Nobel Peace Prize winner and human rights advocate
Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Mpilo Tutu was awarded the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize for his contribution to the cause of racial justice in South Africa. He served as the first black African archbishop of Cape Town from 1986 to 1996. Prior to this role as spiritual leader of the Anglican Church in South Africa, Tutu served as General Secretary of the South African Council of Churches from 1978 to 1985. It was in this position that he became an international voice for the anti-apartheid movement and received the Nobel Prize. In 1995, South African President Nelson Mandela appointed Archbishop Tutu Chair of South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the body set up to investigate human rights violations under that country’s apartheid governments from 1960 to 1994. Tutu retired from in 1996 and was given the honorary title of Archbishop Emeritus. Since then, Archbishop Tutu served as a visiting professor and scholar at the Candler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta, the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Massachusetts and the University of North Florida in Jacksonville. He has received numerous awards and has authored two books, No Future Without Forgiveness and God has a Dream. Tutu continues to write, lecture, and travel the world as an advocate of human rights and social justice. He is currently involved with a number of non-profit organizations working for peace and equality, meeting the needs of disadvantaged children and fighting HIV/AIDS.
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Desmond Tutu
Nobel Peace Prize winner and human rights advocate
Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Mpilo Tutu was awarded the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize for his contribution to the cause of racial justice in South Africa. He served as the first black African archbishop of Cape Town from 1986 to 1996. Prior to this role as spiritual leader of the Anglican Church in South Africa, Tutu served as General Secretary of the South African Council of Churches from 1978 to 1985.
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Desmond you are an inspiration to me i am doing a reasearch about you and is learning far so much about you i hope to meet you someday i live in omaha nebraska and i go to benson high if you ever think about visiting thats were i be i have fun and caring day bye.
I think that yes, God has let people die - but he can't save everyone can he? He saves some people because he can - but if he saved everyone from dying then we'd all be stuck with so many people that we can't move. Dying happens - you just have to accept that. Yes he saved Desmund Tutu and yes he lets others die - maybe because Desmond writes that book later in his life about God - He decided to save him or Desmond Tutu just got lucky and God was only watching. It's all complicated - there are so many different possibilities you just don't know. Why don't you just trust God and the doctors and hope for the best!
Hi E. I agree with the Catholic Church's position that what happens after death is a mystery. It is inappropriate for men to pass judgment on the fate of others. To do so would be an example of building another tower of Babel. God is the sole judge and determinant of the fate of men.
So, unlike some of the Protestant groups, I do not believe in a baptismal "requirement" to enter heaven.
Mike, you say: “God does not kill people who have cancer, and God does not kill people in floods. The world is imperfect -- fortunately, if Christians, like the Archbishop, are correct, we will see a better, eternal world after this one.”
Tell, me Mike, what do you think happens to good, ethical religious non-Christians after they die? For instance, people whose parents raised them in another faith or people who lived in a remote region that Christian missionaries never got to.
I’m truly interested in hearing your thoughts on this and how you arrived at your conclusions.
I’ll check back here later today and tomorrow, in hopes that you respond to my message.
Reality Check, you say, "Seems like a deliberate obfuscation effort to me, but I'll let you decide."
Thanks for the tip on how to find Harris's recent essay. How did you know to find it there?
I agree - the Forum managers did a great job of trying to hide his comments - breaking with their convention on listing new essays on the main page. I suspect it was done in an effort keep Harris's remarks from stealing attention from the other esteemed, but less popular panelists.
S. Heriger wrote:
"I realize that what I propose (focusing our collective will) isn't possible. Nonetheless, I feel we absolutely should work on the problem as though we can solve it."
I certainly agree that we should work on the problem. Where I suspect we differ is on *how* to work on the problem. I don't expect any magical help, and I've never seen any sign of it aiding anyone's efforts - no one yet has solved it.
If your plan includes converting more of the world's land to agriculture, that isn't a plan that I could support. We're destroying animal habitat at a rate that sends many species spiraling toward extinction every year. Maybe a planet full of well-fed humans and no other species apart from maybe some food animals is appealing to you, but it's not a world I'd want to live in. We're also destroying the rainforest that has a major impact on our climate and the oxygen we breathe. And whatever increase in agricultural output we manage to achieve will be worthless in a short time, as the world's population doubles and redoubles in ever shorter periods of time.
In short, if birth control isn't at least *part* of the solution, then there is no solution.
Everyone loves to point to Mother Teresa and all of the wonderful work she did and the sacrifices she made. But I just see someone pushing the Catholic faith, which prohibits birth control, in a region where to do so really ought to be criminal.
I'm sorry that my final sentence seemed condescending to you, but you have no idea how frustrating it is for a realist to be confronted with this wide-eyed piety that believes that God will take care of everything. He hasn't for all these centuries, and I see no sign that he's changing his ways now. There are people who say "God will provide" dying of hunger every day.
I thank the Archbishop for his story. I had the privilege of seeing him in person when he came to my university a few years ago.
I recently completed a course of chemotherapy for cancer. The cancer was in the most advanced stage, and I frequently thought about death. Like the Archbishop, I had a similar encounter with God. This encounter was beyond words.
A few months ago sat with Jesuit Cardinal Avery Dulles. Our conversation was wide ranging, and he said something obvious yet profound that many of the those posting comments should consider: that God created a world that is not perfect.
The physical laws that cause cancer are the same laws that allowed human beings to evolve. The physical laws that allow rainfall to, in part, provide food to animals and people are the same laws that cause floods.
God does not kill people who have cancer, and God does not kill people in floods. The world is imperfect -- fortunately, if Christians, like the Archbishop, are correct, we will see a better, eternal world after this one.
Harris has posted his essay on the current question titled "Consciousness Without Faith". It was posted yesterday. There are quite a few NoGodders over there posting.
Don't look under "All Panelist Responses" It's not there. Go to "All On Faith Panelists" and look up Sam Harris. Hope you enjoy.
Seems like a deliberate obfuscation effort to me, but I'll let you decide..
"I was simply expressing my point of view (the point of these forums), not suggesting everyone run out and covert."
I understand that and am glad you're here expressing your point of view. And when you say, "When we begin to do God's will, He always steps in and becomes involved" it sounds more like an assertion than a point of view -- i.e. – telling us what God ALWAYS does. I don’t understand how you or anyone would know that.
I don't want to have an argument and I certainly don't mean to insult you, but I in the spirit of open dialogue, I do want to tell you how it came across to me.
It’s unfortunate that these conversations invariably dwindle to a bitter squabble between the haves and have-nots.
On the one side we have those who have blind faith and the opposing camp consists of those with blind lack of faith. While the battle continues, this farce of a civilization we’ve achieved sinks deeper and deeper into its hypocritical quagmire. Our pretence of intelligence is increasingly confronted with the reality of our inability to heal the festering wounds and ills of humanity.
We humans have tragically lost the cord that tethers us to the fundamentals of life. It is categorically impossible for our feeble minds to accept the mystery and get on with the task at hand, to live a noble life and work to bring light into this world.
I you approach life with gratitude, as Desmond Tutu, it's easier to live a life of fullfillment (from which others will benefit). If you approach it with a "what's in it for me?"-attitude chances are you'll never be able to achieve much to help yourself or others. Seems to me that's the testimony of bishop Tutu.
To reflect on the human course, and human behavior; it may become evident it is as S. HERIGER describes,--the "collective WILL"--that matters; that identifies the nature of God's help; and holds the key to our happiness.
