Michael,

Could you explain to me how Bush stole the last election? Perhaps you're using the word "stole" to mean "Kerry was such a coward that he would only state his beliefs and/or agenda after he found out which way the wind was blowing." If that's the case, I agree with you.

Also, you can characterize the 2000 election any which way you like, but the fact of the matter is that Al Gore couldn't win his own state. What does that say when your friends and neighbors in your home state think you're a worthless pile of cow dung?

As an atheist, I am surprised to observe that Americans are so intolerant of other religious beliefs. What is the difference between us and the Muslims.Does Jeusus Crist really teach us to be like that? Or is it just the churches want to be so self righteous and politically dominating? Have the Christians forgetton why they have come to this country on the Mayflower ship? No wonder Chairman Mao Tse-Dong wanted to get rid of all the religious groups from China, Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Buddhist, etc. Maybe there is good reason for that.After all, almost 90% of the wars in the western history were caused by religious conflicts. Have we leaned anything? Let us treat the religious belief as a private matter and all live in peace. Maybe God really wants that!

As an atheist, I am surprised to observe that Americans are so intolerant of other religious beliefs. What is the difference between us and the Muslims.Does Jeusus Crist really teach us to be like that? Or is it just the churches want to be so self righteous and politically dominating? Have the Christians forgetton why they have come to this country on the Mayflower ship? No wonder Chairman Mao Tse-Dong wanted to get rid of all the religious groups from China, Christians,Catholics,Muslims,Buddhist, etc. Maybe there is good reason for that.After all, almost 90% of the wars in the western history were caused by religious conflicts. Have we leaned anything? Let us treat the religious belief as a private matter and all live in peace. Maybe God really wants that!

The sad thing about all of this is that Bush didn't win either election, the republicans cheated their way into the white house. It doesn't matter what the "Christian" right does, the republican party is doomed for quite a long time, by this administrations behavior.

"Let us imagine that the Democrats in 2008 galvanize their base of Mainline Protestants, Latino Catholics, and Jews (a development observed in the 2006 mid-term elections). Let us imagine that they improve upon Kerry’s astonishing failures among non-Latino Catholics. If they can pull this off--and nothing suggests that this is a daunting task..."

The Democrats have always taken black voters for granted and there is no reason to believe they will not also take Latino voters for granted. It just never pays to underestimate the Democrats' ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They have become as arrogant as the GOP in failing to heed the will of the people.

"Let us imagine that the Democrats in 2008 galvanize their base of Mainline Protestants, Latino Catholics, and Jews (a development observed in the 2006 mid-term elections). Let us imagine that they improve upon Kerry’s astonishing failures among non-Latino Catholics. If they can pull this off--and nothing suggests that this is a daunting task..."

The Democrats have always taken black voters for granted and there is no reason to believe they would not also take Latino voters for granted. It just never pays to underestimate the Democrats' ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They have become as arrogant as the GOP in failing to heed the will of the people.

Not happy days these are for J.D.
He hasn't gotten and will not get his
opportunity for a new round of trials
at Salem. i.e. - the burning of anyone
and everyone in America that
he and his minions do not approve of.
Expect the founding of a New Confederacy, folks; somewhere near Stumphole, Oklahoma.

In April 1967, I listened as the Hoover Tower faculty hounded Martin Luther King in Memorial Hall on the Stanford campus. I listened with rapture as Rev King spoke out against the immorality of the Vietnam war and the criminality of spending money on that violence when we had so many needs here at home.

Dobson is the antithesis of King. His followers are the epitomy of the Anti-Christ.

Where have all the great religious leaders gone? How have we allowed ourselves to become war criminals in Iraq? Where has all the outrage gone? It is just too bad that we did not have a draft in 2002 when this madness started. There may be no atheists in foxholes; but there are surely no true Christains who would stand for what we have done to the people of Iraq in the name of those who say they are for "saving babies" in the USA.

I think that Dobson is really talking about the early stages of a new party. The repubs worked long and hard to convince the evangelicals to support them. They started small and worked and worked. Now Dobson is starting to do the same thing. They are looking down the road and saying 'We will build our own party and the Repubs be damned'.

