicks in.

Look, I don't think Hick, er, Huck should be asked these questions, even though he is begging such questions. I don't think any candidate should be asked such questions.

However, when a politician decides that he's going to score cheap political points with the rubes by playing the "my god - who also happens to be YOUR god - is the right god" card, then people have a right to ask him such questions. When he announces that he intends to attack and rewrite the Constitution to reflect his personal religious fantasies, then, we ALL need to know just how serious a threat he is to our democracy.

The better solution would be for Hick to just STFU about his religion, to allot as much time to discussing his religion as he does to his membership at his country club. The truth is that Hick is being pretty smarmy in his invocation of his religious beliefs. That alone ought to give one pause when considering his fitness for the Oval Office (and I say that in full awareness of how low gw bush has set the bar for who is considered fit to be president).

E Favorite,

Me too.

All the villains of history were "sincere", meaning only that they acted in accordance with their beliefs.

Regards to you.

Hi, Norrie -- I just read a news story where a self-described "liberal democrat" in Michigan decided to vote for Huckabee because he was impressed with how sincere he is.

Did these people never go to school and learn about how to judge a candidate? or did they forget along the way? Were their minds muddled by political ads? reality shows?

I don't know, but it makes me very sad.

Anon: "I will refrain from further speaking the truth, as I believe to them, but hold them in prayer, silently before God."

Good - that would be my preference. thanks for asking.

And don't worry about atheists trying to "convert" Christians -- none of them are proselytizing – just stating their views, based on the scientific and historical evidence. It’s different – it’s not indoctrination; it’s education and information. There are no fear tactics, no invisible friends or foes, no supernatural events and no sets of conflicting beliefs among different groups. Besides, there's nothing to convert TO. In my case, religious belief dropped away on its own, shortly before the books came out, based on my own reading. I’ve heard from other people who’ve read the books who say that, unlike religion, what the authors said simply made sense and put into words much of what they had already been thinking.

As for your biblical references to impending doom – do you really think God’s kingdom on Earth is so fragile that he’d end it over a few books about atheism?

Just as it used to be thought that George W. Bush would be a neat guy to have a beer with, it's been said that Mike Huckabee would make a wonderful next-door neighbor.

Now, with MH's pronouncement that the country should amend its Constitution by striking all after the enacting clause and inserting in lieu thereof the text of the Old Testament, we can see with Hamlet that:

"O villain, villain, smiling, damned villain!
... meet it is I set it down,
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain;
At least I'm sure it may be so in Denmark:"

And also in Arkansas.

And while we're all fixated on Huckabee's religion, the establishment candidates are getting a free ride. In the interest of picking the best candidate to be the Republican nominee (a novel idea, I know!), why don't we ask ALL the candidates to rate, on a scale of 1 to 10, how much their religious faith affects their leadership decisions?

For the candidates with low scores, the follow-up question is, if not your faith, what then influences your decisions? Greed, lust for power, easy access to women? Some secret inner voice that is off-limits to any public scrutiny?

For the candidates with high scores (and I dare suggest that none will want to score significantly lower than Huckabee), the media should scrutinize ALL their declared beliefs with equal vigor and skepticism.

Just because one candidate was a professional cleric in a Baptist (there seem to be a lot of folks choking on that!) denomination does not infer that he is more influenced by its tenets than any other candidate. Just look at the lay idiot-in-chief currently winding down his reign as emperor.

The bottom line is that Huckabee has defied expectations. He is not one of the establishment's anointed. With a fraction of the organization and without expert consulting and unlimited funding, he has outperformed the Chosen Ones. So once more, with feeling: hell hath no fury like an establishment political machine (especially one that highly values blue-blood pedigrees) scorned and embarassed by a populist commoner...

Isn't lying and wrath not what Jesus intended you to do? I guess these rules don't apply to you, only those you apply them too. You can ask forgiveness, but then you keep doing it. Therefore you aren't sorry. Don't feign meekness, for you are only turning people away. That must be a greater sin them all of them, leading people away from the message of Christ with your own fire and brimstone version. Just like militant Muslims, you are no different. God will have to really stretch the mercy card for you - obviously Revelations is the only part of the Bible to which you subscribe. I don't hate you - I am apathetic to you. I could care less, but you have vitriol running through your veins for me. I don't wish you to die in torment, but you wish me to suffer. You would be lying if you told me you didn't, simply telling yourself that you believe otherwise. I am not going to trust you on anything, no matter what you say, because you can't even be forthright with yourself and because you have the worst of intentions for me. Good luck converting people - leave it to the compassionate (you know, the REAL followers of Christ).

Luke, "Don't dare end your comment with PEACE when you hope for torment and torture. You aren't fooling anyone, not even the God you worship."

Please do not give me a directive, I am quite capable of directing my own path in life. The Peace is for the here and now. The future, yours, is up to what you choose to believe about what GOD HAS DETERMINED FOR JUDEGMENT REGARDING HELL, not me.

I have nothing to do with it and if you hate me or blame me because I speak what God word's says about unbeleivers then so be it. I am sorry that you feel that way but I can not change God's word.

Peace, brother here and now

Luke, don't be so quick to judge, we all have shortcomings that "God needs to sort out" of us.

Trust me on this one thing, all, and I mean all people have a closet that no one is allowed into.

Should I or anyone be required to share/tell all to everyone, NO. There are things that are of a private matter and should only be shared at the consent of the individual.

