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God, being in control of the universe, can prevent suffering whenever He sees fit, but wherever free will exists, consequences of choice must also exist. We refuse to remember that we are the ones who betrayed God, not vice versa. We are the ones who listened to the lies of the evil one in the Garden of Eden. We chose to mistrust the heart of God. In breaking the one command He gave us, we set in motion a life of breaking His commands.

Being able to discipline oneself for the benefit of others is the very essence of maturity. Shantideva said, “All the joy the world contains, Has come through wishing happiness for others. All the misery the world contains, Has come through wanting pleasure for oneself (at the expense of others).” How we spend our time shapes who we are, and how we assemble the persons we are is cause for social concern. What examples are adults, entrusted with the awesome responsibility for their care, to the rapidly maturing next generation who will impact our society positively or negatively depending on to what we expose them. We have experienced the natural progression of an unguarded nation towards neglect, corruption and the loss of idealism. When awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, the Dalai Lama said in his lecture, “…For if we each selfishly pursue only what we believe to be in our own interest, without caring about the needs of others, we end up harming not only others but also ourselves…” One does not have far to look to witness the chaos and devastation caused in our society due to our turning away as a nation from our Judeo-Christian roots. Our culture is rotting. Just listen to the lyrics of popular songs, pick up a book or magazine, view a movie or television show. Pay attention to the violence permeating our communities, the disrespect and lack of courtesy displayed by all, judicial tyranny, and the neglect of and abuse directed at women. (Could this be a direct result of pornography? Duh!) Then consider that perhaps we are allowing the wrong input in our lives and the lives of those who have been entrusted to our care. After all, we are raising our next generation of leaders!!! Words like diversity, pluralism and tolerance have anesthetized us to the reality of good and evil. Tolerance is the cultivation of an attitude of indifference to things we see happening around us. In the name of peace, we tolerate evil. In the name of tolerance, we accept sin and call it freedom of speech or freedom of sexual persuasion. Albert Einstein once said, “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” We dare not stand up for what we believe for fear of being labeled intolerant. Tolerance sees your sin and embraces it. Grace sees your sin and hands you over to Christ's healing embrace.

God cannot make us choose to abide with Him. For now, God, tormented, waits upon us through one holocaust after another. satan’s best deception is its general success in concealing its own reality from the human mind. Most people live in such naivete regarding evil. What will it take for us to take evil seriously? satan lashes out on the earth like a madman, setting people against each other all over the globe. it devastates many lives through starvation, alcoholism, substance abuse and pornography. satan is at work in the holocaust of violent, disrespecting aborting of babies; narcissism; materialism; elitism; and the self-absorption we wallow in when we do not ensure our next generation is brought up in a culture with enriching, wholesome values. Failing to label evil evil misleads us about the world in which we live and our necessity for God’s grace, the only real answer and hope for any of us. If you are not living in touch with God, it is easy to blame Him or pass judgment on Him. We experience suffering and temptation because mankind chose to follow satan. Lurking in the heart of man, evil will erupt when it is permitted to act unimpeded.

Entrusted with the awesome responsibility of my children’s care, I am concerned about how their generation is being raised, to what they are being exposed, and the examples they have in their lives. Are they being enriched in mind, spirit and character? They all need highly esteemed mentors to guide them along the path to liberty. If we don’t stand for something, we will fall for anything. “The humblest citizen of all the land, when clad in the armor of a righteous cause, is stronger than all the hosts of Error,” - William Jennings Bryan. Hopefully, seeking our own pleasure is not the measure of our lives. We are called to be intolerant in love. Why not live as Philippians 4:8 instructs us to: Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. God is reaching out to rescue us … God made nature to sing His praises, to declare His glory and to love Him. He made humans with the ability to choose. He could have ordered our obedience; instead, he calls for our heart.

You need to read Matthew 25:1-13 13:"So always be ready, because you don't know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come."

