I prefer to pray for the Christians to stop bombing and slaughtering Iraqis, going to bed with Saudi Arabia to control the world's oil supply, colonizing Native Americans, genociding Jews, driving them out of their own countries in the former USSR, joining with their fellow christians, the nazis, to slaughter innocent people, then stealing everything their grubby little christian fingers could get their hands on.

I prefer to pray for the christian congress which steals every bit of my tax money to pocket, since all the chrisitans are concerned about is money. Who lives, who dies, doesn't mattter an iota to them.

I prefer to pray for the christians who sell weapons to Middle Eastern countries to sell to Palestinians who paste the bodies of children they have killed on the walls of caves, and dip their hands in their blood. I want to pray for the Christians, who watch the Palestinian Christians fleeing into Israel, which accepts them, while their fellow christians prefer to think about making friends with rich middle eastern oil producers.

I prefer to pray for the christian bloodsuckers who are too cheap to pay for the protection of their "holy sites" in Israel, or guard them from Palestinian attacks because they are cowardly bloodsuckers.

I pray for the chritian media,the christian microsoft, christian citybank, all the christian banks, and christian stockbrokers every night. I pray for them as they ceremonially honor their bloodsucking, cannibal ways by drinking the blood of their Man-god, and eating his flesh in their hell-hole churches.

I pray for the Christians who could not care less about the three million Jewish refugees from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, etc. jesus, the christians don't understand how much these Muslim people hate them, as well they should.

I pray for the christians who forgot that just a few years ago the Palestinians savaged the Clinton plan, which would have given them a state by now, although without the christian Palestinians.

No wonder, today, I saw a parking spot dispute, in which one (Jewish) party called the other a Pope sucking, child f'er.

Get with your christian president, vice president, and take your selves to Iraq. And bring your born-again chrisitan haliburton with you.

As someone else said, what can one say about people who worship a corpse on a stick and then kill his descendants?

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>))))2)0)0)8))))) "NO-SHARIA!"
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PEACE, PAZ, SALAAM, SHOLOM:........______________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton МИР,평화, 和平:

VOTE:
NO' Sharia!
NO Hallakha!
NO Caste System(s)!
NO Rule By BiBLE, GiTA, QURAN!
NO Putting Down Woman Anywhere!

THANK YOU!

I think we should pray for the Jews to quit being so savage in Palestine, and Lebanon, and cluster bombing and tearing down ancient olive groves, and the houses of innocents. Their greedy continuing land grab.

One good result of such prayers might be a dimunition of the exponentially growing anti semitism in the
United States, and virulently in Europe and Asia, and all over the rest of the world.

It's not the religion...it's behavior. Look at Wall Street, which is blowing up and bringing American down, for example. Nobody ever talks bout the behavior, just whine about the results...scream anti-semitism 30 times a day, each. Must be a requirement.

I think we should pray for the Jews to quit being so savage in Palestine, and Lebanon, and cluster bombing and tearing down ancient olive groves, and the houses of innocents. Their greedy continuing land grab.

One good result of such prayers might be a dimunition of the exponentially growing anti semitism in the
United States, and virulently in Europe and Asia, and all over the rest of the world.

It's not the religion...it's behavior. Look at Wall Street, which is blowing up and bringing American down, for example. Nobody ever talks bout the behavior, just whine about the results...scream anti-semitism 30 times a day, each. Must be a requirement.

I think we should pray for the Jews to quit being so savage in Palestine, and Lebanon, and cluster bombing and tearing down ancient olive groves, and the houes of innocdnts. Their greedy continuing land grab.

One good result might be a dimunition of the exponentially growing anti semitism in the
United States, and virulently in Europe and Asia, and all over the rest of the world.

It's not so much the religion...it's behavior. Look at Wall Street, which is blowing up and bringing American down, for example. Nobody ever talks bout the behavior, just whine about the results...scream anti-semitism 30 times a day, each. Must be a requirement.
discrimnation.

I think we should pray for the Jews to quit being so savage in Palestine, and Lebanon, and cluster bombing and tearing down ancient olive groves, and the houes of innocdnts. Their greedy continuing land grab.

One good result might be a dimunition of the exponentially growing anti semitism in the
United States, and virulently in Europe and Asia, and all over the rest of the world.

It's not so much the religion...it's behavior. Look at Wall Street, which is blowing up and bringing American down, for example. Nobody ever talks bout the behavior, just whine about the results...scream anti-semitism 30 times a day, each. Must be a requirement.
discrimnation.

There never was a Jew like Jesus. Let us not forget that religion is a creation of man that goes for Jewish, Christian or Moslem religions.

Shari,

You're young and I'm not, and maybe we are living in a brave new world, though I doubt it.

You seem not to realize that this prayer, particularly in its earlier forms, fueled hatred of the Jews in the hearts of European Christians for centuries, a hatred strong enough that it led directly to many progroms and even to the Holocaust.

