Ultimately, it is Israelis who will live or die by virtue of the decisions they make, but we can help by lending our wisdom to their debates of these urgent matters.
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All Comments (72)
No, disagreeing with the claim that Israel as a Jewish, discriminatory state has a "right to exist" is not "anti-Semitic." Please read the following:
John V. Whitbeck
Christian Science Monitor
February 2, 2007
Since the Palestinian elections in 2006, Israel and much of the West have asserted that the principal obstacle to any progress toward Israeli-Palestinian peace is the refusal of Hamas to "recognize Israel," or to "recognize Israel's existence," or to "recognize Israel's right to exist."
These three verbal formulations have been used by Israel, the United States, and the European Union as a rationale for collective punishment of the Palestinian people. The phrases are also used by the media, politicians, and even diplomats interchangeably, as though they mean the same thing. They do not.
"Recognizing Israel" or any other state is a formal legal and diplomatic act by one state with respect to another state. It is inappropriate – indeed, nonsensical – to talk about a political party or movement extending diplomatic recognition to a state. To talk of Hamas "recognizing Israel" is simply to use sloppy, confusing, and deceptive shorthand for the real demand being made of the Palestinians.
"Recognizing Israel's existence" appears on first impression to involve a relatively straightforward acknowledgment of a fact of life. Yet there are serious practical problems with this language. What Israel, within what borders, is involved? Is it the 55 percent of historical Palestine recommended for a Jewish state by the UN General Assembly in 1947? The 78 percent of historical Palestine occupied by the Zionist movement in 1948 and now viewed by most of the world as "Israel" or "Israel proper"? The 100 percent of historical Palestine occupied by Israel since June 1967 and shown as "Israel" (without any "Green Line") on maps in Israeli schoolbooks?
Israel has never defined its own borders, since doing so would necessarily place limits on them. Still, if this were all that was being demanded of Hamas, it might be possible for the ruling political party to acknowledge, as a fact of life, that a state of Israel exists today within some specified borders. Indeed, Hamas leadership has effectively done so in recent weeks.
"Recognizing Israel's right to exist," the actual demand being made of Hamas and Palestinians, is in an entirely different league. This formulation does not address diplomatic formalities or a simple acceptance of present realities. It calls for a moral judgment.
There is an enormous difference between "recognizing Israel's existence" and "recognizing Israel's right to exist." From a Palestinian perspective, the difference is in the same league as the difference between asking a Jew to acknowledge that the Holocaust happened and asking him to concede that the Holocaust was morally justified. For Palestinians to acknowledge the occurrence of the Nakba – the expulsion of the great majority of Palestinians from their homeland between 1947 and 1949 – is one thing. For them to publicly concede that it was "right" for the Nakba to have happened would be something else entirely. For the Jewish and Palestinian peoples, the Holocaust and the Nakba, respectively, represent catastrophes and injustices on an unimaginable scale that can neither be forgotten nor forgiven.
To demand that Palestinians recognize "Israel's right to exist" is to demand that a people who have been treated as subhumans unworthy of basic human rights publicly proclaim that they are subhumans. It would imply Palestinians' acceptance that they deserve what has been done and continues to be done to them. Even 19th-century US governments did not require the surviving native Americans to publicly proclaim the "rightness" of their ethnic cleansing by European colonists as a condition precedent to even discussing what sort of land reservation they might receive. Nor did native Americans have to live under economic blockade and threat of starvation until they shed whatever pride they had left and conceded the point.
Some believe that Yasser Arafat did concede the point in order to buy his ticket out of the wilderness of demonization and earn the right to be lectured directly by the Americans. But in fact, in his famous 1988 statement in Stockholm, he accepted "Israel's right to exist in peace and security." This language, significantly, addresses the conditions of existence of a state which, as a matter of fact, exists. It does not address the existential question of the "rightness" of the dispossession and dispersal of the Palestinian people from their homeland to make way for another people coming from abroad.
The original conception of the phrase "Israel's right to exist" and of its use as an excuse for not talking with any Palestinian leaders who still stood up for the rights of their people are attributed to former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. It is highly likely that those countries that still employ this phrase do so in full awareness of what it entails, morally and psychologically, for the Palestinian people.