The Bishop writes with great style and we all agree with his gracious statements and hope with all our hearts that the Bishop's beautiful prose will be a comfort. I don't know where he gets this idea of a weak God who bows down to human freedom but maybe there is a scriptural reference someone can find to support the Bishop's proclamation of a weak God. Here are a couple of passages that seem to counter the weak God statement: Job 42:02 "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted." Daniel 3:17 "... our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us ... but if not, be it known to you, O King, that we will not serve your gods ..." God is able and he can can not be thwarted by anything, including human freedom. Is the Bishop making these things up by incorporating some kind of extrapolated Deist theology in his syncretistic belief system?

Thank you Honorable Desmond Tutu
for your letter. It holds healing and Truth.
I found comfort and inspiration in reading it.

As for the atheist who posted, my question would be this: How can one be an atheist if God did not exist?
Maybe an atheist is one who needs those who believe in God to reflect Heavenly Father better in the way they live. Just a thought.
Peace of Christ

Many of you who have posted here are the reason this country is doomed.
Why debate people's faith when discussing the acts of a mad man?
Why make fun or deride another's faith?
Do you have nothing better to do than insult?
Why are you hurting people when people are already hurt?
"Racial discrimination"?
This shooter guy was crazy.
There are crazy people in the world.
Why are you guys turning this into a debate about faith? What does it accomplish?

While a religious discussion might facilitate the healing process for some, it does absolutely nothing to address the actual issue. Such a discussion, by definition, is metaphysical rather than concrete. Physiological questions aside, this event is about how certain individual and social mechanisms lead to alienation.

VT's tragedy might have something to do with racism. Racial discrimination is very serious in US and Canada. Here is my story as an example: am a Chinese immigrant residing in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. My human rights case started with an academic dispute between a professor David Waterhouse of the University of Toronto U of T and me about whether the concept of beauty is a European concept, and developed into a brutal political/racial persecution on me organized by the Canadian and US Governments. This persecution was purposed to cover up the fraud committed by Waterhouse in his retaliation against me for loss of his argument on the concept of beauty. It involved a conspiracy of the Ontario Human Rights Commission the OHRC, the U of T and a professor, James Cahill of the University of California at Berkeley UC to set me up for criminal prosecution on a fabricated crime plotted by an entrapment using the confidentiality rule of the Commission. The Canadian criminal court criminalized me for this bogus crime. And in the meantime, both the Canadian and US criminal systems denied my most fundamental legal right to redress true crimes against me committed by agents of the both governments, such as perjuries committed by the OHRC officer Alan Strojin at my criminal trial, Cahills perjuries against my civil rights case against him in US, a court supervisor of Californias forgery of court document, etc., despite these crimes are all proven on written documents. The US government even refuses to investigate public death threat on Internet by agent of its government which threatened that the government would make me disappear. Meanwhile the civil courts both in California, USA, and in Canada are actively engaging themselves in the oppression of my litigation against the perpetrators of my human rights case. This engagement in US even involves the California Court of Appeal judges conspiracy with the defendants of my civil rights case to fraud California laws to deceive me and on that basis to dismiss my case. California Superior Court supervisor went as far as to commit criminal fraud to forge court document to set me up for the defendant of my case to prosecute me as vexatious litigant for purpose to bar me from access to court, etc. In Canada, I have already been unlawfully barred from access to court by court order, and all my due process rights were literally denied by courts, in that I was not even allowed to oppose the defendants of my civil rights cases - to argue with them in anyway the law provides. With compelled exclusion of my participation in my cases, the court decided on my cases one-sidedly with the Defendants to dismiss all my cases. I have to publish my story on the Internet since virtually all Canadian and U.S. main stream media declined to publish my story, and those so-called human rights groups such as the Human Rights Watch, etc. ignored my request for investigation. Further more, the cover ups for Canada and US have expanded to the United Nations so that my access to international human rights community has also been blocked by Canada and US. As the Office of High Commissioner for Human Rights of UN, headed by Louise Arbour, a former judge of Supreme Court of Canada, seized all the complaints I sent to UNs human rights bodies, in violation of the UNs human rights complaint procedures. It is a best illustration of hypocrisy of the Western democracy and freedom.

Wanxia Liao

GOD doesn't care. GOD doesn't love. GOD doesn't protect. GOD doesn't partake in the affairs of man.
If you believe otherwise, you need to have your mind examined as it is obviously very ILL.

