When the last Catholic church finally closes its doors, do you think they'll get it then?

Consider going Protestant. We'd welcome you.

Mars,

In vino veritas, and, as Seneca said, "Bibamus,

moriendum est".

Elizabeth,

You have my respect and good wishes. From a fellow female Hoya of a previous generation-- never give up on our church. She needs this dialogue. If we left the church, who would save her?

A mother's advice-- PLEASE be wary of the alcohol consumption at those GU parties. It can be brutal. Evil comes in many forms.

Dear Elizabeth,

When are you going to wake up and figure out that religions are male-dominated, hierarchical constructs of human beings and having nothing to do with GOD?????????????????????????????

You are not equal in the eyes of your church. Are you happy with that? Do you think your church is ever going to change? Do you think you are ever going to change?

Choice: You can be free or you can belong to the Catholic Church. Which is it going to be?

Warpimps:

Interesting that you can label me (unsuccessfully)as a "liberal" (another overused, meaningless word anymore) and accuse me of "soft relativism" based on a one sentence remark, which you did not address in your response. What is a "good' Catholic? If I were to similarly read into your blanket statement about evangelicals and jews I could conclude that you labor under a burden of bias and prejudice that might not qualify you as a "good Catholic". I am not sure that would be a fair reading either.

Good move Liz,

A catholic with a curious mind is sometimes hard to find. I had many of these convos down at JMU with the friends and fellow KofC bros. The church does need to be kept in check, and it is refreshing to hear your view. It is odd how others feel that having faith makes one completely irreasonable or irrational.

Sorry, Elizabeth, but an honest reading of the Bible demonstrates that the FMOG (future minister of God) had theology on his side. How someone as seemingly as bright as you, and of your gender, can continue to be a believer, let alone Catholic, simply baffles me. Jesus did essentially nothing to improve the position of women, slaves, and other oppressed groups.

Of course, since Jesus began as a mythological figure -- see Earl Doherty's compelling arguments to support this view in "The Jesus Puzzle" -- it is hardly surprising that Jesus had the same prejudices as those (particularly Mark) who invented him. Jesus, being God, could have -- in a few words -- simply declared that women are the equal of men, and anyone who thinks or acts otherwise will spend eternity in Hell. He could have done the same for slavery. Instead, we get "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ" (Ephesians 6:5) (with the mistranslation of "slaves" as "servants," of course). Because you are a theology student, Elizabeth, I doubt I have to dredge up all the passages in the New Testament that endorse slavery and the shabby treatment of women. (Forget the Old Testament. The offensive material on women and slaves is so vast one can hardly touch on it in a comment like this.)

Elizabeth said to FMOG, "Don’t limit God!" Given me a break. The God of the Bible is so limited that he was obviously created by humans with limited knowledge and reasoning skills. I'm not sure who's worse: FMOG for taking the Bible literally or Elizabeth for providing cover for those who take it literally.

Elizabeth,

Speaking of your becoming a Protestant, you seem to be enthusiastically following Martin Luther's admonition:

LOVE GOD AND DO AS YOU PLEASE!

Good advice for all. Keep on enjoying the beer and the talk.

Echomike23:

There are plenty of things to wonder about politically and sociall as a Catholic (the evangelical+jewish push for Iraq war and the cheerleading by the media be one).

However, there are certain truths/beliefs that do not change to suit the fashion and prevailing attitudes of the day.

But as a liberal, what do you know about other than soft relativism...

And a 'good Catholic' would be just what exactly? One who never questioned or wondered about anything?

And a 'good Catholic' would be just what exactly? One who never questioned or wondered about anything?

In fairness, your pro-life work is admirable indeed.

Couldn't WaPo find a good Catholic to represent the faith?

And please, Elizabeth: don't use "conservative" when you mean "orthodox."

How did you get this blogspot again?

Oh, right...this is the Washington Post and you are a "repressed minority."

In any case, men and women have different roles to play in the Church (as male and female have distinct and equally important roles to play in the natural world).

This isn't the 60's...if you find certain 2000 year old traditions difficult to accept then become a Protestant.

I'm not feeling the love, here; I'm feeling pride in the strength of one's unassailable rhetorical position.