The so-called 'missile defense system' is the complete and total incarnation of stupidity.

It is an axiom that the moment a country gets nuclear weapons, they realize that they can never use them. Look at the facts - suppose that somehow Iran or North Korea gets an ICBM, puts a nuke on top, and launches it. They know full well that there is a US missile sub out there that, with 24 trident missiles on board, can unload 8 of them very quickly, and unleash at least 24 warheads over the offending country, each warhead having the power of 5 Hiroshima bombs. Bye bye, offending country.

The only threat is if a nuke country (think Pakistan) goes rogue, and sells one to terrorists. Alas, Spidey, terrorists don't have missiles, in case you didn't know. So the nuke would be smuggled into America. I don't think that any stupid damn-fool sporadically working anti-ballistic system can defend against a container on a ship. And only a small percent of those containers are screened.

What planet does Spidey live on, anyway?

Spidey seems to have been thinking Republicans have been 'saving our butts' with a proposed missile defense system from, err, people who haven't had ICBMs?

At least before Bush took office, nobody who had those was inclined in the least to use em against us. Now we're a couple trillion in the hole trying to salvage problems he created that a space system won't help.

spidermean2 wrote: "A vote for Obama is a vote for toasting the Democratic states in the U.S. in case a nuclear war ensues."

If a nuclear war starts the first targets will be our nuclear sites. Guess the color of the states those sites are in. Guess where the fallout goes.

spidermean2 wrote: "Barack Obama said he supported shifting federal resources away from an “unproven missile defense system” to proven technologies.[25] “I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems,” Obama said."

So? Sounds good to me. Just what are those space based systems going to protect us from? The North Koreans?

spidermean2 wrote: "So let him win so the Dems would be wiped out off the globe."

Why are you always so interested in global destruction? Again, its the red states that will suffer. The farm belt will have a layer of fallout on it preventing any food or livestock from growing. Guess where Russia gets its grain from? Guess where China gets it's meat. No one wants to destroy the bread basket of the world except a few fanatics who right now have very little in destructive capability.

spidermean2 wrote: "We Republicans are SAVING YOR BUTT fellas."

Oh yea, that's why my daughter might have to delay college? That's why foreclosures are at an all time high? That's why we have just seen the beginnings of Depression-2? It really is amazing how destructive republicans can be when given power, and in so little time, and then try to redefine reality to be just peachy.

And one things you republicans want everyone to forget is just where those WMD are. I'm not forgetting that Bush/Cheney knew they were never there. Nor will I ever forgive them for killing Americans and Iraqis in pursuit of an ideological based war while ignoring our real enemy, al Qaida, which Bush has allowed to exist and threaten us for the past 8 years with nary a care about them.

spidermean2: The French listened to idiots like you after WW I and built their Maginot Line. Obama isn't dumb enough to try to build a Maginot Line in outer space. Conservaturds may be in outer space, but real Americans are not. No wonder al Qaeda endorsed W in 2004 and McSame in 2008. While conservaturds fantasize about sci fi, liberals are saving your rear end. I hate to break this to you, but The Force and deflector shields ain't gonna save us from conservaturd-emboldened al Qaeda. Stop drinking the kool aid, stop poppin' OxyContin with Rush, come back to reality. Earth to spidey, mission aborted.

The Republicans are the brainless party. And your brainlessness is killing you. Have you considered a lobotomy? Ooops, conservaturds get on when they join the KKKlub. You're already there!

Have you considered emigrating to the supply-side paradise of Vietraq? Our national IQ would certainly jump when you leave.

Yes, there are things that are right and things that are wrong. Guess what? The past 8 years have proven the conservaturd agenda to be dead WRONG. Guess you've had your brain disconnected during this time. If you have one left, can you reconnect it?

CCNL: What about the delusional lunatic from Nazareth who thought he was a vampire? Who inspired Der Fuhrer to kill 6 million Jews? Who inspired the Catholic hierarchy to molest little boys? Whose pathetic rants about End Times direct his followers to kill everyone in the world except those who drink his kool-aid blood?

There is no "mean like Muslim mean" as found in the Worst Book Ever Written i.e. the koran's call to kill all infidels and stone and/or beat all disobedient wifes or women in general that do not meet the standards of one, lunatic, long-dead Arab and his dream angel!!!

A vote for Obama is a vote for toasting the Democratic states in the U.S. in case a nuclear war ensues.

Barack Obama said he supported shifting federal resources away from an “unproven missile defense system” to proven technologies.[25] “I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems,” Obama said.

So let him win so the Dems would be wiped out off the globe.

We Republicans are SAVING YOR BUTT fellas.

PaganPlace:

Re: the gospel tune "They'll know we are Christians by our love"

You wrote:

"Too often, all most Christians take from that is the notion they should presume any loving behavior must come from a Christian, and everyone else must be some kind of evil or subhuman creature incapable of the feeling"

Indeed. The human ego even takes God as its own to feel superior and separate from others.

The greatest of ironies.

"The old gospel tune,'They'll know we are Christians by our love'"

I always found that little self-congratulatory bit few political Christians live up to to be first and foremost a denial that others might be well-familiar with that human emotion.

Too often, all most Christians take from that is the notion they should presume any loving behavior must come from a Christian, and everyone else must be some kind of evil or subhuman creature incapable of the feeling.

"And usually those who are ungodly are the MEANEST. All this talk about the republican meanness are just lies. It's always the Dems who are mean."

But spidermean2, I thought you were the meanest?!? Mean because idiots deserve it. Mean because you've seen too much idiocy. Mean because maybe you can still convince some one by pissing them off. If you are not mean, then who will give the idiots what they deserve? But if you are mean, then is mean a good thing? Does that make Dems good? I'm so confused.

mbus Author Profile Page:

The old gospel tune,'They'll know we are Christians by our love' seems a good place to start.

Perhaps the only place to start. Indeed to walk the journey and to end with, if you claim to be a follower of the Prince of Peace.
Who would believe a follower of Tibetian Buddhism and the Dalai Lama that espoused warfare with China, or supported the death penalty? How is it that they are less hypocritical than evangelical christians? Could it be that there has been so many centuries since Jesus walked the earth that his message has been so easily corroded to allow for a pro-war and pro-death penalty footing in the same breath as 'vehement' pro-life? When the Master is away the little ratties can play.
Preachers and their kind have supplanted the message of Love of Jesus with their own beliefs.
Everyone wants to be King.

One does wonder about those medical records of Palin's... what could she be hiding? I mean, since she wants to overturn Roe V. Wade, she can't possibly be about the right to privacy, right?

(I mean, I actually do think we don't need to dig like that, but that's expected these days), still, someone should be able to affirm that her story adds up and that she's fit for office, especially since McCain isn't the healthiest guy ever, and she runs on being a mother when her story about the birth of her latest child is... Odd, to say the least.)

She lied about returning the Bridge To Nowhere funds, a project she supported until it was exposed, then said she returned the earmark, when she didn't, (not that I have a problem with spending money on more useful things)

She lied about the notion she sold a government jet for a profit on Ebay, when in fact it was sold at a loss to one of her supporters, ...and kept on saying she'd done that when it's just not the fact of the matter,

...she claims she did great things for Wasilla, when she in fact left the town in debt over (ironically enough) hockey stadium boondoggle they didn't even have the rights for...

There's a lot of questions. She wants everyone else to 'submit to their husbands,' but we don't hear much about the Alaskan separatist she married that had a desk in her office from which the Troopergate improprieties were pursued....

What about her college records? Like in the case of Dubya and Texas, those records seem to be mysteriously-unavailable...

Yeah, I'd be wondering about a detail like that.

Hey Sarah, Where are you medical records?

You promised to release your medical records - all the other candidates have?

You and McCain really are a third Bush term aren't you?

The Reality of Our War On Terror and Aggression and the Contemporary Islamic/"Eboo Patel et al"/koranic Effect:

An update (or in other words, how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate Islamic global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and
recent body count:

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops (3,385 combat 800 non-combat) and 88,373 – 96,466
Iraqi civilians, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression vs. Islamic Elements:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world or is he!!!

4. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

5. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

6. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

7. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

Oh, Goddess, Sparrow, yeah, that's a stitch. Dispatches from backwards-world, where it's Colin Powell's fault for warning what a morass Iraq would become ...that it became what he said cause Bush and Cheney had him do it their way anyway....

