Yasseryousufi, you wrote "Maybe if this idiot ever crawled out of under the rock he lives in and travelled to places like Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Tunisia, Algeria, Lebanon (I could go on and on) with their attractive nightlife, women donning bikinis on the beaches they are a far cry from the Islamo-Phobes vision of all muslim women being burka clad. Interestingly they exist mostly in monarchies backed by the US Government".

Lets see Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan you are holding these old soviet outposts as your examples of secular democracies. Who are you kidding, Joseph? These are erstwhile communist states the fight over there is between the the old part apparatchiks who gained in the wake of soviet collapse and the fresh of the Saudi mint islamic bigots. Given that Frankly it is hard to pick between the two sets of unadulterated evils. I will take a pass on both of them and pity the people for their misfortune to be an erstwhile muslim majority soviet republics.

Now coming to Tunisia, Algeria aren't these the two countries where we had a series of military coups and counter coups, to curb the islamic militancy and then there have been a series of bloodbaths in name of islam in the 10 - 15 years? Go peddle these two countries as the hot tourist spots in Karachi and you may be able to sel half a dozen tickets, there.

And of course there is that effervescent islamic paradise of Lebanon. the only reason there are some operating churches is because of significant Maronite community that has not yet completely fled the country. In the wake of Hezbollah, what is left there that anyone could be proud of. Yes once it was a blue dot in the ocean red bigotry - not any more. So who is the ignorant Josephi? Who is making a fool of himself Josephi? BTW bikini clad women you find in egypt too, that does not make it a citadel of secularism. That is for all the tourist dollars, for at least some bigots, dollars make them look the other way - as long as it is not the chaste muslimah donning the bikini. Enough of this nonsense. Please go and read Mansoor Ijaz article on how a US muslim should conduct him or herself.

"There is no legislation in Congress, nor any executive orders to do such a wrong-headed thing. Even Rush Limbaugh is not suggesting it. "

That's true at the present time. But with the level of hysteria rising in this country, it's reasonable to suspect that the idea will grow beyond the blogosphere.

"people are being recruited to attack the US in the name of Islam. Including american muslims."

In the name of X implies that X is giving its official endorsement. That's different from groups like Al Qaeda claiming to act in the name of Islam. While their agenda much more dangerous than that of, say, the Family Research Council, both groups have objectives that are partly religious and partly political. Neither group is acting in the name of its religion or on behalf of its religion.

"America never was serious about religious freedom and tolerance..."

Well, we are racially, ethnically, and religiously the most diverse country in the world. That sounds pretty serious to me. After all, some say that we even have a Mohammedan for our President. ;-)

BTW, the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness never did guarantee that everyone will, in fact, be happy here. Just that you can pursue your happiness here.

You all should google" The Community Center of Death" episode on the Daily Show. An absolute riot. Get some perspective with a good laugh.

Mr. Patel,

America never was serious about religious freedom and tolerance, that was simply rhetoric. This is the Christian States of America, and non-Christians are 2nd-class citizens. Stop judging people and nations by their words and start judging them by their deeds.

So, will be saudi arabia. Could you imagine 5 years ago that people will ask saudi arabia right for other religions? could you believe 10 years ago that people will dare to burn quran?

Secular, the bigoted Hindu rears his head yet again and comes up with flat out lies as always!

"This is not at all true. There is no such country which is both muslim majority and secular, bar a few. namely Turkey, Syria, & used to be Iraq too."

Maybe if this idiot ever crawled out of under the rock he lives in and travelled to places like Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Tunisia, Algeria, Lebanon (I could go on and on) with their attractive nightlife, women donning bikinis on the beaches they are a far cry from the Islamo-Phobes vision of all muslim women being burka clad. Interestingly they exist mostly in monarchies backed by the US Government.

"Even in those countries no other place worship can exist other than a mosque."

FACT CHECK

There are thousands of Churches all over the muslim world. Christmas is a public holiday in most Islamic countries as is the New Year. Try using google for a change rather than just Jihadwatch.com if you dont wanna sound like an idiot around educated people.

"The comparisons to the WW2 interment are valid..."

The comparison to WW II internment camps is ridiculous. There is no legislation in Congress, nor any executive orders to do such a wrong-headed thing. Even Rush Limbaugh is not suggesting it. Perhaps some fool blogger trolls with too much time on their hands said it to stir up the credulous, but then blog troll idiots will say anything.

double standards are appropriate if the expected behavior can be differentiated. Just because there is a double standard, in itself, does not invalidate a position.

A group of killers should be recognized as such. As people are being recruited into Naziism as we write, so people are being recruited to attack the US in the name of Islam. Including american muslims. If person can be recruited by an organization basing its beliefs on a religious book and that group justifies world conquest based on a book, we should have double standards that prevent that book's ideology from becoming powerful.

If the US does start arresting massive numbers of persons because they are or appear to be muslim, it would be a wrong. The hypothetical, that I doubt will happen, is not the same as the actual number of muslims in the world who, encouraged by their ideology, want to overthrow the government and culture of the US. If muslims in America want to promote freedom, they would be better spending their time promoting American values in the Islamic world. That would free actually intered persons (and women).

hariaum

"Even in those countries no other place worship can exist other than a mosque."

