ABHAB: You say:
Peruse this one sample out of a legion.
Quran 02: 256 There is no Compulsion in religion….
OR
Quran 9: 29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith(Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.
There are many similar contradictions listed in the cite below.

I say: I have given the translation for 9:29 which is different from your twisted one. Ayn-Yadin means upfront payment, which means promises will not be acceptable. "Hand of humility" is a fabrication by folks who want to find fault with the Qur'an at all cost.
This state of affairs reminds me of a verse from the Quran that says: KhatamAllahu ala quloobehim wa ala samehim wa ala absarehim Ghishawatunwalahum adhabun azeem.
Meaning: Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their ears and over their eyes is a covering and for them there is grievous chastisement.
9:29 suggests a way of limiting bloodshed and 02:256 gives the rule: “There is no compulsion in religion. Surely the right way has become distinct from error; so whoever refuses to be led by those who transgress and believes in Allah , has surely grasped a strong handle which knows no breaking. And Allah is All-Hearing All-Knowing.
Let us concentrate on "Qad Tabayyanar rushdu minal ghayye" and look at the way you have been using "ghaye" (ill mannered erroneous behavior), by twisting my name and using all those ordinarily infuriating insults. They all depict you as someone who just does not want to know the truth and just wants to cut and paste any insults and lies against Islam and Muslims that are available out there, perhaps for money.
Muhammad Zafrullah

Jamil:
You interject yourself in a dialogue between me and the Z man, not to enlighten us with your superior intellect and knowledge but to tear us down. You started out by patronizing the Z guy, then you turned to me and issued me a veiled threat and went on from there to plant the seed of doubt in Ali Sina‘s courage and integrity. Why not be constructive and answer some of those contradictions he listed ? I tell you why not. Because neither you nor anyone else could. Your Quran is riddled with inconsistencies, illogical fallacies, historical blunders, scientific heresies , geographical mistakes and grammatical errors.
If Ali Sina’s is not to your taste, below is a more exhaustive one.
http://www.carm.org/islam/Koran_contradictions.htm

Saudis are nothing more than ignorant, arrogant bigots. I read the Arabnews daily to get their pathetic perspective on the world. The arabs didnt even know what oil was let alone the internet until the west showed them and gave them an economy. - and now these bastards act like they built the world. Pointing fingers while they sit back an tell the world how smart and noble they are. FU sauidis

That's not the full extent of the King's hypocrisy. He recently called the world's Islamic, Jewish and Christian leaders to a conference to find strategies to convert agnostics, atheists, humanists, etc., to one of the three major monotheistic religions. He called it "unnacceptable" that many people do not adhere to one of the three major religions. This is not religious pluralism! It is clear and unequivocal intolerance. Shame on King Abdullah and the "leaders" who participated in his conference.

ABHAB

You know that the Muslim adore their religion and give utmost respect to Allah and His Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)And to the Holy Quran.
Your purpose is not to indulge in a discussion for the sake of learning or scholarship but to smear the facts, to use abusive language mixed with pack of lies.So that you can hurt the feelings of one who, in his simplicity, thought to have meaningful discussions with you.
If your reference sites are real truth seekers let them put the Whole book Quran on their website so the readers could themself see how you take the thing out of context to create your pack of lies.
We are glad that the younger generation of muslims are more intimately attached to their faith and wonderfully balancing themselves with the modern learning and progress.

ABHAB

Let me know what you believe in.
You have taken enough explainations for the others now it should be your turn
What you think?

ABHAB

What malicious intentions you have, when you tell someone to visit a site by a shameful lier like stupid ali sina. His timidity has found refuge in websites. Your scholarship is appriciateable when you find references by a hate monger who do not show his face to the public,darkness stays in dark.
Zafrullah is right when he says that as a muslim he knows what to believe in and you are no one to claim that you know the religion better.
Yes, there is no complusion in Islam as no one enters Islam but as per his sweet will.
And filth is either cleaned or a lid is kept.
over it.
Hope you understand my point of view.

Z man explains:
“It appears that when Syrian military was defeated the citizens wrote those conditions and not Omar.”
Moi:
Now it is the Christians of Greater Syria who wrote those conditions on themselves. Omar was merely interested in only two of its items; the striking of a Muslim and buying a Muslim’s slave. The other scores of humiliating and marginalizing terms that relegated the indigenous populations to a third class status were the wishes of the conquered people. You must really take us for idiots.

Z man
“You talk of contradictions in Islam, I do not see any. I am a Muslim you are not.”
Moi:
Off course you do not see any contradictions. Your scriptures states that if it had any inconsistencies it could not be from Allah and surely you could not have that.

Peruse this one sample out of a legion.
Quran 02: 256 There is no Compulsion in religion….
OR
Quran 9: 29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith(Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.
There are many similar contradictions listed in the cite below.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/contradictions.htm

MZafrallah

I appriciate your efforts here but the problem is that some of them are professional bloggers who just copy/paste here and there. There aim is to vilify Islam and muslims.
They twist the facts with pack of lies.
Also you will find here few whose upper chamber is empty and they are hate mongers.
They burn with rage against Islam day and night, is't it a punishment for them?.

ABHA B: (Part II) What is worse and really shameful for a person of your “declared capabilities” is the fact that you did not read the reference you offered:
[[This policy was applied to all Christians and Jews, not only the ones living in Arabia. …. It became institutionalized in what is called the Omar Pact cited below.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html]]

If the People of the Book were to be fought and humiliated before they agreed to become loyal subjects, why did Omar grant “aman” to the civilians of Syria? It appears that when Syrian military was defeated the citizens wrote those conditions and not Omar. He added what he was most concerned about: "They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims," and "WHOEVER STRIKES a Muslim WITH DELIBRATE INTENT shall FORFEIT the PROTECTION of this pact."
By the way those “marauding Arab hordes” were not physical supermen, they were kind. That is essentially why the civilians would open the gates of their cities, for them, against the wishes of their military. (This is what I try to impress upon the hateful mullahs.) Also by the way for a long time there was no extra tax for non-Muslims in Spain, but when mischief was discovered it was, half heartedly, introduced.
Muhammad Zafrullah

ABHAB: (Part I) Thanks for twisting my name! The name is Zafrullah. It is a good thing that you can read Arabic. It is quite understandable that even though you claim excellence in Arabic you found it very hard to understand just one verse. For the record: You tried to mislead readers of your post by saying:
[[Quran 9:29 “Fight those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger…..” How many different ways can this gem be interpreted? Or put differently, what context would make this verse a call for tolerance and harmony? ]]
Knowing the tricks the hate mongers play on the unwary I gave full translation of the verse and a bit of explanation I would keep the translation here:
[[Qur'an Majeed (9:29): Fight those from among the People of the Book who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favor and acknowledge their subjection.
You came back with: You do not need to translate it for me because I can read it in its original Arabic language.
Rest in the other part.

