All Comments (217)

I find it interesting that Mr. Saperstein ends his salvo here by celebrating the role of Jews in mobilizing international efforts in Kosovo, Bosnia and Darfur. This is precisely the kind of response that Ghandi asserts to be the appropriate one, on the part of the Jews, given the wounds of the Jewish holocaust, as opposed to the hyper- militarized states of Israel and America.

I agree with Ghandi's assertions that Israel needs to reckon with its own violent policies in the face of a rising tide of international violence. And I agree with Arun Ghandi that Israel and the United States' solution of domination (whether pre-emptive or in response) cannot bring any kind of solution. And since these two players are by far the most powerful players in the world equation (and precisely because of the Jewish holocaust experience), force and domination should be their absolute last strategic aim and policy, not their preferred posture.

When I read Ghandi's words, I thought about two American examples of abominable cruelty that should be undeniably recognized as on par with the Jewish holocaust: the American slave trade and the slaughter and displacement of American indian populations. Some like to argue that these latter examples did not involve any similar attempt at wholesale extermination. Funnily enough, this argument, itself, smacks of racism.

Mr. Saperstein says, "the Holocaust was... rooted in the pseudo-scientific racialism that swept Europe for 100 years, which flourished in the fertile field of bigotry and dehumanization of the Jews that was a tragic manifestation of Christian anti-Semitism for two millennia." Does he think that this same "pseudo-scientific racialism" that was applied to Jews was not applied to other "races"? Vogue terms such as "savage" and "primitive" were often applied to foster the dehumanization of people who were deemed "less than human," and who, unlike the Jews, could never, under any circumstances, pass for white. And it is this latter fact, by the way, that may account for some of the gross disparity in hardships experienced by Jews, Black Americans and American Indians in the world today.

One of the things that I believe Ghandi was trying to say, and which gets swept under the rug by the one-sided public rebukes that his remarks elicited, is this: while the Jewish identity is indeed scarred by immense suffering, Jews DO NOT, contrary to popular opinion, have a corner on the market of depredation and despair. And precisely because of the high visibilty of the Jewish cause, symbolized by the example and behavior of the state of Israel, the Jewish people should be tireless champions of non-violence. But instead, much like the current US president, Israel's rhetoric of diplomacy rings hollow next to the violent policies and actions, as well as the justifications for the same, that continue to dictate events on the ground.

I find it curious that such a one-sided echo chamber can turn what, to any clear-thinking individual, was an unpopular but well-argued position, into an ant-semitic tirade. Curious because of the result: that noone need adress the crux of the argument.

I believe that Gandhi, the elder, was practicing excessive faith in his own methods rather than anti-semitism when he argued that nonviolence would have beaten Nazism.

Rabbi Saperstein, as so often, is correct when he argues that nonviolence actually has its limits. He also has proven, over many decades, that he does not support the excesses of Israel's practices.

This point can be made more effectively without bringing gratuitous labels of bigotry to the table, in my opinion.

Bill, OK let me get this straight, you think that Israel should continue to supply people who have sworn to destroy them and aid those who would kill them?

It is interesting to note that Israel does supply food and fuel to Gaza. You know Gaza, that place where the democratically elected government of Hamas calls for the murder of all Jews? So do you expect that the English should have supplied the Germans during the war? Yet, Israel still sends them food and electricity.

As to fuel, funny, the Palies still have enough for their rockets...

As to the idea that the Israelis are the terrorists, you are just insane. Go back to the loony bin.

As to the idea that the Israel lobby is the largest in the world, again son, you need to lay off the drugs. The Saudis have a vastly bigger lobby. So does the auto industry, the credit industry, the farm lobby and the tabbacco lobby - to name just a few of the lobbies that are vastly bigger.

Bill, OK let me get this straight, you think that Israel should continue to supply people who have sworn to destroy them and aid those who would kill them?

It is interesting to note that Israel does supply food and fuel to Gaza. You know Gaza, that place where the democratically elected government of Hamas calls for the murder of all Jews? So do you expect that the English should have supplied the Germans during the war? Yet, Israel still sends them food and electricity.

As to fuel, funny, the Palies still have enough for their rockets...

As to the idea that the Israelis are the terrorists, you are just insane. Go back to the loony bin.