"K" speaks for me, thanks for not mincing words.

Sooner we rid ourselves of the American Taliban (AT) of Dobson, Robertson, Haggard, the late Jerry Falwell, Liberty U grads in the DOJ, Rove, et al, the BETTER off will be ALL Americans. The AT zealots are about money and power; and then using it to force their version of a belief system on all of us.

Remember the words of Sinclair Lewis: "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." With the Bush crowd, we're as close to that as I ever want to get, and as close as we've ever been. Time to vote the GOP out and teach them a lesson they'll never forget.

All religion is myth.
All moral standards are relative, and of human invention.
No one ever has any right to dictate moral decisions to anyone else.
Human nature will be the downfall of humanity.

Discuss.

You know how all those sheeple were saying they were happy "God was in the Whitehouse" after GW Bush got elected?

Wouldn't it be great if Jesus's teachings (the Prince of Peace and messenger of God's love) turned up in the philosophy of these blow-hards and not just on their iconography?

We could say Christ was in Christianity.

As it is, I wish these folks that follow the likes of Dobson (and Jim Jones) would wake up and make well-informed choices on policy, become real wonks. Then they would not only have decent politicians on their side of the aisle, but their churches would be wholesome places to be again.

Donson and the Fundimentalist crowd are truly scary people who have done a lot of harm. What people are ignoring right now that that Hillary Clinton and the collection of feminists, corporations, and security moms pushing her are the polar opposite of these people. Donson and company only had peripheral influence on the Bush Whitehouse, but the Hillary crowd would be completely unfettered in their remaking society. You can be certain that every extra-constitutional footstep Bush took will be emulated by a Clinton presidency...and taken one step further. What will it be? An executive order confiscating firearms? A banning of Fundimentalist preaching (her followers have already labeled sermons calling homosexuality a sin a form of hate speech)? An order banning certain kinds of protests, like those outside feminist meetings? Assembling a watch list of people who oppose free trade (remember, she and Bill made their fortune from promoting outsourcing and supplying H1-B guest workers). Who knows, but her recent stunt of calling someone asking uncomfortable questions "a plant", her belief in conspiracies, her past actions to punish anyone who disagrees with her using any means available ought to give one thought. It may be temporarily fun to wreck Dobson and the churches that support him and his views; it may sound like a great idea to destroy the NRA and punish the "gun nuts", but the long term consequences will be of a country even more divided than now, one that will tear itself apart. It may be inevitable, but we simply cannot survive a Clinton presidency nor any presidency that resembles what she and Bush and Guliani and Thompson and Romney and Richardson or any of the other insiders would bring. We need a moderate, someone who can heal this nation and bring us together as a people, not someone who would act out the revenge for some group or other.

James Dobson, a homophobic, bigoted, christian creep speaks for his family, a few friends, and several hundred thousand like minded christian morons. He and his ilk are in the last days of their political power. Non-white America is approaching and the far-right, pure-white, religious con-men like Mr. Dobson and his evil brothers-in-Christ are about to enter the kingdom of political HELL.

I LOVE what George Will had to say on ABC sunday program to the christian conservative cabal... "Grow UP" Who does Dobson Inc. think they are? They're a RELIGIOUS group and as we all know ... there is a 'seperation of churh and state"

Let them run a third party. Do they think Sam Brownback has a chance? They might as well marginalize themselves by pulling their votes out.

It will let mainstream Republicans return to their roots instead of pandering to the likes of those who've brought us Larry Craig.

As the saying goes, "From your mouth to God's ear!"

Dobson would perform his greatest service to America if he were to go forward with his plans. How much better off we would be if the hate-filled mutants who hold an image of Jesus that has gone so terribly wrong, could all climb aboard an arc and leave the rest of us on shore to approach the world more rationally. If McCain appeals to this ship of fools, it only confirms that when he slithered across the stage at the 2004 Convention to lick Bush's feet, John left his soul behind.

