All Comments (23)

You don't even deserve a comment for your sin.

Considering secularism as being superior to traditional religion is ethnocentric at best. I love Leftists, because they preach tolerance and inclusion. But in reality, they are quite the opposite.

Secularists are the biggest hypocrites. SECULARISM = HYPOCRISY.

Norrie Hoyt:

Rabbi Saperstein,

Thank you for your enlightened words.

I imagine that you're right and that the younger generations will settle the gay issues for the better in a few years.

Would that the self-professed "Christians" who rage against gays in these threads and elsewhere come to see the light.

Didn't Jesus say not to judge Norrie? I'd say you are being awefully judgmental. Tssk. Tssk. Tssk.

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It's a great achievement for Islamic leaders and scholars as well as Newsweek and the Washington post to present this imperative opportunity for inter cultural and global philosophical dialogue. What's important is that by exchanging our ideas and comments regarding inter religious relations and world events that affect our views of each other as fellow human beings. Since the advent of humanity, We strove to make sense of the world we live in and the lives we've experienced. Worldwide curiosities to learn the true nature of life and our universe is an exceptionally rare virtue upon life on Earth. In other words, we're the only known species on the planet who've pursued to unravel these great mysteries and developed written philosophies based upon our understanding of the world around us.
One such philosophy that lasted throughout the ages of humanity is commonly known as religion and spirituality. Ever since our early belief in the Sky God and the God Mother from ancient Pagan times, we vigorously pursued to unravel the truth about our most profound questions. As any educated person would know that religion and their core beliefs or faith have evolved over time. Paganism, Monotheism and Polytheism have been influenced by humanity as these great philosophies have influenced our perceptions and decisions in life over the ages. Over time humanity has embraced diverse religious faiths and spiritual convictions that continue to influence our behavior in our times and most likely beyond.
What's vital for humanity's progress and even survival is to know the true nature of faith itself. To understand the true origins of faith. But most of all, is to accept the truth for whatever it may be. Each one of us will learn the absolute truth once we die. But until that time comes for anyone of us to depart this world, we really don't know the answer to God's existence nor do we have the absolute truth in regards to the true nature of God. Besides if we did possess the truth, there would've been only one religion on Earth with no diversification of any way, shape of form. There would only be one holy scripture written throughout human history.
Considering one's religious faith to be absolute, while considering others to be false would be ethnocentric at best. While collectively searching to unravel the mysteries on nature, life and the universe through sincere reasoning and serious research would be enlightening at its worst. Most importantly, we must accept the fact is that none of us have conclusive evidence to confirm our core beliefs and there's always an immanent change that our most cherished beliefs could be wrong. Our greatest challenge would be to tolerate the truth no matter what it may ultimately be. With such an open mind, we would be able to overcome any future discovery that would contradict our faith regarding the true nature of life, spirituality and divinity.
Humanity does have the ability to achieve such a social achievement. However, it's solely up to humanity and not any other entity or groups of entities to decide our destinies. Each one of us has a choice to make; either hopelessly engaging into meaningless inter cultural conflicts or combine our scientific and cultural gifts to thrive into an enlightened global civilization that could ultimately expand beyond our solar system. The choice is yours, and the time to make it is now!

Why Homosexuality is not okay:
- If homosexuality was a correct way of life, we would not be here today. It is as simple as saying that the parts do not fit. It is common sense, males and males or females and females can not reproduce, therefore that lifestyle would have led the human race into extinction, if it would have been tolerated.
- So why should we encourage or "tolerate" this behavior? All it will lead to is the destruction of the human race.
- the foundation of humanity has continued through the 5000=years (scientifically) on the basis of heterosexuality. It can not be denied that no matter what God or what way this Earth was created, heterosexuality, has sustained and continued life on earth for ALL SPECIES.

-this leads to my second point,
-I don't care what science or studies that you throw into this, no matter that male or female animals hang out with the same sex, that has no relation to them being homosexual. It is like saying that little johnny has invited his ten best friends over for his birthday party. They are all boys. Does that make him gay? NO.

-and another of my questions is, why on Earth are you comparing humans to animals. The defining factor that makes the human race superior to all races, is the fact that we humans know the difference from wrong and right. Animals do not. You can not compare humans, (that is moral and decent humans) to animals, because animals are stupid. humans are not animals, we are humans which is why we have been the strongest and smartest form of life on the planet.