As to the idea that the Israel lobby is the largest in the world, again son, you need to lay off the drugs. The Saudis have a vastly bigger lobby. So does the auto industry, the credit industry, the farm lobby and the tabbacco lobby - to name just a few of the lobbies that are vastly bigger.

I think it outrageous to go after Gandhi, when his main thesis is absolutely correct. He simply states what responsible Israelis also think (http://www.btselem.org/English/About_BTselem/index.asp)
Israel is the most violent force in the middle East, and Israel, and its terror against Palestinians has been the cause of most Islamic response against the West, mainly for our support of them.
We decry the Palestinian terrorist killings of innocent Israelis while totally ignoring the far greater number of women and children killed indiscriminately by the Israelis.
There is about a factor of four to one of deaths in every age group where Israel has killed Palestinians versus Palestinians killing those in Israel.
And your response comes at the time that Israel is brutally cutting off food, fuel and everything else to a million or more Palestinians.
The Jewish lobby in this country is the most powerful lobby in the world.
All someone has to do is point out facts, and if they reflect unfavorably on Israel, they all yell antisemitism. What BS!
I am a lifelong liberal democrat, who has always supported Israel---but am getting fed up with them conducting terror, while we get the retribution, because it is our money and our military equipment being used by Israel to kill Muslims.
There is an organization in Israel, of Israelis that fully agrees with the statements that I have made, and they maintain a record of death rates at the hands of Israel vrs. Palestinians. You should look at those numbers. (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories)

Grant and Annonymous,

Do you two come from another planet? Really? Where do you get your stuff from? Radio Islam? Stormfront?

First off, most of those UN resolutions call for either peace, recognition of Israel or both. Since the Arabs and Iran refuse to do that, there is no deal and never was one.

Second off, there is a giant difference between a binding security council resolution and something pushed through the General Assembly by the Muslim Block for propaganda purposes.

Anon, the brave poster, who may just have to post as me again...

95% are Khazars? Are you insane? Are you on drugs? What is wrong with you? History has shown this? What jihadist/neo-nazi sources are you reading? Now if you want to talk about a people that do not exist as a people, try the Palistinians...

Remeber when they were Jordanians and Egyptians? That was not so long ago. Like 1967 - imbecile.

Genocide? You ARE a delusional madman... Genocide is the murder of an entire people. What is wrong with you? Genocide like Darfur? Like what happened to the Native Americans? That is genocide. It seems that the Palistinian population keeps growing... Genocide is a very serious word. It should not be used by delusional morons for cheap shots in a silly blog.

Grant and Annonymous,

Do you two come from another planet? Really? Where do you get your stuff from.

First off, most of those UN resolutions call for either peace, recognition of Israel or both. Since the Arabs and Iran refuse to do that, there is no deal and never was one.

Second off, there is a giant difference between a binding security council resolution and something pushed through the General Assembly by the Muslim Block for propaganda purposes.

Anon, the brave poster, who may just have to post as me again...

95% are Khazars? Are you insane? Are you on drugs? What is wrong with you? History has shown this? What jihadist/neo-nazi sources are you reading? Now if you want to talk about a people that do not exist as a people, try the Palistinians...

Remeber when they were Jordanians and Egyptians? That was not so long ago. Like 1967 - imbecile.

Genocide? You ARE a delusional madman... Genocide is the murder of an entire people. What is wrong with you? Genocide like Darfur? Like what happened to the Native Americans? That is genocide. It seems that the Palistinian population keeps growing... Genocide is a very serious word. It should not be used by delusional morons for cheap shots in a silly blog.

I hear a lot of phrases bandied about -"Israel's right to exist" and "Israel's right to defend itself." The U.S.- in its massive state of debt- has been giving $30 billion (probably more) to a population less than that of Massachusetts. Israel has plenty of high-tech military crap that the U.S. gave them and they can destroy the entire ME with their nukes. Palestine has rocks and unguided, shoddy rockets.
What about the Palestinians' right to exist and defend themselves? Or the right to return to the lands their ancestors had farmed peacefully for centuries? History shows that 95% of today's Jews are descendents of the Khazars, a violent group that converted to Juadism and never touched foot in present Israel or anywhere near it.
These phrases about Israel's "rights" are an affront to thinking people who can't help but be disgusted by the genocide occuring in the occupied territories, with the blessing of the U.S. government.
Before you blindly support Israel's right to exist, try reading Jack Bernstein's book about being an American Jew in Israel.