However, many people of goodwill and decent values may well be taken in by the surface simplicity of the words, "Israel's right to exist," and believe that they constitute a reasonable demand. And if the "right to exist" is reasonable, then refusing to accept it must represent perversity, rather than Palestinians' deeply felt need to cling to their self-respect and dignity as full-fledged human beings. That this need is deeply felt is evidenced by polls showing that the percentage of the Palestinian population that approves of Hamas's refusal to bow to this demand substantially exceeds the percentage that voted for Hamas in January 2006.
Those who recognize the critical importance of Israeli-Palestinian peace and truly seek a decent future for both peoples must recognize that the demand that Hamas recognize "Israel's right to exist" is unreasonable, immoral, and impossible to meet. Then, they must insist that this roadblock to peace be removed, the economic siege of the Palestinian territories be lifted, and the pursuit of peace with some measure of justice be resumed with the urgency it deserves.
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Posted on September 27, 2007 20:01
The very first statement is completely BOGUS.
the Ashkenazi JEW is more related to a Turk then a true Semite.
The Palestine people are more semitic then the Ashkenazi Jew ever will be or ever was.
KHAZARS are the King of the NORTH. THEY ARE USURPING JUDAHISM AND RIDING ITS LEGACY AS TO BUILD UP THEIR EMPIRE.
Look it up.....Ashkenazi Jews are from Khazaria, NOT FROM ISRAEL. They are who John warned you all about, those who say they are Jews but are not!!!!!!
THE BELFOUR DECLARATION IS UNJUST!!!!! UNFAIR!!!!
AND COMPLETELY BOGUS!
WAKE UP WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ENGLAND HAD NO MORE RIGHT TO GIVE AWAY PALESTINE TO THESE KHAZARS THEN IRELAND HAS THE RIGHT TO GIVE AWAY HAWAII TO THE HUNS!!!!!!!!!!!
May 29, 2007 2:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 29, 2007 14:45
4 anti-semitics in one post- that may be a record
GH i will give you a link here and also on the main blog i just read a short but fact filled history-
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
March 29, 2007 3:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 29, 2007 03:27
"In fact, can there be such a nation that is not racist toward those of its citizens who do not belong to the religion the state manifests (be is Judaism or Islam)?"
That says something about the intellectual level of these discussions. Religion equals race if that will tar and feather Jews who care about Israel and Jerusalem.
And what is anti-semitic is not complex. First you look up the word not redefine it by looking at its component parts. Second you don't assume a person is through and through anti-semitic because they make statements that are. Third if people throw in negative stereotypes about Jews, myths about how much more powerful they are than Muslims, or hyperbolic descriptions of self defense efforts as part of a genocide campaign, they are making anti-semitic statements and those who think that is okay would probably feel they had it coming if millions of Jews were murdered.
I am not sure where Jimmy Carter and the Presbyterians fit in that. As for Jews not being able to be anti-semitic, that is silly.
February 28, 2007 7:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2007 19:34
My professor of human rights law in law school used to say that "the United States has the worst human rights record in the world, the operative word being 'record.'" The US makes all its mistakes a matter of public record, while the atrocities of a Syria or a Russia only come to light decades later, if at all.
Israel (and the Jewish people for that matter)suffers from the same honesty. Its foibles are there for all to see. They are magnified by constant official Arab prevarication, but Israel does not claim to be faultless.
The Israelis struggle with a very difficult situation, one which most of the non-Jewish world chooses not to understand. Is the non-Jewish world guilty of ignorance, indifference, or malice (i.e., anti-Semitism)? One could ask the same question of those who stood by during the Holocaust. Really, the answer is irrelevant.
February 27, 2007 9:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 21:48
People like John Nash are the root cause of this problem. Just read his post. Its full of racism towards jews, but he can spew his garbage freely and pretend like we wont notice his BLATANT hypocrisy. He can say whatever he pleases (because this is a free country much like israel and much to the contrary of most arab nations), and we can point out his racist rants because they are obviously 'anti-semetic'. Enough is enough. I will not let people like John Nash call others low lifes just because he doesnt agree with them. Critical thinking skills are the key to peace, and you can only obtain those in an educational system which is objective and promotes free speech/press.
