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Huckabee's Next Religion Test
Now I esteem Chuck Norris and three-chord Rock as much as the next guy, but I am still a tad skeptical about Mike Huckabee's chances of winning his party's presidential nomination.
It seems doubtful, for example, that he will carry New Hampshire--if only because Evangelicals there do not comprise anywhere near the 38% of Republican voters that they do in Iowa. It is estimated that about 18% of the Republican electorate in New Hampshire is Evangelical (versus, incidentally, a whopping 53% in South Carolina).
It is for this reason that Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary is our friend, our teacher. It wants to help us answer a question and that question is: will Republicans and Independents with no particular investment in a biblical worldview (though with no particular disdain for it either) find something else about Huckabee that convinces them to vote for him?
I might be wrong but I am going to assume that the answer to that question is “no.” And now Mike Huckabee’s candidacy becomes our friend and our teacher as well. For his autumnal surge permits us to ponder a theory that has been widely discussed over the past year. Namely, that the GOP is a house divided. On one side, so goes the theory, stand the Conservative Christians. On the other, everyone else.
If Huckabee comes in third or worse, it would raise concerns that he only excites the Party’s born-again contingent. If that is indeed the case then the entire forthcoming primary saga will be about finding a consensus candidate. The nominee will have to be acceptable to Evangelicals. But at the same time he will need to receive the support of the pro-Big Business faction, Libertarians, cigar-chomping blue bloods, neo-Conservatives and secular Republicans (remember them?), among others.
Mitt Romney and John McCain make adequate compromise candidates. Both have courted the Evangelical vote (McCain, however, emerged as a suitor only recently) . Both could be acceptable to the non-Christian Conservative wing of the GOP.
Mike Huckabee and Rudy Giuliani are less well suited for this role. Huck--with his FairTax plan, with his informal just-‘a-sittin’-here-eatin’-some-ribs-and-thinkin’-about-the-world approach to foreign policy, with his excessive Christing-up--makes certain types of Republicans very nervous. While Giuliani initially polled well among Evangelicals, the mere presence of a Baptist pastor on the slate may have convinced them that they shouldn’t settle for a pro-Choice candidate whose character issues disturb them.
If Huckabee and Giuliani come to represent two opposing wings of the Party, then Romney, McCain or even Fred Thompson stand to benefit. This is the lesson that New Hampshire might teach us on Tuesday night.
(For more information about religion and the candidates, visit Faith 2008 by the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace & World Affairs.)
By Jacques Berlinerblau |
January 6, 2008; 3:04 PM ET
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Posted by: Anonymous | January 10, 2008 8:26 AM
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Very well-written, I like it.
Mitt Romney would not be the best consensus candidate, evangelicals have had a hard time gripping with mormonism and most other people just have a tough time gripping with the fact that he's a jerk. He's very close to the Guiliani side, more pro-business and pro-terror, but he at least claims to be pro-life and anti-gay. So that's something to put him more towards the middle I suppose. McCain or Thompson I think are your two consensus candidates.
Now, after the fact, McCain won and Huckabee came in third. What does that say? Third is not that bad considering how little campaigning he has done in the state. McCain has been campaigning heavily in New Hampshire for some time now, a consensus candidate maybe but I think it just had to do with Huckabee taking the air out of Romney in Iowa. McCain has always done well in New Hampshire.
Posted by: Thomas | January 9, 2008 9:57 AM
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As a Christian it has always stumped me why (evangelical) Christians have of late been inclined to think a Christian, by virtue of being one, is innately qualified to lead a country or the world, when Jesus was quite clear that his Kingdom was not of this world and he was crucified for having an agenda over and against the political power interests of those in high places.
Posted by: Jemila | January 9, 2008 9:43 AM
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They are called "base pairs" because they don't exist individually but in pairs, hence they become binary. Nice try Mortifus. Dr. R.P., say something with substance. Show us what your brain is made of. Give us something related to science and not just trash talking. Let's see why you believe in evolution. Give us your thoughts why it conviced you to be a Monkey Design believer.
