All Comments (33)

As I am always such a big supporter of your views and offerings of wisdom, today I find a slight shift in my ability to concur.

Prostitution is not a victimless crime. When an exchange of your personal worth is gaged by a dollar amount it becomes less about your souls purpose and more about giving away a gift of the sacred. No woman reflects back to her early years yearning to be a prostitute. A teacher, an artist, a public speaker perhaps, but not a woman that sales her flesh for approval. The small rift in a conscious choice begins to erode into a glass bedroom where one is ethically inpuned and feels less then sacred.

The interaction of giving of oneself completely in the act of sensual and sexual pleasure is an exchange of a very sacred and expanding nature. But if it is from the heart, it is beyond the attachment of material acquisitions. It becomes the evolution of self love and the expanded awareness of the sacred feminine. To look in the eyes of the beloved and expand into the spiritual and sensual realms of consciousness goes beyond this shallow exchange.

From the thinking heart, each individual choice comes from life's experiences. In the law of giving and receiving it must be of equal meaning and purpose. I cannot imagine that occurs in prostitution. And on a lighter note, in most judicial systems prostitution is not legal and should be viewed as it is seen within the eyes of our respective collective morally based systems.

Listen to the wise insight of spiritual guru, Deepak Chopra regarding the "Spitzer" expose. The all wise and knowing one actually said, "As to the specifics of the case, prostitution is a victimless crime as long as minors aren't involved, or sex trafficking of unwilling women, or physical abuse."

Oh really, Mr. Chopra..."a victimless crime".

1) The wife who trusted her husbands when he vowed, "to forsake all others, etc". who is now facing the reality that her husband cared more about getting "off" than he cared about cherishing her love, trust and commitment and protecting her from pain and heartbreak. Who viewed the love and respect of his wife and daughters as expendable as long as he could get some young exciting "pussy" that comes with no emotional baggage or commitment.

2) The teenage daughters whose lives will be changed forever--whose hearts have been ripped out and who will struggle with ever trusting a man to be honorable, faithful and to love them more than they love their own perverted sexual desires. "I hope to find a husband just like my dad" no longer applies.

3) The prostitute who has convinced herself that there is nothing wrong with what she is doing, until you talk to her 10 or 15 years from now and she shares the guilt, emptiness, and the feelings of being spiritually raped. Why? Because sexual intimacy for a woman is either a beautiful thing associated with love or it is a violation associated with rape. We are not animals. We are human beings with souls and spirits. When women give themselves to men it is a very deep vulnerable thing and they all kid themselves into thinking that they can deal with it. But, in reality they either end up feeling cherished and loved; or they feel used and/or violated. Just ask yourself, would you support and encourage you 23 year old daughter to make her living as a prostitute? If not--ask yourself why not. I will tell you why not. Because you feel compelled to protect your daughter. The prostitute could be your daughter. She is a victim of every man's inability to protect her from herself. You ALL KNOW THAT! You use her and you defile her and yet you would "rescue" your own daughter from ever becoming a victim of that by any other men. YOU DISGUSTING HYPOCRITES!

Oh yes, Deepak Chopra. You are so wise and all knowing..."prostitution is a victimless crime"

I totally agree with you that concentual prostitution is victimless. That is not the issue for me.

He used taxpayer money to pay for his dalliances. That is totally inapropriate and recklace.

His hipocracy is disgusting. Knowing how much pleasure he got from a prostitute, he should not have prosecuted people who did the same.

So Gaby the high probability of his passing along to you whatever disease he acquired from his paid paramour doesn't trouble you at all?

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PEACE: PAZ: SHOLOM: AHIMSA: SALAAM:…, Believe “IT” (ye ECLATi) or Not, “Healing Of Nations & World Peace & many more Good Prophecy is Near! WE are COME!

Prostitution is a "victimless crime"?? What about the family of Gov. Spitzer and others who participate in this horrid act? What about his children? The health of all involved? You are indeed out of your mind, Chopra. Get a clue.

Centuries ago following a scandal similar to Spitzer's, someone asked a wise sage .... what would be the most surprising truth an enlightened being could share with an unenlightened being?

The answer: "The world is exactly as it should be".

The person asking responded: "Then why are you working so hard to change things, to encourage people to live ethically & honestly; yet be less judgmental, more tolerant, forgiving and caring toward one another?"

"That's exactly as it should be."

Oh, for crying out loud, as a married woman for 3o years who has never strayed, I'd rather have my husband have a business transaction with a prostitute than getting an affair on the side.

Grow up holy rollers, sex is just that....a bodily function....what we do in our bedroom is called making love.....quite different.

Then again...I am talking to males who believe in ?????? aaahhhh, whatever you believe in....

BeGone:

You and that crackpot website are getting to be a lot like Concatenated Shell Script So Limited. Give it a rest. No one else cares. So quit with the cut and paste waste of time.

No one cares.
No one cares.
No one cares.

Get a life.
Get a life.
Get a life.

Arminius Better read that scripture in full and the other as well. The purpose of expulsion is not aobut some cosmic game of gotcha but to bring that brother to repentance at which time he should be immediately forgiven. Both scriptures indicate that before forgiveness can occur there must be repentance.

