The Hindu fascists are against everything the secular, pluralistic democracy India stands for and the fathers of the Indian nation fought for. Even in the days leading up to independence, RSS, the mother of Sangh Parivar, acted on its own, operating a militant wing as an integral part of their service wing. It is to be remembered that Nazi ideals were taking shape in Germany at about the same time as RSS was established in India. Nazis came into power in 1933, RSS in India was established in 1925.

Understandably RSS and its children, BJP, VHP, Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal etc, are against the Nehru/Gandhi family who belong to the group of the founding fathers. Although BJP and the other organizations of Sangh Parivar are outspokenly against everything the National Congress Party stands for, they mention only the Communist Party on an international blog such as this, in order to create a false impression of speaking on behalf of all non-Communist Hindus in India. The mainstream Hindu population is against the fascist ideals of Hindutva. They recognize it as a political party with a self serving agenda. The mainstream and major Congress Party is its main rival, not the communists (a democratically elected party which has a significant role only in two states of India, where they alternate with the Congress Party in forming the state government).

The difference between Nazi Germans and Hindu fascists is that Germans did not have groups operating from outside Germany to fund and support their ideals within Germany. Germans didn't submit to any white masters, as Hindu fascists living in Western countries tend to do. Hindu fascists reserve their hatred and violence only towards non-Hindu Indians and they are obedient to their white Christian masters in the West, although they hate Indian Christians and persecute them in India.

It took a lot of hard work to establish a Nazi regime in Germany and it took even more work to root out the Nazi mentality among Germans.

Hindu fascism is no less dangerous and it is going to take a lot of hard work to root it out. Hindu fascists, with all their wealth, power and political cunning, should no more be looked upon with respect and awe than Nazi Germans were.

BJP is an unconstitutional political party because it runs on a fascis Hindu platform and propagates overt discrimination against non-Hindu minorities following religions not born on India soil, in a secular democracy.

Anyone who is really interested in Hindu fascism should read the history of RSS. All the other organizations are offshoots of RSS, created to serve different purposes. They form a family called Sangh Parivar. VHP, BJP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc are some of the members of the family. They also have a women's wing. They have policy to start any group under different names to serve their purpose. It will be noted with clarity that RSS always remained independent of mainstream political movement. They always operated their parallel military wing, which was banned at least three times because of illegal violence. Hatred for Muslims and reconverting non-Hindus back to Hinduism by force and using force to prevent conversion is part of their OFFICIAL policy. With BJP becoming a mainstream party, Hindu fascism has taken a dangerous turn. It is akin to Nazis coming into power in some states of Germany. Violence against minority groups is always reported from states where BJP is in power. They are trying to spread the violence to all states with intense indoctrination of their RSS recruits and VHP minions.

Ideology of RSS which is the mother of other organizations - BJP, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc.***
"It redounds to the foresight of Dr. Keshav Baliram Hedgewar (1889 - 1940) that he anticipated the need for strengthening the foundations of the Hindu society and for preparing it for challenges on social, economic, cultural, religious, philosophical and political planes...What was needed was a sufficiently strong instrumentality for carrying that process onward.
This instrumentality was created and bequeathed to the nation by Dr. Hedgewar in the form of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh which he, after years of deliberate and patient preparation, founded at Nagpur on 27th Septem- ber, Vijayadashami Day of 1925.***
" Dr. Hedgewar said often, "Even if the British leave, unless the Hindus are organised as a powerful nation, where is the guarantee that we shall be able to protect our freedom?" His words have proved to be prophetic. Conjointly with Independence, parts of Punjab, Bengal, Sindh and the frontier-areas were sundered from Bharat; and, four and a half decades after the nation's attaining freedom, Kashmir remains a thorn in the flesh.
Continuous efforts have been there to make Assam a Muslim- majority province. Likewise, no-holds-barred efforts to proselytize by Christian missions continue unabated. Even armed revolt has been engineered (e.g., in Nagaland) to carve out independent Christian provinces. Such activities receive ready support and unlimited funds from foreign countries and agencies keenly interested in destabilizing Bharat for their own ends.
Sangh's alone has been the voice of genuine patriotic concern amidst the cacophanous, politically inspired shibboleths of undefined secularism, etc.
Even at the inception, the Sangh was viewed by its founder not as a sectoral activity or movement, but as a dynamic power-house energising every field of national activity."

Articles on Hindu fascism should be written with the following subtitles:

How Hindu fascism compares with Nazi ideology and how it differs from Nazi ideology.

How Hindu fascism compares with militant Islam and Muslim fascism in some countries which have Muslim majority.

How Hindu fascists living in Christian cultures of the West, supporting Hindu fascism in India are hypocrites and seek to destroy India from within.

Truth_Prevails:

The Hindu fascists living in the US are not just hypocrites of the highest order because they propagate a hate philosophy by remote control in India, while living in total freedom and luxury in a Christian culture in the US, they are also seeking to destroy India from within by sowing hatred and division among Indians: Hindus against Muslims, Hindus against Christians.

It is no different from the Islamic fascism found in some Muslim countries, where non-Muslim minorities are persecuted.

Truth_Prevails:

I'm sure the militant Vaishya Raj is paying some scholars loads of money to write fiction and then investing loads of money to market it as Indian history. Now with Muslims rewriting their history and Hindu fascists rewriting Indian history, all we will soon have is a library of fairy tales relating to India.

Truth_Prevails:

Most English language news coverage of India is extremely biased pretty much along the lines of what you are writing. I look for unbiased coverage based on facts and not based on vested interest. In my postings I have pointed out a number of instances that contradict many of your positions.

I am glad to note that you consider Wikipedia biased, which may be true. But so are many of the sources that you mention. Most so called scholars also have to satisfy their pay masters and/or organizational politics. Journalism, philosophy and politics are not as objective like scientific or mathematical evidence, which can be independently verified.

December 24, 2008 11:50 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If Indian media has not turned into the propaganda machine of Hindu fascists, then it is proof secular democracy in India is not yet dead. But if Hindu fascism continues to gain power with the help of its political wing, BJP and its powerful non-resident backers from the US, working through various Hindu fascist organization under all sorts of cover, India shall once again become an oppressive nation meant only for a few feudal lords, who now go under the name of businessmen and industrialists. India shall then become the militant Vaishya Raj, with strings being pulled from the background by the higher castes and their fascist ideology.

The so called contradictions you have posted is standard fare that can be read on all Hindu fascist communication. At the rate Hinduism is being explained by Hindu fascists, it shall become completely useless as a religion. At the rate Indian history is being rewritten by Hindu fascists, Indian history will have to be read like Greek mythology - fanciful and completely devoid of any reliable fact.

Truth_Prevails:

Like many of your posts indicate, you seem to jump quickly to conclusions and they are mostly one sided. Just because I am defending BJP due to the gross mischaracterization by you and others on this blog, does not make me a BJP supporter/member. I am an issue based person and have no political affiliation. I was excited with Indian National COngress in the early nineties when Narasimha Rao was the prime minister (PM). He is the best PM India has had and he opened up the Indian economy. It hurts to see that Congress has now been hijacked by the Gandhi/Nehru dynasty and figures like Rao are not even remembered nowadays.

December 24, 2008 11:50 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sathyam Jayate = Truth Prevails, borrowed from Sathyam Eva Jayathe on the Indian national emblem, IS a *BJP trade mark.* Sure you are "merely defending" BJP and defending it with all the biased zeal of a BJP member, because you are an issues person, and in this case your "issue" is to defend BJP. Your love for the National Congress reminds me of a video of a talk given by a young man to a group of young Muslim students. The young man claimed he was fed up with RSS and was seriously studying Islam to convert to the religion. He talked about how he was encouraged to study Islam and mentored by a Christian professor, who had plenty of books on Islam. He went on to say how the Christian professor kept his interest in Islam somewhat a secret because he was afraid of being rejected by his Christian community. The truth of the matter is that the Christian professor is a well known mouth piece of the RSS, and was responsible for writing fictional Indian history in the service of Hindutva. Yet this young RSS member was pretending to be a convert to Islam among gullible Muslim students!

Truth_Prevails:

Whether it is the official position of IMF or not is a relatively unimportant issue - the fact is that a western author did research presumably on IMF payroll, so there is little reason to doubt the figures.
December 24, 2008 11:12 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++

You are free to believe the statistics in the article you cited, even if it is blatantly false because it serves your agenda. If it had been officially accepted by IMF, I would find enough original sources from India to lodge an official complaint with IMF.

truth_prevails:

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1

I read your postings about AWAAZ - SOUTH ASIA.

While the violence in Orissa is deplorable, AWAAZ's coverage like others you mentioned earlier is one-sided. In any conflict both sides should be covered properly. The only point where there is agreement is that there should be unbiased investigation of Laxmananada Saraswati's murder. In fact the clear bias in AWAAZ's coverage is reflected by the fact that it mentions Laxmanananda Saraswati as a militant Hindu religious leader. All accounts I have read on the situation does not point to any such tendency by this religious leader. If Christians can perform humanitarian work, so can Hindu organizations. If Hindu organizations are labeled militant while Christians are not, then it is clearly biased and adding more fuel to the fire rather than extinguishing it.

December 24, 2008 10:47 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Truth_Prevails:

The opinions you have expressed in this thread is pretty standard fare of a sophisticated Hindu fascist. It may fool the uninformed, but not those who are keeping track of facts on the ground from non-Hindutva sources. ***
Hindutva, with its many different member organizations - VHP (spin factory), BJP (political arm), RSS, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena et al (henchmen), Ekal Vidyalaya (school to churn out Hindu fascists who will take control of India and turn it into a Nazi Germany version)- as a fascist political movement masquerading as religion is after all is less than a hundred years old. Nobody has forgotten that Godse, the Hindu fanatic who assassinated Mahatma Gandhi, was an RSS member, referred conveniently as ex-RSS to save the face of the RSS organization (which has been banned at least three times in India).***
Maoists claimed responsibility for the murder. Yet Hindu fascists attacked defenseless Christians, killing, burning houses and churches, driving thousands out of their homes. Not a single Hindu fascist of the Hindutva/VHP/BJP/RSS/Shiv Sena/Bajrang Dal et al Sangh Parivar family has expressed any regret or remorse.***
It is not an understatement to claim that the Hindu leader had been spreading toxic ideas and using Hindu fascist henchmen on his behalf to achieve his ends. Every single Indian knows he was a zealous leader of the VHP movement.

Anyone who has taken the time to inform themselves about the activities of Hindutva and their Sangh Parivar (BJP, VHP, RSS, Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal) knows that there is sinister political movement afoot that is gaining more mainstream acceptance because of the propaganda work done and the influence of the political arm it has created to achieve its ends. You give affiliations away by describing the Hindu fascist movement as harmless when there has been plenty of proven communal violence that can be traced directly to them.

Truth_Prevails:

The criticism of Sonal Shah's appointment, which by the way is the topic of this essay, is based on what was reported about her political affiliations - VHP of America being a branch of VHP in India (referred to as Bharat in the American website), her parents' affiliation to RSS, both in India and in the US where RSS goes by a different name, and Ekal Vidyalaya which teaches Hindu fascist ideas - by Vijay Prashad, who is the George and Martha Kellner Chair of South Asian History and Director of International Studies at Trinity College, Hartford, CT. His new book is The Darker Nations: A People's History of the Third World, New York: The New Press, 2007.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes
". . . Btw, I wrote that myself, and I'm NOT a Marxist source. Anyway, it should also be clear to you as a BJP supporter/member, that BJP has mainstream opposition from the Congress Party, which is left of center, not the Marxists. . . . "
=================================

Like many of your posts indicate, you seem to jump quickly to conclusions and they are mostly one sided. Just because I am defending BJP due to the gross mischaracterization by you and others on this blog, does not make me a BJP supporter/member. I am an issue based person and have no political affiliation. I was excited with Indian National COngress in the early nineties when Narasimha Rao was the prime minister (PM). He is the best PM India has had and he opened up the Indian economy. It hurts to see that Congress has now been hijacked by the Gandhi/Nehru dynasty and figures like Rao are not even remembered nowadays.

Most English language news coverage of India is extremely biased pretty much along the lines of what you are writing. I look for unbiased coverage based on facts and not based on vested interest. In my postings I have pointed out a number of instances that contradict many of your positions.

I am glad to note that you consider Wikipedia biased, which may be true. But so are many of the sources that you mention. Most so called scholars also have to satisfy their pay masters and/or organizational politics. Journalism, philosophy and politics are not as objective like scientific or mathematical evidence, which can be independently verified.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes
"Disclaimer by IMF:
This Working Paper should not be reported as representing the views of the IMF."
=====================================
Whether it is the official position of IMF or not is a relatively unimportant issue - the fact is that a western author did research presumably on IMF payroll, so there is little reason to doubt the figures.
Anyway even if one were to use your reference
http://www.ibef.org/states/westbengal.aspx
you can see that the state of Uttar Pradesh (UP) is ranked second in terms of the size of its economy. Anyone who understands India would know that UP is a relatively poor and backward state but still has the second largest economy. It is purely because of its gigantic population base. The same applies to West Bengal as well.