The essence is Israels right to exist.

However, by not obeying 70 UN Declarations, they have broken the rules. Where is the red card?

Send them off ref. They just lost their right to exist.

Mr. David Saperstein,

I fully support your views about the need for the Jews to protect themselves from hostile Arab neighbors. What you say about the moral blind spots of Gandhi's thinking is so true. Unfortunately this muddled thinking of the likes of Mr. Arun Gandhi is what continues to be used for policy making in India and Hindus are the victims of these policies. How can you make peace with someone who has sworn to eliminate you? The Hindus too suffered events like the holocaust, but hardly gets mentioned as it is not politically correct or expedient. Gandhi's non violence is a weak man's non violence and not one that comes from a position of strength.

EARTH TO JOE! EARTH TO JOE!

You are not the only Joe in the world. In fact, there are THOUSANDS of men named JOE. There are lots of us, and we are everywhere. Sometimes we are called Joesph. Sometimes, we go by Joey. And, sometimes we are just called Joe. Heck, there's even something called a cup of Joe. It was named for Josephus Daniels, the former Secretary of the Navy. But don't worry, Joe, a cup of Joe contains only a small amount of actual Joe. So, climb down from Mount Olympus, try to humble yourself for a moment, and face the reality that your name is not unique.

LONG LIVE ISRAEL! And, long live the Joes!

I am astonished at the persistence of my alter self.
Another post that I did NOT write. Is the one that starts.

"To those of you who disparage Israel, I would like you to all take note of the recent benevolence that the country extended to the completely unworthy Hammies and Palis..."

Not my words. I did not write that. However, I would like to ask the person who writes in my name exactly why he thinks it is OK for Hamas and the other terror groups, who are widely supported by the Palestinians, to launch rocket attacks every day on civilians in Israel. If not trying to shut them down their borders to stem the flow of munitions, perhaps you would prefer an incursion? Perhaps you would like to see a blood bath?

What planet are you from? Actually, it does not matter. The child has gotten away with much. He feels empowered by doing this, which no doubt helps comfort his issues with some deep seated inferiority complex.

One must ask, why would someone do this? First, he posts as anonymous, then as a couple of other names (because he wants to show that others agree with him, poor fellow is not so alone!) and finally, he likes to post under my name.

He isn't very bright. He actually believes he is proving something. Given that he has made anti gay remarks as well, I imagine that his nonsense all stems from frustrated sexuality. He must feel his manhood is very lacking. Of course, from his antics, it is clear that his virtue certainly is.

It is possible that his lack of social grace comes from bad parenting. Perhaps his father abandoned him, leaving him with no proper male role model. Perhaps his mother was a prostitute and his father would be one of fifty candidates. Actually, any number of things in early childhood could cause someone to behave like this. But at the end of the day, we are dealing with someone who is very broken inside and very weak. Perhaps, he is that awkward guy that no woman will even take to bed out of mercy. Perhaps he was just that smelly pimply kid that the more popular boys beat up - and he never got over it. Perhaps he just has malfunctioning or abnormally small genitals and this is his way of compensating.

But what is striking is that he can not stand for himself. A few posts up he writes some craziness that he was baiting me. It is interesting. I mean does he really think that many people are still reading this thread? You can ask what does the little fellow have to gain?

That gives the answer as to his mental state. He actually feels that he is in a fight - and that somehow he is winning it. He has fallen so low, that this is what he hopes for as a "victory."

Amazing. Given that this is the case, Alter Joe, I feel for you little "man." I'll let you "win" this one. no doubt it will be the only "victory" in your sorry and pathetic existence.

To those of you who disparage Israel, I would like you to all take note of the recent benevolence that the country extended to the completely unworthy Hammies and Palis. After restricting fuel, food and medical supplies to teach them a lesson in obedience, the extremely charitable Israelis sent in some necessary supplies.

Yes, some innocent babies, children, and old people died because of thew recent blockade, but fewer hammies and palis will die now that the rebellious ones have learned their lesson and been brought to heel. So, all you Jew-haters and Jew-baiters can quit complaining.

Just for the record, I did *not* write the post that says:

"If you look at the response to Gandhi's statements which in itself are all true, you will see how our society has already fallen to the sympathy of the Jewish community."