By conscious nature each person wants the other to 'think as he does'. This leads to conformity; evident in local community, cultural or occupational styles;--to coercion by religions, or political 'isms'. The reason for this tendency to conform could be 'there really is ONE CONSCIOUSNESS of humanity'! We hold the same basic physical and emotional needs;--so should be of one overall mind.
The culprit interfering with this truth seems individual separation in the spheres of time, place and person. A body automatically forms an environmental,--or physical mind. An individual mind is relative to era and experiences; geographic location; and physiology. No two people are exactly equal in these areas;--so, no two physical minds are the same! Our course suggests the TRUE mind remains buried under millions of different realities;--or individual worlds formed by local environmental conditions.
When we look at these 'outside-in';--or physical realities; we see they all---like the world they copy---offer only temporary gain, or pleasure; eventually fall;--for the individual, or a nation.
Our American ancestors had no blueprint;--but placed their TRUST in God. Believed in temporary sacrifice; for everlasting happiness. That we became prolific should not be an enigma. The American difference was in allowing energy to flow---like in all living things---from the inside-out! We focus on the democratic format, but may overlook its success was relative to a "collective WILL" expressed in IDEALS as equality, truth, peace, freedom, compassion, personal worth, life and justice. These conscious energies composed the 'soul' of America; were the source of our strength; surmounted all physical obstacles--beginning with victory over a far more knowledgable and powerful British Empire.
Of interest is when conformity was to this "collective will";--to personal character maturation through prayer to a God of love;--when vision came from a common place deep within personal thought;---a compatible DIVERSITY emerged;--that evoked an ascent like no other period in human existence!
It may be no accident our most astounding area of technological progress surrounds communication. "To share thought" is our means of growth. Consciousness is the living, growing thing in our midst. "To come together in thought" seems an instinctive direction.
All human suffering could be relative to conscious separation from each other;---and God!
I realize that what I propose (focusing our collective will) isn't possible. Nonetheless, I feel we absolutely should work on the problem as though we can solve it. I'd continue the discussion, but I don't see how it would be constructive after reading your last sentence, which stooped to condescension. Best of luck of your life's journey.
E. Favorite,
If you believe it's all about hard work, drive and luck meeting opportunity, and you get out there and work for it, then I applaud you. I just like to see people get involved with the problem in spite of the overwhelming odds against them. I certainly don't expect everyone to approach it from a faith-based perspective as I do, and I respect anyone's choice to approach it any way they choose. I was simply expressing my point of view (the point of these forums), not suggesting everyone run out and covert.
"I know from experience that when you begin to tackle a seemingly insurmountable problem such as human suffering with all your mind, body and soul, you suddenly discover that help starts arriving from the most unexpected sources."
I've noticed that too, but unlike you, I don't assume that it's because "When we begin to do God's will, He always steps in and becomes involved."
I've thought it was from a combination of drive and luck and people finally noticing my cause because I'm getting the word out about it. I've also noticed sometimes even incredible determination doesn't get me what I want. Still, even in a failed effort, there's often a valuable, unexpected lesson to be learned.
You also say, “If you don't believe in God, then it's completely illogical to blame Him….”
I don’t think non-believers are blaming God; but they might be blaming some PEOPLE who say they believe in God, but whose faith doesn’t translate into compassion or good works for humanity.
S. Heriger,
We will have to agree to disagree on the protein issue. I realize that you wern't talking about a redistribution - such a thing isn't possible. That was a hypothetical.
I wasn't disagreeing about the lack of a collective will; rather, I was trying to point out that it will always be lacking. You say you've lowered your standard of living by 75%, but you typed your reply on a computer. That's not low enough. I've been to Africa and India - I've seen just how low a living standard can go.
Americans are quite addicted to their (I agree) obscenely greedy lifestyle. Do you realize what proportion of the world's population is living in abject poverty? To raise all those people to even a minimal standard - a roof over their heads and 3 squares a day (including adequate protein, assuming that that's possible) would mean a *drastic* reduction in the American (and European) standard - not just giving up iPods. You'll never make it happen voluntarily. Not on your own, not with the help of your imaginary friend.
I respectively disagree with you on the protein issue. I did my homework before I made that statement. It's a concern that has to be addressed in a solution, but it's also a fixable one. I wasn't suggesting we simply redistribute what we currently have, but work collectively to create a functional solution to solve the problems.
Also, you say: "To raise the standard of living all over the world to that of America would take the resources of 4 planet Earths."
I never suggested for one minute that we raise the standard of living to match that of America. In fact, I'm appalled by the idea of doing that. I simply stated that we collectively lack the will to do much about the problem, which is absolutely true. In fact, you completely supported my statement about our lack of collective will when you stated: "To raise the standard of living in places such as India and China means lowering the standard (considerably!) in America. Why do you think the rest of the world hates us? Are you willing to give up most of what you have?"
The answer is yes, I will. In fact, I already have. I've downsized my life by nearly 75% over the past few years in terms of consumption of goods, resources and products I don't need, and my "standard of living" has improved drastically. The fact that most Americans, and especially many who call themselves Christians, don't want to do that is ample evidence that we lack the collective will to address problems elsewhere. Solving the problem requires some sacrifice by the more fortunate. That's us. It's part of the equation. And as I've stated, we lack the collective will to do so. When we immediately begin coming up with reasons why we can't do it, no matter how practical they sound, we're supporting the original statement I made.
Should we "lower" the standard of living here in America? I don't know what you mean by "lower" but I do think we live a horribly overstuffed lifestyle here. We are about 8% of the world's population and we consume about 70% of its natural resourses. This is a travesty. It is gluttony of the highest order. If lowering the standard of living means coming to terms with the self-centeredness of our soul-numbing consumer culture that tells us that we need to own as much crap as possible, cutting down on consumption of resourses, bringing the needs of others to the forefront of our minds, then I'm all for it. I also submit that most Americans aren't, which is exactly what I mean by lacking the collective will.
With all due respect, your argument only proved my point. In spite of the odds, and in spite of the sacrifices, we must do whatever we can. That's why I belive in God. I know from experience that when you begin to tackle a seemingly insurmountable problem such as human suffering with all your mind, body and soul, you suddenly discover that help starts arriving from the most unexpected sources. When we begin to do God's will, He always steps in and becomes involved. That's a confirmation of my faith. As Martin Luther said, "Pray like it all depends on God, then get to work like it all depends on you." You just might be amazed what happens.
Thank you for sharing your story, for looking past the nasayers and for continuing in your faith. God works through people like yourself, although in most cases, through those with much lower offices in life. Regardless, God Bless, and, despite the earlier reponse, continue your focus upon speaking the truth rather than projection.
i think you are a great man but please next time you are on tv try to speak so we can understand what the hell you are talking about!
say it loud say it proud but dont mumble!
It is a pity Peter M didn't grasp what the Archbishop said. I am privileged to have shaken your hand Archbishop when you visited Jamaica. To this day you are one of dwindling number of men of the cloth in whom I have great trust and admiration.
I request Washington Post to publish articles by atheists such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris instead of merely giving these religious charlatans monopoly over the religion and god qustion.