Posted by: spiderman2 | January 9, 2008 9:37 AM
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When Darwin formulated his evolution theory, he has no knowledge of DNA and his way of inquiry is purely "visual" or simple observation thru his eyes. The reason why computers can create "virtual reality" is because physical science can be duplicated by math or equations. Darwin has nothing of these -- no math or equations or chemical equations. Nothing but just visual observation. The reason why he has such a shalow way of proving things is because he's not a physicist or an engineer. Most "scientists " who believes in evolution has no such background. Some years from now , evolution will fade away because it's just a dream. You can't equate it with math or pure science coz it's just a fantasy. Sorry guys but you bet on the wrong guy. But it's still not too late. You can still change your bet.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 9, 2008 9:15 AM
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Upto now , nobody knows why there is gravity in matter or mass. That is the reason why there is still no anti-gravity device coz gravity can't be fully understood or defined. We can only overpower it but we can't turn it off. Upto now, nobody knows why DNAs which are just like digital binary computer codes can transform into life or consciousness. Science can only mimic or copy it's behavior but they still don't know what's behind it. Upto now, nobody knows where or what is the source of energy that transforms into matter which comprise our universe. Upto now, nobody knows how to restore a dead person to live again. Upto now, nobody can predict what's gonna happen tomorrow but only one book had predicted what will happen centuries ahead. One book predicted, amongs all its other fulfilled predictions, that somebody will die and in 3 days will arise and will manifest himself to those who believe. I'm a recipient of that prophecy. The same book say there is Hell. If you're part of the "nobody knows", what authority do you have to contradict a book that has already proven itself ? Think about it before it's too late.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 9, 2008 8:52 AM
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Spiderman2, just thought I'd throw some red meat your way: there are no gods, not even yours, and there never has been. Your god is as man-made as is sewage is man-made.
You are delusional to the extreme, and your claim to be an engineer makes one think that you neither know what an engineer is, nor do you possess the intelligence to realize that nobody believes you.
Maybe a Delusion Engineer, did you get your master's in Delusions? MAD, Master of Arts Delusions.
Nobody is going to burn, everybody is just going to rot. But some will be spending time in little white rooms before then.
Your satan god is as much a fantasy as any of the other gods you believe in.
Posted by: Mortifus | January 9, 2008 7:51 AM
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Park, Christians are kind but they are not idiots. Throw him a stone and see what happens. They are godly but it doesn't mean you can spit on them without reprisal. Most of the damage during WWIII would come from a Christian country who happens to have a much larger stick than it's enemies. God loves gays but if they don't heed to God's plea of repentance, they would burn just as you would burn if you remain ignorant of God's ways. It's blessed not to retaliate but I'm sorry, I feel some people need some spanking to get straight.
Posted by: spiderman2 | January 9, 2008 7:39 AM
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Anonymous said "Geez. Time for your meds, zipperhead. What a whacko."
Park, you hypocrite. Try saying that to your saintly boss if you don't get a blackeye. I just replied to a whaco. There is what we call as self defense.
Posted by: spiderman2 | January 9, 2008 7:21 AM
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Spidey,
Do you have any idea how you come across as a self-called Christian? You might try actually living by the Beatitudes and the rest of the Sermon on the Mount as you spread your absolutely false version on the Internet. How do you say what you say, yet think you understand and live by the Bible? It amazes me. These people trying to treat you civilly and reason with you are far more Christian in their behavior than you have been. Please re-read Matthew 5-7, then think. Please.
Posted by: Parker | January 9, 2008 6:06 AM
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Im human and you align yourself with the monkeys. Now who's wacho, monkey brain? You don't even have an idea how DNA works and you already know how humans developed? I study things before I believe it. How about you? Relying on what "scientists" say? Would you believe, most of them don't have any engineering background? Concluding thru visual observation? Yucks. Monkeys and humans are relatives coz they look the same? Go call bananas your relative coz both of you share the same DNA, idiot. Also get yourself a big freezer coz global warming could kill you. You have an expensive brain coz most of it is left unused. Hmm, by the way, it's not global warming, dumbo, you just forgot to take off your straight-jacket. Take it off so you won't feel like burning. BTW, show us what you learn about evolution. Let's see if you've learned enough to get you out of that mental hospital. Just don't say you grandpa is an ape coz i won't release you. You're still dangerous.
Posted by: spiderman2 | January 9, 2008 2:41 AM
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"The devil is "intelligent" but he mixes those "wise" reasonings with lies. Just like evolution. If you listen to the "scientists", it seems that they are telling the "truth" that man really came from monkeys."
Geez. Time for your meds, zipperhead.
What a whacko.
Oh, I'm sorry, Governor Huckabee. Didn' recognize you.
Posted by: Anonymous | January 9, 2008 1:09 AM
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Well, it's easy to pick this apart after the results tonight:
(1) There is no Thompson, so we can quit talking about him; (2) There is no Huckabee; he was a blip in a state that has one of the largest evangelical populations in the country. Also, 18% of those in New Hampshire say they're evangelical, yet Huckabee barely got 11%. That's not even quite 2/3 of *evangelicals*. (3) Hillary's experience suddenly looks huge, especially with McCain returning as a GOP heavyweight and foreign policy expert, at least in McCain's mind. Obama would be mushed flat. (4) How much damn power does this Murdoch-controlled media have over us? Every damn poll, but also every story, every column - the inevitable juggernaut of Obama - it was a media conspiracy, I tell you!