Huh? Istanbul and Damascus are among the cities that have active Christian churches. Obviously non-Muslims in many of these nations don't have the full rights of their Muslim countrymen, and this is objectionable no matter what religion is involved. But the governments in these countries are largely separate from the religious authorities. Not as great as in the US or Europe, but not as extreme as Iran or Saudi Arabia either.

I'm not necessarily trying to defend Islam, since I'm even more repulsed by its theology than I am by Christian theology. What I'm criticizing is the double standard. We don't assume that most abortion opponents support the bombing of clinics or the murder of doctors who perform abortion, or that that most citizens of Ireland support IRA bombings. We don't place the burden on those majorities of disavowing the extremists, although they often do so as an expression of sympathy for the victims. So there's no reason to place that burden on most Muslims.

arstonio you wrote, "....there are many other Muslim-majority countries where that is not the case. We shouldn't focus on Saudi Arabia to the exclusion of such countries where the governments are largely secular". This is not at all true. There is no such country which is both muslim majority and secular, bar a few. namely Turkey, Syria, & used to be Iraq too. Even in those countries no other place worship can exist other than a mosque. In fact in Turkey just this past weekend they allowed the orthodox to have some kind of open carnival like thing with the orthodox pope or whatever he is called to preside. Even Dubai only recently allowed to use the 2nd floor of a building as a temple. In Malaysia supposed pluralistic country is actually a islamic country to the core with non-muslim openly treated as dhimmis. In cas of inter-faith marriage the non-muslim is forced to convert.

Jealously Deleted, but Faithfully Reposted: Aye. --- Correction: Saudi Arabousia's invaded "ZOROASTRIAN" PERSIA" 637 CE/AD. [Not ex-Pagan ishlami Iranians] Thanks.

Note: Persia had A Real MONO-THEO Religion/Faith/Belief but turned into another MONO-THEO Belief/Religion/Faith??

FACT: Abrahamic-ISLAMi or Abrahamic ESAUi includes ALL, EVERY & ANY, Abrahamics (includes MORMON) and VEDICs Systems a "POLY-THEO" Systems in Fact!

This is Today's Biggest LIE! {imagining, yet Denying that Ishlami & or Abrahamics & Vedics competing, for some gods names, and gods Heaven, Hells or in-betweens Worlds, or Faith-SYSTEM(s) are POLY-THEO Religions; and ZERO Mono-Theo!}.

PS: There is NO Such an Animal [Religion] Today, on Earth, as be 'True' (opposite MYTH) MONO-THEO. All are in fact POLY-THEO: Soo,

Pleazza World; Don't DO-n-then-DENY, nor Deny to selves this REVEALation. aye!?

Pssst, Secret (opposite Reveal): Only the A-P-O-C-A-L-Y-T-i-C Religion via "EKLAH"t, aka "SOURCE-ONE/EK/UNO.." aka "IT" (never some HE or a SHE god(s)). And the Best part is; is The "IT" Religion/Faith/Belief is "MADE-in-AMERIK" for Amerik's 1st & then the Rest of the World/Continents 2nd!

iMagine, The "RELiGION of Everything, before, the SCiENCE of Everything"? Guess What? WE[i] art COME!

Behold the "MELCHIZEDEK" 'PEACE BLESSING', thus reversing the Drunkin Racist-NOAH/Abrahamic & Arjuna-Ramma/Vedic 'WAR BLESSING's! PS: Stupid People are Dangerous, even when (pre-Apocalyptically) Educated!

GOODBYE: Mr. ZEUS. Goodbye OSIRIS/SETH. Goodbye Mr. MOSES, Mr. VYASA, Mr. GAUTAMA, Mr. JESUS, Mr. MUHAMMAD, Mr MORONi etal!. WHEREFORE:

Help Celebrate the Great out-Door/Indoor annual Burnings of the cursed/sin'th (un) Holy Infixus-Books on Earth; a/k/a the Evil/Kali/Jinn'd Chumash//Bibles/BkofMormon, Geeta//Gita's, Tangyurs//Kangyurs, QURANs/Korans etal!

HELLO; to Our "O.U.R." Book {O.ne U.niversal R.eligion [INNATE] System; never again Man-Made JEALOUS Religion; Systems}. Yes; the "ULTRA-PARATESTAMENT" is (the Deliverance after the "SUPREME-Paratestament") Here 2010; which Started 1969-70 & which will end 2024/25; as foretold in ALL ye/Yo's iNfixUS-Books mentioned Above. This is our O.U.R.{for Apocalyptarian's only} real Story. O' Jealousy!
Originally POSTED BY: WOODSTOCK-41 | AUGUST 25, 2010 12:29 PM

Correction: Saudi Arabousia's invaded "ZOROASTRIAN" PERSIA" 637 CE/AD. [Not Pagan Iran] Thanks.

Jealously Deleted but Faithfully Reposted.
Note: Persia had A Real MONO-THEO Religion/Faith/Belief but turned into another MONO-THEO Belief/Religion/Faith??

FACT: Abrahamic-ISLAMi or Abrahamic ESAUi includes ALL, EVERY & ANY, Abrahamics (includes MORMON) and VEDICs Systems a "POLY-THEO" Systems in Fact!