Go Dobson Go! As one of the many millions of godless democrats I can only "pray" (ha ha) that Gulliani gets the nomination, and those crazy right wing cultists put forth their own candidate. This will ensure a democratic victory, which is just what the country needs. Bush has raped the middle class, and murdered her children, with the a needless war. Everybody knows under the republicans the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I know it's a cliche, but it's true. So the same group who oppose democrats in general and Hillary in particular, will benefit from a democratic regime. They are just to stupid to realize it.

Here's a thought for the Focus on the Family crowd....why don't you quit trying to run everybody else's lives and work on something useful like feeding the needy?

Here's a thought for the Focus on the Family crowd....why don't you quit trying to run everybody else's lives and work on something useful like feeding the needy?

Dobson is an empty suit.
A Haunt of horrible times from our own Cival War.

His ilk remind me of the Civil War Churches and evangelized for the South directly helping the South recruit Soldiers.

Their Preachings were carefully constructed to confuse the Concept the US Constitution. Just like the neocons are doing today.

Twist of the meaning of our Constitution. For the South and Dobson "All Men were Created equal." Except for Slaves, Black and of course women were already in their place.

This subtle Southern prejudice is practiced everyday by Dobson. Yet enough people keep buying into it.

Dobson is an empty suit.
A Haunt of horrible times from our own Cival War.

His ilk remind me of the Civil War Churches and evangelized for the South directly helping the South recruit Soldiers.

Their Preachings were carefully constructed to confuse the Concept the US Constitution. Just like the neocons are doing today.

Twist of the meaning of our Constitution. For the South and Dobson "All Men were Created equal." Except for Slaves, Black and of course women were already in their place.

This subtle Southern prejudice is practiced everyday by Dobson. Yet enough people keep buying into it.

If there is a "GOP Apocalypse" it will mean the prayers of millions will have been for nought. That just can't be.

Stop using my name for your conservative political agenda. I was a hippie who deplored the Philistines. I deplore FOTF. Tony Perkins and "Dr." Dobson are fanatics attempting to create a theocratic society. They can only reign in hell.

Stop using my name for you conservative political agenda. I was a hippie who deplored the Philistines. I deplore FOTF. Tony Perkins and "Dr." Dobson are fanatics attempting to create a theocratic society. They can only reign in hell.

James Dobson and the rest of the Christian Coalition are going to fade into oblivion once again. The American public is fed up with the holier-than-thou right wing Republicans like Larry Craig and Newt Gingrich who tsk-tsk-tsk about Bill Clinton, but are either cheating on their own wives or having anonymous public restroom sex with other men. Fake issues like gay marriage and Terri Schiavo are not going to play in 2008. After 8 yrs of Bush and Cheney, people are starving for intellectual, competent, and reasonable leaders who actually give a damn about the future of this country.

You forgot another, and more likely option:

Dobson succeeds in getting the Republican nominees to further compromise and abase themselves before the Religious Reich. They win the nomination, but like in 1992, the general public is so disgusted and fed up with theocracy, that combined with anger over Iraq and general Bush fatigue, the Republicans lose 15 more House seats, 8 Senate seats and Hillary wins over 350 electoral vote.

The question for the GOP is: how do we placate the Right with losing the nation? Maybe the answer is: we tell them where they can stick it.

I think the best thing that the GOP could do is drop-kick Dobson and his ilk out of the tent. Sure, they'd lose support in the short run, but they'd gain integrity and more long-lasting support in the long term.

Dobson and his colleagues are not bluffing. At a prayer breakfast with White House Spiritual Leader Pastor Ted Haggard, Dobson choked on sausage while condemning Spongebob to torture, sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, Iron Maiden's latest album, and all-American electric shocks to the genitals.

Mr Mark,

How is this for spin? According to 2005 data concerning federal minimum wage earners:

1) Only 1 in 5 workers live in a family with earnings below the poverty line.

2) 60% work part time with an average household income above $40,000.

3) More than 50% are under the age of 25 and more than 25% are between the ages of 16 and 19.

