Comments (30)

Boy, how can a simple greeting lead to religious debate? Why not treat it as an opportunity to learn a bit more about another religion?

While I have a number of Hindu friends (and colleagues from work - Universities attract bvright people from a lot of cultures), and have been a guest at a Hindu wedding, one of the best sources I know on-line of introductory material for Americans is on the web site of my friend Prof. V.V. Raman, a retired physics professor in upstate New York. You might enjoy the "Indic themes" link on his web site,
http://www.rit.edu/~vvrsps/
(I did get his permission to post this address.)

Edward Ordman

Candide, pray tell:

How does blarney preclude atheism?

And just as many atheists practice similar rude behavior. Welcome to the human condition... :)

A basic moral precept of Christianity (as well as natural law) is to treat others the way you want to be treated. If more people on both sides of the religious divide took such ideas to heart, the world would be much better off.

I don't know about faith helping you to be civil. Jon Meacham the other day on IMUS remarked that someone wrote him: I am praying for you but I hope you go to hell!

To Candide --

I know not what other slings and arrows you have suffered, but on these boards, I try to keep as civil a tongue in my head as possible. I sometimes fail, but that's the human condition. My faith teaches me to try to do no less.

What is this sudden civility towards me? As an atheist and anti-christian I am accustomed to calumny, hatred, and strife.

I am convinced that most people who think they need religion are so desperate they will not listen to reason. With them only satire works. People fear one thing more than being outwitted, they fear being made fun of. If we can make Christians ashamed of their folly perhaps we can save them from the evils of faith.

To Candide --

Forgive me, but in my reply to you, I should have referred to Great Britain as a "nation of Christians" rather than a "Christian nation".

To Danny B. --

As a rational person and a Christian, I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, whatever the . Candide is a human being and as such he has a mind that can approach questions rationally (as his later post proves).

I won't try to convert Candide, but I will hope that he can come to understand that religion is not the bid bad bogeyman that s/he has built it up to be.

Candide --

First, thank you for your reasoned response.

You wrote, "Compare India to China, a very secular culture where the masses had superstitions but the elites preferred a philosophy, Confucianism, to religion. India has been mired in poverty, disunity and corruption while China has advanced from early times to high civilization."

You do bring up a valid point here, though one could dispute that China's current level of civilization given its appalling record on human rights. Even so, I would point out that much of India's division was as much caused by its political disunity (something exacerbated by the British during the 18th and 19th centuries) as its religious divisions (which the British also used quite effectively).

I'm not an expert on Chinese history, but if I recall correctly, the "secular culture" that you approve of also fell prey to a great deal of corruption and hidebound thinking. Indeed, the emperor who built the Great Wall also order the destruction of millions of ancient Chinese books, so it would seem that even "secular societies" are not exactly immune to such excesses.

It is interesting to note that India's current economic prosperity is due in no small part to its earlier colonization by Great Britain, a Christian nation. It will be interesting to see whether or not India can overcome its divisions (political and economic) to sustain itself.

If you mean me when you say "swine" (it's SWINE), please, please, I beg you, DON'T!

Perhaps I should not cast my pearls before swing.

Candide,

Let me be the first to give credit where it is due!

I was wrong, you are capable of a coherent debatable point, without hate language.

Wow!

Thank you, really!

Robert B,

Candide is incapable of a rational answer. In fact, he is incapable of little more than racial slurs, circular reasoning, and self-delusion regarding his intellect.

Look on, "The Other Side of "Free Exercise" of Religion", and "More Prejudice from the Elite Than From the Street" for more of his “pearls of wisdom”.

Good luck to you Robert, I admire your patience.

Danny B.

P.S. Candide…”pearls of wisdom” is a CLICHÉ.

India is the most religious nation in history. Historians have often remarked on this. Compare India to China, a very secular culture where the masses had superstitions but the elites preferred a philosophy, Confucianism, to religion. India has been mired in poverty, disunity and corruption while China has advanced from early times to high civilization.

Even India's current progress economically may not last owing to its primitive religious conflicts and divisions.

Candide,

True, my knowledge of Voltaire is fairly limited. What I do know, however, is that he was capable of rational debate with others, whereas you seem capable only of rage and personal insult. In that way, your statements are indeed far more mild, since you have so little to actually back them up...

I would be more than willing to engage in actual debate with you (as time permits, of course), if you would come to the table with more than your incessant rantings. Show a little of the reason that you purport to treasure and we can talk.

