All Comments (157)

your sentiments expressed reveal how you are living your belief lynn

It just makes me so sad that a beautiful post, like the one that started this discussion, has provoked this hate fest. It's the same thing that happens on the Mormon forums. I can't tell whether it's the Mormons or the Muslims who people hate the most, sometimes. Either way, hatred toward people of another faith, who are living good lives, trying to be good examples, and living according to the truth they've found, is just plain wrong.

It's all right to disagree with someone's beliefs, and to stand up for your own, but all this hatred and contention is wrong. This is one thing that makes me glad I'm a Latter-day Saint (aka Mormon), because one of our main beliefs is that everyone has a right to live his or her religion in peace, and worship according to his or her conscience. This is also one of the things that the US Constitution's Bill of Rights was created for. If all would remember this, it would be a better world.

As for the Muslims, I feel it is very unfair for all the good, devout Muslims, who are just living their lives according to their faith, to be vilified because of the actions of militant terrorists who have, no doubt, twisted the teachings of their Prophet Mohammed,for their own political gain. It reminds me of how the teachings of our own Prophet Joseph Smith have been twisted by our enemies. Either way, it isn't right, and it isn't fair.

I will sum it all up,Islam is a evil deathcult.
Muslims are brainwashed savages.

Mr. Patel:

What a lovely experienc. Would that we could all be as open as you to learning from other people of faith.

it will be interesting to note if a question arises that spawns a positive reaction from mr collins.

i am amazed about how its a good discussion as long as you dont mention the murder torture rape and forced conversions - rquired by the koran - in the past and the present.
what the heck kind of discussion is that?

well if this site proves anything its that boo boy and his minions cant handle facts about his cult of islam and that bs about how they want to get along with non islamics.

i have looked at what is being posted and the defenders of boo boy dont seem to address the issues but attack the messenger.
and non islamics are supposed to feel bad becasue you are insulted by language after 1400 years of torturing, raping and murdering in the name of islam? get a clue.
and the do not feed the troll comment - that is just a way not to respond to facts about islam and its cult of terror and hate.
as for the religion of peace web site - tell us how it is wrong. i just went to it and its factual statements about how peaceful islam is today. is all this wrong or factually correct?
"5/16/07 ( Mogadishu, Somalia ) - Five Ugandan peacekeepers are murdered in a roadside bombing attack.
5/16/07 ( Gaza, Pal. Auth. ) - A nurse traveling in an ambulance is shot in the head by unknown Muslim gunmen.
5/16/07 ( Gaza, Pal. Auth. ) - Hamas gunmen fire on a vehicle carrying prisoners, killing seven persons.
5/16/07 ( Gaza, Pal. Auth. ) - Hamas militants storm a home, line up six men against a wall and shoot them to death.
5/16/07 ( Tank, Pakistan ) - Five civilians waiting for a bus are cut down in a rocket attack by religious extremists."

give us the context that makes this ok or peaceful?

Ya know...

The only thing more embarrassing here than the angry "anonymous" comments are the outraged reactions.

Really people, put a sock in it. The guy is obviously a troll trying to push buttons to get a rise out of people. Nice of you to take the bait so wholeheartedly, I'm sure he's delighted.

Do not feed the troll.

Thank you.

You ought to consider your sources. A web master can make you believe whatever they want; they will manipulate matter to create in you a certain emotion. Your source (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) is obviously intended to stir an emotion of hate; it uses only fractions of a truth to create a multitude of lies. Don't let newspapers, websites, history books or any other media manipulate and insult your intellect. When taken out of context, anything can mean anything in the world, and even the Bible then has some terribly troubling things to say. Do some research of your own. Befriend someone who is nothing like you, and see how quickly your perspective will change. And read the actual Qur'an; not some other foolish man's interpretation of it.

ok lets forget everything islamics have done in the name of islam - here is islam today:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
look at the monthly jihad report, it is very interresting. or the acts of violence and terror since 2004, 2005 and 2006.
or what about abusing children. yes we know that islam does not mind killing them, but what of pleasure? The Ayatollah on Sex with Infants:
"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is
harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives".
wow i just love islam, its so peaceful.

Why is there so much argument over history; who killed whom and what cause was justified and which religious figure stirred up in the world what good or what evil? These are the discussions that keep the world divided and instigate wars. With what we already know (or think we know) or are not really sure whether we know or should believe about history, the question is what we are doing today--what WE are doing today--to each other, to eradicate this and all prejudice?

thanks for the encouragement rueben,

swa is arabic for peace be upon him, sallallahu alaihi was salaam.

peace

One question Victoria:
What does "swa" stand for? You have written this following the prophet's name...

I just read a nice back-and-forth on one of the posts on this site, between Victoria and Qasim Omar. For a change, there was no exchange of vitriol (though Victoria IS sensible most of the times, haven't read much from Qasim but he seems like a level-headed bloke too). There actually was a productive argument, where other poster could learn something.
And very well said Victoria: "because men are not all high natured but a mix of good and bad every one-".
I would have to say (and I paraphrase some poster I read a few days ago): no religion is inherently violent, but it is only some selfish/crazy/maniacal few who give religion a bad name. So though how it is practised today by SOME people may a different story, I am sure Islam is not a violent/crazy religion. And if people say that is how most muslims think, that is entirely wrong because how would you hear about a muslim disagree with some act of violence (that WILL not make a story for the newsmedia). On the other hand, acts of violence make good headline news and sell!
Peace and cheers people...

"But sure, Christians pretty routinely use a thing about gay *men* to say, "If I kill *you* 'your blood is upon you,* ..which means it's really your fault."

How's that for an example? There's the ever-popular, 'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?' I get that one thrown at me a fair bit...

I mean, don't try to obfuscate, here. I've read that book and been subjected to how plenty of Christians are given to use it. Christians have done all the things that you accuse 'all Muslims' of being party to, by dint of what the Koran says, so it's pretty pointless to be railing against Islam in such a hateful manner when the real issue is how people can read *either* of these books to call murder and atrocity and forced conversion 'divinely mandated' whenever they happen to be so inclined.

If you can't see that for yourself, instead just thinking one version of the same kind of religion is 'evil' while the other is 'always good,' then, you aren't 'opposing evil,' you're just taking sides in a 'war' that *has* no real 'righteousness.'