Homosexuals are acting like animals in the sense that they only listen to their bodies sexual impulses, totally ignoring what is right from wrong. We have already found that if homosexuality was right, we would not be here, but since we are here, that makes homosexuality the wrong lifestyle.

-the institution of the family, the traditional family is the correct way of life, shown and proven through thousands of years of life on Earth. This is not opinion, it is FACT.

Now if you bring religion into it, the christian bible clearly defies and denounces homosexuality. Throughout the bible, many references are made to sexual immorality and homosexual prostitutes, as being wrong and that these people will not inherit the kingdom of God, Heaven. Read 1st corinthians:6, and Tell me that what I just said is not true.

Many people refute this fact, saying that aren't Christians supposed to love all people and accept all people?

The answer is yes. As a christian, it is our duty to love all, including homosexuals. But, that does not mean that as christians we should tolerate their lifestyle. As christians, we are supposed to help these people. As we know, from clear and precise scripture, homosexuals will not go to heaven, so it is our job to help them to pursue a healthy lifestyle: heterosexuality. That is where the love and forgivness of Christ comes into play, he loves all people, even if they sin and turn from his way, but he does not forgive those who do not try to be forgiven, those who do not try to change. That is the christian mission in the lifestyle of homosexuality, to help homosexuals to change.
-For example: as a christian, I can have a gay friend, a friend I dearly cherish, but as a christian, it is my duty to extend the love and forgiveness of God, and try to help my gay friend to change. You can love a gay or lesbian as a human, a person, but you cannot accept their lifestyle.

Many try to refute this argument by saying that homosexuals are born the way that they are. No they choose it. If you, as a christian, accept homosexuality, and believe that homosexuals are born that way, then you are being a hypocrite. Why would your loving God, who loves everyone and everything, who, as you believe created the universe and everything in it, say that homosexuality is wrong and denounce it, and then create homosexuals? Are you saying that God, your God, who created everything did not know what he created? So he didn't know that he created homosexuals, yet says that their lifestyle is sinful? how Dare you confuse the living word of God. Homosexuals are not born gay, if you are a christian, you can not believe that they are, because why would God make homosexuals and say that their way of life is wrong? He wouldn't because he loves all of his creation. He just gives his creation free will, and that is why homosexuals choose to be gay.
-And if you want to bring science into it, there is no clear scientific evidence that declares the cause of homosexuality in humans or animals.

These are all reasons why gay unions or homosexuality in general is not okay. This is not a political issue, it is a moral issue, and issue of right or wrong. They question you need to ask yourseleves is what is right? And very clearly, for a christian: the bible declares homosexuality wrong, as a member of another faith: I'm sure their is some peice of data in your books denying homosexuality, and for atheists or people who don't follow a common or specific religion: common sense shows the truth and living proof of life.

Thank You

And people wonder why church attendance is down. It's clear that the ministers don't believe the bible. They just collect the money.

Just because something is popular, doesn't make it right. It used to be that to be called a christian, it was expected that you believed the bible and agreed to conform your life to it's principles.

Now it seems like to be a christian, all you have to do is find a "church" to tickle your ears (2 Tim 4:3-4).

I hope this scripture has helped our society.
We cannot live our lives feeling like we can do whatever we want without consequences.
We may not be harming others but "For what profiteth a man that he gain the whole world but loseeth his own soul" (Matthew 16:26). No one can serve two masters. God Is Love.

Hi Franco I was not saying by pointing out the sin is hatred, I was saying when we judge gays that it is wrong. Instead of baggering we should teach them the right way show them in scripture and keep the commandments. These are the last and evil days and we have to becareful who we follow and read the bible for ourselves and do our research.
I would expect rabbi's to have more knowledge but the bible say in Jeremiah 4:22" "My people are fools; they do not know me.
They are senseless children; they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good."

Kimberly,
The man I referred to was one of my best friends in high school. I haven't spoken to him in years since we live far apart. It was after graduation that he spoke to me openly about his persuasion, and at that time he explained why he did have girlfriends, and I don't believe it had anything to do with societal pressure. I asked him about the one girlfriend I knew, and he said that he always had the feelings of same-sex attraction, but that he also genuinely cared for this girl and that being close to her felt good as anyone would feel good hugging a friend. (I don't know any details beyond that they were physically affectionate in some way.) His first girfriend was much earlier, and I don't know the circumstances except that he did admit to full intercourse. (Too young for anyone, in my opinion!) So I think you may be making too much of the whole societal pressure thing.