Dear Archbishop Desmond Tutu:
Thank you for all you have done for humanity. I do not share your religious beliefs and I will simply keep God out of the discussion of life and death in that hospital. The unbelievers are not criticizing your god for all of the human sufferings and injustices in this world. But when a believer states that “it was as if God was assuring me” while others were dying, they raise a question, “What kind of god do you believe in?” Of course we will never hear from other 14 year-old boys and girls who may have had a similar conversation with their god, but they died anyhow. Once again thank you for your humanity. May we also thank the physicians who are trying to reduce human suffering.
Dr.Radhakrishan, twentieth century philosopher had said in his book Idealist View of Life,we don't know what is begining nor ending, but we do have to live the life in between, so instead of being tormented by the question of purpose in life etc. why not dream a little and add joy to our lives, So if one enjoys his aetheism or any other ISM and accept each one of us has this task and symphathise with each other we may find a little comfort in our struggle.
S. Heriger writes:
"In this world today we absolutely have the resources, the money and the means to ensure that every single person on this planet is properly fed, clothed and sheltered. Every single one, without exception. The problem is that those of us in a position to help—-the wealthy countries, and all the individuals who live in them, such as you and I—-lack the collective will to fix the problem."
Sadly, this simply isn't true. If there were some way to evenly distribute all of the world's food supplies among all of the world's people tomorrow, each of us would have the *calories* we need, but all would be protein deficient - resulting in the condition known as kwashiorkor. Africa is all too familiar with this condition.
To raise the standard of living all over the world to that of America would take the resources of 4 planet Earths.
To raise the standard of living in places such as India and China means lowering the standard (considerably!) in America. Why do you think the rest of the world hates us? Are you willing to give up most of what you have?
The best answer to the problem of world hunger, disease, and low living standards is birth control. But this is something that most Christians fight tooth and nail, and that's one of the main reasons that those of us who are non-believers are afraid of the encroachment of religion in politics and public policy.
I like your humanistic point of view, so far. I thought you're smart, man.
But then when I read your sentence "I can’t explain it adequately but a wonderful calm descended over me and it was as if God was assuring me, what I don’t know." about your experience when you were only 14 years old in the hospital, I was disappointed. You're no different than the uneducated common people in dealing with what you experienced in your childhood!
You wrote it now when youre already an old man, but pretend that you're still 14 yrs old? Poor Dismond. Get rid off those naive and immature thought, man! Be a mature man, with mature contemplative thought and idea. Forget what you think you thought when you're teenager. Be free from those idiotic teenager of yours, man! It was a trap of narcistic selfworshipness! Poor Dismond!
Atheists criticise people like Archbishop Tutu because they do not understand. Just because a person dies does not mean God doesnt love them. Atheists like Ashley beleive that life on Earth is the only thing that matters, when in fact it is just the begining. And for all the people who died in the tsunami, for example, they are lucky because most of them are probably experiencing eternal happiness with God in Heaven.
Thank you for sharing the personal episode in your life which struck a deep chord in me - the act of complete surrender based on implicit trust. You had the kind of faith in God at 14, that I do not have today, in spite of my lifelong journey. My complete laziness for long periods of time probably explains part of it. My trials do not make me lose faith in God, but I do not surrender with trust in the beautiful way you described. Thank you for inspiring me to start my faith journey all over again today, starting with complete surrender to God based on implict trust.
I applaud Bishop Tutu for sharing his story. To question God's purpose is to assume you're of superior mind. To reject God and yet question His motives lets all the air out of your argument. To accept His will is the first step of faith.
I notice that most of the skeptics and critics all ask the same general question..."Why would a loving God would allow such atrocities as starvation, disease, and genocide?" It’s a fair question, but the answer has always been with us...and willfully ignored because few want to own up to the responsibility that comes with hearing it.
Why would a loving God allow such a thing to happen? Only in my Christian faith can I find a satisfactory answer, an answer that has been provided to us in the second chapter of Genesis. And it’s in the answer that we learn that we’ve been asking the wrong question all along.
The right question, the proper question, should be, “Why do WE allow it to happen?”
How quickly we forget that God has made us stewards of the Creation. We are our brothers’ keepers in every sense of the term. When we reject God and blame Him for pain and suffering, we also reject our responsibility to do something about it. A tremendous portion of the pain and suffering in the world is entirely preventable, yet we lack the collective will to do anything about it.
In this world today we absolutely have the resources, the money and the means to ensure that every single person on this planet is properly fed, clothed and sheltered. Every single one, without exception. The problem is that those of us in a position to help—-the wealthy countries, and all the individuals who live in them, such as you and I—-lack the collective will to fix the problem. We’re too wrapped up in our own lives to look death and evil in the eye and commit to fighting it in a collective effort. We’re content to let it have it’s way elsewhere in the world, just as long as it stays out of our backyard, just as long as it stays out of sight in some country that’s too far away to worry about, just as long as we can stay plugged into our iPods and carve out our own little chunk of affluence and personal space.
We have no control over tsunamis, earthquakes and other natural disasters, but we can control the reponses to the pain and suffering they cause. Blaming God is simply a way of ducking any responsibility for helping your fellow man in a time of need.
Let's stop blaming God. If you don't believe in God, then it's completely illogical to blame Him, and it's time that you accept some responsibility for working toward a solution rather than criticizing from the sidelines. If you do belive in God, then it's time to get to work.
Although Archbishop Tutu is an influential political figure, I am convinced he was writing to convey his personal experience with God, not for any political purpose. However, I also believe that if you try hard enough not to think of yourself, you will find the same calmness in life as in death.
My dear fellows, we’re all traveling between the mysteries of birth and death. We’re all living the great mystery of life, where every moment, every child, every breath is a miracle.
Whether one’s creed is in the myth of science or the myth of religion, whichever path it maybe, one thing is obvious: that we still have no answers. The only choice before us is Faith.
I think Bishop Tutu refers to his faith in his humanity and his divinity. That he chose to have trust in the mystery, without prejudice, and to accept the miracle of his life and his moments. I invite you to trust in the miracle that has enabled you to read this post and rise to your divinity as Bishop Tutu has done.
You have always exemplified the best of what the Christian tradition and humanity offers. Your succinct and thoughtful narrative has simply reinforced that view. Thank you for sharing it.
“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.” -- Bishop Desmond Tutu
Thank you Bishop Tutu. Your story shows just how the adversities we face can be our "gift" to others. Tuberculosis was truly a gift to you. How we come to grips with hardships we face can not only shape our own lives but also have effects on many others. Your experience of God at the moment you faced death has made it possible for many millions to receive blessings that you will only know when you join God in his Kingdom.
God is real and present on Earth and he is always watching over us no matter what. Even if we do die, if we beleive in him or believe in what is rightous then he will always protect us right even into death. This is what I believe this great man meant.
Why do we even talk about faith in God? In my belief, Deism, faith isn't part of believing because God is as real as the earth under my feet. Faith, by definition, is the lack of doubt and so it creates a polarity - each person is supposedly somewhere between the pole - either faithful or doubtful.
But the polarity of doubt/faith is just noise. All that is is what we can sense and cause and effect tells us that there was a beginning, a first cause, sometime in the past. God is the First Cause. Not doubt possible and no faith required.
Bishop Tutu found a calmness that was given to him by the Creator through the eons of evolution. Regardless of if it was the magical wave of God's hand or the passage of time that made his calmness possible it helped him through his hardest day and set a path for his life that has made the entire world better.
With complete respect (for your political courage, not your irrational belief system), when faced with the realization of death, you discovered the real power of humanity in the 100,000-year old process of evolving social consciousness. That is quiet enough to make you human -- no "god" or external force is necessary.