4) 60% of federal minimum wage earners work in restaurant and bars and earn tips in addition to their wages.

5) 29 states, accounting for 70% of the nation's workforce, have set minimum wages above the federal minimum.

Thank you for your support.

Tha "sanctity of human life", huh? Unless of course you're a godless towelhead. What about unborn muslims-do they count? Doubt it. These idiots now own the Republican Party and have a stangehold on the entire electorate. These things come in cycles and the current group has about a half a tank left. What do you suppose would happen if a courageous, small government, fiscally responsible Republican went public with his distaste for Dobson? It's worth a shot.

Republicans are regligious in a godless sort of way.

Right on - the Bush II presidency seems to have been won due to an inordinately high voter turnout specifically by the Evangelical right, for Bush, the candidate who was firm on 'security' and on 'conservative values'. In the past, rather than having switched to a Democrat, US evangelicals have become disinterested in politics as an 'unholy dirty business' and have decided to NOT bother to vote; a scenario which is even more likely to repeat itself in 2008.

None of the current Republican candidates are a welcome fit for the Christian right; most even have, to quote Rove, 'clear negatives'. Disillusionment and 'withdrawal from the world' is the most likely pendulum reaction in 2008 and this, along with the generally much stronger candidates on the Democrat side, are likely to take the US presidency away from the GOP.

I think Dobson is greatly overating his own ability to control the evangelical vote. But then again, he does have the death squad Blackwater Prince's money to back up his campaign. Dobson got evenagelicals to vote for Bush twice and now they look more like the block who promoted the anti-christ to power than a push for morality. If "what you do for the least of these" applies to any of the evangelicals consciences, they would be better to spend November of 2008 in sack cloth and ashes than at the voting booth.

Eisenhower got it right when he said that "if anyone ever tampers with Social security, and they are mostly texas oil millionairs, their party will never be heard from again".
what a great prophet he was !

With all due respect to Mr. Dobson (which is to say, none)... it's embarassing to see how they are now flexing their muscles and how the rest of the country should apparently shudder at the thought of Evangelicals taking their votes to a third party.

Hey Dobson, this is your president. You've had 8 years, and THIS is what you and the extreme Christian vote got us. Why don't you instead encourage your congregation to enlist in the military and finish the wars we are in because of this administration. When you all get back from seeing the real world, you can tackle abortion...

Enough-have any of you read the Constitution lately? There is a very good reason our founding fathers chose to keep religion out of politics. This is a Christian country? Where does it say that? As was so well pointed out in another article, that would mean that Jesus could not have been President.

Let's start voting for people who can steer this country back to greatness. Not what we now havex-corporate welfare.

We can thank the "once-mighty White Evangelicals" for supporting the Evangelical-in-Chief who has presided over the worst presidency in U.S. history.

So I, for one, won't shed a single tear when this country returns to its senses and stops being run by a bunch of corrupt, inept Bible thumpers.

The Dems and the GOP can ignore the evangelicals if they want, but the evangelicals are increasing their hold over the military in this country (google: "Weinstein, Air Force Academy" for a taste of what's currently happening and what's to come), and the military-industrial-congressional complex runs the show.

So whether GOP or Dem, anyone who really wants to succeed in politics will have to come, hat in hand, to those who present themselves as Christ's vicars here on earth and they'll have to present their credentials.

If said supplicants and sycophants say they favor a final military conquest of Evil (which, currently, is the "Evil Empire" of radical Muslims, although it used to be the "Evil Empire" of the commies, and tomorrow, who knows?, it might be the "Evil Empire" of the agnostics, the liberals or the Jews), then the God-guided evangelical military-industrialists will bless their campaigns and anoint them and declare that Christ speaks through them.

The only thing sensible people in this country can do is load up on defense stocks and wait, eagerly, for Armageddon. For apparently it's part of Christ's plan that clever Americans should get rich when apostate Muslims die.

Gary A

"Maybe...just maybe.....Dobson and his crew believe that the consequences of losing political clout is nothing compared to not taking a stand against what they believe is morally wrong. The latter being killing unborn babies."

