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The Rise of Devalued Voters
It’s official. Even though James Dobson explicitly denied it last month, we can now say with certainty: Conservative Christian America is “hopelessly fractured and internally antagonistic.”
The signs of discord can be detected on any newspaper page. Last week Pat Robertson’s decided to throw his weight behind Rudy Giuliani. This came on the heels of Paul Weyrich’s endorsement of Mitt Romney. And through it all, the surging Mike Huckabee was being feted by scores of other Evangelical and Fundamentalist pastors. (Fred Thompson, by contrast, has yet to receive the unambiguous benediction of any major Christian figure. This leads me to wonder: would his candidacy suffer in any tangible way if he were to proclaim himself an atheist?)
But disagreement over presidential aspirants is just one of many fault lines that have been exposed in recent months. To quote Antonio Gramsci “the old is dying and the new cannot be born.” A younger generation of Evangelicals is growing frustrated with the narrow, two-pronged platform advocated by the graying leadership of the movement.
On the Right many want to expand the agenda beyond abortion and Gay marriage to foreground national security. In Center and Left precincts, many Evangelicals demand greater attention to the environment, poverty, AIDS, and so forth.
This disunity among the rank-and-file dispels the Blue-State stereotype that all Conservative Christians are happy Jesus Campers—automatons of their leaders’ decrees. It also calls attention to a crisis confronting the Republicans. For just a few years ago White Evangelicals saved the GOP’s bacon. Thanks to them (and John Kerry) an incumbent president mired in a difficult war and presiding over a listless economy was somehow re-elected.
But in the current election we are seeing some of the disadvantages of pandering to a religious constituency. The Republican Party--through every fault of its own--has been dragged into Evangelical America’s long night of the soul. It has gotten itself wrapped up in the doctrinal disputes, personal rivalries, generational antagonisms and theological quirks of Conservative Christianity. Whoever does emerge as the Party’s nominee will be forced to spend an inordinate amount of valuable campaign time reweaving a coalition that has completely unraveled. Not an impossible task, but labor-intensive in the extreme.
Faith-based politicking is also risky because it alienates other constituencies. Since 2004 a new category of electoral citizen has emerged. Let’s call them “devalued voters.” First noticed in the midterm elections of 2006, they are incensed by Falwell’s post 9/11 homilies, the Schiavo affair, Bush’s faith-based initiatives, the hypocrisies of Ted Haggard and Larry Craig, and so much else. Out of a mixture of civic duty and sheer spite they will come out in droves on Election Day and they will cast their ballot against any Republican on the ticket.
Whoever wins the GOP’s nomination will be hurt by the devalueds. Giuliani, with his new and unlikely chum Pat Robertson, stands to suffer the most.
By Jacques Berlinerblau |
November 13, 2007; 8:27 AM ET
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Posted by: Ura Hack | November 15, 2007 3:52 PM
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What are the consequences of ignoring the moderates?
There are none. Maybe it's rude, maybe it's impolite, it's probably unfriendly, but the only damage done is to somebody's feelings. It does not harm the constitution certainly.
What are the consequences of ignoring the fundamentalists? Hatred, bigotry, oppressions are all passed into law. The constitution is shat upon like it was toilet paper. Dissenters are punished and we will have lost our wonderful country to history as a once-grand experiment, paid for by the blood of millions, lost to the fanatics.
If we cannot determine which evangelical is which, is it not better to assume the worst?
As I said, it may not be the moderates fault that I can't see the difference, but it is their problem. If the media is a big part of the problem, they are going to have to solve that problem.
It still appears to me that the moderates have, as I stated, sold their honor to the fanatics for a temporary place near the throne.
Posted by: Fred | November 15, 2007 12:55 PM
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"If the moderates in that population never condemn the abject hatred and bigotry of the worst amongst them, how are we who are not evangelicals, who may not be Christians, who may not be believers at all - how are we to know the difference?"
Excellent point, Fred. That is the same criticism made of moderate Muslims who seem very reluctant to criticize their religion's extremists. I absolutely agree that moderates in both Christianity and Islam need to denounce the Dobsons and Robertsons.