By extension the same applies to India as well because of its top ten GDP. Does this mean India is a rich and developed nation? NO! The GDP may be high because of huge population but per capita income is low, which is a much more important statistic.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1

I read your postings about AWAAZ - SOUTH ASIA.

While the violence in Orissa is deplorable, AWAAZ's coverage like others you mentioned earlier is one-sided. In any conflict both sides should be covered properly. The only point where there is agreement is that there should be unbiased investigation of Laxmananada Saraswati's murder. In fact the clear bias in AWAAZ's coverage is reflected by the fact that it mentions Laxmanananda Saraswati as a militant Hindu religious leader. All accounts I have read on the situation does not point to any such tendency by this religious leader. If Christians can perform humanitarian work, so can Hindu organizations. If Hindu organizations are labeled militant while Christians are not, then it is clearly biased and adding more fuel to the fire rather than extinguishing it.

The Bookrags entry on Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), which lists "SEWA" as one of its service arms.

http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Vishva_Hindu_Parishad

For reflection by think tanks: Remember how the idea of German National Socialists, NAZI, referred to an Aryan race superiority? India is where the Aryan race resides in its most fundamental form. Is VHP & Co reinventing an Indian version of Nazi ideals? It is a concern that is not easily dismissed. Although Hitler's Mein Kampf is banned in Germany, it is easily available in India in an extremely cheap edition.

Here another reflection on Hindu fascism:

Brass Tacks Policy Paper -

Saffron Sarkar Raj - India is headed towards Hindu Talibanization and Fascist Hindu Violence

http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/images/BrassTacks_Policy_Paper_Saffron_Raj--Hindu_Terrorism.pdf

Truth_Prevails:

On a parting note, truth in India can prevail, as the founding fathers of the nation envisaged it, only when Hindu fascism is dismantled completely as Nazism once was. There is no compromise with fascism, no matter what name is assumes, no matter what color uniform it wears. Using orange, the color used by Hindu sannyasis, who forsook the world in order to devote their whole life to realize God in their lives, is deceptive and misleading.

There are many good ways of doing non-corrupt and efficient politics in India. Militant Hindu fascism, based on a distorted and sinister take of Hinduism, which excludes its own minorities, is not one of them. Maybe the ignorant Indian masses do not understand militant fascism, but it is not a new phenomena for the rest of the world.

Who the hell is this Eboo Patel? Does he realise, despite his backing of Sonal Shah, the vast majority of India's Muslims (approx 99.999%) would object to a former member of the VHP being in the US cabinet? The VHP has been involved in almost all the worst anti-Muslim and anti-Christian violence in India since Independence.

Would a former member of the KKK be allowed to serve in the US cabinet today? I doubt it. Likewise, a former member of a Hindu supremacist deserves the same kind of treatment.

From the Indian media
BJP in a quandary with temple and terror cards

By Amulya Ganguli (a political analyst): The Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) cosy world of emotion-driven politics has been turned upside down by the Mumbai tragedy.
FROM THE LATE 1990S THE BJP HAS USED ULTRA-NATIONALIST POSTURES TO GARNER VOTES.These ranged from the movement to "liberate" the mythical birthplace of Lord Ram in Ayodhya to the pillorying of the Congress for being soft on terror.
The Ramjanmabhoomi agitation led to the demolition of the Babri mosque in Ayodhya and catapulted the BJP to power in the mid-1990s...
The results of the latest round of elections, however, have shown that this argument is losing its electoral potency.
NOT ONLY HAS IT LOST WHAT IS CONSIDERED A SUREFIRE PLOY TO GARNER VOTES WITH ITS XENOPHOBIC PROPAGANDA, some are wondering whether it has lost touch with the younger generation as well.

NOT ONLY IS IT STILL BEING SEEN AS A PRO-HINDU PARTY, THE ATTACKS ON CHRISTIANS IN ORISSA, WHERE IT IS IN POWER, SHOWED THAT IT HAS LITTLE CONTROL OVER THE RABID ELEMENTS IN THE PARTY AND IN ITS FRATERNAL ALLIES LIKE THE VISHWA HINDU PARISHAD (VHP) AND BAJRANG DAL.

True, the BJP won in the two states of Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh. But these victories were based on the non-controversial and pro-development images of their chief ministers, Shivraj Singh Chouhan and Raman Singh. That the two leaders eschewed the Hindutva-oriented approach of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the BJP's mentor in the saffron brotherhood, showed they have understood that such appeals to atavistic sentiments are no longer effective.
The defeat of the former Madhya Pradesh chief minister, Uma Bharati, known for her fiery pro-Hindu rhetoric, also demonstrated that the voters were turning away from crude sectarianism...
The BJP's problem is that if it dumps Hindutva and switches to a development-oriented approach, it will earn the wrath of the RSS and the VHP for opportunistically abandoning the Hindu agenda. And if it does not lay too much emphasis on terror, the party will be accused of being as "pseudo-secular" as the Congress. This phrase, coined by Advani during the temple agitation, will come back to haunt him.
But that's not all. The apparent uselessness of its two emotive planks - temple and terrorism - will mean that the BJP will have to reinvent itself in view of the failure of the political ploys which guided it for the last two decades.
The BJP had discarded its credo of Gandhian socialism in favour of the temple agenda in the early 1990s. Now, it has to look for a new slogan.

A militant fascist Hindu is not only anti-Indian but also anti-Hindu.

There are many ways of being a proud Indian and proud of its multi-religious heritage. Being a fascist Hindu is about being anti-Hindu because Hinduism is about acceptance of worship of one God by different names.

Ramakrishna Mission is the organization that was founded by Swami Vivekananda (links from Kolkota, the birthplace of Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda, who was the disciple of Sri Ramakrishna):

http://www.sriramakrishna.org/x-institute.asp?Page=900

http://www.ramakrishna.org/rmk_ordr.htm

Reading the goals of Sri Ramakrishna Mission and its work should be proof that it is contrary to everything the BJP and VHP stand for.

As for the saffron gang, it is all only about money and political power. A distorted version of Hinduism is merely a tool.

Whether or not BJP and their local supporters will get support as part of US foreign policy will depend on whether BJP is good for American business and American economy.

I wish to leave the discussion at this stage with the advice to seek information about India from several reliable Indian sources and non-Indian sources on India (remembering India was a British colony for 200 years and there is rich academic write ups about various aspects of India; the British know India much better than Americans do). Several mainstream Indian media should also be read for a comprehensive take on the Indian situation from an Indian perspective.

The strong support for the fascist Hindu party BJP by some Non-Resident Indians (NRI) and Persons of Indian Origin (POI), under cover of Vishwa Hindu Parishad, is based on personal materialistic gain. A political agenda that supports the rich against the poor and discriminates against the non-Hindu Indian.

If this document is supposed to make a case for a BJP state government:
--How did the Kerala and West Bengal have economic success at all without help from BJP?
--The Congress Party and democratically elected communist party has ruled in turns and BJP has never been a serious presence in these states, although they are now trying very hard to sell Hindutva spin along with very own invented brand of Hindu ideology to get recruits.

How reliable is the data provided in this report? The literacy rate of Kerala has been put at 71%, when it is a well known fact that the literacy of Kerala which has always been the highest in India, has for at least for three decades comparable to Western countries at 91%! Kerala also has the highest life expectancy and the lowest infant mortality rate, reflecting a very well run health care system. A talk of the "Kerala model" has been around for several years: a third world country, with comparative poverty when compared to the rest of India, but an egalitarian one, with literacy rates, life expectancy and infant mortality rates comparable to Western countries.
In West Bengal, because fair compensation was not offered to the poor when their land was to be taken over for private industry, the communist ruled state could not violate the rights of the poor. Whereas in Gujrat, an impractical dam project was proposed and the land of the poor was taken over without adequate compensation or resettlement. The dam project was abandoned and the land leased to small businesses and industrialists by the right wing BJP, which seeks to "help" the rich at the cost of the poor in order to improve the economy of the state.

Post #103
Comments about document referred to by Truth_Prevails:

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2006/wp06103.pdf

Disclaimer by IMF:

This Working Paper should not be reported as representing the views of the IMF.
The views expressed in this Working Paper are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent those of the IMF or IMF policy. Working Papers describe research in progress by the author(s) and are published to elicit comments and to further debate.

Acknowledgment by author:

The author would like to thank Tim Besley, Saumitra Choudhuri, and Ratna Sahay for sharing
their data on state-level indicators in India, as well as Ranjit Bannerji, Conor Healy,
Jerry Schiff, Ananthakrishnan Prasad, and Axel Schimmelpfennig for their excellent feedback.

truth_prevails:

West Bengal used to be one of the most prosperous state and now it is in a downward trend because of hostility to business under Communist (and neglect under occasional Congress) rule. High population base and high starting GDP gives misleading indicators. Per capita income and trend are better indicators.
See e.g. International Monetary Fund report by Catriona Purfield 2006 titled "Mind the Gap—Is Economic Growth in India Leaving Some States Behind?"
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2006/wp06103.pdf

Table 1 of the report indicates that West Bengal fell from #8 to #10 in income rank, and Kerala (another Communist ruled state) fell from #4 to #7 from 1970's to 1990's.

December 16, 2008 11:42 AM

***********************

Post #100 was addressed to Truth_Prevails.

Don't bother to quote the Wikipedia as an authoritative source. Everybody knows anyone can write an article in the Wikipedia and anyone can edit it. Therefore articles without a grain of truth in it may be found. Since I have read several, on topics about which I'm quite familiar from really authoritative sources, I do not rely on Wikipedia anymore. I am merely encouraged to look up the original sources, if they are provided.
According to the Indian Constitution, there is separation of religion and state and the government accepts as valid the religious practices of different religious communities. Nevertheless certain practices have been explicitly banned legally because of violation of human rights and equality. For example, Sati, burning of widows, once prevalent among Hindus in certain areas of India, is one of them. Although dowry has been legally banned, it is still widely practiced among Hindus and Christians alike. Dowry was meant to be compensation for lack of inheritance rights to father's property under Hindu law. But the law has since been changed to include daughters in inheritance. Nevertheless the practice of demanding dowries by bridegrooms and their families continue. Among Muslims, it is the groom who pays the dowry, in contrast to the practice among Hindus and Christian converts who have always followed Hindu customs. Christians and Muslims do permit marriage of widows, but Hindus don't. Muslims permit divorce, but Christians and Hindus don't. But divorce is legal according to Indian law.
The secular law enabled non-Hindus to practice their social customs without having the strictly Hindu customs like widow burning, not permitting widows to remarry etc imposed on them.

Truth_Prevails:

BJP: It is for a Uniform Common Civil Code, which create only one personal and civil law code for Hindus, Muslims and Christians, who currently enjoy the privilege of having law codes tailored to their religious culture over personal and family matters. In the minds of BJP supporters, this system creates a sense of division in the country between religious communities.
(Source: http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party)
Congress: In 1985, the Supreme Court of India ruled in favour of Muslim divorcee Shah Bano, declaring that her husband should give her alimony. Muslim fundamentalists in India treated it as an encroachment in Muslim Personal Law and protested against it. Congress Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi agreed to their demands. In 1986, the Congress party, which had an absolute majority in Parliament at the time, passed an act that nullified the Supreme Court's judgement in the Shah Bano case. (Source: http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Gandhi)
So, which party is secular and constitutional, and which one is not. Things are not that black and white as your tirade against BJP seems to indicate - right? The problems are complex and cannot be sorted out that easily - hopefully with time, things will become better in India through more dialog and compromise.

December 16, 2008 12:21 PM

*****************************

In the US, the equivalent of the Indian Congress Party is the left of center Democrats. BJP is an extreme right wing party, an equivalent of which does not exist in the US because it would be considered unconstitutional.

Anyone who cares to take the time to read the posts of two US based BJP supporters on this forum, Deb Chatterjee and Jai Kosla, would understand why. Their alleged constant refrain has been that Indian Muslims and Indian Christians are foreigners who should either convert to Hinduism or leave India. They also disclosed the intent to declare India a Hindu nation on the slightest pretext (give independence to Kashmir and declare India a Hindu country immediately!). As per the officially stated goals of BJP they are staunchly against what they call the "licence-permit-quota Raj" and would roll back the secular constitution which has provided a means to uplift the vast majority of desperately poor and downtrodden masses by reserving places in educational institutions and government jobs for them.

truth_prevails:

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes:
"The Bharatiya Janatha Party (BJP), on the other hand is an extreme right, theocratic-Nationalist party (hence unconstitutional in a secular democracy), which has exploited and manipulated Hinduism for its own ends. It is actively against what it calls, the "licence-permit-quota-Raj." In other words it is against the measures worked into the constitution to help the poor and disadvantaged. It believes in success of the rich to help the economy. The other unconstitutional aspect of the party is that it is against non-Hindu minorities, and actively propagates violence and intimidation by proxy through its henchmen members of the "family" (called Sangh Parivar; Sangh = community, Parivar = family)."
=============================
Whichever Marxist/left wing source you got it from is propagating blatant lies. Check Wikipedia are other sources for a more balanced description

December 16, 2008 10:56 AM

*********************************

So, anyone who criticizes BJP and their henchmen are Marxist? You use the term Marxist because it plays well to a US audience who associate the word Marxist with USSR. Sorry, to disappoint you. I do not belong to any political party. You should know better as an Indian. Real idealists keep out of politics so that they can offer an unbiased opinion without trying to be politically correct. Hence my username, Politically INcorrect.