Most Arab countries to NOT have this. Arabs get superior status in EVERY ARAB COUNTRY. Israel may not give arabs equal aid as jews but whats funny is that israeli arabs STILL have better lives in israel than in any other arab country.
Jews are not even allowed in many Arab areas. including THE HOLIEST site in Judaism.
I would also like to point out that palestinians and jordanians were the same people 100 years ago. You can easily look this up when you research the history of the region. This is a ridiculous debate. There is enough fighting going on in israel for both sides, we should be looking for a solution.
and the reason why they dont make one big democracy is because the arabs would use their majority to do things like bring hamas into power. if the palestinians were more like.. lets say the canadians, there wouldnt be a problem AT ALL. The real problem is that Islam believes that the world sooner or later needs to be virtually 100% (key word virtually) Muslim. That is their publicly stated goal. Thats one thing the jewish "theocracy" in israel would NEVER do to ANYONE.
February 27, 2007 9:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 21:27
It would seem anti-Semitic to me to ignore facts and mitigating circimstances that might place the Jews/Israelis/Zionists in a positive light, and then to engage in polemical attacks against them; attacks not based on the historical record. But alas, I am reading A LOT of that in this discussion thread. Then again, it could just be ignorance.
February 27, 2007 9:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 21:16
People like Yahav are the root cause of this problem. Just read his post. Its full of racism towards arabs, but he can spew his garbage freely because he thinks he has the shield of anti-semitism to protect him. He can say whatever he pleases, but we can't point out his racist rants because that would makes us 'anti-semites'. Enough is enough. We should not let labels like anti-semitism protect low life jews like Yahavs anymore.
February 27, 2007 8:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 20:26
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February 27, 2007 6:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 18:17
I have to say, after Jews being refugees after the Holocaust one of their only places to go was Israel. The Palestinians not only have Jordan, Sadui Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, but so many other countries that should help their fellow Arabs. Yet they don't. It is a known political tactic, also used by Peru for instance, that the leaders of those Arab countries and the Leader of the Palestinians make sure that the citizens have a common hate which is Israel and the USA. THis makes the citizens blame Israel and the USA for the fact that they are poor, high unemployment, treat their women very unfairly, not democracies instead of blaming the people responsible.. their leaders! THeir leaders did this to make sure that they will not be blamed.
I definetely agree that it is not fair at all for the Palestinians to have been kicked out, but the USA is helping them enough! All the millions they have given them was taken by Yasser Arafat when he was still alive. look it up, he stole it. And if you don't believe me, then why do the Palestinians live in beat up wooden houses if they were given Millions??!?!? Israelis had only 50 years as a country but established itself a democracy, an amazing army, a flourishing economy and much more. The arab countries still treat their women like filth and their people are poor and unemployed. Its because of their leaders.
Trust me, I have nothing against the Arabs, just their leaders and how they brain wash their citizens to have a common hate of Israel and the USA so the citizens dont blame their leaders who are the true criminals.
THey even brain wash their children to think that if they blow themselves up and kill other Israelis too, then they will go to heaven where there will be carousels and unicorns. Here is the website where they brainwash kids with cartoons, http://www.al-fateh.net/
I want to hear feedback, and repliesm and listen to what others have to say.
February 27, 2007 6:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 18:05
As I read the blog, I see first that the creation of Israel displaced hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and by the end of the blog, the number of displaced Palestinians has grown to over a million. In fact, the State of Israel at its inceptions consisted of areas within Palestine that had a Jewish majority. In some instances, the Jewish majority had existed for hundreds of years; e.g. Jerusalem. Had the local Arab populations accepted a Jewish state in those areas in which a Jewish majority resided, very few Arabs would have been displaced and many might have lived peacefully, side-by-side with their Jewish neighbors. Sadly, the Arab population refused to tolerate a Jewish presence even in areas that had been previously unsettled or sparsely settled or historically settled by Jews. The Arab armies attacked the Jewish state and its people seeking to destroy the state and its people. After the Jews defeated the Arab armies, many Arabs elected to leave areas within the Jewish state because they didn't want to live with Jews, others left out of fear of reprisals. It's important to remember that the refugee problem was caused by the Arab attempt to destroy the Jewish state and its people. It was not casused by the original partition.