Having said that, the moderates' silence doesn't give the rest of us license to make sweeping generalizations. It's wrong to automatically assume that every Christian we meet wants to push American government in a theocratic direction. In fact, that's the tactic used by the theocrats - they attempt to deflect criticism by accusing critics of hating all Christians.
Also, the media is a big part of the problem - conservatives, fundamentalists, and Biblical literalists are quoted much more often than other Christians:
Posted by: Tonio | November 15, 2007 11:04 AM
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The GOP - a wholly-owned susidiary of Evangical America, Inc. - is probably now realizing that what was once a life preserver for the party has become a pair of cement overshoes.
Posted by: Jim Carlson | November 15, 2007 10:50 AM
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If there are self-described evangelical Christians who disagree with the stereotypical evangelical, why do we never hear from them?
If the moderates in that population never condemn the abject hatred and bigotry of the worst amongst them, how are we who are not evangelicals, who may not be Christians, who may not be believers at all - how are we to know the difference?
I say to you evangelicals, it may not be your fault that so many see your entire group as incredibly destructive scum, but it is your problem.
I personally see the fanaticism of these people as a social disease, they are mentally ill, perhaps insane. They are possessed by the same illness which infects the so-called islamofascists. If the evangelicals do not wish to be seen this way, it is up to them to distance themselves from it.
It appears those who are of a more moderate frame of mind have sold their honor to the fanatics for the sake of power, for the illusion of power.
Joseph McCarthy was once upon a time seen as the great defender of the American way, eventually he was censured and reviled. If you don't want this to happen to you, stop supporting it by your silence.
Posted by: fred | November 14, 2007 11:13 PM
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Are Berlinerblau's "devalued voters" Christian moderates appalled by the way Dobson and the other theocrats have hijacked the Christian religion? Small-government Republicans alienated by their party's Faustian bargain with the theocrats? Political independents who dislike the extremists in both parties? Or some combination?
I am in the third category and I take some small pleasure at seeing the theocrats hopelessly fractured. I hope it means fewer assaults on the First Amendment and fewer attempts to force religion on students in public schools. I would like to think that the defeat of the intelligent design faction in Dover, Pennsylvania, was the turning point.
the Blue-State stereotype that all Conservative Christians are happy Jesus Campers—automatons of their leaders’ decrees
This needs to be emphasized. Not all conservative Christians are Biblical literalists. Even using the word "evangelical" is misleading because a large number of evangelical Christians are far from conservative.
Posted by: Tonio | November 14, 2007 9:14 PM
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I would like to see separation of Church and State in politcal elections. You know, as the way it was written in our US Constitution. It seems this current administration does not beleive a constitution exists. Perhaps we should all stop for a few minutes and read it out loud and take the cotton out of the politicians ears.
Posted by: Bruno Jacobe | November 14, 2007 8:39 PM
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The mere idea that the term "values voters" applies only to ultra-right wing republican voters is just another media concoction. The people that have brought us thousands of dead and maimed American soldiers have no values. The people who are so gutless so as to oppose basic healthcare for poor sick kids have no values. The people who gladly take taxpayer money for their "faith-based" programs, yet claim tax exemptions because they are a "church" (of the week) have no values. The people who think animals are here for slaughter and the air and water exist merely to be fouled, based on their interpretation of the Bible, have no values.
We know who you are, where you stand, and that, in fact, you are little more than theocratic terrorists who seek refuge behind a crucifix, yet promote murder amd misery around the planet. You are an ever-shrinking cult of valueless voters, and we will flatten you decisively in 2008 using the tools that the Founding Fathers bequeathed us.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 14, 2007 7:53 PM
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The mere idea that the term "values voters" applies only to ultra-right wing republican voters is just another media concoction. The people that have brought us thousands of dead and maimed American soldiers have no values. The people who are so gutless so as to oppose basic healthcare for poor sick kids have no values. The people who gladly take taxpayer money for their "faith-based" programs, yet claim tax exemptions because they are a "church" (of the week) have no values. The people who think animals are here for slaughter and the air and water exist merely to be fouled, based on their interpretation of the Bible, have no values.