ABHAB:
You say: Their Allah changes His mind whenever He thinks up a better verse.
Note that "Aya" means "verse" as well as "sign". So what you are referring to may well read something different. Also it is us who believe what our Allah says. Why are you so worried? Why make all that fuss over us? Could it be that with all that distortion you are trying to "establish" that these Muslims do not know what to believe in, lets get rid of them? It is in vogue these days.
You talk of contradictions in Islam, I do not see any. I am a Muslim you are not. There could be some problems with some Muslims' actions, but what religion has angels for followers? You cannot blame a religion for what some of its followers do.
Muhammad Zafrullah

Truthhurts:

“I do indeed agree with you that in the foundation of all religions there is (or at least was) truth.”

This is a roundabout way for this guy you addressed along with me to tell you and me what he and all his coreligionists believe about our religions; they are forged. Their reasoning for that is because our scriptures do not foretell the coming of their prophet as they had wished. With the same breath they claim that their religion calls for plurality and respect of the other and their beliefs. The saddest part of all of this is they do not seem to see the contradictions in such a statement or in their scriptures. Except they refer to the more flagrant ones that could not in anyway be ignored as "abrogation" sanctioned by their Allah i.e. Their Allah changes His mind whenever He thinks up a better verse.

Muhammad Zafrullah, I stand corrected thank-you for not taking offense. I am familiar with many sources of misinformation both in private and public domain. In the past, participants on these message boards have encouraged me to read and study facts and opinions some having more worth than others to me. I like doing my own homework myself, keeps the mind busy.

Mr. Patel:

You write: "Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews while its own swimming pools and water fountains were segregated."

I wish I could sincerely ask if this was intended as humor, but I can see it was not. What you write is factually incorrect, and concerns a major piece of American history. No educated American could possibly believe such rubbish. Again, this is not a matter of opinion, but of fact.

And how do we square your shocking lack of knowledge with your bio on this blog:

"Eboo has a doctorate in the sociology of religion from Oxford University, where he studied on a Rhodes scholarship."

If we view your ignorance of US conduct in the WWII European theatre in light of the credentials you present, we see a picture in which something is very wrong.

Very wrong, indeed.

TRUTHHURTS: Thanks. By the way my name is Muhammad Zafrullah and not what ABHAB called me and following him you did. This ABHAB fellow seems to be an expert at distortion. If I cannot trust him with my name how can I trust him with the half and misleading translation of a verse from a holy book?
I do indeed agree with you that in the foundation of all religions there is (or at least was) truth.
Muhammad Zafrullah

"In addition, the Saudis have the world's largest oil reserves and the immense wealth they generate. Why do the Shia in Saudi Arabia live in such poverty, amid all this wealth? The same question goes for the Palestinians. Why do they live in wretched refugee camps when their brother arabs have but to sign the check and they'd all be living in decency. For what they spend trying to murder Israelis, the Saudis could have every Palestinian and Shia driving to work in Beamers."

The "House of Saud," a colonialist imposition hoped that by exporting terror and antisemitism, it might eliminate some of its own. No such luck; that is they certainly increased terror in other countries, notably Pakistan, but terror in SA continues. The oppressed in SA are not only Shia, btw. There are plenty of poor Sunni there, plenty of poor Wahabi.

Then, of course, there is the treatment of foreign workers, among them Palestinians, about whose plight there much has been written. Ditto the Palestinians in Egypt, those who weren't deported, and even in Jordan where they are the majority.

There is, despite everything, a legitimate Palestinian middle class. Not all Palestinians are poor. There are as well, old, powerful, wealthy families, who have strangleholds on various parts of Palestine. Some also have homes in the US and elsewhere. I know one such family quite well.

Then there are the nouveau thieves, those who steal money intended for the people, who have four Mercedes, etc. One of them was Arafat's nephew, whom the Palestinian people killed with their own hands.

Abhab and Fazrullah, only truly good universal doctrine I have found to be useful states that Truth is the basis of all religious authority.

I found this Christian essay from the 1960s to be of interest. Essay uses the Greek myth of Procrustes to describe a Christian tendency to enforce comformity:

http://www.freedomsring.org/heritage/chap17.html

Thanks for your contributions to this thread.

The Saudi's could do a lot to help this and a slew of other problems if they'd stop supporting the madrassas.

How many young men in the world right now, are poisoned beyond help with the hatred that is taught in these despicable institutions of jihad.

In addition, the Saudis have the world's largest oil reserves and the immense wealth they generate. Why do the Shia in Saudi Arabia live in such poverty, amid all this wealth? The same question goes for the Palestinians. Why do they live in wretched refugee camps when their brother arabs have but to sign the check and they'd all be living in decency. For what they spend trying to murder Israelis, the Saudis could have every Palestinian and Shia driving to work in Beamers.

Fazrullah answers my post thus:
"ABHAB: Thanks for proving my point for me. Let me first give you the translation of the complete verse." (Q9:29).
Moi:
You do not need to translate it for me because I can read it in its original Arabic language.
Yet even in your distorted translation there is no mention of the fighting being conditional to any disloyal activity, unless considering not believing in the prophethood of Mohammad as such. The verse is clear; the People of the Book are to be fought and humiliated for who they are and not for what they might do.

