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The reason he did this is to clarify something that wasn't made clear in VCII, that the Novus Ordo was a new way to do the mass, but not the only. No where was the previous rite banned, it was just assumed it was. There has been much talk about how the changes of VCII were poorly implemented and how it caused some problems. This is not a step back at all. The Latin Rite, as it is sometimes referred to, has been allowed for some time, at the request of the people to their Bishop, now the approval comes from the individual priests. Really, that's all the more this was: a change in who makes the call.

As a response to Melvin, the Church views itself as the one Church that Jesus established on this Earth. Other Christian faiths are referred to as Communities of Faith, and are capable of salvation due to the divine nature of grace, but do not hold the sacraments because they do not have the authority of apostolic sucession.

Don,

Here's the cite you wanted (from The Asia Times):

"I think it worth noting that Ratzinger is one of the few men alive capable of surprising the world. Ten years ago, he shocked the Catholic world with this warning:
We might have to part with the notion of a popular Church. It is possible that we are on the verge of a new era in the history of the Church, under circumstances very different from those we have faced in the past, when Christianity will resemble the mustard seed [Matthew 13:31-32], that is, will continue only in the form of small and seemingly insignificant groups, which yet will oppose evil with all their strength and bring Good into this world. [1]

"Notes:
1. In Salz der Erde, Im Gespraech mit P Seewald (Christentum und katholische Kirche an der Jahrtausendwende Stuttgart, DVA Verlag, 1996).
"
I found this at this site:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GD05Aa01.html

Well said Absalom.

Getting back to the original issue... how about a compromise (gasp). I have never been a Catholic, but having performed a lot of choral music, I know the Mass well and find it beautiful. Perhaps this may be simple minded, but why don't Catholics have a Latin Mass on the 1st Sunday of every 2nd month, and use the vernacular the rest of the time? Jesus probably would not cast anybody into Hades for making such a compromise.

The Pope's actions are incomprehensible. He just downgraded our protestant churh, yet Vatican reaffirmed papal commitment to ecumenism.

My own analysis is this: The Pope has no interest in giving doctrinal concessions to other faiths. But he will use ecumenism as a tool or channel in reaching out to the other churches so that there will be an orderly and organized return to the Catholic Church. This he will try to do through dialogue and patience.

But of course, there could be other reasons.

Thank you, Pope Benedict.

I was told that then-Cardinal Ratzinger once said, when asked about the health of the Church, that "The Church is very healthy, it's just much smaller than most people think."

I think that says it all, and I wish I could find a cite to it online. I'd rather have a smaller, healthy Catholic Church than the evil of moral relativism.

Thank you Holy Father in Rome for bringing back an instrument of worship that nobody understands. Thank you, benefactor of the Apostolic Succession that pointy headed scholars say is fake, for declaring that salvation only comes through Catholicism and that all my non-Catholic friends, especially Jews, are destined for the Fiery Pit to be tormented by demons for all Eternity. This makes for fewer friends but more lively conversation before they write me off as a nut case and seek other company.

Seriously, what must the Almighty think of his Creation and the magnificent brainpower He gave his human children when he sees pages and pages of e-mails on this Washington Post forum in one of the leading cities of the world devoted to schoolboy superstition and tribal fairytales and dogmatic insistence on obdurate obscurantism and superficial faithyness.

Where are Franklin, Jefferson, Madison and Paine when we so sorely need them, O Lord?

now when i go to mass in greece i can take my american missal with me and know what is being said.

You wouldn't understand spiritual enlightenment or what it means to be connected with mind, body and soul CANDIDE! Some feelings cannot be explained so easily.

Explain love? Or what is your definition of selfless love?

Have you ever participated in the Latin Mass? No you haven't because you have nothing of interest to say except for slander!

What's to love about the Latin mass. Latin as pronounced by American priests sounds very unattractive. Pronounced by Latins it sounds like Italian.

I look forward to celebrating the Latin mass alongside with the new mass... Both will be fruitful for true worship for the love of Christ head of the church!

They say its wrong to criticize the Second Vatican Council. Well, why don't they just set the record straight and answer some of the questions:
1. How did a noted freemason by the name of Archbishop Bugnini became in-charge of the creation of the Novus Ordo?
2. What were the six protestants doing there?
3. Why did we need the counsel of the protestants?
4. Did the 6 protestants rescued us from grave error?
5. Didn't a large majority of the Council Fathers rejected the Novus Ordo when presented to them?
6. Did the Council Fathers really wished to disband the exorcists?
7. Did the Council Fathers really wished to remove prayers to St. Michael and the Blessed Mother?
8. Did the Council Fathers really wished to remove the blessed sacrament from the center of the church and replace it with the throne of the priest?
9. Why was Bugnini allowed to brag that Vatican II was the conquest of Catholicism?
10. What about the captured masonic document revealing the game plan for Vatican II and addressing member Bishops as warlocks?