Thank you for your lifetime efforts to advance the humanity of all of us.
Being an African I can relate to Desmond Tutu's testimonial. Children who have been maimed, mutilated in vicious wars still manifest hope and faith in God: Unlike in the West where materialism,lust or greed are real demons that have imprisoned many. Don't tell a Westerner about faith in God when he has no pension, life insurance or a sizeable bank account. The tangible resonates more than the intangible or abstract. Perception equals conviction so goes the popular tune.
bankole@mindspring.com
The depth of offendedness at God's truths is amazing. TRUTH IS ALWAYS TRUTH - whether or not you believe or receive it as truth does not make it any less truth. Even satan believes in God he just REJECTS HIM because he wants to be greater. There is only ONE WAY TO GOD and that is through His Son Jesus Christ - WHO IS VERY MUCH ALIVE and as close as your very heartbeat. He IS your every heartbeat. As for why many suffer, God's ways are not our ways. Intimate relationship with Christ is NOT A RELIGION and He reveals His ways to those who care to seek Him! False "religions", however, follow/worship dead leaders. Jesus is the only one who is ALIVE. He LOVES YOU and your hatred does not offend Him - He will reveal Himself to you whenever you are truly ready - He is a mere whisper away, all you have to do is call on Him!
Considerations relative to the comments by Ashley and Peter:
The physical world in its natural state is compatible to human emotional needs. Much literaure, art, poetry and music surround our aesthetic experiences.
However, the physical world holds intermittent deleterious motions that overpower the natural state, and cause devestation; be it a predator; a war; disease; injury; earthquake, or tsunami. Our course suggests these events are incompatible. Because overall direction is to reveal the necessary physical and behavioral principles, and release the human ingenuity to develop the technological means to escape from
harm.
The body machine automatically delivers environmental images to the invisible person,--or SELF. The most basic need of each invisible person,--or SELF is happiness. That an organism be compatible with its environment is a basic biological principle. That the natural state of our environment is compatible; and deleterious actions are not; could suggest this negativity; the actions which overpower, and bring things to an end is foreign;---was not part of our original environment!
It could be God created a beautful world intended for our happiness. Then the creation was changed. It is thought that moves the body. Our 'God' surely would not be a lone existence in this other believed dimension beyond our awareness. Another consciousness greater than ours could be responsible for the change. Natural laws are steadfast. The only way out of our predicament would be to acquire the necessary knowledge to improve communication, prevent catastrophe and restore a perfect world.
We prayed; and moved toward reaching such an eventual compatibility!
As to why one person survives, and another does not:
I believe God created nature; that these negative motions were not part of the original creation; but nature operates through steadfast laws which can't be changed; making individual fate dependent on particular position in the spheres of time, place and person. However from a common place deep within personal thought a supernatural energy can be realized, and released that can surmount all physical obstacles. That this is possible for an individual, and has been exemplified by humanity; in that after just a rudimentary effort to 'come together in thought'
we seemed capable of unlimited eventualities!
The difference between these miracles on an individual basis, and for humanity seems that where almost all of the individuals as Desmond Tutu credit God; and proceed to make our world a better place; human authorities credit human intelligence, and usurp the knowledge.
For those of a negative mindset (trolls) who are ridiculing (flaming) Archbishop Tutu, you have poor reading comprehension.
What he told God was: "God if I’m going to die, that’s okay; if not, that’s okay too."
He never said God saved him and didn't save others. After his prayer a calm descended over him, because either way it was not in his control to die or not and he could leave his worries elsewhere.
So because he did not die, each day was a "bonus" to him because he had the gift of life where so many had not received it and, as can be seen in his works, he has tried to share that gift with others.
People, religious or not, can recognize how precious life is.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall see God". Indeed, Bishop Tutu shall certainly see Him.
I have read several posts that said the calm came to Bishop Tutu as a result of his acceptace of his fate. I must disagree with you. The Bishop's calm came from Christ who is the "Prince of Peace" and gives us a "peace that passes all understanding". If not, how can he have any peace when the unknown of death stared him in the face? If you do not know God, what do you expect when you die? I believe Bishop Tutu realized that if he died then, he would be with God and that gave him peace. A certainty of where your eternal desination is gives you peace.
Susan: Thanks for your insight and deep-thought. Unlike cynics and negative commentators like Ashley and Peter M. you got it right. The repected Archbishop Tutu was not saying that he was better than all those who have died unjustly or through disasters such as Tsunami. He was just saying that the experience solidified his trust in God.
His take is analogous to that of Jesus Christ when he was about to be unjustly crucified and he pondered that if God was willing he should let the cup (the agony of death) be allayed. Eventually, he said "Thy will be done, not mine." This is TRUST or FAITH in God.
And if I may hasten to say that the ultimate hope of a Christian is that after his bodily death comes eternity of his soul in the Kingdom of Heaven. Thus, regardless of how peaceful, agonizing or violent one's death is, death is ultimately inevitable and for us Christians it is that hope of eternity that sustains us.
I must also hasten to say as well that the life of a Christian is a journey. Being a Christian does not mean that we do not struggle with many of the sinful trappings of the world. However, we have the blessing of the Holy Spirit that walks, talks, counsels, helps and lifts us up when we fail and fall.
Of course, all these are foolishness to the stonehearted who refuses to believe (I Corinthians 1:18) and thus chooses the path of perishing.
Go on the most reverent Tutu, keep on spreading the Word and teaching the faith and thank you for being exemplary.
All Comments (117)
Desmond you are an inspiration to me i am doing a reasearch about you and is learning far so much about you i hope to meet you someday i live in omaha nebraska and i go to benson high if you ever think about visiting thats were i be i have fun and caring day bye.
June 25, 2008 12:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 25, 2008 12:31
im a sheep i get raped by NZ peoples ahhh help me desmond tutu
June 3, 2008 3:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 3, 2008 03:43
just joking you are not stupid you suckjoip9
May 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 22, 2008 14:23
you are stupid
May 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 22, 2008 14:23
i rock
May 22, 2008 2:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 22, 2008 14:21
great life
April 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 28, 2008 17:46
epjimu xwgl rsodfn wsahlpgmr zbunyg amyvr fzvkq
August 3, 2007 4:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on August 3, 2007 16:09
I think that yes, God has let people die - but he can't save everyone can he? He saves some people because he can - but if he saved everyone from dying then we'd all be stuck with so many people that we can't move. Dying happens - you just have to accept that. Yes he saved Desmund Tutu and yes he lets others die - maybe because Desmond writes that book later in his life about God - He decided to save him or Desmond Tutu just got lucky and God was only watching. It's all complicated - there are so many different possibilities you just don't know. Why don't you just trust God and the doctors and hope for the best!
Bye and Peace!!!
June 25, 2007 11:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 25, 2007 11:24
Hi E. I agree with the Catholic Church's position that what happens after death is a mystery. It is inappropriate for men to pass judgment on the fate of others. To do so would be an example of building another tower of Babel. God is the sole judge and determinant of the fate of men.
So, unlike some of the Protestant groups, I do not believe in a baptismal "requirement" to enter heaven.
January 10, 2007 2:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 10, 2007 14:51
Mike, you say: “God does not kill people who have cancer, and God does not kill people in floods. The world is imperfect -- fortunately, if Christians, like the Archbishop, are correct, we will see a better, eternal world after this one.”
Tell, me Mike, what do you think happens to good, ethical religious non-Christians after they die? For instance, people whose parents raised them in another faith or people who lived in a remote region that Christian missionaries never got to.
