http://yomayonifigasebe.com yomayonifigasebe

It amazes me how this topic descends into name-calling and denigrations so swiftly. Those with whom I fundamentally disagree haven't forfeited their basic human dignity because of their point of view. In fact, no matter how inhuman we may act, there is still a truly unalienable dignity retained in our unique personhood. Let's respond accordingly, so as not to impugn our own dignity.

Lost in the rhetorical shouting is Elizabeth's observation that her editing professor believes that the pairing of the terms "anti-abortion" and "abortion rights" is unbiased.

While I disagree, and believe that only an "abortion rights" advocate could conclude thusly, I recognize other factors that contribute to this point of view. If an anti-abortion advocate supports the death penalty (particularly in light of our ability to build a Supermax) or a war that doesn't meet all "just war" criteria, how can we accurately refer to this person as "pro-life"? It could be that "anti-abortion," while not a more balanced or neutral term, is the more accurate way to refer to those whose respect for the fundamental dignity of all human life, from conception to natural death, is not so consistent.

It so pathetic when pro abortion liberals claim they are more pro life because they want to spend 10 dollars on social welfare spending and conservatives only want to spend 7.

There is NO comparison between relative levels of social spending and an intrinsic moral evil like abortion.

What? Who said I'm a "xtian"? And the word is "hypocrite," silly - with an 'e.'

Hormonal birth control prevents ovulation. On your own link it is only the minipill, with 1 kind of hormone, that may not do just that.

A fertilized embryo can't be denied anything. It has no consciousness. Thus, no rights. The living, breathing, thinking woman within whom the "fertilized embryo" resides does have rights, and that includes the right to suppress ovulation, have no uterine lining, or remove the thing in her uterus that wants to live off of her for nine months.

I posted anonymously by mistake. Again, you are a misinformed moron. For all versions of birth control pills, 40-50% of their effectivness is that a fertilized embryo cannot implant because it finds a uterine wall that seems to already have an embryo implanted. Do a little research dummy. So you are excersizing that situational morality so dreaded by followers of the cults of Abraham. A fertilized embryo is denied a chance at birth due to the choice of a human.

You can't have it both ways. Well, actually you can, but you are being a typical xtian hypocrit, the same as with fertilization clinics and those 200,000 poor dead 'humans' that get flushed every year.

That's one pill. There are many methods of hormonal birth control. And, a "fertilized egg" isn't a person, especially when not implanted. It's one part of the process, and if the minipill removes the 2nd part, then there's no pregnancy at all. There's no real case for that perspective.

And I have my reasons for posting anonymously, my fellow anonymous friend.

http://womenshealth.about.com/od/thepill/f/howpillworks.htm

The progestin in the Minipill may prevent ovulation; however it may not do this reliably each month. The Minipill works further by thickening the mucous around the cervix and preventing sperm from entering the uterus. The lining of the uterus is also affected in a way that prevents fertilized eggs from implanting into the wall of the uterus. The Minipill is taken every day. You may not have a period while taking the Minipill, if you do have periods that means you are still ovulating and your risk for pregnancy occuring is greater.

No wonder you post anonymously. You are a frickin idiot.

Excuse me Mazer, I didn't realize you were watching the game. So what would you have done Mr. Rackham? Would you have committed xenocide, or in the end, decided life is worth it, regardless of 'humanity', and saved the last egg? It turned out I was right, but that was only a book, and I hope it becomes a damn movie before I get too old to remember the book.

If it comes down to the secular west vs. Islam, should we save the egg after we nuke Mecca, Tehran, Singapore and Detroit? Or make sure it does not survive?

The number one goal of the US should be to get us and most of the world off of a hydrocarbon economy. Not just to stop global warming, but to stop 100 million unemployed oil babies from having the time on their hands and the money to worry what the hell happens to Israel, Palestine or Hollywood.

Let them eat oil and drink deisel praise be to the profit morehamman.