Where somehow opposing the overconsumption of oil and suppression of green technologies *caused* this new energy crisis the corporate-friendly Republicans manufactured for their oil buddies...

Backwards like how religiously-enforced ignorance about sexuality is supposed to prevent teen pregnancy...

Or how it's 'small government' to put the churches in our bedrooms...

Or how it's 'redistribution of wealth' to *stop* the looting of the middle class and neglect of a taxpayer-built infrastructure for the profits of corporations who export jobs overseas...

Wealth, actually, has already been transferred at an unprecedented rate *from* the rest of us to the war profiteers and the irresponsible corporations, who say, 'Don't feed the kids, pay for our mistakes in living high on the hog while telling you it's 'Christian' to identify with the wealthiest while your future is sold up the river by a deregulated finance industry...

Backwards-world... That's where the Repubicans are living... Guess they have Spidey's vote, but no surprise there.

Backwards. :)

Think we can all use a good laugh. And now- spidey's Greatest hits of the day:

"The liberal posters here are idiots. Mean your idiot brains.

Democrats placed us into an OIL CRISIS because of their "green" laws. That contributed much to our economic downturn.

Democrats are very tough on trade to the extreme. The world would truly miss the gentleness of the Republicans on this area." (sp4- ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...gasp! gasp!....ha ha ha ha ha ha)

"Democrats will fast tract abortion, gay marriage rights and everything liberal. God will not help us when these coming troubles pour at us.

HAPPY IDIOTS DAY!!

If ever Bush didn't get high scores with respect to the Iraq war, it is because Colin Powell was part of his advisers. The idiot (Powell) was really a Democrat by heart and not a Republican.

There are lots of evangelical Christians who are not voting republican because of your kind. idiot.

wkorn, Im glad you made that clear. If a true blue democrat is pissed with my opinions, it means Im effective in my discourse. "

(Let me repeat- ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...gasp! gasp!....ha ha ha ha ha ha)

Dole is just one of the most egregious examples of what the religious polarization the Right has brought to this country.

It's become clear that that agenda has never had anything but fear, division, blind ideology, and anything but a reality-based approach to getting elected.

Few now will believe that serving only the richest among us is an effective thing for government to be doing, so they resort to calling anyone a Socialist if they want to level the playing field for those of us not already millionaires. And other lies.

Time for a clean sweep of anyone going to these tactics. It's a sure sign they got nothing else.

The world knows that Obama's our best hope, and again shake their heads in disbelief that McCain and especially Palin are even being put forth as somehow serious contenders.

Don't let still more eleventh-hour smear-and-fear tactics blind you to the fact that the Republicans, supported by the supposed 'values vote,' have brought nothing but a frustrated sense of self-righteousness to Evangelicals, ...while of course, our country has come to what would surely look like ruin to any eyes, standing in the place of seven or eight years ago.

The Republicans want to intensify the policies that, just as we were all warned, brought us to this place. Distortion is all they have.

Let's have a future.

Spidey, I sincerely hope you do your engineering better than you read. I'm not pissed off at your comments. I told you that twice already and I meant it. I'm HAPPY you are here to spread your hatred.

And I'm hopeful about your comment that the evangelicals are deserting the Republican party. In general, I have no problem doing business with Republicans. The great majority of them love this country just as much as the great majority of Democrats do. We only differ about how to make it an even better place than it is now.

If "your kind" do manage to keep control of the Republican party after Nov. 4, so be it. What "your kind" haven't figured out yet is that taken as a whole, the American electorate has through most of it's history been either center-right or center-left. If you want to marginalize the Republican party, just like the Democrats marginalized themselves almost 40 years ago, more power to you. That will just give us Democrats more time to fix up the mess in which Bush & Co. have left America.

I'd love to continue this conversation, but I have to get ready for church. You might want to visit us sometime -- Christ the Shepherd Evangelical Lutheran Church in Altadena, CA. You might find it illuminating, and we'd welcome you, no matter what your political views are.

Eliminate the paranormal in all religions/cults and there will be a rapid convergence of what few beliefs are left.

Popes, bishops, imams, clerics, rabbis, evangelicals and witches have been living off the paranormal much too long. Time to "pink slip" all of them!!!!

Just another shining example of the republicans' political philosophy of, no line I'm not willing to cross, in order to get elected and hang on to power. Ever since the Clinton impeachment, the republicans have shown time and again that there is no smear that they will not embrace, no depth that they will not sink to and no lie that they are not willing to tell to get elected. The only thing sadder are the people that are so stupid that they believe what the republicans say.

Ultimately, one never knows the heart of another.

All we can do is infer from another's words and actions what is within them.

The old gospel tune,'They'll know we are Christians by our love' seems a good place to start.

Regardless of number of baptisms, conversions, confirmations, salvations, if one is not making an effort to think lovingly, speak lovingly and act lovingly, his Christianity may legitimately be called into question.

Bearing false witness...calling others offensive names. You may be a Christian, but it's time for a little tender repentance with your Lord. And perhaps an apology to those on this post to whom you've misbehaved.

Speaking of meanness:

In October 2008, The Politico reported that Hagan's husband Chip Hagan III, a former Democratic county leader, had been a member of 1,000-member Greensboro Country Club for years, despite the club's de facto segregation and refusal to admit black members. Over the summer, Chip Hagan had also been criticized by Republicans for part ownership of domestic oil wells as gasoline prices increased for consumers.

On the other hand, "mean" Sarah Palin taxed the oilmen and gave it to her constituents.

That's mean.

wkorn, Im glad you made that clear. If a true blue democrat is pissed with my opinions, it means Im effective in my discourse.

I didn't like it when Palin reneged on her convention speech when she warned that she's a bulldog but reached out to liberal reporters later.

Palin should learn from me and that is, DON'T TRUST THE LIBERALS. I was hoping she would beat them into pulp. The reverse happened because she let her guard down.

We're all socialists, aren't we?

Unless you're advocating a flat rate personal income tax, you believe in the redistribution of wealth. I.E. what McCain calls socialism.

Any Republicans advocating a flat rate tax? McCain isn't, Palin isn't, so let's put that silly argument to rest.

Spidey, I'm hurt. I only rate an "idiot" from you?

BTW, you seem to have misinterpreted my words. I'm not a moderate Republican. I'm a liberal Democrat and always have been. You'd see that clearly enough if you looked at the dozens of other comments I've written at WaPo and other places.

And as a liberal Democrat, again, I thank you. Keep up the good work!

Why would McCain withdraw his comment? Obama IS a Socialist, if you examine his statements and is intended policies.

wkorn, it's your kind who destroyed the Republican party. There are lots of evangelical Christians who are not voting republican because of your kind. idiot.

Mr. Mean2 (may I call you Spidey?)...

Either you are a Democratic tr0ll playing the role of the classic far right nutcase, or you actually believe what you're saying.

Whichever you are, I thank you. You are the most effective possible spokesman for the Democrats. I wish we could get you on national TV so everyone could see the face of what the once-respectable Republican party has become since it's been hijacked by the millenialists, militias, misogynists, and mental cases.

As for Libby Dole, I seriously doubt she herself believes what she is saying. I would like her better (or rather, dislike her less) if she actually did believe it.

"Maybe God shouldn't be in the political discussion? Seems to work well for all of the other developed countries. "

It sure did worked well in the former Soviet Union and North Korea.

If you're talking about Europe, the story is not over yet, idiot. Just wait and see how the story ends.

If ever Bush didn't get high scores with respect to the Iraq war, it is because Colin Powell was part of his advisers. The idiot (Powell) was really a Democrat by heart and not a Republican.

It only takes 1 rotten egg to spoil the dozen.

Maybe God shouldn't be in the political discussion? Seems to work well for all of the other developed countries. That way we can focus on real issues and real problems like the economy and the war instead of issues like gay marriage which only bothers conservative bigots who hide behind the Bible.

loewsing , you are truly ignorant. read this :

****

HAPPY IDIOTS DAY !!

Sometimes, you have to let idiots decide for themselves so they would LEARN. Instead of preventing them to play with fire, let them play with it. If the idiots want Obama, give it to them.

Democrats had placed us into this mortgage mess which then put us into economic tailspin : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081020/ap_on_bi_ge/the_influence_game_housing

Obama is against McCain's plan of buying those foreclosed houses and restructure its payment so the homeowners could afford it. These greedy banks are charging as HIGH AS 14% INTEREST from their borrowers. WHY DO BANKERS LOVE OBAMA? THAT IS THE QUESTION.