Btw, I wrote that myself, and I'm NOT a Marxist source. Anyway, it should also be clear to you as a BJP supporter/member, that BJP has mainstream opposition from the Congress Party, which is left of center, not the Marxists. West Bengal and Kerala are the only two states where democratically elected communist party has any real say. The Maoists, which follow the Lenin-Marxist-Maoist ideology, whose members killed the Hindu Brahmin who propagated a violent form of Hinduism, do not belong to the political mainstream at all. They do not stand for elections at all, and they do not believe in democracy. They have nothing to do with any religion or democratic political process. The communist parties in West Bengal and Kerala on the other hand are democratic left wing parties (the name is somewhat misleading if one associates it with communism in USSR and China) and have idealistic Hindus, including many Brahmins, in their ranks.

Indian media that covers Indian news from an Indian perspective:

The Hindu
The Indian Express
The Times of India etc

truth_prevails:

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes:
". . . .Now, the supposedly constitutionally correct BJP still excludes Muslims and Christians in their definition of Indians . . . "
===================================

Blatant lies . . . please quote your sources!!
Otherwise your views will not have any weight, and will be equivalent to trash talking!!!

December 17, 2008 10:27 AM

****************

Anyone who is REALLY interest in peace, justice and human rights can read the material provided by BJP as a political party, cover all the Indian (non-Communist) media reports covering the years as the party was formed (it is a new party) and as it developed. Read about the activity of Vishwa Hindu Parishad, which is the ideological and intellectual arm, with branches in the UK and US. What are saffron robed Hindus doing with politics? Saffron is color chosen by Hindu sannyasis. It denotes renounciation of the world. It is not about indulging in this worldly power and money politics and whipping up communal violence against other religious groups.

To imply that the Sangh Parivar (Sangh = community, Parivar = Family) organizations reflects the ideal of Swami Vivekandananda for India is a terrible insult to Vivekananda and the order of Hindu monks (involved in selfLESS NONpolitical work, preaching a universal ideology) he founded which goes by the name, Ramakrishna Mutt, in the name of his Guru, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Vivekananda taught that all paths lead to the same God and therefore all religions are equal.

Members of Sangh Parivar:

Political wing, BJP = Bharatiya (Bharat = India) Janata ( = People) Party,

Viswa (World) Hindu Parishad (Council) - the ideological and intellectual arm, providing cultural and educational bases, along with funds collected in the name of helping all but providing help only to their own, including propagating their own ideals to their own,(unofficially providing undercover spin and direction for its political and paramilitant wing),

militant wings which appear on the surface to be operating independently but are acting on the instructions of the intellectual masters, VHP -

Bhajrang Dal, RSS, Shiv Sena and break away faction MNS.

To imply that the Sangh Parivar (Sangh = community, Parivar = Family) organizations:

Political wing, BJP = Bharatiya (Bharat = India) Janata ( = People) Party,

Viswa (World) Hindu Parishad (Council) - the ideological and intellectual arm (providing clever spin for militant an ),

Swami Vivekananda's Quote of the Day 17 December 2008 (Vedanta Network - Ramakrishna Vedanta Society of Boston)

Where God is, there is no other. Where the world is, there is no God. These two will never unite. Like light and darkness. That is what I have understood from Christianity and the life of Jesus. Isn’t that also Buddhism? Isn’t that Hinduism? Isn’t that Islam? Isn’t that the teaching of all the great sages and teachers?

http://www.vivekananda.org/

truth_prevails:

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes
". . . Swami Vivekananda, a Bengali Brahmin by birth, was a sannyasi, . . .
===============
Swami Vivekananda (Narendranath Dutta) was not a Brahmin.
Please do not spread misinformation

December 16, 2008 11:05 AM

***

As a Hindu sannyasi, Swami Vivekananda would have renounced his caste anyway, even if he was a Brahmin. Nobody refers to the great Hindu sages by their caste, because as a rule they have to renounce their caste in order to become a sannyasi. Thanks for the correction.

I understand that Dutt belongs to the Kshatriya caste, just like Buddha, who was a Hindu prince before he left home in search of enlightenment.

Vivekananda preached that all religions were equal. So I wonder why he is being used as a spiritual symbol for Vishwa Hindu Parishad which is a Hindu fascist organization, which seeks to prove that Hinduism is superior to all religions.

AWAAZ - SOUTH ASIA WATCH FOR JUSTICE, PEACE AND HUMAN RIGHTS:
Sources:
1. Angana Chatterji, “Hindutva’s Violent History”.MuktiMono website
2. Prafulla Das, “Project Orissa”, Frontline vol. 25, issue 19. http:// www/flonnet.com/fl2519/stories/200080926251900400.htm
3. Indian Social Action Forum (INSAF) Press Release, 29 Aug 2008.
4. Vijay Simha, “In the Name of God”, Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 36, Sep 13, 2008.
5. International Religious Freedom Report 2008, “India”, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, US Department of State http:// www.state.gov September 19, 2008
6. Hindu-Christian tensions in India: Marching as to war” The Economist print edition, Sept. 25, 2008 http:// www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12305373
7. “Anti-Christian attacks flare in India: Some see a government hand in the fanatical Hindu anger against a minority and its converts”. By Mian Ridge The Christian Science Monitor September 24, 2008 http:// www.csmonitor.com/2008/0924/p07s03-wosc.html
8. Frontline Sep. 27-Oct. 10, 2008 “NOW, KARNATAKA” by Vikhar Ahmed Sayeed in Mangalore…
9. “Law and Order Must be an Article of Faith”, Editorial, Hindustan Times, September 22, 2008.
10. Anand Soondas, “Orissa tribals battle forced re-conversion”, TNN.
11. NCM for ban on Bajrang Dal Tribune News Service, http:// www.tribuneindia.com:80/2008/20081006/main4.htm
12. http:// www.anhadin.net/article50.html “Visit to Orissa”, Friday 5 September 2008, by Shabnam Hashmi
13. “Convert or leave Ladapadar, Christian families told”, by Prafulla Das http:// www.thehindu.com/2008/10/13/stories/2008101356471200.htm
14. “Hindu Threat to Christians: Convert or Flee”, by Somini Sengupta, The New York Times, 13 October 2008.

PS: Paste web addresses correctly for viewing

http://www.awaazsaw.org/archives/48

Cond...AWAAZ - SOUTH ASIA WATCH FOR JUSTICE, PEACE AND HUMAN RIGHTS:

We demand:
That the Indian government provide immediate relief, adequate compensation and security to the victims in terms of food, shelter and physical protection;
To provide funds for the re-building of homes, churches, schools and businesses destroyed in the violence and ensure the safe return of all those who were forced to flee their homes and villages;
To censure the state governments for their failure to provide for the security of minorities;
To take action against the leaders and state officials who instigated the violence and to prosecute their hate speech according to law;
To impartially investigate the killing of Laxmananda Saraswati and the killers be punished in accordance with the law;
To ensure that the Indian Constitution’s recognition of the right to religious conversion is repected;
To conduct an inquiry into Sangh Parivar activities and its related outfits that have been directly involved in the anti-Christian violence. The Sangh Parivar has been building its hate base in the poorest districts of Orissa since the late 1960s. CULTURAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE DOING POLITICAL WORK SHOULD BE AUDITED AND THEIR PRIVILEGE AS CHARITABLE INSTITUTIONS REVIEWED;

To consider the National Commission for Minorities Report of 2008 that points out that religion made no difference to the discrimination faced by Dalits. The Commission has recommended reservations for Dalit Christians and Muslims and has also called for the banning of Bajrang Dal, a Sangh Parivar outfit that has been at the forefront of the anti-Christian violence;

and

To provide legal recognition to Dalit Christians and Dalit Muslims as Scheduled Castes, allowing assaults on these communities to be prosecuted under the SC and ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989.
Given the history of communal violence in recent decades in India, from riots and pogroms to genocidal attacks on minority populations, as witnessed in Gujarat in 2002, Awaaz wants to put all democratically minded people on alert against the long-term and embedded anti-democratic and communal project of the Sangh Parivar to destroy India’s secular fabric and to erode the rights provided by the Constitution of India to its minorities and to all its citizens. Before Orissa is turned into another Gujarat, Awaaz South Asia Watch urges everyone concerned to raise their voices against the violence and the infringement of the Constitution and its guarantees of a secure life for all its citizens.

Contd...
AWAAZ - SOUTH ASIA WATCH FOR JUSTICE, PEACE AND HUMAN RIGHTS:

That this violence is taking place in BJP-led states or in states where the BJP is in coalition points to state complicity with HINDUTVA forces and to the role of * BJP-AFFILIATED ORGANIZATIONS OF THE SANGH PARIVAR - RSS, VISHWA HINDU PARISHAD (Aside: VHP UK AND VHP AMERICA are overseas organizations which share the same ideals and serve as important fund collecting bodies to propagate and achieve the goals of VHP India/Bharat) AND BAJRANG DAL. In both Orissa and Karnataka, police have looked on as attacks have been carried out. In spite of warnings and exhortations by Hindu leaders to attack Christians, adequate security measures were not taken in the aftermath of Saraswati’s death in Orissa.
The Sangh Parivar justifies the violence against Christians as revenge against alleged forced conversions of Dalits and tribals by Christian churches and missionaries. By all reliable accounts, this issue has been blown out of proportion; certainly there is little evidence or history to suggest forcible conversions. Christians form just about 2.44% of Orissa’s population; even in Kandhamal, the site of concentrated violence, they are no more than 25% of the population. Most of the Christians are Dalits, about 90% of whom are landless or marginal farmers. Many of these poor turn to Christianity to escape the terror of the Hindu caste system and to avail of health and educational facilities provided by churches. Hindutva organizations have also used similar means to proselytise by setting up schools and hospitals to draw poor Adivasis (as tribals in India are known) into their fold. They have also conducted mass purification rituals to “re-convert” Christians to Hinduism.

Contd...AWAAZ - South Asia Watch for Justice, Peace and Human Rights

The murderous attacks on Christians and the destruction of churches have spread to many parts of India. Most recently the violence was sparked by the brutal murder of a militant Hindu religious leader affiliated to the RSS/VHP Laxmananda Saraswati and four of his followers on 23 August 2008. While the police suspected the murders to have been carried out by Maoists, the crime was used as a pretext to unleash violence and terror against innocent Christians throughout Orissa, particularly in Kandhamal and its neighbouring districts. 14 out of 30 districts in Orissa have been affected by the violence. The attacks were planned and led by Hindu militants.
In Orissa alone so far more than 57 people have been killed, several more raped and injured. More than 31,000 people have been forced to flee their homes and take shelter in forests without food, clothing and security. More than 4,300 houses belonging to Christians have been burnt and more than 149 churches vandalised and destroyed. In Bargarh district, outside Kandhamal, an orphanage attached to a Christian place of worship was attacked in which Rani Majhi, a 19-year-old Hindu girl training as a nurse, was burnt alive and a priest beaten badly. In camps and shelters, Christian tribals are being forced to “re-convert”, often at gunpoint. In all, more than 50,000 people have been directly affected and displaced in Orissa alone.
Karnataka has also witnessed violence against the Christian community in Mangalore and in other parts. Here too nuns have been attacked and more than 20 churches been vandalised.

AWAAZ - SOUTH ASIA WATCH FOR JUSTICE, PEACE AND HUMAN RIGHTS:

Statement Against Ongoing anti-Christian Violence in Orissa, Karnataka and Other States in India
October 13th, 2008 admin Posted in Orissa |

Awaaz South Asia Watch strongly condemns the ongoing anti-Christian violence in Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, Karnataka and elsewhere in India. The violence has resulted in the loss of innocent lives and the destruction of places of worship; it constitutes a severe attack on the Indian Constitution and the secular and democratic spirit of India.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
When the BJP/NDA was in power last time:
George Fernandez was the Defence Minister.
Abdul Kalam was elected President.
Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi was Junior Minister of Information & Broadcasting

More recently after the state victory in Karnataka, BJP elected Mumtaz Ali Khan as Minority Welfare Minister.

So please separate "perceived realities" from "ground realities".

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes:
". . . .Now, the supposedly constitutionally correct BJP still excludes Muslims and Christians in their definition of Indians . . . "
===================================

Blatant lies . . . please quote your sources!!
Otherwise your views will not have any weight, and will be equivalent to trash talking!!!

To be continued in the coming days...

Anyone who understands a bit of politics in India knows that BJP has been a Hindu fascist party from its inception. It started to relax its rigidity only after it realized it could not sell fascist Hinduism even to most Hindus themselves, not even to most of their lower castes who stood to lose from a politics that was extremely right wing favoring the rich, and discriminating the poor. Discriminating against minorities is part of the party code. According to the Hindu fascist agenda only Hindus are Indians to begin with. The relaxation of the rule came to include people who follow religions which originated in India - Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism, came later. Never mind that none of these three religions consider themselves Hindus. These religions were born as a solution to some of the serious flaws of Hinduism. But such an inclusion helps some politically ambitious non-Hindu, "Hindus."