I have no problem supporting the liberal catholics, if only the above questions will be clarified. Or else, I will be led to think that Vatican II was designed to weaken the defences so that the enemy can reign.

I for one is happy about Benedict's edict. Its personal, I really find strength in prayer, specially deep expressions of worship and adoration such as the Tridentine Mass. I think Benedict has food for both the active and contemplative, so there's no point of being prejudicial. Lets just support each other, shall we?

E Favorite,

Feel free to take the words out of my mouth anytime.

Just don't take the food out of the mouths of babes** - we have Republicans for that.

** Joke - I know you'd never do that!

This is so nice an nostalgic. And confusing.

As I understand, the original scriptures, which were written in Hebrew and Aramaic, got translated into Greek, the vernacular of the day, starting in the 3rd century BCE, because the growing Jewish Diaspora in the Hellenistic world could neither read nor speak the language of their ancestors.

So also the Christian scriptures were written mostly in Greek (what happened to any Hebrew texts that might have been written? The story of Jesus did take place in Judea, Samaria and Galilee, did it not?), but the whole collection, finally agreed upon by the end of the 4th century CE, and including much of the Septuagint, got translated into Latin for why? Greek was still commonly used among scholars even in the Roman empire. Presumably, the Latin Vulgate was assembled and translated into what was then the vernacular.

Therefore, up until a later time when the Western church took to roasting people like Tyndale for translating scripture into the vernacular, translating scripture into the vernacular was a good thing?

So why, after recognizing an increasingly global world forty years ago, does this Pope regress? He doesn't. He ALLOWS traditionalists their Latin Mass as a step toward reconciliation. At least that's the way I understand the issue.

What's the problem?

I was brought up Protestant, not Catholic. Now I'm very unaffiliated, and the reason why is related to situations like this one. This is what religious leaders do. This is what they've always done. They invent a political solution and declare it to be spiritual. They make edicts and fatwas as if they were God. Since they get to make the rules, they are always above them.

The appropriate solution to disagreement in the teachings of Jesus is teaching with loving kindness. “The least will be greatest and the greatest will be least.” Remember that one? But in my experience, church leaders almost always go for the easy ways of either declaring one side heretical, or of munging together some kind of confusing and convoluted peace treaty instead of just saying: “hey we were wrong to have ever claimed that there was one right way to do something.” In this case, they did the first, and then the second, but not the third. They excommunicated Archbishop Lefebvre, and now they extend an olive branch to his estimated one millions of followers. Cool! You can have it both ways. But what they (he) don't say is that Jesus never intended to build an institution, anyway. Therefore, none of this counts. Read John 4.

The problem nowadays is that there is just so much information, contact and discussion, that smart people will figure out that the emperor is naked and these attempts to increase power (or to reclaim it) by collecting disparate groups will backfire. The Internet changes everything. The next generation won't even bother asking a religious leader for an answer to a question, they'll google it (or whatever the search engine du jour). And because we have been teaching students that there is one right way to think or to do, few will be able (at first) to negotiate the heterodoxy. But eventually, stalwart institutions of absolutes like churches and universities will crumble under their own weight.

Dear Marion,

Why does posting an Associated Press story about the RC Church's settling priest-abuse cases constitute Klan-like behavior?

I'm afraid I don't get your point.

Regards.

Hi, Marion - sometimes the essayists do respond. Susan Jacoby often does (and did in this current discussion).

As for talking with each other, I've found it very enriching - and I hope you find my response to be helpful. At very least, I answered your question, right?

Norrie - Did I take the words right out of your mouth, or what?

I wonder whether any of the original authors, columnists for Newsweek and/or WaPo have ever actually read these entries and responded?

At this juncture, my money would be on "no".

So if those of us on this thread are in dialogue with one another, but not with the original authors, then what's the point?

The important point:

There is no religion in the Spirit State aka Heaven. The Gate is open to anyone of good standing with or without the assistance of B16 or Latin Masses.

Thank you, Bgone for helping me come at last to understand why most Catholic blogs insist on moderated comments.