This is Today's Biggest LIE! {imagining, yet Denying that Ishlami & or Abrahamics & Vedics competing, for some gods names, and gods Heaven, Hells or in-betweens Worlds, or Faith-SYSTEM(s) are POLY-THEO Religions; and ZERO Mono-Theo!}.

PS: There is NO Such an Animal [Religion] Today, on Earth, as be 'True' (opposite MYTH) MONO-THEO. All are in fact POLY-THEO: Soo,

Pleazza World; Don't DO-n-then-DENY, nor Deny to selves this REVEALation. aye!?

Pssst, Secret (opposite Reveal): Only the A-P-O-C-A-L-Y-T-i-C Religion via "EKLAH"t, aka "SOURCE-ONE/EK/UNO.." aka "IT" (never some HE or a SHE god(s)). And the Best part is; is The "IT" Religion/Faith/Belief is "MADE-in-AMERIK" for Amerik's 1st & then the Rest of the World/Continents 2nd!

iMagine, The "RELiGION of Everything, before, the SCiENCE of Everything"? Guess What? WE[i] art COME!

Behold the "MELCHIZEDEK" 'PEACE BLESSING', thus reversing the Drunkin Racist-NOAH/Abrahamic & Arjuna-Ramma/Vedic 'WAR BLESSING's! PS: Stupid People are Dangerous, even when (pre-Apocalyptically) Educated!

GOODBYE: Mr. ZEUS. Goodbye OSIRIS/SETH. Goodbye Mr. MOSES, Mr. VYASA, Mr. GAUTAMA, Mr. JESUS, Mr. MUHAMMAD, Mr MORONi etal!. WHEREFORE:

Help Celebrate the Great out-Door/Indoor annual Burnings of the cursed/sin'th (un) Holy Infixus-Books on Earth; a/k/a the Evil/Kali/Jinn'd Chumash//Bibles/BkofMormon, Geeta//Gita's, Tangyurs//Kangyurs etal!

HELLO; to Our "O.U.R." Book {O.ne U.niversal R.eligion [INNATE] System; never again Man-Made JEALOUS Religion; Systems}. Yes; the "ULTRA-PARATESTAMENT" is (the Deliverance) Here 2010; which Started 1969-70 & which will end 2024/25; as foretold in ALL ye/Yo's iNfixUS-Books mentioned Above.

This is our O.U.R.{for Apocalyptarian's only} real Story. Sorry. O' Jealousy!

POSTED BY: WOODSTOCK-41 | AUGUST 25, 2010 12:29 PM

Jealously Deleted off MANSOUR IJAZ but Faithfully Reposted:
.
..
...
.....O.......……………………,/////////////……………..........,/..
..0.........………,……..__,---///////////////////,…..............,/././..
0............…………,-'.. ). ). ). ). ). ).''///////_\…........../././././ ..
....O.......……_,-' ))`.. ) .) .). ) .) .) .). ). ).)..`-......././././././
........……/..(♠ ♣)_).).).).).\. ) .). ) .). ). ) .). )__/./././././././ .
............…\____ ).).).).).). ).). ). ). ) .). ). ).__.\.\.\.\.\.\.\.\...
}-ISHLAMI's;> .))))))./. ). ). ) .) .) .). ).)_/,-`__.\.\.\.\.\.\.\..
............…..___,').),'). ). ). ). )_),,--'……………...\.\.\.\.\.\ …
............….(_______............\.\)_),--'"……………...`\.\.\.\ ...
............……………….-.........\.\.\……………………...`\.\.\ ..
............……,…………...........\.\.\……………….............`\.
.....................................................................................
.
..
... CREDIT to "JJ" ..@.. http://onwapo.com

POSTED BY: WOODSTOCK-41 | AUGUST 25, 2010 11:50 AM

REPOSTED: Fact: O S A M A - B I N - L A D E N is DEAD! Since Summer 2007! Note: Ishlam is NOt Made nor for AMERIK(s), aka Apocalyptarian-Umah.! It's Imported religion.

"Satanic VersUS" lovin "ELDERS of AL-TAQIYAH" Ummah of Ishlami's//Esauami's wanted "A-T-T-E-N-T-i-O-N", so Lets giv'em Attention! The kind of 'attention' that's louder than a bomb; or more destructive then Arabous-Hijacked-Planes smashing into KAFIR-Built, Kafir-Genius (zero Ishlami's) Sky Scrapers!

Note: This is NOt a Cartoon; IT is more that That. REMEMBER: The Kaaba Will Be Destroyed If Muhajeen/Talibandits & Ummah do NOt Stop their (un) Holyi War against KAFIR's! G_D (if any) hath No Patience?

REVEALATiON: The Ground under Kaaba at Mecca Saudi Arabousia Landa Will be swallowed-up IF not adhere the Apocalyptarians Warning! ELSE Soon soon very soon. O' Ishlami, Esauami, Sufiami Ummah & Co; STOP the Killing; or Else. LAST CHANCE [Before this 9.11.2010]. REPENT: O' King ABDULLAH of Saudi Arabousia & Wahhabi-Bi's & Ayatollah's Ummah: Announce to The World; That ISHLAMi's are SORRY; for what their (Ye/Yo) so-called "Magnificent-19" Martyr's Hath Done (knowingly or Unkowingly) on 9.11 (includes Befor n After). soo, Make Genuine Peace with Israel; NOt Wild Palestinian/Cannanites/Gazaites et al!

