All Comments (47)

God is omnipotent.

Dear Mr Colson

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 2008!

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

Here again we someone that would have us believe that Judeo-Christian ethics and Christianity have been a blessing to the world and that the progress in this world is due only to the existence of Christianity. It is also the appropriation of history by a religous group. Religion in general and Christianity specifically has been a plague on the progress of civilization and on the happiness of man. Robert Heinlein noted that violence does indeed solve problems, often permanently, and Christianity has used violence to exterminate, oppress and suppress Muslims, Cathars, Jews, African Americans ins slavery, Aztecs, and Inca's, to name just a few. Let's not forget the Inquisition, the Crusades, the violent conquest of the America's (just plain robbery in the name of God), and many other acts of brutality in the name of Jesus. Judeo Christian ethics and Christianity are not the only legitimate ethical, moral or spiritual systems. If, by their fruits ye shall know them, this is a belief system that should not be celebrated, but refuted at every instance, and in the same way the we oppose fascists of every stripe. It is not daft to oppose such a horrible system and its use of public facilities to promote and impose its religous structure on the rest of us. Tolerance says that if people wish to engage in public religous displays and activities let them do it on their own private property. I will keep my secularism on mine and the public will be much better off.

Define horrible...define false...running in circles yet? The same God who ignores the suffering of yet another starving child, who allows him to die with his own divine word being brought to him? Yes, thank him. Thank him in the glory that he bestows on all unfortunate enough to be unable to afford him. Some God.

Tim,

The "gifts" were given to us by the scribing embellishers (Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Peter and James).

The reality of it all:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him..." - Colossians 3:16

Yes, without Christ there is nothing - not even capitalism. Imagine what the world would be like without the gift of the Savior of Mankind and God's love expressed through Him. It would be a horrible place ruled by false religions, like Islam and paganism and atheism and secular humanist. There would be no freedom. Yes, this is the season to thankful for Christ. For not only is this world a better place but there is the hope of eternal life. We have a merciful and gracious God indeed and giving thanks to Him for Christ, the creator of all, is the reason for the season. Thank you CC for reminding us that while we may give each other insignificant gifts in honor of Christ's birth, he has given us everything.

VOTE: ((( Peace Love Rockn Roll nRap Mitt_ROMNEY for Prez 08 YEA!. Happy Every Day. ))))))))))

Ok shall we ignore him...no cookies, no attention, maybe he will go away.

terra

Oh no.Jacob Josevz is back.

"PAGANism" is not a Religion.." said by our Prez, Mr. G.W. BUSH, from the Executive Branch. But on the Other Hand,

The Local Fed Court(s) only see Wiccaan(s) in 'Sincerity' form and thus must be 'nice' in respect of the Pagan(s) trying to put "the People' to a 'religious Test' of the Provoking kind!

Amrica & this 'Holy Cosmic Space-Ship, of which Momma Poppa NEBULAE begott Us & U.S. et al, and so [today!, aka APOCALYPSE now, ya ya.] needs less RELIGION , un Sweet Sweet U.S. of A., and thus more APOCALYPTARIAN HUMATES that 'must-replace:

ALL, EVERY & ANY "Pre-Apocalyptic Ancient Religions & of their Man made old folk Lores & man made [zero Fiat-Lux made] EPOCHS!

ABOLISH, All Forighn 'Stae Sponsored Religions in Sweet Sweet U.S. of A.!

EMBARGO, ALL Greek & Roman "Ancient State-Religions" [i.eg., PAGANism, Catholicsm, Protestantism, Pentecostism, CHARISMATICS? etc..!]

WE "the People" need LESS foriegn Religion in AMERIC, never More!

WHEEREFORE: For same reason The U.S. Gov can restrict & minimized the Holyt Cosmic American Cosnstitutional right to file for a "HUMATE WRONGS against a HUMATE RIGHT via the 'HABIUS CORPUS"

Then the U.S.A. Government 'shall restrict & lessen respect for Imported & Forign "NOT MADE IN AMERICA , as RELIGION (system(s)!

Kick or Abolish-out all foerign Religions on Space Ship & start in Sweet Sweet America 1st!

CATHOLICS 1st, since they are the richest of them All on Earth, & the biggest MURDERERS of Earth!

HISTORY isd O.U.R. JURY! Ya Ya! Do not be in denial!