(Otherwise, you hear a bit too often from folks who, although they have been tactfully* rejected for full membership, remain Klansmen-wannabees . . . even when they go off their medication.)

* As tactfully as members of the Klan are capable.

Klan mentality you say? Look at the end of this page on the net, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul No one needs Jesus like the Klan needs Jesus. Me thinks ANONYMOUS made more than one case with that press release.

Now we see where "gifts to God" go. Is this "just cause" or what? PT Barnum's famous statement about another sucker being born each and every minute is an understatement. Murphy of Murphy's Law fame was an optimist for sure.

The big money goes to those leading the multitudes to hell but keeping it is a different problem altogether.

"A Klan mentality? Where?"

Thank you for driving home my point better than I could ever hope to do.

The answer to your question is, I should say, . . . rather obvious.

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: July 14, 2007
Filed at 2:45 p.m. ET

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles will settle its clergy abuse cases for at least $600 million, the largest payout to date in the church's sexual abuse scandal, The Associated Press learned Saturday.

Attorneys for the archdiocese and alleged victims are expected to announce the deal Monday, the day the first of more than 500 clergy abuse cases was scheduled for jury selection, according to two people with knowledge of the agreement. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because the settlement had not been made public.

The archdiocese and its insurers will pay between $600 million and $650 million to about 500 plaintiffs -- an average of $1.2 to $1.3 million per person. The settlement also calls for the release of confidential priest personnel files after review by a judge assigned to oversee the litigation, the sources said.

*********************

A Klan mentality? Where?

My word.

I had been under the impression that Newsweek and the Washington Post were reasonably serious mainstream publications, attracting a reasonably educated audience.

I find instead that many of the recent anti-Catholic comments on this thread are of the level of discourse one would expect to encounter at a fairly typical rally of the Ku Klux Klan, Selma or Mobile, Alabama, circa 1936-37.

Is there perhaps a lingering Klan mentality out there even among educated readers . . . ?

IN RE: POPE BENEDICT XVI:

By taking the name "Benedict", the Pope has necessarily made himself "a Benedictine".

In his "Dictionary", composed between the years 1881 and 1906, the noted American writer, Ambrose Bierce, defined "Benedictines" as follows:

BENEDICTINES, n.

An order of monks otherwise known as black friars.

She thought it a crow but it turned out to be
A monk of St. Benedict croaking a text.
"Here's one of an order of cooks," said she--
"Black friars in this world, fried black in the next."

"THE DEVIL ON EARTH" (LONDON, 1712).

E Favorite,

I'm glad you're still posting at full steam ahead.

I enjoy what you write.

E Favorite,

I'm glad you're still posting at full steam ahead.

I enjoy what you write.

Professor Freitas wrote: ”Of course, while I may agree with the message, I do wonder about the Pope’s motives and whether he feels that somehow, the wider celebration of the Latin Mass is a first step back into the past on many other issues the Catholic Church feels threatened by in these contemporary times, and which, for now, I will resist enumerating.”

Professor Freitas, your remark that you wonder about the Pope’s motives, leaves me wondering whether you yourself have read the relevant document? (“Apostolic Letter Summorum Pontificum of The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, (given motu proprio”, dated July 7, 2007, an English translation of which may be found at http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2007/07/apostolic-letter-summorum-pontificum-of.html)

If I may draw your attention to lines in which the Holy Father notes that: “the sacred liturgy, celebrated according to the Roman use, (which) enriched not only the faith and piety but also the culture of many peoples . . . (and) has been a spur to the spiritual life of many saints . . . ” and further observes that, “no small numbers of faithful adhered and continue to adhere with great love and affection to the earlier liturgical forms . . “, one may conclude that His Holiness Pope Benedict has set forth his motives with admirable clarity and thoroughness, to wit: to enrich the faith and piety of those who adhere to the earlier liturgical forms.

If, indeed, the Pope’s expressed desire to accommodate the petitions of the faithful somehow represents “a first step back into the past,” then I would ask whether you would not agree that some elements of the past would not be worth considering reviving.

To Norrie – Agree again!

To All – I loved the Latin mass too – the drama, the cadence, the mystery, the free Latin lesson, the vocabulary building. The trouble started only when the priest faced us to give the sermon in English. That I could understand only too well – the lack of intellectual rigor, the weekly demands for money.

I learned to tune out the words, but could still hear the sternness, the disdain, the boredom. For the sake of still-practicing Catholics, I hope the new rules require Latin sermons as well. The priests could stand up there chanting verb conjugations. Everyone could use the cadence and mystery to guiltlessly tune out the priest and tune into their own truth.