RECOMMENDATION: AEGYPT (before the Great & wise Pharaoh, Prez, Sir/Mr. Brother Hosni Mubarak dies); Should re-ABSORB or re-own "GAZA" (like Pre-1967) and merge/annex into Sinai 'Al Arish' landa. Because Jordon will be majority Pali's in 20 Years, therein. Then "Healing of Nations", Genuine World-Peace, Love & Dance will be realized. Else NO!

Fact: During 632 CE/AD (Same Year Mr. muHAM-MAD died; via Poison Lamb meat by a [his] enslaved Jewess-Concubine, who's Husband and Family & Friends Muhammad & Co. murdered/plundered) That the SAUDi Arabou's Invaded Pagan Worshiping BAALite GAZAn's & forced them 'Wild' folk to convert to Ishlami's! Then in 637 CE/AD the Arabous Saudi's, with help from converted Wild Gazan-ites (Canaanites called PALi'S today) Plundered and Diaspora'd JERUSALEM; then Pagan PERSIA around also. And in 691 CE/AD AL AQsa Caliphate Dome was Built in JERU!

REVEALation (opposite Secret): TODAY and For Most People: Pre-Apocalyptic Religion {Abrhamic and or Vedic Systems} are POiSON! Like Drunks, going Wild. This is what [i]WE (Apocalyptic-ON's) are up against (Pre Apocalyptic-Off's); their "Religio-Jealousy-Psychos's & Pre-Apocalyptic-SINdromes", not to mention, "Double/Triple Standards Psychos"s etc..

I think it is self-evident that the problem most of us non-muslims have is distinguishing so called "moderate muslims" from the terrorist variety. From the rhetoric it is actually impossible to separate them. When will we see legions of Imams coming out loudly and publicly decrying the bombers and criticising and ostracising those who encourage them? It hasn't happened yet, all the Imams do is complain about the West. As one who was caught up in the 7/7 London underground bombings I will continue to regard Islam as an evil threat to civilized society until I see some real EVIDENCE that it is not!

Let me try this again - the post entry system doesn't recognize italics tags...

"Visitors are not even allowed legally to bring in a Bible or any other religious texts or icons into Saudi Arabia."

While I object to that in principle, there are many other Muslim-majority countries where that is not the case. We shouldn't focus on Saudi Arabia to the exclusion of such countries where the governments are largely secular.

"For those in the West, it is a question of how wise it is to import a population whose religious ideas are at odds with secular government and have a demonstrated propensity to outbreed the locals."

That's almost exactly how people rationalized their opposition to immigration by Irish and Italian Catholics a century ago. That leads me to suspect that most of the hue and cry nationwide is really anti-Arab nativism, with a failure to distinguish between being Muslim and being Arab.

Visitors are not even allowed legally to bring in a Bible or any other religious texts or icons into Saudi Arabia.

While I object to that in principle, there are many other Muslim-majority countries where that is not the case. We shouldn't focus on Saudi Arabia to the exclusion of such countries where the governments are largely secular.

For those in the West, it is a question of how wise it is to import a population whose religious ideas are at odds with secular government and have a demonstrated propensity to outbreed the locals.

That's almost exactly how people rationalized their opposition to immigration by Irish and Italian Catholics a century ago. That leads me to suspect that most of the hue and cry is really anti-Arab nativism, with a failure to distinguish between being Muslim and being Arab.

Visitors are not even allowed legally to bring in a Bible or any other religious texts or icons into Saudi Arabia.

It isn't just a matter of a "church in Mecca" and it isn't about just Saudi Arabia. It is about how non Muslims are treated in most Muslim majority nations and how open their societies are to to competition in the arena of religious ideas.

For those in the West, it is a question of how wise it is to import a population whose religious ideas are at odds with secular government and have a demonstrated propensity to outbreed the locals.

The comparisons to the WW2 interment are valid because the questionable justification for putting the Japanese-Americans there (that they would rise up in hordes and attack America from within) is the same accusation being made against American Muslims. Yet we don't see millions of the Muslims here trying to copy the Fort Hood shooter. Since the shooter was of Palestinian descent, it's reasonable to speculate that his agenda may have been partly or even mostly political. We know from statements by Bin Laden that Al Qaeda's agenda is partly political. Again, it's easy for people of one religion to assume that the motivations of extremists from other religions are solely religious.

Ooooppss.

Please Excuse me mistaken Post. It was meant for Sam H.

But decent Muslims can register their protest against the Islamic apartheid in Mecca and Medina by boycotting the hajj pilgrimage until the apartheid ends officially and in practice.

I agree. I can imagine other Muslims saying that such a boycott would go against their religious beliefs. That would reminds me of some Christians who discriminate against gays and insist that it would go against their beliefs to do otherwise, although the two situations are not quite the same.