We know who you are, where you stand, and that, in fact, you are little more than theocratic terrorists who seek refuge behind a crucifix, yet promote murder amd misery around the planet. You are an ever-shrinking cult of valueless voters, and we will flatten you decisively in 2008 using the tools that the Founding Fathers bequeathed us.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 14, 2007 7:53 PM
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The mere idea that the term "values voters" applies only to ultra-right wing republican voters is just another media concoction. The people that have brought us thousands of dead and maimed American soldiers have no values. The people who are so gutless so as to oppose basic healthcare for poor sick kids have no values. The people who gladly take taxpayer money for their "faith-based" programs, yet claim tax exemptions because they are a "church" (of the week) have no values. The people who think animals are here for slaughter and the air and water exist merely to be fouled, based on their interpretation of the Bible, have no values.
We know who you are, where you stand, and that, in fact, you are little more than theocratic terrorists who seek refuge behind a crucifix, yet promote murder amd misery around the planet. You are an ever-shrinking cult of valueless voters, and we will flatten you decisively in 2008 using the tools that the Founding Fathers bequeathed us.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 14, 2007 7:52 PM
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More like devalued dollar.
Keeping on Woodruff's State of Denial theme, Washington, D.C. cannot say "The Buck stops here" because denial leads them to say "What buck ?". I noticed yesterday the President policticing as usual (is he running for office again or is it he just likes to get out around selected people) said that United States has a strong dollar. I had to turn off the tv I was laughing so hard tears blocked my vision.
Over I year ago, I said of the 109th phoney christian and conservative majority that our duly elected were acting like College kids with new credit cards. Notice the debt that keeps devaluing the United States dollar or failure by congressional oversight to look into Oil industry possibly capitalizing on war ?
Well, someone once said Governments won't act (and governments are people too) unless they got their backs to the wall. Unless denial continues to block reality we are in for one heck of a nuclear winter, reccession close to depression affecting all economies large and small in our known universe.
Don't call us, we'll call you. Don't kid yourself my friend it's all about money, faith-based programs as kickbacks and well, one candidate promising to appoint conservative judges ? That was the downfall of Gonzales and more to come.
Bottom-line here is for religion and politician to ask "What's in it for me ?". If the moral majority and neoconservatives thought they were to recieve their monetary rewards from the Kingdom of Heaven, average Americans got inflation, less healthcare and less gasolene for the dollar. I think those expected rewards from teh Kingdom of Heaven to greedy self-chosen ones were given to One-Percenters with no additional taxes thanks to Bush and Cheney.
Posted by: Hank Whatever | November 14, 2007 7:42 PM
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Since our constitution guarantees that the State and Church will be forever separated...
Since the leadership of these people are rife with hypocrisy...
Since the money machines these people run are illegally using tax exempt status to avoid taxes on their for-profit enterprizes and refuse to open their accounting records to the sunlight of public view...
THANK GOD these people are losing their grossly over-sized, and unlawful influence on our government and American way of life!
GOOD RIDDANCE TO THE "IMMORAL NON-MAJORITY"!
Posted by: JBE | November 14, 2007 5:16 PM
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The GOP had its cake, thanks to the religious voters. Then the GOP proceeded to eat that cake. They must now pay the piper (to mix metaphors; sorry).
If I were a Christian who had put my hopes in Bush, I'd be about as mad as I could get.
Posted by: Mobedda | November 14, 2007 5:05 PM
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The GOP had its cake, thanks to the religious voters. Then the GOP proceeded to eat that cake. They must now pay the piper (to mix metaphors; sorry).
If I were a Christian who had put my hopes in Bush, I'd be about at mad as I could get.
Posted by: Mobedda | November 14, 2007 5:05 PM
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"Devalued voters"? In what sense? If you mean underappreciated, okay. But you say they'll vote out of a "mixture of civic duty and sheer spite." That's an awfully pejorative characterization. Why not simply say, in some other fashion, that these people have values just as do the authoritarian religious right, and they are outraged at the assault on those values? For that matter, their values include upholding the Constitution (which should hardly be partisan), basic privacy rights and being left alone to make their own choices about their lives? Funny rhetoric.
Posted by: Batocchio | November 14, 2007 4:11 PM
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Mr. Berlinerblau is ever more perspicacious. He comes to terms perfectly with "devalued voters". (WaPO ought never to hide him under a bushel, but link him always to the Home Page.)