True: gays have been treated horribly, physically and socially. This is immoral and should be stopped. But I also think it's true that it's becoming much easier to be openly gay, and as a result I think we see it more often. The public dialogue, as in this blog (if that's what it's called?), has been so strongly 'pro-gay' that public sentiment is shifting toward full acceptance of gays in all aspects of life.

Those who still believe that traditional marriage ought to be preserved (like myself) are made out to be hateful, fearful, unintelligent, dogmatic, bigots. I truly resent this false, straw-man caricature. This opinion may largely be the fault of some extreme zealots who really do say things that can be characterized as bigoted. But among my many "socailly conservative" friends this caricature couldn't be farther from the truth.

There is an argument that I think is missing from the debate, and that is that same-sex attraction is a defect as real as (if genetic) Down syndrome, (if a mental illness) Bi-polar disorder, or (if an addiction) alcoholism. How can anyone expect that a man with male genitalia to express his libido toward something other than a woman? If a man chooses something other than a woman my first reaction is that he is deviating from what is natural.

The leftist argument has succeeded in swaying common sense about the issue in at least two ways. 1) gays are born that way and it's ok, natural, and acceptable. They point to history and say it's been around forever, and they point to animals and show similar behavior. But these points are irrelevant. History is full of mental and physical disease and immoral behavior, and I want nothing of animal behavior in the society I live in. 2) Any consensual sexual activity outside of traditional marriage is not immoral. Unfortunately this pervasive viewpoint has done more damage to our society than just encouraging people to indulge in their same-sex impulses.

My faith does direct my belief on this issue (faith and belief are different things, by the way), but it doesn't have to. Common sense, and I dare say science, should tell us that the homosexual drive is not a natural or "intended" occurance in humans.

I acknowledge that the feelings of gays are strong and probably seem impossible to change to most. But I submit that it is not impossible to change, and that the most compassionate thing we can do for gays is to help them change. I don't know how similar same-sex attraction is to addictions, but I personally have struggled with my own addiction that has threatened my family and my happiness. Rather than give in to it I fought it and defeated it using a technique called Additive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT). I encourage anyone to go to www.rational.org and check this out. It's a powerful method using "Your" mind to resist your "Beast" within. Who is to say that the "homosexual voice" is not another type of "Beast"? The first and biggest challenge is that it requires a desire to change.

I apologize if my first post sounded vitriolic. Many posts of the opposite viewpoint are intentionaly very insulting, and that sort of language doesn't help anyone. This debate may be over for many people, but it shouldn't be. Open your mind and allow for the possibility that traditions don't change! Liberalism does not hold a monopoly on tolerance, or compassion! LiberalISM is just another "ism" sometimes.

Rabbi,

Your words are eloquent and logical and I appreciate your support and compassion. Thank You.

Black Jay,

"The man had sexual relations with more than one woman. This illustrates that everyone has a choice in their behaviors."

His decision to have sex with women before coming out only illustrates the point that most gay individuals feel societal pressure to conform. But when something feels so inherently wrong inside, you just can't. If it really was a choice, then most people would choose not to live a life full of such prejudice and hardships that are only furthered by the views of people like yourself.

David wrote in this article that "It is interesting to see in polls how, across religious lines, support for gay rights increases significantly once someone has a close friend or family member who is gay." The importance of this should be stressed. It is a common phenomena that once you can put a personal face on someone that is for one reason or another considered 'deviant,' the ability to demonize such individuals dissapears. It has to do with our ability to generate "us" and "them" sentimentalities. Someone close to you is usually in the "us" category and it becomes uncomfortable to demean qualities in a person who you consider part of your own inner group. Among the best tools to combat intolerance of all kinds is a very personal familiarity with the intolerated.

"Would that the self-professed "Christians" who rage against gays in these threads and elsewhere come to see the light." -Norrie Hoyt

This is a straw man argument. In the conservative circles I travel in I don't know anyone who "rages against gays".