You say:
"This verse refers to those People of the Book who lived in Arabia during those times"
Moi:
This policy was applied to all Christians and Jews, not only the ones living in Arabia. The ones living in Arabia were ethnically cleansed. Your prophet made that order on his deathbed. This supremacist ideology relegated the indigenous Christians and Jews in the those lands that had been violated by the marauding desert hordes to a chastened and controlled third class status. It became institutionalized in what is called the Omar Pact cited below.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

This mode of bending the necks of verses to make them say what they do not say is a technique favored by Muslim proselytes. It might work with people in Somalia, Pakistan and Afghanistan but would not work here. We know more about your cult than you think you know.

"The linguistic term, "SEMITIC" refers to a family of languages"

Quite. It was developed in the nineteenth century, where it was expanded by EuroChristians to reify a nonexistent people. The "term" anti-Semitism took on the sense of anti-Jewishness, thence anti-Jewish racism, enabling those who held antisemitic views not to think of themselves as racists.

In the late twentieth century, Jewish scholars, well-aware of the original application of the term "semitic" and its historic distortions changed the spelling to antisemitism to signify that there is not now nor has there ever been a people "Semite," that it is simply reification, racism. Antisemitism is now used interchangeably with anti-Jewish racism.

Historically, the term has not been used to mean anti-Arab, which, of course, is not to say that there is no anti-Arab racism.

ShibliZaman:

Farnaz2 is correct in noting the following: "...Israel is the only country in the region where Muslim have rights, can vote in legitimate elections, and are legitimately represented in the Parliament."

This is a factual statement, and one you cannot refute. It is also a fact that Gazans aren't citizens of Israel... and there is no reason why they should be.

How many times, those kings of Arab world including Saudi King have spoken about Caliphate?
The answer is never since Caliphate was destroyed and abolished. Rest is here in:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=The+Judgment+Against+Imperialism%2C+Fascism+and+Racism+Against+Caliphate+and+Islam&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=The+Election+of++Caliph%2FKhalifah+and+World+Peace&btnG=Search

Thanks

The linguistic term, "SEMITIC" refers to a family of languages including Hebrew, Arabic etc. So, if any one uses the term anti-semitic, it would mean both Anti-Jew and Anti-Arab.

Persian belongs to Indo-European family of languages. It is not a semitic language.

No one should hate Jews, Arabs, or Christians or any other religion. We must acknowledge the differences in our belief systems but that does not mean hating people for their differences.

Tolerance means "live and let others live." Having different faiths or skin colors, or languages makes our world more interesting.

There is nothing wrong for a Black or Hispanic family to have a desire for good life provided they work for it. The same applies to Whites also.

ABHAB: Thanks for proving my point for me. Let me first give you the translation of the complete verse.
Qur'an Majeed (9:29): Fight those from among the People of the Book who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favor and acknowledge their subjection.

This verse refers to those People of the Book who lived in Arabia during those times. Like the idolaters they also had been actively hostile to Islam and had actively planned and plotted to exterminate it. They were still showing signs of defiance and rebellion and you cannot run a country peacefully if you have some rebels in your midst. Muslims were ordered to fight them unless they agreed to live as loyal and peaceful subjects. What is wrong with that? Also note that the fighting that was ordered was conditional, meaning that if those people agreed to be peaceful and agreed to pay tax there would be no war.
You cannot, like some mullahs, just wrench a verse or a part of it from the context and spread hate.
Muhammad Zafrullah

Neither Jews nor Christians recognize the prophet Mohammed. Violence against Jews by Muslims is documented in Qu'ran. One thinks of the Quorayza Jews. As well, there is vile language is used against both groups in the same text.

The New (sic) Testament claims it supercedes the Tanakh and it's also antisemitic. The Christians introduced the concept of Pure Blood, limpe pura, pura sangre, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions. The writings of Christian theologians, most recently the Pope is rife with anti-Islamic sentiment. Qu'ran claims Mohammed is the last prophet. Then came Joseph Smith who supercedes all.

Supersessionist ideology is a dangerous thing. In the hands of the powerful, it is deadly. Religion marries nation states, powerful interests
emerge, and one sees two thousand years of bloodshed, oceans of blood.

Time to stop looking at holy texts for reasons to hate one another. It leads to ignorance as in Patel's statements on WWII, hatred, and violence.

Muslims refer to Jews and Christians as 'The People of the Books' and Islam regards itself as a continuation of the monotheistic tradition established by Abraham.


This does not mean that the three faiths are identical. The Christian belief in Trinity and the Jewish denial of Prophets Jesus and Mohammad are the sources of disagreements between the followers of these three great monotheistic religions.


Nevertheless, the Quran still assigns a special place to Christians and Jews as is evident from many verses, including this one:
"And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our God and your God is One and we are committed to observe peace before Him (Al-Ankabut: 46)."

Apart from the differences of details, the long history of political conflict between Islam and Christianity has tended to color the West's view of Islam. In the wake of 9/11 politicians and sections of the media have tended to portray Islam as a religion that preaches perpetual war on the followers of other faiths.


In this well-orchestrated campaign, reference is often made to those verses of the Quran (the collection of which took place over 22 years) which were revealed in actual battle conditions when Muslims were fighting for their survival. Reading them out of context would obviously lead to a gross misunderstanding of the teachings of Islam.

A genuine dialog requires looking both inward and outward. Muslim intellectuals must work not only for the rejection of extremism but also chart a strategy to bring modernity to their community.

Zafrullah chides me thus:
“My usual point is: there is already enough strife in the world let us not worsen it with misquotes and misinformation.”

Quran 9:29 “Fight those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger…..” How many different ways can this gem be interpreted? Or put differently, what context would make this verse a call for tolerance and harmony?
I am accused of fostering strife by simply highliting the above verse and similar ones. How about the author(s), purveyors and marketers of this and all the other similar gems that fill your scriptures? Are they peacemakers?

chorpophone:

Interesting comment. Didn't know the brain-dead could post.

Procrutes, doth thou still lurkist in the shadow, tsk, tsk, tsk. Beware thou, of the Ides of January. Nearer doth history rush forward. Such are the wayeth of comedy. Yours should have known too well. The warnings left unheedeth.

Is it politics or is it religion the UN address was concerned about?