Posted by: jhbyer | November 14, 2007 2:13 PM
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The narrow sectarianism of Fundamentalist and Evangelical Protestantism was never a broad enough constituency to win cultural control over the US. (It's analogous to the situation in Pakistan, where the religious fundamentalists never win a large market share in open elections.) People forget that in the Deep South the Southern Baptists are the largest single religious bloc, but that in 34 states (!) Roman Catholics are the single largest religious bloc. Fundamentalists bent on political victories for 'Christians' may discover (unpleasantly) tha their power has slipped into the hands of the Roman Catholic hierarchy -- which has a different agenda than the evangelical Protestant one!
Posted by: Tom B | November 14, 2007 1:43 PM
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If Guiliani and Clinton win the party nominations, I sure look forward to the first debate. Hillary can use that occasion to jam every idiotic Robertson utterance, from assassinating Chavez to God punishing Dover PA, into Rudi's smug face. Hopefully Robertson will become for Guiliani what Willie Horton was for Michael Dukakis.
Posted by: maggots | November 14, 2007 1:00 PM
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'It seems to conflict with their wanting to make war against other folks, the death penalty, and other worthwhile exceptions to what Jesus would probably go along with, because "he never realized what things would be like by now".'
Wait a minute. I thought that Jesus (and God) were one and the same. And that God is all-knowing and all-seeing. So...are they refuting their Savior?
Posted by: Anonymous | November 14, 2007 12:54 PM
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Anyone read the Treaty of Tripoli (1797) recently? Particularly Article 11.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 14, 2007 12:51 PM
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To all of you on the Christian Right who consider themselves such loyal patriots, I would like to quote George Bernard Shaw who said "Patriotism is the concept that the country you live in is the greatest in the world merely because you were born there". While some are considering Europe, I am considering Canada. There can never be true freedom of religion in the USA when you have officers at the military academies calling Jews Christ killers. When a church in North Carolina ousts anyone who votes for a Democrat. This is not what the founding fathers had in mind.
Posted by: KRC | November 14, 2007 12:45 PM
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The Christian folks should insist that no one should call himself a member of the Christian political force unless he agrees that:
A plain, but prominent sign should be placed in every local, state and federal courtroom, legislative and executive office which reads:
"DO ONLY AS JESUS WOULD DO!"
I have asked many religious folks if they would agree to this. I have yet to receive an approval, without certain conditions. It seems to conflict with their wanting to make war against other folks, the death penalty, and other worthwhile exceptions to what Jesus would probably go along with, because "he never realized what things would be like by now".
Posted by: Ralph | November 14, 2007 12:44 PM
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I don't at all imagine that Europe is any kind of Utopia, I don't believe there is such a thing anywhere ... I wouldn't even recognize it if I saw it.
My father was a lifer in the Air Force, I spent about half my childhood on or near air force bases in France, England, Germany, and Turkey. So living and working in Europe is not going to be so strange to me.
Two of my great-great grandfathers died in the civil war (on opposite sides), from then until the Korean "Conflict" I have had ancestors fighting in every war my country has been in. I served 4 years in the air force myself.
I have as much right as any other citizen in this country to bemoan the state to which we have fallen. And my family has paid the price in blood ... for what? So the christians can destroy our constitution?
My ancestors came here in hopes of a better and freer life, I'll be leaving for the same reason. it makes me very sad to think the religious fanatics in my country are destroying it with the willing cooperation of the rank and file christians.
I don't want freedom of religion, I want freedom from it!
Posted by: K | November 14, 2007 11:04 AM
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"Devalued voters"??
If we have to have a label, how about "intelligent human beings" instead? It seems to have a bit more descriptive power than "devalued voters" does.
Posted by: TJ | November 14, 2007 8:20 AM
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K - good luck. I left three years ago for the same reasons. My conscience is a lot calmer knowing I don't work to pay taxes to support a Christian extremist theocracy. If America elects another Christofacist like Romney or Giuliani, I too will never return. The America I loved and volunteered to die for is now a hateful, judgmental, dark place with warmongering demagogues parading with a flag in one hand and the cross of Jesus in the other. They have hijacked two very beautiful and good things for their own greed, power and control.
Reasonable - who cares what you think. When someone calls your parrot "love it or leave it" bluff, you get a little jealous don't you? Did you volunteer to serve in America's military? If you didn't, why don't you just shut up in judging others who may have?