You live a lie if you say otherwise. However, Huckabee like so many other Christians need to learn the truth of the matter, that some, many people will not believe and die without Christ and end up in Hell. Whether we wish it or not; it is not man who judges that it is God and God alone who will impart that judgment.

Don't dare end your comment with PEACE when you hope for torment and torture. You aren't fooling anyone, not even the God you worship.

He seems proud of it as well, Mark. Let him be. It's not going to get him votes, and it's going to push potential Christians as far away as possible. No big deal, he only has to answer to God. Let's hope God's wrath isn't as harsh as that which Spidey wishes on is. He is a liar, saying that he doesn't wish for us to burn in hell. If he didn't wish it to be so, he would be saying that God is wrong for doing so. He wishes our suffering with every fiber of is being, yet hides it in a veil of meekness, compassion, and love. What's worse than telling a lie is living one, which I hope his God sorts out for him.

Bnichols, continue to believe what you stated until you breathe your last breath and you will be looking at me as Jesus stated of Lazarus in:

Luke 16:19-26 (19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day (20) and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus which was laid at the gate, full of sores (21) and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table, moreover the dogs came and licked his sores (22) and it came to pass, that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom, the rich man also died and was buried. (23) And in Hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (25) But Abraham said son remember that thou life-time receivedst thy good things and likewise Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted and thou art tormented (26) and besides all this between us and you THERE IS A GREAT GULF FIXED, SO THAT THEY WHICH WOULD PASS FROM HENCE TO YOU CANNOT; NEITHER CAN THEY PASS TO US, THAT WOULD COME FROM THENCE.

I have to go, PEACE.

I wrote:
"Good to see the ACLU mentioned in this thread. As a card-carrying member of that illustrious organization, it warms my heart to see that we still have the power to piss off the bigots."

Spidey responded:
"pissed is not much of a problem to us coz it's cold."

Looks like Spidey just counted himself among the bigots.

"And by the way, it was really spoken to believers, Christian believers. I'm not the least bit ashamed of my faith or the doctrines of it..." How defensive to imply MYOB! What % of Southern Baptists do you suppose read the New York Times? And if he wasn't feeling the least bit ashamed - what made him think to deny it, hmmm?

It is hard to believe that, in the first decade of the 21st century, there are so many religious nuts around!

The bible if a fairy tale people! It is no more true that the Greek or Roman myths.

E-Favorite: "Some Christians feel “under attack” because four recent books on atheism have become bestsellers. They should go to the bookstore to see the atheist books surrounded by shelves of books on Christianity, not to mention numerous different versions of the bible and “study guides” to the Bible.

Some Christians call us angry, shrill and militant just because we’re not so quiet anymore. I wish I had counted the times Christians have advised atheists on this forum to be quiet or go away, not to mention the times concerned Christians have informed us, in some cases quite cheerfully, that we’re going to hell. I understand that this is what their faith teaches them, but it does seem quite rude and like quite an imposition to threaten someone with eternal suffering, even when the person being threatened doesn’t believe that such a terrible place exists.

It doesn't surprise me that four best-selling books are written by Atheist; in fact God references that exact issue:

2 Peter 3: 3-9, (3) Knowing this first that there shall come I the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all thing continue as they were from the beginning of creation. (5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was being overflowed with water, perished (7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (8) But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If I knew that danger exited ahead and failed to advise or warn you it would not be servitude on my behalf towards my fellow-man

However, out of respect if I am advise by anyone that they do not wish to hear of the dangers and warnings facing them about Hell then I will refrain from futher speaking the truth, as I believe to them, but hod them in prayer, sliently before God.

I as a Christian do not feel threaten in anyway by the Atheist or their beliefs, books, or the new movement against the Christian faith. I know whom I have entrusted my future to and I am confident that is able to keep me and complete the good work he began in me. But do not try to convert me to an unbeliever or else I will become as what you state, "angry, shrill and militant....not so quiet anymore.

pissed is not much of a problem to us coz it's cold. I don't know with fire if it touches those who pissed.

Good to see the ACLU mentioned in this thread. As a card-carrying member of that illustrious organization, it warms my heart to see that we still have the power to piss off the bigots.

And all because we defend even their Constitutional rights.

Paganplace:
"Just because one doesn't believe does not make it false."

Just cause one believes something doesn't make it objectively-true, either. If you claim objective truth about mere belief and then claim disbelief in *your particular belief* is beneath you, then, we're at an impasse which renders your position an unsuitable basis for governance.

Saying, 'This is true for everyone cause I believe it, even if it contradicts evidence' does not put you on an equal footing with those who wish to govern based on the facts we all *can* acknowledge.

It's intellectual dishonesty, really, inadvertent or not.

"Who said that, well I believe that God did in scripture, imagine that. God also said in scripture that he reigns and he put those in position of power that he wants there, and takes those out of position that he wants. So how much power or reigning do you, we, the people think that we have over the election choice of President?"

We, the people, friend, ...we do not *reign.* This is not a country of kingship, even by mobs.

Neither does the President *reign* in place of 'God' or any God. He ...presides."
Let me respond by saying:

Your quote:"We are at an impasse which renders your position an unsuitable basis for governance"

Being at an impasse as you stated does not make my position an unsuitable basis for governance but merely states the fact that we are at variance with the issue, thus allowing either party to exert taking the, their is