Commentators here appear to have an ideology, an agenda, irrespective of what the goal of the address was about.

Ideology is counter productive to espousing relevant arguments.

religious pluralism? who cares?!
the saudis torture many many people regularly. there are secret 'police'. there is no freedom of press or expression. there is public torture and execution. they are the leading contributors of terrorism all over the world. they operate their oil industry like mobsters and have consistently misstated the amount of oil in their reserves, which will create the biggest economic bubble to have ever burst, a crime from which they, and many other nations, will not recover. they have secretly undermined many attempts at democratizing arab and muslim countries, contributed greatly to the wars in the balkans and ex-soviet states (for which russia should pay huge reparations), and have the most evil and backwards domestic laws on the planet.
further more, how can isreal's hypocritical opinion of saudi arabia be taken seriously? the western world continues to be isreal's main source of power, despite 500 years of attempting to exterminate the jewish peoples. the holocaust industry, wealthy jews in politics, academics looking for a quick way to become published, and spoiled victim-worshipers looking for an excuse to feel self-righteous have all created the western support for isreal that exists today, none of these having to do with 'religious pluralism'. further more, any talk of religious pluralism by a group of people who routinely talk of themselves as "god's chosen people" is silly at best. the isrealis have their own secret police, they have institutionalized torture, they continue to flamboyantly break international laws, have sold illegal weapons to rogue states, have played a big part in the heroin industry to fund their illegal operations, (a la CIA and the KGB), have a second class citizenship which are subject to numerous human rights abuses, have concentrated the palestinians into camps, continually steal more and more of their land, kill elderly and children with no remorse or mercy, and have obtained a nuclear weapon illegally. of course, every other country in the middle east is just as bad or worse than isreal. but that is my whole point. what is wrong with the middle east is not lack of religious pluralism. to claim that that will solve any problem in the middle east is disgusting.

ABHAB: Thanks for offering all those references from the Quran. Usually such "references" turn out to be lifted out of context and/or based on ignorance. I have treated some of them in http://www.lohar.com/Attacks_on_Islam.pdf
and in http://www.lohar.com/is_islam_a_cruel_religion.pdf
My usual point is: there is already enough strife in the world let us not worsen it with misquotes and misinformation.
Muhammad Zafrullah

the Saudis do not follow the Saufi sect but the Wahhabi one, there is a great difference, please get your facts right.

Eboo, Dear,

"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews"

Look up this date: December 7, 1941. (Ask Mommie to help you.)

Then explore this topic (again, Dear, ask Mommie to help): History of American antisemitism

With Mommie's help, check this out: Why the US didn't bomb the tracks leading to concentration camps

The German-American Bundt,

Etc., etc., etc.,

Mommie will help, Eboo, Dear. Just ask.

Eboo, was the Sabbath made for man or was man made for the Sabbath, a question posed by JC centuries ago and still argued today. Shall we heal this economy today or shall we wait until tomorrow, interesting.

There could be an Awakening movement started here in the United States through Politics. Young people seem to accept and adapt to change far better than the status quo crowd so I applaud you Eboo for your personal efforts.

I expect the year 2009 to be a year of revelations. In order to restore trust in modern government, discovery leading to accountability seems to be the wisdom of elders. Same logic produced the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) in the years after the Nixon Regime. Those efforts to shine a light of truth onto modern government came from both Presidents Ford and Carter.

I think that reformation of our Democracy will come through adherence to the Constitution, upholding Rule of Law and Foresight which guides the way to a more perfect union for generations to come, God Willing.

Recently, I have heard of an immigration case that was heart wrenching to me. A young man from Mexico had been in the United States illegally for over six (6) years. This man has a 3 year old child with a United States citizen. The man was caught breaking the Law and was swiftly deported back to Mexico in just a few short weeks. The system and the individuals involved created another fatherless child. It ain't right.

Somewhere deep in my heart, I believe that the Grace of God or blessings to our Nation are dependent upon our actions as a Nation. I really don't believe in a punishing God but an omniscient, omnipotent and all loving Entity well beyond the scope of my imagination.

If we were to look at this coming Holiday Season as joyous occasions, many may not find happiness due to the pains of war, and insecurities due to housing and economic hardship. And real threats of terrorism along fearing Terrorism are with us today. Remember the statements "There are hundreds of Terrorism Cells sleeping in America" and "What if a dirty suitcase bomb were to be smuggled across across our borders ?".

Most of us can be grateful for food, clothing, some kind of shelter (a roof over our heads) and transportation optional. Perhaps part of our own Awakening may be that extreme materialism is not really a noble goal in life to be pursued through debt incursions or otherwise.

President Lincoln wrote that most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be (happy). Beware of delusional happiness for the cameras. But let us hope for a Happy Thanksgiving.

Of course we could put those less fortunate than ourselves on top of the list. Do as they say, not as they do.

Fortunately, we don't have our own anti-semit err blindspots.

America entered WWII after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. December 7, 1941--check the date, Eboo, dear.

Not only did the US not enter WWII to "save Jews" but it actually kept information from the US regarding the torturing to death of Jews all over Europe both before and after the US entered the war.

This was done in league with the New York Times.
Hundreds of books and thousands of articles have been written about this.

The fifteen hundred Franciscans (Croat) the ordinary Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, Hungarian, Estonian, Rumanian, etc., etc., people, ordinary citizens who participated all over Europe, the Franciscans who cut people up with scissors, the Vatican, which still has the Franciscan loot, are not even mentioned today in the history books most students read.

And so it goes...but the same good Christians and Muslims read the same garbage they always did. As in "the (sic) Jews" are trying to get McCain elected!!!

Now, of course, it is a fact that the majority of Jews have always been Democrats regardless of class, much unlike the Protestants, Christians/Catholics, Muslims, et al.

And it is a fact that seventy-eight per cent of all Jewish voters voted for Obama, yet the public, for the most part, is unaware of this. Indeed, when I had my students look up the ethnic breakdown of voters in this presidential election and the voting history of the different ethno-religious groups, they were shocked.

Why, they asked, were we given the impression that Jews were Republicans? That they were voting for McCain?

Ask who benefits, I replied. Always, always, ask who benefits.