Posted by: Roy, Chiapas Mexico | November 14, 2007 8:09 AM
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I'm sure Jesus would be real proud of America's "Christian" leaders: war, torture, Blackwater and Haliburton corruption and killing, environmental damage to benefit big business. Nice job Bushie.
Posted by: Roy, Chiapas Mexico | November 14, 2007 7:56 AM
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K:
As an european atheist I could tell you western Europe is very far from an Utopia. However I can assure you that religious issues are not an issue in most european elections like it seems to be on the US (with the possible exception of Poland and Ireland). In most european countries the polititians are atheist, agnostic or lightly religious - it simply is not an issue.
One other positive issue, in my opinion, is the universal Health care that is present through out europe and is missing in the US as i´ve seen when I worked in Texas. But if you have health insurance in the US I believe you would be, in general, better served.
Europe as you will find has many defects if you compare it with the US, one of the most important its imperfect representation of the common ballot provider.
Politics is abject on both sides, believe me.
One very positive aspect is the absolute gun control that most of the time keeps violent crime from reaching toxic levels like in some big cities in the US - I was really astonished by the love of guns that most people in Texas seemed to have, because in my country only police and the army can carry them.
Posted by: skita | November 14, 2007 7:06 AM
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Would that it was so! However, no matter who gets selected by the GOP, the religious right will vote for whomever no matter if they stand on the street cornor and claim gays can marry! The best hope is that some will stick with principal and not make the effort to vote the label!
And if Hillary is the candidate of the Dems, the religious right will become rabid and fight through fire and storm to oppose her!
Posted by: chaotician | November 14, 2007 1:42 AM
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It seems to me that the shift of the southern christian block from the old-school southern democrats to the current evangelical republicans has hit its political crescendo - for the time being.
Nevertheless, the credulous are never educated by dissolutionment. Instead, they withdraw from the world and recommit themselves to their superstitions, which for a time are felt more purely since they are nurtured in a greater vacuum.
Unfortunately, high on their new fix of delusion, they will eventually venture back into the world in an effort to remake it in the image of their imagined religious utopia, and there will surely be some astute politico waiting to steer them to the voting booth. It simply remains to be seen what party will make the score, and what kind of pandering will be used as bait.
I've come to believe that, although everyone seeks understanding in this world, there are two distinct types of people: those that seek natural explanations for the events of their lives, and those that seek teleogical reasons. People who seek natural reasons examine nature for signs of order and have been generously rewarded by the vast explanatory power (i.e. science) that has been found. People who seek teleological reasons find no solace in nature, so have to imagine a large realm of existence that contains the elements necessary to conclude that everything that happens in nature happens for the good of whoever it happens to, and that ultimately, whether by heaven and hell, reincarnation, or some other means, the scales of justice balance out despite all evidence to the contrary.
I'm not sure if Jaques would disagree, but I think there is almost no movement from one population to another. The movement from "natural" to "teleological" sometimes occurs when people are subject to so much hardship that they hit bottom and break emotionally. They revert to a form of infantilism where their mommy/daddy is with them always, keeping them safe. Movement in the other direction seems more rare. When it occurs it seems to be the result of a critical mass of cognative dissonance, and is most prevalent during adolescence (the age of reason). But once someone gets to voting age I think it's pretty much over.
Posted by: Chris Everett | November 13, 2007 10:50 PM
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Malikmitch - Many social conservatives are racist, of course, and if the right to an abortion were turned over to the states poor women, who are disproportionately black and Hispanic, would have the most difficulty obtaining one if they lived in a state that didn't permit it.
Posted by: James | November 13, 2007 8:33 PM
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I used to think perhaps as Mr. Belinerblau implies that Republicans are on the side of Christians. However, I have come to the conclusion that neither party represents the needs and interests of Christians. The reason is because as human institutions they are fundementally flawed. Neither party is more noble or superior. Both sides of the political spectrum represent ugly facets of human behavior.
As I follower of Christ I have come to find great comfort and strength in the fact that Christ did not come to establish an earthly kingdom. In fact the early Christians faced great persecution at the hand of the Romans. Yet they were admonished regardless to give to Ceaser what is Caeser's and to respect their authorities. Fellow Christians, we are just waiting it out. For to live is Christ and to die is gain. The Savior has already come and established a spiritual kingdom. We will never find the answers in acidic sound bytes and rhetoric. May we strive each day to grow closer to resemble Jesus in our actions, word and thought and by doing so be that city shining on a hill so that all may see.