>foolofwisdom:
>God does exist. I dont have enough faith to believe that we were made manifest from a slime-blob millions of years ago. If we are here by mere chance, then what are we here for? Are lives then exist without purpose. What happened is a great tragedy, and is proof that we are in a real world, and in the real world evil does exist. We are all capable of sin, and if we were honest, everyone has the capacity to commit murder, if placed in the wrong situation. Just because we mere humans with our FINITE wisdom do not have an answer to why this happened, does not mean that an answer or reason does not exist. The first step towards wisdom is to fully understand that we do not have answers for everything.

The first step towards wisdom is to understand that we humans are not the center of the universe. If we get rid of our ridiculous anthropocentrism we will realize that we do not have answers for everything because there is no need for everything to have an answer.
Many things happen for no "human" reason at all. Reason is a human invention that does not apply to everything outside us. What are we here for? For nothing, there is no reason for our existence. We are here as a consequence of millions of year of evolution that created us (among millions and millions of other species). And, yes, our lifes have no ultimate purpose so you better enjoy it while you are still alive.

BGone,

I sorry for the loss of your brother. I only hope he died peacefully in his bed.

I am not marginalizing your brother's life and death in pausing to reflect on the shock, loss and grief of the families of the victims of Virginia Tech's senseless killings and not to argue about where is God or is there a God in all of this.

How your brother lived and will be remembered by family and friends is more important than what will happen in the afterlife or not at all.

My condolences to you and your family on your brother's death.

JON
You're dodging the question. How can I identify God? How can I know that the being in the ball of fire that Moses made the deal with is God?

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul says that Moses sold his soul for the wealth of earth. Says he is the BIGGEST SHOT [most important person] that ever lived, headminister of all three great faiths. Do I have the right to know if that being was God? Or, is faith in the Bible all you got? The Bible is NOT God. It's a book.

Now what is your faith in? Is that God or the book that says Moses spoke to God?

Now what is your faith in? Is that God or Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, the pope, men who claim to speak to God? If you can identify God for me then I can take their data, what they saw and heard etc and decide if they are lying.

What!!! Respectable ministers lie? Horrors!!!!

Was that God Mr Bush consulted before attacking Iraq, the "higher power?" Please give me the criteria to say which supernatural being that was. How can I identify God, verify any visions I may have?

RMH, it's not where I get faith but where I DON'T get faith. I DON'T faith people who dress and act like peacocks and claim to be righteous. Faith from them is faith IN them and NOT faith in God.

I don't get faith from sacred scriptures because I KNOW they are all the work of men,, who dressed and acted like peacocks, as a way of life, to get their daily bread.

I don't get faith so that I can be saved, from an imaginary being, Devil that operates an imaginary place, hell. I understand what hoax buster is saying, that [those] imaginary beings are the work of, you guessed it, men who dress and act like peacocks and use those beings to terrorize children, who grow up and continue to be terrorized, by threats of hell, done for economic reasons and nothing more.

God has nothing to do with men who dress and act like peacocks, threaten with imaginary beings and places, try to terrorize me and then demand that I render to their version of God by giving them my hard earned money. That's where I DON'T get faith in God.

Do you have a different source of faith?

Blessings and praises to the Lord our God from whom all good things flow and peace and blessings to all if you. Thank you all for your candor and perspectives. The wonderful thing about free will is that in times of trial it gets put to good use. The truth, however, is that despite what everyone says, most of us has set minds and isn’t looking to learn from each other or consider truthful perspectives. That is unfortunate. The truth gets lost in platitudes and emotion and we still walk away frustrated and empty. My prayer is that we use our time and voice for the greater good and that we treat each other with loving-kindness. Let's be good to each other. This isn't always easy to do (especially for me). These times of turmoil just make it worse (don't they?) Let's not turn on each other but rather give thanks for our lives and let the peace of God which passes all understanding keep our hearts and minds because peace of mind, comfort and assurance are critical gifts to have in these uncertain times. I pray that the sweet touch of God's Holy Spirit gently embrace us in this dark hour of vengeance, wrath, deceit, confusion, and strife. Seek truth, for the truth will set you free.