Well, maybe not, but it could've been.
One good thing has come out of the weird events in Iowa and NH: most Americans are now gonna think for themselves. Polls can be deadly accurate, polls can be wildly off base. There will be, I predict, far less shifting of voters in the last few days for either party's Top Two.
Posted by: Steve | January 9, 2008 1:06 AM
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Athena, science is not done by visual observation only. It doesn't mean that if you look like Michal Jackson, then you two are brothers. Bananas and man share a big percentage of their DNAs also to the tune of 60% I think. Wow, I didn't know bananas were my forefathers. Im an Engineer and I don't deal with fantacies like monkeys turning to humans. Darwin could have been reading a lot of werewolves stories where wolves turn to humans and vice versa. Poor guy, he doesn't have a clue what DNA is.
Posted by: spiderman2 | January 9, 2008 12:10 AM
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You won't like it if I state the future one by one. But if you have some friends in the military or in government who's high ranking enough to implement policies, then why not. We can discuss it in private. Right now, all I can give is that. The U.S and China will be banging heads in the near future. If that happens, give me call. WP knows my email. Just remember the name, spidermean2. Not man but mean.
http://spidermean2.blogs.friendster.com/spiderman2/
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 11:57 PM
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Ah... the dumbing down of America by the Christo-facist theocrats continues.
Tell me, Spidey - is "science" to blame for everything wrong with the world today? If so, then you should stop using your computer, cellphone, electric lights, antibiotics, x-rays, etc. Because all of these things stemmed from scientific discoveries.
You may not believe that humans and apes share a common ancestor. (Not monkeys - monkeys have tails. Apes do not.) However, all one has to do is look at a gorilla and see how close they resemble a human. Heck, I think I've dated a few in my single days. :D Apes, chimpanzees, and bonobos are all extremely intelligent. And they share something like 98% of their genes with humans.
Posted by: Athena | January 8, 2008 11:52 PM
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"Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." Zechariah 14:12
Wow, how accurate. There's no other phenomenon on earth that is capable of consuming flesh so fast that a person still stands on his feet as it happens. The heat must be very intense. How did the prophet knew it when there were no nukes in his time coz only a nuke can do such a thing with it's intense heat radiation? Gosh, these unbelievers has really a lot to worry about. They would rather believe that they were former monkeys to escape such wrath. What a pity.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 11:40 PM
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If the Bible is such a great predictor of things, then what are the specific predictions for the next ten years? The next twenty? The next 50? Write 'em down and we'll check you on them!
The Bible has absolutely no predictive power whatsoever. Like the prophecies of Nostradamus, the silly and ignorant love to take the ancient words and shoehorn them into current events. "Look, Nostradamus wrote the word 'Hister!' That must mean, Hitler!"
Why does no one assume it means Sister? That's a lot closer.
How easy, how imbecilic it is to find a "prediction" AFTER an event has happened! There's never anything specific in it, just a bunch of generalities (many of them mistranslated to boot!) that the simpletons morph into a "prediction", but ALWAYS. AFTER. THE. FACT.
They've been doing it for centuries, and they're still doing it today.
Simple bromides posing as simple answers to pacify simple minds.
BTW - did you hear about the psychic who wrote a daily column for the local newspaper? She was given her pink slip with a note from her boss that began, "I know that you saw this coming..."
Posted by: Mr Mark | January 8, 2008 11:23 PM
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The devil is "intelligent" but he mixes those "wise" reasonings with lies. Just like evolution. If you listen to the "scientists", it seems that they are telling the "truth" that man really came from monkeys. It's just the same with your reasonings. Full of lies. "Intelligent" at the surface level but dumb like evolution. Darwin claimed he knows where man originated when he don't even have a clue what DNA is. Even now when "science" is unprecedented, the mysteries of DNA remains a mystery. You speak about our belief when you don't know what's in the Bible. What about Dresden? Was it nuked? Was it annihilated in 1 hour? Why would you think that great city was referring to Dresden? I don't have to continue with all your points. They won't stant on its own weight. Just start looking up the sky. That would be more productive for you or you could start reading the Bible. By the way, the Bible also tells about the U.S. and China banging heads. I'm just stating that so if ever it happens (which it will) , you heard it first from the "fairy tale" book whose tales are becoming real. Hell is real if that happens, so watch out. Don't worry , the wait is not that long.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 11:14 PM
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"For all those 2000 years, it is only now that it is possible that man can annihilate whole cities in one hour or less."