I see no difference between the edicts of a Pope and the fatwas of a Ayatolla.

One Faith

This is a good idea. Do we do thing the same way? Do we believe in the same Master? Do we work for the same master? Remember that we divide the world into pieces with pieces of faith and belief that produces freedom of religions and its multiplication. Good for me and good for all of us.

How do we define our belief? Do we tell the truth to others or Do we confuse them more? Indeed, what do they look for?

In the light of truth, there is no darkness. In the search for truth, darkness invades the space. Religion is confusing, people are confused. We need to know witch master that we talk about in making rules or force people to follow rules. All religions can come down to two because we only have two leaders. Whatever we do must and reflect one or the other. Our intellectual Philosophy of life may save us or destroy us. Yet, if we are too busy question and never take time to examine, we may not do too good to ourselves.
We need to go all closets to learn about the privacy matter to know who tell the truth, who lie.
Is liberalism to say, "Yes" to everything and anything? Tolerance helps sometimes. When, then, does it not help?

Who really shook the world with goodness, signs, and wonders and everlasting promise to come back to end the world? When we know the answer, there will be peace among us.
If you have your own religion today and your own beliefs, God allows you to have it; your government allows you and what about governments and religions who do not compromise their system with your beliefs and your religion? Do you believe that Jesus had a religion, a system, and a belief? If not, why did He get so much trouble with Satan? Why His followers still have trouble today? How does it help when people shut their mouth on things they see and some others take the stand even though it is difficult for them? Who will be the final winners when all shall come to an end?

Remember that our knowledge helps us to question things, but the forces above us do not give a great deal of chance to find the true answers to our questions though we may have too many answers that make sense.

After all, we may live the Holy Father alone. Do not make war with him. We need to know who is the Greatest among all the Greats and serve Him.

I'm not an expert of the bible, but I think God has a habit of dividing things and people, such as between the weeds and the wheat, the sheep and the goat, Gentiles and Israelites... And He seems to favor a lean and mean organization, and again has a habit of downsizing His organization. The 72 deciples became 12, Gideon's army was reduced to 300. I thought, maybe Benedict is copying the habit?

First, although the Latin Mass is beautiful and brings us back to the past of Catholicism, we must be careful because of just that: It brings us back to the past. The CDF just released a document claiming that Protestant denominations have no claim to the term Church. The Church is rolling back the wheel of time and ignoring some of the most important messages and changes that came out of Vatican II.

As for the comments from George regarding the sex crimes: Liberals are not the main perpetrators of the crimes. Though it doesn't link to the Church, most of the sex crimes being done in the last few days and within the last years have been done by conservative Republicans. Mark Foley of Florida who molested the Congressional pages, the congressman from Louisiana who payed for sex, etc...all of these are illegal and wrong. All were done by conservatives. Also, most of the perpetrators in the Church abuse crisis played mind games with their victims; condemning them if they were to ever tell anyone. Any liberal priest would not condemn someone as they preach of the God of Love. So George: Please be honest when you start spreading conservative, anti-liberal propaganda. Use facts...not fiction...

Steve,

Don't twist the facts. Be honest.

The Pope makes us happier these days. He seems to understand what our souls are yearning. What is real to us is the joy that is in our hearts now. I just want to thank the Pope for this. I don't mind if thousands disagree - that has been expected.

(sigh)

Well Donna, if he ever gets hit by a bus and you are ready to move on....just mention it in your post. I know a very nice and rather handsome young man who lives in Beantown who might make for nice company.

Or you could just leave the bastard....that works for me too.

Handsome Jon,

Alas,

but YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you should turn to religion for consolation.

Regards & Sympathy.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is in response to George:

You are out of your mind. I know several priests who molested boys...they were often the most strict and conservative priests. A couple were liberal too, but not the majority. Stop making false posts.

Handsome Jon,

"Donna,

You are adorable. Some day I will marry you!"

**** I certainly understand your feelings, Jon, but you have a problem: Donna's already married.

Donna,

You are right to suspect Pope Benedict's motives concerning the restoration of the Latin Mass.

They are dark and deep.

Years ago an elderly priest told me this story:

As a young priest he was studying at the Pontifical North American College in Rome.

His mentor told him:

Here at the Vatican, nothing is as it seems, and no one will tell you the whole truth.

That was decades ago. It's still an apt comment.

The posters so far on this single thread are a bigger collection of nutters than I've seen in a very, very long time.