They are an honors class, very bright. I'm hoping for one or two publishable articles from them on this. One has already started researching anti-semitism in the US and is headed to researching the phenomena historically.

I haven't told them about the three million Middle Eastern Jews in exile, one of whom I am. They know just a wee bit more than Patel about WWII at this point, nothing about current anti-semitism here and world wide. Interesting, isn't it. The most recently Christianized nation is Korea, now both Christian and virulently anti-semitic. Them's the missionaries fer ya.

The same ones who brought modern anti-semitism to the Middle East.

Don't want to look at our own anti-semit err blindspots.

And while at it, may be Saudi Arabia will become tolerant enough to allow other faiths like Christianity and Hinduism to grow in Saudi Arabia just as Islam demands right to exist and grow in non-Islamic countries. Afterall why can’t there be a Christian church and a Hindu temple in Mecca and Medina if there are Muslim mosques in Rome and Ayodhya? And all Islamic countries will erase laws that forbid religious conversions. And all Islamic countries will give equal rights to their women. And all religions should have equal right to exist everywhere on this God’s earth and Kafirs have as much right to exist and prosper as devout Muslims regardless of what Koran preaches. And Muslims do not have to wage a jihad against Kafirs simply because Koran preaches so.

Jameschirico opines:

“so when tolerance is disregarded by the Wahabi's, they are committing an offense against (Muslim ) faith.”

Intolerance is the core of the Muslim faith. It openly calls for the killing of pagans and idolaters and for oppressing and humiliating the People of the Book i.e. Jews and Christians. The Wahabis are simply more honest with themselves and the others.
The Qur'an promises hell to non-Muslims 3:85, 4:56, 5:37, 5:72, 8:55, 9:28, 15:2, 21:98-100, 22:19-22, 22:56-57, 25:17-19, 25:55, 29:53-55, 31:13, 66:9, 68:10-13, 72:14- 15,
The Qur'an warns Muslims against mixing with non-Muslims 2:21, 3:28, 3:118, 5:51, 5:144, 9:7, 9:28, 58:23, 60:4.
The Qur'an calls on Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims 2:191, 2:193, 4:66, 4:84, 5:33, 8:12, 8:15-18, 8:39, 8:59-60, 8:65, 9:2-3, 9:5, 9:14, 9:29, 9:39, 9:73, 9:111, 9:123, 25:52, 37:22-23, 47:4-5, 48:29, 69:30-37.
The Qur'an promotes war against the non-Muslims by glorifying it 2:216, 9:41, 49:15, or by promising lust in paradise to the Shaheeds (martyrs) who die in such a war 3:142, 3:157-158, 9:20-21.
http://www.geocities.com/islamic_monitor/intolerance.htm -

Biggest terrorist sect in the world, the Wahabi's have their base in Saudi Arabia. The world would be better off with an invasion by a coalition of moderate muslim countries to take back the Holy Land from the perverters of the Quran. Islam does not tolerate differing from their dictated to Mohammed word of God, so when tolerance is disregarded by the Wahabi's, they are committing an offense against faith. When Islam complains about collateral damage in drone attacks, I remind them that the families of the innocents harmed have a right to a proper revenge. An eye for an eye is part of their faith, as is some people of the book being righteous and going to heaven. When the west is considered the Great Satan in totality, it is not in line with the Quran.

Fortunately we don't have our own moral Gaza Stri . . ., I mean, blindspots.

Saudis are neither our friends nor our ally.
We just kiss their royal a*ses for their oil.

A little knowledge -- like, say, the most elementary level of literacy to read newspapers and nothing more -- is, as our elders have taught us from time immemorial, a very dangerous thing indeed.

To read all the anti-Muslim and anti-Islamic hatred in these comments, one would hardly believe that Gordon Brown of Britain had, just before leaving for Washingtin D.C. to participate in the ongoing Global Summit of the Financial Crisis, completed a tour of Muslim Arab countries to seek their help in shoring up the devastated finances of the IMF. (And, yes, Mr. Patel, thse countries that Brown visited are mostly Sunni countries, although I myself and 99.9999% of the Sunni Muslims I know don't differentiate betwen Sunni and Shi'a).

Ah, well! Blissful ignorance!

ShibliZaman, Novel Cartographer:

"Btw., Turkey is not in the Middle East. Your knowledge of geography matches Patel's knowledge of history."

Turkey is not in the Middle East? Where is it then? Texas? The city of Van, Turkey (as are many other cities in Turkey) is DRIVING DISTANCE from Iraq, Iran and Syria both of which are smack dab in the Middle East.

Out of the total land, 97% is in Asia and this part is called Anatolia or Asia Minor; 3% is in Europe which is called Thrace.

______________________________________________

Please see the following.

http://www.google.com/search?q=turkey+asia+or+europe&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Also, please contact the Turkish embassy with your novel geographic insight and counscil them to advise their nation to give up forever their attempts to join the EU, since Turkey is a Middle Eastern nation.

Perhaps you and Patel could co-author a geography/history book. Start looking about for titles.

I propose "The Islamofacist Moron's Guide to Place and Time."

An article about a Shiite Muslim theologian in Germany in today's Wall St Journal says that the theologian declared there was no Mohammed.

He has been advised to watch out for his life in Germany.

Under the circumstances today religion should be outlawed. It has been the source of wars since the beginning of time. More people have died because of their religious beliefs than any other cause of death. Entire religious populations have been exterminated because of what they believe. This world will never mend their differences. We can't just beleve what we believe. Different religions sects have to exert their beliefs on others. Even within one religious sect people can't agree. I am a spiritual person yet my beliefs are not accepted because I won't put a label on them. People have now and will always believe that, how they believe is the only way and we will not stop until we kill ourselves off.

Ah, Mr Patel says America fought WW2 for the Jews.
Which madrassa did he study history in?
It seems that he is no less radical than the radicals he criticizes.

Saving the Saudi king, Eboo and all the other Muslims out there from centuries of the Three B Syndrome i.e. being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Islam: The Free Five Point Program-

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.
"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

Eboo -- I agree with a lot of what you said in your post. Except that like many other Western writers, you write about the attitudes towards Shias, Jews and Christians, as if these were the only religions that matter in the Saudi kingdom or elsewhere in the world.