Praise God for His unfailing love, grace and mercy.
Posted by: JC | November 13, 2007 8:12 PM
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K,
FYI, I am a liberal intellectual east-coast atheist, but I have been a fan of Arnold for a long time. He's a California hippie at heart.
Posted by: Chris Everett | November 13, 2007 8:00 PM
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Yes, the dumbstruck fools will rise up again and vote for the first Christian storm trooper who wraps himself in the flag, has shiny jackboots and vows to rid the earth of heathens who believe gays, abortion and all them there other sins are just plain bad. Again, those that think they can "create value" by mixing religion and politics will reap the wildwind of political extremism and will be damned by the population at large. There is virtually no difference between these people and the Taliban that Bush is trying to kill in Afghanistan.
Posted by: Claude M | November 13, 2007 7:02 PM
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great comment!!!
Posted by: rickdaddy | November 13, 2007 6:58 PM
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The schizoid Republicanite 'coalition' has always been an unsustainable house of cards. It's a witches brew of Fascists, racists, misogynists, crazies and craziers.
You've got your GOP bosses, the Wall St crowd and heirs to the original attempted Fascist coup in 1933 (the Business Plot - look it up), attempting to manipulate and control various narrow issue groups dedicated to their own fanatacism.
You've got your religio-crazies attempting to 'restore' America to its fantasy theocratic roots. Ever willing to be duped and humbugged, many are coming to the realization that they have just been useful tools for the rich.
You've got your Free Market idealogues, children of the 'greed is good' philosophy espoused by the likes of Ayn Rand and Saint Reagan. Which, BTW, is the antithesis of anything resembling Christianity. And in case you're wondering, the Wall St crowd are primarily monopolists, not FMers.
You've got your generic 'I hate everyone not like me' groups. Anti-black, anti-immigrant, anti-woman, anti-gay - anti-human if taken to its logical conclusions. BTW, while many Southerners fall into this crowd it is most definitely not an exclusively Southern thing.
You've got your gun nuts. This is where the Republicanites really stepped in it. There's 260 million firearms in this country and at least half of them are in the hands of patriots who believe the Costitution and the Bill of Rights actually meant what they said. We're just one more stolen election away from a very bad scene, indeed.
There are other fanatical allied groups too numerous to mention, so I won't bother.
Suffice it to say, that at the end of the day, when you lie down with fanatics, they will eventually turn on you as nothing ever truly satisfies them. That's the nature of fanatacism, innit?
As dim as Americans are generally, they are not entirely stupid, and do sometimes learn, however slowly. Which is very bad news for the Republicanites but very good news for actual working Americans (90% of us), even if they don't know it yet.
Payback is Hell and I'm looking forward to it.
Sign me,
Armed to the teeth and ready to rumble
Posted by: numi | November 13, 2007 6:28 PM
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The schizoid Republicanite 'coalition' has always been an unsustainable house of cards. It's a witches brew of Fascists, racists, misogynists, crazies and craziers.
You've got your GOP bosses, the Wall St crowd and heirs to the original attempted Fascist coup in 1933 (the Business Plot - look it up), attempting to manipulate and control various narrow issue groups dedicated to their own fanatacism.
You've got your religio-crazies attempting to 'restore' America to its fantasy theocratic roots. Ever willing to be duped and humbugged, many are coming to the realization that they have just been useful tools for the rich.
You've got your Free Market idealogues, children of the 'greed is good' philosophy espoused by the likes of Ayn Rand and Saint Reagan. Which, BTW, is the antithesis of anything resembling Christianity. And in case you're wondering, the Wall St crowd are primarily monopolists, not FMers.
You've got your generic 'I hate everyone not like me' groups. Anti-black, anti-immigrant, anti-woman, anti-gay - anti-human if taken to its logical conclusions. BTW, while many Southerners fall into this crowd it is most definitely not an exclusively Southern thing.