If by 'only now' you mean since, say, Dresden, ...possibly. But that wasn't Apocalypse either.
"That prediction was irrelevant during all those years except now where incidentally a lot of people are now unbelievers."
So all those other times when it was absolutely essential to do the wrong thing or the world would end were... irrelevant all those other times your lot have been constantly saying the Bible says the world is going to end right now... were 'irrelevant,' despite the facts, but we're to believe you and panic now. I see.
Btw, you also *always* blame the 'unbelievers' for this apocalypse that doesn't happen no matter how hard you try to emulate it.
" Evangelists are not looking up coz we're not living in liberal coastal cities."
Hey, if you're inland, nothing bad can happen to you, right? Except drought, floods and tornadoes, none of which happen to be making the news this week, or, wait a minute... They *are,* aren't they, how bout that?
" Our place is safe."
If so, would you kindly *chill?* Thanks. :)
" Also we're not afraid of dying coz we're not frying after this life."
Are you serious? Everything you *do* seems to be based on the idea of averting the imagined 'frying' after this life. You do horrible things to others and run around screaming all the time on the *basis* of trying to save yourselfves from 'frying' after this life.
Now I have to admit that in other lives, I thought that was gonna happen, too, but... I have to say that extreme right wing Christians whose movement has its birth in the 'Great Disappointment' of the world *not* ending horribly are not the ones to be running around claiming they aren't in utter terror of death...
You're in such terror of it you want to believe the world will end before you personally ...die.
Have a little faith. You're gonna die. The world won't end. You'll be OK.
"Now, that's the thing liberals should worry about."
Nah, what we're worried about what you guys do to people when you try to insist you got some 'solution' to *death* that doesn't usually happen to involve managing *life* so very well.
Guess who wasn't the one to bring up, oh, I dunno, death and the end of the world as a major concern of government in this exchange?
That's kinda that drawback about Huckabee being taken seriously.
Don't get me wrong, Spiderman. People like you deserve to feel you have a voice in government.
But you also deserve to ...well, live better than you expect to, I guess.
Cause no one deserves what you're trying to do to the country and the world. Not even you.
Posted by: Paganplace | January 8, 2008 10:19 PM
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For all those 2000 years, it is only now that it is possible that man can annihilate whole cities in one hour or less. That prediction was irrelevant during all those years except now where incidentally a lot of people are now unbelievers. Evangelists are not looking up coz we're not living in liberal coastal cities. Our place is safe. Also we're not afraid of dying coz we're not frying after this life. Now, that's the thing liberals should worry about. If those nukes were accurately predicted by the Bible, Hell is not far behind. Also , please don't blame us evangelicals for the prophecy coz we're not yet even born when they were written. It just so happen that we have keen ears - we listen.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 9:50 PM
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Do you know how many prophesied Apocalypses I've lived to in just this one lifetime?
Even if your Apocalypse *came* without the self-fulfilling factor, it wouldn't be a prediction cause you've picked every *other* time on the calendar of human history, too.
How bout you go back to your bunkers and let us make a world for our kids. And you.
Like we always do.
You look up.
The sky isn't falling, there's just some important and eminently non-Biblical things that need doing. And not-doing.
Posted by: Paganplace | January 8, 2008 9:29 PM
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It just happen that the book was written 2000 years ago when there was no America yet and nuclear bombs also. This is a different "dream". The "dream" is happening right before our eyes. Liberals would rather believe what they don't see like monkeys turning into humans than real events happening. Wow, these guys have stiff necks. You should start looking upwards coz they're coming whether we like it or not, or get sane and somber so you can "drive" safely away. It's a "book of love". It gives warning before trouble hits you. Unless you're deft also.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 7:22 PM
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Like I said, ...drawbacks. Say, like Huck being an apocalyptic person with no understanding or caring about ...oh, I dunno, coastal cities like, ...oh, I dunno, New Orleans...
Or with some kind of real expectation that the inland Red states aren't about totally subsidized by the urban 'liberal' areas, and not the other way around.
Those 'liberals' in New York pay for your roads, dude.
Frankly, by your line of reasoning, the Red states are welcome to secede, you'll be exporting resources at cut rates within a decade.
Never mind your dreams of Apocalypse.
There's a drawback. :)
Posted by: Paganplace | January 8, 2008 6:52 PM
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Did your book happen to mention there's no safe place for someone to drop a nuke, Spiderman?