February 27, 2007 5:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 17:26
Victoria,
Thanks a million for providing the website below:
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm,
which shows how US taxpayers money is plundered by/to Israel to occupy and terrorise the Palestinian people-that is on American treasure; On the American blood shed on behlaf of or because of Israel:Iraq, 9/11, The Cole, Marines in Lebanon And lest any one forgets, the premediated Israeli attack on the US Liberty ship in international waters during the 1967 war to prevent the US from listening on Israeli war plans. Israel was never held accountable for 37 US navy personnel murderd by the repeated Israeli air strikes in full day light.
February 27, 2007 5:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 17:24
For Mr. Saperstein to call identity denial, racism is too funny. Racism has more to do with being denied equal treatment and access to life. Israel appears to deny the Palestinian people of that desired sameness as Israel possess and Mr. Saperstein claims to be harmed racially by the act of denying others the same equality Mr. Saperstein demands.
Mr. Saperstein appears to believe the concept of 'the chosen people,' and is arrogant in his asertion of his superiority over others claiming equality through his beliefs. I know no other group of people that moved into someone else's home and claimed it as their own based on a jewish belief, and decries racism as a rationale. Mr. Saperstein appears to want to feed the rest of us cake. Respect is earned and not given. Common Sense and acceptable logic. Racism is witholding equality by others with superior position. Israel is on the wrong side og that equation to claim to be harmed by racism, they are harmiong others in the way Mr. Saperstein describes his countries harm.
February 27, 2007 5:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 17:01
This subject, sadly, remains taboo to discuss at any length for fear of angering millions of people. I am 44 years old, well-read, but have never come across a succinct history of the story of Zionism. All I've heard is who killed who for the last 40 years, and my efforts to find information online have been limited at best. We cannot have a real discussion until we have all the facts. I believe I can say Israel is a reality and has a right to exist, and Christianity should own up to their mistreatment of Jews for centuries, while still maintaining (with what I have been able to study) that the creation of Israel in the Middle East maybe wasn't the greatest idea in the first place. Does that make me anti-semitic?
February 27, 2007 4:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 16:50
In the case of the Jews, it is their identity as a national group that is denied by some – and that is, simply, an instance of racism against Jews.
Huh? Please tell me of ANY other racial or religous group that automatically assumes it has nation status on the basis of race or religion that is not considered racist? Basing National identity in race or religion is the very soul of racism. ZIONISM is RACISM. period.
February 27, 2007 4:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 16:39
Mr.Saperstein,
With all due respect, your article is simply the often repeated and recycled "holocaust/ anti-Semitism package" propaganda which few people if any pay any attention to; why does Israel and its misguided supporters keep talking about and invoking the holocaust /anti-Semitism at every turn? The holocaust occurred 60 years ago and Jews think they have the monopoly over suffering when tens of millions of Europeans perished in WW11. Why is this anti-Semitism used as a whip, a silencer to stifle and obstruct the exposure of Israel's war crimes and its bloody hands, its brutal racist militaristic Apartheid regime in Palestine?
The Arabs (Semitic Canaanites BC) lived in Palestine from times immemorial and throughout history long before Jews ever touched its soil and without interruption-thou at times invaded/occupied by aliens such as Romans, Persians, Crusaders, Turks and finally Jews or the so called Israelis-who only had at best marginal and insignificant historical Jewish presence in Palestine for only a short period of time-unlike the Arabs who maintained continuous presence in Palestine thru the ages.
It's mere propaganda for you, Mr.Saperstein, to claim "3000 years" with the "land of Israel”: Palestine is Palestinian and not the land of Israel and sooner you come to terms with unequivocal and objective fact, the better it’s for all concerned; luckily, Palestinians are alive and kicking-battered but not defatted-and are all over the place thou Israel wished they would vanish:Golda Meir once said "there are no Palestinians!!!." You should stop repeating these myths lest you believe them one of those days.
Israel was illegitimately created by the West to (1) atone for the atrocities of the holocaust which is truly regrettable but not more regrettable than the Serbian Genocide of 250,000 Bosnian Muslims in the back yard of Europe or the Chechens who were forced marched by Stalin in the middle of the winter where 50 percent of perished, as well as the on going holocaust of the Palestinians, and (2) to get rid of the Jews. The West failed at both.