I’m truly interested in hearing your thoughts on this and how you arrived at your conclusions.
I’ll check back here later today and tomorrow, in hopes that you respond to my message.
January 8, 2007 8:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 8, 2007 08:21
Reality Check, you say, "Seems like a deliberate obfuscation effort to me, but I'll let you decide."
Thanks for the tip on how to find Harris's recent essay. How did you know to find it there?
I agree - the Forum managers did a great job of trying to hide his comments - breaking with their convention on listing new essays on the main page. I suspect it was done in an effort keep Harris's remarks from stealing attention from the other esteemed, but less popular panelists.
It didn't work too well, though, did it? The main energy of the forum is over there. Here’s the link for people in a hurry: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/sam_harris/2007/01/consciousness_without_faith_1.html
January 8, 2007 8:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 8, 2007 08:06
S. Heriger wrote:
"I realize that what I propose (focusing our collective will) isn't possible. Nonetheless, I feel we absolutely should work on the problem as though we can solve it."
I certainly agree that we should work on the problem. Where I suspect we differ is on *how* to work on the problem. I don't expect any magical help, and I've never seen any sign of it aiding anyone's efforts - no one yet has solved it.
If your plan includes converting more of the world's land to agriculture, that isn't a plan that I could support. We're destroying animal habitat at a rate that sends many species spiraling toward extinction every year. Maybe a planet full of well-fed humans and no other species apart from maybe some food animals is appealing to you, but it's not a world I'd want to live in. We're also destroying the rainforest that has a major impact on our climate and the oxygen we breathe. And whatever increase in agricultural output we manage to achieve will be worthless in a short time, as the world's population doubles and redoubles in ever shorter periods of time.
In short, if birth control isn't at least *part* of the solution, then there is no solution.
Everyone loves to point to Mother Teresa and all of the wonderful work she did and the sacrifices she made. But I just see someone pushing the Catholic faith, which prohibits birth control, in a region where to do so really ought to be criminal.
I'm sorry that my final sentence seemed condescending to you, but you have no idea how frustrating it is for a realist to be confronted with this wide-eyed piety that believes that God will take care of everything. He hasn't for all these centuries, and I see no sign that he's changing his ways now. There are people who say "God will provide" dying of hunger every day.
January 8, 2007 12:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 8, 2007 00:39
I thank the Archbishop for his story. I had the privilege of seeing him in person when he came to my university a few years ago.
I recently completed a course of chemotherapy for cancer. The cancer was in the most advanced stage, and I frequently thought about death. Like the Archbishop, I had a similar encounter with God. This encounter was beyond words.
A few months ago sat with Jesuit Cardinal Avery Dulles. Our conversation was wide ranging, and he said something obvious yet profound that many of the those posting comments should consider: that God created a world that is not perfect.
The physical laws that cause cancer are the same laws that allowed human beings to evolve. The physical laws that allow rainfall to, in part, provide food to animals and people are the same laws that cause floods.
God does not kill people who have cancer, and God does not kill people in floods. The world is imperfect -- fortunately, if Christians, like the Archbishop, are correct, we will see a better, eternal world after this one.
January 7, 2007 9:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 21:53
Hello again E.
Harris has posted his essay on the current question titled "Consciousness Without Faith". It was posted yesterday. There are quite a few NoGodders over there posting.
Don't look under "All Panelist Responses" It's not there. Go to "All On Faith Panelists" and look up Sam Harris. Hope you enjoy.
Seems like a deliberate obfuscation effort to me, but I'll let you decide..
January 7, 2007 8:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 20:36
"Anonymous" asked for this forum to publish essays by Harris and Dawkins.
They have done it -- check under "past questions" and look for "Atheism is enjoying a certian vogue...."
January 7, 2007 7:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 19:18
S. Heriger, you say:
"I was simply expressing my point of view (the point of these forums), not suggesting everyone run out and covert."
I understand that and am glad you're here expressing your point of view. And when you say, "When we begin to do God's will, He always steps in and becomes involved" it sounds more like an assertion than a point of view -- i.e. – telling us what God ALWAYS does. I don’t understand how you or anyone would know that.
I don't want to have an argument and I certainly don't mean to insult you, but I in the spirit of open dialogue, I do want to tell you how it came across to me.
January 7, 2007 7:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 19:14
It’s unfortunate that these conversations invariably dwindle to a bitter squabble between the haves and have-nots.
On the one side we have those who have blind faith and the opposing camp consists of those with blind lack of faith. While the battle continues, this farce of a civilization we’ve achieved sinks deeper and deeper into its hypocritical quagmire. Our pretence of intelligence is increasingly confronted with the reality of our inability to heal the festering wounds and ills of humanity.
We humans have tragically lost the cord that tethers us to the fundamentals of life. It is categorically impossible for our feeble minds to accept the mystery and get on with the task at hand, to live a noble life and work to bring light into this world.
January 7, 2007 6:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 18:37
I you approach life with gratitude, as Desmond Tutu, it's easier to live a life of fullfillment (from which others will benefit). If you approach it with a "what's in it for me?"-attitude chances are you'll never be able to achieve much to help yourself or others. Seems to me that's the testimony of bishop Tutu.
January 7, 2007 5:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 17:38
To reflect on the human course, and human behavior; it may become evident it is as S. HERIGER describes,--the "collective WILL"--that matters; that identifies the nature of God's help; and holds the key to our happiness.
By conscious nature each person wants the other to 'think as he does'. This leads to conformity; evident in local community, cultural or occupational styles;--to coercion by religions, or political 'isms'. The reason for this tendency to conform could be 'there really is ONE CONSCIOUSNESS of humanity'! We hold the same basic physical and emotional needs;--so should be of one overall mind.
The culprit interfering with this truth seems individual separation in the spheres of time, place and person. A body automatically forms an environmental,--or physical mind. An individual mind is relative to era and experiences; geographic location; and physiology. No two people are exactly equal in these areas;--so, no two physical minds are the same! Our course suggests the TRUE mind remains buried under millions of different realities;--or individual worlds formed by local environmental conditions.
When we look at these 'outside-in';--or physical realities; we see they all---like the world they copy---offer only temporary gain, or pleasure; eventually fall;--for the individual, or a nation.
Our American ancestors had no blueprint;--but placed their TRUST in God. Believed in temporary sacrifice; for everlasting happiness. That we became prolific should not be an enigma. The American difference was in allowing energy to flow---like in all living things---from the inside-out! We focus on the democratic format, but may overlook its success was relative to a "collective WILL" expressed in IDEALS as equality, truth, peace, freedom, compassion, personal worth, life and justice. These conscious energies composed the 'soul' of America; were the source of our strength; surmounted all physical obstacles--beginning with victory over a far more knowledgable and powerful British Empire.
Of interest is when conformity was to this "collective will";--to personal character maturation through prayer to a God of love;--when vision came from a common place deep within personal thought;---a compatible DIVERSITY emerged;--that evoked an ascent like no other period in human existence!
It may be no accident our most astounding area of technological progress surrounds communication. "To share thought" is our means of growth. Consciousness is the living, growing thing in our midst. "To come together in thought" seems an instinctive direction.
All human suffering could be relative to conscious separation from each other;---and God!