Reading these comments makes me deeply sad - either Benedict is some supernatural savior against satanic Vatican II (anyone who believes this should leave the Church, really) or Benedict is some evil fascist (ditto). People, please! Get a handle on things. The Latin Mass is neither an infallible tablet handed down from the divine, nor senseless mumbling. If it is approached as one part of a truly rich tradition, neither better or worse than the vernacular mass (b/c nowhere does Benedict make claims about better or worse), then it is a wonderful thing, another legitimate way of praying, one of hundreds which the Church marvelously offers. But if it is approached in the polarized, political spirit that seeems to show up all too often on the blogosphere, then it will not be a good thing.

Donna,

You are adorable. Some day I will marry you!

Benedict knows what he is doing. He has the 3rd secret of Fatima. And for those folks who would like to bring down the catholic church, try harder and make it fast, you're running out of satanic time. By the way, those who molested the children are liberals.

Rapacious wolves talk like rapacious wolves. Hatred of Cain against Abel. Yes its continuing, judge for yourselves. Jesus said, "they hate Me for no reason at all." Its OK to kill the innocent,its OK to covet your neighbor's wife, its OK to take drugs, but its not OK to pray in Latin. This evil world will hate the true Church, and that is written.

The latin mass is an anachronism designed to maintain male only superiority within the Catholic Church. The current pope is an archetype of the fascistic, mind-bending control treasured by the charlatans of episcopal authority who are so diligently attempting to undo the influence of Pope John XXIII and Vatican II the very same priests, bishops, and cardinals who brought us the pedophile scandal with all it's cover-ups and manipulations, lies and deceits. Moreover, the latin mass does a thorough job of excluding the people, especially women, from the celebration of Christ--the priest as a solo operator with his back to the people, mumbling magical incantations in a senseless language that's been purged of all references to femininity. Ad deum qui latificat, juventutem meam? Blatant bologna.

Yes, Jesus said many wonderful things...all in the Aramaic language, I might add. We have no reasong to believe he knew Latin.

Benedict XVI, be not afraid. God loves you. We love you. We found peace and joy in this Church, that's why its a great treasure. Thank you.

If you don't fit in, find your place somewhere else. Man should stop thinking that he is the center of the universe, and that all teachings should be within his taste or approval. Learn from the Pope, he obeys the One above him.

The Pope has a duty and a right to clarify internal matters. Liberals are mum about the babies aborted each day, but are ready to throw profanities to the Pope for giving the faithful an option to pray reverently, or speak about doctrines handed down from the Apostles.

Go shop for another God. The one that allows abortion, polygamy, homosexuality, whatever your heart desires. Find the God of liberalism, modernism, and sensualism. But don't go to Benedict because his God is stern. His God makes the rules.

The killers of Popes and Kennedys are under one and the same organization. Yes Pope Paul VI may have been buchered. There was a suspicion that an actor who undergo plastic surgery took his place. Pope John Paul I is about to clean up the house when he suddenly died. What I like about Catholicism is the fact that their Popes are just like their Master. They shed blood.

The messages of the Virgin Mary around the world revealed the hand of Satan at Vatican II. The truth is, the Pope was a prisoner. Did not really die a natural death. What we saw in the news or TV about Pope Paul VI were staged managed by ecclesiastical masonry . You want to know more? Do your own research. Since they cannot override the Holy Spirit in the selection of the next Pope, they just poisoned him (John PaulI). When the Holy Spirit choosed John Paul II, their agenda were once again compromised so they shot him. I wonder what are they going to do with the new Pope. The attack is starting though.

Thank you dear Holy Father for lifting the restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass. May God bless you! The Mass is the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross...Jesus re-presents Himself to the Father for our sins at every Mass. And the traditional Latin Mass represents this "Holy Sacrifice" in a clearer and more distinct manner than the modern "Novus Ordo" Mass.
So, what comes to mind when I reflect on this new directive of the Pope given on 7/7/07?
"And Jesus said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18").

Thank you dear Holy Father for lifting the restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass. May God bless you! The Mass is the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross...Jesus re-presents Himself to the Father for our sins at every Mass. And the traditional Latin Mass represents this "Holy Sacrifice" in a clearer and more distinct manner than the modern "Novus Ordo" Mass.
So, what comes to mind when I reflect on this new directive of the Pope given on 7/7/07?
"And Jesus said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18").

Who cares about the Latin Mass... Happy World Population Day!

Yeah, what a load of junk that is, huh?