You've got your gun nuts. This is where the Republicanites really stepped in it. There's 260 million firearms in this country and at least half of them are in the hands of patriots who believe the Costitution and the Bill of Rights actually meant what they said. We're just one more stolen election away from a very bad scene, indeed.
There are other fanatical allied groups too numerous to mention, so I won't bother. Suffice it to say, that at the end of the day, when you lie down with fanatics, they will eventually turn on you as nothing ever truly satisfies them. That's the nature of fanatacism, innit?
As dim as Americans are generally, they are not entirely stupid, and do sometimes learn, however slowly. Which is very bad news for the Republicanites but very good news for actual working class Americans (90% of us), even if they don't know it yet.
Payback is Hell and I'm looking forward to it, armed to the teeth.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 13, 2007 6:25 PM
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Malikmitch:
James has a good point, you have to get out of dogmatic thinking to understand it. The abortion RATE is higher in the black community (the data is widely available, should be on that HHS website) and the pregnancy RATE is higher in the black community. Also, the birth RATE is higher today regardless of the aforementioned higher abortion rate (data widely available via government sources...i'm too lazy to re-find them but I have in the recent past). So the point is that christian conservatives are racist and will be dismayed at the increase in black births and thus change their policy toward abortion.
I dont know that this would actually happen, but its an interesting hypothesis nonetheless.
Posted by: rickdaddy | November 13, 2007 6:19 PM
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I enjoyed this piece on the state of the voting populace that is at odds with the current GOP candidates. The value voters do seem to be self-destructing from the core outwards. I think that the movement for them to be more attuned to health care, the environment,the economy, and matters such as this their worldview will change to emcompass more than just a few issues. Abortion, gay marriage and intermingling of religion in government seemed to be the call to arms in the prvious elections but I am glad that more and more these other issues are becoming just as important.
James: Why would you say such a racially charged comment such as that about African-Americans. Most African-American families I know are relativley small (1-2 children). If I misunderstood your comment then I apologize, but if I have not please provide some statistics which bear out what you have stated in your post. That is just like saying that black people make up the majority of people on welfare. Here is a link to show you the converse is the reality. http://www.hhs.gov/
Posted by: malikmitch | November 13, 2007 6:02 PM
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Mr. Jacques Berlinerblau
Thank you again for another informative and educational essay. Faith driven politics as you wrote in your essay here has parallels in my country of origin and country of adoption.
You stated: "Whoever wins the GOP’s nomination will be hurt by the devalueds. Giuliani, with his new and unlikely chum Pat Robertson, stands to suffer the most."
You have focussed on domestic issues. If you had factored in foreign policy, you would have enlightened readers on the Giuliani and Robertson "alliance" and made it understandable. Does Israel/Palestine conflict and other Middle East conflicts rings a bell?
Yes, politics made strange bedfellows.
Thank you and best regards
"J"
Posted by: Jihadist | November 13, 2007 5:19 PM
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The disconnect between 'values voters' (code for Christian conservatives) and actual biblical values of compassion and tolerance is quite stark.
The values voters who support George Bush and company also - tacitly or otherwise - support the use of torture. They also supported the invasion and occupation of a country that had not attacked us and posed no imminent threat, causing the deaths of tens of thousands.
Glad I'm an atheist. If I were a Christian, there wouldn't be enough Ambien in the world to help me sleep at night.
Posted by: Jim Carlson | November 13, 2007 5:05 PM
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I agree with K's sentiments. It can be scary being a non-believer (or a gay person) in this country and its easy to be cynical. We tend to see Western Europe as a kind of enlightened utopia. I have only been to Ireland, and it certainly wasnt that (I assume thats because of the Catholicism).
Posted by: Rickdaddy | November 13, 2007 1:49 PM
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interesting comment James. Good logic. By the same logic I assume that religous conservatives would support parental licensure -- because it would reduce the number of minority babies being born.