Weeping may endure for a night but joy indeed does come in the morning. That's my prayer for us all - but I pray this especially for my brothers and sisters who were gravely affected by the Virginia Tech tragedy. God is real and He calls us to be our brother's keeper, to serve each other and to generously provide for each other's needs. Let's model the nature and gentle example of Jesus who used his free will to love those who didn't love or understand him and who used his strength to courageously confront and battle hypocrisy and evil almost daily. During his time on earth he was a man's man - strong, fearless, compassionate, focused and holy. He believed in and understood mankind then (just as He does now). He also modeled quiet sacrifice, friendly devotion, commitment to Truth and single-minded commitment to purpose. In the end He freely laid down His life as a loving sacrifice to bridge the gap between eternity and human reality and his friends and loved ones mourned his tragic death too. I'm so thankful that His victory over death through the resurrection gives us hope to overcome and rise from the ashes of our lives now and forever. The promise of eternity gives hope to the insanity of humanity.

Thank you Jesus!

Life is short. During this time of contemplation, analysis and debate let's not forget to check on each other all while modeling and embracing with newfound commitment Christ's example of sacrificial service and love.

I've come to know with all certainty that Jesus Christ is indeed the Truth and the Truth WILL set you free. Like me, you've got to discover it for yourself. The proof is our there. It exists; I've used my logic, intelligence, education, realism and faith to discover and embrace the greatest and sweetest truth I'll ever learn.

All of my degrees couldn't give me the edge that Jesus has. I don't hold a secret. Multitudes have discovered it through the generations and the truth is as fresh today as when God first breathed life into His Holy Word. I pray that the scales fall from all eyes in the appointed hour. I look forward to the day when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Saints of God - stay in intercession. The world needs it. We need it. God bless you all!

Amen!!!

Dear Pops,

There is no God?

There is no such thing as atheism. Very few of us are truly that stupid...maybe even you son.

BGONE,

Where do you get the foundations of your faith?

Long ago I realized that if I believed one part of the Bible, I must either believe it all or deny it all. Since that time, I have grown closer to God and learned much from spending time not only in His word, the Bible, but also in prayerful communion. If you get a chance to read Hebrews 11 it is very powerful. Each of the people listed were considered "faithful" but only because of their blind faith.

CHERI, thank you for the kind words. I don't believe in Devil, but I do believe in God. You seem to have that reversed, both for me and you.

God doesn't need people's money, can create it [U.S. government?]. Devil is an imaginary demon used to gain the wealth of earth by people with threats of being turned over to him for failing to "render to God" [actually render to God's representatives]. That's the original terrorism, about 5,000 years old and invented by Pharaoh, son of god become like-unto God. I don't terrorize as easy as some I guess. Pharaoh don't scare me in the least.

If angels can't be shot then why do they have shields? I understand angels being armed but why shields? Have they modernized, now toat guns instead of swords and spears? If the Bible said "the firstborn son of the Egyptian" had been shot instead of whacked then we could expect God was behind it? "Your God" doesn't seem to be very up to date, kind of like your Devil.

When if ever you stop believing in Devil your life will improve by bunches. Faith in God can then bubble to the top and not be a dodge, in third or fourth place behind faith in mininsters, the Bible and the Devil. Gotta get past a lot of faith to get to God for the three great faiths.

Jon,

Good point about the air, but we know what molecules it's made up of. What molecules make up God?

BGONE:

Your statement is not worth commenting on. GOD is a spirit just as we are. I don't have to prove GOD. GOD can prove himself all by HIMSELF. Can you see the air that you breath? No!! Think about that question for a minute.

I hope peace can find it's way back into the hearts of the suffering families from this horrible tragedy. I will pray for them.

Rom. 8:18 - the sufferings of the present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. We thus have hope that any sufferings we or others endure, no matter how difficult, will pale in comparison to the life of eternal bliss that awaits us.

Russell,

Where, how and when life began continues to be a mystery! The origins of singularity are still largely unexplainable? David makes a good point. Although your comment was funny the origins of our universe is still unexplainable.

BGONE -- My prayers go out to you and your family during this difficult time of lose. One question, earlier in this dialog you acknowledge that Satan does exist. How is it that you are able to believe in a spirit of evil, but unable to believe ina spirit of good. My prayer for you is that before you reach the point of receiving your "new body", that you will have received Christ and that the new body will live in a place of eternal good and not eternal evil. God Bless you and your family.