Now, the supposedly constitutionally correct BJP still excludes Muslims and Christians in their definition of Indians, never mind Muslims have been around for a thousand years and except for a few Arabic invaders, who long integrated into Indian society, through marriage alliances with daughters of Hindu kings, etc and converted many locals to Islam. Christianity has been around for nineteen and a half centuries, and is not a product of British colonial rule. Parsis and Jews are not mentioned at all because their numbers are too small, and they are generally an affluent society, who are not in anyway affected by the Hindu society.

Not many Americans are familiar with Indian history. India was a British colony for 200 years, not an American one, so it is understandable.

Now we have Hindu fascists inventing Indian history to suit their political ends, which is to roll back Indian society to the millenia, before the arrival of Muslims and the British, when Hindu upper castes alone ruled and had all the say in society, creating a feudalism and internal imperialism which left vast sections of its own society trapped forever at the bottom of the social barrel.

This new invented Hindu Indian history is called Hindutva, or "Hinduness," and seeks to portray India as a strictly Hindu country, for "thousands of years." They seek to reintroduce the draconian Manu Smrithi laws, reinvented in a way to suit the modern day ruler and businessman, who were known as Kshatriya and Vaishya caste in Hinduism. An attempt at credibility is sought by the input by some Hindu ?Brahmins who have taken on the role of spin masters.

"Saytam eva jayathe" = Sankrit for 'may truth alone prevail' is the Indian motto, but it has been borrowed by the Hindu fascist political party, BJP - Bharatiya (Indian) Janatha (People) Party, as its own. "Satyam Jayathe" = Let truth prevail, is the party motto. The only problem their fascist version of Indian "truth" is not what India is about and wants to be about. India is a secular democracy, and while it is perfectly legal for Hindu fascists to chant anything they want in their temples and homes, it is not right to impose a fascist version of Hinduism through a political rule on any Indian.

Contd...

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
All political parties in India are secular by constitution. In response to your multiple allegations of supposed non-secular and unconstitutional leanings of BJP, I would like to say the following:

BJP: It is for a Uniform Common Civil Code, which create only one personal and civil law code for Hindus, Muslims and Christians, who currently enjoy the privilege of having law codes tailored to their religious culture over personal and family matters. In the minds of BJP supporters, this system creates a sense of division in the country between religious communities.
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party)

Congress: In 1985, the Supreme Court of India ruled in favour of Muslim divorcee Shah Bano, declaring that her husband should give her alimony. Muslim fundamentalists in India treated it as an encroachment in Muslim Personal Law and protested against it. Congress Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi agreed to their demands. In 1986, the Congress party, which had an absolute majority in Parliament at the time, passed an act that nullified the Supreme Court's judgement in the Shah Bano case. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Gandhi)

So, which party is secular and constitutional, and which one is not. Things are not that black and white as your tirade against BJP seems to indicate - right? The problems are complex and cannot be sorted out that easily - hopefully with time, things will become better in India through more dialog and compromise.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
states
"Re source of info about West Bengal being the third largest economy in India: if info provided by India Brand Equity Foundation is reliable. It is not writing a propaganda piece for West Bengal because it gives information about all states.

http://www.ibef.org/states/westbengal.aspx"
===========================
Thanks for sharing the source! West Bengal used to be one of the most prosperous state and now it is in a downward trend because of hostility to business under Communist (and neglect under occassional Congress) rule. High population base and high starting GDP gives misleading indicators. Per capita income and trend are better indicators.
See e.g. International Monetory Fund report by Catriona Purfield 2006 titled "Mind the Gap—Is Economic Growth in India Leaving Some States Behind?"
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2006/wp06103.pdf

Table 1 of the report indicates that West Bengal fell from #8 to #10 in income rank, and Kerala (another Communist ruled state) fell from #4 to #7 from 1970's to 1990's.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
repeatedly makes claims that BJP is unconstitutional. Well what do you have to say on Afzal Guru, a terrorist convicted by the Indian Supreme Court for attacking the Indian Parliament being not given death row by the present UPA coalition which includes Congress and was supported by the Communists. The most likely reason - perceived fear of losing Muslim vote bank!

So which party acts according to the constitution and which one violates it?

A more deeper understanding is needed and blanket statements are counterproductive.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes
". . . Swami Vivekananda, a Bengali Brahmin by birth, was a sannyasi, . . .
===============
Swami Vivekananda (Narendranath Dutta) was not a Brahmin.
Please do not spread misinformation

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes:
"The Bharatiya Janatha Party (BJP), on the other hand is an extreme right, theocratic-Nationalist party (hence unconstitutional in a secular democracy), which has exploited and manipulated Hinduism for its own ends. It is actively against what it calls, the "licence-permit-quota-Raj." In other words it is against the measures worked into the constitution to help the poor and disadvantaged. It believes in success of the rich to help the economy. The other unconstitutional aspect of the party is that it is against non-Hindu minorities, and actively propagates violence and intimidation by proxy through its henchmen members of the "family" (called Sangh Parivar; Sangh = community, Parivar = family)."
=============================
Whichever Marxist/left wing source you got it from is propagating blatant lies. Check Wikipedia are other sources for a more balanced description

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
wrote
". . . . Siv Sena = Shiva's Army (Shiva is a Hindu god) and the break away arm of Shiv Sena in the state of Maharasthra called Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS)"
====================
Well, Shiv Sena is a creation of Indian National Congress in the 1960's.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_Sena
where it says
"The Shiv Sena was supported by elements inside the Indian National Congress, who hoped that the new organization would be capable of weakening the communist trade union influence. "

Similarly it has been alleged by the BJP that Congress is supporting the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS) , see http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/politics/congress-ncp-supporting-mns-says-bjp_100112852.html

A Wall Street report also states that
"The problem has compounded, with several allies in the ruling United Progressive Alliance (UPA) and Opposition parties accusing the Congress, which leads the coalition in Maharashtra, of not doing enough to reign in the MNS."
See http://www.livemint.com/2008/10/31235417/MNS-chief-may-spell-fresh-trou.html

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
wrote
"Right wing parties that favor high caste Hindus should come clean and admit their true intent, and examine the violation of the Indian Constitution which has been integrated into their party policies."

Once gain this is a false propaganda by Marxists and their left wing sympathisers in the English language media. Most BJP leaders today are not high caste Brahmins
Narendra Modi is from backward caste
Advani, Shivraj Singh Chouhan, Raman Singh etc. are not Barhmins either

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
wrote
"Since there is no evidence of Bangladeshi infiltration into West Bengal for the sake of voting for communists, for the moment it should be considered as propaganda spread by a Hindu fascist party."

For coverage of fake voter ID cards to Bangladeshi infiltrators, see the news report
"Indians wiped out by Bangladeshis on WEST BENGAL's voters list"
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2005/08/indians-wiped-out-by-bangladeshis-on_07.html

For vote rigging in West Bengal as covered by major Indian newspapers, see
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0505/57.html
It also covers the Communists being upset with India's Election Commission for issuing them poll rule violation notice.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
wrote:
"Now you try to portray poor Christian converts as Maoists, to gain American sympathy with lies? "

I am not trying to portray anything, just pointing out both sides of the story for a healthy dialog. Once again, one sided assessment of facts will not solve the conflict but will exacerbate it.

See India Abroad report
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/oct/05orissa1.htm
which talks about the Maoist cadre as described by Maoist Sabyasachi Panda, and I quote from this report:

"Noting that most of the cadre members and supporters in Orissa belonged to Christian community, Panda said, 'It is a fact that Christians are in majority in our organisation."

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
wrote:
". . .. .BJP, the Hindu fascist party . . ."

Oh, now I see the source of your hate email campaign. Once again these allegations seem to stem from Indian Marxists and their left wing sympathizers, which are plenty in the English langauge media within and outside India. Many people may not agree with their ideology which is fine, that is why we have choice in a free political system such as the US and India. BJP denying people constitutional rights is a bogus claim spawned by your hatred. Like all political parties, BJP has some strengths and some weaknesses.

From VHP of America website:

VHP of America was founded in 1970 in New York to preserve, promote and practice those great universal and eternal values which were discovered and practiced by the Sages of Bharat (= India). Though INSPIRED BY THE SAME IDEALS OF VHP IN INDIA, VHP of America is DISTINCT, LEGALLY SEPARATE AND OPERATIONALLY INDEPENDENT Non-Profit organization in its own right within the USA. In 1974 the Parishad office was incorporated in New York State.

Sonal Shah, who is service minded, was the National Coordinator for VHP of America organized relief work in Gujrat, India after the earthquake in 2001.

http://www.vhp-america.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13

Thanks for reading my multi-faith take on Indian heritage.

The blogger, Truth_Prevails or Satyam Eva Jayate (may truth alone prevail) the Indian motto, seems to have disappeared. Hence this thread has come to an end.

Thanks for r

It is perfectly legitimate to have a Hindu religious organization that cultivates all that is noble in Hinduism. It becomes wrong when it is politically employed to oppress religious minorities in India. It is also not exactly honest to use Swami Vivekanda, a sannyasi who renounced his Hindu caste and his place in Hindu society, in the tradition of Hindu sannyasa, as an ideal to promote accumulation of wealth and worldliness as a Hindu ideal. Hinduism believe this world is an illusion, so it runs contrary to a materialistic culture. The Vaishya caste is concerned entirely with money making and business.

Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America Inc. (VHP of America)

Taken from their website:

According to VHP of America, Hindus are all those who

believe,
practice, or
respect

the spiritual and religious principles and practices HAVING ROORS IN BHARAT (INDIA). Thus Hindu includes JAINS, BUDDHISTS, SIKHS and people of many DIFFERENT SECTS WITHIN the Hindu ethos.

VHP of America mission:

# Prachar - Voice of the Hindus

- Promote Unity amongst Hindus through a network of Parishad chapters and like-minded organizations.
- Provide a Forum For and Represent all Hindu organizations and institutions for HINDU INTERESTS
- Raise Hindu Awareness through seminars, conferences, publications, media, audio-visual aids

# Seva

- Provide Community Service to people in distress without consideration of race, religion or nationality.
- Build a Team of Parishad active members for community service.

# Sanskar

- Cultivate the spirit of self respect in our way of life, and respect for the people of all colors, creeds, races and religions.
- Create opportunities for imbibing Hindu Values, Hindu Scriptures and Hindu Heritage through Bal Vihars, Camps, Family Retreats and Educational Institutions.

# Sampark

- ESTABLISH WORLD-WIDE CONTACTS WITH HINDUS THROUGH PROJECTS AND PROGRAMS FOCUSING ON HINDU INTERESTS EVERYWHERE.

- Raise Funds for Parishad Mission.

My comment: although Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism has been mentioned for political correctness, this is an out and out Hindu organization. Hinduism is a separate religion. No Buddhist, Jain or Sikh would call themselves Hindu or identify with Hindutva. Swami Vivekananda, a Bengali Brahmin by birth, was a sannyasi, someone who had left behind the society in search of God, and did not identify with his religion or caste as is the norm for Hindu sannyasis. He taught equality of ALL religions, including Christianity, Islam prevalent in India, NOT an exclusive Hindu nationalistic ideology as propagated by VHP. Although he cannot be identified with any religion as a sannyasi, he is being appropriated by a narrow minded nationalistic Hindu ideal only because he is world famous.

Hindutva = Hinduness, or Hindu nationalism as an ideal is given political power through various members of the "family," called Sangh Parivar.

BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party = Indian People's Party) is the political arm of Hindutva. It represents the Kshatriya (warrior) caste of Hinduism.

It has its own autonomous paramilitary wing (with no official acknowledgment) which uses violence and intimidation to achieve its goals. Bhajrang Dal, RSS (Rashtriya Svayam Sevak = ?nationalist self serving autonomous paramilitary), Siv Sena = Shiva's Army (Shiva is a Hindu god) and the break away arm of Shiv Sena in the state of Maharasthra called Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS). All violent activity is carried out by these wings on the instruction/approval of the ruling arm of the Hindutva. They have invented a Hindu philosophy that says all Indians must be Hindus, and later expanded the theory to suit their political needs to include religions that were born on Indian soil - Sikhs, Buddhists, and Jains. Their prime interest is Sikhs because they are a force to contend with and has large numbers, especially in the state of Punjab.

The intellectual, advisory board of Hindutva is the Brahmin arm VHP = Vishwa Hindu Parishad = World Hindu Council. It provides the intellectual backing and support for the fascist ideals, which calls itself Hindutva = Hinduness. In Hinduism, the Brahmin does not do the everyday task of ruling or fighting battles. They merely provide the intellectual and ideological fodder. Some intellectuals living in the West, eager to keep alive their heritage and identity in a different culture, feed the ideals and distort/invent the history of India to suit their purposes. Non resident Indian or VHP members of Indian origin share the ideals of VHP in India, benefit from the preferential treatment of high caste Hindus via the political arm BJP, in their associations in India, even if they may not be involved in any activity by the henchmen groups of Hindutva - RSS, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena, MNS et al.