The West created Israel and destroyed Palestine in 1947; so who should complain about the dire need for the right to exist: the Destroyed/the vanquished/the victim-The Palestinians-or the Useper, the Aggressor and the Tormentor and the party that has been occupying Palestine for 60 years-Israel the Apartheid state who is starving the Palestinian People and driving them to despair;
The party that has a state with Nuclear weapons and occupying a whole people is the one who should recognize the exisistence of the shattered, dispersed, tormented and occupied Palestinians.
Instead of recycling the holcaust/anti-semitism, why don't the Jews learn a lesson from the holocaustic if they really know what suffering is, the Jews should stop tormenting the Palestinians and should not inflict the same agony they went thru-otherwise to please shut up.
In a nut shell: the only viable solution to this conflict, is one secular democratic state to accommodate all people now living in historic Palestine, Arabs-both Christians and Muslims-and Jews if they wish to stay and live in peace and equality. The present racist militaristic Apartheid Jewish state is simply not sustainable as it's unacceptable-the only state in the world without a constitution and without borders-creeping borders that stretch as far as the range of the American freely supplied tanks can reach.
The two state solution will never work: Israel devoured Palestinian land, water, resources and even their tax revenues-any Palestinian state will be born dead.
February 27, 2007 4:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 16:17
Before one justifies Israels right to be a state in
its present location because Jews lived there a long, long time ago, one should be reminded that with DNA science many, if not all people can be
traced back to their early origins. Should they all
be allowed to reform their tribes and each be given
a piece of land that presently belongs to someone
else? No? How about just the ones who can show that
they were treated grievously by another state or tribe sometime in the past? Maybe, but not likely?
So it is, that only Israel gets this special deal, and that is distressing to many people. It is a religion that identifies itself as a state and vice
versa and, for the trifecta, it also identifies itself as a race. With this politically correct shield in place, it can argue that any criticism of
the Isaeli government is: #1 racist, #2 Discrimination against a religion, and #3 giving
comfort and aid to those who would destroy Israel.
This is nonsense, but it is a nonsense that is
the boilerplate of Israels public relations image
in America and has been for 50 years. Most people,
by the time that they get to be the age of the state of Israel have grown up. Israel still reflexively finds enemies among all of its critics. This is a childish response.
February 27, 2007 4:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 16:02
To uphold Jewish values does not include making Palestinians second-class citizens, blockading and occupying their land, while killing them with impunity - realities Rabbi Saperstein wont mention. Unfortunately, Zionism is not a Jewish identity, as much as it is a nationalist political movement that hijacks Judaism.
It would not be a problem to support a Jewish state, except that Israel is built on the land of Palestinians who were the vast majority until the Zionists ethnically cleansed them in 1948. Therefore, I as a Jew cannot support a Zionist state built on racial superiority. Haven't we almost won that battle here in the US and in South Africa?
To criticize US support for a racialist Israel is upholding Jewish values of airing opinions, human rights and mutual respect. In fact, as Zionism degrades into a vulgar nationalist movement claiming to act for all Jews, it becomes fuel for anti-Semites.
February 27, 2007 3:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 15:37
"The national identity (Zionism) has been, for the past three millennia, bound up with the land of Israel. No other people before the 19th century ever perceived the land we know as Israel to be its distinct nation, but for 3,000 years Jews have continuously lived there – and the many who were denied the right to live there daily dreamed, prayed and struggled for the day they might be enabled to return."
I have dreamed for so many years to have my neighbor's house for so many years. May be, liek Israel, I geather some guns and take it over.
February 27, 2007 3:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 15:30
Discussing the difference about zionism and anti-semitism is all fine and good, but the fact of the matter is that albeit they are by definition different, Americans are led to believe that both terms mean the same thing. Frank discussions about the Palestinian-Isreali situation is not discussed at all in American national forums, which leads to the unevenness of American Policy towards the Middle East.
Pro-Isreali lobbyists, neocons, and some Fundamentalist Christans have shifted the debate from Palestinians' right to coexist with Isrealis into Isrealis' right to exist. The Arab attacks on Isreal in the past did not make the discussion any easier; these attacks only affirmed some Isrealis' belief that survival depends on the annexation of Palestinian territory and the exile of the native arab population. On the Palestinian side, the unfair unilateral action of the Isrealis have produced an atmosphere of anger, resentment, and eventually, hostility. The eventual sequelae is displayed on our public TV.
