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Rev Dell:

I asked you an honest question a day and a half ago, why no reply?

Rev Dell castigates those who think "that the apostle's were too ignorant to know what Jesus meant".

Actually, Jesus says almost exactly the same thing about the Apostles in several places.

(On the other hand, I don't feel energetic enough to debate about people whose attestation in history is about as solid as Sir Lancelot -- or maybe Doctor Watson).

It is incorrect to say that all Christians have the Creeds in common, since that is one of the principle causes of the schism between Catholics and the Orthodox (along with how to compute the day of Easter).

Rev Dell,

How exactly do we know what Jesus actually said? Did he have a stenographer following him around? None of the gospels were written and translated until Jesus was dead for years.

Even with today's technology of video and audio proof there is still considerable argument in our society as to who said what...and what was ACTUALLY meant, etc (especially in politics).

So I ask you: How do you know what was actually said?

Rev Dell
If I recall correctly, Sola Scriptura is a Roman Catholic concept.
I'm not going to get into a long argument because I'm sure your knowledge of scripture is way beyond mine, but where (in the book) does it say we should worship this book?

The important point:

There is no religion in the Spirit State aka Heaven. The Gate is open to anyone of good standing with or without the assistance of B16 and/or Latin Masses.

I beg every one's pardon but if the apostles, the 12 that were sent into the world by Jesus Himself, and Jesus would be God manifested in the flesh, neither they nor Jesus would agree with anything written in your replies. Scripture is the ONLY standard by which salvation is wrought. It tells you how, and why, and by whom. It also tells us that by listening to the apostle's doctrine we are sure to expose anything false for it will not agree with whta they said. If you want to know how they did it then read Acts. Traditions are not accepted by God and creeds are extra biblical. It is somwhat arrogant to rewrite the apostle's (and Jesus') doctrine in succeeding generations because one thinks that the apostle's were too ignorant to know what Jesus meant. All the examples of people getting saved in Acts then, by tradition, would say that they were all in error with what they taught. We are warned not to change the gospel THEY taught. As a minister I reiterate that warning. Straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it. Sorry to cross your theology, no I guess I am not. God will not accept manmade sacrifice or retooled salvation. Unless Christianity gets back to scripture alone many will be very suprised on judgment day. See what the apostles did in Acts time after time and you will also know what to do., There is still truth in the Book. You are never going to get God to accept the world's view of His book. We need to get our doctrine exclusively from the Bible instead of trying to make the Bible fit our preconceived doctrines. You can all argue if you like but GOd's way is His way and you are never going to get away wiht changing it. I want that all everywhere would repent. But 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Notice you have to OBEY it. Chuck Colson is trying to wrap all denominations together into one church but you tell me...is there a single one that teaches Baptism in Jesus name alone and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, living seperated from the worldly ways and living a truly holy life apart from societies filth? Maybe but I have seen one yet. Protestant churches, even the oldest is less than 500 years old. You can ignore this, or get angry at this but I feel I have to implore you to realize that the gospel is exampled in Acts and agreed upon by all 12 apostles and Paul. Paul did it the same way. If the doctrine you teach for Salvation differs from that of the apostles then the Bible says let that person be accursed. THe Bible and the apostles were exclusive. We should be too. I will answer serious questions but will not argue the point. The Word is already settled in heaven. GOd will not let you or I ever change it. Tradition will kill you as well as vain deceit. That is why God calls for the humble.
I hope you consider this for the Bible ALONE tells you all you need to know, do and what to expect when you receive it. Warning given so I have done my duty.

Good day

M.Ouatt - You are exactly right. At the very least, being born-again should give Colson a second chance. I try to limit my criticisms to his (and other people's) current actitivies.

Barb, what do RMC and LCMS stand for? I think I get the point of your story, but using code names clouds the issue.
I apologize right here to any I may have confused with terminology (like B16 for Pope Benedict XVI or using his civilian name Joseph Ratzinger). All we have here in common is language: We believe all different things for all different reasons. It would behoove us all to be as clear as possible.
Misunderstandings frustrate me. If I ever use a term that is confusing, either because I've overly abbreviated something or because I seem to be using a word or phrase differently than you are used to -- PLEASE ASK!!

TO BRAMBLETON,
I wonder whether you know what being born again means? Your jugement of Colson is totally out of christian ethics. Remember that we all, including the first disciples of the Lord Jesus, were sinners like Colson. We were all crooks, murderers, lying felons, and whatever bad we could before committing our lives to Jesus. And we are now justified by His blood. Please, don't only read your Bible, but study the Word of God and let the Holy Ghost enlighten your understanding.

Just a friendly reminder.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul

When Jesus came to your rescue, after the judge had pronounced your sentence I'm sure you felt a lot better. Now you need to ponder your next sentence when you will again be a condemned man on your way to be with Jesus and His heavenly Father, the angel that would be God, Lucifer. Who will soothe your jangled nerves that spring from guilt then?

Just a little something to cheer you up. There's no hurry. Hell ain't half full yet.