Only confusion. And hatred. Feeding on each other. "

WOW, PaganPlace!!! Interesting point!

I, as a Catholic, know what it is like to have scripture used against me by other Christians. This is why I cannot accept the non-Muslim quoting of Islamic scripture as proof of anything, except what kind of person is probably doing the quoting.

I am also familiar with the rationales you mention above.

I was also recently told (unsolicited, of course), and it was emphasized that this was only "concern" for my soul, that I was an idolator no matter how I explained the difference between the worship of idols, and veneration of The Virgin.

I was further told that no matter how good Mother Theresa was on Earth, because she was not "born again" that she was in hell...that it was just a "sad fact".

I would be a lot more interested in some of these long, scripture quoting, posts if they were part of an inquiry. For instance, asking a Muslim if the quote really means what it says at face value, or if not, why? But as you see, that does not happen. Those quotes are presented by people who chose them specifically to support an ignorant, preconceived notion.

To me, the actions speak louder than the words.

Mr. Patel,

I look forward to hearing of your deep and sincere investigation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and your forthcoming announcement of your decision to be batized. Your wife took a tremendous chance on marrying you. You owe it to her to finally investigate with a sincere desire to believe. Once you arrive at this point the Lord will do the rest. I dare you to read The Book of Mormon cover to cover in a one-month period of time and decline the invitation to become a Mormon. I don't think you can do it.

Sincerely,

Mr. Britt

im sorry but are you guys idiots?

when is the last time either of you marched for anything?

i never like to call people idiots, especially in print- but- wow

get a clue!

yes we all know how indonesia treats infidels. and what do these moderates believe? do they reject the hate in the koran or are you going to talk about that too.
your statement is crap and nothing more.
look at islam in the world today - riots murder hate to all infidels.
here is the peace of islam in 2006: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2006.htm to see the peace of islam in 2005 change the year to 2005 and do the same for 2004.so here you are - and where are those moderates marching to object to the above horrors at the hands of islam.

Moderates are nice people. They are people with a mystical interpretation not one grounded in the literal. Most don't even read the works of Mohamed. Moderates are passive people who move from one place to another when the Islamics take over. They move from Indonesia to Malaysia and from Iran or Iraq to America. Then they settle down in their new nation pretending all is well and saying things like, "Islam is peace." Those who move from Indonesia to Malaysia find that it is 52% Muslim vs. 88% in Indonesia but fast becoming 88% Muslim. They will find themselves back where they started sooner than later. 50% is the tipping point. To get to 50% takes time but after that things will move more quickly. It is almost insidious how the moderates provide cover for the extremists who control the agenda. They are wonderful people who are taught to never say a bad thing about another Muslim or Islam. This is a rule we see in operation and is hard to understand because of our own self critical culture.

WOW! Praise the Holy NO MON ECLAT. Except for Eclati-On's, not eclati-OFF'S !

Gee what a waste of 0's + 1's. Ya Ya lost Sheep!

eeeeee Haaaaa Eclat's gonna get ya! one can never escape their own "Heuristics" as photons!

BEHOLD MON's, me brethrens et al; "Repent", in your innate Baptism(s) of thee magmatriculation, as your faith of ECLAT & your unique Eclati therein and thereof in OUR(s) Miracle via Eclats TIME, plan, machine etc....

Praise the Holy No mon in me Holy Cosmic heart beat, In all & as me my me me in two or three.

"let ther be Photons for all Past, current, present & beyonders of Photonic miracle excell in their very essences of Beyondness et al TRUTHS!

lets get this right. there is no god named allah, its bs and moho was nothing more than a greedy child rapist.
what kind of god would demand that its followers hate, torture, hold for ransom, cut off limbs, rape, murder, and is so insecure as god that he has to order his followers to force people to join the fake religion called islam?

yes homer - boo boy needs someone to defend his failure to condemn islamic murder and hate, not just of infidels, but of islamic women.
yes see boo boy never met an islamic terrorist he did not like. you see he has this bs group where he cons people into thinking islam is just this nice group of god fearing humans like all others, but he lies. you see this indian has forgot to mention how islam has bonded with others of india who are not islamic. here are a few facts about the love given from islam to the people of india. in this i have listed the islamic leader first and their acts of kindness to their fellow indians.
Mahmud of Gaznavi
(From the accounts of arikh-i-Yamini of Utbi the secretary of Mahmud of Gaznavi)

At Thaneshwar.
"The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously at Thanesar that the stream was discolored, not withstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink it. The Sultan returned with plunder which is impossible to count. Praise be to Allah for the honor he bestows on Islam and Muslims."

At Somnath
"The Muslims paid no regard to the booty till they had satiated themselves with the slaughter of the infidels and worshipers of sun and fire.... The number of infidels killed exceeded 50,000"

At Mathura
"The infidels...deserted the fort and tried to cross the foaming river...but many of them were slain, taken or drowned... Nearly fifty thousand men were killed."

Mahmud of Ghori
(from Hasan Nizami's Taj-ul-Maasir)
Kol (Modern Aligarh)
"Those of the horizon who were wise and acute were converted to Islam, but those who stood by their ancestoral faith were slain with the sword"

Kol (Modern Aligarh)

20,000 prisoners were taken and made slaves
'Three bastions were raised as high as heaven with their heads and their carcases became food for the beasts of prey

Kalinjar
50,000 prisoners were taken as slaves
Varnasi or Kasi (Benaras) :
Kamil-ut-Tawarikh of Ibn Asir records,
"The slaughter of Hindus (at Varanasi) was immense; none were spared except women and children,(who were taken into slavery) and the carnage of men went on until the earth was weary."

Zahiru'd-Din Muhammed Babur (1526 C.E. - 1520 C.E.)
Babur's Own Words on Killing Hindus:
For the sake of Islam I became a wanderer,
I battled infidels and Hindus,
I determined to become a maryr
Thank God I became a Killer of Non-Muslims!

From Baburnama, the Memoires of Babur Himself:
In AH 934 (2538 C.E.) I attacked Chanderi and by the grace of Allah captured it in a few hours. We got the infidels slaughtered and the place which had be Daru'l-Harb (nation of non-muslim) for years was made into a Daru'l-Islam (muslim nation).