My larger point is that no religion is a monolithic entity, and the same holds for any denomination of a religion. Millions of Catholics use contraception and get divorced even though these contradict Church teaching. Some Christians and some atheists are fond of pointing to bloodthirsty passages in the Koran while failing to point out Leviticus has passages that are almost as appalling. These critics don't acknowledge that most Christians and Jews aren't slaughtering gays and adulterers, and most Muslims aren't slaughtering people from other religions. It's incredibly tempting for many to assume that it's only the members of other religions blindly follow dogma. I've been told repeatedly by members of different religions that most believers don't adhere to strict literal readings of their holy books.

1 of 2(a)

HARK; A great "Freudian-Slip Of Genuine Prophecy"; Sweet Sweet America needs less-Freedom, NOt more (YE/YO ALL ain't seen noth'n yet)!

This is the Reason why WE[i] keep getting bombed [i.e., the Pearl of Great Harbor calamity & Pearl of Great Manhattan calamity]. Soo Freedom in "U.S.A., U.S.A...." should, like when Uncle-Sam & Aunt-Liberty have to tighten their own Economic Belts, includes isolation in some cases if need be, tighten Freedom, and yes, loose Lips, their Security-Belts, so to spake'th the slip'th.!

SECRET: Opposite REVEALation & the TRUTH (opposite MYTH) THAT; In Secret, what The "ELDER'S of AL TAQIYAH" and their International "Religio Police" [from Ishlami-CENTER's of MECCA/RIYADH/TEHRAN..] and their Al Taqiyah ventriloquist Agents (like Immam king Feisal & his Immam Queen KHAN) are secretly/stealthly

Building a-Monument (Reversed Auschwitz like. a Secret un spkoken dedication, by moving closer to WTC, aka Ground-Zero) To Their 'Beloved' "911 Hijackers/Perps", aka "MAGNIFICENT 19(+? Martyrs, destoyers of WTC's) instead. AND

Because on "R.O.I." (Return On Investment} These "Agent's Of AL TAQiYAH" (Feisal/Khan & Ummah) will Become [iShlam-i/Esau-mi] TOURIST RICH" [post Fatal Attraction]" and is expected to break even in less than 5 Years.

1 of 2b

SUMMARY: 1) America Needs to Be Tighten on their National "Security-Belt", not only their Spending etc. AND

2) Ishlam-Ummah Is Building a Secret-Monument to their 'Beloved' MAGNIFICENT-10(+?), beliving that in the ishlami invoked Current Controversy's {mass Mosque Buildings in KAFIR America] AND

3) TOURISM [Ishlami Ummah Attraction, or a secret REMEMBRANCE] is big BIZ {Wind Fall} more for Ishlami's Residing in Sweet Sweet (never SOUR) Amerik or N.Y.C. et al than the Bloomberg Admin in NYC or its [KAFIR; non-Ishlami Ummah's] inhabitants there in/at!!!

PS: The International, not Only in Kafir U.S.A & in Kafir-Friendly's iSHLAMI//ESAUi Ummah (Community) here TODAY (The Apocalypse & Transition): that Instead of Abrahamic Judeo-Yahudi's (JU's) asking the Question, "WHY DOES THE WORLD HATE US?" that

ISHLAMI's (non-Kafirs) must instead, finally, ask "WHY DOES THE WORLD" suddenly HATE US?"

Vote: THEOCRACY & MONARCHY must be Destroyed off the Face of , NEBULA-BUILT, Holyi S.pace-S.hip Earth, aka S.S. GEOiD, S.S. GAiA, S.S. TELLUSng something; Because,

Then there will be No-More Use for Atomic-Bomb(S) or Threat from such; unlike today! "YES WE CAN!" (Note; this phrase is nothing to do with ye buddy,current Prez; B. H. OBAMA).
HARK; A great "Freudian-Slip Of Genuine Prophecy";

Sweet Sweet America needs less-Freedom, NOt more (YE/YO ALL ain't seen noth'n yet)!

This is the Reason why WE[i] keep getting bombed [i.e., the Pearl of Great Harbor calamity & Pearl of Great Manhattan calamity]. Soo Freedom in "U.S.A., U.S.A...." should, like when Uncle-Sam & Aunt-Liberty have to tighten their own Economic Belts, includes isolation in some cases if need be, tighten Freedom, and yes, loose Lips, their Security-Belts, so to spake'th the slip'th.! (1 of 2)

part 2 of 2

SECRET: Opposite REVEALation & the TRUTH (opposite MYTH) THAT;

In Secret, what The "ELDER'S of AL TAQIYAH" and their International "Religio Police" [from Ishlami-CENTER's of MECCA/RIYADH/TEHRAN..] and their Al Taqiyah ventriloquist Agents (like Immam king Feisal & his Immam Queen KHAN) are secretly/stealthly

Building a-Monument (Reversed Auschwitz like) To Their 'Beloved' "911 Hijackers/Perps", aka "MAGNIFICENT 19(+? Martyrs, destoyers of WTC's) instead. AND

Because on "R.O.I." (Return On Investment} These "Agent's Of AL TAQiYAH" (Feisal/Khan & Ummah) will Become [iShlam-i/Esau-mi] TOURIST RICH" [post Fatal Attraction]" and is expected to break even in less than 5 Years.