Democrats are very soft on pouncing on future TROUBLE SPOTS like it did with the Taliban in Afghanistan and pre-911 terrorist attacks until they were successful in 911. That attack pushed us into this war.

Obama plans to get tough with Columbia which is a U.S counter balance against RISING SOCIALISM in South America spearheaded by Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. His plan is to get tough with an ally and be soft on leftist Chavez. He even offered to negotiate with him WITHOUT preconditions. GREAT IDEA if you're an idiot.

Obama is not yet president but he is already being tough on another ally, Pakistan.

Democrats enriched communist China by having unfettered trade with them despite the fact that they are still COMMUNISTS and dangerous and oppressive to religion. China is much more dangerous today than it ever was. Thanks to Democrats' FORESIGHT. This too will be a problem of the next president. Im glad the Dems are winning coz they would handle this coming problem. They started it, let them solve it.

Obama has protectionist tendencies so it is bound to create trouble with our now largest trading "partner", China.

Democrats placed us into an OIL CRISIS because of their "green" laws. That contributed much to our economic downturn.

Obama still think that nuke power is dangerous and offshore drilling and clean coal are harmful to environment. As soon as Obama wins, OIL PRICE WOULD RISE UP AGAIN.

Democrats are very tough on trade to the extreme. The world would truly miss the gentleness of the Republicans on this area. Oftentimes you won't give idiots what they wish coz it would spell more trouble. The world want a Democrat so give them the Democrats. When these people start complaining, I want you to remember that they CHOSE this. Stupidity, BIG TIME.

Democrats will fast tract abortion, gay marriage rights and everything liberal. God will not help us when these coming troubles pour at us.

If Bush was "hellish", see what real hell is once the Dems take over.

HAPPY IDIOTS DAY!!

Spridermean2 wrote:

IGNORANCE is the main ingredient for trouble
======================
Its obvious that the people you referring to where all gods people who destroyed the country. have you forgotten about the last eight years? you gods or want to be gods people caused the destruction. Im sure thats not what God wanted you to do. IGNORANCE is the main ingredient for you pathetic comments. It's obvious IDIOTs like you vote republican

Spridermean2 wrote:

IGNORANCE is the main ingredient for trouble
======================
Its obvious that the people you referring to where all gods people who destroyed the country. have you forgotten about the last eight years? you gods or want to be gods people caused the destruction. Im sure thats not what God wanted you to do. IGNORANCE is the main ingredient for you pathetic comments. It's obvious IDIOTs like you vote epublicane

Republicans in general have been using fear mongering as a diversion from real issues. I used to have a lot of respect for both McCain and Elizebeth Dole. Sinec Republican Campaign decided to go ahead with negative ads that attack their opponents belief in god or patriotism, I am not surprised that Elizebeth Dole approved a commercial that clearly does not tell the truth at best and spreads lies at worst. In this election truth will matter and I predict Ms. Dole will lose this election. I would like to see Kay Hagan sue Ms. Dole for irresponsible lies.

Victor

The Dems are the godless party. Pto abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro-atheism, pro-paganism, pro hollywood sex, pro liberalsim.

And usually those who are ungodly are the MEANEST. All this talk about the republican meanness are just lies. It's always the Dems who are mean.

Just go to New York and then to Alaska and you would know what Im talking about.

The liberal posters here are idiots. Mean your idiot brains.

As a proud North Carolinian, I hope Kay Hagen stumps Dole into the ground!!! First, she's been useless in the Senate. Second, she is as mean and underhanded as her husband. He could be an S_B at times. Just as denagrating as his wife. Harsh political ads are a consequence of political campaigns; however, Elizabeth Dole has gone beyond harshness and has lost all integrity she ever had. Her ads about Hagen are despicable, character assasination. To attack someones religious beliefs to advance your own position is UNFORGIVABLE!!!

So much for the high moral and ethical standards of the so-called believers. One could argue that fervent belief leads one to irrationality.

In fact whether one believes as you do or not a person can be thoughtful, ethical and worthy.

I do not see this as a religious debate as Liz Dole does but you can tell her age is showing in her "attack". She is the tail end of the religious conservatives of NC that everyone wants out. They are so self righteous that they did not allow the state to have a lottery till last election...cause it was a sin. They dictate by their religious beliefs. The good ole Jesse Helms generation that needs to go.

Last but not least her attack was a falsehood as Hagen is a faithful church goer and Christian.

Bottom line, when all the analysis of this election is complete, my bet is that the level of negative rhetoric ("meanness") from the McCain camp will be seen as the reason for his loss.

One need only look back to when Elizabeth Dole was at Department of Transportation in the 1980's. The fact that a government employee was expected to walk her dog when she was there says volumes about her sense of entitlement. No doubt DOT employees could fill this comment section with examples of her type of "public service".

The politics of greed are always mean and self-centered. Such philosophy of the individual first will lead to lies like the sub-prime bubble.

Am I mean enough to run for politics ? In an word no, but what always amazes me are the people who for whom nasty camapaigning works. These same voters who support nasty, mean spirited, libelous campaigns are ususally the loudest complainers when they get the government they elected and deserved.

What type of people allow someone from outside of their community, who does'nt live in the state officially, with no political experience to represent them? And better yet why? The underbelly of politics is Religion and it is becoming extremely difficult to commit to a faith with politics and money at it's core principle. The Conservative moral compass has broken with Christian principles of the Bible and become co-opted by some congenial, smiling, deceitful, coniving, disengenuous, morally bankrupt lot. Americans are beginning to question them in the privacy of their homes and around the water cooler. The ugly innuendo of the past is no longer passe in a world of real time. Regional baiting can no longer be hidden. Politicians will now be accountable for their messages that paints their constituency with the same. A region with a reputation for vile, vitriol, and intolerance will suffer economically in the long term. Republican greed has prevented them from adopting a new message and it speaks to the heart of their true nature as Americans.

I agree. And it makes me feel sad, especially for our youth, who deserve good role models in all aspects of life.
I am American and I love America, but when it comes to elections I am happy I live in Europe, in Switzerland. Perhaps parliamentary democracies are less mean because the program of party is generally more in the focus of attention than the politicians. On the other hand, sometimes Europe is just behind the States and Europeans will have to deal with more mean campaigning in the future. Perhaps Silvio Berlusconi, a media mogul and political leader in Italy, is leading the way in this. But I hope that he is an exception who will not become the rule.

If not for a Republican like Reagan who started the defense shield project, this counrty is toast. The Dems cut back on it. Im glad Bush got 8 years to finish the job.

The Dems are here again to dismantle it. Good for them coz they are toast. It just means the prophecy is accurate coz it says the Dems will be toasted.

Please don't call it intolerance. Im just saying "hey guys, smarten up. Your stupidity is killing you."

***

The next time some false extremist religious person bombs America, please be tolerant to him, OK?

After all, he is just believing some foolish religion just like the posters here.

Wake up, liberlas. There are things that are RIGHT and things that are WRONG. I don't know what kind of infection seeped into your brains folks.

Arminius, you're dreaming. The enemies of America might believe your false assumptions, idiot. It's the other way around. No country which will nuke U.S will survive but the U.S especially the center part (Republicans) will survive it.

We republicans are intelligent enough to stop it. Democrats are idiots. Im not sure if they can even press a button that would activate a defense shield

When I heard Senator Dole's ad, it made me extremely sad.
Personally, I considered it a low blow, but didn't know the full extent.
Then I read that Kay Hagen is a Presbyterian elder and a voluntary religious teacher.
That made the ad Senator Dole posted a double shock.
I strongly support Kay Hagen in her response to this ad and her candidacy for the Senate seat.
Elizabeth Dole should be retired.
This behavior reveals an aspect of the Senator's character which is very distasteful, and so different from my impression of her through the years.
It's a long campaign season, and it takes real depth to resist raw politics in the pressure of the moment.
I think you ask a penetrating question at the end of your article, Dr. Patel.
There is a temptation in the throes of a campaign to devolve into rough, mean-spirited tactics, which many campaign managers will advise the candidate to pursue.
Barack Obama's campaign toward John McCain indicates that it's not necessary to get down in the mud to win.
He has consistently maintained respect for John McCain, taking the teeth out of swift-boating tactics and, when boos arise from crowds at his rallies, he handles them with aplomb: "There's no need for that; just vote!"
He's responded to the crowd every time that way.
Contrast that to cries of: "Socialist! Communist! Marxist! Kill him!" which have arisen in other venues and were never challenged by his opponents.
That said something about the opponents' characters as well.
Frankly, that's why, very likely, Ms. Palin will fade from the national scene in the future.
Nobody respects that kind of campaigning.
To run for public office requires a very thick skin, but candidates shouldn't have to endure epithets, which go beyond the pale.
Voters get what they vote for.
When they refuse to vote for mean-spirited candidates, the tone of political discourse will elevate.
It's all up to us.