That would be the work of an extremely immature person who believes he is being clever by writing in my name. He has already had about ten of his fake posts pulled. Alas, the net is full of crazies. I'm sure that someone thinks his little cyber-jihad is cute.

So, if you see an anti Israel, anti Jewish post, it isn't mine. It is merely the rantings of an unpleasant child with no manners.

Just for the record, I did *not* write the post that says:

"If you look at the response to Gandhi's statements which in itself are all true, you will see how our society has already fallen to the sympathy of the Jewish community."

That would be the work of an extremely immature person who believes he is being clever by writing in my name. He has already had about ten of his fake posts pulled. Alas, the net is full of crazies. I'm sure that someone thinks his little cyber-jihad is cute.

So, if you see an anti Israel, anti Jewish post, it isn't mine. It is merely the rantings of an unpleasant child with no manners.

I think that free speech comes with problems and Mr. Arun Gandhi may loose his tenure.

The truth is that Tel Aviv would one day have to grant Political Rights to the occupied Palestinians. That is a slow realization sinking into Tel Aviv.

The Israel-Palestinian issue would be swamped under the wave of globalization.

I request the author to note this...

Indians were also ruthlessly tortured under the British (read Jallianwala Bagh for an example).

Does that mean we are still hung up on it? IMHO, Indians are the biggest investors in UK. We would possibly end up buying Jaguar and Land Rover - some British iconic brands...

Let go of hatred... Remember what Buddha said: Nothing in the world is constant, everything is changing. It is this denial of impermanence that is the problem of Tel Aviv. And by extension the Jewish Community.

Altar Joe:

Yes, I did! And commented on it in two posts. But since you obviously didn't read those, we're not really having a conversation here so I should probably ignore you.

If you look at the response to Gandhi's statements which in itself are all true, you will see how our society has already fallen to the sympathy of the Jewish community. When do we ever hear about Burma now, after the hype, it has disappeared, or Kenya and other nations with ethical problems. The Jewish community has the capital to create a lot of attention and our society has fallen at their feet and do their every whim, help supply us to fight Pakistan, OK we'll send you the weapons by the end of the week.

Altar Joe:

What about the abuses the Palestinians inflict on themselves? Electing criminal leadership that even has made the Saudis recoil. I bet the majority of Gazans wish the Israelis would come back. In fact I read an Arab journalist in an Arab paper who said as much. At least there would be employment and order then. If I find that article from the Arab journalist will you say "Altar Joe sorry he call Joe bad names." ? Will you give yourself a hand if Iran, not Israel, starts WWIII? All you have is ad hominem attacks. You are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. You can't really answer the questions posed by Joe three days ago.

Kelev Ra

Believe it or don't, I saw the movie and rather liked it.

But Bad Dog in Hebrew would be a cool handle in any case.

And I have read a lot from and about Ayaan Ali.

It was great chatting with you and I really hope to see you on the boards here in future.

If you read them with any regularity, you will find that almost every time there is a Jewish article at all, all manner of truly awful people come out of the woodwork.

It was two days ago that I decided to actually jump in because I was tired of them.

Be well my friend!

Joe

Hey, my attack on the alter poser was expunged!! Shows how unproductive anger is.
Joe, nobody mentioned, much less answered your questions of nearly three days ago so its fair to say you won the debate. Bad news: that's faint praise here.

Kelevra is a reference to "Lucky Number Slevin", a kick-%ss film starring the great Ben Kingsley.
Morgan Freeman and Bruce Willis were good too. Kelevra's mentor is Mr. Goodkat! I already gave away too much. The film is about rivaling black and Jewish mobsters.

Check out the Arab women dissidents I mentioned in a post above, and also Brigette Gabriel and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. You probably are already familiar with them.
They are amazing! There is hope.
Muslims, CAIR, the Post's guy Patel love to criticize/minimize Ayaan Ali, as if its not bad enough that she was mutilated by Muslims.

Must work now!

Thank you Post. It seems that someone noticed some of what was going on here.

Hello, Kelev Ra

This is the actual Joe. I hope you understand why I became so strident earlier. It is interesting that the Post rules are very clear, right at the top of the page about posting in other's names.

Then again, the "monitors" let posts that call Jews cockroaches and deny the holocaust - or worse, gloat about it stay up also. The reality is that this place is full of degenerates and the Post does not care.