THE PILL PREVENTS OVULATION. WITHOUT OVULATION, THERE IS NO FERTILIZATION. THE PILL DOES NOTHING TO FERTILIZED EGGS.

You people are freaking insane.

ender you say-

"modern evangelical xtianity is a death cult, in favor of the murder and torture of Iraqis that never attacked us, the murder of convicted murderers, the abandonment of the poor and needy, and therefore not entitled to use the term pro-life"

why wring your hands in worry about xtians? in the next generation they will be as good as gone. muslims require women to bear a child every one of their fertile years. their population will overcome our democratic government in short time. by then their oil wealth will have bought our western civilization lock, stock, and barrel. (irony intended)

BTW, do none of you have the balls to address my main point, that modern evangelical xtianity is a death cult, in favor of the murder and torture of Iraqis that never attacked us, the murder of convicted murderers, the abandonment of the poor and needy, and therefore not entitled to use the term pro-life?

You are mixing your stats. 50% of the effectiveness of the Pill is that a fertilized ovum cannot attach to a uterine wall that already "thinks it is pregnant" and are "aborted". The statisic regarding miscarriage is about pregnancies that have gone long enough that the ovum was attached, or true pregancies.

So anyone that thinks a first day fertilized ovum is a 'human life' and due protection, and has ever taken the Pill, is a hypocrit.

Life is life. Until a human embryo has the traits of a human, it is not a human life, just a clump of living cells not different than an ameoba or a dolphin embryo.

There should be real conversation about viability, and increasing responsibility over time to terminate a pregnancy. That said, right wingnuts in Colorado are trying to get a law on the books that gives full legal rights to an embryo from day one of conception.

Reasonable conversation then denied to reasonable people, because the Abortion Rights "professionals" those that have a political stake in the continuing to the debate, are afraid, and probably correctly, that any retreat from Roe vs. Wade will result in extreme measures like those in Colorado, that deny early term abortions, and abortions medically necessary to perserve the health of the mother.

And still, at what point does the state have the right to override the rights of the fully adult and autonomous human carrying a fetus? When the fetus is viable? Does that make the State responsible for the care of the fetus if the host decides it does not want to carry that fetus any longer? Are you going to pay for the care of aborted premies? Right wing America doesn't even want to provide health care insurance or living assistance for poor children. Our foster care systems are a crime themselves.

When our government shows true compassion for children and is willing to take care of children when their parents won't or can't, this conversation might have meaning.

As for myself, I think abortion for crackheads out to be a requirement because I do not believe my tax dollars should go toward the astronomical cost on society for raising that child from birth to .....prison.

And as to what constitues life, there are apes with IQs of over 40 and vocabularies of several hundred words. I certainly think they have more right to protection under the law than the less than eight week tadpole parasite with as many fish traits as human ones, and an IQ of 0.

If an embryo should have rights at conception, then all fertilization clinics would be forced to cease business immediatley. Again, part of the insane dialogue around the abortion issue. Those 200,000 unused embryos that will be discarded this year by fertilization clinics are perfect for stem cell research. A viable, or even 8 week embryo are useless for creating a viable stem cell line.

And lastly, we are a secular nation by Constitution. Any argument that uses religion to decide an embryos status as "human" makes the argument itself uncredible, and insures it has no place in the legal decisions about abortion.

Ender:

My mother as a young woman in the 70s was told an abortion was "just a clump of cells" too. That lie was told to ease the distress of the woman before an abortion.

It may be hard for you to change your mind as technology improves.

But lets be honest. That "clump of cells' is not "A TADPOLE FOR GOODNESS SAKES". It's human. An embryo's heart begins beating at 5 weeks. It's a human heart- beating like yours and mine.

Scroll to the bottom of this link and take a look at the picture provided by a Doctor who cares for women with ectopic pregnancies. One objective, non-biased look at the truth.

http://www.thefetus.net/page.php?id=1907

You ask-

"Is your problem really with the termination of a fetus or the fact that a human makes that decision?"

