All Comments (28)

Soja,
Why is it you take for granted that non Christians do not celebrate with their Christian friends and family?

I am Pagan...I celebrated Yule with my students and group...tomorrow night I will celebrate Christmas eve with both my Christian friends, family and my group...as all will be joining me at my home for a big dinner on Christmas day.

No I do not celebrate Christmas in the religious sense, but as a time to share with those I care for..and all those people who sit at my table have many different beliefs, but they all believe in the good will we all share.

I wish everyone a Happy Holiday because so many religious and cultures have holy days at this time of the year..and I honor their beliefs. I do not have to follow them to show respect../which seems to be in short supply by some Christians.

Why should we all be forced to wish you a Merry Christmas, but you would rather anything then to wish a Pagan a Happy Yule or remark on our reason for the season.

I guess I am more irratated by the arrogance shown by the Christianists then anything else.
terra

How sad that people can no longer be POLITE and GRATEFUL when someone gives them a blessing -- for wishing someone goodnight, safe trip, have a nice day, and happy holidays is, indeed, giving someone a blessing.

I'm behind the times. I had no idea a snarl, a smirk, a growl was a polite response.

Some of us are so very impatient for the day when robotics achieves the Stepford Sales Associate who data-mines the shopping list and compares it to the calendar, sniffs our pheromones, takes a quick brain-scan, then sweetly intones "Happy St Bartholomew's Day Massacre, sir!" to speed us on our way.

Well I am afraid Chester is missing the point. The reason I might say Happy Holidays to a person this time of the year is because I don't know what religion (if any) that person believes / may be celebrating and I want to say something positive to the person. I guess if I was trying to push the faith of many of my friends I could say Merry Christmas.

In pushing my merry CHRISTmas, if the person I am talking to was Jewish they may be thinking, WOW he just told me he is Christian and he thinks I am going to hell because I have not accepted Jesus as the son of God. Follow with me now...I am not looking to try to upset this person, so why in the world would I try to shove my own parochial religious (narrow minded) view in their face ?

My view:

It is not right to go around pushing your beliefs with your comments on faith at the grocery store.

Chester do you think it is right to bring up religious conversations at the grocery store? OR do you think folks just say merry Christmas out of habit -- not buying that whole bible thing about Jesus dying so you may have eternal life ?

I just think it would be heaven if folks kept their religion to themselves.

Do you want to hear what I am thinking when you say "merry xmas?" Probably not. But If I replied I would say something like "I don't buy the whole imaginary friend / religion thing, but if you would like to take a step back into reality to talk / think seriously about it. I'd Love to."

But usually I keep that to myself because I would really hate to offend you no matter what you might believe. Especially when your faith celebrates its main (but far fetched) virgin birth this time of year.

Is this really something to get worked up about? Are the semantics of a polite greeting really that important?

People have been saying "happy holidays" for decades. If you are offended by that, maybe you are just a little too sensitive.

(Incidentally, you are also infringing on the clerk's free speech by demanding that others only greet you using the words that you select. As long as the other person is being polite, they can say what they like. This is America, after all.)

Neochristians hijacked Christ's teachings, our government and now they want to hijack the holidays.

What is wrong with "Happy Holidays"?

People have been saying it for years. Do you go around wishing people Happy Ramadan this time of year? In their war "against the secularists" and to "take this Nation back for Christ" neochristians insist we all recognize and bow to them as the officia US religion. I say read the Constitution, get over it and Happy Holidays to everyone.

What difference does it make? A greeting of good wishes is a good thing. A holiday is a day away from work, away from tedium; a time to rest and relax. People greeting you in a nice, happy way and wishing you well is a positive thing.

People need to get a life and stop splitting hairs, seeing nefarious conspiracies everywhere and so-called "political correctness" around every corner.

Greetings are pretty innocuous things. They acknowledge our presence and establish our humanity. They aren't meant to bridge huge cultural, political or other divides, although sometimes they can. They generally are happy throwaways and don't usually mean a whole lot.

I always say I will celebrate anyone's holidays, though someone once said it is better to celebrate only the joyous, not the sad or tragic ones, if you are going to be multi-culturally sensitive.

Folks should also get over themselves. While we are all unique, none of that is all that important so as to get worked up over something as silly as this.

Must be a slow news day in Washington...