For the record, I have been very much enjoying our chat. In some sense, I suppose you should be flattered that he is putting homosexual slurs on you as well. I mean, to a mind as tiny as his trying to call someone gay is a giant insult.

*****

As to my "alter poser" and apparently haha and Kelev's "alter poser."

Also for the record, you truly are an insane loser. I mean you really are a loser. A complete and utter failure in life. You have no words of your own? You have no thoughts of your own? Do you think you are fooling anyone?

Think about it for a moment, it is likely that there are at most 10 people following this thread anymore. I am really only here anymore to talk to Kelev Ra, do you think either of us is impressed by your antics?

Tell you what, you really do fight like what would be expected though. You cringe and cower and whine. You think silly, underhanded tricks are clever. You spew bile at others while still hiding and you contribute nothing. Yet, you can not stand on your own. How very, very HAMAS of you. And like them, you ain't nothing.

Why is there no fake hahaha? He feels left out!

Kelev,

I'm sure you realise that I did not write the previous post. I think we can completely establish that "Alter Joe's" motives are not very nice.

Ohh and to whomever is posting in my name, do you really think you are impressing anyone?

Your bravery is impressive!

Kelev,

I'm sure you realise that I did not write the previous post. I think we can completely establish that "Alter Joe's" motives are not very nice.

Kelev,

I hear your point entirely. I was very honest that I have absolutely no love of the NeoCons, but the New Left is no better. I see the two groups as a one two punch for this nation.

The Neocons are breaking it, and the "NeoPinks" will not buy it. The last thing you need to do is trash the economy and weaken your military in the course of destabilising whole regions, only to be followed by delusional self haters who want you to loose.

I can not stomach the Republicans. I still can not face people who push for things like ID and cutting taxes in the middle of a two-front war, while turning a blind eye to the social needs of Americans who aren't in the upper class or pressing enviromental concerns. While we are at it I think the notion that somehow they are the fiscally responsible ones is one of the greatest cons in history. They are terrible for the economy and have been for years.

On the other hand, I can not stomach the near suicidal surrender reflex aspect of the Leftists coupled with their virulent naivete. The issue is, if you read these boards long enough, they are not rooting for peace at all. They actually want to see parts of the West crumble - starting with Israel. They actually want nuclear weapons in the hands of regimes like Iran and have a deluded rationalization that another cold war would be a good thing.

Both sides are equally callous and uncaring and hypocritical. They just point their malice at different targets.

I have never been more discouraged in an election.

I will almost certainly pinch my nose and vote Democratic, but that is only because I see it as the lesser of evils. I can only pray that the Neopinks don't end up swaying the dems as badly as the neocons gained control of the Republicans.

Joe:

"Consider the blind eye that the New Left, just as obnoxious and foolish as the Neo-cons, turns to so many things that are completely counter-intuitive.
Their romance with Islam is only understandable to me in this context. If you have a better hypothesis, I would sincerely love to hear it."

Very good point. I can think of specific people in my life who this applies to.

I'm turning away from left and now consider myself independent. I can't rule out voting for a republican. Hell, I voted for Connie Morella! The fact that universities have become bastions of Israel bashing has had quite an effect on me. I've heard of J students practically apologizing for themselves!

See my last post about religious basis for Arab/Muslim OCID (Obsessive-Compulsive Israel Disorder).

Not sure about the alter-Joe's motivation.

Well, you know you've hit a nerve with the children when all they can do is type your name and then something silly.

Do you kids really think that anyone will believe that I am actually typing something for a feminine hygene product commercial?

Amazing that you would even try to do this.

Rather then typing my name and some nonsense, how about you answer my questions?

Kelev man, go easy on Joe, he has every right to call these bee-atchs whatever he wnats.

They say all sorts of sh!t and he kept cool for a long time. If the man needs to vent, he needs to vent.

Besides, I like watching bee-atchs get pwned.

Another set of thoughts about the extreme left. The hatred of white people who love their own culture and religion runs incredibly deep.

Consider the blind eye that the New Left, just as obnoxious and foolish as the Neo-cons, turns to so many things that are completely counter-intuitive.
Their romance with Islam is only understandable to me in this context. If you have a better hypothesis, I would sincerely love to hear it.