David:

yea........I don't know where you think you came from, but I am a result of my parents having sex. Same can be said for me and my wife. Our kids came from us having sex. Gotta love Biology!

To those who believe that God does not exist, I would ask them this question: How did your life come to be, and remain alive to this day? Whatever it is that performed that miracle is what God is. I am sure that you cannot explain what makes your heart beat, what chemicals in your blood keep your cells alive, what forces make gravity work to keep you on the ground, what physics allow your eyes to see and where the energy originated to even cause the sun to provide us light. The answer is God; whatever, whoever, and wherever that may be. Our living consists of complex electrical and physical interactions with the universe. Our relationship with the universe is what religion teaches us. That's all I can make of it. Unless someone can explain to me the origins of what exists in our universe, I'm gonna believe in God.

"Deeply saddened by news of the shooting at Virginia Tech, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI has asked me to convey the assurance of his heartfelt prayers for the victims, their families and for the entire school community. In the aftermath of this senseless tragedy he asks God our Father to console all those who mourn and to grant them that spiritual strength which triumphs over violence by the power of forgiveness, hope and reconciling love."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone

JON:

The fellow who wrote what you said ending up at the "great judgment seat" of God was looling at a picture of that seat, throne of God. If not then where did the idea come from?

That picture, or one like it can be seen at http://www.hoax-buster.org first page and other places. It also has a picture of "son of God" seated at the right hand of "ball of fire God" [the God Moses made the deal with] along with a representation [artist's conception] of "ghost God." Seated at the right of "son of God" are his 12 disciples.

CHALLENGE: Identify God for me so that I can verify that the visions I have are of God and not some other creature. What are the particulars of God, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, must be a duck sort of things that I can use to say any vision or other sensual contact with beings, supernatural or otherwise is actually God.

The nonsense you are spouting is used by the ministry to J-Hawk [threaten with hell and then pass the plate for free money] the road between this life and the next. That idea comes from Pharaoh, the first ever "son of God." No one has ever spoken to God, seen God or anything in the neighborhood because "God Can't Be Identified" unless God is an office held by a man. Pharaoh invented the office of God and the ministry imitates Pharaoh.

All Pharaohs were Christs. Jesus Christ was a woman who wanted to be Pharaoh but couldn't because God is MALE.

Jacob,

If you studied up a little more on other religions, you'd know where those names came from. They are in religious texts.

Sometimes I wish I understood you better. It makes me sad to read your posts sometimes. One too many rides on the coaster?

Jacob,

Do you have something that shows the mother's names of Noah and Abraham to be something else? If so, tell us your source and the names.

I suspect that God and Devil are two sides of the same being. Crazy belief, I know but I wonder sometimes. The horror of the VA Tech massacre and the rape and murder of children that goes on, I mean free will, okay, but I wonder how things like this happen and people can still maintain their faith. Where is God? I believe in a metaphysical existence beyond this one but there are times when I wonder about these things. I think Bishop Tutu's words were meant for comfort. I don't doubt his sincerity.

Jim,

First of all, your body never existed until a man and woman conceived. Your spirit comes from GOD. Studying the bible would help answer alot of your questions. GOD is so positive in HIS own bible and wants you to have a eternal life and not eternal death that HE says, "Absent from the body is to present with the LORD" Let's use a car analogy. If you take the engine and computer out of a car what do you have left. Just a body or shell which will not move. So, if you are not aware you have a spirit. You will when you take your last breath. People will see your temporal body with no movement or life. (death) GOD even tells you that once you take your last breath, then you will be before of the judgement seat of GOD. I don't judge you because GOD ALONE will judge you for your attitude and actions. My prayer and hope is that you have a relationship with the true and living GOD before your last breath. Only GOD can kill your Spirit since he created you and gave you destiny, purpose and vision for your life. Let's keep in mind. Heaven is living with GOD for eternity and Hell is seperation from GOD for eternity. This is your choice of which one you desire. YOu will find out the truth either on this earth or when you die. As far as the young men and women that were killed, it was one of my coworker's daughters. Guess what? She called me because GOD has proven HIMSELF in me through various stages of her life. I find it sad that many people cannot or will not worship a GREAT GOD. Read JOB in the bible one day and see in Chapter one that Satan even had to ask permission from GOD to mess with one of HIS people. GOD's only direction to SATAN was not to kill JOB. SATAN's assignment is to steal, kill and destroy. HIS job is to get you to not believe in GOD.