All the best and Happy Holidays (whatever and whichever one you choose/or not choose to celebrate),

Dan Deren

Ok, at authors' insistance, I'll no longer wish people "happy holidays", as that apparently insults put-upon christians. I'll simply tell people to shove it.

who cares?

WHO CARES

WHO CARES

WHO CARES

WHO CARES

The original poster mentioned referring to overuse of the generic "holiday" as bland--I agree.

In the case of Thanksgiving, it's beyond bland, it's lazy.

In the case of the other holidays, nothing wrong with saying Merry Christmas. It's a secular holiday too.

And who could possibly have a problem with Happy New Year? Not even the Chinese, I promise you.

However, saying Happy Holidays to sum up the whole season is a useful shortcut. If people use that--and all the others too--we'll beat blandness.

I was raised atheist; the majority of my friends are atheists, secular Jews, or iffy-on-the-God-thing Unitarians; my parents are two of the more militant atheists out there. So I would be as well-placed as anyone to observe the vast conspiratorial "attack on Christmas" that right-wing talk show hosts keep going on about - if it existed, that is. In all my years of non-Christian living, I've never met a single person who takes offense at "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Thanksgiving" or what-have-you, or who's lobbied anyone to stop using those greetings.

It's true that some businesses try to make ALL their customers feel welcome by using Happy Holidays. There are many celebrations at this time of year and as someone noted above, you can't very well quiz people on their religion or cultural practices when they walk into your store. This is simply good business, not an "attack on Christians." The Postal Service can issue many stamps and let the customers choose. I can't see an equivalent way for checkout clerks to offer a menu of potential greetings to people in line!

I'm sure that if you had just wished the clerk a Happy Thanksgiving she would have smiled back at you and you both would have had a moment of "holiday spirit" rather than an occasion for upset.

OH JESUS MARIA PLEEZE, MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING! WHO REALLY CARES? MOST PEOPLE KNOW BY NOW THAT ALL RELIGIONS ARE SCAMS, TOTAL FRAUDS! HAVE A GREAT 2008!

Dear Professor Gillis

Thank you for making such an important point. Why should Christians be apologetic about wishing everyone a Merry Christmas when the holiday is clearly to mark Christmas? The only alternative would be to ask every single person what their religion or non-religion was and then wish them whatever they preferred. Oh what a tedious affair. I do hope the non-Christians will be more gracious about the fact that when a holiday is for a particular festival it is perfectly alright to wish everyone.

Why don't the non-Christians join in the spirit of the season instead and celebrate with their Christian friends, inviting their Christian friends to whatever it is that they themselves celebrate, whether religious or non-religious.

I think wishing everyone Happy Holidays for fear of offending 15% of non-Christians is taking political correctness to an unpolitical extreme.

Wishing you a wonderful Christmas season and a Happy New Year 2008!

May America continue to celebrate Christmas and may all American Christians have the courage to celebrate without apologies what is important to them and invite non-Christians to share in their joy and cheer of the season! May non-Christians celebrate with the Christians and invite Christians to their non-Christian celebrations!

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

People too quickly forget that the freedom of religion we enjoy was placed into our constitution by Christians. Many people today feel that fundamentalist Christians are too influential, but in fact they are an identifiable political segment because they are less influential.

In 1964, prayer was eliminated from public schools. That has upset some people for more than a generation and given rise to the likes Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. It is not their rise as a force in politics that makes them visible though. It is religion's ouster from the status quo that makes the fundamentalists visible.

Anyway, we recognize that the way a thing is said can have great influence on its meaning. When someone wishes another person a "happy holiday" in order to make a statement about his or her own view on religion generally or Christianity specifically, then it is not an act of good will. Likewise with those who flaunt their religion to others.

Getting wound up about how someone wishes you a nice time, no matter what the holiday, is rather stupid and narrow minded. The clerk could have not wished you any additional goodwill beyond a polite `thank you'. Instead, this person tried to be nicer to you than was required. So what do you do? Instead of taking the gesture in a positive way, and thinking perhaps they meant the whole holiday season of Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah, Bohdi Day, and New Years, you get wound up because they were not specific enough to one day.

Way to go there, really intelligent reaction that one.

Next time maybe you ought to lighten up a bit an get a life. Here's a hint, other people are not telepathic, and unless you're wearing a sign saying what your religious or cultural preferences are, they have no way to know.