SUMMARY: 1) America Needs to Be Tighten on their National "Security-Belt", not only their Spending etc. AND

2) Ishlam-Ummah Is Building a Secret-Monument to their 'Beloved' MAGNIFICENT-10(+?), beliving that in the ishlami invoked Current Controversy's {mass Mosque Buildings in KAFIR America] AND

3) TOURISM [Ishlami Ummah Attraction, or a secret REMEMBRANCE] is big BIZ {Wind Fall} more for Ishlami's Residing in Sweet Sweet (never SOUR) Amerik or N.Y.C. et al than the Bloomberg Admin in NYC or its [KAFIR; non-Ishlami Ummah's] inhabitants there in/at!!!

PS: The International, not Only in Kafir U.S.A & in Kafir-Friendly's iSHLAMI//ESAUi Ummah (Community) here TODAY (The Apocalypse & Transition): that Instead of Abrahamic Judeo-Yahudi's (JU's) asking the Question, "WHY DOES THE WORLD HATE US?" that

ISHLAMI's must instead ask, "WHY DOES THE WORLD" HATE US Ishlami//Esaui UMMAH?

Vote: THEOCRACY & MONARCHY must be Destroyed off the Face of , NEBULA-BUILT, Holyi S.pace-S.hip Earth, aka S.S. GEOiD, S.S. GAiA, S.S. TELLUSng something; Because,

Then there will be No-More Use for Atomic-Bomb(S) or Threat from such; unlike today! "YES WE CAN!" (Note; this phrase is nothing to do with ye buddy,current Prez; B. H. OBAMA).

BEHOLD, the Great E-K-L-A-Ht-i-ON (Apocalyptic-On's) CURSE via OUR, not their, "LAWS-OF-N-A-T-U-R-E" {aka Our "CLAUSES" of Our UNiVERSE/CONSTITUTION}; on/at against them Evil 'Satanic-VersUS' crazed Ishlami Pakistan/Afghani's (Both are Secretly One Nation) ummah et al (includes Evil Chinko/Sino Commy-Ummah's). PS: YE/YO Apocalyptarian(s) ain't seen Nothin Yet; Watch What Happens soon soon to them Ishlami ARABou's at Mecca et al.

Please See: "LET Bokshish [Beggars of the 'Vanguard Of Islam'?] PAKISTAN EAT-URANiUM"

Compliments "J J": http://www.onwapo.com/

Eboo,

Once upon a time, Baseball was the national past time. When did we replace it with whining? Everybody is a victim of some great malign "majority". Listen to us howl. So easy and convenient that the consequences our personal failings can be blamed on the great unwashed around us whose victim we are and will remain.

BTW, the Moslems where I work and live are treated just like anybody else. They mostly went to the same schools, mostly drive the same cars, live in the same neighborhoods, make similar money, have families like anybody else. This is all as it should be. The victimization chic you purvey here contributes to a bunker mentality, which undermines trust in our good neighbors.

Another bad thing about this circus is that some Moslems in other countries naturally, but falsely, assume from the hoopla that we treat their brothers and sisters here as they treat Christians, Jews, and Atheists in their countries. The false, and hyperbolic, comparison of this discussion to internment camps in WW-II helps no one. Enough already.

Behold! A Great "iNTROVISION":

Carstonio

But decent Muslims can register their protest against the Islamic apartheid in Mecca and Medina by boycotting the hajj pilgrimage until the apartheid ends officially and in practice.

Boycotting the hajj is analogous to a decent white person boycotting a whites-only country club until the whites-only policy is ended and non-whites allowed into the club.

Decent Muslims may not be able to control the actions of the Saudi government but surely they can control their own actions.

And the $10 billion saved can be used for better purposes than wasting it on a trip to Mecca.

now if we could only get a church in Mecca...

That's irrelevant, not only because the monsters behind 9/11 don't represent Islam, but also because the conflict is not about Islam versus Christianity versus Islam. My understanding of Mecca is that it's run by the conservative Wahhabi sect. So that group, and not all of Islam, would deserve the blame for excluding non-Muslim houses of worship. I don't like that ban because it goes against the principle of religious freedom. But that principle makes no distinction between having a church in Mecca and having a house of worship there for any other non-Muslim religion.

Here are some facts about Mecca, Medina, Rome, Vatican and kaaba.

Mecca area : 325 sq miles
Medina:230 sq Miles
Rome: 500 sq miles

Vatican City: 0.17 sq miles

Kabba and surrounding mosque area: 0.56 sq miles

There are no mosques in Vatican City but several in Rome outside Vatican City.

No one is demanding that a church or any other non-Muslim house of worship be allowed in the Kabba area, AL Masjid Al Haram. Or inside Masjid Nabawi in Medina.

All we are asking is that, just as mosques are allowed in Rome, please stop the apartheid by allowing non-Muslims to:

1. Enter Mecca and Medina.

2. To build their houses of worship in Mecca and Medina but outside the AL Masjed Al Haram in Mecca and outside Masjed Nabawi in Medina.

3. To freely worship in all Muslim countries and allow them to preach their faiths to Muslims and allow Muslims to convert.