January 7, 2007 4:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 16:59
Pam,
You're probably familiar with this, but if not, it's an enlightening resource:
http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/endofpoverty/
I realize that what I propose (focusing our collective will) isn't possible. Nonetheless, I feel we absolutely should work on the problem as though we can solve it. I'd continue the discussion, but I don't see how it would be constructive after reading your last sentence, which stooped to condescension. Best of luck of your life's journey.
E. Favorite,
If you believe it's all about hard work, drive and luck meeting opportunity, and you get out there and work for it, then I applaud you. I just like to see people get involved with the problem in spite of the overwhelming odds against them. I certainly don't expect everyone to approach it from a faith-based perspective as I do, and I respect anyone's choice to approach it any way they choose. I was simply expressing my point of view (the point of these forums), not suggesting everyone run out and covert.
Best wishes...
January 7, 2007 4:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 16:16
Wow, there's alot of bitter people around these parts. The whining is incredible - wah wah wah, people die so God doesn't exist, wah wah wah.
January 7, 2007 3:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 15:20
S. Heriger, you say:
"I know from experience that when you begin to tackle a seemingly insurmountable problem such as human suffering with all your mind, body and soul, you suddenly discover that help starts arriving from the most unexpected sources."
I've noticed that too, but unlike you, I don't assume that it's because "When we begin to do God's will, He always steps in and becomes involved."
I've thought it was from a combination of drive and luck and people finally noticing my cause because I'm getting the word out about it. I've also noticed sometimes even incredible determination doesn't get me what I want. Still, even in a failed effort, there's often a valuable, unexpected lesson to be learned.
You also say, “If you don't believe in God, then it's completely illogical to blame Him….”
I don’t think non-believers are blaming God; but they might be blaming some PEOPLE who say they believe in God, but whose faith doesn’t translate into compassion or good works for humanity.
January 7, 2007 1:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 13:49
S. Heriger,
We will have to agree to disagree on the protein issue. I realize that you wern't talking about a redistribution - such a thing isn't possible. That was a hypothetical.
I wasn't disagreeing about the lack of a collective will; rather, I was trying to point out that it will always be lacking. You say you've lowered your standard of living by 75%, but you typed your reply on a computer. That's not low enough. I've been to Africa and India - I've seen just how low a living standard can go.
Americans are quite addicted to their (I agree) obscenely greedy lifestyle. Do you realize what proportion of the world's population is living in abject poverty? To raise all those people to even a minimal standard - a roof over their heads and 3 squares a day (including adequate protein, assuming that that's possible) would mean a *drastic* reduction in the American (and European) standard - not just giving up iPods. You'll never make it happen voluntarily. Not on your own, not with the help of your imaginary friend.
January 7, 2007 1:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 13:04
Pam,
I respectively disagree with you on the protein issue. I did my homework before I made that statement. It's a concern that has to be addressed in a solution, but it's also a fixable one. I wasn't suggesting we simply redistribute what we currently have, but work collectively to create a functional solution to solve the problems.
Also, you say: "To raise the standard of living all over the world to that of America would take the resources of 4 planet Earths."
I never suggested for one minute that we raise the standard of living to match that of America. In fact, I'm appalled by the idea of doing that. I simply stated that we collectively lack the will to do much about the problem, which is absolutely true. In fact, you completely supported my statement about our lack of collective will when you stated: "To raise the standard of living in places such as India and China means lowering the standard (considerably!) in America. Why do you think the rest of the world hates us? Are you willing to give up most of what you have?"
The answer is yes, I will. In fact, I already have. I've downsized my life by nearly 75% over the past few years in terms of consumption of goods, resources and products I don't need, and my "standard of living" has improved drastically. The fact that most Americans, and especially many who call themselves Christians, don't want to do that is ample evidence that we lack the collective will to address problems elsewhere. Solving the problem requires some sacrifice by the more fortunate. That's us. It's part of the equation. And as I've stated, we lack the collective will to do so. When we immediately begin coming up with reasons why we can't do it, no matter how practical they sound, we're supporting the original statement I made.
Should we "lower" the standard of living here in America? I don't know what you mean by "lower" but I do think we live a horribly overstuffed lifestyle here. We are about 8% of the world's population and we consume about 70% of its natural resourses. This is a travesty. It is gluttony of the highest order. If lowering the standard of living means coming to terms with the self-centeredness of our soul-numbing consumer culture that tells us that we need to own as much crap as possible, cutting down on consumption of resourses, bringing the needs of others to the forefront of our minds, then I'm all for it. I also submit that most Americans aren't, which is exactly what I mean by lacking the collective will.
With all due respect, your argument only proved my point. In spite of the odds, and in spite of the sacrifices, we must do whatever we can. That's why I belive in God. I know from experience that when you begin to tackle a seemingly insurmountable problem such as human suffering with all your mind, body and soul, you suddenly discover that help starts arriving from the most unexpected sources. When we begin to do God's will, He always steps in and becomes involved. That's a confirmation of my faith. As Martin Luther said, "Pray like it all depends on God, then get to work like it all depends on you." You just might be amazed what happens.
Peace
January 7, 2007 9:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 09:27
Mt. TuTu:
Thank you for sharing your story, for looking past the nasayers and for continuing in your faith. God works through people like yourself, although in most cases, through those with much lower offices in life. Regardless, God Bless, and, despite the earlier reponse, continue your focus upon speaking the truth rather than projection.
January 7, 2007 8:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 08:41
DEAR MR TUTU
i think you are a great man but please next time you are on tv try to speak so we can understand what the hell you are talking about!
say it loud say it proud but dont mumble!
January 7, 2007 7:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 07:37
It is a pity Peter M didn't grasp what the Archbishop said. I am privileged to have shaken your hand Archbishop when you visited Jamaica. To this day you are one of dwindling number of men of the cloth in whom I have great trust and admiration.
January 7, 2007 7:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 07:36
I request Washington Post to publish articles by atheists such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris instead of merely giving these religious charlatans monopoly over the religion and god qustion.
January 7, 2007 6:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 06:21
Dear Archbishop Desmond Tutu:
Thank you for all you have done for humanity. I do not share your religious beliefs and I will simply keep God out of the discussion of life and death in that hospital. The unbelievers are not criticizing your god for all of the human sufferings and injustices in this world. But when a believer states that “it was as if God was assuring me” while others were dying, they raise a question, “What kind of god do you believe in?” Of course we will never hear from other 14 year-old boys and girls who may have had a similar conversation with their god, but they died anyhow. Once again thank you for your humanity. May we also thank the physicians who are trying to reduce human suffering.
January 7, 2007 3:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 03:59
So Mr. Tutu's god decided to save Mr. Tutu but not the thousnads of children who died in the tsunamis.
I ask Mr. Tutu.
Is such a god worth worshipping?????
January 7, 2007 3:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 03:06
Dr.Radhakrishan, twentieth century philosopher had said in his book Idealist View of Life,we don't know what is begining nor ending, but we do have to live the life in between, so instead of being tormented by the question of purpose in life etc. why not dream a little and add joy to our lives, So if one enjoys his aetheism or any other ISM and accept each one of us has this task and symphathise with each other we may find a little comfort in our struggle.
January 7, 2007 1:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 01:55
S. Heriger writes:
"In this world today we absolutely have the resources, the money and the means to ensure that every single person on this planet is properly fed, clothed and sheltered. Every single one, without exception. The problem is that those of us in a position to help—-the wealthy countries, and all the individuals who live in them, such as you and I—-lack the collective will to fix the problem."