The repeated failure of dialogue between Isreal and Palestine is proof that neither side is ready to negotiate. It should be noted, however, that the Palestinians are being asked to give up a lot more in the peace talks than the Isrealis, and this may contribute to the talk's failure. Unless America is ready to become even handed in dealing with the situation, neither side will look onto peace talks as a mean to end the conflict.
Which brings us to this forum: the discussion of anti-semitism and anti-zionism must be clearly defined for any sort of frank discussion in American to take place. Labeling critics of Isreali policy as "anti-semitic" has made a mockery of the term, and only reinforces sideline observers' (and racists') belief that America is the puppet of Isreali money and lobbyists. It serves Isreal no purpose to reinforce this view. I believe Rabbi is doing a good job on bringing this discussion to light, and hopefully more people will also consider this topic in a more meaningful manner than the current American journalistic coverage of the situation has allowed.
February 27, 2007 3:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 15:22
Is it also islamophobic (the term of art given to racism toward Muslims) to deny Iran's right to exist as a Muslim state? The key words here are "Muslim state." It is racist to deny human rights to anyone based on their creed or culture, and that includes the right to worship, but there is no right anywhere for anyone to build a nation based on religion. In fact, can there be such a nation that is not racist toward those of its citizens who do not belong to the religion the state manifests (be is Judaism or Islam)? Religiously defined states are a dumb idea. Religious freedom is a good idea. A state that doesn't interfere in the religious beliefs of its citizens, or judge them based on their faith, is a good idea. Is Israel such a state? If it is, then why are millions of Muslims living in walled-in camps with no rights or legal protections within its borders? The problem is precisely that Israel is a Jewish state.
February 27, 2007 3:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 15:19
"Criticism of Israeli Policy v. Anti-Semitism"
Criticism of Israeli policy is anti-semitic when it is, well, anti-semitic. It's not when it's not.
I can disagree with British policies, if I were to supplement that with theories about the especial odiousness of British behavior and that the Queen controls the world banks and such - that's anglo-phobic.
The way this discourse is structured falls into the anti-semites' trap of proactive self-victimization, an attempt to innoculate their opinions from criticism. A typical quality of their discourse is a deliberate ignorance of Arab/Palistinian issues, faults, and the removal of them as actors with choices. The word "Arafat" has been banished from left-wing discourse, do you see any posts here addressing the objective reality of the calls for genocide in the Arab world against Israel?
You will never get a hold on the issue until you explore the left wing identity politics of anti-zionism, a Wwestern phenomenon. This is a remnant of the post-1967 Soviet anti-zionist propaganda campaigns, reflecting Soviet fears of nationalism, religion, failed preditions of Marxist-Leninism, and geopolitical insecurities deriving from their client states' losses to Israel.
99% of the argumentation of the anti-Israel left can be traced to the Soviet propaganda campaigns. There is a fear that examination of the issue taints liberal politics in America, hence the epithet "conservative" thrown at those who dare question the leftist phenomenon of anti-semitism.
The Soviet campaigns were naturally B.S., as understood in Eastern Europe itself. Do you hear any of the anti-semiticish, obsessive denunciations of Israeli policy coming from the governments or people of this region? Left wing anti-semitism only remains in the West, and to be fair, most of the left-wing anti-semites have no perspective that they might be anti-semitic -- fish doesn't feel the water syndrome.
February 27, 2007 2:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 14:42
Neal Jettpace,
Please note that millions of Palestinians-not the meager 100,000 you speak of-were evicted by brutal Jewish/Zionist ethnic cleansing in 1947,1967 and thereafter; Jewish Terrorist gangs such as Argun and Hagana spearheaded the forced exile of Palestinians in 1947-which gangs were lead by the likes of future Israeli prime ministers such as Menahem Begin,Ytzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon. For your info, Shamir was the first person in the ME to introduce bobby trapped cars.