Sir,
To pretend, as you do, that one can equate the meanness of the Obama-Biden campaign (one of the least negative in memory) with that of the McCain-Palin campaign (one of the most negative) is dishonest. Let me say that clearly. You are dishonest. Clearly, one side is pale grey, the other is very dark grey, respectively. Look in the mirror. Who are you?
David

Spidermean2 are you are your hacking tricks again

This campaign is very ugly. In fact, the republicans, they say they are christians. This is yet to be proven.

1) a cross-dresser Rudy Guiliani

2) a church dodger, until looking for campaign endorsements/contributions John McCain

3) Wearing magic underwear Willard Romney

4) seeking help through witchcraft Sarah Palin

5) Tax-evader, hiding assets in Cayman Islands Mike Huckabee

go figure if this is the future of religion, then, what is the future of non-religion?

I can honestly say that Obama has run as clean and honorable campaign as any politician in my lifetime. Jimmy Carter ran a great campaign in 1976. Actually, Democrats at the presidential campaign level are not prone to running the type of character and wedge issue campaigns as are the Republicans. hen politicians are actually made to pay for their unethical behaviors at the ballot box, perhaps we will be a better people and get a better government.

Labels are not a concern to Jesus. It is a matter of the heart and confession.

Libby Dole has a real Christianity problem. Her ad against her opponent is so far over the top that I wish I could vote for her opponent. Unfortunately, I'll help Virginia turn my state for Obama.

People are sick and tired of republican hate speech. It's like sen. Stevens of Alaska...guilty of 7 felony counts, Ted speaks to local crowds proclaiming no conviction. Another lawyer from Yale and a sad day for Alaska politics.

Senator Stevens does not regularly attend church srevices, let alone teach bible studies.

He does not pray to God and ask for a day in grace. The republican bull**** machine is on high speed. Obama is in the batting cage, facing a pitcher in the 9th inning of the World Series.

You are black-strike 1
You are democrat-strike 2

It is full count, 3/2...here comes the pitch...

You don't beleive in God...

with the bases loaded, the batter took ball 4.

With all due respect, Mr. Patel, while you have properly cited Sen. Dole's add as one of the worst in a season of awfulness, your presidential ad analysis falls short.

Perhaps in the interest of being "fair and balanced" you have chosen to present McCain and Obama as equally engaged in personal attack ads.
Your analysis distorts the truth of this campaign.

I am not an Obama hack. But I must argue in the strongest terms that only Sen. McCain's campaign has engaged in a persistently personal, gutter politics of the worst order.

Sen. Obama has brushed off most of these attacks with good humor, and has attempted to guide the "discussion" back to the issues.

If you were truly an unbiased observer, as you try to be by pointing to the low road Dole has taken, you would acknowledge the sharp differences in the campaigns managed by Obama and McCain.

Or is it your politics that sway your analysis?

Despite the author's effort to make it so, there is no equivalency between what John McCain has said about Barack Obama and what Obama has said about McCain. None. One has been telling the truth and one has been lying. I don't think Obama has to change a thing he said after the election and McCain cannot say enough to be forgiven for the type of campaign he has run.

I think the republicans have shown what their party really stands for: character assassination, lies, distortions, innuendo, and as was pointed out so eloquently by Ms. Hagan, bearing false witness against another Christian, or fellow citizen.

Nowhere in this campaign season can I recall coming across a legitimate issue coming from the republican candidates. Only what was listed above, higher and deeper.

Shame.

RE: "It is very sad that "godless" has become a disqualification for office in our democracy."
----------------
Are you kidding? Try to run for any office in this country without professing a belief in god.

bluetwo and arminius- you speak very wisely.There is no appealing to spidey's "better nature" because as arminius says, he is filled with hate. I lost my last shred of patience and compassion for him when he made references to 9-11 and how NYC was attacked because of its "godlessness" and lack of belief. Of course that doesn't address why his beloved republican Washington was attacked but then spideys strong suit is not his logic or compassion or intelligence.

What I hold onto regarding him is the knowledge that he suffers far more than we do. Hate is a cancer and its eating him up. The closer the election gets, the more hysterical he gets. I'm sure he has no friends or family- who would put up with his madness? Still, my patience goes just so far- he deserves none of it and I have spent the last 7 years giving most of mine to those who died in the towers and their families. Spidey isn't fit to lick bin Laden's a**, let alone a Democrat's.

Dole ought to be ashamed - not only for practicing the despicable Karl-Rovian Style of gutter politics but for doing absolutely NOTHING for the people of North Carolina as their "Senior Senator." If she had an ounce of decency she'd return every last dime of her senatorial salary. Another "Bushie Bobblehead" that will go down in flames in a few short days. And still she calls herself a "Christian" - the height of hypocrisy.

Many people live rich, fulfilling lives giving service to others without reference to the Christian God, or any of the other brands of God subscribed to on Earth. Godless people are not necessary the spawn of Satan, nor are they necessary not evil. Right wingers and other Traditionalists insist on others thinking about God in exactly the same way that they do. God is the Old Testament punisher. God is the teacher of morality. God is a source of comfort when you are in distress. Totalitarian governments find it convenient to get rid of God because God competes with the political leadership for worship from the masses. Godless people may well believe there is a power greater than themselves (humility) and rejoice in the wonders of the world. God does not believe it is your job to so readily dismiss as unworthy those people who don't believe in Him.

'Godless' is, unfortunately, alive and festering in America. Spidey worships a false god of hatred. A true Christian worships the true God of love.

Pray for Spidey.

"It is very sad that "godless" has become a disqualification for office in our democracy."

Don't lose hope. They are still godless there in North Korea. Any godless person here can migrate there and run for the position of Dear Leader.

It is very sad that "godless" has become a disqualification for office in our democracy. That is not a good sign for the future. Belief in God should be a matter worthy of discussion and reflection, rather than judgment. We should be worthy of respecting other's beliefs, and having the strength in our own beliefs.

Not only have we now reached a condition where the secular values of our government system are challenged, but our religious beliefs have become twisted and deviant from what any religion ever wanted -- that is politicized.

CCNL- Mr. Patel is one of those working to promote interfaith understanding and improve conditions. Why do you keep taking him to task for people who are doing things he is obviously opposed to? we get it- you don't like religion. but the constant, mindless bashing for the sake of bashing does nothing to make your points or foster greater understanding. So why do you even bother?

Double standards?

Had a Democratic Presidential/Vice Presidential nominee left his family for a rich heiress, had someone's 16 year old daughter gotten pregnant, had either one's spouse been arrested for DIU, had the state supreme court acknowledge that as a governor you abused your powers to get back at your broother in-law, this election would have been over long tome ago.

But hypocritical religious freaks, embrace it all when it comes to Republican candidates. Double standard? I think so.

More evidence that the koran is the Worst Book Ever Written (and why no Muslim male can be trusted):

"MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants, a human rights group said.

Dozens of men stoned Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow to death October 27 in a stadium packed with 1,000 spectators in the southern port city of Kismayo, Amnesty International and Somali media reported, citing witnesses. The Islamic militia in charge of Kismayo had accused her of adultery after she reported that three men had raped her, the rights group said."

Mr. Patel, you need to address the passages in your operating manual aka the koran that give credence to such horrid activities before anymore ramblings about USA

I reject the false equivalence you suggest exists between Dole's ad hominen cheap shots and the McCain campaign's non-stop name-calling ("friend of terrorist", "socialist", etc.), with Obama's linkage of McCain's POLICIES to George Bush. That linkage is factual and demonstrable, and is a fair issue in a campaign. McCain and Dole have personalized the attacks and lowered the discourse irreparably. No, I am not mean enough to run a campaign like theirs.