Mr. Colson:

"to preserve this eternal unchanging Truth"

Good men must risk more in finding new ways to speak the Truth to a lost and unbelieving world.

I am praying for you.

to all -MUST READ From the WSJ:

In Europe, GOD is (not) dead.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118434936941966055.html

First, I remember when my kids (LCMS) performed in a musical at our church. Our newly converted neighbors -- Evangelicals to RMC -- would not allow their daughter to continue in the musical because they were converting.

So sad that they did not realize the musical was a RMC musical. Not one word was changed...only the church attendance of the actors.

Orthodoxy only becomes alarming when it blinds us to the True One who died for us.

Never take your eyes off the cross. All else will work itself out.

First, I remember when my kids (LCMS) performed in a musical at our church. Our newly converted neighbors -- Evangelicals to RMC -- would not allow their daughter to continue in the musical because they were converting.

So sad that they did not realize the musical was a RMC musical. Not one word was changed...only the church attendance of the actors.

Orthodoxy only becomes alarming when it blinds us to the True One who died for us.

Never take your eyes off the cross. All else will work itself out.

Brambleton:

All I can say is, "Just do it." Read the works of the early writers, men who sat at the feet of the Apostles (or those who followed them a generation or two later), such as:

the Didache (c. AD 90)

Clement of Rome (c. AD 96)

Ignatius of Antioch (c. AD 110-115)

Polycarp of Smyrna (c. AD 150)

Justin the Martyr (c. AD 150)

Ireneus of Lyons (c. AD 170)

Doing so will change your life, especially if you are a Baptist.

First Colson was the nastiest little hatchet man the crook Nixon ever had. Colson said he would "walk over his grandmother" to gain political points. Then he was a lying felon, exposed for what he was in the Nixon impeachment debacle. Now, turned as sanctimonious in absolution as any of the other Elmer Gantrys of the GOP stable, he is telling us what we must accept as the Truth and why we should blindly follow his version, the "orthodox" one of course. Having claimed salvation, he has made a second career as a phony preacher and prison evangelist. What bunkum, what hokum. Yea, verily, beware of false prophets, we are warned. This GOP guy -- like the sly druggie Reverend Haggard, the pederast Mark Foley, the unctuous diamond merchant Pat Robertson, the family-values Senator Vitter who peregrinated through the best bordellos of the South -- should be shoved, pleading and squealing, onto the ash heap of history. Let true Christians shun their very names and remember their hypocrisy and cant.

Alan,

How exactly is the Christian religion being "forced" upon you?

Gacca,

As a Baptist, I would be interested if you could elaborate further on your comment.

Before one preaches about truth, one should be certain one knows what truth is.

Jan wrote: "Let's show the World who He is."

Jan - I won't force my religion on you if you promise not to force yours on me. Faith is a very private thing and when one person or group goes forcing theirs on another, they remind me of the Taliban.

How shall we know the truth when we hear it? Will it be because our hearts thrill or because we 'know' something is true? One aspect of the Truth is that it jives with experience. Sometimes, I sense a disconnect between the liturgy and my life, as if I am avoiding a confrontation of sorts. Then I must examine my heart with the help of the Holy Spirit to see what is amiss. This is something only I and the Holy Spirit can accomplish together. All the pronouncements of the Church Universal make not one whit of difference in my life unless they enter into my life. I wonder when the Church and theologians will realize that and get back to preaching the Gospel. There is more Truth to be had there than in arguing one passage over another. Let's come together; let's celebrate the gift Christ has given to us. Let's show the World who He is.

In Christianity tradition is the container of truth. It isn't truth itself but the vessel in which truth resides. As tradition changes, the trick is how to extract truth from the old vessel (based on a former worldview) and insert it in the new vessel (based on a modern, or postmodern worldview) without distorting the truth itself. The job of the theologian, whether in liturgy or doctrine is accomplishing this difficult task.

Chuck writes:

"First off, as a Baptist I am hardly an expert on liturgy or the history of liturgy."

Well, Chuck, there is nothing that says a Baptist can't become "an expert on liturgy or the history of liturgy".

And Chuck continues:

"But the real question being posed is the necessity of maintaining continuity between our worship and the way in which our ancestors in the faith worshiped."

Yes, indeed, and because of this, should a Baptist become such an expert, he may well find that he can no longer remain a Baptist, as many of us who are former Baptists (or formerly of Baptist-like churches) have ourselves discovered.

You seem to be saying, "Almost you persuade me to be an Anglican." (grin)

You seem to be saying, "Almost you persuade me to be an Anglican." (grin)

You seem to be saying, "Almost you pursuade me to be an Anglican." (grin)

Chuck is a p.o.s. criminal.

Back to the prison showers chuck, I think the lads miss you.

Chuck you are correct. Today's churches are way more about entertainment than carrying out Christ's message.

Like in politics, image over substance is the order of the day.

Considering the witch burners and slave traders who populated the US the recent past, you might want to clarify which Christian traditions you hold as so thrilling and joyous. For they read the same bible that you do.

Change in religion is a constant.