I'm sure I'm much nearer to Lepidopteryx' worldview than to Colson's, but I think that C was drawing on respected thinkers. Max Weber, perhaps the father of modern sociology, regarded 'the Protestant ethic' as the foundation of the capitalist world and others have followed him in this. I don't think that there's much doubt that the translation of the Bible into modern languages had considerable cultural and political effects, many positive. Mind you, I would be prepared to accept good wishes, if sincerely offered, in any ideological form. If the apparent good wishes and seasonal greetings are offered in an aggressive spirit, thinly veiling a demand that the greeter's view that his ideology is a good one be accepted, then they don't really amount to a sincere good wish.

Response to ANONY & that 'Bertrand Rusell stuff.

Remember: The Vatican had their own Prison System(s), not just during the Bastill days of pre-Napolian monarchy day's, before turning them [false G-d representing monarchy's] on thier 'religious jealous' ugly heads!

Now it's time for the 'Ragg Heads' of Middle east to get a taste of a "Modern Napolian" named G.W. Bush, aka 'the Push Pushy in the Bushy wawooshy of them 'hashish' smoking mid Easterners, opium smoking Afghani's & elsewhere. ya ya.

John Stephens - good post! Jesus wasn't a
Christian anyway, was he?? It seems to me the philosophy attributed to him started and stopped
right there. It is also apparent that the Abrahamic faiths have always been big on structure, rites, rituals and dogma - the red meat of the clergy so to speak. Execution and elucidation of the true message at the heart of religion is another matter.

To my mind only the mystics of the ages have been on the right track all along - actually validating the deeper meaning of religion (and spirituality) through their own experience (which is mostly at varience with doctrine and dogma - thus the history of their ongoing persecution by the followers of orthodoxy).

The wilderness is surely the cathedral of the divine -

Thank you, Anonymous and Waldo (or whoever) for posting the Betrand Russell quote. As a Christian, I am in complete agreement "that the Christian religion,as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world."

What has passed for the Christian faith since about 300 AD reminds me of George Orwell's novel, "1984," in which language has been perverted to reflect the reality imposed by the state.

In The Revelation of Jesus Christ, there is an allegory about Satan descending to earth to pursue and destroy the woman and her child. The woman fled into the wilderness to escape.

What it means simply is that the Christian faith was forced to retreat before the demonic elements of pseudo-Christianity, the spirit of Antichrist.

Christians were slaughtered up until about 300 AD and, like Jesus, they did not resist. "They loved not their lives unto death." If you don't read much, rent and watch the old movie, "Quo Vadis" starring Robert Taylor. That will give you a good snapshot. Then, around 300 AD the unholy Church of Rome became ascendant and Augustine, a so-called early church father, came up with the false doctrine of "just wars." That changed everything. Now, "Christians" could kill in the name of Jesus, and even wage wars. Crusades were doing God's will. Grotesque torture was acceptable. Burning heretics at the stake freed their souls to ascend to heaven. The Catholic Church ruled Europe for about 300 years with an iron fist, no less terrifying than Nazism. Murder, intrigue, bribery, prostitution, extortion and a host of crimes were rampant.

From the Catholic Church came the Protestant Movement. Martin Luther, a rabid anti-Semite, protested specific policies and practices of the Catholic Church, but he essentially believed in the "true church" or Catholicism. From the dragon were born snakes, so to speak.

Religious wars followed for centuries. Catholics and Protestants fought right up to the modern era in Northern Ireland. Religious persecution and intolerance found its way to America, where Rhode Island was established as a haven from the insanity.

In our modern era, we get things like the Lebanese Christian Army. One of Sodamn Insane's military generals is said to be a Christian. King George II says he's a Christian, then launches an illegal invasion into Iraq on a preemptive strike, authorizes rendition and torture, initiates spying on the American public, and promotes the welfare of the filthy rich over the crushed hopes of the poor.

What is forgotten in all this is Jesus. He never killed anyone, neither did he advocate killing anyone, nor did he sanction killing anyone. He laid down his life rather than kill and commanded his disciples to follow his example. He saw to the welfare of the downtrodden and poor. He healed the sick, cleansed the leper, raised the dead. He never had two nickels (or mites) to rub together. He railed against the religious establishment and never castigated the sinner, contrary to the host of nitwits like Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, and all the television evilangelicals. Jesus was a radical, a rebel, and a hero.

Dostoevski's brilliant story entitled The Brothers Karamozov, speaks of this evil dichotomy. Jesus comes back to earth and is immediately arrested and imprisoned. The Grand Inquisitor speaks to him in his cell and explains that the church no longer needs him. It has all the things it desires without him, such as unlimited power and wealth.