Something I notice while watching a GOP rally, that their are some Pastors, Preachers or whatever you want to call these hypocrits who are willing to stand on stage and listen to their Candidates lie and arouse a crowd to the point where they are talking about killing another human being, and they just stood grinning clapping

There can be no better example of why the Constitution provides for the separation of church and state than this. Here we have two people arguing over who is the better Christian. Lately the implication has been that those advocating the separation of church and state are Godless secularists and non-Christians. This was not true of the Founding Fathers or those of their time. The memories of the inter-sectarian religious wars and civil wars were still strong. In England Roundhead Puritan Protestants fought Cavaliers Catholics and Anglicans. In the period preceding and following the English civil war, rule jockeyed back and forth between Reformist Protestants and Anglicans and Catholics, with each burning each other at the stake in their turn. Both consigned dissenters such as Quakers tot he flames. All were professed Christians, each group declaring its orthodoxy and bearers of the standards of the true faith. In America of the late 18th Century, the great majority of the population were members of either of these two groups, i.e., almost every American professed to be Christian. There was only a miniscule segment of the population that was of another faith or of no faith. The Non-Establishment clause was not put in the Constitution in fear that Godless atheists or Muslims would come to power and persecute Christians. The clause was put into the Constitution to protect Christians from being persecuted by other Christians. When the history of religious strife is investigated it becomes clear that the basis for this conflict is not truly religious, rather is is conflict between different socio-economic groups. Often common men in an area become members of the sect chosen by their local rulers who abandoned the faith of their overlord to gain independence, e.g., the Protestant Luther was supported by several German princes who were in conflict with the Catholic Holy Roman Emperor. It is the economy, stupid. Rather than being a unifying force, the history of relgion has been one of divisiveness and conflict, allowing irrational conquest in lieu of rational governance. Religion should be kept out of government and elections; questions of personal faith should be kept private.

Scum bag politics. I am 65 years old and this is most likely the dirtiest Presidential campaign I have witnessed. John McCain who said in 2000 that there is a place in hell for people like this (those of Bush/Rove's brutal attacks on him), he said he would never run this kind of campaign. When you want something so bad as what John McCain wants, then you revert to character assasination. Trash talking does not seem to be working this time around. Because of the kind of campaign McCain is running, I will be voting for Barack Obama. Also, McCain's pick of an unqualified choice for VP has also caused me not to vote for him. His judgements during this campaign shows me that he would not make solid judgements as President.

Elizabeth Dole trying to be the witch of halloween this year with her vile ad. NC voters are smarter than she gambles, they are insulted by her ugly ad and will throw her quickly out of office. She has dishonered the honorable Senate seat she holds. She's a goner after all this.

spidey2,

you dont really know much about this country do you?
You say: "I just can't stand the stupidity anymore that I wish they should learn from their own stupidity firsthand"

We have learned from our own stupidity, that is why McCain will lose this election. Bush has turned this country upside down, except in your little world. McCain is a fine man, but he wants to continue the disastrous ways that Bush has started. So let me ask you this, how many people have you heard who voted for Kerry in 04 who are now going for McCain? Not many if any at all, but there seems to be a mass defection from the GOP to Obama. Reason is because they can no longer support the idiot Bush's wasteful ways. Ben Stein who was Nixon's speechwriter said on Larry King, that Bush is the biggest socialist going. He just gave close to a trillion of your tax dollars to banks, insurance companies and now auto companies. That is socialism at its finest....

The question the man asked is "Are you mean enough to be in politics...?"

After being active in the Patriotic American Youth in high school (complete with an annual mock congress) and then beginning undergraduate studies in International Relations / Pre Law, I did ask myself that question and realized that the answer was a very certain "NO"...

So I took a different path and have no regrets...

I still consider myself a Patriotic American, although my youth is gone... By patriotic, I mean that I love my country, but not as a 6 year old loves his mommy... I don't scream "YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT MY MOMMY...!" as I throw a tantrum against anyone who doesn't agree with me... I love her, my country, in an adult fashion... I appreciate her great strengths and beauty, but I do my part to encourage her to live up to her promises and ideals when she's not, IN MY OPINION...

You are welcome to your opinion, btw, and if I'm not allowed mine, then you should live elsewhere because the 1st Amendment guarantees free speech and free press...

But politics...? No, I'd rather drive a street sweeper for a municipality or a work for roof repair operation... Work on actual gutters...

The figurative gutters with the likes of Rove and his ideological minions are too filled with human excrement...

Spidermean2,

Your rantings have proven an addage that I was taught in elementary school which is, "Empty wagons make the most noise." b

I was assigned to handle "Liddy" Dole's press forwhile when she was travelling as a surrogate in the Reagan '80 campaign...

she was the least appreciative, the most demanding and the only one who had her staff get back to ask for EVERY little piece of film or clips or photos from her interviews. A real southern pusher. Nothing serious, just irritating. But I cudda told you she wasn't cuddley and warm.

Got a nice letter from Rumsfeld, a CEO at Searl then, who bothered to send praise to my bosses. Have a scrapbook full of such, at age 80 I plan to look at them again and make some real judgements.

Press hacks, it was only a temporary gig for me, should be debriefed regularily for the real skimmy on our leaders. How to explain the subsequent Rumsfeld, I cannot tell you.

The losing side will stop resorting to mean, misleading ads when it stops working.

Up to us, the voters, don't you think?

Stop reinforcing their behavior, and they'll cease.

And Joe the Plumber can go back to avoiding his taxes.

"

What constitution are you talking about. The U.N approved the war in Iraq.

If you were the president, you could have been put to jail. It's Bin Ladin who masterminded the attack and not his relatives."

Oh yes- not his relatives. This from someone with the ethics of a nazi and the IQ of an insect, who said how NYC was hit because the "heartland" is moral and not godless. So now he protects bin Laden's relatives because they are not bin Laden, but it's ok for over 3000 people to die in NYC because if they were there, they must be godless sinners.

Yeah. sure. I really see the logic in that. By his lights 9-11 was ok because those who died must have been "idiots"- guyilt by association. But bin Laden's relatives, many of whom have sent him money to fund his little group, are not?

Those of you who have read these blogs over the last few months will have noticed the serious deterioration of spidey's postings (not that they were all that good to begin with) but he is now reduced to screaming "IDIOTS!!!" in every sentence, and has exhibited a complete lack of education in science, engineering, biology, American history, current events and religion.

What I find most disturbing is his raving, foaming at the mouth delight that millions will die if they don't follow his lead. Don't know about anyone else, but the last guy I heard who sounded like that flew a plane on 9-11 and did a number in Oklahoma city. If I were Homeland Security I'd be on this guy's ISP in a second. People like spidey have no control, and are so filled with hate they have lost touch with reality. No wonder McCain/Palin appeal to him.

Spidermean2,

You wonder how George W. Bush is able to govern this country? The answer is horribly. If you meant you wonder how he got into power in a country you feel is dominated by idiots. The answer is the idiots voted for the guy the thought they could have a beer with instead of guys they could have intelligent conversations with. I believe these people are currently being referred to as "Joe Six Pack" in the current campaign cycle. Personally, if I were one of these people I'd be kind of offended by that particular sobriquet, as it suggests that they have nothing better to do than kill themselves slowly through alcohol. And before you suggest that I don't drink myself, I'm not on a high horse here, I enjoy a good drink every now and then...but the day it becomes part of how I define myself is the day I check into AA.

And while we're on the subject of how one defines who they are...I've often wondered about your handle here. Is it that you're a marvel comics fan who can't spell? Or do you just feel that spiders are evil, mean spirited little creatures and so you relate to them? Personally, I hope it's the latter. If it's the former, perhaps you should pay attention to the source material, since Spider-Man, himself clearly favors science over superstition (in fact there was a time he was a high school science teacher) and is humble enough to admit when he's wrong on positions. Perhaps a better handle for you would be J.Jonah Jameson2.

That way, you can still show your support of marvel comics, but with a stubborn, intractable character that's more up your alley. May I call you old brillohead?

Opps, I meant tenet, right?

"sorry jackaroe, I just can't stand the stupidity anymore that I wish they should learn from their own stupidity firsthand."

So you're saying that the pleasure you take in the painful education of the stupid is a shortcoming of yourself which you regret, not a tenant of your religion, correct?

I would have thought Elizabeth Dole was above this. I am truly disappointed.

sorry jackaroe, I just can't stand the stupidity anymore that I wish they should learn from their own stupidity firsthand.

Im trying my best to steer this country out from harm but I guess the idiots want to harm themselves.