I truly believe that God exists! There is a devil here on earth that can't wait to enhale all of the people like this shooter! We, as God's servants, need to stop the hate and violence and start living better lives. God Bless you all and PLEASE PRAY FOR PEACE!! If we all try harder to help our neighbors, we can change our world for the better. Life is a gift from God and we must start living that way. We can change the world if we CARE!!!! I DO!!! Do You!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would you pray for the dead?

Desmond,
Again it is an honor to comment on your forum. Omnipotent is a an infinite word and humanity tries to associate meaning. Even an athiest cannot deny someone holds the reigns on this horse. If you seek peace, why do you wage war? Intelligent design or Dawkins, a belief system is what ones free will will decide.
The concept of heaven and hell are ancient, like Dante's Divine Comedy, classic literature. Omnipotent, is a word Alighieri did not use to describe his full vision. The book reads as if ascending a ladder, from the bottom to the top rung.
There is design, there is choice, is it heaven or is it hell...? Each soul creates it and will ultimately answer for it.

J: "...since the probability of gods existing, specially the most popular varieties thereof, is ridiculously low."

Are you a probability expert? If you think the probability that God exists is ridiculously low, you should calculate the probability that the Big Bang and Evolution complete explain all of the development of the universe apart from God. The probablity of that is beyond ridiculous. Ask any real stats expert and I think you'll find that your probability argument isn't a good one.

God does exist. I dont have enough faith to believe that we were made manifest from a slime-blob millions of years ago. If we are here by mere chance, then what are we here for? Are lives then exist without purpose. What happened is a great tragedy, and is proof that we are in a real world, and in the real world evil does exist. We are all capable of sin, and if we were honest, everyone has the capacity to commit murder, if placed in the wrong situation. Just because we mere humans with our FINITE wisdom do not have an answer to why this happened, does not mean that an answer or reason does not exist. The first step towards wisdom is to fully understand that we do not have answers for everything. May God be with the families of those 32 innocent victims, and with the family of the young man who held the gun.

SPEED123,

So I assume you are blaming God for your/our miseries? It is unfortunate that Father Schillebeeckx is not a member of the On-Faith Panel.

Life is short. 33 people got their short lives shortened even more yesterday. What does one say to the families, loved ones left behind? They're not dead, only gone on to the next world.

Funerals are for the living, do nothing for the dead. Councling in situations like this is help them cope with death. Death is natural and normal. No big hurry like yesterday but it's coming nevertheless.

The death of those around us remind us of our own mortality. That should not be such a dramatic thing. But it is earth sahttering because we have lost our natural instincts that tell us death is not the end, only a beginning of a new life, renewal.

I had a brother die this morning. He's not dead but gone on to the next life. I'll see him there soon. His old body broke, needed a new one and now he has it. I'm happy for him and look forward to getting a new one myself.

Gods, heaven, hell, and the religious operators threatening with the supernatural have the world in a mental state. Those things are brand new in cosmic time. Humans have dealt with death successfully for tens of thousands of years. The more we are deluged with nonsense the more difficult it becomes to cope with all natural, normal process of life death being but one.

We are all dying at all times. 33 people finished the process yesterday and one more, my brother this morning. It's only a big deal to those who don't understand what happened.

Give it up Concerned!

Trying to paint all religions with the "predestination" brush does not work.

You are ignorant and sensational and seem to be taking your cues from the state of American media.

As per the contemporary Christian theologian, Father Edward Schillebeeckx, (from his book, Church, the History of God,Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

"Christians must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history" . "Nothing is determined in advance: in
nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human activity there is possibility of free choices. Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."
And with this profound observation, Schillebeeckx rendered all prophets, i.e. Isaiah, Jesus, Mohammed, Smith et al, and prophecies moot!!!!!

It also unfortunately explains the tragedies of incidents like the massacre at VT and the daily suicide bombings in Iraq i.e. WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS.