For example:

You would expect a leftist to be for womens' rights, yet the treatment of women in Islamic nations is horrific. Well beyond the Hijab and a near pathological fear of feminine sexuality, you have nations that sentence rape victims to public lashings or worse.

You would expect a leftist to be opposed to capital punishment, dismemberment and flogging - let alone brutal public execution by medieval means.

You would expect a leftist to be for free speech and the right to criticize religion. In fact you would expect the far left to be mistrustful of religious fanaticism in general, yet not one peep about the obscene reaction to the Mohammed cartoons, or for that matter the naming of a teddy bear.

You would expect a leftist to be opposed to genocide, I have yet to hear the Arabist left make a peep about Darfur.

You would expect the left - and all sane people to be opposed to nuclear proliferation, yet the argument seems to be "it's unfair that the Arabs don't have nukes too..." And let's be real, Islamics and nukes are a very, very scary combination. They are one set who might happily use them.

The list could be longer, but I'm sure that you see my point. It is baffling to me how this is.
Again the only explanation I can offer is that the left hates the western civilisation that birthed it so much, that they would rather see barbarians take it apart then stick up for their own supposed values.

Ok then we will talk seriously. There is a magnifying glass for several reasons.

For the extreme left, the Jewish state is everything that they can not fathom. The idea of white people who actually do not hate their own culture and religion being successful is offensive to them and it disrupts their idea of how the universe should work. If you start from the notion that you hate Western Culture, then of necessity, you must hate the Jews who provided the basis for so much of it.

Also, for many it is even more simple than that. They have the mental equation that if America does it, it must be evil, and they know that it is American policy to stand with Israel.

For the Arabs you need to look at the nature of an honor/shame society. The first sin that the Jews committed was having something that they wanted, i.e. a piece of land in a region that the Arabs wanted to dominate now that the Turks and the Europeans were no longer in power. 1948 was as much about a land grab on the part of the Arab states as hatred of Jews. The second sin they committed was that they are not Muslim, and it very much rankles the Muslim mind to think of even an inch of land which was once dominated by Muslim law becoming something else (like a democratic state in the hands of it's true owners). Remember that the 48 partition was a two state solution, the Jews got land that they ALREADY had. The Arabs said no to that. But the true sin of Israel in the minds of the Arabs, is that after five coordinated attempts to wipe out Israel, with calls to kill all the Jews, the Israelis refused to die, and won the wars. For that, the Arabs can never forgive.

I'm not interested in name-calling, I'd just like someone to please tell me why there is such a magnifying glass on Israel when there are far more horrifying things going on in the world than whats happening in Israel?

Don't attack a man, attack his argument.

An Israeli man (presumably secular) once told me he didn't give a damn about Jerusalem, they could have it if they wanted peace... but they don't want peace.

Or of course, Chip may be a centenarian like Ender... At which point, we are dealing with a middle class child in some dorm room.

Perhaps, he wrote a term paper (or even a manifesto!) on post 9-11 paranoia... His ranting has almost the correct tone to it. But, for my money I'm still leaning towards washed out hippie.

In any case, he is an amusing troll.

Thanks, Rob Roy, Kelev Ra and Voice and Hahaha.

Kelev,

Just looking at the writing style though it is likely that "Chip" is likely to be Frank or Red or both. He must be a very lonely and unimaginative cyber terror apologist.

I was thinking about his writing to me about being a post 9-11 person so that I can not trust. I'm actually older than he thinks but, that really doesn't matter. My point is, how can he think the previous Cold War period was less paranoid? I think we are dealing with an aging hippie who honestly just doesn't remember the Sixties - or the Seventies for that matter.

It is so sad to see the effects of long term drug abuse.