There are sizeable pockets of Hindus and Buddhists in the kingdom whose religious rights are laughable at best. And what's more, by virtue of being "idolaters", it seems as if Muslims would agree with the religious restrictions placed on them, even while they would have some qualms about people of the Book.

And it is also your hypocrisy or blindspot - I don't know which it is - that you want only to address the issues of the Book people and not all religionists.

The overriding cultural feature of the middle east is that everyone is a victim of their culture. Everyone professes liberalism but no one has the courage for action. Even the King of Saudi Arabia is a victim. Cry me a river.

Shiblizaman retorts to my post indignantly:

“What on EARTH does that (House of Peace) have to do with any declaration of war between Muslims and Non-Muslims”.
When you declare yourself to belong to the House of Peace and everyone else belong to the House of War, you are inciting separation and intolerance by implying that you are peaceful and everybody else is out to get you. Got that or you need me to repeat?
Secondly you completely ignored the many other scriptures that I had quoted which call for humiliating the other and discriminating and fighting against him.
You did the same with Farnaz; picked on one little item and ignored the rest. Turkey is in the Middle East and Allah willing should stay in the Middle East, but its people want to be identified with Europe just like the Bosnians who are quick to remind us they are Europeans and do not wish to be identified in any way with anywhere else.

Saudis are only following the teachings of Mohammed. Plus there are 57 other nations, who call themselves Islamic republics- an insult to any non-Muslims still living there.

Now that the grunts have been sorted out, may I address the actual theme of the article itself.

I find Eboo's lack of vision quite disconcerting. You remind me a lot of the fools amongst America's Muslims (the minority, thank God) whom will never be satisfied with any Presidential candidate unless he completely disavows Israel.

What would King Abdullah achieve if he suddenly reversed every single seemingly discriminatory law in Saudi Arabia overnight? Would that change the condition of the PEOPLE THEMSELVES? Absolutely not. Saudi Arabia is in need of REFORM, not lip service from Kings. You all completely ignore the measures that King Abdullah has taken to marginalize, and in many cases FIRE, Imams whose message has been no short of incendiary. At the same time he has allotted a higher profile to reformist Shaykhs like Salman al-`Awdah.

Change in a society takes time. If you can't see the caution with which King Abdullah has to take his steps then I'm afraid you discredit your own analyses.

So we see both "ABHAB" and "FARNAZ2" go from ridiculous to outright incoherent.

ABHAB said in response to the fact that this "House of Peace" for Muslims and "House of War" for Non-Muslims as some sort of declaration of war ad infinitum was utter nonsense:

"The term House of Peace appears in the Koran in 6.127 as a name of Paradise"

Let us see what verse 6:127 says:

"For them is the abode of peace with their Lord. He will be their Protecting Friend because of what they used to do."

What on EARTH does that have to do with any declaration of war between Muslims and Non-Muslims.

It gets even more insipid from FARNAZ2 who beats out Sarah Palin with the following:

"Btw., Turkey is not in the Middle East. Your knowledge of geography matches Patel's knowledge of history."

Turkey is not in the Middle East? Where is it then? Texas? The city of Van, Turkey (as are many other cities in Turkey) is DRIVING DISTANCE from Iraq, Iran and Syria both of which are smack dab in the Middle East. Finally, please see the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East#Territories_and_regions

The rest was mere drivel. I am grateful to both of you for displaying how bereft of actual information you are.

Hate crumbles when dashed upon the rock of knowledge.

Well said as usual, Eboo. I lived in Bahrain for a dozen years and visited Saudi on occasion. The Shi'a are, in fact, a marginalized and sometimes persecuted minority as you point out. Expatriate Christians are not allowed to worship at all in Saudi. Groups gathering for prayer can be arrested and deported. Bibles are confiscated at all ports of entry. This is not a country which shows any signs of being open to positive interfaith relations.

Yet I, like you, hold out some hope from this. I believe this may, in fact, signal the willingness of the Saudi authorities to stand up to the extremists among them to do what they need to do to gain respectability in the world community. Until they take steps to allow freedom of worship for guests in their country and give Shi'a Muslims the same access to power and employment as Salafi Sunnis, it will remain only a hope.

Hypocrisy or tolerance? Right now it's hypocrisy.

Shiblizaman pontificates to me thus:
“Some scholars of JURISPRUDENCE in the 12th Century AD may have hypothesized some "House of War" or "House of Peace" distinction in the midst of the European Crusades.”

The term House of Peace appears in the Koran in 6.127 as a name of Paradise
So it is not a 12th Century innovation, but as usual all shortcomings of Mohammedans are always attributed to everyone else but themselves.
How about the following Quran verses for tolerance and plurality?
{The infidels are your sworn enemies. Quran 4:101}
{Prophet, make war on the infidels. Quran 66: 9}
{Never be a helper to the disbelievers. Quran 28:86}

How about those other Quran verses that describe the non-Muslims as pigs, dogs, donkeys and stupider than cattle? Does that smell like tolerance or plurality in your understanding?
This mumbo jumbo double talk about the one to one relationship with Allah in your religion without any intercession (of Mohammad) is hogwash that you might be able to sell to desert nomads or to Afghani peasants, but you cannot sell it here. We know more about your cult than you and you’re your ilk will ever learn.

Eboo makes a good point: Hypocrisy or not, there's no reason not to hope that an articulation of religious diversity and tolerance just may nudge the country toward a more just society. I'm not a Saudi Arabia watcher to know how powerful the King is. This may indeed be his way of urging his country toward progress.

Time will tell. If it turns out to be empty rhetoric, Saudi Arabia will remain the vilain most non-Muslims (and many Muslims, too) think it is. If the King really means it, and the country enters the modern world slowly but surely, then his words will have had some effect.