Those are called "fetuses," and Dobson is part of the same religious terrorist faction that "loves 'em until they're born." These people hate anything not white, rich and worshiping Jeeee-zus 24 hours a day.

They have no morality. What's even clearer is, they have no lives, but have found a way to power through the manipulation and use of fear inherent in unprovable religious myth. The hating god they portray doesn't exist any more than a pile of old diapers. Dobson is the worst type of religious fascist who imagines far more power for his "angels of terror" than actually exists.

Dobson the lunatic: like a mad dog, needs to be put down. ANYone that panders to this man has no business being a president. Look at our current religiously deluded Worst. President. Ever. Need I say more?

"Maybe...just maybe.....Dobson and his crew believe that the consequences of losing political clout is nothing compared to not taking a stand against what they believe is morally wrong. The latter being killing unborn babies."

Those are called "fetuses," and Dobson is part of the same religious terrorist faction that "loves 'em until they're born." These people hate anything not white, rich and worshiping Jeeee-zus 24 hours a day.

They have no morality. What's even clearer is, they have no lives, but have found a way to power through the manipulation and use of fear inherent in unprovable religious myth. The hating god they portray doesn't exist any more than a pile of old diapers. Dobson is the worst type of religious fascist who imagines far more power for his "angels of terror" than actually exists.

Dobson the lunatic: like a mad dog, needs to be put down. ANYone that panders to this man has not business being a president. Look at our current religiously deluded Worst. President. Ever.

"you should keep your blasphemous thoughts to yourself" sums up the lobotomized mentality of hateful old doddering Dobson and his lemmings. No free speech, no freedom of religion - just shut your mounth and blindly believe as we do. Cheney has the same mentality. Those against the war "embolden the enemy" during "the war on terror" These maniacs have hijacked America. It's time we take it back from them before our grand-children recite this to the wall in school daily:

I pledge allegiance to the to the Homeland of the Christian States of America and to the theocracy for which it stands, one nation obeying only our true Christian God, with no tolerance and acceptance for anyone different. Amen.

I'm a former deacon in a SBC church, and I left because I couldn't stand it anymore. Dobson and other "leaders" in the Christian conservative movement spend all their time talking to each other and never to anybody else. The normal person who sits in the pew has to go out into the world to live and work among all types of people, and somehow make it work. This is what Jesus did, not spending his time in some ivory tower disparaging anybody who disagreed with Him. Some folks seemed determined to turn self-righteouness into an artform.

Let's see the Republicans ran on Christian Family/Moral Values.
Bush has lied from day one and continues to lie.
Cheney has been working with deals on oil with Iran since 2005.
The Evangelist and Jewish Leaders worked together to embarrass the Iran President God made sure it didn't work.
The Evangelist and Jewish Leaders are working on illegally attacking Iran to fulfill the Bible's time of the end. Right now the Evangelist are fighting each other for money that was given by the White House. Seems the Church isn't working what God or Jesus taught but more like Satan's lessons.
GOP have given full support to Fingers Foley a child molester, Larry Craig a pervert and Senator Vitter who hires prostitutes and still does. Many crooks in the GOP and thieves who have stolen taxpayers money and the Iraq's money.
Justice Thomas out right lies about not getting a job when he graduated from college as he knew he was offered a job and excepted one when he was in his second year of college.
Senator Steven used Taxpayers money to rebuild his home. Gonzales lied under oath as well as ordering torture. All the appointees of the GOP lied under oath.

This is what Republicans call following Christian Values but it's not God's teachings it's Satan's.

Given that it is logically impossible to be both Republican and to follow the spirit of what Jesus asked of us, any evangelical who respects himself would break from this party *yesterday*. So yes, this is not only likely but inevitable.

Matthew, you are so sure that you have the ultimate truth, and so foolish to think that way.

I don't claim to have the ultimate truth, but I can tell you this: be careful about believing in things just because you want them to be true. The universe has a funny habit of sneeking up and smacking you in the face when you believe things just because you want them to be true.