Anonymous:

And you're a dootiehead. Blah, blah, blah. You're boring. Whats your point? Did you address mine? Did you pore over jimena.org? Some Israelis committed atrocities, and therefore...? What? Because for every evil deed committed by some Israelis I can give you ten committed by Palis. "Anonymous", no, too many syllables, do you mind if I call you Chip? Chip, I have a question thats absolutely killing me. Whats with the Arab/Muslims' frightening obsession with Israel anyway? It's, like, in their DNA now. Not exactly an admirable characteristic. Israel this, Israel that. Because I think the Arab/Muslim nations have things they need to be a lot more gravely concerned about than Israel. Like, oh, I don't know, not utilizing the talents of half of their population. Lack of freedom. Drastic self-reformation. Is it really about the Palestinians? Because the Arabs/muslims treat themselves pretty dismally, and on a much larger scale than whats happening in Israel. I'm afraid they'd have to admit that. Why don't you "goggle" (as you say) "Hama massacre" ? Anyway, could I posit that the poisonous Koran has indoctrinated Arabs/Muslims with the idea that kafirs, especially Jews, as equal citizens in their midst, in their "empire", is unthinkable? Could that be the cause of that energy-consuming Israel obsession? One more thing: do you see "belligerent" Israel waging war with Egypt? No? What about Jordan? Are you beginning to see a pattern? Those countries have peace treaties with Israel. Chipster, here's the point: as soon as Arabs/Muslims change their attitudes, the Palestinian issue will resolve itself.
Now Chip, kelev ra not come out to play no more if Chip call kelev ra bad names!

ok dad, I won't make fun of the special kids on the special bus...

To Hahaha

It is wrong of you to say what you said. You are obviously a very disturbed and possibly drunk young man.

Your mother should have told you that it is rude to mock idiots. It is not their fault that they are stupid, and it hurts their feelings.

Peace out!

Good comment Rob,

Anonymous, Ender, Mohammed, Frank, Thopaine

It is a totally f'd up "game strategy" (sorry Joe, I don't know the math, but I know a fake when I see one too!) of the Islamofascists around the world to get their @sses kicked - wow one of him and several of you - and then go whining. Dude, you punks then try to turn what you do around and blame everyone else but yourself.

You got made into bee-atchs...

Answer the man's questions bee-atch!

I was watching this thread. It was awesome to see you get b-slapped.

Dude, I nearly peed myself laughing.

Hey anonymous, You mean like the massacre at Jennin that never happened?

Thanks Joe for putting the fight to these idiots.

REAL Americans know who their friends are, and we also know who supports our enemies.

Anonymous - courageous of you to share your name!

It's funny that you were asked many thought provoking questions, yet all you can do is bray like a jack@ss. I would like your answer to some of those. You were challenged multiple times and you chickened out.

Also,

before you rant about my religion check my tag,

Your claims to know history have been noted.

Joe and Kevlar, please just read about the 1956 Massacre at Kafr Kasem. I suspect you already Goggled it, and that's why you will not address it. Joe is nothing but a poor man's Bill Kristol, and Kavlar is his hapless lapdog.

Thanks Kelev Ra, It's nice to see another bad dog.

Seriously though, I understand that I will not win against those who can not face logic. I am not writing here to convince them of anything, and the second that they start flipping out and refusing to answer anything they simply show that they have nothing.

And that is the point. There are some, some small number, of those who might be reading this who need to see that the lies and propaganda of those who apologise for the terrorists does not go unchallenged.

Also, until I get bored with it, I do enjoy pointing out their silly lies and frauds. That part is cruel I admit.

Ohhh and I am not a college kid anymore. Haven't been for some time. But that said, please mr anonymous, answer a question of mine, just one of them...

Anonymous:

Ranting doesn't make your statements more compelling. I'm not a mindless sycophant, the guy just happens to be right. Convince me otherwise. Answer his questions. Kafr Kasem is an anomaly compared with what happens every day, every hour in the Arab/Moslem world. Talking about massacres, go enlighten yourself and look at http://www.jimena.org/ Maybe your hand-wringing is selective.

Thanks for the pity.
I don't fear Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan, or the posters at http://arabsforisrael.com/ and I've been to Jordan and the Gaza Strip and I know most Arabs just want to get by, just like everyone else. Don't put words into my mouth.
See, no abusive words. I don't want to bust an artery, like you.

Thanks Kelev Ra, It's nice to see another bad dog.

Seriously though, I understand that I will not win against those who can not face logic. I am not writing here to convince them of anything, and the second that they start flipping out and refusing to answer anything they simply show that they have nothing.

And that is the point. There are some, some small number, of those who might be reading this who need to see that the lies and propaganda of those who apologise for the terrorists does not go unchallenged.

Also, until I get bored with it, I do enjoy pointing out their silly lies and frauds. That part is cruel I admit.