'"Obama will be tested." Guess what? HE WILL and I can't wait to see the idiots who voted for him scramble for cover.'

spidermean2 I hesitate to respond as I think you having a grand time putting us all on, but what the heck; it sounds as if you are very excited to see something bad happen to people you think are ignorant. This doesn't seem very Christian of you. Does your god encourage reveling in the suffering of others?

More evidence that the koran is the Worst Book Ever Written:

"MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants, a human rights group said.

Dozens of men stoned Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow to death October 27 in a stadium packed with 1,000 spectators in the southern port city of Kismayo, Amnesty International and Somali media reported, citing witnesses. The Islamic militia in charge of Kismayo had accused her of adultery after she reported that three men had raped her, the rights group said."

Mr. Patel, you need to address the passages in your operating manual aka the koran that give credence to such horrid activities before anymore ramblings about USA politics.

I would take the comment that she does not believe in God as a tribute. After all, if you have "faith" it means that you are willing to suspend rationale thought for belief systems that existed before mankind had any appreciation about the natural and biological world.

It's hard to rule a country where half of the population are idiots. I now admire George Bush. I think it's almost an impossible task and yet he has done it.

Colin Powell giving him "advice"? No wonder we had a hard time winning in Iraq. Where in the world can you see a Republican cabiniet member voting for a Democrat? I wonder if the guy advised Gen Petraeus to shoot Al Maliki because he thinks he looks like Bin Ladin. His judgment is so blurred that he forgot he is a Republican.

rharring, do your homework and read the news. I have no time teaching you everything.

Boy you've got that right. I am pretty convinced that this started with the Atwater, Limbaugh crowd demonizing liberals in the 90's, but the left wing has learned to strike back, perhaps not with as much coordination but certainly with an equal amount of bile

This is bad, gutter politics:
Her commercial against Kay Hagan, her Democratic opponent in North Carolina, seems to have Hagan saying, "There is no God."
This is not:
Is John McCain really just an Arizona-version of George Bush, as the Obama campaign suggests?

Is Obama really a socialist, as the McCain people like to say
But This is:
suggesting, through their not-really-a-plumber Joe that he's not a real American.

Basically, attacking someone's policy positions is completely acceptable. It's what politics is.
Attacking someone as unAmerican, or godless- personal attacks- is dirty politics.

spiderman72,

Once again i am dealing with another ignorant voter. What constitution? How about the US version. Lets see under Bush they government has listened in on your phone conversations (illegal), has detained and denied basic rights like access to an attorney and right to a trial, both big things in the constitution. And the UN did not approve the Iraq war, when you show you know something i might respond again.

E.Dole is a deeply disturbed woman.
But aren't all fascists (neo-cons) mentally disturbed?

What constitution are you talking about. The U.N approved the war in Iraq.

If you were the president, you could have been put to jail. It's Bin Ladin who masterminded the attack and not his relatives.

spiderman72,

So you admire a man who lies, disregarded the constitution and who flew Bin Ladens family out of the country at tax payer expense just days after their family member killed over 3000 Americans? How nice. Glad you admire Bush because nobody else does, you two go hand in hand because your both idiots...

rharring, after seeing all of the posts, I now admire George Bush. I can't imagine how was he able to rule this country for 8 long years with all these idiots around. It's a very tough act to follow.

Here again we see false equivalencies, a sort of a rhetorical "plague on both your houses": Eboo Patel thinks that the GOP campaign to brand Obama as a socialist/communist/Marxist is somehow equivalent to the Democrats and Obama saying Bush has poor judgment and McCain is too much like him. Both sets of charges are not equal, nor are they in the gutter.

spiderman72,

I dont think we will ever elect a president as stupid as George W. Bush is.

Yes, vote Obama/Biden and get what you deserve. Stupid people deserves stupid leaders.

"Obama will be tested." Guess what? HE WILL and I can't wait to see the idiots who voted for him scramble for cover.

It's show time!

biglio, I hope you don't start making planes. It's gonna crash before it can even fly.

And why would I follow the pope. I can read the Bible and understand it better than him.

Indeed, as I started reading the comments, the repug dittoheads are out in full force these last two days... well, I'll say it again:

The mean, hateful and divisive noise coming from the conservative repug leadership is merely the desperate cries of the repug demons being exorcised from the American spirit. That's all.

They'll soon be gone.
.
.
.
OBAMA/BIDEN '08
.
.
.

"If a candidate were smart enough to say, "There isn't any god," they'd get my vote and money!"

Smart? That is tough to swallow. Godless people are idiots. They can't explain where they came from and still they think there is no intelligent being around.

They can't even make a single hair.

Spiremean2.
I run projects and companies for living and i have an aerospace engineering degree, I can assure you I will NOT hire you for engineering work, engineers have to rely on facts, show sound judgment and be open to new ideas, you fail on all three criteria, plus spelling because "coz" will get you nowhere in the professional world. And by the way, even the pope is not a creationist and he surely studied the bible a little bit more than you.
Did engineering fall so low in the US?
biglio

If a candidate were smart enough to say, "There isn't any god," they'd get my vote and money!

the real question isn't are you mean enough for politics, but are you strong enough?

Are you strong enough to rise above the old way of politicing, do you have the truth and issues on your side. Smear tactics and ugly campaigning is easy. Pointing out what your against and what you fear is far more simple than stating what your for and what inspires you.

The greatest example I can think of is Jesus. Did he preach on what he hated, what he feared? No he did not. He spoke of hope, salvation and a better way to live.

Hate is easy - Love is not.

This is what happens when you sleep with Bob Dole for all those years. What a waste of time.

With all due respect...there is a marked difference between the attacks issued by the Republicans...they are all innuendo and guilt by association...and those of the Democrats, which generally tie Republicans to proven political behavior. When Republicans charge Kay Hagan with saying "there is no God", or Obama with "palling around with terrorists" or being a "socialist", there is a degree of fear-mongering and hatred significantly apart from simply tying John McCain to the policies of George W. Bush, which he did in fact support 90% of the time.

This is election time and time to "dole" it out to the Republicans.

These jokers often run on pro-life stuff and God stuff. But when the light is shown on them we see skeletons. More or less the Republicans controled Congress for 12 years. Of those twelve they also controled the White House for 6 years.

In all that time they never sponsored nor passed legislation to make abortion illegal. Same goes for school prayer.

Lights out. Checkmate.

"the frenzy of the religious right with disasterous results "

Another ignorance. It's the Dems who started this mortgage crisis, idiot.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081020/ap_on_bi_ge/the_influence_game_housing

To often Republican politicians have "feed" into the frenzy of the religious right with disasterous results (ie: George Bush).

I hope the posters here are not the true cross section of America. If it is, I wonder why Doomsday has not arrived yet.

I can't wait to see Obama run the show so these people will see firsthand their utter stupidity.

I now love Mr. Bush. He is a genius. How was he able to rule a land full of idiots?

The soft bigotry against non-believers disenfranchises voters who hold no faith. We don't tolerate that when the belief system in dispute is Catholicism or Judaism. Both candidates hold atheists to be second-class citizens. Why does no one think this is wrong?

I'm ashamed that Liddy Dole reperesents my State in Congress. Well, come to think of it, she never really has represented North Carolina. It's almost like we've hired out our Senate position to a consultant.

Apparently the only god the woman knows is Karl Rove. This verse is straight out of his bible.

She is a disgrace to my State.

Elizabeth Dole should not be struggling to win this race. She is a household name of long standing and she and her husband have served the Republican party well.

She is desperate and therefore has had to resort to unethical campaign ads. She is as sad as her overdone plastic surgery. Both she and her husband look clownish with all the sad face work they've had done -- an analogy to their over-the-hill politics that don't seem to be working any more.

[ "Am I mean enough for politics?" ]

Just a reminder; politics has ALWAYS been mean, going back all the way to the 'founding-fathers'!

Remember the Jefferson - Adams feud and most of the other contests ? Actually some of the language and accusations were meaner !!!

Although I'm a Democrat, I used to respect both Mrs. Dole and Mr. McCain -- that respect is gone now. Theses candidates "any thin to win" attitude totally disgusts me!