Guru Nanak on Babur's atrocities:
Source:Rag Asa Guru Nanak Dev witnessed first hand the atrocities Babur committed on Hindus and recorded them in his poems. He says: Having attacked Khuraasaan, Babar terrified Hindustan. The Creator Himself does not take the blame, but has sent the Mugal as the messenger of death. There was so much slaughter that the people screamed. Didn't You feel compassion, Lord? pg (360)

On the condition of Hindu women in Babur's monster rule:
Those heads adorned with braided hair, with their parts painted with vermillion - those heads were shaved with scissors, and their throats were choked with dust.They lived in palatial mansions, but now, they cannot even sit near the palaces.... ropes were put around their necks, and their strings of pearls were broken. Their wealth and youthful beauty, which gave them so much pleasure, have now become their enemies. The order was given to the soldiers, who dishonored them, and carried them away. If it is pleasing to God's Will, He bestows greatness; if is pleases His Will, He bestows punishment pg(417-18)

On the nature of Mughal rule under Babur:
First, the tree puts down its roots, and then it spreads out its shade above. The kings are tigers, and their officials are dogs; they go out and awaken the sleeping people to harass them. The public servants inflict wounds with their nails. The dogs lick up the blood that is spilled. Source:Rag Malar, (pg.1288)

From an article by Dr. Harsh Narain on Muslim Testimony (Indian Express 2/26/90):
Since the establishment of Zahiru'd-Din Ghazi's rule, officers and religious leaders spread Islam vigorously desteroying the Hindu faith. We cleared the filth of Hinduism from Faizabad and Avadh.

Sultan Firuz Shah Tughlaq
(from Insha-i-Mahry by Amud Din Abdullah bin Mahru)
Delhi: -a punishment in detail (from Tarikh-i-Firuz Shahi)

"A report was brought to the Sultan than there was in Delhi an old Brahman who persisted in publicly performing the worship of idols in his house and that people of the city, both Muslims and Hindus used to resort to his house to worship the idol. The Brahman had constructed a wooden tablet which was covered within and without with paintings of demons and other objects. An order was accordingly given to the Brahman and was brought before Sultan.The true faith was declared to the Brahman and the right course pointed out. but he refused to accept it. A pile was risen on which the Kaffir with his hands and legs tied was thrown into and the wooden tablet on the top. The pile was lit at two places his head and his feet. The fire first reached him in the feet and drew from him a cry and then fire completley enveloped him. Behold Sultan for his strict adherence to law and rectitude."

Delhi : (after Hindus paid the toleration tax (zar-i zimmiya) and poll-tax(jizya) they were foolish enough to build their temples.so...) "Under divine guidance I (Sultan) destroyed these temples and I killed the leaders of these infedility and others I subjected to stripes and chastisement "

Gohana (Haryana):
"Some Hindus had erected a new idol-temple in the village of Kohana and the idolaters used to assemble there and perform their idolatrous rites. These people were seized and brought before me. I ordered that the perverse conduct of these leaders of this wickedness be punished by publicly abd that they should be put to deathe before the gate of the palace."

Jajnagar:(Expedition objectives as stated by Sultan: Source:Ainn-ul-Mulk)

massacring the unbelievers

demolishing their temples

hunting the elephants

getting a glimpse of their enchanting country

Orissa:'Sirat-i-Firoz Shahi' records his expedition with the following words:
"Nearly 100,000 men of Jajnagar had taken refuge with their women, children, kinsmen and relations The swordsmen of Islam turned the island into a basin of blood by the massacre of the unbelievers. Women with babies and pregnant ladies were haltered, manacled, fettered and enchained, and pressed as slaves into service in the house of every soldier."
The Jihads of Shihabuddin,
the Sultankalka of Ghur

Around 1140, the Islamized Turko-Mongol chiefs of the Shansabanid tribe occupied Ghor in Afghanistan. Initially it was a vassal of the Ghaznavid Sultans, but around 1130 it came into conflict with them, after one of the leading Shansabanid nobles was murdered by the Ghaznavid Sultan, Bahram. A ferocious war ensued between the Sultans of Ghor and Ghazni, till Alla-ud-din Ghori invaded Ghazni with his entire cavalry and wrested it from Bahram. Alla-ud-din sacked the Indian spoils that Mahmud had placed there, massacred the city’s population in a 7-day killing spree and subsequently burnt it down. The next Ghaznavid Sultan, Khushro Maliq was driven out of Afghanistan by a coalition of Oghuz Turks and the Ghorids in 1157, and the Oghuz took Ghazni. The sons of Alla-ud-din, Ghiyas-ud-din Mu’azz-ud-din Ghori and Shihab-ud-din Muhammad Ghori defeated the Oghuz and annexed Ghazni in 1174. Ghiyas-ud-din, crowned himself Sultan, and appointed his brother Sultankalka. Shihab-ud-din was assigned the task of extending the kingdom to the East and he naturally gravitated towards India. 13 bloody campaigns that ravaged Northern India followed:

• Early in 1175 he invaded Punjab and sacked and burned Uch...(1)

• In 1178 he advanced south and marched towards Gujarat, but here the Indians acted quickly and rallying under the western chAlukya king MUlarAja II routed the Islamic forces completely forcing him to retreat...(2)

• In 1179 Ghori sent a message to PrithivirAja chAhamAna to make common cause with him against the Chalukyas. Prithivaraj however, wise disregarding his foolish minister, kadambavAsa’s advise to make a common cause with Ghori, preemptively attacked NaDDula and reconquered it from the Moslems.

• Shihab recovered in 1180 and invaded Sindh and ravaged the population carrying away much loot...(3)

• Then Shihabuddin Muhammad, quickly followed it up in 1181 and 1184 with two invasions of Lavapura (Lahore) accompanied with much slaughter...(4+5)

• In 1186 he invaded the Ghaznavid occupied Punjab and defeated the Sultan Khushro Maliq and wrested Punjab...(6)

• 1188 The Ghur Sultankalka invaded the ChAhamAna kingdom and sacked the fort of Tabarhindah killing the Hindu male populace and raping the women. Hindu refugees flocked around Delhi alarming the ChAhamAnas...(7)

• 1191 PrithivirAj advanced to meet Shihabuddin’s raid and routed him in the great battle of Tarai. While the Muslims suffered a crushing defeat, the Indians failed to butcher them to man and allowed Shihab to get away unharmed. He fled back to Central Asia leaving Punjab completely undefended...(8)

• 1191 PrithivirAj attacked Tabarhindah and took it back from the Muslims. Here the biggest mistake of the Hindus was not to reconquer and arm Punjab suitably.