Until the three steps above are put in place Muslims should not do the hajj or even visit Saudi Arabia. They will save over 20 billion dollars that can be used for the welfare of Muslim children worldwide.

In 1399, the Mosque in Mecca including the kaaba caught fire and what was not destroyed in the fire (very little) was damaged by unseasonable heavy rain. Again the mosque was rebuilt over six years using marble and wood sourced from nearby mountains in the Hejaz region of current day Saudi Arabia. The Saudi government acknowledges 1570 as the earliest date for architectural features of the present Mosque. So the structures were not built by the mythological figure Abraham. Abraham never set foot inside Mecca.

The Koran doe not ban entry of non-Muslims into Mecca and Medina but only into the Masjid Haram in Mecca. By disobeying the Koran and preventing non-Muslims from enetring Mecca Muslims are making the city unholy.

Ayat 9;28

--O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowin

Same Arguments are over and over again repeated by same posters.

Vatican is not a City,only a small zone,but there are mosques in Rome and other Italy cities.
In Saudi Arabia,there is not only one non-islamic temple including Shia mosque in Jeddah,Damman,Riyadh,Taif where millions of Hindus,Westerners and Shia muslims work.

test~!

Test~!

test~!

What are you talking about..there are mosques in the US even after 911-the shoe bomber-the Christmas Day-bomber-FortHood
I think Americans have been very nice to a group of people who have killed thousands of us..now if we could only get a church in Mecca...

*********************************************

I believe American Muslims have been remarkable restrained despite the fact that their terrorist government has caused the death of 1 million muslims in its wars of revenge for 3000 americans...........now if we could only get a mosque in Vatican City~!

One day we will be as ashamed of the way American Muslims are viewed and treated in 2010 as we are of Japanese internment
=============
What are you talking about..there are mosques in the US even after 911-the shoe bomber-the Christmas Day-bomber-FortHood
I think Americans have been very nice to a group of people who have killed thousands of us..now if we could only get a church in Mecca...

"efforts to prevent American Muslims from living lives of full dignity and FREEDOM in this country?"

The point is that Islam doesn't offer FREEDOM to its own followers. Women are forced to wear a bags, people aren't allowed to leave the faith, they want to throw out the constitution and enforce sharia law as they are fighting for in Europe. They go to the U.N. and try to end freedom of speech so that its international crime to criticize them. You're so contradictory to say we need to allow this in the name of freedom --its utterly frightening and unfathomable!

I don't understand why the supposedly credible media like the WP entertains the clueless views of people. Comparing the Muslims to the Japanese in WW2 is so irresponsible its not appropriate to refer to this as journalism. They are stirring up the idiots and driving sane people elsewhere for the news. What are they thinking? America is turning more looney by the minute. We need Atheism, like real bad!

Eboo,
Read Sam Harris and see if you can pen anything close to what he is suggesting Rauf pens as an American. You think you can be honest? Why not tell where Sam is wrong and why have you not to date ever penned anything even remotely close to what Sam is suggesting?
***************************
"Like all decent people, I am horrified by much that goes on in the name of 'Islam,' and I consider it a duty of all moderate Muslims to recognize that many of the doctrines espoused in the Qur'an and hadith present some unique liabilities at this moment in history. Our traditional ideas about martyrdom, jihad, blasphemy, apostasy, and the status of women must be abandoned, as they are proving disastrous in the 21st century. Many of Islam's critics have fully justified concerns about the state of discourse in parts of the Muslim world--where it is a tissue of conspiracy theories, genocidal ravings regarding the Jews, and the most abject, triumphalist fantasies about conquering the world for the glory of Allah. While the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity also contain terrible passages, it has been many centuries since they truly informed the mainstream faith. Hence, we do not tend to see vast numbers of Jews and Christians calling for the murder of apostates today. This is not true of Islam, and there is simply no honest way of denying this shocking disparity. We are members of a faith community that appears more concerned about harmless cartoons than about the daily atrocities committed in its name--and no one suffers from this stupidity and barbarism more than our fellow Muslims. Islam must grow up. And Muslim moderates like ourselves must be the first to defend the rights of novelists, cartoonists, and public intellectuals to criticize all religious faiths, including our own."
*****************************

one day, I promise you, we will be as ashamed of the way American Muslims are viewed and treated in 2010 as we are of Japanese internment and Jim Crow.

Some of us are ashamed of it now. I hope I'm wrong when I predict that within five years, America will have interment camps for its Muslims citizens. Or worse, the official purpose will be to intern Muslims, but in practice they will be for anyone who looks Arabic.

If that sounds conspiratorial, remember that German-Americans and Italian-Americans did not face interment during WW2 for the sole reason that they were white.

Isn't it odd that EP is so intent on the arc of America and her offering of freedom? Wouldn't a rational person look at data and say that the American arc of freedom will eventually rain down on the rest of the world when religious intolerance will yield and Secular ideals will render religious power seekers effete?

Only an irrational, my way is the only way, thinker could propose to the US tht her arc of freedom will be abashed by her progress and free expression of wishes not to support a radical religious group. He is here because of that arc, and he could not find it from his acenstral lands. Like so many before us, the immigrants of the US came here because that arc was missing, missing due to the religious intolerance in the islamic middle east, the christian Africa, the christian Europe, the atheist China, and the hindu India.