And as far as keeping my opinions to myself, I have just as much right be heard as you do, regardless of your loony interpretation of our constitution.

You sound more like a Nazi than a christian to me.

Quoting the bible is just an old, CIRCULAR argument
based on old myths and rules that were handed down for tens of thousands of years ( most probably based on groups food/fear needs to survive.......and then add one slightly smarter cookie to "explain" their fears and make the cookie (priest, shaman, preacher. etc.) exempt from work) That kinda still works today, right ?

Jacques

Don't toy with me.

This is my fondest dream.

A reverse Rapture for the Republican Party.

Left behind!

First a great cleansing of our body politic and then irrelevancy and eventual extinction for those who have destroyed our nation.

From your lips to God's ears

Jacques

Don't toy with me.

This is my fondest dream.

A reverse Rapture for the Republican Party.

Left behind!

First a great cleansing of our body politic and then irrelevancy and eventual extinction for those who have destroyed our nation.

From your lips to God's ears

"If they do abandon the Republicans then they will surely induce a Blue-state rapture: the return of a Democrat to the White House in triumph and in glory and the relegation of the once-mighty White Evangelicals to the hellish oblivion of third-party politics."

According to Scripture, such a hellish existence lies in store only for the Republicans that don't convert to Democrats.

I think it's time for the evangelicals to call on Ralph Nader to be their savior from those fickle Republican can't-make-up-their-minds candidates. Welcome aboard Ralph!

I rolled my eyes in disbelief at Dobson's NYT op-ed piece. The words "values" and "Dobson" in the same sentence are a hilarious oxymoron. Ralph Reed recruited Dobson to aid convicted felon Jack Abramoff in his campaign to oppose an Indian tribe (Jena Band of Choctaws ) that was seeking to open a casino that might hurt the Coushatta tribe that Abramoff was representing. Dobson wrote to interior secretary Gail Norton opposing the Jena bid for a casino. http://www.worldmag.com/pdf/2002.pdf#page=15 Ralph Reed bragged about his success in recruiting Dobson to Abramoff. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A30274-2005Mar12?language=printer

Dobson also gave a blessing to Newt Gingrich earlier this year when he floated a trial balloon for his presidential campaign. Newt confessed that he was having an affair was a staffer while leading an impeachment campaign against Clinton for his affair with Lewinsky. That would be the same Newt who is now on his 3rd wife, and let the first Mrs. Gingrich learn that he was divorcing her while in a hospital being treated for cancer. He told an aide that he-- the speaker of the house-- could not be married to such an unattractive woman. You have to love those republican family value!!! Dobson-- the values test guy-- has no problem endorsing Newt despite his considerable baggage.

Of course, the notion of "republicans" and "family value" mentioned in the same sentence seems like a crude (and cruel) comedy sketch in light of recent events: Senator Larry Craig cruising for a hookup in an airport bathroom stall; Senator David Vitter confessing to using the services of a prostitute; Rep. Mark Foley hitting on young house male pages. After Newt stepped down as speaker in the aftermath of the 2000 election, in which republican lost seats for pursing impeachment against Clinton, Rep. Bob Livingston was chosen as Newt's successor-- until he resigned because he admitted to adultery. Livingston's successor in the House was David Vitter, who wrote an op-ed during Clinton's impeachment trial in the New Orleans Times Picayune calling for him to resign because he acted immorally. That was the man who seeing prostitutes in New Orleans (when he was a state senator) and in Washington when he was elected to the house and later the senate. Then there was Ted Haggard, the republican minister who was outed by a gay prostitute for having gay sex and doing crystal meth.
Oh yes: Republican Values!!!