• 1192 Shihab returned and sacked Tabarhindah again. This was followed by the second battle of Tarai, the ChAhamAna army was crushed and Prithiviraj was captured and brutally tortured to death...(9)

• 1192 the Ghur Sultankalka made a second trust towards Ajayamerupura (Ajmer) and sacked it smashing Hindu temples and a Hindu university in course of this invasion. The Hindus captured in this expedition caused slave prices to fall to a few Dirhams in the Muslim markets...(10)

• 1193 The sultankalka invaded Kannauj and slew the GAhadwala king Jayachandra. He followed this up with an invasion of vArANsipura slaughtering Hindus with great savagery and desecrating the holy city...(11+12)

After this, his viceroy Kutub-ud-din (also his lover?) and the Turkish adventurer Ikhtiyaruddin Khalji furthered the violence of Islam in the land of Hind. Meanwhile Shihab’s brother died in Ghazna and he crowned himself Sultan and immediately launched himself into another Jihad on the infidels of Hindustan in 1206. The exact course of this campaign is not clear. While on the North-western reaches of the Sindhu, he was ambushed by the Khokar chiefs and shot down by an arrow...(13). Thus ended the carrier of the Moslem brigand who brought misery to the whole of northern India through his 13 invasions
The Jihads of
Alla-ud-din Khalji

The one time when it appeared that the sanAtana dharma might vanish off the face of bhArata was during the ferocious jihads of Alla-ud-din of the Khalji tribe. The Khaljis entered India from Ghazna during the reign of the Mamluq Sultan Qutub-ud-din Aibak. The first of them to make his mark Bakhtiyar Khalji, whose savage jihad in Bihar and destruction of the Indian centers of learning like Nalanda is only well known. Jalal-ud-din Khalji, another member of this tribe, was accepted as the Sultan of Delhi by a confederation of Turkic tribes, after the collapse of the Mamluq Balban’s regime. Jalal opened his innings by consolidating the Turkic regime in India by suppressing other competing Maliqs and appointed his nephew, Alla-ud-din to expand his domains. We shall briefly consider his campaigns:

• In 1291 he was sent to destroy the remaining Kaffirs of Bhilsa in Central India. Il-tut-mish, the Mamluq had earlier desecrated this Hindu-Buddhist temple-university complex but it had fallen away from Islamic control. Alla invaded and conquered Bhilsa and total exterminated the Kaffirs and left behind a ghost city whose long lost temple remnants can be seen even today.

• 1292 He attacked the Vidisha in Central India, a great center of learning and destroyed it completely and slew the inhabitants.

• 1292 His spies got him the news of the great wealth of the yAdava dynasty of mahArashTra and Alla promptly invaded it and carried away a large amount of loot.

• 1295 In a remarkable campaign Alla carried the war right to Devagiri the heart of the yAdava kingdom. He demolished and looted all the temples in Devagiri.

• In 1296 with this loot Alla bought most of the Khalji army and murdered his uncle Jalal and drove away his aunt and cousin and declared himself Sultan of Hind. Jaziya was imposed on the Kaffirs.

• 1296. Latter in the year he joined the Southern Alliance of the Chagadai Ulus (predominantly Turkic tribes) against the Northern Alliance (predominantly Mongolic) and routed the latter in a battle at Jallandar securing the Panjab for himself.

• In 1297 he invaded Gujarat and destroyed the ancient Surya temples at Mehsana and subjugated the Hindus of the land with much slaughter. The rAja of Gujarat fled to Devagiri and the Hindu kings tried to fight back under shankara yAdava. Alla sent Ulugh Khan and Nusrat Khan against them, who defeated the yAdavas and the Gujarat king. They captured and castrated a Hindu youth who was name Maliq Kaffr and presented him to Alla, who took him as his lover.

• 1298 He sent his fiercest il-ghazi, Zafar Khan, to wage a jihad against the pagan Northern Alliance chief Suldus who was sent by Chagadai Kha’Khan Duwa. The battle concluded in a draw after fierce fighting.

• 1298 Later in the year he battled against Qutulugh Khawaja, a son of Duwa, of the Northern Alliance, the results were inconclusive

• 1299 Qutulugh Khawaja reached the doors of Delhi with a large horde. Alla’s il-ghazi’s Zafar Khan, Ulugh Khan and Nusrat Khan defeated Qutulugh Khawaja, but Zafar Khan was shot dead by an arrow in this battle.

• 1299 Ulugh Khan was sent to quell the Hindu resistance in Gujarat. He conquered the fort of Junagad and demolished all the temples in the surrounding regions and then went on to attack Somnath and destroy the great temple that the Hindus had rebuilt.

• 1299. Hammira Deva of the Ranthambhor defeated Alla as he attempted to sack the Rajput stronghold.

• 1301. Alla returned with his entire force to sack Ranthambhor. He succeeded and slew Hammira Deva. He conducted a massive temple demolition operation destroying all the temples of Jhain and Sawai Madhopur and slew the inhabitants.

• 1303. Chittor alone that had held out against the Muslims, attracted Khalji’s attention due to its beautiful queen Padmini. Khalji sacked and burned Chittor after slaying Rana Rattan Singh.

• 1303. Turghai and Ali Beg of the Northern Alliance wrested the Punjab from Alla and invaded Sindh. They blockaded Delhi itself for two months but retreated due to the summer heat.

• 1304. Jihad was launched on Ujjaini. This ancient center of Indian learning was destroyed completely. Chanderi was attacked next by Alla and the ancient temples were demolished.

• 1305. Malwa and Mandu were savaged and the inhabitants slaughtered.

