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I have several questions and comments. If war is never really just, why would it matter that we have not gone to help the people of Darfur? (I am a military officer, a veteran of Iraq, and I personally think we should go to Darfur, and a hundred other places...but that's not the point.) How has pacifism helped solve that problem? How will it? Pacifist movements like MLK's have worked at various points in history, but so has naked force. Isn't it foolish to think the world would be a better place if no one ever resorted to the use of violence? What holocaust, genocide, or grave injustice did pacifism ever end? Even in MLK's case...he was only able to fight passively because of the various protections offered by the Constitution. And the Constitution was won with guns and blood. If you tried to fight the situation in Darfur with a bunch of sit-ins, what do you think would happen to you? You'd get smoked and forgotten in a matter of minutes. If you think I'm wrong, go try it and send me a post card to tell me how it works out. If I ever get that postcard, I'll shake your hand and buy you a beer...but I won't hold my breath. In the case of Iraq, how far do you think a sit-in under Saddam's regime would have gotten you? I think it would have gotten your brain splattered over a cold concrete cell wall. You can ask the unmarked graves of any who tried that method. Their silence will be response enough. Pacifism works only under the protection of force. You can debate in a civilized manner in the U.S. because naked force won that freedom loing ago and continues to protect it today, not because that freedom existed naturally. Try standing up against an armed aggressor with nothing but a picket sign, and tell me how comfortable you feel. The last Iraqi I knew who tried would regret his decision if he were still capable of regretting anything, and would probably wish the Marines had been standing behind him when he gave it a shot. Anyone who wants to disagree is of course welcome to do so...but if you do, I hope you are an Iraqi who stood up against the old Sadam regime and continues to stand up against the new insurgent one. Without a rifle, that is.

"Donna is hotter than God." How would you know in either case?

God is the sum of all perfections. Being beautiful is one of those. But Donna is hotter than God. Therefore, either she is God, or she not God, but is hotter than God. Since we agree that she is not God, she must be the latter, which is hotter than God. QED.

Let me demonstrate: Before the US, UK invasion of Iraq, insurgents were only few and far in between, collateral deaths were rare except for targeted engagements. During the post invasion, the death toll rose dramatically by some 600 percent or so, and insurgents continued to be motivated by anti Western sentiments.

So while US and UK are killing Iraqis, the death toll for last year was 34,000 approximate, mainly innocent civilians. And that is enough to render atrocious charge against humanity.

Whether Iraqis are killing Iraqis, their cause is acknowledged and realized by the toll on innocent civilians. It is a terrorist code, and Bush and Blair are reading it well. Their presence is encouraging the suicidal killings to continue which makes them liable.

Bob: So what are we waiting for? The knowledge, wisdom, and good sense of the 110th? They were sent to represent us, and uphold their oath of office, not to obey our individual commands.

Victoria BGone. Won at a time, hopefully with lasting peace the fires can be extinguished. Overnight? I pray we could be so fortunate to be that worthy of such Blessings, but until we are ready, we would never hold it....and so it must come from within.

"What drivel" Yes, please do try to control yourself. This is polite company after all.

Is there an odds maker in the house? Ice Cube's chance in Hell. Any "takers"?

quote Donna is hotter than God. unquote How would you know in either case? But it is true, God's Gifts are quite beautiful.

You are right that Bush does not show remorse, but it is even worse than that. He actually cannot fathom why Iraqis are not thankful to him personally for what he has done! That much is clear from his most recent interviews. The fact that we have caused the deaths of more than 600,000 Iraqis (as well as killing or grievously wounding more than 30,000 Americans) just doesn't register with him.

Donna Freitas,

I agree with you 100%. You must have taken my advice, gotten out of Colchester-Burlington, and gone to the Northeast Kingdom to meditate. It turned out well.

Best wishes.

The point is impeachment, not pacifism, or religion. We need to take action to limit imoral actions, don't we. There is no way to limit the immorality of this administration without insisting on a complete investigation into the excessive use of power by this executive. The procedure for such investigation is called impeachment, a constitutional process which will get to the truth of the matter.
Just as it did with President Clinton and President Nixon.

So what are we waiting for?

Victoria, stop trying to introduce facts after the mind is made up.

Are you sure, 150 wars? You must be counting every different ethnic group in Baghdad and every bar room brawl.

there are over 150 wars being fought at any given time on the planet earth today.

i would venture that war is as prevalent today as its ever been-

has anybody actually read augustine?

he was not exactly an obedient son of the church- or very pacific.

Ms. Freitas brings up an interesting point when she writes that Augustine and Aquinas developed a theory of the just war "more out of necessity than desire". Augustine realized that war could not be completely eliminated because of man's fallen nature. He also wrote in a time and place when war was a constant reality.

In no way were Aquinas and Augustine warmongers of the sort that some people on these boards have tried to portray them. For both figures, warfare should always be a last resort and be fought with at least some moral center, which is a much more enlightened attitude than many thinkers (past or present) have had regarding armed conflict.

"Just war" is a dead issue, beat to death, no such thing.

Let's talk about Donna's bio.

[Freitas asks the 'Big Questions' (Why are we here anyway)]

Donna, we're trying to perform a miracle, bring the dead "just war" back to life. Please stop beating around the Bush and say the proper magic words and phrases. We need to send 20,000 more victims, oops, soldiers to Iraq. Why? Can't be "just cause" for it's been beat to death too.

Relying on dead people, Agustine and Aquinas won't bring the dead back to life either unless those magic words and phrases revive them first. Is there an odds maker in the house?

Donna is hotter than God.

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Donna writes, [I]t is especially difficult to view the war in Iraq as somehow “just,” when genocide befalls the people of Darfur and we sit idly by. How is that “just”?

Exactly. Nothing more needs to be added.

What drivel.