The Indian National Congress Party, the party of freedom fighters, is a multi-faith, secular, center-left party.

The communist party in India is a leftist, democratically elected party. To refer to it as if it were Soviet or Chinese style totalaritarian party is a lie. Its stated goal is to uplift the oppressed poor masses and bring equality.

The Bharatiya Janatha Party (BJP), on the other hand is an extreme right, theocratic-Nationalist party (hence unconstitutional in a secular democracy), which has exploited and manipulated Hinduism for its own ends. It is actively against what it calls, the "licence-permit-quota-Raj." In other words it is against the measures worked into the constitution to help the poor and disadvantaged. It believes in success of the rich to help the economy. The other unconstitutional aspect of the party is that it is against non-Hindu minorities, and actively propagates violence and intimidation by proxy through its henchmen members of the "family" (called Sangh Parivar; Sangh = community, Parivar = family). The family members are

When violence against minority groups is propagated against minority groups by a mainstream political party, using henchmen, under cover of Hinduism, then it is a cause for serious concern. Indian is a secular democracy which was created with the ideal of pluralism by men who dedicated their lives to fighting for a free India. A Hindu fascist party which blatantly discriminates against minority groups and flouts the measures worked into the constitution to help the poor and disadvantaged, has no right to exist, leave alone be in power. One cannot have a political party that runs on religious fiction and propaganda, writing its own version of Indian history, in a secular democracy, especially since it seeks to declare India a Hindu nation at the first possible opportunity and overthrow the secular constitution.

If my assessment is a myth, then is it shared by the vast majority of Indians who are just as concerned. The only ones who are not concerned are the ones who stand to benefit from the party ideals in unfair ways.

Anyone who is sufficiently interested could look up information about the Hindu right wing groups on the internet.

1. Info about the Indian National Congress:

http://www.aicc.org.in/overview.php

Maybe you'd like to explain what the fascist agenda of the Congress party is. And whether it ordered or condoned the killing of Sikhs on the streets of Delhi after the Indian PM Ms Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards. Don't forget in India emotions can run very high in political situations, and without any help from anyone, people tend to take law into their hands. As far as I'm informed the police and military were called in to quell the violence. No matter when the help came and whether the help was effective enough, quickly it is a tragedy of immense proportions and nobody seeks to whitewash it. And how does this incident compare with the Gujrat riots against innocent Muslims and the government and VHP America reaction to it? Sonal Shah herself claims she was shocked by the indifference of her group in America. However she does not explain if she reacted differently at the time and voiced her personal objections. If she didn't, why not?

As to communism in India, a book which describes democratic communism in West Bengal and Kerala has been mentioned in an earlier post. Once again the ideals of the party need to be compared with that of Hindu fascists.

As to American "Fascism" in WW II: in order to its role as an a member of the Allied forces that finally defeated Nazi Germany, and the nuking of Japan in response to the Japanese Pearl Harbor Attack of the US, a little detailed reading of WW II, Nazi Germany, Japanese and WW II is mandatory. A discussion is outside the bounds of this topic because there is really no comparison at all. It also helps to hear from countries who were affected by the invasion of Nazi Germany and Japan during WW II.

Truth_Prevails:

You seem to have an axe to grind against Hindu Nationalists based on the number of times you refer to the word “Hindu Fascists”. How much of this labeling is a myth and how much is reality is an open question, but let me show you example of Fascism across the board:

(i) Indian National Congress Fascism – killing of 3000 innocent Sikhs in Delhi after the assassination of Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in 1984
(ii) Communist Party of India Fascism – killing of innocent villagers in Nandigram and Singur in West Bengal in 2006-07
(iii) Communist Fascism – See “The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression” by Stéphane Courtois, Harvard University Press
(iv) American Fascism – nuking of Nagasaki and Hiroshima

Screaming fascism is a hoopla and not the solution to any problem, just like this nefarious campaign against Sonal Shah by some vested interest groups. I am gratified to note that you support her nomination and so does Eboo Patel, but taking this occasion to throw mud and hatred against Hindu Nationalists is regrettable. Suggesting a proper dialog may be a more productive approach.

December 14, 2008 1:07 PM

***

Response in next post...

Truth_Prevails:

3. You said “West Bengal has the third largest economy in India” – care to give the source of your information? Is this why industries are refusing to come to Bengal after the Tata Nano car industry exodus, foreign airlines are terminating flights to Kolkata? Furthermore West Bengal Communist government openly flouts Indian law by allowing unabated entry of Bangladeshi infiltrators for vote bank politics. If the state was doing so well they would not have to rely on illegal infiltrators to cling on to power.

December 14, 2008 2:32 PM

***

Since there is no evidence of Bangladeshi infiltration into West Bengal for the sake of voting for communists, for the moment it should be considered as propaganda spread by a Hindu fascist party.

Re source of info about West Bengal being the third largest economy in India: if info provided by India Brand Equity Foundation is reliable. It is not writing a propaganda piece for West Bengal because it gives information about all states.

http://www.ibef.org/states/westbengal.aspx

West Bengal has a democratically elected communist government. So does Kerala.

A book giving more specific information about democratic communism in both these Indian states would be:

Communist parties and United Front experience in Kerala and West Bengal by M V S Koteswara Rao (Hyderabad : Prajasakti Book House, [2003]
ISBN: 8186317376 9788186317372).

PS: I have not read the book myself, hence unable to offer any opinion about it.

Truth_Prevails:

Nazis in Germany have been studied intensely worldwide for over sixty years. So the world is quite familiar with the deadly venom of fascism and how such ideals are slowly nurtured by groups in question. The fact that Hindu fascists restrict their deadly activity within the borders of India, while having many enablers living outside it, is duely noted.

Truth_Prevails:

Screaming fascism is a hoopla and not the solution to any problem, just like this nefarious campaign against Sonal Shah by some vested interest groups. I am gratified to note that you support her nomination and so does Eboo Patel, but taking this occasion to throw mud and hatred against Hindu Nationalists is regrettable. Suggesting a proper dialog may be a more productive approach.

December 14, 2008 1:07 PM

***

There is a benign explanation to the objections raised by some groups. If Sonal Shah, was a member of VHP America in the capacity of one of the committee members, then it is a sign that she shares its ideals, even if she is not responsible for any Hindu fascist motivated violence in her native state of Gujrat. Maybe they think it is no accident that a disproportionate amount of foreign investment has been going to the state of Gujrat since Sonal Shah has been associated with presidential advisory positions and international organizations. Since the state government of Gujrat and Maharastra are ruled by the Hindu nationalist party, which has a policy of withholding help to minorities and the poor, in the name of giving more to the rich to improve the state economy, they feel it would merely lead to more discrimination of minority groups and more unbalanced power for fascist groups in both states to which Sonal Shah is associated by virtue of her origin and life in India. Her Indian origina might not have been an issue at all if she had not been actively involved in VHP America, which propagates Hindu fascist ideals.

Indian Americans who have raised objections to her appointment have nothing to lose personally if Sonal Shah did engage in nepotistic support for her states. So their objection is based on ideals for a secular Indian democracy, and they would like foreign policy decisions of the US (which Sonal Shah would directly influence in her position as adviser to the President) to benefit other Indians, and to ensure that it does not serve to strengthen the Hindu fascists elements in India. Maybe they feel, with 2.5 million Indians to choose from, many of whom are equally accomplished as Sonal Shah, but have not been members of the American counterpart of a Hindu fascist organization, both Indian and American ideals are better served.

None of these groups or individuals who raised objections are part of political organizations in India.

Truth_Prevails:

India was established as a secular democracy by wise fathers of the nation, who wanted to give India's poor who had been trapped by millennia of oppression by higher caste Hindus (among them the glorious Maratha Empire!) a chance to break out of their poverty. Hindu fascists are terribly unhappy about that, and the political party run in their name and for their benefit are flouting the Indian Constitution in those states in which they hold power, in anyway they can.

Said Truth_Prevails: "Well well well – wasn’t this trend started by the Indian Communists/Leftists where you have to toe their line in the Indian states of Bengal and Kerala to get top university appointments. Not only that the Communists have spread their wings to New Delhi as well where you have to be a Communist sympathizer to get a top appointment in Jawaharlal Nehru University!"

The Congress Party has more power in the states of West Bengal and Kerala than the Communist Party does, although the Communist Party does get *elected democratically sometimes.*

Jawaharlal Nehru, the father of the late PM Indira Gandhi, is part of the Congress party, not the Communist party. The Congress Party was set up as a pluralist party right from the beginning. There is a dreadful flaw in logic to conclude that the institution named after the first Prime Minister of India, Jawaharlal Nehru, the father of late PMs Indira Gandhi, grandfather of late PM Rajiv Gandhi, whose wife is now head of the Congress Party,(the Nehru family being a philanthropic ancestrally rich Brahmin originally from Kashmir, and known as the Gandhi family because the only child of daughter of Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira, married a man from the Gujrathi Gandhi caste), one of the fathers of the Congress Party, would give its top position only to the sympathizers of the Communist Party.

Truth_Prevails:

Screaming fascism is a hoopla and not the solution to any problem, just like this nefarious campaign against Sonal Shah by some vested interest groups. I am gratified to note that you support her nomination and so does Eboo Patel, but taking this occasion to throw mud and hatred against Hindu Nationalists is regrettable. Suggesting a proper dialog may be a more productive approach.

December 14, 2008 1:07 PM

***

The first basis for dialogue is NOT to abuse religion, Hinduism, for political ends. Nobody is getting fooled with the machiavellian political manipulation of Hinduism and invention of Indian history to suit a political agenda. India is a secular democracy. Right wing parties that favor high caste Hindus should come clean and admit their true intent, and examine the violation of the Indian Constitution which has been integrated into their party policies.

The second basis for dialogue is not to invent Indian history, the history of India as a Hindu nation, (which is a complete myth because there have been other religions in India for at least 2500 years, including three major religions, one among them an extremely widespread in East Asia and now popular in the West religion - Buddhism, which were born on Indian soil as answer to the limitations of Hinduism, and Hinduism itself is known to be a confederation of religions with Hindus worshiping any god and following any philosophy they like) to support Hindu fascism.

Sorry, that was SHED light, not led light. EMS Namboothiripad, the first democratically elected communist CM of an Indian state is an example of communism as it is practiced in India.

truth_prevails:

For politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1

You seem to have an axe to grind against Hindu Nationalists based on the number of times you refer to the word “Hindu Fascists”. How much of this labeling is a myth and how much is reality is an open question, but let me show you example of Fascism across the board:

(i) Indian National Congress Fascism – killing of 3000 innocent Sikhs in Delhi after the assassination of Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in 1984
(ii) Communist Party of India Fascism – killing of innocent villagers in Nandigram and Singur in West Bengal in 2006-07
(iii) Communist Fascism – See “The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression” by Stéphane Courtois, Harvard University Press
(iv) American Fascism – nuking of Nagasaki and Hiroshima

Screaming fascism is a hoopla and not the solution to any problem, just like this nefarious campaign against Sonal Shah by some vested interest groups. I am gratified to note that you support her nomination and so does Eboo Patel, but taking this occasion to throw mud and hatred against Hindu Nationalists is regrettable. Suggesting a proper dialog may be a more productive approach.

December 14, 2008 1:07 PM

***

Hindu fascists actively support the official fascist policies of the mainstream political party that represent their ideals. The party is in power in Gujarat, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Jharkhand. It actively opposes minority welfare schemes, directly robbing them of rights enshrined in the Indian Constitution. Wanting to take power at the center and declare India a Hindu state making their policies national is an open secret.

The Indian National Congress, established by the fathers of the nation, now in power at the center, has no such fascist agenda. It is pluralist in its mission as it always has been.

Communists, as a party, have influence only in tow states - West Bengal and Kerala, where they are voted in and out of power like any other democratic party. They are no more "lefty" than left of center parties in other parts of the world.

To compare repressive Communism in other parts of the world, with small democratically elected left of center parties in India is machiavellian to the extreme. The work of Chief Minister, EMS Namboothiripad, the first democratically elected communist head of an Indian state, would shed led on communism in India.

Hindu fascists are trying to gain ground in other parts of India by exploiting and manipulating Hinduism to suit their political ends. They are using their henchmen who are a group of Hindu, so called religious groups. Apart from those already mentioned they also go under names like Hindutva. Using violence to intimidate others has been an integral part of such groups.

Truth_Prevails:

2. You wrote
“Unless Chairman Mao was a Christian, it is difficult to see how Christians and Maoists share common ideals”
According to Wall Street Journal article Maoists have come close to Christian Pano community. At such poverty levels economic benefits far outweigh ideologies.
http://www.livemint.com/2008/10/30230905/A-potent-cocktail-inside-the-s.html

December 14, 2008 2:32 PM

***

Did the Wall Street Journal also publish an article which outlined the violence the years to Dalit converts to Christianity in Orrissa and other parts of North India, and just coincidentally happen to be predominantly in States ruled by Hindu fascists? Several Indian and other international media have been covering it for years. The Hindu Brahmin who was killed by Maoists happened to be propagating hatred and intolerance against poor Dalit Christians, getting henchmen to perpetrate violence against them.