Imagine claiming that Ghandi was a thugee, advocating killing British troops and citizens in India. Imagine claiming that Bhudda taught that Nirvana was found in violence. Imagine claiming that Jesus condones all the madness and barbarity foisted upon the world that makes countless persons despise the very name Christianity.

Me, I'm never found in churches, those great white-washed selpuchres and mausoleums where assemble the congregation of the dead. I spend my time worshipping in the wilderness.

I dunno, Priver. If these Christian culture warriors would *really* measure their actions by an understanding of the word *daft,* we might just be able to have a decent holiday, here.

I know where I'll be.

I posted the Russell piece above.

From Bertrand Russell;

"There is an idea-that we should all be wicked if we did not hold to the Christian religion.
It seems to me that the people who have held to it have been for the most part extremely wicked.
You find this curious fact,that the more intense has been the religion of any period,and the more profound has been the dogmatic belief,the greater has been the cruelty,
and the worse has been the state of affairs.
In the so-called ages of faith,when men really did believe the Christian religion in all its completeness,there was the inquisition with its tortures;
there were millions of unfortunate women burned as witches,and there was every kind of cruelty practiced upon all sorts of people in the name of religion.
You find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in humane feeling,every improvement in the criminal law,every step toward the diminution of war,
every step towards better treatment of the coloured races,
or every mitigation of slavery,every moral progress that there has been in the world,has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world. I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion,as organized in its churches,has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world."

Bertrand Russell "Why I Am Not A Christian".page 27

Super Stupid?
How many do you know?

Pagans are Super Stupid!

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."

-Thomas Jefferson

Oh lamentations! The poor, wretched Christian minority of the USA, victims of the suppression of teh liberal humanists.

One glorious day in the future they will finally be free to publicly spread the word of the magical sky wizard- probably when Ayatollah al-Huckabee is elected Pres.

"The twelve hours of partying every day followed by twelve hours of "fasting" aka sleep."

Sounds more like fraternity brothers in college to me! Even a Catholic-turned-Pagan like me knows that Muslims fast during the daytime then break their fast at night.

Oh, and Jesus invented the Pythagorean Theorem, too. He just called it the "Pythagorean" Theorem because he wanted to share the credit with Pythagoras. :D

i'll give colson one thing, he was the original "born again" fundamentalist politico. long before falwell and robertson took it over and refined it into the dispicable movement it became, he was there, smiting the liberal philistines and canaanites.

i lay no claim to any particular insight as to god's political preferences. that i leave to the colsons, the dobsons, and the bauers of this world. in the back of my mind however, i am convinced that these phonies know as much about the mind of jesus christ as george w. bush knows about quantum mechanics.

Chucky has a republican disease...selected memory.
That Pagans found 7 planets...modern man found 2 more and had to give one of those back.

That cleanliness had alot to do with illness and baths were a daily observance, when for Christians in the middle ages takeing too many baths was a way to let the devil in. One way they found those they called Witches is if they took too many baths.

The Pagans that built Stonehenge knew the movement of the sun and moon..and celebrated the Equinoxes and Soltices.

The ancients built the pryamids and scientists still are stumped on how it was done..and the Great Pryamid as well as the temples in South America are placed perfectly to celebrate the movment of sun and moon.

The alchemists that followed the occult practises became the Scientists of today. Alchemy was the forefather of Chemisry.

The calender, agriculture, metalurgy, ship building,trade, religion,healing, philosophy...name it it started with the Pagans. Christianity climbed on the shoulders of those ancients and , like normal, claimed it as their own.
Chucky is either uneducated or a hypocrite...umm I wonder which it is?
terra

If we consider nativity scenes as just more fictional accounts about good people and myths (e.g. Santa Clause and his elves, Gabriel, Moroni et al), "do no harm to such scenes" or to the associated commentary. Even pagans have their fictional accounts to celebrate on their hallowed day of Halloween.

from: http://members.tripod.com/~TaraMiller/halloween.html

"Halloween: The Pagan Festival of Samhain

Paganism, and Druidry especially, recognise eight feasts durring the yearly cycle or the Eight Fold Year. These celebrations are based upon a deep and mysterious connection between our individual lives and the source of this planet’s life. Like any other religious ocassion, these Pagan holidays are marked by special observances.