• 1306. Then Turghai and Ali Beg defeated Khalji’s army and captured Lahore and Amroha near Delhi. Tughlaq Khan, a general of Alla, counter-attacked defeated and captured 9000 Pagan Turko-Mongols of the Northern Alliance. He had them all trampled to death by elephants for refusing to accept Islam.

• 1308. Qebek (another son of Chagadai ruler, Duwa) and Ibaqmand of the Northern Alliance struck back captured Multan. But Alla defeated them on their way back and again slaughtered all the pagan prisoners he took.

• 1308. Later in the year, the Rajputs regrouped in Sivana and declared independence but Alla smashed them in a lightning campaign and destroyed the temples in the region.

• 1309. He sent Maliq Kaffr against Devagiri that was attempting to reassert itself. Maliq Kaffr defeated the yAdavas and penetrated the Hoysala kingdom.

• 1310 Maliq Kaffr destroyed Dwarasamudra after a fierce battle and ended the Hindu Hoysala rule over those regions.

• 1311 Maliq Kaffr devastated Telengana and destroyed the temples of Warangal. He then invaded Madhurai and destroyed the Pandyan kingdom. The temples of Madhurai and Chidambaram were destroyed. Kaffr returned with enormous amounts of gold looted from the destroyed temples.

• 1311 Alla invaded Jalor to destroy the Rajput fight back and massacred the Hindu population while destroying the city.

• 1313 Devagiri made another attempt to defy the Muslim terror, Alla personally invaded mahArashTra to ravage the Devagiri kingdom.

• 1314 Alla more or less became a puppet in the hand of his lover Kaffr and subsequently died in 1316.

• 1316 Death.

Thereafter, Maliq Kaffr killed all the members of the Khalji tribe except for Qutbuddin Mubarak, Alla’s last son, and ruled in his name. Kaffr was murdered by the Turkish chiefs of the Southern Alliance and Mubarak ascended the throne. In 1318 Qutbuddin Mubarak invaded Devagiri again as its ruler Haripala Deva had cast off the Muslim yoke. Haripala faced a massive defeat and was captured. He was skinned alive and his head and skin were placed on display at the entrance to the Devagiri fort. Thus ended the yAdava dynasty and Hindu sovereignty in mahArashTra. Mubarak’s lover Khusru murdered him and made himself Sultan. Amir Qazaghan of the Qara’Unas tribe, from Konduz, became the lord of the Southern Alliance and sent his commander al Ghazi al Maliq Tughlaq to seize the throne of Delhi after murdering Khusru.

Sources: Histoire des Mongols D’Ohsson.; Hafiz-i-Abru, trns Byani (Paris 1936). Tazjiyat-al-amsar va tajriyat of Wassaf; A Forgotten Empire : Vijayanagar : A Contribution to the history of India", Robert Sewell
Aurangazeb (1658 C.E. - 1707 C.E.)
Aurangzeb considered himself "The Scourge Of The Kafirs" (non-believers) and closed Hindu schools and libraries. In his lifetime he destroyed more than 10,000 Hindu, Buddhist and Jam temples and often erected mosques in their stead.3 In 1669 in Agra he had hacked off the limbs of the recalcitrant Hindu King Gokla and in 1672 several thousand revolting Hindus were slaughtered in Mewat.

From: Maasi-i-Alamgiri

Issued general order to destroy all centers of Hindu learnings including Varnasi and destroyed the temple at Mathura and renamed it as Islamabad
In Khandela (rajastan) he killed 300 Hindus in one day for they resisted the destruction of their temple.
In Udaipur all Hindus of the town were killed as they vowed to defend the temple of Udaipur from destruction.
172 temples were destroyed in Udaipur.
66 temples were pulled down in Amber. All Hindu clerks were dismissed from the office of the Imperial empire.
In Pandhpur , Maharashtra, the Emperor ordered and executed the destruction of temple and butchering of cows within the temple.
Aurangazeb also tortured to death the disciples of Guru Tegh bahadur before his death and also killed Guru. Guru Tegh Bahadur - the pride of Hindustan was martyred for he spoke for the persecuted Hindus of Hindustan. Aurangazeb also killed Guru Gobind singh's two children aged less than ten by walling them alive for not accepting the choice of Islam. In Punjab Muslim governors killed hundreds of Sikh children and made Sikh women eat the flesh of their own killed children. Banda Bahadur another great Sikh martyr before being torturd to death was also made to eat the flesh of his own children killed before his eyes. Any Muslim bringing the head of a dead Sikh was also awarded money

Jahangir (1605 C.E. - 1628 C.E.)
Source: Tuzuk-i-Jahangiri
Though in the beginning of his rule Jahangir followed the humanistic rule of his father Akbar the great -the policy of sulehkul even issued a proclamation against the forcible conversion of Hindus to Islam, he revoked Akbar's orders that those who have been forcibly converted from Islam could return to Hinduism. He severely punished Kaukab, Sharif and Abdul Latif for showing inclination to Hinduism. He also prohibited the free inter-marriage customs between Hindus and Muslims in Kashmir. Hindus marrying Muslim girls and those who had already married were given a hoice between Islam and death. Many were killed.

Jahangir's torture of Guru Arjun Dev ji: Guru was imprisoned at Lahore fort. He was chained to a post in an open place exposed to the sun from morning to evening in the summer months of May to June. Below his feet a heap of sand was put which burnt like a furnace. Boiling water was poured on his naked body at intervals. His body was covered with blisters all over. In this agony Guru used to utter.

Tera Kiya Metha lage, naam padarath Nanak mange(whatever you ordain appears sweet. I supplicate for the gift of name)

The Guru was ordercd to be executed. In addition a fine of Rupees two lakhs was imposed on him. Some historians say that, as a measure of clemency at the intervention of Mian Mir, this fine was imposed in lieu of the sentence of death. The Sikhs offered to pay the fine themselves but the Guru forbade them to do so. He replied to the Emperor, "Whatever money I have is for the poor, the friendless and the stranger. If thou ask for money thou mayest take what I have; but if thou ask for it by way of fine, I shall not give thee even a Kaurz (penny)." The Guru accepted death by torture
Shah Jahan (1658 C.E. - 1707 C.E.)
In 1632 Shah jahan ordered that all Hindu temples recently erected or in the course of construction should be razed to the ground. In Benares alone seventy six temples were destroyed. Christian churches at Agra and Lahore were demolished. In a manner befitting the Prophet he had ten thousand inhabitants executed by being "blown up with powder, drowned in water or burnt by fire". Four thousand were taken captive to Agra where they were tortured to try to convert them to Islam. Only a few apostacised, the remainder were trampled to death by elephants, except for the younger women who went to harems.