Kelvra, Joe doesn't listen. He only preaches a sermon of hate, and you are nothing more than a mindless sycophant.

Kevlra, do you know about the Massacre at Kafr Kasem? No? Well, that doesn't surprise me.

Whatever.

Try to enjoy your life of hatred, distrust, and insecurity. Like Joe, did you come of age in the post-911 age? Did you grow up knowing nothing but fear. Ah, the good old days when the only thing we had to fear was fear. Now, fear all we get from people like noecons, the Bush people and people like you. Fear is what sustains you, and fear is what will destroy you. People like Joe and Bush know that people are more easily moved by fear than logic.

I actually pity both of you. Go ahead, live in fear. Raise whatever children you have someday in fear. Live in constant fear, and watch out for anyone named Mohamed or Omar or Moyed. But, just remember that when you live in fear Osama bin Laden wins.

Anonymous:

Ah yes, the ad hominem attack. Everything but an answer to his questions.

Joe:

You're obviously extremely bright. Bright enough to know the force of logic is probably wasted here. It is very amusing nobody has attempted to answer your excellent questions (I sent them to my brother!). Maybe you should post them again.
Keep up the good work - but the stridency is probably counterproductive.

You seem to be carrying water for the Bush people spouting off about fascists, but it appears you don't really understand the concept.

I know history, Joe. You do not. You're just another self-deluded racist running off at the mouth. I'm guessing you're somewhere between the ages of 20 and 25, maybe you're in college or just graduated, and you feel supremely educated. Joe, get a few years on you, get some more experience, and gain some more wisdom. (And read up on the 1956 Kafr Kasem Massacre.) You seem to have facts but no context, and your arguments are simplistic and formulaic. It's easy to scream "Let's go get them" when you have nothing to lose and you're not willing to contribute.

We've heard this king of crap for seven years (since you were maybe in middle school), and we're tired of it. We're tired of stupid wars and pointless deaths. We're tired of you, Joe.

Dear brave anonymous,

I am no fan of the Bush administration. That may surprise you, but it is true. You will not find much defence of his policies from me. Now that said, supporting our ally Israel has been American policy since long before Bush.

As to examples of Fascism, dear anonymous, I was making a rather serious historical point. You see in the fourties, ther were these folks called America First! Did you ever hear of them? They were the extreme right wing set that said let Hitler and Japan eat everyone else, it is not our problem. They also had a strange confluence with the extreme left - who thought that all wars - even one against fascists should not be fought.

History repeats itself partially because people like you would rather spout one liners then learn history.

Joe, if you'd like to see examples of fascism closer to home look no further than the Bush Administration.

And one other thing Ender,

I must compliment you. You are the first centinarian I have ever heard from who likes Orson Scott Card and uses phrases like "boner for armegeddon." I am very surprised at how hip you are.

So respectfully, on the very off chance that I am actually adressing a person who is over 100 years old, what did you do during the war?

And another thing,

Respectfully,

Ender, what did you do during the War? If you served in the Second World War, you know the dangers of Fascism. You have heard this music before. Please tell me why you think the message of Bin-Ladin, Hezzballah, Hamas or any of the radical Islamists is any different then the peculiar mix of frenzy, personalism and nationalism that made life so terrible in the Forties?

Question to Ender,

Are you really over 100 years old?

Joe, if ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest man alive.

Ender,

Actually, Gary and I posted a whole bunch of points, actual points as to why you are so very misled. Please scroll up and read the post that I have with eight questions. I have been waiting for anyone here to attempt to answer them.

Since you believe that supporting our ALLY, democratic and defensive Israel over our avowed ENEMIES undemocratic and offensive Islamofascists(do you really think that groups like the Hezzies for instance are friends of America? Do you think murdering hundereds of our Marines makes them friends? What about all the Death to America chanting?) makes me un-American, I am very confused what your definition of patriotism is.

As to Amanipour's bit of propaganda, it is what it is, but it is not fact.

So again, please do me the kindness of truthfull attempting to answer any of the questions I posed in my first long post.

And I will pose one more, since you seem to be very concerned about AIPAC, what do you make of the fact that the Saudis have a VASTLY larger lobby?

Joe, If you're Palestinian, Israel is the terrorist state. Before you blame everything on the Palestinians, you should read about the 1956 massacre at Kafr Kasem and other atrocities of the State of Israel.