You wrote:

"It's not news that Christians would really like it if we Jews would embrace Jesus. It's part of their religion, and we shouldn't expect them to change their prayers so that we will feel more comfortable. Just because Catholics may be praying for us to convert, it doesn't mean that we will.

"Yes there's a horrifying history of forced conversions and violence against Jews by Christians, but now we are living in a time and place of voluntary religious affiliations and freedom of religion; we Jews shouldn't cower in the face of words.

"Let them try to convert us. We should have enough confidence not to be concerned about our people being shaken by a prayer that someone else is offering."

I'm afraid you've missed the subtext of that prayer in past years: "If you don't convert [i.e, cease being Jewish], we'll kill you."

The subtext was there and it came to pass.

You believe that things are different today:

"My answer [to the Mormon] was what Jews everywhere should be able to say to Christians, regardless of their efforts or prayers and what the Conservative Rabbis' response to the Catholic Church should be.

"No, thanks, I'm good," I said, and then went off to enjoy some cheese and crackers."

That's the same answer the German Jews gave to themselves in the 20th century up until the mid-1930's.

They believed themselves to be assimilated and safe in the German State that many Jews had fought for heroically in the First World War.

When the Hitlerite discriminations and attacks began against the Jews, fueled by the same prayer that you accept and see as benign, the Jews told themselves:

"No, thanks, we're good - We're all right, Jack".

And then they went off to enjoy some cheese and crackers and the other good things of life.

I hope you're right that we live in a different age and that this malignant prayer is harmless.

I find Ms. Rabin's words more than a little naive on several counts. I, personally, have no fear of missionaries. I am an Orthodox Jew, trained in Torah study my entire life. I am a teacher of Jewish texts and philosophy, and woe to the missionary who tries (and some mistakenly have) to engage me in debate.

I live in Jerusalem, with three Catholic and Orthodox churches on my very block, and I have seen the priests and nuns here act with perverse superiority while they have tried, again and again, to lure the young Chassidic children of our neighborhood into their enclosed courtyards. Thankfully, our children know better than to have anything to do with them.

With regards to Ms. Rubin's naivete, I have to point out here that the vast majority of Jews all over the world, not only American Jews, are completely ignorant of anything of sense or meaning in Judaism, and are absolutely prey for glib missionaries, as we see time and time again.

Is she unaware of the number of "Jewish Christians," of the massive amounts of money pumped into organizations who specifically evangelize Jews, unfortunately with great success?
Come on! Just because Ms. Rubin says, "No thanks," who says that other Jews who are rootless are not going to say, "Tell me more?" What about them?

As far as I am concerned, the Conservative protests against the Catholic liturgy are a waste of time. But Ms Rubin, it is very, very foolish to make light of the abysmal state of defense of the non-Orthodox population. Very out of touch with the reality.

TO SHARI RABIN AND THE REST OF HUMANITY:

In your article, the translation of the prayer to be said on Good Friday states, ""Let us pray for the Jews. May the Lord Our God enlighten their hearts so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men."".

The first part 'Let us pray for the Jews', what is offensive about that?

The second part, 'May the Lord Our God enlighten their hearts so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men', maybe we should expand this and include people that call themselves 'christian' but definitely don't believe that Jesus is "the savior of all men".

The Rabbis-that-be find this to be offensive and a barrier to interfaith work.

What I find offensive is the fact that people care more about religion than God, Who is a Being of Pure Love, more about dogma than doing, more about the appearance of doing right than doing right.

Another thing Jesus was a Jew and He died a Jew.

Anyone who considers themselves a 'christian' should also consider that since it is a belief that Jesus died for our [HUMANITY'S] sins or wrongdoings, whatever you wish to call it, then since I am a Christian then I killed Jesus, I am the guilty one.

Another way to put it is, Jesus is the unblemished Lamb and I, the New Testament Moses, am the guilty goat sent out into the desert of sin blessed by Aaron.

It seems to me that some Jews and non-Jews alike get upset when either I or anyone else refer to the Jews as the Chosen People but they are for the simple fact that God not only chose them but also formed them.

Being chosen doesn't mean you are better or anything of the kind, it just means that you are chosen.

As I have said before and I say again, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.

It is important what you do and why you do it and what you know.

I don't know how to put it any simpler.

Take care, be ready, see you [humanity] in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

John Stephens said:

"Those persons who suffer angst that Jews have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour understand neither Christianity nor Judaism."

I agree in principle, but isn't this Vatican-approved prayer a direct contradiction of that statement? I mean, if the Pope doesn't understand Christianity, who does? Yet this prayer does seem to indicate a certain amount of angst among Catholics, at least, that Jews have not "found Jesus".

MS. RABIN:

Very sensible and civil. Kind and charitable, too.