Posted by: Paganplace | January 8, 2008 6:18 PM
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It just shows that God is still in control of this world. The underlying truth about life on earth is that evil is always trumped out in the end. Huckabee or Obama may be sitting on the front seat but God is the one who really steers the car. We evangelicals tend to vote to the one whom the Driver is most comfortable with. It means he'll drive it smooth if he's comfortable. It means if ever those nukes are coming, it's not going towards our way. Hint : that great city is coastal. Does that ring a bell? Are these coastal cities liberal and mostly unbelievers? Gosh, this book is so accurate.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 5:58 PM
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Mad Love wrote: "Is it just coincidence that America is flirting with Theocracy at the same time it is flirting with Fascism?"
I see no difference btw Theocracy and Fascism. Both make up their own rules and operate in a "do it my way or else" manner. The Taliban Islamic theocracy ruled Afghanistan in a fascist manner. The Iranian theocracy is no better.
Sinclair Lewis said it many years ago: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Huckabee will never be President, nor even the GOP candidate.
Posted by: Anonymous | January 8, 2008 5:47 PM
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There are, of course, drawbacks. :)
Posted by: Paganplace | January 8, 2008 5:38 PM
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Who would have thought we'll be seeing the same bunch of people as in the days of Noah when they don't believe every word of God. "Noah, there won't be any flood, you dumbhead". "Conservatives, there won't be burning cities in one hour, you crazies". Well,the bible has been very accurate like how it described the earth floating in space even before science knew it. Who would have believe 2,000 years ago (the time the Revelation book was written), when man will be capable to desolate cities in just one hour? How accurate. Geez, these guys are so dumb just like in the days of Noah. And why would Noah or conservatives warn these people? Its because so they won't suffer, but sadly those messsengers get stoned or laughed at for warning them. The Bible is so accurate. How can anybody bet against that.
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Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 5:33 PM
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Funny thing is, while I frankly think Huckabee would be a nightmare as President, I welcome his prominence in the race.
The fact is, (and I think examination will show this isn't exactly as profound a distinction as billed,) ...he represents for those Evangelicals the first time in a long time that being an evangelical Christian doesn't have to mean being supporting a blanketly-hypocritical corporate GOP dittohead.
There's still the usual hypocrisy, of course, but I've always stood in mute wonderment about the Bush administration never managing to do or say *anything* that wasn't completely backwards to me. :)
I mean, Bush and the Neocons have been *astounding* in their ability to defy the expectation that sooner or later sincere people will agree on *something.*
I think the only thing Bush and I could agree on is that his disastrous and nasty policies have an uncanny way of profiting his allies, regardless of consequences to others.
Huckabee? Electing him would be *madness,* but I think the Religious Right 'base' may be tired of being the bad guys all the time, and at least they're feeling represented, rather than blaming the liberals when what their religion was used to enforce somehow never works out.
It'll probably turn to BS just as quick, but, for now, hey, let's look at this. That's what democracy is *supposed* to be about.
Posted by: Paganplace | January 8, 2008 5:30 PM
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Frankly, I don't think Huckabee's religion has as much to do with his appeal as the media thinks. I think people who don't typically discuss or share their faith publicly tend to get very nervous around those in other parts of the country who do. The mainstream media loves to pick up on Huckabee's sincere Baptist beliefs because they're so strange and foreign, and have proceeded to view him as an "ee-vangelical" first and foremost.
Likewise, because most reporters and media analysts really have little in common with rural "ee-vangelical" voters, they jump to their most striking characteristic - their faith - and forget about other aspects of their aspirations and identity, e.g., social class and the hunger for a shared, communal moral basis.
The complex interests of these people are not of interest to the chattering classes, though. It's way too easy to align Huckabee and his followers with Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, etc. They're all "ee-vangelicals," right? They're not people, they're robots, right? Reporters take a quote and run. The meme develops and spreads mindlessly. There are many rural voters in this country with serious concerns that Huckabee very much taps into on a number of levels - not just faith. None of the other Republicans get it.
The Northeast is a different kind of place than the Midwest, the Mountain West, and the South, and that regional difference/prejudice(evidenced here by Jacques' lame rib-eating-foriegn-policy dig) should not be used as a lazy proxy for religion.
I very much wish the Post would find someone who truly understood 'Red America,' and the culture of American evangelical Christianity, to write about these kinds of topics. This blog entry is one of several that betrays little knowledge of either.
Posted by: Jay | January 8, 2008 4:26 PM
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Bgone, Your website is hoax, so why do you continue to post its address?
Bgone- Jesus is about LOVE- and if you don't get that, I feel sorry for you.
tithing you? what the heck is that?
Man you are out there.
Posted by: Reasonable not hateful | January 8, 2008 3:47 PM
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Spidey sez:
"The bible has been warning for many years about this time. Once again the bible was right about it. Another prophecy fulfilled."