Enough about Spitzer... let's hear more from Deepak about quantum healing and how washing your eyes out with mouth film can cure cataracts.

Did you guys know that allergies are caused by poor digestion?

Chopra is a snake-oil salesman who deals in gibberish, and people eat it up like candy.

I'm surprised that even this forum selects people like Chopra as a panelist.

Arminius, Arminius, Arminius,

But did the historic Jesus really say those words:

Then Peter approaching asked him, "Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?"

Jesus answered, "I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times.

????

Yes he did as per the analyses of many contemporary NT exegetes.

Unlimited Forgiveness: (1a) 1or2?Q: Luke 17:4 = Matt 18:21-22, (1b) Gos. Naz. 15ab; 173- (single attestation from the first stratum, 30-60 CE)

There is no doubt that in some, maybe even in most cases, prostitution is a crime that causes grave harm to both women and men (studies have shown that 20-30% of prostitutes are men) who engage in it. That is why human trafficking, pimping, and illegal organizations profiting from prostitution should be fought and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This is especially true in the case of underage prostitution.

However, we must have the courage to admit as a society that there are cases in which this activity does not create victims. This is when two consenting adults, without any pressure of any kind, decide to engage in this activity for whatever reason. That is why prostitution at this level should be legalized. Prostitutes should be required to be licensed, be screened for STDs, and pay taxes out of their earnings.

Like Deepak says, we shouldn't let our puritanism as a country prevent us from addressing this problem in a rational and pragmatic way. We know how far that got us in the war on drugs. God help me if I may say that legalizing prostitution may even be beneficial to society. In addition to generating revenue for the state, legal prostitution may provide a safer working environment for prostitutes (in a brothel for example or through an escort service) and force them to get regular health checks. Also, this practice could serve as an escape valve for certain people in society who would otherwise have to forego sex all together--think of the person living in a loving but sexless marriage because of whatever reason (illness, disability, loss of interest in sex by a partner, etc.), or even the disabled or plain unattractive individual who cannot find a partner. Who are we to say that these people have no right to express their sexuality?

As for the people who say that Mr. Spitzer's wife and dauhters were victized by this sad episode this is true. But they would not have been hurt and publicly humiliated in such a cruel manner had prostitution been legal. I agree that Mr. Spitzer should be punished for his hypocrisy and stupidity and for breaking the law, but for just the act of paying a prostitute he should answer only to his wife and family.

There should be no morality vis-a-vis sex as long as minors aren't involved, or sex trafficking of unwilling women, or physical abuse.

GaryD:

I don't quote scripture often here, but I must do so now in answer to your comment about casting out a brother:

Then Peter approaching asked him, "Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
Jesus answered, "I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times.
- - Matthew 18, 21-22

Arminius

Lily the same scriptures also tell us to test every spirit and cast out the immoral brother from among us how then do we do this if we cannot or will not make judgments?

Possum if you have the owners permission to enter it is not then breaking and entering. What you do not know about things legal has filled dozens of texts and several dozen pages of municipal ordinances.

I agree with Deepak on this issue. We all know that prostitution has been around for ages. Why we are so quick to critize others for sins that we have in some fashion or another committed ourselves is beyond me. This man made a grevious error in judgement and he will pay for it dearly. I can only hope that he will be able to pick up his life and that his family will somehow forgive him. I do feel bad for his wife though. She obviously has class and has handled this situation superbly.

Favorite Scripture...

Judge not and ye shall not be judged; condemn not and ye shall not be condemned; forgive and ye shall be forgiven…
Luke 6:38

Many of us exist between two worlds ~
http://lilyseymour.blogspot.com/

While I agree with your overall conclusion, prostitution is absolutely not a victimless crime as long as the feminization of poverty continues to exist worldwide. Prostitution is a tragic crime of men against economically disempowered women, and the writer's inability to see this is an example that he is also blind - and a darkness which he may, in the future, have the ability to shed light on.

Thank you for posting an article with elements of "FAITH".
Ms. Quinn ( the adulteress) and other sinners are throwing venom on the victim.

How much good have the moral police ever done? Perhaps Dee is not familiar with the abolitionist movement. For starters. I was going to list so many other examples but simply realizing I had to remind DeeDee about slavery made me shake my head and realize I can't do what his teachers or parents failed to do. Start doing some reading DeeChop - or demand your money back from whatever college you attended.

Man's heart is prone to evil from our birth, and as Spitzer demonstrates quite vividly, the finest education in the world few have the privilege of receiving, does not replace the growth of a human being's spirituality. We all have murdered, committed adultery, stolen, etc., if only in our hearts; but have we quieted our urges, have we overcome adversity with a humbled heart, have we bettered ourselves and those around us???

We are all Spitzers, and I believe a lot of people could be just as smart if they had such an education as he did, and I know from experience that a lot of us can be just as dumb . . .

But I think I have at least learned to not call a pot-smoker who is bothering nobody while taking a bong hit in her/his living room an ungodly sinner who should be imprisoned as I sit in my iving room taking a bonghit . . .

But of course our Lord called the green herb good while not taking too kindly of an attitude towards adulterers, prostitute-frequenters, and hypocrites!