"...that puts the fundamentalist Christians on this site to shame.
There are, to be fair, some enlightened Christians here too." -Betty

Does this mean "fundamentalist" does not equal "enlightened"? I was going to thank you for complimenting me, until I realized you would probably call me fundamentalist for my views. Can you "tolerate" the fundamentalist viewpoint?

Every person sins. And every person has the ability to avoid sin. Sins come from disobeying God's commandments as given in the scriptures, and as our own conscience tells us. The scriptures I follow say that homosexual BEHAVIOR is a sin. They also say many other behaviors are sins. There are very real consequences for each sin, but these can be avoided through repentance and finding forgiveness from God. But if we decide that we don't want to call some behavior a sin, after the scriptures say explicitly that it is, then we rob God of the opportunity to forgive that sin. It sounds lke a very loving thing to pardon gays, and say we accept them as they are. But the most loving thing we can do is to encourage them to repent, and still open our arms to them, and afford equal rights to them.

I advocate equal rights to everyone, but I oppose legalized "gay unions", not because I hate people with same-sex attraction, but because I cannot condone behavior forbidden by my faith. Each of us has a choice whether to sin or not, including engaging in homosexual behavior. I acknowledge that some have extremely strong inclinations toward homosexual behavior, and I don't pretent to understand it fully. There are some who also have extremely strong inclinations to drink alcohol, do drugs, masturbate, or have sex before marriage. But all of these things only occur after we have made a conscious decision to do them. We may be "addicted" to any number of behaviors, but that is hardly an excuse. You cannot say that it is acceptable just because it's hard to overcome.

As an example, I have two friends, a "gay man" and a "gay woman". Both of them have admitted to me that they had "girlfriend"/"boyfriend" relationships with people of the opposite sex before they "came out of the closet". The man had "sexual relations" with more than one woman. This illustrates that everyone has a choice in their behaviors. If we didn't have a choice then I could buy the argument that it is not a sin.

So if you still think everyone opposed to gay unions (regardless of what you want to call it) hates those who call themselves "gay" then I think you need some enlightening of your own. And Betty, I don't feel shame one bit.

How does he go from religious liberty to legal recognition by a state?

Do we no longer have seperation of church and state in America?

So often the most beautiful prose is the weakest logic.

I think that God see's us ALL as humans which he created each as an individual (6 billion and growing. Each with a purpose. I dont think He looks at our race, color or even gender. He judges us by the content of our heart. Perhaps gays our here to teach others how to be able to love someone that is different. Thank you Rabbi

Shar, Jesus always pointed out sin to all who he came in contact with. Why do you call it hatred? Her did it in locve so that none would perish. Agree with you that judgment is God's responsibility.

Certain christians and nonchristians should be ashamed not all.
Yes we are suppose to love, show compassion, everything christ was an example of, but the biggest problem in our society is hatred and the meaning of it. A form of hatred is judging ones lifestyle.
We are not to judge one another at all but there are laws that we must keep no matter how we try to make things more acceptable in our life.
Jesus never compromised his teaching's and showed us how to show the fruits of the spirit even when entering the sinners house and being humble enough to associate along with them.
None of us are without sin so we should not cast stones towards one another but teach what our divine spiritual guider has taught us without compromising with the world.

The Jews and the Muslims
are showing Christians the Way

This post, and that by Ms Taylor, show such a high level of wisdom and compassion that puts the fundamentalist Christians on this site to shame.

There are, to be fair, some enlightened Christians here too.

But the depth and understanding of our Jewish/Muslim brothers and sisters is inspirational, and it makes me wish the US were more a mix of
Jewish/Muslim/Christian/Atheist/Secular Humanist viewpoints than the often narrow Christianist view that is predominant.

I join James and Norrie in saluting you, Rabbi Saperstein, for your humanity.

Rabbi Saperstein

May your lineage increase infinitely.

You and your family have been such a force for good in this world, it brings tears to my eyes.

For your wisdom, compassion, and menschlishkeit, I salute you.

if the whole world had your spirit, we would have heaven on earth.

Rabbi Saperstein,

Thank you for your enlightened words.

I imagine that you're right and that the younger generations will settle the gay issues for the better in a few years.

Would that the self-professed "Christians" who rage against gays in these threads and elsewhere come to see the light.