At the dawn of time primitive humans, first in small bands, then in tribes and eventually in collective entities within defined bounderies, sought to explain the world in which they lived. They possessed the need to understand the wonderous phenomena of life, death, fertility, fire, water, the seasons and the inexplicable mystery of good and bad fortune. Lacking the as yet undiscovered factual information to satisfactorily explain their proximate world, let alone the boundless universe, they invented myths and found security in superstions. Their hunger for understanding faciliated the unrestrained power of humankind's imagination - larger than life gods and godesses with limitless supernatural powers sated that need and provided important answers. Those mythical creatures demanded fealty in return for favor, and set rules to satisfy their egoistic demands. The roots of religion were nurtured in the corrupt soil of faith over reason, and bore the poisened fruit of blind belief in the powers of the supernatural. The rules of imagined reality soon came to be enforced by tribal power, and then impressed on the malleable young to be forever perpetuated and defended in generations yet unborn. Conflicts in the beliefs of different tribes became sufficient reason to severly punish and even kill. Civilized people today acknowledge the pernicious evil of racism, yet benignly accept the primeval rot of religious tradition. After centuries of accumulated knowledge and the reality of scientific discovery based on logic and reason, primitive supernatural myths and superstions endure. The infliction of suffering and punitive death in response to apostasy to such superstitious belief plagues the planet today. It is wrong to elect leaders intelectually incapable of rejecting the primitive ideas of antideluvian minds. More so, it is a tragic error - fraught, as we have so recently seen, with terrible and unforseen consequences. The governance of a modern state requires the facile judgment of intellectually charged enlightened minds grounded in logic and reason, and possessed of insatiable curiosity for knowledge. Until we as a nation recognize that fundamental truth, the specious manipulation and pandering to superstition and myth in the name of religious ideology will perniciously and malignantly deny all of our citizens the rights and security the founding father's envisioned in their extraorinary and novel experiment in freedom. May enlightenment and truth, not superstition, bless America.

Matthew
Please read the Mayflower Compact. You will find that the Separatists (Pilgrims) recognized they could not survive without the Strangers (non-believers, like Stephen Hopkins) help and, after having lived in exile in Holland where there was a separation of church and state, agreed that the only solution was to form a secular government in the new colony. The Compact was signed and an election held before they stepped foot off the ship. While a Pilgrim won the election for Governor (because they held a slim majority), this should not be construed as this country being "founded based on Christianity" or "religous freedom." As a Mayflower descendant, I cringe every time I hear this. It is a misrepresentation of history. I suggest you read the book "Mayflower" and see just how "Chrisitan" these folks were, and how much they believed in religiuos freedom.

The Founding Fathers, i.e., Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Washington, Franklin, etc. were of various faiths, and they were not all Christians, as you imply. Note that the word God does not appear anywhere in the US Consitution. This is by design.

While you may need a book to tell you how to be humane, many do not. To suggest that they will all burn in Hell or called to account is your right, but consider that you may not be right either. As a human you are as fallible as the next, so what gives you the right to dictate how others behave? You cannot legislate morality, because no two individuals have the same belief in the meaning of the word. As Jefferson said, "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Ovid,
The Founding Fathers did recognize other faiths outside of Christianity. In developing the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom (the basis of the 2nd Amendment) Jefferson wrote "Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting 'Jesus Christ,' so that it would read 'A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

In the usual spiritual questing (fill in the blanks) I attended a fundamentalist, "spirit-filled," "Bible-believing church" for maybe a year and a half. It's a national, well-established denomination. As is typical, but you never hear about this from the national Christian political movers and shakers, most of the members believed that few attendees at the older, familiar American denominations (such as Methodists and sure as heck Catholics) were saved. If George Bush was just an ordinary citizen, these people would be cajoling him to join their church for the sake of his soul.

I write this from Salt Lake City. Don't even get me started on the particular brand of lunacy in power out here.

Perhaps, as Dobson's FOF runs off the rails as Ovid suggests, they will take Planned Parenthood and the likes of Moveon with them.

Jewish civilization...is that an oxymoron? The one thing the Jews have failed at over and over again is civilization. Their "good" books are nothing but a litany of civilization failures for themselves and certainly for their enemies! Kings is an endless list of failures; most Jewish triumphs are decimating other civilizations down to the last child, goat, and blade of grass! Recent history is just more of the same; what about Judism creates and endless bloodbath?

The "fundamentalist right" has finally realized how they have been used and that the mainline Repubs. never intended to deliver.