Lady liberty, as steel and as metaphor, was a gift from France that has rested in the US as a beacon to all. Though we may have failed her in our history at times, her light shines still as the brightest light of liberty in the world (OK sure, some less demographically diverse countries are officially freer).

No EP, if the world does not disclaim the power of radical (moderate), illeberal islam in this century, then America will look back at this time in history and wonder why we didn't try harder to stop it, why we didn't shout down the false claims of false prophets of peace. Ilsamic hegemony is as much an evil as christian hegemony. Islamic colonialism, and her outposts of so called moderation, are just the underpinnings of another Meccan, Turkish, Bangledeshi, Pakistani, Sudanese, Indian, operation of ethnic cleansing. America will only be able to remember if she fights; for having lost the battle, our posterity will decide not what is legitimate expresssion of speach, rather how to kill the apostate having discovered the true meaning of the constitution.

hariaum

Balstrome wrote:"That I think is a rational argument why Islam is a danger, and it is nowhere near the mindless hate of that white girl in Little Rock, 1957. If you had to ask that girl to define why she had that attitude, do you really think that she could present a valid rational reason for her racism?"
Yes, I believe that she had a reason that was very valid to her.
I think that there are three groups of people. One, those who are committed to their faith, but don't demand that others share it. Two, I believe this so you have to believe it too. My standards should be your standards. Three, dude, I really don't are. Whatever.
The Islamic Cultural Center is being build on privately owned land and it has met all of the city codes. Therefore, yes, it should be built.
Those who are this hysterical eight years after their loved ones were murdered should be seeking psychiatric care. The World Trade Center was a place of business where people from all faiths and nations worked and died. It is not sacred or holy ground.

Let's not confuse fear of terrorism with hatred towards Muslims. It is ignorant to label all Muslims terrorists. Let's not forget that Jews, Christians, & other religious groups have used terrorism to make political gains too.

Mr. Patel, please do not make this false equivalency between the muslim experience in the US with that of the Blacks or the Japanese during WWII, or that of Chinese immigrant on railroads. The amount of discrimination that may have been experienced by a muslim in the US has never been a more than a fraction of what a muslims would experience in their own native countries. This may be due to different sect of islam one follows being different from the locally dominant one. So this blatant attempt to exploit the mosque situation is way out of bounds.

Now coming to the mosque issue. I have known several times minority religion shrines had not been permitted in various localities in this country for various reasons. few of the reasons sometimes being bigotry, ignorance. When this happened the other minority groups did not go off on this media blitzkrieg. The groups had moved on and found another place to build their places of worship. Where were you, Imam and his lovely wife Ms. Khan in voicing your opposition. In case of this mosque, the Imam & his wife have been in this country long enough, and old enough to anticipate the reaction for their controversial project. So they should have gone about it in a lower profile manner. Instead they went about it in a very high profile manner expecting the opposition and to exploit the situation for publicity and to sully the American reputation. How else to conclude their actions. NYC is home for over a hundred mosques. So how can you dare to put blight on the US of A, which you claim to be part of. If they did not then they definitely were remiss in doing their homework.

Your article also begs the question of you and the Imam & his lovely wife, what have you done in the OIC countries, where apparently the Imam has great influence, to promote more tolerance towards other religions, or even different sects within Islam. Like tolerance for Shia in Saudi or Sunni in Iran, even. Your article, this one, like most others are always self serving to your cause, which is your beloved islam. The few you write that are not so self serving, I dare you to send them to one of the OIC newspapers, and see the vitriol you will face. Then compare it with the criticisms you get in WAPO. So enough already with your inane articles.

It was never, I think about human Muslims, but about a religion that would allow the thinking which followers of it could use to mentally prepare themselves to do the acts that they did.

That I think is a rational argument why Islam is a danger, and it is nowhere near the mindless hate of that white girl in Little Rock, 1957. If you had to ask that girl to define why she had that attitude, do you really think that she could present a valid rational reason for her racism?

As others have said, there is no such thing as Islamaphobia, because firstly a phobia is an irrational fear of a thing, and the results of Islamic produce 9/11 and 7/7 are very real fears.

If Islam was to reform or change and remove the parts that made such acts possible and valid, then maybe there is a chance to peace. This should never be forgotten, that it was the mindset of the hijackers that allowed them to do what they did. Their belief in their reality gave them the strength to do these things.

For it to never happen again, that belief needs to change.

Did you know that just 10 years ago you could take scissors, shampoo and wear shoes onto an airplane?

We lost those rights in three separate incidents, whose only common element was Islam.

Could it be that Americans only know from Muslims who are suicide bombers, who never speak as Americans first Muslim second, who dance in the streets on September 11th, who do nothing to assimilate to this country? Why not try and see it through different eyes. I don't pity Muslims, I question their intentions and wonder why they are so blind to our fears and concerns. On my street is a mosque. They won't let anyone in, even to tell them that their double parked cabs are blocking our cars from moving. If you're looking for fairness, then try and reach out instead of crying about your world position.