The most popular festival, in ancient times as well as modern Pagan society, is Samhain or Samhuinn, (pronounced Sou’in) the Celtic new year.

Halloween Myths

1) The pumpkin God, Samhain ( pronounced Sam’hane) DOES NOT exist.

2) Pagans DO NOT sacrifice babies or animals on Halloween. The Wiccan Rede states "Do what thou wilst, but harm none."

3) Pagans DO NOT worship the Devil or Satan on Halloween.

4) PAGANS ARE NOT SATANISTS.

These myths have been perpetuated by people who have seen too many horror movies and the Christian idea of horrific and mythical forms of Satanism. "

And contemporary Wiccan witches (commentators?) note:

And contemporary Wiccans note:

"Also, some Wiccans feel that the tradition is offensive to "real witches" for promoting stereotypical caricatures of "wicked witches".[45] However, other Neopagans, perhaps most of them, see it as a harmless holiday in which some of the old traditions are celebrated by the mainstream culture, albeit in a different manner

Hmmm, the star of Ramadan??

The twelve hours of partying every day followed by twelve hours of "fasting" aka sleep.

"Capitalism is a product of Christian principles about freedom and market."

Huh?? Of all the hair-brained, idiotic things the bible has been used to justify, this one takes the cake.

Apparently Mr. Colson's jailhouse conversion didn't include any actual theology.

Thanks, Chuck, for shooting your own argument down. As you put it, “To refuse to discuss or recognize religious convictions in the public square is to deny the very nature of our humanity. People are irresistibly religious, always have been, and in my view always will be.” That’s exactly the point: this is your view. It’s not mine, not in whole and not in part. Neither of us is about to change our minds. And the public square is a place where argument is supposed to change minds. It’s about compromise and logic. I respect your right to have uncompromisable, absolute beliefs, irresistibly, always. Just don’t demand from me that they be mine.

Well, I agree with the title anyway:

"'Daft' Is The Right Word"

Ah, Mr Colson provides us with yet another article in his ongoing series of Pixie Dust-Enabled History. Yes, with god, all things are indeed possible, if not necessarily true or even remotely believable.

Which brings me to a horrifying realization: for every poster above who took the few seconds required to destroy Mr Colson's a-historic fantasies, there are hundreds of thousands of Xians out there who believe every word of Colson's faux-history to be absolutely true.

Scary stuff!

During His time on Earth, Jesus was often referred to as "The Father of the Internet".

Christianity also invented sliced bread.

Jihadist, I am an Indian. This piece is too funny to be taken seriously. Methinks Mr. Colson was trying to spread some holiday cheer using the avenues of Humor and hyperbolic statements.

Merry X'mas and Happy Holidays!!!

Chip,

"Before Jesus people just pointed at things and made grunting noises."

HA! This ACTUALLY made me LOL!

priceless. Here's the best part.
"Science itself is the product of Christians in the Reformation era who rejected the Aristotelian supposition of an eternal universe, arguing instead that God created everything; therefore everything was free for exploration. The inductive method replaced the deductive and the scientific method was born."

Mr. Colson talks about the inductive method replacing the deductive method leading to Science as we see it. Chucky deduces that since Galileo, Italian, was responsible for advocating the Earth is round, Science is the by-product of Christianity. Doesnt matter if the Church was responsible for killing all such heretics!!! Talk about Irony.

Western Civilization was indeed sculpted by Christianity, but I daresay that the Christian (universal IMHO) concepts of equality and tolerance did not influence the western civilization until the end of the 20th century.

And btw, Gandhi, through his actions, not just words, embodies Jesus more than anyone else in the world.
"I think it would be a good idea."
Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization

priceless. Here's the best part.
"Science itself is the product of Christians in the Reformation era who rejected the Aristotelian supposition of an eternal universe, arguing instead that God created everything; therefore everything was free for exploration. The inductive method replaced the deductive and the scientific method was born."

Mr. Colson talks about the inductive method replacing the deductive method leading to Science as we see it. Chucky deduces that since Galileo, Italian, was responsible for advocating the Earth is round, Science is the by-product of Christianity. Doesnt matter if the Church was responsible for killing all such heretics!!! Talk about Irony.

Western Civilization was indeed sculpted by Christianity, but I daresay that the Christian (universal IMHO) concepts of equality and tolerance did not influence the western civilization until the end of the 20th century.