February 27, 2007 2:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 14:16
The real question that should be asked when attempting to determine whether criticism of Israel is anti-semetic is, Why does Israel receive so much attention? When Europeans slaughter Muslims by the thousands (in Bosnia) or by the hundreds of thousands (Chechnya) the world pays no mind. When almost a million are ethnically cleansed in Rwanda, or as is now happening in Sudan, there are not endless editorials and "PostGlobals" chastising the brutal perpetrators of these deeds. It is a fact that American policy in the ME is the focal point of international politics, however, this still does not explain all the attention payed to Israel. American aid does pay for occupation, it is used for the military because of the constant threat that Israel is under. A similar example would be Taiwan, who receives almost the same in military aid as Israel, and is also constantly threatened by China.
February 27, 2007 1:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 13:46
One thing about aid to Israel is that it isn't exactly voluntary. Jimmy Carter promised aid to Israel and Egypt so that they would stop fighting. Those two countries are the largest aid recipients from the US. Now I'd certainly be critical of the forms that said aid takes, but I'm not sure how much of that is written into the Camp David accord. I'd guess that more people would have been harmed in a few more wars between Egypt and Israel than in the other things that have happened.
February 27, 2007 1:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 13:30
We chinese people (and asian people in general) love that you white people fight each other. In the meantime we are arming ourself to the teeth.
After you become weak fighting each other, we'll come and finish you off.
February 27, 2007 1:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 13:25
Rabbi Saperstein, you write, "Ultimately, it is Israelis who will live or die by virtue of the decisions they make."
It seems to me that Isreal as a political entity may be doomed in the long run unless Israel soon adopts a long-term, humanitarian stance toward the Palestinian people, out of enlightened self-interest.
February 27, 2007 1:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 13:22
A thoughtful dialogue among Jews about the sanity and efficacy of Israel’s human rights policies towards the Palestinians does not promote anti-Semitism.
But when we present the façade of a united front in a futile attempt to defend the unconscionable, we promote anti-Semitism. When Jews fail to distinguish between religious Judaism and political Zionism, THAT fuels anti-Semitism.
At one time, American Jews enabled the Civil Rights Movement. Now, most American Jews enable the agenda of the Republican Party, and THAT fuels anti-Semitism!
H. Scott Prosterman
Berkeley
February 27, 2007 1:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 13:06
"When people comment critically upon the creation of what is now modern Israel, they are not denying the right of some Israel, somewhere, to exist. They are criticizing the right of this Israel, currently located, created by the forced expulsion of some 100,000 Palestinian residents, to exist."
Israel is a place that has been so called for over three thousand years. Without its connection to the Jewish people, it and Jerusalem would have no significance.
February 27, 2007 12:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 12:55
"Racism is when a christian arab whose family has lived in land which is now occupied by Israelis cannot return to his or her home, is disallowed from burial rights, or visiting ancestors graves, simply because he is a christian arab"
That expands the notion of what is a race beyond its use in talking about Apartheid in South Africa. Arabs and Jews are not races in the same sense that black Africans and whites are races.
February 27, 2007 12:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 12:53
We have a real problem with criticism of Israel. It's an American problem, probably an international problem. Mainstream media
shy away from any real critical comments of Israel and its policy
in Palestine. There is huge and muscular chorus of Jewish media watchers that stomp on any hint of criticism of Israel and Jew Culture. Major media is afraid of this force. But this suppression of honest critical voices, only makes the problem worse. There is a vast choir of Israel/Jewish critics out there who are hopelessly frustrated, and this frustration becomes anger and self hatred. Isn't this a country noted for free speech and
open expression of ideas? The irony is the Jewish voices are the most open and expressive, yet on the issue of Israel/Jewish and, of course, the Neo-Con's fingers and voices in the current Iraq mess...there is complete silence. The Silence of the Lambs. It is sad and pathetic. America is suffering in silence.
February 27, 2007 12:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 12:24
CANDIDE: http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul explains the fanaticism like being bad explains the mean little kid getting a lump of coal in his Christmas stocking. Both cases are explained by mythical falsehood given truth by well meaning people.
February 27, 2007 9:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 09:36
The Israelis need constructive criticism. Without it they will continue extremist policies awfully reminiscent of those leading up to the Jewish War with Rome in 70AD. Israel needs to be saved from its own fanaticisms.
So does the USA.
February 27, 2007 9:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2007 09:18
David
I should add also that I hope you will be safe and can come home soon.
February 27, 2007 12:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on