I think we should welcome King Abdullah’s initiative on pluralism, and hope that His Majesty will put his money where his mouth is and preach religious tolerance also to the militant mullahs of Muslim countries.
Religious freedom was one of the main gifts Islam gave the world at a time when religious tolerance was nonexistent. The fact is, according to the Qur'an, the decision to punish disbelievers, rests with God Almighty; though fighting off people who would use force to disrupt peace was permitted. But it is a sad fact that today powerful Muslim clergy are ready to prescribe death for anyone whose faith they do not understand. They have twisted the teachings of Islam so that now some folks under their influence believe that it is permitted to kill a non-Muslim without any provocation and without any excuse. Apparently 9/11 was the result of this kind of baseless ideology being preached.

While attacks similar to 9/11 have taken place, albeit at a smaller scale, in Spain, Britain and in other countries they are rare as compared to what some Muslims do to each other. Sunnis attacking the Shiites and vice versa are quite well-documented, yet there are many more instances of faith related hate-killings in Muslim countries. The usual story behind faith related killings in Muslim countries is that a mullah declares, in a Friday sermon, followers of a certain sect non-Muslim and exhorts his audience to kill them and promises paradise in return. In response some seekers of paradise go and make life a living hell for some hapless families by killing their bread winners. (I know of some stories of murder and mistreatment of members of the Ahmadiyya Community in Islam, from Bangladesh, Indonesia, and Pakistan.)

I must hasten to point out that Muslims are not the only champions in the field of hate and intolerance. Mr. Bush was able to launch the Iraq war because he had support from various religious organizations. What makes this episode of history interesting is that Iraq is decimated and the US is on the brink of economic meltdown.

Finally the billion dollar question, “What should we do?” Educate. Educate the population of the world and not just about religion. A major chunk of the world population is poor because they do not have enough education to earn adequate living, and poverty breeds all sorts of ills and hatred of the unfamiliar is one of them. I suggest that King Abdullah should set up a fund to help impoverished countries improve their education systems. On the religious front I suggested interfaith conferences some time ago in http://www.lohar.com/walls.pdf it may be a bit hard reading in the beginning, but towards the end it becomes more relevant to the topic at hand.
Muhammad Zafrullah

Eboo Patel does not appear to be a well wisher of Muslims. Although he claims to be involved in promoting interfaith cooperation, yet he brings a disgruntled Shia Muslim's complaint in an effort to create further division among Shias and Sunnis. This is contrary to what we do and supposed to do in promoting mutual understanding through interfaith dialog. His article is biased in the sense that it does not depict how Sunni Muslim minority is being mistreated in Shia Muslim Iran. This I have said to make my point. Where as Shia Sunni differences are Muslim nation's internal affair and we do not need Eboo Patel to increase the fight between the two brothers.

Mistreatment of minorities is not just Saudi Arabia. Look at India. How Muslims are being killed in Kashmir; how Muslims were butchered in Gujarat, and the destruction of Babri Mosque by the majority Hindu party Government. And continuously Hindus are being preferred over Muslims in Indian Government jobs, higher education, in businesses and in every walk of daily life.

The Muslim population is more than a billion. A less than a tenth of a percent criminal element is involved in terrorist activities and the Bush administration and its supporter Neocons are labeling and treating the entire Muslim population as terrorists. Where as majority of the non-Muslim world has become a silent partner in it. Muslims are being victimized all over the world in the twentieth and twenty first century more than any other community.
However, no country is perfect in dealing with her minorities and you are blaming only Saudi Arabia who needs to safe guard her places of worship that are visited by the millions of Muslims from around the globe to fulfill their religious pilgrimage requirements.

Saudi King has tried to make a sincere effort to promote religious tolerance and put a stop to insulting established religious symbols. What he is saying is let us treat each other with respect and understanding. This is the message that should not be lost in finding faults in each other.

MAK

If anyone believes in Arab tolerance, I suggest you get the book "Understanding Arabs" which is used as a standard text in the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security. Pay particular attention to the factors which define Arab culture.

Simple answer. Hypocrisy!

ShibliZaman

Btw., Turkey is not in the Middle East. Your knowledge of geography matches Patel's knowledge of history.

Spare us the Islamofacist ignorance and propaganda.

ShibliZaman

I am an Iranian Jew who as a young child watched Ismael, a family friend being taken into custody by the "Iranian National Guard," who murdered him in front of my eyes.

Israel does not oppress Israeli Arabs who choose to veil. Israeli Arabs vote, have representation in Parliament. When it seemed that success of the Clinton plan was imminent, not a single Israeli Arab left Israel for what would long have been Palestine by now, had not Palestinian Racists whose ignorance is only surpassed by your racist and moronic self prevented it.

My family goes back to at least the year 1100 in Iran. We fled that country in the middle of the night and our survival that night was questionable. The approximate number of Jews driven out of the middle east, many of whom were there before there was such a thing as Islam numbers three million.

Islamofacists like yourself rely on American oil greed, your own corruption, etc., to keep things as they are. However, we are joining together. We want restoration of our homes, property, justice for all the Ismaels that the Islamofacists have murdered.

Islamofacist, your days are numbered.

FARNAZ2 said:

"Actually, Israel is the only country in the region where Muslim have rights, can vote in legitimate elections, and are legitimately represented in the Parliament."

Is this meant as a serious statement or was it said in jest because it is complete blarney. The Palestinians of Gaza have NEVER been allowed to vote in Israel. Only recently were they allowed to vote in PA elections.

Finally, Turkey is 100x more democratic than Israel because EVERYONE in Turkey has the right to vote and Turkey is a NATO ally. Turkey is also a very lucid example of an increasingly successful synthesis between Islam and modernity.

The fact of the matter is that you are an Iranian Jew because your people had status and respect in Islamic history. The Golden Age of Jewry was in Muslim Spain. When Ferdinand and Isabella were BURNING YOUR PEOPLE AT THE STAKE who took them in? Sultan Beyazit of the Ottoman Empire. He stated, "What a fool Ferdinand is for impoverishing his nation and enriching mine."

So please spare us your 20th Century (now going on 21st Century sadly) Zionist propaganda. You wouldn't even exist if Islam wasn't pluralistic in nature. Christian Europe would have Barbecued and eaten you on a skewer. Read up on what the Crusaders did to Muslims, Christians and Jews alike at Ma`arrat al-Nu`man. Bon appetit!