Now you try to portray poor Christian converts as Maoists, to gain American sympathy with lies?

Truth_Prevails:

For politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1

1. Your version of Indian history may not match with that of Brannon Parker or others from America or India, they are entitled to theirs as much you are entitled to yours. More open minded research is the best course forward.

December 14, 2008 2:32 PM

***

At least Brannon Parker has been honest in his admission of the fact that his version of Indian history has nothing to do with Indian history as non-Hindu Nationalist Indians in India and non VHP Indians in America understand it. It has been invented to suit the purposes of Hindu fascists. To write about an imaginary Maratha empire that extended from tip of South India in Kanyakumari to Afghanistan in the North is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

If political clout is all that is needed to reinvent history to suit one's agenda, then all sane people must be advised to read all Indian history, past, present and future, as fiction from now on.

TRUTH_PREVAILS:

For the sake of those who are not so familiar with Indian politics and cultural practices, outlining certain facts may help.

Sonal Shah is a Gujrathi Brahmin, who still has strong family ties with her state even if she lived in Mumbai for the first four years of her life. Her community in Gujrat are not in the least upset about her distancing herself officially for political reasons from VHP after she was selected by PE Obama. They even praised her for her wisdom, even though her parents are quite strongly associated with RSS! VHP America is not guilty of crimes in Gujrat against Muslims, even if a rabid anti- non-Hindu, "India for Hindus only" stand is part of their policy and they encourage it in India as best as they can. There have been two very active bloggers here who made no secret of the REAL face of VHP who support their counterparts in India. Their hatred and contempt for non-Hindus, even those they thought didn't belong to an upper caste Hindu background was amply on display. They attacked Islam and Christianity as religions. So any attempt to portray VHP as being open and generous towards non-Hindu Indians for the sake of creating a benign face for VHP (that Hindu fascists look upon Muslim and Christian converts as Muslim Hindus and Christian Hindus etc) has to do with machiavellian politics rather than the truth.

Eboo Patel is a Gujrathi. He has family in Mumbai. Like Sonal Shah he is from Chicago. So he is reacting with a communal feeling towards a fellow Gujrathi who has ties in Mumbai and lives in Chicago. The fact she cannot be held directly responsible for anything done by her VHP counterparts in Gujrat, and the fact that she has distanced herself officially from VHP, if only after being chosen by PE Obama, is what makes him see her as a fellow Gujrathi Indian American from Chicago first. If he were to associate Sonal Shah with BJP, the Hindu fascist party, who are in power both in Gujrat and Maharastra (Mumbai is part of it), where non-Hindu minorities are actively discriminated against, even denying them some rights granted by the Indian Constitution with regard to education and jobs, he would have a problem giving such whole hearted support. But any support to Gujrat that Sonal Shah may be able to arrange because of her power in the Obama administration as adviser would go to his state, if not to minority groups in his state.

For politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1

1. Your version of Indian history may not match with that of Brannon Parker or others from America or India, they are entitled to theirs as much you are entitled to yours. More open minded research is the best course forward.

2. You wrote
“Unless Chairman Mao was a Christian, it is difficult to see how Christians and Maoists share common ideals”
According to Wall Street Journal article Maoists have come close to Christian Pano community. At such poverty levels economic benefits far outweigh ideologies.
http://www.livemint.com/2008/10/30230905/A-potent-cocktail-inside-the-s.html

3. You said “West Bengal has the third largest economy in India” – care to give the source of your information? Is this why industries are refusing to come to Bengal after the Tata Nano car industry exodus, foreign airlines are terminating flights to Kolkata? Furthermore West Bengal Communist government openly flouts Indian law by allowing unabated entry of Bangladeshi infiltrators for vote bank politics. If the state was doing so well they would not have to rely on illegal infiltrators to cling on to power.
4. Narmada issue – Gujarat government offered compensation for oustees, e.g. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/419092452.cms
There may not be a solution that satisfies all but at least there seems to be some positive intent.

For politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1

You seem to have an axe to grind against Hindu Nationalists based on the number of times you refer to the word “Hindu Fascists”. How much of this labeling is a myth and how much is reality is an open question, but let me show you example of Fascism across the board:
(i) Indian National Congress Fascism – killing of 3000 innocent Sikhs in Delhi after the assassination of Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in 1984
(ii) Communist Party of India Fascism – killing of innocent villagers in Nandigram and Singur in West Bengal in 2006-07
(iii) Communist Fascism – See “The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression” by Stéphane Courtois, Harvard University Press
(iv) American Fascism – nuking of Nagasaki and Hiroshima

Screaming fascism is a hoopla and not the solution to any problem, just like this nefarious campaign against Sonal Shah by some vested interest groups. I am gratified to note that you support her nomination and so does Eboo Patel, but taking this occasion to throw mud and hatred against Hindu Nationalists is regrettable. Suggesting a proper dialog may be a more productive approach.

That said, personally I have known only Hindu gems. The Gujrati Hindus I have known have been generous to the extreme. I wish Sonal Shah great success as part of the President Obama team.

Militant Hindu fascists are a new breed I have not had the bad luck to know personally. I look upon them as political machiavellians and spiritual cretins, unworthy of the great spiritual tradition of Hinduism and India.

Truth_Prevails:

The extent and nature of Hindu extremism needs more thoroughly researched, relying solely on politically motivated media reports for hidden agendas will not solve the problem but will exacerbate it. Brannon Parker, for one seems to be doing some interesting research – see http://mwcnews.net/content/view/26990&Itemid=1
for a fresh new perspective.

There is no scientific evidence analyzing how American Indians think on Hindu extremism. A broad labeling like this is clearly not going to solve the problem or your wishes!

December 13, 2008 9:44 PM

****

Militant Hindu fascists have a political agenda for India. Those who criticize them on a blog such as this, don't.

Brannon Parker has written fiction, not Indian history. It seems to suit the purposes of Hindu fascists. Only someone who is completely stupid would give it any consideration at all.

Hopefully most Indian Americans are NOT Hindu fascists who propagate intolerance, violence, division and hatred in India while playing model citizens in the secular democracy of the US. Hindu fascists who do, are hypocrites of the highest order.

Said Truth_Prevails:

These Communists and their sympathizers have produced a preponderance of writers who seem to specialize in bashing up Hindu Nationalists. I have no problem with left wingers (Communist, Islamist sympathizers) specializing in pointing out flaws of right wingers (Hindu Nationalists) but when it comes to offering concrete solutions there seems to be very little.

What have the Communists done in their own states of Bengal and Kerala in India? In spite of high literacy they have driven out almost all industries because workers rights and work stoppages are more important to them than corporate productivity and profitability.

So when left wingers like Yagnik research a financially prosperous and right wing ruled state like Gujarat, there may be a sizeable objectivity gap which needs to be also researched.

December 13, 2008 9:52 PM

****

There are some obvious false assumptions here:

1. All who criticize militant Hindu fascists are Communists or "Islamist sympathizers,"

2. All mainstream or majority of Hindus in India are militant Hindu fascists,

3. Apart from the communists the militant Hindu fascists have no mainstream political opposition (read: Congress),

4. Only militant Hindu fascists are patriotic,

5. There are really no practical solutions to the problems in India besides militant Hindu fascism,

6. By pretending to stand for Hindus, there is a complete denial of the fact that Communists, Congress and other parties are political parties who do not exploit religion for political gain; a false impression is created that no other party but the Hindu fascists have real Hindus in their ranks,

7. Hindu fascists are anti-Constitutional, yet
pretend their idea of discriminating against non-Hindus is the ideal way to run the secular democracy. They are waiting for a pretext to dissolve the secular Constitution and declare India a Hindu state, in which they can have all the power and oppress any minority group of their choosing.

testing

Said Truth_Prevails:

E.g. in the Indian state of West Bengal which is ruled by Communists, with whom this Coalition seem to sympathise with there is (i) land grabbing from poor farmers for industrialists, (ii) high handed driving out of a secular humanist and well known author Taslima Nasreen from West Bengal because she eloquently talks about Muslim atrocities on Hindus in Bangladesh based on her own experience. Driving out of Nasreen is spearheaded by a cocktail of Islamists and Communists in India and this Coalition seems to be silent on such issues.

December 13, 2008 9:47 PM

***

Ref to info on Sardar Sarovar Dam, displacement of 400,000 poor Gujratis without resettlement, land being sold to industrialists, takeover of urban land occupied by the poor for millennia in Gujrat cities as foreign investment industries expand.

Truth_Prevails:

So an American Hindu Foundation has since discovered Maoists in India are Christian converts? How interesting. Funny how nobody else in India knows that. Maoists are known not to practice any religion and they are derived from the oppressed lower caste Hindus. Unless Chairman Mao was a Christian, it is difficult to see how Christians and Maoists share common ideals. But of course one would expect militant Hindu fascists to attack those who are defenseless and do not use violence or retaliate. Since Muslims tend to react with a little more vigor, Dalit converts to Christianity and those who work to better their social situation are chosen. The cowardly nature of the act does not make the Hindu militant blush. They employ lower caste Hindu henchmen to do their dirty job.

TRUTH_PREVAILS:

What have the Communists done in their own states of Bengal and Kerala in India? In spite of high literacy they have driven out almost all industries because workers rights and work stoppages are more important to them than corporate productivity and profitability.

So when left wingers like Yagnik research a financially prosperous and right wing ruled state like Gujarat, there may be a sizeable objectivity gap which needs to be also researched.

December 13, 2008 9:52 PM

****

Is there an implication Hindu extremism leads to economic progress or what? Is the state of Gujrat supposed to serve as a model for Hindu extremism leading to economic progress?

Here some information about the Sardar Sarovar Dam in Gujrat, which displaced 400,000 people who have not been resettled, the land confiscated being leased to industrialists...

http://www.narmada.org/nvdp.dams/ssp/Update_Sep_2005.pdf

More and more urban development in Gujrat, with overseas investment, is likewise displacing the poorest of the poor who are not being resettled.

The ideals of Mahatma Gandhi are not very evident in the latest industrialization boom because it is clearing out the poor from their homes in urban areas by taking over their land, and driving them to live packed like sardines in slums.

West Bengal has the third largest economy in India and Kerala has the highest literacy rate and the most egalitarian society, despite its comparative poverty.

A rising Hindu Nazi ideology of the Hindu militant extremists is NOT the solution to an imperfect economy, or an imperfect democracy.

What else can you expect from the Hindu Taliban Foundation? Maoists don't have any religion, and they confessed killing the Swami because of his communal hatred. Maoists also threatened to kill other Hindu fascists if they get a chance.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1
writes:

"The Hindu Brahmin was killed by Maoists. They owned up to the killing. Why do you insist Christians killed him?"

=================================
According to Hindu American Foundation news release these Maoists were Christian converts. Hopefully this answers your question.

See
http://www.hafsite.org/media_letters_hindu_threat_to_christians.htm

Eboo Patel writes:

“Let me be very clear about something: I consider the Hindu right (an alphabet soup of totalitarian groups which includes the VHP, the BJP, the RSS and the Bajrang Dal) a serious danger - to the safety of Muslims and Christians, to the ideals of Hinduism and India, and to the possibility of pluralism.”
====================================

Well Eboo what do you have to say on the following

(i) BJP selected nuclear scientist Dr. Abdul Kalam, a muslim as the President of India, and he was one of the finest Presidents.

(ii) There are muslim nationalist members of RSS, known as Rashtrawadi Muslim Manch e.g. see
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/politics/rss-sends-muslim-delegation-to-srinagar-for-peace-talks_10081176.html
In fact according to the following article it seems that other muslim groups (probably of the unpatriotic and hate mongering kind) seem to be interfering with the patriotic muslims in RSS
http://www.hindu.com/2005/02/13/stories/2005021313251000.htm

So Eboo, what you are saying raises more doubts than clarity.

DSW4 wrote . . .

. . . . See Achyut Yagnik and Suchitra Sheth, The Shaping of Modern Gujarat, p. 277.
==================================

Did some quick web search on Achyut Yagnik . . .
In one of his articles ( http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2007/03/there_is_no_civ.html ) he laments –
“Now, in the universities of Gujarat, top appointments are made only if the educationalists and writers voice Hindutva views.”
Well well well – wasn’t this trend started by the Indian Communists/Leftists where you have to toe their line in the Indian states of Bengal and Kerala to get top university appointments. Not only that the Communists have spread their wings to New Delhi as well where you have to be a Communist sympathizer to get a top appointment in Jawaharlal Nehru University!

These Communists and their sympathizers have produced a preponderance of writers who seem to specialize in bashing up Hindu Nationalists. I have no problem with left wingers (Communist, Islamist sympathizers) specializing in pointing out flaws of right wingers (Hindu Nationalists) but when it comes to offering concrete solutions there seems to be very little. What have the Communists done in their own states of Bengal and Kerala in India? In spite of high literacy they have driven out almost all industries because workers rights and work stoppages are more important to them than corporate productivity and profitability.