Shahjahan put enormous eonomic pressure on Hindus particularly peasents to become Muslims. The criminals too were forced to become Muslims.

Source: Badshah Nama, Qazinivi & Badshah Nama , Lahori

When Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus...The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts....Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars.

Source: Manucci, Storia do Mogor vol-II p.451 & Travels of Frey Sebastian Manrique

Under Shahjahan peasents were compelled to sell their women and children to meet their revenue requirements....The peasents were carried off to various Markets and fairs to be sold with their poor unhappy wives carrying their small children crying and lamenting. According to Qaznivi Shahjagan had decreed they should be sold to Muslim lords

Yes, good day at work, but bad day on women's issues and in finding consensus on updated Shariah applications on women and financial services.

And I should have not been reading the threads on Mormons and mainstreaming. The Mormons I've meet are really nice people. I really don't see why they deserve the vilifications I've read in these threads. After all, all religious entities have their own problems related to gender and gays.

And people wonder why I use Jihadist. I'm constantly struggling with my own impatience too, among others, and need to remind myself constantly to strive for Greater Jihad, which is tougher.

Brother Patel, how refreshing to read mature words of interfaith appreciation. As the human race achieves unity in diversity and tolerance of differences, we come closer to knowing the "TRUTH" that we are all children of a loving God. By governing our lives by the truth we learn that by bringing all truth together we will enlarge the CIRCLE OF LOVE and UNDERSTANDING among all people. When we strive to establish peace among all nations, cultures, religions, and those with no religion, we receive the blessings of God.

By acknowledging the spiritual truths of other faiths through emphasis on the similarities in belief and lifestyle, we fulfill God's mandate to love one another as He has loved us.

If all people of faith would re-commit themselves to ideals of tolerance and mutual respect we could be a revolutionary force for good the world over. When we acknowledge each other with consideration and compassion we discover the ability to coexist peacefully in spite of deep differences. Criticism, judgment and efforts to discredit other religions merely cause division and creates confusion. As people of faith engage in this subtle evil they are unwittingly advancing the cause of evil. Those who espouse adversarial treatment of other faiths further the plan of the Adversary of our souls who is the father of lies.

In my faith as a Mormon we are taught to stand together with people of other faiths against social and moral inequities while acknowledging similarities in belief and lifestyle. Above all, to be respectful of beliefs they hold as sacred. We believe in allowing all mankind the privilege of worshiping God according to their own conscience, desires and religious persuasion.

We firmly believe that God works through all people everywhere to accomplish His eternal plan for his children. We believe that the great religious leaders of the world were given moral truths through a portion of God's light. They were chosen to enlighten nations and bring higher levels of understanding.

The most helpful approach is to recognize the truths and values we share with others. It is inevitable, and perhaps it is with heavenly intent, that theological differences exist. As a Mormon I do not agree with the teachings of Islam that deny the divinity of Jesus Christ or the need for modern prophets. But by being humble and open to spiritual light whatever its source, we can benefit from similarities such as FAITH, PRAYER, FASTING, REPENTANCE, CHARITY, COMPASSION, MODESTY, and STRONG FAMILIES which are the building blocks of community life and individual spirituality.

God is the ultimate source of light and truth whether in heaven or on earth. Friendship, mutual respect, and love are rare and precious commodities in our world today. Neal A. Maxwell said, "Love never needs a visa. It crosses over all borders and links generations and cultures." We should all seek to treasure those things that are virtuous and praiseworthy in other faiths.

Finally, let me share some relative words of wisdom: "While one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy, the Great Parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard; He views them as His offspring, and without any of the contracted feelings that influence the children of men... He holds the reins of judgment in His hands;... He will judge them, not according to what they have not, but according to what they have, those who have lived without law, will be judged without law, and those who have a law, will be judged by that law... and when the designs of God shall be made manifest, and the curtain of futurity be withdrawn, we shall all of us eventually have to confess that the Judge of all the earth has done right." - Joseph Smith.

God bless you on your mission to “make the forces of interfaith cooperation stronger than the forces of religious extremism.” Perhaps what is needed is a select network or community of religious people working together sharing ideas for a better world.

virtu - no doubt that was moderate islamics. we have identified 6 more moderate islamics in new jersey. i knew we would find some. now i know how to identify them. they are the ones who have not committed a crime yet, they are in the planning stage.

Hello E C L A T i On, Not Eclati Off!

Religious police shut a Canadian Embassy booth and another for a Montreal private college at a Saudi Arabia fair last week allegedly because they were being run by women, the globeandmail.com reports.
"From what I hear ... the religious police were very rude,” said George Chrysomilides, president of the Canadian Education Network, adding that the booths have been part of the event for 10 years and staffers have never encountered such problems.
“They shouted at them in a way that was disrespectful and they shut down the booth, the Canadian Embassy booth as well as the LaSalle College booth," Chrysomilides said.
Organizers for the Canadian contingent said the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice forced the three women staffing the booths to leave the fair, even though they had been cleared to attend.
The Canadian Embassy in Saudi Arabia responded by calling the religious police’s reported actions “very damaging to Saudi Arabia's international reputation.”
Women in Saudi Arabia are required to wear conservative coverings and are not allowed to work in mixed environments, but Chrysomilides said the women adhered to the rules and there shouldn’t have been a problem.

pagan - see them? i dont even know how to identify them, do you?
and i work on the computer so when i take a break i point out where islam is evil.
others point out that christians are evil, me i like to duel with islam, its like shooting fish in a barrel.

Jihadist: What's wrong? You sound bitter and sarcastic tonight. Bad news day?

...and Anonymous

Do take time out to go to the movies, listen to music, eat and drink well, have fun with sports etc. Even Muslims do that and enjoyed doing that more that thinking up 649 ways to take over the world as you insisted we are.