Death is waiting for all of us. So- using your logic- God kills us all. But its our natural end. Every human beating heart will one day cease to beat- yours and mine.

I speak against abortion because it is the unatural ceasing of a beating human heart.

For those interested:

Freelance photographer Michael Clancy took this picture at a Vanderbilt University hospital in 1999 during a new en utero surgical procedure to treat spina bifida of a 21-week-old baby boy named Samuel Armas, now seven.

http://www.michaelclancy.com/main_lrg.htm

Ender:

Such a high number of pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriages (as opposed to "procured" or elective abortions) not because of the will of God, but because of the birth control pill. It includes a chemical agent to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg, miscarrying the little teeny human. On the off-change that the egg implants, continued use of the pill induces menstruation, which of course miscarries the baby with it.

I know a woman who uses the long-lasting patch, and discovered she was pregnant when she miscarried in her 6th or 7th week.

Ender, it is NOT a tadpole. Humans don't come from tadpoles. They come from two other humans. The child is not very developed at first, but that only makes sense. Still, he or she is the parents' human child. It cannot be anything else. Of course, judging by the quality of grammar and orthography of some of these posts, their writers are not very well developed either. Do you have a cut-off date in mind, after which a person is sufficiently developed to be respected as a human, and before which his life is forfeit to the whims of anyone passing by who is more powerful?

It's not the legality of abortion that is an issue. Abortion needs to be legal because when it is not, women die from illegal abortions that sometimes need to be performed medically (not even to get into the issue of the fact that it is a woman's choice whether or not she wishes to take her pregnancy to term, especially in a country with the shitty healthcare system we have). Please read up on the situation in Catholic Nicaragua.

The real issue is education and contraception. When people are educated about sex and contraception in an honest way, not an abstinence-only way, and are given easy access to all methods of contraception, abortion is much less of an issue. The thing is, you can't put your idea of when life begins on everyone. You can't force the 15 year old girl who didn't know you can get pregnant on your period and didn't make her boyfriend wear a condom have the kid and suffer 9 months of humiliation, when it's the fault of the government putting billions of dollars into miseducation. We're making kids not educated about sex when perhaps they're mentally ready to handle it (*gasp* teenagers have a grip on their faculties?!). That's a horrible and reckless abuse of power.

To reiterate - abortion isn't the issue, and the way you word it isn't the issue. It's education and contraception, and safe, legal abortion for when it is necessary (which it sometimes medically is).

To read answers to the account is to understand that this country is run by abortionist Nazis.

Yes, did you notice the one honest shot where the fetus still HAD A TAIL AND GILLS? AND IT WAS SMALLER THAN MY FINGERNAIL. DO YOU HAVE THE SAME CONCERN FOR ALL LIFE? IT'S A TADPOLE FOR GOODNESS SAKES. BETTER GET ON THE PRO FROG BANDWAGON. NO MORE FROG DISECTIONS IN BIOLOGY CLASS!!!

And your god is still #1 leading provider of ABORTIONS!

Once again I would like an answer...
Is your problem really with the termination of a fetus, or the fact that a human makes that decision, instead of your god?

Ender says:

"At that point the (8 week) fetus is a undefined collection of cells with no more brain or humanity than a sand knat (gnat)."

Please take a look readers-

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=8+week+fetus&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Everyone on earth began this way. All human attributes already fixed. Now imagine the older 30% of legal abortions.

Rightwing Fundamentalist Christian movement has made the term Pro-life a misnomer. They are nearly unanimous in their support of the death penalty, while opposing assistance for poor children and families.

Anti-abortion is a true statement about that evangelical religious movement in the US.

Pro-life is not.

BTW with over 30% of all pregnancies ending in miscarriage, or spontaneous abortion, GOD is the #1 provider of abortions.

70% of legal abortion occurs at less than 8 weeks. At that point the fetus is a undefined collection of cells with no more brain or humanity than a sand knat. Is your problem really with the termination of a fetus, or the fact that a human makes that decision, instead of your god?