Peace

I agree with Deepak Chopra in his warning about being self rightious, and all this gleeful delight in another person's shame and pain is disgusting to me, but I disagree that prostitution is a victimless crime, or that morality should not be policed. Isn't the law against killing another person a moral law? All laws are 'moral' laws. Those who claim that sex is limited to the impact it has on the individuals involved are making an error. Sex was never regarded as lightly as sneezing in Polynesia, Margaret Mead's research has been shown to be false. Sex is bonding behavior, and people fall deeply in love with each other, marry and have children, and have always done so. To pretend that sex can be regarded as a harmless recreational activity is to deny the feelings and the very humanity of the people involved. I feel sorry for the person who claims that when sex is not dirty, it is not nearly as attractive. They have obviously never known the ecstasy of being passionately in love with a person you can totally trust not to betray you. To deny the reality of this experience sounds like sour grapes to me, and to not even have that as an ideal is really sad.

BGone sez:

"Where sex is not sinful it's not nearly as attractive."

Woody Allen was once asked if sex was dirty. His reply: "It is when it's done right."

Oh puh-leaze I'm not even sure prostitution should be a felony though being a p-mp probably should be.

You cheat on your wife you make her a victim and you risk giving her whatever diseases you pick up in the process. In Spitzer's case its more about the lying than the sex in any case. We've grown far to use to lying politicians in this country and it's high time at least a few of them were held accountable for it and that's true on both sides of the aisle.

GaryD:
"Prostitution is no more a victimless crime than breaking and entering"
the only difference between prostitution and other forms of adult consensual sex is that money changes hands. Are you implying that since the 'victims' you pointed out also exist in not-paid-for-sex that sex with anyone other than your wife should also be felonies?
and:
Breaking and entering is victimless, and in fact not even a crime if you have the owner's permission to break and enter.

You make some good points, but I think you're off base on a number of others. The Law of the Harvest is universal, and Mr. Spitzer is an example of the negative side of that equation. Living with urges that may not conform to cultural, religious, and societal standards is part of the human condition. I agree with you that we all need to learn to face the shadow within. I also think that there's nothing wrong with re-examining our puritanical roots. However, I don't see that value system disappearing any time soon. We value those roots for good reason: they've served us well, and I would even argue that they're responsible, in many ways, for the foundation of one of history's greatest societies. Prostitution isn't a victimless crime, much less a noble profession. Those *involved* are the victims: the perpetrators, their families, and society in general suffer from the outcomes of this behavior. We, as a nation, value human life, and its attendant potential. These laws affirm the high esteem we hold for all people.

Very well said. There is an element I think you're not taking into account, the psychology of it all.

Where sex is not sinful it's not nearly as attractive. There are societies that have existed where sex has the same significance as sneezing, old Polynesia for example. And, they suffered none of the slings and arrows brought about by folks sticking their noses into other folk's lives.

I hardly heard of Spitzer to recognize him before this. What I know of him comes from his enemies who populate Wall Street. And what they have to say, well, "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy." I can take a hint.

He didn't go to bed a nice guy and wake up next morning a bad person. He must have gone bad before he got caught being bad. That leads us to the ominous question -how many more Spitzers are there out there? Witch hunts are fun.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul tells us all about the witch's God. The answer is: the Devil makes them do that. The question is: will people ever wake up? Not so far. And if they do they will take the stink off sex, consenting adults only of course and a lot of the fun out of witch hunting.

Thank God Baptists never ever have sex with the next wife before the divorce is final else there wouldn't be any room in the newspaper for the news.

Why do they say sex is making love anyhow? Does Spitzer really love her or was he just out for a good time sinning? Maybe if it wasn't a sin he wouldn't have done it -too much like a chore? The $4,300 fee is enough to stop a lot, most I expect of those looking to break God's law just for fun.

I find Mr. Choprah's insights thought provoking. We are all vulnerable to dark temptations.We shouldn't take much pleasure in Spitzers failures as we all ' fall short in the eyes of God' I am wondering if anything " good' can come out of this Shakepearian tragedy or will it just fuel more cynicism about politicians who are real people with real failings like regular folks.By mocking Spitzer we reveal ourselves to be hypocrites just like him. As a society we love to build up larger than life heroes and then love even more to knock them down to size when they inevitably fail.Istead as Mr. Chopra says we should look at our own dark sides and that of our nation and see what might be learned from this sad tale.

Hmmm, what was Mr. Spitzer's biggest mistake??

He did not become a Muslim. Had he, he could have declared his call girls his other wives and been above the law at least in the Islamic world.

We were already at war with Iraq unless you are gullible enough to believe that Clinton and Blair were dropping bouquets rather than Bombs in Iraq's no fly zones during Clinton's second term.

Is going to war on a false pretext and ultimately leading to the death of thousands of American soldiers and a million civilians (from a "foreign" country nevertheless) a bigger crime or having sex with a prostitute a bigger crime? Just wondering...

Give me a break Prostitution is no more a victimless crime than breaking and entering. Who were the victims? His wife, the people of New York and ultimately governor Spitzer himself.