In both Matthew and Mark, Jesus falsely prophesies that the high priest would see his second coming. Didn't happen. Here it is 2000 years later, and Jesus is still MIA.
The OT test for a false prophet? If you're not right 100% of the time, you're a false prophet. Looks like Jesus was a false prophet.
Click here to examine over 200 false prophecies, unfulfilled promises and misquotes of Jesus, Yahweh and his prophets (ie: the stuff they don't teach ya in Sunday School and VBS): http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
Posted by: Mr Mark | January 8, 2008 3:06 PM
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A write-in candidate is my choice for Republican
primary: Chuck Hagel.
Exploiting God, Jesus, Bible, Allah is abhorrent.
Discrimination? Do these candidates actually think their Higher Power plays politics? Yuck.
Posted by: Judy Phillips | January 8, 2008 3:00 PM
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Spiderman2:
If you are so convinced that the "big one" is coming, I'll bet you could pick up a defunct religious cult bomb shelter cheap. Try Montana.
Posted by: Dr.R.P. | January 8, 2008 2:09 PM
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Oort, you said:
"You vote for a president because he convinces you he's a Christian, that he shares your socially conservative family values, and so on. I have no expectations I can understand why you would do this, but it does seem to be what I'm hearing you say."
As an Evangelical Christian, I don't only vote for a candidate who convinces me that he's a Christian and shares my socially conservative family values. As a Christian, I'm more radical than the liberals and more reactionary than the conservatives at the same time. Read the book called Amish Grace about the Anabaptist Christian response to the murders at West Nickle Mines School (Lancaster County, PA) to get an understanding of our family values. I'm of a different kingdom, but do take advantage of the opportunities afforded to me through citizenship in the USA. Since becoming a Christian (born again), I have voted for Jimmy Carter, John Anderson, Ronald Reagan, Geoerge H. W. Bush (twice), Robert Dole (holding my nose, if I correctly recall), and John Kerry (I didn't vote for anyone during the first election of George W. Bush). From a limited number of candidates (Democrat, Independent, Republican, etc.), I select one that I think would more closely steer the executive branch in a manner that is consistant with constitutional constraints and kingdom morals (even though, it often feels like choosing between Hitler and Mossolini).
Oort, do you hear what this Evangelical Christian is saying?
Posted by: Mennonite Christian | January 8, 2008 2:03 PM
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Spiderman2,
Perhaps you should start reading horoscopes, because you know, they are so damned accurate--just like the Bible! 100%!
Yes, even though crazy religious fanatics have been pointing to the Bible and saying the end times have come....continuously for the last 2,000 years....you Sir, actually possess uncommon wisdom and astuteness. Now, we must all admit that the evidence is really overwhelming, the end times are almost here--finally! Thank God!
Oh, the joys of a bronze-age apocalyptic religious cult!
Posted by: B-Man | January 8, 2008 1:49 PM
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Now back to the subject.
Why are D's pulling for Huck and R's for Obama. Why did the R's spend so much helping McCarthy out, 1972? Against an anti war candidate Nixon won in a landslide in spite of a stagnant economy. Ellen De Generes could beat Obama and Opra, Huckabee.
There's more to winning an election than being the best candidate?
Posted by: BGone | January 8, 2008 11:25 AM
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Reasonable not hateful:
Tithing me is not reasonable! No tithation without representation. And I'm far from alone. There was over 42 million Americans and growing over a year ago.
TAX Jews, Christians and especially Muslims the same way witch doctors, fortune tellers, palm readers and astrologers are taxed and I'll, we'll shut right up.
Over a trillion unaccounted, tax free, tax exempt, and collected at real property tax exempt facilities dollars that we must make up with our tax dollars to pay for the war in Iraq and other costs of government will go to the Vatican alone to say nothing of all the ministries. We're not represented there and have a constitutional right to challenge being effectively tithed to line their pockets.
Thank God that the terms "woman's right to chose" and "pro life" have not been heard this election season. Is that thank God or should we thank hoax buster?
Answer the simplest of questions:
Was that God in the burning bush, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Then tell me what religion, all religions are all about. Faith? BS!! Money!!!
Posted by: BGone | January 8, 2008 11:15 AM
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If the election is between Huck and Obama,"many" Evangelical will pick the big O because he has the fervor of a Christian messenger. Truthfully wouldn't you rather sit through an hour sermon delivered by O rather than by Huck?
Posted by: Batman2 | January 8, 2008 11:11 AM
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Huckabee has show consistently that he is much more ambitious than he is religious or spiritual - or however one wants to put it.