Amazing, though not surprising, I suppose, that some people participating here seem to think this is about whether or not God exists.

"...what about the free will of the 32 students who were massacred and what about the free will of their dessimated friends and family members?" asked 'Anonymous.'

I don't pretend to answer this question, (nor, I'd point out, did Bishop Tutu), but I don't "fall back" on "'God's mysterious ways' explanation," either.

Life, however, is certainly essentially Mystery. Surely even - and perhaps especially! - an atheist must concede that this is so.

I am not a Christian (certainly not in the traditional sense according to self-professed Christians I know - in terms of the Nicine Creed, literal biblical, scriptural infallibility, et al) though I wrote of the "final Gift" of "Salavation," terms I used in response to Bishop Tutu because my conception of God absolutley encompasses these concepts; God is infinite!

Obviously, I do believe in God, deeply so, for reasons of personal experience that have little or nothing to do with whether or not my prayers have been or are "answered" (though I often feel that they are).

Prayer is not magical incantation to avoid harm or obtain favor(s), whatever traditional views may teach.

For many of us, God, the fact and Presence of God - and prayer to God - is a source of comfort, especially in the face of human evil.
How sad that some are so offended by this idea that they have to use a forum like this to rhetorically deny the existence of this source.

Archbishop Tutu,

I don't believe the shooter yesterday had any effective free will, because of his psychological state of mind, which arose spontaneously from causes and conditions over which he had no control and which he did not desire.

I'm taking the liberty of posting here my response to Donna Freitas:

Donna Freitas,

You wrote: "I do not believe that any faith tradition can adequately 'explain' tragedies such as the massacre at Virginia Tech yesterday."

Without trying to claim superiority for my favorite belief-system, I believe that Buddhism can explain what happened yesterday in Virginia.

Every event is, to use a Buddhist stock phrase, "a product of causes and conditions". The preeminent cause here would seem to be the psychological state of mind of the shooter. That state of mind was also a product of causes and conditions.

Trying to find a religious explanation of the "meaning" of the shootings can't compare with a simple tracing of the causes and conditions of the event and leaving it at that.

Your feelings and thoughts about yesterday are very Buddhist, though you clothe them in Christian language, compassion being of their essence.

Best wishes.

Jon,

Assuming I do have a spirit, how do I know it will do anything after I die? I'm not aware that my spirit was around before I had a body. Why should it continue after my body is gone?

If my spirit is eternal, that mean it never stops existing, right? Where was it before my body existed? Why don't I remember that? If I don't remember that, will I remember being in my body if my spirit keeps existing after my body dies?

The point is this is all a bunch of fantasy. Why not enjoy what is real? Of course, when you spend all of your time fantasizing about spirits and attributes of deities and miracles, you may have trouble identifying what is real, much less enjoying it.

Sorry, Bishop, you lost me when you said, "Our God who is omnipotent is also weak in that God has imposed limitations on God’s omnipotence to give us the space to have a real autonomy."

A pistol in the hand of a madman is "real autonomy?"

Scott,

Why do you want to live eternally?

Jim,

First of all, GOD would never tell anyone to kill another person. Now, Satan and his demons (angels who made the decision to rebel against GOD) just like their daddy (Satan) would. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory. We are born with sin (study Adam and Eve)and GOD gives us free will to choose HIM or not. It is not about religion but relationship. GOD intends for us to have a relationship with HIM. You seem to forget or don't know that you are a spirit housed in a body. Once your spirit leaves your body then you will pass from time into Eternity. One thing is for sure, we will all stand before GOD for our beliefs and actions. So, either you will believe there is a GOD or not. That is your choice. GOD already knows we are not perfect.

Good point. If I didn't believe in a God of great love and deep compassion and great mercy, I wouldn't want to live eternally, either.

McBible,

Why would one want to live eternally? What is wrong with living in the world and then ceasing to exist?