So when left wingers like Yagnik research a financially prosperous and right wing ruled state like Gujarat, there may be a sizeable objectivity gap which needs to be also researched.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1 wrote

Open letter to Sonal Shah from some Indian Americans
A Coalition of Concerned Indian-Americans
Endorsing Organizations . . .
=================================

A majority of the activities of “A Coalition of Concerned Indian-Americans” seem to be focused on bad mouthing the Hindu nationalists. If they are genuinely concerned with human rights abuses in India why do they not also highlight significant human rights abuses by other groups in India. E.g. in the Indian state of West Bengal which is ruled by Communists, with whom this Coalition seem to sympathise with there is (i) land grabbing from poor farmers for industrialists, (ii) high handed driving out of a secular humanist and well known author Taslima Nasreen from West Bengal because she eloquently talks about Muslim atrocities on Hindus in Bangladesh based on her own experience. Driving out of Nasreen is spearheaded by a cocktail of Islamists and Communists in India and this Coalition seems to be silent on such issues.

politicallyincorrectworldcitizen1 wrote:

American Indians who secretly or openly support the Hindu extremist, divisive policy in India, while living in total freedom and luxury in the US, need to be careful for what they are wishing for in the name of love of their country. . . . .
==============================

The extent and nature of Hindu extremism needs more thoroughly researched, relying solely on politically motivated media reports for hidden agendas will not solve the problem but will exacerbate it. Brannon Parker, for one seems to be doing some interesting research – see http://mwcnews.net/content/view/26990&Itemid=1
for a fresh new perspective.

There is no scientific evidence analyzing how American Indians think on Hindu extremism. A broad labeling like this is clearly not going to solve the problem or your wishes!

Hindu extremism is not the best of India. God forbid that it should be.

Here is a catch: If Sonal Shah, who has lived in the US from the age of four, was educated here, and could still share Hindu extremist ideals to the extent of being a member of the party in the US, does renouncing her affiliations now that she is selected to be part of PE Obama's team really mean anything? To Americans and to the American government it means nothing. But is Hindu extremism the kind of Indian ideal that reflects the Indian society living in the US?

The selection is a political one. Sonal Shah is sure to do what President Obama expects her to do.

Politically Incorrect and Curious

Open letter to Sonal Shah from some Indian Americans

A Coalition of Concerned Indian-Americans

Endorsing Organizations

American Muslim Physicians of Indian Origin (AMPI)
Association of Indian Muslims in America (AIM), Washington DC
Friends of South Asia (FOSA), San Jose, California (www.friendsofsouthasia.org)
India Foundation, Michigan
Indian Muslim Council (IMC), Morton Grove, Illinois (www.imc-usa.org)
Indian Muslim Education Foundation (IMEFNA), North America
International Service Society, Michigan
Non-Resident Indians for a Secular and Harmonious India (NRI-SAHI), Michigan
Sikh American Heritage Organization, Wayne, Illinois
South Asian Network for Secularism and Democracy (SANSAD), Greater Vancouver, Canada (sansad.org)
Supporters of Human Rights in India (SHRI)
The Coalition for a Secular Democratic India (CSDI), Chicago. Illinois
Vaishnava Center for Enlightenment, Michigan

Personal Endorsements
George Abraham
Girish Agrawal
Rasheed Ahmed
Shahid Ali, M.D.
Khalid Azam
Dr. Chinmoy Banerjee
Dr. Angana Chatterji
Nasir Chippa
Gautam Desai
Shalini Gera
Sapna Gupta
Nishrin Hussain
Mohammad Imran
Imtiazuddin
Kaleem Kawaja
Attaulla Khan
Wasim Khan, MD, MPH
Alex V. Koshy
Kursheed A. Mallick, M.D.
Saeed Patel
Shrikumar Poddar
Raju Rajagopal
Ravi Ravishankar
Dr. Svati Shah
Dr. Hari Sharma
Ramkumar Sridharan
Raja Swamy
Dr. Shaikh Ubaid

http://sanghsamachar.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/an-open-letter-to-sonal-shah/

Thank you, Eboo, for stating exactly how I feel about Sonal, and about the ridiculous non-scandal that is [not] brewing. I have known her for a long time, her sister was in law school with me, and I met Sonal after I moved to Washington. I have never met people more committed to public service than Sonal, her sister and brother. They apply a determination to their work--establishing a cross-border NGO and managing the volunteers on a yearly basis is no small task--that has allowed them to persevere. The determination is also tempered with a humility, and compassion that is rare in public life these days. They are role models, inspiring to young people of our generation. Many have dreams of great public works they'd like to start--Sonal and her siblings have realized those dreams.

Sonal's career has been dedicated to public service. She has served in Washington in the government, at a think tank, in Bosnia post-conflict as a banking advisor, in New York on Wall Street, San Francisco at Google--all her work has been towards bettering the world. If you look at her positions, every one was geared toward progress, toward corporate/social responsibility.

How many of us can say this?

Yet, when you meet Sonal, you do not meet a high-flying, know-it-all, arrogant lawyer/economist/party-hack-appointee-in-waiting. You meet a very down-to-earth, warm, and wonderful person. Truly, no one who knows her could consider that she supports violence or intolerance. She is articulate, intelligent, brilliant--and, yet, a pleasure to know and to be around.

Washington can certainly use more of that!

I hope that the Obama team is not robbed of Sonal's talent, energy, and the pleasure of working with her, by divisive elements.

In the 21st century as all nations strive to work together for international peace and justice while at the same time respecting the sovereignty of each country, any nation, any political party, any religious denomination that foments hatred and division shall be treated as pariahs by the world community. Human consciousness is shifting dramatically towards a universal awareness. Some people may need to do a lot of catching up.

American Indians who secretly or openly support the Hindu extremist, divisive policy in India, while living in total freedom and luxury in the US, need to be careful for what they are wishing for in the name of love of their country. A little bit of brushing up on history would go a long way. During the period of Muslim rule of large areas of India, Hindu and Muslim rulers fought each other (OK they need to be treated as different countries fighting each other)and the British came in to "settle disputes" and soon India became a British colony. So now fomenting violence between Hindus and Indians practicing other religions could weaken the Indian nation, which is taking baby steps in secular democracy and working towards getting out of its status as one of the poorest countries in the world with starving millions. As to the "India only for Hindus" nonsense, a little brush up of India's history for the past two and a half thousand years would help immensely as well. Okay, Muslims invaded India a thousand years ago, and ruled for 300 years, with local Muslims and non-Muslims, and as Muslims who had integrated completely with the locals. But it was followed by British rule for 200 years. Which Indian Muslim alive today is responsible for anything Muslim invaders and rulers might have done? India does not need some kind of Nazi ideology being cooked up to suit a political party. American Indians need to be beware of the poison they help spread and strengthen in the name of love of the country of origin.

Indian Americans should not foment hatred and division in their country of origin, India, and weaken it, making it vulnerable to attacks and takeover from outside even in a colonial sense. If, as Indians living overseas, Indian Americans can't contribute to unity and strength among Indians in India, contribute to relief of poverty among its desperately poor millions of all religions, then they could do all Indians a favor by staying out of its politics! During the British Raj some Indians got a reputation for working against their own people. After independence many of the elite Indians behaved like colonizers to their own people. Fomenting hatred and division in India by non-resident Indians is an act of utter hypocrisy and a great disservice to their country of origin.

Disingenuous, Eboo.

That's the problem. Disingenuous about Judaism and Jews. Disingenuous about Hinduism and Hindus. Disingenuous about Islam and Muslims. Disingenuous about Christianity and Chrstians. Disingenuous about almost everyone and everything you've written on during the last few months.

Perhaps your dishonesty is not a problem in other areas of your enterprise. However, this is a nationally read public blog, and some of your supporters may find their way here, read you as we do. Then what? Assuming you are doing good work, why jeopardize it.

It wasn't always thus with you. One wonders what happened.

Making an honest, albeit modest,case for Shah would not have been impossible. No Shah apologeitc could have had an ethereal glow, but neither would it necessarily weaken an already waning credibility.

Think about it.

I agree with this article. I've known Sonal Shah well through the fellowship she had at the Aspen Institute and through her work at Google.org. She has always been dedicated to humanitarian causes and finding good (and selfless) endeavors that make the world better.
Walter Isaacson, the Aspen Institute.

This is indeed a thin defense. It is a fact that Sonal Shah coordinated relief efforts of VHP-A after the Gujarati earthquake. While this sounds wonderfully noble, unfortunately it is also a fact that the VHP and the rest of the Sangh Parivar used that relief effort to further bifurcate society along caste and communal lines by providing relief almost exclusively to upper caste Hindus. See Achyut Yagnik and Suchitra Sheth, The Shaping of Modern Gujarat, p. 277.

This is the crappiest piece I have ever read on Washingtonpost: completely biased and devoid of facts.

INTCAMD,

I completely agree with you.

desirocks:

The Sang parivar (which includes VHP and RSS) is exploiting the certain feeling in Hindu majority. They are systematically drilling belifs like
1) Hindus are oppressed in their own land
2) Minorities are being appeased at expense of hindus
3) hindus are denied justice

As a result, I see escalation of religous fights never seen before. I never heard of hindu-christian roits when I grew up in India. This hate propaganda is courtesy Sang parivar. Their proganda machinary is well oiled and functioning.
Why did gujarat killing take place? Because hindus were burnt in train. Why were christians attacked in Orissa? Because swami was killed by christian.
Sonal Shah is one of them that is feeding these snakes. She is sly and tricky just like sangh parivar.

December 11, 2008 10:37 PM

___________________________________________

DESIROCKS:

What about countering propaganda with truth?

1. Hindus oppress their own. No non-Hindu oppresses a Hindu.

2. When minorities are granted their rights according to the secular Constitution of India, high caste Hindus, who would otherwise deny them their rights, feel they are being robbed of their inability to discriminate against minorities.

3. When any injustice meted out by a Hindu against a non-Hindu is normally ignored by their fellow Hindus (as happened in the riots against Muslims in Gujrat), any call for the Hindus responsible to be brought to the book is considered injustice against Hindus.

A few Muslims were responsible for killing a few Hindus in a train. In retaliation, completely innocent Muslims in Gujrat, by the hundreds (running into 2000 or more) were killed. The police looked the other way, the Hindu masses cheered them on. The culprits were not brought to justice. When investigations began, the Hindu investigator who would have helped bring some Hindus to the book, was vilified.

Dalits converts to Christianity have been targets of Hindu violence for many years because with conversion they become less vulnerable to Hindu high caste exploitation for slave like labor. Spiritually they do not feel inferior to Hindu Brahmins. This bothers upper caste Hindus, who would dearly like to keep people feel trapped in their lower caste status based on their birth.

Maoists killed the Hindu Brahmin who helped spread a toxic Hindu ideology for decades. But helpless Dalit converts to Christianity were killed, their Churches and property were set ablaze in revenge.

Violent extremism is the same, no matter which religion practices it.

ee

gaijinsamurai,

Au Contraire!!!

The flaws and errors of the major religions are exactly why this thread exists.

Muslims vs. Hindus vs. Christians and all because each religion thinks they are the one and true religion whereas none are!!

Selection of Sonal Shah is a political decision: she is locally from Chicago, and from Mumbai originally, the financial capital of India. The BJP is in power in the state of Maharashtra to which Mumbai belongs. The US will deal with India as a country and Sonal Shah will reflect American foreign policy towards India, not her personal or parental political affiliation in India.

Since the Hindu right, VHP, RSS et al, would whole heartedly support Sonal Shah (even if she has denounced her VHP of America affiliation now, and whose parents are RSS supporters), be mighty proud of an Mumbaite-American, the caption should have read, "American Christian Right wrong about Sonal."

If Indicorps is a non-religious and non-political service organiztion, then Sonal Shah cannot be held guilty for atrocities committed by any group in India.

DESIROCKS:

Hinduism with its oppressive caste system does not need any help from outside to oppress their own. India has been a desperate third world country for many centuries. Hinduism has always remained the majority religion in India and it still is. So something must be dreadfully wrong with Hindu ideals. A secular democracy is striving very hard to bring progress to the poor oppressed for millennia under the caste system. It should not come as a surprise that some upper caste Hindus would like to revert back to the days when only upper castes had the say in the land.

DESIROCKS:
a
The Hindu Brahmin was killed by Maoists. They owned up to the killing. Why do you insist Christians killed him? The Christians who are being targeted by Hindu extremists are poor defenseless Dalits. The violence against them has been going on for a few years. It is all politically motivated.

The Sang parivar (which includes VHP and RSS) is exploiting the certain feeling in Hindu majority. They are systematically drilling belifs like
1) Hindus are oppressed in their own land
2) Minorities are being appeased at expense of hindus
3) hindus are denied justice

As a result, I see escalation of religous fights never seen before. I never heard of hindu-christian roits when I grew up in India. This hate propaganda is courtesy Sang parivar. Their proganda machinary is well oiled and functioning.
Why did gujarat killing take place? Because hindus were burnt in train. Why were christians attacked in Orissa? Because swami was killed by christian.
Sonal Shah is one of them that is feeding these snakes. She is sly and tricky just like sangh parivar.