Well, well. Eboo Patel has left his soapbox from whence he preaches the gospel of warm and fuzzy Islam and mounted another one, this time to join the American media's self-congratulatory line that they display their impartiality by always finding, no matter what the issue, that all politicians bend the truth. To prove his point, Mr. Patel finds mirror imaging in Obama's FACTS about John McCain's years-long record of supporting George Bush's policies and McCain's unproven CHARGES that Obama is a socialist. Let's see now. If somebody CLAIMS that cold fusion works, that claim becomes as equally valid as someone who has spent years building workable nuclear power plants on an entirely different set of principles.

A challenge to Mr. Patel, which I know will go unmet: For every FACT you introduce on these pages showing Obama is a socialist, I will produce two showing that McCain is a clone of George Bush.

I know this challenge will go unmet, because Eboo Patel has shown himself a moral and intellectual coward by his past refusals to respond to facts that refute his own viewpoints. Oops. There I go again. What have facts got to do with anything?

Eboo Patel has once more shown that he is out of his league in trying to play world-class commentator.

I'm looking forward to the day when politicians will have to lie and say they're atheists even when they do happen to secretly have an imaginary friend in the sky to whom they pray and from whom they get "advice" (which has really worked out well for George W. Bush!). The fact that being called "Godless" is a smear is testament to the lingering medieval society we have in the USA. It's amazing that we were the first nation to make it to the moon in a land full of magical thought and fear of witches. That said, Elizabeth Dole is a first class cretin for using the godless attack on a known Sunday School teacher. As an atheist, I endorse Hagan not for her religious views, but for the fact that her political views make far more sense than Dole's.

Or what would be wrong with a candidate that is an atheist? Or an agnostic? Or does not want to have their religious beliefs made a part of their campaign? This to me is the real issue. Whatever happened to the separation between church and state in this country? I base absolutely no vote on what religion a candidate believes in or practices. I truly do not care if they are "Christian" or not. I have met far too many so-called Christians that were complete and total hypocrites. And I am certain I am not alone. The Republican Party has made religion in house, senate and presidential races a huge issue because they have to kowtow to their donors from the religious right, one of the largest lobbying groups out there. I feel it has no place in politics.

Have we forgotten why Al Gore and John Kerry lost their bids for president?

Bill Clinton and his affront/stain to/on family values!!!!

Some words of wisdom from Andy Rooney: "BO and JM are both good men."

I do not know where you have been living, Mr. Patel!!

It is a right winger truism not to tell the truth. Dole is no exception.

Have you noticed the 'good' Republicans jumping ship to Obama's centrist camp? It is easily obvious the Doles, the Palins and the McCains are the voices of extremism; they should be taken to pasture and let loose in the wilderness.

These nuts have stained the name of the Republican Party. It takes more than 'shout' to get the GOP cleansed.

Actually, I do believe that McCain is basically an Arizona version of George Bush. There is very little difference between their views on the war, the economy, health care, social issues, and foreign diplomacy. Both also believe in acting from the "gut" and privilege action over thought.

This is an example of false even-handedness: the idea that you can't criticize "one side" without finding some supposedly equal offense on the "other." But pointing out that McCain and Bush are nearly identical in their views is nothing like smearing your opponent's religious faith.

Has anyone ever seen a Republican candidate run a clean, honest, and decent campaign?
If 8 years ago Stupid One had done so, today we would not be suffering the consequences.
But, in all fairness, it is not all the fault of the nazi Republicans. I fault mostly the imbecility of the stupid, uneducated, illiterate redneck.
That's the reason for a better educational system.

From what I've seen and heard of this race, Senator Dole is a faux Christian and even should she win...at what cost to her own conscience? She ultimately loses because of her conduct. I am sad for you Senator Dole.

Spidey wrote: "Nobody messes with God."

That's frickin' brilliant. Enlightenment from your words washes over me...

I'm glad to see your still spewing nonsense-for-Jesus.

Like most commentators, Eboo Patel remains silent on the question of religious freedom implicit in the Dole ad and only weighs in on the dishonesty. Of course, Hagan is a Christian and this was not an atheist group lobbying her. But what would be wrong with an atheist group meeting with any candidate?

I am focusing on the question in Dole's second add, "If Godless Americans were to host a party in your honor, would you go?" Just imagine that she said, "If Jews were to host a party in your honor, would you go?" or "If Catholics were to host a party in your honor, would you go?" If she asked either of the latter questions, the focus would have been on the question of religious discrimination, not on the accuracy of the charge.

Atheists, Muslims or any religious group should be permitted the same political freedom to meet with candidates or with their representatives as is according any other religious group, without fearing that by seeking access they will doom a candidate's chances. This right is in the constitution, even if Patel and others do not want to recognize it.

Senator Obama's comments regarding Senator McCain's similarity to George Bush are hardly smears or ugly advertising. After all, McCain supported Bush's policies 990-95% of the time. The Republicans, on the other hand, have not only been nasty, but they have lied consistently thoughout the campaign. The latest insult I received from the Florida GOP was an ad in the mail that attempted to get votes by complimenting Senator Hillary Clinton. McCain and the Republicans stoop to new lows with every thing he says or sends out.

this is worse - http://www.mlive.com/saginawnews/opinion
Saginaw News 10-29-2008 "Is Barrack Obama Really a Muslim"

here the editor swears Obama's father 87.5% Arab...We all know that he is part Kenyan.

This is definitely voter suppression.'

Please click on the letter-comments were readers conveyed their outrage

But then you will see a letter from a teacher against McCain, about his gambling habits at an Indian Casino - this just may be ties to Jack Abramoff.

Readers that don't understand how hateful, evil, well it's so many words to describe the GOP, and how low they will stoop to get what they want. Well, should I say they will lie, cheat , steal, and kill to get what they want.

I am a Christian and I find Dole's ad positively horrible. She is obviously incapable of winning by persuasive argument so she stoops to the most mendacious and polarizing kind of campaigning around. The people of North Carolina deserve better than Dole. God willing, they will get it.

thanks annjell, you're giving society a big favor.

I hope I'm wrong

But, Spidermean2 - I think you are the spammer/Hacker on this site.

I am not coming back on this again site again

at least I have a brain to fall out. No one could accuse you of having one.

sparrow wrote "You have a very different definition of "fact" than the rest of the world."

Like what? Like you believe that there are 3 sexes? Like the concept that an intelligent brain can be created by an unintelligent earth?

Don't be so open minded or your brain will spill out.

Oh sorry, I left this out.

I guess what I really saying is, when religions refuse to accept people they feel are undesirables, there's always someone else waiting to take that person under their wings.

The famous saying, "One's trash, is someone else's treasure."

It's a honor to have Mr. Patel write a short piece on what mirrors this current campaign, attacks coming from the right.

Wow, this couldn't have come at a better time.

Actually, I am very happy that the right decided to let the world know that, yes, they don't like black, and they surely don't like muslims.

Now, you cannot separate the two. Here's how I explain this. In prisons, you have a muslim religious group - in fact, there are black inmates recruited within the prison walls. Are they violent group inside U.S. prisons? For the most part, no.

Not only that, you have alot of blacks joing the muslim religion throughout the caribbean.

Now, what the right needs to recognize is, some of the Middle Eastern Imams have repeatedly said, "we are going to take over the west."

When you have a lot of minorities that feel disenfranchised, dealing with racial discrimination, disparity, they go where to feel some sort of comfort.

Yes, the conservative right knows how to rally their base. But, look at the islamic countries, they step in when the government doesn't. So, you can say they know how to get followers too.

On the flip side, the state that I live in, you have a lot of guys from Afghanistan, India...marrying Latinas.

No, I am not muslim, aethiest, and thanks to the republicans I have left the church, as well as the GOP. I did this for my own peace of mind and sanity. When you listen to people like, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly, your lucky to come out unscathed.

However, I feel the GOP has done me a favor. I am an adult, and want to be treated as such. I have my own mind, and tend to use it. I am tired of being put under tremendous fear/stress, or being told, "You better do this...or, God is going to punish you." Well, my closing remarks is, okay, well if God is going to punish me, then why is that some people do the same thing over and over again, knowing what they are doing and continue to get away with it.

"There is only one way to handle a fact and that is to believe it. Otherwise, the fact becomes useless. That is what you will become if you are not careful."

You have a very different definition of "fact" than the rest of the world.
"a fact is defined as something that is true, something that actually exists, or something having objective reality that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation." - wiki

Your hallucinations and delusions are not fact. they're an illness. Get help.

Sparrow, I know you are not an engineer coz if you are, you would realize that there are things which are called FACTS.