Anyone who forced Jews to convert were ipso facto not Christians, whatever their claim. It is nothing short of madness to believe that Jesus, a Jew, would be antisemitic or approve of violent conversion, which thing he never practiced, as Jews have never done such an abominable thing. Christians, by definition, follow the example of Christ.

Those persons who suffer angst that Jews have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour understand neither Christianity nor Judaism.

Christians have the hope of salvation. Jews have the promise of deliverance. "Because He could swear by none greater, God swore by Himself, that he would save all Israel." It is impossible that God will not keep His promise to Abraham.

Paul, a Pharisee, likened Judaism to the roots, bole and branches of a tree. God removed some natural branches (such as Korah and Saul) and grafted in some unnatural branches (such as Gentiles). Paul sternly warned that it is far easier to pluck out the unnatural branches than the true.

In other words, Christians should show some humility. The relationship between the two faiths is best illustrated by ancient synagogues with Jews gathered inside and goyim outside in the Court of the Gentiles.

Mazel Tov

we Jews shouldn't cower in the face of words

Personally, I could not care less about this prayer, since with it or without it, anti-Jewish racism will remain among the Christians, Catholic or otherwise. Supersessionist ideology demands the acknowledgement of the superceded either tacitly by destroying them, or by conversion.

The New (sic) Testament requires radical reformation, not only for the errors it contains, but for the hatred with which it is saturated. Catholic theologian Rosemary Reuther has long argued for revision as has the Protestant Steven Haynes. These are only two among many. Levinas has written lucidly on the evil of typology with which both Christianity and Islam are cursed. Yet there are none so blind as those who for two thousand years have refused to see.

You are quite correct when you say that we should not cower in the face of words. When my Jewish college freshmen tell me that their high school classmates threw pennies at them, how did they respond? Not by cowering, certainly. When Catholic students ask in my American Literature class, why their own church has folks "dress up like Jews" during Easter and yell, "Kill him, kill him," I don't have an answer I can give them. The question arises as they read William Bradford's typological praise for the burning of American Indians to death.

When Jewish students continually report antisemitic remarks, when you read posts on OnFaith, such as Arun Gandhi's, I can see the wisdom of what you say. We should not cower.

We should recognize that the Catholics have hard hearts, that they are stubborn. We should recgnize that they have always used language as a precursor to violence. We should mobilize, demonstrate, and make sure they understand that there will be consequences for their acts. They understand power. Nothing else.

"we Jews shouldn't cower in the face of words."

i agree. but please be sober and aware-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXrlejToRtQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrL5mMTes8

Shari Rabin writes: "Yes there's a horrifying history of forced conversions and violence against Jews by Christians, but now we are living in a time and place of voluntary religious affiliations and freedom of religion; we Jews shouldn't cower in the face of words."

And how long do you suppose this time will last?

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PEACE,PAZ,SALAAM,SHOLOM,FREIDEN,МИР,평화, 和平:

VOTE: Mrs. & Mrs. Clinton for PREZ, Yea! VOTE: EXPERiENCE:
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Mr. Ex-Prez CLiNTON Thank You:
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PEACE, PAZ, SALAAM, SHOLOM:........______________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton//// МИР,평화, 和平:
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Mrs New-Prez HILLARY Clinton. Thank You:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton МИР,평화, 和平:

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VOTE: Doff Hat's Off For both Presient Hillary & Bill, YEA!

There is one very obvious reason that both Christians and Muslims want Jews to convert and that is they want the blessing of the religion that had major influence on both at the time of their respective births. Jesus, of course, being Jewish and Mohammad being rebuffed by the Jewish tribes in Arabia. The continued existence of the Jewish Religion is seen as an insult by the two aspiring world religions that emanated from Abraham.

There is one very obvious reason that both Christians and Muslims want Jews to convert and that is they want the blessing of the religion that had major influence on both at the time of their respective births. Jesus, of course, being Jewish and Mohammad being rebuffed by the Jewish tribes in Arabia. The continued existence of the Jewish Religion is seen as an insult by the two aspiring world religions that emanated from Abraham.

lol! What a common-sensicle approach. Hopefully it will catch on!

Why, though, in the 21st century, does this prayer specify Jews? Historically, I see the significance, but it seems a little outdated these days.

Why (if the prayer was already open to change or revision) does it not also ask faithful Catholics to pray for Muslims, Atheists, Hindus, whatever to accept Jesus as the Son of God? In fact, why does it still specify any one group at all? Why not pray for everyone to accept Jesus?

I don't know...I guess I think that the Vatican just missed a real opportunity here to rebuild some interfaith bridges without losing the spiritual message of the prayer.

Maybe, though, I misunderstand the significance of that particular reference to Jewish people? Is the historical message so important today, or is the spiritual message so intertwined with the reference to Jews that it can't be changed without losing the spiritual significance of the prayer?

Thanks,
Craig