What India needs is for it to resurrect its 2500 year old Buddhist heritage. Emperor Ashoka, a Hindu convert to Buddhism, built the greatest Indian empire. Non-violence and lack of caste system is a part of Buddhism's greatness. Violence propagating Hindu nationalists are no good for India's secular democracy. They need to be tackled with as much toughness as any other violence propagating extremist group. If some are hiding in the US pretending to be secularists while propagating a violent nationalist "India for Hindus only" ideology in India, they need to be exposed.

MalavikaPatil:

The terrorist ideology of intolerance and hatred and using violence as a means to achieve goals is the same, no matter whether such a tactic is used by Hindus or Muslims. If Muslims who use violence can be called terrorists, Hindus who use violence must be called terrorists too. Fair is fair.

malavikapatil:

Shame on Bocoj on spreading misinformation and hinduphobia.

Why did the riots happen in Orissa's Khamandal district? The fact is Christian fundamentalists killed 85 year old venerable monk and 4 of his associated in cold blood. This was the fourth attack on his life by Christian fanatics. This monk was the equivalent of Billy Graham for the people of Orissa.

Those christian terrorists who killed him were the aggressors and not 'persecuted minority'. It is entirely different that the backlash was severe and unexpected because 'meek pagans(Hindus) were expected to die quietly'. So the divinely ordained crusaders can go on ethnic cleansing like in Nagaland and Mizoram. Where the Christians completely ethnically cleansed Hindus.

Unfortunately for the divinely ordained, Hindus are understanding the neo colonial agenda of semitic faiths.

December 11, 2008 7:11 PM

****

It helps to get some facts right.

What exactly are violence propagating Hindu nationalists who claim India is only for Hindus and an ethnic Indian who practices any other religion besides Hinduism ought to leave India, doing in the United States of America, a country with a Christian majority?

The "venerable" Hindu Brahmin, who had been inciting hatred and violence against Christians, had been involved in force reconverting Christians to Hinduism, was killed by Maoists. They owned up to it. But Hindus attacked Christians who were helpless.

It is well known that there is a small group of Hindu fanatics who are inciting violence against non-Hindus in India. It is part of a political agenda. They have been labeled Hindu terrorists by other Hindus. If some Hindus living in the US are encouraging such behavior in India, shame on them. They need to pack up and leave the US.

Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation

The Hindu, 12 December 2008

Washington: Sonal Shah, the Indian-origin member of U.S. President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team, whose links with VHP sparked criticism, has renounced her affiliation with the Hindu outfit accused of fomenting violence against Muslims and Christians in India.

Ms. Shah, former member of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, has said if she could have anticipated the outfit’s role in the 2002 communal violence in Gujarat, she would have never associated with its U.S. branch, a year before the incident. “Had I been able to foresee the role of the VHP in India in these heinous events, or anticipate that the VHP of America could possibly stand by silently in the face of its Indian counterpart’s complicity in the events of Gujarat in 2002 — thereby undermining the American group’s cultural and humanitarian efforts with which I was involved — I would not have associated with the VHP of America,” Ms. Shah said.

In a statement, obtained and posted by NextGov and the National Journal, the Google executive said the 2002 Gujarat carnage was one of the “most profound tragedies” in the long history of the state when “extremist political leaders, including some associated with the VHP, incited riots that resulted in the deaths of thousands.”

In an E-mail sent to her supporters, Ms. Shah asked for help in combating the allegations and expressed apprehension that Mr. Obama transition team could ask her to resign.

“I need your help,” wrote Ms. Shah. “This is gaining legs as the National Journal also picked it up and likely Fox. I need to mobilise people against the leftists and the right wing. There is a likely chance that they will ask me to resign as team does not need my publicity.” Ms. Shah has formerly been with the Goldman Sachs and served as a Treasury Department official in the Clinton administration. — PTI

gp1123 :

Are you totally stupid?

First of all, I have no idea who this Eboo Patel is, or what he does. I said that in my original comments below. I don't know even know how successful he is. He very well might be, but if his entire success is based on this IYC group finding, I would n't be jealous of it, trust me.

Furthermore, you have no clue who the posters and the degree of their success, do you?

I will just ignore your ad homine attack on the Indian American community. That remark alone shows you to be a bigoted fool.

In the reply to GaijinSamurai, I clearly explained why the Indian posters are attacking Eboo's trashy piece. Try to read and understand, if you care. Otherwise, stay out of fights that don't concern you. And oh, please pick up your ethnic slurs with you while you are leaving.

GaijinSamurai,

You say you are not Indian and don't know much about India - fair enough. Then you say you read Eboo Patel's piece and think it is open minded and express surprise that people would attack his piece. That's where the trouble begins.

Eboo slips in some fairly explosive charges against the mainstream opposition parties in India; perhaps that slipped your eye. Perhaps they don't mean much to you, so you glossed over them.

His piece is the equivalent of some Brit with American ancestry writing "I believe the Republican party is a bunch of dangerous, utterly racist, religious neanderthals, who pose a huge threat to the right thinking democrats, all Americans, the world, and indeed even to the ignorant Republicans themselves". All this while the Brit is supposedly writing about some off the cuff, totally innocuous topic.

Even if you agree with the author's thinking in such a situation, you can see why it would grate a bunch of people.

Bocaj Author Profile Page:

"The VHP is like a Hindu version of the Taliban. It is virulently ant-Muslim and anti-Christian, and is responsible for some of the worst pogroms against India's minorities, the most recent being the anti-Christian pogrom in Orissa this year, in which at least 60 people (possibly hundreds) were killed and more than 50,000 were made homeless ( http://orissaburning.blogspot.com/ )."

Shame on Bocoj on spreading misinformation and hinduphobia.

Why did the riots happen in Orissa's Khamandal district? The fact is Christian fundamentalists killed 85 year old venerable monk and 4 of his associated in cold blood. This was the fourth attack on his life by Christian fanatics. This monk was the equivalent of Billy Graham for the people of Orissa.

Those christian terrorists who killed him were the aggressors and not 'persecuted minority'. It is entirely different that the backlash was severe and unexpected because 'meek pagans(Hindus) were expected to die quietly'. So the divinely ordained crusaders can go on ethnic cleansing like in Nagaland and Mizoram. Where the Christians completely ethnically cleansed Hindus.

Unfortunately for the divinely ordained, Hindus are understanding the neo colonial agenda of semitic faiths.

Many kudos for posting this - you bring a voice that shows both personal experience with the person you are talking about and a willingness to put your own credibility out to ensure that good people do not get maligned.

True to story, half the comments below turn you into a similar target. It seems that people like you and Sonal that do good have much more in common than your work - you are the targets of people who don't like that you succeed.

I'm not of Indian origin, but I am of an immigrant diaspora. It seems pretty clear that the only people that care to attack people like you who are successful are of Indian ethnicity. I wonder what that says about the maturity of that community in America.

I echo the sentiment questioning the relevance of all of this when it comes to Sonal Shah's role as an American in a history-making administration. As a first generation immigrant around the same age, I'm proud of her for being someone that is pushing the boundaries and encouraging people like me to participate more actively in American society, rather than just taking from it.

And who defines what is a flaw or error, CCNL? You? You're as fallible as the rest of us, and furthermore, you're off topic. Go "troll" your flamebait somewhere else.

I'm still hoping someone can explain to me why Ms. Shah's dealings with one or more Indian political parties should be of relevance to her role in American politics.

Correct the flaws and errors of the major religions and this would not be an issue.

Some examples of the flaws and errors:

Judaism- there was no Abraham or Moses.

Christianity- there was no bodily resurrection.

Islam- Gabriel, the foundation of the religion, is a mythical creature.

Hinduism- the caste system and worship/reverence of cows.

Buddhism-the belief in reincarnation.

Okay, not being an Indian of any type, I've got no idea of the backstory here, but everybody sounds really angry. That being said, I think Mr. Patel (who, I understand, is a Muslim) basically said there's no connection between this particular person and right wing Hindu political groups (who, I understand, dislike muslims). Furthermore, he is impressed by her. To a totally naive observer such as myself, this seems to be a very tolerant and open-handed viewpoint to espouse. However, the question, to me at least, is why should I care whether Indians like her? She's an American, right? Serving in an American administration? On American soil? Making decisions about issues related to an entirely internal transition of power between one American leader and another? Could someone explain to me, preferably using small words, why her connections, real or imaginary, to groups that are currently not trying to kill Americans, and who in fact seem to have at least some humanitarian principles, are a reason to object to her position on the Obama transition team?

Why didn’t you start your article with the “I am a Muslim” paragraph? Had you started, I would have surely known what was coming, and would have saved some time by not reading. You, and your ilk, and your negative propaganda! You have written a book? I am amazed that someone would even publish. You say that you have done some research in India, right? Then, I am sure you would know that Muslims are not natives of India. I am sure you would know all about the “Hindu Qush” mountain range, or why it was named? I am sure you would know about how the Muslim crusaders from the present Turkey region invaded India, starting from 7th century, destroyed Indian culture, literally, by destroying temples, butchering people, etc. If you don’t, better get a good history book and read that first, before showing off your ignorance. Do you know the origin of the word Jammu? It has its Sanskrit root in “Jamboo Dweepa”, which is how the subcontinent region was recognized in Vedic culture, and which is how every Hindu “pooja” begins even today (ask any Hindu priest to say the “sankalpa”). Kashmir was the center of Vedic culture, and home to scholarly Brahmin pundits. Did you even know that Kashmir was ruled by a Hindu king at the time of independence? I grew up in India watching Indian Muslims supporting and celebrating the Pakistani victories in cricket matches. Yet, you take any field, entertainment, sports, politics, etc; Indian Muslims were always encouraged by Hindus and given equal rights. For that matter, the constitution of India permits polygamy with Muslims, and forbids the same for Hindu. In my knowledge no other non Muslim country provides that privilege to Muslims. Ever watch Zee Tv? Even Pakistani singers are invited and treated with respect on those shows. In spite of all these, you take one or two “reactive” incidents, and dare to blame all Hindus? You should be ashamed to claim your Indian roots.

I think this whole article is disingenuous. This may be part a cover-up operation by Ms Shah. She was 33 years of age when she was a serving member of the VHP, and being a member of the governing board for three years she would have been fully aware of the goals and objectives of the organisation.

The VHP is like a Hindu version of the Taliban. It is virulently ant-Muslim and anti-Christian, and is responsible for some of the worst pogroms against India's minorities, the most recent being the anti-Christian pogrom in Orissa this year, in which at least 60 people (possibly hundreds) were killed and more than 50,000 were made homeless ( http://orissaburning.blogspot.com/ ).

The aim of the VHP as declared by it's founder, S. S. Apte:

The world has been divided to Christian, Islam and Communist. All of them view Hindu society as very fine rich food on which to feast and fatten themselves. It is necessary in this age of conflict to think of and organize the Hindu world to save it from the evils of all the three.

She was a co-ordinator for relief work following the the Gujarat earthquake (2001). Hindutva groups, like the VHP, were heavily involved in the earthquake relief work, appropriating overseas funds for their own communal agenda. As a co-ordinator I doubt she was unaware of how the funds were being used ( http://www.stopfundinghate.org/resources/news/UK/030704PeoplesDemocracy.htm ).

The Hindu fascists are discreetly funding hate schools in India using 'charity' money. If she gets into the cabinet, it will be a major fillip to the Hindu fascists in the US and India. It’s about time the world woke up to the horrors of Hindu terror. I know because I'm Indian from a minority community.

"Eboo Patel: Hindu Right Wrong About Sonal"

Surely, it isn't the Hindu right that is trying to link Sonal to the 'nefarious activities of Hindu nationalism'! The title of your article as displayed had me scratching my head.

Eboo,

I found a link that lists Sonal Shah as a national coordinator for a relief effort spearheaded by the VHP. To say that she wa never involved with this group is somewhat dishonest.

http://www.vhp-america.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13

I am not sure who this Eboo Patel is, or what he or his group IYC do. Reading this article however, it is obvious that he is one more of these Indian versions of Uncle Tom, a Westernized Indian, who cares nothing for the well being of a billion plus Indians, a person who has probably not lived in India, but tries to make a buck by denouncing "right wing Hindus" because it gets him a little attention and few bucks from the West. Of course, he is an Indian Muslim, so he has all the more incentive to do a bit of Hindu bashing on the side.

I have no opinion on Sonal, don't even know her. But from the little I have seen of Eboo, it is clear he has an axe to grind.

And what a shocker, he brings up how he is personally impacted by Hindu nationalists; perhaps he can meet and exchange notes with many more millions of Kashmiri Pundits, who have been killed and made refugees in their own country, or with millions of Hindus who suffered equally badly at Moslem hands in the multiple riots. In fact, until 1990s, in most of the periodic riots in India that used to erupt around religious holidays, it was invariably Hindus who suffered more. Don't expect Eboo Patel to bring that up, however - too inconvenient, eh?

I appreciate you clearing the doubts about Sonal Shah's nomination. Although i condemn violence against innocents in any form, i strongly disagree with you associating Gujarat violence only to the Hindu groups. It had become a habit for all westerners to overly react only when minorities get killed and not understanding/missing the actual root cause of the issues. You are no exception to it.