I agree completely. Somehow Christ is being erased from Christmas - which is the Nativity.
If you were a Martian and came to Earth on December 25th you would think earthlings worship a fat bearded man in a red suit, that other gods are snowmen and elves ............

I agree completely. Somehow Christ is being erased from Christmas - which is the Nativity.
If you were a Martian and came to Earth on December 25th you would think earthlings worship a fat bearded man in a red suit, that other gods are snowmen and elves ............

Happy Every Day! Ya Ya!

Happy Yuletide,

Our Creator has begun the lengthening of daylight and there isn't a thing Christians, Mormons, Jews or anyone else can do about it. Pagan prayers and offerings will rule as they have from time immemorial.

No amount of Christian, Muslim, or Jewish prayers will prevail over our celebrations tonight or the Sun rise tomorrow.

What fun!! Presents! Santa Claus! Whoops, did we pagans co-opt a Christian word - Saint Nick?? - just a translation of Julenissen? - hmmmm - no matter - Pagan and Christian children world-wide are waiting to hear the jingle bells of Dasher,Dancer, Comet, and the others.

Yeahright,

When you finish yawning, please supply the creditials that allow you to critique the studies of John Meier and Gerd Lüdemann or any of the other NT exegetes in the references noted previously,

e.g. http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/369_Star_of_Revelation

>>"Gerd Lüdemann

>>John P. Meier

If I might put my opinion in of the writings of these two:

Hogwash and balderdash. Onion-heads with a penchant for overall repeating what the writers of previous centuries wrote. Misled in the mire that is referred to as man's religous knowledge.

2 overall unknowns to many...mere men...and trained in religous error in the first place.

((((((((Yawn)))))))))))

Professor Gillis,

As per many NT exegetes to include Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists, there is "No Historic Reason for the Season or Holyday/Holiday".

There was no Virgin birth.
http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/026_Jesus_Virginally_Conceived

And there was no Star of Bethlem.

http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/369_Star_of_Revelation

"Gerd Lüdemann

Commenting on the infancy narratives overall, Luedemann [Jesus, 124-29] concludes that Luke and Matthew represent "two equally unhistorical narratives." He cites the occurrence of a miraculous heavenly sign at key points in the life of Mithridates VI in a history written by Justinus (active in the reign of Augustus, 2 BCE to 14 CE). "

John P. Meier

"Meier [Marginal Jew I,211ff and 376] considers these traditions to be "largely products of early Christian reflection on the salvific meaning of Jesus in the light of OT prophecies" and concludes that their historicity is "highly questionable."

Professor Gillis, what sayest thou about these conclusions????

I don't really see much of a push to get rid of references to Christianity, or for holidays to become secularized. I do see, however, a small vocal minority of Christians overacting to a small less vocal minority of other folk over the issue of plurality. The Bill O'Reilly's of the world seem to think that that means having a Baptist as well as a Catholic. The rest of us are not amused. Further more, I don't get how (should this go down some whacky path) that the removal of government references to religious holidays changes the way you, as a private citizen, celebrate them. So what if there's a "Holiday Tree lighting" at the White House? How does that change how YOU celebrate Christmas in your own home? And isn't the home/family what this holiday is supposed to be about?

Heheheh, ... you know, if the Christian half of my family can add a certain story from the *Pagan* half of the family from Turkey day to the holiday lexicon, after all this...

You can deal. You fret about 'PC words,' while essentially advocating the alienation of family members against each other on the insistence that holidays must exclusively-be observances of one single religion.

Seriously. If *my* family can do it, *you can work it out.

Really.

It used to be, sir, that you could celebrate Thanksgiving without it being a sign of being affiliated with the aggressive Christian Religious Right.

Pagans, in fact, celebrate Thanksgiving, in New England. We even have our own traditions of 'Orphan Thanksgiving,' which is 'Thanksgiving celebrated among those who were cast out by their Christian families or otherwise couldn't be there.

About the only difference between that Thanksgiving and a Christian one is we *actually thank the *turkey.*

If people are afraid to say 'Happy Thanksgiving,' it's not because of the religiously-diverse, ...it's because of Christian supremacists *turning* the holiday greeting into religious supremacism.

Sad fact, but, you being unused to the nomenclature of those not-wishing to offend, perhaps to excess, has nothing on those who would use the holidays to exclude and abuse.