Oh, pssst.... by the way, the Islamofascists have taken over Muncie, Indiana and Peoria, Iowa while you are spending time spewing bile here. They are implementing Shariah law there already and Hilary Clinton allegedly said on Foxy Network - "Give me liberty from burqa or give me death!"

Come on Anonymous, get up and away from your computer monitor and keyboards, go get you guns and shoot them up before North America becomes a caliphate. The KKK are looking for recruits as freedom fighters against these Islamofascists.

Ahhh....perceptions and notions at work again.

E.g. for me, the epitome of the cool American guy is John Malkovich and Josh Hartnett. The way they move, the way they talk, the way they sound. And I measure idleal (mythical?) American guys by them admittedly.

Naturally, Americans and non-Americans would disagree on what is the "cool" American guy or hunk is. There's Tom Cruise, there's Clint Eastwood, there's Adam Sandler and such. The same way posters disagree on Mormons, women, Muslims and Islam here based on their own ideals, notions and perceptions.

And Mr. Eboo Patel. Beautiful story of coming of age - spiritually and sexually, (er, sexual awareness if I'm making you blush), what we were, want to be and are.

Salam

Maybe you should *find out,* Anonymous. You don't seem to want to see any. Why they aren't out in the streets marching, well, probably about the same reason too many Christians are quiet about the hate speech from their own quarters here in America.

Yeah, Islam believes that one day will be the only religion in the world, ...Christianity contents itself with an end of the world where 'God' obliterates everyone else via holy armies and various geophysical activity.

Again, I see little difference, especially in speech and action.

Just the things that it was considered *heretical,* or Pagan or 'Godlessly-Communist' to do about the environment in recent crucial decades make some pretty big war and death pretty inevitable, whether or not anyone calls it a jihad or crusade, first.

This hate costs time and lives. I'm not saying, 'Don't defend yourself,' ...I sure will. But I see little difference in the brand names.

wanting peace is not the same as having peace. we hope that everyone wants peace and when they say they do we grasp it like a drowning man grabs a life raft.
the closest example is hitler. he and churchill agreed to "peace in our time" and all that had to be done was look beyond the writing of hitler and his history of grabbing other peoples land.
but everyone wanted peace so when hitler said he wanted peace they ignored reality and said ok.
you want islam to want peace too, you hope that islamics have the same values that you have and that peace for islam is the same as peace for you. but is it?
look at the recent acts of islam, do they want peace? have you seen any evidence of it? where have you seen it? have you seen the common islamic in the streets demanding an end to islamic agression? have you seen them marching to stop the intafada in israel? how about to stop hamas and/or hezbulla? how about iran and its stated purpose to eliminate israel from the face of the earth? where have we seen islamics demanding peace?
and what is the definition of peace? in islam there can only be peace when islam rules the world, so if an islamic tells you he wants peace, he does not mean an end to the fighting, he means the total destruction of all competing religions and the world under the control of islam and an islamic government.
words matter and the definition of something like peace can put one at a disadvantage if that definition is not the same as yours.
so again i ask, what is a moderate islamic and how are they different that a run of the mill islamic and how do we tell them apart.

Ah, well, Anonymous, I wouldn't want a Muslim theocracy any more than I'd want a Christian one. (Especially not the way Americans are trained to take isolated bits of a book 'literally' (or however they want) and proclaim it the 'Unchanging Will Of The Biggestest God Ever!' It's just that if you put events in their cultural context, I see no real structural difference.

The reason there aren't a lot of overt religious wars by Christians going on, on any kind of scale, is because, frankly, those empires hit their limits and *contracted* long ago. Fanatics still go and mess with other people's cultures, and still run do highly-coercive things through economic means.

No, I'm not comfortable with the language in any of those book-religions' books. Don't see a whole lot of difference between Oliver Cromwell and Ian Paisley and yer latest Ayatollah, ...perhaps the only difference is circumstance and means.

America made Apartheid look pretty cozy on some counts till pretty recently in history, after all. I was born to the generation right *after* Stonewall, before which Biblical means were used to justify rape and torture and murder of queer folks by *police,* and it's not like that sort of thing has even really ended.

Whenever religious texts are used in regressive and reactionary ways, the likes of Abu Ghraib is never far behind. It doesn't even have to be *explicit,* just a devaluing and dehumanizing of people as 'enemies...' then when the thin chocks of authoritarian prohibitions are knocked away, say, by no one looking, ...bad things happen, people try to justify *those* actions by making the enemy seem still *worse,* and from there, things just have a way of snowballing.

Kindness and empathy and fearlessness snowball, too, though. We're humans. We're *made* to connect and communicate. That can be turned by a book and a little fear into a need to control belief at any cost, or it can be turned into something like that 'communion of man' you vaguely alluded to.

It's our humanity that is the answer, not fearmongering.

Woof, indeed. Interesting world, lately, ennit? :)

Wicca does have the advantage of being structurally-harder to fake or suborn on any kind of scale, and either directly spanking 'evil' people who try, or boring them out:
"Trees? Goddess? Work? Perfect love and perfect trust? When's the orgy? Aww, this isn't what the priests I'm trying to piss off said it'd be like at *all!* L8r, I'm going to play with chaos magick!"

Also a highly-substantial population of folks with a real sensitivity to abuses of power and spurious arguments from authority. Ought to hold off the creeps for a while. :)