And btw, Gandhi embodies Jesus more than anyone else in the world.
"I think it would be a good idea."
Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization

I can't believe Chuck left out so many important facts from his informative history lesson, like how Christians invented language! Before Jesus people just pointed at things and made grunting noises.

Methinks Mr. Colson should step away from the revisionist history section of his local bookstore.

I was going to second Llepidopteryx's first post until I read Jared's. I second "prick".

" Our religious convictions profoundly influence our public behavior whether we talk about it or not; for many like me it is the primary influence on our values, attitudes, and behavior."

I can't believe you wrote that.
Religious convictions didn't seem to have influenced
your behavior too much,otherwise you wouldn't have ended up in jail.

Religious convictions are usually death insurance,
a 'get out of death' card.Just believe the claptrap
and you get to live forever. Few believers actually have their beliefs matched by their behavior.
As you know yourself,the jails are full of religious believers.
Once in my life,many years ago,I actually did meet
one Christian whose behavior was wonderful and totally unselfish.Never met one since.
People believe from fear.Fear of being dead.Fear of being sick.Fear of being alone.
People believe from entirely selfish reasons.
I long ago stopped the childish idea that religious folk are necessarily 'nice'. That's daft.

Mr. Colson...

Could you clarify what expressions of religion are being forbidden in the public sphere? I'm seeing more than ever these days.

Perhaps you're referring to attempts to prevent Christians from using the organs of government to proselytize or enforce their views on free thinkers. If so, I'd like to know how preventing someone from claiming to speak for god from the courtroom, congress or white house is inhibiting free exercise of religion by good Christians such as yourself.

Did Colson actually just say that the free market is a Christian principle?

lol

My god Chuck Colson is completely insane.

Christianity is the basis of capitalism?

Science?

What a daft prick.

I think Christians invented pulling things out of thin air, claiming it to be true, and then preaching it to everyone else as truth, because that is what Mr. Colson is doing with these ridiculous 'facts.'

Lepipdoteryx:)

Merry meet. Mr. Colson saying "Christ is the star of the show at Christmas" brings to my mind musicals such as "Jesus Christ Superstar" and "Godspell" where Jesus is the "star" of those shows.

Nothing from Mr. Colson on what Jesus taught and to remember on Christmas Day. Instead, he went into a Christiancentric version of history on philosophy and capitalism among others, which is quite daft to read and not worth correcting here. Indians and Chinese will find his essay here interesting.

No further comments from me on what you said about Mr. Colson and his knowledge on other faiths.

Happy holidays and Happy New Year to you.

Thanks and best regards
"J"

J,

This guy knows so little about the religion he claims to practice, do you really expect him to know his arse from his elbow about any other religion?

Mr. Charles Colson,

You stated : "Yes, Christ is the star of the show at Christmas as is Yahweh at Hanukkah as is Muhammad at Ramadan."

Prophet Muhammad PBUH is not the "star" of the show at Ramadan. God is. During Ramadan, one is to reflect and contemplate on one's life and to increase charities and perform charitable acts to those in need.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you.

Thank you and regards

"J"

Paganplace:
Ah, Lepi, this guy's so backwards he must see himself going around corners. :)

Yeah, but it must be nice to be able to style the hair at the back of your head without needing two mirrors.

Ah, Lepi, this guy's so backwards he must see himself going around corners. :)

"Anyone who cares to study would see that Christianity was, building on the works of ancient Greece and Rome, the formative influence for western civilization."

The Greeks and Romans had civilizations long before Jesus came along.

"Capitalism is a product of Christian principles about freedom and market."

Say what? Again, there were many different economic and trade systems in place long before Jesus came along. He did not invent capitalism.

"Our higher education system was pioneered by Christians."

Depends on how you're defining "pioneered." Early funding in this country - maybe. But again, there were universities long before Jesus.

"The idea of liberal democracy grew out of the monasteries and the nation cities of Northern Italy."

The Romans had representative democracy long before Jesus.

"Science itself is the product of Christians in the Reformation era who rejected the Aristotelian supposition of an eternal universe, arguing instead that God created everything; therefore everything was free for exploration."

Where do you get this garbage? Much of the knowledge we have about our solar system was discovered long before Jesus. Mankind has always striven to understand how the world works. Where do you get the idea that belief in an eternal universe constitutes a ban on exploration and investigation of its workings?

"The inductive method replaced the deductive and the scientific method was born."

Actually, modern science uses both inductive and deductive reasoning, since neither alone is sufficient for all purposes.