In hopes that you will answer rationally, I will begin with a question. In your first post here, you claimed that "Everything bad and loathsome about India comes from its religion(s)." Why do you think this?

Robert B.: You know nothing about Voltaire. He ended every letter he wrote with the phrase: Ecrasons l'infame! Which means, let us crush that infamous thing. Opinion differs about what that infamous thing was: perhaps Catholicism, perhaps Christianity in general; perhaps all so-called revealed religion. My statements are mild compared to his.

To Candide --

You claim to respect reason, and yet your tirades against people of faith are some of the most irrational (not to mention ad hominem) on these boards. Your hero Voltaire would be amused by the paradox, I think...

To Jai Khlosa --

Thank you for your comments on Hinduism and the Ganges River. However, as a "thinking Christian", I still do believe in what you call the mythological aspects of my faith. Indeed, one cannot really be a Christian and deny Christ's divinity and resurrection. To do so would be to deny the chief tenets of the faith.

There is some truth to the cleansing power of the Ganges. there is a high sulfur content that kills certain bacteria. The bathers in Ganges are taking the easy way out. they sin all their life and then hope that a quick fix will bring them salvation.

Candide

Nowhere in our scriptures are we supposed to bathe in the ganges to cleanse our sins. These are customs more specific to the north. Southern Hindus do not bathe in the Ganges?

Most female strippers are Christians and they take their clothes off and let men in the bars kiss their boobies. Is that a Christian thinggggyyyy? get real.

I suspect Candide you are a Muslim. Why did your prophet Muhammad rape children?

Thinking Hindus believe that all Hindu scriptures are man-written, may be some input from women. had women written them some of the nonsense would not be there particularly in the Vedas.

Thinking Christians do not believe in the mythological nonsense in the NT: Jesus= Son of God, resurrection etc.

As a devout Hindu I believe Hindus must be the first to criticize and reform our faith.

Now my question? when will Muslims start to think? Or will they continue to believe that Allah chose a pedophile for a prophet?

John Conolley: you an atheist? You've got too much of the ancestral blarney for that!

Jihadist: so you think bathing in cremated remains is ok. Go ahead. What about monkey poop, the sewers of Benare, the dead animals, etc? I guess you really need a bath.

I know it is fashionable to admire the spirituality of the Indians. You can have spirituality: it is an excuse for recklessness, filth, laziness, and vice. But that's religion, folks.

India is a horror!

i have to agree with the rest candide-

teeny tiny minds talk about things

small minds talk about people

great minds talk about ideas

HAPPY HINDI NEW YEAR, SPRING AND BLESSED VERNAL EQUINOX PEOPLES OF THE EARTH

actually i used to read alot of indian folklore and its packed with stories of healing and cleansing in the ganges-

Yeah, Candide, I expect you ought to get a little solid information before speculating on what might be in the Ganges.

You also ought to consider that you're talking about something of the highest personal importance to hundreds of millions of people. If you don't have any respect for religious beliefs, you should at least have a little respect for your fellow human beings who hold those beliefs.

I'm an atheist, but you managed to offend me. Grow up, pal.

Candide:)

Must be personally and deeply very painful for you to continue reading On Faith and the "crap" religious people talk about:)

And it actually don't make sense to me for some people, even non-believers, to go to self-tanning saloons or bake themselves on beaches for a tan too. Could get skin cancer.

By the way, Hindus cremate their dead and scatter the ashes in the Ganges. There were no carcasses or human waste that I saw of floating in the Ganges. Hindus are particular about their sacred river. Nobody died from bathing in the river, except those who get accidentally crushed in the crowd or die of heat that I know if when they perform their rites.

Happy Hindi New Year.

Robert B: I respect reason. Not the crap religious people talk about.

To Candide --

Tell me, do you respect anyone or anything outside of yourself?

Any religion which encourages its followers to bathe in the polluted Ganges River, the final resting place for carcasses, toilet residue, and filth of every king deserves nothing but laughter.

Everything bad and loathsome about India comes from its religion(s).

In the Shaivite Tradition (Siddha Yoga) we always celebrated the New Year in the Fall. I just checked and found out that is the Vikram New Year 2064. There are so many traditions in Hinduism, that there are several New Years depending on which system you are following. You learn something new every day.

That is going to be November 11th this year.

The site I went to:

http://www.beliefnet.com/frame_offsite.asp?pageLoc=http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa041002a.htm