I must add that this doesnt take away from the intellectual, pragmatic merits of the argument. If interested in Parental Licensure, check out
David Lykken's piece on it at: http://cogprints.org/768/0/178.pdf
Posted by: rickdaddy | November 13, 2007 1:41 PM
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I find it significant that even the older generation of social conservatives now claim they're only trying to protect traditional marriage when not so many years ago they didn't hesitate to express the view that gay people are dispicable perverts, an abomination, the most loathesome creatures imaginable who must be combatted at every turn if all that's good and holy on earth is not to be destroyed by them. If you raise this kind of alarm against a foe and a generation later they're still there and the sky hasn't fallen, don't be surprised if your young would-be disciples begin to shrug their shoulders and move on. They've still got one other leg to stand on - abortion. I, for one, would like to see that kicked out from under them by the overturning of Roe, which would soon be followed, I predict, by a sudden flagging of concern for the fetus in red America as an increase in family size becomes evident among minorities, African-Americans in particular.
Posted by: James | November 13, 2007 12:52 PM
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Jaques,
I hope you are right. I see how you are optimistic that young evangelicals are able to think outside the box given to them by their evangelical elders. I'm not so sure of that. On a side note, I wish evangelicals studied human history, it would make them such better people.
Also, I hope Rudy Giuliani's young moderate, secular fans will desert him in the general election for a democrat because of his non-stop pandering to the religous right. Most of his decidedly atheist/non-believing fans such as myself have already deserted him (for Obama). How could you not after seeing him beat up on the little guy over and over again to pander to the religous right and Fox News Conservatives?
I want a president who can stand up for gay rights, compassion towards illegals, and stand up against the religous right. Rudy Giuliani on paper may seem to understand these values, but over the past several months he has sold his soul (if he had one) to fearful, hateful conservatives, although the press keeps declaring that he is "pro gay rights" and "pro choice". When was the last time he included gay rights issues in a stump speech? Conservatives want hate, not compassion. Rudy cant possibly get the nomination without hate.
Posted by: rickdaddy | November 13, 2007 10:30 AM
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I held my nose and voted for Reagan twice during the 80's - despite Jerry Falwell, but when the republican party sold what was left of its soul to Pat Robertson in 1988 I stopped voting for republicans absolutely - well, I voted for Arnold Schwarzenegger in California, but it's not the same thing.
Bush has been the worst president I could have imagined, and not just for his incompetence and lust for power. The Bushies have taken MY tax money and spent it on THEIR religion! This crap called faith-based initiatives they have forced upon us all has let me know without a doubt that the republicans no longer consider me an American citizen.
The social conservatives obviously consider me to be a man with no values as well.
As I've been witnessing the continued republican pandering to the neo-fascist values voters block it occurs to me they are the most fundamentally dangerous enemy our country has ever faced.
I'm leaving for Europe on a software-development business venture next year, for a couple of years perhaps.
If I see the republicans win again this coming election, I doubt I'll bother to return. I'll be taking my high-tech skills and experience out of the country for good, for my birthplace will have become a dark and forbidding land which has abandoned me, not the other way around.
The dominionists are destroying America, and you believers are too stupid and blind to realize it.
Posted by: K | November 13, 2007 9:51 AM
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Bush and his known baggage supported by any "Christian" simply confirms the prophecy that the "visible church" would fall into apostasy, as he is so clearly the latest front in the Anti-Christ's struggle against Truth and Justice in the world.
America's Whig Founders were correct: History unfolds as a conflict between Rome, and everyone else.
It is no coincidence that the Bush Crime Family has fronted for the Vatican-banker, BIG OIL-creating, through unredressed murder and arson, Rockefellers for four generations. Filling out the frequency chart of the regression analysis confirming Our Prophet from Monticello's wisdom: Prescott Bush helped create the Holocaust: The money behind the author of "I Paid Hitler," as conduit from Rome's Fifth Column in America; Poppy, and his pals in the Knight of Malta-led Roman Catholic CIA, popped John and Martin to keep us in Rome's Vietnam; and James Guckert's best-client-ever committed 9-11 for oil, heroin, the Saudis, and a corrupt, godless faction of our equally-infected sister, the State of Israel.
The lesson of History is clear to believing Americans: G-d wants Truth and Righteousness. Lying perverts need not apply...Rudy? Mitt? John? Hillary? Got that?
Posted by: Will Jones | November 13, 2007 9:43 AM
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"Bush's faith based initiatives" ? Should not the words "no money needed" be in there someplace?
His use of the word "faith" insults all Americans.
Posted by: DC12 | November 13, 2007 9:16 AM
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This column is pathetically flippant.
Thompson won the Right-to-Life endorsement, by the way.