Sadly, this simply isn't true. If there were some way to evenly distribute all of the world's food supplies among all of the world's people tomorrow, each of us would have the *calories* we need, but all would be protein deficient - resulting in the condition known as kwashiorkor. Africa is all too familiar with this condition.
To raise the standard of living all over the world to that of America would take the resources of 4 planet Earths.
To raise the standard of living in places such as India and China means lowering the standard (considerably!) in America. Why do you think the rest of the world hates us? Are you willing to give up most of what you have?
The best answer to the problem of world hunger, disease, and low living standards is birth control. But this is something that most Christians fight tooth and nail, and that's one of the main reasons that those of us who are non-believers are afraid of the encroachment of religion in politics and public policy.
January 7, 2007 1:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 7, 2007 01:29
O, poor Desmond.
I like your humanistic point of view, so far. I thought you're smart, man.
But then when I read your sentence "I can’t explain it adequately but a wonderful calm descended over me and it was as if God was assuring me, what I don’t know." about your experience when you were only 14 years old in the hospital, I was disappointed. You're no different than the uneducated common people in dealing with what you experienced in your childhood!
You wrote it now when youre already an old man, but pretend that you're still 14 yrs old? Poor Dismond. Get rid off those naive and immature thought, man! Be a mature man, with mature contemplative thought and idea. Forget what you think you thought when you're teenager. Be free from those idiotic teenager of yours, man! It was a trap of narcistic selfworshipness! Poor Dismond!
January 6, 2007 11:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 23:14
Atheists criticise people like Archbishop Tutu because they do not understand. Just because a person dies does not mean God doesnt love them. Atheists like Ashley beleive that life on Earth is the only thing that matters, when in fact it is just the begining. And for all the people who died in the tsunami, for example, they are lucky because most of them are probably experiencing eternal happiness with God in Heaven.
January 6, 2007 9:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 21:18
Dear Archbishop Tutu
Thank you for sharing the personal episode in your life which struck a deep chord in me - the act of complete surrender based on implicit trust. You had the kind of faith in God at 14, that I do not have today, in spite of my lifelong journey. My complete laziness for long periods of time probably explains part of it. My trials do not make me lose faith in God, but I do not surrender with trust in the beautiful way you described. Thank you for inspiring me to start my faith journey all over again today, starting with complete surrender to God based on implict trust.
Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia
January 6, 2007 8:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 20:18
I applaud Bishop Tutu for sharing his story. To question God's purpose is to assume you're of superior mind. To reject God and yet question His motives lets all the air out of your argument. To accept His will is the first step of faith.
I notice that most of the skeptics and critics all ask the same general question..."Why would a loving God would allow such atrocities as starvation, disease, and genocide?" It’s a fair question, but the answer has always been with us...and willfully ignored because few want to own up to the responsibility that comes with hearing it.
Why would a loving God allow such a thing to happen? Only in my Christian faith can I find a satisfactory answer, an answer that has been provided to us in the second chapter of Genesis. And it’s in the answer that we learn that we’ve been asking the wrong question all along.
The right question, the proper question, should be, “Why do WE allow it to happen?”
How quickly we forget that God has made us stewards of the Creation. We are our brothers’ keepers in every sense of the term. When we reject God and blame Him for pain and suffering, we also reject our responsibility to do something about it. A tremendous portion of the pain and suffering in the world is entirely preventable, yet we lack the collective will to do anything about it.
In this world today we absolutely have the resources, the money and the means to ensure that every single person on this planet is properly fed, clothed and sheltered. Every single one, without exception. The problem is that those of us in a position to help—-the wealthy countries, and all the individuals who live in them, such as you and I—-lack the collective will to fix the problem. We’re too wrapped up in our own lives to look death and evil in the eye and commit to fighting it in a collective effort. We’re content to let it have it’s way elsewhere in the world, just as long as it stays out of our backyard, just as long as it stays out of sight in some country that’s too far away to worry about, just as long as we can stay plugged into our iPods and carve out our own little chunk of affluence and personal space.
We have no control over tsunamis, earthquakes and other natural disasters, but we can control the reponses to the pain and suffering they cause. Blaming God is simply a way of ducking any responsibility for helping your fellow man in a time of need.
Let's stop blaming God. If you don't believe in God, then it's completely illogical to blame Him, and it's time that you accept some responsibility for working toward a solution rather than criticizing from the sidelines. If you do belive in God, then it's time to get to work.
Peace...
January 6, 2007 4:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 16:04
Although Archbishop Tutu is an influential political figure, I am convinced he was writing to convey his personal experience with God, not for any political purpose. However, I also believe that if you try hard enough not to think of yourself, you will find the same calmness in life as in death.
January 6, 2007 1:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 01:42
And the Prophet Muhammad PBUH said, "Trust in God, but also tie up your camels".
January 6, 2007 1:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 01:38
I do apologize…the link above has a typo.
Peace,
www.alfa8.com
January 6, 2007 12:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 00:57
My dear fellows, we’re all traveling between the mysteries of birth and death. We’re all living the great mystery of life, where every moment, every child, every breath is a miracle.
Whether one’s creed is in the myth of science or the myth of religion, whichever path it maybe, one thing is obvious: that we still have no answers. The only choice before us is Faith.
I think Bishop Tutu refers to his faith in his humanity and his divinity. That he chose to have trust in the mystery, without prejudice, and to accept the miracle of his life and his moments. I invite you to trust in the miracle that has enabled you to read this post and rise to your divinity as Bishop Tutu has done.
January 6, 2007 12:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 00:42
It's really sad that some atheists and naysayers have nothing better to do except carp and snipe at the genuine spiritual experiences of others.
January 6, 2007 12:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 00:11
Dear Bishop Tutu:
You have always exemplified the best of what the Christian tradition and humanity offers. Your succinct and thoughtful narrative has simply reinforced that view. Thank you for sharing it.
January 6, 2007 12:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 6, 2007 00:03
I always liked the following quote:
“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.” -- Bishop Desmond Tutu
January 5, 2007 11:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 23:55
Thank you Bishop Tutu. Your story shows just how the adversities we face can be our "gift" to others. Tuberculosis was truly a gift to you. How we come to grips with hardships we face can not only shape our own lives but also have effects on many others. Your experience of God at the moment you faced death has made it possible for many millions to receive blessings that you will only know when you join God in his Kingdom.
Peace be with you!
January 5, 2007 11:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 23:40
Archbiship Tutu isnt saying he knows why some people die and others dont guys!
He's just grateful for the time he got afterward adn saw it as a gift. He isnt saying HE deserves it! Hence the word GIFT.
I mean, would you rather he give you an empty theological discourse on death and dying?
January 5, 2007 10:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 22:25
God is real and present on Earth and he is always watching over us no matter what. Even if we do die, if we beleive in him or believe in what is rightous then he will always protect us right even into death. This is what I believe this great man meant.
January 5, 2007 10:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 22:20
Why do we even talk about faith in God? In my belief, Deism, faith isn't part of believing because God is as real as the earth under my feet. Faith, by definition, is the lack of doubt and so it creates a polarity - each person is supposedly somewhere between the pole - either faithful or doubtful.
But the polarity of doubt/faith is just noise. All that is is what we can sense and cause and effect tells us that there was a beginning, a first cause, sometime in the past. God is the First Cause. Not doubt possible and no faith required.
Bishop Tutu found a calmness that was given to him by the Creator through the eons of evolution. Regardless of if it was the magical wave of God's hand or the passage of time that made his calmness possible it helped him through his hardest day and set a path for his life that has made the entire world better.