pagan - ill try one more time.
i have quoted the koran many times and i have listed the past and current wars started and prosecuted for the sole purpose of spreading islam.
i have quoted parts of the koran that say to hate, torture, hold for ransom, murder and force conversions on those that dont want to be islamic.
i have shown that in the last few years tens of millions and maybe moe than 100 million islamics calling for the death of a cartooist and newspaper publishers. i have shown the same calls for death for a pope that uses the statements of a different pope, who condemned as evil the forced conversions called for in the koran. do you remember the million and millions who demanded the pope death for that, because they saw it as their god given right to kil or convert.
what i have not seen is even a small amount of islamics marching to protest those other islamics.
you do realize that islam is forcing itself on you by telling you that it is death if you draw a picture of moho.
so what is a moderate islamic? i have not seen any. i keep asking and no one will tell me. do they reject those hateful portions of the koran and do they do it publically? do they protest the mosques where such things are being taught.
or is the moderate islamic a figment of someones fantasy? i have not met any.
and i know a lot. i know past ministers of islamic countries, i even have a koran autographed by a saudi minister.
there is nothing wrong with the people, but inasmuch as their religion controlls their relationship with the rest of the world, you cannot discount it.
if a man tells you that he has a book and that this book controlls his relationship with everyone and everything, that it sets his moral tone with the rest of humanity, do you ask what it says, or do you read it? i read it. and if that book has some nice things in it but it is also full of hate, what do you think of the person who is ruled by it? and if that book if mein kampf, do you let them say, well im a moderate nazi, im just going along, but i dont agree with it, but they do nothing to stop it. are they as guilty as those who practice it.
and if that book is the koran, i ask the same question, do you let them get away with saying i dont really bother with it.
now the strange thing about christians is that jesus said love one another, and while there are two main branches of islam, there are hundreds of different christians, and none of them appear to follow the literal words of the bible, even fundamentalists.
so when you can tell me what a moderate islamic is, i would be happy to know it.

and as for boo boy - he is another one that smiles and does nothing to change the hate within islam. i have already quoted his words, and his nutty story which seems to change about racial slurs. and his reference to jewish terrorists and no matter how hard i look i dont see jews straping bombs on themselves and blowing up icr cream parlors or pizza parlors or night clubs to kill only women and children. i have read over 100 of his articles and not once has he come out and condemned islamic killings.

Anon-

I'm going to give it one more try. There are over one billion people who follow the Islamic faith, who, like you or me, just want to live their lives in peace. You paint everyone who is a Muslim with the same brush. There are evil people who follow Islam; there are evil people in every group you'd care to name (with the possible exception of Wiccans!) But when you deem an entire class of people evil because of the actions of a few, you become just as evil as they are.

"“On Faith” panelist Eboo Patel is founder and executive director of the Interfaith Youth Core, a Chicago-based international nonprofit working to make the forces of interfaith cooperation stronger than the forces of religious extremism."

If you are so passionately against the Muslim extremists, it would make more sense to join Mr. Patel, rather than rail against someone who is trying to fight extremists. Blessed Be.

to PaganPlace:

Arf, Arf! Woof! (wags tail)

"have never seen the quote of if i kill you your blood is upon you. you got that one all wrong.
the old testament assertion that it was a killing offense for men to have sex with men is not enforced anyplace in the world that i know of. "

Like I said, I've seen it used by Christians to threaten *me,* (with rape and death) and I'm not even a man.

The point is that your claims that Islam is *uniquely* evil while other book-religions, of course are totally incapable of such things, even when they've done them throughout history, ...is just you looking for enemies and not seeing the real problems.

In other words, your defense of Christianity and Judaism is based on the same arguments that you reject coming from Muslims.

This is especially important to wrap your mind around when a lot of people, out of the *fear* you promote, want to create oppressive theocracies of their *own.*

It seems your agenda is to prove how 'bad' Islam is, compared to everyone else.

If it's liberty and justice you value, the answer isn't amplifying the hatred and fear, which'll only cause a lot of people to abandon the very freedoms they thought they were protecting.

This is not only a really bad idea, it's also hypocrisy. Refusing to see it for such won't change that. Fear won't keep us safe. Fear makes mobs ...and big mistakes with dangerous objects.

"now islamics may do it, i know they kill for adultry, but i dont know a country that follows jewish law abouyt that."

Again, look up 'Dominionism.'

I think you're simply wanting to project the whole mess onto *one kind of people* while actually making the problems worse.

Enough.

pagan did i say i was ruled by a book? what i am ruled by is the constitution and the laws of the state i reside in. everything else is personal and does not effect my physical conduct to others.

pagan:
islam is different than christianity and any other religion. every war islam is involved in is religious and for religious purposes or so they say.
other people get into wars for the same reasons they did in the past, you have something they want and they are going to try to take it.
in the old days if you won you got it, if you lost you lost what you had.
as for radicals - what is a moderate islamic? i can look around the world and not see one war with christians involved which was started for the purpose of forcing jesus and being a christian into their reality.
but i can see many islamic wars for the purpose of forcing islam on people - or killing them if they do not convert.
and in america we actually stop violent conduct.
and you have to remember something. i never said it was wrong to believe in islam, i said it was wrong to force it on others. yes there are many things i see as offensive in islam, far too much hate, but its the killing that i want stopped. they can believe how ever they want - not my business - until they decided to go back to killing to force conversions.
and yes there is something inherent in the koran - it specifically says kill to convert. i have just quoted it.
i have never seen the quote of if i kill you your blood is upon you. you got that one all wrong.
the old testament assertion that it was a killing offense for men to have sex with men is not enforced anyplace in the world that i know of. now islamics may do it, i know they kill for adultry, but i dont know a country that follows jewish law abouyt that.
i will not delude myself to thinking that islam is anything but evil.
murdering vangough for a movie. asking for death and having millions riot over a picture of moho. that would be them inforcing their religious beliefs on the rest of us. demaning the death of the pope for saying it was evil to force conversions as the koran commands.
what is this but pure evil.
name one islamic country today that is a paradise or where you wife whould like to live.
the first thing they did in iran after the shaw left was reduce th age of consent for sex with a minor to 9 years old. do you know any 9 year old capable of agreeing to having sex, much less knowing what they are agreeing to?
no, islam is evil.

Actually, I'm against Romney cause he was a corporate toadie when he was governor of Massachusetts, and no better than the rest of the religious-conservative lot.

See what I mean? You were busy proving my point about what'd happen if I went and spelled it out for you.

The problem is when you start taking *any* book as 'Ultimate law' ..it doesn't offer protection from horror: it offers excuses to *commit* them while disavowing responsibility for things which, you're right, no book can really cover.

We must. As living, feeling beings. You may use a book how you wish, but when it comes down to it, any of them are pretty much all-purpose tools, too -readily-abuseable.

It was an interesting article. Mormons are generally good, God fearing people who are accepting of all others regardless of which religion they are aligned with. You may have heard or read some negative things about presidential candidate Mitt Romney who is also a mormon. This is only because he faces extreme religious bigotry and extreme political opposition. To find out about Romney go to http://mittromneyin2008.com