There is only one way to handle a fact and that is to believe it. Otherwise, the fact becomes useless. That is what you will become if you are not careful.

It's amazing to me how hard you try to sound intelligent, spidey, and yet you always fail. I wonder when you'll realize that being as close-minded and rigid as you are doesn't make for rational thought or logic.

Enemyof the state wrote "True. But unless Noah was traveling at the speed of life at some point in his (very) long life, that concept would not apply."

The fact is, time is relative and Einstein's formula may not be the only one formula that relates to time. There may be some undiscovered formulas out there coz how else could God travel thru time except using some other time formulas.

"Who is Godless?"

They are those who will burn a few years from now.

Let's wait who are those people.

Who is Godless?

Would God support deregulation and usury to drive Americans out of their homes?
Would God support health care for the wealthy and not for the poor?
Would God support tax breaks for the rich and not for the poor?
Would God support the bailout of businesses without feeding and clothing the poor?
Would God support a holy war or peace and love?

Mr. Patel- I think you picked quotes from the more innocuous ones. One of the reasons Obama is doing so much better than Mccain is his campaign. the republican campaign has been a mess- avoiding talking about issues, name-calling, insults, innuendo, outright racebaiting- the republican party has used every cheap trick in the book, and Dole's ad was a perfect example. It's beyond meanspirited. It's well over the line. It's despicable.

At least Obama has made every effort to stay on message, and not descend to McCain/Palin's level.When he does become negative, it is factually, politically based. Face it, comparing McCain to bush is legit. Implying (or even saying outright)Obama is a terrorist is not.

to run McCain's kind of campaign you have to be more than mean-spirited. You have to be willing to set aside your morals and ethics and your better judgment. McCain/Palin seem to have no difficulty doing that.

There is good reason it can be called 'politricks'. It's mostly the resort to utilizing base trickery and deceit in pursuit of the power to authoritatively allocate those ever more increasingly scarce resources. b

God does not lie???

Well his supporters sure do as we are still waiting for Paul's promise of the imminent second coming. Then there were the lies of M, M, L and J about the simple preacher man being some sort of resurrecting god.

And of course Paul's inane utterances about women continue to haunt us even today. His sainthood should be revoked!!!!

oooogaaahhhaaaaa booogggaaaah! If you vote for Obama, the white neochristian god of love will fry you with the rest of his babies in hell who were liberals and democrats.

There is no moral equivalence to comparing John McCain with George Bush and the personal trashing McCain and Palin (especially Palin who does it with such glee)and their faux Plumber. That's the mean-spiritedness. Healthy debates over policies are part and parcel of partisan campaigns and folks can reconcile with the 'agree to disagree' approach. The attacks on patriotism and the racist-tinged language in ads is purely deplorable. Obama is a big man indeed, but even that has to be a stretch for any post-election "I didn't mean it - it was all politics" reconciliation.

RE: "Time is relative according to Einstein's formula."
-------------------------
True. But unless Noah was traveling at the speed of life at some point in his (very) long life, that concept would not apply.

Nice try, though.

Time is relative according to Einstein's formula. It is true. How that statement applies to the time of Noah, that is the thing he should have looked into.

He may be a genius but not quite the level yet where he can solve that puzzle.

"They must have had a hell of a health care plan back then."

You know what? The Bible is the hardest book to read. Nobody can understand it FULLY. It is full of deep metaphors. Some I have deciphered, the others, I can't.

Read this : 1 Corinthians 2:14

I've got to go now and satisfy my woman. I'd love to chat longer and plumb the depths of illogic with Spidey.

We'll talk again.

Peace.

RE: "Im an Engineer and engineers are very surefooted. They test it, test it and test it before using it."
----------------------------
Then you should test the claims of the bible. Are you willing - with a straight face - to say you believe Noah lived 900 years?

They must have had a hell of a health care plan back then.

The point is while you guys invent your own doctrines, I just follow the TRIED and TESTED.

Yours are sure to fail while mine is as sure as 1+1=2.

Im an Engineer and engineers are very surefooted. They test it, test it and test it before using it.

Quoting the bible?? Is that your 'A' game?

Sad. I don't even have to look it up (and I could, because I actually own a bible); I know it's b.s.

Let's go, Spidey...everyone is breathless to hear your latest nonsensical pronouncements. Do you need to talk to god first? Well, don't hold your breath for an answer...

"This will be good."

Yes, it is. Read these verses: Romans 1:27 and Romans 11:22

God does not lie. We'll see what he means by that in the near future.

Spidey's taking his time with this one. Lots of big words to look up...

RE: "Ignorance is the main ingredient for trouble. As usual, the ungodly are being ignorant."
------------------------------
Well, there he is!

Tell us, what does God communicate to you about liberals?

This will be good.

EnemyOfTheState "When there is no more religion, superstition or other irrational belief systems, maybe then we can realize our potential as human beings and make some real progress."

YES, they tried that in Russia once and thy all gone to the dogs.

Ignorance is the main ingredient for trouble. As usual, the ungodly are being ignorant.

Well, I've tried to bait Spidey twice with incendiary comments, but he's too slick to respond.

Must be his "Spidey sense" telling him his illogical and idiotic arguments wouldn't pass muster in a freshman philosophy class.

(Now I'll get a rise for sure, or "fer shure" for Palin fans)

RE: "IGNORANCE is the main ingredient for trouble. "
---------------------
For once, we agree!

Telling the truth is NOT being mean. Usually, IDIOTS mistake it for meanness.

Let a child play in the rooftop and see what the "meanness" of gravity is about.

The same logic applies to the laws of God. Play with it and you'll be DAMNED.

That is not meanness. It's called REALITY.

The GODLY people KNOW the truth. The UNGODLY are as ignorant as ever.

IGNORANCE is the main ingredient for trouble.

When there is no more religion, superstition or other irrational belief systems, maybe then we can realize our potential as human beings and make some real progress.

No telling how far in the future that is, considering the propensity of people to believe myths.

I'm sure some semi-literate conservative will point out where he thinks I'm wrong, using the usual ad hominem arguments (anything to avoid rational thought). Whatever...

It is not about being mean. It is about being able to lie with a straight face and not feel an ounce of regret. Saying a Sunday School teacher believes there is no God is ridiculous; not so in a campaign. Both parties do it with the excuse that it is for the good of the party. For shame. Bill Kristol was revealing on The Daily Show last night. He, in essence, admitted that Obama, in his estimation, would not be a socialist and does not appease terrorists. He firmly argued that it was legitimate to say he would and does. What is lacking in politics is honor.

RE: "The trend here is those who are UNGODLY are voting for Obama and the GODLY for MCCain."
-----------------------------
Typical simplistic thinking from the conservative crowd. Anyone who disagrees with them is an afront to "god". It's amazing that an omnipotent god needs these boneheads to defend him in the first place.

Politics is a full contact sport - accept it or don't bother to run for office.

I'm liberal, and I have had heartburn for the last decade. Now conservatives can reach for the Tums.

But don't worry, conservatives. The pendulum always swings.

The trend here is those who are UNGODLY are voting for Obama and the GODLY for MCCain.

It seems the DEVIL crowd will win so let's see how the U.S would fall from the grace of God.

America's next 4 years would be TOTAL DOOM AND GLOOMY.

Nobody messes with God. Those who did never escaped his WRATH.

instead of discussing the virtues of morality we choose instead to discuss meaness...
not good at your job are you?

NOT MEAN ENOUGH

I played local politics for a about five years from volunteer to campaign manager. It taked a real thick skin and an instinct for the jugular to succeed. My theorist / philosophical approach to life was far from what one needs to play with the locals and, from what I saw on the state and national level, one needs to be really fast and ruthless to play with the "big boys."

And ten years later, I am glad I quit when I did. Like my parents decision to keep me out of the military academies because I was too rebellous was infinitely correct, so my inability to "go along to get ahead" doomed me in the political world.

Eboo, Dodson must be professing to know the will of God and the future of the United States.

Someone said that the invasion of Iraq was the Will of God. My God does not lie about weapons of Mass Destruction. Through the power of the Constitution, the people have the choice of an olive branch or arrows. That choice was taken away from the people.

Founding Fathers of our nation believed in the concept of Divine Providence. When President Bush says, "God Bless the United States" look out, be careful what you pray for in life.

Well, it's ok to be a athiest or socialist in my book.

To me, it's about the effectivness and efficincy in solving problems.

The best solution to problems comes from different ideologies at different times.