Ohg
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/01/02/huckabee-exposed-ambition-overrules-compassion/
Posted by: Ohg Rea Tone | January 8, 2008 11:04 AM
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"Alas, alas, that great city... for in one hour is she made desolate". Revelation 18: 19.
Who would have thought this time would come in which so many people would become unbelievers? The bible has been warning for many years about this time. Once again the bible was right about it. Another prophecy fulfilled. Who would have thought that it would come at a time when man has the capacity to burn big cities in just one hour with its nuclear arsenal? The cities are becoming filled with unbelievers now. Just a little more time then it would fill up to the brink and "ready for the harvest" as the bible prophesied. Wow, this book is accurate and right on target. By the way, the bible also prophesied that true believers would warn them but they won't believe. Gosh, this book is so accurate. 100 percent. And about hell? 100 percent accurate also but as the bible prophesied, the fools would not listen. Too bad.
Posted by: spiderman2 | January 8, 2008 8:13 AM
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I have to agree with B-Man. I think that there are many neochristians who so want a "Christian" in the White House and "to take this nation back for Christ" that the most important thing for them in candidate is his religion. Huckabee and Romney pandered to neochristians in Iowa more then they talked about their positions (on foreign policy, for example, in which they both have no experience)
Just as many neocons would vote for Hitler if the only choice was between him and a liberal, many neochristians have no mind of their own except to do what their "Christian leaders" like Dobson, Robertson, Craig, Haggard and Vitter tell them to do, including how to vote.
Posted by: Roy | January 8, 2008 7:42 AM
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Is it just coincidence that America is flirting with Theocracy at the same time it is flirting with Fascism?
I think folks are waking up though.
Posted by: Mad Love | January 8, 2008 7:06 AM
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I'd like to ask some questions of the Christians who come here ... not the frothing fanatics, no, I mean the mainstream Christians, the reasonable people who feel they could share the country with people like me and other unbelievers.
You vote for a president because he convinces you he's a Christian, that he shares your socially conservative family values, and so on. I have no expectations I can understand why you would do this, but it does seem to be what I'm hearing you say.
The Take Back America For Christers, I'm particularly interested in your opinion.
So, do you think you would get a Christian-run state? With prayer back in school, 10 commandments in the courthouses, constitutional amendments banning abortion and gay marriage, censorship of the public media ... all those things about our country you so vehemently disapprove of will be made illegal with criminal penalties for those who violate the new laws ...
I think it's more likely you'll get a State-run Church. Do you think your more moderate denomination is going to be included at the table, or will it be the fanatics?
I'd like to suggest that the founding fathers had a very keen sense of this, and not only desired to protect the state from the church, but also desired to protected the churches from the state.
Think about that, ok?
Posted by: Oort | January 7, 2008 11:24 PM
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Yonkers, New York
07 January 2008
Yes, to be fair, there is something else besides his religion which will, on balance, persuade a few Americans--perhaps some who very likely are Christian evangelicals or those who are hung up on religion, to vote for Baptist Christian presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, a Republican.
But serious-thinking, rational and predominantly secularist Americans will surely have second or even third thoughts about casting their vote for Mike Huckabee who has pontificated, straight from the shoulder, loudly, forthrightly and proudly, to wit:
"I believe in Jesus Christ as God, and as the Saviour of mankind." "I believe in every word of the Bible [meaning the Christian bible, of course.]" "My religion defines me."
It is close to certain that if perchance Mike Huckabee is elected President of these United States, his religion--with its whole edifice of doctrines, principles, precedents and values--will ALWAYS influence and color ALL of his judgments and decisions.
Why is this so?
His religion is so deeply and so completely embedded in his psyche, in his subconscious if you will, that he cannot help conceiving and perceiving things, events and circumstances only through the distorted prism of his Christian religion.
Thus, Mike Huckabee presents a very serious danger to a constitutionally SECULARIST America.
The Founding Fathers, exceptionally erudite and wise men that they were, made sure that the American government and society that they coceived and designed would clearly and unalterably separate CHURCH and STATE by providing for an "Establishment Clause" in the U.S. Constitution.
And why did they deliberately do this?
They did this for one very wise purpose. They wanted to make sure that America would completely avoid the dangers and the evils of a governmental and societal system where Church and State are one.
Mariano Patalinjug
MarPatalinjug@aol.com
Posted by: Mariano Patalinjug | January 7, 2008 5:29 PM
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Irony - Would it not be ironic, if after decades of wooing the conservative, religious South over to the Republican party, pandering to all religious evangelicals for the past 7 years of the bush administration, and intimating to them all that they are politically empowered, that they might be so audacious to insert their candidate into the political arena? Can you say comeuppance? Perhaps this will revalidate the intentions of our Founding Fathers concerning the necessity for the separation of church and State.