Only in a world where faith is difficult can faith exist. I don't have faith in two plus two equals four or in the noon day sun. Those are beyond question. But scripture describes God as a hidden God. You have to make an effort of faith to find him. There are clues you can follow. And if that weren't so, if there were something more or less than clues, it's difficult for me to understand how we could really be free to make a choice about Him. If we had absolute proof instead of clues, then you could no more deny God than you could deny the sun. If we had no evidence at all, you could never get there. God gives us just enough evidence so that those who want him can have him. The Bible says, "Seek and you shall find." Millions around the world have sought God and found him and that relationship has made a real difference in our lives. God loves all of us, whether you believe in him or not. I genuinely pray that all those who do not believe would ernestly reconsider their position. Your eternal life depends upon it.

Weiping,

I would say it is horribly, devastatingly sad.

The gunman was very disturbed and alienated. No one helped him. He did not seek help. He caused destruction and misery and suffering. It is really just a matter of coincidence that the particular victims were in his way. That is frightening and makes me feel helpless, but it is the truth.

The world will continue. The lives of 32 innocent people have been ended. That is horrible and difficult to understand because it happened so suddenly. The lives of their families and friends have been forever changed. That is extremely sad. But the same thing has happened to innocent people and their families and friends in countless other places around the world today, yesterday and throughout time. It will happen again tomorrow and the day after and again. The world has continued and will continue.

That is reality. That is life. You don't need to pretend there is a god to explain it.

Hi JIM, I'm a 42 year old foreigner who had been an athiest for his first 39 years. I understand that Desmond Tutu said these as if he was standing in front the the victim familys.

Jim, what would you say if you happen to standby these families? As one previous posting, we humankind did create ourself. By his love towards his creatures, our Creator shows his mercy.

When a tragedy strikes such as the V.Tech shootings, people begin to throw their hands in the air and wonder why “A God” would allow this to happen. We always blame “A God” for our actions.

The God I serve allows things to happen because he gave us the gift of free will. We have the ability to choose to follow God and his teachings or not. If he hadn’t given us the gift of free will, then we would all be the same cookie cutter human beings living lives of repetition with no opportunities to explore life and make our own decisions.

As with any gift, it can be used in a good or bad way. We know whom the ruler of this world is now. We’ve all read the bible and unless you’re completely in denial, we see the prophecies in the bible being fulfilled. This world, this Government, the politicians many of them do not walk in the ways of our GOD. He does not lead their steps and their decisions, other wise our children would be able to pray in school. It wouldn’t be legal to kill babies who have no voice living in their mother’s womb. Marriage would still be meant for Man and Woman as GOD and nature intended it to be. The very mention of “GOD” would not be surrounded with controversy and issues of offending others. The ruler of this earth has made it difficult for most to believe and live our public lives as followers of Jesus Christ. We don’t want to offend others in our workplace because of fear of harassment if we speak of our GOD. Yet, as soon as a tragedy strikes such as the V.Tech Shootings, 9-11 or Columbine we’re suddenly given the “o.k.” for prayer to be shown on public television with this world’s leaders participating. We’re trained to run to “A GOD” in times of trouble and confusion and ask him why?

Let us all stop and remember that the troubled soul who walked into that school and took the lives of 32 individuals also had free will. He choose, with his free will to take the lives of 32 people, and to so their journey on this earth ended. And because of his free will, families are left with the pain, hurt and loss that will last a lifetime.

Did God allow this to happen? Yes, the same as he allowed you another day on this earth and allowed you to decide what you would wear today or who you would marry. God’s gift of free will allows us to experience life fully, lead the types of lives we live and to decide if we will follow HIM or the ruler of this world.

This event is a symptom of the greater maliase that exists in society. Young men are lost and disconnected to everything that gives meaning - faith, family, community and these things have been replaced by consumerism, materialism, focus on the self, greed and lack of purpose aside from grades and money.

Gun control will not stop this, nor will perscription drugs.

Welcome to our Brave New World - dont worry though - science and cold reason will save us....take another hit of Ritilin/Prozac and dont look at the real underlying issues.

KEN, it's not the frequency but the chanel, "700 Culb" where Doctor Robertson has the hot line straight to God. Just one little problem.

Is it God? http://www.hoax-buster.org has a better interpretation of sacred scriptures. It makes more sense in more ways than one that the God with which they converse is actually the biggest devil of them all, Lucifer. Once one realizes religion is devil worship it all makes sense.