What can possibly be wrong with that?
January 5, 2007 9:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 21:36
With complete respect (for your political courage, not your irrational belief system), when faced with the realization of death, you discovered the real power of humanity in the 100,000-year old process of evolving social consciousness. That is quiet enough to make you human -- no "god" or external force is necessary.
Thank you for your lifetime efforts to advance the humanity of all of us.
January 5, 2007 9:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 21:23
Being an African I can relate to Desmond Tutu's testimonial. Children who have been maimed, mutilated in vicious wars still manifest hope and faith in God: Unlike in the West where materialism,lust or greed are real demons that have imprisoned many. Don't tell a Westerner about faith in God when he has no pension, life insurance or a sizeable bank account. The tangible resonates more than the intangible or abstract. Perception equals conviction so goes the popular tune.
bankole@mindspring.com
January 5, 2007 8:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 20:57
The depth of offendedness at God's truths is amazing. TRUTH IS ALWAYS TRUTH - whether or not you believe or receive it as truth does not make it any less truth. Even satan believes in God he just REJECTS HIM because he wants to be greater. There is only ONE WAY TO GOD and that is through His Son Jesus Christ - WHO IS VERY MUCH ALIVE and as close as your very heartbeat. He IS your every heartbeat. As for why many suffer, God's ways are not our ways. Intimate relationship with Christ is NOT A RELIGION and He reveals His ways to those who care to seek Him! False "religions", however, follow/worship dead leaders. Jesus is the only one who is ALIVE. He LOVES YOU and your hatred does not offend Him - He will reveal Himself to you whenever you are truly ready - He is a mere whisper away, all you have to do is call on Him!
January 5, 2007 8:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 20:25
Considerations relative to the comments by Ashley and Peter:
The physical world in its natural state is compatible to human emotional needs. Much literaure, art, poetry and music surround our aesthetic experiences.
However, the physical world holds intermittent deleterious motions that overpower the natural state, and cause devestation; be it a predator; a war; disease; injury; earthquake, or tsunami. Our course suggests these events are incompatible. Because overall direction is to reveal the necessary physical and behavioral principles, and release the human ingenuity to develop the technological means to escape from
harm.
The body machine automatically delivers environmental images to the invisible person,--or SELF. The most basic need of each invisible person,--or SELF is happiness. That an organism be compatible with its environment is a basic biological principle. That the natural state of our environment is compatible; and deleterious actions are not; could suggest this negativity; the actions which overpower, and bring things to an end is foreign;---was not part of our original environment!
It could be God created a beautful world intended for our happiness. Then the creation was changed. It is thought that moves the body. Our 'God' surely would not be a lone existence in this other believed dimension beyond our awareness. Another consciousness greater than ours could be responsible for the change. Natural laws are steadfast. The only way out of our predicament would be to acquire the necessary knowledge to improve communication, prevent catastrophe and restore a perfect world.
We prayed; and moved toward reaching such an eventual compatibility!
As to why one person survives, and another does not:
I believe God created nature; that these negative motions were not part of the original creation; but nature operates through steadfast laws which can't be changed; making individual fate dependent on particular position in the spheres of time, place and person. However from a common place deep within personal thought a supernatural energy can be realized, and released that can surmount all physical obstacles. That this is possible for an individual, and has been exemplified by humanity; in that after just a rudimentary effort to 'come together in thought'
we seemed capable of unlimited eventualities!
The difference between these miracles on an individual basis, and for humanity seems that where almost all of the individuals as Desmond Tutu credit God; and proceed to make our world a better place; human authorities credit human intelligence, and usurp the knowledge.
January 5, 2007 8:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 20:07
Yes, Tutu. And 6 million slaughtered Jews trusted god too. What a kind and trustworthy friend he is.
But it's wonderful that at least he made you "feel calm." What more proof to we need that there's a god? Bishop Tutu feels calm! Yay!!!
January 5, 2007 7:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 19:11
ARCHBISHOP TUTU
so simply put and so powerful-
your complete submission to god and your constant selfless service to humanity is its own testament
your life itself is all the proof anyone who doubts needs about the proof of god-
i had the great blessing of preceeding the bishop with a poem on freedom at the duke university chapel in the 80s at a protest against aparthied
i went to my first seder there- and the bishop was an angel of light and it is one of the most memorable of experiences
i had forgotten all about it but even the distant memory of his compelling speech is inspiring right this minute
btw he was successful- the interests of duke were divested in south africa
a lifetime of light he has lived
how could anyone possibly criticize him?
January 5, 2007 6:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 18:41
To everyone who reads this:
God loves every single one of you even if you don't believe in him. We will continue to love you until your life does not exist anymore.
God Bless
January 5, 2007 6:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 18:25
For those of a negative mindset (trolls) who are ridiculing (flaming) Archbishop Tutu, you have poor reading comprehension.
What he told God was: "God if I’m going to die, that’s okay; if not, that’s okay too."
He never said God saved him and didn't save others. After his prayer a calm descended over him, because either way it was not in his control to die or not and he could leave his worries elsewhere.
So because he did not die, each day was a "bonus" to him because he had the gift of life where so many had not received it and, as can be seen in his works, he has tried to share that gift with others.
People, religious or not, can recognize how precious life is.
January 5, 2007 6:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 18:17
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall see God". Indeed, Bishop Tutu shall certainly see Him.
I have read several posts that said the calm came to Bishop Tutu as a result of his acceptace of his fate. I must disagree with you. The Bishop's calm came from Christ who is the "Prince of Peace" and gives us a "peace that passes all understanding". If not, how can he have any peace when the unknown of death stared him in the face? If you do not know God, what do you expect when you die? I believe Bishop Tutu realized that if he died then, he would be with God and that gave him peace. A certainty of where your eternal desination is gives you peace.
January 5, 2007 5:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 17:59
speaking as an atheist
I think David, just above, has truly spoken the word of God.
A compassionate, spiritual, smart statement of belief in a kind of dialog and a kind of honest and mature search for Truth.
thank you David.
January 5, 2007 5:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 17:53
Susan: Thanks for your insight and deep-thought. Unlike cynics and negative commentators like Ashley and Peter M. you got it right. The repected Archbishop Tutu was not saying that he was better than all those who have died unjustly or through disasters such as Tsunami. He was just saying that the experience solidified his trust in God.
His take is analogous to that of Jesus Christ when he was about to be unjustly crucified and he pondered that if God was willing he should let the cup (the agony of death) be allayed. Eventually, he said "Thy will be done, not mine." This is TRUST or FAITH in God.
And if I may hasten to say that the ultimate hope of a Christian is that after his bodily death comes eternity of his soul in the Kingdom of Heaven. Thus, regardless of how peaceful, agonizing or violent one's death is, death is ultimately inevitable and for us Christians it is that hope of eternity that sustains us.
I must also hasten to say as well that the life of a Christian is a journey. Being a Christian does not mean that we do not struggle with many of the sinful trappings of the world. However, we have the blessing of the Holy Spirit that walks, talks, counsels, helps and lifts us up when we fail and fall.
Of course, all these are foolishness to the stonehearted who refuses to believe (I Corinthians 1:18) and thus chooses the path of perishing.
Go on the most reverent Tutu, keep on spreading the Word and teaching the faith and thank you for being exemplary.
January 5, 2007 5:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 5, 2007 17:29</