Posted by: glasmann | January 7, 2008 4:29 PM
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Man, the Rs are really in sorry shape, aren't they?
The Hero of 9/11-America's Mayor is a bust (too much time spent chasing busts other than his wive's), Fred Thompson is stuck in re-runs from the Soviet Union Days, Huck is a one-trick pony who has no support beyond the Elmer Gantry-inspired crowd, Romney's been dead meat since his faith speech (for the simple fact that he felt it necessary to give it in the first place), and Ron Paul has a bit of sense and doesn't think America is blameless for its troubles (so, he won't do among the "America, NEVER wrong" crowd).
So the Rs are stuck with McCain and his recycled Straight Talk Express to Nowhere.
Yes, John McCain, the war hero who blindly supports bush's mistake in the Middle East, and whose heroism goes on hiatus whenever there's butt kissing to be done with the Jerry Falwell's and Bob Jones' of the world.
The other R candidates must be shaking their heads in disbelief over McCain's resurrection. They must feel like they're stuck in the old SNL skit with Dana Carvey playing Poppy Bush, answering every single question put to him with the tired bromide, "stay the course...a thousand points of light...stay the course," with the other R candidates in the Jon Lovitz/Dukakis role of, "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy!"
Obama vs McCain. One advocating change, the other with a full political diaper in need of change. Who do ya think is gonna win that one?
Posted by: Mr Mark | January 7, 2008 2:40 PM
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Bud:
(sigh) http://www.hoax-buster.org
Not secular enough?
http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Huckabee!
McCain knows all about it. It's just a matter of cornering him - and others too.
What the D's need is a THIRD party candidate - evangelical will do just fine. Something about divide and conquer. Some things never change, (sigh).
Posted by: BGone | January 7, 2008 1:12 PM
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Is there anyone out there that has such a obvious, and weird, agenda, like YOU, Bgone?
Sounding rather elitist, and somewhat bigoted.
But at least some of us already knew that.
Posted by: Reasonable not hateful | January 7, 2008 12:00 PM
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Evangelicals do not care what the abilities of their presidential candidate are, they seek only the most Christian body on the ballot. A "Christian-In-Chief" is what they want. It is all they want.
Is there any body of voters on the planet more irresponsible in their voting habits than American Evangelicals?
Posted by: B-Man | January 7, 2008 11:27 AM
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"secular Republicans (remember them?)"
I wish somebody would (sigh).
Posted by: Bud | January 7, 2008 11:26 AM
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Oooops, Hello again REVi Berlinerblau, et al.
i Love the ROMNEY's not the MORMON's! How about you?
Ah, LIFE is so beautifull with the APOCALYPTARIAN NATIONS & never with the PRE-APOCALYPTARIANs!
UP Mitt ROMNEY , Hip Hip Horay! AND,
DOWN with Mike HUCKABEE wannabe acting like queen Bee via his backer, John HAGEE's "50,000,000 [Worker Bee's] A/K/A ARMAGEDDIN-ARMY" who are Pushing for Biblical WAR!
Remember: MODERN-MORALITY is Superior to BIBLICAL-MORALITY, if any any more, so to speaketh.
Down with Pre-Apocalyptic Thinkers & UP with ROMNEY. Thanks.
Beware of Huckabee's [Hagee's] ARMAGGEDIN-ARMY of 50,000,000 world-wide!
Vote: DOWN with All 'IMPORTED RELIGIONS' not Made in Sweet Sweet AMERICANO!
Vote: BLUE-BLOOD who bleeds Red like Us in U.S. of A. & elswhere!
Posted by: Ja Joz | January 7, 2008 11:08 AM
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You could describe McCain's evangelical courting as, "I'm not going to shoot you,, if you behave yourselves." Right on, NH will tell us if McCain can holster his gun.
Note that in the past no such treatment of EVs was made. Evangelicals literally ran the Republican party, and, McCain, real conservatives were big loser. This is his last hurrah so we can be sure he'll pull out all the stops.
How do you suppose he stands when neocons have a choice between him and Barak? They got three choices that, like the forward pass in football there's three possible outcomes two of which are bad. Will they stay home? Forever? Is that good for the Republican party? Maybe.
Are evangelicals really conservatives? That's a question that needs to be answered too isn't it? Aren't a lot of them black and that wing growing while the palefaces are shrinking in number?
Posted by: BGone | January 7, 2008 10:57 AM
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Nice dletion of the rest of the comments on this post from yesterday!