ABHAB, this comment made no sense:

"Does the Muslim theology that divides the world into the 'House of War' meaning non-Muslims and the 'House of Peace' meaning Muslims is your idea of pluralism?"

If you're asking if Muslim theology divides the world into 'House of War' and 'House of Peace' to separate the Muslim and non-Muslim world, then then answer is a bold-faced NO.

Muslim theology is simple: There is only One God who has no intermediary. There is no Priest, Pope, Bishop, Cleric, Monk, etc between you and God. You have a one on one relationship with him. He has no lineage nor does he bear offspring. He shares Divinity with none. He does not incarnate himself as humans, elephants, blue people, etc.

That is Islamic theology in a nutshell. Some scholars of JURISPRUDENCE in the 12th Century AD may have hypothesized some "House of War" or "House of Peace" distinction in the midst of the European Crusades. Can you not also find Jewish and Christian scholars proposing some pretty absurd ideas in the Middle Ages? You can, so don't waste our time.

So, in short, this "House of War" and "House of Peace" distinction is pure Evangelical missionary propaganda adopted by hardcore Right Wing Republican xenophobes in the NOW DEAD (Hallelujah) Bush era.

They will vanish rather quickly in the coming 4 years. Mark my words.

Ding Ding It's the King!!!

Is this the group that saya you can say and think anything you want, but we might behead you if we don't like it.

Actually, Israel is the only country in the region where Muslim have rights, can vote in legitimate elections, and are legitimately represented in the Parliament.

I am an Iranian American. An Iranian Jew. On this I could write volumes. For now, my primary concern is with the discrepancy between Mr. Patel's obvious ignorance of American history and professed credentials, easy enough to investigate, I would imagine.

Before you speak about Saudi tolerance, you should look at your people in Gujarat, India where thousands of Muslims were killed in systematic pogrom in 2002.

It should be stated that none of the countries in the region practice any real religious tolerance; I mean look at Israel.

I'm an Iranian American, and though Iran's religious tolerance is certainly better than Saudi Arabia's, their leaders aren't exactly Martin Luther King. :)

Also, I second the poster that said the world will not know progress until all people accept that there is no "cosmic muffin."

Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews....

This is an absolute disgrace. There is no reason why any literate person would be so misinformed. For one with your education,it is inconceivable. Either you have falsified your credentials or you are mentally ill. Students in American middle schools know better than this.

Not only was the US completely indifferent to the plight of Jews in Europe, Africa, the MIddle East, during the Shoah, but it actually falsified information, kept information from the American public, with considerable assistance from the New York Times. Hundreds of books, thousands of articles have been written on this.

Frankly, this post demands the investigation of your stated credentials. They simply cannot be valid.

I think it is time that people have courage to look at the larger picture regarding what's going on.

http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/2008/10/mccain-camp-deeply-divided-over-obama.html

It is only right to have honesty. Truth comes out sooner or later. Dishonesty only engenders distrust. Are those seeking tolerance really seeking peace, or power?

But the state governments were filled with racists and bigots and through their governmental power enforced segregationist policies. The federal government had to step in and make the unbelievable point that blacks were people too... So yes, there was a culture of racism, but don't pretend that government power wasn't used for racist ends.

BTW, I am in agreement that WWII was not fought to "free the Jews," that became an issue at the end, but it wasn't even on the radar at the start of the war.

When Eboo and the King admit that Mohammed was a warmongering, hallucinating, womanizing, illiterate no-good, the world will then listen. Until then the discussion of Muslim plurism will remain mute to non-Muslims.

I hope the Saudi leaders can not only 'talk the talk' but 'walk the walk'.

The US propaganda during World War 2 billed it as a war of fascism against democracy and not "fighting across Europe to free the Jews". The book, While Six Million Died: A Chronicle of American Apathy, is about how we did very little until late in the war, about the mass killings.

My own opinion is that wars are fought over human and natural resources, and the Nazi's were late in making the land grab that the Western Europe had done a century before.

Eboo Patel you should become a Salafi Muslim

To become a Salafi Muslim is probably not that difficult for a Shia Muslim.

That would solve most of the international disputes. We'll have a peaceful Pakistan, we'll witness the end of the Islamic terrorism, and the intellectual quality of the Post-Global writers will be much higher.

The world will be a much better place to live.

Unfortunately, most of the WP writers are completely free of any knowledge of history.

Eboo Patel, a founder and CEO of the Shia International Interfaith, is a shining example of this blissful historical illiteracy.

In his opinion of the Shia anti-Semite there was only one reason to send the American soldiers to fight Hitler, a respected German leader, friend of the Palestinian Mufti.

Otherwise, the nazi Germany was just another European Christian country.

Because the American troops were "fighting to free the Jews" the American people have decided to free the Blacks also.

Eboo, you should be a President of the Shia Youth for life and do write to the Post-Global of the WP.

Eboo says:
“Maybe King Abdullah, by articulating the central Muslim value of religious pluralism on the world stage, will find the citizens of his Kingdom demanding that he implement it at home.”

What pluralism has Islam advocated? Does the Muslim theology that divides the world into the “House of War “meaning non-Muslims and the “House of Peace” meaning Muslims is your idea of pluralism?
You complain about Saudi Arabia’s persecution of all those who do not follow the Wahabi sect including other Muslim denominations such as Druze and Shia . Those Wahabis get their marching orders from none other than the Muslim annotated scriptures. King Abdullah should be commended for his bravery to stand up to his clerics, yet it is s a matter of time before they, who know much more about Islam than him, would declare him as an apostate. Mark my word and I shall remind you of that when it happens.

Like most politicians speaking in a public forum, King Abdullah's comments are for domestic consumption. It is a shot across the bow of the country's religious establishment.

On another note though, Do you always, when you feel you have to criticise America, feel that you have to mitigate it with a compliment to the American people? I'm talking about this sentence:

"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews while its own swimming pools and water fountains were segregated. Americans were too smart to stomach their government's hypocrisy for long."

American's weren't "too smart". It wasn't the government that was segregating the water fountains it was the American people. They were the bigots and racists. Not the government.

In fact the government was ahead of the people - forcing desegregation on the people despite themselves.